Comic Book Creator #25 by TwoMorrows Publishing

™

No. 25, Spring 2021

82658 00427

A TwoMorrows Publication

Cover art by Barry Windsor-Smith

S p r i n g 2 0 2 1 • T h e B a rry Wi n d s o r-S m i th I s s u e • N u m b e r 2 5

About Our Cover Art by BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH

Ye Ed’s Rant: Last year’s ass-whoopin’ comes home and gets personal......................... 2 COMICS CHATTER Up Front: Sal Quartuccio’s Hot Stuf’: The pro-zine publisher and portfolio maven shares about the 1970s’ comics scene and breaking in as an independent ............. 3 Rapping with Rick Leonardi: Robert Menzies talks with the veteran artist about Spider-Man: 2099 and his connection with a Scot named Hamish MacInnes......... 18 Comics in the Library: Rich Arndt on new books about seafarers and warriors......... 25 Sitdown With Shaw!: Part two of our ginormous chat with cartoonist Scott Shaw! about Captain Carrot, his animation and advertising work, and so much more.......... 26

Monsters TM & © Barry Windsor-Smith

Ten Questions: Darrick Patrick chews the fat with Chew artist Rob Guillory............... 36 Hembeck’s Dateline: Our Star Fred shows there’s more Stars in Comics, Horatio...... 37 Once Upon a Long Ago: Our newest columnist,“Booksteve,” on his Secret Origin.... 38 THE MAIN EVENT

Our cover boasts a close-up look at a page from Barry WindsorSmith’s long-awaited graphic novel, Monsters, shot from the original art. The 370-page book, 35 years in the making, was released by Fantagraphics this past April, earning rave reviews.

Don’t STEAL our Digital Editions! C’mon citizen, DO THE RIGHT THING! A Mom & Pop publisher like us needs every sale just to survive! DON’T DOWNLOAD OR READ ILLEGAL COPIES ONLINE! Buy affordable, legal downloads only at

www.twomorrows.com

Making Monsters: An Close Look at Barry Windsor-Smith’s New Masterwork CBC’s exclusive, thorough, and intimate examination of the Storyteller’s mammoth new graphic novel includes a rare one-on-one interview with the veteran artist/ writer, a revealing and sensitive review by graphic novel expert Paul Gravett, as well as an exhaustive and extensive essay by Ye Ed on the book’s 35-year journey. Monsters’ sojourn started as a one-off issue of The Incredible Hulk, in 1984, only to metastasize over the decades into the current 360-page masterpiece. The book, featuring the finest, most exquisite artwork BWS has ever put to paper, is represented here with superb, high-resolution scans of the original art pages, as well as by examples of outtakes and pages from BWS’s original Hulk story...... 40 BACK MATTER Creators at the Con: Kendall Whitehouse recalls ye olde New York Comic Con............ 78 Coming Attractions: Longtime fan fave artist Terry Dodson is coming in CBC #26!...... 79 A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Alan Kupperberg’s Evil Clown!.................... 80 Right: The life of Janet Bailey briefly intersects with that of young Elias McFarland in a chance meeting the youth will never forget. Artwork from Monsters by (of course) Barry Windsor-Smith.

EDITOR’S NOTE: Due to space limitations, Ken Meyer, Jr.’s “Great Fanzines of the 1970s” feature has been delayed and will appear in our next issue. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

or through our Apple and Google Apps!

& DON’T SHARE THEM WITH FRIENDS OR POST THEM ONLINE. Help us keep producing great publications like this one!

COMIC BOOK CREATOR is a proud joint production of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows

Comic Book Artist Vol. 1 & 2 are available as digital downloads from twomorrows.com

Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly (more or less) by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 601, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $46 US, $69 International, $18 Digital. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2021 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. ISSN 2330-2437. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

Dedicated to the memories of BOB FUJITANI, RON COBB, RICHARD CORBEN, ADELE KURTZMAN, ANN EISNER, DICK LUPOFF, FRANK THORNE, S. CLAY WILSON, and KIRK TILANDER ™

