Dance Central November December 2016

November/December 2016

Dance Central A Dance Centre Publication

Content Convergences A conversation with Hong Kong Exile Page 2

New Aesthetics Performance Intensive 2017 A conversation with James Long Page 8

Welcome to Dance Central

Collaborations: A conversation with Hong Kong Exile: Natalie Tin Yin Gan, Milton Lim, Remy Siu AK: While you come from different disciplinary backgrounds and individual practices, you call your company 'interdisciplinary', which is a term that has changed meaning a number of times in Canada, particularly in how funders define it. In what ways do your practices converge, and where do they diverge?

ML: We all attended Simon Fraser University (SFU) and trained in differ-

Welcome to the holiday season and to the final

ent artistic disciplines; dance, theatre and music respectively. We have

issue of Dance Central for 2016. We are happy to

all branched out since then, especially with the development of our

announce two new projects that will continue

individual practices. Natalie had done a lot of theatre training on top of

throughout the coming year: A series titled

dance, and is now also doing some performance art. Remy developed a

Collaborations that will focus on artists' collectives

new media practice on top of his music composition practice, and I have

and on dance projects that involve artists from

a movement background from my theatre training and from performing

other disciplines in roles that challenge the model

in some of Natalie's work, and I have started to develop a new media

of choreographer/performer/designer. For this

practice as well. When we come together for Hong Kong Exile work, our

issue, we begin with Hong Kong Exile, an interdis-

roles are based on the projects we are engaging in and we sometimes

ciplinary artists' collective that creates new perfor-

overlap. Sometimes one of us might be a dramaturg, sometimes a de-

mances and installations, integrating movement,

signer, and sometimes a performer. We try to keep fluid in the positions

theatre, music and media.

we occupy in the company, because we operate more like a collective of individual artists.

Our second feature is a conversation with James Long of Theatre Replacement, in anticipation of

RS: Perhaps I have the most stable role in our projects. I guess we di-

their 2017 New Aesthetics Performance Intensive,

verge in that both of you come from performance backgrounds, which I

which will bring Viviana Tellas (Argentina) and

definitely don't, and I don't have to work with a lot of people for sus-

Miguel Gutierrez (US) to Vancouver. This marks the

tained periods of time. We work with musicians but that is perhaps an

start of a series called Evolving Bodies which

hour at a time. And I do even less and less of that these days, because I

focuses on dance education, from basic training

am trying to consolidate my practice so that I can do it by myself. In that

to professional development.

way, I may be the most introverted in terms of my practice.

Our series of First Nations dance artists will con-

NG: I think one of our convergences, in terms of why we came together

tinue in January with a portait of Jerilynn

in the first place, and which are observable through-lines within our work

Snuxyaltwa Webster. As always, we thank all the

over the years is cultural and political themes, although Remy hates it

artists who have agreed to contribute and we wel-

when I get capital–P political...

come new writing and project ideas at any time, in order to continue to make Dance Central a more

RS: Not true! I do not hate it! Only when it gets didactic. But that's a good

vital link to the community. Please send material

point about the through-line. One of our most important convergences,

by email to members@thedancecentre.ca or call

and themes that we involve ourselves with, has to do with being part

us at 604.606.6416. We look forward to

of the Cantonese Canadian diaspora, or in a broader sense, of the Asian

the conversation!

Canadian diaspora. That I think is the central convergence, because we are getting pretty divergent in terms of disciplines and in how we like to

Andreas Kahre, Editor

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Dance Central November/December 2016

shape our practices individually.

Photo by Milton Lim

Convergences

"I need a holographic cast."

Dance Central November/December 2016

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Collaborations:

A conversation with Hong Kong Exile

RS: I don't feel segregated, or that some form of segregation is being imposed on us by the performing arts or the dance community. Of course there is lots to talk about in the theatre community—I’ll let Milton talk about that—but outside

AK: Choosing a name like Hong Kong Exile does point people's attention in that direction. In what way is it important for you to emphasize the Cantonese aspect, and to distinguish between that and an Asian exile perspective?

RS: I think we have gotten more and more specific over the years about it being Cantonese Hong Kong diaspora, as opposed to before when it was generally Asian diaspora, especially as we learn and gain more experience.

AK: In what way do you experience yourselves being in exile?

RS: We were all born in Canada, but we are all first or, depending on how you define it, second generation Canadian, as all our parents were born in Asia. Whether we are in exile is a question that is always changing, as things change in Hong Kong, in us, and globally. What brought my family here, is that my grandparents saw what might happen in Hong Kong after 1997 and decided to leave early. Another aspect is that more recently, as the situation in Hong Kong develops, more people are talking about leaving, and finally it is about the role we play as first generation Cantonese Asian diaspora during these events. What it means to have the 'privilege' of being in Vancouver, of being able to say things we couldn't otherwise say in Hong Kong and how we got here and are in our current situation — all of that informs our thinking.

