Issuu

Roy Thomas’ Pugnacious Comics Fanzine

JOE GIELLA THE FELLA WHO INKED

DC’S SILVER AGE!

(AND SOME GOLDEN AGE, TOO!)

6.95

In the USA

No.52 September 2005

ALSO:

JAY SCOTT PIKE &

MARTIN THALL

PLUS: PLUS:

Vol. 3, No. 52 / September 2005

™

Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artist Joe Giella

Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to:

Heidi Amash Michael Ambrose Ger Apeldoorn Bob Bailey Mike W. Barr Tom Batiuk Alberto Becattini Philippe Benoist Bill Black Dominic Bongo Ray Bottorff, Jr. Steve Brumbaugh Jerry K. Boyd Bob Cherry Shaun Clancy James Clink Dwight Decker Gerry Desrosiers Mark Evanier Al Dellinges Roger Dicken & Wendy Hunt Michael Feldman Shane Foley Carl Gafford John Gentil Frank Giella Joe Giella Janet Gilbert Matt Gore Ron Goulart Arnie Grieves George Hagenauer Jennifer Hamerlinck Paul Handler Mark Heike Dave Herring Jonathan Ingersoll Glen Johnson Henry R. Kajawa Sam Kujava

Thomas C. Lammers Mark Luebker Boyd Magers Dan Makara Bob Maison Joe Marek Sheldon Moldoff Matt Moring Frank Motler Mark Muller Jose Carlos Neves Jerry Ordway Jake Oster John G. Pierce Jay Scott Pike Donald A. Rex Emir Ribeiro Ethan Roberts Herb Rogoff Steven Rowe Luiz Antonio Sampaio Mark Shainblum Robin Snyder Joe Staton Marc Swayze Martin Thall Greg Theakston Dann Thomas Alex Toth Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Delmo Walters, Jr. Hames Ware Robert Wiener Tom Wimbish Jackie WolfEnrione Rodrigo M. Zeidan

This issue is dedicated to the memories of

Paul Cassidy & Al Kurzrok

Contents Writer/Editorial: ÒForHeÕsA Jolly Good GiellaÉÓ . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine WineÑHe Gets Better With Age!Ó. . . . . . . 3 The man who inked DC’s Silver Age, and lots more besides—interviewed by Jim Amash.

ÒComicArtists Could Draw Better Than Anybody in the World!Ó.. . 33 1950s-70s artist Jay Scott Pike speaks with Jim A. about his years at Marvel & DC.

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó.. . 46 Martin Thall tells Mr. A. all about drawing comics in the 1940s and ’50s.

Comic Crypt: Remembering Will – Part Three . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Michael T. Gilbert’s long association with Will Eisner—and The Spirit.

ÒDoThe Best Damn Work PossibleÓ.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 Alex Toth defines the ever-shifting goals of 1940s comic book artists.

ATalkWithWriter,Educator,&ComicsFanaticGlenJohnson:PartTwo. 65 A prominent 1960s comics fan talks to Bill Schelly about Russ Manning and more.

re: [comments, correspondence, & corrections]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 In Memoriam: Al Kurzrok & Paul Cassidy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78

FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #110 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 81 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze, some Fawcett-to-Charlton footnotes, and a Brazilian encounter between Captain Marvel & The Human Torch!

About Our Cover: Jumpin’ Joe Giella drew this brand new cover especially for this issue of Alter Ego, spotlighting the three DC super-heroes with which he’s most closely identified, and a trio of their most dastardly enemies. For the full story behind this knockout illo, see p. 19—and to learn who christened him “Jumpin’ Joe Giella,” turn to p. 28. Three guesses, and the first two don’t count! [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Above: And thanks to Joe yet again, for sending us this splendid illo of the hero he says he most enjoyed drawing (or even just inking). [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; Batman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, N C 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

“For He’s A Jolly Good Giella...” A

ctually, despite the irresistible pun above (well, irresistible to me, anyway), this issue is a triple-decker in terms of interviews, covering a wide spectrum of comics from the 1940s through at least the 1970s.

When Jim Amash and I confer by phone about all the material that’s stacking up in our drawers and PC files for Alter Ego—a considerable portion of which, of course, consists of the great interviews he does with comic book artisans of the Golden and Silver Ages—we occasionally get just this side of depressed when we think about how long some of it has sat on the cyberspace shelf, awaiting a berth in an actual issue of the mag. Recently we decided that, this month, along with an alreadyscheduled long interview with inking legend Joe Giella, we’d see if we could squeeze in a couple of shorter confabs, as well. Since so much of Joe’s career is bound up with DC Comics, from the Golden Age through the Silver and Bronze (whatever precisely that is), despite his earlier and later work for Marvel, we wanted to complement his interview with a pair of shorter ones, featuring folks more identified with other companies and characters. Jay Scott Pike certainly fit the bill—for, even though he became a mainstay of DC’s romance department in the 1960s, his well-crafted work for Timely/Marvel’s adventure titles in the 1950s particularly

intrigued us. Besides which, there was that offbeat “Dolphin” one-shot he wrote and drew for DC in the late 1960s, whose circumstances are related herein. And Martin Thall spent most of his decade in the comics field working for just about everybody except DC, and likewise has some great yarns to spin. So settle back and enjoy a well-rounded issue. DC—Timely/Marvel— Classics Illustrated—Hillman—ACG—Lev Gleason—MikeRoss—even Fawcett (and not just in the always-fascinating FCA section, either)— you’ll learn something about all those four-color dream factories, and the artists and writers and editors who kept them humming. All that—plus Bill Schelly talking to 1960s comics fan Glen Johnson about Russ Manning, Pete Morisi, et al.—Michael T. Gilbert’s visit with Will Eisner—and letters from talents as diverse as Alex Toth and Shelly (“Hawkman”) Moldoff—should make this issue of A/E worth any comic fan’s money. Okay, so maybe we had to start asking you for $1 more of it per issue… but we’re determined to earn it! And the subscription price hasn’t gone up a penny! Bestest,

COMING IN OCTOBER

DRACULA! FRANKENSTEIN! MIKE ESPOSITO! It’s Our HELLZAPOPPIN’ HALLOWEEN ISSUE!

