Alter Ego Collection Volume One by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas Collected Comics Fanzine

THE

COLLECTION

VOLUME 1

Reprinting the first two issues of the acclaimed magazine, plus new material!

Dedication: To

John Morrow & Jon B. Cooke without whom I’d never have re-launched Alter Ego, and to

Jerry G. Bails without whom there’d have been nothing to re-launch

The ALTER EGO Collection, Volume 1 Compiling Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #1 & 2 (1999), plus new material Editorial material ©1999, 2006 Roy Thomas & TwoMorrows Publishing • Other material ©1999, 2006 its originators

TwoMorrows Publishing 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, North Carolina 27614 www.twomorrows.com • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com First Printing • June 2006 • Printed in Canada ISBN: 1-893905-59-4 Above art celebrating the history of Alter Ego depicts “maskots” Alter Ego, Alter, & Captain Ego with original A/E co-founders Jerry Bails (right) & Roy Thomas. [Art ©2006 Jerry K. Boyd; Alter Ego TM & ©2006 Roy & Dann Thomas; Alter & Captain Ego TM & ©2006 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly, created by Biljo White; JSA & Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Sub-Mariner TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.; The Eye TM & ©2006 Bill Schelly, created by Biljo White; The Human Cat TM & ©2006 Bill Schelly, created by Richard “Grass” Green; The Eclipse TM & ©2006 Bill Schelly, created by Ronn Foss; FCA is a trademark of P.C. Hamerlinck.] Title page art penciled (probably by Carmine Infantino—inker unknown) for a never-published Golden Age “Flash” story “written off 930-49”—and featuring King Arthur!—with thanks to Don Mangus, Heritage Comics, & Dominic Bongo. Like the balloon says: “Read all about it” on pp. 160-165! [Flash TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

writer/editorial (2006)

Long Ago In A Galaxy Far Far Away

view) and the then-present (Wally Wood-drawn parodies of current heroes, etc.), but largely eschewed future comics. A single 11th issue from fellow comics scribe Mike Friedrich and me in 1978 continued that policy. Since 1965, I had figured any contribution I had to make to comics’ future would appear in the pages of Marvel Comics—or, later, DC or elsewhere. (The four issues of an Alter Ego super-hero comics series I did with Ron Harris in 1986 was, of course, one of those contributions.)

t all seems such a long time ago.

Along the way, I mentally consigned A/E to what I imagined was my own fondly-remembered past. But it refused to stay there.

No, not the Golden and Silver Age comics material in this gala reprinting of Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #1-2: that seems to me still as bright and gleaming as ever, like primeval artifacts forever encased in amber. What seems somehow incredibly distant is that time, really just seven years ago, when, after a few upside-down segments of “Vol. 2” done as adjuncts to Comic Book Artist #1-5, I launched A/E as a full-fledged magazine again. And if that seems a long while ago, viewed through the prism of the 60 issues of Vol. 3 published since—how much more ancient seem the issues of the original fanzine which I helped first Jerry Bails, then Ronn Foss, put out in the early 1960s! Luckily, I’ve related A/E’s pre-1999 story, in digest form, in the editorial reprinted on p. 8, so that here I can concentrate on how my own motivations for doing A/E have evolved over the years. In early 1961, I was flattered to be invited by a college science prof (Jerry) who was several years older than I to help start a newsletter to be titled The JLA Subscriber. It would promote DC’s Justice League of America, the then-new successor to our favorite comics feature ever, “The Justice Society of America” in 1940-50 All-Star Comics. That modest plan metamorphosed, before publication, into a full-blown fanzine named Alter-Ego, in the mode of the science-fiction fan-produced magazines which DC editor Julius Schwartz showed Jerry Bails in New York. When Jerry relinquished the reins in 1962, I figured my major involvement with A/E was over. But, only a year or so (and two Foss issues) later, I found myself the publishing editor of Alter Ego. During all this period, my focus in the zine was very much as Ronn (and then I) phrased so succinctly on our covers: “Comic Heroes of the Past, Present, and Future.”

With the revival begun in 1998-99, yet another part of Ronn’s pithy slogan has been largely jettisoned. Alter Ego is now concerned primarily with comics and comics creators of the past. I chose as a rough cut-off point the year 1974, when I resigned as Marvel’s editor-in-chief and generally lost interest in current comic book product. Oh, the new A/E would still cover my own work done since then (Invaders, Conan, AllStar Squadron, Infinity, Inc., whatever)—and I’ll print new material if it deals primarily with Golden or Silver Age subjects. But at this point, revere the comics medium though I do, I’m mostly content to leave the field’s “present” to Preview and Wizard and Comics Buyer’s Guide, et al…. and its “future” to whoever claims it. There’s more than enough work for me to do with several decades’ worth of “past.” Archaeologists and historians, after all, are in their own way every bit as important as futurists. We need to know not only where we are and where we’re going, but where we’ve been. For, every future instant will, sooner or later, become just another piece of that fabled past. “The past is another country.” An undiscovered country. And, with the help of the generous, caring, and knowledgeable contributors represented in this issue, plus a number of others who’ve signed on since, I want to go on discovering it. Since Alter Ego in its pre-natal stage was to be a newsletter called The JLA Subscriber, it seemed fitting to re-present the first two issues of Vol. 3 (plus two-dozen-plus pages of added material) behind a cover that depicts several of the early heroes of the Justice League…drawn by seven talented artists whose roots often reach back from the Silver Age into the Golden. We’ve all come a long way, baby. And, hopefully, we’ve got a lot further to travel—even if, like Per Degaton, we’re doing it in the past! Bestest,

Then, beginning in 1965, came more than three decades of being so busy with pro comics work that I barely squeezed out one more issue in 1969-70. It covered the past (Joe Kubert’s Tor, Gil Kane’s classic inter-

Jack Burnely, who's interviewed on pp. 146-159, drew these panels as one-quarter of a Sunday page for the Batman comic strip in 1946. Repro'd from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of the artist. [©2006 DC Comics.]

THE

™

COLLECTION VOLUME 1

Table of Contents A/E COLLECTION, VOL. 1, EXTRA!