AK: In the performing arts in Vancouver, the Chinese community, both artist and audiences, have a long history of being segregated. There has been some movement toward inclusion, at least in a symbolic form, such as 'colour-blind casting' and the complaints made about the racial inequity of public events like the Jessie awards. Do you perceive a change, and how do these questions inform your work?

NG: Despite naming our company Hong Kong Exile, we are insistent that we make no assumptions when we begin projects, about what the work will look like and whether or not it will engage cultural politics. However, certain perspectives and ideas come out of us quite organically because of who we are and the kind of conversations/concerns that we have.

of the ‘artistic ghettos' that sometimes come up, I find that we do not work with the traditional materials that could be described as— NG: Chinese-y?

RS: Yes, ‘chinese-y'. Or something overt, traditional or contemporary, from the outside, that could be segregated based on that. In that way, I believe we don't try to segregate ourselves.

ML: Certainly the diversity discussion in theatre and in the performing arts has been very active recently and I daresay, trendy, because now there is funding behind it and institutions are attempting to respond to the social pressure to change. On the one hand these developments are great to see, but on the other, I’m a little wary of buying into it too easily, especially without speaking more directly to some fundamental questions about artistic form and our institutions. I feel that many of these discussions — in theatre, anyway — are still being fed through the same old structures, just with different faces. In part due to our training, I feel that we are a little bit more flexible in our practices and are able to follow different trains of thought that aren't so caught up in tradition. Artistically speaking that gives us a lot of opportunities to speak more clearly to what interests us rather than try to fit into categories, both in form and in content.

RS: It played out very clearly for me in my own practice. I was trained in Western music composition and notation, and I was very excited about that. I still use that a lot, but at the same time, when I was thinking many years ago about how do I engage with some of my own music, or my culture, there was an impulse to write for traditional Chinese instruments, but that didn't seem to me like a solution, because I don’t feel that those instruments belong to me. At the same time, playing the Western European music game, I felt like somebody in Germany is going to do a better job than me, and when I work with traditional Western instruments they don’t belong to me as much as they do to people who really love them and studied them. I really didn't love either: European chamber music, at least in the same way that some of my colleagues and peers and teachers were, perhaps

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Dance Central November/December 2016

"When we make work central to Chinese language or Hong Kong politics, it would be violent if we pretended that we are from there, or that this is our day–to–day experience, but as Remy pointed out, what is it about the distance and our Western upbringing: what is that distance? That is the Hong Kong Exile part, the familiarity and the foreignness; when we are in Asia we remain foreign and when we are in Canada we appear foreign to some.

That is the exile."

Dance Central November/December 2016

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Dance Central The Dance Centre Scotiabank Dance Centre Level 6, 677 Davie Street Vancouver BC V6B 2G6 T 604.606.6400 F 604.606.6401 info@thedancecentre.ca www.thedancecentre.ca Dance Central is published every two months by The Dance Centre for its members and for the dance community. Opinions expressed are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent Dance Central or The Dance Centre. The editor reserves the right to edit for clarity or length, or to meet house requirements.

Collaborations:

A conversation with Hong Kong Exile because I came to it later in life, and the same with Chinese instruments. The question in my practice, as I drift toward digital media and away from chamber music composition, and engaging in an interdisciplinary practice, is: 'Well, if I remove this and I remove that, what do I have left?' I'm not

Editor Andreas Kahre Copy Editor Hilary Maxwell

going to write music for traditional Chinese instruments,

Contributors to this issue: James Long, Natalie Tin Yin Gan, Milton Lim, Remy Siu Photography: Milton Lim, Sepehr Samimi, Davey Calderon, Tim Matheson

in the past—but I don’t think that's an answer to finding an

Dance Centre Board Members Chair Beau Howes, CFA Vice Chair Josh Martin Secretary Margaret Grenier Treasurer Matthew Breech Past Chair Ingrid M. Tsui

AK: That transitional state reminds me of a work you made

Directors Carolyn Chan Angeline Chandra Eve Chang Susan Elliott Kate Franklin Anndraya T. Luui Starr Muranko