• Direful all-new DICK GIORDANO Dracula cover! • Three Decades of Dracula—and Counting! Artist DICK GIORDANO, writer ROY THOMAS, & editor MARK BEAZLEY rap about the 1974-2005 dark genesis of Marvel’s undead Halloween hit Stoker’s Dracula! With behind-the-scenes stories and art! • DICK BRIEFER’s funny Frankenstein of the 1950s! A never-before-seen completelyillustrated story from that awesome artist’s proposed newspaper strip! • Our Gallery of Gruesomeness! A hunk of Halloween comic art by GENE COLAN, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, MIKE MIGNOLA, FRANK BRUNNER, STEVE BISSETTE, MICHAEL W. KALUTA, RUSS HEATH, JOE MANEELY, BILL EVERETT, STEVE DITKO, ERNIE SCHROEDER, ESTEBAN MAROTO, ALFREDO ALCALA, and others! • Fabled Golden/Silver Age inker MIKE ESPOSITO on his 1940s-50s work with peerless partner ROSS ANDRU on Mr. Mystery, Mr. Universe, Get Lost, Up Your Nose, etc.— with more amazing anecdotes than you can shake a Styx at—in the first part of a 2-tier interview by JIM AMASH! • Plus—FCA with MARC SWAYZE, JERRY DeFUCCIO, et al.—BILL SCHELLY on “1966— the Year of the Three Comicons!”—MICHAEL T. GILBERT’s Comic Crypt on Little Lulu (pretty scary, huh, kids?)—& MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS

SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $60 Standar d, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewher e: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail). NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom. TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • F AX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • w ww.twomorrows.com

“JOE GIELLA Is Like Fine Wine – He Gets Better With Age!” The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver AgeÑ& Part Of The Golden Age, To Boot! Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

his year marks Joe Giella’s 60th in the comic book industry— and we want to offer our congratulations to him (and to the industry) right up front! Joe was one of the most important inkers of DC Comics’ Silver Age. Joe’s slick, clean line graced the graphite etchings of many great pencilers, from Alex Toth to Carmine Infantino, Mike Sekowsky, Gil Kane, and beyond. Luckily for us, Joe tells us about the people he inked as well as what their pencil work was like—and the editors he worked for. From Hillman to Timely/Marvel to DC to his newspaper strip work on Flash Gordon, The Phantom, Batman, and Mary Worth, we also find out about Joe’s other non-comics work, showing just how diverse his talents run. There’s a lot to the Joe Giella story, and we’ve tried to cover the bases as best we could. Joe’s been long overdue for coverage in Alter Ego, and thanks to Berndt Toast Gang buddy Stan Goldberg (who’s helped me out more times than I can count), we’re finally able to remedy that situation. Thanks for sharing, fellas—and a special thanks to Joe for delineating some of the best DC stories of my childhood—and for being a good friend. —Jim.

ÒYouÕll Never Make A Living Doing Artwork!Ó JIM AMASH: Okay, Joe—you get to answer my usual first questions. When and where were you born, and when did you know you wanted to be an artist? JOE GIELLA: I was born June 27, 1928, in Manhattan, New York. I have three brothers and a sister, and I was the oldest. My love for art began in the late 1930s, when I was about 13 years old. We didn’t have any drawing pads at the time, so I’d draw on anything I could get my hands on. My mother would come home from the grocery store, and I’d tear apart the bags and draw on both sides of them. I would draw everything—I’d doodle cartoons, you name it. And of course, my teachers were constantly chastising me because I would sketch all over my books, and my parents were notified many times. I just liked to draw! I was influenced by Hal Foster’s Prince Valiant, Tarzan, and Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon. I was also reading comic books at the time,

Joe Giella & Friends (Left:) Joe (in light jacket and dark shirt) hangs out a few years back with (l. to r.) ÒArchieÓartist Joe Edwards, DC editor Julie Schwartz, and JoeÕsson Frank. (Right:) Joe must like these guys, too, Õcausehe keeps drawing Õem!We suspect you may recognize them. [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

and I wish my mother had kept some of them. [laughs] The Batman was my favorite—I felt he had the best-looking costume—but I really liked the Timely Comics characters: Captain America, The Human Torch, and Sub-Mariner. JA: Why did you prefer them? GIELLA: As a kid, you fantasize about being The Human Torch or Sub-Mariner... you feel like you’re that character. You live within that character. I couldn’t wait for the issues to come out. I loved those characters. JA: So who were some of your classmates at the School of Industrial Arts that we would remember today? GIELLA: Well, Sy Barry—Tony Bennett the singer, who lived on my block—Al Scaduto—Emilio Squeglio—Paul Winchell, the ventriloquist—and Rudy LaPick. Rudy had a great sense of humor, but I didn’t

