Dance Central September/October 2015

September/October 2015

Dance Central A Dance Centre Publication

Content Questioning A conversation with Deanna Peters Page 2

Dramaturgies of the Self Alex Lazarides Ferguson Page 8

Dance Education: A conversation with Cheryl Prophet Page 12

Welcome to Dance Central

Thinking Bodies: A conversation with Deanna Peters

Questioning AK: Do you think of yourself as a performer, a choreographer, an interdisciplinary dance artist? Do you care how you are described?

DP: I really care! I think it comes out of my work in CADA (the Canadian Association of Dance Artists), and my work in promoting artists: I think it is critical to have clarity in speaking about yourself. I find that there is a The issue features a conversation with Deanna Peters, recent recipient of the Iris Garland Emerging Choreographer Award, about her work in dance, performance, communication, and among other things, her interest in making dancers play basketball.

Choreographer and dancer Cheryl Prophet talks about the development of dancer training from her vantage point as a senior educator at SFU's School for The Contemporary Arts, and her observations about the important role that various somatic practices have played in recent years.

In the Critical Movements series, we present a conversation with dramaturg, actor, academic and co-Artistic director of Vancouver's FIGHT WITH A STICK Alex Lazarides Fergusion, to continue the dialogue about the definition, role and limitations of dance dramaturgy.

As always, we thank all the artists who have agreed to contribute and we welcome new writing and project ideas at any time, in order to continue to make Dance Central a more vital link to the community. Please send material by email to members@thedancecentre.ca or call us at 604.606.6416. We look forward to the conversation!

Andreas Kahre, Editor 2

Dance Central September/October 2015

trend, or a habit in dance, where dancers will defer to other art forms. I think it is important when someone asks you about your work, that you are prepared to talk about yourself and your practice. I read a biography of Peggy Baker that described her frustration when dealing with the Canada Council, because in the early days they had no categories for her as a contemporary dancer or as an independent dance artist. Those things come across right away when you describe yourself, so I say I am a professional dance artist, and I go on to say that I create, perform, teach and produce. I put it specifically in that order, because I used to be primarily a performer in other people's work, but I have been in a self-led transition process toward creating my own work, and I flipped the order a few years ago. At the same time, I intentionally don't call myself just a choreographer, because a lot of what I do reaches far beyond the parameters of what people hear in their minds when they encounter the term 'choreographer'. I like to keep it in the realm where a dance artist is on the same level as an 'artist artist'. For a while I called myself simply a professional artist, but I had a conversation with Justine Chambers, and she pointed out that we need every opportunity to mention and acknowledge dance, and I agreed, so I put the dance back in.

AK: What shifted your focus from performing to creating?

DP: Questioning. I have always questioned and been really detailed about every aspect of my work, and that wasn't necessarily serving me in my role as a dancer in other people's work, but I needed an outlet for that questioning and investigation and experimentation that I couldn't find in the groups I was working with. Creating always coincided with performing for me; my first choreographic gig was in 2003, the same year as my first performance gig, so creation was always happening. At first I described it as 'playing dance house' (before DanceHouse existed). We would build fake invoices and contracts and go through the motions of what would be the best practices when we actually had

"I want to invest in people my own age, and get out of the hierarchical nature of the dance process. We are trying to manifest in the culture."

changes

Deanna Peters | Mutable Subject | Dance Artist | Other.

I create, perform and produce for stage, screen, site specific and beyond. Recent projects include Act, Sask Social, Small Itch, DanCers Playing Basketball deanna@mutablesubject.ca Dance Central September/October 2015

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Thinking Bodies:

A conversation with Deanna Peters

it, so I got in early and that 's how I got funding to get all the creative education in communications that I have done. But when you renew for DTRC, you pay based on a percentage of your performing income only. Like Peggy Baker's situation, this doesn't represent the actual working life of a dance artist. What about choreographing and getting paid, about teaching and get-

a dance company. It ended up being a social activity with

ting paid? DTRC's emphasis is on performing only. Most of my

my friends; we would get together and have 'dance camp'.

income comes from teaching, performance fees, but they don't

I was often the leader because of my personality.-- So the

ask about that. Not to mention those of us who earn income

switch came because I wasn't fulfilled by only dancing. Last

outside of dance to ensure our continued future as performers.

year, I focused on working with my peers, because we are on the same level and share values around working in dance.

AK: It's a bit like the musicians' union that seems to work on the

I wanted to invest in people my own age, and get out of the

assumption is that you are an employee in a pit band…

hierarchical nature of the dance process. We are trying to manifest changes in the culture.

CP: It's a rhetoric and a narrative that I battle all the time. I'm 35 and I look at who is getting hired: Often it is younger danc-

AK: If you imagine a future where that change has occurred,

ers, and I have resist the idea that I should be stepping out of

what would it look like?

my work and let younger dancers perform it. Another pressure I hear people talking about is the need to be virtuosic. Every

DP: I think things would be more open, more transparent,

time you fill out a form you have to resist that narrative. It takes

more artist-run, with less middle-man, middle-woman, mid-

energy to constantly email someone to say 'You don't have a

dle-organization; more direct access to audiences, moving

category for me!' The normal path is to conform and say 'okay,

away from interpretation into experience, dance that values

fine — I'll be a 'Miss', or 'contemporary', or I'll be 'other'. I started

the physical elements as opposed to moving into a stylized

using that term on my website, where it says 'dance artist' and

visual culture. Sometimes I feel like dance belongs more in

'other'.

the style section or the lifestyle section than the art section of the paper. Harnessing questions like: What is dance good for,

AK: Your website is interesting, both because it shows your work

what is it good at? Moving away from the dominant paradigm

as a web designer, and because of the way you have solved the

of who is getting opportunities: how do we share resources?

problem of presenting the variety of your professional activi-

How do we get away from the sickness of demeaning and

ties without collapsing it to a hierarchical structure. Not an easy

devaluing the individuality of dancers? It would also be where

thing do….

dance forms interact with other forms on a genuine level, it wouldn't be appropriating the style or visual aspects of other

CP: …I'm glad you think I solved it. The layout was inspired by

cultural practices. In terms of adjectives, I am thinking about

my training with Helen Walkley and Laban Movement Analysis. I

effectiveness, spirit, energy— these are things I want to see

had learned some aspects of LMA, like the notation, at SFU, but

more.