Kong Exiles' choice of forms: You create performances,

Dance Foundation Board Members Chair Linda Blankstein Secretary Anndraya T. Luui Treasurer Jennifer Chung Directors Trent Berry, Kimberley Blackwell, Praveen K. Sandhu, Janice Wells, Andrea R. Wink, Dance Centre Staff: Executive Director Mirna Zagar Programming Coordinator Raquel Alvaro Marketing Manager Heather Bray Venue and Services Administrator Robin Naiman Development Director Sheri Urquhart Technical Manager Shawn Sorensen Accountant Elyn Dobbs Member Services and Outreach Coordinator Hilary Maxwell Member Services and Development Assistant Coordinator Anna Dueck The Dance Centre is BC's primary resource centre for the dance profession and the public. The activities of The Dance Centre are made possible bynumerous individuals. Many thanks to our members, volunteers, community peers, board of directors and the public for your ongoing commitment to dance in BC. Your suggestions and feedback are always welcome. The operations of The Dance Centre are supported by the Canada Council for the Arts, the Province of British Columbia, the BC Arts Council, and the City of Vancouver through the Office of Cultural Affairs.

and I'm not going to mix the two either—although I have expression that I find comfortable.

about the role of the piano in China, where forty million students are now learning to play Western keyboard music. And it echoes something that stands out about Hong installations, media work, and even monologues. How do you decide what format to work in?

ML: It very much depends on the content and on what skills we have available or who our collaborators are.

NG: It is also largely informed by what we are doing when we are not working together, what personal interests and aesthetics we are cultivating. When we come to the table, there may be an opportunity for someone to say 'I have been meaning to do this!', and then try to sell it to the other two. Also, because we never or very infrequently self-produce, the format depends on the opportunity and on how much time we are given.

RS: One advantage of being an interdisciplinary company is that we are asked by many different organizations to create work, such as by Music on Main, Theatre Conspiracy and PuSh International Performing Arts Festival, New Works, and CanAsian Dance. The source of the commission can prescribe a certain kind of output, but we are in the process of changing that. We want to start from what interests us. In the past, the source of the commission would usually determine who would act as the project lead, but now we can determine that ourselves and take turns. What distinguished us originally was that we came from three different disciplines, but that may become less important in the future.

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Dance Central November/December 2016

AK: You present yourselves as a collective, but you bring in

RS: Maybe this is something I imposed on how we see our

outside performers—do you perform yourselves?

trajectory, but I see us having begun with Phase I projects, we are currently leaving Phase II projects, and are now

NG: Not as a given. Sometimes we build works based on

entering into Phase III projects where these disciplinary

ideas for people we really want to work with in the commu-

distinctions don't mean so much any more. We have been

nity, or colleagues that we trust and want to provide opportu-

working together long enough that we are more fluid. The

nities for, so with some projects we know from the beginning

incoming changes at the Canada Council will also affect

with whom we wanted to work. Also, Remy doesn't like to be

how we can get funding for a project when we may no

on stage...

longer have to think how we position a project. Of course it will still be a question for how we articulate projects for

RS: I think that out of the three of us, I am the one who per-

the BCAC.

forms the most in our pieces, but I am not seen [Remy is often live-triggering sound and projection in the tech booth]. When

AK: Although we don't know yet what the juries will actu-

we do dance projects, Natalie takes on the choreographer

ally look like...

role, and in theatre projects Milton takes the director's role.

We were never a “performing” collective, though.

NG: Chances are that they will still be discipline-based, until there is a younger wave of artists who have multiple

ML: Even though we all perform, in different ways, we all

disciplinary practices and perspectives, and don't identify

tend to prefer being on the outside, not performing in our

in the traditional discipline-based way.

own works. We are also not as interested in disciplinespecific identifiers and prefer a more holistic approach to

AK: Looking at the documents of your work, I wonder what

collaboration. There have been times in the past when there

the body on stage means for you. It may be a function of

was no dance in a piece, and people have asked 'What did

what you selected, perhaps owing to the desire to focus

Natalie do?' even though she clearly brings more in her skill

on the integration of media and movement, but I noticed

set beyond just being a dancer/choreographer. We desire a

that in a lot of the video excerpts the body is being moved.

more open concept about the role and nimbleness of artists.

For example, I have seen Ryoji Ikeda-inspired segments

Our collaborators are often multi-talented and bring a lot of

of synchronized sound and light that confine and create

dramaturgical skills, perspectives, and their own personal

conditions for the body. This is very different from the con-

histories that we deeply engage in, both as friends and as col-

ventional dance presentation where the body defines the

laborators.

space and media augments it. SFU's performance training, at least in the past, tended to give precedence to the

AK: You have been working in this formation for five years. Do

performer. How do you make decisions about organizing

you have a sense of where the company is going as it devel-

the body and media?

ops? Is it a continuation, or do you find that it has taken on a life of its own?