JON B. COOKE Editor & Designer

JOHN MORROW Publisher & Consulting Editor

MICHAEL AUSHENKER Associate Editor

BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH Cover Artist

RICHARD J. ARNDT TOM ZIUKO STEVEN THOMPSON Contributing Editors

STEVEN TICE ROSE RUMMEL-EURY Transcribers

J.D. KING CBC Cartoonist

TOM ZIUKO CBC Colorist Supreme

RONN SUTTON CBC Illustrator

ROB SMENTEK CBC Proofreader

GREG PRESTON CBC Contributing Photographer

KENDALL WHITEHOUSE CBC Convention Photographer

CBC Columnists To contact CBC, please email jonbcooke@aol.com or snail-mail Comic Book Creator c /o Jon B. Cooke, P.O. Box 601 West Kingston, RI 02892 2

Last year’s ass-whoopin’ comes home and gets personal

Just as I was toiling away on this So far (knock wood) it’s not issue (which went through a major Covid-19 that’s come to darken revamp halfway into production), I Casa Cooke’s doorway, but the have learned that perhaps the most family is facing a serious health celebrated contributor to my horror concern, so I appreciate—very comix anthology has passed away, much—your patience and unwhich has left me utterly stunned. derstanding regarding the Following heart surgery, Richard frequency of this magazine Corben died on Dec. 2, 2020. The artist during this trying time. was a wholly original creator whose Your humble editor is workbrilliant work spanned the segreing as best as he can, juggling gated niches in the world of comics. various projects while attending His stories appeared in fanzines, to the needs of the ailing family underground comix, prozines, blackmember. Much of the available &-white comics mags, full-color slick time has been devoted to The mags, European albums, alternative/ Charlton Companion, a bookcreator-owned comics, and even length history of the notorious in mainstream super-hero comics. Derby, Connecticut, all-in-one He made an impact in commercial comics outfit that adorned the illustration (Meat Loaf’s Bat Out of Hell spinner racks of America bealbum cover art) and in animated movtween 1944–1986. And don’t think ies (Heavy Metal), and he introduced this 256-pager, full-color baby is an entirely new approach to coloring. a mere repackaging of the CharlRichard was notoriously recluton issues of Comic Book Artist sive, and while he always declined magazine. Au contraire, mon my requests for a career-spanning ami! With the able consultation interview, he would still occasionally and assist of Michael Ambrose, join various projects of mine, including editor of Charlton Spotlight, and The Warren Companion, and he was some superb guest contribualways willing to share a quote or tors, this tome will feature an two. The artist, an absolute favorite of all-new prose narrative, a lot of Barry Windsor-Smith by Ronn Sutton mine, was always kind and respectful. it a wholesale rewrite of much Richard was also playful, teasing about the paltry of the company’s history and its founders. What I’ve discovered in my research (no small feat when visits to page rate offered to all who participated in SDZ. In February 2020, he wrote me (referring to collaborator libraries and universities are out of the question due to the pandemic) is pretty amazing stuff. Whether Charlton Bruce Jones), “I’m waiting for that big fat check and I know Bruce is, too. I think he had his eye on a yacht.” Comics, all too often dismissed as a third-rate outfit, is worthy of this much attention is for someone wiser than He was even grateful to be a part of the anthology, to team again with Bruce, “just like old times.” And he me to assess, but I do promise a rollicking fun read! candidly admitted, in a colossal understatement: Look for it sometime in 2022 from TwoMorrows. “Well, I guess I’m really not doing it for the money.” Another book I’m working on is a history celebratI have always been in awe of Richard’s work, ing the 50th anniversary of Last Gasp of San Francisco, ever since becoming absorbed as a young teen upon Mind Candy for the Masses, which includes a massive interview with publisher Ron “Ronzo” Turner, the under- reading a ragged copy of Rowlf, his epic tale of a hapless German Shepherd magically given the body ground comix legend. It’ll take a bit of time to wrassle of a man. The mix of realistic rendering, slapstick this one to the ground—so many moving parts!—but cartooning, remarkable conveyance of mood, unique hopefully this sucker will see the light of day sometime blend of humor and menace… and this was all drawn this year. Keep your eyes peeled to this editorial. in black-&-white! That is, even before he revolutionized In the meantime, Last Gasp’s Slow Death Zero is comic-book coloring, introducing a Day-Glo palette! now available, an anthology of environmental horror I am genuinely shaken by Richard’s death. Hours stories that I edited, which features an incredible before I heard of his demise, I was pondering how to array of cartoonists and comic book storytellers, some (once again) ask him for an interview. I’ll miss him. veterans of the original comix series, some Last Gasp Peace to you, RC. You’re now one with the universe. alumni, and some relative newbies—and all talented.

