Comic Book Creator #14 by TwoMorrows Publishing

™

A Tw o M o r r o w s P u b l i c a t i o n

No. 14, Winter 2017

$8.95

82658 00064

All Shadow characters TM TM & Comics. The &©©DCCondé Nast.

in the USA

82658 00064

also: RAINA TELGEMEIER • THE GHOSTS OF BOB KANE • SONNY LIEW • DREW FRIEDMAN

W i n t e r 2 0 1 7 • Vo i c e o f t h e C o m i c s M e d i u m • N u m b e r 1 4

T DEAD-WOODY CBC mascot by J.D. KING

Ye Ed’s Rant: Keeping Up with Jones............................................................................... 2 COMICS CHATTER

About Our Cover

Comic Book Zeitgeist: Talking with Singapore’s Greatest cartoonist, Sonny Liew, about his life and recent magnum opus, The Art of Charlie Chan Hock Chye............ 3

Art by KELLEY JONES Colors by GLENN WHITMORE

Incoming: Extra-long letters o’ comment section on our Gil Kane ish........................... 12 The Trouble With Bob: Will Murray examines the troublesome legacy of Bob Kane, spurned Batman co-creator Bill Finger, and the caped crusader’s many ghosts...... 18 Raina Telgemeier’s Smiling Army: Correspondent Eti Berland looks into the phenomenal success of the lauded graphic novelist and her cadre of fans............. 24

Characters TM & © DC Comics.

Comics in the Library: Rich Arndt on Marc Tyler Nobleman’s books about comics..... 27 Drew Friedman’s Hero Worship: Rob Smentek talks to the amazing caricaturist and recent author of More Heroes of the Comics..................................................... 28 Hembeck’s Dateline: Our Man Fred on forgotten Brit artist Leopold “Lee” Elias........ 31 THE MAIN EVENT Above: Kelley Jones graces his CBC cover with three of his signature characters at DC Comics, Batman, Swamp Thing, and Deadman. Memorably, the artist would join with writer Doug Moench, inker John Beatty, and letterer Todd Klein, to produce 34 issues of Batman in the mid-’90s within a 37-month time frame. His Deadman, of course, was featured in Action Comics and in two mini-series, all written by Mike Baron. Of late, Kelley has drawn Swamp Thing for a two-issue Convergence run in 2015, as well as a six-issue series written by Len Wein, published in 2016. If you’re viewing a Digital Edition of this publication,

Bloodwork: The Art of Kelley Jones. In a massive and totally geeked-out rap session, longtime Jones pal Peter Quinones conducts a thoroughly exhaustive, career-spanning interview with the comic book professional in a conversation that covers the artist’s love of movies, music, and weird fiction, as well as Kelley’s enormous body of comics work. The chat details his earliest years as Micronauts inker, breakout with his two Deadman prestige format mini-series, mind-bending “Elseworlds” graphic novels (starring Batman as a vampire), threeyear stint as monthly Batman artist, and his forays outside DC, including his work on the creator-owned The Hammer and other Dark Horse assignments, along with recent Swamp Thing work and upcoming Batman: Master of Fear. We also include a breathtaking gallery of Kelley Jones artwork courtesy of the artist......... 32 BACK MATTER Creators at the Con: The debut of Kendall Whitehouse’s photo feature........................ 76 Coming Attractions: Announcing the Archosaurs and Automobiles of Mark Schultz.... 77

PLEASE READ THIS:

A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Kelley Jones’ Deadman presentation art.... 80

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Right: The creation of Doug Moench and Kelley Jones, the Elseworlds vampire Batman. Here is a detail of Kelley’s cover art for the collection, Elseworlds: Batman Vol. 2, which includes all the vampire stories.

www.twomorrows.com

COMIC BOOK CREATOR is a proud joint production of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows

Comic Book Artist Vol. 1 & 2 are now available as digital downloads from twomorrows.com! Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $40 Standard US, $60 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2017 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. ISSN 2330-2437. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

This issue is dedicated to the memory of STEVE DILLON ™

JON B. COOKE Editor & Designer

JOHN MORROW Publisher & Consulting Editor

MICHAEL AUSHENKER Associate Editor

KELLEY JONES Cover Artist

GLENN WHITMORE Cover Colorist

GEORGE KHOURY RICHARD J. ARNDT TOM ZIUKO Contributing Editors

STEVEN THOMPSON BRIAN K. MORRIS Transcribers

J.D. KING CBC Cartoonist

TOM ZIUKO CBC Colorist Supreme

RONN SUTTON CBC Illustrator

ROB SMENTEK CBC Proofreader

GREG PRESTON KENDALL WHITEHOUSE CBC Convention Photographer

MICHAEL AUSHENKER FRED HEMBECK GEORGE KHOURY TOM ZIUKO CBC Columnists To contact CBC, please email jonbcooke@aol.com or snail-mail CBC, P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892 2

