Comic Book Creator #29 by TwoMorrows Publishing

™

DON McGREGOR

Man of Wakanda, Man of Mars

No. 29, Winter 2023

Killraven, Black Panther TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

A TwoMorrows Publication

Cover art by Sandy Plunkett

82658 00490

W i n t e r 2 0 2 3 • T h e D o n a l d F. M c G r e g o r I s s u e • N u m b e r 2 9

T DON McGREGOR Portrait by KEN MEYER, JR.

Ye Ed’s Rant: The passing of a Comic Book Giant and presence of a Great Talent......... 2

COMICS CHATTER

Editor’s Note: Alas, it is with sincere regret that CBC has to announce that J.D. King, masterful cartoonist of the Woody illos that have graced the above space for every issue until now, is retiring the assignment. Many thanks, buddy, for a great ride!

Up Front: Herb Trimpe Abroad. Robert Menzies chronicles the Incredible Herb’s year-long visit to the British Isles in the mid-1970s, and his work there................... 3

About Our Cover

Zine Scene: Ye Ed’s new feature on zines of note, such as American Bystander......... 17

Cover art by SANDY PLUNKETT

Another Pinch of Herb: Thermonuclear Avocado. As an added bonus, a 1976 British interview with Happy Herb Trimpe, conducted by Roger Hutchinson........... 10 Ten Questions: Darrick Patrick gets 10 big answers from Devin Kalile Grayson.......... 12 The Man Called Gold: Part two of our three-part interview with Mike Gold covers his hiring by publisher Jenette Kahn and days of DC’s Explosion/Implosion........... 18 Comics in the Library: Rich Arndt on new books in the stacks!.................................. 27

Black Panther, Killraven TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Incoming: The return of our letter column begins with a missive from Steve Rude..... 28 The Bloody Red Baron: Mike Baron gives Greg Biga the scoop on his latest gigs..... 31 Once Upon a Long Ago: E.C. Fan-Addict Thompson on how he got hooked................ 36 Hembeck’s Dateline: Fred creates a Rogue’s Gallery of Flash’s baddest bad guys..... 37 THE MAIN EVENTS

Don’t STEAL our Digital Editions! C’mon citizen, DO THE RIGHT THING! A Mom & Pop publisher like us needs every sale just to survive! DON’T DOWNLOAD OR READ ILLEGAL COPIES ONLINE! Buy affordable, legal downloads only at

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COMIC BOOK CREATOR is a proud joint production of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows

“It Ain’t Betrayal If It Isn’t a Friend”: Don McGregor has something to say............. 65 Panther’s Pride: A Ye Ed moderated panel discussion with McGregor and Rich Buckler on launching “Panther’s Rage” and maintaining a life-long friendship.................... 66 Bonus! Tom Ziuko talks about his Nathaniel Dusk coloring on Gene Colan’s pencils.... 75 BACK MATTER Creators at the Con: Kendall Whitehouse clicks pics at Fan Expo Philadelphia ’22....... 78 Coming Attractions: Toronto’s own Michael Cho is coming next ish............................. 79 A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Tom Ziuko remembers ZOT!.........................80 Right: A detail of the Gil Kane (pencils) and Frank Giacoia (inks) cover on Jungle Action #10 [July 1974]. EDITOR’S CLARIFICATION: We regret the Shawn Kerrie feature proved to be a no-go for this issue.

Comic Book Artist Vol. 1 & 2 are available as digital downloads from twomorrows.com

Black Panther TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Above: Sandy Plunkett shared this wonderful piece celebrating two of Don McGregor’s muchadmired Marvel characters, the Black Panther and Killraven, Warrior of Mars, properties he just about made his own in the 1970s! Thank you, Sandy!

Donald Francis McGregor: Under the Gun The ground-breaking writer shares an afternoon at home with Ye Ed to discuss his brilliant achievements in comics, including the “Panther’s Rage” masterwork that inspired the 2018 Marvel movie and, as a graphic novel pioneer, with Sabre, the taboo-breaking dystopian science fiction series, and so much more! .............. 38

Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly (more or less) by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 601, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $53 US, $78 International, $19 Digital. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2023 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. ISSN 2330-2437. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

This issue is dedicated to the memories of GARRY LEACH, JUSTIN GREEN, NEAL ADAMS, GEORGE PÉREZ, TIM SALE, TOM PALMER, JEAN-JACQUES SEMPÉ, PAUL COKER, JR., ™

JON B. COOKE Editor & Designer

JOHN MORROW Publisher & Consulting Editor

MICHAEL AUSHENKER Associate Editor

SANDY PLUNKETT Cover Artist

RICHARD J. ARNDT TOM ZIUKO STEVEN THOMPSON Contributing Editors

STEVE THOMPSON Transcriber

J.D. KING CBC Cartoonist Emeritus

TOM ZIUKO CBC Colorist Supreme

RONN SUTTON CBC Illustrator

KEN MEYER, JR. CBC Color Portrait Artist

ROB SMENTEK CBC Proofreader

GREG PRESTON CBC Contributing Photographer

KENDALL WHITEHOUSE MICHAEL AUSHENKER FRED HEMBECK DARRICK PATRICK STEVEN THOMPSON TOM ZIUKO CBC Columnists To contact CBC, please email jonbcooke@aol.com or snail-mail Comic Book Creator c /o Jon B. Cooke, P.O. Box 601 West Kingston, RI 02892 2

