Alter Ego #83

Roy Thomas’ Savage Comics Fanzine

SWORD-ANDSORCERY IN THE COMICS PART TWO

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[Art ©2009 Arthur Suydam.]

January 2009

Vol. 3, No. 83 / January 2009 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

Circulation Director

Contents Writer/Editorial: Of Thieves, Reavers, And Slayers . . . . . . . . . 2 The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Bob Brodsky, Cookiesoup Productions

Tom Lammers on the Lee-Maneely creation—with a sidebar on a plethora of Black Knights!

Cover Artist

Wally Wood, that is—crafter of early Marvel sword-and-sorcery sagas—by Richard J. Arndt.

Arthur Suydam

With Special Thanks to: Terry & Kay Allen Heidi Amash Richard J. Arndt Rodrigo Baeza Jean Bails Alex Bialy Dominic Bongo Frank Brunner Rich Buckler Joe Carroll Lynda Fox Cohen Teresa R. Davidson Tony DeZuniga Eda Lisa Edwards Mark Evanier Shane Foley Ron Frantz Janet Gilbert Andreas Gottschlich Bob Greenberger Lawrence Guidry George Hagenauer Jennifer Hamerlinck David Hamilton Jack C. Harris Heritage Comics Archives Roger Holda Rafael Kayanan Jim Korkis Alan Kupperberg

Thomas G. Lammers Dominique Leonard Mark Lewis Jim Ludwig Glenn MacKay Dennis Mallonee Todd McFarlane Brian K. Morris Will Murray Barry Pearl Joe Petrilak Rubén Procopio Ken Quattro Gene Reed Charlie Roberts Bob Rozakis Anthony Snyder Ronn Sutton Arthur Suydam Mark Swayze Dan Tandarich Carl Taylor Dann Thomas Michael Tiefenbacher Dr. Michael J. Vassallo John Wells Barry Windsor-Smith Joseph Wise Alex Wright Bernie Wrightson

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Jerry Serpe & Dave Stevens

A Sword of WOOD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Conan Before The Bronze Age . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 Will Murray relates how Robert E. Howard’s Road of Kings led straight to Marvel Comics.

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]…

Than Spider-Man!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 Roy Thomas talks—yes, again—about REH’s Hyborian hero... to Jim Amash, this time.

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”. . . . . . . . 38 And they won’t be—if MLJ/Archie artist Joe Edwards has anything to say about it. (Part II)

“We Should Form A Club Or Society…” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Chapter 6 in Bob Rozakis’ Earth-22 “Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.”

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! Are They Kidding? . . . . . . . . . . 63 Michael T. Gilbert and some of the nuttiest things comics creators ever tried to get away with!

Comic Fandom Archive: Found! “New” Photos From The 1965 New York Comicon! (Part 2) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 Bill Schelly presents more recently-discovered vintage pics from the Jerry Bails collection.

Tributes To Jerry Serpe & Dave Stevens . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 re: [comments, corrections, & correspondence] . . . . . . . . . 76 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #142 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .79 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze & Ron Frantz’s memories of Jerry De Fuccio.

On Our Cover: This stunning painting by Arthur Suydam—who caused a sensation last year with his powerful covers for Marvel Zombies—portrays a barbarian upon a usurped throne. But is it Conan—or Kull—or another hero of sword-and-sorcery fiction? It matters not. Thanks to Arthur for allowing us to use this art—previously seen only on a poster done a couple of years ago for the DragonCon in Atlanta, Georgia—as our cover! See the whole illo on p. 35. [©2009 Arthur Suydam.]

Above: With Barry Windsor-Smith putting so much work into early Conan comics, Roy T. gladly purchased rights to various sketches he had done to give Barry extra income—and Marvel more work by Barry! Savage Tales #2 (1973), with “Red Nails” up front, utilized the above pencil drawing as the heading for an article—whether or not Barry originally intended it to specifically represent the Cimmerian swashbuckler. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344.

Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices.

Single issues: $9 US ($11.00 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $88 US, $140 Canada, $210 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890 FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

2

Of Thieves, Reavers, And Slayers S

eems like only yesterday—and not nearly half a year ago, which it actually is—that we were prepping the first of our several “Swordand-Sorcery in the Comics” issues, for Alter Ego #80. (That eldritch edition is still available from TwoMorrows—see ad bloc on pp. 89 ff.—hint, hint!)

This time, we examine the phenomenon which, we must admit, we immodestly consider the epicenter of the s&s comic book earthquake of the 1970s—namely, Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, as launched by Yours Truly as scripter (and de facto editor) and Barry Windsor-Smith as artist extraordinaire. Even before Conan, though, Marvel had flirted with that genre—as witness the short-lived but legendary Black Knight series by Stan Lee and Joe Maneely in the mid-1950s, and several stories written and drawn by Wally Wood right before the Cimmerian first unsheathed his four-color broadsword. (At the last minute, sadly, we had to delay Richard Arndt’s study of Charlton’s proto-s&s comic Hercules until our third special foray.)

RI, back to Chicago, without missing a beat…while Dann and I journeyed first to Missouri to visit my mother (and to attend my [gulp!] 50th-year high school class reunion), then to New York for a Big Apple comicon.

Now, we’re all settled in again… and ready to start on A/E #84 and to get back to work on The All-Star Companion, Vol. 4 (and final!), due out this summer. Who was it said “No rest for the wicked”? Probably Dorothy Gale.

Bestest,

Monthly! The Original First-Person History!

Sure, we could cram our entire sword-and-sorcery history into just a couple of issues, but that would rob you—and me—of the pleasure of Alter Ego’s regularly scheduled contributions by the likes of Michael T. Gilbert, Bill Schelly, P.C. Hamerlinck, and Bob Rozakis—not to mention Jim Amash, who this time around completes his in-depth interview with MLJ/Archie artist Joe Edwards. And we were bound and determined not to miss a second letters section in a row!

Of course, there’ve been a few behind-the-scenes dramas, as well… for life goes on, and not just in bordered panels or in musty old comics.

Between A/E #82 & #83, layout guru Chris Day moved from Providence,

Write to: Robin Snyder, 3745 Canterbury Lane #81, Bellingham, WA 98225-1186

COMING IN MARCH

#

84

STEVE SKEATES On Thin Ice! How The Writer of AQUAMAN, HAWK & DOVE, Et Al., Took The Silver Age Plunge!

• Previously unseen Aquaman cover by JIM APARO! • STEVE SKEATES on his comics scripting from 1965 through the early ’70s, for DC, Marvel, Charlton, & Warren—from Aquaman to Sub-Mariner to Plop! (The late ’70s onward will be covered in Back Issue #33, a couple of weeks later!)

• Skeates-related arts & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD—& the great WARREN SPAVIN! • TV writer CHARLES SINCLAIR talks about Batman co-creator BILL FINGER— and JIM AMASH listens! (And so will you!)

• Plus—FCA with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, & JERRY DE FUCCIO, Part II— MICHAEL T. GILBERT on “Twice-Told EC”—BILL SCHELLY’s Comic Fandom Archive—BOB ROZAKIS’ “Secret History Of All-American Comics”—& MORE!!

Edited by ROY THOMAS Comics, [Aquaman TM & ©2009 DC

Inc.]

SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $88 Standard, $120 First Class (Canada: $140, Elsewhere: $210 Surface, $230 Airmail).

NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

The Swords And The Sorcerers part one [continued from Alter Ego #80]

3

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer Second In The Author’s “Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series”

by Thomas G. Lammers While hardly pure “sword-and-sorcery,” Marvel’s five 1955-56 issues of Black Knight were the nearest thing to it published by Timely Comics before the tail-end of the 1960s and Conan the Barbarian in 1970.

There is no true wizardry in the series except that of Merlin the Magician, which consists primarily of a far-seeing crystal ball and the ability to ensorcel a sword into the enchanted Black Blade. Morgan le Fey, who is a witch in the original Arthurian legends, appears in the series but performs no magic. Still, this is the closest that Stan Lee, major architect of the Marvel Universe, came to writing the genre developed by Robert E. Howard, whose roots go back, of course, to an earlier tradition on which, in part, REH drew. —RT.

T

he age of knighthood long has been a favorite setting in Western literature, and the best known character in such stories is the legendary King Arthur. The earliest accounts of his life are found in the 9th-century Historia Brittonum and the 10th-century Annales Cambriae, where he is described as a Romano-British chieftain killed during the Battle of Camlann in 537. Most of the familiar elements of Arthurian legend—Camelot, the Knights of the Round Table, Merlin the Magician, Queen Guinevere—come not from these sketchy historical accounts but from subsequent romanticized sources, beginning with the 12th-century Historia Regum Britanniae by Geoffrey of Monmouth.

Arthurian legend has been portrayed in virtually every medium, from scholarly treatises to Hollywood blockbusters to video games. It is not surprising that Timely/Atlas/Marvel publisher Martin Goodman got in on the action as well, placing The Black Knight on the nation’s newsstands in early 1955. This was his first and only entry in the knights-in-shiningarmor genre, if one overlooks the 34-page cover story “Richard the LionHearted” (job #4358) in Ideal Comics #4 (Jan. 1949).

Goodman is best remembered as a trend-chaser, not an innovator.

Whenever he brought out a new title, it was almost always in response to his perception of what was “hot” for other publishers. However, comic books set in the days of chivalry were rather scarce in the early 1950s.

Toby Comics had produced their own The Black Knight in 1953, but it lasted only a single issue. EC’s Valor had debuted two months before Goodman’s new title. However, these “New Direction” titles were widely perceived as an act of desperation by publisher Bill Gaines, necessitated by the dictates of the new Comics Code Authority. As such, it seems unlikely that Goodman was influenced to any great degree by the appearance of this title, either. No other publishers had comic-book titles in this genre. What then was the impetus for The Black Knight?

Looking at other popular media of the day, it seems most likely that Black Knight had a cinematic raison d’etre. The year 1954 saw a spate of costume dramas set during the Age of Chivalry. The first of these (released on January 15) was Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer’s Knights of the Round Table, which starred Robert Taylor and Ava Gardner, with a script based on Sir Thomas Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur (1485). This was followed on April 5 by Prince Valiant, starring Robert Wagner and Janet Leigh in a 20th Century-Fox adaptation of the popular Hal Foster

Oh, What A Knight!

Joe Maneely’s dramatic cover for Timely/Atlas’ Black Knight #1 (May 1955). [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

newspaper strip—which featured James Mason as a villainous, secretidentitied Black Knight. On August 7, Warner Bros. released King Richard and the Crusaders starring Rex Harrison and Virginia Mayo, while Universal Pictures’ The Black Shield of Falworth, starring Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh, debuted on September 2. The red griffin in flight on Curtis’ black shield does bear considerable resemblance to the red eagle in flight on the Black Knight’s.

It was the last of the 1954 releases that may have been particularly influential in Goodman’s decision: Columbia Pictures’ The Black Knight, [Continued on p. 6]

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“The Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series”

Black Knights ’Round The Table The images on this and the opposite page illustrate the precursors, competitors, and latter-day equivalents of the Atlas hero. “Black Knight” has long been a popular name, indeed—and we’re sure we didn’t catch nearly all of them. (Clockwise from top left:) (Below:) More Fun Comics #73 (Nov. 1941). In the same month the Classic Comics rendition debuted, a villainous modern-day Black Knight strikes— but with newsreel photog Johnny Chambers in the picture, can the superfast Johnny Quick be far behind? Script credited to Mort Weisinger, pencils to Ed Moore, inks to Chad Grothkopf. Thanks to John Wells for the scan. The whole issue was reprinted in one of DC’s Millennium Editions—and John adds that several 1936 issues of More Fun featured the Richard/BK version in a serialized adaptation of Ivanhoe. [©2009 DC Comics.]

(Above:) Classic Comics #2 (Nov. 1941) - Ivanhoe. Ed Ashe of the Lloyd Jacquet/Funnies, Inc. shop is generally credited with drawing Gilberton’s first adaptation of Sir Walter Scott’s 1820 novel. However, as per William B. Jones, Jr.’s, excellent study Classics Illustrated: A Cultural History, with Illustrations, comics historian Hames Ware “confirmed that Ashe was responsible for a relatively small number of panels,” with fellow shop-artist Ray Ramsey doing much of the work. Back in England, of course, the Knight will reveal himself to be King Richard the Lion-Hearted, home from the Crusades. [©2009 First Classics, Inc., by permission of Jack Lake Productions, Inc.]

Rip Hunter… Time Master #16 (Sept-Oct. 1963). This Black Knight was one of “The Criminal League of Time” in a full-lengther written by Jack Miller and illustrated by Bill Ely. Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Superboy #103 (March 1963). Edmond Hamilton wrote, Curt Swan penciled, and George Klein inked this three-parter. Oh, and this Black Knight turned out to be Merlin the Magician!

Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Superman #124 (Sept. 1958). This “Black Knight,” supposedly brought back to life after 1000 years, turned out to be Daily Planet editor Perry White, disguised by the Man of Steel to trick a felon. Art by Al Plastino; scripter uncertain. Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer (Left:) Ernie Schroeder’s cover for Toby Press’ The Black Knight #1 (1953).

There was no sorcery in this one-shot comic about a knight returning home from the Crusades to find evil raging in his own land, as related in John Wells’ keystone article for this series in Alter Ego #80. As seen in the lead splash printed three issues back, the only “sorcerer” in sight was a druid who exploited peasant superstitions. The Toby mag’s logo closely foreshadows that of the Marvel/Atlas title. Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

(Above:) Four Color #567 (June 1954). This comic probably went on sale circa April, and adapted the 20th Century-Fox film Prince Valiant released that month, based on Harold R. Foster’s long-running Sunday comic strip. The movie starred Robert Wagner as Val, Janet Leigh as Aleta, and James Mason as Sir Brack, alias the evil Black Knight. The Dell/Western mag was scripted by Paul S. Newman and illustrated by Bob Fujitani. Thanks to Jim Ludwig & Gene Reed. [©2009 the respective copyright holders; Prince Valiant TM & © King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

(Right:) Movie star Alan Ladd in a “still” from MGM’s The Black Knight (1954). This movie—whose title hero may or may not have owed anything to the only slightly earlier film from 20th, as well as to a 1952 Ivanhoe film—continued the concept of a secret-identity Black Knight, but made him again a hero instead of a villain. It was probably a more direct ancestor of the LeeManeely concoction than anything in the four-color medium, its plot having many echoes in Atlas’ BK comic book.

Thanks to Bob Bailey. [©2009 MGM, Inc., or its successors in interest.]

(Above:) Classics Illustrated #2 – Ivanhoe. This 1957 re-adaptation

by CI/Gilberton of the novel was drawn by Norman Nodel; scripter again unknown. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [©2009 First Classics, Inc.; by permission of Jake Lake Productions, Inc.]

5

6

“The Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series”

[Continued from p. 3] released on October 28. Not only are the two homonymous, but they share several key plot elements. In the film, Alan Ladd plays John, a young swordsmith who aspires to join the Knights of the Round Table at Camelot but is prevented by false accusations of cowardice. With secret training from a skilled mentor in the arts of combat, he adopts the nom de guerre of The Black Knight. He thwarts a traitorous plot against King Arthur by a treacherous lord, defeats the Saracens, and rescues his loveinterest.

Alan Ladd’s cinematic Black Knight is certainly more similar to the comic book hero of that name than either is to the actual Black Knight of Arthurian romance. The latter character was a rather late interpolation in the saga, first appearing in Richard Johnson’s Tom a Lincoln, Part 2 (1607). Johnson’s Black Knight was the grandson of King Arthur on the one hand and of legendary Eastern monarch Prester John on the other.

Tom of Lincoln, the Red Rose Knight, was King Arthur’s bastard son. He journeyed eastward to the kingdom of Prester John, where he abducted that monarch’s daughter Anglitora; she later gave birth to The Black Knight. When she discovered her husband’s illegitimacy, she was so distraught that she abandoned him and set out with her son to return to her father‘s kingdom. En route, mother and son found themselves in a wild land, inhabited solely by a lone knight in a castle. Anglitora became the knight’s lover while her son wandered in the wilderness for seven long years. When Tom of Lincoln finally caught up to his runaway bride, she and her new lover murdered him. Thirsting for vengeance, his ghost found the Black Knight in the wilderness and sent him to the castle to murder his mother and her lover. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: The abovenamed Richard Johnson is the same 16th/17th-century author who wrote the King Arthur-influenced novel The Seven Champions of Christendom, featuring a septet composed of St. George of England, St.

Patrick of Ireland, and five other “knight-saints,” each from a different country, as analyzed by Mike W. Barr in Ye Editor’s All-Star Companion, Vol. 3 (2007).]

Interestingly, “black knight“ was a generic term in the Middle Ages.

One type of black knight was a warrior who was not bound to a specific liege, and thus bore no heraldic standards on his shield or armor. Lacking the resources to support a squire or page to care for his armor, he painted it black to retard rusting. Such knights operated as mercenaries, lending support to whatever lord paid them. The other sort blackened his shield and armor to conceal his heraldry and thus his identity, due to his involvement in risky political intrigues or other disreputable activities. In either case, black knights were generally viewed with suspicion and disdain, not as chivalrous heroes or champions of right.

The first three issues of the Atlas comics series were drawn by Joe Maneely. Issue #4 was the work of Fred Kida, while the fifth and final one was penciled by Syd Shores and inked by Chris Rule. The only script credits are Stan Lee’s, on the first issue; it is not known if he or others wrote subsequent issues, though it seems unlikely Lee scribed the stories which lack his byline. All “Black Knight” adventures were exactly six pages in length except the first (which had 10) and the second (8). The stories in each issue below are listed in order of job number, which was not always the order in which they appeared in the issue.

Each issue of Black Knight also concerned a 5-page story in the series “The Crusader,” which showcased the exploits of a warrior in King Richard’s Crusade who is introduced as a Saracen but discovers, by the end of the first episode, that he was actually born a European; he switches sides, taking the place of his slain Crusader brother, Sir John. That series, however, contains no sorcery and lies outside the scope of this article.

(For “Crusader” splash pages, see Dr. Michael J. Vassallo’s in-depth article on Joe Maneely in A/E #28.)

Black Knight #1 (May 1955): In the very first “Black Knight” tale, “The Menace of Modred the Evil!” (#F-868), we are introduced to some of the nobility of Camelot, including Sir Lancelot, Sir Galahad, and Sir Gawain, as well as to King Arthur and Queen Guinevere. Also at court is Arthur’s nephew Modred, “the most sinister, treacherous lord in the realm!“ He plots to depose his royal relative and rule in his stead. He informs his wife, Morgan le Fey, that the coup will take place within the month. (In authentic Arthurian legend, she was Arthur’s sister, but there is no mention of that in the comics series.)

One day, an entourage arrives at the gates of Camelot—that of Sir Percy of Scandia, a cousin of Modred’s (though apparently no relation to Modred’s uncle, King Arthur). Percy says the Baron of Emsore has laid siege to his lands, and he seeks refuge at Camelot for himself and his retinue. Modred is clearly embarrassed by his foppish relation, describing him to Arthur as “a weakling and a coward!”

However, once Percy is alone with Merlin, he reveals that the role of coward is merely an act, imposed on him by the magician. How Merlin already knew Percy is not made clear, but he is aware of Modred’s intrigues against Arthur; he is old and needs someone to aid him as Arthur’s protector. But Percy cannot operate openly, for Modred would order slain anyone who actively opposed his plot. To all except Merlin, he must play a dandy and coward; but when danger threatens Arthur, he is to don dark armor and become ... the Black Knight! As long as he fights

This Is A Job (#) For The Black Knight!

The splash of the “Black Knight” origin tale in BK #1. A photo of writer/editor Stan Lee and artist Joe Maneely appeared in A/E #80. Note the story’s socalled “job number” in the lower left-hand corner. These were used by Timely/Atlas for scheduling, bookkeeping, and tracking purposes. Thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo for the scan. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer

7

Any Room Under There For Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, Et Al.?

(Left:) Sir Percy protects his alter ego by playing the fearful dandy in Black Knight #2.

Art by Joe Maneely. [Comic art ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Below:) Sir Percy Blakeney, hero of the 1934 Alexander Korda film The Scarlet Pimpernel, was portrayed by Leslie Howard, who co-starred with Merle Oberon. He secretly rescued aristocrats from death during the French Revolution’s Reign of Terror in the late 18th century and left an image of that flower as his calling card. Baroness Emmuska Orczy introduced the Pimpernel in a London play of that title in 1903; it flopped, but succeeded with a 1905 relaunch, at which time what would now be called a “novelization” was released. There were eventually several prose sequels by Orczy, some silent movies, three Korda films—counting one in which Nielsen as a 20th-century Pimpernel rescued folks from Nazi-occupied Europe—a radio series, a Broadway musical in 1997, and a pair of TV series in 1999-2000—not to mention the vintage Daffy Duck cartoon, “The Scarlet Pumpernickel.” Even though he never wore a mask, let alone a costume, the original Sir Percy influenced later heroes with alter egos from Zorro to Superman and Batman—and even lent his name to the 1955-56 Atlas comic’s protagonist. [Scarlet Pimpernel still ©2009 Korda Films or successors in interest.]

Ebony Blade singing left and right, he extricates the fair damsel from their clutches. As the pair ride away, the Norseman raises his sword in salute to his valiant opponent.

(Incidentally, in this story we learn that the name of the Black Knight’s dark steed is Thunder. Maybe he was on loan from Red Ryder.)

for Arthur and for England, Merlin says, his sword will never fail him. He gets the chance to prove that when Hawkes and two other knights loyal to Modred charge into the secret meeting of Merlin and Percy. In just three panels, the Black Knight slays the menacing trio before they can carry word of his existence to their liege.

Modred’s men ambush Arthur during the royal boar hunt. As the outnumbered Arthur fights back valiantly, the Black Knight arrives and routs them. The King requests that his mysterious savior lift his visor, but the Knight says he has sworn an oath to reveal himself to no one. Modred arrives, expecting to find Arthur’s corpse. A fast thinker, he accuses the Black Knight of the attack on the King, demanding the stranger lift his visor. The Knight tells Modred that the day he sees his face, “that day you meet your doom!” Arthur vows that the Black Knight will be welcome in Camelot and need never remove his helmet. With Excalibur, he dubs him “Sir Black Knight.”

In the issue’s second “BK” story (#F-900), the castle awakens to find that the monarch has inexplicably vanished! As a search is launched, Modred reassures everyone that, until Arthur’s return, he will occupy the throne, “to guard it against usurpers!” Of course, it is Modred’s men who have abducted Arthur. Merlin’s crystal ball reveals that Arthur lies in the dungeons of the castle. He bids Percy rescue his sovereign, and either gives him an irresistible new sword called the Black Blade (sometimes the Ebony Blade) or else transforms Percy’s earlier weapon into same—the story is unclear concerning which. The Black Knight rescues the King; but, lacking proof of Modred’s perfidy, he dare not accuse him before the sovereign. Meanwhile, the fair Lady Rosamund, Arthur’s lovely young ward, comes to admire the Black Knight and to disdain Sir Percy, whom she calls a “churl.”

Black Knight #2 (July 1955): It is not just Modred’s intrigues that challenge The Black Knight. In the next story (#G-35), Leif the Lucky (an actual sobriquet for Norse adventurer Leif Erícson, 970-1020) has led a band of Viking raiders to England’s fair shores to find a fair maiden to become his bride in his castle at Skor.

Nearby, a small party from Camelot that includes Sir Percy is teaching Lady Rosamund the art of falconry. When the Norsemen seize her, Percy flees in feigned terror, only to reappear in the armor of the Black Knight!

The valiant Knight dispatches the Norsemen remaining ashore, then charges into the surf, where he lances Leif ’s longboat below the waterline.

To commemorate the Lady Rosamund’s safe return, a grand tournament is held in Camelot. But Modred intends it to be a tournament of doom (#G-63). As that day’s champion of the lists, he can challenge the King to a joust. From a soothsayer he has procured a brew, the tiniest scratch with which may be fatal. Fortunately, Merlin’s crystal alerts him to the plot, and he contacts Sir Percy. At the last moment, the Black Knight enters the lists, claiming Modred is not the day’s champion, as he has not yet faced the mysterious newcomer. Arthur yields the field. Modred is not displeased, figuring this is a chance to be rid of the one who has thus far stymied his plots. But the Black Blade strikes true, and the tainted lance touches neither the Black Knight nor Arthur.

It is shearing time and Arthur is abroad, sharing the peasants’ holiday.

In his absence, Sir Modred “guards” Camelot. He plots with the Norman lord Sir Robert de Quincy (an actual English knight of Norman origin; 1172-1217), whose forces will lay down the “Siege of Camelot!” (#G-64).

When Arthur returns, he will be captured and Modred installed on the throne. When the Norman forces appear, Sir Modred orders those in the battlements to stay their hand, while he leads the mounted knights to meet the invader. Deducing his strategy, Sir Percy quickly dons his black armor. Before Modred can surrender his beleaguered forces, the Black Knight rallies the flagging defense. As they flee back into the castle, however, Modred strikes one last (unseen) blow, tumbling the Black Knight off the drawbridge and into the moat! Avoiding the Normans until night falls, he slips into the castle just in time to prevent the skulking Modred from opening the portcullis and admitting the Normans. Arthur’s timely arrival ends the Norman menace, but again Modred has left no evidence by which his treachery might be revealed.

Black Knight #3 (Sept. 1955): In Camelot, the Knights of the Round Table are celebrating their king’s birthday with feasting (#248). The merriment is interrupted by the arrival of a gypsy caravan, bringing cages of wild beasts, including Nubian lions, for the next day’s hunt. In his crystal, Merlin glimpses Modred passing

8

“The Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series”

tournament against Arthur’s men. Modred’s man Hawkes tells one of them, Guy of Gascombe, to concentrate their attack on the Black Knight, as “all the court would like to see [him] humbled!” (Hawkes seems to have forgotten that he learned the Black Knight’s identity and was killed in the first story; maybe this is a relative?) To Modred’s delight, the Black Knight is indeed grievously injured by his opponents but manages to ride off and is helped to safety by Merlin. Though his original plot to see “The Black Knight Unmasked!” (#G-292), Modred instructs Hawkes to bump into the left shoulder of each knight at that evening’s celebratory banquet. The one who winces must be the Black Knight. The foppish Sir Percy is passed over as an impossible candidate. But an accidental bump from a careless servant betrays his wounded shoulder to Modred. Modred and his men accost Sir Percy, but are shown their surmise was wrong when the Black Knight appears! Once they flee, we learn it was actually Merlin in the dark armor. Retrieving his armor, the Black Knight pursues the schemer and teaches him a lesson.

Black Knight #4 (Nov. 1955): While sojourning among his people (#G-955), Arthur and his cortege are waylaid by French and Sicilian pirates. Their leader is the vicious Le Ponneau from the island of La Soire, but it is the nefarious Sir Modred who has instigated the abduction! Modred returns to Camelot, where he tells Galahad, Lancelot, and the other knights that he “shall sit upon the throne and guard England until our king is returned to us!“ Sir Percy escapes the pirates and makes his way back to Merlin, who witnessed the affair in his crystal. The magician arranges for a company of stout British seamen to sail with the Black Knight to La Soire, where a lightning raid frees their monarch and Lady Rosamund.

When Sir Guy Wanderell and his forces devastate the countryside, various minor barons appeal to their king for succor (#G-960). Wanderell is quickly defeated by Arthur and the Black Knight, but claims it was his love for Arthur’s ward, the Lady Rosamund, that drove him to expand his lands and wealth, in order to impress her. Arthur mercifully allows Wanderell to retain his lands and title, as long as he no longer molests his

A Touch Of Sorcery Merlin and his pet lizard watch the Black Knight in action in issue #3. Art by Joe Maneely, who was one of the best in the business at differentiating foreground and background—as well as at a few other things. Scripter unknown. Thanks to Doc V. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

gold to the gypsy leader. Warned by the magician, the Black Knight trails Arthur on the next day‘s hunt. As the King closes in on what he thinks is a single lion, three more are released from hiding by the gypsies! Thrown by his panicked horse, England’s monarch is in grave peril ... until the Black Knight arrives and dispatches the leonine lot! Once again, Modred’s intrigues are foiled but not exposed.

From France comes Sir D’Arcy, who wishes to join the Knights of the Round Table and to wed Lady Rosamund (#290). But he is rebuffed on both fronts and, to add insult to injury, defeated by the Black Knight in the tournaments. Tiring of the Frenchman’s insults, Arthur suggests he’d be happier if he left Camelot. Meanwhile, Lady Rosamund and her ladies in waiting, as a lark, disguise themselves as peasants and go out among the commoners, accompanied by Sir Percy. In a rough country inn, Simon the Strong, a bald, bearded giant of a man, takes on all comers with his staff and claims his prize—a kiss from the lovely Rosamund!

Percy intervenes as the Black Knight and challenges the country strongman at his own game. As they battle furiously, Sir D’Arcy and his men seize Rosamund and her ladies. D’Arcy plans to force Arthur to give him her hand in marriage and admit him to the Round Table. The Black Knight, Simon, and other peasants escape the inn and regroup. Though disparaged by Sir D’Arcy and his knights, the peasants are indeed doughty fighters and soon free the ladies.

It is June, and itinerant knights have flocked to Camelot for a grand

Oh, You Kida!

Fred Kida, a veteran artist who had previously drawn “Airboy” and other features for Hillman, as well as for MLJ, Quality, and Lev Gleason, assumed the main art chores in Black Knight #4. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer

9

neighbors. His tale is of course a lie, though Sir Guy admits that marrying the wealthy young woman would greatly expand his land holdings. To forestall any opposition, Sir Guy plots to turn the Black Knight’s secret identity against him. He has his armorer fashion an identical suit of black armor. Soon, reports reach Camelot that the Black Knight is roaming the countryside, robbing and plundering honest folks at will. The king has no choice but to declare his former champion an outlaw. At the Tournament of Roses, both Black Knights appear, each claiming the other is an imposter. Arthur orders the two knights into one-on-one combat. The true Ebony Blade shatters the ersatz, and Sir Guy’s perfidy is revealed for all.

As Arthur’s cortege passes the deserted Black Castle (#H-10), Sir Modred (mistakenly called “De Montfort,“ the name of the antagonist in the “Crusader” back-up stories!) is spied whipping a beggar named Tibbet, who dwells in the abandoned hulk. Modred’s cruel sport is prevented by the noble Black Knight. Not long after the group’s return to Camelot, the former master of Black Castle, the giant Kevin McCaul, arrives with a horde of outcast fighting men to reclaim his lands and avenge himself on Arthur, who banished him from England for his misdeeds. He issues a challenge to Arthur his own mercenaries lie hidden in ambush! Tibbet, however, recalls the Black Knight’s kindness, and warns him of the trap. The warning comes too late, however, and Arthur is taken prisoner before he can intervene.

However, Tibbet is able to show the Black Knight a secret way into the castle. The King is rescued, and McCaul’s forces lured into pitched battle and defeated.

Black Knight #5 (April 1956):

Erasmus B. Dragon, We Presume?

In the lead tale in Black Knight #5, the helmeted hero faced a dragon—which turned out to be a mechanical device with men inside. See? We told you Merlin was the only sorcerous thing about this series! Pencils credited to Syd Shores, inks to Christopher Rule. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Sir Gilles, the most powerful lord in the North, presses his suit for the hand of Lady Rosamund (#H-864). Modred champions Sir Gilles, but Arthur knows Gilles is a robber baron, growing rich on spoils taken from the helpless, and refuses to wed his ward to such a man. In fact, he resolves to let her choose her own husband when the time comes. Not easily dissuaded, Gilles offers to deliver the legendary Dragon of Kentswood Swamp in return for Rosamund’s hand. Doubting such a beast even exists, Arthur agrees. Weeks later, Gilles returns to Camelot with a large crate atop an ox-drawn cart. The sides drop, revealing the dragon, chained but roaring and spouting smoke! Arthur is duly impressed, but the Black Knight smites the dragon with his lance, and hears from within a suspicious cry. He goads the oxen to bolt, which causes the dragon to tip over and splinter, spilling forth a horde of armed men. Sir Gilles had attempted to use the Trojan Horse ruse to seize Camelot! The invaders are quickly vanquished and order restored.

In “The Invincible Tartar!” (#H-865), Mohar Jinn, “chief of all the Tartars,” has come to Camelot as “ambassador of [his] people.” Leaving their guest at Camelot, Arthur and his entourage depart Camelot to witness the gathering of salt at the seashore. Upon their arrival, they are ambushed and captured by Tartars commanded by Timultor, second-incommand brother of Mohar Jinn. The Tartar chief plans to conquer the kingdom! Arthur is held without food or water until he will agree to capitulate, while Sir Percy and the others are made galley slaves in Timultor’s ship. Percy leads a rebellion which frees the King, and the party set off to liberate Camelot. En route, Percy dons the dark armor.

The Black Knight and Merlin enter the castle via their secret passage and free Galahad, Lancelot, and the other imprisoned knights, then raise the portcullis to admit Arthur and the freed galley slaves. The Black Knight defeats the allegedly invincible Tartar chieftain in personal combat, and the sovereignty of England is once more saved.

While riding through the forest alone, Sir Percy is attacked by Big Tim and his robber band. Like the legendary Robin Hood, these “Men of the Shadows!” (H-915) once were honest landowners. However, the penurious taxes levied by Sir Joshua Costain, the Sheriff of Nottingham, have

driven them to poverty and the life of highwaymen. They blame Arthur, but Percy tells them that Arthur gathers no taxes from landowners; this is the corrupt sheriff ’s doing. Grabbing a quarter-staff, he strikes a bargain with Big Tim: if he can best the bandit leader, he goes free. Big Tim contemptuously agrees, and soon finds himself sprawled on his back by the “court dandy.” A man of honor, he lets his captive go free, with Percy promising to get a knight to investigate this burdensome taxation. As the Black Knight, he calls on Costain, finding him ensconced in a castle worthy of a king. Though the Sheriff ’s men capture the Knight, he is soon freed by Big Tim and his men, who together defeat the corrupt official and bring him to trial in Camelot.

Summary: As might be expected, these stories play loose and fast with Arthurian legend. As noted above, the actual Black Knight of Arthurian romance was the matricidal bastard grandson of King Arthur. Characters who in legend were Arthur’s bastard son and sister become Arthur’s nephew and his wife in the comic book. History similarly gets short shrift. Norseman Leif Ericson, featured in story #G-35, died in 1020, while Sir Robert de Quincy (#G-64) was not born until 1172. The Tartars of the Mongol Empire who visit Camelot in #H-865 did not even reach eastern Europe until the 13th century, and the “gypsies” (Romani) seen in #G-248 did not arrive in the British Isles until the late 15th century. Quite a span of dates for stories starring a king who supposedly died in 537!

The Black Knight series is fondly remembered today for producing some of artist Joe Maneely’s finest artwork—lush, detailed renderings that perfectly captured the same sense of adventure, nobility, and heroic chivalry of the Age of Knighthood. Apparently, though, there was not as much public demand for comic books about knights as there was for Hollywood films; the series folded after just five issues and Martin

10

“The Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series”

Goodman never again attempted a comic set in the Age of Chivalry.

However, that was not the last of the Black Knight at Martin Goodman’s multi-named comics company. In Tales to Astonish #52 (Feb. 1964), writer/editor Stan Lee and artist Dick Ayers introduced a new Black Knight—this one, a modern-day villain. Clad in dark armor and astride a winged steed created through genetic engineering, scientistturned-traitor Nathan Garrett used modern weapons concealed within his lance to rob and pillage, until foiled by Giant-Man. Originally, there was no explicit connection between this new character and the original. But, in The Avengers #48 (Jan. 1968), writer Roy Thomas and penciler George Tuska established Garrett as a descendant of Sir Percy of Scandia. Since by then Garrett had perished battling Iron Man, his nephew Dane Whitman took up his mantle, to expunge the blot on the family’s honor by fighting for right on a winged stallion of his own.

In response to interest in these new characters, stories from the original 1955-56 run of Black Knight were reprinted beginning in Fantasy Masterpieces #11 (Oct. 1967), thus introducing another generation of comics fans to these classic stories and art.

(Black) Knight Comes To The City After writer/editor Stan Lee and artist Dick Ayers introduced Nathan Garrett, a 20th-century Black Knight (with a mutationally winged stallion and high-tech lance) to fight Giant-Man in Tales to Astonish #52 (Feb. 1964), as seen at right— —the new super-villain joined his own “Round Table” of villains in The Avengers #6 (July ’64). Cover pencils by Jack Kirby, inks by Chic Stone. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Thomas C. Lammers is a professor of biology in Wisconsin. As a boy in smalltown Iowa in the 1960s, he was a fan of Marvel’s super-hero comics. Now he is a highly focused collector of their antecedents, Timely-Atlas comics. He has named and described over fifty species of plant… though not the flower which he is seen here contemplating in a photo taken when he was a curator at Field Museum. That flower, Brighamia insignis, is known only from the island of Kauai, and he modestly admits, “I’m the ‘world expert,’ for what it’s worth, on the family to which it belongs.”

The Swords And The Sorcerers part two

11

A Sword Of WOOD WALLY Wood, That Is—The Man Who Crafted Some Of Marvel’s Earliest Sword-And-Sorcery Sagas

by Richard Arndt In Alter Ego #83, at Ye Editor’s behest, comics researcher John Wells wrote a comprehensive overview of sword-and-sorcery comics from the 1940s (and its true beginnings with Avon’s “Crom the Barbarian” circa 1950) through the mid-1970s, by which time Marvel’s Robert E. Howard titles were well-established and had led to a mini-boom of s&s comics that rivaled the parallel explosion on the paperback racks. Somehow, however, there was one notable omission which we should have noticed—namely, a handful of stories written and drawn by Wally Wood in the months before Conan the Barbarian #1 made its mid-1970 debut. Here are a few words about that quartet of tales….

M

Lone Starr

arvel launched its own mystery titles in 1969 with Tower of Shadows and Chamber of Darkness—and it was in the former of those comics, rather in the pages of Conan the Barbarian in 1970, that Marvel’s first true sword-and-sorcery tales appeared.

Of course, the first s&s effort in either of these titles—which was covered three issues ago—was the fittingly titled “The Sword And The Sorcerers!” in Chamber of Darkness #4 (April 1970), written by Roy Thomas and illustrated by Barry Smith (now Windsor-Smith). Certainly this is a precursor of the comic book Conan, who would debut a mere six

Wood Was A Marvel!

In 1982 Thumbtack Books, Inc., re-published Wally Wood’s four Marvel sword-and-sorcery stories and his “Dr. Doom” work from Astonishing Tales (the latter minus a splash page or two) in a hardcover edition. The composite cover art was made up of a Wood self-portrait, the demonic Xzar, Johnny, and Princess Yrill, all in images taken from “Flight into Fear!” in Tower of Shadows #5 (May 1970). For photos of Wood, see A/E #8 and other issues. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Real Skinny Both “Jon-Nee” and Prince Yrill discover that beauty is considerably less than skin deep in “Flight into Fear!” [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

months later, as emphasized by the fact that its lead character, Starr the Slayer, is a doppelgänger of the Cimmerian as he would appear in the first half dozen issues of Conan the Barbarian, right down to the yak-horned helmet. There’s even a New York City billboard that advertises the services of “Bran, Mack, & Morn, Realtors”! It’s an excellent story, mixing fantasy past and the 20th century—cleverly told and well illustrated, with more heft to it than one might expect from a seven-page story. Yet Starr never appeared again.

12

Wally Wood—The Man Who Crafted Some Of Marvel’s Earliest Sword-And-Sorcery Sagas

Wood The next four Marvel sword-and-sorcery stories were all written and illustrated by Wally Wood, and appeared in Tower of Shadows #5-8 (May 1970-Nov. 1970).

The first of these was “Flight Into Fear!,” which features a caricature by Wood of himself acting as the narrator. It tells the tale of Johnny, a crippled college student who feels alone on the busy campus. One night he climbs atop a gargoyle, which promptly takes flight, flying through a wormhole into a fantastic world where a walled city is under attack by a wizard welding lightning-bolts. Struck by one of the bolts, the gargoyle is killed and Johnny falls to the ground, where he is rescued by people only half his size. Johnny finds his lame leg cured and the people of the city expecting him to battle the evil wizard outside the walls. With the help of the city’s princess he battles the wizard and kills him. The city folk beg him to stay with them, but he finds himself homesick for his own world and rides a second gargoyle back through the wormhole to his campus.

He wakes up atop the gargoyle and believes himself to have had an unusually vivid dream, then dismounts and walks away without limping.

Wood’s next story, “The Ghost-Beast!,” tells a story of a warrior named

A Barbarian, An Elf, And A Former Dwarf As Richard Arndt remarks, Pit Tippit and Trolkin in TOS #7 (Sept. ’70) harken back to “The Wizard King,” a somewhat Tolkinesque series Wood had introduced in the fourth issue of witzend, the “prozine” he had founded in the 1960s. In 1978 The Wizard King would be collected and published in hardcover, and it would spawn a sequel in the early ’80s. A third volume, alas, would never be completed, due to Wood’s suicide in 1981. But he left behind a lasting legacy of fine comic art. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Beowulf (although this isn’t the Beowulf of familiar legend). This one battles and slays a monster but then reveals himself to be a ruthless conqueror. When the beast he had supposedly slain reappears as a ghost, the people rise up against Beowulf, overpower him in his sleep, and tie him to a tree, hoping the ghost-beast will be appeased by their sacrifice.

The daughter of the king Beowulf overthrew and killed appears and offers to free him. She gives him an enchanted ring that will allow him to finally banish the ghost-beast. He accepts the ring and promptly begins a battle with the ghost-beast, who slowly vanishes before him. Beowulf is puzzled by the easy victory until the princess reveals that the ring is not actually enchanted but is really a poison ring, and that Beowulf himself is now dead and doomed to wander as a ghost until the end of time.

Castle Waiting, 1970 Version Wally’s lovely splash for “The Ghost-Beast!” in Tower of Shadows #6 (July 1970) evokes memories of Hal Foster’s vistas in his comic strip masterpiece Prince Valiant. Wood parodied that strip in the early color Mad, and later tried out—unsuccessfully, alas—to be the actual feature’s regular artist as Foster was winding down his career. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Tale three is entitled “Of Swords and Sorcery!” and appears to be set in the milieu of Wood’s Wizard King series. A barbarian named Vandal battles a sorcerer who turns men to stone. With the aid of a princess, an elf, and a small lizard-man, Vandal discovers a clever way to reverse the wizard’s power, which turns the magician to stone which shatters upon the ground.

A Sword Of Wood

13

William Faulkner, Eat Your Heart Out! The splash and final six panels of “Sanctuary!” in Tower of Shadows #8 (Nov. ’70) pretty much tell it all. The hero didn’t always win in Wally’s world. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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The fourth and last of these tales is called “Sanctuary!” and concerns a king called Hamand who is struggling to defend his castle against a barbarian invasion. While the exhausted sovereign sleeps, he dreams that a Druid King, whose tomb he’d looted when a young man, has returned to torment him and that this torment will not end until the violation of the druid’s tomb has been avenged. Terrified by the dream, Hamand commands his wizard, Abarac, to construct a tower to the castle that will stand forever and can never be successfully breached. After great difficulty this is accomplished, but when the tower is finally completed Hamand attempts to kill Abarac, since the wizard is the only one besides Hamand who knows where the secret doorway to the tower is. It is then that Abarac is revealed to be the dead Druid King, who had gotten Hamand to construct not a tower for safety but a prison cell from which no one can ever escape.

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All four tales of these “Wooden” tales have their virtues. but the best are “The Ghost-Beast!” and “Sanctuary!,” which provide plenty of political double-dealings and castle intrigue.

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MIKE BURKEY

P.O. BOX 455 • RAVENNA, OH 44266 CASH IS WAITING, SO HURRY!!!!!

By the time the last of Wood’s foursome of sword & sorcery tales appeared, Conan the Barbarian was already being published and King Kull was set to make his comics debut in only four months. Around that time, the mystery titles largely ceased printing new material, and so it was a number of years before more stand-alone sword-and-sorcery stories appeared at Marvel.

The Swords And The Sorcerers part three

14

Conan Before The Bronze Age How Robert E. Howard’s Road Of Kings Led To Marvel Comics

by Will Murray A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: It’s a bit tricky to relate the story of sword-and-sorcery in the comics without either dwelling overmuch on the importance of Marvel’s Conan—or slighting the mags in which he appeared—in order to play up other, lesser-known examples of the genre. For that reason, in our coverage of the genre three issues ago, John Wells only touched on Conan the Barbarian and its black-&-white sister titles Savage Tales and The Savage Sword of Conan. This time, we’re making up for it with two pieces—first this overview

by Will Murray, to be followed by Jim Amash’s interview with Ye Editor. Some repetition between the two is unavoidable, but we’ve done our best to avoid any more déjà vu for the reader than we can help… and a few pre-1970 forebears are only mentioned in passing because of #80’s coverage. But Will has dug up some vintage quotes by Gil Kane, Roy Thomas, and others which add flesh to the bones of the story, and in one or two cases even suggest a slightly different sequence of events than Roy remembers. Rashomon lives!

Now, onward….

I

f any single event signaled the end of the Silver Age of Comics, it was publication of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian in the summer of 1970.

Although it didn’t happen overnight, Conan’s comics advent marked the beginning of the end of Silver Age super-hero dominance. A new age was dawning.

The Bronze Age.

While the barbarian hero didn’t hail from the Bronze Age of mankind, but from the mythical Hyborian Age of a pulp writer’s creation, Conan’s time period was so similar to the era when bronze was the dominant metal that it’s eerily appropriate that he later came to symbolize Marvel’s Bronze Age. Conan the Cimmerian was created by Texas pulp writer Robert E. Howard back in 1932.

He first appeared in “The Phoenix on the Sword,” in the issue of the magazine Weird Tales for December 1932. There must have been something in the air that Depression month, for Fran Striker’s Lone Ranger was being created at the same time, while Erle Stanley Gardner and Lester Dent were writing the very first Perry Mason and Doc Savage novels in the weeks leading up to Christmas ’32.

