Issuu

Roy Thomas’ Sub-Aqueous Comics Fanzine

6.95

In the USA

No. 84

March 2009

When

STEVE SKEATES

82658 27763

Took The Silver Age Plunge! Extra! CHARLES SINCLAIR On BILL FINGER PLUS:

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TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Art & History Of LEGO. (& Comics!) TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

Vol. 3, No. 84 / March 2009 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

Circulation Director Bob Brodsky, Cookiesoup Productions

Cover Artist Jim Aparo

Writer/Editorial: Silver Threads Among The Golden . . . . . . . 2 The Silver Skeates . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko

With Special Thanks to: Jack Adler Heidi Amash Michael Ambrose Sal Amendola Bob Bailey Daniel Bianchetta Dominic Bongo Jerry K. Boyd Al Bradford Nick Caputo Pierre Comtois Jon B. Cooke Bob Cosgrove Teresa R. Davidson Brenda Denzler Wendy Doniger Michael Dunne Peter Duxbury The Esalen Institute Mark Evanier Jorge Ferrer Shane Foley Ramona Fradon Joe Frank Ron Frantz Donna Freitas Janet Gilbert Martin L. Greim Lawrence P. Guidry Jennifer Hamerlinck Ron Harris Tom Hegeman Heritage Comics Archives Matt Heuston David Hufford Greg Huneryager

Contents

Robin Kirby Christopher Knowles Jeffrey J. Kripal Joe Latino Paul Levitz Mark Lewis Darrel McCann David McDonnell Bertrand Méheust Brian K. Morris Mark Muller Michael & Dulce Murphy Victoria Nelson Marc Tyler Nobleman Barry Pearl Dean Radin David Roach Bob Rozakis Arlen Schumer Alvin Schwartz John Schwirian Charles Sinclair Steve Skeates Warren Spavin Flo Steinberg Marc Swayze Walter J. Tanner Russell Targ Greg Theakston Dann Thomas Jacque Vallee Jim Vandore Lynn Walker Gregg Whitmore Marv Wolfman Alex Wright

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Will Elder & Tom Fagan

The unique voice and vision of writer Steve Skeates, interviewed by John Schwirian.

“You Two Guys Ought To Do Something Together!” . . . . . . 35 Writer Charles Sinclair tells Jim Amash about his friendship with Batman co-creator Bill Finger.

Esalen And The X-Men . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 Dr. Jeffrey J. Kripal on holding a “superpowers” symposium with Fradon, Thomas, et al.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!: Twice-Told EC! . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 Michael T. Gilbert on the stories Gaines & Feldstein found worth repeating.

Another Clause In The “Will” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 Would you believe it? Still more artwork from the long-lost 1940s JSA adventure!

Comic Fandom Archive: Tom Fagan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 Bill Schelly & Martin L. Greim pay tribute to one of early fandom’s brightest lights.

A Tribute To Will Elder. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 re: [comments, correspondence, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . 74 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #143 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 P.C. Hamerlinck’s roundup this time: Marc Swayze, C.C. Beck, Ron Frantz, & Jerry De Fuccio. On Our Cover: Several major artists have done extensive stints on the “Aquaman” series since its 1941 debut, including especially co-creator Paul Norris, Ramona Fradon, Nick Cardy—and the late Jim Aparo, who drew the final years of the DC sea king’s original solo title. Our thanks to John Schwirian for providing us with a copy of what is almost certainly Aparo’s last Aquaman illustration, done for John in 2002. There could have been, it seems to us, no more fitting art to accompany this issue’s interview by JS with longtime Aparo collaborator Steve Skeates. See it in black-&-white on p. 16. [Aquaman TM & ©2009 DC Comics.] Above: A trio of Teen Titans—Kid Flash, Speedy, and newcomer Mal Duncan—teamed up with Superman in World’s Finest Comics #205 (Sept. 1971), aided and abetted by the art of Dick Dillin (pencils) and Joe Giella (inks). More about the Titans, too, in this issue’s dynamic demi-interview with scripter Steve Skeates. Thanks to Jim Vandore for the scan. [©2009 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 US ($11.00 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $88 US, $140 Canada, $210 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890 FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

Silver Threads Among The Golden A

personal note (but then, this is an editorial, after all):

At both of the comics companies for which I worked during the summer of 1965, I was very much aware of being the second newcomer to enter their doors, at least to work on super-hero material at a staff level, in a decade. At National/DC I was preceded (by roughly a year) as Mort Weisinger’s assistant on the Superman line of comics by the estimable E. Nelson Bridwell, who was ten years older than I was—and at Marvel I found, already ensconced there for a week or two, a guy fresh out of college, who was several years younger than I. Steve Skeates may have forged most of his considerable reputation as a comics writer at other companies with names like Tower, Charlton, Warren, and DC, but that hardly lessens his achievement. He was (is) a singular talent who blazed a new trail, determined to put his own individual stamp on stories and characters—but wasn’t that exactly what comic books needed in the 1960s? Even Stan Lee and Julius Schwartz couldn’t do it all! Likewise, Jim Amash’s interview with TV/movie scribe Charles Sinclair, primarily about his partnership with Batman/Green Lantern cocreator Bill Finger, deals primarily with the same time period, which coincides with the vague outlines of the so-called Silver Age of Comics.