Helen is big on it as a system that can be applied to any form, so it is constantly re-interpreting ideas, and serves as a structure to

AK: Dancers who 'retired' used to go into an economic

analyze any movement, including two-dimensional patterns on

twilight of body-work, teaching and freelance employment.

a piece of paper. The structure of the website I built is called a

CADA, who you work for, and DTRC (The Dancer Transition

mosaic, and I came up with that because it de-prioritizes things

Resource Centre) work to improve the economic situation of

I didn't necessarily want to emphasize, like the stage work. It

dance artists. Are they successful?

does bring to the fore things like the playlists and the basketball project, and other things I am interested in. Investigating these

CP: I would say that in todays' dance world that happens as

existing interests is something I latched on to a few years ago;

soon as people graduate from school. That's one thing about

I wanted to understand what I'm really interested in and why

DTRC that is outmoded. I am a member and have been a

have I not been using these things in dance, so I started using

member since I graduated from school, because Brian Webb

my record player, clothes, and other quotidian aspects of my

and Heidi Bunting at Grant McEwan were really big about

life. For example: 'How does my movement training affect riding

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Dance Central September/October 2015

"The normal path is to conform and say 'Okay, fine — I'll be a 'Miss', or 'contemporary', or I'll be 'other."

Dance Central September/October 2015

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Dance Central The Dance Centre Scotiabank Dance Centre Level 6, 677 Davie Street Vancouver BC V6B 2G6 T 604.606.6400 F 604.606.6401 info@thedancecentre.ca www.thedancecentre.ca Dance Central is published every two months by The Dance Centre for its members and for the dance community. Opinions expressed are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent Dance Central or The Dance Centre. The editor reserves the right to edit for clarity or length, or to meet house requirements.

Editor Andreas Kahre Copy Editor Hilary Maxwell Contributors to this issue: Deanna Peters, Alex Lazarides Ferguson, Cheryl Prophet Photography: Katie Lowenn (cover), YvonneChew, Deanna Peters, Michael Sider, Kristina Lemieux (back cover) Dance Centre Board Members Chair Ingrid M. Tsui Vice Chair Beau Howes, CFA Secretary Margaret Grenier Treasurer Matthew Breech Directors Geoff Chen Susan Elliott Anusha Fernando Kate Franklin Kate Lade Anndraya T. Luui Josh Martin Starr Muranko Dance Foundation Board Members Chair Linda Blankstein Secretary Anndraya T. Luui Treasurer Jennifer Chung Directors Trent Berry, Kimberley Blackwell, Janice Wells, Andrea R. Wink Dance Centre Staff: Executive Director Mirna Zagar Programming Coordinator Raquel Alvaro Marketing Manager Heather Bray Venue and Services Administrator Robin Naiman Development Director Sheri Urquhart Technical Directors Justin Aucoin and Mark Eugster Accountant Elyn Dobbs Member Services Coordinator Hilary Maxwell

Thinking Bodies:

A conversation with Deanna Peters

my bike, cooking, and­' Wow! I have really good sweeping technique!' I am working on my body while I am doing these things, and I wanted to make sure my website didn't emphasize one aspect of my life over another. This is also where things are going in website design; the mosaic is a simple, responsive design that stacks and re-stacks. I also don't have a 'navigation' bar. Some people have asked for it but that just means they haven't looked at the bottom, where I have a portfolio for communications. I talked about this with my mentors and peers, and wondered if I should include these activities, and I am constantly refining, so things are getting shorter. I don't want to give people information in a flattened form. Like in creating performance, I am not interested in a passive audience; I want them to be active and invested.

SK: You describe yourself as a collaborator. What is a good balance between collaboration and other forms of work for you?

CP: I wouldn't want to claim collaboration as my main focus, but every process is collaborative. I am interested in individual vocabularies that develop during a process. I don't want to come in and dictate a mood, or narrative, or image. I always found that hard as a dancer, when someone comes in, and you haven't moved yet, but they have a full storyline 'You're on an island, and there has been a storm, and there are trees that have fallen down and you have to navigate that. Go!' I always found that extremely difficult, and what I learned about myself through those processes was that I can always relate everything through my body. Where are islands in the body? How does the water flow around them? I have to explore..

The Dance Centre is BC's primary resource centre for the dance profession and the public. The activities of The Dance Centre are made possible bynumerous individuals. Many thanks to our members, volunteers, community peers, board of directors and the public for your ongoing commitment to dance in BC. Your suggestions and feedback are always welcome. The operations of The Dance Centre are supported by the Canada Council for the Arts, the Province of British Columbia, the BC Arts Council, and the City of Vancouver through the Office of Cultural Affairs.

AK: I was interested to see that you are working on a collaboration with a drummer, with Ben Brown. Having collaborated as drummer with dancers, I remember how difficult that can be‌ DP: It can, but our history is based on an improvisational process and many years of working together. First, Ben had an interest in accompanying dance, since he was at Sarah

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Dance Central September/October 2015

McLaughlin Music Outreach Centre and Arts Umbrella.