Howard’s less heroic character careened between being a thief, mercenary, and pirate, finally becoming King of Aquilonia in the

The Man And The Myth One of Roy Thomas’ personal favorite issues of The Savage Sword of Conan was #200 (Aug. 1992), which he wrote not long after he returned to scripting the Cimmerian’s exploits. The story segued back and forth between an archetypal Conan saga and the events of Robert E. Howard’s creation of the hero in early 1932 as related in his letters—with the latter episode veering off into a fantasy adventure in which REH found himself in trouble with dangerous drug smugglers on the Texas-Mexico border. Roy had tried to sell Marvel on doing “Barbarians of the Border” as a graphic novel; when that failed, he settled, with the blessing of editor Mike Rockwitz (who had engineered his return to the barbarian at the turn of the ’90s), for a black-&white magazine version, in tandem with John Buscema (layout penciler) and Ernie Chan (finisher/inker). [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

How Robert E. Howard’s Road Of Kings Led To Marvel Comics

15

“There was a strange outfit called Triangle that specialized in fantasy fiction,” artist Gray Morrow recalled to Comics Scene. “They were printing a lot of Robert E. Howard’s stuff and were doing poorly with it.

They decided to see what could be done with Conan in comic book form.

I had never heard of Conan before, so they gave me Howard’s ‘Tower of the Elephant’ and told me to come up with a comic based on it. It was the first appearance of Conan in comic book form. The problem was they never printed the comic. I got paid for it, but today, it must be sitting on a shelf somewhere getting moldy.”

Triangle published TV Guide and Seventeen, but no known fantasy or comic books. Two obscure 1953 digests, John Raymond’s Fantasy Tales and Space Science Fiction, did reprint Howard. Morrow may have been referring to them. No doubt the institution of the Comics Code killed the project.

Conan languished after that. Or so it seemed in the USA. South of the

“Phoenix” Rising The world’s very first visual glimpse of Conan the Cimmerian was in the above illustration by Jayem Wilcox for “The Phoenix on the Sword,” printed in the Dec. 1932 issue of Weird Tales pulp magazine. It was the only artwork that appeared with that first published “Conan” adventure. [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

later years of his tumultuous life.

Conan’s meteoric career ended when Howard committed suicide in 1936, but the Cimmerian refused to expire.

Often reprinted, he was never totally forgotten. He seemed like the perfect fodder for comic books. So why it did take until 1970?

Actually, as related in more detail in Alter Ego #80, the long Road of Kings to comic books started back in 1950, when Avon published three pseudo-Conan strips featuring a primitive hero called Crom the Barbarian in Out of This World Adventures and Strange Worlds.

Authored by Gardner Fox and drawn

by Weird Tales artist John Guinta, it was a shameless attempt to co-opt Conan, whose favorite oath was “Crom!” That same year, Gnome Press released the first of their hardcover Howard books, Conan the Conqueror, which planted the seeds of a major mainstream Conan revival of the ’60s.

It’s no coincidence that Avon reprinted Howard pulp stories in their Avon Fantasy Reader.

Only three or four years after the Avon “Crom,” with comics suffering from a horror backlash and dogged by Congressional investigations, Conan came within an inch of taking the Atom Age of Comics by storm.

All Elephants Are Gray In The Dark Ages Though no art from Gray Morrow’s reported full-length 1953 comic book adaptation of “The Tower of the Elephant” has ever turned up and it indeed may no longer exist, that exceptional artist did this illustration for The Savage Sword of Conan #7 (Aug. 1975). Or had he done it some time before and simply sold Marvel rights to print it in conjunction with a history of swordand-sorcery fiction written by Lin Carter? In fact, we can’t be 100% certain the sword-wielder shown above was originally rendered to be Conan rather than a generic barbarian. Still, it’s tempting to muse on an entire early Conan comic drawn in a somewhat earlier version of this style. At left, Gray autographs a copy of Warren’s Creepy magazine at John Benson’s 1966 New York Comicon; with thanks to Bill Schelly and photographer Jack C. Harris. [Art ©2009 the respective copyright holders; photo ©2009 Jack C. Harris.]

16

Conan Before The Bronze Age

Border, during the 1950s, again as related in A/E #80, there were two or three Mexican series featuring the Cimmerian (turned blond) and his lady love Bêlit, under the title La Reina de la Costa Negra (“Queen of the Black Coast,” after the REH story). The series ran almost 60 issues.

(Again, see A/E #80 for details.)

Then, in 1966, Lancer Books began reprinting the Gnome Press versions of Howard’s Conan stories in paperback form. Stunning Frank Frazetta covers helped move millions of copies.

Enter artist Gil Kane. With writer Archie Goodwin helping on the script, Kane released a self-published black-&-white comic called His Name Is… Savage in 1967. A brutal and hard-hitting attempt to do more mature material than Code-approved color comics, Savage was a modern mercenary out of James Bond and Matt Helm, with a dash of Doc Savage thrown in. Although Savage failed after only one issue, Kane had a companion character waiting in the wings.

“I was supposed to do Conan as a sister book to His Name is… Savage in 1967,” he revealed in an interview in The Comics Journal. “The guy who I thought owned the rights to it was my next door neighbor—his name was Marty Greenberg. And he had a little publishing house, Gnome Press. He published all the Conan books and I got copies.”

For a time, Kane had possession of numerous unpublished Howard manuscripts. He envisioned doing the Cimmerian in the same style as Savage—uncompromisingly violent, but with a strong Charles Biro/EC Comics narrative line, evoking a movie voiceover.

“I wasn’t so much interested in Conan swinging his sword,” Kane explained. “I just wanted to get more out of the sword, the swinging, the whole scene, the kind of visceral response you had when you went into a movie. The movie did it all: it gave you sound, music, it colored up, and in every instance, it gave you the moment, and guaranteed the moment, by not merely taking the physical action, but by doing everything humanly possible with sound effects and music, to point out what was happening.

So I wanted to do that in comics. I wanted to use text in that way.”

When Savage collapsed, so did the planned Conan magazine.

But Conan’s spirit continued to exert itself. At virtually the same time, Gerald Page, later the editor of Witchcraft & Sorcery magazine, took a similar stab at the barbarian.

“In the very late ’60s, not that long before I began working for TV Guide,” he recalled via e-mail, “I suggested to Glenn Lord that Conan would make a pretty good comic book character, and he let me do scripts of ‘Queen of the Black Coast’ and ‘Tower of the Elephant’ which he sold for me to James Warren for Creepy or Eerie. I made $45 off those scripts, but I was told that, because of the company’s contract with Archie Goodwin, he’d have to do any such scripts and mine would not be used.

As it turned out, Conan never appeared in Warren’s magazines. The sale would have to have been late ’66 or early ’67,” Page added. “I remember talking to Jeffrey Jones about it at the New York Worldcon.”

Howard’s character continued to break sales records in paperback. This

Turning The Page A recent photo of fantasy author Gerald W. Page, who, a few years before Marvel licensed the rights to Conan, wrote scripts starring Howard’s creation for James Warren’s black-&-white comics. As Will Murray reports, they were paid for but never published.

The Coming Of Kane Gil Kane penciled and inked this Conan illo especially for a house ad in Savage Sword #5 (April 1975) that pushed subscriptions to all eleven (!) of Marvel’s black-&-white comics. Thanks to Michael T. Gilbert for the scan. [Conan art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

did not go unnoticed at Marvel Comics. In 1966, Marvel writer and assistant editor Roy Thomas had happened to pick up a copy of Conan the Adventurer, the very first Lancer paperback. A fan of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ John Carter of Mars, Thomas had been intrigued by what appeared to be a similar sword-wielding swashbuckler. But, instead of a Burroughsian hero, what he termed “a sort of latter-day John Carter of Mars with moxie, his trusty broadsword betwitxt himself and the rayguntoting hordes of lost Atlantis,” Thomas had discovered a fantasy character set in Earth’s antiquity. He hadn’t even finished reading Howard’s “People of the Black Circle.” The book went into his closet… though he’d continued to buy the paperbacks, as they came out, for their Frazetta covers. Still, he would mostly have forgotten about Conan except for the mail coming in to Marvel. Fans wanted to see Marvel take a swing at adapting popular material ranging from Burroughs to J.R.R. Tolkien to Doc Savage. But Conan seemed to be the one they most clamored for.

“And finally came the 1969 Comic Art Convention in New York,” Thomas reminisced in Comics Interview. “Dick Giordano, Creepy publisher Jim Warren, and I composed a panel on ‘Economics in the Comics.’ During the question-and-answer period, someone asked the three of us to say what our particular pet projects were which we’d like to see the comics undertake. I found myself mentioning Conan—since I was beginning to think that he might possibly sell to the same readers, those who had kept Thor and Namor healthy, happy, and alive.”

In the meantime, however, Thomas wound up reading Lin Carter’s

How Robert E. Howard’s Road Of Kings Led To Marvel Comics

17

Out Of Cimmeria?

Barry Smith (now Windsor-Smith) may have intended this early, previously-unprinted drawing to be either Conan, or Kull, or another barbarian altogether—but the hero’s headgear is basically identical to that in a 1969 Conan drawing by the artist that was printed in A/E #80. Thus, this art, too, probably pre-dates Barry’s work on Conan the Barbarian #1. The original art seen here is the version penciled by Barry and inked by Rich Buckler; this scan was retrieved from Heritage Comics’ website by Dominic Bongo. Thanks to Barry for his permission to use this drawing, and to his assistant Alex Bialy for his help. [©2009 Barry Windsor-Smith.]

excitement, a sense of atmosphere and mood, that transcended Burroughs, Carter, and others I had read. Yes—at the risk of sounding anti-intellectual—even old Tolkien himself.

Not as good literature, perchance, as Tolkien and Lieber—but easily the best sword-andsorcery hero of all for adaptation into comics—with Howard’s King Kull, a close runner-up.”

Lee also came around. “I enjoyed it, but I wasn’t a huge fan of Conan,” he revealed in Comic Book Marketplace. “I knew there had been a Conan the Barbarian. I think I may have read a story once, but I wasn’t really into it that much, and it was really Roy Thomas who was the big Conan fan. Roy was the one who talked me into it. I think I reluctantly okayed it because I loved Roy and I hated to ever say no to him. I figured if the kid wants to do it, let him do it. I didn’t think it would turn out to be so successful.”

Thongor, a Conanesque hero set in a fantastic mileau—closer to the John Carter feel he had originally expected from Conan. Once again, it was a Frazetta cover which had helped pull him in.

“Stan liked the idea of Thongor as well as I did, and for the same reasons, and decided that it was I who should discuss the matter with our publisher, Martin Goodman,” Roy recalled “Stan himself has repeatedly stated that he’s not really quite sure what the term ‘sword-and-sorcery’ means, and several attempts at elucidation by frenetic fans hadn’t made the point any clearer in his mind—or mine. Still, if I didn’t know s&s, I knew what l liked—and I rather liked Thongor.”

However, the meager licensing fee Goodman authorized didn’t impress Carter’s agent. Negotiations went nowhere. So Thomas took a second look at Conan.

“Strangely, I discovered that I was enjoying it more this go-round,” he wrote in Marvelmania, the company’s house-produced fanzine . “I found that here was a sensationalistic pulp-writer who really knew his trade. Too much blood-and-gore for my personal, self-styled tastes, with incidental and clumsy—and needless—sex, and a hero who could be a real psychiatrist’s nightmare—but still there was about the Conan stories an

Lee and Thomas initially wanted John Buscema to draw the book, but the Conan license severely limited his art budget.

Ironically, Gil Kane was tapped at one point.

“I was supposed to be the artist in it, but was unable to do it,” Kane claimed in The Comics Journal. “So they got hold of Barry Smith.”

(Thomas feels the page rate was the prime consideration in Kane’s case, as well, since his rate would not have been far below Buscema’s top-of-the-line wage.)

Smith had drawn a similar one-shot character called Starr the Slayer for Marvel’s Creatures on the Loose the year before.

“I was familiar with Barry Smith’s work because he had done a few stories for Marvel; and he’d done some things that hadn’t been printed… drawings of Kull and Thongor-type characters,” Thomas recalled to Comics Interview. “So of the people available to me at the lower end of the rate scale, there was Barry, who was back living in England and not really doing anything for us then, as the logical choice.”

As part of his strategy to juggle the tight budget, Thomas decided to script the first issues himself. He was not a complete stranger to the genre.

In his pre-professional days, he had adapted part of Gardner Fox’s more Burroughesque Warrior of Llarn for his fanzine, Alter-Ego. It was never published there, but eventually appeared in another fanzine, Star-Studded Comics.

Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian premiered with an October 1970 cover date. First-issue sales proved strong—but soon fell into a steady decline.

18

Conan Before The Bronze Age

The book trembled on the edge of extinction. In an effort to eject new interest, Stan was pushing for guest-starring the company’s version of the Norse thunder god, Thor, and Thomas figured he’d have to acquiesce. “We might have made him dressed more primitively,” he explained in Comic Book Artist #2, “but, yeah, Thor would’ve been in there because we would’ve been trying to save a book we cared about.”

However, at a crucial point (starting with issues #8-9), sales improved.

Then, in a weird twist of fate, Barry Smith soon moved on, and the book finally fell to Gil Kane.

“I took over with #17 and did two issues,” Kane told The Comics Journal. “They were very hard to do; there was a million crowds, a million riots and everything. One was inked by Ralph Reese and the other

by Dan Adkins. They both turned out pretty well. But it was hard! I felt that I was working on Prince Valiant material! I couldn’t do three or four pages a day on that stuff, so I gave it up after two issues... I just couldn’t do it fast enough, though I was given it to be the regular artist. Then Buscema took over.”

Actually, Barry returned for half a dozen issues before Buscema was piped aboard. But finally, with issue #25, Roy Thomas was working with his original artistic choice.

“I loved it from the very beginning,” Buscema admitted in Comic Book Artist. “I was disappointed when they didn’t give it to me from the beginning.... I would have preferred doing Conan my entire life. I would rather have worked on Conan all my years at Marvel than that super-hero stuff.”

Conan the Barbarian only grew in popularity in the years that followed, spawning in a final irony a pair of black-&-white magazines, Savage Tales and then Savage Sword of Conan, in the early ’70s. Gil Kane’s original vision had miraculously came to pass. Freed from the constraints of the Comics Code, Thomas could at last let Conan be Conan.

What If Conan The Barbarian Spoke French?

One of the few John Buscema/Roy Thomas collaborations done for color comics in the 1970s-80s that hasn’t been reprinted by Dark Horse is “What If Conan the Barbarian Walked the Earth Today?” from What If? #13 (Feb. 1979). In that tale, the Cimmerian winds up in New York City during the big power blackout of February 1978. The Buscema/Chan cover is re-presented here from a vintage French reprint. RT had Big John add the partlyglimpsed Star Wars poster because at least one early authorized publication put out in conjunction with that 1977 blockbuster film had referred to it as “sword-and-sorcery.” Roy and his then-ladyfriend Danette, now-wife Dann (who was used as the model for the modern-day heroine inside the mag) own the original artwork for this cover. [Cover art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC; Star Wars TM & ©2009 Lucasfilm.]

“Conan was a switch on the super-hero,” Thomas once observed.

“Conan, while he didn’t have any super-powers, was quite superior. It was more like Captain America with a sword. We had a lot of trouble [with the Comics Code Authority].”

Roy Thomas scripted Conan for ten years in various titles, and after he moved on to DC, sheer momentum—and the two 1980s films starring Arnold Schwarzenegger—carried the Marvel version clear to the year 2000—a 30-year triumph. It was a triumph no one could have anticipated.

“I think that Conan strikes a deep chord in people,” Thomas explained in FOOM, another Marvel-produced fanzine, “and touches greatly on hidden fears we all have of the unknown and the unknowable. The character in part represents a desire to have enough strength to cut your way through anything, like the old Alexander the Great solution to the Gordian Knot. You don’t try to untie it; you just take your sword and whack the hell out of it, cut it in two, and then go on to something else.”

The Swords And The Sorcerers part four

19

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]…

Than Spider-Man!” ROY THOMAS Talks—Yes, Again— About Howard’s Hyborian Hero Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Having written numerous times about the early days of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian and Savage Sword of Conan magazines, especially the former, for afterwords in Dark Horse’s Chronicles of Conan trade paperback series, and having spoken about it in part in interviews in A/E #50 & #70, I asked associate editor Jim Amash for ideas on an approach this time around. Jim nimbly came up with questions, I think, which both cover the familiar-to-some ground that needs to be covered, plus a few angles which haven’t been explored before. Between Jim’s interview and Will Murray’s article which precedes it, we hope we’ve covered all the barbarian bases… mostly accompanied by art not recently reprinted by Dark Horse Comics. —Roy.

“I Never Tried Reading [Conan] Again For A Couple Of Years” JIM AMASH: When did you discover the Conan character?

ROY THOMAS: In ’65 or ’66, Conan the Adventurer came out, so I would have been in my middle 20s. The first Robert E. Howard paperback I ever bought—though I didn’t know Roy Thomas (photo) and one of the jewels of his and Dann’s original art collection— “Jewels of Gwahlur,” that is. Artist Nestor Redondo gifted him with this original color prelim for his cover painting for The Savage Sword of Conan #60 (Jan. 1981), which illustrated the L. Sprague de Camp/Lin Carter story “The Ivory Goddess,” a sequel to Robert E. Howard’s “Jewels of Gwahlur.” That issue became the last of 60 in a row scripted (and edited) by Roy, as certain Marvel powers-thatwere held back his five remaining black-&-white “Conan” tales, already completed, in order to break his run on the book for petty reasons one can only guess at. Those five were printed in SSOC #66-70. [Art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.] This photo of Roy was taken for a newspaper in his hometown, The Jackson [Missouri] Journal, for Sept. 23, 1970—a month or so after Conan the Barbarian #1 went on sale. At that time, he had no idea that, decades later, that would be one of the comics for which he is most remembered—or how major a character Conan would become for Marvel! Back then, he couldn’t even have spelled “Arnold Schwarzenegger”! Roy and then-wife Jeanie were visiting his parents, after flying from New York to St. Louis to attend an Elvis Presley concert.

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

20

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

his name then—was Almuric, which was an Edgar Rice Burroughs pastiche. I had that around, but I’d never read it. I’d read of Howard and Conan in Dick Lupoff ’s book on Burroughs [Edgar Rice Burroughs: Master of Adventure, 1966]. I’d read about Conan, but I hadn’t seen anything before the first Lancer paperback.

I’ve expressed this a number of times: I love, still, the cover art of that first book. I always liked Frank Frazetta’s work. I read the back cover, which said something about Atlantis, probably that whole thing about how the ocean drank Atlantis or something of that sort. I thought it would be a little bit more like John Carter, which I liked—that mixture of fantasy and science-fiction. I read the first few pages of “The People of the Black Circle,” and while it was well-written—well, this barbarian comes in, throws this girl over his shoulder, and takes off with her. At this stage, this wasn’t the sort of thing I was interested in it. I kept on buying the paperbacks for the covers, but I never tried reading any of it again for a couple of years.

JA: You told me you’d been getting mail from the fans about doing Conan as a comic book series. Is that when you started taking him seriously?

Ticket To Ride (Left:) Frank Frazetta's iconic cover for Conan the Adventurer, the first Lancer paperback featuring REH's hero, caught the eye of Roy and many others in 1966. This nearly-identical version is from a second edition in 1967.

THOMAS: Yeah, that started around 1967 or ’68. And somewhere along the line, I read (Right:) Roy was partly lured into making Lin Carter’s Thongor in the City of Magicians (1968) the first one of the non-Conan books. The first sword-and-sorcery novel he ever read—so that Thongor nearly became Marvel’s first licensed s&s hero—by sword-and-sorcery book I ever read was Lin its gorgeous Frazetta cover. From the early 1970s through much of the ‘80s, RT owned the original oil Carter’s Thongor in the City of Magicians. painting, which Frazetta later titled “Thor’s Flight.” The image would’ve made a perfect illustration for And that was because it was a combination Robert E. Howard’s second Conan story, “The Scarlet Citadel.” Thanks to Roger Holda for the scan. [©2009 of Conan and John Carter. It was like John the respective copyright holders.]

Carter in various science-fantasy ways, but work, where there are a lot of stretches that are basically more realistic, in Thongor was also rather like Conan when he’d become a king, and Carter a certain sense. But mostly, I think what appealed to me were the same was imitating Howard’s writing as much as Burroughs’. Maybe it helped things that I wrote about in my memo to [Marvel publisher] Martin prepare me for Conan. I read that book and liked it… not a huge amount, Goodman in late ’69 or very early ’70. Stan decided I should write a but I liked it. And fans were writing in, telling us about these books. I memo to Goodman as to why we should do a character like Conan. The started reading them and liking them. I don’t remember how much I read things I mentioned to Goodman were the things that I thought would before we started thinking about getting the rights to do a sword-andappeal to the readers. Magic, I knew, had never really sold a lot of comics, sorcery comic, and then, of course, we ended up with the rights to Conan. if horror wasn’t part of the mix, or else “Doctor Strange“ would have been By the time I started working on Conan comics in earnest, I think I’d a big deal, or “Dr. Fate“ or “The Spectre“ back in the ’40s. None of them read pretty much everything about him that had been published. This were ever big sellers, but at the same time, there was still something of occurred during that intervening year when we were getting vaguely and that element with the fantasy, and that it was more than just swords-andslowly geared up to do a book like that. I mean, after all, we were beaten sandals. by several different companies, right? DC had its “Nightmaster” character And of course, the villains were all magicians. There was the fact that for three issues, and Warren had a few things. Even Wally Wood did a few we had a muscular hero in the vein of Captain America or a Thor, even stories for Marvel, which we forgot to mention in Alter Ego #80. They more so. We were going to have a lot of beautiful women, and that never were non-continuing-character stories that were done even before the hurts anything, but I didn’t play that up. Some of them could be clad in a “Starr the Slayer” that Barry and I did. So there were several things like little less than the street wear in super-hero comics in those days. that out there. There was that “Clawfang, the Barbarian.“ That’s the one that Wally Wood did with Al Williamson.

And then, of course, you had monsters, and Marvel always sold a fair amount of monsters—some of our biggest heroes were the Thing and the JA: What about Conan did you like, and that you thought you were Hulk—so it had all those elements that somewhat appealed to me. And going to be able to sell the readers on liking? even more so, I thought they might appeal to the readers, if we could get THOMAS: What appealed to me was the fact that it was adventure with a past the fact that it was going to look like an ancient/medieval world. I mixture of fantasy as well as swashbuckling elements. What I had liked don’t think I emphasized that point to Goodman... but it was inherent in about John Carter is that you sort-of mixed those elements—and in John the concept, so we had to try to get around it because it was working Carter, the fantasy is much more preeminent than in Robert E. Howard’s against the series in the early days.

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

Kulled From The Lists Besides penciling “Starr the Slayer” and the early issues of Conan the Barbarian, young British artist Barry Smith was tapped at least twice in the early ’70s to be the artist of an abortive “King Kull” project suggested to him by Roy, featuring REH’s Weird Tales precursor to Conan. At one stage Barry prepared several illustrations the pair hoped would convince a paperback publisher to take a flyer with a King Kull graphic novel independent of Marvel— probably around the time Gil Kane’s ill-fated Blackmark was coming out in 1971. Those drawings were printed in The Savage Sword of Conan #3 in ‘74.

Also, probably after the g.n. tryout, Barry was assigned by Marvel to draw a “Kull” story— with Gerry Conway as scripter—for Savage Tales #1 (1971). But, in the 11th hour, based on strong preliminary sales reports on Conan #1, editor Stan Lee opted for a “Conan” exploit in that black-&-white mag instead; so Roy and Barry hurriedly produced their classic adaptation of “The Frost Giant’s Daughter.”

This 1970-71 penciled art, with which Barry gifted Roy some years back and which has never before been published, was probably a concept page for the Savage Tales “Kull”—complete with the artist’s copious notes about ways to differentiate the Atlantean from the Cimmerian. They make interesting, even amusing reading.

Thanks to Barry for permission to print this piece and to his assistant Alex Bialy. [Art ©2009 Barry WindsorSmith; Kull is a trademark of Kull Productions, Inc.]

21

22

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

“I Don’t Remember Anybody Being Especially Enthusiastic” JA: Was “Starr the Slayer,” which appears in Tower of Shadows, considered to be a prototype or a tryout for Conan?

THOMAS: I don’t know what it was supposed to be. In a way, Barry Smith was doing that [i.e., a Conan-type story]… but on the other hand, I think it was just that we wanted to do a story like that, and we’d played around with that type of thing a bit. I think Barry drew some earlier pictures along those lines, but we didn’t intend it as a series. After all, at the end of that story, Starr kills the modern man who is writing his adventures. And however you interpret that, and even though we could have proceeded to do a series, it was definitely not set up to be one. Nor was it an origin story. It was quite the opposite. We just were doing it as a story, something we both wanted to have a little bit of fun doing. We weren’t doing it as a prototype. I don’t think it had any great purpose.

JA: I wondered if it was to gauge reader reaction.

THOMAS: You always have that in mind when you do something like that. I wouldn’t say that wasn’t at all the motivation, but I don’t think it was the primary one.

JA: Between the time Conan is greenlighted, and the first issue hits the stands, did anybody in the office besides you really like the idea?

THOMAS: I don’t remember anybody being especially enthusiastic, but then we didn’t really talk about that kind of thing. We just did our work. I would have liked to have Marie Severin or somebody coming in and say,

“Oh, I really like this,” or whatever. Maybe they did, and I just don’t recall.

JA: The reason I ask is because, at that time, Marvel was trying Westerns and they weren’t really selling. The war books weren’t selling, and it was practically nothing but super-heroes by then. That’s why I’m making a distinction here on Conan, because Conan’s not a super-hero. I thought maybe there might have been kind-of an attitude because of that.

THOMAS: I remember working on the series, but I don’t remember much feedback. I know Stan didn’t have any real feeling for what swordand-sorcery was—he’s said that since, many times. He got a vague idea from our conversations, and he was aware of all that mail we were getting about sword-and-sorcery, and about Doc Savage and Tolkien and Edgar Rice Burroughs, several different things of that sort. But the thing about Conan—or something like Conan—was that, in a considerable portion of the mail coming in, readers suggested our doing the adaptations, or doing a character like Conan. Stan himself didn’t bother to read the stories. I think that, like myself, he thought the first issue wasn’t entirely successful, but it was okay. Parts of it were pretty good and parts of it didn’t look (or read) so good.

JA: When you started the series, how old did you figure the character to be?

THOMAS: At this stage, I had read everything about Conan, so I was aware of the fact that he was in his late teens. At the same time, I didn’t try to get Barry to make him look like a kid. I leaned on the things I’d read by [L. Sprague] de Camp, and by P. Schuyler Miller and John D. Clark, who’d written “A Probable Outline of Conan’s Career” back in the ’30s. Robert E. Howard had actually seen that piece shortly before he died [in 1936], and he apparently approved. He indicated that when Conan was only 17 or so, he was already over six feet tall, though he hadn’t achieved his full growth. So I figured, “Let’s just not say how old he is. He looks like a young guy, but he looks more 20-ish or something like that.” I didn’t really want him to look any younger than that. He obviously was a teenager in the first couple of years of the comic.

JA: Did you have that discussion with Barry about Conan’s age?

THOMAS: I don’t think so. I think it would have been harder if John Buscema had become the original artist. I think he would have made him look older right away. And indeed, as soon as he came in, at a stage when Conan would still have been only 20 or so. John still immediately drew him like a 30-or-so-year-old guy.

“I Was Aging [Conan]” JA: By the time Smith leaves Conan, he’s making him a little older. Do you figure maybe he’s probably early/mid-20s by the time?

THOMAS: By then, Conan probably would have only been about 20, 21 at the very most. He couldn’t have aged more than two or three years.

Bernie’s Barbarian One talented 1970 newcomer who might well have become the first artist of Conan the Barbarian if Barry hadn’t been languishing in London was Bernie Wrightson, whom a number of REH fans championed for the series’ illustrator. This is one of two illustrations Bernie submitted to Marvel as samples… and of course they did garner him first crack at “Kull” a bit later. Whether or not the above hero had originally been intended to be Conan, of course, we dunno. [©2009 Bernie Wrightson.]

JA: But there was a difference. Smith did distinguish, artistically, that Conan had gotten older.

But Buscema comes in, and there’s a big advance in age, at least in my eyes.

THOMAS: Yeah, and of course when Gil did a few issues.

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

JA: Right, because Gil made him look older, too. Did any of that matter to you?

THOMAS: Not really. I figured he looked like a young barbarian. By the time John took over, okay, well, he’s still only in his very early 20s. But hey, people aged faster then, and the life expectancy was probably 12.

JA: When you left the book in 1980, how old did you figure Conan was?

THOMAS: Well, he’s about ten years older, somewhere in his late 20s.

JA: So you were basically trying to age him sort-of realistically.

THOMAS: Well, as far as the stories and in terms of what Howard probably instinctively thought, and what Schuyler and Miller and de Camp covered in their histories of Conan, I was very consciously figuring that a year went by in the stories for every year of comics’ run. So I was aging him. At some stage, I might have had to think about that, because after about 20 years or so, he would have been a king. But I still had five, ten years to go, and I wasn’t worried about that.

23

doing the art. They just didn’t like Barry’s approach to the art. Basically, I ignored that because I had my own feeling of what the art should be. By the second issue, Barry was getting into that very nicely. Within a few issues, he had it down pat, even if there were certain little things where I would have liked things done differently—I would’ve had Conan a little beefier, even from the beginning, etc., because I think that would’ve fit Robert E. Howard’s description a little more. Barry would toss in a bit of subtle characterization that was not really the kind of thing that Howard did in his usual broader characterizations, but it usually fit. There were touches that worked pretty well, and the comic book Conan had to have a little leeway to have its own life, as well as just being Robert E. Howard’s.

So I just never really worried too much about it.

I defended Barry’s work in the comics. Occasionally, I took an overly critical reader to task in the letters pages. I couldn’t do too much of that, because Stan didn’t really like me to tell off readers. His whole thing was to make the readers your friends, so he wouldn’t have appreciated my actually saying what I thought of some of the readers’ comments. I tried to word it as diplomatically as possible. You know how diplomatic I can be.

JA: I had wondered about it myself, but then you’ve got him appearing in Giant-Size Conan and Savage Sword of Conan, so you had to fit all these stories into your continuity. I was always under the impression that you definitely had a continuity in mind with regard to where you were going, all along.

THOMAS: Basically, it wasn’t my continuity so much as it was the continuity of Howard and some of the things

by Miller, Clark, and de Camp, which I basically liked, even though we didn’t have the rights to use any of the de Camp stories until the last couple of years of my first tenure on the book. In that last year or two, I got busy and adapted a lot of de Camp. So I was following that. It was all laid out for me, through his being 70 or so, sailing off into the West. Of course, some of those books didn’t come out until after we started publishing Conan the Barbarian. Remember, in the 1970s his story was still being fleshed out in prose by de Camp and others even while the Conan comic books were going on. I was able to grab all of that into Conan.

I knew that the prose stories, as written by de Camp and others, were not going to take any real note of the comics, so I figured the comics were going to have to be like Mohammed going to the mountain. I was going to have to adjust my continuity to theirs, because I thought it was better that the two were adjusted, and I figured why not? There wasn’t anything those writers were doing in terms of the basic continuity that I was opposed to. If I had been, I could have ignored anything I wanted to at the time. I was under no obligation to follow it. I just felt, why not do so, because what they’re doing makes sense, and it would probably be to the advantage of both characters to have the same basic life story unfolding in the comics as in the paperbacks.

“We Were Poised At One Stage To Bring In Thor” JA: Early on, you said you had gotten hate mail.

THOMAS: Mostly for Barry, actually. A little was aimed at the comics in general, and I’m sure there were people who didn’t like the writing.

Mostly, though, it was from readers who saw those Frazetta covers, and this wasn’t Frazetta. They might have reacted a little differently if Frank Brunner or Bernie Wrightson or somebody along those lines had been

A Barbarian Undreamed Of The drawing above by Barry appeared in Savage Tales #3 (Feb. 1974), as the fullpage lead-in to an editorial by RT. Since it wasn’t drawn by Barry specifically for the magazine, only he could say whether it was meant to be Conan or not.

Thanks to Barry Pearl for the scan. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

(Center:) Barry at a 1974 New York comicon, from an issue of Comics Buyer’s Guide. The other side of that page contained the startling news that a Carl Barks painting of the Disney Ducks had been sold “for over $2000.” We hear they sell for a bit more nowadays. [©2009 Krause Publications.]

24

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

JA: Yeah, right. I do. [laughs] Since you were essentially—early on, at least —the writer/editor— THOMAS: Well, not officially, but unofficially. Stan did have a hand with covers and certain things here and there, but I was the editor, even if I wasn’t totally 100% the authority on what was going on in the book. And Martin Goodman was still there in the early days, too, and the covers had to get past him. I was the sort-of editor, but everybody’s got to serve somebody, as Bob Dylan said.

JA: Did either Stan or Martin Goodman try to pressure you to make Conan fit into the Marvel way, or use a guest star like Thor, for instance?

THOMAS: Stan did, when sales were kind of bottoming out, as sales sank issue to issue between #1 and #7. Of course we were always at least two or three issues ahead of the on-sale issue in terms of what we were working on, and Stan was really pushing us in to bring in Thor. We were poised at one stage to bring in Thor, wearing a more primitive version of his outfit, and it would have been a bit different, like an early Thor. But I don’t know what good that would have done Conan, except for one or two issues. We weren’t likely to have brought in Iron Man and Spider-Man. The only character Stan specifically mentioned was Thor. If that had worked, he might have pushed for a time-travel story to bring Conan into the Marvel Universe, but we never did discuss that.

So when I finally did bring him into the present, in What If #13, it was a story I just wanted to do, I didn’t want any Marvel characters in there, and I kept them out. Later on, people had him meet Wolverine or Captain America, but I would have had none of that.

Sword-and-sorcery just weren’t Stan’s kind of thing. And, after a while, Conan just looked like an experiment that wasn’t going to succeed, down there with Western Gunfighters and Tower of Shadows and a lot of other books that had seemed like they might have some promise, but which faded out after a little while.

JA: What do you think turned it around?

THOMAS: Well, part of it’s just people getting used to seeing it on the stands. But what really turned it around was Stan insisting on something Barry and I should’ve seen from the beginning. The menaces on the covers needed to be more humanoid. We had too many giant animals on the early covers. There was that daughter of Zukala turning into a tiger.

Okay, she’s a human villain, but she’s also a woman, hardly the ideal opponent for a Marvel hero. And there was a giant bat—wonderful! The image is by Barry and “Devil-Wings over Shadizar” was a nice story, I think, but again, it’s a giant bat. There was the “Grim Grey God” figure on the cover of #3, but even he just looked like a big guy. And on #2, there‘d been apes; they were wearing armor, but they were still apes. In “Tower of the Elephant,” in #4, we had him fighting a spider because he didn’t fight Yara the wizard anyway. By the time we got to #7, he’s fighting a manheaded serpent, but it’s still an animal kind of thing. That’s when Stan made his observation, but at the same time, interestingly, maybe it would have happened anyway.

In #8, Barry and I drew a story based on a one-page synopsis by Howard. De Camp had turned it into a prose story, but we didn’t use that because we didn’t have the right to adapt it. We made up our own story based on Howard’s synopsis. We had Conan fight two things in that issue.

One is the giant creature, which Barry drew to look like a great big Gila monster—a wonderful job. The other was the tall skeletons in armor.

Now, we might have been tempted to have him fighting the Gila monster on the cover. I don’t remember if Stan looked through the issue—I don’t think so—but maybe at least partly because of his pressure, I ended up having Barry do the skeleton-in-armor thing for the cover. And the sales, for the first time since the beginning, jumped up.

The next issue was already probably in the works, a non-Conan story

by Howard that I had fit into what seemed the right spot, in the story “The Garden of Fear.” It had a giant winged guy with bat-like wings, but at least he was humanoid, and fit Stan’s criteria. While we still had some animal-type characters here and there after #8-9, those two issues, with their rising sales, turned it around. The next thing you know, we had a modest hit on our hands. Before long, the mag was even back to being monthly.

JA: In what time period did you figure these stories took place?

THOMAS: Howard was always pretty vague. I think de Camp and the others had begun to think that maybe the stories happened like 12,000 or so years ago, long before the rise of any current civilization. It was always vague as to when Atlantis was sunk. Some stories would have it like 100,000 years ago. That’s obviously ridiculous. It didn’t really matter because, really, it didn’t follow any time line at all. It could have been just a couple thousand years, it could have been a hundred thousand year; it could have been a parallel dimension, really, as far as the world cares. It is what you say it is, and you don’t pay any attention to it. You set it in the past and you don’t think about it too much.

JA: I remember seeing that map of Conan’s world and I was wondering how accurate that map was to the real world.

Half A Barbarian Is Better Than None To the best of our knowledge, this partial-drawing of Conan has never been reprinted since it framed the contents page in Savage Tales #3.

And no, there was no “other half” of this piece. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [©2009 Conan Properties International, L.L.C.]

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

25

THOMAS: It was accurate in that Howard placed his map over a map of the world, but with a lot of the coastlines and other details altered. He drew a map—though I’ve never been 100% sure that the map printed was actually his, or one that somebody else redrew after seeing the one he’d done. It was clear that certain things were in certain places, like Europe was where the main Hyborian kingdoms were. In the south where Stygia was, and points south, that was Africa, starting with Egypt and the northern coast of Africa, even though there was no Mediterranean Sea. Over in the East, where there’d be Khitai and Vendhya, well, that’s India and China. It really had a geographical feeling, except that it was just one great big continent, plus whatever there might be on the other side of the world. Howard had it in mind that his map fit over the Earth, but that the Earth had changed a lot in the 10,000 or so years.

“As Time Went On, We Were Able To Push The Envelope More” JA: Conan wasn’t a super-hero, but he’s the protagonist, and he’s the first one at Marvel who really does a lot of killing. Did you ever hear anything from the Code, or from Stan or from Martin Goodman, about that sort of thing?

THOMAS: I don’t remember discussing it, but I was aware that we weren’t going to be able to show swords going into people. I wasn’t prepared to fight against that, because nobody was going to take my side on it. At first, I was actually concerned that I might have to have people hitting each other with the flat of their swords. I didn’t want to do that, but what we ended up doing was having a lot of stabbing off-stage and in shadows. John Buscema later developed a really nice way of dressing guys in capes, where you’d see the view from the back, and it’s like the sword has gone all the way through the guy and was now pushing out the cape that was on his back, without going through. So we managed to suggest a lot of stabbing without actually showing it.

JA: I thought Buscema’s Conan was more savage, more violent, than Smith’s.

THOMAS: If it is, it’s probably because, as time went on, we were able to push the envelope more. Maybe it was a natural inclination on Barry’s part or maybe I was timid, I’m not quite sure. But we were taking it easy in the early days. Sometimes it did look like Conan was just hitting people with a sword, but that was because we didn’t want a lot of trouble with the Code. We had a little more trouble with the Code on Conan than on the average comic, but not really a lot. We did tend to have trouble over sex, like with “The Love Dance of Bêlit” in issue #58, rather than the violence.

That’s because we were self-censoring. We were reining ourselves in, or else we‘d have had a lot of trouble with the Code if we’d tried to push through the things they do nowadays, or anything close to it.

JA: Well, it’s obvious when you introduce Red Sonja that she and Conan are in the water together...

THOMAS: Oh, yeah. Well, that was just Barry playing around. And the uncensored version of that page, which was first printed in an early issue of Comic Book Artist, was quite a bit different from the one that got printed. I think some of that Stan might have had changed before it was ever sent to the Code, if he’d seen in. I’m not sure how much they sent back for changes. I know that when we reprinted “The Frost Giant’s Daughter” in the color comic, after it had first appeared in Savage Tales #1, we had to censor it a little. We may have made a few changes before we sent it to the Code, but they sent it back, wanting even more changes.

So we ended up with two quite different versions, at least in some panels.

The story originally done for Savage Tales #2 was first published in Conan #12 as “The Dweller in the Dark.“ We had to cover up the girl and change a few other things here and there.

But yeah, in that scene in Conan #24 with Sonja, that was, shall we say,

“White-Haired, Sullen-Eyed, Sword In Hand…“ One of the last of Barry’s pre/proto/post-”Conan” drawings to see print in The Savage Sword of Conan popped up in issue #12 (July 1976). Though the illo was a few years old by then, the lack of blacks In the protagonist’s hair, as well as the unfamiliar necklace, makes a full ID problematical, but that didn’t stop editor Roy T. from snapping it up for use with a text article. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

“explosive” in the original version, and some of the things we got through the Code were too subtle for them. But most of it was just that Conan’s hands couldn’t be shown grabbing her rear end under the water. Then hands were drawn disappearing under the water, and we had to change that.

JA: I always wondered if Smith did that because he knew he was leaving, and figured “let them work it out.”

THOMAS: Maybe. But he ended up doing the changes, so he wasn’t just drawing the story and running out the door irresponsibly. He wouldn’t have wanted Marvel to make the changes, because we would have had to do them, and then he wouldn’t have liked the work as well. So he ended up doing double work. One thing Barry wasn’t was lazy.

“Barry Contributed A Lot” JA: Sometimes Barry Smith was in America and other times he was in England. So I’ve always been curious about the amount of contact you had.

THOMAS: He didn’t go back and forth a lot. It’s just that he came to the

26

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

getting other comic work while he was in London, so he could concentrate on Conan for the first few months. And, in the meantime, we were trying to work to get him back in the country.

Most of that was done by a young woman in the office named Mimi Gold. I think she was interested in Barry above and beyond. [mutual chuckling] I don’t remember if they‘d met when he was here the first time, but eventually, she did the real spadework and put in a lot of hours. I remember the summer of 1970, which is about the time Conan #1 or 2 was just coming out. My first wife Jean and I went over to England, and that’s where Barry and I plotted #7 together. Mimi had gone ahead, and she was with Barry when we arrived. But we were working to get him back to the States. And soon after that, Barry managed to get back into the country. The credit is mostly due to Mimi Gold.

JA: Overall, how much would you say Barry was contributing to the story?

Brawling Barbarians This penciled-and-inked panel by Barry looks like an outtake from an early issue of Conan the Barbarian—but If it is, it was removed by the artist himself, before writer/editor Roy saw it. Once again, that could be anybody under that “yak” helmet…but the action is pure early Windsor-Smith. Thanks to Barry, and to David Hamilton. [©2009 Barry Windsor-Smith.]

THOMAS: It grew as time went on. In the early days, I was giving him written plots that were several pages long. Even on “Tower of the Elephant,“ where we had the actual prose story, I wrote at least 2 or 3 pages of notes, like a full synopsis, although then he added a few touches.

He had the wizard Yara levitating at one point, which I wasn’t really wild about because that wasn’t part of Howard’s story, but it didn’t hurt anything, so what the heck. But mostly, Barry followed the story. The first several issues were written out as real synopses, just like I would have given to any artist at the time, if not more.

States and he was drawing here, and he didn’t have a “green card.” We were kind-of sloppy—we never asked him for one. [laughter] But his friend Steve Parkhouse came with him and did a little writing, and we didn’t ask him, either. And then suddenly, I was told—I never myself talked to anybody in Immigration and Naturalization—that they gave him a very short time to get out of the country, or they were going to toss him in jail. So he went back to England.

But as time went on, gradually, a couple of stories may have been plotted over the phone. That story done for Savage Tales #2 that wound up in Conan the Barbarian—that may have been done with a short phone conversation. I do know that, by the time he left, he was contributing more to the plots. Now, in the case of “Shadow of the Vulture”—the story that introduced Red Sonja—he didn’t contribute much in the way of the plot, because the story was mostly Howard’s. He added some touches here and there: Conan kicking a dog, which I didn’t actually like, [chuckles], and a couple of things like that. But basically, that was Robert E. Howard’s story, so Barry and I didn’t need to add much to it.

We kept him with a little bit of work here and there, not fully employed, but he did several mystery stories, including the one with Starr the Slayer. He was in England when we were told that John Buscema could not draw Conan because Martin Goodman wouldn’t pay his rate.

Gil Kane’s rate was too high, too, or he might’ve had the nod, since to a great extent Stan left the choice to me, after John had to bow out. John and Gil were the only two I seriously thought about who were already working for Marvel. There were at least two other artists then working at Marvel that Stan suggested who had somewhat lower rates, but I didn’t want them doing it. I opted for Barry, who was in England, and really needed the work.

On the other hand, when we had new stories, he contributed in varying degrees. After he returned from England, we would get together and talk things over. I can’t think of any instance where the initial impetus for a story came from him, because I knew where I wanted to be going with the direction of the comic. But within those parameters, Barry contributed a lot. And if there was some sort of monster or situation he might want to draw, there was usually a way to accommodate him. By the time of our last color-comics story, “The Ballad of Red Sonja,” he had a lot to do with the plotting, fitting into the general war story that was my particular interest. He added the swimming sequence and several other things.

The Starr story had established to Stan that Barry could do that kind of work. I think I got a few minor phone charges reimbursed, and Barry wrote something on his cover rough for Conan #3 about a phone bill.

Marvel wasn’t real good about reimbursement back then, and the phone rates were pretty high in those days. So basically, Barry and I communicated by letters. It was going to take a week or so to get there and back, or the occasional brief phone call. That was basically it.