Remembering our guileless early affection for this artform The resulting 33,000+ word Q&A — This issue’s main feature could conducted by Quinones, who had prenot have come at a better time viously interviewed Jones for Comics for yours truly, arriving as it did Interview and Comics Scene, as well during a particularly tumultuous as a talk with Pulitzer laureate Michael period. Because, y’see, much as Chabon for The Comics Journal — is I love comic books, I’ve always about the accomplished artist’s love for been a political junkie, and for weird fiction, eclectic music, dinosaur those, like me, who suffer this movies, and (of course) a passion for affliction, the 2016 U.S. Presithe work of Bernie Wrightson, an artist dential campaign season has whose work he so effectively channels been as addictive as no other. I and yet makes his own. Oh, and yes, type these words a mere 48 hours Jones does discuss his comics work. before the polls open and while Both Quinones and Jones have I’m tremendously anxious about been wonderful to deal with in the where the results of Tuesday’s making of this issue. The family-man vote will take this country, I am artist is particularly pleasant and glad to have spent a good chunk helpful, and it is immediately apparof the last few weeks finding ent that while he clearly recognizes solace in a shared love of comics his accomplishments and value as a by “getting back to the garden,” professional, the gentleman’s gratitude so to speak. and humility is just as obvious. I hope Back in June 2015, former you find pleasure in the extra-lengthy comics writer Peter Quinones feature herein. This has been a blast. dropped Ye Ed an unsolicited email, It was also great fun — and equally one suggesting a comprehensive serendipitous — to showcase old feature on his friend, and he chum Sonny Liew for our opening explained a personal connection to feature on his career in general and the artist. “Kelley Jones was part of very specifically about his astonishing a group of young Sacramento-area Kelley Jones by Ronn Sutton graphic novel, The Art of Charlie Chan artists back in the 1980s,” Quinones Hock Chye, a release from Pantheon I wrote. “He was the first one to break cannot recommend highly enough. Sonny and I go back into comics, landing the inking job on Micronauts. I met Kelley through a group that hung around Comics & to my days editing the Top Shelf edition of Comic Book Comix, a group that included Jim Sinclair (inker on Sam Artist (to which he contributed a sketchbook feature) and it’s been nice charting his rise in the comics world, Kieth’s The Maxx), Glen Johnson (penciler on some most recently as artist on Doctor Fate. As enjoyable as issues of Sun Runners and then went into video game his mainstream comics work has been, Liew’s latest design), and would grow to include Ron Lim (who lived book launches him into the realm of important graphic out of town), and Marty Lasick (who was inker on Kirnovelists of our time. Learning that he was to lecture at by-related projects). I was the writer of the group, and a local art school soon after I found an advance copy of would eventually work with all of them on a number of Charlie Chan proved an astonishing coincidence. independent comics.” What is mind-blowing about Liew’s effort is his I’ll be frank and share that though I had been pretty plethora of spot-on homages to so many different much buying anything that Kelley Jones has drawn ever since his breathtaking redesign of the character in aspects of comics history. As with the obvious affection 1989’s Deadman: Love After Death, the notion of cover- Kelley Jones infuses into his efforts, so too does the Singapore artist pour tremendous enthusiasm throughing the artist in one of my magazines hadn’t struck me out his work. These shots of unabashed ardor for comuntil this email. Quinones’ lengthy missive gave me an ics are just what one needs in this volatile, polarized immediate sense that the writer really wanted to not time that often pits neighbor against neighbor. only celebrate a deserving artist but also find a place While Ye Ed has no plans to ignore issues of our for a comprehensive conversation between two friends time, it sure is good to be reminded of the joy of comics. just geeking-out about their shared love for comics, movies, and music. I immediately gave the go-ahead. — Ye Crusading Editor jonbcooke@aol.com

cbc contributors

Richard J. Arndt Allen Bellman Eti Berland Alan Brennert Andrew D. Cooke Drew Friedman Fred Hembeck

Heritage Auctions Londyn Jackson J.G. Jones Kelley Jones J.D. King Sonny Liew Don McGregor

John Morrow Will Murray Eric Nolen-Weathington Peter Quinones Jerry Robinson Joyce Sim Jim Sinclair

Rob Smentek The Southwick Boys Joe Staton Ronn Sutton Ty Templeton Roy Thomas Maggie Thompson

Carol Tilley The Time Capsule Kendall Whitehouse Patty Willett Bernie Wrightson Rob Yeremian Tom Ziuko

#14 • Winter 2017 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

CBC Contributing Photographer

Keeping Up with Jones

comic book zeitgeist

Singapore’s Greatest CBC talks with graphic novelist Sonny Liew about The Art of Charlie Chan Hock Chye

by JON B. COOKE CBC Editor The appeal of the art of Sonny Liew isn’t easy to simply state, but suffice to say I know what I like and I’ve loved his work for quite some time now, ever since we first met and he opened his portfolio at a Comic-Con International: San Diego, in the early 2000s. One look at the Singapore artist’s charming, engaging, humorous, and tremendously energetic work made me a fan for life, and I immediately enlisted him to share sketchbook pages for a Comic Book Artist feature back in ’04, and I’ve been an avid follower ever since. So to say I was stunned to pick up an advance copy of The Art of Charlie Chan Hock Chye [Pantheon, ’16] at a Niantic, Connecticut, used bookstore is an understatement. Sonny’s first bona fide graphic novel is, in the apt words of NPR’s Fresh Air, a “tour de force,” one that gives us a biography of a fictional Singapore comics creator while simultaneously depicting the very real political history of the Southeast Asian island city-state. This ambitious story is partly told through extraordinary pastiches of a diverse array of sources — Walt Kelly’s comic strip, Pogo; Batman: The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller; Carl Barks’ Uncle Scrooge; and even the E.C. war comics of Harvey Kurtzman — all culminating to give a moving and effective masterwork by a supremely talented artist who has matured into a creative force to be reckoned with. Thus this past spring, when Sonny visited his alma mater, the Rhode Island School of Design, I jumped at the chance to attend his presentation and the artist kindly agreed to sit for an interview. The following biographical profile had been distilled from his lecture and our talk and has been copyedited by Sonny for accuracy and clarity. Top inset: The U.S. edition of Sonny Liew’s excellent new book, The Art of Charlie Chan Hock Chye. Above inset: Detail from Sonny’s Doctor Fate #2 cover. Top right: Cover for the Singapore edition of Sonny’s latest book. Right: Photo of Sonny taken during his visit to the Rhode Island School of Design this past April. COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2017 • #14

The Early Years

Though he and his older sister, Cheryl, were born in Malaysia, they had moved to the tiny city-state of Singapore when Sonny was about five years old. “My parents sent us over because they thought that Singapore had a better educational system, which was taught in English, while Malaysia’s schools used the Malay language.” Their father was a practicing physician and the Liew siblings experienced a middle-class upbringing. Sonny (whose Chinese name is Jing Xian) and his sister would copy stuff from comics and illustrated children’s books, he said. “Dennis the Menace, Mickey Mouse, all those things… everything we saw, we would make drawings. Back in those days, she would win prizes in school for her art.” He adds with a laugh, “She never had a real interest in it, but she was definitely a better artist than I was.” (Cheryl, who studied economics at Cambridge, England, and attended Harvard, worked at Morgan Stanley and is today a tech search recruiter, in San Francisco.) While there wasn’t much of a comics scene to speak of in his adopted country while he was growing up, “In the ’80s,” Sonny says, “there was a bit of a boom, because of the influence of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, and some comics were being brought in from Hong Kong and Taiwan. There was a slight increase of creators doing original work in Singapore, but before that there really was not a lot of stuff being produced (though there were ample newspaper strips).” That is, in comparison with another Asian comics pro3

incoming

Kudos, Comments on Kane LOCs on CBC #11’s exhaustive biography on the artist formally known as Eli Katz Write to CBC: jonbcooke@ aol.com or P. O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892

[By Crom! Just after yours truly’s endless whining about not receiving much in the way of reader response, the palatial offices of CBC were awash in missives about our Gil Kane biography in #11! Thanks to all who wrote and now on to those letters… — Ye Crusading Editor]

Gary Brown

Below: Reader Gary Brown (who contributed to Ye Ed’s old magazine, Comic Book Artist, back in the day) tells us he vividly recalls picking up Western Comics #77 [Oct. ’59], which debuted “Matt Savage, Trail Boss,” and introduced Brown to the artistry of Mr. Gil Kane.