I’m keenly aware that, for a multiplicity of (mostly) good reasons, Alter Ego has tended to concentrate more on the Golden Age than on the Silver, nor is that likely to change greatly in the foreseeable future. At the same time, putting together the first half of John Schwirian’s interview with Steve Skeates (you can read Part II in our companion mag Back Issue #33 in a couple of weeks) has served to remind me that I shouldn’t neglect the likes of ENB himself, nor of Denny O’Neil, Marv Wolfman, Len Wein, Gerry Conway, and a handful of other writers who had entered the industry by 1970—nor, of course, should I ignore the artists who debuted during the same era. If I forget—you guys remind me, okay? Bestest,

P.S: We regret that, due to lack of space, we’ve had to delay Chapter 7 of Bob Rozakis’ “Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.” till next issue.

COMING IN MAY

SHAZAM!, CENTAUR, & LILY RENÉE! A Triptych Of Titans—All In One Blockbuster Issue! • It’s Shazamer against Kryptonian in this powerful new cover by RICH BUCKLER! • Special Double-Size FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) Section! P.C. HAMERLINCK presides over a panorama of Captain Marvel vs. Superman punch-fests—featuring awesome art by BECK, BUCKLER, DILLIN, KANE, KURTZMAN, ORDWAY, SWAN, SWAYZE, WOOD, et al.! • In the Golden Age, LILY RENÉE illustrated “The Werewolf Hunter,” “Tiger Girl,” “Señorita Rio,” and “The Lost World”—but her own life has been more amazing than all those four-color fantasies put together! Hard-hitting interview by JIM AMASH! • At last! The fabled but little-known CENTAUR COMICS GROUP, put under the microscope by LEE BOYETTE! Learn about BILL EVERETT’s Amazing-Man & Skyrocket Steele—LEW GLANZMAN’s The Shark—MARTIN FILCHOCK’s Mighty Man, Fire-Man, & Owl—PAUL GUSTAVSON’s Fantom of the Fair— FRANK THOMAS’ The Eye—and that’s not all! • Plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT (& Mr. Monster’s) Comic Crypt—BILL SCHELLY’s Comic Fandom Archive—BOB ROZAKIS’ “Secret History Of All-American Comics, Inc.”— & MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS ics.]

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The Silver Skeates The Unique Voice And Vision Of STEVE SKEATES In The Silver Age Interview Conducted & Transcribed by John Schwirian

NTERVIEWER’S INTRO: In conjunction with my magazine The Aquaman Chronicles, I began a two-issue review of the Steve Skeates/Jim Aparo/Dick Giordano era of Aquaman by looking at the achievements of scribe Steve Skeates, who not only left a permanent mark on the history of Aquaman, but on the world of comics, with his work on titles ranging from the political The Hawk and The Dove in the late 1960s to the humorous Plop! in the early 1970s and beyond. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Steve’s work from the mid-’70s on will be covered in the second part of this interview, which will appear in our TwoMorrows sister magazine Back Issue #33-34, the first of which will go on sale just a couple of weeks from now.] There is no denying that a Steve Skeates tale has a distinct feel to it— an unusual and offbeat perspective that breaks the standard super-hero mold. But how did he develop that unique voice? What inspired the mind that brought us underwater Westerns and ecological disasters akin to 1950s atomic- and space-born monsters? With some prompting, Steve Skeates clears up the mystery as he tells of his (until now) secret origins….

Steve Skeates & His Pier Group (Above:) Our interviewee reacts to his and Sergio Aragonés’ story “The Poster Plague,” from House of Mystery #202 (May 1972), winning the Shazam Award for “Best Humor Story” of the year, at the 1973 ACBA Awards Banquet. “ACBA” stood for the Academy of Comic Book Arts, an organization of comics professionals that made a few waves during the first half of the ’70s. From The ACBA Newsletter, Vol. I, No. 21 (June 1973), with thanks to Flo Steinberg. (Below left:) Illustration by Matt Heuston for the limited-circulation publication The Official Biography of Comic Book Writer Steve Skeates, produced in 2007 by John Schwirian. The interview serialized in this issue of A/E and in Back Issue #33-34 was done for that edition—and Matt’s “sequel” to this drawing will be seen in the latter mag. [Aquaman & Aqualad, Supergirl, Hawk & Dove, Plastic Man, & Cain and Abel TM & ©2009 DC Comics; Two-Gun Kid & Spider-Ham TM & ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Lightning TM & ©2009 John Carbonaro; Underdog TM & ©2009 Total Television; Dr. Graves & Thane TM & ©2009 the respective copyright holders; Steve Skeates caricature ©2009 Matt Heuston.]