NG: It's a tricky beast, and as a choreographer it is my role to choreograph the light, the sound and the body. Early

ML: Because we are project-based, we maintain a certain

on, when I was first confronting the imposition of digital

amount of control over our artistic output, as we are not

media on the body, people on the outside were quick to

tied to creating a 'season'. We try to keep our interests at the

tell me how the body can't win that battle, and that if you

forefront, along with our individual practices, so I think to

are trying to fight the digital, you are “going to make a fool

a certain extent we will always be fluid— how we diverge

out of the body”. Which led me to exploit that constraint.

and converge as a group. In general, expectations are hard; I

My inherent spiritual conflict with digital media is also part

consider us still quite young in our growth as a collective and

of that conversation, as a self identified dance artist, and as

as individuals, and we will have to see what happens in the

someone, unlike Milton and Remy, who is deeply reinvest-

future.

ing in the discipline I came from, because I departed from continued on page 14 Dance Central November/December 2016

7

Evolving Bodies A conversation with James Long

New Aes thetics For the past five years, Theatre Replacement has been presenting a range of performing artists in a two-week workshop titled the New Aesthetics Performance Intensive. The 2017 event will feature Argentinian theatre artists Viviana Tellas and New York–based choreographer and performance artist Miguel Gutierrez. The application deadline for the workshop is February 15th, 2017. For more information, visit www.newaesthetics.ca.

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Dance Central November/December 2016

AK: Theatre Replacement is inviting applications for its 2017 New Aesthetics Performance Intensive, with Viviana Tellas (Argentina) and Miguel Gutierrez (US). The New Aesthetics website offers a very well organized introduction as to who the artists are and what their background is, which leaves me all the more curious what they will be doing?

JL: That's a very good question. We will begin formulating that in the next few months when we get to converse with each other and determine whether there is a shared curriculum or if they are going to do two completely different things. The important thing for us is how they contrast each other. There is a generational difference as well as a big formal and also an aesthetic difference. However, they both teach really well, they both have pedagogical acumen and experience and that is important for us. Miguel is hyperprovocative. He is a troublemaker in a lot of ways, which is very exciting, while Viviana, or Vivi as she likes to go by, has a real elegance to her bio-drama work. Miguel's work is physical, and it involves song and video. He does whatever he wants, which is really exciting, and his work involves a really physical practice, as he also teaches Feldenkrais in New York. So he will be able to attract and satisfy the dance

community, while Viviana's is a softer approach, which will

we don't want it to be intense. It is a moment for mid-

likely be done in the afternoons where we will consider bio-

career 'submerging' artists like myself to come and relax

drama and how to tell personal stories and use biography to

for a moment.

inform work.

AK: This is the fifth workshop?

AK: Have they met before?

JL: The fourth in five years. Crystal Pite and Pol Heyvaert JL: They have not. This is our big introduction. As we have

did the first year, which was a real contrast to Toshiki and

done in years past with Toshiki Okada and Mariano Pen-

Mariano the second time, and then last year Sarah Thom

sotti, who have been a big influence on Viviana. There was

and Matt Hand from Gob Squad came, and that was

a crossover, and we facilitated Mariano and Toshiki to be

great. Their political philosophy around collaboration is

in the same room for a few days. In years past it has been

really interesting. Every year has been great for different

some work in the morning and some in the afternoon, so as

reasons.

we figure out detailed travel and time schedules we'll know how it will go.

AK: There isn't any expectation of a 'presentation' at any point?

AK: It runs for two weeks?

JL: No, unless everybody really wants to, and there is no JL: Yes; Monday to Friday, nine to five— protestant work

pubic showing. It really is about turning off and taking

hours during the day, which sometimes irks me but is also

time to think a little bit.

my natural tendency; I am a nine to five sort of person.

That's how it stands right now, and it might shift. The impor-

AK: Have you participated in all of them?

tant thing is that on the weekend in the middle we want to give people two full days off, because it is an intensive, but

JL: Yes, as well as Maiko. She was peripheral to the first and second but she creates a little book, a beautiful document, and you can find a lot of material online.

Left: Wa'laks Keante Tait and his niece Hlgut Aadii Kassandra, Photo: Kent Danielson

Dance Central November/December 2016

9

Evolving Bodies A conversation with James Long

JL: Up to twenty. We had sixteen for Gob Squad, and twenty is about the maximum of what the room and the conversation can handle.

AK: Where do people come from?

AK: What is the idea behind New Aesthetics?