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

The Marvel Mystery Tour ÒAs a kid, you fantasize about being The Human Torch or Sub-Mariner,Ó Joe recalls. He was eleven when The Human Torch roasted a police carÕstires in Marvel Mystery Comics #2 (Dec. 1939), and when Prince Namor commandeered the Statue of Liberty in #7 (May 1940)Ñwith art and story by creators Carl Burgos and Bill Everett, respectively. ThatÕswhat we call getting in on the ground floor! Thanks to Robert Wiener for beautiful photocopies of the former page; the latter is reproduced from photocopies of the original art. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

hang out much with him. Tony Bennett—his real name is Anthony deBennedetto—we used to hang out with him on Ditmars Boulevard in Astoria. We used to buy him hot dogs. Ditmars was the last stop in Astoria on the IRT line, and that’s where we hung out. I never met Paul Winchell personally. He was a few years ahead of us at the School of Industrial Arts. So were Joe Kubert and Norman Maurer. Later, in the late ’40s, I went to the Art Students League with Kubert and a fella called Mike Sekowsky. An interesting story about Sekowsky: the instructor is going around the class, and comes to me to critique my drawing and offer his advice— then he goes to Kubert and helps him. Finally he comes to Mike Sekowsky and says, “What the heck is that?” Mike had completely ignored the model and had drawn a comic book figure. The instructor couldn’t believe it. Mike was very insulted, and never came back. John Romita and Les Zakarin also went to the school, but they didn’t hang out with our group. JA: Where did you get your start in comics? GIELLA: My first job was a freelance assignment for Ed Cronin at Hillman Publications. I penciled and inked a humor feature called “Captain Codfish.” I was 17 or 18. We were having problems at home

and I was the oldest, so I left high school three months before I would have graduated. Ed Cronin was a very nice gentleman; he spent a lot of time coaching me through my first job. I was a little nervous, but he put me at ease, and by the time I left Hillman, I felt pretty confident. I was concerned about the deadline, but he said, “Take your time, there’s no problem.” I only did that one job for Hillman, because I was really looking for a steady assignment with a weekly paycheck. Freelance assignments are sporadic, and you never know when you’re going to get your next job. My father was not too happy about my decision to be an artist. He thought I would become a city worker like most of my family—a cop, or fireman, or sanitation worker—for security reasons, and the beautiful pensions they get. I broke the family tradition by becoming an artist, you see. He couldn’t understand that, so for a while we were on the outs: “You’ll never make a living doing artwork!” But let me tell you, I helped save that house; I really did. Eventually, he realized how serious I was about art, and then he supported me. There was a period after Hillman Publications when I commuted by bus from Astoria to Englewood, New Jersey, to work on “Captain Marvel” with C. C. Beck and Pete Costanza, though I never met them. I did meet artist Nick Zuraw there, who I later worked with at Timely.

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

I also joined the Naval Reserves in 1948, when I was 17 or 18 years old. This was right before the Korean War broke out, and I can remember everybody saying, “Where the hell’s Korea?” We joined the Naval Reserves because we were crazy: we wanted to visit different countries. Each year, we’d go on a two-week trip, or a three-month trip. Then the war broke out, and wow, everything changed. There we were doing picket duty, looking for submarines, and going crazy worrying. We were in Puerto Rico the year before, and Cuba, when Battista was there. I was still able to do comics because, in the reserves, we’d go out on an annual cruise for two or three weeks, then come back to our regular jobs. I’d just take a sabbatical from work for the amount of time that I had to serve. I stayed in the reserves for eight years. We were on active duty during each cruise, but I never had to do any fighting.

ÒAllOf A Sudden, Mike Sekowsky Walked Into The RoomÓ JA: How did you get to Fawcett? GIELLA: I didn’t work on staff at Fawcett; any work I did for them was in a freelance capacity. I recall that they were sticklers for drawing Captain Marvel in C. C. Beck’s style. I was mainly inking, but probably doing a little penciling too. You’d have the style guide right there on your desk, and that head had to be exactly the way they wanted it. I only worked there for a short spell, maybe a couple of months,

Sekowsky By Winiarski? Artist Mike Sekowsky was caricatured (by fellow bullpenner Ed Winiarski?) in a mid-1940s Timely humor comic. In addition to drawing virtually every 1940s genre at Timely/Marvel, in late 1959 he became the original penciler of DCÕsÒJustice League of America.Ó Thanks to Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

because I wanted something closer to home. Commuting by bus to Beck and Costanza’s studio in Englewood was a trip and a half. That’s why I made an appointment at Timely Comics, which was either in 1946 or ’47. The very first assignment that Stan gave me was a freelance job. I was looking for a staff job, but they’d test you out first to make sure they liked your work, and then they’d throw you in the bullpen. It was terrific training for a young artist, because you would do a little of everything: penciling, inking, coloring, a little lettering. It really was a great experience. Anyway, Stan gave me my first assignment, which was a crime story—probably a ten-pager—penciled by Mike Sekowsky. I took the story home, and guess what? I lost it on the train. Nobody in my family—myself, my father, mother, and brothers—nobody slept that night, because we figured that was the end of the job. The next day, I went in and told Stan about it, and he hit the ceiling. He called the IRT and BMT line subways, and no luck. Then he called in Robbie Solomon, who was the production manager, but he couldn’t help, either. And I thought that would be it for me at Timely. All of a sudden, Mike Sekowsky walked into the room. I’d never met him before, and didn’t even know that he’d penciled the job. Mike said, “Don’t worry about it, Stan. I’ll take care of the kid.” Mike must have recognized I had an urgent need for this job, so he re-penciled the story, and I inked it. Stan accepted it and gave me a staff position. I walked up to Mike and said, “Mike, I can’t pay you back right now, but I’ll take a little bit out of my check every week to pay you back.” Mike said, “No no no, forget about it.” And I thought, “Well, I’m not going to argue with this guy—he’s 6'3".” When I didn’t get fired after losing the story, and after another crazy incident, I thought, “Well, Stan’ll never fire me after this.”