cbc contributors Aaron Caplin Joe Crawford Fantagraphics Gary Groth

David “Hambone” Hamilton Chris James Rick Leonardi

Caroline Miller Amelia Munro Felipe H. Navarro Chris O’Brien

Greg Preston Sal Quartuccio Patrick Rosenkranz Cory Sedlmeier

— Ye Crusading Editor jonbcooke@aol.com Scott Shaw! Andrew Speers Margaret Stewart Ernie Stimer

Steve Thompson Barry WindsorSmith José Villarrubia

#25 • Spring 2021 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

MICHAEL AUSHENKER FRED HEMBECK STEVEN THOMPSON TOM ZIUKO

2021: A Life Odyssey

up front

Sal’s Sizzlin’ Hot Stuf’

Phase one of CBC ’s two-part interview with pro-zine/print master Sal Quartuccio Interview conducted by JON B. COOKE

All items TM & © the respective copyright holders.

[For many years I promised Sal Quartuccio that I’d interview him. I’d always been very curious about his presence in comics fandom during the 1970s and ’80s, as publisher of the excellent pro-zines, Phase and Hot Stuf’, publications that stretched the boundaries of what comics could be, years before the alternative comics scene matured. I’d also been aware of Sal’s print publishing during the days when it became a full-blown fad in the industry, first with the outstanding “Jungle Man” portfolios by Neal Adams and ultimately with a batch of well-recalled Marvel sets. What best I remember is buying a copy of Phase #1 at a Phil Seuling Comic Art Convention in the early 1970s, no doubt blowing a good portion of my allowance for the three-day show! It was money very well spent. I finally conducted the promised chat in September and here’s part one… —Ye Ed.] Comic Book Creator: You’re a Brooklyn boy, Sal? Sal Quartuccio: Yes. I was born in Manhattan, raised in Queens for the first 11 years, and then to Brooklyn. CBC: What did your dad do? Sal: He served with Patton in World War II. He was a tank driver. After the war he met my mom. They were both born in Manhattan and actually lived about two blocks away from each other. They got married in 1950 and in 1952 there I was! [laughter] My dad started out pretty young doing silk screening printing for a company and then, after the war, he wanted a city job and went for a policeman job, but had a little bit of shrapnel in his eye from the war, so they couldn’t take him. He then went to become a fireman, but because of the shrapnel, they couldn’t take him. He ended up at the sanitation department where they were happy to have him. He stayed with them until he retired. CBC: How many siblings? Sal: A younger brother and sister. CBC: Was your mom a housewife? Sal: Yep. Mom was a housewife. CBC: Middle-class life, pretty much? Sal: I’d say so. We lived on the second floor of my aunt’s house in Queens and, once all three of us were born, my dad found a house in Brooklyn, a few blocks away from his parents’ home. He took in my mother’s parents—who were still in the Lower East Side—he brought them over. So, my mother’s parents lived in our basement and my father’s parents were six blocks down the road. CBC: So, a big family? Sal: Yes. My father had a lot of brothers and sisters, so I had a lot of cousins. Pretty much every Sunday, everybody was at my grandparents’ house. We had a ball. It was a COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2021 • #25

nice childhood, with a nice bunch of cousins. And we’re all still in contact with each other. CBC: Did you pal around with kids in the neighborhood? Sal: Once we moved to Brooklyn, I did. I was just sitting on my stoop and would see this really big kid walking up the block, reading comic books. Now, I was always into comic books. So, that’s where I met John Carbonaro. He lived up the block from me. We met playing stickball. He was a real Marvel guy, but I wasn’t—I was an Archie guy as a kid, but got into DC and World’s Finest, which my mom got me a subscription to and that was great. So, I was a DC kid and John let me borrow some of his Fantastic Fours, and I said, “Holy smokes!” From that moment on, I became a big Kirby and FF fan. CBC: How old were you when you met John? Sal: I was 12 or 13, and John was a year older than me. He went to a different high school. He was always into comics. CBC: Were you creative as a kid? Did you draw? Did you write? Were you good in school? Sal: When I was pretty young, nine or 10, my mother had a typewriter. I used to love the holiday comic books: Halloween specials, Christmas specials, Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer that DC published every year, and all the seasonal stuff that Gold Key and Dell did, as well as the Little Archie stuff. For some reason, I became an

Above: Sal Quartuccio prompted early ’70s comics fans to take notice with the excellence of his pro-zines, the one-shot Phase One and Hot Stuf’ (which lasted eight issues, ending in 1978). The publisher (seen below) was also the behind-the-scenes production guy behind a couple of New York Comic Art Convention souvenir books.