The passing of a legend and appreciating a living master

I didn’t intend to go 28 issues In the comic book realm—and for me, perwithout cover-featuring a comic sonally—we’ve suffered some terrible book writer in this here magazine, losses as of late, some about which but I’m proud that the first to be I am still processing. The passing showcased is my friend Don Mcof Neal Adams is a particularly Gregor. It’s hard to relate just how devastating blow as the brilliant, important Don’s writing was to me vivacious creator made a greater as a teenager and, truth be told, impact on my life than did any I shared his Black Panther and other comic book artist. Killraven opuses with high school Neal always seemed, well, imfriends more often than any other mortal to me as a true Comic Book comics. I felt a deep connection God, someone whose work utterly to his writing, with its underlying mesmerized me as a youngster and, empathy and genuine humanity, and its over the years, it never lost its appeal to conveyance of tolerance and grace under me. When I first met him, he was drawing the guise of super-hero and science fiction thumbnails for a Batman werewolf story, comics. and the last time we spoke was maybe So it was no surprise to discover the the most memorable. Nothing really scribe himself was a warm and engaging important took place, but Neal was human being, someone I’ve long called friend uncharacteristically mellow. Totally (and, besides the wonderful Linda Fite, Don is chill. It was at Terrificon 2019, a the only comic book professional who has few months before Covid-19 hit, actually visited my home). We also connect and I approached Neal’s booth to on a mundane level as Rhode Island-grown chat and introduce my wife, Beth, creative types who are, shall we say, two to the artist and his lovely spouse, feisty, vertically challenged, talkative Marilyn. For a few minutes, it and verbose friends of Jim Warren! was just the four of us there and Thus, I’m glad to spend hours chatting Neal engaged Beth mostly, asking with Donald Francis McGregor, and about her job—for some unknown delighted to find a way to express my reason, he once thought my wife appreciation and deep affection for was a lawyer—and asked about her Don McGregor by Ronn Sutton my buddy. impression of the convention as a On the creative front, I just finished my book-of-thenon-fan. It was a tender moment and Neal was at his year, The Charlton Companion, which slowed my CBC kindest in my experience, and we’ll never forget that, output quite a bit, but I do hope you consider purchasBeth and I. ing the retrospective, as I look at it as a 272-page Don’t get me wrong: Neal’s acts of kindness are throwback to the themed issues of Comic Book Artist! the stuff of legend and, for me, his generosity has It’s pretty darned comprehensive and most definitely a been life-changing. Neal contributed cover art for my definitive look at the Derby, Connecticut-based comics first and third issues of Comic Book Artist Vol. 1; was publisher. I also guarantee the tome is far more interpenciler of CBA V2 #1’s cover; and artist of the Comic Book Creator #3 and #10 covers. He also kindly support- esting than you might suspect, with plenty of behindthe-scenes stories well beyond what can be learned ed my brother Andy and I by contributing the cover art from the Charlton issues of CBA. for our one-shot comic book, Prime8: Creation [2001]. I’ll be toiling on the TwoMorrows reservation for a And, of course, he consented to the many interviews I conducted with him, often at Continuity Studios. Plus he spell to working my design and production magic on a bunch of new books by my peers to keep revenue had daughter Kris hire me a few years in the latter ’10s flowing during my wife’s entering retirement, but then to work the booth at Rhode Island Comic-Con, which it’s back to a few new tomes. Future projects include were both fun and rewarding shows. I haven’t formulated how I will respond to his death Mind Candy for the Masses, my history of Last Gasp of San Francisco, originally planned as a 50-year celebrain the pages of CBC. Like I said, I’m still processing the tion but, well, Covid-19 got in the way. Then, with Jean passing. He was a strong, virile guy, a father-figure Depelley, I’m writing a history of the 1970s/80s adult to me and to many others, definitely a leader, helpful, illustrated fantasy magazines (Metal Hurlant, Heavy challenging, intimidating, and enormously giving. Metal, Epic, etc.). Thanks for stopping by! Godspeed.

cbc contributors Mike Baron Greg Biga Rich Buckler Andrew D. Cooke

Linda Fite Cliff Galbraith Mike Gold Devin Grayson

Bill Johnson Marvel Comics Don McGregor Robert Menzies

Ken Meyer, Jr. Dean Mullaney Sandy Plunkett Linda Reinhold

— Ye Crusading Editor jonbcooke@aol.com Steve Rude Cory Sedlmeier Ron Sutton Alexander Trimpe

Sarah Trimpe John Workman Rob Yeremian Tom Ziuko

#29 • Winter 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

CBC Convention Photographer

Immortal & Eternal

DIANE NOOMIN, DREW FORD, KIM JUNG GI, BILL WORKMAN, and my much-missed comrade in comics history, R.C. HARVEY

up front

Herb Trimpe Abroad Remembering the Incredible One’s year-long visit to the British Isles in the ’70s by ROBERT MENZIES