Geoff Grogan Congratulations and thanks for CBC #11 focusing on Gil Kane. Exhaustive and informative, your article enriches a fan’s appreciation of his work — work that I’ve greatly admired since I first encountered it on one or two post-Ditko issues of The Hawk and the Dove back in the ’60s. Kane was one of those artists who I’d buy any book [he drew], no matter what the characters… obviously, that still holds true today. To me, Kane was the natural heir of Burne Hogarth, and so it made sense he would work on the Tarzan strip. Yet, in my mind, his best work was on another half-naked barbarian, Conan — specifically, Conan the King of the “Hour of the Dragon” adaptation realized in Giant-Size Conan the Barbarian #1–4. As a fan-those four issues drawn by Gil (and rapturously inked by Tom Sutton), they remain one of my greatest comics joys of that or any era. One of my greatest disappointments was that Kane never had the opportunity to finish it the way it should have been finished. It could’ve been his magnum opus — the great graphic novel (pulp-based for sure) he’d been striving for. If I had any disappointment in CBC #11, it was in the omission of that body of work in this otherwise engaging and comprehensive discussion. I’m betting you’re as much a fan of those books as I and I would’ve liked to have heard any backstory you might be privy, as well as your own thoughts on the work. That said, thanks so much for your hard work on what was obviously a labor of love. The love shows through every page.

Richard Arndt Just finished the first draft of your Gil Kane book, a.k.a. CBC #11, and it’s great stuff! Very thorough and well-written. I hope you do get a book contract for this. Abrams, who did such a nice job with The Art of the Simon and Kirby Studio, would be a place to start looking, I think, particularly if you can arrange with the Kane estate to print the entire Jason Drum material as a centerpiece for the book itself. Gil Kane’s history and that story together would make a hell of a book! #14 • Winter 2017 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Finally finished digesting CBC #11 and it was good reading all around. The Herb Trimpe remembrance was excellent. Always liked his Hulk and Godzilla books. His style was rather simple, but he was a born storyteller. I was especially interested in the Gil Kane portion of the issue, being a Gil Kane fan from back in the 1950s. It’s funny how, as a young reader, I quickly began to pick out certain artists I enjoyed. Curt Swan, Dick Sprang, Wayne Boring, Jack Kirby, and, of course, Gil Kane. His work on Strange Adventures, Mystery in Space, Rex the Wonder Dog, and the DC Western comics always intrigued me. Then, of course, I later became a bigger fan when he drew Green Lantern, The Atom, and a long string of various super-hero titles and other comics. To this day, I remember coming across Western Comics #77 [Oct. 1959], with a Kane cover and the introduction of “Matt Savage, Trail Boss.” Matt Savage looked just like John Wayne. Matt continued to look like Wayne under Gil’s pencil through to the end of the series, with #85 [Feb. ’61]. I didn’t realize until years later than he also drew some John Wayne comic book stories earlier in his career. Possibly a double nod to the popular movie star. The photo of the 1969 Comic Art Convention banquet in New York City brings back memories. I have that identical photo, which Bill Schelly used for his first Comics Fandom book. Hal Foster (sitting to Gil’s left in the photo) was the special guest of honor at the convention and Gil introduced him with a short, but I thought, brilliant speech. Just prior to the banquet, I was standing next to the elevator that went up to the banquet room. When they said we could go up, I was the first on. Some convention folks brought Gil and Hal to the elevator and would not let anyone else on. I got to ride up with these two great artists. I know I mumbled something to Hal Foster and he signed a Prince Valiant book I had brought. I also mumbled something equally incoherent to Gil. Many years later, I was at Orlando Con with friends Alan Hutchinson and Rick

Davidson. We were walking around the artists’ room, trying to avoid the long lines for the new Image artists, when one of us spotted a man sitting all alone. “That’s Gil Kane.” We looked at each other and went over. He was sketching something and we introduced ourselves. Rick had a history of DC book we had been getting all the DC editors, artists, and writers to sign over the years and needed Kane’s signature. A few years earlier, at a previous Orlando Con, I bought a full page of Rex the Wonder Dog that Kane had penciled and inked for [Who’s Who in the DC Universe]. Gil smiled and looked at the page before signing it and shook his head. “I loved that pen I inked this with. I wish I could find another just like it,” he said. I told him I loved the Rex series and he said he did, too. I’ll never forget that scene of one of the greatest comic book artists sitting ignored and all alone, while hundreds of fans buzzed around new “hot” artists who couldn’t carry his briefcase. It was sad, but I hope our fawning over his work for the twenty to thirty minutes we talked to him was a plus.

Bud Plant I thought I would share my raves about your Gil Kane piece, just added this to my already-full issue description: I can’t recommend the Comic Book Creator article enough. I’m really enjoying it. Editor Jon Cooke pulled out all the stops with quotes from other artists and insider information. It’s like a book-length and book-quality biography—in a $8.95 magazine! [Yowza! Thanks, Bud! Mr. Plant gave CBC #11 his infrequently bestowed “Highest Recommendation” rating. Very grateful for your support over the years! Next up, onetime Kane assistant and top-notch comics creator makes reference to a footnote about Kane’s boyhood address.— Y.E.]

Howard V. Chaykin Very nice job with the book. For the record, never Gilbert. And I got the “420 Saratoga Ave.” from Gil himself.

Richard Corben I received the finished book and it looks great! A very thorough job.

Bill Schelly Not that there aren’t other things of interest in the latest Comic Book Creator, but the issue will doubtless be remembered for your sterling biography of Gil Kane. Very informative, historically accurate, balanced and perceptive — in short, just an excellent job! In fact, it really ought to be expanded and published in book form some day. Congratulations! Well done!