Writer/Editorial For Collected Edition: . . . . 3 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editor Bill Schelly

Original Design & Layout Chris Knowles, Rich Grasso, & John Morrow (V3#1) Jon B. Cooke (V3#2)

Design & Layout (New Material)

From Alter Ego V3 #1:

Covers. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-7 The original covers of our first issue (in black-&-white this time) as rapturously rendered by Jerry Ordway and Irwin Hasen, respectively.

Writer/Editorial: Silver Age Forever! . . . . . . 8 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly welcome you to the new Alter Ego.

Christopher Day

The Stan Lee Roast. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10

Consulting Editor John Morrow

The Man gets skewered by David, Buscema, Romita, Thomas, Claremont, Shooter, & Schwartz— but it’s all in fun, right, fellas? Right, fellas?

Production Assistant

A/E COLLECTION, VOL. 1, EXTRA!

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Comic Crypt Editor

Remembrance Of Things Past. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23

Michael T. Gilbert

More fabulous photos from the 1995 Stan Lee Roast.

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Editors Emeritus Jerry G. Bails, Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Cover Art (This Volume) Nick Cardy, Ramona Fradon, Joe Giella, Dick Giordano, Joe Kubert, George Pérez, & George Tuska

Cover Color (This Volume) Tom Ziuko

Contributors (To Original V3 #1-2): Neal Adams • Phillip Anderson Thelmon Baggan • Bob Bailey Mike W. Barr • Steve Billnitzer Mike Bise • Bill Black Ray Bottorff, Jr. • Jack Burnley Sal Buscema • Chris Claremont Ernie Colón • Pierre Comtois Carla Conway • Ray A. Cuthbert Peter David • Craig Delich David Delich • Al Dellinges Will Eisner • Nancy Ford Carl Gafford • Paul Gambaccini Jeff Gelb • Jean Giraud (Moebius) Ron Goulart • Richard “Grass” Green Martin Greim • Mark Hanerfeld Ron Harris • Irwin Hasen Roger Hill • Richard Howell Gil Kane • Robert Kanigher Jon B. Knutson • David Anthony Kraft Stan Lee • Larry Lieber Jean-Marc Lofficier Russ Maheras • Lou Mougin

Da Frantic Four! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 Bill Schelly presents Grass Green’s classic 1962 FF parody.

The Secret Origins of Infinity, Inc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 The 1982 creation of the JSA’s heirs apparent, courtesy of Thomas, Ordway, & Machlan.

Vive Le Silver Surfer!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 Jean-Marc Lofficier on two 1980 issues of Silver Surfer—published only in France!

Writer/Editorial: Golden Age Forever!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 “So I Took The Subway And There Was Shelly Mayer!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48 An interview with Golden Age (and newspaper comic strip) great Irwin Hasen.

Two Touches Of Venus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 Never-seen Wonder Woman/All-Star Comics scripts from 1942—plus rare H.G. Peter art.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt: “There’s Money In Comics!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 Michael T. Gilbert presents Stan Lee’s how-to article from the 1947 Writer’s Digest.

FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #60 . . . . . 77 P.C. Hamerlinck showcases Marc Swayze—& that Brazilian Capt. Marvel/Human Torch crossover.

From Alter Ego V3 #2: Covers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 88-89 In glorious black-&-white! Two cavortin’ covers—by Gil Kane and Jack Burnley.

Writer/Editorial: Silver Threads Among The Gold (& Bronze & Even Beyond) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .90

Article

5 Will Murray • Jerry Ordway Jon E. Park • John G. Pierce John Romita • Arlen Schumer Julius Schwartz • Jim Shooter Jeff E. Smith • Robin Snyder Marc Swayze • Richard Deane Taylor Daniel Tesmoingt • Dann Thomas Joel Thingvall • Marv Wolfman • Lynn Wooley

Additional Contributors (To This Volume):

Splitting The Atom . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 92 Roy Thomas tells all (we hope!) about the 1960-61 origins of the Tiny Titan—starring Gil Kane, Julius Schwartz, Gardner Fox, and Jerry Bails.

A/E COLLECTION, VOL. 1, EXTRA!

The Justice League—Cheaper By The Dozen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 103 Twelve great Silver Age artists’ takes on one of the great Silver Age concepts—the JLA!

Splicing The Atom. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115 Pro writer Mike W. Barr talks about finding one of Gil Kane’s 1960 concept drawings.

“Stan Made Up The Plot…And I’d Write The Script” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117 A conversation with artist Larry Lieber—one of the most important scripters of the Silver Age.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt: The Legendary “Lost” Spirit Story!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 131 About that ultra-rare 1966 Spirit adventure by the immortal Will Eisner.

A/E COLLECTION, VOL. 1, EXTRA!

The “Found” Spirit Art . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 133 A few tidbits from the “lost” story—and other Eisner goodies.

Hark, The Herald Tribune Sings! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 136 A most extraordinary 1966 issue of the Trib’s New York magazine.

Fandom’s FAN-tastic Past—from the ’60s To The ’90s . . . . . . 138 A guided tour of photos and other artifacts of comic fandom’s early movers and shakers.

re: [Letters From Stan Lee & A Few Other Folks] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 143 “It Was Only Starman I Paid Attention To!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146 Actually, interviewee (& Golden Age icon) Jack Burnley lavished attention on Superman & Batman, too!

How Marv Wolfman And Co. Saved (A Bit Of) The Golden Age . . 160 On how the future scripter of Tomb of Dracula & New Teen Titans did it!

A/E COLLECTION, VOL. 1, EXTRA!

“Written Off 9/30/49” – The Special Edition. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 163 Three more pages’ worth of 1940s DC art that escaped oblivion—never before printed!

The Sky Wizard’s Lost Origins. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 166 Will Murray unearths the story of the creation of an obscure (but real!) Golden Age super-hero!

Kanigher On Kanigher! (And Everything Else!) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 169 The fabled Golden & Silver Age writer/editor writes—and Ye Editor responds.

FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #61 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 177 Captain Marvel artist/co-creator C.C. Beck—Marc Swayze—and an interview with 1940s Fawcett artist Richard Deane Taylor.