Hot Stuf’s Hottest Stuff!

This page: Clockwise from top left, Sal Quartuccio’s logo in the later ’70s; Rich Corben panel, Hot Stuf’ #2; Gray Morrow’s work in HS #2; Corben panel, HS #3; Robert Kline panel art, HS #4; Herb Arnold art, HS #3; Will Meugniot panel, HS #2; Tim Kirk’s splash page, HS #3; panel detail featuring caricatures of Hot Stuf’ #1 co-publishers John Carbonaro and Sal Quartuccio, drawn by fledgling artist George Pérez; Corben panel; HS #2; and detail from Rich Buckler’s work in HS #1.

All are TM & © the respective copyright holders.

#25 • Spring 2021 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

All are TM & © the respective copyright holders.

This page: Clockwise from top left, perhaps the finest work by Ernie Colon appeared in his “Manimal” serial featured in HS (this portion is from #6); HS logo; Alex Toth’s extraordinary work in HS #4; detail from Terry Austin’s pin-up in HS #7; Sonny Trinidad panel, HS #7; cover detail by Corben from HS #5; Girl Scout Godzilla by Bil Maher, HS #8 (with panels above by Rich Larson and Tim Boxell, HS #6); Corben assistant Herb Arnold’s work from HS #5 (with pair of panels above by Bil Maher from HS #7); and opening splash panel from HS #4 by Mike Vosburg. COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2021 • #25

rapping with rick leonardi

Hamish MacInnes, Spider-Man 2099

Artist Rick Leonardi on Spider-Man 2099 and some Scottish mannie named Hamish by ROBERT MENZIES

Below: Rick Leonardi poses with Secret Wars #8 [Dec. 1984], in the City Centre Comics shop, located in Glasgow, Scotland, on Sept. 27, 2019.

If you’re a Spider-Man 2099 fan, I know what you’re thinking: the alter ego of that character is named Miguel O’Hara. So who’s this MacInnes gent named in our headline? Glad you asked! Hamish MacInnes, OBE, is a Scottish mountaineering legend who climbed the Matterhorn at the age of 16 and was deputy leader of Sir Chris Bonington’s 1975 Mount Everest ascent. MacInnes also invented the “MacInnes Stretcher,” used in mountain rescue the world over, and he introduced the short ice axe and hammer with inclined picks for winter climbing. Got it? You’re maybe now getting an inkling of how he connects to the Spidey of 2099, but let’s leave it to comic book artist Rick Leonardi to eventually fill us in on that and many other details related to Spider-Man, his black costume, and how, in the early 1990s, Peter David and Leonardi predicted Amazon’s Alexa and the cult of President Donald Trump.

First, a quick history lesson about the future The 2099 line of comics was about future versions of Marvel heroes and villains, with one entirely new character, Ravage, written by no less than Stan “The Man” Lee and illustrated by an under-appreciated Paul Ryan (who passed away in 2016). The initial four titles—Spider-Man 2099, Doom 2099, Punisher 2099 and Ravage 2099—were soon joined by new incarnations of the X-Men, Ghost Rider and Hulk. The Fantastic Four of 2099, with Leonardi helping with the launch, were originally written as the classic team only to be later revealed as copies created by the Watcher. Spider-Man 2099 was an immediate success—the first issue [Nov. 1992] is the biggest selling book of Peter David’s entire career—and the title remained popular until the ending with #46 [Aug. ’96]. It was high profile enough that Now Comics released their parody Married with Children 2099 [June–Aug. 1993], a mash-up of the Fox TV sit-com, pop sci-fi, and 2099 characters. In the years after the line was cancelled, the characters made only occasional appearances and it was largely ignored (if not quite forgotten) until Spider-Man 2099 was revived in 2014, with Peter David returning as writer. Information on the origins of Spider-Man 2099 is scant and what little can be found is nearly always from the perspective of writer/co-creator Peter David. He has reported that writers were asked to pitch ideas for the character and he made two core decisions: first, the new Spider-Man would not be a descendant of Peter Parker. Perhaps surprisingly, David was the only writer who proposed this genealogical distance and, for reasons Leonardi explained during our interview, it was that more than any other single idea which led Cavalieri to offer David the gig. David explained his other core principle to Newsarama, in 2009. Pretty much every place where Stan [Lee] zigged, I zagged. Which is not to say that Stan did it wrong—quite the contrary. But my feeling was, if we’re going to make him a character unique unto himself, then we have to take all the choices that Stan Lee made with the original Spider-Man and do the exact opposite. So whereas Peter Parker is a high school student, Miguel is a fully-realized adult working in a laboratory. Whereas Peter was shy and reticent and didn’t know how to talk to girls but talky and outgoing as Spider-Man, Miguel O’Hara was a fully confident wiseacre with a fiancée… and as Spider-Man, relatively mute.