JL: Everywhere in North America. From Halifax to White JL: It began with a conversation with Norman Armour, as

Horse, to Seattle, New York, and Portland.

many of these things do, and a conversation with Maiko. Theatre Replacement has a long practice of hosting workshops,

AK: Is it usually a mix of dance and theatre-based artists?

with anyone from Jillian Keiley to Nigel Charnock, and we have been interested in continuing a training practice for our-

JL: It's about people who do stuff on, or behind, a stage. We

selves, and for other people as well. We looked at the existing

have had directors, choreographers, dancers, actors, and

workshops in Vancouver, and found that many are geared

writers, in a constantly changing mix. We have also had

toward kids just getting out of school, or young artists, which

some media designers. At some point, everyone has to

is fantastic, and we decided to make ours about people with

stand up and do something or participate in a training regi-

a minimum of five years experience who are interested in

ment of some kind, but no one has been embarrassed.

convening in a room and throwing ideas around. We have kept that rule consistent, and the average age is now 35-ish,

AK: What kinds of questions are at the heart of New Aes-

or maybe toward 40 in some years, which keeps the conver-

thetics workshop?

sation in a very interesting place, built on experience rather than just curiosity; curiosity and experience. Then we decided

JL: It changes with the facilitators and with the practitioners.

to make it two weeks rather than one, because that allows

We certainly set it up with the facilitators to know that they

everyone a couple of days off in the middle of the learning

have to be responsive to the group's curiosities. You can't

experience, which is important, and then we talked to SFU

satisfy twenty people but you can hear what the tone of

and to Don Kugler and the next thing we knew, we had this

the room is. For example, Gob Squab was about the col-

program. We have had a couple of really good partnerships

laborative ethos and how you listen and bounce ideas off

with the National Arts Centre in Ottawa and with Canadian

each other, and make things together without getting in the

Stage in Toronto, who have sent people out with a scholar-

way of yourself or others. Pol was about ways to work with

ship, and with On the Boards in Seattle who sent a couple

youth, which became an endless and fascinating conver-

people up, so it has had a really good energy since it began.

sation, because Pol treated kids as adults, whereas others came in with real caution and with protocols. It got to be a

AK: It isn't exactly cheap...

very interesting and sometimes heated conversation, and it was really fun because we had also brought in six kids.

JL: It isn't cheap, but not too bad relative to, say, One Yellow

With Toshiki and Mariano, it was about mining personal

Rabbit's lab, which is great, but quite a bit more money, and

stuff and how to transform it into something beyond indul-

for two weeks, $1000 still seems affordable. But of course

gence. It was also about formal questions, especially with

we are always worrying about how we can make sure people

Toshiki whose methodology is so enigmatic and compli-

can attend. There is just not a lot of funding available, which

cated. If you see Five Days in March, it is about the process

makes it tough. We had Vancouver Foundation funding for a

of learning how to move, but not in a representational,

few years, but the theme of social innovation is now the twist

nor an abstract way, but this weird place in between. His

for everything. We do endeavour to find accommodation

instructions were translated by Manami Hara, so we are all

for participants and we help with billeting. The real trick for

just watching people moving and asking 'Am I doing this

people is that they have to take two weeks off work.

right?' and it was the people actively questioning 'Am I failing while I am doing this?' who were the most engaging to

AK: How many people participate?

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Dance Central November/December 2016

watch, and who looked most like Toshiki's own performers.

"We decided to make our workshops about people with a minimum of five years experience who are interested in convening in a room and throwing ideas around. We have kept that rule consistent, and the average age is now 35-ish, or maybe toward 40 in some years, which keeps the conversation in a very interesting place, built on experience rather than just curiosity; curiosity and experience."

AK: Do the sessions result in some kind of record?

of New Aesthetics, do those difference become apparent or significant among artists interested in 'devised'

JL: Yes, there are these beautiful little books that Maiko puts

performance?

together, and Tim Matheson takes a whole lot of archival pictures. We don't take video, because that would be pecu-

JL: It was interesting to experience the conversation

liar given the ethos of the event, but the books are essential.

when a dance artist like Crystal Pite was teaching, and

Maiko has made some beautiful work with testimony from

to watch non-movers and expert movers interact with

the participants, writings from the teachers. She also writes

her instructions. She was very conscious that movers

an essay, and there are lists of the music and literature that

and non-movers were paired, and interested in watch-

have been used in the workshops.

ing expertise and non-expertise collide in very specific physical exercises. To watch two virtuosic dancers is

AK: The cultures of theatre and dance differ in some ways,

fantastic, but sometimes it ends with the virtuosity, but

and in the 'middle ground' that is inhabited by a number of

the conversations between, say, Marcus Youssef and

performing artists, theatre makers have been interested in

Bryn Cohn, a live, gazelle–like dancer from New York

getting the audience to perform, whether based in an ap-

was fascinating. Marcus can move fine as a stage actor

proach like that of Rimini Protokoll — i.e. casting the audi-

but differently, and that's where the conversation was.

ence as 'experts'— or on activating them using media in

That's the goal for the conversation; to see these prac-

the urban environment. This is more difficult to achieve in

tices collide in space. In terms of a larger audience or a

dance, although work like plastic orchid factory's recent

public interaction, the doors of the workshop are very

Dance Party Digital Folk have made the effort. In the context

sealed. With Mariano we were sent out in the street Dance Central November/December 2016

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"I want some superstar dancers and superstar theatre makers, I want video people, I want a librarian; I would like anybody to come. Just people who are curious about how humans behave, move, perform, exist."