Jim Amash • Bob Bailey • Daniel Best Robert Weinberg • Dominic Bongo Jerry K. Boyd • Mike Burkey William Cain • R. Dewey Cassell Gary Colabuono • Shelton Drum Michael Dunne • Shane Foley Arnie Grieves • Heritage Comics, Inc. George Hagenauer • Denis Kitchen Larry Lieber • Ralph Macchio • Dan Makara Don Mangus • Edwin & Terry Murray Ethan Roberts • Robert Weinberg Marv Wolfman • Gregg Whitmore Eddy Zeno About Our Cover: For several years now, collector Arnie Grieves has been persuading Silver Age artists who’d done “Justice League” tales at one time or another to draw one figure each of a “JLA Jam” illustration. Arnie has his own vision, though: in lieu of Aquaman, he asked merman artists Ramona Fradon and Nick Cardy to sketch other heroes—in Ramona’s case, Black Canary instead of true charter JLAer Wonder Woman—and he asked Joe Giella to garb Green Arrow in his second set of threads. No matter. It’s a great illo, first printed in Michael Eury’s Justice League of America Companion, Vol. 1, a few months back—and now, for the first time, in full and fabulous color! Art by Joe Kubert, George Pérez, Dick Giordano, Nick Cardy, Ramona Fradon, Joe Giella, & George Tuska. [Hawkman, Atom, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Black Canary, Green Arrow, & Green Lantern TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] Art On Contents Pages: (Clockwise from top left:) Penciler John Romita, one of Stan Lee’s rhapsodic 1995 roasters, teamed up with inker Murphy Anderson for this sketch of Spider-Man playing buckin’ bronco with The Vulture, as per the program book for Shelton Drum’s 2004 Heroes Convention (Charlotte, NC). [Art ©2006 John Romita & Murphy Anderson; Spider-Man & Vulture TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Spidey (almost) meets the Hulk, in this panel from the Spider-Man daily comic strip for Oct. 11, 1989. Script by Stan Lee… pencils by Larry Lieber… inker uncertain (maybe the late John Tartaglione?). Thanks to Larry L. [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.] The Silver Age Atom’s getting smashed— could it be by his 1940s counterpart on the facing page? Art by Gil Kane (pencils) & Murphy Anderson (inks), from Showcase #36 (Jan.-Feb. 1962). [©2006 DC Comics.] Yep—could be! Irwin Hasen’s Golden Age Atom swings a mean left, from the cover of All-Star Comics #43 (Oct.-Nov. 1948). [©2006 DC Comics.]

Concept & dialogue: Roy Thomas after Stan Lee.

Stan Lee Roast

The Stan Lee Roast Held at the ’95 Chicago Comicon Transcribed by Dann Thomas Edited by Roy Thomas Introductory Note by Nancy Ford: The Chicago Comicon, coordinated by Robert Weinberg, Gary Colabuono, Larry Charet, and me, had been running for many years before we started our own awards presentation. We decided to honor people who had been pivotal in the comics and related fields, and who had done their work in an entertaining and classy manner, so we instituted the toast/roast banquet. At first the other speakers at the banquet were nervous about the possibility of their remarks being interpreted as being mean-spirited, but we assured all who participated that they had the choice of what to say, and that all humor would be based in respect. Our first honoree, in 1993, was Julius Schwartz, followed by Harlan Ellison in 1994, and Stan Lee in 1995. Not only were the honorees spectacular, but the roasters were also in a class of their own. The awards were held for about four years, until the Chicago Comicon was bought and the awards dropped. Note by Ye Editor: For the most part, I have not indicated when or to what extent the audience applauded, or laughed, or booed good-naturedly, or whatever, leaving that to the reader’s good sense. Suffice it to say, there was a lot of applause and

laughter, in particular. The transcription has been abridged slightly, in the interests of space, although probably 75-80% of what the major eight parties involved said is included... no easy task, since the videotape of the roast was not intended for transcription. No official photograph of the dais where were seated the seven—eight, counting Stan Lee— people who composed the group seems to exist; but hopefully the accompanying photographs, generously provided by Nancy Ford, will give an added feeling to what transpired in late June of 1995. Alas, Nancy was unable to recall the name of the photographer, but if he’ll make himself known, we’ll credit him in a future issue. For the most part, the comments made by roasters and roastee need little explanation to a reasonably knowledgeable comics fan audience—and would often be utterly unintelligible to anyone else. Thus, the only elaboration we’ll make at this point is to say by 1995 the socalled “Marvelution”—read, “downsizing”— had begun, as Marvel’s market share eroded and its financial troubles moved into high gear (and onto the front pages). This was also the period during which it was wrongheadedly (but mercifully briefly) decided that many years’ worth of Spider-Man adventures had actually happened to a clone of Peter Parker; hence the various “clone” references. And now, without further ado.... [To applause in the packed banquet room, the seven roasters are escorted to their seats on the dais by young ladies. At this point SpiderMan enters, strides to the microphone.]

“I’d like to introduce a man who’s been like a father to me...”