#25 • Spring 2021 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Secret Wars TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Photo by Chris James.

Photo by CHRIS JAMES

Accurate as this is, there are certainly a few broad similarities, especially in their origin stories. Miguel and Peter are geniuses. Their powers are gained through a scientific accident, albeit with sabotage integral to Miguel’s transformation. Neither Miguel or Peter are especially likable in the origin story and their motivations are entirely selfish: Peter created a costume for a hopefully lucrative showbiz career and Miguel modified a festival outfit to avoid capture by the pursuing bounty hunter called Venture. Unable to stand back and let others be hurt, they become reluctant heroes. The world of 2099 had discrete references to the Marvel of today. Spider-Man’s costume is made from unstable molecules and Reed Richards tech appears in #12 and 13. The company Stark-Fujikawa, a call-back to Tony “Iron Man” Stark, is mentioned regularly, and there is a link to

Hulk supporting character Leonard Samson (“Samsonian psychiatry,” referred to in #17) and the Alchemax School for Gifted Youngsters, in #18, is clearly inspired by Professor Xavier’s place of learning. Throughout the series there are references to the Age of Heroes, with the Thorite religion featuring regularly. Scotland Calling It had been a lengthy gap since artist Rick Leonardi’s first visit to Scotland when, fresh out of college, in the early 1980s, he’d gone hiking in the Highlands with a friend. This included a foggy ascent of the highest peak in Britain, Ben Nevis, and a daredevil traverse along Aonach Eagoch, a narrow ridge between two mountains. On his return in 2019, following a brief stay in Edinburgh, Leonardi and his spouse traveled to Glasgow for an appearance at MCM Scotland Comic Con, allowing me to interview Rick on the Friday night beforehand. Rick and Cynthia also kindly agreed to an invitation to a meal at local restaurant The Ubiquitous Chip, where we were joined by Frank Quitely, artist on Batman and Robin, and wife Ann Jane; my long-suffering bride, Lesley; comic art collector Mark Brogan and Yvonne; Edinburgh Comic Con owner/manager James Lundy; John McShane, co-author of Robert Burns in Edinburgh [2015]; and Chris O’Brien, owner of City Centre Comics. The meal was great, the company even better. The next day Rick attended the convention, where he was visited by Alyssa, his talented niece living here while studying at the city’s prestigious Royal Conservatoire of Scotland. Cynthia, a doctor by profession and somehow twice as smart as that calling would lead one to assume, was with Rick most of Saturday—the wares of the local shopping plazas and the city’s best coffeehouses were the preferred option on Sunday—and was especially curious about the political scene, asking for an explanation for why Britain voted for Brexit and economic hara-kiri. Being a

sane person, I was unable to offer any clarification, although I did point out that Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain a member of the EU. After the con, the Leonardis spent over a week touring the Highlands, stopping off at some of the biscuit-tin staples like the stunning Isle of Skye and the impossibly picturesque Eilean Donan Castle. Mercifully, the usually mercurial weather was, for the most part, charitable to them. But this isn’t a travelogue, so let’s return to the weekend in Glasgow: If Rick Leonardi is an example of the citizens of Philadelphia, then I regret having never visited the city. Soft-spoken, thoughtful, and clearly well read, he explains himself with clarity and conciseness. He has a profound understanding of comic books that I had time to barely scratch the surface of. As someone who’s been in education for two decades, it quickly occurred to me that he exhibits all the temperamental characteristics of an excellent teacher. On Sunday, he reinforced that impression throughout his instructive panel with writer J.M. DeMatteis. These are his thoughts on creative blocks and composition:

Above: Detail from penciler Rick Leonardi and inker Al Williamson’s cover art for Spider-Man 2099 #1 [Nov. 1992], featuring the debut of the future Spidey. Inset left: Ye ed could not resist slipping in a cover [#1, Oct. 1983] from his favorite Leonardi work, Cloak and Dagger. Inks by Terry Austin. Below: MCM (Movie Comic Media) Scotland Comic Con logo. Bottom: J.M. DeMatteis and Rick Leonardi joint panel at the same con.

