Dance Central November / December 2014

November/December 2014

Dance Central A Dance Centre Publication

Content Migrant Bodies A conversation with Ginelle Chagnon Page 2

Migratory Conditions Mirna Zagar Page 6

Stable Instability A conversation with Ron Stewart Page 8

Undivided Colours An excerpt by Christine Fletcher Page 12

Welcome to Dance Central.

Ginelle Chagnon started her professional dance career in 1971 with Montréal’s Les Grands Ballets Canadiens. In the 1980s she reached towards contemporary dance and also began to teach and play the role of rehearsal director. Collaborating in many creative processes and understanding the insider's point of view (the dancer's) as well as the outsider's perspective (the choreographer’s and the spectator’s) prepared her way to assist Jean-Pierre Perreault as of 1993. Currently, she is assisting choreographers Paul-André Fortier, Sylvain Émard, Heidi Strauss and other dance artists in their creative process. Aside from being alumni of the part-time faculty at Concordia University's Contemporary Dance Department, she regularly guest teaches creative process workshops in Canada and abroad.

Also a board member of the Fondation Jean-Pierre Perreault, she is defining new ways of caring and understanding the legacy of Quebec’s contemporary dance repertoire.

This issue focusses on issues of boundaries —as they appear in current projects and in individual practice. We present a conversation with Montreal-based dance artist Ginelle Chagnon who describes her experience working alongside the other artists in MIGRANT BODIES, a two-year international research project that brings together dancers, writers, and media artists in an interdisciplinary investigation.

The Thinking Bodies series of performers' portraits continues with a conversation with Ron Stewart and his reflections on negotiating dance and bodywork and the experience of working in an intergenerational project.

For Critical Movements, we are presenting an excerpt from Christine Fletcher's keynote address at the UNDIVIDED COLOURS symposium that took place at Scotiabank Dance Centre earlier this month, in preparation for a full-length essay and publication that will be available at the end of the year.

As always, we thank all the artists who have agreed to contribute and we welcome new writing and project ideas at any time, in order to continue to make Dance Central a more vital link to the community. Please send material by mail to members@thedancecentre.ca. or call us at 604.606.6416. We look forward to the conversation!

Andreas Kahre, Editor 2

Dance Central November/December 2014

AK: Migration is a theme that covers a vast range of subjects, from issues of identity, power and economics all the way to anthropology and the natural sciences. How have you and the other participants approached it, and how are you turning it into an artistic response?

CG: Thinking that this project is somewhat of a utopia, I wonder how one can easily voice a single answer, a simple point of view or a one-layered response to the overwhelming subject matter. Because of the enormity of the subject, it will take time to gestate these thoughts and feelings into works that are ready to be directed towards an audience. You can apply the theme of migration to almost everything in life, including the fundamental fact that the earth that we stand on is in motion; that therefore we are in motion and in transformation. In that sense, the theme of this project can apply to almost any living thing. The most interesting path is to consider the multiplicity of points of view on the matter and hope that we may eventually complement each other in our work. As you are exposed to different aspects of the concept of migration, it is important to observe what exactly affects you, what obsesses you, and if you entered the project with a specific idea, to integrate the new perspectives you encounter, and to individually dwell on something and find a way to transform that affect, which I believe is the nature of the artistic act: We dwell on something, and eventually we hope that the effect of this obsession can be put into a shape or a form and sent out so that it affects someone else.

So how do we as different individuals dwell on the notion of migration, which might be the history of immigrants, or about the fact that nothing stands still, or the effect of longing to be somewhere else, or wondering what we call home? The strength of this project will eventually manifest itself in multiple ways and voices and will hopefully become meaningful to an audience.