11 SPIDEY: I’d like to introduce a man who’s been like a father to me. Ladies and gentlemen... Mr. Stan Lee! [Stan Lee is ushered in, to thunderous applause, and hops onto the dais.] STAN LEE: Thank you... thank you! [Throws up his arms, shouts:] EXCELSIOR! [Sits. Gary Colabuono walks to the podium.] GARY: Our master of ceremonies tonight is a dear friend of mine, who’s our guest of honor this year. [At this point Peter briefly falls off his chair, but regains it with reasonable aplomb.] All of us in the business end of comics are envious of Peter David, because he started in the business end of comics, and now he’s doing what we’ve all wished we could do. Peter David... PETER: Ladies, gentlemen, disgruntled former Marvel employees—and we’ll be having a “Count the Former Marvel Editors-in-Chief Contest” after dinner—last year the Chicago Comicon had Harlan Ellison as the guest of honor, and they had a Harlan Ellison Tribute Dinner. This year I am the guest of honor... so naturally we’re having a Stan Lee Tribute Dinner. I’m actually a “special guest,” which is kind of like “special Olympics,” I suppose. At any rate, ladies and gentlemen, try and have a fun evening. [After dinner, Peter takes the podium again; he blows one of the noisemakers provided to each guest; its tongue juts out, then dips straight down] Look, it’s Marvel market-share toys! [Mixture of groans, laughter, applause] We begin tonight’s symposium with my favorite Stan Lee anecdote. I regret that it is customary, indeed almost an obligation, that when you are telling a Stan Lee anecdote, you have to do a Stan Lee impression. This is actually fairly easy because, to get Stan, you do kind of a cross between Mr. Rogers and Maxwell Smart. You know, like [in high-pitched voice:] “Would you believe, three Peter Parkers!” I was on a convention panel with Stan, and I was supposed to ask him all kinds of interesting questions, which, ideally, he would answer. And just before we start, Stan says to the audience: “I just want to tell you guys about this young, fabulous writer”—this is a few years ago—he says, “This young man has written one of the best graphic novels Marvel has ever published!” I knew I was in trouble, because at the time I had not written any graphic novels. And Stan drapes his arm around me and he says, “Ladies and gentleman, this young man, the writer of Greenberg the Vampire!” The audience goes like this... [Imitates someone starting to applaud, then slowing his clapping, halting, puzzled] I’m sitting there dying, and I say to the audience, “Should I tell him?” And they say, “I think you’re going to

Two Co-Creators Reveal—

The Secret Origins

of Infinity, Inc. by Roy Thomas (with the special input of Jerry Ordway) I. A Concept a-Borning The sons and daughters—the natural children and spiritual heirs—of the Justice Society of America! Turns out this may be one of the oldest ideas in the so-called Silver Age of Comics, and I’m just lucky I’m the guy who got to write it first. Luckier still that, when I got my shot, I had two of the most talented young artists around to do it with me! Let’s backtrack a bit: In Bill Schelly’s 1995 book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom, Larry Ivie, a comics/ science-fiction fan as well as a talented artist and writer, reported that in the late ’50s he spoke to a DC editor about an idea he had: “Ivie’s great disappointment was that National wasn’t interested in his proposed revival of the Justice Society of America, to be called the Justice Legion of the World, which would be made up of the sons and daughters of the original JSA.”

America from All-Star Comics. It was quite a different group from what Larry had envisioned, but his “sons and daughters” concept was an idea that was bound to surface again. It was, as they say, “in the air.” In 1975, having resigned the previous year as editor-in-chief, I was still employed by Marvel as a contractual writer/editor (its first, after Stan Lee). One night, at the Manhattan apartment of my friend Gerry Conway, who had recently stopped writing for Marvel to return to DC, the two of us were kicking around ideas, as was our wont. And suddenly I heard myself suggesting a few pet notions I’d like to see DC publish, even if I wasn’t free to write them myself.

Larry moved on to other projects, including his own magazine Monsters and Heroes, and has promised that one of these days he’ll tell Alter Ego the full story of his “Justice Legion,” a concept that was perhaps a bit ahead of its time. In 1960, of course, under editor Julius Schwartz, National (as DC was then officially known) launched the Justice League of America, an updated version of its 1940s Justice Society of

The Secret Origins of Infinity, Inc. One of those ideas was the return of AllStar Comics, with the Justice Society of America. Gerry sparked to the idea at once and carried the ball from there, with no further input from me. All-Star Comics #58 (Jan.-Feb. 1976), the first of the new series, was of course set on Earth-Two. And if you have to ask what Earth-Two was, you’re probably too young to be reading this, but: From 1963-1985, the JSA existed on a parallel world of that name, from which they made annual forays into the pages of Justice League of America. Writer/editor Gerry took them out of that limited guest-star sphere and into their own magazine again, though still set on Earth-Two. To add a youthful accent to a bunch of heroes who after all had been around since World War Two and before, he added to the JSA an “All-Star Super Squad” composed of three heroes who hadn’t been JSAers in the old days: the Earth-Two Robin, the Star-Spangled Kid (from 1940s Star-Spangled Comics)—and Power Girl, a new heroine he created as the cousin of that world’s Superman, and thus the alternate Earth’s equivalent of Supergirl. Power Girl, named Kara (Gerry and Carla Conway would later name their only child Cara; she also happens to be my godchild), proved instantly popular. Of course, her stunning figure and cut-out bust, as drawn by Ric Estrada and Wally Wood, probably didn’t hurt any. Later Gerry offered me a chance to ghostwrite an issue or two of All-Star. I thanked him, but told him that if I ever did a comic about the JSA, I wanted my name on the splash page. He understood. Soon afterward, when Stan and I lured Gerry back to Marvel, Paul Levitz of Legion

of Super-Heroes fame took over the scripting of All-Star. In issue #70 (Jan.-Feb. 1978), he and artists Joe Staton and Bob Layton introduced The Huntress. In the 1940s this had been the name of a Wildcat villainess, but this one was different: She was the daughter of the Earth-Two Batman! Thus, the notion of the sons and daughters of the JSA picking up the torch from the older heroes was slowly and unconsciously taking form, even if Power Girl was Superman’s cousin rather than his daughter. When the great DC Implosion of 1978 led first to cancellation of the revived All-Star and then of the Adventure Comics into whose many pages the JSA had retreated, Power Girl and The Huntress went mostly into mothballs. But not for long.

II. Elements Assemble! In 1980 I reluctantly ended my 15-year stay at Marvel and (not at all reluctantly) signed a writing contract with DC. Among other things, I was allowed to create a new title—All-Star Squadron, set during the World War II years—to utilize the many EarthTwo super-heroes of that era (including but not limited to the JSA). My longtime colleague Len Wein was assigned as the book’s editor and chose the artists, though it was understood that the story direction of the series would be left to me. With art by Rich Buckler and inker Jerry Ordway, and a brilliant cover concept by Len, All-Star Squadron #1 (Sept. 1981) had a very good sale of 250,000+ copies; and while it soon fell from those lofty heights, the comic fared well for some time. A primary reason for that was Jerry Ordway.