He sought me out, and we started a working relationship where he played for my classes. I said: 'Now that I have live accompanist, I am going to make phrases in 11/8, with complex patterns, syncopation and so on. He had an idea for Music and Movement Mondays. The first sessions was just the two of us. Since then Ben has built it up into a regular community event and I've helped him with posters and teaching. An opportunity came up this summer and we said 'let's work on it together.' We were looking for precedents for an improvised music and dance act. We were surprised by how little we found: Twyla Tharpe and David Byrne, Louise Lecavallier and David Bowie (here we go back to dance as style), and a few college theses...

AK: Cunningham and Cage?

CP: That's the prime example. We tried to take away the givens, and did a gig at a bar, without bios, programs, just the two of us on stage, and I have a microphone. The audience has no idea that I am not a musician, and we began with the idea that the audience would have to be involved, as they come to understand what we are experimenting with. Ben's mandate was that it should be musically interesting, which he found hadn't always been the case working with dance. It was really great to have mandates, so that we could throw things aside if they didn't meet what we were looking for. The skill is to be yourself, in the moment. That's also happening with the basketball team…

AK: I was about to ask...

"What I learned about myself through those processes was that I can always relate everything through my body: Where are islands in the body? How does the water flow around them?

I have to explore."

DP: That also came out of Laban. I did an assignment in

clarity and commitment to the task. That has been a struggle for

Helen's course about basketball, because I want to see

some people.

what dance is good for. So I analyzed basketball. I was really into it as a kid, I love watching it, and I thought:

AK: I imagine it would be an interesting situation to have a

Wow— dance lives here. If I could get the ear of a player, I

dance partner—the ball—who is mostly absent or at a distance.

could really help them with their technique, and vice versa, I wonder what can I learn? Why do people like watching

DP: Yes, that and the basket. Through Laban I have identified

basketball? Why is it so exciting, why is it so engaging? Is it

the space, and the axes that exist, and how they are constantly

because everyone knows the rules, or because it is based

moving, but the temptation is always to do something 'more'

on a clear idea of success and failure, with a lot of freedom

with it. We have a gig at Dance in Vancouver, and people on

in between? When Dancers Playing Basketball started

the team are asking: So what are we going to 'do', but the real

meeting I could see in peoples bodies a desire to make it

task is to stay focussed, and not get waylaid by questions like

into something it was not, and I kept saying: 'No, we are

'What do I look like?'. And, hey, I can get more people out for

just learning to play basketball! It's not performative, it's

basketball practice than dance class, and as a producer, that is

specific and task–based, and 'expression' comes from the

a nice thing.

continued on page 18 Dance Central September/October 2015

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"If you see the human in confederacy with the non-human, then the human is just one element, and my materiality is just one element in this structure that is partly arising from me, and partly from all the other materialities that am a coactant with."

Dramaturgies of the Self A conversation with

Alex Lazarides Ferguson

AK: Aside from your work as a freelance artist and coArtistic

make petroleum, and then the transformation of petroleum

director of Fight With a Stick, you are working on an drama-

and ‘resource’ materials into commodities, and then how the

turgical research project. What are you interested in?

commodities are exchanged and how they influence human and nonhuman interaction—looking at the process of trans-

ALF: It is a two-year project, based on the notion of develop-

formation all the way through that and building a dramaturgy

ing a geological and meteorological dramaturgy that one can

around it. If I do it right, it won’t actually be a 'drama' –turgy,

use in devising and structuring performances. It is an attempt

not even a post-dramatic one, because that is still a dialogue

to develop a reflective tool for artists. I like these kinds of

with the dramatic, while you could say that meteorological

models as provocations for thought, not to dominate the

and geological processes have no conversation with it. Now

creative process but to keep in the mental background when

whether the human creating the dramaturgy i.e. me, can

I am in a room with people, so that you can step back and

escape that dialogue remains to be seen, and also whether

assess the work, and perhaps shape it, while respecting the

the human as a co-actant with other vibrant materialities,

structure that emerges.

brings its culture into the process, as opposed to the culture of the other materials. If, as Jane Bennent attempts to do, you

AK: How do you reconcile the different time scales involved

see the human in confederacy with the non-human, then the

between meteorological and geological events?

human is just one element in all that, and my human materiality is just one element in this structure that is partly arising

ALF: I should have said, meteorological, climatological and

from me, and partly from all the other materialities that am a

geological—different time scales but inextricably linked

'coactant' with.

processes. I have been thinking about whether I should stick with one or the other, but I am also extending the geologi-

AK: The way the term dramaturgy appears in this context is

cal into the manufacturing process, as part of a process

broader than the conventional use…

of transformation. It is hard to extract one process from another. And then I am looking for the dramaturgy of trans-

ALF: Yes, I note that it’s other-than-dramatic dramaturgy,

formation, such as marine animals and the materials that

both obviously in a binary with the dramatic, but also an atDance Central September/October 2015

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Dramaturgies of the Self

AK: Acoustic ecology uses a similar approach. Have you ever done a soundwalk?

Critical Movements:

A conversation with Alex Lazarides Ferguson

tempt to create a kind of independence from the dramatic. It really should be a completely different term.

AK: That's the question that presents itself with dramaturgy when it steps outside the conventional narrative frame, because it seems to be inherently tied to concepts of duality, and negotiation and a controlled point of view...

ALF: I should put in the description of the project that part of it is a search for an alternative term to 'dramaturgy'.