Captain Britain TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

[As hard as it is to believe, Herbert William Trimpe, Jr., has been gone for nearly eight years now, but in certain ways his spirit is alive and well, at least in these pages. Yours truly was pals with Herb—and still is with first wife Linda Fite—a friendship with both going back to the early days of Comic Book Artist. So we’re proud to share—albeit from a Brit’s point of view—a look at the late artist’s extended stay in the U.K. in the mid-1970s, with appreciation to two once Marvel-affiliated Lindas, Fite and Lessmann!— Ye Ed.] We probably know the exact moment when Herb Trimpe realized that he occupied a special place in the heart of British True Believers. He was attending his own one-man panel at London Super Comic Convention 2013 and, as the artist gazed out at the legions of fans before him, a clearly moved Herb commented—seemingly as much to himself as those in attendance—that it was the biggest crowd that had ever come to see him at a convention. What many fans there may not have known is that Herb was the only U.S.-born Marvel creator to live in Britain during the Silver Age. Even those aware of this fact had little idea about where and when he was living in England as his autobiographical comments were generally rather sketchy. The most precise description came in the essay “To Create an Icon,” Herb’s introduction to Captain Britain: The Birth of a Legend [2006]: “I have lived in England for extended periods of time, including one year in Cornwall in the 1970s.” Other interviews and contemporary statements in the British titles gave the impression that the Trimpes resided in England for only a couple of months, so this period in his career has always been something of a mystery. Luckily, thanks to the kind help of Herb’s son, Alexander, I was able to communicate with Linda Fite, Herb’s then-wife and mother of Alex and two of his sisters, Amelia and Sarah. Over and above her sense of playfulness and endless patience, Linda was a goldmine of information and, for the first time, we can fill in the blanks on this part of Herb’s life. “I can verify that, yes, we lived in Cornwall for a year— from March 1975–March 1976,” Fite said. The departure time, if not duration, is supported by a letters page comment in Super Spider-Man with the Super-Heroes #164 [Apr. 3, 1976], which stated, “Herb recently went back to New York after spending several months in Cornwall.” Fite continued, “We had visited Cornwall in the autumn of 1973, stayed for six weeks in Golant, near Fowey, because my old university chum, Shelley Turner, was living there with her boyfriend at the time… Anyway, we made some good pals in that community, so… when Alex was born [in 1974] and we outgrew our one-bedroom flat in New York City and couldn’t find a two-bedroom place in Manhattan that we liked/could afford, so we said, ‘Let’s try living in the country.’ Then I said, ‘Hell, why not try living in the country in another country?’ So, because we had the Cornish connection, that’s where we went. Those two times were when we were in the U.K. for the longest periods, six weeks and one year. “We visited England before those two times as tourists and after to attend a wedding and take Alex to unsuccessfully seek the Loch Ness monster.” (In a follow-up, Linda COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2023 • #29

added that this latter trip to Scotland happened in ’81 or ’82.) Fite added, “While we were living in [the village of] St. Mabyn for that year, we had visits from Barry WindsorSmith and his then-girlfriend, Linda Lessmann, and from Flo Steinberg and Chris Claremont (not all at the same time, of course!). “What is mind-blowing in retrospect is that Herb was penciling (and sometimes also inking) books in a cob cottage in Cornwall and using the Royal Post to mail the pages to Manhattan! Good thing the man had such an excellent work ethic.” Colorist Linda Lessmann Reinhold, now married to veteran DC and Marvel artist Bill Reinhold, met Herb in August 1972, when she began working at Marvel. Among the many jobs she completed was coloring Herb’s art on The Incredible Hulk #177–178 [July–Aug. 1974]. Before the Trimpes crossed the Atlantic, Lessmann had visited their mid-town Manhattan apartment—a mere three blocks from her flat—and she enthusiastically accepted their invitation to visit Cornwall in October 1975. Travelling with her then-partner Barry WindsorSmith, Linda stayed for ten days. She told Jon B. Cooke (in an email she kindly shares here) about “one of the most memorable trips of my life.” She continued, “The tiny town [of St. Maybn] was picturesque and charming, as was the stone cottage where they lived. It was situated next to a very old

Above: Herb Trimpe at his drawing table in the 1970s Marvel Comics bullpen.

Left: A detail of penciler Herb’s Captain Britain #1 [Oct. 13, 1976] back cover pin-up. Inks by Fred Kida. 3

darrick patrick’s ten questions

Devin Kalile Grayson The first woman to create, launch, and helm an ongoing Batman title talks with Darrick by DARRICK PATRICK [Professional writer Devin Grayson took on our “10 Questions” assignment as has no other CBC contributor, sharing with us a fully-rounded, candid, and thoughtful portrait that leaves us breathless…and grateful! As you’ll learn, she’s been writing in the industry for over two decades, notably on Batman: Gotham Knights, The Titans, Black Widow, Nightwing, X-Men: Evolution, and many others. Nominated for the Comic Buyer’s Guide Award for “Favorite Writer” in 1999 and 2000, she also was nominated for a 2001 GLAAD Media Award for “Outstanding Comic Book” for her Vertigo series User. She’s also a novelist (Doctor Fate: The Fate of Dreams). Her most recent project is Rewild, an original graphic novel published by Berger Books/Dark Horse.—Ye Ed.]

Darrick Patrick: What was the journey that led you to working professionally within comic books? Devin Grayson: I guess it was mostly that I fell in love with a guy in a cape. As I’ve mentioned in other interviews, I didn’t grow up reading comic books. They just weren’t on the radar of anyone in my family and I was about as unaware of them as you can be. I knew about comic strips in the paper and that was about it. I was enamored with the idea of exploring human complexity through fiction from an early age, though, and wanted to be an actress. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area with access to lots of exciting theater programs for kids, including a Performing Arts high school in the city (shout-out to my SF SOTA alum!), and I was committed to finding a way to make a living performing on stage. I didn’t consciously change my mind about that until I was in college. At the time, I think I felt both that I was too introverted for a life in the theater arts and that it might be more interesting to create the dialog of fictional characters rather than deliver it. But looking back, I suspect another piece of it was that I had been diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes at the age of 14. I wonder now if diabetes might have shaken my confidence in my ability to use my body as a conduit for sharing the stories of fictional characters. I began to turn inward and spend more time writing, which is something I’d been

Photo © the respective copyright holder. Rewild TM & © Devin Grayson and Yana Adamovic.