Beck And Forth Although Joe doesnÕtremember specific stories, he recalls working on the WorldÕsMightiest Mortal for Fawcett circa 1946-47. So thereÕsat least a chance he may have worked with C.C. Beck and his studio on this tale from Captain Marvel Adventures #61 (May 24, 1946), one of four in the issue. [©2005 DC Comics.]

Mike and I became very good friends, right until the very end. He used to go out with an inker named Violet Barclay. She was a beautiful, voluptuous brunette—wow! But she preferred George Klein. So when Mike wasn’t with her, we would spend time going to Broadway plays together, and to bars... we just had a really good time. Now you see why I didn’t want to leave Timely Comics. I was very happy there. That was my home. JA: Did you feel as if Mike took you under his wing? GIELLA: Not exactly. Mike was a real tough guy, and he had a terrible temper, but he also had a heart of gold. He liked what I did to his work,

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

JOE GIELLA Checklist [NOTE: The following is adapted from information provided by Dr. Jerry G. Bails on his Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books website. Those wishing to know when the updated version of Who’s Who will be available should e-mail him at JerryBails@aol.com. They will be notified when it is ready. Some data provided by Joe Giella. Some names of features which appeared in more than one magazine, not only their own title, have not been placed in italics. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer; (S) = Sunday (for newspaper comic strip); (d) = daily Monday to Saturday (for comic strip).] Name: Joe Giella [b. 1928] (artist) Education: Art Students League; New York School of Industrial Arts Illustrations: cover, Harlem Globetrotters Yearbook 1996; Mighty Marvel Comics Strength & Fitness Book 1976 Honors: San Diego Comic-Con International Inkpot Award 1996 Syndicated Credits: Batman (S/d)(a) 1966-67; Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder (d)(i) 1966-68; Flash Gordon (asst/i) mid-1950s, 1970; Mary Worth (a) 1990 to present; The Phantom (d)(i) 1971-76; (S)(i) 1971-88; Sherlock Holmes (asst a), c. 1955-56; Spider-Man (d)(i) 198182; Superman Puzzle Page (S)(i) 1982 Advertising Comics: Adventures of Kool-Aid Man (i) 1983 (from Marvel) Educational Comics: New Teen Titans (i) 1983 Comics with Records: Holo Man (w/a) 1978 (for Power Records) MAINSTREAM U.S. COMIC BOOKS: American Comics Group: no other specifics (a) 1952 Archie/MLJ & related: Black Hood (i) 1967; covers (i) 1985; Fly Man (i) 1965; Hangman (i) 1967; Mighty Crusaders (i) 1965-66; The Shield (i) 1967; The Web (i) 1967 Better/Pines/Standard/Nedor: Gang Land (a) 1953; Gang World (a) 1952; Joe Yank (i) 1952; New Romances (p) 1952; Thrilling Romances (p) 1952 DC & related: Adam Strange (i) 1958-59/61-63; Air Wave (i) 1980; AllAmerican Men of War (i) no dates; All-Star Squadron (i) 1984; All-Star Super-Squad/JSA (i) 1978; Aquaman (i) 1979/82-83; The Atom & Hawkman (i) 1968; Atom 1978; Atom, Hawkman, & Hawkgirl (i) 1968; Batgirl & Robin (i) 1978; Batgirl (i) 1979-82; Batman & Elongated Man (i) 1964; Batman (i) 1964-70 & 1986 (latter reprint?); Big Town (i) 195153; Black Canary (i) 1948-49; Captain Comet (i) 1952-54; Charlie Chan (i) 195859; Chris KL-99 (i) 1951; Clark Kent (i) 1979-82; covers (i) 1950-67; DC Silver Age Classics [Batman, Green Lantern, JLA] (i) 1992 reprints; Detective Chimp (i) 195253/55-59; Dial H for Hero (i) 1982-83; Dr. Mid-Nite (i) 1980; Dr. Pat (i) 1949; Elongated Man (i) 1980; fillers (i) 1951-52; Flash (i) 1948-49; Flash (i) 1958-66/73/7779/85; Flash & J’onn J’onzz (i) 1964; Flashes Team-up (i) 1978; Foley of the Fighting 5th (i) 1951-54; Ghosts (i) 1980-81; Girls’ Love Stories (i) 1950/57-59; Girls’ Romances (i) 1958; Green Lantern (i) 194849; Green Lantern (i) 1959-64/68-70; Green Lantern Corps (i) 1982; Haunted Tank (i) 1968-69; Hawkman (i) 1972; Hopalong Cassidy (i) 1954-59; Hourman (i) 1980; House of Mystery (i) 1966; Jason Bard (i) 1972; Jimmy Olsen (i) 1968/77/80-82; Jimmy Wakely (i) 1949-52; Jimmy Wakely