Wrightson strip © Bernie Wrightson. Batman, Superman TM & © DC Comics. MLJ characters TM & © Archie Comics Publications, Inc.

Arlen Schumer Hey, just got the Kane issue of CBC; you did an unbelievably great job on this! Your blood, sweat, and tears of joy drip from every page, down to the beautiful coda about the vertical book idea! Great idea. Do it! And, of course, I was honored to be quoted at the end, there, from the Kane intro in my Silver Age book! Bravo, Jon; Kane would be indeed proud of you, “m’boy!”

Allen Smith I just finished the very fine article on Gil Kane in this issue, and was touched by it. It’s a thorough, well done (well, except for the occasional typo!) examination of the man and the work. I will keep this issue as a reference tool and remembrance of one of the greatest comics artists of all time. The article, more like a book, really, covers a lot of history and gives us Gil’s background, personal history, and approach to his art. I can give no higher praise than to say, again, well done!

Jean-Daniel Brèque Many, many thanks for CBC COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2017 • #14

#11. What with The Comics Journal interviews, the books by Daniel Herman, and such, I thought I knew everything I needed to know about Gil Kane, but you proved me wrong. You did a wonderful job, and brought to life one of my favorite artists and entrepreneurs. You say you wanted to produce a book about him, and I consider this issue as a rough draft. Please do write the book, with the insight you demonstrated here, plus more testimonies, more examples of Kane’s genius — the works. And I agree with you: “The Valley of the Worm” is one of his (many) masterpieces. I still cling to my battered copy of Supernatural Thrillers (and I liked Ernie Chan [Chua]’s inking). The Robert Browning quote was icing on the cake. In my (modest) creative endeavors, Gil Kane has always been, and will always be, a beacon. Once again, many thanks.

Hugh Surratt I’ve been away for a week and a half, but amongst the bills and junk mail in my box when I got home last night was your Gil Kane CBC. I’m excited to dig into it! It’s massive! By the way, I really enjoyed your Warp magnum opus. It brought back memories of when I was doing the concerts at Michigan State in the ’70s. Things were just so much…looser… back then. Really good stuff.

Above: As mentioned in the “One Last Thing” postscript in CBC #11, Ye Ed’s neighbors, the Southwick boys, would, back in the day, tease yours truly about my advocacy for the outstanding art of one Mr. Gil Kane. They would disparage the great artist’s predilection to draw “up the nostrils” closeups during his early ’70s heyday. Though, by the mid-’70s, Gil would abandon that admittingly over-used trope soon enough, the lads still won’t put their mocking to rest apparently, as evidenced by this photo of (from left) Gary, Glenn, and David, with all three using Scotch tape to emphasize their Kane-esque noses! Inset left: Reader Geoff Grogan thought omitting any discussion of Gil Kane’s Giant-Size Conan work was a glaring error in CBC #11. Below: Yours truly is current producing an exhaustive history of R. Crumb’s Weirdo magazine, to be published by Last Gasp Books by year’s end. Look for it!

Darcy Sullivan I was excited to see the new Comic Book Creator at the TwoMorrows stand at WonderCon. Your careerspanning article is the best ever on Gil Kane, my favorite Silver Age artist. In the 1970s, when kids and teens like me would talk about our favorite artist, Neal Adams was usually top of the 13

a ghost story

The Trouble with Bob

Though professing to be sole producer of Batman, Bob Kane had much “ghostly” help by WILL MURRAY

Below: Given Bob Kane’s predilection to sign work that was not made by his hand, it’s unknown whether the Batman co-creator was the true artist behind this painting, a pastiche of the immortal Detective Comics #31 [Sept. 1939] cover. Whatever the provenance, Kane is credited on this image used as one of a set of five lithograph produced in 1978.

Above: Cover for Otto Binder: The Life and Work of a Comic Book and Science Fiction Visionary by Bill Schelly. Published by North Atlantic Books, the biography features a forward by Richard A. Lupoff.

#14 • Winter 2017 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Batman, Detective Comics TM & © DC Comics.

Bob Kane would have turned 100 on October 24, 2015. A solid century after the self-proclaimed creator of Batman was born, he is remembered today as two entirely different personalities. There is the celebrated Bob Kane who created Batman. Period. Then there is the Bob Kane who co-created Batman with writer Bill Finger, and who early on all but bowed out of drawing his own creation, leaving the task to a small army ghost artists, as well as other writers. It has been fashionable these days to minimize Bob Kane’s contributions to his own character, and elevate writer Bill Finger to the status of the true creator. Kane himself made self-serving statements during his life that he was the main originator of the Guardian of Gotham City have helped to relegate his seminal role to that of mere observer or enabler status for more talented people.

The truth behind Bob Kane is more complex than that. Batman began when Detective Comics editor Vincent Sullivan asked Kane for a strip similar to “Superman” in late 1938 or early 1939. “I was at DC Comics doing fill-ins for an editor named Vincent Sullivan,” recalled Kane. “I was doing slapstick comics, funny drawings like Mutt and Jeff, rather than the illustrative type. Superman was born, and the year of 1938 is historic. The character changed the whole complexion of the comic-book industry at that time. In January 1939, we were speaking and Vince said, ‘Do you think you could come up with another super-hero?” I had shown him sketches of Flash Gordon that I copied. I was a very good copycat. Although I preferred the comic slapstick stuff, I was able to do the illustrative type if I wanted to. “So, I said, ‘Of course, Vince. How much are they making a week?’ I think they were making $800 apiece and I was making $35 or $40 a week. I said if I can come up with a super-hero and make their kind of money, I sure will! He wasn’t looking for another Superman. He was looking for another super-hero. He said not to copy it, but to emulate it. I took the figure of Superman and started putting tracings over it. First, I called him Bird-Man. He had bird wings.” Comic book history might today remember Bob Kane as the creator of an early version of Hawkman, but the artist recalled a film he had seen, The Bat Whispers. “The story was about a lot of murders in an old mansion,” admitted Kane. “I remember shadowy-like figures on the wall when he was about to kill someone. They caught up with him in the attic––he wore a costume that looked a little like my early Batman’s, with gloves, a mask, and scalloped wings. He looked like a bat––very ominous.” Over a weekend, Kane toiled on what he dubbed “The Bat-Man,” tracing an Alex Raymond Flash Gordon pose and noodling it. He called in a friend, Bill Finger, who had aspirations to become a writer. “So, I came up with a very crude drawing. Bill came over on a Sunday and he looked at the sketch. It had bat wings attached to the shoulders to look like a bat. Of course, that would inhibit him in his actions during fighting scenes. So, we rearranged it so that it would become more of a cape and swoop about like wings and flight when he’s was swinging on a rope. “I knew that of that should be dark and I had a black mask on him. But I think I might have had a red union suit instead of the gray one. The initial colors were not the colors that finally emerged. They were much brighter. Bill told me to subdue them. I got it down pretty much the way you see it on the Detective Comics [#27, May 1939] cover.”