AK: ‘Dance dramaturgy’ is now a ubiquitous term. When you use the word, do you have a sense of how you apply it, in an academic context or in creating performance?

ALF: I find it automatically a problematic term, particularly when I am working with a dance company as a 'dramaturg'.

My thinking until recently has been, for me or the other artists making a thing, that it is a compositional strategy or a structural way of looking, whether it relates to what in theatre we think of as drama or not. We can't really avoid the term, and in some ways I am leery of adding this to my proposal, but in the research it isn’t just a theorizing or contemplation of a process or structure or a way of making, it is also an examination of our own materiality. If everything else is being brought in as a co-actant or a confederate in this assemblage, one has to reflect on what is one's agency, materiality, subjectivity, and intersubjectivity in ‘theatre’. I am designing the application for an interdisciplinary jury, and as people see theatre as very conservative, I talk about it as contemporary performance rather than theatre. The whole thing is an examination of self, in a sense. My favourite Tibetan guru says 'you need a guru'. I dabble in Buddhism, or rather in meditation…

AK: That would involve its own dramaturgy: an attempt to shape or control forces that aren't easily marshalled.

ALF: Yes, and I often want to put that kind of thought in, because it seems perfect when you want to talk about self as a fluid, or conscious and perception as a dispersed thing.

AF: No, although I know about them. The closest I ever got was a blindfold walk which is a kind of soundwalk.

AK: Blindfold walks force you into a certain sensory mode, whereas a soundwalk is a kind of seduction. The interesting thing is the act of deliberately immersing yourself and ‘composing’ by guiding and observing your awareness.

There is a dramaturgy to a soundwalk which very much depends on the number of people and the space, and an interesting aspect of both a meditative process on then one and a compositional one on the other, which are traditionally considered to be opposites.

ALF: Yes, in the meditative process, things arise, while in the compositional they are directed.

AK: There is something about the term dramaturgy as it appears in dance that negotiates the tension between these states. In a recent conversation with Heidi Taylor in the last issue of Dance Central she described the many different processes that she participates in, crossing disciplinary boundaries and working on projects where the process isn't concerned with creating drama necessarily, but where a pragmatic form of witnessing and reflection seems to matter most. It may also be a function of the sheer volume of work— ALF: —and also reflect the lineage of the Playwrights Theatre centre and its alliance with theatres, as a service organization, with the expectation that work gets produced. It was different with her company, Proximity Lab where the work was often sited, and situated outside of the traditional dramaturgical model.

AK: Perhaps one can describe the tension like a tectonic structure, between a dramaturgy that encompasses a set of strategies that create a particular experience for an audience, and a form that concerns itself with aiding the process of creating work. Media has added a whole new set of conditions for dramaturgy, and then there is something closer to what you are describing for your research project: a manner of investigating, or demarcate a field of inquiry, a structured form of play like Hermann Hesse's Glass Bead Game…

ALF: Yes. I was actually thinking about a game called Assemblage, where you win by dispersing your perceptual

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Dance Central September/October 2015

"We can't really avoid the term dramaturgy, but in the research, it isn’t just a theorizing or contemplation of a process or structure, or a way of making, but it is also an examination of our own materiality."

modes as widely as possible,

AK: That evokes a realm of dramaturgy that is concerned with the process of negotiating or encountering something, not limited to a structural dialectic, but a more fluid set of interrelations, where the term ‘drama’ becomes a liability.

ALF: One of the things you find in investigating this are the constraints of language. You are searching for a new metaphor that combines other metaphors in a novel way that allows for a ‘Eureka!’ moment, when you find that it's not one set of relationships anymore but now it's another. And that's one of the great challenges in trying to write and talk about this; not necessarily, but mostly contrary to the structuralist and post-structuralist ideas. I don't think that dancers necessarily think in terms of semiotics and semiology, but we are constrained by language, because we end up in paradox and in a binary situation. We need a better, a new set of metaphors. I'm thinking of George Lakoff and Mark Johnson's book Metaphors We Live By. They used neuroscience to argue that metaphors are built on sensory motor experience, which leaves the question how we can escape, expand or refine these metaphors so we are not overly constrained.

AK: This is reflected in the problem of translation, and the need to find analogy or devise a new way to experience a metaphor between languages.

ALF: Exactly, and that's why we have performance creation as research, where in practice you escape from metaphor by doing.

AK: The difficulty being that once you step outside the established frame of reference, you have to find a way for an audience to follow. I remember Dylan Cree’s Conference on the Conference at SFU where you and Delia [Brett] performed both a lecture and a dance performance, in an endlessly recursive frame of reference, and the strategy to leap beyond both the lecture mode and the theatrical mode.

AF; That was part of a political agenda as well, which I encountered in different post-graduate seminars I have taken, where I felt politically compelled to challenge the pyramid structure of the university, and my fellow students aspiration within that, to open their eyes to what we were all partaking in, and who we are supporting economically and politically by taking part continued on page 18 Dance Central September/October 2015

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CRITICAL MOVEMENTS:: A conversation with

Cheryl Prophet

AK: You have been active for some time as a choreographer and dancer, but particularly as an educator. How do you find dance training and teaching is evolving?

CP: I think it has developed tremendously, especially compared to the time when I was a young dancer training, in the traditional modern dance techniques and ballet. There are so many more choices now for dance students , the traditional dance techniques of course, but also improvisational and release –based techniques, and the most current Gaga, to name a few. With these, different approaches to dance teaching have developed in order to adapt to the needs

"It is now accepted that if you work in an efficient and intelligent way, your career is no longer over by age forty, and your dance training doesn’t end before you even begin."