AK: Do you know how did the theme of migration was chosen?

migrantbodies

A conversation with Ginelle Chagnon

Dance Central November/December 2014

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Dance Central The Dance Centre Scotiabank Dance Centre Level 6, 677 Davie Street Vancouver BC V6B 2G6 T 604.606.6400 F 604.606.6401 info@thedancecentre.ca www.thedancecentre.ca Dance Central is published every two months by The Dance Centre for its members and for the dance community. Opinions expressed are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent Dance Central or The Dance Centre. The editor reserves the right to edit for clarity or length, or to meet house requirements.

GC: This obviously somewhat political theme came from the organizers at the five choreographic centers that are at the

Editor Andreas Kahre Copy Editor Hilary Maxwell

core of the project. Since it is a burning hot topic in most Eu-

Contributors to this issue: Ginelle Chagnon, Christine Fletcher, Ron Stewart, Mirna Zagar Cover Photo: 'Black and White', Pichet Klunchun Dance Company

to Canadians, it is a really good way to gather artists around a

Dance Centre Board Members Chair Ingrid M. Tsui Vice Chair Gavin Ryan Secretary Margaret Grenier Treasurer Roman Goldmann Directors Matt Breech Susan Elliott Anusha Fernando Beau Howes, CFA Kate Lade Anndraya T. Luui Josh Martin Starr Muranko

Dance Foundation Board Members Chair Linda Blankstein Secretary Anndraya T. Luui Treasurer Jennifer Chung Directors Trent Berry, Kimberley Blackwell, Grant Strate, Janice Wells, Andrea R. Wink Dance Centre Staff: Executive Director Mirna Zagar Programming Coordinator Raquel Alvaro Marketing Manager Heather Bray Services Administrator Anne Daroussin Development Director Sheri Urquhart Technical Directors Justin Aucoin and Mark Eugster Accountant Elyn Dobbs Member Services Coordinator Hilary Maxwell The Dance Centre is BC's primary resource centre for the dance profession and the public. The activities of The Dance Centre are made possible by numerous individuals. Many thanks to our members, volunteers, community peers, board of directors and the public for your ongoing commitment to dance in BC. Your suggestions and feedback are always welcome.

The operations of The Dance Centre are supported by the Canada Council for the Arts, the Province of British Columbia, the BC Arts Council, and the City of Vancouver through the Office of Cultural Affairs.

ropean countries, and certainly a subject that is very familiar common question, and everyone became exhilarated by the idea. Each choreographic centre then invited artists in their community to apply for this project by voicing their interest, and chose one choreographer, alongside a videographer and an author. The core of the team met for the first time last July in Bassano del Grappa, Italy, and were immediately launched into different aspects of the theme of migration...

AK: ...which involved a lot of driving, judging from the blog.

GC: Ah, yes we have been on the road meeting people, learning about animal migrations and about all kinds of fantastic aspects of the theme. We have traveled quite a bit, but especially in our minds. The questions have been: How do you digest this information? Where do your heart and your mind take you? Most important to the research process is the question: 'How do you transfer the information you receive into your practice? That takes the longest time, and it doesn't always work as you expect. It is an interesting way to organize a project. It is destabilizing, and it can be overwhelming at times, but it is a very interesting process to go through.

AK: Do the artists think of themselves as co-creators, do they constitute a collective, or perhaps a swarm? Given the many possibilities, was there an intended constellation, or was that left open to develop organically?

GC: Each participating artists is unique, and they all have different interests and needs. So far we have managed to individually work at processing the information, to share physical practices and to engage into many discussions. As a team, we did create a 'platform'—a protocol that allows people to exchange ideas, to voice opinions in a small group format or as part of a larger sharing process with an audience. This was quite well received in Bassano and in Zagreb. We then

4 Dance Central November/December 2014

migrant bodies A conversation with Ginelle Chagnon

went towards individual creative acts, more along the lines

be difficult, especially if you are a generous person and want

of what could be thought of as 'product'. The men teamed up

to support the collective process.

in Montreal to do some research and the women worked on their own. Here in Vancouver, everyone is working alone.