Finger’s recollections closely match Kane’s: “He had an idea for a character called Batman, and he’d like me to see the drawings. I went over to Kane’s, and he had drawn a character who looked very much like Superman with kind of… reddish tights, I believe, with boots… no gloves, no gauntlets… with a small domino mask, swinging on a rope. He had two stiff wings sticking out, looking like bat wings. And under it was a big sign… Batman.“I got Webster’s Dictionary down off the shelf and was hoping they would have a drawing of a bat, and sure enough they did. I said, ‘Notice the ears, why don’t we duplicate the ears?’ I suggested he draw what looked like a cowl. He experimented with various cowls. I suggested he bring the cowl nose-piece down and make him mysterious and not show any eyes at all. I was very much influenced by The Shadow and Doc Savage, the Phantom, things of that sort.” Finger did not mean Lee Falk’s Phantom, but the hero of The Phantom Detective pulp magazine. The January 1939 issue, probably not by coincidence, pitted the Phantom against a cloaked and masked villain calling himself the Bat. In later years, Falk himself singled out Batman as a blatant imitation of his pioneering costumed hero. “The Phantom started in New York, in 1936, in the Journal American. These guys all read it, and within ten years they had started direct copies, and they gradually developed their own things. And then others copied them, and then the whole super-hero school began. Batman was an imitation of the Phantom. The Batcave versus the Skull Cave. It was a direct imitation. The Shadow was the rich playboy, and Batman took that direction. He is a playboy, you see. He could not have copied the character of the Phantom more closely than if he had taken it out and pasted it in his strip, I think.” While Kane and Finger freely admitted that they were most influenced by The Shadow, it was not until long after their passing that the truth came out. For the Batman’s debut, “Case of the Chemical Syndicate,” both men ransacked the November 1, 1936, issue of The Shadow, featuring “Partners of Peril.” Finger compressed the novel into six pages. Nor was Kane ignorant of that fact. His art, normally full of swipes from Alex Raymond and elsewhere, also copied one of Tom Lovell’s Shadow interior illustrations! “My first script was a take-off of a Shadow story,” Finger admitted. Detective Comics #27 featured the strange character’s debut. A month later, the Thrilling pulp chain released a COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2017 • #14

new masked and cloaked hero called the Black Bat, who looked uncannily like Batman’s cousin, and a lawsuit was avoided through the intercession of Whitney Ellsworth, who had worked for both companies. It was agreed that the Black Bat would stay in the pulps and Batman would never leave the four-color realm. But Kane and Finger were not above purloining the Black Bat’s finned gauntlets for their Gothic hero. Similar gloves soon appeared on Batman. “They stole our character, so we stole their gloves,” insisted Finger.

Above: Bob Kane during the Batman TV era posing with a painting of the Dynamic Duo that was quite likely not painted by the man. Below: Among the influences that spawned Batman were pulp crimefighters The Shadow and Black Book Detective’s Black Bat.

Batman was an instant hit, and Kane realized he needed help, inasmuch as he had been working in the big-foot cartoon style up until then. Sheldon Moldoff was the first ghost Kane hired for Batman. A fellow Bronx resident, Moldoff was only 16 when they began working together. Initially, Shelly did backgrounds and lettering, starting with the second Batman story. 19

the telgemeier allure

Raina’s Smiling Army Eti Berland examines the appeal of Raina Telgemeier’s popular graphic novels by ETI BERLAND

A Huge Thank You!

Eti Berland extends her appreciation to all who contributed to this article, including Raina Telgemeier, Rebecca Oxley, Michael Gianfrancesco, Laura Given, Carol Tilley, Jennifer Billingsley, Ronell Whitaker, Scott Robins, Elisa Gall, Tom Spicer, and Alice Son.

Inset: Raina and just some of her young, enthusiastic fans.

Below: Portrait of the graphic novelist herself, Raina Telgemeier, taken by Kendall Whitehouse at the 2016 Comic-Con International: San Diego.

explains Laura Given, a K–8 library media specialist from Minnesota. “The palette is bright with light colors. Many of the shadows in Smile are done with a darker color block and not hatching, which makes the pages feel more open and light.” Carol Tilley, comics scholar and professor at the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana, points out, “Her use of bold, flat colors, along with a nearly iconic representational style, draw in readers. All together it’s an enticing, comforting, and delicious bowl of comics mac-and-cheese.” Telgemeier’s superior attention to detail supports an immersive reading experience. She creates entire worlds within her stories that captivate readers’ senses. “The beauty of the Raina-verse is that the works are all so cohesive,” says Jennifer Billingsley, a librarian at Lake County Public Library District, in Indiana. “Even when she jumps from autobiography to fiction, the difference in narrator’s perspective is not jarring. Readers get the same feel from her works, so if they like the first one, they will keep coming back for more.” Comics open doors for young people to the joy of reading since the blend of text and images support their literacy skills. When Ronell Whitaker, a high school English teacher at Eisenhower High School, in Chicago, asked his students to rate Smile, they responded with, “I liked the drawing style,” or “It was funny,” or “That was real, Mr. Whitaker,” or his favorite response, “I knew I could finish it.” This last comment made the biggest impression on Whitaker, who works primarily with at-risk freshmen. “So many of my kids are intimidated by reading, “ he explained, “and I love that Smile put them at ease almost immediately.” Whitaker adds, “I sometimes come across readers, young and adult, who are reluctant to try comics. Telgemeier’s work does a great job of breaking down those barriers because her characters are approachable, her style is not overly complex, and the self-contained novels she writes don’t require a ton of knowledge about backstory.” Readers of all shapes, sizes, and ability levels enjoy Telgemeier’s stories. Scott Robins, a children’s librarian at Don Mills Branch of the Toronto Public Library, shares, “I’ve had discussions with parents about Raina’s work and how much they appreciate it as well, and how much they love how her books have inspired their children to read — boys, girls, strong readers, and reluctant readers. It just goes to show the wide appeal her books possess.” #14 • Winter 2017 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