With the important caveat that I have done very little writing, I would say if there’s a moment in the plot that’s not working and you can’t see your way forward, or the plot is in some way resisting you, is not to look at that as a problem, or an obstacle, but as a signal that the plot is telling you to go in another direction. This is the plot’s organic way of participating in its own creation. It’s an opportunity rather than a moment of panic. I have one or two simple rules. If I’ve had to erase a panel four times, then

COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2021 • #25

sitdown with shaw!

Mr. Exclamation Point!

Part two of Scott Shaw!’s chat covers his professional comics and animation years Interview transcribed by

ROSE RUMMEL-EURY

Above: Cartoonist Scott Shaw! is all smiles for CBC Photographer Supreme Greg Preston in a circa-2014 pic. By the by, back in the early 1990s, it was Scott who first suggested that Greg begin photographing artists in their studios, a project that became the coffee table book, The Artist Within: Portraits of Cartoonists, Comic Book Artists, Animators, and Others. Below: Currently a slideshow he narrates at comic cons, Scott Shaw’s Oddball Comics feature will be compiled into a book from TwoMorrows coming to comic shops in the future!

[When last we left the cartoonist, Scott Shaw! discussed his upbringing, lifelong affiliation with the San Diego Comic-Con, underground comix work, and friendship with the King of comics, Jack Kirby. In this second segment of his career-spanning interview, the San Diego-born artist discusses his breakout with Captain Carrot and the Amazing Zoo Crew and subsequent long stint in animation and licensing. Scott was interviewed by phone in mid-2019. Initially, we discuss the roots of his “Oddball Comics” feature. —Ye Ed.] Comic Book Creator: How did you get attracted to the oddball stuff? Scott Shaw!: As a kid, I was attracted to the monster stuff. And of course, DC and Marvel were definitely playing to the monster fans. Even the Marvel covers, I think Stan wanted them to look as close as possible to posters for American monster movies. It certainly resonated with me, so I bought just any comics I could afford with a monster, a dinosaur, or a gorilla on the cover, which of course, was by order of DC publisher Irwin Donenfeld. Apparently he was stalking me because I was proof to his bosses that it was working. Also as a kid, I bought all the funny stuff and then started adding in books edited by Mort Weisinger and Julie Schwartz, and also Marvel books by that time, but I was always buying all the funny stuff that was good—Sugar and

Spike and Uncle Scrooge and all that stuff. So I always had a much wider interest than other fans and collectors would, I suppose. CBC: Right. Scott: And, a lot of the stuff I really liked as a kid, as an adult—I’ve been writing and drawing comics for a long time—but I can see exactly why I liked it. Two of my favorite oddball comics that had lots of dinosaurs in it were “The War that Time Forgot” feature in Star Spangled War Stories. Bob Kanigher understood that boys liked to play with plastic dinosaurs and it always cracked me up because the colorist apparently had been given a bag of those plastic figurines you’d get and they’d always color them the same way: the tyrannosaurus was always red and the plesiosaurus was always purple. [chuckles] The other one was Kona, Monarch of Monster Isle, which was Sam Glanzman’s dinosaur comic book published by Dell, which he wrote the first 10 issues—and they all read like a pulp magazine written on LSD. [Jon laughs] They are the weirdest comics I’ve ever read in my entire life and, in their own way, they are also brilliant! I also loved the longest-running oddball titles of all time, Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen and Superman’s Girlfriend, Lois Lane. Even though I was a kid, I understood that Lois Lane wasn’t written by a woman because you could tell how just how much the writers hated the character! [chuckles] Every issue of these comics had a sitcom story with something freaky happening to Lois or Jimmy, and next would be serious with a little bit of Mort Weisinger gravitas to it. I mean, even though those comics are not exactly classics, they are brilliantly put together. In eight pages, I once described them as “a Fabergé egg made of crap,” because they are so cleverly made. When I was writing my “Oddball Comics” column a few years ago, I realized you can’t leave out a single detail when describing a Jimmy Olsen or Lois Lane story or they fall apart. Everything that’s in there is put there for the payoff, especially if it involves something… DC always liked to use a gimmick called “the plastic with a memory.” Do you remember that? CBC: No. Scott: Oh, “the gun that turns into a Frisbee.” It seemed like every other story had something in it in the ’50s—at least the ones that I was reading. [chuckles] I kept waiting to get my hands on some of that plastic. CBC: Irwin Donenfeld told me that, at one time, Lois Lane was a top-selling book for DC. Scott: And, if or no other reason, the work in that book by Kurt Schaffenberger was amazing. He was never a flashy artist, but if you look at his stuff, he didn’t leave anything out that was necessary. Everything was beautifully delineated. That guy was a real craftsman. On Jimmy Olsen, I’m always blown away at how good Curt Swan was at comedy! Not cartoony comedy, but actually he would have been perfect if he’d worked for Dell doing adaptations of TV sitcoms. He could get that kind of acting in his work. At the time I didn’t realize it, but that was his biggest asset—getting his characters to get the acting right. CBC: Pretty early on, you were in the “ground-level” comics of Mike Friedrich. How did that come about? #25 • Spring 2021 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Conducted by JON B. COOKE