AK: You have been referred to as a 'mentor' in some of the descriptions of the project. How do experience your own

AK: If the formal frame of the performance had been prede-

presence in the centre of this process?

termined, it would be a different kind of project, I imagine, especially when filmmakers and writers are involved as

GC: I declared right at the beginning that I am not a 'mentor' in

equal co-creators rather than as designers or documenters

this project. No one could possibly be a specialist in migra-

of a production, since they can't just 'shut up and dance'.

tion and I am joining this group of artists as a dance artist myself. I take part in all the activities, and I am another voice

GC: Of course not, and these artists are intelligent and

in the circle. I am there to accompany the creative process of

sensitive to the goal of the project, and they are not show-

my colleagues and to process as well on my own. It is quite

ing evidence that they are approaching it just as a career

challenging to accept the fact that not everyone whishes to

boost. At the same time, I feel that at times and in different

be helped, or that they may not yet be ready for this 'accom-

ways, this research has been overwhelming for each of us.

paniment'. I try to gently encourage their individuality, to give

As we are visiting our fourth city, and will soon be in Vitry-

feedback when needed or wanted and to understand where

sur-Seine, we will have been, by Christmas, on a six months

they are trying to go. It is like every creative adventure, each

journey, interrupted only by brief pauses. What we are at-

day has it’s ups and downs.

tempting to do in the studio at the moment—individually or in discussion—is the “gestation” process. Soon, the subject

AK: Which sounds similar to your role in Triptych (an interna-

matter isn't going to come to us anymore but we will be car-

tional collaborative project initiated by Roberto Casarotto in

"That's what we do: We obsess.

We dwell on something, and eventually we hope that the effect of this obsession can be put into a shape or a form and sent out so that it affects

someone else."

rying it in our awareness for perhaps many years to come. It

2013) which you facilitated. Is it?

may settle more deeply into each individual, but with this in hand and in heart, we will have to create, and enter into the

GC: No, because Triptych was about researching the creative

production part of the process. How do we transfer all this

process and not necessarily about making finished works.

information? How do the artists protect themselves by shut-

Triptych was just pure research in the medium and in crossing

ting out for a while as to access individual process? That can

continued on page 7 Dance Central November/December 2014

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The Migratory Condition A year ago, about this time, Migrant Bodies, an international

November, for example, brought us a Classical Indian

project, co-financed by the European Union, and created in

Dance Festival—Gait to the Spirit—, followed closely by

partnership with Comune di Bassano del Grappa [Italy], La

the International Flamenco Festival, and then the following

Briqueterie - Centre de développement chorégraphique du

weekend, the Undivided Colours symposium and perfor-

Val-de-Marne [France], The Dance Centre [British Columbia],

mances. Over the course of two short weeks, we have had

Hrvatski institut za pokret i ples [HIPP] [Croatia], and Circuit-

the opportunity to encounter some of the most exquisite,

Est centre chorégraphique [Québec] was launched in Van-

internationally acclaimed performers of today! I feel greatly

couver, on the tail end of the last edition of Dance In Vancou-

enriched by the experience and I am confident that those

ver. Each organization has selected three artists: A dancer/

of us in the dance community who did attend any one of

choreographer, a videographer, and a writer, inspired by the

these events will agree that these were unique and inspiring

theme of migration and its cultural impact. Accompanied by

occasions. I also have to wonder about the glaring absence

senior Canadian dance artist Ginelle Chagnon, these artists

of younger (dance) practitioners at these events as one ex-

have been journeying to Italy, Croatia, Canada, and France,

pects a genuine curiosity and eagerness typical of a young

where they took part in workshops and activities to develop

artist desiring to make their mark, which demands to make

their research in collaboration with other artists and mi-

use of exceptional opportunities such as these, as they are

grant communities they encounter, as they explore different

equally educational and exploratory. However, I also need

cultures and traditions. The videographers make a short-film

to remind myself that we are here to provide opportunities,

based on local context, and the writers document the project.