Squadron. But as soon as I saw his embellishing of Rich’s pencils on the 16-page preview slated to appear as a teaser in JLA #193, I fell in love with his work. As an inker, anyway. Nineteen issues later, after Rich had long since departed and Jerry had spent more than a year inking the pencils of Adrian Gonzales, Len forced Jerry on me again—this time as penciler as well as inker. Since again I hadn’t seen specimens of Jerry’s work in this area, I back-pedaled, but it was Len’s decision. (Jerry told me recently that actually he’d been trying to get penciling work from DC for some time. He once agreed to ink Joe Staton on JLA, being led to believe that he was being groomed to take over as penciler; but he quickly learned Staton wasn’t going anywhere, so Jerry left JLA instead. Finally, he says, he announced that if he wasn’t made penciler of All-Star Squadron, he would have to leave the title. He got the job.) I’ll admit to initial misgivings when I pored over the first few pages of Jerry’s pencils for #19 (March 1983). Not that they weren’t good—in some ways they were very good. I was especially impressed by his renderings of the Trylon and Perisphere and other artifacts left over from the 1939-40 New York World’s Fair. Still, I wasn’t quite 100% sold— —until I flipped over Page 8, and saw his powerful full-page panel of six All-Stars staring

I won’t go into rhapsodies here about Jerry’s talent, because I’ll admit that, no less than twice, he was thrust upon me by editor Len Wein.

First it was as an inker. Now, I had nothing against Jerry—it’s just that Len hadn’t shown me any samples of his inking, so to me Jerry was an unknown quantity when he was made inker of All-Star

Left: Hippolyta Trevor had made her debut in Wonder Woman #300 only months before the confrontation with her mother (left) in Infinity, Inc. #1, as penciled by Jerry Ordway and first seen in Amazing Heroes #36, Dec. 1, 1983. © 1999 DC Comics.

Vive Le Silver Surfer! An American Super-Hero In Paris (Well, Anyway, France)

by Jean-Marc Lofficier

freakish, wandering celestial body threatens to collide with the planet Earth. Even the Silver Surfer is powerless to divert its course. But his numerous acts of charity and mercy raise the spiritual level of humanity as it waits for the Day of Judgment. This naturally upsets Mephisto, who dispatches his demons Belzebuth and Astaroth to spread new evil on Earth.

If you read every one of the eighteen original issues of The Silver Surfer when that Marvel comic was published between 1968 and 1970 and can’t recall the above plotline—and if you don’t recognize it from the hundred or so issues of the recent series, or even from the TV cartoon— Don’t worry, Frantic One! Seek not for a missing issue in your Silver Surfer collection. For this adventure, entitled “La Porte Étroite” (“The Narrow Gate”), was published for the first and only time in two issues of a French comic book called Nova. To understand how this came to be, we must now flash back to 1940s France.

I. From The Ashes of Defeat The Nazis had taken over most of France in 1940. Even though the Axis powers and the United States were not yet at war, a side effect of the German occupation was the discontinuation of the import of popular American comic strips such as Flash Gordon, Brick Bradford, Prince Valiant, et al. French publishers scrambled to replace this material, and quickly turned to native French talent—and Italian imports, despite the fact that Mussolini’s Italy was the ally of Hitler’s Third Reich. In the French city of Lyons, during the War, a young writer named Marcel Navarro was asked by the president of the publishing company S.A.G.E. to translate some Italian comics. While working for S.A.G.E., Navarro met writer-artists Pierre Mouchotte and Robert Bagage, both heavily influenced by American strips. These three men were later almost singlehandedly responsible for a publishing explosion that produced a myriad of inexpensive monthly or bimonthly comic magazines, intended to satisfy the demand for harder-edged, more violent, more fantastic, American-style stories. In 1946 Mouchotte started his own publish-

ing company, but was ultimately driven out of business by a censorship law passed in July 1949 at the behest of Catholic educators and parents to monitor the contents of comic books. As a result of that law, most magazines were forced to go to a black-and-white, digest-size format and became known as the petits formats (small formats). Meanwhile, Navarro had joined Éditions Sprint, for which he created the character of Secret Agent Z.302, drawn by Bagage under

the pseudonym “Robba.” In 1946 Bagage left Sprint to create his own publishing company, the Éditions du Siècle (which would be renamed Imperia in 1952). Artist J.Y. Mitton’s Buscema-cloned cover for Nova #25. The Surfer’s figure is a swipe from Silver Surfer #6 (June 1969), page 2, though with a bit more sheen. Silver Surfer ©1999 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Vive le Silver Surfer

the first translations of Marvel Comics in France, in a magazine entitled Fantask. Unfortunately, Lug had repeated run-ins with the censors, who objected to the super-hero violence, the bright colors (deemed “garish”), and the various monsters, creatures, and assorted super-villains. The French censors had the power to decide that material was unsuitable for children, and force it to be labeled “for adults.” In addition to keeping such magazines out of younger hands, the VAT (Value Added Tax) on adult material was twice that of material produced for children, making many marginal publications suddenly unprofitable. As a result of these factors, Fantask was cancelled after only six issues. In fact, it would seem the magazine was banned outright! (For a much fuller account of French comics censorship during this period, see articles in The Collected Jack Kirby Collector, Volume Two, published in 1998 by TwoMorrows.) During these six issues, Fantask reprinted Fantastic Four #1, 3-10, 12, 14-18; Amazing Spider-Man #1-3; and The Silver Surfer #1-2, 4-6. The latter series in particular (“Le Surfer d’Argent” in French), was tremendously well-received.

In 1947 Navarro, too, left Sprint, to go to Aventures & Voyages, another petits formats publisher, for which he created “Yak” and “Brik” for artist Jean Cezard. Finally, in 1950, Navarro teamed up with would-be publisher Auguste Vistel to create Éditions Lug, which was also based in Lyons. (Lug was the ancient Gauls’ god of commerce and trade, and the original Latin name of Lyons had been Lugdunum, “City of Lug.”) At first, Lug published the traditional mix of French and Italian series. But, unlike its competitors, Navarro (who used what he considered the American-sounding pseudonyms “Malcolm Naughton” and “J.K. Melwyn-Nash”) actually created many of the characters, which were then entrusted to Italian studios to script and draw.