Above: Devin Grayson. Inset right: Devin’ and Yana Adamovic’s recent original graphic novel, Rewild, a “magical realist” tale, published by Berger Books. Below: Dixie, an Early Alert Canine at an important nonprofit where Devin volunteers. Please visit EarlyAlert-Canine.org for details.

doing since I learned to hold a pencil. I later learned that the presence of some kind of childhood illness, or physical challenge, shows up in a great many comic industry veteran origin stories. Maybe the final prod in the direction of writing rather than acting for a living came via positive reinforcement. I was in some kind of social studies class during my freshman year of college and we were given an assignment to write about someone who had profoundly affected our life. And I really don’t remember why I did this—I spent most of college as a very serious student; it was highly out of character for me to screw around with an assignment like this— but, for some reason—probably because I was obsessing over a story—I used a completely fictional character for my essay. I ended up having to read it aloud to the class, who ended up—much to my genuine surprise—being strongly moved by it. That’s a drug. Being able to get a reaction out of people like that. I imagine any hesitation I had about being a professional fiction writer evaporating at that moment. That happened at a community college, and by the following semester, I was matriculating to Bard in upstate New York to study creative writing with Mona Simpson. Still no comics, though. They didn’t become part of my world until a year or two after graduation. I was back in California, living in a studio apartment in San Francisco with my girlfriend at the time and working in the research division of a large HMO when

#29 • Winter 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Nightwing TM & © DC Comics. Rewild TM & © Devin Grayson and Yana Adamovic.

I happened to channel surf past an episode of Batman: The Animated Series. I was not someone who watched a lot of animation and I’m not really sure why it grabbed my attention as strongly as it did except for the obvious: it was brilliant. And different. And new. Everything about it, from the way it looked to the kind of stories they were telling, spoke to me, and almost immediately I zeroed in on the relationship between Batman and Robin. It occurred to me that Batman had sort of de facto raised Robin, and that presented some kind of fictional knot in my head that I absolutely had to untie. I was instantly hooked. And from there it just became a matter of tracking the characters down to their medium of origin, which is what finally brought me to a comic store. The next step in my becoming-a-professional-in-thecomics-industry story was cold-calling DC Comics. I asked for “the guy in charge of Batman,” and they put me through—no questions asked—to Denny O’Neil. Fortunately, at the time I didn’t know enough about the history of the industry to understand how legendary he was. If I had, I suspect it would have been a lot more difficult to talk to him. But as it was, we had a really lovely first conversation that boiled down to me introducing myself as an aspiring writer who knew very little about comics and was interested in learning more. I asked if there were any books he could recommend, or courses I should look into taking, to prepare me to script comics. He was quiet for a moment and then he laughed and told me that he got hundreds of calls a day from people who had read every comic ever written and wanted him to teach them how to write, which he wasn’t sure that he could do, but that if I really could already write, teaching me more about comics should absolutely be possible. He passed me on to his editorial team: Scott Peterson, Darren Vincenzo, and Jordan Gorfinkel—and they sent me great suggestions, like Scott McCloud’s brilliant Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art (a book I buy about five copies of a year just to hand out to people asking

COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2023 • #29

questions like the ones I was asking back then), and Robert McKee’s story structure seminar, Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns, everything Alan Moore ever wrote… you know, essentials. I read all of those books and took that class and sent them samples of my writing (which infamously included fanfic) and a few months down the road they gave me the chance to write a short story for the anthology series The Batman Chronicles. Then there was a Batman Plus Arsenal standalone and another story for Chronicles and a Nightwing Annual, and by then I’d saved up enough to visit them in New York. Denny eventually offered me the Catwoman monthly and I perhaps unwisely quit my day job and moved to NYC to become a full-time comics writer. Since my goal was so singular, though— to write Batman and Nightwing, which, through a combination of hard work and incredible good fortune I got to do pretty much immediately—it actually took me quite a long time to realize that I was not just “writing Batman,” but was actually making a career in an industry I still didn’t know a lot about. For the first 10 or so years of my professional life, all my projects were assigned to me. The people I was working with understood that I didn’t have a deep history with comic books and so wasn’t walking around dying to write X or Y character outside of Gotham, so they just kept suggesting things. That’s how I ended up doing self-generated stories like Relative Heroes in the DCU and User over at Vertigo, as well as projects like The Titans and, over at Marvel Knights, Black Widow. Stelfreeze approached me

Above: Detail from Nightwing #78 [Apr. 2003]. Art by Rick Leonardi and Jesse Delperdang. Below: Panoramic panel from the graphic novel, Rewild. Art by Yana Adamovic.

the man called gold

Gold’s Opportunities Mike Gold discusses his first stint as DC Comics flack and the Implosion of 1978! Interview conducted by JON B. COOKE [When last we spoke to Mike Gold, founder of First Comics and creative marketing whiz at DC Comics, the Chicago native shared about his Windy City upbringing, media coordination for the Chicago Seven, and leadership of the National Runaway Switchboard. Here, in the second of our three-part conversation, Mike discusses his first stint at DC. (Note this talk took place during the Covid lockdown and prior to the passing of Neal Adams.)—Ye Ed.]

Above: A button for those who supported the Chicago Seven defendants during their trial in 1969–70. Mike Gold served as their public relations rep and was liaison for the underground benefit comic. Below: Chicago Comicon souvenir booklets for their 1976 and ’77. Mike moderated a panel discussion with Marvel boss Stan Lee and DC publisher Jenette Kahn at the ’77 show, seen at bottom.