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Dance Central September/October 2015

of todays dancers and choreographic demands. I remember a time when whatever dance technique you were training in, whether it was ballet or modern, there was little deviating to another style, although most dancers did train in other forms such as jazz and tap.

This began to change around the mid seventies. I was in Montreal at that time, performing and going to New York regularly (on the cheap all–night bus), taking classes and workshops and that's when I discovered there were more options for training. You could continue to get rigorous traditional dance technique training but what you would now call somatic practices were beginning to appear. Around that time, the Montreal dance started to flourish. Many of the so–called ‘independent’ dancers and choreographers met regularly for the technique class at Linda Rabin's studio, which later became LADDMI, an important professional training centre. That’s where I first came across many dancers arriving with bags of different–sized balls to roll around on to do their warm up, release work, and learned about using them this way. Different t kinds of dance workshops were being given everywhere, and dancers realized that there were different training methods and ways of warming up. Around that time, many of the Montreal dancers also started to do fitness-oriented weight training to strengthen their upper body, probably because choreographers were influenced by the work of Édouard Lock, whose women- especially Louise Lecavalier—were strong enough to lift men. Choreography was changing the demands for women: you had to have upper body strength, and you weren't going to get it in a conventional dance class, so you had to go beyond the dance studio to find what you needed. Of course, Contact Improvisation was also already quite established in the dance communities in Montreal and Vancouver. Around 1990, when I moved to Vancouver, I encountered Pilates, as an amazing movement practice to combine with dance training. I met Diane Miller who had brought Pilates to Vancouver in the late 80’s, and studios were appearing everywhere. Then Yoga became increasingly prominent. Of course some dancers had been combining it with their dance training for some time, but now it became ubiquitous.

Along with dance training, teaching changed tremendously.

For myself, I felt that whatever I was going to teach, I had to understand physically, and I had to embody the principles. , So I began immersing myself gradually in the so-called body therapies or somatic practices and took many different workshops, looking for different ways to enhance my own physical facility, to get stronger and more flexible, and to bring them into my teaching. There were many movement practices to choose from, such as Alexander, or Feldenkrais or Body-Mind Centering, but in the mid-nineties I decided to get certified in Laban Bartenieff Movement Studies, and to become a certified Movement Analyst, or CMA.. One of my colleagues, Iris Garland, had been teaching a course using this material and as she was close to retirement, we were thinking about who could teach it. The more I learned about this system, the more curious I got and I decided to go to Montreal for the two year certification program that was offered at UQAM. I went thinking it would inform my teaching, not realizing what it would give me as a dancer and a choreographer. It was endlessly fascinating, and a wonderful awakening. I thought: okay that is another bit of knowledge and approach I can add to my dance teaching

in it. I look at the theorists, Derrida, Deleuze, Guattari, Judith Butler, who had non-heteronormative family structures; so on one level their challenging of structuralism and academic structure was a case of marginalized people fighting to create a space for themselves and others. I am not marginalized in that way, but the reality of my life has been a precarious existence, so I appreciate the experience they come from.

AK: Among many artists, there is lack of faith in language, metaphor and what we have inherited as dramaturgical models or principles. There is also an absence of faith in the body that I observe dancers talking about, a kind fracture ALF: Yes! I find it fascinating that semiotics became much more dominant in dance as an analytical tool than it was in theatre, which is supposedly language-based, but dance seemed to embrace it as an analytical system in the 80s and 90s, which is curious; why would so much importance be placed on language when it seems to be a body-based, experiential practice? Perhaps it is a case of wanting what you don't have. Certainly when I first worked as a dramaturge in dance, I brought all the wrong tools, In retrospect,

but there was a lovely creative component to it that would later influence my choreography. To be clear, it isn't a technique per se, but a methodology with a framework for experiencing and observing movement, a philosophy and a rich source of knowledge for understanding human movement, and really useful for sharpening observation skills.

When I created my first choreography, a solo, after completing the CMA training I didn't realize what a tremendous influence on the creation of this dance it had been. I was going to dance it myself, but then I decided I would create it for Holly Bright, and when I looked back, I realize how much my choreographic choices had been informed by the intensive two–year period immersed in the LMA material. By then, I was going to Pilates regularly, loved it and completed six intensive teacher training modules taught by Dianne Miller. The combination of theory and practice deepened my understanding and recognizing its value for dance students I decided to offer it in a course called

Cheryl Prophet is a dance educator at SFU, choreographer and Certified Movement Analyst with specialization in Laban Movement Studies. Since receiving her BFA from York University in 1974, she has been involved in the professional dance community in Canada as a dancer, choreographer and teacher. Formerly from Montreal, she performed and toured nationally and internationally with Le Groupe de la Place Royale, Fortier Danse Creation and Fondation JeanPierre Perrault and was active as an independent dancer and choreographer in Montreal and Vancouver. Since relocating to Vancouver in 1989, she has been on the dance faculty at the School for the Contemporary Arts. She specializes in somatic approaches to dance training and injury prevention, and integrates Bartenieff Fundamentals, Pilates and Yoga in her teaching. Her choreography has been presented locally, nationally and internationally.