The only problem we ever had was when he tricked me into using the word “wank” in #24 by assuring me, when I asked him pointblank, that it was not a dirty word in England. I was suspicious, but I decided I’d trust him. I never would have done it a second time, but I did once. [mutual laughter] It was a minor infraction, but it could’ve gotten us in a little trouble. It could’ve looked like we were trying to sneak something in past the Code and corrupt public morals. That was a source of annoyance, but it was only a bit of impish fun on Barry’s part. Well, maybe more. Maybe because he knew that was the last issue he was going to do, maybe he didn’t care if we got in trouble, I don’t know. [mutual chuckling] You’d have to ask Barry about that. It’s no big deal. In the long run, what’s amusing now is that, when they reprint the story, nobody bothers to change it. And nowadays, everybody knows what “wank” is English slang for. But in that day, most Americans didn’t know that term. I learned it as soon as the issue came out, but I didn’t know it before.

It was a frustrating experience. It was much more difficult then to work with somebody in another country than it is now, but we managed it. It was one of those rare times when Martin Goodman’s cheapness worked to the advantage of the comic to some extent, though we’d have done well under Buscema, too. But we got that work out of Barry, partly because of Goodman’s penuriousness, and partly, simply, because Barry was over there, and he just poured himself into that work. He wasn’t going to get distracted by too many other things because he couldn’t think about

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

27

Red Nails In The Sunset Two sterling examples of Barry’s art in the early post-Marvel Conan years.

(Left:) The 2008 coffee-table-size Rode Spijkers (Dutch for Red Nails) reprinted the Thomas/Smith adaptation of that REH tale, and Barry’s rendering of the poem “Cimmeria,” for an appreciative audience in the Netherlands—behind a cover sporting one of Barry’s sophisticated barbarian illustrations done in the later ‘70s or so. [©2009 Barry Windsor-Smith.]

(Right:) In its heyday, the popular National Lampoon magazine had Barry do a Conanesque treatment of novelist (and battler) Norman Mailer. Artist Alan Kupperberg, who provided this scan of the original art, says he made the copy at DC Comics: “[DC production honcho] Jack Adler did the color seps for NatLamp A.D. Michael Gross [art director]. I used to order the blue-lines form Altar Press for Jack. Then I would dry-mount the 2-ply bristol board of stiff Illustration board, because Jack worked wet.” If you say so, Alan. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: Smith quit, what, three times?

tabloid reprints, after he’d quit doing any “Conan” work anyway.

THOMAS: I guess, in a way. The first time he quit the book, we turned to Gil Kane. By the time Gil wanted to leave, after two issues, Barry had told me that he wouldn’t mind coming back… and, while I wouldn’t have pushed Gil off the book to bring him back, it turned out to be convenient for us both. Then Barry left again after #24. I guess the other time he quit was after we did “Red Nails” in Savage Tales #2-3. But of course, that time he wasn’t splitting the book because he was no longer its regular artist. He just quit doing Conan after “Red Nails,” though he still drew part of that Bran Mak Morn story [“Worms of the Earth”], and maybe he would have done a Savage Sword sometime if he hadn’t left Marvel entirely.

He allowed one of his Gorblimey Press drawings—it featured either Conan or somebody that looked a lot like him—as a cover of one of our tabloid reprints. The only stricture was that he be allowed to color it, which was fine with everybody. Somehow or other... and at that time I wasn’t editor-in-chief, so I was sort-of in and out of the office… I wasn’t there. [Production manager] John Verpoorten had to send that cover out.

He told me he tried to get hold of Barry, but couldn’t reach him, or something. He ended up getting it colored in the office in a hurry, claiming he didn’t have time to wait. Barry got furious because of this and took some of it out on me, and I was very apologetic because we’d made a verbal agreement with Barry, even though I myself didn’t break it.

JA: Did you find him difficult to work with? When he would quit, would he be a pain about it?

THOMAS: No, no, no. We always got along very well. There are always going to be resentments when you have two people working together.

After all, I was the one who basically had to say yes or no at the end, just as Stan could say yes or no to me, so it wasn’t quite an equal partnership.

But I felt we got along pretty well, and I tried to be as accommodating as I could. The only time he got really upset was when we did one of those

Other than that, Barry and I got along very well. When he came back to the States in ’71 or so, I threw a surprise party in Jeanie’s and my apartment for him, and Barry showed up with Mimi and was much surprised. He immediately fled into our bedroom and didn’t come out for a long while. [mutual laughter] I don’t think the party was much appreciated by him, but it was well-intentioned. We were trying to make him comfortable and welcomed back. But these were minor blips, basically.

28

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

“Gil [Kane] Knew About Robert E. Howard And Conan Long Before I Did” JA: The two issues that Gil Kane did were #17 and 18. How much talking did you and Gil do on those two issues?

THOMAS: Not a lot, because Gil knew about Robert E. Howard and Conan long before I did. In fact, by then, I may well have already bought his Gnome Press collection of hardcovers which he’d had for years. He wanted to do Conan even before he did His Name Is Savage. He was the one who wanted to adapt “The Gods of Bal-Sagoth” as a Conan story.

And of course, that was in line, very much, with what I was doing. It really fit the timeline, and I don’t know if he knew that or not. Anyway, we just talked it over a little. I doubt if there was a written synopsis. By that time, Gil and I had worked together on Captain Marvel and a couple of other things. We saw each other socially. He had a studio for a while, and I’d sometimes go over there after work. He knew that story, I’d read that story, so we could just talk about how to turn it into a “Conan” story. Actually, we changed it almost not at all. There’s very little sorcery in “Bal-Sagoth,” and we didn’t try to add very much. We just adapted it into a 40-some page comics story.

My main contribution, I think, was with the big barbarian who becomes a buddy of Conan’s—to make him the guy I had introduced in #6, the thief Fafnir. I had made up this idea—or maybe it was Barry and I together—of introducing a couple of

Gil Kane And Friend Gil Kane, in a 1970s photo—and a 1975 head shot he penciled for a fan. While he may well have intended the latter to be his graphic novel hero Blackmark, Ye Editor suspects that, if Gil had gotten a chance to do that black-&-white Conan mag that Ron Goulart talks about back on p. 16, he might well have drawn him just so, with shorter hair than he inherited from Barry Smith. With thanks to Anthony Snyder.

[Art ©2009 Elaine Kane.]

characters who were takeoffs on Fritz Leiber’s Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, whom I named Fafnir and Blackrat. I thought, “Well, we’ll just bring back that guy and make him Conan’s red-headed companion in ‘Bal-Sagoth.’” It worked out beautifully, as inked by Ralph Reese and Dan Adkins. Beautiful stuff. Brunner and Romita inked the covers, and those issues sold very well, especially the second one.

JA: In the ’70s, you two also did the King-Size Conan stories adapting the novel Conan the Conqueror, a.k.a. The Hour of the Dragon. And later, when you come back to Conan in the ’90s, I think Gil did a few issues with you. Was the relationship the same on these other instances, also?

THOMAS: Probably pretty much. Again, both Gil and I were quite familiar with Conan the Conqueror, so I think we probably just talked over a few details. I wanted to work in an image of Red Sonja at one point, when Conan’s thinking about his past life—though, from the art, it looks as if Romita penciled her in later. But for the most part, it was straight out of the Howard story, except I wanted to have Conan a bit more involved in the climactic confrontation with the wizard Xaltotun, which he isn’t in the novel. I’m sure there wasn’t much, if anything, in the way of a written synopsis.

We never got a chance to finish it together because Gil was always wandering off. He’d even wandered off by our second Captain Marvel story… somehow we both wandered off on “Iron Fist” after that single issue of Marvel Premiere … Gil wandered off after four issues adapting Conan the Conqueror. It was hard to keep Gil committed to finishing a

Phantasmagorical Free-For-All At the time of Savage Sword of Conan #1, in which this house ad drawn by Alfredo Alcala appeared, there were ten Marvel black-&-white comic magazines. Most of them soon faded… but the Conan title went on for well over 200 issues! [Conan art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC; other art & text ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

project, because a combination of his going for the main chance on one hand, and economic necessities on the other, would often lead him off into other directions. It got a bit frustrating at times, but I was always willing and eager to work with him the next time the opportunity came up.

JA: I take it that Gil’s thoughts about the Conan character were close to yours?

THOMAS: I think so. I don’t know how much we really discussed it. We both agreed that Conan was just one of these guys that you throw everything at, and then he comes back and demolishes you. We had conversations about Conan in the early days of the color comic, long before he started working on it. He was always interested in Conan, and I think we basically saw the characters the same way, except I think Gil probably always wanted to draw him looking the way he tended to draw him. You know, the loincloth kind of look. But in Howard’s stories, Conan sometimes wore different outfits, and I think Gil would’ve preferred to pick one look for Conan to carry him through. I was more likely to want to change that look and not give him a “costume.”

For instance, Barry and I had started off with Conan wearing that helmet with the horns, which was taken from the “Starr the Slayer” story.

That was basically our nod to the idea of a “Conan costume,” for reader identification. And then after a while Barry felt, well, we didn’t really need it anymore, so he just dropped it in #6, and I thought that was a good idea. Later on, when John Buscema and I did the “Queen of the Black Coast” storyline, Conan was supposed to be wearing a horned helmet, chainmail, and a cape, and so that’s what we gave him.

“John [Buscema] Never Really Repeated Himself” JA: Speaking of John Buscema, when he started on Conan, how much did he know about the character?

THOMAS: Well, he’d read a book or two by then, because we sent him some paperbacks when he’d been scheduled to draw the first issue. I don’t think he read Conan stories for enjoyment. I think some of the stuff he probably just read as I gave it to him to adapt. But he got the essence; he knew enough. He wasn’t like Gil or me, who had read just about everything by that stage.

JA: I had wondered about John’s contributions to plots. He didn’t know Conan as well as you or Gil, so did he contribute less to plots than Gil Kane?

THOMAS: What he would contribute to plots would be mostly the action in the individual fights or things of that sort.

We’d talk of the general storyline, or I’d write that out. But he’d have a lot of leeway to do the fights and other things.

Occasionally he’d toss in a bit of business, and it was almost always in character. In terms of plot, the kind of thing he would do—and I’m not denigrating him in any way, shape, or form, because he was terrific at it—was really the comic book equivalent of “in-betweening.” There’d be the main action he’d have to do, getting from here to there; you know, Conan fights a

Buscema And The Barbarian John Buscema’s mug shot from the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual—juxtaposed with an autographed, partly-inked page from his lush 1991 graphic novel Conan the Rogue. Big John plotted, penciled, inked, and even colored that volume, and it was one of his best Conan jobs ever. Roy was privileged to be asked by John to dialogue it. Thanks to an unknown donor. [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

29

bunch of guys. Well, I wasn’t going to choreograph that fight for him.

Sometimes I might’ve had some particular thought in mind about a weapon he was using, or about this or that. But mostly, I would leave it to John.

Sometimes he just had Conan slashing, and it looked just like every other “Conan” story. But, of course, it never really was, because John never really repeated himself. Even if it’s the same kind of fight, the figures were not swipes of his old drawings. By the time he’d done a couple of “Conan” stories, he knew enough. If he needed to know anything particularly about Conan’s life or attitude, I could have told him, but there really wasn’t that much by that stage to be told.

“There Were A Few Usual Marvel Touches That I Didn’t Use In Conan” JA: Psychologically, what kind of person did you see Conan as being?

THOMAS: I don’t know that I stopped to think about it a lot. I started writing it, and I just kept writing it. I knew that, even though he was often surrounded by a lot of people, he was a loner type. We never got inside his head that much. That’s why I came up with the idea of not having any thought balloons in Marvel’s “Conan.” I outlawed them at the beginning.

Stan was horrified when he found out [mutual chuckling]—which he learned when we were discussing the first issue of Kull the Conqueror, rather than Conan the Barbarian.

30

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

murderer and a boxer in a sense. Maybe that’s a good idea.

THOMAS: I just thought we didn’t need to read his thoughts. Most of what he thought was inherent in what he said, or in what he did. Once in a while, there were little hints in his thoughts which would make their way into captions, because Howard would get you inside his head occasionally, but always once removed. Howard was walking a tightrope between wanting to have a guy who was a mercenary soldier type, and at the same time, making him gallant, because people don’t want to make a hero out of somebody whose motives are all banal and venal. So there had to be a noble side to him, but he’s also a rough-hewn kind of character.

But that’s a staple of fiction, too, even though it was light years from John Carter of Mars. That was one of the great differences between the two. In fact, in some ways, that’s why his hero Esau Cairn in Almuric, which was Howard’s John Carter novel, is so different. It’s because he has Conan’s personality in a John Carter world. And that made it quite different from the usual Edgar Rice Burroughs pastiche.

JA: Did the lack of a Comics Code matter to you when you were doing the Savage Sword stories?

THOMAS: Not a lot, but we wanted to have a little more blood and sex. I mean, there’s actually nudity in some of those stories. Then Marvel came up with a policy against nudity, even in the black-&-white books. They weren’t very consistent. For a while, Stan would think, “Well, these are more adult books. There’s nothing wrong with nudity.” I mean, we weren’t going to have anything too graphic in there, but having a girl run around naked and bare-breasted for a few panels wasn’t going to hurt anything, so okay, so we did it. Buscema didn’t mind. The violence in Savage Sword was a little more graphic, but we weren’t really looking to push the envelope too much, just a little bit.

We All Have Our Crosses To Bear

JA: I didn’t think the tone of the stories was that different, but you weren’t going to change the characters and motivations because you had no Code.

In The Savage Sword of Conan #5 (April 1975), artists John Buscema (penciler) and Tony DeZuniga (inker) teamed up to adapt the REH story “A Witch Shall Be Born,” which features the far-famed crucifixion scene. Not long ago, Tony did his own version of that image for Belgian collector Dominique Leonard.

Thanks to both gents for sharing it with us. [Conan TM & ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

THOMAS: Yeah, it was still a Marvel comic, but it had to be the same character. The character was mainly based on Howard’s hero anyway, and I don’t think that was changed that much. I don’t read the comics being done now, but I assume they’re much more violent, but I have no idea how different that Conan might be from, say, the Conan we did.

I had to explain to Stan that there were a few usual Marvel touches that I didn’t use in Conan. One was thought balloons. I wanted this to be different from a regular Marvel book, and I felt like I could do enough with captions. In some ways, that made it a little less easy for some readers, because thought balloons look like word balloons, while captions don’t. But I felt like this was a little more literary, and that we shouldn’t have thought balloons.

And the other thing was the non-verbal sound effects that I also banished from the book. That was what came up, actually, because Stan wanted put a big “KLANG” from a sword in the first issue of Kull that Ross Andru and Wally Wood had done. Stan could have forced me to add it, but he didn’t. There were never any sound effects in a “Conan” story I ever did, except I think Neal Adams tossed a little one somewhere and I must’ve missed it.

Now, I wouldn’t say that, once in a while, sound effects wouldn’t have made sense, because it was tricky to get by without them. I just didn’t want to use them, and if I wasn’t going to use big “klangs,” then I wasn’t going to use a little “tap, tap, tap” if somebody was walking, either, although sometimes that caused me problems. It was just a stylistic thing I did. I never announced it, I just did it, and that’s why Stan didn’t know about it for about a year.

JA: Because of the lack of thought balloons, I always thought there was a part of Conan we’re not going to get to, maybe because Conan’s a

“Sales of Conan the Barbarian Were Probably Two Or Three Hundred Thousand” JA: At Conan’s height of popularity, do you have any idea what the sales were like?

THOMAS: I probably did at one time. I don’t recall what the print runs were, except I think they would have been a few hundred thousand, and the comic would have sold 50 to 60% of that, sometimes more. So the sales of Conan the Barbarian were probably two or three hundred thousand… quite good. The sales of Savage Sword were less, maybe a hundred thousand or so, but that book was a tremendous profit-maker because, even if you paid a bit more for a painted cover, there was no interior color, in a magazine that’s priced several times more than a regular comic book. I feel fairly certain that, for a number of years in the later ’70s, between the two books—and especially because of Savage Sword—Conan probably was making as much money, or more, for the company than the several Spider-Man books were, simply because the Spider-Man titles had a heavier expense up front and a lower percentage of profit.

It’s always been instructive to me that, when a Marvel licensee was making medallions, one of the very first ones they did was Conan. It wasn’t Iron Man or some other character. They did Spider-Man, the FF, the Hulk, and Conan. This meant Conan had been accepted as one of the

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

three or four major Marvel heroes, and it was helped along by the fact that Marvel could arrange merchandising at that stage. Conan could appear on the Marvel Calendar, on posters, and so forth. After the very late ’70s or the beginning of the ’80s, different merchandising arrangements were made whereby the new corporation Conan Properties took those rights back, which made sense for them—but, effectively, I think it hurt the Conan comics.

In the long run, Marvel’s lack of merchandising rights contributed to the fact that, after the movies had come out in the early ’80s, the comics’ sales declined. Even though Captain America or some other Marvel hero might meet him in a story or two, Conan somehow no longer seemed a part of the Marvel Universe, because they couldn’t throw him on a calendar or do any real cross-promotion with him. You know, those first few calendars in ’75, ’76, ’77—Conan’s in there along with Howard the Duck and Spider-Man and Dracula and all the rest. Once you take him out of there and other places, he isn’t really a Marvel character any longer.

It had always been a tightrope, though, because I’d wanted to keep the other Marvel characters out of his universe anyway. But I didn’t mind integrating him in merchandising. I thought that was great. I wanted to establish him as a Marvel character. I just didn’t want to have him gueststar with Thor, or vice versa.

JA: Did you figure your readers on Conan were probably a little older than the average?

THOMAS: Yes. Also, we seemed to have a slightly larger percentage of women, for some reason. We got slightly more letters from females on Conan than we did on the average super-hero book, and certainly the audience was older. I did never do any research on it. I just had that feeling.

31

JA: Why do you think Conan had a number of female readers? Because he’s a male chauvinist, you know.

THOMAS: Yes, he is. But somehow or other, just because he isn’t wearing a super-hero Spandex costume, I think somebody could relate to him, for the same reason that women in those days didn’t tend to read super-hero comics. It’s weird, because for some reason, women seemed attracted to the Conan character, despite the fact that there wasn’t that much, in some ways, to be attracted to, I wouldn’t think.

JA: Maybe it was a physical thing because he’s bare-chested so much of the time.

THOMAS: I don’t know. That’s something somebody else will have to answer.

“The First Great Love Of Conan’s Life” JA: I know you had to use Bêlit because Howard used her, but did it ever seem strange to you that a loner like Conan would spend the kind of time that he did with her?

THOMAS: No, because the thing is—she’s referred to by de Camp and others as “the first great love of Conan’s life,” and probably she is. But on the other hand, it was really a relationship of convenience. I mean, Conan’s on a ship that is attacked by her pirate ship, and if he hadn’t taken up with her, he would have been killed. It served his purposes because, all of a sudden, he becomes a pirate, and instantly he’s like second-incommand. Of course Howard didn’t have to worry about these things, because from the moment the two of them get together until the day she’s killed, he covers that whole period of months, maybe years, in a couple of paragraphs all in the same story, “Queen of the Black Coast.” Howard never mentioned Bêlit in any other Conan prose story, not even in Hour of the Dragon, where he re-meets several pirates from his days

Conan The Commercial During the days when Marvel did some sub-licensing on Its version of Conan, he ranked with Spidey and the Hulk (and the not-shown Fantastic Four) as heroes to be emblazoned on silver and bronze medallions. The ad at left appeared In FOOM! magazine #5 (Spring ‘74).

Below are Jack Kirby’s pencils for the cover of the Marvel Comics Memory Album Calendar 1977. When John Romita inked them, he redrew the Cimmerian’s face and hair, possibly at Stan Lee’s request. Also as per usual, Jack forgot to draw the spider symbol on the Web-Slinger’s chest. Roy feels the loss of merchandising rights by Marvel re Conan circa the early 1980s hastened the decline of the comics’ popularity. [Conan art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC; other art ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

on the Black Coast.

It’s usually said Conan and Bêlit were together for three years, but Howard himself never really spelled that out. And then she dies right away, and Howard moves on to the next story. Basically, he never had to deal in detail with their relationship. He just shows that she was the leader, and he did the fighting, and “he found the life good.” That’s about it. But I didn’t mind, because, it seemed right for him to have some sort of relationship like that at that stage in his young life, so I played it up and had the two of them really care for each other, and at the same time, try to maintain their individual personalities.

In Howard’s story Bêlit is an unsympathetic character in most ways, except for her love for Conan. She deliberately sacrifices some of her own crewmen who’d been with her for years—she lets them do something even though she knows it’s probably a death trap, and indeed they do get killed, and she shows no remorse. She is definitely not the most admirable person in the world. But when you’re using her for three years—well, I kind-of downplayed that one incident, which could be put down to “gold fever,” and I had Conan soften the rough edges. In some ways, we couldn’t really be totally true to Bêlit’s character at that time—except maybe in that last story, after glossing over it for three years. Well, in truth, I suppose I could have made her a less sympathetic character, but I chose not to. It

was, I think, the right decision for a Marvel comic in the 1970s. If I were doing it over today, I’d probably handle it a bit differently.

JA: It seems like it isn’t until Conan becomes a king that he’s really close to a woman or really trusts anyone… namely Zenobia, in Conan the Conqueror.

THOMAS: I suppose. But Conan never really “knows” Zenobia. She falls in love with him basically at first sight, helps him escape from the dungeon, and then isn’t seen again after that chapter. In the last sentence or so of the novel, he tells the defeated King of Nemedia that this slave girl will be his ransom, and he’ll “make her queen of Aquilonia!” We can only assume he kept his word, and one theme of Hour of the Dragon was that these plots against Conan were coming up because had had no heir, but since the novel is chronologically Howard’s last word on Conan—nor did he mention her in his correspondence with Schuyler and Miller which sketched out Conan’s later career in a couple of sentences—we know nothing whatever of his life after that moment.

It’s like what George Lucas said to me one day in 1977, concerning the offshoots of Star Wars after the success of the film: “The movies are gospel. Everything else is gossip.”

Of course, Conan had other friends in the course of the stories, and he probably trusted them to a certain extent. But they tended to be people who got killed in the course of the story. There aren’t any continuing characters in the Conan stories. I don’t think there is a single character who pops up more than once. Thoth-Amon had been shoehorned in as his arch-enemy, but even he didn’t really appear in a lot of Conan stories.

He’s mentioned off-stage in one—which wasn’t even published till years after Howard’s death; he appears prominently in another, though he and Conan never meet—and everything else is put in by de Camp and Carter or somebody. Even though members of the crew of the Tigress in “Queen of the Black Coast” pop up again in Conan the Conqueror, it’s not really the same people. None of the names are repeated, which makes sense, since Conan’s the only survivor at the end of “Black Coast”—so I worked it so that a few crewmen left the ship right before that fatal voyage up the Zarkheba River.

Howard arranged it so that the only constant in the Conan stories was Conan. Everybody else just dropped in long enough to play their part in a single story, and then they died or did whatever they were going to do.

Everybody else was expendable.

“Conan’s Ambitious” JA: How old was Conan when he became a king?

THOMAS: He was in his 30s, maybe pushing 40. I got the impression that Kull was a little younger, around 30, when he became king. Again, I think Conan’s age is based somewhat on evidence in the stories, but partly as those few facts were interpreted by Miller and Clark, and later by de Camp.

JA: But in a way, does becoming king seem like an unlikely career choice, for want of a better term?

A Pieta In The Face One of the several versions of the cover of Conan the Barbarian #100 (July 1979) that were rejected by publisher Stan Lee for one reason or another.

This one wound up as the cover of The Comic Reader #182 (Aug. 1980), the magazine that reported advance news on comics. Art by John Buscema & Ernie Chan. [Conan art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

THOMAS: Well, Conan’s ambitious. He was always looking for the main chance. He‘d worked his way up by that stage. He wasn’t some loner type, and then suddenly became a king. He was in charge of the army, and if he had been in exile a while before—which I believe may also be a de Camp extension—it was mainly because of arousing the fury of that previous king. So it made sense for him to want to be the king. That was the ultimate ambition, just the same way several soldiers became the emperor of Rome in the later stages of the Roman Empire. In fact, the latter situation was probably the inspiration for the ascension of both Kull and Conan.

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

33

JA: Right, because Conan doesn’t see himself as a pharaoh.

THOMAS: No, but if you’re in any field, and it is a field of sorts, you want to rise to the top, and the top of the field would be the king. I don’t think Conan ever had any profound plan to become king. The line in which he’s thinking at the end of “The Treasure of Tranicos” about being a king is an interpolation by de Camp. I don’t think Howard ever had him thinking about how he might be king one day.

JA: Did you find the King Conan comic easier or harder to write?

THOMAS: It was real easy, because I only wrote those first eight issues, and they were all adaptations. If I’d gotten past that point and would’ve been doing original material, I think I’d have found it harder, because writing about a king who’s sitting on a throne is always difficult. You can’t have him dethroned all the time like Howard did in the three stories he wrote in which Conan is king of Aquilonia. You can’t keep doing that all the time in a King Conan comic. So you had to play up other people, or you had to have him leading campaigns and getting him more involved.

In the comics, later, they played up his son Conn, who was another creation of de Camp and Carter. I don’t think that King Conan would have been as much fun to write as the other two books were… but I’d have found a way to make it enjoyable. Since Conn existed by that point, I’d have probably used him much as the 1980s comics writers did.

JA: And that’s the point I wanted to make, because, as you know, Prince Valiant, when he starts becoming in charge [in his newspaper comic strip], and he has a wife and he has kids, it’s not the same thing.

THOMAS: No. That’s when Hal Foster had to start using Val’s son Arn as the main character after a while.

JA: Right, and I see a parallel between the two.

THOMAS: Yes, I think there is. Arn started duplicating some of his father’s experiences—meeting a princess and all that—though, because he was raised in court, he wasn’t the same character as Val had been years earlier. And Conn wasn’t the same as Conan. I remember perusing the Conan the King comics, when I came back to Conan in the 1990s. I hadn’t bought or read a single issue of Conan or Savage Sword or Conan the King between when I left doing it near the end of 1980 and when I started writing it again. I don’t even think I bought a single one. So whenever editor Mike Rockwitz asked me to write Conan again, I went out and bought up all the back issues, and I kind-of skim-read them. But in between, I’d had no interest in what Conan was doing in the comics. I kept buying Robert E. Howard material, but I have no interest in Conan comics if I’m not writing them. The minute I left it, I left it. That’s no disparagement of the people who came after me… it’s just the way I do things.

“The Whole Feel Of Conan’s Ongoing Life…

Was Mostly Thrown Out The Window” JA: Jack Kirby was the same way, and I can see why. When you went over those issues, what was your general reaction?

THOMAS: That there were some good stories, but somehow or other, the majority didn’t seem like either Howard’s Conan or, to some extent, even the Conan I had developed for Marvel. It didn’t seem to me as if Conan was the focus in quite the same way. Maybe it was a natural thing, but it seemed somehow as if the other characters, male and female, were increasingly coming in and playing larger parts. They were becoming more of an ensemble company. I’m talking more about the color comics than the black-&-whites, where it stayed closer to the kind of thing we did before.

Also, while some of the stories were good, and I think some of them really had some kind of vision, and they had a lot of good art and good

Uneasy Lies The Head… …if it stays on the shoulders at all! Conan’s first appearance as king of Aquilonia in the color comics was in Giant-Size Conan #1 (Sept. 1974). Gil Kane’s pencils were inked, ’twould seem, by Ernie Chan; repro’d from a photocopy of the original art. Roy preferred to use Robert E. Howard’s actual title for the novel that had been rechristened Conan the Conqueror in a 1950s paperback edition. [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

writing, the thing that was lost, I think—and lost, it seemed to me, almost on purpose, so maybe it was an editorial directive, rather than the writers’ idea— all of a sudden, the whole feel of Conan’s ongoing life as thought out by Howard and later de Camp and others was mostly thrown out the window. Everything for the next several years was like the kind of things that could have taken place in a few months of his life. And, of course, I wouldn’t have spread it out that much because I was trying to cover one year in every year of the color comic. They didn’t just slow it down so much as they had it come to a complete stop. And suddenly, Conan may be a loner for a while and a commander of men at other times, but he‘s really going around in circles for all those years.

When I was gearing up for writing the comic again, my friend JeanMarc L’Officier kiddingly suggested to me that maybe I should treat all those adventures as if they hadn’t happened, as if they’d been a dream. I don’t know how I’d have handled things if he hadn’t made that remark, but it appealed to me and started me thinking. So when I did my first new Conan the Barbarian story in about a decade, in 1990 or so—at least the first one I did under my own name—the first thing I did was to have Conan state that the last few years of his life had seemed almost like a dream.

34

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

I wanted to be able to ignore anything in those last ten years of comics, and basically I did ignore most of it. It was there if I wanted to say that this particular thing happened, but I didn’t feel any obligation to use it. I felt, well, nobody really paid any attention to my vision for Conan when they took over the book, so why should I pay any attention to theirs when I took over again? I respect those writers, for the most part, and I think

they respected me—it was just an approach, done without malice toward anybody. I used one or two villains from the old days when it suited my purposes, but other than that, I ignored the 1980s run of Conan. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t any good. It just wasn’t anything that said “Conan” to me.

JA: I had read the book for maybe a couple years after you left. I thought there was no focus, and I ended up quitting for that reason.

THOMAS: That’s the period when they should have had a lot of success because of the two Conan movies, and I’m sure they did, briefly. But it seemed like they let that evaporate, so that after the movies had come and gone, I think there wasn’t any reason for people to keep reading Conan. Now, whether they‘d have kept on reading it in the same numbers if I had kept doing it the way I‘d been doing it, I don’t know. I suspect it might have been more successful, but I can’t prove it, and I’m not going to waste time trying.

It is true that, when I came back and we tried to revive that feeling in the ’90s, people didn’t come back, really. They had drifted off in the latter ’80s, and we couldn’t find a way to bring them back. The moment had kind-of passed. Whether it would have passed quite the same way had I stayed there, I don’t know.

“I Decided [To Have] Conan Sailing Off To America” JA: When you returned to Conan in the 1990s, did you rethink things, or did you go back to your timeline that you were working on?

THOMAS: Oh, yes. I treated it as if, in those ten years, a couple of months might have passed. [laughs] And suddenly, Conan is in his late 20s again. When I‘d left the book in 1980, it was still maybe a year away from “Black Colossus,” which is the next-in-order Conan prose story that would have come up to be adapted after “The Vale of Lost Women.”

Spawn Of Cimmeria When Roy returned as writer of Conan the Barbarian with issue #241 (Feb. 1991), editor Mike Rockwitz got rising superstar Todd McFarlane to draw the cover… and when Roy offered to buy the original art from Todd, the gracious Canadian insisted on giving it to him. (In 2006, Todd also said some kind words about RT’s reign on Conan in the introduction he penned for the Thomas-scribed hardcover book Conan: The Ultimate Guide to the World’s Most Savage Barbarian—and contributed a cover to that DK volume, as well.)

Actually, as a favor to Mike, Roy had also scripted Conan #240, to wind up a “Young Conan” series then running—but the Rascally One would only do so if, for the sole time in his comicsscripting life, he could use a pseudonym, so that when his name would reappear on Conan, it would be on a story he wanted to write. So that issue was bylined “Justin Arthur” (“just an author”)—which was also the name Roy‘d given to the alter ego of DC’s Shining Knight a decade earlier. See how everything is interrelated? [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

Sometime shortly after I came back, I adapted “Black Colossus,” though neither the editor nor I wanted to do it straight in the comic itself, because it had already been done in Savage Sword. So I did it in a way that works in a lot of elements, and mostly did the scenes that were in between events that happened in “Black Colossus.” I also brought in Red Sonja, and I brought in Zula as a character, and therefore we could have Conan doing some other things that were the kinds of actions he might have done in between the things Howard had him do. We covered the events in “Black Colossus” in a few pages here and there, and then did riffs on it so we wouldn’t be repeating ourselves, but it was tricky.

Once past that point, we were in good shape for a while. Basically, I just went back and used the same plan that I’d had, just adjusting events to things that had taken place while I was gone, or stories I had adapted myself in Savage Sword. In the ’80s, I had managed, just barely, to adapt just about everything that had been done up to that stage of Conan in prose in Savage Sword or Conan the Barbarian or King Conan by the time I left the book and Marvel—Howard, de Camp, Carter, Nyberg, everything. But by the time I came back, of course they’d added some other paperback novels—by de Camp, Karl

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]... Than Spider-Man!”

35

A Couple Of Roy’s Favorites Roy has fond memories of his days and decades writing Conan in various media, including comic books, comic strips, movies, recordings, etc.—but none fonder than of his collaborations with the late great John Buscema. In their last story arc together—the 3-issue 1999 series called Conan: Death Covered in Gold—Buscema both penciled and inked, showing that his work had lost none of its luster. The splash page of issue #2 is repro’d from photocopies of the original art. [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.] Shown in the photo above are Roy, his wife Dann (who co-plotted occasional “Conan” stories with him as far back as the late ‘70s), and REH enthusiast Terry Allen. The pic was taken at the Robert E. Howard Days event in Cross Plains, Texas, in June of 2006. Roy was pleased to be guest of honor, along with Glenn Lord, who as literary agent of the REH estate in 1969-70 made the deal with Marvel that led to good things for both Conan and the comics company. Photo by Kay Allen.

Wagner, Poul Anderson, etc.—and I could think about doing some of those.

JA: Did you actually have an ending for Conan’s life?

THOMAS: Not really. For some dumb reason they killed Savage Sword of Conan in the ’90s and promptly started another black-&-white magazine called Conan the Savage, which I didn’t quite appear in every issue of, though I did a number of stories for it. One of the things I decided was that I’d follow the thing that de Camp had come up with, which is Conan sailing off to America, what amounted to “The New World.”

I did that, partly, because Howard himself had listed that as his ending of Conan’s life, in that famous letter to Schuyler and Miller. At least, he suggested that, in the long run, Conan might go off sailing into the unknown worlds in the West, and I liked that. I felt that had Howard’s imprimatur on it. De Camp had filled in a little bit with his novel Conan of the Isles—which I had adapted at the end of my first tenure—so I had this idea about having him undertake these adventures at the age of 70 or so. I mean, Conan’s in pretty good shape like the best of 70-year-olds, but he’s on his own with a whole new cast of characters. I was going to base a lot of those stories— as I did the only one that was printed—on some of the weird stories of Clark Ashton Smith, who in the 1930s in Weird Tales magazine, at the same time Howard was writing his Conan stories, postulated a kind of Hyborian Age without a Conan. I did reverse Smith’s map, so that it was a mirror image of what he had created. Putting Conan into stories and situations which had never, ever had a real action hero as

Throne For A Loss Back on our contents pages, we promised you a clear, uncluttered view of Arthur Suydam’s bodacious barbarian painting that we used as this issue’s cover—and we’ve seldom felt happier about keeping our word! Thanks again, Arthur! We didn’t want readers to miss that cool dragon lurking behind our logo! [©2009 Arthur Suydam.]

36

Roy Thomas Talks—Yes, Again—About Howard’s Hyborian Hero

Smith had written them changed them substantially and was a fun challenge.

But as far as some final battle, whether on his own or reunited with his son Conn, as de Camp would have had it, I don’t think I ever really quite wanted to picture that. If somebody had asked, I could have come up with a “last” Conan story. But I wasn’t going to think about it, because it wasn’t something I was naturally inclined to do—because, if I was going to do that, I would end up saying this is the final Conan story I’m going to write. And there is no doubt in my mind that, if I had been allowed to do so, and if circumstances had played out to do so, I would have been writing “Conan” in an unbroken line from 1970 to the present for the past nearly 40 years with nobody else writing Conan comics, and without any super-heroes meeting him. That’s the way it would have been.

JA: What did you think of the movie The Whole Wide World?

THOMAS: I thought it was excellent. I‘ve only seen it once, but I’ve been meaning to watch it again. I thought it really was one of the most faithful and fact-based movie biographies I’ve ever seen. I know that movie people always say about film biographies, “Oh, we have to change this, and we have to change that.” I reject most of that argument, because I feel that, if it changes somebody’s life substantially, then it isn’t really a biography at all. It’s just a work of fiction that is—to use the term I see nowadays a lot—“based on a true story.” Which is usually just a way of fudging the whole thing.

I always think of a movie I mostly enjoyed—Gorillas in the Mist, based on Dian Fossey’s life. The first thing they do in there is, they have her go to Africa, and she’s looking for gorillas, so naturally she wants to hire the greatest gorilla-finder she can find. And who does she wind up hiring but some con man who tricked her, a guy who doesn’t know anything about gorillas at all—because that was a cute movie thing. Well, I think it’s crap! It’s just crap. In point of actual fact, Dian Fossey went to Africa, she found the best gorilla-finder there was, and he found the gorillas for her. But they had to make some cutesy movie moment out of it, and as far as I’m concerned, that’s no better than The Glenn Miller Story and all the movie biographies I liked as I kid and now am intellectually disgusted by. They might be decent movies, but they have little or nothing to do with biography.

The Whole Wide World, though I don’t like the title, was much better.

It had a lot more integrity in terms of performances, the writing, and everything. It was written by a person who was a former student of the woman who was the heroine of the story, and that may have had something to do with it. Maybe that would’ve prevented it from being a major boxoffice hit, because they didn’t add a lot of action or a lot of dramatic moments as they could have done. But on the other hand, hey, it’s a decent biography and that’s something you can‘t say, as far as I’m concerned, about most movie bios. In my view, with very, very, very few exceptions, even if the movie may be good, it’s usually lousy biography.

The WHO’S WHO of American Comic Books (1928-1999) Created by Jerry G. Bails FREE – online searchable database – FREE www.bailsprojects.com No password required

A quarter of a million records, covering the careers of people who have contributed to original comic books in the US.

A Man And His Myths, Revisited In the 1990s Roy and artist Rafael Kayanan teamed up under Marvel editor Richard Ashford to produce the too-short-lived series Conan the Adventurer.

More recently, Raf drew this fabulous group Illustration of many of Robert E. Howard’s heroes—and of Two-Gun Bob himself, more or less in the center.

We’ll let you see if you can figure out who they all are, and we’ll print the key in Alter Ego‘s third sword-and-sorcery issue, some months from now!

[Conan TM & ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC; Kull TM & ©2009 Kull Productions, Inc.; Solomon Kane TM & ©2009 Solomon Kane, Inc.; other characters TM & ©2009 Robert E. Howard Properties, Inc.]

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38

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten” Part II Of Our In-Depth Interview With JOE EDWARDS, Writer & Artist Of Archie & Li’l Jinx Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

L

ast issue, the late Joe Edwards (1921-2007) spoke primarily about his early days at Archie Comics, when the company was called MLJ and had begun as a publisher of super-hero and adventure material. Archie Andrews, of course, came along in 1942 and, before long, changed everything—including the very name of the company! At the point at which we divided the interview, Joe was talking about how, when he started at MLJ in the early 1940s, he generally worked three days a week at the office, drawing the humor features that were increasingly becoming important to the firm, but had a lot of freedom, often being told simply give the editors “five pages… three pages… one page”… with the precise content left to his discretion. —Jim.

“The McClure Syndicate [Is] Where ‘Archie’ Got Its Springboard” JIM AMASH: Were you allowed to create anything you wanted?

JOE EDWARDS: Because I could write, they gave me pretty much free rein. They would just say, “Give me three pages!” and you would bring in something that was different. Whatever it was, you’d bring in single pages, half pages. They needed stuff to fill the book.

There was one—“Randy.” Does that ring a bell? It was very short-lived, but it was a strip with the kind of teenagers that [MLJ] was looking for. I just want to give you an insight into [comic book companies]. Publishers always loved to follow in somebody else’s footsteps. Now, John Goldwater realized in his infinite wisdom, that “Archie” was a good seller, so [he figured] let’s make “Wilbur.” In other words, he said, “Before the opposition gets going [copying our ideas], I want to be able to spin off my different characters. Maybe one of them would come to be profitable.”

Case in point: when we started with Jughead, he was just a side character.

Sam Schwartz took him and made him into a very [important character].

It was Harry Shorten who carried the ball. When Bob Montana and I went into the Army, MLJ went around to the newspaper syndicates to sell it. It didn’t sell right away, but [it was finally picked up by] the McClure Syndicate. That’s where “Archie” got its springboard.

JA: So you think it was the newspaper strip that really made Archie popular in our culture?

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris EDWARDS: With McClure. The contract [stated that] if McClure didn’t bring in enough newspapers, which would mean so much money, by the end of a certain period of time which I forget now, the strip syndication would revert back to the Archie company. And McClure, in turn, could sell it to the next syndicate, which they did to King Features. That’s history. So McClure got the first crack at it, but they didn’t bring home the bacon. So when Bob and I were in the Army, Harry actually carried the ball, and tried peddling it himself. He was very instrumental in doing that.

Everything’s Archie!

Joe Edwards is seen, some years back, giving an art demonstration at a school—and he was definitely qualified to give one! Below are the major characters he drew for Archie Comics during his decades in the field, from the Riverdale gang to Li’l Jinx. Art and photos accompanying this interview have been provided by Joe himself, and more recently by his widow Eda Lisa Edwards, via Jim Amash & Teresa R. Davidson. [Art ©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

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and time. But so many times, I came in with “Gee, I got a terrific ending, but I don’t have a beginning.” [mutual laughter] If you look at the first cover of Archie, you’ll see Bumby, the Detective, the Bee-tective. That was one of the early things I created.

One day, I came in with a story, and Harry said, “Joe, what are you doing?” I said, “The first page is blank, and the last page is this first page.” [mutual chuckling] Harry said, “How the hell did you figure that one out?” I said, “Harry, I did a little research.” I used to go to the candy stores where the comic books were sold, and I would watch the kids take the magazines and flip them. You know, open the book and scan the pages. They would come across something that would catch their eye. I thought, “That would be an interesting premise.” So when I was writing the story, I thought, “If I put a blank page in there, kids are going to stop.” When they flip the book, they would see a blank page, they would ask what happened. That was the psychology behind it.

Anyway, I did it, I put a bill in, and I got called in by John Goldwater. John says to me, “Joe, we can’t pay you for a blank Strip Joint page.” I said, “Yeah, you can.” I was only 19 so I had a lot of A photo of Joe, taken a few years ago, holding a pair of Archie newspaper dailies chutzpah. So I says to John, “[It’s an] integral part of this story.” He on which he’d worked, with a framed “Li’l Jinx” page in the background. Thanks said, “How do you figure that?” Harry was sitting there at the time, to Eda Lisa Edwards. and Harry knew what was going to happen. So I told John the Bob and I worked together on the strip. I’d come in, we’d have lunch story, he just sat there like I hit him with a two-by-four. He turned to with Harry, and we would talk about it. All three of us kicked ideas Harry and said, “Harry, have Joe put something on the page, but pay him around. Harry said to me, “You know, you did animation. Why don’t you for the blank page.” [Jim laughs] This was when I was young and bushyput the animation in the book, and work with Bob on stories and see what tailed. But I told you the psychology behind it. To me, that was part of you can do?” writing material, to find out what the motivation was. I learned it the hard way. A lot of the writers had to learn it, but a lot of them don’t know how JA: How much of a writer do you think Bob Montana was? You were a to develop an idea. Harry would show us some of the things. Harry was a real writer. You could sit and do a plot, beginning, middle, and end with good writer; he could look at your work, and [suggest changes]. He never appropriate punchlines and all. Was Montana that kind of writer, too? said to me, “That’s no good.” He would say, “Let’s see if we can do something with it.” In other words, he didn’t hit your ego, and that was EDWARDS: Yes, we both seemed to work off of each other. Harry important.

Shorten was the one who guided us. He was our mentor. I remember we’d either come in Thursdays or Fridays with written material not nailed down, an idea that was bugging our brains. “I have an idea. I think it could be an ‘Archie‘ story.” One word led to another and Harry would say, “Why don’t we try it this way? Why don’t we try it that way?” Harry would train us to think a certain way; a beginning, middle, and end. Sometimes we would start with the middle; sometimes, we’d start with the end; and sometimes, the beginning.

And sometimes, it all fell together 1-2-3. That came with experience

Passing The Hatlo Jimmy Hatlo’s popular daily panel They’ll Do It Every Time (this one consists of two pictures) regularly paid “a tip of the Hatlo hat” to readers who sent in ideas, as in the 1957 example at left. Above is the originally imitative but successful rival panel There Oughta Be a Law, written by Harry Shorten and drawn by Al Fagaly—also, in this instance, a two-pic gag. If there was ever an artist named Whipple associated with the latter feature, as Joe observes, we didn’t find a sample of his work. [They’ll Do It Every Time panel ©2009 King Features Syndicate, Inc.; There Oughta Be a Law panel ©2009 McClure Syndicate or successors in interest.]

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Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

Now I’m integrating a lot of thoughts, but one of them was that when Bob and I were in the Army, and Harry was going around, trying to peddle Archie at the time, he came up with the newspaper feature, There Oughta Be a Law. Jimmy Hatlo was doing They’ll Do It Every Time for King Features. As Harry was trying to get Archie syndicated, he was told, “Gee, if you had an idea like [They’ll Do It Every Time], we would buy it.”

So Harry came up with There Oughta Be A Law. Again, somebody followed in somebody else’s footsteps. Harry wrote it, and a guy named Whipple drew it. They kept it away from Archie. In other words, Harry owned it exclusively. He kept that strip away by keeping Whipple out in Southampton. He died subsequently, but he was doing this stuff, and Harry would ask me to write the dailies when I had a chance, which I did.

Some of the ideas he would pass on to Whipple. So he was a good comedy writer. He created a lot of strips. He was in a position to do it. Harry was very inventive. He came out with, I think, the first golf magazine. But it didn’t go anywhere because, as I told you, the businessmen don’t see what you see. An artist sees what’s not there, but a person sees what’s there. An artist can see in his head what it’ll look like, and that’s what the bottom line is. That’s what all of my training has been, to see things that are not there, to create out of nothing.

was another thing that I thought was very important.

JA: Victor Gorelick told me that Reinman was also a painter.

EDWARDS: I knew that, but I don’t know [any specifics].

JA: Tell me about “Red” Holmdale.