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Dance Central November/December 2016

Above: Kwhili Gibaygum Dance Group. Photo: Kent Danielson

to observe people, and bring back text and movement, but it

ground emerged, which now has developed into an

always remained in the sealed room.

'ecology' of practitioners who are no longer particularly concerned (aside from the funding structure) whether they

AK: In making what we still call theatre, be it by Gob Squad

are theatre or dance artists. Where do you think perform-

or Rimini Protokoll (or even Radix), I observe the attempt to

ing arts practice is going?

dissolve the boundaries between 'performance' and 'non-performed' life, or to let them intersect or interweave. Do the par-

JL: Sometimes I think we are swinging back toward vir-

ticipants in New Aesthetics share that goal, in your experience?

tuosity again, towards storytelling and fiction. We have moved in the last ten years toward pretending that we

JL: They will find that is exactly the work that Viviana does,

were putting the real on stage, with Rimini Protokoll's work

because she is of the ilk of Rimini Protokoll, or of Lola Arias,

in particular; they were the golden children of that move-

another really interesting Buenos Aires–based artist who puts

ment, and I think we are now pushing back. I think people

real people on stage and let's them tell their stories, similiar to

are curious about making stuff up again. That's why I am

Mariano's library piece. Those who show up for this workshop

curious about Viviana and Miguel: They have been golden

will certainly be influenced by that approach. And when you

children of that movement as well, and watching how they

think of Miguel whose work is so much about mining his own

are transforming their practice and how we can find a cen-

impulse — which is an impulse that exists as a practitioner of an

tral conversation inside that room that asks: 'Okay, what

art form but also as a highly politicized queer artist living in New

is the next step? We have done the bio-dramas. We have

York City— and if you look at his performances, what you see

done the reality on stage thing, the 'everyday experts'. How

is that they are highly virtuosic in a non-virtuosic way; the dra-

do we transform it into something that pushes back against

maturgical structure is virtuosic, and he dances and sings and

that tendency? Or I could just be an old artist...

speaks well, but it is always very human, and there is a collision between idealized forms of performance and the rough–and–

AK: Do you see a generational shift?

ready that he pulls from the public moment. It will be interesting and people will be shocked, I hope.

JL: I can think of examples in the community right now. I look at a company like Hong Kong Exile that is a product of

AK: Who would be the right participants for this event?

the last fifteen years of the conversation we have all been having. They are using elements of personal story, they are

JL: I want a mix, from all regions and practices. I think everyone

certainly digging into questions of race and culture, and

is going to find a way in, as both Viviana and Miguel have a long

they are celebrating fiction and high media in their work; it

teaching history and can work with anyone. I want some super-

is all coming together in a really interesting moment with

star dancers and superstar theatre makers, I want video people,

them. I look at at Company 605, which I lump in with our

I want a librarian; I would like anybody to come. Just people

group, but they are much younger and they are a virtuosic

who are curious about how humans behave, move, perform,

dance company making virtuosic pieces which I find excit-

exist.

ing. And I worry for young artists in this community: How are they going to live here? With five roommates until the

AK: Is there a particular part of the dance community that you

age of 45? I am a bit scared for the community and how

think should consider the invitation?

young artists are going to survive in this city. But I expect that will come out in the work and we are going to see

JL: People who are curious about form, about making their own

some really interesting poor theatre emerge in this place.

work, text, and any other formal deviation from the classic

We have come out of a relatively well funded era with the

dance form. I think highly trained dancers would take as much

Olympics and Arts Partners Funding, and it will be very

pleasure from this as people who started dancing later in life. I

interesting to see what happens next, now that we have

have talked to some dance people who are planning on doing it,

swung back into the poor theatre.

and I think it is primarily for those who are curious.

AK: Thank you!

AK: Since the days of Grant Strate and Iris Garland, SFU has been an institution where theatre and dance met and a middle Dance Central November/December 2016

13

Collaborations:

continued from page 7

A conversation with Hong Kong Exile it very quickly. It is almost like the body means more to me than ever, and so how I treat the body and the overall composition of the performance stage are like micro-and macro forms of dance, taking place simultaneously. I feel it is my role to see that both are present and crafted.