Movement Fundamentals that combines body conditioning with a somatic approach. I also became certified in the Eric Franklin Method, as a Level 1 Teacher at the Vancouver Pilates Centre which brought together dancers, Pilates instructors, and physiotherapists from the Vancouver community and elsewhere. It was a different and incredibly useful approach, and I realized that all these various movement practices shared underlying principles of how to be a coordinated mover, how Dance Central September/October 2015

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Critical Movements: A conversation with

Cheryl Prophet

not as much exposure to contemporary dance. But they are eager, and when they audition, we talk about dance in a university setting, and dance in an interdisciplinary department, and what our program offers, and they come and take a tour through the facilities, and have their audition class. A lot of them don't know what they might want

to move with a sense of flow, and how to avoid injury. I

to become yet, whether they will teach, or perform; some

teach many young adult dancers, just out of high school,

want to take combined degrees to combine their dance

with different levels of technical skills, and I feel that I re-

training and education with careers in teaching or move-

ally have to have more than one way to teach them, and

ment therapy, and some students come from kinesiology

all these different movement practices now inform my

and are thinking of a career in health science.

teaching. So yes, methods have changed tremendously,

Another thing I love that has changed is that we are not

and I think we teachers recognize that there are differ-

as mean as some of the teachers of the past. None of my

ent ways to train dancers, especially with different body

colleagues are interested in that, nor are any of the many

types, movement experiences, and training backgrounds.

fine teachers working with young dancers today. When

I know I had to immerse myself in different approaches

I think of my early years training I had many amazing,

and methods to supplement my own dance training

inspirational teachers but some were brutal, in the old

practices and that has really made me a better teacher.

school way in which they had been taught, in one case I recall hitting our feet with a stick to get us to pointe more.

AK: You mentioned students at age eighteen who have

Another change is that it is now accepted that if you work

had no experience outside of whatever form their initial

in an efficient and intelligent way, your career is no longer

training took. Do you find that they expect different kinds

over by age forty, or your dance training doesn’t end be-

of training now compared to the past?

fore you even begin, which happened for many dancers because they had too many injuries to continue—possibly

CP: I think they demand to be challenged physically, and

because their teachers didn't have enough knowledge and

as performers. They love to dance; that is still the same.

experience to adapt their classes for these individuals..

Dance students in their first year at SFU are introduced to

There is more emphasis on the fact that we are working

different forms and styles of contemporary dance, which

with young adults, with their own unique challenges and

is an awakening for many of them, to a larger dance

strengths, and that we want them to work intelligently and

world. By the time they are in third or fourth year, they

be their own teacher.

are so much more informed and experienced and getting ready to become part of the Vancouver dance commu-

AK: It is safe to say that university students are now na-

nity. The biggest difference compared to the past, is that

tively digital. Has that affected your teaching work?

they have been training and receiving a dance education

14

in a university, and more importantly in an interdisciplin-

CP: Oh yes! I recently taught a course on collaboration/

ary environment at the School for the Contemporary

composition, and the students' level of digital ability was

Arts, where they have many opportunities to collaborate

absolutely astounding to me. This is a relatively new

with students in other disciplines. It is very interesting

course, aimed at first-year students from film, dance, mu-

to observe how senior students have grown artistically.

sic, visual art, and theatre, who are put together to work

This year I am teaching first years and the advanced

in teams. Right from the beginning they started making

technique classes, and the younger students sometimes

videos. They were totally at home in a computer lab, and

have trained only in one studio, perhaps not in a large

were part of the editing process. For the film students it

urban centre, they have been involved in the competi-

was second nature, but the dance students were right in

tive circuit (which we don't advocate, but it continues

there, and the level of sophistication of the projects was

to be part of so many dance studios) and a lot of them

amazing. They had great technical facility, creativity and

come with a hip hop, jazz, or ballet background, but

beautiful artistry.

Dance Central September/October 2015

"These days, if you get a chance to work with a choreographer, there is an expectation that you should be able to participate in the creation of a work, ready to improvise, maybe sing, even bark, and to move out of your comfort zone, as part of the creation process."

were challenged in a really positive way by the collaborative aspect.

AK: Thinking back twenty-five years, 'Dance theatre' was a popular concept, and many performers crossed over between discplines. Contemporary interdiscplinary performers, like Billy Marchensky, when asked about the relationship between the two, says he thinks of them as parallel but different universes. Are students still interested in merging forms?

CP: This may be showing my age, but trends come and go. In my time in Montreal in the mid-eighties when the FIND festival was in its prime, and many European companies came and presented their work, it was so new and so exciting, especially the Tanztheater work of companies like Pina Bausch with its theatricality that it took the dance community by storm. It certainly influenced a lot of the young choreographers in Montreal, but over time they moved on to slightly different forms, and then it became pared down or changed to reflect the times.

AK: Many young dancers are comfortable using media and interactive technology. Does dance training include other aspects of stage skills, such as voice training?

CP: Of course you can't be a master at everything, but these days if you get a chance to work with a choreographer there is an expectation that you should be able to participate in the creation of a work, ready to improvise, maybe sing, even bark, move out of your comfort zone, and for a lot of performers that sort of thing has become part of the creation. process, As I said, I think it started with the influence of Pina Bausch. When I was dancing with the Group de la Place Royal I remember Jean Pierre Perrault and Peter Bonham decided to use singing in several choreographies,

AK: Do you think that their realtionship to media affects

so they brought in voice coaches and we trained, ear-

how they think about movement and performance?

nestly, but of course you don't become a trained singer in a few months. But we were willing to take the risk and add

CP: Yes, I think it does. It isn't the only thing they do, of

another layer, I don't know if all dancers are all comfort-

course. There was real nice mix of integrating the technol-

able with that, but now you see we don't call them dancers,

ogy with live performance movement, sound, spoken work

we call them dance artists. There is an expectation that

and projections, there was a very sophisticated integration,

to be a dance artist you have the facility in your body, the

so the students using digital material and images worked

expressivity, or what we used to call presence, the ability to

very closely with the dance movement creators, and that

communicate on stage. There is a lot of crossover, and we

affected the way they came up with choreography. They

continued on page 18

Dance Central September 2004

15

Dramaturgies of the Self

Critical Movements:

they call it now, which applies to very specific actions. On the other hand, I have worked with machInenoIsy, of course.