“I More Wanted To Be An Artist… Than A Writer” JOHN SCHWIRIAN: While much has been written about your comic book career, little has been said about your life outside the industry. So let’s start at the beginning: you were born Stephen Lewis Skeates in a small town in western New York on January 29, 1943. But what was life like in your childhood? STEVE SKEATES: I spent my formative years near the small town of Bushnell’s Basin, where my father, an heir to the Xerox empire, owned a sporting goods store and my mother held down the position of housewife. I grew up in an area almost exactly between Bushnell’s Basin and Fairport, New York, in an area known in the 1800s as Fullam’s Basin, one of the places where travelers on the Erie Canal would get off the boat and onto a stage for the last leg of their trip to Rochester and nearby stopping points. This was an area that had (as a matter of fact) lain pretty much dormant since the late 1800s when canal and stagecoach travel starting becoming a thing of the past, with (all of a sudden!) a spurt of housing construction occurring in the late ’40s and early ’50s, right when I was a kid, so there were lots of half-built suburban houses to play around in, and lots of dirt piles from recently-dug basements providing ammo for almost daily dirt-ball fights with the other kids in the neighborhood! Sophisticated stuff like that! As a kid, I was also very into the early days of television, and living in the Rochester area was indeed great along those lines! I don’t know how things worked in other cities, but around here one of the two Rochester TV stations back there in the ’50s would borrow movies from the famed Eastman House movie library and show those classics all Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon. I was hooked on that stuff,

The Unique Voice And Vision Of Steve Skeates In The Silver Age

especially the horror movies and most especially the Val Lewton ones, undoubtedly a portion of what got me oriented toward comic book writing!

Cat On A Hot Celluloid Roof Cat People (1942) is one of the most justly celebrated of the relatively subdued “horror films” produced by Val Lewton—though directed, it must be said, by Jacques Tourneur. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

JS: It isn’t hard to see how those early television shows and old movies influenced your writing. Screenplays are typically split into three acts, launching right into the action (act one), filling in the background as the conflict grows (act two), and reaching climax in act three, often leaving the reader with an uneasy resolution that leaves many questions unanswered. Your comic scripts often matched the movie serial or episodic television format. But what about novels? What literature did you read as a boy?

SKEATES: Books I read as a kid? Hey, I was a terrible reader, slow as anything, and like I said, I was totally into early TV. Still, once my age reached double digits, I did start subscribing to the Mad comic book and really loved Harvey Kurtzman’s stuff! Truth be known, it wasn’t until I got into college that I started reading actual novels (for high school English class there had been a lot of Cliff Notes, etc.) and, as for doing so for my own pleasure (except for a smattering of ’50s sci-fi), it was almost exclusively detective fiction—Hammett, Chandler, Spillane, both McDonalds, Rex Stout, et al. JS: If you weren’t a heavy reader as a kid, when did you decide to become a writer? SKEATES: Like a lot of other comic book writers I’ve talked to, I more wanted to be an artist when I was a kid than a writer. Yet (unlike those others), somewhere during high school I got intrigued by mathematics, even entered college as a math major. It wasn’t long, though, before I switched over to being an English major. JS: A math major? That’s certainly a far cry from what you do now. Why math and not art? SKEATES: I gotta admit, since I was rather a math whiz in both Midvale Grade School and Minerva Deland High School, l figured that was my calling, hence my entering Alfred University as a math major. As for the art part—well, actually, I gave up on that quite early, approximately upon leaving grade school. I did not avail myself of any art instruction in high school, mainly because by then I was far more into writing than artwork. Thing is, what I wanted to write was humor—my heroes being Benchley, Thurber, Perelman, Sullivan, and even the earlier Bill Nye, the one that wasn’t a science guy! Yet, by the late ’50s/early ’60s, humor writing was rather a thing of the past. It may have still been going on, but there obviously certainly wasn’t any money in it anymore. Thanks to first radio and then dealt an even heavier blow by television, it had been supplanted by comedy—and what I wanted to do was written word stuff, not material to be spoken or acted out! A further reason why I chose to orient myself toward math! (There was also the fact that some of my favorite writers had written merely in their spare time, whereas their real jobs were in the field of mathematics!)

In any event, college-wise I did all right in math my first semester, but in my second semester I came close enough to failing myself out of the math program that I decided to voluntarily pull myself out of it before I did flunk and try instead to aim for my real love, writing, even though I still had my doubts as to there being any money in that endeavor, especially in my doing it the way I wanted to. I wrote a lot of articles for the college newspaper, many of them with a supposedly humorous slant, and ultimately wrote my own weekly column and became the feature editor. Because of all that, I even talked someone or other (can’t remember exactly whom) into letting me do a weekly 15-minute radio program—not on the college station, since the college didn’t have a station back then, but on the local town station.