#29 • Winter 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Comic Book Creator: So, where were we? I guess we’re roughly at 1970. Let’s go on from there. What were your prospects? What were you doing? Mike Gold: After the Chicago Seven trial, I got into one of those Volkswagen Beetles, with a friend of mine, and we drove to the coast. He was moving to the Berkeley area, and we drove down as much of the old Route 66 that was still around—much more then than there is now—and he dropped me off in Los Angeles and he went off to the Bay area. (About two years later, he went underground for putting bombs in safe deposit boxes in three different cities to protest the war, and then he told everybody where the bombs were… so I kind of missed the point on that one.) He was a good friend, and he was the guy we used to call Abbie Hoffman’s “Jewish mother,” and it was he who told me that, under no circumstances, was I to give Abbie Hoffman back the $1,000 he gave us to launch the Conspiracy Capers comic book. So this guy, Ron Kaufman, was brilliant and he also had a PhD in psychology. Good guy. After that, I came

back and we did a little thing for a couple of months called the Committee to Defend the Black Panthers. This was in the wake of Fred Hampton’s murder [Dec. 4, 1969], and there was just a lot of stuff that had to be done. We held a couple of rallies, raising money over his death. It was amazing. It’s over 50 years now and it still gets me. I was in Fred’s apartment after they killed him—much later on that same day—because the Panthers had opened the apartment for people to see just where the gunshots went. They went all in one direction, toward the bed, which still was bloodied. And there were no bullet holes in the opposite direction, even though the cops, of course, said they were returning fire. Some bullets then, huh? So we did that and I continued to work for The Seed and I was continuing to broadcast on a number of radio stations at the time. Late in 1970, I think we started the biggest of them, which was on WEAW, where I got to work with my friend, righteous Robert Rudnick, who was pretty much from out of Detroit and New Jersey, and invented what we called underground radio. I also worked with Eliot Wald, who started out at The Seed and moved on to be writer (and ultimately, for a season, co-head writer) of Saturday Night Live. Good guy. And I got to hang out with some really good people. I did that for a few years. It was around ’71 when I worked for a drug abuse prevention program—and I emphasize the word “abuse” to make the distinction between people who were just sitting around smoking weed, not hurting anybody, and people who are hurting themselves or others. I did a lot of work there. We established a radio show for the kids who were in the program. I taught them how to do radio and brokered some time on a wonderful radio station and did a show for like four times a week, which is pretty cool. That’s what got me into the social services field. During that time, Byron Preiss and Jim Steranko did this drug abuse comic book story, “The Block,” and I asked Byron if he could send me some copies to use in the program. So he did and I don’t know if we helped any kids in terms of any drug situation, but I know that we turned a few people into comics fans. So, you know, I felt fulfilled. And, from there, I guess around ’73 (the years are a little misty right now), I was brought into an organization called Metro-Help, Inc. to help found the National Runaway Switchboard, which was an 800 number (that’s still around today) for kids to connect up with local services, and that sort of thing— get emergency shelter or medical attention or what have you. And I helped train some staff and I wrote the funding proposals, and helped plan out program itself to others. Very proud of that program. We helped a lot of kids and they still are helping to this day. So that’s that was it. Get a program like this funded and going for almost 50 years. Now, because of the National Runaway Switchboard— this is what is called “continuity”—there was a magazine that was published by Xerox called Smash. And one of their editors called me for an interview, and I worked with her for days, maybe weeks, on a story about runaways and sexual molestation issues that nobody was talking about in the mid-’70s… familial issues, abuse issues… and we got a lot of press on that. And this woman and I got along really well and she told that to her publisher. And her publisher was so, I guess, impressed that she, the publisher, called me to

thank me for the interview. And we got into a conversation and the conversation lasted for hours. That woman was Jenette Kahn. So, about six months or so after that, Jenette became publisher of DC Comics, so I called her up, and said, “Congratulations. You know, I’m a big comics fan.” She said, “So am I.” And we talked about all of that. And we had many, many subsequent conversations. At one point, she says, “Would you like to fly out to New York? We’ll show you around DC and we’ll have lunch, and I’d like to hook you up with Neal Adams. He’s looking for a guy to help him run Continuity Associates.” Well, I had met Neal and worked a little bit with him back in the Organic Theater days, with Stuart Gordon, when Neal was about to do some work on the Broadway version of the Warp plays. (See how all of this is linked, Jon? It’s amazing!) I like Neal and loved his work (and I still do and still like him), but I really wasn’t interested in working for him. It just didn’t quite click for me. But I went out there anyway, because I’m a fanboy and I was given a tour by the publisher of DC Comics! That’s pretty cool! Jenette and I went to a restaurant—a very good businessman/ritzy restaurant—and she and I talked passionately, and I mean passionately, about comics for three hours. This was, like, 1976, when people were not really talking about comic books in public (because otherwise you were a degenerate). Well, for three hours, there’s all these other businessmen around and you can see that they couldn’t believe their ears that we were talking so passionately about what was right and wrong about the comic book industry, where we thought it was headed, and where it should be headed, and what we could do about that. So, you know, we had a great fanboy conversation. And I flew back to Chicago, thinking, “Well, I had a nice lunch.” I had invited Jenette to that first Chicago ComiCon, because I was on the committee, to be one of our guests of honor, along with Harvey Kurtzman and Stan Lee. So we had both publishers of DC and Marvel there, which was seriously cool. So she took us up on that and that was the one that was held at the Playboy hotel. The day after I came back, she calls me up and says, “You know, I’ve been thinking about our conversation.” I say, “Yeah.” She said, “I don’t want you to work for Neal,” and I’m trying to figure out the polite way of saying, “Well, that’s cool and I really didn’t want to either,” and she says, “No, I’d like to have you come and work for me.” And I stopped and had one of those “Wait—what?” moments, and said, “What are you talking about?” And we talked about the whole idea of setting up essentially a marketing and public relations department, that sort