RS: Getting into light and media for me was driven by discourse in music. Coming to it in this context, I was already doing sound for dance and theatre and I realized very quickly that for me as a composer it was very much a subtractive process. I couldn't write the same music as I would for a stand-alone music piece, for example.

I take this same approach with digital light. In these HKX pieces, the light is relatively static, and that is the opposite of what it can be, so this discussion is a subtractive discussion. I can't get the light to do something in its own materiality without having it 'make a fool of the body', or I have to be very mindful, as does the body, and in my observation of how lighting is traditionally used in dance, the light is used in an additive way to moving bodies. This is not the case with our work. Natalie can’t do everything she wants to do, and I can’t do everything I want to do, so thank God we have our own practices where we can do what we would like. We have to subtract from our own approaches and find a middle ground. There is an attitude some people have of dance that if you take away all the other elements, the dance should stand on its own. I don't think our work is being made from that perspective. If you took away the light, or the body, or the sound, or any element, I think it would all fall apart.

NG: That is what we see as interdisciplinary; i.e. for me the dance is everything: the fog, the darkness, and it includes the body.

RS: And in staging it is really interesting to have things out of frame, at the edge of what is perceptible.

ML: Again, we take quite a holistic approach to composition, that goes beyond a disciplinary boundary but can borrow from distinct artistic languages. From the theatre standpoint, I also resist a common sentiment of friction or dichotomy of opposition between human or performer presence and technology. Our generation has grown up mediated by so much technology, and we are living in it — I like to think that our humanness and our use of technology are not mutually exclusive. We tend to not perceive them as opposing tensions, but instead we assert that digital media is another language, one which we use to converse every day, and which is at our disposal both as artistic utility and as communicative language.

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Dance Central November/December 2016

"From the theatre standpoint, I also resist a common sentiment of friction or dichotomy of opposition between human or performer and technology. Our generation has grown up mediated by so much technology, and we are living in it — I like to think that our humanness and our use of technology are not mutually exclusive.

We tend to not perceive them as opposing tensions, but instead we assert that digital media is another language, one which we use to converse every day, and which is at our disposal both as artistic utility and

presence

as communicative language."

Dance Central November/December 2016

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AK: Looking at images of your work, the presence of Chinese

RS: Our limited capacity to read will change in the next couple

characters stands out, and that suggested a metaphor for

of years. We are going to learn to read better, and that may

your interdisciplinary approach: Ideograms are inherently

also change the way we use characters.

transformative in that they can manifest as text, as sound, and as gesture, all flowing into one another in a performa-

ML: I can say, as someone who is engaged in projected text

tive act. I wondered if, apart from having ‘chinese-y' aspects

that my interest is in breaking apart the language so that we

in the work, you approach your work from a transforma-

can read it in those many different directions as you suggest.

tional idea, or more from a Western disciplinary additive strategy, adding elements to text and the body. There are

AK: How do your audiences react, and are there differences

many ways of organizing material of course; another way of

between Asian and other audiences?

asking the question is whether you start from your 'home' discipline(s) or do you use a different approach?

ML: We are a project–based company and because we are often presented by festivals where we don’t have as much

NG: My first instinct is to express my real inability to shed

control to cater for a specific audience, we often put our work

my Western training and the Western frame of reference

out for the festival audience, but we particularly create work

through which I look at performance, and that is something

that is of interest to us, that perhaps connects more deeply

I try to shed all day long. Whether I can be born and raised

to Chinese diaspora, and hopefully it speaks to many people

here, train at SFU, speak primarily English, benefit from liv-

living the plural Canadian identity. We have a good group of

ing on unceded territories… and really be successful in the

people who follow our work, but compared to other com-

shedding is neither here nor there, but the material I choose

panies, we don’t consider them 'our audience’ per se. We

to spend time watching, listening, researching— is based on

consider the work we are making and that it might speak to

an attempt to de-colonize my perspective and my point of

certain topics or people, but we don't try to assume too much

view, and what I was taught to be—good.

about who they are.

RS: I am trying to think whether you are suggesting that Chi-

AK: How do you experience their reactions?

nese language platform is a meeting point?

RS: The scariest audience we could ever perform to is a room AK: I was thinking of the character as a hyper-object, that

full of Canto people...

functions in multiple dimensions and can be read as an interdisciplinary performance act that can be read as text,

NG: You make it sound like we are exotifying ourselves...

sound and image. That made me wonder if you approached interdisciplinary work from some similarly integrated way.