II. O Bitter Victory In 1969 Claude Vistel, Auguste Vistel’s daughter, who had just returned from a trip to the United States, convinced Navarro to publish

Top: The cover of Fantask #4, utilizing the Buscema art for the cover of the U.S. Silver Surfer #5 (April 1969). Silver Surfer ©1999 Marvel Characters, Inc. Left: A comics convention sketch of an airborne Norrin Radd by renowned French illustrator Moebius. See a near-future issue for more previously-unpublished Moebius Surfer art. Art ©1999 Starwatcher Graphics Silver Surfer ©1999 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

There’s Money In Comics! by Stan Lee, Editor and Art Director, Timely Comics, Inc.

ell, what are you waiting for? They’ve been publishing comic magazines for more than 10 years. They’ve been buying scripts for these magazines from freelance writers for that same length of time and paying good rates for them. There are 92 comic magazines appearing on the stands every single month—and each magazine uses an average of 5 stories. It’s a big field, it’s a well-paying field, and it’s an interesting field. If you haven’t tried to crack the comics yet, now’s the time to start.

No matter what type of writing you specialize in—adventure, detective style, romantic stories, or humorous material, there is some comic magazine which uses the type of story you’d like to write. And, once you’ve broken into the field, you’ll find that your assignments come to you at a fairly steady pace.

Stan Lee has been Marvel’s most famous editor and writer since the 1940s, when the company was still known as Timely. This article was written around the same time as Stan’s behind-the-scenes book, Secrets Behind The Comics, and was designed to show would-be comics writers how to break in. It first appeared in the November 1947 issue of Writer’s Digest. The only piece of art illustrating the original article was Syd Shores’ Blonde Phantom page—a page chosen to demonstrate the correct way to write comics. However, I find it a very odd choice. This page (not scripted by Stan, strangely enough!) strikes me as the perfect example of comics storytelling at its worst! If you can figure out where to go after panel one, you’re a better man than I, Gunga Din! That minor quibble aside, the article is filled with solid information, and Stan’s infectious enthusiasm. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it! By the way if you have any rare old comics articles you’d like to see reprinted in future installments, please send copies to me at: Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene, OR 97440. Letters (or requests for my Mr. Monster back-issue catalog) can be sent to the above address, or via e-mail at jgilbert@efn.org ’Til next time, Michael T. Gilbert

The pay is good. A competent writer can write about 10 pages a day for $6 to $9 per page, depending upon the strip he is writing and the quality of his material. So, this comic field certainly bears a pretty close scrutiny from any writer who’s interested in receiving meaty checks, and in receiving them often. (And I’ve yet to see the writer who isn’t interested!) “But I’m not good at drawing! How can I work with an artist on a comic strip?” How often I’ve heard that said by writers! Look! You don’t have to be able to draw flies! You do need an imagination, and the ability to write snappy dialogue and to describe continuity. And what writer won’t lay claim to those talents? Comic strip writing is very comparable to radio writing, or to writing for the stage. The radio writer must describe sound effects in his script, and the playwright must give staging directions in his play. Well, the comic strip writer also gives directions for staging and sound effects in his script, but HIS directions are given in writing to the artist, rather than to a director. He must tell the artist what to draw, and then must write the dialogue and captions. A sample page from a script of The Blonde Phantom follows. This is an actual page, just as it was typed by Al Sulman, the writer. You will notice that the page is roughly divided into two sections, the left-hand section containing the instructions for the artist, and the right-hand section containing the dialogue. There are no set rules as to margins and borders, the important consideration being to make sure that the script is written clearly and can be easily understood by the editor and the artist. One interesting aspect of writing a comic strip is seeing how the artist finally interprets your script. Syd Shores used the above copy to draw one page for Blonde Phantom Comics, issue #15. As you can see, the artist relied on the instructions that Alan Sulman typed on the left side of the script. BUT there’s more to comic strip writing than just knowing on which side of a page to type artist’s instructions. Let’s try to analyze some of the factors which go into the making of a good script: 1. Interesting Beginning. Just as in a story, the comic strip must catch the reader’s interest from the first. The very first few panels should show the reader that something of interest is happening, or is about to happen. 2. Smooth Continuity. The action from panel to panel must be natural and unforced. If a character is walking on the street talking to another character in one panel, we wouldn’t show him horseback riding in the next panel with a different character. There ARE times when it is necessary to have a sudden change of scene or time, however, and for such times the writer uses captions. For example, if we have Patsy Walker lying in bed, about to fall asleep, in one panel, and want to show her eating breakfast in the next panel, the second panel would have an accompanying caption

There’s Money in Comics!

Artist Syd Shores’ version of the instructions given to him by the author, Alan Sulman, whose play-by-play description of what to draw and what the characters are talking about, appears below. Panel 1. Scene in office, as Louise clears up her desk. Mark faces her.

1. Louise: (thought) He never notices me! All he ever thinks of is the Blonde Phantom!

Panel 2. Louise, hands outward, looking at the reader, as if her thoughts in the previous panel were just proven true by what Mark has said.

2. Louise: See what I mean?

Panel 3. Louise, ready to leave office. Mark sits on desk and smiles at her as if he has just thought of a wonderful idea.

3. Louise: Well, everything’s finished for today, Mark! See you in the morning!

Panel 4. Louise alone, suddenly looking interested and excited, expecting Mark to ask her for a date.

4. Louise: Huh? Yes, what is it, Mark?

Panel 5. Mark lights his pipe, expressionless, as if he has changed his mind. Louise seems plenty angry.

5. Mark: Well, I... er... never mind! It wasn’t important! Good night, Louise!

Panel 6. Door slams shut as Mark looks at it, slightly surprised and bewildered.

6. Balloon from Louise: Good night!

Mark: Gosh, if I could only find where the Blonde Phantom lives! We could have a night of it together!

Mark: Say, wait a minute, Louise! How would you like to...