Scott: Mike might’ve gotten in touch with me to contribute to Quack. I might have known him from Comic-Con early on. I was already doing underground comix, so this was a stab at something a little more mainstream. He wanted to take advantage of the Howard the Duck fad and feature the work of Frank Brunner. When I got in there, he needed people to fill pages. CBC: You came up with You-All Gibbon, a parody of something I don’t think many folks get these days. [laughter] Scott: A lot of that material is based on pop-culture that is now so obscure. Euell Gibbons was the guy who was the on-screen pitchman for Grape-Nuts cereal. I actually met him while I was working at the San Diego Zoo, when he was walking around handing out wild hickory nuts! I’m not kidding. That was his gimmick. He always mentioned something about wild hickory nuts in those commercials. He was a self-sufficient woodsman and food expert—I’m not exactly sure what his credibility was. I thought, “What’s the opposite of that? Okay, someone who exists on nothing but junk food.” So, that’s how I came up with You-All Gibbon, the junk-food monkey. Not exactly a classic, but what the hell… better than The Turd! [laughter] Duckula was another thing I did for the Star*Reach comics, another low-hanging gag. It got me into a tremendous adventure. I’d only done a few pages, but they turned up at Filmation Studios, and a friend who worked there said, “Hey, we’re working on something based on your character.” I called other friends over there and learned it was for a new Mighty Mouse show, called “Quacula.” I was young and cocky, and I managed to juggle a lawsuit against Filmation and a divorce lawsuit against my first wife. I managed to keep them separate and keep myself relatively sane and, in the process, I found out they were doing model sheets and taking essentially my characters’ features and putting them on Bob Clampett’s Daffy Duck model sheets from the ’40s. I was friends with Clampett and I called him. “Would you be my expert witness if this goes?” He said, “Absolutely,” even though he didn’t own Daffy Duck. “I’d like to sue those S.O.B.s, too!” [Jon chuckles] I got into it and realized, even though I was in the right, it was eating me alive—the anxiety of it all and the depositions. Ultimately, we settled out of court the day before trial. CBC: How long were you married? Scott: Eternity! [chuckles] Fortunately, Judith (my second wife) and I have been married for 34 years and counting. CBC: You’re keeping your hand in undergrounds… you did Fear and Laughter, that Hunter Thompson... Scott: Yeah, I put that together and edited it for Kitchen Sink. Got a lot of top-flight cartoonist friends to do it, too. It’s apparently collectible. I can’t find copies for myself. Apparently, Hunter Thompson hated people doing cartoons of him. So, even though I’m a big fan, if I’d ever crossed his path, he probably vow to kill me! CBC: He would have shot you. Scott: I tried to get Ralph Steadman to see if he would let me reprint one of his drawings and he sent me a very terse typewritten note on the thinnest onion-skin paper I’ve ever seen that said, “No, I don’t wish to be involved in such projects.” I sent him a copy after it was published and he sent me this florid handwritten… looked like it was in a pool of ink—the whole back page was encrusted with ink—that said, “Congratulations, it’s a piece of sh*t. But if you do another one of these, I suggest you get some decent nibs.” CBC: [Laughs] He said “nibs?” COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2021 • #25