RS: No, it's just that we have our experiences as Cantonese diaspora, and we have friends and families, but when we are

ML: I think for us it really came out of what Natalie speaks of

speaking to people from Hong Kong, or Taiwan, or Mainland

as the gaps or desires, and perhaps the tensions of existing

China, maybe it’s that we can project the least about what

as Cantonese or Asian Canadian diaspora, and to have the

they are going to think about the work. I went to Hong Kong

iconography of the language, and the language itself, pulling

in January and I was having lunch with Hong Kong artists and

us in different directions. This one is harder to speak to for

they said: The piece you did, it's very clear that there is a dif-

me because I am the only one of the three of us who doesn't

ference in your approach as someone who spends time in the

speak Cantonese.

West...

NG: And none of us read Chinese characters very well. The

NG: I would never shy away from the fact that we are making

benefit of that is that we can especially appreciate Chinese

work from that perspective; when we make work central to

characters for their aesthetics, see them as shape, space,

Chinese language or Hong Kong politics, it would be violent if

and negative space, and animate them as such. Of course,

we pretended that we are from there, or that this is our day to

technology allows us to always be able to translate.

day experience, but as Remy pointed out, what is it about the distance and our Western upbringing: What is that distance?

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Dance Central November/December 2016

That is the Hong Kong Exile part, the familiarity and the

foreignness; when we are in Asia we remain foreign and when we are in Canada we appear foreign to some. That is the exile. I think we have not necessarily been too nervous about excluding English

Collaborations:

A conversation with Hong Kong Exile

speakers, seeing as everything panders to English speakers, and therefore why would I feel the need to do that? Personally, it matters to me that I am not. If I am making work fuelled by my own lived experience, and making work that is relevant to Vancouver, then it is going to have a lot of colours and shades and languages to it, and because I don’t speak any other languages other than Cantonese, it makes sense, and what I really appreciate in touring a piece like NINEEIGHT, despite its historical specificity, the gesture of it can be read in numerous cultural and linguistic contexts, and that is feedback I have had from audience members. I think we also appreciate a challenge for audience members. And maybe you don’t get to get it.

Maybe there are secrets that are not for you to know...

ML: A parallel statement is that we have an interest in the subjectivity of everyone’s experience of the work and for that reason, we are not as concerned as to whether our work is exclusive or not. I think in our work we are quite forward about pushing that ‘not understanding’ is okay place to be.

RS: With each project, we are digging deeper and deeper into our practices, and it is getting very specific for us. From the audience perspective, this is the approach we have right now: It's okay if there is one person that gets that joke or reference or symbol or whatever.

That's who it's for. Hopefully there is more, but when we think about our audience, we are thinking when they come to see our work, we hope they are okay if they don’t get everything.

AK: What is next? Anything you would like the dance community to pay attention to?

NG: We are getting ready to remount Visitors From Far Away to the State Machine for the PuSh Festival, and Room 2048 in April, and then the Migration Path project with Theatre Conspiracy right after, which is a co-production with fu-GEN Theatre in Toronto. But I don't know if we will ever be 'dancey' enough for the community.

RS: I think that is past. I think in the next decade we will see these silos really eroding, from an artistic perspective, from an economic perspective, from a policy perspective, this is going to change on all levels, and we won't have to worry if we are 'dancey' enough.

NG: I am not worried, but I think it will take a lifetime for dance education and the deep roots of archaic dance tradition to change. There are extremely few choreographer schools— dancers are just dancing

RS: There are a couple, like Concordia. But not many.

NG: Many of which have only appeared recently. I am talking about undergrad training.

RS: I feel like choreography has not really de-coupled itself from dancing.

NG: There is also what you might call the 'Lang Lang syndrome'; as with Chinese pianist Lang Lang's fame which boosted the piano's popularity, now you have hundreds of millions of dancers who have just spent their entire lives, blowing all their cash, and their parents’ cash, just to dance.

It's the only thing they know how to do.

RS: That is happening with the 'classical' musician…

NG: And hopefully, by then, we will all have a basic income, and we will be able to go broaden our curiosities, investing in what our personal practices will look like. But then the market would be flooded with too many artists...

RS: I think if we have basic income, or some kind of system that provides the basic needs—the 'market' wouldn't work that way? Maybe I’m being naive.

ML: Even with basic income, theatre is always going to be too expensive.

NG: That’s what Virtual Reality is for!

RS: There are things coming that will be very disruptive; not just technology, but the kind of economy we are going to have to survive in. It will be a good and a bad strain on creators to rethink their personal practice and what is sustainable. In the first place what is unsustainable for me is to hire performers.

ML: So you got rid of them.

NG: I need a holographic cast.

AK: Thank you!

until it is assumed that they can make art.

Dance Central November/December 2016

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Dance Central

November/December 2016