(misc.) (i) 1951-52; Johnny Law (i) 1952-53; Johnny Thunder [Western] (i) 1949-51/55/59-61; Just Imagine Bruce Wayne (i) 1981; Justice League of America (i) 1960/66-72; Justice Society of America (i) 1949; King Faraday (i) 1950-51/53; Kit Colby, Girl Sheriff (i) 1951-52; Lady Danger (i) 1949; Legion of Super-Heroes (i) 1978; Lois Lane (i) 1977-78/80; Matt Savage (i) 1959-61; Melba (i) 1973; Minstrel Maverick (i) 1949-50; Molly Adams (i) 1949-50; Mr. & Mrs. Superman (i) 1978-81; Mr. District Attorney (i) 1950; Mr. Miracle (i) 1978; Mystery in Space (i) 1951-63; Nighthawk (i) 1955-58; Our Army at War (i) 1952-56; Our Fighting Forces (i) 1955-58; Phantom Stranger (i) 1952; pin-ups (i) 1984; PowWow Smith (i) 1954-59; Red Tornado (i) 1980-81; Rex the Wonder Dog (i) 1952-55/58-59; Rip Hunter (i) 1959; Robin (i) 1967/80; Rodeo Rick (i) 1955-57; Romance Trail (i) 1949-50; Sandman (i) 1982; Sargon the Sorcerer (i) 1980; Secret Hearts (i) 1955-?; Sensation Mystery (i) 1953; Shazam! (i) 1980; Sierra Smith (i) 1950; Space Cabby (i) 1955-56; Star Spangled War Stories (i) 1953-57; Steel the Indestructible Man (i) 1978; Strange Adventures (i) 1951-65; Strange Sports Stories (i) 1963; Strong Bow (i) 1951-53/57; Superboy (i) 1979-84; Supergirl (i) 1978-79; Superman & Batman (i) 1971-72/81; Superman (i) 1978-79/81/96; Superman team-ups (i) 1970-72/80; Tales of Gotham City (i) 1980-81; Teen Titans (i) 1977/84; Trigger Twins (i) 1951-59; various super-hero features 1947-48; Weird War Tales (i) 1979-80/83; Who’s Who of the DC Universe [various entries] 1985-87; Wonder Woman (i) 1977-81; World of Krypton 1973/80; Young Love (i) 1969 Fawcett Publications: Captain Marvel c. 1946-47 (with Beck & Costanza) Hillman Periodicals: Capt. Codfish (a) 1946 Marvel/Timely & related: A-Team (i) 1984; The Avengers (i) 1975; Captain America (i) 1975; Luke Cage – Power Man (i) 1976; Rawhide Kid (i) 1956; Son of Satan (i) 1975; Thing team-ups (i) 1975; Willie (i) 1947 Tower: Fight the Enemy (i) c. 1966; Lightning (i) 1966; Menthor (?) (i) c. 1966; NoMan (i) 1966; Saga of the Lucky 7 (i) 1966; T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents (i) 1967; U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agents (i) 1966

“Comic Artists Could Draw Better Than Anybody In The World!” Artist JAY SCOTT PIKE Talks About His Days At Timely/Marvel & DC Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

f you want a story with beautiful women in it, look no further than a Jay Scott Pike tale. Scott, as he prefers to be called, delineated breathtaking women for romance comics and for titles like Lorna, the Jungle Girl and Jann of the Jungle. His attention to jungle foliage heightened the reality of their environment and was always a pleasure to look at. And, though sadly he wrote and drew his late-’60s creation “Dolphin” only once, she remains a cult favorite among comics fans. As far as we’re concerned, Jay Scott Pike ranks high on the alltime list of classic “good girl” artists; and if you want further proof of that, then check out his eBay auctions for examples of his current work, or contact Marianne Ohl Phillips at www.moppinup.com. But please wait until you’ve read our whole interview! You’ll find plenty of evidence on view there, as well. —Jim.

ÒIJust Wanted To DrawÓ JIM AMASH: We can’t get away with not asking this question, so I’ll ask it first: when and where were you born? JAY SCOTT PIKE: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, September 6, 1924. JA: I was born in Altoona, PA. PIKE: Oh yeah, where the coal mines are. I went to the University of Pennsylvania for one semester before I went into the Marine Corps. I was on the Freshman football team, and just about all the guys on the team were from the Pennsylvania coal fields. Boy, were they tough! JA: Oh, I know it! So you were a football player. What got you interested in cartooning? PIKE: Like most professional cartoonists, I liked to draw and drew all the time. I remember when the movie Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs came out. It was being played all the time, and it fascinated me. I got so that I could draw all the characters in the movie. I just wanted to draw. I graduated from high school in Morristown, New Jersey, and went to college, as I said. I enlisted in the Marines in December 1942.

Beauty & The Beard Jay Scott Pike (in a self-portrait done a decade or two back)Ñand a drawing of his heroine Dolphin which he did especially for interviewer Jim Amash. ScottÕsthe one on the left. [Portrait & art ©2005 Jay Scott Pike; Dolphin TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

JA: So you volunteered. Did you have a deferment because you were in college?

said, “Awww...let him in.” [laughs] That’s how I got into the Marine Corps.