“Those Mid-’60s Marvel Comics Influenced Me In A Big Way” JS: Which is about the same time you first discovered comic books? SKEATES: I first became cognizant of comic books in college when I wrote my first play. Part of that year, I worked writing snappy patter for a folk-singing group. It was around that same time that I wrote my first play; friends who read it told me it sounded more like a comic book story than a theatre piece. Thus I first developed my urge to become a comic book writer. (The play, incidentally, won second prize at the gala South Western New York State Drama Festival.) Years later, a certain editor, who shall remain nameless, tried to be nice about refusing to buy any more of my stuff. He used to say, “You’re a good writer, Steve. But I don’t think you’re right for comics. Have you ever thought of becoming a playwright?” JS: So comic books fueled your desire to be a humorist? SKEATES: You better believe that those mid-’60s Marvel comics influenced me in a big way; Stan was putting just enough humor into those stories (especially Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four, even though the more dour “Iron Man” was indeed my favorite) for me to feel that, even though there no longer seemed to be any jobs extant for humorists, here was something I could indeed write. Being about to graduate from Alfred, I immediately wrote to what I figured were the four major comic book companies in the country and wound up getting a phone call from none other than Stan Lee himself, who offered me a job as assistant editor. The rest is legend! JS: So you actually went straight from college to the big time at Marvel? Was it a case of instant success, or were there still lean years to struggle through? SKEATES: Lean years? Yes, there were a few, but then again too few to men—Wait a minute! Wait a minute! That’s a song lyric (or at least a variation thereupon), whereas what I wanted to emphasize here was my youth and resilience. Yet perhaps first of all I should reach further back and into my quasi-rural youth—that four-room schoolhouse I attended, the house my father and my uncle built back in 1946 (a beautiful old place where my mother still lives), and the road out front, now a veritable super-highway and the easiest way to get to one of the largest shopping malls in the world, while back in the day it was so seldom-traveled that my dog used to safely lie around all day out in the middle of it. Back then—in fact, it seems like forever—I wanted to be a writer (although quite a bit of the time I harbored doubts about being able to make a living doing so, hence my early emphasis on math), and furthermore I somehow knew for sure that I was gonna live in New York City—I was totally entranced by the hustle and bustle of urbanity as experienced in nearby Rochester (not all that small a city) and knew positively that New York was gonna be even better, so that’s where I was gonna go! Thus, when I was in high school, and all my friends were

The Silver Skeates

Stan The (Iron) Man Stan Lee holding up a Shazam Award, also at an ACBA Awards ceremony— which may or may not be the 1973 bash. He was, of course, the writer/cocreator of Iron Man, the “dour” super-hero Steve Skeates heralds as his favorite Marvel hero of the era. The Heck/Colletta splash is from Tales of Suspense #69 (Sept. 1965), the issue which would’ve been on sale during the summer, around the time Steve went to work for Stan. Photo courtesy of Sal Amendola, who’s prepared a feature on ACBA that will appear in an early issue of A/E. [Page ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

learning to drive and were getting their licenses, etc., I wanted no part of that, pointing out to everybody (my worried-about-me parents included) that “Hey, I won’t be driving anywhere anyway—I’ll be taking a taxi or the subway!” And what I would be doing there in the big city would be writing, although I of course had no idea back then that I would be doing a sort of writing that required one to live in the city, especially when one was just starting out, yet that’s what comics were like back when I first got immersed in them. JS: Because, back in 1965, all the major publishers were located in New York City. SKEATES: Right. Thus, in a rather big way, I was more prepared for New York City than I was for comics. Had no trouble at all with the New York way of life, figured I was finally where I had always belonged, but comics were another story entirely, seeing as I hadn’t exactly been a fan but merely a reader—hadn’t really tried my hand at producing my own comics nor learned everything I could about comics; I just found reading

Two Guns—Two Splashes— Two Typewriters The Western winner on the near left was plotted by Larry Lieber and dialogued by Steve Skeates, for Two-Gun Kid #80 (March 1966)—while the one on the right, for TGK #81 (May ’66), was plotted by Skeates and scripted by Lieber. By the way, “Bill Roman” was a pseudonym for inker Bill Everett. With thanks to Darrel McCann & Nick Caputo, respectively. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Unique Voice And Vision Of Steve Skeates In The Silver Age

book he was editing was veritably shouting “All institutions are corrupt; it’s the innocent who get stepped on; only the cynical survive!”—it became harder and harder to figure out what buttons to push in order to get Joe interested in a story, seeing as he was apparently pretty much in the dark as to what would make for a worthy Plop! story. The more I think about this, though—finally calming down a bit about the fact that back in the day Joe’s blindness to what I figured were obviously great ideas for stories could be quite intensely maddening— the more I realize that Joe’s inability to hear this voice may actually have been a saving grace. If he had known about it, he may well have pushed that voice too hard, pushed it too far to the forefront, making it louder still, obnoxiously loud. In other words, Joe’s missing the boat may well have worked out to be rather a restraining factor, reining the rest of us in, inadvertently giving the book a well-needed pinch of subtlety that the rest of us (the artists, the writers, etc.) were far, far from being in touch with! See more of John Schwirian’s interview with Steve Skeates in Back Issue #33, on sale a couple of weeks after this issue of Alter Ego!