and it is who is there that matters and the fact that we do

The results will be featured in partner cities in 2015, culmi-

not necessarily recognize faces in the full auditoriums is in

nating in an international conference in Bassano del Grappa,

fact a great thing!

at the Operaestate Festival Veneto, one of the largest Italian multidisciplinary festivals. Migrant Bodies can be viewed as a

Our next stop of discovery is the PuSh International Per-

European/Canadian laboratory, in which dominant codes and

forming Arts Festival. This, our second season's partnership,

mainstream images in relation to migrations are questioned

continues to create new contextual relationships for The

and reflected on, with the goal of bringing the results of the

Dance Centre's residency program as we feature a resident

process to a wider community through the universal language

artist's work; this time MACHiNENOiSY. Partnering with

of the arts. The body of the artist is seen as the ideal medium

the PuSh Festival continues to offer opportunities to engage

to portray new identities that are coming into being as a result

with artists who explore and expand the boundaries of our

of migration across territories and continents, and provides

engagement with contemporary dance: From Belgian artist

an embodied starting point for a process of cultural, politi-

Lisbeth Gruwez whose spell-bounding performance brings

cal, and philosophical reflection. The artists are also invited to

together sound and dance in exploring the world of fanati-

consider migration in the broader context of natural phenom-

cism, to Congo-based Faustin Linyekula whose intimate

ena, such as the migratory patterns of BC salmon popula-

performance draws on the autobiographical story of his

tions, and the body itself as vessel and conveyor, as territory

homeland through a potent blend of storytelling, music,

and as landscape; as entity that records, registers, tells the

song and dance, to Sylvain Émard whose Grand Continental

story, of the migratory condition.

brings together popular tradition and contemporary art in a highly engaging and festive communal experience based on

Vancouver is a city that has been shaped and reshaped by

the expressive power of contemporary dance. I am looking

migratory patterns since its founding, and we at The Dance

forward to seeing you at some of these events which each

Centre experience the resulting intercultural processes on

promises an entry point to an inspirational journey.

a daily basis, yet I am always surprised how frequently we continue to experience different, fresh perspectives. Early

Mirna Zagar, Executive Director Dance Central September 2004

6

Dance Central November/December 2014

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migrant bodies A conversation with Ginelle Chagnon

paths. This is different. Five choreographers are facing a specific

AK: Is there any expectation, implicit or explicit, that

theme and we are asking them to respond, to create an evening of

'dance' should be the outcome?

works. The goal nor the path is the same, the dance artist’s starting point and journey are different, and so are mine.

GC: There is, of course, since all have a dance practice.

But given that these are artists of a certain maturity, we

AK: How does that shape your relationship with the writers and

assume that they will have freedom in how they want to

videographers?

voice things. So whether they choose to make dances for themselves or to express things in other performa-

GC: Since they do not travel from one city to another but meet the

tive ways is up to them to decide. This will affect the final

core group as it goes along, they have their own mandate. When

outcome of the project and will be a challenge to gather

available, they join into our activities. We are completely open to

material into an 'event'. Which reflects the multifacted

their process and invite them in as much as we can. What is im-

subject of migration itself in an interesting way.

portant is that they have just as much freedom, and that it is clear that they are not there to document our process, but that they are

AK: That brings us back to the question of what constitutes

equal artistic voices in the overall project.

'dance' in an interdisciplinary project like this.

continued on page 16

D a n c e C e n t r a l S e p t e m bcontinued e r 2 0 0 4on page 3 16 Dance Central November/December 2014

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a stable

3 8

Dance Central September 2004

Dance Central November/December 2014

Thinking Bodies: A conversation with

Ron Stewart AK: You are getting ready to dance in a show with Ziyian Kwan and Anne Cooper, in works by Tedd Robinson and Josh Martin in Vancouver—the first in some time. What have you been up to?