In a cavernous theater packed to the gills with young people and their families, excitement is mounting as the horde eagerly awaits the appearance of the guest of honor. Since the author event was first announced, they have been counting down to this very moment. And they have arrived prepared; some even go as far as cosplaying characters, bringing handcrafted fan art, and of course, carrying multiple copies of books to get signed. So, when graphic novelist phenom Raina Telgemeier takes the stage, her ardent fans cheer with wild abandon, their love for their favorite author knowing no bounds. During the next hour, Telgemeier shares an unforgettable program of interactive readers’ theater, behind-thescenes stories, and an audience Q&A that allows fans a chance to ask their most pressing queries. She then manages the vast signing line with grace and aplomb, engaging with each reader who tries to express why her books mean so much to them. With eyes aglow of wonder and glee, they declare that they are her biggest fans. But what inspires Telgemeier’s army of young aficionados who are each obsessed with her graphic novels and comics, re-reading them repeatedly until the pages are frayed and the binding is worn (a sure sign of true love)! What are the elements of Telgemeier’s stories that encourage continued and new readership and intense loyalty? And what provokes passionate librarians and educators to integrate Telgemeier’s work into their collections and classrooms, and advocate for the importance of her comics in young readers’ lives? This throng of fans is legion and powerful, and they have a pivotal role in the story of Telgemeier’s great success. Any discussion of Telgemeier’s kid appeal must begin with her exceptional art. Telgemeier uses sophisticated artistic techniques to show deliberate body language, expressive facial expressions, and pitch-perfect dialogue. Rebecca Oxley, a teacher-librarian in Prince George’s County Public Schools, in Maryland, shares, “Stylistically, her character design is appealing and approachable; her linework is elegant and expressive.” Young readers are drawn to her visual storytelling that allows them to read the pictures. “The style is inviting — especially to new comics readers,”

In a variation of that old adage, give a child Smile and they’ll read graphic novels for the rest of their life. Elisa Gall, a lower school librarian at the Latin School of Chicago, emphasizes the importance of Telgemeier’s work to the development of young readers’ understanding of visual texts. “For many kids, Smile bridges the gap between their perception of short picture books and longer forms of visual rhetoric,” Gall explains. “Experiencing one of her graphic novels for the first time tells them that reading pictures is a life-long thing and isn’t something one leaves behind in second grade.” As young readers age, they can find stories by Telgemeier that connect to the emotional truths of each milestone in their journey. By telling her own stories, she shows a vulnerability that feels authentic and relatable, which, as Scott Robins sees it, “Creates a real intimacy between reader and writer that kids rarely get with reading other books.” Everyday real-life stories of childhood, from the horrors to the glories, are presented as valuable and worthy of being told. “It’s a formative time of life where kids are just starting to really discover who they are, who they want to be, and what’s important to them,” says Rebecca Oxley. “The reader can identify with moments in Raina’s life while experiencing the excitement of someone else’s story.” Laura Given adds, “Raina (the character) feels like a real, flawed and likable kid. She feels like a friend.” Telgemeier conveys not only what happened to her, but how she felt at the time, as Tom Spicer, teen services supervisor at Arlington Heights Memorial Library, in Illinois, points out. “Her effectiveness at portraying exactly how she felt when she was that age is very powerful.” Children need that sense of validation and respect, where stories serve as windows and mirrors in their lives. Alice Son, a teen librarian at Arlington Heights Memorial Library, asks, “Remember when the most important thing in your life was whether or not your crush liked you back? It consumed you! But for teens who are living it, the failures, embarrassments, and victories of these characters are felt with a greater intensity because, for them, the panels are a mirror to their lives.” Telgemeier’s stories resonate with readers, encouraging empathy for others and a deeper understanding of one’s own experiences. By creating stories that are rich in unique details, they become universal in appeal. “She has found the pulse of adolescents,” asserts Michael Gianfrancesco, a teacher at Rhode Island’s North Providence High School and co-host of the League of Extra-Nerdy Parents podcast. “When a kid picks up one of her books, they see some part of themselves in the characters COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2017 • #14

she presents.” In Smile, young Raina’s mother explains that “lots of kids wear funny stuff to help fix their bodies… You probably don’t realize it because no one talks about it.” Frustrated, Raina yells, “Well, maybe someone should start talking it!!” And then she thinks to herself, “Maybe it would make us feel less like freaks.” This exchange captures the ethos of Telgemeier’s work as she sheds light on painful moments and awkward incidents with humor and sincerity. The accessibility of her stories, both in format and content, lets young readers know they are not alone as they struggle with the dramas of adolescence. As a creator of stories that provide authentic portraits of adolescent lives, Telgemeier has been highly regarded for her inclusion of diverse characters in her graphic novels. Educators are particularly appreciative of her portrayal of queer characters in Drama, a story set in middle school, which reflects the realities of adolescent development. When Drama was listed as number 10 on the American Library Association’s list of frequently challenged books, librarians rallied to support it, writing articles and taking to social media to protect young people’s right to read. Rebecca Oxley argues, “Raina’s earnest portrayal of life as a kid has drawn light upon comics as an influential agent for diversity. To me, the fact that Drama made this year’s ‘ALA Top 10 Banned/Challenged Books’ is just further proof that Raina’s comics have made a major and lasting impact as a whole and get people talking.” Telgemeier is aware of her audience, the range of their experiences and backgrounds, and responds in kind in her stories. Oxley shares a powerful story that illustrates this fact. “I did a read-aloud of Dave Roman and Raina Telgemeier’s story ‘The Rainy Day Monitor,’ from Comics Squad: Recess, to grades first through third grade using a document camera,” she explains. “One of my Muslim students exclaimed, “Look, Mrs. Oxley! She has a headscarf just like me!” Raina’s decision to depict diversity in her work helps kids to see themselves in her stories.” Telgemeier’s books appeal to all kinds of readers, including readers, as Laura Given puts it, “who are not normally drawn in by fantasy, super-hero, and adventure stories,” but who enjoy contemporary realistic fiction and memoir. In an industry that has often been dominated by male creators

This page: Raina Telgemeier is that rare bird in the world of graphic novels: a popular as well as critical favorite, and her books have earned her a legion of fans, both young and old (though, admittingly, mostly young). Smile (A Dental Drama), her autobiographical story of Raina’s middle school and high school years was followed up with a sequel, Sisters. Both books earned the cartoonist Eisner Awards, as well as innumerable other accolades in the publishing world. In May of 2015, four of her efforts took the top spots on the New York Times “Best Selling Paperback Graphic Books” list, an unprecedented achievement. As seen below, the artist/writer has also produced a number of Babysitters Club graphic novels, published by Scholastic Books.