possible inclusion in Eerie, Creepy, or Vampirella! Once Warren turned it down, seeing it as too much of a humor story and not enough of a horror piece, I next decided to show it to Joe, blissfully unaware at that moment that this was just what Joe was looking for, something he probably would have had his pal John Albano working on had he [Joe] been able to put what he wanted into words, the perfect piece to use as (as you say) a showcase for Sergio! Uh-oh, my often out-of-control ego is even now eager for me to add here an indication of my sincere doubt that Albano could have come up with anything as perfectly fitting as “The Poster Plague” was. Albano, after all, tended to write comedy; whereas I (who, as a rather bookish teenager who practically lived at the local library, simply couldn’t get enough of the wonderful writings of those various early heroes of mine—James Thurber, Wolcott Gibbs, Frank Sullivan, and especially Robert Benchley) was into humor, and that (far, far more than comedy) was what was needed here. JS: Was Plop! finally the vehicle that allowed you to write the types of stories you wanted to write? SKEATES: Hmmm… the sort of stuff this particular correspondent wanted to write—that could be a whole big fat essay in and of itself, rising far above merely the Plop! thing and into the realm of perception vs. reality, of content taking a back seat to form, of the serious neatly wrapped up in a parody package, not to mention (so I won’t) various other bizarre notions. As a matter of fact, though Plop! won me all those awards whilst becoming a truly important comic in that it spoke more clearly than any other graphic publication to the heavy disillusionment, frustration, and cynicism that the good ol’ U.S. of A. was caught up in at that particular moment, I very quickly found this book to be too structured for my taste. As we discussed earlier, I quite preferred working on the Abbott and Costello book where I was given lots more freedom.

(Top left:) In “The City on the Edge of Nowhere” in Aquaman #50 (March-April 1970), Skeates and Aparo depicted the sea sovereign swimming through an underwater forest made up of the names of DC artists, writers, and editors. Steve will talk about many of these—and more!—when this interview continues, in Back Issue #33. Thanks to Mark Muller. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Furthermore, once (like around the second or third issue) Plop! developed its own particular peculiar voice, which Joe somehow never even “heard”—he continued to see the whole thing as some strange and inexplicable combo of humor and horror, missing out on the fact that the

(Above:) The interviewee’s own sketch of himself as the scribe of sea kings— especially of one whose given name is Arthur Curry. For what Steve’s been up to lately, send a buck and a stamp to get two mini-comics and a catalog to: Steve Skeates, 95 Jefferson Avenue, Fairport, NY 14450. Thanks to John Schwirian. [©2009 Steve Skeates.]

Name That Tuna!

“You Two Guys Ought To Do Something Together!” CHARLES SINCLAIR On His Partnership—And Friendship—With BILL FINGER, Co-Creator of Batman Interview Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

ongtime Alter Ego readers know that I never miss an opportunity to discuss Bill Finger, co-creator of Batman (as well as of Green Lantern and Wildcat), with those who had known him. A couple of years back, I was talking to Marc Tyler Nobleman about Batman for an upcoming project he was working on, when the subject came around to Mr. Finger. Marc and I both lamented the fact that our knowledge of this important creator was severely limited. Bill Finger died in 1974, giving very few interviews, leaving us with many unanswered questions.

While talking to Marc, I remembered that Finger had a writing partner named Charles Sinclair, and that he had never, so far as we knew, been interviewed on this subject. Marc subsequently found his phone number, passed it on to me, and we both ended up interviewing Mr. Sinclair for our own projects. One of Marc’s projects deals a lot with Finger, in ways this interview does not, as you can see on his website at www.noblemania.blogspot.com. And my project of course, was for Alter Ego. Now, finally, we have Charles Sinclair to tell us about the human side of the man who died without proper due or recompense for his co-creation of Batman and Robin, as well as the many side-characters and villains who populated their fictional adventures. There is more of Bill Finger‘s story yet to be told… but for now, we gratefully thank Mr. Sinclair for his insights and help in fleshing out the biography of one of the most neglected comic book creators in our history. —Jim.

“We Concocted A Script…” CHARLES SINCLAIR: I met Bill Finger around 1949, ’50. He was a friend of the lady I was then married to. Her name was Coral Nieland. She had been working as a secretary at DC Comics, and got to know Bill there. One time, we had a New Year’s Eve party. I was relatively recent to New York City and didn’t know that many people—she knew a lot of people—so she got most of the invitational lists. Coral Nieland was also a

Batman & Bat-Friends Charles Sinclair in 1966 (above) and Bill Finger (date uncertain, below)—flanking Adam West as Batman and Burt Ward as Robin from the phenomenally popular TV series of the ‘60s. Photo of Sinclair courtesy of the artist, forwarded by Jim Amash & Teresa R. Davidson. [TV still ©2009 DC Comics.]

part-time actress, and had a minor part on the Superman radio show. I think the character was “Ginger Davis,” a copygirl on The Daily Planet. At any rate, she invited Bill Finger, whom I had never previously met, and his wife. They showed up along with Jerry Robinson and the lady to whom he was married—I believe, at that time, a beautiful blonde model named Leslie. Joe Shuster came, too; it was a very pleasant evening. I got along well with Bill Finger and Portia, and with many of Cory’s friends. Bill was living in Manhattan; I think his address was 45 Grove Street, which was right smack in the middle of the Village, just off Seventh Avenue—as Villagey as you could get. He was an interesting and fun person in kind-of a pixyish way, which would kind-of flash out at you, a “Tom, the fun-loving rover” type. I liked his sense of humor and turn of phrase. I had the initial impression he was self-made and self-educated in many ways, and I think that impression proved to be correct.