Louise: (thought) That’s what I call a quick brushoff, you, you... Mark: Huh? Now what’s she so mad about? Sound effects: SLAM! reading something like this: “The next morning, after a sound night’s sleep, Patsy rushes to the kitchen to do justice to a hearty breakfast.” Thus, by the use of captions, we are able to justify time and space lapses in our panels. 3. Good Dialogue. This is of prime importance. The era of Captain America hitting the Red Skull and shouting “So you want to play, eh?” is over! Today, with the comic magazine business being one of the most highly competitive fields, each editor tries to get the best and snappiest dialogue possible for his characters. In writing a comic strip, have your characters speak like real people, not like inhabitants of a strange and baffling new world! 4. Suspense Throughout. Whether you are writing a mystery script or a humorous script, the same rule applies: Keep it interesting throughout. Any comic strip in which the reader isn’t particularly interested in what happens in the panel following the one he’s reading, isn’t a good comic strip. All of the tricks you have learned and applied in writing other forms of fiction can be used in comic writing insofar as holding the reader’s attention is concerned. But remember, giving the reader well-drawn pictures to look at is not enough; the reader must WANT to look at the pictures because he is interested in following the adventures of the lead character. 5. Finally, a Satisfactory Ending. An ending which leaves the reader with a smile on his lips and a pleasant feeling that all the loose strings of the story have been neatly tied together can cover a multitude of sins. It has always been my own conviction that a strip with an interesting beginning, good dialogue, and a satisfactory ending, can’t be TOO bad, no matter how many other faults it may have. One point which I can’t stress too strongly is: DON’T WRITE DOWN TO YOUR READERS! It is common knowledge that a large portion of comic magazine readers are adults, and the rest of the readers who may be kids are generally pretty sharp characters. They are used to seeing movies and listening to radio shows and have a pretty good idea of the stories they want to read. If you figure that “anything goes” in a comic magazine, a study of any recent copy of Daredevil Comics or Bat Man will show you that a great deal of thought goes into every story; and there are plenty of gimmicks, subplots, human interest angles, and the other elements that go into the making of any type of good story, whether it be a comic strip or a novel.

Splitting The Atom

Splitting The Atom More Than You Could Possibly Want to Know about the Creation of the Silver Age Mighty Mite! by Roy Thomas

#34 (cover-dated Dec. 1961, but actually on sale several months earlier). After appearing also in #35-36, he graduated at once to his own bimonthly magazine, The Atom (#1, June-July 1962).

AST YEAR AT RASHOMON DEPT.: Back in A/E V2#2, Ye Editor offered the classic 1950 Akiro Kurosawa film Rashomon, whose theme is the impossibility of ever knowing the whole truth about any event, as a template for comics (or any other kind of) history. Then there’s New Wave director Alain Resnais’ 1961 masterpiece Last Year at Marienbad, in which the male protagonist confronts the heroine again and again to insist the two of them had an affair “last year at Frederiksbad, perhaps at Marienbad.” In its own way, the French film plays with truth and memory every bit as much as does Rashomon—which, believe it or don’t, brings us to the creation of the Silver Age Atom.

Ray Palmer wasn’t the first DC hero called The Atom, of course. The original one appeared from 1940-1951 in All-American Comics, Flash Comics, Comic Cavalcade, and All-Star Comics. The Mighty Atom, as he was called in his origin in AllAmerican #19 (Oct. 1940), was a short, red-headed Calvin College student named Al Pratt who had been trained to physical perfection. Until 1948 this Atom had no superpowers, just a rather odd, leather-girdled outfit with a full face mask. Then, still early in the Atomic Age, DC decided a crimefighter with so timely a name needed powers to match; so The original, non-super-powered Atom, overnight, in a 1945 panel drawn by Jon Chester with no explaKozlak. [Art courtesy of Jerry Bails; nation, he Atom ©1999 DC Comics.] gained “atomic strength” and, soon afterward, a new costume with a stylized atom emblazoned on its tunic. The first Atom’s last Golden Age appearance was in All-Star #57 (Feb.-March 1951). A few facts about the creation of the second Atom are pretty much set in concrete: Scripted by Gardner Fox, penciled by Gil Kane (with Murphy Anderson inks), and edited by Julius Schwartz, he debuted in National/DC’s Showcase

Alas, almost everything else about the origins of the six-inch stalwart is up for grabs. Fact is, a study of The Atom’s less than immaculate conception is a textbook example of how difficult, if not downright impossible, it is to reconstruct comics history—even when most of the people involved in a particular creation are still alive. Maybe especially then, because it’s harder for anyone to make sweeping assumptions without someone else arising to vociferously deny them! Offered for your consideration:

Background image: Jerry Bails’ 1960 concept of The Atom— like the one that eventually appeared in this panel from Showcase #35—called for a hero who shrank from 6’ tall to 6”! [Original artwork by Kane & Anderson courtesy of Mike W. Barr; Atom ©1999 DC Comics.]

The Silver Age versions of Flash, Green Lantern, and Hawkman, for all the science-fictional trappings which set them apart them from their 1940s forebears, were still basically “revivals,” as DC editors and fans alike called them back then. However, the star of Showcase #34 was destined to have virtually nothing in common with the old Atom except his name. The new hero’s main schtick would be that he fought crime while shrunk to a height of six inches. For the first time, DC would take one of its “revivals” off in a radically different direction from the original, making him in effect a totally new character. Ever wonder why? In attempting to reconstruct the creation of the Silver Age Atom, we must examine the potential contributions of four principals. In alphabetical order: Jerry G. Bails, in 1960 a young associate professor of natural science at Wayne State University, Detroit, and soon to become the first editor/publisher of Alter Ego (Volume 1) and a founding father of comics fandom;

Jerry G. Bails, circa 1960-61. [Reprinted from Alter Ego V1#5 by way of the 1997 trade paperback The Best of Alter Ego.]

Gardner F. Fox (1911-1986), writer/co-creator of the Golden Age Flash, Hawkman, Dr. Fate, and Justice Society, among others—who by late 1960 had likewise co-created the Silver Age Justice League, Hawkman, and Adam Strange; Gil Kane, a professional comics artist since 1942, best known in late 1960 as the illustrator of the Silver Age Green Lantern—a perennial

“It Was Only Starman I Paid Attention To!”