RS: Three physiotherapy sessions in 36 hours... I am living in diverse worlds right now.

I have been hosting retreats at my place in Metchosin, in a really interesting endeavour. I have teamed up with Pamela Madsen, from New York, in offering erotic embodiment retreats for women, and I just returned yesterday to start rehearsal working on Things Near & Far, which premieres on December 3rd at the Firehall Arts Centre. It feels like there is a link of age and time, and how they merge. And about training. My acupuncturist talked about how when the tone in the body goes away, the habitual tensions emerge...

AK: In the five years since you have shifted your base to Vancouver Island, how often do you get back to the city?

RS: For the first few years, I was happy to stay away from Vancouver, which felt really hectic. I had been wanting to move to a 'desert island' and Metchosin felt really right, but through life’s ups and downs, I am both happy to be there and happy to get away.

This year has been full of traveling: We did a retreat in Tuscany, from there I went to

instability

Barcelona, then to Rome, then back to Toronto and Quebec to create Tedd Robinson's work for things near&far. Next, I will be going to Hawaii, where I am offering a Skyclad Yoga retreat. It is a year bookended by travels.

AK: Do you dance when you are in Metchosin?

Vancouver native Ron Stewart's 27 year

RS: Not really. I moved there for a relationship, and renovated an old barn to be both

plus career in dance began in Montreal

a home and a retreat centre for my Skyclad men, and when I met Pamela Madsen,

and has spanned the country. After 4

a bold and fierce woman, we created a model for a small group of women, taking

years with Toronto Dance Theatre, Ron

them through interesting programming for five days, which includes bodywork, erotic

has primarily been working on the West

massage, embodiment exercises, and discussions about touch, sexuality, arousa, and

Coast with battery opera, Lola MacLaugh-

boundaries. We are giving them a space for conversations that they have never really

lin, EDAM and with Mascall Dance. Ron

been permitted to have, and the experience has been incredibly rich. I have worked

began dancing at the age of 23, when he

with people with crazy histories, and it is incredible to witness their journey. Some

moved to Montreal to study ballet with

have been abused, and blockaded, and through the conversations and through using

Russian ballerina Sona Vartanian. Prior to

qualities of touching based on permission and trust, you can watch the creation of a

that, he studied forestry at BCIT, where his

new alignment and a quality of intimacy, sensuality, sexuality, and see them develop a

instructors told him he should be an engi-

new script for themselves. It can be pretty chaotic, but it is amazing work. We just had

neer in the bush because he "moved well".

our tenth retreat. Talk therapy only seems to be able to take people so far, especially

When not dancing, Ron teaches naked

in this work, but re-enlivening the experience and having the ability to speak creates

yoga at Skyclad Yoga and studies a vari-

a whole other space, when we get honest with it. That wasn't offered to me. When I

ety of other body/mind training techniques

was thirteen, I remember going out in the world without anyone to talk to. It wasn't

including pilates, body/mind centering,

dreadful but I can think of a few experiences, which in an open culture—one where

gyrotonics and martial arts.

D awouldn't n c e C e n t rhave a l S e phad temb 2004 3 thereis permission to speak and share experiences— toe rhappen.

Ron Stewart: Photo: Alex Waterhouse-Hayward

Dance Central November/December 2014

9

We need a language about boundaries, 'permissioning' and trust, at so many levels many people don't know or possess the skills and the power to negotiate and articulate their needs, and their differences. 'No' doesn't always have to mean "Not ever, in any way" any more than 'yes' means "Do whatever you want."

Thinking A conversa

Ron St

AK: Renegotiating these boundaries immediately threatens the power balance and the economy of gender relationship. If we define our own boundaries, we cease to be useful subjects to the conventions of the social contract.

RS: Exactly, and yet why are we so hungry to hold to a model that doesn't work? Neither men nor women are getting what they want. Why not back up to 13, and learn that we can actually re-write the patterns.