The Human Potential Movement And Super-Hero Comics

A/E

EDITOR’S PREFACE: From June 1-6, 2008, my wife (and ofttimes collaborator) Dann and I attended a symposium sponsored by the Esalen Institute’s Center for Theory and Research. It was held at that legendary retreat located three hours south of San Francisco on California’s Big Sur peninsula, amid its natural hot springs and breathtaking view of the surging Pacific pounding the rocks beneath the cliffs. Reluctant as we generally are to leave our own little patch of paradise in South Carolina for that long, we found it impossible to turn down Dr. Jeffrey J. Kripal’s generous invitation to be a part of this first-ever Esalen event to deal with comics books and their relation to the sciences and to the human potential movement—a discussion of varying approaches, as it were, to the notion of super-powers.

emerging guest list. Subjects to be covered would include remote viewing, UFO abductions, and various psychical phenomena, but the participants were neither wild-eyed “true believers” nor professional skeptics. These folks had credentials—and we were honored to be included. At the last moment two or three invitees, including current comics writer Grant Morrison, were unable to attend for personal reasons; but the score who were on hand for its several hour-and-a-half presentations each day found it a worthwhile, perhaps even enlightening, experience—in between the relaxing hot springs baths and the full-body massages enjoyed by some, of course. (All work and no play, etc.)

As the time approached, and after helping Jeffrey contact several comicsrelated people he felt might contribute to the gathering, Dann and I were intrigued and impressed by the

What follows is Jeffrey’s account of that symposium, which was officially titled “From the Supernormal to the Superpower.” It was the first but probably not the last of its kind—and if anyone out there ever receives an invitation to such an event, I wholeheartedly recommend that he/she accept at once. —Roy.

Man And Super-Men Jeffrey J. Kripal, chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at Rice University in Houston, Texas, hosted the June 2008 Esalen symposium titled “From the Supernormal to the Superpower.” Above is a photo of Jeffrey (at right) speaking with Roy Thomas and Hall of Fame comic artist Ramona Fradon during a break. Below is the cover of Jeffrey's 2007 book Esalen: America and the Religion of No Religion, about the possibilities of the “supernormal” (the human potential movement was born, or at the very least midwived, at the Esalen Institute)—flanked by the halves of a montage by X-Men co-creator Jack Kirby. The latter show the original five X-Men in two different pencil drawings, as inked by Jerry Bingham and Mike Allred, respectively, for Pure Imagination’s 1994 tome Jack Kirby’s Heroes and Villains. With thanks to Greg Theakston. [Book cover ©2009 University of Chicago Press; photo by Daniel Bianchetta; X-Men TM & ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Esalen And The X-Men The Human Potential Movement And Super-Hero Comics by Jeffrey J. Kripal That such a person actually exists (or existed) seems plausible to me, increasingly so as the discoveries of psychology and physics continue to reveal the intertwinings of mind and the physical world. It is inevitable, I think, that pioneers like this will appear in our midst….

The potential is there, just like Obi-Wan Kenobi said it was. Remote viewer Ingo Swann in Jim Schnabel’s Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies, chapter 19, “Obi Swann”

Michael Murphy in Jacob Atabet, 1977

Introductions

y training and profession, I am a historian of religions, a field that most people would probably better recognize as “comparative religion.” Basically, I study and compare religious systems like other people study and compare cultural systems, political philosophies, novels, or movies. More especially, I read, translate, and interpret mystical literature, that is, texts from around the world that express and enact some fundamental unity, even identity, between divinity and humanity. Put bluntly, I study how human beings come to realize that they are gods in disguise. I thus fancy myself a professional student of the first alter ego.

In the spring of 2007, I published a book on a broad spectrum of American metaphysical traditions called “the human potential movement.” I modeled much of this book on the occult novels of Michael Murphy, who in 1962 co-founded with the late Richard Price (1930-1986) something that soon came to be called the Esalen Institute. Named after a

Native American tribal group (the Esselen) that once populated the same area in Big Sur, California, Esalen quickly became both a countercultural mecca and the original home of the human potential movement. Today, about 10,000 people visit the Big Sur cliff each year for about 400 different seminars and events, ranging from folk music concerts, yoga workshops, and Buddhist meditation practicums, to seminars on greening the economy and invitational conferences on Jewish-Christian-Muslim relations or post-mortem survival (yes, that’s right). Murphy and Price adapted the idea of “human potential” from the British-American writer Aldous Huxley, who had spoken of something he called “human potentialities.” Much indebted to his famous experiments with psychedelics (another key-word which he helped coin), Huxley used the expression “human potentialities” to argue that human consciousness and the human body possess vast untapped resources of Mind and Energy. Consciousness, for example, is not something produced without remainder by the brain in Huxley’s thought. It is something filtered through or received by the brain, much as a television set or radio receives a distant signal that is not really in the box (or the brain). Mind, then, in its true nature is something to capitalize for Huxley. It is essentially transcendent, metaphysical, cosmic.

Yea, Team(s)! The originators—West and East! (Left:) A photo of Richard Price, who’s on our left, and Michael Murphy, founders of Esalen, taken shortly after their first meeting in the fall of 1960. (Right:) Marvel editor/writer Stan Lee and artist/co-plotter Jack Kirby at a 1966 meeting of the National Cartoonists Society. Thanks to Barry Pearl, who says, “It’s easier to find pictures of Joe Sinnott and Jack Kirby together than of Stan and Jack, and Joe and Jack didn’t meet for 20 years!” [Price & Murphy photo by permission of the Esalen Institute.]