A conversation with Alex Lazarides Ferguson

Delia is very image-based, working from a mental picture,

continued from page 11

and she has acting skills from film, so there my brain is working on genre, space and image. Daelik works less pictorially,

to the process of creating dance, because they were theatri-

but sets up exercises and draws from what emerges based

cal strategies, which for me were largely psychological realist

on Gestalt. I think I am in the middle. With all the artists that

tools. Seeing the result with people who hadn't trained in act-

I tend to work with there is a dissatisfaction with the human

ing was horrible, and I thought ‘Oh what have I done?’ All the

figure as the central carrier of meaning and affect, and an

things I liked about dance — the lack of plot, the dominance of

interest in both turning the body into an object— which has

the moment—were opposite to this kind of ‘dramaturgy’. Even

a long history in dance, of course—but if you think of mid-

today I run into dancers who want to learn theatre skills, and

century developments in dance, like Pina Bausch's expres-

mostly I find it gets in the way, because they don't have the

sivity of the internal state, coming back to what you could

time to get advanced skill—for example in switching genre, or

call object status, they are interested in the scenography and

register—and if they act they can collapse the spatial experi-

placing other objects and materials on stage. They may not

ence to the psychological. It can work, with the right perform-

go as far as we do in theatre where we often think about sets

ers, of course.

and other nonhuman materialities. I find an increasing interest in shrinking the human, and placing it on a more equal play-

AK: How do you approach dance dramaturgy now?

ing level with other elements. To me, this seems necessary; socially, ethically, environmentally, and aesthetically, as a way

ALF: I come with a lot of respect for what they are doing, and

to move forward, to break patterns and reassess habits.

I ask 'why do you want a dramaturg?', especially now that it

AK: The relationship between dramaturgy and scenography

has become almost mandatory, and I see other dramaturges

is interesting, especially as it is more common to find both

who make similar mistakes I did. So I ask what they want

represented in devised performance projects. They overlap

me to do, and they may say: ‘I just want to make sure that

in significant ways—one can think of scenography as a form

the parts don’t look random’, or sometimes they want a help

a dramaturgy applied to space, and of dramaturgy as a mode

with a specific task, like my work with Shay Kubler, where he

of scenography that articulates interiority, but I rarely find that

did want a very specific actorly approach for each moment

conversation taking place inside projects.

in a five minute sequence. He wanted a room to imagine, to do very specific things in his mind and physically. With that

AF: Yes, that is why I find it interesting in working with FIght

I could help. I could use late Stanislavski 'active analysis' as

with a Stick, where everyone crosses disciplines—not to the

"I observe an increasing interest in human, and placing it on a more e level with other elements. To me, necessary; socially, ethically, envir and aesthetically, as a way to mov to break patterns and reassess ha 18

Dance Central September/October 2015

point where I can run a lighting board, but to the point of being able to ask intelligent questions; and the conversations

ALF: Yes. Narrative. You come across that all the time, but of

are very broad. The term dramaturgy should be really open,

course that means something very different to every single per-

where you feed into the process, or it should be very specific

son. Is it the internalized movie structure we are accustomed to?

— what is your job? In German state theatres your role might

What about performances that are discursive, where plot move-

be historical research, or to liaise with the audience, to do

ment is secondary? I like structure, and even formula, but people

casting, or take over form the director; so they have a lot of

often apply a very flaccid dramaturgy that is neither philosophi-

diverse skills and training, whereas here in Canada we often

cally provoking nor challenging to the audience. I don't know

just fall into the role. That’s why I always begin by asking

the answer, and it doesn't matter to our work as much as having

‘What do you want the dramaturge to do?’ Sometimes it can

people who are interested, and able to share power.

be part of the scenographer's role, or it might be a sound designer, who many directors find to be excellent dramaturges

AF: It sounds like you have found situations that you enjoy, even if

because of their attention to rhythm. What is the specific role

it isn’t ‘dance’ per se.

of the dramaturg? It’s an irritating term. Sometimes, when I have been hired to work as a dramaturge in dance, I am

ALF: Yes, and in fact working as a deviser with director Stephen

being asked to be the choreographer's brain. That's not the

Hill and architect Jesse Garlick on der Wink at the Russian Hall a

right relationship. If people rely on me to talk to the lighting

couple of years back, we created a work that Justine Chambers

designer, then really they need to know more about lights. It

described as some of the best dance she had seen in a while. It

can't be a relationship where they just focus on movement

was mostly about moving forty 4' x 8’ walls around the audience.

and somebody else becomes an intermediary. I use the term,

Dance? Theatre? I like to call it contemporary performance.

but I find it problematic.

AK: Sometimes theatre seems content to use dramaturgy as a AK: Can you think of a different term, or role?

content management system, whereas dance, at least outside the standard choreographic model, has been asking dramaturgy to

AF: There are some dramaturgs who just observe, and at

ask new and interesting questions—and the role of the witnessing

some point ask really good questions. The question is al-

dramaturge is an interesting one…

ways: What do people want the dramaturge to do?