PIKE: I don’t think they had college deferments then. I actually tried eight times to get into the service before they took me. They wouldn’t take me because I’m color blind—well, not actually color blind, but I had trouble seeing colors. Finally, on my last try, the Corps man turned me down, but there was an old chief on the other side of the room, who

I got out in ’46. I was discharged in San Diego, and tried to get into college there, but they were only taking California residents. I did get into the Parsons School of Design in Manhattan. I got married in 1948, and after living in Indiana for a while, we came down to the Ringling School of Art in Sarasota, Florida. I went to school there for a year and a half, and

“I Was All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!” MARTIN THALL On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In the 1940s & Õ50s Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

artin Thall’s comic book career lasted a little less than a decade, but in that time, he managed to partner himself with guys like Wally Wood, Ross Andru and Mike Esposito, and George Evans. Martin also did quite a bit of work on his own for companies like Timely, Fox Features, and St. John Publications. If he didn’t make his mark on comics the way some of his contemporaries did, he still says, “I witnessed a lot of history.” Thanks to “fellow defense attorney” and author David Hajdu, I was able to coax Martin to step into the witness box and tell us a few stories about his comic book years. Now you get to judge whether or not Martin made a good witness. This entertaining interview stands as our verdict. —Jim

ÒJackKirby Was My MentorÓ JIM AMASH: When and where were you born? MARTIN THALL: Brooklyn, New York, on November the 30th, 1930. It was a very good year. JA: You were born Martin Rosenthal, right? Why did you change your name? THALL: That’s an interesting story. When my grandfather came to this country from Poland, his name was Schmael Colycka. I think that’s Yiddish: “Schmael” means sloppy, and “Colycka” means cripple. He

Thall Or Nothing At All (Left:) In May, Martin Thall sent Ye Editor a proofsheet of what he called Òsome recent reasonable facsimiles of myself. Pick one.Ó Hey, we like Õemall, Martin, soÉ! (Above:) The year 1951 saw Fawcett publish 6 issues of Captain Video, based on the early TV hero, all with art credited to George EvansÑso since Martin says he did inking and backgrounds for Evans on that mag, we figure this page may just show their work together. ReproÕdfrom a black-&-white 1950s English reprint of Captain Video #2 (April 1951), courtesy of Roger Dicken & Wendy Hunt. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

came here in 1906 or 1907. At that time, there was no TV or radio, but the newspaper boys would take to the streets and yell out, “Wuxtry, wuxtry!” And the headlines were, “Herman Rosenthal captured!” Then shortly after that, “Herman Rosenthal on trial!” Then, “Herman Rosenthal convicted!” When my grandfather first came here, the first name he heard was Rosenthal, so he took it.

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó

don’t pay attention to that.” When Jack drew a guy throwing a punch, his body twisted in a way that the human body couldn’t manage. He freed me up, and he showed me how he laid out his figures. When Jack Kirby laid out a page, he worked on illustration board rather than the soft board, and he blocked out his panels before doing the actual drawing. One scene he did had a pirate ship coming alongside some kind of sea vessel, and the pirates were raiding the vessel. He had a cast of thousands in the shot. When Jack put down a line, it was there. He sort-of visualized the whole thing; he was able to see what was going on in his mind, and model that. He could do eight pages a day, and he never erased; it was incredible. It was almost like he was tracing on paper what he saw in his mind. One Christmas, in 1945, I bought him a box of White Owl cigars— that’s the cheapest cigar in the world; no cigar smoker will go anywhere near them—and he was very touched by it. Jack chain-smoked cigars. I was on a school break, it was Christmas vacation, and he said, “Let’s have some coffee.” We went to the Waldorf-Astoria, which was only three blocks away from DC’s office at 480 Lexington Avenue. He took me to the Wedgewood Room, which was an elegant place, about fifty years old, and bought me dinner. I had my first shrimp cocktail there; he ordered it for me. Then he took me across the street on Park Avenue to an art supply store called Irving Berlin. I was just looking around while he was ordering stuff, and then he gave me this huge package. It was a drawing pad, pens, ink, brushes, all kinds of supplies. He was a really great guy to me. I used to hang around at DC Comics. I knew everybody there, all the editors, but I never worked for the company. JA: When you watched Jack Kirby work, was he writing the stories, too? THALL: I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think so. I was so fixed on his boards that I don’t recall seeing a script. I should have noticed that.

ThatÕsQuite A Stunt, Man! ÒWhen Jack [Kirby] drew a guy throwing a punch, his body twisted in a way that the human body couldn’t manage!Ó And he made it look good, every timeÑas in this Simon & Kirby-produced Stuntman page, reproÕdhere from Pure ImaginationÕsThe Complete Jack Kirby – March-May 1947, and used by permission of Greg Theakston. [Retouched art ©2005 Greg Theakston; Stuntman TM Joe Simon & Estate of Jack Kirby.]

Coincidentally, about 40 years later, I got into a cab, and the cabbie’s card said that the driver’s name was Herman Rosenthal. I told him the story, and he said, “The gangster who gave your grandfather his name was my grandfather.” Small world. I legally changed my last name to Thall in 1953. I used to be very vain, and I was thinking about signatures. “Rosenthal” just didn’t seem to go well, but “Martin Thall” seemed to be a good signature. I tried other names, such as “Emrose” and “Martin Rose,” before deciding on “Martin Thall.” Everybody had a signature: Milton Caniff, Bob Kane with a big “O.” I wanted a new signature, so I registered my name as Thall. JA: Tell me about your experiences with Jack Kirby. THALL: Jack Kirby was my mentor. He was wonderful; I saw him every day after school. He worked at DC Comics. This was right after 1945. At that time, all the cartoonists at DC didn’t work at home; they worked at the publisher’s. I went over to DC, and there was Jack Kirby. Joe Simon was still in the service, and hadn’t gotten out yet. They didn’t last much longer at DC. I went to the High School of Industrial Arts in the daytime, and the Cartoonists and Illustrators School at night, and I used to visit Jack Kirby in between. He would look at my work, and say, “You’re too realistic; you draw things that any human body can do. I