Drawing on such altered states and altered words, writers like Murphy would go on to suggest that the human potential includes all sorts of extraordinary powers that are “supernormal,” from psychical abilities like clairvoyance and telepathy to extraordinary physical phenomena like dramatic healings or feats of strength, even in a few rare cases (like Teresa of Avila and Joseph of Copertino) apparent levitation or flight. All of these things, of course, have been exaggerated in religious literature, folklore, and modern fantasy as supernatural but, according to authors like Murphy, they are better understood as foreshadowings or intuitions of the hidden potentials of evolution. Murphy and his colleagues, in other words, believe that evolution has granted at least some human beings extraordinary “superpowers,” and that these have been encoded, if no doubt also exaggerated, in fantasy literature, movies, science fiction, and super-hero comic books. Seen in this light, such pop cultural genres are essentially human potential genres in disguise, genres that “might prefigure luminous knowings and powers that can be realized by the human race,” as Murphy put it in his 1992 magnum opus The Future of the Body.1 1Michael Murphy, The Future of the Body: Explorations Into the Further Evolution of Human Nature (New York: G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1992), 211-213, “Superordinary Powers in Fantasy Literature, Cartoons, Movies, and Science Fiction.”

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The De Fuccio Papers – Part III JERRY DE FUCCIO And The History Of Comics

by Ron Frantz Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

ormer Mad associate editor, the late Jerry De Fuccio, possessed a vast amount of knowledge of the Golden Age of Comics—self-proclaimed “nuggets” of which he would often share in correspondences with people such as myself and Ron Frantz, editor of the short-lived ACE Comics line from the ’80s. While my gab-fest with Jerry during the final six years of his life centered upon our mutual love of artist C.C. Beck’s work, Frantz’s letters from De Fuccio, revealed again here in the final installment of this three-part article, packed more drama and encompassed a wider variety of comic book lore and facts. We left off at the end of Part II during the mid-’80s with De Fuccio and Frantz’s ongoing, information-laden correspondence—which was destined soon to come to an unfortunate halt. We pick things up with a 1986 De Fuccio letter regarding pulp artist Harry Steeger. —PCH.

Mad Man Richard Baratz drew the above caricature of Mad magazine associate editor Jerry De Fuccio for an article which appeared in Joe Brancatelli’s delightfully caustic Inside Comics #4 (1974). [©2009 respective copyright holders.]

and The Jungle Book. Borth did a nice feature on Sabu, on and off the screen; with incredibly good inking for the 1940 comic book era. Later, he did Phantom Lady, Spider Widow, and The Raven for both Feature and Police Comics. Borth was also with Treasure Chest from 19461971. He was Reed Crandall’s art school chum, roommate in New York City, and took Crandall into his family when Reed was on the skids. Borth did some nice comics at Ziff-Davis, as well as Quality. 8/28/86: Your Robin Red and Spencer Spook #3 previews are clean and clear. Richard Hughes would envy your re-designing of Spencer. The Robin Red characters panoply is interesting, which stimulates me to do a career article on Pat Boyette for PROfiles.

Those things which now seem frivolous and slight, will be of serious consequence to you, when they have made you once ridiculous. —Earl of Roscommon

6/30/86: I once did a Harry Steeger interview, as a follow-up to my Rafael de Soto interview in [Cartoonist] PROfiles. Steeger is a dynamic Daddy Warbucks-type, still scuba-diving in his seventies. This interview would go nicely with a folio of cover gimmicks that were literally swiped by the early comic book artists. I have a list of my favorites, selected as I scanned de Soto’s scrapbook. He did some 800 pulp covers. You’ll have to disregard Steeger’s bitter accusations against Brookside Publications, to whom he entrusted so many paintings and now-rare pulp issues. During this period, Jerry was going through a rough period financially. I tried to help as much as I could. One time I sent him several hundred dollars in cash via FedEx so that he could pay for some unexpected car repairs. Although I had no particular use for it at the time, I paid Jerry for rights to publish the Steeger interview. I also bought some original artwork from Jerry by Klaus Nordling, Jack Kent, Bob Clarke, Al Jaffee, and several others. Some of it had been previously published, some not. Some, I suspect, were Mad magazine rejects. However, it was all good stuff and I certainly didn’t mind publishing it in my various ACE Comics titles, usually as fillers. I never did publish the Steeger interview, which continues to repose in my files, awaiting some future publication. 7/13/86: I’m borrowing a True Comics in which Frank Borth did a splendid Sabu story. He was the elephant boy of such films as Drums

Daredevil vs. The Claw In Cartoonist PROfiles nos. 33 and 34, Jerry De Fuccio presented Jack Cole’s classic battle between The Claw and Daredevil. The art was re-drawn by Captain Marvel chief artist C.C. Beck, whom De Fuccio commissioned in the ’70s to recreate Cole’s story. Beck lightly added his own touch to the tale while remaining true to the spirit of the original— and, according to De Fuccio, Beck had “beefed up a lot of Cole’s pen lines and lettering.” The story was reprinted in Ron Frantz’s ACE Comics Presents #1 (May 1987). [©2009 respective copyright holders.]