AK: Is there a link to how you approach dance now?

RS: That's what I was very curious about. These retreat projects have created a differnt link to physicality for me, and I want to understand how it connects to my dancing, and I don't have an answer yet. Last year, I worked on a piece of Tedd Robinson's in Toronto, but it was a remount of an older work. Now, I am working with Tedd and Josh Martin in bringing a new work to a performance level, and that will tell me more. Of course some part of me thinks that I am dancing at the same level as before, but I recognize that I am not in the same physical shape.

AK: Does the fact that you, Ziyian Kwan and Anne Cooper are more mature dancers play a role?

RS: Yes, but in different ways. Josh Martin's work addresses our past, whereas Tedd's is addressing us where we are now. I hope this translates into the work in the sense of unity.

AK: Is it the same ensemble and two separate works?

RS: Yes, Tedd and composer Charles Quevillon are creating one work, and Josh Martin is working with Stefan Smulovitz on the other. James Proudfoot is lighting both. They are drastically different works, but some similar things show up, which may be in part driven by how the three of us interact in a room. The three of us have wildly different movement styles, and 'The Three Stooges' have come up as a reference more than once.

AK: But you have worked together for a long time.

RS: We have worked In various pairings, but never as a trio. That is something we didn't recognize until we started. It adds an interesting element, together with the generational dimensions of Tedd as a senior choreographer, Josh as a younger artist, and us hovering in the middle. It makes for an interesting pulsing.

AK: Do you think you will continue to wander back and forth between bodywork and

"I th we were with belief th world w a tower, four cor stable—a it colla Now the feels l spinnnin When spinnin it appe stable, bu it isn't, it b

very uns It allow chang

performing?

RS: When I left five years ago, I really put dance aside. It was a time when both my parents

10

Dance Central November/December 2014

D aDnac n e cCeeC ne t rnat lr aNl oSveep mtbeem r /b Dee rc e2m0b0e4r 2 03 1 4

11

Bodies: ation with

Stewart

hink e raised the hat the was like , set on rners, and then apsed. e world like a ng top. n it is ng fast t ears ut when

becomes stable. ws for ge."

had passed away, and that was mirrored in the last works with Lola, Provincial Essays which were about mothers, women and ovarian cancer, and Jennifer Mascalls work whaT? which was about fathers Both of my parents passed away during the making of these. That was hard. I also thought that if I were to retrain to do something else I wanted to do it before I turned 50. Now I feel a momentum that gives me the freedom to pick up projects like this one again. People have approached me from time to time, and sometimes I don't feel the pull, but this, I thought, was a really interesting set of questions to step into— the generational question, as well as the question 'Can you step out of your career, and later step back into it?

AK: Did you ever choreograph?

RS: Yes, for events likeDances for a Small Stage, and a short piece for Jennifer Mascall’s studio, but never for a full-length work.

AK: Is there a reason?

RS: I didn't have the urge to do the work that choreographers do—especially to write the grants...

I also find that I have a really hard time to commit to one choreographic idea, or a movement phrase. Sometimes I have ideas or concepts are strong, but the movement needs to be strong enough to fulfill it. I also find it easier to choreograph on other people than on myself.

AK: How did you start dancing?

RS: When I was seven years old and watched highland dancing at the Saanich fair, I was blown away and I told my parents: 'That's what I want to do!' They weren't enthused, so I got my neighbour to pretend she was the bagpipes, and I danced. Then I studied forestry, and only after I finished that did I run away to Montreal to study ballet.

AK: Did the forestry ever come back to haunt you?

RS: Yes, there is probably something of it that has showed up in the way I write grant proposals.

And there was a piece in Bob's Lounge, where I referred to the way that land recovers after a clearcut, coming back in cycles before it fully recovers. But I am not sure nature is still as 'organic ' as it once was. Take the pine beetle infestation, which is in part a function of the fact that we don't allow forests to burn, along with climate change, so once we are part of it, the environment is in recovery... speaking of which, I am surprised how well I responded to the acupuncture.