I did a terrible thing to Jack once. After he left DC, he and Joe Simon had their own studio. The letterer was Howard Ferguson. Bob Henry and Steve Brodie were inkers there, but Joe Simon did most of the inking. Anyway, they would stack their pages, and were working so fast that they would pass them around. Jack would pencil it, hand it on to be inked, then another guy would rule the panel borders and letter it. They would just go in circles. They were knocking them out so fast that it was fascinating. Anyway, the pages were stacked on end on the floor between Bob Henry’s taboret and his drafting table. Bob Henry dropped his pencil, or something like that. I reached for it, knocked over a bottle of ink that was on the taboret, and it spilled all over the pages that were done already. Jack said, “Should we lynch him?” Then he said, “You’d better go.” I had damaged three pages. They had to be done all over again. I said, “Are you gonna let me come back?” and he said yes. They were so gracious about it that it was incredible. I felt terrible. It was fascinating watching Will Eisner pencil, and watching him ink with a Japanese brush. That was in 1950, I believe. I used to go up wherever artists were drawing. It was easy to find them after World War II, because they were all working at their publishers’ facilities. The companies had large bullpens for all of them. JA: What do you remember about Joe Simon? THALL: Very little. He was a nice guy, and he lived on Long Island. Simon and Kirby had an extension line in their office, so I could talk to them at the same time. I’d call them in the evening while they were working, and they’d chat with me about everything and anything in the world. They were terrific.

Martin Thall On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In The 1940s & Õ50s

Martin Thall in 1997; photo courtesy of the artist.

We were totally unsuccessful. We put together a screenplay that Leonard wrote. We had already cast it, and we were going to get financing on it, but we never pulled it off. After that, Tom left New York to go to the West Coast, and I took over his studio apartment in the Village [= Greenwich Village]. It was a great neighborhood; I loved it. I moved in there with six cats: a mother and five babies. I found homes for all of them. I love cats, but I couldn’t deal with that many.

I think the company lasted for about two years. We spent about a year getting the play written, and then about another year trying to raise all the money. Cannon Films, the people who were going to finance it, backed out. After that, I started doing trade show exhibits. From the mid’70s until 1986, I freelanced as a design and graphics artist, doing trade show exhibits, showrooms, and things like that. By 1994, I contracted Parkinson’s Disease, and couldn’t use my right hand. We had been working at very large drafting tables on huge drawings, and I couldn’t handle it any more. After that, I went into playwriting. I had already put on a couple of plays. I never get any money out of it, but I’m trying to get one produced now. Even though I have health problems, I still come up with ideas, which keeps my mind active. It seems like I was all over the place, and enjoying every minute of it!

In The Reign Of Evans The late great George Evans (left) in a 1956 photoÑand his splash for the 1957 Classics Illustrated adaptation of G.A. HentyÕsFrench Revolution tale, In the Reign of Terror. This is the period during which Martin Thall worked with Evans on CI material, so our intrepid interviewee may have had a hand in this one. Evans provided the photo to author William B. Jones, Jr., for his invaluable hardcover study Classics Illustrated: A Cultural History, with Illustrations, published in 2002 by McFarland Publications and still available. [Art ©2005 Frawley Corporation and its exclusive licensee, First Classics, Inc., a subsidiary of Classics International Entertainment, Inc.]

MARTIN THALL Checklist [NOTE: This checklist, too, is based on information provided by Dr. Jerry Bails. The key and explanations are the same as for the preceding pair of checklists.] Name: Martin Thall [b. 1930] (artist) – nee Martin Rosenthal Pen Names: Emrose MAINSTREAM U.S. COMIC BOOK CREDITS: Ace Periodicals: mystery (a) 1954 Fawcett Publications: Captain Video (i, some a) 1951 Feature/Crestwood/Headline/Prize: romance (i) 1954 Gilberton: (i, some a) no specifics. M.T. reports that he worked with George Evans on Classics Illustrated issues “in the late ’50s.” Evans is credited in William B. Jones, Jr’s., book Classics Illustrated: A Cultural History, with Illustrations as drawing the following CI adaptations and

special issues of related series during the 1956-62 period: Romeo and Juliet 1956; Lord Jim, The Little Savage, In the Reign of Terror, The Rough Rider 1957; The Crisis, Blazing the Trails West, Crossing the Rockies 1958; Men, Guns, and Cattle, Flight, The French Revolution, The Buccaneer, The Three Musketeers 1959; Great Scientists, Ghosts 1960; To the Stars, For Gold and Glory, Spies 1961; World War II, Prehistoric World 1962 Marvel/Timely: horror (a) 1952-54; sports (a) 1952 Orbit/Our/Patches/Toytown: no specifics Toby/Minoan: Western (a) 1950 Trojan/Stanhall: romance (a) 1950

My Visit With Will For as long as I can remember, I idolized Will Eisner. We began corresponding in 1978, and in 1982 I met him at the School of Visual Arts in New York, where he was teaching cartooning. Over the years Will and I would occasionally touch base, chatting for a few minutes at comic book conventions and such. In the years since I’d first met him, Will and his wife Ann had moved from New York to sunny Florida. In January 1997, I visited my parents in West Palm Beach and made arrangements to stop by Will’s studio in West Tamarac, about an hour away. If my wife Janet and I were expecting the great Will Eisner to work in some fancy-schmancy office complex, we were in for a rude awakening. The address Will gave us led us to a strip mall located in a working-class neighborhood. His office was in a nearby building. The area reminded me of a low-rent district in New York, the perfect spot for a no-nonsense businessman like Will. Eisner’s studio was clean, neat, and efficient. It wasn’t huge, but big enough for him to work comfortably. Will introduced us to his brother Julian (known as Pete), his business manager. As I recall, Pete’s office contained a beautiful piece of original poster art from Will’s Army days. Another wall displayed dozens of original drawings sent to Will by his admirers. Will’s desk was at the far end of the room, surrounded by bookshelves stuffed with graphic novels, mine included. An impressive display of plaques and awards from various countries lined the walls. Nearby was a drawing table, complete with layouts for yet another graphic novel.