EDWARDS: He was good, and he did something called “Gus” [“Gloomy Gus the Homeless Ghost”]. Do you remember a movie where a guy dies, and he comes back from Heaven and he helps people? He did something of that nature. Anyway, he copied that. He came up with this character, I think, who went into other people’s bodies. Red had an interesting, recognizable style. Red was there that day when we were working on [the first “Archie” story]. Mike Roy was there that day. He was a very personal friend of Harry Sahle’s. That’s how you met people. You met one, you met another one.

JA: What do you remember about Harry Sahle? He did an awful lot of “Archie” work after the war ended, but he died young, of leukemia.

JA: I’ve got millions of questions. [laughs] Millions!

EDWARDS: Yes, he did. Bob and I were in the Army and they asked him to take over for, I think, the third issue or fourth of Archie. Harry was very gregarious. He was doing Archie, and then they groomed Bill Vigoda [to work on that feature]. When Bob and I went into the service, we were worried whether or not Archie would be carried a little further. Harry Sahle—I think there was something physically wrong with him. He was 4F. Anyone who was 4-F at the time had a sure job. Bill Vigoda was also 4F.

EDWARDS: Uh-oh. If you put a dollar bill on each one, I’ll answer them.

JA: Vigoda was diabetic, wasn’t he?

JA: Send the bill to Roy Thomas! I want to ask you a little more about Paul Reinman. He came back to Archie in the 1960s when they started doing the super-heroes again. What do you remember of him from the 1960s period?

EDWARDS: Yes, but I don’t know if that’s why he was 4-F. He used to drive me crazy because he used to play football. [chuckles] I said, “How can a guy who’s 4-F play football?” Bill was there for quite a while. He was into [fine] arts. He loved to paint, and he would sneak away sometimes [to pursue that]. And when he’d come back to the “Archie” pages, we used to find on the back of them better drawings than in “Archie.” [mutual laughter] It was a way of releasing that creative energy that he needed, so he would make pictures on the back of his pages. He felt that “Archie” was [an artistic] straightjacket.

Any other questions? [chuckles]

“There Were Two Tracks— [Humor And Super-Hero]”

EDWARDS: Nothing really outstanding, other than he was a charming man, he knew his stuff, he was a good artist, his strong ink line really impressed me greatly. His artwork—he knew how to put in blacks, that

JA: Sahle had an inker named “Ginger.”

EDWARDS: That was his girlfriend! The strip “Ginger” was done by Harry Sahle. He picked up the name “Ginger” because he was trying to emulate “Archie.” So it was a female Archie. I think Harry was married.

JA: So Harry Sahle was married, but “Ginger” was his girlfriend.

EDWARDS: Yeah, she was up there. He brought her in, and she used to do stuff. She was a redhead.

JA: You wouldn’t happen to remember Ginger’s last name, would you?

EDWARDS: Oh, God, no. When you’ve known somebody by their nickname, that’s it. I really don’t know much about her other than she was his girlfriend. [NOTE: It was the late Sam Burlockoff who told me that “Ginger” was Virginia Drury. —Jim.] JA: Al Camy and Cliff Campbell drew super-heroes. Did you know them?

EDWARDS: No, you see, there were two tracks—[humor and superhero]. We didn’t socialize with the other track [super-hero creators] as much.

You Can’t Ghost Home Again Splash of a “Gloomy Gus” story, drawn by Red Holmdale, from an issue of Top-Notch Comics. Script by Virginia Hubbell. Thanks to Joe Carroll. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Before I forget it, we were talking about spin-offs and following in others’ footsteps. As I said, “Jughead” became its own entity. They recognized that the sales were good, so Betty and Veronica got more attention.

They were in the “Archie” stories, but they were like side characters; then

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G.I. Joe A few years ago, Joe created this montage of his time in uniform during World II. In the center he is seen with two other soldiers, one of whom (“Geiger,” but not the famous artist) did training aids for soldiers with Edwards. According to Jim Amash, based on his conversations with Joe, the other images, clockwise from top left, are: Joe’s mother, Alice.

His wife Eda, in a photo taken right after their 1944 wedding.

The entrance to the “24th Repple Depple—Museum.” According to Jim: “The Repple Depple pic was taken between 1943 and 1944 in Cacerta (sp?), Italy. It was a relocation depot, hence the play on the name. The art in the photo was done by Joe. The poster on the left says, ‘Vonce Ve Ruled de Volturno Valley’ in a parodied German accent.”

Joe standing in front of the Coliseum in Rome.

can’t write. I don’t want to do it.” Victor would say, “I bought it already. Look, Sam. If you don’t like it, see what you want to do with it. If you can make it funny, good.”

Sam took the challenge and he did make it funny, but it kept going for, I’m saying, maybe three or four years. He would call Victor and say, “Fire this writer. I hate him. He stinks. I don’t want him.” [Jim chuckles] Vic took this all in stride and would say, “Sam, fix it up.”

JA: It sounds like Schwartz was a career curmudgeon.

Was he?

[MLJ] realized there was something [they could do with them].

Does the name Milt Luros mean anything to you? He was the one who did the first lettering on the “Archie” books, and on “Betty and Veronica.”

Milt Luros started in pulps. He was exciting. I could tell you about him.

It’s a whole book in itself. Oh, what a guy! He was a letterer, but he was also an artist in pulps drawing cowboys, detectives, things like that. Milt was given the assignment to letter the comic books. He was damn good and powerful, a good letterer. We met like ships in the night and we would see each other, “Hello, Milt,” and we’d go out once in a while for lunch as a group. The jokes, the feelings, the camaraderie, that was one of the best times of my life, a highlight.

“[Sam Schwartz] Made Jughead!”

JA: You’ve mentioned Sam Schwartz here and there. I’d like to hear a little more about him. I loved his “Jughead” stories.

EDWARDS: Oh, there’s plenty to tell you about him. [laughs] He made Jughead! Jughead was a second banana. If you look at some of them, Jughead makes remarks that came out of Vaudeville. Sam was given the assignment to do “Jughead.” He put in personality and that’s what makes the [characters] live.

Sam invariably, invariably would get a script from another writer, given to him by Victor. And Victor would get a call from Sam, “This guy

EDWARDS: No, he was the funniest guy in the room. He also had a dry sense of humor. Sam and I were very, very close friends. He would call me three, four times a week, and we’d be on the phone almost as long as [you and I are]. We would chat and we would meet for lunch. Sam was a good storyteller. Oh, did you know Sam started with Suzie? That was his first attempt with comic books with me. He was given the assignment to draw Suzie.

Suzie was supposed to be a very beautiful blonde who lost every job at the end of each issue, and got another.

Then after a while, [chuckles] she died [meaning the series was canceled. —Jim]. Sam didn’t get his teeth into that one. Look, some actors can do a certain role better than others and Jughead was perfect for Sam, but Suzie just didn’t jibe.

JA: Sam Schwartz did the most amazing stuff. I was a big fan of his.

EDWARDS: I’m glad you said that because, wherever he is, he’s still laughing.

JA: I remember this story from my childhood, so this is like 35 years ago.

On the first page, Jughead is talking to an alien. The alien is sitting on a fire hydrant and they’re just having a normal conversation. There’s no explanation of where this alien comes from. Archie and Betty, I think, are in this story, if my memory’s correct, and they don’t think there’s anything strange that Jughead has an alien friend from another planet.

EDWARDS: [laughs] Yeah, that’s my boy Sam. There were a lot of little things, little tidbits that go by the wayside. Mr. Weatherbee is in the office and he’s leaning on one arm, just with the fingers out, talking to, I think, Miss Grundy. And there’s a picture on the wall with Mr. Weatherbee and if you look at it, he’s got his fingers in a position where he’s thumbing his nose from the picture. [Jim laughs] JA: Sam used more silhouettes than any artist at that company.

EDWARDS: Very funny, because Sam used to take great pride in doing that. [George] Gladir wrote a story once where the dogs were chasing, running, and Sam drew the panel so all you saw was the tail wagging, and

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Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

the dogs were chasing [one of the Archie characters]. All you saw was the tail, only the tail!

Isn’t it funny? He used to tell Victor, “Whenever in doubt, silhouette.” [Jim laughs] And he also had a good sense of spotting blacks and design.

Oh, God, I miss that guy so much. Wherever he is, I hope his ears are burning. He was good.

JA: He also started out doing super-heroes at Archie [MLJ].

EDWARDS: Yeah, but he never had his heart into comics until he got into comedy. That was his forte.

You could be in a room with him, and you would know who he was because he made himself known, not because he was an egotist. I’ll tell you something else about Sam. As good and as funny as he was, he was very self-effacing; he couldn’t get in front of an audience and talk. Sam was shy, so all the humor that came out was from inside. He was a very shy guy, especially with girls. He was delightful.

“Their Sales Went Up, And They Were Selling Out” JA: How long do you think it took MLJ to notice that “Archie“ was taking off?

EDWARDS: I could give you a very easy answer. When their sales went up, and they were selling out. They had a break-even point, and the break-even point was terrific. You invested a buck and you got back a hundred or whatever, I don’t know the exact numbers. But I know, once a year, all magazines have to clear an audit for the postal rates. When they do that, they have to show certain figures that they made, how much they printed, and all the factors, how much of a press run they had, and I used to keep an eye on it to see what was going on. Of course, when it first started, when I came in, animation was the hot stuff. Also, around the same time, the edge was love. You know, the girls, females, that was around, but animation was the big thing because of Disney and Warner Bros.

They were putting out magazines, and they were selling pretty good.

MLJ, at the time, loved to be a leader in somebody else’s footsteps, and that was what the program was, not that the other companies didn’t do the same thing. I mean, a buck was a buck, and the guys who came in, we used to call them “suits.” They would work the numbers. If they saw one of the items was taking off, they would jump into it. If you had a successful strip, or if something hit, and there were certain ones, Jingle Jangle, Pep... all these were crazy names. But if certain books came out that worked, they would expand on it to try to make an extra two dollars.

As a result, the entire industry would move wherever the flow was. At the time, the wave was “Superman,“ and they saw it was selling. MLJ put out “The Shield“ and followed the trend.

JA: Before the Archie character came out, do you think MLJ was doing okay, money-wise? Were their books selling well?

EDWARDS: I’m really not cognizant of that, except that I know that raises were very, very stiff and tight. They played it close to the vest, kept it close to the family, and that was pretty much what I remember, looking backwards. They didn’t really make big bucks. They were not a leader at the time. “The Hangman“ came out, “The Shield“ came out; these were all copies of the straight stuff. When we came in, Pep was selling very, very well, ironically.

JA: Did either John Goldwater or Louis Silberkleit talk to their distributors or retailers to find out it was the Archie character that was making the books sell all of a sudden? They had to have some way of knowing, besides just sales.

A Sahle Business This photo of artist Harry Sahle was provided by the late Sam Burlockoff for A/E’s interview with Sam in issue #32. At right is an “Archie” splash page penciled by Sahle and inked by “Ginger” (reportedly Virginia Drury) from Pep Comics #50 (Sept. 1944). Note the byline for editor Harry Shorten, whom Joe credits with much of the success of the early “Archie.” [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.] An intriguing aside: In an interview published in the out-of-print TwoMorrows trade paperback Alter Ego: The Comic Book Artist Collection (2001), artist Gil Kane is quoted: “Harry Sahle was scandalously in love with a 19-year-old inker named Vivian something, and they worked there [at MLJ] for about a year and a half or so until Sahle went in the Army. What happened was that the two of them were hired away by Quality Comics; they were offered a contract to work together. As I remember it, what happened next was that ‘Busy’ Arnold [publisher of Quality] fell in love with Vivian, and Harry died of a broken heart before the end of the War.” Sounds to us like “Vivian” and Virginia Drury might be one and the same—but apparently, as Jim Amash learned from artists Sam Burlockoff and Gill Fox, Harry Sahle actually lived till around 1950 and died of leukemia.

EDWARDS: The sales factor is always a barometer for anything. If it’s selling, then they know that they got a winner, and as a result, they will continue to expand. Now I was just touching another part, another facet to their whole situation. When “Archie“ started—most people don’t even know this—they didn’t come out directly with “Archie.“ The first one was “Percy,” and it did not make a big splash. But then came “Archie,“ and for reasons we’ve discussed, it took off.

We enjoyed what we were doing, even though we weren’t getting great pay. But I will say this: at one time, I was one of the highest moneymakers up there. But that was called “piecework.” I had “Li’l Jinx” and a couple of other things that were thrown at me which I produced. [Doing an entire book] takes a long time to do, and it tires you. It’s not an easy thing, but

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nevertheless, you produced while the iron’s hot. Anything that came up, I did. I learned lettering that way, because I felt I would save time by lettering my own stuff [instead of having others do it].

“[Martin] Goodman And John Goldwater…

Had To Tolerate Each Other”

In those times, we would do splash pages, and when you did one, they paid you more. I think it was 50¢ or a dollar above the price of the regular, mundane lettering in the book. As so, we loved the splash panels.

And then one day, I don’t know how it happened, but I think it was Coyne who said, “The guys are turning in bills for mastheads and other stuff.

Maybe we shouldn’t pay them for that.” Then suddenly, we were told there was no extra money in splash pages. You look for extra money, so if I did three or four a week, it added up; and, of course, the living at that time was a hell of a lot different than it is today. But we survived. Dan DeCarlo one time came up and said, “Joe’s making more money than me.” So they said, “Well, Joe’s doing more work.” If the work was there, take it, and that was what I did, and I’m not sorry about that. It was long hours.

JA: I don’t know if you’re aware of this story, so let me tell it to you: Timely, in the late ’40s, had a character called “Georgie.” Stan Lee told the guys who were drawing that feature, “From now on, give him that cross-hatching on the back of his head like they do on Archie.” [mutual chuckling] And the artists, of course, thought it was a stupid idea.

Apparently, it was Martin Goodman’s idea and Goodman told Stan to tell the artists to do that, to try to compete a little bit with Archie. So Georgie had that crosshatch on the back of his head for a while for that reason.

JA: [chuckles] When you were in the cab with Stan Lee [an incident related last issue]—can you give me a time period when that happened?

Was it the ’40s or the ’50s or the ’60s?

EDWARDS: Oh, God, it was a Christmas. It must have been definitely about the end of the ’40s, about ’48 or ’50.

EDWARDS: Your point is well taken, and I suspect it’s true, because I told you everybody was following [each other]. Something that was successful, you wanted to be a part of. Goodman and John Goldwater, or MLJ, were competitors, and they didn’t like each other, but they had to tolerate each other because they were in the same business. And later, as you know, John Goldwater became the President of the Comics Code, because of Dr. Wertham.

JA: Maybe Goodman and Goldwater didn’t like each other much, but I heard that they would play golf together.

EDWARDS: Oh, definitely. This group that I told you about, the Comics Code, was put together with Goodman, and the other publishers because it was for their benefit.

JA: But if they didn’t like each other, why were they playing golf together?

EDWARDS: When you’re in business, you lie down with anyone. I never really knew too much about the two of them except that news filtered down. When I say a hatred, [I mean] a business hatred, because you’re talking about the cross-hatching. [I told you where] Bob Montana got that design. The cross-hatching was used because you didn’t have color in the actual drawing. [This gave the art] a gray [pattern].

JA: I always assumed that cross-hatching meant Archie’s hair was really short on the sides and back.

EDWARDS: You could interpret it that way, but it was never really that fixed. [The old strips] used cross-hatching as a color. And all of a sudden, it got into identification.

“Harry Shorten Gave The Artists Their Head” JA: When MLJ starts shifting away from the super-heroes to Archie, did that really seem to matter? Was there a sense of excitement that Archie was really doing well for the company? “Hey, we’ve got a real winner here!“

Jughead Revisited A single-page “Jughead” gag by Sam Schwartz, one of Joe Edwards’ favorite people. Sorry we weren’t able to secure a photo of that important writer/artist… and, though this page was apparently reprinted in Jughead Double Digest #138 (March 2008), we’ve no idea when or where it originally appeared. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

EDWARDS: Only when “Archie“ came into being. Up ’til then, we were followers, not leaders. No, it was an interesting atmosphere. Harry Shorten was a good writer, and he developed all the guys to be storytellers first. The written word comes first, not second, and most [people] do not realize that because I remember how they used to talk about Alex Raymond with Flash Gordon. They’d say, “The story is so important, but his artwork was terrific.” The artwork was fantastic, but the story had to come first. What are you going to draw? What are you going to say? What story are you going to tell? And once you learned that principle, that was the key to everything.

We worked the way I described until John Goldwater started to feel that maybe he was the genius, and later all the stuff had to be filtered through [him]. But there was not too much interference. The other quality that made “Archie“ successful—[editor] Harry Shorten gave the artists their head. That was very important. Even if you fell on your face,

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Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

When The MLJ Heroes Had Pep Last issue we featured the Bob Montana-drawn cover of Pep Comics #36 (Feb. 1943), whereon The Shield and The Hangman were carrying a beaming Archie. Inside that issue, the “Shield” and “Hangman” stories sported impressive art by Irv Novick and Bob Fujitani, respectively—but Montana’s “Archie,” even though he didn’t show up till p. 55 of a 68-page mag, was clearly poised to take over the entire company then known as MLJ. See the whole story in A/E #82, still available from TwoMorrows. Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Harry encouraged you to open doors, to experiment. That was the kind of tutoring that he would do, whereas the guys in the main office didn’t understand that.

John had other assets which I felt were important in putting out this product, such as his business knowledge of trying to keep the costs down on the paper costs, and the engraving and all of that. He was a good businessman.

Montana [wanted more freedom to work, so he] moved to Meredith, New Hampshire, where I used to send a lot of ideas to him. We worked on the newspaper strip together. He would send it to me, I would finish it up, ink, and letter it. One time Bob had the flu and he called me. “Joe, I’m going to turn the strip over to you.” I said, “Bob, as good and honest as I am, I don’t know if I can duplicate what you’ve got.” You know, each one does a fingerprint. So he says, “I’ll draw and ink in the heads, and the fingers if it’s related to the gag, and even the shoe if it’s possible.” And that was pretty much what we did for a while.

JA: I didn’t realize you were one of Bob Montana’s inkers. Did Montana not ink his work?

EDWARDS: He was a fair inker, and when you saw Bob’s stuff, you knew it was his stuff—like you. Everyone can recognize your inks. There are little things that, no matter how you try to hide it, they’re there. The way

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you draw the fingers, the way the thick and thin lines flow, these are things that you build in and Bob, he had an old-fashioned style. The outline was thick, the inside was thin. If you look at his stuff very carefully, you’ll find that to be pretty much the program that he used to follow.

it that way, I’m sure he had a good reason,” because he liked Sam. I said, “It’s business and you have to accept it.” And of course, he did. Sam came back to Archie, so that was it.

JA: So he seldom inked his own work then.

EDWARDS: No.

EDWARDS: At the beginning, before we got into “Archie,“ he inked his own stuff. He would send it in and then later, as it became popular, they wanted production. So they had to speed up the inking so he would lay out roughs very lightly, and the inkers started to pick up his technique of thick outside. If you look at it carefully, it’s a heavy line outside, but it’s almost a steady line, almost like you took a ballpoint and did it, so it was the same weight.

But as time went on, each artist who worked on it introduced their little idiosyncrasies. You would see things in there that changed it, but Bob’s stuff was quite simple and easy to follow.

JA: So that was a bad breakup when Harry left.

JA: They obviously forgave Sam, but did they ever forgive Harry?

EDWARDS: Yeah, there was a lot of bitterness. Some of it, Harry would talk to me about it, and a lot of it, he didn’t.

JA: Would you say Harry was well-liked by the freelancers?

EDWARDS: Oh, yes, 100%! He was what you’d call an honest editor. He knew what he was talking about, and he was a good teacher. He wanted us to learn for ourselves and we did. He would teach you without you knowing you were learning, which was a wonderful thing. And he would never make you feel bad. He would say, “I like that, so why don’t we see if we can open that door on that side of the script and see what happens with it.” And dammit, he was good.

JA: I saw a Bob Montana cover of Jackpot where he drew Steel Sterling, and some of the other superheroes. Do you think he liked doing that stuff?

EDWARDS: No, he didn’t. He wasn’t happy [doing super-heroes]. It was a buck.

“Hit The Fan With Ten Ideas—One Of Them May Sell”

JA: You really liked Harry Shorten.

EDWARDS: Harry was really mostly responsible for carrying the ball. Sometime after Harry left Archie, I went down to Florida, and he was kinda sick at the time. It was over for him. I remember he was so happy to see me that he hugged me. He said, “It was such a wonderful time in our lives.” He was a little annoyed because I had made an appointment with somebody else, and we had to be up north in Florida. He said, “You could sleep here. Stay here.” I says, “Harry, these people are very old friends,” and he was so disappointed, and I feel very bad to this day about it.

[At some point, Archie had] almost a 90% sales, which was fantastic. So they knew they had a winner.

Harry walked in to John Goldwater’s office, and said, “I’d like to be a partner. After all, I’m bringing in big, big bucks and I’m bringing in ‘Archie.’ I think I’ve earned it.” And John looked at him, and told him where to go.

Montana By Montana?

This caricature of “Archie” writer/artist/co-creator Bob Montana appears in the 1991 hardcover Archie: The First 50 Years,

by Charles Phillips—though the book doesn’t make clear if it was drawn

by Montana himself. Anyway, since we used a photo of him in our previous installment of this Joe Edwards interview…! [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

JA: Is that why he left and did the Tower Comics?

JA: At one point, The Black Hood was one of their more popular super-heroes. They tried a Black Hood pulp magazine, but it only lasted three issues. I thought that it was very interesting that they would take that particular character, and try to make a pulp character out of him.

EDWARDS: I’ll say this: they were trying. But there was another lesson that we learned: hit the fan with ten ideas—one of them may sell. All of the publishers do that.

JA: Was the page rate for doing the super-heroes the same as for the humor work back then?

EDWARDS: I don’t know. That was a whole, separate department. I never got involved with that.

JA: So you really didn’t do much with the guys who did the super-heroes.

EDWARDS: It was a combination [of things]. Harry called me one day and said, “Joe, I don’t think I’ll be around long.” I said, “Why? You’re doing such a good job.” He said, “That’s my problem. John has been asking me to keep his son Richard under my wing, and teach him what I know. I see the handwriting on the wall. I’ve gotta get out of here.”

EDWARDS: We would meet up there for a Christmas party. What it was, we would get our assignment over the phone. “Do six pages. I need a page, I need two pages.“ You would do it, and you would either send in a messenger if they need it immediately, or you would bring it in, which was always preferable because if there were any corrections, you could do them on the spot. So it was a very loose situation, but they catered mostly to the artists in that sense.

JA: Well, Shorten was with the company up until 1957. Didn’t Sam Schwartz go with him to Tower Comics?

JA: We haven’t really talked about Harry Lucey.

EDWARDS: Yes. Sam left for that, and was the editor. Sam lived a few blocks away from Harry so [they had] a [personal] relationship. Harry said, “You want to be editor? Be editor.” Unfortunately, Tower didn’t make it. Harry was the president and the publisher.

JA: Right, but those were great comic books. I have heard that, when Tower folded, Harry didn’t tell Sam. EDWARDS: That’s right. [chuckles again] Sam cried to me, “He didn’t even tell me.” So I said, “Look, Sam, business is business, and if Harry did

EDWARDS: He was a sweetheart with a wonderful sense of humor. You know, each person has an individual quality or a statement that you make.

Harry used to always say to me, “Let’s get together and we’ll sharpen the pencil,” [Jim chuckles] meaning “Let’s go over and we’ll see if all the numbers jive.” When we were fighting for more money up there, Harry would say, “Well, we’ve got to sharpen the pencils, Joe.” Harry came from St. Louis. He had an advertising agency which went kaput. He had been up at MLJ with Harry Shorten before I came up there. We became very dear friends. He was a wonderful friend and an artist.

46

Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

His technique was different and occasionally he would jump in and do an “Archie” story. Harry would always help out when needed; he could give you two, three pages. Now in my case, I was flexible. I would do a half a page, a quarter-a-page, a whole page, [mutual chuckling] a twopager, three pages, six pages. There was a time I did a whole Jughead book because the deadline was up. You were given these wonderful opportunities, and as crude we may have been, we were able to put something down on paper that came alive. And the deadlines were always there because of the one factor at the time: 64 pages was a lot to produce.

And if you had five, six books to come out each month, it was a lot of work.

JA: There was a guy who did some writing there who became a famous literary agent. His name is Scott Meredith, but I don’t think “Meredith” was his real last name.

EDWARDS: His last name was “Feldman.” Yes, Scott and I were very dear friends. Scott lived not too far from me in Brooklyn. When I came up there, Scott was the assistant editor to Harry Shorten, putting the books together. He was good! He was a young fellow and I had just gotten married. He was a wonderful, shy guy. He met his wife, and he used to ask my wife and me over for dinner and lunch, then he would ask us very personal questions about marriage.

Scott was a very clever guy with a good business sense. Once he said, “Joe, I’m going to give you some stuff that I don’t know if you’re going to find anywhere. I’m going into business with my brother, but I need somebody outside that can be an advertising agency to control all the artwork and the stuff.” Now, I had just come out of the Army, and I had a little son. He said, “I can’t pay you anything.” I said to him, “I’ve got to eat and I’ve got a son. I just came out, I can’t do a hell of a lot for you.” So he says, “Well, think about it.” I did, and I discussed it with my wife, and I said, “If I go in with him, he could go bust, too.” He had come up with a concept, a ploy. You ever hear of P.G. Wodehouse? Well, [Scott] was his agent and, as a result, [Scott] came in contact with some people in Hollywood. He discovered that, in Hollywood, when you submitted a script and they would make you an offer for it, you either agreed to it or you said no, and they would say, “Forget it,” and you would take it to another movie studio. When you took it to the next movie studio, you went through the mill.

Scott said to me, “Joe, I think there’s an area that has to be explored.” I said, “Like what?” now being in the business at the time. He says, “Did you ever hear of a writer, Ed McBain?” Ed McBain was just an ordinary writer, and Scott took him under his wing, nursed him along. He made him stop drinking, and he sold his stuff. He became quite famous because of Scott. But anyway, he said what he was going to do and I said, “You’re sticking your neck out. It’s risky, but hey! In life, if you don’t take a risk, you’re not going to get anything.” He said to me, “What I’m

Great Scott!

According to a Googled history site, Scott Meredith (nee Scott Feldman?) “helped to revolutionize post-World War II American publishing,” via his innovation, mentioned by Joe, of auctioning properties and his pioneering of commercial tie-ins. He was also, according to that site, “one of the first to assemble the ghost-written celebrity autobiography.” Whatever ambivalence we may have toward some of those developments, the fact remains that he was an important figure. He died in 1993, but his Scott Meredith Literary Agency continues to thrive.

In the early 1940s, however, he wrote stories for MLJ, and Joe says that “The Web” was one of “his babies.” This splash page from Zip Comics #30 (Oct. 1942) may or may not have been scripted by Feldman/Meredith—and may or may not have been drawn by later Quality artist John Cassone. Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

going to do is take Ed McBain’s stuff, I’m going to peddle it to Hollywood, and the way I’m going to do it is different. I am going to auction it off. I’m going to put it out on the market to all the movie studios at the same time.

Let them bid on it.” That was his concept. I said, “It sounds good to me.

But not being in the business, I wish you a lot of luck.” He said, “Well, I’m sorry that you can’t come along.” I said, “Gee, I would love to. I’m doing well with MLJ.” At that time, MLJ was doing well, and they gave me back my job when I came out of the Army.

JA: But that was that the law, then. Didn’t they have to?

EDWARDS: I don’t know. I know I came back from the Army, I went up into the place, and Harry says, “I can give you back your job.” I walked into John Goldwater’s office, and he said, “Hey, you’re back. How soon can you start drawing for me?” They knew what I could do. So I had this offer, I had a newborn baby, and there was money that had to be made. I said to Scott, “I really know that you’re good, and I’d love so much to work with you,” and he wanted to make me into not a partner, but I would be somebody up at his office. He was in midtown Manhattan, him and his brother. It was tough going at the beginning. They didn’t make it so easy.

Overnight success doesn’t come too fast, and he was broke. I stayed in touch with him, and then suddenly, the dam broke and he became a recognized literary agent. There was one time that he asked me if I had anything that I’d like to peddle—and I was working with Gil Kane, as a matter of fact.

Oh, gee, this is getting convoluted. Gil became quite good as time went by. He used to come over to the house. He said, “Maybe we can come up with some ideas.” So I said, “Well, let’s put our heads together, and we’ll see.” I wrote at the time because I was so busy with Archie, so he kept

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

begging me, “Come on, Joe. You came up with ‘Li’l Jinx,’ you’re good at that. Maybe we can do something.” I said, “Gil, I only have 24 hours in a day.” He begged me and pleaded. I said, “Gil, for you, I’ll do it.”

Anyway, I came up with an idea called Heads and Tails, of which I have one or two pages. It was a daily. Picture this: every day in the newspaper, it would be a birthday, an anniversary, some event that a celebrity would be involved—Groucho Marx, Katherine Hepburn, Tallulah Bankhead, George Bernard Shaw—and we worked together on it. The gags had something to do with famous celebrities. It was like flipping a coin. It’d come up heads and we’d have tails. And with Groucho Marx, he would come up with these quips, and we would put it into the strip. Gil drew a couple and we started to peddle it around. He suddenly got very much in demand, and I was in demand, so we let the strip go. But I saved some of them because he did a beautiful job on it. I thought it should have made the newspapers, but it was clean water. Should I throw away clean water? It was a risk. In those days, everything was risky.

47

EDWARDS: Now look, I am a very modest man. I don’t blow my own horn.

JA: I know, but I’m trying to get you to.

EDWARDS: I know, but I worked with Bob on it. We would say, “Look, it’s a good character.” We seemed to hit a raw nerve with “Archie.“ So that’s why I say Bob and I did the first book together.

Harry was very instrumental in creating it.

JA: It sounds to me like you had a lot of input into the creation of the character.

EDWARDS: I think I did. Let me tell you one other thing: when you’re working with creative people—Harry Shorten, Bob Montana, and all the other guys that I’ve mentioned—you say a phrase and a word, and the other guy picks it up. It’s thrown into the pot, and that was my contribution at the time.

JA: Well, Archie is a lot like Henry Aldrich.

JA: What was Scott like to work with?

Hi-Jinx

EDWARDS: Yes, it all filters together.

You can’t separate and say, “‘A’ is one thing,” you can’t nail it down a hundred per cent. There were a lot of things going on, and it filters into your brain, and you come up with [an idea]. I worked a lot of old “Jinx” with my family, with Eda, my wife. Her name is Eda Lisa, which I think is very pretty.

EDWARDS: Very, very pleasant. In fact, This autographed page Joe Edwards’s hugely popular “Li’l Jinx” he always looked up to me. That’s what from Reggie’s Joke Book #28 (Jan. 1974), appeared in Robin drove me crazy. [more mutual chuckling] Snyder’s first-person history publication The Comics!, Vol. 19, #5 He was younger than me, and he was a (May 2008). [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.] good writer. We would talk about stories, and he did something with P.G. And she’s just as pretty as that.

Wodehouse and George S. Kaufman. That was a show with one other guy [Moss Hart].

JA: It’s a great name.

JA: I have Scott Meredith as writing the super-heroes, but not the EDWARDS: It’s German. The mountain itself is a whole ’nother story. If humorous stuff. you’ve got a minute, I’ll tell you quickly. Eda and I are Jewish, and Eda EDWARDS: He did the straight stuff, but no, he didn’t do too much in the way of comedy. He was not a funny guy. He was extremely serious.

JA: I have him writing “The Black Hood,” “Black Jack,” and “The Web.” EDWARDS: Yeah, those were his babies. By the way, I’ll tell you a little aside. There was a comics story where there was a big table with a bunch of writers around, discussing a story. And the guy who was standing there was a caricature of Scott Feldman. I’m sorry I threw it away. [Scott pointed at the drawing and said], “Joe, you want to see something? This is Bob Montana. He did this to me. [mutual chuckling] So I said, “Well, when are you going to shoot him?” He said, “No, I like it.”

JA: Did Harry Shorten create most of the super-heroes? He created The Shield. Did he create The Black Hood, The Web, and Jaguar, too?

EDWARDS: I would say pretty much, yes. He was in charge, and he was good with creating new stuff.

“Ships In The Night” JA: You’ve talked about how much you loved Bob Montana, who worked on “Archie.” Do you feel like you were one of Archie’s creators, since you kicked around ideas for the first story?

was born in Germany. Her parents were running out of Germany because Hitler came into power. On the way, Eda was born, but her father and mother had visas to leave Germany. They got to the border to leave, to ship out, and were told, “You can’t take Eda. She’s a German citizen.”

They’re not going to leave her there. One of the people, who to this day I classify as a pure, pure, unadulterated angel, lived in the same town as her father and he was at the gangplank at the time. He said, “You can’t leave your daughter here.” They said, “We have no intention.” So he said, “Why don’t you do this? Take my visa that’s all clear, and take her. I’ll catch another boat.” So to this day, I believe he was an angel. So that’s how she got here. And she’s very bright. Someday, you’ll see how bright she really is. She wrote some beautiful stuff. She’s a good writer.

JA: There was a guy who was an artist named Pen Shumaker.

EDWARDS: Oh, sure! He had one arm.

JA: Really? Was “Pen” his real first name?

EDWARDS: Yeah. He was an inker, and Harry, I would say, took pity on him and gave him a lot of work. He was a good inker, solid line, and he had one arm. The other one was like half gone, so he could hold a paper and ink with it.

JA: He mainly did the straight stuff, right?

48

Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

Running Out Of Pep The last Golden Age “Shield” story appeared in Pep Comics #65 (Jan. 1948). By then Archie had long since taken over the cover spot (#65’s cover was seen last issue) and lead position in stories, as per this Bill Vogoda-drawn splash— and Joe Edwards’ own “Li’l Jinx” was also featured prominently.

Here’s an odd twist: On p. 44 of our previous issue, we printed a sample page of “Shield” art by one “Martin Paul.” Amazingly, in putting together this montage, we learned that that artist was in fact doing his own version of the final page from the final “Shield” story, as pictured at left, presumably with art by Irv Novick. Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher for the scans. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

EDWARDS: Yes. When I came up, he was working straight stuff. Later, when “Archie“ took off, he inked some of mine and everybody else’s [work].

Everybody’s work was touched by somebody else. The only one that was exclusive was mine in “Li’l Jinx.”

JA: When you met Shumaker, how old would you say he was?

EDWARDS: I’d say about 35-ish. He was a portrait artist. He did a portrait of my son. I don’t know if we saved it, but he loved to paint and he was good.

JA: Did he work for the company into the late ’40s, the 1950s?

EDWARDS: Yeah, I think so, until he passed away. He was a very friendly guy, and he was accepted by all. He had plenty of work up there. Inking was always available.

JA: There’s a writer named William Woolfolk. Is there anything about him that you remember?

EDWARDS: Yes, I met him up there, and he later went into television. [We were] ships in the night. I’d see him at the office, and that was it. “Hello, how are you?”

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

“I Didn’t Let Anyone Touch [‘Li’l Jinx’] Except Me” JA: Tell me about “Li’l Jinx.”

49

EDWARDS: At the beginning, the sales were fantastic. In fact, John Goldwater called me in one time.

“You’ve got a 75% sale. That’s great.” I said, “Thank you.” Then, later, he kept insisting on meddling with the strip, and as a result, I lost readership.

EDWARDS: “Li’l Jinx” was the only feature that I didn’t let anyone touch JA: Why weren’t you allowed to sign except me. Harry called me in the it? office and said, “Joe, I know you’ve got EDWARDS: Some were, and some a load of work, but we’re looking for a weren’t. That was another bone of little girl strip.” So I said to him, “Well, contention. John bawled Harry out what are you looking for?” Now I had for letting me sign some of them. done, in the Army, a strip called Private Jinx, which was very close to JA: But few stories were signed. Why Sad Sack. When I came home from were they reluctant to allow that? the Army, and Harry [asked me for a new strip], my wife Eda says to me, EDWARDS: Because at the beginning “Joe, why don’t you use the name of it, if you read the cover, it said, ‘Jinx’?’” So I said, “Yeah!” The story “Presented by John Goldwater.” evolved because one of my sons was [Actually, the John Goldwater credit born on Halloween. We started to put appeared in Archie digests years our heads together and I said, “If it’s later, for a time. —Jim.] That was it!

Halloween, then ‘Jinx’ is perfect.” [Jim He wanted the credit for it. [Years chuckles] So we called her “Li’l Jinx.” passed before] they allowed [creator What’s their [last] name? Holiday! credits]. But I told you what I used to Halloween is a holiday, so we called do. I’d put my signature in the trees in the father “Happy Holiday” and the the splash panel, and I would put it in mother was “Merry.” Jinx took over the the bark and the ground, a passing strip, and the father’s [first] name was car, a commercial something like that. [shortened to] “Hap.” That was Harry’s So I got it in, but it took the juice out suggestion. I said, “I don’t know, I like of it. [“Li’l Jinx”] was a good strip, ‘Happy’ better.” So he says, “All right, Jinxed Again! and then it was going somewhere. use ‘Hap’ in the meantime.” So Li’l A Joe Edwards page, possibly from Li’l Jinx #11 (Nov. 1956)—but at any Harry also did something else with Jinx was born on Halloween, and the rate, reprinted in Archie’s Pals and Gals #123 (2008). Thanks to Jim “Jinx,“ which was very nice. Harry family was called the Holidays. My Amash & Teresa R. Davidson. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.] was helpful. He used to say to me, kids would give me bright sayings, “We’ll squeeze it in wherever we can.” So when they had half a page, a and I’d watch their antics. Then later, as time went by, the mother sort-of quarter of a page, a two-pager or one-pager, he’d say, “Give me a ‘Li’l took a back role, and the father took over. So it was a father relationship Jinx.’” That was the way it was being [positioned]. with the daughter.

JA: In a certain way, I always thought there was a little Baby Snooks in there.

EDWARDS: Yeah, kinda. Like I said, it’s a lot of pieces that come together.

I think maybe that was behind it because that, roughly, is it. So there was something else: why the father came in because you need a scapegoat or somebody who does the pratfall. So anyway, I opened the door on that.

Harry said, “That will be your baby,” because they felt that between Bob Montana and myself, it was like sharing, because Bob had gotten the credit [for “Archie“], and I never stepped on his lines.

Harry loved it, saying, “We got a winner.” He says, “I talked them into getting a book for you. We’re going to do a Li’l Jinx book.” But now came the rub. I was so happy that they were willing to put “Li’l Jinx“ together, but John Goldwater, in his infinite wisdom, seeing how he “created” Archie, calls me in and said, “Joe, you know what you need? Something different.” I didn’t need him to tell me. He said, “What I want to see is four one-panel gags on the cover.” I said, “But that’s overwhelming the reader, and it shouldn’t be. It should be a billboard, a single billboard.”

And he said, “I think we should have the four. Maybe, once in a while, three.” We argued about it and of course, you know who won. So it started off great.

JA: Li’l Jinx took over the Ginger comic book, I think. Li’l Jinx’s first issue was actually #11, and it went to issue 16.

Okay, a Bill Vigoda story, one of many. Dan DeCarlo’s brother died, and they lived up in Scarsdale. Frank Doyle, Harry Lucey, Sam Schwartz, and myself got in my car and we drove up to Scarsdale. I lived in Long Island, and I went over the bridge and went over to where the wake was.

We were there and we left. We’re going down the parkway, and they had more tolls up there than you can believe it, at that time. Every two feet, it seemed like there was a [toll booth].

You’ve got to picture this: Harry, Sam, and Frank are in my car. I’m driving, and we come to the first toll gate and we paid. It was ten cents at the time, which tells you how long ago this was. We’re riding back, and we know that there’s another toll gate right up ahead. And you’re dealing with all creative thinkers. I said “thinkers.” We came up with a scheme. [chuckles] What we did with the next toll booth, I paid the dime and I said, “Oh, by the way, I‘m paying for the guy behind me.” So I gave him another dime. Bill Vigoda is [in the car] behind me. He’s ready to pay and the guy’s shaking his head, points to the car up ahead—us—and said that we paid the toll. And we did this for three toll booths up ahead. On the fourth one, we didn’t pay. Now Bill, he [drives through the toll booth], and the horns go off. We‘re further up, and we’re hysterical. We’re about like a couple of feet up ahead waiting on the side. He drives past us, and he shakes his fist. He never forgot [what we did to] him. That was one of the Bill stories. We always had a Bill Story. He was funny, but he took it in the right spirit. I mean everyone would.

50

Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

Another time, we went into a meeting at Archie, down on Church Street. It was after hours, around 5:30, and we were going to go out to dinner together. We were just going to schmooze, and Bill was among the group... Harry Lucey, Sam Schwartz, Frank Doyle, Dan DeCarlo, and myself, and they’re closing up the office. We’re on the 6th floor and as we get in the elevator—they had the kind where you close the gates and you lock it so nobody can come in on that floor. We go down to the 5th floor, and a man gets in, and he’s going to lock the gate. We’re all standing behind him. Bill looks over his shoulder, over his head—he was a short guy—and he looks over at this guy. The guy’s going through a box of keys, a whole ton of keys. Bill’s standing there and he makes sure the guy looks at him. Bill looks at him and takes his finger, without a word, and points to one of the keys. [mutual chuckling] Now Bill doesn’t know the guy, we don’t know him either. He points to the key, the guy takes the key, it doesn’t work. Bill shrugs his shoulders. “I didn’t know.” [laughter] Bill was just what they call a “patsy,” but he was fun and he took it in the right way. There was one other time. The art room at Archie was divided in partitions by a little, slight wall, about six feet high.

There were drawing boards in each cubicle. Bill was working [in one cubicle], and Bob Montana and I were working in another cubicle. Just to keep a little action going, we took one of the drawings we had finished, and threw it on the floor. We looked at each other, we picked up the paper, and we threw it over the wall, into Bill’s place. Now Bill is in the other room, inking. So all of a sudden, we hit him with that page. So he turns out, [groans] “Ohhhh.” It’s just a groan, that’s all we were going to get, so after a few minutes later, we grabbed another piece of paper that we finished the artwork on, and we threw it over the top. And it hit Bill again. Now, we had declared war, practically. Bill then, after he throws a page back, we threw it back. Now in the meantime, we were drawing next week’s strip, and Bill was working on something with Archie. Finally, we took two and three pages, and we threw them over. So Bill goes out. Now right next to his room, there was a three-foot trash can. He goes into his cubicle, stands up on a chair, and he’s going to dump it into our room.

Just at that moment, who should walk into the artists’ stable but John Goldwater? He walks in, and picture Bill standing on a chair, ready to dump the trash can into our room. [mutual chuckling] And Bill didn’t see him for a second. John goes, “A-hem!” Bill turns around, he sees John, and he says to John, “They started it!” [mutual uproarious laughter] John knew, John went along with it, but he just turned around and walked out, smiling. But he never got to us. We never got the [trash dumped on us].

Harry Lucey did get a strip up there that I remember where the butler opens the door for Archie and Jughead, and the butler says something like, “Walk this way,” and he walked flay-footed, so Archie and Jughead walked flay-footed. [mutual chuckling] It was a joyous time. We loved each other. The guys were intelligent, and they came up with some very clever stuff.

One of the guys up there would cut out all the Playboy photos and hang them on the window of his partition. It became a rogue’s gallery of females. But Terry Szenics, she was Hungarian and she used to come up to the offices. She was an inker [and a letterer]. Her husband [Zoltan, usually called “Zully” by his friends. —Jim] worked with Terrytoons, and he taught her how to ink and letter. She mentioned something to Harry [about the nude photos], and Harry went in and said, “Now look, guys.

You’ve got females in the office. so you’ll have to take the photos down.” I think John might have mentioned it, too. So they took them down, not that it mattered to any of us.

Draw, Baby, Draw!

Joe Edwards was a versatile guy who loved to draw, as witness this merry montage: a sketch of a modern girl— another he labeled “maiden”—and a “Barney Bantam” logo he had designed. Who’s Barney Bantam?

Darned if we know! Thanks to Eda Lisa Edwards. [Barney Bantam TM & ©2009 the respective trademark & copyright holders; other art ©2009 Estate of Joe Edwards.]

Now Harry Lucey did a strip about Mexicans. I don’t remember the name of the strip, but it was very short-lived. He had this beautiful Mexican woman getting out of an open-aired open convertible, and a little Mexican character was hanging onto her boobs. Terry inked that particular job. She inked the hands and the boobs. Harry says, “How can you do that?” She said, “Because it was there.” Her elevator didn’t get all the way to the top floor.

But she inked it and after that, whatever was on the page, she would ink.

If a fly speck was there, she would ink it. She said, “I get paid to ink.” So Bill Vigoda says, “Thank God I cleaned off my fingerprints off the page.”

I worked with Zully at Demby’s. I remember one lesson he gave me. He was drawing a figure and he said, “You take the eyeball and put it between the two eyeballs, and that gets your distance.” So you pick up a little here, and you pick up a little there. It goes into your psyche and whenever you need it, you use it. You never know which piece fits in, but you pick it up.

“I’m Gonna Look In My Crystal Ball” JA: When the super-heroes are fading out and “Archie“ is taking over, do you think that anybody felt a sense of loss about the super-heroes?

Because obviously, some of the people lost their jobs because some people couldn’t adapt from drawing “Steel Sterling“ to drawing “Archie.“ EDWARDS: Well, the question is a very interesting one, because Irv Novick was the champion up at our place. He immediately was able to get a job [at another company], no problem. The shift-over was very easy.

“The Shield“ was dying anyway. First of all, it was an imitation of

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

“Superman,“ so it didn’t really create a new environment or a new source.

“Archie“ created a whole new concept. Up at [DC Comics], it was easy for Irv Novick to step into. Paul Reinman wasn’t around very much longer.

He was a fine artist, so he really didn’t mind. Our cartoons were just a way to pay the rent.

JA: But some of the artists adapted to doing “Archie,“ and some didn’t.