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of thing, focusing on the direct sales market, which, by then, was an important force, but not a vital force. Meanwhile, the newsstands were coughing up blood like no one’s business, so they had to do something. And given my role with the Chicago Con, and also with consulting for a number of Chicago area retailers and a few others outside of the area, they thought I would be a good hire. That changed everything. At that moment in my life, I was at, as they say, between radio stations. I just left one station because they changed format, and I could see the handwriting on the wall. The type of freedom that I had enjoyed on the air for the previous seven or eight years, I wasn’t going to get anywhere else. Those days had passed. So, I took the offer seriously and we talked about the job and I wound up taking it. I moved out to New York for a couple of years and became DC’s public relations and marketing guy, and we started developing the first tools to promote our books to professional retailers, as nobody had done catalogs or newsletters before and we also started to advertise in places like the old Comics Buyer’s Guide… even Rolling Stone… we did paid advertisements promoting the Superman/Muhammad Ali book. I remember calling up Alan Light, publisher of The Buyer’s Guide for Comic Fandom, and asked, “Listen, Alan, do you take paid ads from publishers?” He answered, “Nobody has every asked me that question before!” I said, “Well, do you want to start?” He said, “Yeah! You bet!” That was a big deal back in 1976–78. So, I went back to Chicago and executed some of those ideas, but not many, and I did other things. I went back to my role at the National Runaway Switchboard, but as a consultant this time, and that was wonderful. CBC: So did you have a contract at DC with Jenette? Mike: No, I had a verbal one but I don’t recall having a written one. CBC: And what was the what was the verbal contract? Was it for? Was it for length of time?

Above: Mike Gold in his first year on his DC Comics gig. From The Buyer’s Guide for Comic Fandom #199 [Sept. 9, ’77]. Bottom left: Mike was interviewed for the third issue of Jenette Kahn’s Smash magazine [1975]. This led to a deep connection with Kahn, who remembered the Chicago native when she ascended into the publisher position at DC. Below: Warp! flyers with artwork decidedly not rendered by Neal Adams. Mike helped to promote the Organic Theater production.

An Afternoon with Comic Books’ Warrior of Words

Of course, many concepts and characters in Don’s storyline, “Panther’s Rage,” were prominently used in the $1.3 billion blockbuster, Black Panther, as much a cultural phenomenon in 2018 as it was a super-hero movie. I’d hardly be surprised if his Killraven or Sabre sagas became equally successful when their motion pictures are finally made. On a personal note, I confess that I have great affection for Don and rank him among my favorite people. He is authentic, honest, sensitive, kind, and, best of all, an engaging and tremendously talented storyteller. This feature is long in coming, one that I promised Don years ago that we’d do together. So, after delays due to respective struggles with Covid-19 (both of our households are now fine), I traveled to Don’s small, unassuming abode, only 20 miles away, and we started chatting on his back porch.—JBC #29 • Winter 2023 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Frank Plowright was correct to say that Donald Francis McGregor’s 1970s work deserved credit for the writer’s attempt to “inject a poetry into Marvel material…” And so too did Don imbue his characters and his stories with a depth of humanity not often encountered in comic books of that era, tales that also showcased the scribe’s rarefied courage to challenge social norms. While common today, it was unprecedented for a mainstream writer of that time to include gay characters (in love, no less!), interracial romance, and even an all-Black cast in any American comic book. Before there was Alan Moore and prior to Neil Gaiman, there was Don McGregor (and, truth be told, there’s another writer often mentioned in the same breath, the late Steve Gerber).

Interview conducted by Jon B. Cooke • Transcribed by Tom Pairan Comic Book Creator: What a prestigious appearance for your stories to come out along with Steve Ditko’s Spider-Man and Jack Kirby’s Captain America, there’s Don McGregor’s Black Panther! Don McGregor: You know the fact that Penguin Random House put that in with the top three classic Marvel Comics series… If you had told any of the people in editorial between 1973 and ’76, they would have gone, “Are you out of your f*cking minds?! Wha— ? This is terrible! We hate this stuff!” Because there really were about three people in the business at the time that I can tell you liked those books. And that was Jim Salicrup, Dave Kraft, and John David Warner. They’re the only three that I can think of who actually were like, “Man, I love what you’re doing. I don’t know where it’s going. Every time I read a new book, it means something.” And they would actually have a passion or enthusiasm. One of the neat things is the fact that I managed to live long enough for these books to get rediscovered. And let’s face it, Jon, they’re 40 years old! They could have been negatively received… And I was very fortunate that so many people who obviously were not even aware these books existed for four decades, are now are experiencing them… Probably they weren’t regular comic readers and didn’t realize this kind of material could exist in a super-hero comic, and have reacted so positively to it. So, for all of the endurance it took to do a “Panther’s Rage,” because that was two-and-a-half years of intensely creating it from my initial ideas into finished reality. Think of it this way, Jon, as if you’re running a race, a marathon, and the finish line is an impossibly long ways away, and all that time you’re running, you have to keep blinders on so the finish line stays in focus, that your original intent on why you undertook to write this is not lost. It was a constant commitment not to be side-tracked from the reasons I saw in my head when I started it. Not letting voices positive or negative blur COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2023 • #29