Michael and Will in 2001, at WillÕsstudio in Tamarac, Florida. Wonder who drew all those nifty cards in the background?

After showing us around, Will drove us to a nearby golf course for lunch. At 79, Will was in great shape (he played tennis every day!), and very sharp. We reminisced about our days in New York. He chuckled as I described feeling like The Spirit every time I went down into New York’s gloomy subway system. I reminded him of our meeting at the School of Visual Arts years earlier and he told me he loved teaching those classes. Janet and I were stunned to learn Will flew to New York each week for years to teach at the school even after he’d moved to Florida. He said it was worth the trip just to inhale that wonderfully polluted New York air! Will also described a large mural he’d designed, painted on the side of a building in Copenhagen. It featured The Spirit and one of his favorite characters, Gerhard Shnobble, the poor schlubb who could fly like a bird (though no one knew it!). By coincidence, Janet and I were planning a trip to Copenhagen that September and made a note to look for it. Months later, we finally tracked it down after tromping through half the city. Luckily there were ample pastry shops to sustain us along the way. After I returned, I pitched couple more ideas for The New

ÒWeDidnÕtKnow... It Was The Golden Age!Ó

People Who Draw PeopleÉAre The Luckiest People In The World (Left:) ÒÕDedbeetand pals,Ó Marc feels, Òwere tough and mean, but they were not lifeless mannequins. They were people!Ó From an unprinted newspaper feature the artist prepared while an assistant to Russell Keaton on Flyin’ Jenny in 1940. [©2005 Marc Swayze.]

as you planned them ... penciled them ... inked them. It was unreasonable to expect it to be accomplished with the mind centered on a forthcoming lunchtime bowling match ... or the date with the pretty editorial assistant upstairs. [Marc Swayze will be back next issue with more memories of the Golden Age of Comics.]

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“…And Then There Were None!” —The Corrections The Sequel To ÒCharltonAnd The Remnants Of The Fawcett Comics EmpireÓ by Frank “Capitol” Motler OTE: In Alter Ego #39, 40, 42, & 43, British fan Frank Motler presented a detailed study of how, in the early to mid1950s and later, Charlton Publications, often known as CDC for its Capitol Distribution arm, took over both the titles and often inventory of several comics companies which were leaving the comic book business. Chief among these was Fawcett, which folded its four-color tents in late 1953. Inevitably in a work of this scope, errors would sneak in, and additional information would become available from people who saw the article and had knowledge of particular areas or details. Below, Frank has listed, under the heading of each of the four issues of A/E in which his piece was serialized, the corrections and additions known to date of his study. A number of these were sent by Boyd Magers, while others are based on Frank’s own researches during the past year. It is hoped that anyone else having additional information will contact Frank directly or through Alter Ego. —Roy.

A/E #39: P. 49: The last sentence of the bottom caption should read: “Cover art for Romantic Story #25 (Aug. 1954) is by Leon Winik & Ray Osrin.” The artist of Romantic Secrets #17 (Aug. 1958) remains unknown to me, but long-time collector Steven Whitaker thinks it is Dick Giordano.

The Case Of The Clueless Comics It didnÕttake Scotland Yard or Sherlock HolmesÑboth of which starred in their own Charlton series in 1955-56, as witness these first-issue coversÑto correct the handful of errors and omissions in our four-part ÒFawcett-Charlton ConnectionÓ series. All it required was a bit of sleuthing by Frank Motler himself, and by Western film expert Boyd Magers. [© 2005 the respective copyright owners.]

Charlton Was A Real Sweetheart Since we showed the other Charlton romance covers covered in this mini-article in earlier issues, hereÕs another scan Frank sent us at the time: the cover of Sweethearts #46 (Dec. 1958), which was a continuation of the popular Fawcett romance comic for which Marc Swayze drew numerous stories. This cover spotlighted popular 1950s singer Jimmie Rodgers, whose hits ÒHoneycombÓ and ÒKisses Sweeter Than WineÓ led to his longrunning ÒSpaghetti-OsÓ ad on TV and his own TV series. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

A/E #40: P. 46: TNT Comics (Feb. 1946) was published by “Carlton Publishing Co.,” not “Charlton Publishing Company.” P. 47: Burton N. Levey is the name given as that of the co-owner; it was not misspelled, as the accompanying “[sic]” notation implied. A/E #42 P. 49: There is an error in the text and accompanying caption. Charlton published Maco Toys (1959) on behalf of the toy company; it had nothing to do with Blue Bird, a shoe-store chain, or with the comics published by Charlton on their behalf. On Dec 16, 2004, Boyd Magers was kind enough to write to Alter Ego and confirm certain facts, whilst pointing out some errors in this third installment of my article. Boyd is an acknowledged authority on Western films & their stars. He has also written several books on Western movies, consulted on many others, and hosted film celebrity panels, and is the publisher of Western Clippings magazine for more than ten years. I am happy to correct these errors here. P. 52: “Tim Holt” did not appear in Six-Gun Heroes, or any other Charlton comic. He was a Magazine Enterprise star (later, as Red Mask) and more recently has appeared in Bill Black’s AC Comics title Best of the West. This was my error, confusing “Monte Hale” (who did appear

Alter Ego #52