A Conversation with Jack Burnley Conducted & Edited by Roy Thomas Transcribed by Jon B. Knutson

s a kid in the late 1940s, I ran across an “old” (i.e., 1942) copy of Superman #19 at my grandparents’ farm. Inside were advertised the covers of other DC comics—including All-Star Comics #13, wherein the Justice Society were “Shanghaied into Space.” I spent years yearning to see the comic that went with that ad. But it would be more than a decade before I’d see it—or would learn that the artist of that stunning cover (and, as it happened, of quite a few pages inside) was one Jack Burnley… who was also responsible for some of the most beautiful Superman, Batman, and Starman artwork ever done, including much of the 1940s Superman and Batman newspaper comic strips. In the final, 150th issue of his pace-setting Comics Interview magazine in 1995, David Anthony Kraft presented a lengthy talk with the artist, ably conducted by Lou Mougin, and I urge readers to seek out a copy. I was tempted to reprint it here, with Dave’s permission, but decided that, because I had a few questions of my own, it would be better to accept Jack Burnley’s kind offer to be interviewed again. However, Lou’s interview for CI blazed the trail I followed, and I hereby acknowledge that debt, with thanks. Thus, on July 10, 1999, I phoned Mr. Burnley (who quickly insisted I call him “Jack,” which I found a bit difficult, given my upbringing) and taped the following interview.—RT.

ROY THOMAS: You were born Harden Burnley. How did you get “Jack” out of that? JACK BURNLEY: Well, my middle name is John, so I used Jack. Harden Burnley’s a family name. When I first became a syndicated sports cartoonist with King Features, I was eighteen. That sports cartoon, which was syndicated to the Hearst newspapers, or to any newspaper throughout the country, used the name “Harden Burnley” for a year or two. But then I had them change the byline to just “Burnley.” By two years before I went into comics, I was using the name “Jack Burnley” professionally. RT: Where were you born? BURNLEY: New York City. We lived in a large apartment house on Riverside Drive, just across from Grant’s Tomb. It’s been torn down, and now there’s the Riverside Church there. RT: You were born in 1911. Your older brother, Depree, who was called Ray…. BURNLEY: I’d like to correct that, if I may. His name was Dupree. With a “u.” It’s pronounced “dew-pray.” It’s a French name. He didn’t use “Ray” until he went into comics with me. RT: I understand both of you got into comics around the same time, in 1939. BURNLEY: He never settled into any particular art line. He was interested in fine arts. He liked the French impressionists, and he liked to do This page: Superman, Batman, and Starman—the Big Three of Burnley’s comic book career. [Superman-Batman illo ©1999 Jack Burnley; Superman, Batman, Starman ©1999 DC Comics.]

Jack Burnley

times after that. I didn’t see his actual fights—I was too young—but I saw him work out in the gymnasium.

illustrations, but he was never really successful. When I left King Features and went into comics, I took him with me, and he worked as my assistant. He did penciling and inking of some of the backgrounds.

RT: Jim Steranko’s History of Comics says you got into sports cartoons professionally because your sister took you up to King Features.

RT: He was never interested in a separate comics career for himself?

BURNLEY: Her name was Martine. My other sister, Elizabeth—who goes by the name of Betty—did the lettering for several years.

BURNLEY: He just got into it with me; he didn’t have a regular job otherwise, and it just turned out he was able to become a successful inker. But that was only through the association with me. He knew nothing about comics otherwise.

RT: So you were an artistic family.

RT: Comics Interview mentioned that some of your influences included one of my favorites, George Herriman, who did Krazy Kat, and Billy DeBeck on Barney Google… also Alex Raymond on Flash Gordon, and William Gould…. BURNLEY: Will Gould was a sports cartoonist. He spent a A past master holding a past masterpiece: This photo, taken a few years ago, shows year at King Features before I Jack Burnley holding a copy of the 1940 edition of World’s Fair Comics—the first time Superman and Batman appeared on a comic cover together, and containing took over the job. He later did his first Superman story. a Dick Tracy type of strip called Red Barry. But his influence on me was only as a sports cartoonist. apprenticeship. RT: You also mentioned Bill Ripley…. RT: Was it your idea, BURNLEY: He was originally a sports cartoonist with the New York or your sister’s, to Globe in the ’20s. I was still a sports cartoonist when he started doing show your cartoons? Believe It or Not, which started out as a sports cartoon. But it became so Were you pushing popular that he dropped the sports part. this, or was it just something she RT: You did a lot of boxing cartoons. Was boxing a special favorite, or saw and said, did you like all kinds of sports? “People ought BURNLEY: When I was quite young, I was interested in boxing and to see this”? baseball. I’m one of the only persons around who can say they saw Ty BURNLEY: Cobb, Walter Johnson, Tris Speaker, and of course Babe Ruth. I used to I wanted to go to ballgames at Yankee Stadium; we weren’t living too far from there. be a cartoonIt was the old Polo Grounds where the Yankees played, and from the ist! I wanted time I was around nine or ten years old, I used to go there, sitting in the to get out of bleachers. school! I felt I RT: The 1920s are often called “The Golden Age of Sports.” Do you could go right agree that it was a particularly golden time? in and start a comic strip BURNLEY: I think it was probably the most colorful time…. RT: You’ve said you saw Jack Dempsey fight. BURNLEY: I saw him work out in an open air stadium, when he was training for a fight with Bill Brennan in 1921, and I saw him a number of

147

Jack Dempsey, heavyweight champion 19191927, as drawn by Jack Burnley.

BURNLEY: I guess. Martine had done some modeling for an illustrator who used to do work for The Saturday Evening Post and Collier’s, which had short stories with some illustrations. She showed an artist some of my cartoons when I was about thirteen. He liked them and suggested she take them to Jack Lait, who was an editor at King Features. Lait liked the stuff. He said, “Just sit in the art department there, and do whatever you want. Watch the cartoonists work; eventually you’ll learn and go on from there.” It was just like an