EDWARDS: Most of them tried, but they didn’t have that feeling that “Archie“ conveyed. It was a flavor. You read it, you knew what it was. But a very famous guy came down. Not an “Archie“ man, but outside, one of the top artists. He was a good artist. They respected him. He was very well known. He came up and tested out. When I say “tested,” they asked him to draw a one-page gag, but it looked too artificial and strained. One of the things with “Archie“ was that it was loose and it flowed. It wasn’t forced.

In his test page, he put the fine work, the muscles and all of that, were being put into play. But it didn’t fit to the Archie mold. So a lot of them came up and tried, but they didn’t make it.

JA: The MLJ super-hero books didn’t really sell that well, did they?

EDWARDS: No. JA: Do you think the company, if it hadn’t been for “Archie,“ would have ceased to exist?

EDWARDS: [laughs] Wait, I’m gonna look in my crystal ball. I would go along with what you just said. Let me put it this way: where there was a buck, they were there. If it wasn’t making money, they would drop it.

Another Bob Montana story. We’re up on the sixth floor on Church Street. Every time we came up, the whole office stopped, and they would crowd around and watch us work. Bob would do something, and I would write this. It was a give-and-take. We’re working up there and one day, [chuckles] all of a sudden, we didn’t have any room. There were four cubicles, maybe six feet by four feet, so they were very narrow. [The other day] you reminded me of the Marx Brothers picture where they all crowded into the state room [A Night at the Opera]. That was the situation. [More than once], we were up there, and Bob and I had to go home and finish up what we came up to do [because there wasn’t enough room to work in those cubicles]. So one day, Bob says to me, “I’m going to

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fix them. Play along. Don’t say anything.“ [chuckles again] Bob opens the window, and there’s a ledge outside about three feet wide. He puts his foot out the window. He says, “You guys keep going, I’m going to be working out here.” This is the stuff we would get away with. It was always no holds barred and whenever the moment came, and whatever humor was there, we would work at it. I think I told you, one time with Dan DeCarlo—he used to live up in Scarsdale and he came down by taxi from the train. It was a very, very windy day and his portfolio opened up, and all the artwork went out on the street and cars ran over it. He was running, and... do you remember Dan? He was short.

JA: A little pudgy.

EDWARDS: Yeah, “pudgy” is the word. He picked up all the pages.

[There were tire tracks all over the pages.] He looked at them, I looked at them, I says, “Oh, my God. Dan, all of that work.” He said, “I’ll try to white it out.” [mutual laughter] I came to the office one day, and I was supposed to meet Bob Montana. Bob came up, and he‘s sweating. “Bob, what happened?” He said, “I got a flat. Where do I get the flat? Two blocks from here.” So Harry walks in and said to Bob, “I need a cover. Joe is busy, so why don’t you do the cover. You’ve been doing them all along so do another one. I’ll give you the copy, you’ll do it.” Bob says, “But the car’s downstairs. It‘s got a flat.” Harry says, “So? Do the page, get paid, and call somebody.” Bob says, “I have to go down there. I’ll call somebody.” He goes downstairs, about a half hour later, maybe more, he walks back in, and his hands are black, dirty. Harry said, “What happened?” Bob said, “Well, I changed the tire myself.” [Jim chuckles] True story! Harry said, “You jerk, you would have made more than you would have paid the guy to come over, and jack up the car and fix the car.” And Bob said, “I didn’t want to.” Bob had a reputation, maybe because he had a mother and a sister to support. So I can’t fault him for this, but certain things get ingrained in one. It was just something ingrained with Bob. He was very tight with a dollar, and I think maybe he was—“frugal” would be the word. I don’t blame him for it, because he toughed it with the money.

JA: And also having lived through the Depression...

EDWARDS: Yes, so he really watched the pennies. He figured it was worth his time to fix this tire than to sit down and draw a picture, which he finally did. He made the money for drawing the cover, and he saved the cost of paying someone to change a tire.

JA: These are the kind of stories I love to hear, and I don’t get enough people who tell them to me. I’ve interviewed a lot of people who won’t tell me these kinds of stories. They think these kinds of stories are not important, but they are important.

EDWARDS: I think it rounds out the people that worked at Archie, because it shows them as being human.

JA: Exactly my attitude. Otherwise, there’s little reason for me to do this.

There’s some more people I want to ask you about. One was a lady who worked on “Archie” and “Ginger” and “Susie” during World War II, and her name was Claire Moe. EDWARDS: “There was a young woman called Moe....” To be very honest, my recollection of her was something to do with Harry Sahle, but I don’t quite remember, exactly. As you know, we used to come in occasionally, and our tracks would cross while we went in. But I didn’t get to know Sahle as much as I wanted to. Sahle came up there with Mike Roy. So it was like another clique. Each one would bring in somebody, and I do remember the name “Moe.” But I don’t remember too much. You know, ships in the night. “Hi, good luck,” that was it.

Let George Do It! George Frese’s lead splash for Archie’s Pal, Jughead #1, whose only cover date given was “1949.” [©2009 Archie Comic Publications.]

JA: During World War II, do you remember very many women working up there?

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Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

married to a girl named Lily. That was the joke: Lily White.

Archie Goes To Mars Writer/artist Bob White’s chief claim to fame in comics was his creation Cosmo the Merry Martian, as per the cover of the 2nd issue, dated Nov. 1958. With thanks to the Grand ComicBook Database site. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

EDWARDS: I told you about “Ginger” and Terry Szenics; those are the two. I really don’t recall too many.

JA: In the ’40s and the ’50s, were there any black people working there?

EDWARDS: I don’t think so. But the door was open to Harry’s office.

Harry’s place was always open. There was never any conscious effort to keep the blacks out.

JA: Do you remember an inker on “Pat the Brat” named Ray Osrin?

EDWARDS: He came in later. I guess that Al Fagley and Harry got together, and they came up with this “Pat the Brat.” I did a few of them, so it was passed around. It never took off, as far as that was concerned.

Fagley was quite good. He was a funny guy, but we didn’t have a relationship in the sense other than to meet like ships in the night, “Hi, how are you?”

JA: We have not talked about one of my favorite cartoonists at Archie: Dexter Taylor.

EDWARDS: Oh, Dexter. [chuckles] Yeah, I think he was a left-handed artist. You probably understand what I’m saying. Each artist draws with a brush or with a pencil in a peculiar way, and he drew in a peculiar way.

[Jim chuckles] No, he held the brush, the pencil, in a funny way, his hand over the pencil. I can’t describe it. I’d have to show it to you. Dexter was a very nice guy. He believed in swimming and keeping healthy.

JA: Rudy LaPick remembered that Dexter had done some editing.

He was not one of my favorite people because he used to knife the guys behind their back. He would look at the work and he’d make suggestions, trying to buck to become editor. He finally wormed his way in by setting up something new. And I don’t know if I mentioned it to you, but I was friendly with most of the guys up there, and we were only interested—it wasn’t a big buck per page, but we were all pieceworkers in a sense. We did work by the page, and if anything didn’t come in right, you didn’t make a good living.

But Bob White came in, and I don’t know what his motivation was, but we noticed something about him that we didn’t particularly [like]. He came up with an idea that each artist was going to do—you would draw a left leg, I would draw a right leg on Archie, and one nostril and another nostril was another guy’s territory. Do you get the picture?

JA: Yes. EDWARDS: So what happened was the juice of the character was lost. Bill Vigoda and the other guys said, “[This] loses its spontaneity, it loses its flavor,” so they were very upset about it. Bob would say, “One guy will draw shoes, and another guy will draw fingers,” and this was not a way for an artist to work. We felt that it was not creative. It was mass production.

But he started to give us a routine and he went in with this idea to John Goldwater, who had an open door.

John says, “Look, I’m not in favor of this idea, but I’ll tell you what. I’m not above giving an idea a trial.” And when the word came down, we all came in: Bill Vigoda, Sam Schwartz, and myself. “No, this is not the way an artist works.” You do a head, you want the expression, you want the feeling... as you know, there’s a feeling that you put into the drawing and it was not there in this way. It was static. We tried it for one or two weeks, and it wasn’t working out. We were very despondent about it. Bill says, “I don’t like the way it looks. It doesn’t come out right, and it doesn’t even look like anything I did.” Bill and I checked out the other companies, and we went into John and we told John, “Look, we don’t like this system and we prefer not to do it. We’ll find another job someplace else.”

Well, Bill and I walked out and Goldwater said, “Where you going to go?” I said, “Well, Stan Lee made an offer for us so we thought we would accept it,” despite the fact that we were pretty much ensconced in Archie.

So it was a very big step. “Stan Lee wants to know what our secret is, and the writers up here all would like to work for Stan, if it came down to it.”

Anyway, as we walked out of the office, I’m walking down the hall, John gets on the phone. We hear it down the hall, John is yelling, and we figured it out. John is calling Stan Lee. He says, “You’re stealing my artists from me. You’re stealing my talent,” and Stan Lee didn’t know what he was talking about. [Jim laughs] He didn’t know. He says, “John, I don’t—” He said, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, you so-and-so... stealing the artists.” It turned out, right after that, that they decided to shoot the Bob White idea down. The work looked so terrible. Can you picture it?

JA: Yes. What he was trying to do was to get a uniform style.

JA: We have not talked about Bob White. He wrote, drew, and did some editing.

EDWARDS: But you can’t do that. We all drew the same characters, but there are little nuances [in our work that] show up. It gives it an individual flavor. So John said, “We canceled that, you guys.” So we went back to work. That was our experience with Bob White. The other thing that came down on the grapevine—I wasn’t privy to this—I know that Bob White was putting in bills for jobs he never produced. He was in a position where he could send in a bill, and they were very trusting, and they would make out a check for it. After a while, that kind-of backs up on you, that fool. That was one of the things that shot him down.

EDWARDS: [sighs] I don’t know where to start with Bob. I’ll be very honest. He wasn’t one of the favorite guys up there, and most of the guys gave him a wide berth. Well, the one joke that he did create was, he got

There was an office across the street from Archie when we were in downtown New York. Sam Schwartz couldn’t work at home, so they managed to get a warehouse, which is where the art returns were brought

EDWARDS: Dexter? No, the only editors I remember were—I go back before Victor Gorelick—a guy named Liebman. He was there a short time.

He was an assistant editor.

“[Our] Experience With Bob White”

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

back. They were stacked up in this loft there, and Sam had a key to go up and work any time that he wanted, and Bob White would come up there.

Sam and Bob were close friends. Sam used to tell me Bob White got involved in building, and he invested money in a building company in Connecticut. And on the back of all of his art pages were numbers, computations that Bob White used to make. He got to a point where he was so involved with phone calls, and there were two other guys involved, from what Sam told me—Sam used to tell me things. He used to tell me, “You know, the jerk, he could make some money, so what does he do?

He’s sitting there, figuring out the money for the building.” It turned out later that Bob White took a hosing. These two guys screwed him, and he lost all the money.

“We Thought Funny” JA: Speaking of Sam Schwartz, why did he put another “m” at the end of his first name? [even more mutual chuckling] Why did he do that?

EDWARDS: That’s my boy Sam! It was just for show, just to make it different. Somewhere in my files, my early ones, I signed my name “J-OE-E” because of Sam [Jim laughs]. He was one of the funniest guys I knew; always a delight. I miss him so terribly. You can put that in, in big letters.

JA: Did you get to know Bill Woggon?

EDWARDS: No, I knew of him through Harry Shorten. Woggon had a brother who was a cartoonist, so he went into the business.

JA: Did you know Al Hartley?

EDWARDS: I was not too close with him. I thought he was one of the big talents that Archie had. He was one of the finest writers and artists. I had a great respect for him.

JA: Tell me more about George Frese.

EDWARDS: George Frese worked for Grumman Aircraft. George was on their art staff, and he used to send in artwork to Archie. One day, he came up and Harry took a look at the work. He looked at me, asked me what [I thought]. “I like it. He’s got a nice style. It’s different, but it’s funny, which is the first criteria of Archie. The guy knows how to tell a funny story, and his drawing is a little off, but I could accept it.” Remember, I said “story.”

So Harry says, “Okay, I’ll take a chance. He told George, “Do me a twopage story with Archie.” He brought it in, it was very funny. Then Harry took a liking to him. He says, “Okay, do some more. Do a six-pager.” He gave up his job at Grumman, and he would work at home. He became very prolific.

JA: In the ’60s, when Archie started doing super-heroes again, they just didn’t quite make it, really. Why do you think that Archie is better at humor than adventure comics?

EDWARDS: [chuckles] Well, to pin medals on a couple guys’ chests— including mine—we thought funny. We all had a good sense of humor.

Bob Montana, Harry Shorten... we could see something and make it funny. It would jump out of the page and as a result, the supermen were done much better by Marvel and DC. They had guys that were more adroit with it. The ones that were up at our stable was Novick and there were one or two others, like Bob Fujitani. There were others. They were good, but how many times can you save the world? [Jim laughs] How many times? With humor, you didn’t have the same punch line every time.

One of the things about Victor Gorelick that you should know: one guy would come in, he would tell a joke, and Victor would pass it along to the next guy, and the next guy [who came in]. Victor was very nice. He also felt that the artists should be given their freedom. Some companies straightjacket you. It’s gotta be this way, and no other way. When I’d write

53

a story with Jughead, I’d actually almost hear Jughead and Archie saying, “No, Joe, we don’t do that. We don’t go that way.” [Jim chuckles again] Honest! The characters in your head would talk to you. Many a story where I would want to go this way, the characters would say, “No, that’s not the way to go,” and it always turned out a lot better. Harry was the one that gave you that feeling that if you opened the door to a new viewpoint, it doesn’t have to be the way you originally wrote it. It can be moved in another direction, and that’s really the basis of all the Archie writing.

JA: Richard Goldwater was always listed as the Managing Editor. How hands-on was Richard on the books? Because I have the impression that he was very hands-on.

EDWARDS: He was only hands-on because, hey, it was an easy task to get the artwork and the scripts in, and then say, “I like this. I don’t like that.”

Richard was not the same as Victor or Harry Shorten. Harry Shorten was, in my estimation, the kind of guy you could call up and say, “Harry, I’m kind-of stuck with an idea.” But Richard was not that type of editor.

Richard could pick out of a pile of stuff and say, “All right, use this for the cover.”

JA: Victor always downplays what he does. I don’t understand why, though, because let’s face it, Victor’s edited a ton of books for a lot of years, and yet he’s very modest about what he does.

EDWARDS: I know Vic, I went back with him. We used to socialize, we used to go to the opera together, and my feeling was there’s management, and then there’s labor. And even though he’s in management, I always felt that Victor was very appreciative that he was in the position where he was doing what he loved, and he was quite good at it. I found him to be a very nice editor and a very nice person. You felt like you were part of something, so that was an important ingredient when you’re working for some company.

JA: That’s the way he makes me feel, too, so I agree. [Joe laughs] By the way, for several years in the ’60s, you wrote and drew stories for Archie’s Mad House. Did you like doing that?

Teen Power— Teen Tower!

Tower Comics’ Tippy Teen #1 had a cover date of Nov. 1965—and a cover illo probably drawn by editor Sam(m) Schwartz. With thanks to the GCD website. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

54

Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

EDWARDS: Mad House was merely a copy of what was being put out in the field. As I said, sometimes you follow. You want to be a leader in somebody else’s footsteps. There was another comic book, I think it was Stan Lee’s. For a short time, they put out a zany magazine. What was it called?

JA: Well, they had one called Zany, as a matter of fact.

EDWARDS: Well, it sold, and like any publisher, they want to jump in on it. Mad House was also done by a guy named Orlando Busino. He was also a great talent. I think of him occasionally because he was really creative.

“Dan [DeCarlo], Another Gem”

JA: Overall, what are your feelings today about the work you did for Archie?

EDWARDS: I’m rather proud of it. In fact, my wife and I dine out. There’s a place in the neighborhood, they give you a placemat. I will never, never let a placemat go without a drawing. It never will be in all my history. In fact, I think I did more placemats for the restaurant than I did comics for Archie.

JA: We have not talked at all about Dan DeCarlo.

EDWARDS: Ah, Dan, another gem. Oh, I could tell you stories about him. He was good. He was a master. I considered him a Michelangelo.

JA: Stan Goldberg, too.

JA: After the Li’l Jinx comic book was canceled, you did “Li’l Jinx” fillers until 1983.

EDWARDS: Oh, those were easy. They would call me up and they’d say, “We need a half a page, Joe. Do the half page of ‘Li’l Jinx’ Do another halfpager or a full page. We need a page.” It was an easy dollar, and I used to put in a “Li’l Jinx” here, a “Li’l Jinx” there. I could write it in my sleep. My wife helped me write some of this stuff. We also realized the kids were lonely out there, and they used to write very endearing letters. My wife started to write a “Dear Abby”-type [of page with Betty and Veronica talking to the readers]. We would get literally—I’m not exaggerating— thousands of letters. We started to work on it, and it started to expand. It helped sell the books because one of the kids would get his name in the book, so he bought the book for a couple of issues before and after. It was a good gimmick, because I have other stories related to that.

Anyway, “Li’l Jinx” started to get the pen pals, because we felt that there was a relationship. Now, going back in time with myself, when I was about eight, nine years old, I was fascinated with the cartoons. I wrote to Fleischer Studios, and I got one of the cels that [they used in a cartoon]. I was walking on Cloud Nine. That may have been what bit me, the bug. We were talking about it. We’d say, “If a kid gets anything in the mail when they come home from school that’s a cartoon or something from somebody that they knew or read about, it meant a lot to them.

EDWARDS: Well, Stan and I go way back.

JA: Stan was the one who gave me your phone number in the first place.

EDWARDS: Oh, that rat! [Jim laughs uproariously] Stan and I used to go to dinners and lunch. I still see him at the “Berndt Toast” luncheons. I think he’s a great talent. He took over from DeCarlo, and he was worthy of the mantle.

JA: The Archie style that Bob Montana created was modified by Dan DeCarlo. Did Dan change when he started becoming the major Archie artist?

EDWARDS: Well, there was a time Stan Lee was trying to organize the guys so we would have a contract. Stan Lee had a meeting with all the cartoonists that he knew and at that time, through John Goldwater, we won a wonderful deal. We got immediately a $5 raise per page, and [paid for] reprints, which was found money. If you worked over two weeks, they gave you a vacation, so it was a good deal. Anyway, we got that and then finally, we got a call one day from the office. They said that Al Hartley was trying to come up to the place. Would it be all right with the guys if they accepted him? That was a tremendous feeling because they didn’t have to—why are they asking us? Well, they did ask us, and I remember I was in bed at the time, [chuckles again] going to sleep.

JA: Why did Li’l Jinx end in 1983?

JA: What time period are you talking about there?

EDWARDS: Well, I think I stopped doing stuff at that time. I kind-of got tired, and I guess maybe they felt that it wasn’t necessary any more.

JA: But you continued to write stories for other artists.

EDWARDS: With Sam, I did. Sam became editor up at Tower, so I wrote stuff for him up there.

JA: Was it Tippy Teen?

EDWARDS: Yes. JA: You quit working for Archie in the 1990s.

I seem to recall that one of my first stories was one of your last.

EDWARDS: I think it was about then. I really lost track of time, but that’s pretty good enough.

Archie’s Pals This recent convention photo spotlights key “Archie” (and earlier “Millie the Model”) artist Stan Goldberg, seated—with A/E interviewer (as well as “Archie”/”Sonic the Hedgehog” inker) Jim Amash. Seen in the insert is a 2000 pic of the late great “Archie” artist Dan DeCarlo. Photos courtesy of Jim Amash & Teresa R. Davidson and Joe Petrilak, respectively.

EDWARDS: It must have been around ’40 to ’50 somewhere. [NOTE: Joe’s memory is faulty here, because Al Hartley did not work for Archie during this time period, not working for the company until the 1960s.

Nor have I ever heard that Stan Lee ever tried to organize artists, although he was for a time a president of ACBA, the Academy of Comic Book Arts, in the 1970s. In fact, one of the reasons Stan left ACBA was because he felt certain people wanted to turn the group into a union, and he was not in favor of that. And since Richard Goldwater was not part of the company at that time either, but was in the 1970s, I feel that is probably the correct time period. —Jim.] Stan called all the guys, and he outlined with all the guys who were all in favor. In fact, there was one cartoonist—I’m trying to recall his name, I don’t remember exactly. He worked up at one of the other companies, committed suicide.

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

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weeks, where they couldn’t pay us.

The business was not good then.

JA: Was that in the 1950s?

EDWARDS: I think about maybe that, and maybe the ’60s.

JA: But you’re not sure.

EDWARDS: Well, the time has a way of changing.

“The Ones Whom I Met Were All Wonderful People” Joe And Eda And Comic Art The Edwardses at a comics convention a few years back, holding pages of “Archie and Me” and “Li’l Jinx” tales— flanked by Joe’s cover for Li’l Jinx #11 (Nov. 1956), which was actually the first issue, after she had debuted in other Archie Comics mags. Note Joe’s cover byline! [Cover ©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Of course, the business became weaker, and he couldn’t make a living out of this. I think his wife left him or something like that. Stan Lee tried to get all the guys organized, and Dan DeCarlo came over to me.

“Joe, what should we do?” I said, “Look, you made a victory with John and Richard. They’re recognizing us because they want to know if we want Al Hartley in the group,” which I never objected to. But Dan was a funny guy. He says, “Well, I’m going to go along with Stan.” Well, once I lost him and my buddy Sam Schwartz, at the time, he went out on his own. He went up to Tower so he wasn’t involved in it. [Again, Joe must be confusing dates because Tower Comics was in the 1960s. —Jim.] But Dan and I were sort-of leaders at the time, and then Dan said, “You know, let’s go along with Stan Lee.” I said, “Dan, you’re losing it because we already made the victory. We made an inroad, so why give it up?” He said, “Well, Stan Lee knew the inside. He was an editor.” I said, “Look, I think you’re making a mistake.” In fact, Gil Kane came over to me. He heard about what we did, and he said, “How do you do it?” I told him. Of course, they didn’t get vacations or reprints or anything. Gil said, “Boy, you guys did all right.” So I said, “Look, we were lucky, and John [Goldwater] went along with us.” So that was an interesting time with negotiations. And Dan was the one who threw in the monkey wrench. Of course, he thought that Stan Lee was going to fight for him. I sensed that it was not going to go that way, but I tried to convince Dan and he said, “No, I’m going to go along with him.” So that pulled it all apart, and all of a sudden, it started to unravel and they [the publishers], took advantage.

We lost the impetus to get a good contract with them. So those are the sad tales that you remember.

Dan was the kind of guy who didn’t want to go into anything or use his head. He would go along with you and hold your coat. You know, “You go in and talk to them and I’ll hold your coat.” A couple of times, we were on the phone and I’d say, “Look, Dan, we’ve got to get off the pot. We’ve got a good deal. Let’s expound on it. Let’s not let them off the hook.” But Dan always thought somebody else would help him, so I knew that we were going to lose. I knew the only way I could make a decent living was to work, and I used to produce a lot. I had “Li’l Jinx” and I had the Archie newspaper strip. It was hard work, I [worked] Sundays and Saturdays, but I felt it was worth it because the money was good, and it came in very regularly. There was only one time in the whole time I was up there, seven

JA: You had John Goldwater’s ear, more or less, right?

EDWARDS: Yeah, well, he treated me well and he appreciated us.

JA: Did everybody have that access to him?

EDWARDS: Yeah, but I think I was one of the few that walked in. They were all afraid of him. I was afraid of him, but nevertheless I never pressured him, threatened, or anything. I talked to him man-to-man.

Let me put it this way, Dan was very hard to get to. You thought that he was part of you, or that he was listening, but he didn’t really make it.

And his personality... he didn’t trust anybody. That was my evaluation. I mean, no matter what you did, he would trust you up to a certain point.

He had a gorgeous wife and his wife helped him with [current] fashions and everything, so he relied on her. He had a wall around him and I never got the feeling that he was completely trusting to anybody except his wife.

Well, the ones whom I met were all wonderful people, and they were fun people. A lot of people don’t have fun in their lives, and all of them that I’ve met, I’ve really treasured every one of them. It was a pleasure to be in something that after so many years is still viable, still selling, and the merchandising is what kicked it off, really, now. That’s where it’s at. And creating new ideas was always a challenge, which I still am doing. I write and I draw, and it‘s all new stuff to me. So anyway, I have no complaints about that. It’s a fascinating business, but I will say this; how many businesses do you know where kids, when they’re grown adults, will come over and say to you, “You gave me happy times”? There was one nurse who was taking care of my wife recently, and when she saw the drawings in my studio, she said, “Are you an artist?” I said, “Yeah, more or less.” She said, “What do you got to do with Archie?” I said, “Well, I started way back with Archie.“ There was dead silence. Her mouth dropped open, and she told this anecdote which I thought was interesting. She says, “My father was a traveling salesman. He was very rarely home, but he made sure on Valentine’s Day he would be home. And when he left for work, I would be asleep. He’d leave on my bed a bar of chocolate, and about four or five Archie comics.” She said, “I remember it to this day. I remember each one.” So she says, “You gave me a lot of joy and happiness.” Not too many industries can give you that kind of feeling.

JA: Everybody knows an Archie, everybody knows a Veronica, everybody knows a Betty, and certainly everybody either knows a Jughead or they are Jughead.

EDWARDS: Yeah, these were characters that we picked up along the way.

And the other thing with the trivia—look at Veronica and Betty. They

56

Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

Sidebar by Eda Lisa Edwards:

I

was married to Joe for 63 years, and we were together 24/7. In a sense I was also married to “Archie,” since he was such a part of our everyday life. Joe wrote, drew, and inked the work. We collaborated on scripts, using much material from our own kids. I became the “Dear Abby” of the Archie world, answering letters from kids all over the globe. I went through the tons of mail that was sent to us by Archie Comics and answered as many as the page permitted. Joe did the lettering.

Many of the letters were problems perceived by teenagers and younger who saw similar boy-girl problems they read about in the comics. Betty and Veronica were real to them. Some of the letters were quite humorous, and some were rather sad, particularly those from children living in poor countries. The girls wanted to have clothes like Veronica was wearing.

It was an enjoyable time, and to add a small bonus, our son collected many foreign postage stamps from the letters received. Judging from the huge stack of mail, I can say it was very successful at that time.

have the same face. All we did was change the hairdo and hair color. So all it is are tricks that we used, but became part of the Americana. We were happy doing it because it was creative. Thank God, I can look back and say it was the few businesses or industries where people will recognize what you did 60 years ago, and at the same time, love what you did, and have good words that made them happy. Any business that can make a person happy is very good; and when you’re very young, with all the doubts and fears that one has when growing up, you’re not sure about yourself. Archie filled that gap.

I’ve always felt that I’ve been a very lucky guy to be able to get the gift of writing and at the same time be able to put down on paper what I felt. But I want to thank you. The reason I want to thank you is because, for a long time, I’ve felt that all the cast of characters [early comics creators] that we’ve discussed should have been put down in some form for posterity. They were a tremendous, tremendous influence on the youth of our day and I think still to this day, and I think that they shouldn’t be forgotten. So that’s what I wanted you to know.

JOE EDWARDS Checklist [NOTE: The following Checklist is primarily adapted from information that appears in the online Who’s Who of American Comic Books (19291999), established by Jerry G. Bails. See ad on p. 36 to learn how to access this invaluable website. Names of features which appeared both in magazines with that title and in other magazines, as well, are generally not italicized below. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer.]

Name: Joseph Edwards (1921-2007) (writer, artist) Pen Name: Joe E. Education: Rome Academy; Hastings Animation School Influences: Walt Disney; Will Eisner Print Media (Non-Comics): artist – advertising; artist – posters for children’s cassettes; writer – 1980 The Guardian – Ancient (humor) [sic] Commercial Art & Design: children’s apparel; video – Land of I 1982 Comics In Other Media: gag cartoons (w)(a) for various publications; Leisure Acres (w)(a) 1980 in Retirement Village Humor Comics Studio/Shop: Demby Studio (w)(p)(i) c. 1937 [NOTE: Joe Edwards reported this was “before Superman,” but that is doubtful] Syndication: Archie comic strip (a) (dates uncertain, though possibly for both the McClure Syndicate and later King Features Syndicate)

the Bee-tective (w)(a) 1942-45; Captain Sprocket (w)(a) 1963-68, 1981-82; Charley Hoss (w)(a) 1974-83; Chimpy (w)(a) 1943-44; Coach Kleats (w)(a) 1986; covers (p)(i)(a) 1966-71; Cubby the Bear (w)(a) 1942-45; Dilton (w)(a) 1985; Gigi (w)(a) 1975, 1979-82; Greg (w)(a) 1977, 1981; Hot Dog (w)(a) 1984; house ads (w)(a) 194386; illustrations (a) 1978-84; It Shouldn’t Happen to a Dog (a) 1942; Judge Owl’s Fables (w)(a) 1943-43; Jughead (w)(a) 1985; Leroy (a)(a) 1984; Li’l Jinx (w)(a) 1946-83; Life with Archie (w) 1985; Mad House (w)(a) 1976-82; Midge (w)(a) 1984-86; Miss Beasley (w)(a) 1986; Miss Grundy (w)(a) 1984-86; Moose (w)(a) 1985; Mort (w)(a) 1978-81; Mr. Lodge (w)(a) 1984; Mr. Sevensen (w)(a) 1984; Mr. Weatherbee (w)(a) 1984-85; Pinky (w)(a) (no date); Pop Tate (w)(a) 1984; Prof. Transistor (w)(a) 1963, 1976; puzzle pages (w)(a) 1976-82; Randy (w)(a) 1975; Reggie (w)(a) 1984; Roz (w)(a) 1979, 1981; Russ (w)(a) 1976, 1980-82; Sabrina (w)(a) 1964; Squoimy the Worm (w)(a) (no date); Super Duck (w)(a) 1960; Tales Calculated to Drive You Bats (w)(a) 1962; Wilbur (w)(a) 1951-56 Dell/Western Publications: cartoon/funny animals (w)(a) c. 1941 Eastern Color Printing: Friendly Fox (w)(a) 1943; Victor, Vegetarian Vulture (w)(a) 1940

COMIC BOOK CREDITS (Mainstream US Publishers): Archie Comic Publications, Inc./MLJ: activities pages (w)(a) 1964; Ali Baba (w)(a) 1964; Alice (w)(a) 1964; Archie (w)(p)(i) 1943-89; Archie and Me (w)(a) 1966-71, 1976-80; Archie’s Madhouse (w)(a) 1961-67; Archie’s TV Laugh-Out (p)(i) c. 1984; Betty (w)(a) 1986; Bumbie

The Jinx Are On The House A volatile “Li’l Jinx” splash page by Joe Edwards from Pep Comics #63 (Sept. 1947). Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher. [©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Marvel/Timely Comics: cartoon/funny animals (w)(a) 1941; Heathcliff (w) 1985, 1987 (for imprint Star)

57

W

hat if, instead of selling his share of All-American Publications to DC co-publishers Harry Donenfeld and Jack Liebowitz in 1945, as happened in the Real World, Max Charles Gaines had instead bought DC Comics from them?

Just imagine…a comic book industry in which (due to threatened lawsuits by Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, and Bob Kane, which resulted in there briefly being two competing versions of “Superman” and “Batman” titles on the newsstands in the late ’40s with both versions eventually

being cancelled) the characters Green Lantern, The Flash, and Wonder Woman had instead become the surviving Golden Age heroes—stars of comic books, radio, movies, and TV! (Even so, in our world, all art on the next page features characters trademarked and copyrighted by DC Comics.)

Not a dream (precisely)… not a hoax (exactly)…just an Imaginary Tale of an alternative universe and of…

The Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.

by Bob Rozakis

Book One – Chapter 6: “We Should Form A Club Or Society…”

[NOTE: The material in this chapter appeared in somewhat different form in Dynamic World of AA Comics #3, as part of “Strange Schwartz Stories,” written by Bob Rozakis and Ted Skimmer.]

W

ith the success of the new Superman, DC editor Julie Schwartz was given the go-ahead to revive another Golden Age character.

It was not much of a surprise when he decided that the second member of AA’s Silver Age roster would be a new incarnation of Batman.

“I never paid much attention to the original version of the character,” Julie said in a conversation about the revival. “He was just an ordinary man who went swinging around the city beating up criminals.

He had his batrope and a few things in his utility belt, but that was it.”

In the early discussions with writer John Broome, Schwartz emphasized his desire to give their new Batman a greater element of science-fiction. “I’ve always been a science-fiction man, so I wanted our new version to be able to have outer space adventures.” When Broome suggested they play up the utility belt and that Batman could pull just about anything he could think up out of it, Julie said, “That’s too magical.”

“Not if it is able to access a cosmic energy source via black hole technology,” countered Broome. “The things Batman thinks up aren’t really in the belt. He’s able to tap this cosmic energy and form that into what he needs by his own willpower.” When Schwartz demanded that Batman had to have some kind

Batting Around The Order Julius Schwartz (editor, top) and John Broome (writer) flank the Gil Kanepenciled cover of Showcase #22 (Oct. 1959), which introduced AA’s more science-fictional Batman to a new generation—a “New Look” version, as it were.

Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, from the collection of Shane Foley.

Photos courtesy of the Julius Schwartz Collection (with special thanks to Bob Greenberger) & Don Ensign.

58

The Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.

of weakness, Broome came up with the time limit that the creations could exist. “After six minutes, the energy dissipates,” said Broome. “So if Batman ties up a criminal with his batrope, he better find something else to use, or the guy is going to be free in a few minutes.”

When asked how they came up with the six-minute deadline, Julie said, “360 seconds! We were going to make it ten minutes at first. Then we started talking about the Batman Corps and how they were divided among 3600 space sectors and got into the multiples-of-60 business. At first, it was going to be 3600 seconds, but that was an hour and it seemed too long. So we went for 360 seconds instead.”

Batman was given a three-issue slot in Showcase, beginning with #22, which came out in the summer of 1959. In the opening six-page story, “SOS Batman,” test pilot Hal Jordan is introduced. While flying in a new experimental jet for Ferris Aircraft, he spots an unidentified flying object streaking across the desert sky. He gives chase and sees the UFO crash.

The resultant explosion damages Hal’s own craft, forcing him to eject. As he parachutes to the desert floor, he is lassoed and pulled to the site of the UFO crash. There he finds a dying Abin Sur, who explains that he is a member of the Batman Corps and that Hal has been chosen as his successor.

With his final breaths, Abin Sur explains about his utility belt, that anything Hal needs can be pulled from it if he only thinks of it. Hal takes the belt, but before he can ask any more questions, Abin Sur dies. After burying him, he begins a trek across the desert and back to civilization,

Sidebar Excerpted from the “Batman’s Mail Chute” letters page in Batman #3: Dear Editor: I have been reading AA Comics since the 1940s and am a big fan of your super-heroes, particularly your revivals of Superman and Batman.

One thing about the new Batman puzzles me, however. The original character was inspired to adopt his identity after a bat flew in his window.

What prompted the Guardians of the Universe to choose this look?

Roy Thomas Jackson, Missouri (That’s an excellent question, Roy, and one we hope to address in an upcoming issue. Meantime, we will ask your fellow readers for their own ideas and print the best ones in these pages. – Ed.) Excerpted from the “Batman’s Mail Chute” letters page in Batman #6: Dear Editor: In Batman #3, reader Roy Thomas asked what prompted the Guardians of the Universe to choose a bat-design for their warriors. I suggest that this was not the case at all; their resemblance to an earthly bat is merely a coincidence. The heroes draw all their power and weapons from their utility belts and so the Guardians referred to them as the “wielders of the belt” or Beltmen!

When Hal Jordan met the dying Abin Sur, he misunderstood the word and, subconsciously recognizing bat-like images of the uniform, thought it was “Batman.”

E. Nelson Bridwell Oklahoma City, Okla.

(We could not have come up with a better explanation ourselves, Nelson.

Consider this the official story… and the reason that you are not holding issue #6 of Beltman! – Ed.)

Sketch As Sketch Can An unknown artist’s concept sketch of the 1959 Batman, submitted by owner/collector Alex Saviuk, who these days pencils the Spider-Man newspaper Sunday strip and inks the daily—juxtaposed with a couple of sample logos of the day, from the collection of Shane Foley.

“We Should Form A Club Or Society...”

59

The Scales of Justice Since the 1960 cover of The Brave and the Bold #28, the first JLA cover, has been reprinted so often, we thought we’d show instead a couple of later covers of Justice League of America itself, along with the above photo of writer Gardner Fox, courtesy of his daughter, Lynda Fox Cohen: (Right:) The cover of JLA #10 (March 1962) featured the roll you could count on nine fingers—in this case, “The Fantastic Fingers of Felix Faust!” The dynamic digits, of course, belong to Hawkman, Wonder Woman, Superman, Flash, Wildcat, Snapper Carr, Green Lantern, Batman, and Atom. Larry Guidry & Shane Foley had to pool their resources a while back to purchase this piece of original art on eBay; it now divides its time between New Orleans and Australia.

(Below:) The cover of JLA #41 (Dec. 1965); thanks to Larry Guidry for this scan of his pristine copy. Alex Wright has even identified the colorist as Justin Arthur.

deciding that he cannot tell anyone what has happened. “Who’ll employ a pilot who crashes jets while chasing UFOs?” he muses.

Batman won his way into his own magazine much more quickly than Superman had. Even before Batman #1 appeared, however, the character became a major player in Schwartz’s next revival. The editor reconstituted the Justice Society as the “Justice League of America” in Brave & Bold #28 and cast his new Superman and Batman as charter members, along with The Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Hawkman, and The Atom.

Fellow DC editor Mort Weisinger quickly exercised his control over all things Green Lantern, citing potential over-saturation, and insisted that the Emerald Warrior not be featured prominently on the JLA covers and that he play only a minor role in the stories. Editor Jack Schiff demanded the same treatment for The Flash, quite possibly at Weisinger’s urging. Despite the limited roles that AA’s two top-selling heroes played (and their absence from most covers), the JLA was an immediate hit, following their three-issue B&B stint with their own title four months later.

Asked some years later how he felt about having his use of Green Lantern and Flash in the JLA restricted, Schwartz pointed out that the same thing had happened twenty years earlier with the Justice Society. “When Flash and GL got their own books, they became ‘honorary members’ of the JSA. It wasn’t until after we split from DC that they came back into action.”

Weisinger’s claim about overexposure of Green Lantern probably had some validity; AA was milking the character pretty well back then. However, Schwartz had some other thoughts on the matter. “It was Mort’s ego more than anything else. Suppose Justice League became a big hit with Green Lantern on the cover. Well, then, I would have had a better-selling GL book than he did!”

60

The Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.

In The Air And Below The Sea Showcase #30 gave Hawkman his own mag, while Aquaman got a solo spin beginning in The Brave and the Bold #34. Repro’d from a copy of Showcase #30 owned by Larry Guidry & Shane Foley, and a cover scan from the collection of Alex Wright.

Schwartz was able to get mileage out of the line’s two super-stars even if he couldn’t use them very much in the book. A full-page house ad for each issue of Brave & Bold, as well as the debut of the regular title, had Flash and Green Lantern listed as members in the same bold lettering as the other five heroes. “I didn’t think Mort ever looked at anybody else’s house ads,” Schwartz said with a laugh, “and this pretty much confirmed it.”

For the record, Flash and Green Lantern do appear on the cover of JLA #1, but only as tiny chess pieces as Superman and Despero play against one another. They appear as tiny figures in the background on the cover of #5 and again among “The Fantastic Fingers of Felix Faust” on the cover of #10. Otherwise, the uninformed reader would be hard-pressed to find evidence that they were actually members of the team. In fact, GL does not appear prominently on a cover until #25, with The Flash following in #26. After that, both characters began to appear regularly on the covers and in the stories.

The Justice League gained its eighth member in issue #4, when Wildcat joined. Though the character had had his own back-up feature in Sensation Comics since the 1940s, Schwartz did not include him on the new team’s roster. “There were a lot of letters asking why Wildcat, who had been a member of the Justice Society, was not in the JLA. Gardner [Fox] and I just forgot about him.” Despite his late arrival to the group,

Ted Grant’s boxing abilities proved vital to rescuing the JLAers in the story “Doom in the Diamond Ring.” He quickly became a mainstay of the team, despite his lack of actual super-powers.

The team also had an “unofficial” member, teenager Snapper Carr, modeled on the character “Kookie” (portrayed by Edd Byrnes) on the popular TV series 77 Sunset Strip. Snapper was introduced in the first Brave & Bold issue and played a role in many of the early stories.

Whether the JLA needed a “teenage sidekick” was debatable, but Schwartz pointed out that “nobody wrote in saying they hated the character, so Gardner kept using him.”

It was quickly becoming clear that the super-heroes were enjoying a new burst of popularity, and Schwartz was not the only DC editor to notice. When his turn at Showcase came up with #30, Murray Boltinoff appropriated Hawkman from the back pages of Flash Comics and gave him a four-issue spin, co-starring Hawklad. The younger hero had been introduced some months earlier and had all but replaced Hawkgirl as the Winged Wonder’s regular comrade-in-wings. “Girl heroes, Wonder Woman and Girl Lantern notwithstanding, were just not as popular among the readers as boy sidekicks,” Boltinoff said. “Our audience was mostly boys and they wanted to feel that they could be chums with the adult heroes.”

Meantime, Schwartz continued his series of revivals, selecting

“We Should Form A Club Or Society...”

Aquaman next for a tryout in Brave & Bold. There has been much speculation over the years about this choice. The original Aquaman (along with Green Arrow and Johnny Quick) was created for DC’s More Fun Comics

by Mort Weisinger. On a number of occasions over the years, interviewers asked Schwartz if he chose to revamp Aquaman to tweak his friend after Weisinger balked at having Green Lantern play a large role in the Justice League. Schwartz would smile and reply, “I didn’t know at the time that Mort had anything to do with the character. It was in a DC book and I was working at AA.” As with the revivals of Superman and Batman, virtually everything about the original Aquaman was changed… except for his secret identity.

For some reason, Julie’s new incarnation was also named Arthur Curry.

“Well, that’s not 100% true,” he insisted in an interview. “My Aquaman was really Artur Kurri from the planet Thanagar. He changed it to Arthur Curry when he moved to Earth.”

Writer Gardner Fox was chosen to script the new series (with Joe Kubert art), and the new King of the Seas was given an other-worldly origin. Artur Kurri and his wife Mera hailed from the planet Thanagar, a world totally covered with water, but also one in which crime had been eradicated generations earlier. This paradise was shattered, however, when the Man-Sharks, raiders from a nearby planet, began stealing scientific devices and works of art. Armed with replicas of ancient Thanagarian weapons, Artur led a team of Thanagarians, including Mera, against the Man-Sharks and successfully drove them from his world.

61

behind some of the other characters we’d done. So Bill Gaines said to give him three more issues and see what happened.” As it turned out, after the second three-issue run in B&B, Aquaman moved into Mystery in Space for four issues before finally getting his own title in early 1964.

Green Arrow also joined the Justice League much sooner than the Wizard of Water, gaining membership in JLA #14’s “Menace of the Arrow-Bomb.” It was not until #31 that Aquaman became a member of the team in “Riddle of the Runaway River.”

With the successful reinventions of Superman, Batman, Green Arrow, and Aquaman, along with a revival of the super-team concept with the Justice League, Julie Schwartz established the path that the comics industry would follow.

The oft-told story about Timely publisher Martin Goodman at a poker game with Max Gaines has been accepted as a part of comic book history, having been repeated by a diverse group of people at both AA Comics and Marvel. Though details vary depending on whose version you hear, Goodman and Gaines were playing cards with a group of publishing

The arrival of the Man-Sharks, however, resulted in a change in some Thanagarians’ thinking. A few began stealing things for personal gain, others for the sheer thrill of it. Artur’s team, briefly disbanded, was forced back into action, now wearing uniforms that designated them as members of the Aquamen. When a Thanagarian criminal named Byth fled the planet and began a crime spree on Earth, Artur and Mera followed. They were befriended by Coast Guard Commander George Emmett, whose own task force was working in vain to capture Byth. With the help of Aquaman and Aquagirl, the Thanagarian criminal was apprehended and returned to his home world. Though their mission was complete, Artur and Mera decided to return to Earth to study its law enforcement methods. With the aid of Emmett, they established identities as Arthur and Myra Curry and became co-directors of the Coast City Aquarium.

While awaiting sales figures for the Aquaman issues of Brave & Bold, Schwartz and Fox moved over to Showcase, where they followed Boltinoff ’s Hawkman tryout with a new take on Green Arrow. This time, all that remained of the original character was the name. “The first Green Arrow was nothing more than a current-day version of Robin Hood, a regular man fighting crime with a quiver full of arrows,” said Schwartz. “If the readers wanted that, we would still have been publishing Robin Hood!”

Instead, the new GA was a scientist, Ray Palmer, whose studies of stellar energy led to the discovery of a glowing green meteor.

Unbeknownst to Ray, while he was studying the meteor, his body was absorbing energy from it. Not long thereafter, Ray and some fellow students are trapped by a cave-in during a spelunking expedition. He finds an escape route, but it is far too narrow for him to fit through.

Suddenly, fueled by stress, his body is transformed into stellar energy and he zooms up and out of the ground “like a green arrow shooting across the sky.” Amazed by his newfound power, Ray designs a costume that enables him to control the energy and begins his career as Green Arrow.

“Supermen Of Two Worlds”?

Of the two revisited Weisinger characters, Green Arrow proved the more popular, based on the sales of their tryout runs. The Emerald Energizer debuted in his own title in early 1962, the same month that Aquaman began a second three-issue stay in Brave & Bold. “The sales of the first Aquaman run were pretty good,” said Schwartz, “but they lagged

Found in Julie Schwartz’ files was a folder of unused cover sketches from the 1960s—including the above one suggesting a team-up of the new Superman with the original version of the character. Perhaps it was done with an eye toward AA retaining its copyright and trademark rights in the original character… or perhaps it was merely the flight of whimsy of an unidentified artist, who was clearly influenced by the work of Carmine Infantino. At any rate, the pencil sketch wound up in the collection of Larry Guidry, lucky guy!