what I hoped I could achieve when the last words written at the finish line. There’s a sense that you get to the other side and the books are being very positively reviewed and certainly remembered by the fans. I don’t want to disregard in that time frame the people who were reading the books. Thank God they were there, Jon, because it was a very stand-alone position to be in, and there was a lot of negative reaction to it, especially with the race stuff. And even now, if I’m doing interviews with somebody like you, it’s kind of what to leave in and what to leave out… Because most people don’t want to be tainted with where they were at in 1973 to 1976. On the other hand, it’s history. And because I was right in the midst of that writing about race and gender issues, that means they are certainly part of my personal concerns. And there are things I had to contend with. This country often doesn’t like to face racism, or those people who were/are racist, but listen, there’s… The way you can define pop culture in any particular point in time is not so much what’s in pop culture, but was isn’t, what you don’t see. Because that’s the stuff they don’t want to handle… Most of the time, in my experience, it’s not said out loud: “You can’t do this, you can’t do that,” but it’s still understood. You don’t see it there beforehand. I even understand where editorial often comes off. It’s like, “Well, why should we go into this area or that controversy.? It might cause complications for me.” I think, especially in that time frame, you had a lot of editors who were also writers and wanted to make their own impact in print… If there’s going to be a mark on the comics history, they wanted to make it. There was nothing in it for them to give that chance to you. Then it made it like you’re—and it should be as a writer—you’re standing alone, doing the best books you can do. That’s what I owe you, that’s what I owe the readers… and a writer owes it to them every time out. That doesn’t mean you always succeed, but… 39

Above: Penguin Books launched its Penguin Classics Marvel Collection with three compilations that included Black Panther, a testament to the groundbreaking work of Don McGregor. Previous spread: At top is Don posing for a Dragonflame promo ad, pastiching a classic National Lampoon cover. Below: Penguin Random House simultaneously released an elegant hardcover edition (with gold gilded page edges) and a trade paperback version of the Marvel books, as well.

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Don: I just put a bunch of stuff up online about Gene Colan, commemorating the loss. You know, I got really, really fortunate, Jon, to work with a lot of really terrific people. Rich Buckler cannot be understated in terms of what he got that I was able to do as a writer. Because Rich endorsed it and embraced it. Marvel editorial did not want Rich on “The Black Panther,” which just wasn’t an important enough character at that time for an artist of his caliber. And if you think I’m just saying that, he was appearing in Jungle Action! We had 13 pages an issue! So, understand as a storyteller, I was told, “You’re going to have 13 pages, every two months, to do a story about the Black Panther set in Wakanda.” That’s it! So, there were so many things to think about while I read all the books T’Challa appeared in because, in those days, you could read every single Black Panther appearance that there was. And I realized almost immediately that it was going to have to be a novel. Not because I was trying to break ground with it… I know some people say that it is Marvel’s first graphic novel. Maybe it is. People like yourself would probably know better than me. The purpose of it was, I thought, “Well, I’ve got 13 pages and if every 13 pages for two months, I gotta invent a new villain.” I thought, “Well, after about three issues, people are going to go, ‘Well, T’Challa, you should have stayed back in America teaching school in Harlem.’” How dumb was that? So I thought, “It’s gotta be connected. If it’s not connected, it’s not gonna work.” And that’s when I started working on the themes of what the book would be about, but I also realized that you’re going to be off the stands for two months. So, as I was developing the characters, I realized if you wrote a character out for one issue, that’s four months that the readers don’t see that character. Write them out for two issues, that’s half-a-year. It’s too long of a time, Jon, to ask the audience to get emotionally invested in these characters. So I was very conscious at the time, thinking, “This needs to be here.” I remember when Craig [Russell] first took over doing “Killraven”… “Killraven” was another where you had a multiple cast of characters, and I said to Craig, “Every character has to have a moment because, if you don’t…” In the first issue Craig drew, I needed to have Old Skull in there and I actually drew my Old Skull and I think Jack Abel inked it… But I needed to have this character in there, because I realized I wanted readers to be invested in that character and I CBC: That was one of the most appealing aspects of it. couldn’t have him offstage for that long of time. So that was Getting your stories (chapters, really) issue by issue—you part of the consideration, but I did have to promise Craig— know, getting them bi-monthly—and recognizing the effort when Craig realized I would kill characters—he said, “You you put into it… The only comparable writer at the time who gotta promise me you won’t kill Old Skull.” And I said, “I was doing anything akin to that was Steve Gerber… don’t have any plans to do so right now, Craig.” Don: Yeah. CBC: What was it, three years you were working on CBC: Steve Gerber was really pouring into the work some- “Panther’s Rage”? thing that was… I mean, maybe I think that was why your Don: “Panther’s Rage” ran for two-and-a-half years. work appealed to me so much, and you personally appeal to CBC: Forty-four years later, those stories changed Amerime so much: it’s that you’re an artist. You’re not necessarily can culture, Don… I gotta know: what was the experience an editorial-type person. of first seeing the movie? How were you treated at the Don: I’m not. premiere? Was your work up there on screen? CBC: You’re not, “You should be drawing in a certain Don: They sent us to the premiere. Listen, I developed Raway.” You’re more connected to Rich Buckler and to Billy monda [played by Angela Bassett], she’s my character, and Graham… in spirit and creativity…than most writers and she’s obviously going to be prominent in the new film [Black their assigned artists. Panther: Wakanda Forever, the world premiere of which Don has been invited to attend after we go to press]. It was a great time! Going to the film, to the premiere, and being there… I was sitting with Christopher Priest, whom I had never met until that time. Well, truthfully, I gotta tell you this story, because the storyteller in you would love this story: As you know, I have a heart condition—and whether it was because I was just doing so much stuff that day, more than I would obviously be doing in a typical day… This thing with T’Challa, going into the astral plane and you know he’s dying and everything… I start getting really severe chest pains and I’m bent over… I’m trying to lean into it and I don’t want to be obvious, because I’m surrounded by com-