“Don’t let us be mild or drab. Malevolence and terror, the glare of evil faces, ‘the stony grin of unearthly malice,’ pursing forms in darkness, and ‘longdrawn distant screams’ are all in place, and so is a modicum of blood, shed with deliberation...” — from a 1929 essay by M.R. James, ghost story writer of yore.

Interview Conducted by Peter Quinones Transcription by Steven Thompson & Peter Quinones 32

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It’s almost as if James were describing a vampire Batman story from his Eton township grave. Montague Rhodes James is considered the finest writer of ghost stories by everybody from H.P. Lovecraft to Stephen King. He is also Kelley Jones’ favorite writer of horror. I won’t indulge in a scholarly essay of comparing and contrasting the M.R. Jamesian influence on Mr. Jones, but just know that Kelley is a great student of horror literature. While Kelley’s talents are mostly in the visual arts, and he has steeped himself in the work a diverse group that includes medieval and Renaissance painters and pop culture artists like Kirby, Wrightson, and Frazetta; countless hours watching and dissecting Universal and Hammer horror movies, Kelley knows the primacy of pure imagination, on what can be learned from the great masters of horror stories, and the way to create dread and fever dreams by combining the words on the page with the reader’s conjuring mind. It’s the book-is-always-better-than-the-movie phenomenon. And besides M.R. James being a horror writer, he was also a preeminent medieval scholar. He translated a number of apocryphal tales (stories that didn’t make it into the mainstream Bible), and Kelley shares this love for the whispered, clearly meant-to-beforgotten tales from the spectral side of human nature. The skeletal Deadman and the Elseworlds Vampire Batman stories are examples that work outside the established super-hero canon and are yet connected. But while James led a cloistered, scholarly, bachelorhood of a life, Kelley leads a normal existence in the suburbs: married and with two teen-aged boys. He loved being his sons’ Little League coach (Kelley is a big baseball fan), going on family trips to the coast,

A career-spanning chat with the renowned artist about movies, music, weird fiction… and, oh yes, comics! and supporting his wife in her career. And if you ever spend any amount of time with him during a rare convention appearance or signing, you will be delighted with his quick wit and humor. Don’t let his penchant for dark tales fool you: Kelley is one of those naturally gifted humorists. He is flat-out funny, and is able to laugh at himself. When you meet him, ask him to tell you the “Elton John Greatest Hits” story. It will embarrass him and amuse you. One of the things I had been missing over the years, as paths started to diverge — the marriages, the mortgages, the careers, priorities being shifted — was the camaraderie of our comic book group. Besides an occasional meeting at a local Sacramento convention, or a signing at a comic shop, I hadn’t really spent much time talking with Kelley in the last 20 years. Before that though, there was a group of wanna-be artists who would meet at the Comics & Comix in the Birdcage Walk Mall and become tight friends. The shared love of comics, movies, science fiction, and fantasy created an instant bond for that small band of geeks that aspired to work in the field of comics. Kelley was first among the crew, in the mid-’80s, to break into the professional ranks when he got an inking gig on Marvel’s Micronauts. We were all envious, but not surprised. When we gathered at Kelley’s house back then (and every house he’s moved to since), our friend was always perched at his drawing board. I never saw him sit at a couch or a kitchen table. He always had a pencil or brush in hand, and there was always a drawing in progress as we visited and talked about Frank Frazetta or Christopher Lee or John Byrne or Howard Phillips Lovecraft. Previous page: Kelley Jones, expressing solidarity with Charlie Hebdo, Jan. 2015. Details from Batman #515 and Swamp Thing #1. This page: Details from Batman Unseen and Deadman: Love After Death. COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Winter 2017 • #14

on the Swamp Thing mini-series, and then a wrap-up session in this past January. Eight-plus hours of interview and several hours more of just shooting the breeze. . . I didn’t get to cover all of the books and characters that Kelley had worked on, since those pages stretch into the thousands by now. There was a span of years I had stopped reading and collecting comics, except for occasional storylines. So I missed some of Kelley’s work, because he never stopped creating. And I’ll be honest, as a fan of Neal Adams version of Deadman, I did not like Kelley’s rendition, so I didn’t pick it up back then. But preparing for this interview, and going back to reading the books, including all the Deadman, I see the genius in Kelley’s artistic vision, how its atmosphere fits perfectly the tone of the story. There’s a concept in art called the Shock of the New when you see something that you’ve always taken for granted, such as the traditional nude figure in painting, and then it becomes something else in the cubist brush of Picasso (Les Demoiselles d’Avignon, 1907): planes, angles and distortions. It’s shocking. It’s new... like Kelley’s decayed Deadman or Batman’s exaggerated ears and expressionistic cape. But Kelley will tell you it’s no big deal, that I’m reading too much into his stuff. If he’s going to sit there all day, he wants to enjoy himself, to have fun. So read the interview and find out what is fun, monstrous fun, to one of the premier horror artists of the day. -- Peter Quinones

Peter Quinones: Let’s start with some background. Where are you from, Kelley? Kelley Jones: I was born in Sacramento and have lived my whole life in California’s capitol. I’ve never had the desire to leave Sacramento. Pretty boring. I’ve traveled a lot, but that only made me like it here more. I really began to appreciate the area. It’s not like I’ll never leave; it’s just that traveling gives you something to compare, and you realize it isn’t bad here. We’re close enough to everything and yet far enough from everything. It’s a good place to grow up. Peter: Were you an only child? Kelley: No, I have an older brother and he’s probably the one who got me into comics, because he had a class in junior high, and if you were done with your work, the teacher would let you read what you want. And, in this class, they had an old box of mostly old Marvel comics, old back then so major collector’s items now. For whatever reason, they didn’t want them anymore, and they

told him to take them home. He wasn’t really into comics, though, so he threw the box into my room and I fell in love at that moment. Peter: Is this when you first picked up a pencil? Kelley: No. I was always drawing something. Even when I was really, really little, they said I was always drawing, so I don’t really know how old I was. The things I remember drawing were telephone poles (who knows why) and then dinosaurs and Frankenstein all the time. Peter: Dinosaurs seems to be a common theme with comic book artists. Kelley: I guess. For me, it’s probably because my dad took to me to go see those kinds of movies as a kid. He liked those movies, so I saw Ray Harryhausen films, like Valley of the Gwangi, When Dinosaurs Ruled the Earth, One Million Years B.C. Peter: With Raquel Welch…