62

The Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.

Green Arrow Sees The Light The cover of Showcase #34, the second Green Arrow cover, showed the Verdant Velocitor trapped by his foe Dr. Light. From the shared collection of Larry Guidry & Shane Foley.

world friends and Gaines was boasting about the sales of the Justice League book. Goodman, who had made his money in the business by following the trends, went back to his office and said to his editor, Stan Lee, “AA is making a ton of bucks with a team of super-heroes. We need a book like that.” Stan came up with The Fantastic Four, got Jack Kirby to draw it, and Marvel Comics was born.

Julie Schwartz, by the way, loved to hear that story told, especially when he was on a panel at a convention. He would wait patiently as someone recounted it and would then say, “Well, I have been given credit for starting the Silver Age of Comics at AA. And my Justice League is responsible for Stan coming up with Fantastic Four. So I should get the credit for the creation of Marvel Comics, too!”

Though it is unlikely that Stan Lee would agree with Julie’s analysis, there was no question that interest in super-hero comic books had been reignited in the early 1960s. By early 1964, both companies were churning out tales of costume-clad adventurers in greater and greater numbers for a steadilygrowing audience. Julie’s ability to breathe new life into old characters did not go unnoticed by his bosses, either. And it did not take them long to make a decision that would have repercussions not only in the comics book industry but in the world of television, as well.

Next: POW! BAM! ZAP!

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63

[Covers ©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

64

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Are They Kidding?!

by Michael T. Gilbert

When Not Drawing Comics, Al’s The Brains Behind The Dreaded Purple Gang!

Artist Sam Gilman (or whoever wrote the above panel) was having fun with cartoonist Al Avison. Avison was a Timely Comics mainstay, drawing “Captain America” (above right) and other high-profile strips. Hmm! A cartoonist smart enough to lead a gang of master crooks? Ha!

Are They Kidding?!

The Real Origins Of The Marvel Universe!

Do those names mentioned in a 1952 issue of Atlas’ Man Comics (see Gene Colan art, t left) sound a little familiar? Fans of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Sol Brodsky think so!

Or how about the ones on Sgt. Snorkle’s list (bottom left)? Mort Walker (or someone!) may have been a fan of Al Williamson and Wally Wood! That pic’s from the second Beetle Bailey comic (Dec. 1953)––three years after the strip’s debut on Sept. 4, 1950—and during the heyday of EC! And the panel below from Dell/Western’s Tarzan comic book (drawn by Jesse Marsh, and written by Gaylord Dubois) gives a nod to newspaper Tarzan artists supreme Hal Foster and Burne Hogarth. But what’s with the Prince Valiant haircut? Sheesh!

Are They Kidding?!

Are They Kidding?

65

Me Azan, You…?

(Right:) I’m sure you’ve all heard of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes. But have you ever had the pleasure of meeting Azan the Ape Man? I suspect he was also known as Azan––King of the Rip-offs!

No doubt this cheap British knockoff had a few kiddies wailing…

Are They Kidding?!

(Below:) And let’s not forget the fairer sex! When the editors of Rewl’s Blazing Comics tried to come up with an original name for their female Tarzan, they promptly gave up. Instead they just named their jungle gal … “Jun-Gal, Queen of the Jungle”! Yawn! Of course Holyoke Publishing didn’t do much better, christening their Sparkling Stars jungle guy “Jungol”! Tarzan creator Edgar Rice Burroughs must’ve rolled his eyes and muttered…

Are They Kidding?!

Art on previous page (clockwise from top left:) “Iron Skull” from Centaur’s Amazing Man #16 (Oct. 1940). [©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

Art on this page: Tarzan and the Golden Lion cover art ©2009 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.

Captain America #12 (March 1942). [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Azan art ©2009 Curtis Books or successors in interest.

Tarzan #13 (Jan. 1950). [©2009 Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

Jun-Gal from Blazing Comics #3 (Sept. 1944) ©2009 Rewl Publications or successors in interest.

“Beetle Bailey” from Dell Four Color #521 (Dec. 1953). [©2009 King Features Syndicate, Inc.] Man Comics #21 (Dec. 1952). [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Jungol from Sparkling Stars #23 (May 1947) ©2009 Holyoke Pubs. or successors in interest.

66

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Somehow The Idea Never Caught On...

When the Comics Code began in the mid-‘50s, Harvey was forced to shut down their lucrative line of horror comics and focus on more kid-friendly fare. They quickly discovered that good things come in small packages.

Soon, a zillion comics with “Little” in the title were flooding the market!

Kids could choose from Little Lotta, Little Dot, Richie Rich (The Poor Little Rich Boy), Little Audrey, Li’l Taffy, and even Little Max! But in 1947, long before most of the others made the scene, Harvey came up a gem called “Little Hobo.” This charming strip appeared in Nutty Comics #7––and promptly died! Funny, you’d think the kids would love adventures of Little Hobo bumming cigarettes. Or Little Hobo using Sterno to keep from freezing to death. But Noooo! I guess the kiddies just took one look at Little Hobo and said...

Are They Kidding?!

Art from Little Max #3 (Feb. 1950), Little Lotta #21, Little Dot #17, “Little Hobo” from Nutty Comics #7 (1947), and an issue of Dotty Dripple.

[Art ©2009 the respective copyright holders.]

Are They Kidding?

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Will The Real Great Steranko Please Stand Up? Most fans know that Jim Steranko performed as a magician before becoming an internationally acclaimed comic book legend. After briefly assisting Vince Colletta in the late ’50s, Steranko’s first real break in comics came in 1965, when Joe Simon hired him to design heroes for Harvey’s short-lived Harvey Thrillers action line. Jim came up with “Spyman” and “The Gladiator” (though he never drew the actual stories). His own experiences also inspired him to create a magical super-hero, “Magicmaster”—as per the Jack Sparling-drawn splash below from Double-Dare #1 (Dec. 1966).

To my knowledge, it was the only time that Steranko worked for Harvey Comics––at least in an official capacity.

But did you know that Jim once appeared in a Harvey comic, co-starring with Casper the Friendly Ghost, no less?

Strange, but true!

“The Wayward Wand!” in Spooky #126 (Sept. 1971, as per panels on right side of page) featured a magician called “The Great Steranko,” whose magic is suddenly working in reverse (rabbits jump into his hat, and so forth!). He thinks he’s all washed up, until Casper clues him into the fact that he’s been holding his wand upside down! Hey, it’s a dumb story, but clearly someone at Harvey remembered the cartoonist and did a little tip of the ol’ top hat. And when Jim saw how Harvey’s artists drew him, I’ll bet he said…

Are They Kidding?!

[Art on this page ©2009 the respective copyright holders. Special thanks to Ronn Sutton, for sending us copies of the story.]

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

(Left:) “John Quincy Atom” from Consolidated’s Key Comics #5 (Aug. 1946).

(Below:) “‘Red’ Skeleton” from Mystic Comics #10 (Aug. 1942). [“John Quincy Atom” ©2009 the respective copyright holders; “’Red’ Skeleton” ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Lowest Of The Low! For those who say puns are the lowest form of humor, these two examples are Exhibit A! On our left we have Marv Lev’s “John Quincy Atom” (an atom-powered quince, no less!). The publishers may have fooled the kiddies into thinking they were reading a biography of our sixth President, John Quincy Adams, but all I can say is...

Are They Kidding?!

And next we have… Uh-oh! Outta room! See you next ish... No Kidding!

Till next time…

And then there’s “’Red’ Skeleton,” a hack writer who plied his trade within Timely’s Mystic Comics. This “Red” is a far cry from legendary comedian and beloved painter of clowns Red Skelton (seen in the photo as his character Clem Kadiddlehopper). Hey, Marvel, couldn’t you even spell his last name correctly?

In this story, Red’s editor, Stan Dee, scolds him: “Who do you think you are... Captain America?” To which Red replies “I’ll write an adventure that’ll even make The Human Torch envious!” To which I say…

Are They Kidding?!

Comic Fandom Archive

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Found! “New” Photos From The 1965 New York Comicon!

(Part 2) More Recently Discovered Pics From The Jerry Bails Collection

by Bill Schelly

T

hree issues ago, as an adjunct to our detailed coverage in Alter Ego #20 of what I like to call “the first full-service comic book convention” ever—namely, David Kaler’s Academy Con of July 31/Aug. 1, 1964, held at the Broadway Central Hotel in New York City— we presented four pages’ worth of mostly long-lost photos which had languished in the collection of the late Jerry G. Bails. Even the founder of

A/E and “the father of comics fandom” had apparently forgotten about them for four decades!

Sadly, Jerry passed away in late 2006. His widow Jean Bails found these photos among his many effects, and they were sent to Roy Thomas and me some months ago. They add immeasurably to the picture of that major fan-historical event, even if in most cases we have no idea who took the pics… and the picture quality varies widely, alas.

This time, we have a few additional photos from the convention floor, most of which have never before seen print—and several from comics fandom’s first costume contest, the so-called “Masquerade”:

An Iron-Fisted Duo Actually, we start with a pic which was first printed in AE #70. On the second day of the con, Roy Thomas (left, in a hot-off-the-presses Avengers T-shirt) and prominent 1960s fan writer/publisher Rick Weingroff flank Green Lantern & The Atom artist Gil Kane, who is no doubt holding forth on the future potential of the comics medium. This conversation probably took place right after a panel in which all three had participated. At that time Roy had been in the field slightly over a month—and had jumped ship from DC to Marvel only two or three weeks before.

Though Roy and Gil were destined to often collaborate at Marvel beginning with 1969’s Captain Marvel #17 and had been good friends for three decades by the time of the artist’s untimely passing in 2000, this is the only known photograph ever taken of the two of them together. At right is a penciled figure by Gil of his and Roy’s co-creation Iron Fist, from Marvel Premiere #15 (May 1974); with thanks to Carl Taylor. [Art ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.] A conversation at this comiccon between Gil and sf/comics fan John Benson eventually led to the ground-breaking Kane interview printed in Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #10, which is currently on view in TwoMorrows’ 10th-anniversary edition of the 1995 history Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine, co-edited by Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly.

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No FaceBook In 1965 This second fuzzy snapshot of Roy (in F.F. T-shirt this time) likewise failed to make the cut in #80. Here, A/E’s rascally past-and-future editor and an unidentified fan appear to be discussing either a poster—maybe one for the 1941 Adventures of Captain Marvel serial which was shown at the con—or it could’ve been Biljo White’s Marvel Family cover done for Alter Ego (Vol. 1) #7, which was also on display there. Roy, when asked recently to ID the person he’s talking to here, said the face looked maddeningly familiar, but he just couldn’t place it. Any help out there?

And Now—

Let The Masquerade Begin!

A Marvel Of A “Family” A terrific “triptych” of con organizer David Kaler (as Dr. Strange), Guest of Honor Otto O. Binder (seated), and Carole Seuling (as Mary Marvel) posing with a piece of original Andru & Esposito Metal Men artwork.

Carole was then the wife of comics dealer (and Brooklyn high school English teacher) Phil Seuling, who four years later would begin hosting New York cons with her help. A 1965 photo of Carole and Phil as Mary and Captain Marvel alongside 1940s-50s Captain Marvel/Marvel Family scribe Binder was one of the relatively few pics from that con which appeared in A/E #20, the issue which celebrated the 1965 New York Comics Convention. In the early 1970s Carole would script Shanna the She-Devil for Marvel Comics.

Around the time of this con, Dave became the scripter of Charlton’s Captain Atom, and wrote a number of other comics features as well over the next year or two.

Bill Schelly feels that this photo of Binder, who’d written the two stories that introduced Mary Marvel into Fawcett’s comics in 1942, is one of the best images ever captured of that important Golden/Silver Age comic book writer. Otto was later the subject of Bill Schelly’s biographical work Words of Wonder: The Life and Times of Otto Binder, from Hamster Press, now out of print.

Found! “New” Photos From The 1965 New York Comicon! (Part 2)

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Strange Interludes Two posed shots of Kaler as Marvel’s Master of the Mystic Arts, with appropriate gestures. Indeed, it took an almost sorcerous ability for Dave to conjure up this comicon with little of the promised assistance from other members of the Academy of Comic Book Fans and Collectors. He did, however, have a small army of energetic helpers in the New York City area, including the aforementioned Mark Hanerfeld, as well as Marv Wolfman, Phil Seuling, and others.

What? He Couldn’t Have Come As Lawrence Talbot?

Speaking of Marv Wolfman, who in 1975-77 would be Marvel’s editor-inchief and is renowned especially for his scripting of Tomb of Dracula at Marvel and The New Teen Titans at DC—here he is in his famous costume as the American Comics Group’s Herbie the Fat Fury.

And, as impressive as Marv looks, we encourage you to train your eagle eyes as well on the folks in the background. You’ll be able to make out not only Phil Seuling (as Captain Marvel), but also Dr. Mid-Nite, The Shadow, the Silver Age Green Lantern (seen better in the next pic), and Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD—and no, that isn’t Jim Steranko, though Jim was at this con, as a dealer, just as he was launching his meteoric pro career. The real names of those in most of the costumes, alas, are unknown.

“The Flash Didn’t Go Off” That’s what they always used to say when a camera’s flash bulb didn’t illuminate a scene (and blind your eyes), isn’t it? In this case, an unidentified young fan faced the camera as the Golden Age Flash at the 1965 masquerade. Isn’t that John Benson (a year before he would throw his own one and only comicon) sitting at the table behind the Fastest Fan Alive?

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Comic Fandom Archive

Batting Around We don’t know who played this pint-sized version of the Caped Crusader, or even what gender may lurk behind this cape and cowl. But, as this photo was sent along with the rest of this “new slew” from Jean Bails, we presume the image came from this same New York comicon. If so, at this time, the circle around the bat on the costume’s shirt was only one year old—and really was a “New Look”!

Remember, this is several months before Batman became an overnight phenomenon on TV!

Whatever A Spider Can Let’s also welcome to the party one Friendly Neighborhood WebSpinner, in a pretty darn good costume! In fact, we think the costumes on the whole at this con were of high quality, the more so given the fact that this was the very first comicon masquerade or “costume contest.” At this time, of course, Spidey was only three years old as a comic book hero!

Plas Had Class In further support of our contention that the costumes were generally of high quality, Bill Schelly offers for your consideration: Roy Thomas as Plastic Man, modeling a costume sewn by his Aunt Olivia back in Jackson, Missouri, a few weeks earlier. Until Jean Bails passed along this photo, Roy had assumed for more than four decades that this immortal moment was lost forever in the mists of time; he’s still not sure that might not have been for the best... though not because of the costume!

The Women Of Marvel?

Carole Seuling as Mary Marvel, of course—an unknown femme-fan as a nursing character (maybe Timely/Marvel’s Nellie the Nurse or first Linda Carter—it’s way too early for Night Nurse!)—and Margaret Gemignani as Timely/Marvel’s Golden Age heroine Miss America. Margaret (a.k.a. Meg) was one of the very few young women active in the fanzines of the day. We haven’t heard anything of her in years, but hope she’s still enjoying herself as much as everybody seemed to be doing that day in 1965!

Note that the “V” neck of the costume is actually skin-colored cloth with lines on it that suggest Plas’ stitching, and that RT simply wore dark glasses, having been too busy with his new job as a writer and editorial assistant at Marvel to pick up any true goggles to enhance the look—though he did manage to darken his blond locks a bit.

More rare fan-photos from Jerry Bails’ private collection will appear in near-future editions of the Comic Fandom Archive, courtesy of Jean Bails.

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In Memoriam

Dave(1955-2008) Stevens “They Were Rarely Just Jobs To Dave”

by Mark Evanier

I

llustrator Dave Stevens, best known for his “good girl” art and The Rocketeer, died on March 11, 2008, following a long, wrenching battle with Leukemia. Dave was born July 29, 1955, in Lynwood, California. He was raised in Portland, Oregon; his family then relocated to San Diego, where he attended San Diego City College and became involved in the early days of the San Diego Comic Book Convention, now known as Comic-Con International. His skills as an artist were instantly evident to all, and he was encouraged by darn near every professional artist who attended the early cons, but especially by Jack Kirby and Russ Manning. In 1975, when Manning began editing a line of Tarzan comic books to be published in Europe, Dave got his first professional assignment, working on those comics and also assisting Russ with the Tarzan newspaper strip. Soon after, he worked on a few projects for Marvel (including the Star Wars comic book) and a number of underground comics. Later, he also worked with Russ on the Star Wars newspaper strip.

In 1977, Dave went to work for Hanna-Barbera, where he drew storyboards and layouts, many of them for the Super Friends and Godzilla

cartoon shows and bonded with veteran artist Doug Wildey, who produced the latter. Wildey and Stevens became close friends; and in 1982, when Dave created his popular character, The Rocketeer, he modelled the character’s sidekick, Peevy, on photos of Doug. Dave himself was Cliff Secord, who donned the mask of The Rocketeer, and other friends appeared in other guises.

Dave And Friends Dave Stevens and an unidentified young lady—plus one of his many illustrations featuring pin-up queen Bettie Page—plus a 1984 commission drawing of The Rocketeer. Thanks to Jim Korkis. [Art ©2009 Estate of Dave Stevens.]

The Rocketeer made Dave’s reputation and also spawned a resurgence of interest in 1950s figure model Bettie Page, whose likeness Dave used for the strip’s heroine. But the strip was not profitable for Dave, who was among the least prolific talents ever to attempt comic books. It wasn’t so much that he was slow, as his friends joked, but that he was almost obsessively meticulous, doing days of study and sketching to create one panel, and doing many of them over and over. Even then, he was usually dissatisfied with what he produced and fiercely critical of the reproduction. Friends occasionally pitched in to help with the coloring, but some begged off because they knew it was humanly impossible for anyone, including Dave himself, to produce coloring that he’d like. Eventually, he sold most of the rights to Disney for a Rocketeer movie that was produced in 1991. Dave served as a co-producer of the film and did a brief cameo, but the endeavor was not as lucrative for him as he’d hoped, and it pretty much ended Dave’s interest in continuing the character.

Most of what Dave did after that fell into the general category of “glamour art,” including portfolios and private commissions. Many of these were illustrations of Bettie Page who, though once thought deceased, turned out to be alive and living not all that far from Dave.

They met and Dave became her friend and, though he was not wealthy, benefactor. Deciding that too many others had callously exploited her likeness, Dave voluntarily aided Ms. Page financially and even took to helping her in neighborly ways. One time, he told me—and without the slightest hint of resentment—“It’s amazing. After years of fantasizing about this woman, I’m now driving her to cash her Social Security checks.”

Dave was truly one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life...and was certainly among the most gifted. Our first encounter was at Jack Kirby’s house around 1971 when he came to visit and show Jack some of his work. Kirby was very encouraging, and he urged Dave not to try and draw like anyone else but to follow his own passions. This was advice Dave took to heart, which probably explains why he took so long with every drawing. They were rarely just jobs to Dave. Most of the time, what emerged from his drawing board or easel was a deeply personal effort. He was truly in love with every beautiful woman he drew, at least insofar as [Stevens continued at bottom of next page]

In Memoriam

75

Jerry Serpe (?-2008)

“[His Work] Was Always Good”

by Mark Evanier

J

erry Serpe, who may hold some record for the most comic books colored, died in March 2008 in Florida. Serpe was a longtime employee of DC Comics, dating from the mid-1940s. Before that, he worked for a company called Photochrome that handled coloring and color separation work on many of DC’s publications, and when Photochrome went out of business, he and a man named Jack Adler moved over to work for DC.

Serpe colored thousands of comic books—issues of everything the company published during his tenure—and also did extensive production work, including art corrections and touch-ups. Few knew his name, but every DC reader saw his handiwork, and he even occasionally did a bit of artwork for public service or filler pages that ran in the company’s books.

For an extended period through the ’50s and ’60s, Adler was primarily in charge of the coloring of covers, while Serpe supervised (and often, did) the coloring of the insides. For much of this time, DC did the color separations for the covers in-house, and Serpe did much of this work, as well.

In the late 1960s, DC stopped doing color seps in-house and scaled back that department. Serpe seized on a fortuitous pension opportunity to leave the company. Thereafter, he ran an outside printing business and occasionally freelanced for DC. Eventually, he sold his interest in the printing company and began doing more freelance coloring, but during the ’80s, with so many new colorists entering the business, the available work declined.

Around that time, I was doing Blackhawk for DC with artist Dan Spiegle, and we had to pick a new colorist for the book. Several young and talented folks were suggested and even recommended, but Dan was not always happy with the current trends in comic book coloring. I suggested he look through his pile of recent printed comics and see which coloring his work had received that pleased him. He did, deciding that a certain Sgt. Rock Annual had been tinted to his liking. It ran with no coloring credit, so I called up Bob Rozakis, who was then in charge of DC’s coloring department, and told him, “Look that one up. Whoever colored it... that’s the person we want.” Bob checked the files and was delighted to find it was not one of the new kids but an old pro—Jerry Serpe, who wasn’t doing much for the company by then.

[Stevens continued from preceding page]

A Colorful Character Sadly, a photo of the late Jerry Serpe was unavailable at presstime. And of course Alter Ego is a black-&-white magazine; still, color can be seen in the online digital edition. Because Mark Evanier specifically mentioned his Blackhawk coloring, here’s the splash page of #271 (July 1984) of that magazine. Serpe’s credit, along with those of Mark as writer and Dan Spiegle as artist, appeared on p. 2. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Jerry colored the remaining issues of Blackhawk and did a fine job.

When he got the gig, he called me up to say thanks. He was especially pleased that he’d won a “blind taste test” and been hired on nothing more than the merits of his work. And why not? It was always good.

Mark Evanier, who first printed this piece (and that on Dave Stevens) in slightly different form on his www.newsfromme.com website, wishes to thank DC president and publisher Paul Levitz for some of the information in the above piece.

the paper versions were concerned. (Dave was married once... for six months to the prolific movie actress, Brinke Stevens, and she retained his last name after they divorced.)

noticed that his output had declined. His main efforts went towards an Art of Dave Stevens book he was struggling to assemble. Mostly though that evening, we talked about comics and comic artists. Dave was a fan in the very best sense.

Dave’s illness these last few years was a poorly-kept secret among his friends, but he insisted that it be kept quiet, and struggled to make occasional public appearances. We tried to get together for dinner every month or so but it wound up being more like every six months. The last time, he joked that it was lucky he had such a reputation for slow production. Now that he was unable to work for weeks at a time, no one

I don’t really know how to end this and maybe I don’t want to...because it will mean another level of loss regarding one of my closest friends. As long as I can keep writing about him, I feel he’s still with me in some manner. And the thought of losing a great guy like Dave Stevens is just too, too sad. He was truly loved and admired by all who knew him.

re:

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after it came out. But we know from his family that he enjoyed it and was gratified by fans’ enthusiasm for his work.

Next, here’s part of a long missive from Mike Tiefenbacher—yep, the selfsame soul who provided so many of the art scans for our MLJ and Joe Edwards coverage these past two issues. Back in the day, Mike was the longtime co-publisher/editor of The Comic Reader, which for some years was the major source of advance information for most comics aficionados.

Dear Roy, I read Ramona Fradon’s interview in Alter Ego #69 and fell in love with her art (and her personality) all over again. By the way, I doubt he’d even remember the conversation, but I believe I am at least partly responsible for Ramona getting the Plastic Man assignment. One of the last

F

or our second of several sword-and-sorcery issues, Shane Foley made a Barry Smith drawing from Conan the Barbarian #1 the basis of our “maskot” heading. Thanks, SF! [Art ©2009 Shane Foley; Captain Ego TM & ©2009 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly.]

Our multitudinous MLJ ménage last month knocked even this brief letters section back a month, and we’re not in much better shape this time with our comments re A/E #69, but we were determined not to fall any further behind, so let’s get cracking—starting with Dan Tandarich, who had some remarks general and specific to make about our Aquamancentered edition: Dear Roy, Thank you for the issue devoted to Aquaman! For years I have been curious about this character’s early days, and this was the place to find it. I still have one question, though: why isn’t Mort Weisinger listed as co-creator along with Paul Norris on the recent Aquaman book?

Dan Tandarich 225 Park Place, #56 Brooklyn, NY 11238 You’d have to ask DC’s powers-that-be about that one, I’m afraid, Dan. Could it be because Mort W. was already on staff when he scripted that first story—not that that seems an adequate reason to deny him a byline?

Or maybe it’s because (as Paul Norris said) editor Whitney Ellsworth may have given MW some version of the original idea and then assigned him to write it? At any rate, we’re pleased to report that an article by Mort’s daughter is scheduled for an upcoming issue. Mort Weisinger has received plenty of criticism in A/E and elsewhere over the years, so we figured it’s high time we were reminded of his talent, as well!

Our one regret about A/E #69 was that Paul Norris passed away soon

Ramona’s “Shining” Hour Aquaman—Metamorpho—Plastic Man—even Batman and Brenda Starr! Ramona Fradon has drawn some of comics’ greatest heroes, but Ye Editor admits to a special fondness for some of her very earliest work, on “The Shining Knight.”

Here’s the final page from Sir Justin’s exploit in Adventure Comics #166 (July 1951), as provided by Joseph Wise. [©2009 DC Comics.]

re:

times Jerry Sinkovec and I hung around with Paul Levitz during one of the NY Seulingcons (’74 or ’75, probably the latter, since it was well after we bought The Comic Reader from him), we were walking down the street and I brought up the subject of Plastic Man to him (again)….

I had been lobbying for his Earth-One revival in his original persona, and I suggested that Joe Orlando, who was editing Adventure Comics, should try “Plastic Man” as a backup strip—and that Ramona, who’d recently returned to DC, would be the perfect choice for it. I felt that, as a member of the Will Eisner “school” like Jack Cole, her style was both realistic and cartoony at the same time, as well as being lined stylewise to the shape-changing Plas by her work on Metamorpho.

(Incidentally, contrary to her implication in her interview, Ramona actually did six full Metamorpho issues total, counting her two introductory Brave and Bold issues.) Paul appeared to consider it, so I believe my suggestion may have led to her selection—but I’ll probably never know for sure.

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A Very Special Delivery Somehow German artist Andreas Gottschlich always manages to turn up a voluptuous young lady, no matter what the issue’s theme—not that it was difficult to do for a sword-and-sorcery issue! So we hardly mind having a second “re:” heading—even if it comes halfway through the letters section! Thanks, Andreas. [Art ©2009 Andreas Gottschlich; Alter Ego TM & ©2009 Roy & Dann Thomas.]

Don’t know where you got the cover credit for your Showcase #30 caption, but as John Wells said in his excellent Aquaman article, it was penciled by Dick Dillin and inked by Sheldon Moldoff, just as were #31 and #33. Howard Purcell, whom you credited, did a relatively small number of covers during the ’60s, and rarely (if ever) for issues he was not in. Also, in your credits page of Ramona’s work, Romance Trail belongs, of course, under DC, not Marvel, as does that war credit.

I enjoyed the Paul Norris interview very much, as well. I’d certainly never forgotten his involvement with “Yank and Doodle” and “Blue Beetle.” One credit correction here: page 27’s “Johnny Quick” splash for “The Impossible Deliveries” is the work of Ralph Mayo, not Norris.

Marc Swayze’s article about the Fawcett romance comics he did inspired me to seek out some of them on eBay, and I continue to be impressed by his work. The fact that he is not better known (and treasured) among collectors can be traced to the fact that he did not continue drawing comics much after the Fawcett titles were purchased by Charlton, missing out on the second generation’s fans of the ’60s becoming aware of his identity.

Mike Tiefenbacher At least many fans have become aware of him in the past decade or so, Mike, due to FCA and Alter Ego. Thanks for the additional information.

We may be well over a year behind on our letters columns, but we want to print all the corrections we can! We had suspected Mayo might’ve drawn some of that “Johnny Quick” work, but went by the info we were given.

Now for a few words from another professional comics artist, Ye Editor’s old friend (and offtimes A/E cover contributor) Frank Brunner:

Hi Roy, Highlight of latest issue was that old convention review of the [Calvin] Beck Fiasco at the YMCA back in ’67. And yep, I was there, but only on Sunday, and just long enough to hear Buster Crabbe talk and then get him to sign the back cover of witzend #1, which had a portrait of him

by Frazetta. I got Al Williamson to sign the inside, and thanked him for sending me a sketch after I wrote him a fan letter. Ahh, the crazy old days of Castle of Frankenstein, and never complete without Calvin’s mother!!!!

Frank Brunner She was a legend in her own time, Frank—and remains so even today, among those of us who remember her, even vaguely.

A short but sweet comment from a longer letter from Glenn MacKay: Roy, Thanks for A/E #69! Always nice to be surprised by a JSA story. Love your proposal. It’s a shame DC didn’t accept it. Thanks for sharing it.

Glenn MacKay I was glad to receive several favorable comments about that plot, Glenn. I was then, and remain, convinced that that story would’ve been better than what was later produced in its stead. The point, though, was that it should have been my story, not one imposed on me. Not being all that modest, I can only add that, of course, there’s no accounting for taste—mine or others’.

Here’s a bit of info from longtime DC staffer Bob Rozakis, who of course contributes the “Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.” articles which have run in most recent issues:

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[comments, correspondence, & corrections]

Far Too Fleeting A Flash Of Paul Norris Paul Norris contributed the striking Alex Raymond-style cover of King Comics’ Flash Gordon #1 (Sept. 1966). Thanks to Rodrigo Baeza. [©2009 King Features Syndicate, Inc.] Seen above is a group photo Charlie Roberts sent us from Paul’s 93rd birthday party a few years ago. It was thrown by the Southern California Cartoonists Society. Re “notables in the photo,” Charlie tells us: “Seated in foreground left to right: Jim Whiting, Paul Norris, Paul Gringle, and Matt Lorentz. Standing at far right is ‘Archie’ comic book writer George Gladir. (Paul’s wife passed away some years ago, and neither of Paul’s sons was able to attend, as they live out of town.” He says that Paul always added “a touch of class” to any get-together, and “usually had some great stories from his days working in comic books and comic strips. He even designed surrender leaflets to be dropped on Japanese troops in World War II, befriending some of the prisoners in the process. We sure do miss him.” [Photo ©2009 Charlie Roberts.]

Hi Roy—

she had not done it—or any other work for St. John.

Just to clarify some information in the letter in #69 from my old pal (and former fellow Junior Woodchuck) Carl Gafford. While “Peerless” Pat Broderick was the only artist who successfully graduated from Sol Harrison’s Junior Bullpen program, the writer who was chosen at the same time has had a long and successful career. I’m speaking of Martin Pasko, who wrote numerous comics for DC (and others) over the years and more recently held an editorial position in DC’s special projects department. Marty also spent a number of years writing for such TV series as Roseanne and Simon & Simon.

George Hagenauer, regular contributor of art photocopies to A/E, wrote to say that all the original art still exists for Ramona’s early “Aquaman” story from Adventure Comics #170 (Nov. 1951): “I own one page and have seen the splash and two other pages. To my knowledge, it is the only Fradon large-size art that is still in existence. A shame, as she is a wonderful artist. The story probably came from letterer Frank Engli’s estate.

It was split up years ago.”

Also, the credit/blame for naming the younger staff members (Paul Levitz, Gaff, Allan Asherman, et al.) falls on my shoulders. One afternoon, Sol wanted to have a meeting to discuss The Amazing World of DC Comics [magazine] and told me to gather everyone. So I went down the hall and told each of my compatriots that we were needed for a Junior Woodchucks meeting. And the name stuck.

Bob Rozakis Happily, Bob, that isn’t your only claim to fame.

A few quick quotes: Ken Quattro, who authored the coverage of St. John Publishing back in A/E #77, apologized to Michael T. Gilbert for perhaps giving him a piece of inaccurate info. He contacted Ramona Fradon about the page from “Lucy the Real Gone Gal” that he had earlier sent to MTG, and she repeated that

And Mark Lewis, also an offtimes contributor to FCA, e-mailed to P.C. Hamerlinck that he loves just about anything that fellow artist Bill Fugate does, as per #69, and that “Marc Swayze’s thoughts on panel-to-panel timing and other storytelling devices were interesting, as always. And the final ‘Cities Tour’ article was also fun.”

Whew! Squeezed everything in—just barely! If we overlooked any corrections sent re #69, please fill us in—it’s hard keeping all those e-mails and letters straight for so long. Still, we love getting them at: Roy Thomas 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135

e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com fax: (803) 826-6501

And remember—next issue, it’s back to the Silver Age and Steve Skeates, who scripted for DC, Marvel, and others during that exciting era!

Shazam! heroes TM & ©2009 DC Comics.

SPECIAL “BETTER LATE THAN NEVER” CHRISTMAS ISSUE!

COMICS’ GOLDEN AGE LIVES AGAIN! SPY SMASHER BLACK TERROR • AVENGER PHANTOM LADY • CAT-MAN DAREDEVIL • CRIMEBUSTER CAPTAIN FLASH MR. SCARLET • MINUTE MAN SKYMAN • STUNTMAN THE OWL • BULLETMAN COMMANDO YANK PYROMAN • GREEN LAMA THE EAGLE • IBIS

Art ©2009 AC Comics.

The above is just a partial list of characters that have appeared in AC Comics’ reprint titles such as MEN OF MYSTERY, GOLDEN AGE GREATS, and AMERICA’S GREATEST COMICS. Virtually all issues published to date are available at $6.95 each. To find over 100 quality Golden Age reprints, go to the AC Comics website at <accomics.com>.

AC COMICS Box 521216 Longwood FL 32752 Please add $1.50 postage & handling per order.

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But something was wrong. It was Mary Marvel. She looked familiar … but different. Where had I seen her like this before?

It was on the cover of the preceding issue, Captain Marvel Adventures #18. There she stood, with Captain Marvel on one side, Junior on the other, professionally rendered in beautiful, continuous tone, full color, opaque acrylics … but somehow reminding one of a film actress in a dentifrice ad, her head too big, her knees too low!

By [Art & logo ©2009 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2009 DC Comics]

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and stories for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been a vital part of FCA since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue, Marc spoke of comic book action in “Captain Marvel term.” In this installment, Marc discusses the Yuletide cover he drew for Captain Marvel Adventures #19.

—P.C. Hamerlinck.]

I

t was a query heard more than once before: “Did you do the artwork for this?” Being held up for my attention was a photocopied inner page from an issue of Captain Marvel Adventures #49 or 50, or thereabouts, circa 1946.

Then … after my nod in the affirmative … “How can you tell it’s your work?”

It was easy. For one thing, it bore the faces of three people I knew …

Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, and … hey! … what happened to Santa Claus?!! This art was prepared originally for a 1942 Christmas cover … and riding atop our super-hero had been none other than jolly old Saint Nick, himself … with a big bag of toys!

It still looked like my artwork, though … even with Santa gone. So evident were little tell-tale clues like the metallic glint on Captain Marvel’s cuffs, obviously rendered with a favorite pen … and the particular twist of the cordage at the collar of his cape.

The Missing Nick “Where is Santa Claus?” queried Swayze upon reviewing the above Fawcett house ad for Mary Marvel’s upcoming solo comic book. The art, prepared originally for a Christmas issue of Captain Marvel Adventures (#19), had included “jolly old Saint Nick himself!” But Marc realized the Mary Marvel face and figure had been subtly altered. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Two Mary Marvels, then? The one I drew, and this … this other girl? That same question may possibly have been experienced elsewhere … maybe even in the offices “upstairs.” That would account for the next cover assignment having come to my table, where Mary’s graphic image had been originated.

There was a practice that may have been in vogue at the time, of “recreating” comic book covers. I never got into that. The page in question may have been of that category … skillfully duplicated, but still, a copy … not an original. The puzzle prompted a peek at the ancient magazine for which the initial art had been prepared, Captain Marvel Adventures #19.

“Largest Circulation of Any Comic Magazine,” went the Fawcett declaration of supremacy among Golden Age publishers. “On Sale Every Third Friday!” it continued in the promotional blurb on the cover.

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The span of years made no difference … they looked exactly as I had wanted them to look … Captain Marvel easing along with that comfortable confidence of his … and Mary … her eyes directed straight into those of the reader … her lips slightly parted as though in a gasp of pleasant surprise at flying through the air in such exceptional company.

And Santa Claus? It’s hard to imagine refusal by any artist to draw those three in the same scene. They looked so perfectly satisfied to be flying together … with Santa waving cheerfully to the comic book world.

By the time a printed version of that artwork hit the stands the year 1942 was rolling to a close … and I was being fitted in the olive drab of the US Army. Future preparation of the Mary Marvel art, it was learned later, had been entrusted to the Jack Binder shop of artists in whose hands, and those of Jack, it had fared satisfactorily. Further on, when I was doing the Phantom Eagle stories in Fawcett’s Wow Comics, it was difficult not to notice Mary, featured on cover and in lead story of every issue … and thereafter, occasional glimpses of Mary with various costume alterations and once, I believe, with a full head of blonde hair!

Merry Marvel Christmas Swayze’s cover for Captain Marvel Adventures #19 (Jan. 1943) is marked with the artist’s identifiable reflected gleam, which he rendered on Captain Marvel’s cuffs with his favorite #290 Joseph Gillotte pen ... and with the particular twist of the neck cordage of Cap’s cape. [©2009 DC Comics.]

A Brush With Mary Marvel Swayze commenting on Mary’s appearance on the Captain Marvel Adventures #18 cover, painted by C.C. Beck: “There she stood … somehow reminding one of a film actress in a dentifrice ad, her head too big, her knees too low!” Beck later told P.C. Hamerlinck that he regretted doing the cover not as line art, and saying something to the effect that comic book characters should not be made into threedimensional acrylic paintings. [©2009 DC Comics.]

“We Didn’t Know... It Was The Golden Age!”

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Merry Christmas, Marc!

Marc Swayze signs P.C. Hamerlinck’s copy of Captain Marvel Adventures #19 during the Hamerlincks’ visit to the Swayzes’ Louisiana home during Memorial Day weekend, 2005. Photo by Jennifer Hamerlinck.

Christmas Re-Created Swayze never got into the practice of “re-creating” Golden Age comic book covers—an income-supplementing practice enjoyed over the years by some retired comic book artists—but C.C. Beck had made a small business enterprise out it, and had no problem sometimes re-creating fan-requested old covers that even weren’t originally his own, such as this CMA #19 piece done for Don Phelps back in the ’70s. Special thanks to Charlie Roberts. [©2009 DC Comics.]

In those days when pre-publication production efforts required quite considerable time, it was not unusual for an artist to find himself at work on a snow scene in mid summer. That fact may likely be the cause of a wisp of regret experienced by the artist with even the most casual glance at the No. 19 cover. Regret … and disappointment … not with the rendering of Mary … nor Santa … and certainly not the World’s Mightiest Mortal. It was those miserable, scrawny, dinky little trees in the background that evoked a pang of dissatisfaction and an everlasting futile desire to do those trees over … visualizing instead, and drawing … elegant, colorful, snow-capped evergreens!

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The De Fuccio Papers – Part II More Splashings From The Fountain Of Knowledge That Was JERRY DE FUCCIO

by Ron Frantz Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck [EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION: Former Mad associate editor, the late Jerry De Fuccio, possessed a vast amount of knowledge of the Golden Age of Comics—nuggets of which he would often share in correspondences with people such as myself and Ron Frantz, editor of the shortlived ACE Comics line. While my gab-fest with Jerry during the final six years of his life centralized upon our mutual love of artist C.C. Beck’s work, Frantz’s letters from De Fuccio, continued in this second installment of his three-part article, packed more drama and encompassed a wider variety of comic book lore and facts. We left off at the end of Part I with the events that led to Jerry’s firing from his longtime position at Mad magazine; as we pick up from last issue, Jerry’s plight went from bad to worse. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

A

t this point, the story swerves in a slightly different direction. In December of 1983, I had the pleasure of dining with Dick Giordano in Oklahoma City. Giordano had recently been promoted to Managing Editor at DC Comics. While we were shooting the breeze, Giordano mentioned that he was in dire need of an experienced editor to fill a vacancy on the DC staff. On that note, I suggested Jerry De Fuccio. Jerry had the experience and was certainly available. Giordano said that he liked Jerry and agreed he was qualified for the position, but stated as a matter of fact that he could not hire him.

I could tell the subject made Giordano uncomfortable. He really did not want to talk about it. However, after a bit of gentle prodding, Giordano explained that a certain Warner Bros. executive had a personal dislike for Jerry and seemed determined to make his life miserable. Of

course, his rancor had little (or nothing) to do with the business of publishing. Putting it as delicately as I can, it seems this executive had been romantically involved with a female executive at DC Comics. The situation came to a boil at some industry function. Jerry, who was in a state of inebriation, expressed his desire to become “intimate” with the lady. This act of indiscretion ended with Jerry getting his face slapped, which should have been the end of it. However, as things worked out, Jerry had made a bad enemy. The ironic thing is that Jerry never knew a thing about it.

A Mad Editor C.C. Beck drew this 1980 caricature of Jerry De Fuccio in the distinctive style of Mad artist Don Martin, prior to Jerry’s dismissal from his long-time position as Mad’s associate editor. [©2009 Estate of Don Martin.]

The bottom line is that, if Giordano had allowed Jerry to work at DC, he would have put his own position in jeopardy. He didn’t like the situation, but he was smart enough to realize which side of his bread was buttered. It seems strangely coincidental that Jerry was terminated from Mad shortly after Warner Bros. acquired ownership of the magazine from Bill Gaines. Feel free to draw your own conclusion.

In January of 1986, I was about to begin publication of the black-&-white ACE Comics line. It began with my acquiring the publishing rights to a Golden Age character (from Nedor/Standard) named Spencer Spook. Looking to publish new material featuring the character and knowing very little about the mechanics of publishing, I found it necessary to hire established professionals who could help me over the rough spots. My first move in this direction was to obtain the services of artist Pat Boyette, who knew the business inside and out.

Frankly, I would have accomplished very little without his friendship and patient tutelage.

Jerry De Fuccio was my first choice for a writer. By my way of thinking, Jerry would have been perfect for the assignment after spending all those years writing comedy for Mad. However, as things worked out, Jerry felt ill at ease with the project and balked. Veteran Charlton Comics writer Joe Gill picked up the slack and scripted the first three issues. Gill, I might add, did a fine job, leaving me to believe that things might have worked out for the best.

Mad Men L to R: John Putnam, Mad art director (and former Golden Age Fawcett/”Captain Marvel” artist), award-winning actor Jon Voight (and the father responsible for bringing Angelina Jolie into the world), and Mad associate editor Jerry De Fuccio at the Mad magazine offices in New York. The photo originally appeared in the C.C. Beck-edited FCA/SOB #6 (FCA #17) for Feb./March 1981.

Instead, Jerry contributed a splendid historical article which I included in the first issue. Shortly after publication, I had a friendly chat on the phone with Dick Giordano. The lead story involved Spencer Spook haunting a comic book convention, poking gentle fun at many comic book professionals of the

The De Fuccio Papers — Part II

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time, including Giordano.

Giordano actually got a kick out of the story. Then, on a less positive note, he warned me that a “high-ranking executive” at Warner Bros. had seen Jerry’s by-line on the article and didn’t like it. Using a diplomatic tone, Giordano wanted me to be aware that I would be making a powerful enemy if I continued to work with Jerry. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Although the caveat was offered in the spirit of friendship, I felt outraged. I told Giordano that I intended to work with Jerry or anyone else, and it was of no consequence to me if this Warner Bros. big-shot liked it or not. Later, after I had cooled down a bit, I realized that Giordano had tried to do me a favor. It was something that he certainly didn’t have to do. However, it didn’t change my opinion, and I continued to work with Jerry as often as I could. Strange as it might sound, this decision may very well have come back to haunt me a few years later.

One thing about corresponding with Jerry is that you never knew what might next arrive in the mail. He was always sending something for my edification, such as this letter from Golden Age writer/editor Willard W. Harr, dated March 10, 1984: “It was like a voice out of the past to hear you rattle off these names. After all, you were talking about people that I worked with almost fifty years ago, and during that time much water has washed under the bridge (to kern a fraze) ... and washed away many memories.

Spencer Spooked Panels from the lead story in ACE Comics’ Spencer Spook #1 involved Spencer haunting a comic book convention, which poked a little fun at many comic book professionals of the time, including Dick Giordano. Even some guy dressed as the Big Red Cheese showed up a few times in the story. Script by Joe Gill; art by Pat Boyette. Jerry De Fuccio provided the issue’s historical text piece. [©2009 Ron Frantz.]

“As for Charles Biro, I don’t remember him as dynamic. He was a big fellow with a ready smile and a nice personality, and I don’t recall him displaying much temperament. As a matter of fact, he took a childlike delight in drawing little elf-like people he called ‘Goobies.’ Chesler tried to sell food manufacturers with the idea of putting the Goobies on their packages—such as cereals and puddings—but I don’t recall much success in the venture.

Incidentally, a friend of mine by the name of Phil Sturm took over as editor. He probably could supply you with more info than I can.”

For whatever reason, Jerry forwarded this letter to me in February, 1986. I haven’t a clue as to why. The best I can figure is that Jerry thought it was something I needed to know. As a historian of the comics genre, Jerry frequently corresponded with various old-timers, many of them unknown to me. In this instance, Harr had been an obscure editor at the Harry Chesler shop from 1938-47.

2/5/86: I’m looking for G.I. Joe (Ziff-Davis) #12. Cover blurbs read: Ladies From Hell ... The Killties Are Comin’, and The Patchwork Quilt. Cover shows G.I. Joe winging rifle butt, with an infant on his back.

Remarkable as it might seem, I had only recently acquired a copy of G.I. Joe #1 in a trade along with several other Ziff-Davis comics. I had no prior knowledge that Jerry needed the issue. Figuring that he needed it a lot more than I did, I mailed the issue to Jerry, calling it a belated Christmas gift.