Scott: Yes. Because It has that wonderful scrawl of his, but it looks like he’s drawing with blood clots! I’ve got it framed! I’ve met Ralph a few times and he doesn’t remember me, of course, but he’s a wonderful guy. CBC: So, besides your lawsuit, how did animation start coming into play for you professionally? Scott: Well, after the Jack Kirby poster, I had decided to back off from doing stuff that was too outrageous, so my work wasn’t ridiculously offensive. Mark Evanier, who I’d met at Jack’s house, was writing for Marvel on the Hanna-Barbera [H-B] line, in 1977 or ’78. He was working with an editor named Chase Craig, who worked for at Western Publishing editing a lot of Gold Key titles from their West Coast office. So Mark asked Chase if he’d give me a shot and the first thing I wound up doing, I inked a Yogi Bear cover by Pete Alvarado. That just snowballed from there. Then I inked those Funtastic Treasury Editions that had all those Hanna-Barbara characters. After a while, they had be drawing, writing, and inking stuff. We were

Left: Scott Shaw!’s “ground-level” comics work appeared in Quack, the Star*Reach funny animal title, which featured his “Duckula” and “You-All Gibbon” strips. The latter, seen top right, was a parody of a then-popular (though now largely forgotten) breakfast cereal spokesman, the health food advocate Euell Gibbons, seen here. Below: The cartoonist, obscured by Homer Simpsons’ doughnut, is surrounded by many of the characters he has drawn over the decades, even including his high school mascot, Coltman!

#25 • Spring 2021 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Comic Book Creator is honored to feature a thorough exploration of Barry Windsor-Smith’s mammoth new graphic novel, Monsters, from its start in 1984 as a oneoff issue of The Incredible Hulk to its publication as a 360-page hardcover epic—deemed his “magnum opus” by The Library Journal—released this April by Fantagraphics. What follows is an interview with the graphic novelist, a review by renowned comics scholar Paul Gravett, and a deep dive into its origins as a Marvel comic book, chronicling its journey as a 35-year long massive undertaking.

COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2021 • #25

THE INTERVIEW

PORTRAIT BY

#25 • Spring 2021 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH

Making An Epic A conversation with Barry Windsor-Smith about his Monsters

INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY

JON B. COOKE COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Spring 2021 • #25

Since the early days of Comic Book Artist magazine—1998 or so—I’ve been pals with Barry Windsor-Smith, though, by that time, I’d also been a proud fan of his art for a quarter-century. The first work of his I bought with my own money was The Avengers #100 [June 1972], yet I already had some exposure to his Conan the Barbarian my older brothers kept raving on about. But it was a few months later, when I opened the cover of Conan #19 [Oct. ’72], the gorgeous “Hawks from the Sea” splash page turned me into a fanatic and, second only to Jack Kirby, the art of BWS became a transcendent journey for me. I was consumed with a passion I wanted to share with family so, when Conan #24 [Mar. ’73] appeared, with his exquisite “Song of Red Sonja,” I purchased multiple copies and, during that year’s Comic Art Convention, I had Barry and writer Roy Thomas sign what I later handed out to siblings as Christmas gifts. From then on, though the man’s work was found less frequently, his artistry advanced exponentially and thus always worth however long the wait. And I followed wherever it was to be discovered, whether in prints published by his Gorblimey Press, in the pages of The Studio art book, and then, after a lapse, at Marvel in the 1980s, where began a 30-year gestation that resulted in Monsters, his new graphic novel. Barry contributed to some of my own projects— Streetwise and Prime8, as well as participated in CBA’s Flo Steinberg issue—and he became a friend and confidant during some of my difficult years. In the ’10s, I visited his Hudson Valley home on occasion and helped him out on this or that. In September 2019, news came that Monsters was finally complete and I traveled there to scan the pages, during which we talked about his mammoth undertaking. We also discussed related subjects, though BWS edited out a bit of it to keep focused on his massive undertaking. (Some of what I heard during that chat is featured in our adjoining essay on the backstory of Monsters.) Special thanks to Margaret Stewart for her help and camaraderie, and (of course) to Linda Fite for helping to celebrate an end and a beginning.—JBC 43