Top inset: Kelley Jones Batman illustration. Above inset: Fifteen-year-old burgeoning artist Kelley Jones at his brand-new drawing table in a photo from 1977. 34

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We were working on our stuff, too, but Kelley seemed to have more confidence in his skills. He had a knack for drawing, and a single-mindedness and sureness about his craft. He started showing his stuff to editors and other professionals, and the feedback was becoming more praise than pointers. And somehow, that helped us elevate our skills. All of us eventually broke into comics or video games. I was the only writer in the group, and I would give them my chapters-in-progress. Jim Sinclair, Kelley’s best friend, had a long run as the primary inker/finisher on Sam Kieth’s The Maxx. Glenn Johnson took one of my chapters about a royal artist and presented me with four beautifully drawn pages and became my first published comic (Against Blackshard 3-D). I saw those pages at Kelley’s house, which was the nexus, the dry pub gathering place of the group. My first article sales were interviews with Kelley for Comics Scene, Comics Interview, and Amazing Heroes (remember those? If you do, you are showing your gray-haired age.) And Kelley, Jim, and I were co-creators of TerraFormers (Wonder Color Comics, 1986), a big robot sci-fi comic where we spent hours spit-balling ideas, and where I watched in amazement as Kelley penciled awesome pages, and then again when Jim applied his gorgeous inks. And these lead to other connections and friendships with artists in the area, such as Ron Lim. Oh, it was an exciting and splendid time. So maybe now you can imagine my excitement and joy in interviewing Kelley once again, three decades later. We got together in October and November of 2015, as he was working

has been really supportive. Kelley: They are, even though they never understood it. They’re very blue collar. They ran their own business, so they understand working for yourself. But what they did, and I’ve asked them about it, because I don’t think I’d let my kid do what I did back then, they just knew I loved this. My father always said that when other kids drew stuff, they’d have to explain what they were drawing, but he never had to ask, he knew exactly what I was doing. He knew it was different, but he was very permissive in me watching old, scary movies; he just thought it was fine. When my brother got his driver’s license, my dad made it part of his job to drive me to the 7-Eleven to get my comics. Peter: It always comes back to the comics. At this point were you copying panels? Some Kirby action here, some Adams figures there? Kelley: Well, what happened was that I was being influenced by the subject matter, but I didn’t really know how to draw well yet. When you come across Kirby, he’s completely developed. Wrightson, completely developed. I was like a caveman trying to figure out how a flashlight works. So I didn’t try to do that level. What I did, though, was try to work out my own stories in science fiction and horror and just do my best. And the results were bad, but it was fun to do. And enough people around me were impressed by it, just enough so I wasn’t discouraged. I wasn’t the kid who plays the violin and you just want him to stop because the talent isn’t there. But nobody did that to me and so I got better. I got the knack of drawing people pretty quick. The difficult stuff, like the hands, came easy to me. Peter: Did you pick up books on drawing instruction? Like Burne Hogarth’s Dynamic Anatomy? Kelley: No, because those were so well done. I realized that I had to figure this out on my own. I’m not good at something unless I solve the problem myself. And the things I was interested in, those how-to books weren’t addressing, like odd angles, atmosphere, figures blending into one another… I was fascinated by that. But I didn’t have the ability to articulate any of this, or even know the right questions to ask. I just knew what I liked, and where I was seeing it done was in films. Films are where I went for inspira-

Above: Young Kelley Jones became a comics fan upon reading Swamp Thing #2. Below & inset: Ray Harryhausen’s dinosaur movies were an influence on the young artist.

Kelley: Well, back then, she just got in the way to me. And, as sad as this sounds, she still gets in the way! [laughter] I wanted to get to the dinosaurs. I remember being completely knocked out by those movies. So my dad got me the Aurora dinosaur model kits, from the Pterandon to the Allosaurus… all that wonderful stuff. I just started drawing them. So Harryhausen gave me the love for dinosaurs. And, you know, the dinosaurs were monsters. And then I saw Frankenstein, so it was kind of a mix of those things when I started drawing. Peter: When did you start connecting with friends who shared your interest in comics and movies? Kelley: Probably around seventh or eighth grade. I was starting to buy comics and, in those days, there were no comic shops, so it was the 7-Eleven. And it was exciting, because you never knew what was coming out every week. Some people say it was a frustrating time, but I loved it, just happening upon things. And, in some of the 7-Elevens, they’d have comics going way back, that they just kept jammed into the racks. So I would just grab whatever looked good. And I found there were friends of mine who were buying comics, though they weren’t passionate about collecting; they just liked them. Well, I was drawing a lot, all the time, and they started noticing some of my stuff looked like some of the comics, and they started asking me about it, that kind of thing. But I’d say it was mostly with movies that we connected. And then, when we had a comic shop in the neighborhood, that’s where all the comic book Casablanca barflies would end up there. It’s all the same people — “Everyone goes to Rick’s!” [laughter] — so we’d all go, and that’s where I met you, Peter, and everybody else. And it’s interesting, that all the people I knew from school, they all went away almost immediately. But the comic store crowd, I still know most of them. Peter: You were the first person I knew who actually had a drawing board. Do you remember when you first got it? Kelley: I still have it. I mean, I had one first, kind of a hand-me-down from someone my father knew. But when I decided I wanted to do this near the end of high school, that I wanted to draw a lot more, even though I didn’t know it would just be comics, I knew I wanted to draw on a proper board, not a flat surface. So my dad and I went down in his truck and found the kind that you could fold up and carry around. I didn’t want the gigantic architectural thing with all the bells and whistles; just something that would tilt at an angle. I still have it and I’m still working on the same board. Peter: Sounds like your family

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