2/14/86: Truthfully, in my time, I have undertaken three different whimsical strips for syndication, in each instance with incomparable art by Wally Wood, Jack Rickard, and Alex Toth. I paid for the art samples myself, so these artists were not obliged to speculate. They went all-out for me. I feel like a squeezed orange as regarding “funny stuff.” Since the advent of Spencer Spook, there have been too many variations on the frolicsome ghost concept.

Still, I’d be happy to review your issues of Giggle Comics to determine if there is any depth to the character.

3/3/86: Two solid afternoons input, on consecutive Sundays, and I’ve concluded that Spencer Spook is too restrictive for me. It’s a limited theme with little potential for the human condition or basis in reality. I went so far as to contemplate how Walt Kelly would have handled the spirit world. Also Warren King’s “The Banshee” in the old V Comics. I’ve gotten far afield from the character rights you purchased.

A man who thinks along your lines is Don Edwing. He does fine preliminary sketches, too. The only drawback is the he probably won’t work at comic book rates. Sorry to cut out on you, Ron, but these are hard times, trying to hold onto this huge house where I spent a happy childhood. I’d be glad to comb through Richard Hughes’s address book, the next time I’m in Madison, New Jersey.

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at Gimbell’s Department Store before he died. I’ll do my best to get an authoritative interview, if she isn’t too eccentric.

After Jerry made the necessary introductions, I became good friends with Annabel Hughes. I found her to be a charming lady with a keen memory and a wry sense of humor. She proved to be a wonderful source of information and whimsical anecdotes pertaining to her late husband Richard. I very much wish it would have met her in person. Sadly, she passed away a few years later.

3/24/86: E. Nelson Bridwell, who came to DC from Oklahoma, told me that he had entered a short story contest, in Adventures into the Unknown, when he was still in high school. He won third prize and his story was printed as a text, entitled “The Gray One.” Years later, when ACG had folded, Richard E. Hughes was struggling at DC, writing Hawkman, totally ill at ease with his imposed freelance fortunes. He met Bridwell in the hall and asked, “What did you do with the ten dollars I sent you in prize money?”

Is it possible that we can find that text piece, and the limited work that Frank Frazetta and Johnny Craig did for ACG? The roll call of “last stop” artists at ACG is a sad commentary. I suppose I can quality as a castoff, myself.

3/26/86: I note that Al Feldstein did a nine-pager in Adventures into the Unknown #3 in 1948; probably prior to applying at EC. Time and practicality permitting, I should interview Kurt Schaffenberger, who was very active at ACG. Depends on how the Annabel Hughes interview goes this Friday.

Fighting American De Fuccio recalled to Ron Frantz some of the impressive names, like artist Emil Gershwin, that passed through Richard Hughes’ ACG—often considered the last port of call for many old-time comic book artists. Gershwin earlier drew a remarkable run of WWII-era “Spy Smasher” stories for Fawcett. Art reproduced from the 1942 Spy Smasher “Mighty Midget” giveaway comic. [Spy Smasher TM & © 2009 DC Comics]

I guess I should mention that this renewed interest in Richard Hughes was due to the fact that he had been editor of the old ACG [American Comics Group] line and had written some of the original “Spencer Spook” stories published from 1945-1955. Jerry, in particular, was interested in the historical aspects of the character, especially the animated cartoon influence. This formed the basis of his articles published in the first and second issues of The Adventures of Spencer Spook.

3/23/86: I spoke to Annabel Hughes last night. She can certainly detain one on the phone! As of now, I’ll be visiting her next Friday, at her apartment in the Bronx. She warns me that it’s a pretty desperate neighborhood, so I’ll make sure that one trip will suffice.

I’m always amazed at some of the impressive names that passed through ACG. Of course, it was hard times and ACG’s rates were low. Emil Gershwin, whom Toth admires. Gerald McCann, the dry-brush western artist who was renowned in pulps. Milt Gross, who did Count Screwloose, That’s My Pop, and Pete the Pooch with the charming Yiddish undertones.

Apparently, Richard Hughes was out in the cold in 1967 and couldn’t latch on at DC. He became a customers’ complaint clerk

About this time I went through a short period when I had difficulty finding a suitable artist to ink Steve Ditko’s pencils on “The Face.” Jerry referred me to several oldtimers who he thought might be in need of the work, including Schaffenberger, Gill Fox, Tony DiPreta, and Frank Borth. None of them seemed willing or able to take on the assignment, although I did have the pleasure of visiting with each by phone. With the exception of DiPreta (who acted as if he were insulted by the offer), the conversations were nothing less than memorable. I would have enjoyed working with any of them.

FACED with a Decision Ron Frantz had difficulty finding a suitable artist to ink Steve Ditko’s pencils on The Face, another Golden Age character the ACE Comics editor/publisher had purchased and revived.

Jerry De Fuccio referred him to several old-time artists, including legendary “Marvel Family”/“Lois Lane” artist Kurt Schaffenberger (seen in this 1980 self-portrait), but he was unable to take on the assignment. Artist Frank McLaughlin ended up getting the job. [© 2009 the respective copyright holders.]

The De Fuccio Papers — Part II

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you, for your own edification. I’ve very fond of Guardineer, whom I haven’t spoken to since my rupture with Mad, so I shun the common market. Letting-go isn’t easy, unless it’s into the right hands.

5/14/86: For the purpose of updating Skyman, you might establish that the original Skyman is deceased. The new Skyman would be the grandson of Allan Turner and Fawn Carroll. I’d get Gardner Fox to do your comeback story and Toth to draw it. I want to produce the TV show when you get offers.

5/29/86: Here is a postcard by Sy Reit which should go into your animation files. I’m inclined to believe his claim of having created Casper the Ghost while at Fleischer. Woody Gelman substantiated it in the early sixties, when we spoke at the Mad office.

Seymour Reit’s postcard to Jerry, dated May 26, 1986, made for fascinating reading:

Whiz Gang In a letter dated 4/19/86, De Fuccio informed Frantz that he had telephoned that same day Ed Hamilton, a former Fawcett and C.C. Beck-Pete Costanza studio artist (who also later worked at Pines and ACG). Way back in Whiz Comics #11 (Dec. 1940), Beck had drawn three of his staff artists in a panel, including Hamilton, in the issue’s “Captain Marvel” story. (L to R:) Ed Hamilton, Jess Benton, and Frank Taggert. The artwork is reproduced from Fawcett’s ultra-rare 1940 magazine-sized Captain Marvel Thrill Book, which reprinted the Whiz #11 “CM” story in b&w. [©2009 DC Comics.]

4/18/86: Did you ever see a cute feature, “Marco Polo Jones,” in the Pines books by Ray McGill? McGill did a birthday drawing for Richard Hughes, on Annabel’s birthday. Expect to hear from Kurt Shaffenberger, next week, about a get-together. The GoulartEisner material you sent arrived before breakfast. They will keep me going until noon. You are a kindred soul. We should produce something worthwhile this summer.

4/19/86: I called Ed Hamilton (the artist, not the writer) today.

He was big at Beck-Costanza, Pines, and ACG. His landlady or housekeeper with a foreign accent called up to him. The name “Jerry” was of no consequence. She relayed the message: Call Monday. I imagine area code (718) is in the Queens, New York, region. It’s a question whether he’ll see me to discuss Richard Hughes.

5/5/86: It’s a question whether you go for my “historical approach.” I’d prefer to write about the men and have the readers dig up what they produced. Plot descriptions in depth are not for me. Do you want me to follow up on Kurt Schaffenberger? You’d want to know about his Herbie covers, I’m sure. He can lead me to Ken Bald.

5/11/86: I’ve shown some preview pages and poster of Spencer Spook to a few visitors from the Japanese Cartoonists’ Society.

They chattered like kids over it. (Yes, we gave them meatballs and spaghetti.)

5/12/86: “Devil of the Deep,” from Amazing Mystery Funnies of 1936, fifty years ago! The story was re-created and re-designed from the original Norman Daniels and Fred Guardineer story, for Cartoonist PROfiles #26, June 1975. I would like to send it to

“A quick thank you for your letter of May 21st. Thanks for clearing up the musical side of Gulliver’s Travels. The names you mentioned brought back beaucoup memories. ‘Orestes Calpini’ is pure poetry! Two other names for you (though not from the NY area): John Rabbit who of course was known as Bunny; and a Chinese artist whose total name was T. Hee. Lord, all the memories? Again, good luck with all endeavors.”

I spoke with Reit one time on the phone, hoping to persuade him to try his hand at scripting a “Spencer Spook” story. It seemed to me that he would have been a natural. I had the wild idea of teaming Reit with artist C.C. Beck for a special one-shot. However, Reit said that he was busy with more “literary” projects and politely declined the invitation.

In the meantime, I remembered the original Skyman drawing that Odgen Whitney had done for Jerry twenty years earlier. I asked Jerry if the art might be suitable for a cover, if Pat Boyette were to clean it up a little. Jerry seemed to think it would, and seemed genuinely pleased by the prospect.

6/12/86: I asked Harry Matesky (girlie/teenage publisher) to loan you the Skyman original by Whitney. I gave it to him on “permanent loan,“ so I expect him to oblige. You may have to remind him.

You might ask Joe Gill if he knew an inferior inker at Charlton, Jack Alderman, who thrived on the business when most artists were in the armed forces in World War II. Alderman was responsible for more graphic goofs than anyone in the business. He apparently didn’t have a research-photo file. Somehow, he hung on as an inker from 1953 to about 1983.

6/14/86: It appears that Gerald Albert was more than just a token editor at ACG. He graduated New York University before Richard Hughes, possibly pulling his fellow alumnus into the business. Albert teamed with Pines artist Bob Oksner on the syndicated strip Miss Cairo Jones, which ran from 1945-47.

Annabel Hughes has Oksner’s phone number in New Jersey, in case you want to ask him about Gerald Albert.

6/17/86: Despite the rapture of perusing such a well-produced entity as Spencer Spook #1, I worry about my sanity. Could I have typed “Mr. Bugs (plural) Goes To Town” instead of “Mr. Bug”? My painstaking physician father would say, concerning a proper diagnosis, “I wouldn’t want another doctor to catch my mistakes.”

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Nevertheless, I think you’ve got a good line of books going. The Robin Red preview is a tease! Can you divulge your art page rate? I think Bob Clarke would be a great asset, a “thinking” artist.

Funny stuff and fantasy.

Sitting there with egg on my face, the “Mr. Bugs” typo had been my mistake, not Jerry’s.

The printing company in Oklahoma City which did typesetting for me was not very proficient, and errors kept popping up in the text. Due to my inexperience I managed to overlook many of them. This caused Jerry considerable annoyance and displeasure, not that I could blame him. He was accustomed to working with professionals, instead of a wellmeaning amateur like myself.

To be concluded next issue.

What Is … The Face?

Splash panel from ACE Comics’ What Is ... The Face #1, Dec. 1986, written by Joe Gill, art by Ditko/McLaughlin, edited by Ron Frantz. [© 2009 Ron Frantz.]

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WHE % N YO ORD U ONL ER INE!

(224-page trade paperback) $26.95 US • ISBN: 9781893905788 • Diamond Order Code: NOV068368 • Ships April 2009

COMIC BOOK PODCAST COMPANION Comic book podcasts have taken the Internet by storm, and now TwoMorrows offers you the chance to go behind the scenes of ten of today's top comic book podcasts via all-new interviews with the casts of AROUND COMICS, WORD BALLOON, QUIET! PANELOLOGISTS AT WORK, COMIC BOOK QUEERS, iFANBOY, THE CRANKCAST, THE COLLECTED COMICS LIBRARY, THE PIPELINE PODCAST, COMIC GEEK SPEAK, and TwoMorrows’ own TUNE-IN PODCAST! Also featured are new interviews about podcasting and comics on the Internet with creators MATT FRACTION, TIM SEELEY, and GENE COLAN. You'll also find a handy guide of what you’ll need to start your own podcast, an index of more than thirty great comic book podcasts, numerous photos of your favorite podcasters, and original art from COLAN, SEELEY, DC's MIKE NORTON, and many more! By ERIC HOUSTON, with a spectacular new cover by MIKE MANLEY. (128-page trade paperback) $15.95 • ISBN: 9781605490182 • Ships May 2009

ALL-STAR COMPANION Volume 4 The epic series of ALL-STAR COMPANIONS goes out with a bang, featuring: Colossal coverage of the Golden Age ALL-STAR COMICS! Sensational secrets of the JUNIOR JUSTICE SOCIETY! An index of the complete solo adventures of all 18 original JSAers in their own features, from 1940 to 1951! The JSA's earliest imitators (Seven Soldiers of Victory, All Winners Squad, Marvel Family, and International Crime Patrol)! INFINITY, INC. on Earth-Two and after! And the 1980s SECRET ORIGINS series! With rare art by ALEX ROSS, TODD McFARLANE, JERRY ORDWAY, CARMINE INFANTINO, JOE KUBERT, ALEX TOTH, GIL KANE, MURPHY ANDERSON, IRWIN HASEN, MORT MESKIN, GENE COLAN, WAYNE BORING, GEORGE TUSKA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, GEORGE FREEMAN, DON NEWTON, JACK BURNLEY, MIKE MACHLAN, HOWARD CHAYKIN, DICK DILLIN, and others. Edited by ROY THOMAS.

CAPTAIN ACTION: THE ORIGINAL SUPERHERO ACTION FIGURE

(240-page trade paperback) $27.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490045 Ships June 2009

(Hardcover 2nd Edition)

CAPTAIN ACTION was introduced in 1966 in the wake of the Batman TV show craze, and later received his own DC comic book with art by WALLY WOOD and GIL KANE. Able to assume the identities of 13 famous super-heroes, his initial career was short-lived, but continuing interest in the hero has led to two different returns to toy-store shelves. Lavishly illustrated with over 200 toy photos, this FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER SECOND EDITION chronicles the history of this quick-changing champion, including photos of virtually EVERY CAPTAIN ACTION PRODUCT ever released, spotlights on his allies ACTION BOY and the SUPER QUEENS and his arch enemy DR. EVIL, an examination of his comic-book appearances, and “Action facts” that even the most diehard Captain Action fan won’t know! The original softcover edition has been sold out for years, but this revised, full-color hardcover second edition includes behind-the-scenes coverage of CAPTAIN ACTION’S TRIUMPHANT 2008 RETURN to comics shelves in his new series from Moonstone Books, and spotlights the new wave of Captain Action collectibles. Written by MICHAEL EURY. (176-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490175 • Ships July 2009

MARVEL COMICS IN THE 1960s: An Issue-By-Issue Field Guide

The comic book industry experienced an unexpected flowering in the early 1960s, compliments of Marvel Comics, and this book presents a step-by-step look at how a company that had the reputation of being one of the least creative in a generally moribund industry, emerged as one of the most dynamic, slightly irreverent and downright original contributions to an era when pop-culture emerged as the dominant force in the artistic life of America. In scores of handy, easy to reference entries, MARVEL COMICS IN THE 1960s takes the reader from the legendary company’s first fumbling beginnings as helmed by savvy editor/writer STAN LEE (aided by such artists as JACK KIRBY and STEVE DITKO), to the full maturity of its wild, colorful, offbeat grandiosity.

With the history of Marvel Comics in the 1960s divided into four distinct phases, author PIERRE COMTOIS explains just how Lee, Kirby, Ditko, and others created a line of comic books that, while grounded in the traditional elements of panel-to-panel storytelling, broke through the juvenile mindset of a low brow industry and provided a tapestry of full blown pop culture icons.

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490168 • Ships July 2009

GRAILPAGES:

Original Comic Book Art And The Collectors GRAILPAGES brings to light the burgeoning hobby of collecting the original, hand-drawn art that is used to create comic books! Beginning more as a novelty, the hobby of collecting original comic art has expanded to a point where some of the seminal pages commonly run more than $10,000 each. Author STEVEN ALAN PAYNE lets you meet collectors from around the globe and hear their passion in their own words, as they detail collections ranging from a few key pages, to broad, encompassing collections of literally hundreds of pages of original comic art by such artists as JACK KIRBY, JOHN ROMITA SR., and others! Balancing out the narratives are incisive interviews with industry pros, including writers GERRY CONWAY, STEVE ENGLEHART, and ROY THOMAS, and exclusive perspectives from Silver Age artists DICK GIORDANO, BOB McLEOD, ERNIE CHAN, TONY DeZUNIGA, and the unparalleled great, GENE COLAN! Completing the book is a diverse sampling of breathtakingly beautiful original comic art, some lavishly presented in full-page spreads, including pages not seen publicly for decades. Fans of comic art, comic books, and pop culture will find in GRAILPAGES an appreciation for a uniquely American form of art!

(128-page trade paperback) $15.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490151 Diamond Order Code: JAN094470 • Ships March 2009

MAGAZINES

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BRICKJOURNAL magazine is the ultimate resource for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages, spotlighting the LEGO Community with contributions and how-to articles by top builders worldwide, new product intros, and more. Edited by JOE MENO. ALTER EGO focuses on Golden and Silver Age comics and creators with articles, interviews and unseen art, plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), Mr. Monster & more. Edited by ROY THOMAS.

BRICKJOURNAL #3

BRICKJOURNAL #4

BRICKJOURNAL #5

BRICKJOURNAL #6

Event Reports from BRICKWORLD, FIRST LEGO LEAGUE WORLD FESTIVAL and PIECE OF PEACE (Japan), spotlight on our cover model builder BRYCE McGLONE, and interviews with ARTHUR GUGICK and STEVEN CANVIN of LEGO MINDSTORMS to see where LEGO ROBOTICS is going!

There’s also STEP-BY-STEP BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS, TECHNIQUES, & more!

Interviews with LEGO BUILDERS including BREANN SLEDGE (BIONICLE BUILDER), Event Reports from BRICKFAIR and BRICKCON, plus reports on new MINDSTORMS PROJECTS, STEP-BY-STEP BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS and TECHNIQUES for all skill levels, NEW SET REVIEWS, and a report on constructing the Chinese Olympic Village in LEGO!

Features event reports from around the world, and the MINDSTORMS 10TH ANNIVERSARY at LEGO HEADQUARTERS! Plus an interview with the head of the LEGO GROUP’S 3D DEPARTMENT, a glimpse at the LEGO Group's past with the DIRECTOR OF LEGO'S IDEA HOUSE, instructions and spotlights on builders, and an idea section for Pirate builders!

Spotlight on CLASSIC SPACE SETS and a look at new ones with LEGO SET DESIGNERS, BRANDON GRIFFITH shows his STAR TREK MODELS, plus take a tour of the DUTCH MOONBASE with MIKE VAN LEEUWEN and MARCO BAAS. There's also coverage of BRICKFEST 2009 and FIRST LEGO LEAGUE'S WORLD FESTIVAL and photos from TOY FAIR NEW YORK!

(80-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 US Diamond Order Code: JUN084415

(80-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 US Diamond Order Code: SEP084428

(80-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 US Diamond Order Code: DEC084408 Ships March 2009

(80-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 US Ships June 2009

THE RETRO COMICS EXPERIENCE!

TM

BACK ISSUE celebrates comic books of the 1970s, 1980s, and today through a variety of recurring (and rotating) departments, plus rare and unpublished art. Edited by MICHAEL EURY. DRAW! is the professional “How-To” magazine on cartooning and animation, featuring in-depth interviews and step-bystep demonstrations from top comics professionals. Edited by MIKE MANLEY. ROUGH STUFF features never-seen pencil pages, sketches, layouts, roughs, and unused inked pages from throughout comics history, plus columns, critiques, and more!

Edited by BOB McLEOD. WRITE NOW! features writing tips from pros on both sides of the desk, interviews, sample scripts, reviews, exclusive Nuts & Bolts tutorials, and more!

Edited by DANNY FINGEROTH.

ALTER EGO #81

ALTER EGO #82

ALTER EGO #83

ALTER EGO #84

New FRANK BRUNNER Man-Thing cover, a look at the late-’60s horror comic WEB OF HORROR with early work by BRUNNER, WRIGHTSON, WINDSOR-SMITH, SIMONSON, & CHAYKIN, interview with comics & fine artist EVERETT RAYMOND KINTSLER, ROY THOMAS’ 1971 origin synopsis for the FIRST MAN-THING STORY, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

MLJ ISSUE! Golden Age MLJ index illustrated with vintage images of The Shield, Hangman, Mr. Justice, Black Hood,

by IRV NOVICK, JACK COLE, CHARLES BIRO, MORT MESKIN, GIL KANE, & others—behind a marvelous MLJ-heroes cover

by BOB McLEOD! Plus interviews with IRV NOVICK and JOE EDWARDS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

SWORD & SORCERY PART 2! Cover by ARTHUR SUYDAM, in-depth art-filled look at Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, DC’s Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Dagar the Invincible, Ironjaw & Wulf, and Arak, Son of Thunder, plus the never-seen Valda the Iron Maiden by TODD McFARLANE! Plus JOE EDWARDS (Part 2), FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

Unseen JIM APARO cover, STEVE SKEATES discusses his early comics work, art & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD, and the great WARREN SAVIN! Plus writer CHARLES SINCLAIR on his partnership with Batman co-creator BILL FINGER, FCA, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: AUG084454

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: OCT084483

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: NOV084368

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: JAN094555 Ships March 2009

C o l l e c t o r

The JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR magazine celebrates his life and career through INTERVIEWS WITH KIRBY and his contemporaries, FEATURE ARTICLES, RARE AND UNSEEN KIRBY ART, and more.

Edited by JOHN MORROW.

SUBSCRIBE TO THE PRINT EDITION, AND GET THE DIGITAL EDITION FREE, BEFORE THE PRINT ISSUE HITS STORES!

BACK ISSUE #29

BACK ISSUE #30

BACK ISSUE #31

BACK ISSUE #32

“Mutants” issue! CLAREMONT, BYRNE, SMITH, and ROMITA, JR.’s X-Men work, NOCENTI and ARTHUR ADAMS’ Longshot, McLEOD and SIENKIEWICZ’s New Mutants, the UK’s CAPTAIN BRITAIN series, lost Angel stories, Beast’s tenure with the Avengers, the return of the original X-Men in X-Factor, the revelation of Nightcrawler’s “original” father, a history of DC’s mutant, Captain Comet, and more! Cover by DAVE COCKRUM!

“Saturday Morning Heroes!” Interviews with TV Captain Marvels JACKSON BOSTWICK and JOHN DAVEY, MAGGIN and SAVIUK’s lost Superman/”Captain Thunder” sequel, Space Ghost interviews with GARY OWENS and STEVE RUDE, MARV WOLFMAN guest editorial, Super Friends, unproduced fourth wave Super Powers action figures, Astro Boy, ADAM HUGHES tribute to DAVE STEVENS, and a new cover by ALEX ROSS!

“STEVE GERBER Salute!” In-depth look at his Howard the Duck, Man-Thing, Omega the Unknown, Defenders, Metal Men, Mister Miracle, Thundarr the Barbarian, and more!

Plus: Creators pay tribute to Steve Gerber, featuring art by and commentary from BRUNNER, BUCKLER, COLAN, GOLDEN, STAN LEE, LEVITZ, MAYERIK, MOONEY, PLOOG, SIMONSON, and others. Cover painting by FRANK BRUNNER!

“Tech, Data, and Hardware!” The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, WEIN, WOLFMAN, and GREENBERGER on DC’s Who’s Who, SAVIUK, STATON, and VAN SCIVER on Drawing Green Lantern, ED HANNIGAN Art Gallery, history of Rom: Spaceknight, story of BILL MANTLO, Dial H for Hero, Richie Rich’s Inventions, and a Spider-Mobile schematic cover by ELIOT BROWN and DUSTY ABELL!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: MAY084246

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: JUL084393

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: SEP084399

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: NOV084369

DRAW! #17

DRAW! #18

ROUGH STUFF #10

ROUGH STUFF #11

ROUGH STUFF #12

Interview with Scott Pilgrim’s creator and artist BRYAN LEE O’MALLEY on how he creates the acclaimed series, plus learn how B.P.R.D.’s GUY DAVIS works on his series.

Also, more Comic Art Bootcamp: Learning from The Great Cartoonists by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, reviews, and more!

Features an in-depth interview and demo

by R.M. GUERA (the artist of Vertigo’s Scalped), behind-the-scenes in the Batcave with Cartoon Network’s JAMES TUCKER on the new hit show “Batman: The Brave and the Bold,” plus product reviews by JAMAR NICHOLAS, and Comic Book Boot Camp’s “Anatomy: Part 2” by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY!

Interview with RON GARNEY, with copious examples of sketchwork and comments.

Also features on ANDY SMITH, MICHAEL JASON PAZ, and MATT HALEY, showing how their work evolves, excerpts from a new book on ALEX RAYMOND, secrets of teaching comic art by pro inker BOB McLEOD, new cover by GARNEY and McLEOD, newcomer critique, and more!

New cover by GREG HORN, plus interviews with HORN and TOM YEATES on how they produce their stellar work. Also features on GENE HA, JIMMY CHEUNG, and MIKE PERKINS, showing their sketchwork and commentary, tips on collecting sketches and commissions from artists, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work, and more!

Interview and cover by comic painter CHRIS MOELLER, features on New Zealand comic artist COLIN WILSON, G.I. Joe artist JEREMY DALE, and fan favorite TERRY DODSON, plus "GOOD GIRL ART" (a new article about everyone's favorite collectible art) by ROBERT PLUNKETT, a "Rough Critique" of an aspiring artist's work, and more!

(80-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 US • Ships Spring 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: AUG084469

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: NOV084404

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships April 2009

(80-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 US • Ships February 2009 Diamond Order Code: DEC084377

ALTER EGO #85

ALTER EGO #86

ALTER EGO #87

ALTER EGO #88

WRITE NOW! #20

Captain Marvel and Superman’s battles explored (in cosmic space, candy stories, and in court, with art by WALLY WOOD, CURT SWAN, and GIL KANE), an in-depth interview with Golden Age great LILY RENÉE, overview of CENTAUR COMICS (home of BILL EVERETT’s Amazing-Man and others), FCA, MR. MONSTER, new RICH BUCKLER cover, and more!

Spotlighting the Frantic Four-Color MAD WANNABES of 1953-55 that copied HARVEY KURTZMAN’S EC smash (see Captain Marble, Mighty Moose, Drag-ula, Prince Scallion, and more) with art by SIMON & KIRBY, KUBERT & MAURER, ANDRU & ESPOSITO, EVERETT, COLAN, and many others, plus Part 1 of a talk with Golden/ Silver Age artist FRANK BOLLE, and more!

The sensational 1954-1963 saga of Great Britain’s MARVELMAN (decades before he metamorphosed into Miracleman), plus an interview with writer/artist/co-creator MICK ANGLO, and rare Marvelman/ Miracleman work by ALAN DAVIS, ALAN MOORE, a new RICK VEITCH cover, plus FRANK BOLLE, Part 2, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

First-ever in-depth look at National/DC’s founder MAJOR MALCOLM WHEELERNICHOLSON, and early editors WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, VIN SULLIVAN, and MORT WEISINGER, with rare art and artifacts by SIEGEL & SHUSTER, BOB KANE, CREIG FLESSEL, FRED GUARDINEER, GARDNER FOX, SHELDON MOLDOFF, and others, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

Focus on THE SPIRIT movie, showing how FRANK MILLER transformed WILL EISNER’s comics into the smash-hit film, with interviews with key players behind the making of the movie, a look at what made Eisner’s comics so special, and more. Plus: an interview with COLLEEN DORAN, writer ALEX GRECIAN on how to get a pitch green lighted, script and art examples, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships May 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships June 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships July 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships August 2009

(80-page magazine) $6.95 US FINAL ISSUE! Ships February 2009 Diamond Order Code: DEC084398

BACK ISSUE #33

BACK ISSUE #34

BACK ISSUE #35

KIRBY COLLECTOR #52

KIRBY COLLECTOR #53

“Teen Heroes!” Teen Titans in the 1970s & 1980s, with CARDY, GARCÍA-LÓPEZ, PÉREZ, TUSKA, and WOLFMAN, BARON and GUICE on the Flash, interviews with TV Billy Batson MICHAEL GRAY and writer STEVE SKEATES, NICIEZA and BAGLEY’s New Warriors, Legion of Super-Heroes 1970s art gallery, James Bond Jr., and… the Archies! New Teen Titans cover by GEORGE PÉREZ and colored by GENE HA!

“New World Order!” Adam Warlock examined with JIM STARLIN and ROY THOMAS, the history of Miracleman with ALAN DAVIS & GARRY LEACH, JIM SHOOTER interview, roundtable with Marvel’s post-STAN LEE editors-in-chief on the New Universe, Logan’s Run, Star Hunters, BOB WIACEK on Star Wars and Star-Lord, DICK GIORDANO revisits Crisis on Infinite Earths and “The Post-Crisis DC Universe You Didn’t See,” and a new cover by JIM STARLIN!

“Villains!” MIKE ZECK and J.M. DeMATTEIS discuss “Kraven’s Last Hunt” in a “Pro2Pro” interview, the history of the Hobgoblin is exposed, the Joker’s short-lived series, looks back at Secret Society of Super-Villains and Kobra, a Magneto biography, Luthor and Brainiac’s malevolent makeovers, interview with Secret Society artist MIKE VOSBURG, plus contributions from BYRNE, CONWAY, FRENZ, NOVICK, ROMITA JR., STERN, WOLFMAN, and a cover by MIKE ZECK!

Spotlights Kirby’s most obscure work, like an UNUSED THOR STORY, his BRUCE LEE comic, animation work, stage play, and see original unaltered versions of pages from KAMANDI, DEMON, DESTROYER DUCK, and more, including a feature examining the last page of his final issue of various series BEFORE EDITORIAL TAMPERING (with lots of surprises)! Color Kirby covers inked by DON HECK and PAUL SMITH!

Spotlights THE MAGIC OF STAN & JACK! There’s a new interview with STAN LEE, a walking tour of New York showing where Lee & Kirby lived and worked, a re-evaluation of the “Lost” FF #108 story (including a missing page that just surfaced), “What If Jack Hadn’t Left Marvel In 1970?”, plus MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, and more, behind a color Kirby cover inked by GEORGE PÉREZ!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships May 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Ships July 2009

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: JAN094556 Ships March 2009

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 US Diamond Order Code: DEC084397 Ships February 2009

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 US Ships May 2009

THE ULTIMATE MAGAZINE FOR LEGO ENTHUSIASTS OF ALL AGES! TM

BRICKJOURNAL magazine (edited by Joe Meno) is the ultimate resource for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages. It spotlights all aspects of the LEGO Community, showcasing events, people, and models every issue, with contributions and how-to articles by top builders worldwide, new product intros, and more. Edited by JOE MENO. Begun as a digital-only publication in 2005, the NEW PRINT VERSION (Vol. 2) of BrickJournal launched in 2008, and is available in both print and digital form. Print subscribers get the digital version FREE!

DIEDGITIIOTANSL

BLE AVAILANLY FOR O PER $3.95 LOAD DOWN

BRICKJOURNAL #4 (Vol. 2) BRICKJOURNAL #1 (Vol. 2)

BRICKJOURNAL #2 (Vol. 2)

The ultimate resource for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages, showcasing events, people, and models! FULL-COLOR #1 features an interview with set designer and LEGO Certified Professional NATHAN SAWAYA, plus step-bystep building instructions and techniques for all skill levels, new set reviews, on-the-scene reports from LEGO community events, and other surprises!

This FULL-COLOR issue spotlights blockbuster summer movies, LEGO style! Go behind the scenes for new sets for BATMAN and INDIANA JONES, and see new models, including an SR-71 SPYPLANE and a LEGO CITY, plus MINIFIGURE CUSTOMIZATIONS, BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS, tour the ONLINE LEGO FACTORY, and more!

(80-page FULL COLOR magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to print subscribers) Diamond Order Code: FEB088010

(80-page FULL COLOR magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to print subscribers) Diamond Order Code: MAR084135

BRICKJOURNAL #3 (Vol. 2) Our third FULL-COLOR print issue has LEGO Event reports from BRICKWORLD (Chicago), FIRST LEGO LEAGUE WORLD FESTIVAL (Atlanta) and PIECE OF PEACE (Japan). There's also a spotlight on the creation of our amazing cover model, built by BRYCE McGLONE, as well as interviews with ARTHUR GUGICK and STEVEN CANVIN of LEGO MINDSTORMS, to see where LEGO robotics is going! Plus step-by-step building instructions, techniques, and more!

(80-page FULL COLOR magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to print subscribers) • Diamond Order Code: JUN084415

FULL-COLOR issue #4 features interviews with top LEGO BUILDERS including BREANN SLEDGE (BIONICLE BUILDER), Event Reports from LEGO gatherings including BRICKFAIR (Washington, DC) and BRICKCON (Seattle, Washington), plus reports on new MINDSTORMS PROJECTS, STEP-BY-STEP BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS and TECHNIQUES for all skill levels, NEW SET REVIEWS, and a report on the recreation of the Chinese Olympic Village in LEGO! (80-page FULL COLOR magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to print subscribers) Diamond Order Code: DEC084408

BRICKJOURNAL #5 (Vol. 2)

BRICKJOURNAL #6 (Vol. 2)

FULL-COLOR issue #5 features event reports from around the world, and the MINDSTORMS 10TH ANNIVERSARY at LEGO HEADQUARTERS! Plus an interview with the head of the LEGO GROUP’S 3D DEPARTMENT, a glimpse at the LEGO Group's past with the DIRECTOR OF LEGO'S IDEA HOUSE, instructions and spotlights on builders, and an idea section for PIRATE BUILDERS!

FULL-COLOR issue #6 goes into space, with a look at old LEGO CLASSIC SPACE SETS and a look toward the new with set designers! BRANDON GRIFFITH beams in with a look at his STAR TREK MODELS, and you'll take a tour of the DUTCH MOONBASE courtesy of MIKE VAN LEEUWEN and MARCO BAAS. There's also coverage of BRICKFEST 2009 and FIRST LEGO LEAGUE'S WORLD FESTIVAL as well as photos from TOY FAIR NEW YORK!

(80-page FULL COLOR magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to print subscribers) Diamond Order Code: DEC084408 Ships March 2009

(80-page FULL COLOR magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95 (or FREE to print subscribers) Ships June 2009

4-ISSUE SUBSCRIPTIONS: $38 US Postpaid by Media Mail ($48 First Class, $55 Canada • Elsewhere: $78 Surface, $85 Airmail)

PRINT SUBSCRIBERS GET THE DIGITAL EDITION FREE, BEFORE THE PRINT ISSUE HITS STORES!

DOWNLOAD A FREE DIGITAL EDITION OF VOL. 1, #9 NOW AT www.twomorrows.com

GET THE 9 ORIGINAL DIGITAL ISSUES! The first nine original issues of BRICKJOURNAL shown below comprise VOLUME ONE, and were released online from 2005-2007 as Digital Editions only. They’re available in PDF form for downloading now for $3.95 EACH, and #9 is FREE!

Those first nine digital-only issues that comprise Vol. 1 are finally available in PRINT FORM FOR THE FIRST TIME in our series of BRICKJOURNAL COMPENDIUMS! Each full-color trade paperback offers a wealth of information and building tips on all things LEGO! (NOTE: These are DIFFERENT ISSUES than the new ongoing print edition (Vol. 2)!

BRICKJOURNAL COMPENDIUM 1 COMPENDIUM 1 compiles the digital-only issues #1-3 (Vol. 1) of the acclaimed online magazine for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages — for the first time in printed form! It features interviews with LEGO car builder ZACHARY SWEIGART (showing his version of the timetraveling Delorean from the movie Back to the Future), JØRGEN VIG KNUDSTORP (CEO of LEGO Systems, Inc.), Mecha builders BRYCE McLONE and JEFF RANJO, paraplegic LEGO builder SCOTT WARFIELD, BOB CARNEY (LEGO castle builder extraordinaire) and RALPH SAVELSBURG (LEGO plane builder), REVEREND BRENDAN POWELL SMITH (author of the LEGO version of the Bible), NASA Astronaut Trainer KIETH JOHNSON, JAKE McKEE (Global Community Director for The LEGO Group), builder JASON ALLEMANN on recreating the spacecraft from 2001: A Space Odyssey and 2010: The Year We Make Contact, features on the BIONICLE universe, how to make your own custom bricks, plus instructions and techniques, and more!

(256-page FULL-COLOR trade paperback) $39.95 US • ISBN: 978-1-893905-97-9 Diamond Order Code: FEB084083 • Now shipping

BRICKJOURNAL COMPENDIUM 2 COMPENDIUM 2 compiles the digital-only issues #4-5 (Vol. 1) of the acclaimed online magazine for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages — for the first time in printed form! It features interviews with: MIKE WILDER (about using a Mindstorms robot to film a 3-D documentary) and MARK LARSON (creator of the Fabuland Housewifes online comic strip), ALBAN NANTY on his LEGO-based Star Wars® film, plus features on LEGO character sculptures, tutorials on LCad software for creating projects, an examination of LEGOLand's history, behind the scenes at a LEGO factory, building big with LEGOs (from castles and rollercoasters to ships and skyscrapers), creating custom minifigures, instructions and building techniques, and more!

(224-page FULL-COLOR trade paperback) $34.95 • ISBN: 9781605490021 Diamond Order Code: JUN084416 • Now shipping

BRICKJOURNAL COMPENDIUM 3 COMPENDIUM 3 compiles the digital-only issues #6-7 (Vol. 1) of the acclaimed online magazine for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages — for the first time in printed form! This FULL-COLOR book spotlights all aspects of the LEGO COMMUNITY through interviews with builders KNUD THOMSEN (builder of a LEGO city), ANTHONY SAVA (castle and dragon builder), JØRGEN VIG KNUDSTORP (CEO to the LEGO Group) and the duo ARVO (builders of many incredible models), plus features on LEGO FAN CONVENTIONS, such as BRICKFEST, LEGO WORLD (the Netherlands), and 1000STEINE-LAND (Germany), reviews and behind the scenes reports on two LEGO sets (the CAFE CORNER and HOBBY TRAIN), how to create custom minifigures, instructions and techniques, and more! Edited by JOE MENO. (224-page FULL-COLOR trade paperback) $34.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490069 Diamond Order Code: JAN094469 • Ships April 2009

BRICKJOURNAL COMPENDIUM 4 COMPENDIUM 4 compiles the digital-only issues #8-9 (Vol. 1) of the acclaimed online magazine for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages — for the first time in printed form! It covers a Lego art show, building a larger-than-life Yoda, an interview with LEGOLand builder GUY BAGLEY and a top LEGO Star Wars set designer, how to build a DROID STARFIGHTER, a LEGO POKÉMON character gallery, a look at the POWER FUNCTIONS electric building system, a visit to an amazing STAR WARS LEGO DISPLAY in the United Kingdom, coverage of the 75th Anniversary celebration at the LEGO headquarters in Denmark, and more! Features LEGO event reports, building instructions and techniques, and more!

Edited by JOE MENO. (256-page FULL-COLOR trade paperback) $39.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490199 Ships July 2009

TM

TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Art & History Of LEGO. (& Comics!)

TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

NEW MODERN MASTERS VOLUMES Each book contains RARE AND UNSEEN ARTWORK direct from the artist’s files, a COMPREHENSIVE INTERVIEW, DELUXE SKETCHBOOK SECTIONS, and more!

Volume 19: MIKE PLOOG

Volume 20: KYLE BAKER

Volume 21: CHRIS SPROUSE

Volume 22: MARK BUCKINGHAM

Volume 23: DARWYN COOKE

by Eric Nolen-Weathington & Roger Ash (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781605490076 Diamond Order Code: SEP084304 Now shipping

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $14.95 ISBN: 9781605490083 Diamond Order Code: SEP084305 Ships February 2009

by Eric Nolen-Weathington & Todd DeZago (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 97801605490137 Diamond Order Code: NOV084298 Ships March 2008

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (128-page trade paperback) $14.95 ISBN: 9781605490144 Diamond Order Code: JUL088519 Ships May 2008

by Eric Nolen-Weathington (120-page TPB with COLOR) $15.95 ISBN: 9781605490205 Ships June 2008

AGE OF TV HEROES Examines the history of the live-action television adventures of everyone’s favorite comic book heroes! FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER features the in-depth stories of the actors and behind-thescene players that made the classic super-hero television programs we all grew up with.

Included are new and exclusive interviews and commentary from ADAM WEST (Batman), LYNDA CARTER (Wonder Woman), PATRICK WARBURTON (The Tick), NICHOLAS HAMMOND (Spider-Man), WILLIAM KATT (The Greatest American Hero), JACK LARSON (The Adventures of Superman), JOHN WESLEY SHIPP (The Flash), JACKSON BOSTWICK (Shazam!), and many more!

Written by JASON HOFIUS and GEORGE KHOURY, with a new cover by superstar painter ALEX ROSS! (192-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490106 Diamond Order Code: SEP084302 Rescheduled for July 2009

SUBSCRIPTION RATES 2009 SUBSCRIPTION RATES:

Media Mail

EXTRAORDINARY WORKS KIRBY FIVE-OH! OF ALAN MOORE: LIMITED HARDCOVER Indispensable Edition Limited to 500 copies, KIRBY FIVE-OH! The definitive biography of the co-creator of WATCHMEN and V FOR VENDETTA finally returns to print in a NEW EXPANDED AND UPDATED VERSION! Features an extensive series of interviews with MOORE about his entire career, including a new interview covering his work since the sold-out 2003 edition of this book was published.

Includes RARE STRIPS, SCRIPTS, ART, and private PHOTOS of the author, plus a series of tribute comic strips by many of Moore’s closest collaborators, a COLOR SECTION featuring a RARE MOORE STORY (remastered, and starring MR. MONSTER), and more! Edited by GEORGE KHOURY, with a cover by DAVE McKEAN! (240-page trade paperback) $29.95 US ISBN: 9781605490090 Diamond Order Code: OCT084400 Limited Hardcover Signed by Alan Moore (100 hardcover copies) $49.95 US Only available from TwoMorrows!

1st Class Canada 1st Class Priority Intl.

Intl.

US

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR (4 issues)

$50

$60

$60

$84

$136

BACK ISSUE! (6 issues)

$44

$60

$70

$105

$115

DRAW! (4 issues)

$30

$40

$47

$70

$77

ALTER EGO (12 issues) Six-issue subs are half-price!

$88

$120

$140

$210

$230

BRICKJOURNAL (4 issues)

$38

$48

$55

$78

$85

LIMITED HARDCOVER EDITION covers the best of everything from Jack Kirby’s 50-year career in comics, including his 50 BEST STORIES, BEST COVERS, BEST EXAMPLES OF UNUSED KIRBY ART, BEST CHARACTER DESIGNS, and profiles of, and commentary by, 50 PEOPLE INFLUENCED BY KIRBY’S WORK! Plus there’s a 50-PAGE GALLERY of Kirby’s PENCIL ART, a DELUXE COLOR SECTION, a previously unseen Kirby Superman cover inked by DARWYN COOKE, and an introduction by MARK EVANIER! Includes a full-color wrapped hardcover, and an individuallynumbered extra Kirby pencil art plate not included in the softcover edition! It’s ONLY AVAILABLE FROM TWOMORROWS, and is not sold in stores! Edited by JOHN MORROW.

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #27-30, with looks at Jack’s 1970s and ‘80s work, plus a two-part focus on how widespread Kirby’s influence is! Features rare interviews with KIRBY himself, plus Watchmen’s ALAN MOORE and DAVE GIBBONS, NEIL GAIMAN, Bone’s JEFF SMITH, MARK HAMILL, and others! See page after page of rare Kirby art, including a NEW SPECIAL SECTION with over 30 PIECES OF KIRBY ART NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED, and more!

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 US ISBN: 9781605490120 Diamond Order Code: DEC084286 Ships February 2009

(168-page Limited Edition Hardcover) (500 hardcover copies) $34.95 US Only available from TwoMorrows!

SHIPPING COSTS: Order online for exact weight-based postage, or ADD $2 PER MAGAZINE OR DVD/$4 PER BOOK IN THE US for Media Mail shipping.

OUTSIDE THE US, PLEASE ORDER ONLINE TO CALCULATE YOUR EXACT POSTAGE COSTS & SAVE!

Subscriptions will start with the next available issue, but CURRENT AND OLDER ISSUES MUST BE PURCHASED AT THE BACK ISSUE PRICE (new issues ship in bulk, and we pass the savings on in our subscription rates). In the US, we generally ship back issues and books by MEDIA MAIL.

COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR Volume 7

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TwoMorrows Publishing is a division of TwoMorrows, Inc. TM

TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics. (& LEGO! ) TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

TWOMORROWS BOOKS

by ROY THOMAS NEW FOR 2008

ALTER EGO COLLECTION, VOL. 1 Collects ALTER EGO #1-2, plus 30 pages of new material! Behind a new JLA Jam Cover by JOE KUBERT, GEORGE PÉREZ, DICK GIORDANO, GEORGE TUSKA, NICK CARDY, RAMONA FRADON, and JOE GIELLA, there’s: GIL KANE, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, and GARDNER FOX on the creation of the Silver Age Atom! “The STAN LEE Roast” with SAL BUSCEMA, JOHN ROMITA, PETER DAVID, CHRIS CLAREMONT, JIM SHOOTER, et al.! MICHAEL T. GILBERT on WILL EISNER’s 1966 Spirit story! ROY THOMAS, JERRY ORDWAY, and MIKE MACHLAN on creating Infinity, Inc.! Interviews with LARRY LIEBER, IRWIN HASEN, & JACK BURNLEY! Wonder Woman rarities, with art by H.G. PETER! Plus FCA, new sections featuring scarce art by GIL KANE, WILL EISNER, CARMINE INFANTINO, MIKE SEKOWSKY, MURPHY ANDERSON, DICK DILLIN, plus all seven of our super-star cover artists!