FCA (Fawcett Collectors Of America)

11/3/86: In Cartoonist PROfiles #33 and 34, we ran the sixteen-page battle between the Claw and Daredevil; a Jack Cole classic. The art was re-drawn by C.C. Beck, who beefed up a lot of Cole’s pen lines and lettering, without changing the character of the art. It was apparent that Cole had tired on some of the pages. You could pass them off as “A Tribute to Jack Cole,” without reference to Beck at all. 11/13/86: I suggest that “Fantomah, Mystery Woman of the Jungle” would be a good pick-up for your purposes. A Fiction House story from an early Jungle Comics, it is very unusual and fascinating artwork by Hank Fletcher, which appeared only from 1939-1941. If you can latch onto some Fantastic Comics (Fox) we can show his “Stardust, the Super Wizard,” also. A very bizarre science-fiction feature that ran for 16 issues. I have sent Michael Delle-Femine [the editor at Cracked magazine] some whimsical material, which may go over if John Severin illustrates it. I’ve asked Bill Emerson to look for the poster of Skyman by Ogden Whitney, as Delle-Femine tells me he‘ll be writing it for you. 11/25/86: I dropped Marie Severin a note, regarding John Severin’s unlisted phone number. I recall that John did the Yellow Claw for Timely, at the time of Joe Maneely’s death. Matter of fact, the E.C. terminated and out-of-work Al Feldstein wrote that issue of Yellow Claw. I think I’d have Severin do the Daredevil Battles the Claw cover. We need mood and impact, contrasting with Jack Cole’s flat work inside. Perhaps the lettering should be done on an overlay. Severin was never into lettering. Gaspar Saladino has created logos for me. He lettered your “Super Heroes Convention” by Al Jaffee. Also, “Parable,“ by J. Severin and me. I’m convinced we need Severin on the Cole cover! 1/3/87: Maybe it’s time for you to phone John Severin? I would like to deliver the Hughes scripts and the Jack Cole photographs simultaneously, in one package. That Skyman drawing didn’t turn up in Emerson’s vault. Ron Goulart must have it. If comics historian (and sf and mystery writer) Goulart had the Skyman drawing, he apparently had no intention of digging it out. My thought at the time was that he planned to use it himself at some later date. This attitude upset Jerry. I will admit that it irritated me a little, too, although I suspect that Goulart didn’t lose any sleep worrying about it. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: On the other hand, it was only Jerry D.’s intuition that Ron Goulart had the art—and he may not have.]

Ditko In For Severin The cover to ACE Comics Presents #1 (May 1987), featuring C.C. Beck’s re-creation of Jack Cole’s Golden Age classic “Daredevil Battles The Claw” story. Jerry De Fuccio practically pleaded with ACE publisher Ron Frantz to hire John Severin to draw the cover, but Frantz instead passed the assignment over to Steve Ditko … with outstanding results. [©2009 Ron Frantz.]

At Jerry’s suggestion, I gave John Severin a phone call. Severin seemed friendly and was willing to do the job. The only problem was that he expected a fee comparable to what he was paid to illustrate covers for Cracked. This figure was about three times more than I had ever paid for a cover. The profit margin was too narrow for me to justify the expense. Severin must have had all the work he could handle, as there was no room for negotiation. I thanked him for his time and hung up the phone. I ended up passing the assignment along to Steve Ditko, who produced a magnificent cover. Jerry, however, who didn’t care much for Ditko’s art, thought I should have used Severin, no matter what the cost. Oh, well. If I have learned any one thing of lasting consequence in this life, it is that you can’t please everyone.

I immediately called Jerry to tell him what had happened. For some reason, the situation worried him. Jerry virtually pleaded with me to pay Bernhardt and keep it quiet as possible. This had something to do with the story having been published earlier in Cartoonist PROfiles. I think the bottom line is that Jerry feared it might affect his standing with PROfiles publisher Jud Hurd if he were called to testify in court.

It was a good thing I didn’t spend the extra money on Severin. Shortly after the issue was published, I got a phone call from a fellow named Arthur Bernhardt, who claimed to own the copyright on the “Daredevil Battles The Claw” story. Bernhardt had been co-owner of New Friday Publications (1941-42), before selling his share of the business to Lev Gleason. Bernhardt’s claim of ownership was nonsense. The story was clearly in the public domain, because the original copyright had not been renewed. In my mind, the whole thing smacked of extortion. Bernhardt demanded an absurd amount of money for restitution; otherwise he

Sure enough, I got a phone call from some attorney representing Bernhardt a few days later. To hear him talk, I was facing doom itself unless I agreed to pay the blood money. His threat didn’t bother me, and I gave him my attorney’s phone number. My attorney called a day or two later, telling me that I had stirred up a real hornet’s nest. He seemed to think that Bernhardt was serious about going to court and suggested that it would be less expensive to settle for a token amount than to go through all the time and expense of defending myself in a civil action. It has been my experience that lawyers are a lot like doctors. If you are not going to

threatened to sue. When I told him that I had no intention of paying him one red cent, he turned belligerent and said I would be hearing from his attorney.

Alter Ego #84