AF: I Think the interesting work is based on a specific idea, like a AK: Paula Danckert (of the NAC and formerly Playwrights

really good research question, or an interest in the materials, and

Theatre Centre in Montreal) would immediately answer

the faith that something interesting will come out of a situation

'story'…

where we can set up a lab, and explore, and talk, and a set of aes-

n shrinking the equal playing , this seems ronmentally, ve forward, abits."

thetic principles will emerge that guide the thing. For myself, all of my academic work has been a dialogue with performance, a case study, where I explore a theory in performance that I try to put into practice. As I have become more 'scenographically minded', my interest has moved toward spatial genres, and exploring the relationship between spatial modes and metaphors. Not thinking about character or script, and that has led me toward light and sound, and hence even more to thinking about objects and how we fulfill desire through objects, as 'actants'. That is how I arrive here.

AK: Thank you!

Dance Central September/October 2015

17

Thinking Bodies: A conversation with

Deanna Peters continued from page 7

AK: Going back to your work with Ben for a moment, I am reminded of Justine Chambers' work with a musician for SPLAY, which consisted of a never-ending moment of preparing to perform. It points to an interesting place, between activities, neither inside or outside, trying not to collapse presence into performance mode.

DP: I am very interested in that. When I teach at Mo-

"It was really great to have mandates, so that we could throw things aside if they didn't meet what we were looking for.

The skill is to be

yourself , in the moment."

18

Dance Central September/October 2015

dus Operandi, I ask them 'When did you actually start preparing, or warning up, or getting into your body?' I am trying to promote a culture of not having to activate them, of everyone arriving ready to work. There is so much work to do before we arrive in the room.

But that philosophy has also been debilitating at times, and made it difficult to be in dance. I had to do a lot of soul-searching, since I stopped working with Kokoro, for example, where people made me dance every day.

Now I have to make myself dance all the time, and in a way the thinking about the in-between could make you feel like you are always working, and therefore don't have to actually dance. But I am inspired by the idea of dancing for a long time. I remember that Barbara Bourget once looked at a grant application I had written, and she got really upset because I had described myself a 'mid-career' dance artist. I said 'That's the terminology the Canada Council wants us to use', and she said 'But by saying that you are in mid-career, you are believing and living that. You're 28. Why don't you want to be in mid-career at 40 or just not think in those terms?' She was right, and the 'in-between thing' can be a way to stay in my own work, even if I don't get paid. Fortunately, I am at a place where I can support myself outside of dance in order to facilitate my own thing, and explore my interests.

AK: Is there something I haven't asked?

DP: I'm glad you didn't ask me about the Iris Garland Award, because I am trying to resist the temptation of saying what I am going to do. There are a lot of assumptions—it'll be at The Dance Centre, with seats, and a stage, and I don't want to let that dictate what I will do...

Critical Movements: A conversation with

Cheryl Prophet

continued from page 15

require our students to take courses in other disciplines

Edge, or Dances for a Small Stage, in studio showings

as well as interdisciplinary courses so they are exposed to

or other informal venues that attract diverse audiences.

different kinds of performance training. We often discover

Each generation will find their own ways to get their

that we have wonderful singers and actors within our

work out. There is a lot of site-specific work happening

dance program.

again; that is something that has been reinvented from the 'post-modern' era and continues to be of interest. At

AK: Education is shaped by many different forces, not all

the School, we keep the discussions going with our stu-

of which are concerned with the people to be educated. If

dents, we offer our support and guidance, we facilitate

you could change something about how dance education

apprenticeships with choreographers and local dance

takes place, generally, what would you change?

companies and we now offer a credit course in internships, which helps them get some arts-administrative

CP: I think we all do the very best we can. In my case I try

experience, and helps them see if they are interested

to be alert to what is going on around me, continue to pass

in arts administration as a future career. In any case,

on what I have learned and enhance how I teach it, Danc-

many of our students are out there working in the dance

ers often start their training at an early age; often in their

community, teaching, performing and creating excellent

local dance studio, and that is where their dance education

work. I’m so proud of them.

should begin. It should not just be about dance training. but what it means to be an artist—which doesn't mean

AK: What's next for you?

competitions. Young dancers should be learning about dance as an art form, and not just the technical training.

CP: I am having a blast right now; it is going really well,

They should be encouraged to see dance performances

and I get inspired by my students; they are really intelli-

and get inspired by international and local artists. Teachers

gent, they have initiative, they are really focused and you

should nurture the artist in the student, give them oppor-

know they are going to take what they learn and make it

tunities to create, to find their way through improvisation,

their own. I'll see them performing on stage, and that's

and give them the tools, information, and experience to

very exciting for me. It has been an interesting journey.

become their own teachers, be free of injury and go into

I love my teaching, and it feels like it is getting better

different situations with confidence.

and better. I have been really inspired by these different movement methodologies and approaches, and I am

AK: Performer training in the past often assumed that the

pleased when I see how it informs my students. I love

artist would eventually become an employee, of an institu-

the collaboration course and I am really excited to teach

tion or a company. Now artists typically find that they have

that again, I also feel like I am stronger dancer—and I

to manage themselves, as a small enterprise or as part of

think I will always feel that I am a dancer. And I know

a collective. How can young dance artists get the tools to

that I am going to continue to choreograph, and based

survive in that environment?

on my experience in working on the duet I created several years ago with Milton and Aryo. I want to get back

CP: Fortunately there are places like The Dance Centre, that

to working with actors in some way, because so many

offer workshops on grant writing, and the Dancers Transi-

of them are such physical, great movers and of course I

tion Resource Centre has been instrumental in offering

will always work with dancers.

workshops and advice on the kinds of strategies you will need to support yourself once you finish training, but it is

AK: Thank you!

really tough. You have to take the initiative, whether you’re working individually or in small collectives and find opportunities to get your work seen, whether it’s Dancing on the

Dance Central September/October 2015

19

Dance Central

September/October 2015