(192-page trade paperback) $21.95 ISBN: 9781893905597 Diamond Order Code: APR063420

ALTER EGO: THE BEST OF THE LEGENDARY COMICS FANZINE

(10TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION) In 1961, JERRY BAILS and ROY THOMAS launched ALTER EGO, the first fanzine devoted to comic books and their colorful history. This volume, first published in low distribution in 1997, collects the original 11 issues (published from 1961-78) of A/E, with the creative and artistic contributions of JACK KIRBY, STEVE DITKO, WALLY WOOD, JOHN BUSCEMA, MARIE SEVERIN, BILL EVERETT, RUSS MANNING, CURT SWAN, & others—and important, illustrated interviews with GIL KANE, BILL EVERETT, & JOE KUBERT! See where a generation first learned about the Golden Age of Comics—while the Silver Age was in full flower—with major articles on the JUSTICE SOCIETY, the MARVEL FAMILY, the MLJ HEROES, and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS & BILL SCHELLY with an introduction by the late JULIUS SCHWARTZ.

JOHN ROMITA... AND ALL THAT JAZZ! “Jazzy” JOHN ROMITA talks about his life, his art, and his contemporaries! Authored by former Marvel Comics editor in chief and top writer ROY THOMAS, and noted historian JIM AMASH, it features the most definitive interview Romita’s ever given, about working with such comics legends as STAN LEE and JACK KIRBY, following Spider-Man co-creator STEVE DITKO as artist on the strip, and more!

Plus, Roy Thomas shares memories of working with Romita in the 1960s-70s, and Jim Amash examines the awesome artistry of Ring-a-Ding Romita! Lavishly illustrated with Romita art—original classic art, and unseen masterpieces—as well as illos by some of Marvel’s and DC’s finest, this is at once a career overview of a comics master, and a firsthand history of the industry by one of its leading artists! Available in Softcover and Deluxe Hardcover (with 16 extra color pages, dust jacket, and custom endleaves).

(192-page softcover) $24.95 ISBN: 9781893905757 • Diamond Order Code: APR074018 (208-page hardcover with COLOR) $44.95 ISBN: 9781893905764 • Diamond Order Code: APR074019

(192-page trade paperback) $21.95 ISBN: 9781893905887 Diamond Order Code: DEC073946

ALL- STAR COMPANION VOL. 2 ROY THOMAS presents still more secrets of the Justice Society of America and ALL-STAR COMICS, from 1940 through the 1980s, featuring: A fabulous wraparound cover by CARLOS PACHECO! More amazing information and speculation on the classic ALL-STAR COMICS of 1940-1951! Never-before-seen Golden Age art by IRWIN HASEN, CARMINE INFANTINO, ALEX TOTH, MART NODELL, JOE KUBERT, H.G. PETER, and others! Art from an unpublished 1940s JSA story not seen in Volume 1! Rare art from the original JLA-JSA team-ups and the 1970s ALL-STAR COMICS REVIVAL by MIKE SEKOWSKY, DICK DILLIN, JOE STATON, WALLY WOOD, KEITH GIFFEN, and RIC ESTRADA! Full coverage of the 1980s ALL-STAR SQUADRON, and a bio of every single All-Star, plus never-seen art by JERRY ORDWAY, RICH BUCKLER, ARVELL JONES, RAFAEL KAYANAN, and special JSArelated art and features by FRANK BRUNNER, ALEX ROSS, NEAL ADAMS, GIL KANE, MIKE MIGNOLA, and RAMONA FRADON—and more!

NEW FOR 2008

(240-page trade paperback) $24.95 ISBN: 9781893905375 Diamond Order Code: AUG063622

ALL- STAR COMPANION VOL. 3

SAVE

1 WHE5% N

ORD YOU ONL ER INE!

NOW ALL BOOKS, MAGAZINES & DVDs ARE 15% OFF COVER PRICE EVERY DAY AT www.twomorrows.com!

In this third volume, comics legend Roy Thomas presents still more amazing secrets behind the 1940-51 ALL-STAR COMICS and the JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA! Also, there’s an issue-by-issue survey of the JLA/JSA TEAM-UPS of 1963-85, the 1970s JSA REVIVAL, and the 1980s series THE YOUNG ALL-STARS with commentary by the artists and writers! Plus rare, often unseen art by NEAL ADAMS, DICK AYERS, MICHAEL BAIR, JOHN BUSCEMA, SEAN CHEN, DICK DILLIN, RIC ESTRADA, CREIG FLESSEL, KEITH GIFFEN, DICK GIORDANO, MIKE GRELL, TOM GRINDBERG, TOM GRUMMETT, RON HARRIS, IRWIN HASEN, DON HECK, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, JACK KIRBY, JOE KUBERT, BOB LAYTON, SHELDON MAYER, BOB McLEOD, SHELDON MOLDOFF, BRIAN MURRAY, JERRY ORDWAY, ARTHUR PEDDY, GEORGE PÉREZ, H.G. PETER, HOWARD PURCELL, PAUL REINMAN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, HOWARD SIMPSON, JOE SINNOTT, JIM STARLIN, JOE STATON, RONN SUTTON, ALEX TOTH, JIM VALENTINO and many others! Featuring a new JLA/JSA cover by GEORGE PÉREZ! (240-page trade paperback) $26.95 ISBN: 9781893905801 • Diamond Order Code: SEP074020

Edited by ROY THOMAS The greatest ‘zine of the 1960s is back, ALL-NEW, and focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America, featuring the archives of C.C. BECK and recollections by Fawcett artist MARCUS SWAYZE), Michael T. Gilbert’s MR. MONSTER, and more!

2007 EISNER AWARD WINNER Best Comics-Related Periodical

Go online for an ULTIMATE BUNDLE, with all the issues at HALF-PRICE!

DIEGDITITIOANL ONLY!

ALTER EGO #1

ALTER EGO #2

ALTER EGO #3

STAN LEE gets roasted by SCHWARTZ, CLAREMONT, DAVID, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, and SHOOTER, ORDWAY and THOMAS on INFINITY, INC., IRWIN HASEN interview, unseen H.G. PETER Wonder Woman pages, the original Captain Marvel and Human Torch teamup, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, “Mr. Monster”, plus plenty of rare and unpublished art!

Featuring a never-reprinted SPIRIT story by WILL EISNER, the genesis of the SILVER AGE ATOM (with GARDNER FOX, GIL KANE, and JULIE SCHWARTZ), interviews with LARRY LIEBER and Golden Age great JACK BURNLEY, BOB KANIGHER, a new Fawcett Collectors of America section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, and more!

GIL KANE and JACK BURNLEY flip-covers!

Unseen ALEX ROSS and JERRY ORDWAY Shazam! art, 1953 interview with OTTO BINDER, the SUPERMAN/CAPTAIN MARVEL LAWSUIT, GIL KANE on The Golden Age of TIMELY COMICS, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, rare art by AYERS, BERG, BURNLEY, DITKO, RICO, SCHOMBURG, MARIE SEVERIN and more! ALEX ROSS & BILL EVERETT covers!

(80-page magazine) SOLD OUT (80-page Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JUL991700

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: OCT991711

DIEGDITITIOANL ONLY!

ALTER EGO #4

ALTER EGO #5

ALTER EGO #6

ALTER EGO #7

ALTER EGO #8

Interviews with KUBERT, SHELLY MOLDOFF, and HARRY LAMPERT, BOB KANIGHER, life and times of GARDNER FOX, ROY THOMAS remembers GIL KANE, a history of Flash Comics, MOEBIUS Silver Surfer sketches, MR. MONSTER, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, and lots more! Dual color covers by JOE KUBERT!

Celebrating the JSA, with interviews with MART NODELL, SHELLY MAYER, GEORGE ROUSSOS, BILL BLACK, and GIL KANE, unpublished H.G. PETER Wonder Woman art, GARDNER FOX, an FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, WENDELL CROWLEY, and more! Wraparound cover

by CARMINE INFANTINO and JERRY ORDWAY!

GENE COLAN interview, 1940s books on comics by STAN LEE and ROBERT KANIGHER, AYERS, SEVERIN, and ROY THOMAS on Sgt. Fury, ROY on All-Star Squadron’s Golden Age roots, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, JOE SIMON interview, a definitive look at MAC RABOY’S work, and more! Covers by COLAN and RABOY!

Companion to ALL-STAR COMPANION book, with a JULIE SCHWARTZ interview, guide to JLA-JSA TEAMUPS, origins of the ALL-STAR SQUADRON, FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK (on his 1970s DC conflicts), DAVE BERG, BOB ROGERS, more on MAC RABOY from his son, MR. MONSTER, and more! RICH BUCKLER and C.C. BECK covers!

WALLY WOOD biography, DAN ADKINS & BILL PEARSON on Wood, TOR section with 1963 JOE KUBERT interview, ROY THOMAS on creating the ALL-STAR SQUADRON and its 1940s forebears, FCA section with SWAYZE & BECK, MR. MONSTER, JERRY ORDWAY on Shazam!, JERRY DeFUCCIO on the Golden Age, CHIC STONE remembered! ADKINS and KUBERT covers!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JAN001713

(100-page magazine) SOLD OUT (100-page Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JUL002003

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: NOV002267

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: FEB012215

ALTER EGO #9

ALTER EGO #10

ALTER EGO #11

ALTER EGO #12

ALTER EGO #13

JOHN ROMITA interview by ROY THOMAS (with unseen art), Roy’s PROPOSED DREAM PROJECTS that never got published (with a host of great artists), MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING’S life after Superman, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom Panel, FCA section with GEORGE TUSKA, C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, BILL MORRISON, & more! ROMITA and GIORDANO covers!

Who Created the Silver Age Flash? (with KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and SCHWARTZ), DICK AYERS interview (with unseen art), JOHN BROOME remembered, never-seen Golden Age Flash pages, VIN SULLIVAN Magazine Enterprises interview, FCA, interview with FRED GUARDINEER, and MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING! INFANTINO and AYERS covers!

Focuses on TIMELY/MARVEL (interviews and features on SYD SHORES, MICKEY SPILLANE, and VINCE FAGO), and MAGAZINE ENTERPRISES (including JOE CERTA, JOHN BELFI, FRANK BOLLE, BOB POWELL, and FRED MEAGHER), MR. MONSTER on JERRY SIEGEL, DON and MAGGIE THOMPSON interview, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and DON NEWTON!

DC and QUALITY COMICS focus! Quality’s GILL FOX interview, never-seen ’40s PAUL REINMAN Green Lantern story, ROY THOMAS talks to LEN WEIN and RICH BUCKLER about ALL-STAR SQUADRON, MR. MONSTER shows what made WALLY WOOD leave MAD, FCA section with BECK & SWAYZE, & ’65 NEWSWEEK ARTICLE on comics! REINMAN and BILL WARD covers!

1974 panel with JOE SIMON, STAN LEE, FRANK ROBBINS, and ROY THOMAS, ROY and JOHN BUSCEMA on Avengers, 1964 STAN LEE interview, tributes to DON HECK, JOHNNY CRAIG, and GRAY MORROW, Timely alums DAVID GANTZ and DANIEL KEYES, and FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and MIKE MANLEY! Covers by MURPHY ANDERSON and JOE SIMON!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY012450

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JUL012309

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: SEP012273

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: NOV012568

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JAN022737

ALTER EGO #17 Spotlighting LOU FINE (with an overview of his career, and interviews with family members), interview with MURPHY ANDERSON about Fine, ALEX TOTH on Fine, ARNOLD DRAKE interviewed about DEADMAN and DOOM PATROL, MR. MONSTER on the non-EC work of JACK DAVIS and GEORGE EVANS, FINE and LUIS DOMINGUEZ COVERS, FCA and more!

ALTER EGO #14

ALTER EGO #15

ALTER EGO #16

A look at the 1970s JSA revival with CONWAY, LEVITZ, ESTRADA, GIFFEN, MILGROM, and STATON, JERRY ORDWAY on All-Star Squadron, tributes to CRAIG CHASE and DAN DeCARLO, “lost” 1945 issue of All-Star, 1970 interview with LEE ELIAS, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, & JAY DISBROW! MIKE NASSER & MICHAEL GILBERT covers!

JOHN BUSCEMA ISSUE! BUSCEMA interview (with UNSEEN ART), reminiscences by SAL BUSCEMA, STAN LEE, INFANTINO, KUBERT, ORDWAY, FLO STEINBERG, and HERB TRIMPE, ROY THOMAS on 35 years with BIG JOHN, FCA tribute to KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, plus C.C. BECK and MARC SWAYZE, and MR. MONSTER revisits WALLY WOOD! Two BUSCEMA covers!

MARVEL BULLPEN REUNION (BUSCEMA, COLAN, ROMITA, and SEVERIN), memories of the JOHN BUSCEMA SCHOOL, FCA with ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK, and MARC SWAYZE, tribute to CHAD GROTHKOPF, MR. MONSTER on EC COMICS with art by KURTZMAN, DAVIS, and WOOD, and more! Covers by ALEX ROSS and MARIE SEVERIN & RAMONA FRADON!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: FEB022730

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: APR022615

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY022386

ALTER EGO #18

ALTER EGO #19

ALTER EGO #20

STAN GOLDBERG interview, secrets of ’40s Timely, art by KIRBY, DITKO, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, MANEELY, EVERETT, BURGOS, and DeCARLO, spotlight on sci-fi fanzine XERO with the LUPOFFS, OTTO BINDER, DON THOMPSON, ROY THOMAS, BILL SCHELLY, and ROGER EBERT, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD ghosting Flash Gordon! KIRBY and SWAYZE covers!

Spotlight on DICK SPRANG (profile and interview) with unseen art, rare Batman art

by BOB KANE, CHARLES PARIS, SHELLY MOLDOFF, MAX ALLAN COLLINS, JIM MOONEY, CARMINE INFANTINO, and ALEX TOTH, JERRY ROBINSON interviewed about Tomahawk and 1940s cover artist FRED RAY, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD’s Flash Gordon, Part 2!

Timely/Marvel art by SEKOWSKY, SHORES, EVERETT, and BURGOS, secrets behind THE INVADERS with ROY THOMAS, KIRBY, GIL KANE, & ROBBINS, BOB DESCHAMPS interviewed, 1965 NY Comics Con review, panel with FINGER, BINDER, FOX and WEISINGER, MR. MONSTER, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, RABOY, SCHAFFENBERGER, and more! MILGROM and SCHELLY covers!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: AUG022420

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: OCT022884

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: NOV022845

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JUL022370

ALTER EGO #21 The IGER “SHOP” examined, with art by EISNER, FINE, ANDERSON, CRANDALL, BAKER, MESKIN, CARDY, EVANS, BOB KANE, and TUSKA, “SHEENA” section with art by DAVE STEVENS & FRANK BRUNNER, ROY THOMAS on the JSA and All-Star Squadron, more UNSEEN 1946 ALL-STAR ART, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, FCA, and more! DAVE STEVENS and IRWIN HASEN covers!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: DEC023029

ALTER EGO #22

ALTER EGO #23

ALTER EGO #24

ALTER EGO #25

ALTER EGO #26

BILL EVERETT and JOE KUBERT interviewed

by NEAL ADAMS and GIL KANE in 1970, Timely art by BURGOS, SHORES, NODELL, and SEKOWSKY, RUDY LAPICK, ROY THOMAS on Sub-Mariner, with art by EVERETT, COLAN, ANDRU, BUSCEMAs, SEVERINs, and more, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD at EC, ALEX TOTH, and CAPT. MIDNIGHT! EVERETT & BECK covers!

Unseen art from TWO “LOST” 1940s H.G. PETER WONDER WOMAN STORIES (and analysis of “CHARLES MOULTON” scripts), BOB FUJITANI and JOHN ROSENBERGER, VICTOR GORELICK discusses Archie and The Mighty Crusaders, with art by MORROW, BUCKLER, and REINMAN, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD! H.G. PETER and BOB FUJITANI covers!

X-MEN interviews with STAN LEE, DAVE COCKRUM, CHRIS CLAREMONT, ARNOLD DRAKE, JIM SHOOTER, ROY THOMAS, and LEN WEIN, MORT MESKIN profiled by his sons and ALEX TOTH, rare art by JERRY ROBINSON, FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY on Comics Fandom! MESKIN and COCKRUM covers!

JACK COLE remembered by ALEX TOTH, interview with brother DICK COLE and his PLAYBOY colleagues, CHRIS CLAREMONT on the X-Men (with more never-seen art

by DAVE COCKRUM), ROY THOMAS on All-Star Squadron #1 and its ’40s roots (with art by ORDWAY, BUCKLER, MESKIN and MOLDOFF), FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by TOTH and SCHELLY!

JOE SINNOTT interview, IRWIN DONENFELD interview by EVANIER & SCHWARTZ, art by SHUSTER, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, and SWAN, MARK WAID analyzes the first Kryptonite story, JERRY SIEGEL and HARRY DONENFELD, JERRY IGER Shop update, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and KEN BALD! Covers by SINNOTT and WAYNE BORING!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JAN032492

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: FEB032260

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: MAR032534

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: APR032553

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY032543

ALTER EGO #27

ALTER EGO #28

ALTER EGO #29

ALTER EGO #30

ALTER EGO #31

VIN SULLIVAN interview about the early DC days with art by SHUSTER, MOLDOFF, FLESSEL, GUARDINEER, and BURNLEY, MR. MONSTER’s “Lost” KIRBY HULK covers, 1948 NEW YORK COMIC CON with STAN LEE, SIMON & KIRBY, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, HARVEY KURTZMAN, and ROY THOMAS, ALEX TOTH, FCA, and more! Covers by JACK BURNLEY and JACK KIRBY!

Spotlight on JOE MANEELY, with a career overview, remembrance by his daughter and tons of art, Timely/Atlas/Marvel art by ROMITA, EVERETT, SEVERIN, SHORES, KIRBY, and DITKO, STAN LEE on Maneely, LEE AMES interview, FCA with SWAYZE, ISIS, and STEVE SKEATES, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Covers by JOE MANEELY and DON NEWTON!

FRANK BRUNNER interview, BILL EVERETT’S Venus examined by TRINA ROBBINS, Classics Illustrated “What ifs”, LEE/KIRBY/DITKO Marvel prototypes, JOE MANEELY’s monsters, BILL FRACCIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, JOHN BENSON on EC, The Heap by ERNIE SCHROEDER, and FCA! Covers by FRANK BRUNNER and PETE VON SHOLLY!

ALEX ROSS on his love for the JLA, BLACKHAWK/JLA artist DICK DILLIN, the super-heroes of 1940s-1980s France (with art by STEVE RUDE, STEVE BISSETTE, LADRÖNN, and NEAL ADAMS), KIM AAMODT & WALTER GEIER on writing for SIMON & KIRBY, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA! Covers by ALEX ROSS and STEVE RUDE!

DICK AYERS on his 1950s and ’60s work (with tons of Marvel Bullpen art), HARLAN ELLISON’s Marvel Age work examined (with art by BUCKLER, SAL BUSCEMA, and TRIMPE), STAN LEE’S Marvel Prototypes (with art by KIRBY and DITKO), Christmas cards from comics greats, MR. MONSTER, & FCA with SWAYZE and SCHAFFENBERGER! Covers by DICK AYERS and FRED RAY!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JUN032614

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ALTER EGO #32

ALTER EGO #33

ALTER EGO #34

ALTER EGO #35

ALTER EGO #36

Timely artists ALLEN BELLMAN and SAM BURLOCKOFF interviewed, MART NODELL on his Timely years, rare art by BURGOS, EVERETT, and SHORES, MIKE GOLD on the Silver Age (with art by SIMON & KIRBY, SWAN, INFANTINO, KANE, and more), FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more!

Covers by DICK GIORDANO and GIL KANE!

Symposium on MIKE SEKOWSKY by MARK EVANIER, SCOTT SHAW!, et al., with art

by ANDERSON, INFANTINO, and others, PAT (MRS. MIKE) SEKOWSKY and inker VALERIE BARCLAY interviewed, FCA, 1950s Captain Marvel parody by ANDRU and ESPOSITO, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by FRENZ/SINNOTT and FRENZ/BUSCEMA!

Quality Comics interviews with ALEX KOTZKY, AL GRENET, CHUCK CUIDERA, & DICK ARNOLD (son of BUSY ARNOLD), art by COLE, EISNER, FINE, WARD, DILLIN, and KANE, MICHELLE NOLAN on Blackhawk’s jump to DC, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on HARVEY KURTZMAN, & ALEX TOTH on REED CRANDALL! Covers by REED CRANDALL & CHARLES NICHOLAS!

Covers by JOHN ROMITA and AL JAFFEE! LEE, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, & THOMAS on the 1953-55 Timely super-hero revival, with rare art by ROMITA, AYERS, BURGOS, HEATH, EVERETT, LAWRENCE, & POWELL, AL JAFFEE on the 1940s Timely Bullpen (and MAD), FCA, ALEX TOTH on comic art, MR. MONSTER on unpublished 1950s covers, and more!

JOE SIMON on SIMON & KIRBY, CARL BURGOS, and LLOYD JACQUET, JOHN BELL on World War II Canadian heroes, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on Canadian origins of MR. MONSTER, tributes to BOB DESCHAMPS, DON LAWRENCE, & GEORGE WOODBRIDGE, FCA, ALEX TOTH, and ELMER WEXLER interview! Covers by SIMON and GILBERT & RONN SUTTON!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: NOV032695

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ALTER EGO #37

ALTER EGO #38

ALTER EGO #39

ALTER EGO #40

ALTER EGO #41

WILL MURRAY on the 1940 Superman “KMetal” story & PHILIP WYLIE’s GLADIATOR (with art by SHUSTER, SWAN, ADAMS, and BORING), FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and DON NEWTON, SY BARRY interview, art by TOTH, MESKIN, INFANTINO, and ANDERSON, and MICHAEL T. GILBERT interviews AL FELDSTEIN on EC and RAY BRADBURY! Covers by C.C. BECK and WAYNE BORING!

JULIE SCHWARTZ TRIBUTE with HARLAN ELLISON, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, KUBERT, GIELLA, GIORDANO, CARDY, LEVITZ, STAN LEE, WOLFMAN, EVANIER, & ROY THOMAS, never-seen interviews with Julie, FCA with BECK, SCHAFFENBERGER, NEWTON, COCKRUM, OKSNER, FRADON, SWAYZE, and JACKSON BOSTWICK! Covers by INFANTINO and IRWIN HASEN!

Full-issue spotlight on JERRY ROBINSON, with an interview on being BOB KANE’s Batman “ghost”, creating the JOKER and ROBIN, working on VIGILANTE, GREEN HORNET, and ATOMAN, plus never-seen art by Jerry, MESKIN, ROUSSOS, RAY, KIRBY, SPRANG, DITKO, and PARIS! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER on AL FELDSTEIN Part 2, and more! Two JERRY ROBINSON covers!

RUSS HEATH and GIL KANE interviews (with tons of unseen art), the JULIE SCHWARTZ Memorial Service with ELLISON, MOORE, GAIMAN, HASEN, O’NEIL, and LEVITZ, art by INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, NOVICK, DILLIN, SEKOWSKY, KUBERT, GIELLA, ARAGONÉS, FCA, MR. MONSTER and AL FELDSTEIN Part 3, and more! Covers by GIL KANE & RUSS HEATH!

Halloween issue! BERNIE WRIGHTSON on his 1970s FRANKENSTEIN, DICK BRIEFER’S monster, the campy 1960s Frankie, art by KALUTA, BAILY, MANEELY, PLOOG, KUBERT, BRUNNER, BORING, OKSNER, TUSKA, CRANDALL, and SUTTON, FCA #100, EMILIO SQUEGLIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more!

Covers by WRIGHTSON & MARC SWAYZE!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: APR043055

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ALTER EGO #42

ALTER EGO #43

ALTER EGO #44

ALTER EGO #45

ALTER EGO #46

A celebration of DON HECK, WERNER ROTH, and PAUL REINMAN, rare art by KIRBY, DITKO, and AYERS, Hillman and Ziff-Davis remembered by Heap artist ERNIE SCHROEDER, HERB ROGOFF, and WALTER LITTMAN, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and ALEX TOTH! Covers by FASTNER & LARSON and ERNIE SCHROEDER!

Yuletide art by WOOD, SINNOTT, CARDY, BRUNNER, TOTH, NODELL, and others, interviews with Golden Age artists TOM GILL (Lone Ranger) and MORRIS WEISS, exploring 1960s Mexican comics, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Flip covers by GEORGE TUSKA and DAVE STEVENS!

JSA/All-Star Squadron/Infinity Inc. special!

Interviews with KUBERT, HASEN, ANDERSON, ORDWAY, BUCKLER, THOMAS, 1940s Atom writer ARTHUR ADLER, art by TOTH, SEKOWSKY, HASEN, MACHLAN, OKSNER, and INFANTINO, FCA, and MR. MONSTER’S “I Like Ike!” cartoons by BOB KANE, INFANTINO, OKSNER, and BIRO! Wraparound ORDWAY cover!

Interviews with Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and ’40s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art

by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, and AYERS, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, OTTO BINDER’s “lost” Jon Jarl story, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and ALEX TOTH! CREIG FLESSEL cover!

The VERY BEST of the 1960s-70s ALTER EGO! 1969 BILL EVERETT interview, art by BURGOS, GUSTAVSON, SIMON & KIRBY, and others, 1960s gems by DITKO, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, JERRY BAILS, and ROY THOMAS, LOU GLANZMAN interview, tributes to IRV NOVICK and CHRIS REEVE, MR. MONSTER, FCA, TOTH, and more!

Cover by EVERETT and MARIE SEVERIN!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: SEP043043

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ALTER EGO #47

ALTER EGO #48

ALTER EGO #49

Spotlights MATT BAKER, Golden Age cheesecake artist of PHANTOM LADY! Career overview, interviews with BAKER’s half-brother and nephew, art from AL FELDSTEIN, VINCE COLLETTA, ARTHUR PEDDY, JACK KAMEN and others, FCA, BILL SCHELLY talks to comic-book-seller (and fan) BUD PLANT, MR. MONSTER on missing AL WILLIAMSON art, and ALEX TOTH!

WILL EISNER discusses Eisner & Iger’s Shop and BUSY ARNOLD’s ’40s Quality Comics, art by FINE, CRANDALL, COLE, POWELL, and CARDY, EISNER tributes by STAN LEE, GENE COLAN, & others, interviews with ’40s Quality artist VERN HENKEL and CHUCK MAZOUJIAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER on EISNER’s Wonder Man, ALEX TOTH, and more with BUD PLANT! EISNER cover!

Spotlights CARL BURGOS! Interview with daughter SUE BURGOS, art by BURGOS, BILL EVERETT, MIKE SEKOWSKY, ED ASCHE, and DICK AYERS, unused 1941 Timely cover layouts, the 1957 Atlas Implosion examined, MANNY STALLMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER and more! New cover by MARK SPARACIO, from an unused 1941 layout by CARL BURGOS!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: FEB053220

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: MAR053331

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: APR053287

ALTER EGO #50 ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics (AVENGERS, X-MEN, CONAN, ALL-STAR SQUADRON, INFINITY INC.), with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also FCA, & MR. MONSTER on ROY’s letters to GARDNER FOX! Flip-covers by BUSCEMA/ KIRBY/ALCALA and JERRY ORDWAY!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY053172

ALTER EGO #54 ALTER EGO #51

ALTER EGO #52

ALTER EGO #53

Golden Age Batman artist/BOB KANE ghost LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ interviewed, Batman art by JERRY ROBINSON, DICK SPRANG, SHELDON MOLDOFF, WIN MORTIMER, JIM MOONEY, and others, the Golden and Silver Ages of AUSTRALIAN SUPER-HEROES, Mad artist DAVE BERG interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WILL EISNER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

JOE GIELLA on the Silver Age at DC, the Golden Age at Marvel, and JULIE SCHWARTZ, with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, SEKOWSKY, SWAN, DILLIN, MOLDOFF, GIACOIA, SCHAFFENBERGER, and others, JAY SCOTT PIKE on STAN LEE and CHARLES BIRO, MARTIN THALL interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! GIELLA cover!

GIORDANO and THOMAS on STOKER’S DRACULA, never-seen DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strip, MIKE ESPOSITO on his work with ROSS ANDRU, art by COLAN, WRIGHTSON, MIGNOLA, BRUNNER, BISSETTE, KALUTA, HEATH, MANEELY, EVERETT, DITKO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, BILL SCHELLY, ALEX TOTH, and MR. MONSTER! Cover by GIORDANO!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 Diamond Order Code: JUN053345

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: JUL053293

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: AUG053328

MIKE ESPOSITO on DC and Marvel, ROBERT KANIGHER on the creation of Metal Men and Sgt. Rock (with comments

by JOE KUBERT and BOB HANEY), art by ANDRU, INFANTINO, KIRBY, SEVERIN, WINDSOR-SMITH, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, TRIMPE, GIL KANE, and others, plus FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! ESPOSITO cover!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: SEP053301

ALTER EGO #56

ALTER EGO #57

ALTER EGO #58

Interviews with Superman creators SIEGEL & SHUSTER, Golden/Silver Age DC production guru JACK ADLER interviewed, NEAL ADAMS and radio/TV iconoclast (and comics fan) HOWARD STERN on Adler and his amazing career, art by CURT SWAN, WAYNE BORING, and AL PLASTINO, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, and more! NEAL ADAMS cover!

Issue-by-issue index of Timely/Atlas superhero stories by MICHELLE NOLAN, art by SIMON & KIRBY, EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, SEKOWSKY, SHORES, SCHOMBURG, MANEELY, and SEVERIN, GENE COLAN and ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely super-heroes, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY! Cover

by JACK KIRBY and PETE VON SHOLLY!

GERRY CONWAY and ROY THOMAS on their ’80s screenplay for “The X-Men Movie That Never Was!”with art by COCKRUM, ADAMS, BUSCEMA, BYRNE, GIL KANE, KIRBY, HECK, and LIEBER, Atlas artist VIC CARRABOTTA interview, ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely bullpen, FCA, 1966 panel on 1950s EC Comics, and MR. MONSTER! MARK SPARACIO/GIL KANE cover!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: DEC053401

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(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAR063545

ALTER EGO #55 JACK and OTTO BINDER, KEN BALD, VIC DOWD, and BOB BOYAJIAN interviewed, FCA with SWAYZE and EMILIO SQUEGLIO, rare art by BECK, WARD, & SCHAFFENBERGER, Christmas Card Art from CRANDALL, SINNOTT, HEATH, MOONEY, and CARDY, 1943 Pin-Up Calendar (with ’40s movie stars as superheroines), ALEX TOTH, and more! ALEX ROSS and ALEX WRIGHT covers!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: OCT053396

ALTER EGO #59 Special issue on Batman and Superman in the Golden and Silver Ages, ARTHUR SUYDAM interview, NEAL ADAMS on 1960s/70s DC, SHELLY MOLDOFF, AL PLASTINO, Golden Age artist FRAN (Doll Man) MATERA and VIC CARRABOTTA interviewed, SIEGEL & SHUSTER, RUSS MANNING, FCA, MR. MONSTER, SUYDAM cover, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: APR063474

ALTER EGO #60

ALTER EGO #61

ALTER EGO #62

Celebrates 50 years since SHOWCASE #4!

FLASH interviews with SCHWARTZ, KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and BROOME, Golden Age artist TONY DiPRETA, 1966 panel with NORDLING, BINDER, and LARRY IVIE, FCA, MR. MONSTER, never-before-published color Flash cover by CARMINE INFANTINO, and more!

History of the AMERICAN COMICS GROUP (1946 to 1967)—including its roots in the Golden Age SANGOR ART SHOP and STANDARD/NEDOR comics! Art by MESKIN, ROBINSON, WILLIAMSON, FRAZETTA, SCHAFFENBERGER, & BUSCEMA, ACG writer/editor RICHARD HUGHES, plus AL HARTLEY interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! GIORDANO cover!

HAPPY HAUNTED HALLOWEEN ISSUE, featuring: MIKE PLOOG and RUDY PALAIS on their horror-comics work! AL WILLIAMSON on his work for the American Comics Group—plus more on ACG horror comics! Rare DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strips! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on the 1966 KalerCon, a new PLOOG cover—and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY063496

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: JUN063522

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: AUG063690

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ALTER EGO #63

ALTER EGO #64

ALTER EGO #65

ALTER EGO #66

ALTER EGO #67

Tribute to ALEX TOTH! Never-before-seen interview with tons of TOTH art, including sketches he sent to friends! Articles about Toth by TERRY AUSTIN, JIM AMASH, SY BARRY, JOE KUBERT, LOU SAYRE SCHWARTZ, IRWIN HASEN, JOHN WORKMAN, and others! Plus illustrated Christmas cards by comics pros, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

Fawcett Favorites! Issue-by-issue analysis of BINDER & BECK’s 1943-45 “The Monster Society of Evil!” serial, double-size FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, EMILIO SQUEGLIO, C.C. BECK, MAC RABOY, and others! Interview with MARTIN FILCHOCK, Golden Age artist for Centaur Comics! Plus MR. MONSTER, DON NEWTON cover, plus a FREE 1943 MARVEL CALENDAR!

NICK CARDY interviewed on his Golden & Silver Age work (with CARDY art), plus art

by WILL EISNER, NEAL ADAMS, CARMINE INFANTINO, JIM APARO, RAMONA FRADON, CURT SWAN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, and others, tributes to ERNIE SCHROEDER and DAVE COCKRUM, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, new CARDY COVER, and more!

Spotlight on BOB POWELL, the artist who drew Daredevil, Sub-Mariner, Sheena, The Avenger, The Hulk, Giant-Man, and others, plus art by WALLY WOOD, HOWARD NOSTRAND, DICK AYERS, SIMON & KIRBY, MARTIN GOODMAN’s Magazine Management, and others! FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

Interview with BOB OKSNER, artist of Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Angel and the Ape, Leave It to Binky, Shazam!, and more, plus art and artifacts by SHELLY MAYER, IRWIN HASEN, LEE ELIAS, C.C. BECK, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, JULIE SCHWARTZ, etc., FCA with MARC SWAYZE & C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on BOB POWELL Part II, and more!

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ALTER EGO #68

ALTER EGO #69

ALTER EGO #70

ALTER EGO #71

ALTER EGO #72

Tribute to JERRY BAILS—Father of Comics Fandom and founder of Alter Ego! Cover by GEORGE PÉREZ, plus art by JOE KUBERT, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, DICK DILLIN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JERRY ORDWAY, JOE STATON, JACK KIRBY, and others! Plus STEVE DITKO’s notes to STAN LEE for a 1965 Dr. Strange story! And ROY reveals secrets behind Marvel’s STAR WARS comic!

PAUL NORRIS drew AQUAMAN first, in 1941—and RAMONA FRADON was the hero’s ultimate Golden Age artist. But both drew other things as well, and both are interviewed in this landmark issue—along with a pocket history of Aquaman! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more!

Cover painted by JOHN WATSON, from a breathtaking illo by RAMONA FRADON!

Spotlight on ROY THOMAS’ 1970s stint as Marvel’s editor-in-chief and major writer, plus art and reminiscences of GIL KANE, BOTH BUSCEMAS, ADAMS, ROMITA, CHAYKIN, BRUNNER, PLOOG, EVERETT, WRIGHTSON, PÉREZ, ROBBINS, BARRY SMITH, STAN LEE and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, a new GENE COLAN cover, plus an homage to artist LILY RENÉE!

Represents THE GREAT CANADIAN COMIC BOOKS, the long out-of-print 1970s book

by MICHAEL HIRSH and PATRICK LOUBERT, with rare art of such heroes as Mr. Monster, Nelvana, Thunderfist, and others, plus new INVADERS art by JOHN BYRNE, MIKE GRELL, RON LIM, and more, plus a new cover by GEORGE FREEMAN, from a layout by JACK KIRBY!

SCOTT SHAW! and ROY THOMAS on the creation of Captain Carrot, art & artifacts

by RICK HOBERG, STAN GOLDBERG, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JOHN COSTANZA, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, CAROL LAY, and others, interview with DICK ROCKWELL, Golden Age artist and 36-year ghost artist on MILTON CANIFF’s Steve Canyon! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAR073852

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ALTER EGO #73

ALTER EGO #75

ALTER EGO #76

FRANK BRUNNER on drawing Dr. Strange, interviews with CHARLES BIRO and his daughters, interview with publisher ROBERT GERSON about his 1970s horror comic Reality, art by BERNIE WRIGHTSON, GRAHAM INGELS, HOWARD CHAYKIN, MICHAEL W. KALUTA, JEFF JONES, and others FCA, MR. MONSTER, a FREE DRAW! #15! PREVIEW, and more!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL—with an ALEX ROSS cover! Double-size FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with P.C. HAMERLINCK on the many “Captains Marvel” over the years, unseen Shazam! proposal by ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK on “The Death of a Legend!”, MARC SWAYZE, interview with Golden Age artist MARV LEVY, MR. MONSTER, and more!

JOE SIMON SPECIAL! In-depth SIMON interview by JIM AMASH, with neverbefore-revealed secrets behind the creation of Captain America, Fighting American, Stuntman, Adventures of The Fly, Sick magazine and more, art by JACK KIRBY, BOB POWELL, AL WILLIAMSON, JERRY GRANDENETTI, GEORGE TUSKA, and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: NOV073947

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ALTER EGO #74

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STAN LEE SPECIAL in honor of his 85th birthday, with a cover by JACK KIRBY, classic (and virtually unseen) interviews with Stan, tributes, and tons of rare and unseen art by KIRBY, ROMITA, the brothers BUSCEMA, DITKO, COLAN, HECK, AYERS, MANEELY, SHORES, EVERETT, BURGOS, KANE, the SEVERIN siblings—plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: OCT073927

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ALTER EGO #78 ALTER EGO #77 ST. JOHN ISSUE! Golden Age Tor cover by JOE KUBERT, KEN QUATTRO relates the full legend of St. John Publishing, art by KUBERT, NORMAN MAURER, MATT BAKER, LILY RENEE, BOB LUBBERS, RUBEN MOREIRA, RALPH MAYO, AL FAGO, special reminiscences of ARNOLD DRAKE, Golden Age artist TOM SAWYER interviewed, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAR084108

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DAVE COCKRUM TRIBUTE! Great rare XMen cover, Cockrum tributes from contemporaries and colleagues, and an interview with PATY COCKRUM on Dave’s life and legacy on The Legion of Super-Heroes, The X-Men, Star-Jammers, & more! Plus an interview with 1950s Timely/Marvel artist MARION SITTON on his own incredible career and his Golden Age contemporaries!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: APR084249

ALTER EGO #79

ALTER EGO #80

SUPERMAN & HIS CREATORS! New cover

by MICHAEL GOLDEN, exclusive and revealing interview with JOE SHUSTER’s sister, JEAN SHUSTER PEAVEY—MIKE W. BARR on Superman the detective— DWIGHT DECKER on the Man of Steel & Hitler’s Third Reich—plus art by WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, NEAL ADAMS, GIL KANE, and others!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY COMICS! Learn about Crom the Barbarian, Viking Prince, Nightmaster, Kull, Red Sonja, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser, Beowulf, Warlord, Dagar the Invincible, and more, with art by FRAZETTA, SMITH, BUSCEMA, KANE, WRIGHTSON, PLOOG, THORNE, BRUNNER, and more!

New cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: MAY084245

(100-page magazine) $6.95 Diamond Order Code: JUN084380

NEW STUFF FROM TWOMORROWS!

BACK ISSUE #32

ROUGH STUFF #11

WRITE NOW! #19

DRAW! #17

BRICKJOURNAL #4

“Tech, Data, and Hardware!” The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, WEIN, WOLFMAN, and GREENBERGER on DC’s Who’s Who, SAVIUK, STATON, and VAN SCIVER on Drawing Green Lantern, ED HANNIGAN Art Gallery, history of Rom: Spaceknight, story of BILL MANTLO, Dial H for Hero, Richie Rich’s Inventions, and a Spider-Mobile schematic cover by ELIOT BROWN and DUSTY ABELL!

New cover by GREG HORN, plus interviews with HORN and TOM YEATES on how they produce their stellar work. Also features on GENE HA, JIMMY CHEUNG, and MIKE PERKINS, showing their sketchwork and commentary, tips on collecting sketches and commissions from artists, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work, and more!

DARK KNIGHT and SPIRIT executive producer MICHAEL USLAN on the writing process for films, Dennis O’Neil on adapting THE DARK KNIGHT movie to novel form, BRIAN BENDIS script and LEINIL YU pencils from Marvel’s SECRET INVASION #1, MAX ALAN COLLINS, MILLAR script and HITCH pencils from their run on FF, SLOTT script and McNIVEN pencils from BRAND NEW DAY, and more!

Go behind the pages of the hit series of graphic novels starring Scott Pilgrim with his creator and artist, BRYAN LEE O’MALLEY, to see how he creates the acclaimed series! Then, learn how B.P.R.D.’s GUY DAVIS works on the series, plus more Comic Art Bootcamp: Learning from The Great Cartoonists by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, reviews, and more!

FULL-COLOR issue features top LEGO BUILDERS including BREANN SLEDGE (BIONICLE), Event Reports from gatherings such as BRICKFAIR (Washington, DC) and BRICKCON (Seattle, Washington), plus reports on new MINDSTORMS PROJECTS, STEP-BY-STEP BUILDING INSTRUCTIONS and TECHNIQUES for all skill levels, NEW SET REVIEWS, and editor JOE MENO shows how to build a robotic LEGO Wall-E!TM

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: NOV084404 Now shipping

(100-page magazine) $6.95 US Diamond Order Code: NOV084369

KIRBY COLLECTOR #51 Bombastic EVERYTHING GOES issue, with a wealth of great submissions that couldn’t be pigeonholed into a “theme” issue!

Includes a rare KIRBY interview, new interviews with JIM LEE and ADAM HUGHES, MARK EVANIER’s column, huge pencil art galleries, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, two COLOR UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS, and more!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 Now shipping

COLLECTED KIRBY COLLECTOR VOL. 6 Reprints KIRBY COLLECTOR #23-26 plus over 30 pieces of Kirby art never published!

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490038 Now shipping

EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE:

Indispensable Edition The definitive autobiographical book on ALAN MOORE in a NEW EXPANDED AND UPDATED VERSION! Includes new interviews covering his work since the original 2003 edition of the book. From SWAMP THING, V FOR VENDETTA, WATCHMEN, and LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN and beyond – all are discussed by Alan. Plus, there’s RARE STRIPS, SCRIPTS, ARTWORK, and PHOTOGRAPHS, tribute comic strips by NEIL GAIMAN and other of Moore’s closest collaborators, a COLOR SECTION featuring the RARE MOORE STORY “The Riddle of the Recalcitrant Refuse” (newly remastered, and starring MR. MONSTER), and more! Edited by GEORGE KHOURY, with a cover by DAVE McKEAN! (240-page trade paperback) $29.95 US ISBN: 9781605490090 Diamond Order Code: JAN088702 Ships December 2008

Go to www.twomorrows.com for FULL-COLOR downloadable PDF versions of our magazines for only $2.95! Subscribers to the print edition get the digital edition FREE, weeks before it hits stores!

(80-page magazine) $6.95 Now shipping

HAWKMAN COMPANION Behind a fabulous CLIFF CHIANG cover, this collection documents the character’s history, and contains interviews and commentary from many who have helped Hawkman soar through the ages, including JOE KUBERT, GEOFF JOHNS, SHELLY MOLDOFF, TIMOTHY TRUMAN, JUSTIN GRAY, JIMMY PALMIOTTI, RAGS MORALES, STEPHEN SADOWSKI, DON KRAMER, BEN RAAB, TONY ISABELLA, DAN JURGENS, ROY THOMAS, STEVE LIEBER, MURPHY ANDERSON and many other top comics creators. Also included is a copious image parade, profiles on the Hawks through the ages, as well as their allies and adversaries, and a timeline of Hawkman's storied existence throughout the DC Comics Universe. With insight into the character and the creators who made him what he is, the HAWKMAN COMPANION is certain to please any Hawkfan.

Written by DOUG ZAWISZA.

Media Mail

(80-page magazine) $8.95 US (Digital Edition) $3.95

BRICKJOURNAL COMPENDIUM, VOLUME 1 FULL-COLOR! Compiles the first three digital-only issues of BRICKJOURNAL, the ultimate magazine for LEGO enthusiasts of all ages! Features interviews with LEGO car builder ZACHARY SWEIGART, JØRGEN VIG KNUDSTORP (CEO of LEGO Systems, Inc.), Mecha builders BRYCE McLONE and JEFF RANJO, paraplegic LEGO builder SCOTT WARFIELD, BOB CARNEY (LEGO castle builder extraordinaire) and RALPH SAVELSBURG (LEGO plane builder), REVEREND BRENDAN POWELL SMITH (author of the LEGO version of the Bible), NASA Astronaut Trainer KIETH JOHNSON, JAKE McKEE (Global Community Director for The LEGO Group), features on the BIONICLE universe, how to make your own custom bricks, instructions & techniques, and more!

(256-page trade paperback) $39.95 ISBN: 9781893905979 Diamond Order Code: FEB084083 Now shipping

(208-page trade paperback) $24.95 ISBN: 9781893905931 Now shipping

2009 SUBSCRIPTION RATES:

(80-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 US • (Digital Edition) $2.95 Ships Winter 2008

MODERN MASTERS VOLUME 19: MIKE PLOOG

(120-page trade paperback with COLOR) $14.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490076 Now shipping

VOLUME 20: KYLE BAKER

(120-page trade paperback with COLOR) $14.95 US • ISBN: 9781605490083 Ships February 2008 Each features an extensive, career-spanning interview lavishly illustrated with rare art from the artist’s files, plus huge sketchbook section, including unseen and unused art!

1st Class Canada 1st Class Priority US Intl.

Intl.

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR (4 issues)

$50

$60

$60

$84

$136

BACK ISSUE! (6 issues)

$44

$60

$70

$105

$115

DRAW! (4 issues)

$30

$40

$47

$70

$77

ALTER EGO (12 issues) Six-issue subs are half-price!

$88

$120

$140

$210

$230

BRICKJOURNAL (4 issues)

$38

$48

$55

$78

$85

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