ics people, and I’m thinking, “This is a scene where they are talking to T’Challa from the other world… This is going to be something if I die here!” I can see the headline: “Comic Book Legend Dies During His Character’s Death Scene.” [laughter] People would start to talk, “Did you hear about Don McGregor? Did McGregor really die when he was watching the Black Panther die in the movie?” [laughter] It eventually passed and I was okay. CBC: Thank heavens! Don: And, at the end of it, Christopher Priest said to me, “You know Don, that’s your Black Panther. You belong down there [sitting with the film’s stars and director]. You don’t belong up here with us peons. You belong down there.” I said, “You don’t understand, Christopher. I’d rather be up here with you guys.” But the fact that a man of Christopher Priest’s talents and such would feel that way… That’s one of the things that stays the most with me. That was a great moment. Those are the kind of things I think as a storyteller to have another really good storyteller tell you that. You know, the fact that Dwayne McDuffie… Dwayne McDuffie writing… [pauses] I don’t know if you’ve read his “Panther’s Rage” essay [“Our Heroes: African-American Artists and Images in the American Comic Book,” Black Ink: African American Cartoonists Showcase, 1992, exhibit catalog, published by the Cartoon Art Museum of San Francisco], but the first time I’ve ever read it… He wrote a shorter version of it… When I was doing the [Marvel Masterworks: The Black Panther Vol. 1, 2010], I asked if that it would be possible to use it in the Masterworks. Dwayne said, “Yeah, but I gotta rewrite it.” And I said, “No, it’s fine.” And he said, “No, I wrote about other writers…” And I said, “Dwayne, it’s fine the way it is.” “I’ll let you do it, Don, but you gotta let me rewrite it.” So I had not read what he wrote until the book came out. And the book came out the day my daughter, Lauren, was coming into Penn Station with her family. So normally I wouldn’t be going into Manhattan, but I stopped by the comic book store on 40th Street. And the book is in, but it’s wrapped in plastic. It’s all encased. So I was the author, but I have to buy my own book! And I’m walking down toward Penn Station reading Dwayne McDuffie’s afterword and I started to cry, because Dwayne was so special to me. [long pause] Those stories meant so much to him and to his life… That was important to me… I felt like I had a positive impact for some people. As a storyteller, I think that’s part of what you hope you can achieve, but it’s in the hands of the gods until it gets out there and to the individual people who are going to respond. CBC: I just think it was integral to my development in my teen years, really that you infused stories with a humanity not found in many comics. As you say, you were working long form, so there was serious story development, even if the chapters were short. As I’ve told you repeatedly, Don, I had a pile of well-read Jungle Action issues (still do!) and I would loan them out to classmates: “Please, just read them! Read them!” Taking them all in in one fell swoop, it’s a heck of an experience… You gotta stay up all night to read them, of course. To have the revelation that, in my hobby, in my obsession, in my world of comics, there was somebody like this who felt like me… You’re a remarkably perceptive writer able to convey tenderness, nuances of emotion, of love, and quiet moments, as well as rage and vengeance… It transcended genre. (I’m going on too long here…) Don: Part of it was, Jon, when I got to New York, working on staff at Marvel—and this is naivete on my part—I really believed that the Marvel Bullpen would be like it was in the Marvel Bullpen Bulletin pages. And, you know, often times it was just like so many other places…. There were power plays like in any office environment. You could be stabbed in the back if you weren’t there to protect yourself. Especially if it was going to achieve someone getting one place to another higher position. A lot of writers saying, “I am trying to get a book with better sales,” or, if a book was dropping COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2023 • #29

in sales, getting off that book… I wouldn’t even know what the sales figures were, Jon. The only thing I am interested in is one thing: what is the next line? What is the next panel? What is the next page? What is the next book? You have to maintain that vision, that energy, that passion for it—like with the “Panther’s Rage,” that’s two-and-a-half years—and it doesn’t matter whether it’s accepted, hated, whatever, that you’re going to keep those blinders on until you get to the end, and maybe it’s somewhere close to what you hoped it would be in your head when you were trying to put it together. CBC: What was the difference between doing that and novels? You had written novels before, right? What’s the difference? Is there any? Don: Novels are easier. Screenplays are easier. I’ve done them both, and I’ve got to write and direct a film. And I had total say on whatever I wanted to do! How many people get to do that, Jon? Seriously. But they’re easier. But the reaction is from the outside world—back in those earlier days—it’s changed now with super-hero movies and comic book movies becoming so big in the pop culture, but if you go back to the ’70s, ’80s, ’90s, before all this becomes big business, comics are thought of second rate by a lot of people. And certainly even by writers in the business. One thing I can tell you, Jon, and touching on something you said earlier, is comics were never second rate to me. I always thought they were a great medium. I loved it. And

Above: Cover of the trade paperback edition of the Black Panther Penguin Classics Marvel Collection. Below: Late actor Chadwick Boseman, who expertly personified T’Challa of Wakanda, seen here reading the Jungle Action issues by Don McGregor, much of which influenced the 2018 hit film.