AK: Do you experience the balance between dancing and bodywork stable or unstable?

RS: It's a stable instability— I feel the creative aspect of artmaking and expression in dance has invited me into this other world, which requires a lot of improvisation and creative thinking. I am glad to return to dance but I also recognize how much commitment it takes to fulfill the work. I knew that, but suddenly I am seeing it much more clearly. I would like to stay active in a physical practice, because it keeps me strong, especially in my yoga work, and I like the idea that what I do keeps me in shape enough to take on smaller dance projects. I wouldn't want to go back to full-time dancing, but I like being in this world still. I also feel that people feel instability in the world at large, and I want to be able to settle into this feeling of unpredictability. I think we were D a n cDea C ee n tC r aeln tNr a o vl eSmebpetre/ D em nc mebc e r b2e0r0 42 0 1 43

11

continued on page 14 Dance Central November/December 2014

11

Critical Movements: An excerpt from Christine Fletcher's keynote address to the Undivided Colours Symposium organized by Co. ERASGA. and hosted

by The Dance Centre November 7-9, 2014

Undivided Colours

12

Dance Central November/December 2014

Left: Joel Klein and Karen Lee-Morlang. Back cover:: Pichet Klunchun, Didik Nini Thowok, Alvin Erasga Tolentino, William Lau, Peter Chin.

..."The last theme I’m going to touch on is boundaries. I’m going

And who knows, maybe these boundary places could be

to start again by looking at natural ecosystems. I’m doing this

wormholes into some other reality; some other way of being

because I think sometimes looking at analogs can highlight possi-

together. One characterized by curiosity rather than judge-

bilities; a new way of seeing ourselves. People who use so-called

ment; by questions of wonder rather than inquisitions about

natural resources usually prefer clarity in the way land is clas-

how dangerous the strange might be. We need to find and

sified so they can decide on what is most valuable. But the land

explore those between places. We need to celebrate them.

isn’t divided into clear categories. We make them up, and draw the lines between them on our maps. But they’re not really there.

Verse 38 of the Tao Te Ching speaks about the loss of integrity

In our minds the lines just separate things so we can make sense

and wonder as one moves from a formless to an increasingly

of the world; and evaluate and use it. The lines have no space.

ordered world: [W]hen Tao is lost, there is goodness.

But, the spaces between different sorts of ecosystems – be-

When goodness is lost, there is kindness.

tween land and fresh water; between stream and land; between

When kindness is lost, there is justice.

land and ocean are the richest, most productive and generative

When justice is lost, there is ritual.

places. These places are neither one thing nor the other. They are

[R]itual is the husk of faith and loyalty, the beginning of con-

more than both. They are areas of motion, mixing, and novelty.

fusion

And I believe that people who are thinking about and living in

We are all mysterious beings capable of many things. But so

the boundaries between the provided, allowable sex and gender

much of our lives are reduced to ritual, and one of the big-

categories – in spaceless places most people don’t know could

gest rituals of all is our sex and gender. Can we make gender

exist – are helping to create some wonderful things. For one,

a verb? Can we do gender with awareness, curiosity and

they’re eking out new categories for people who need them

compassion? Can we reduce its power and work at just being

to live more fully. They are also asking why the categories are

human?

needed and what they mean. They are wondering if we can be what we do and think and create.

Do we need to be nouns— still and defined identities?

Or can we be verbs?

I know it might sound hopelessly naïve to live in some kind of resistance to such a powerful thing as the sex-gender binary.

I don’t think the binary is going to come tumbling down anytime soon. But even though the system will try to pull us in and stop the questions, I still think there is some wonderful and important exploration to do about sex and gender and about culture and discipline, to heighten our authenticity, and as part of enhancing our ability to be different together. To look for space between formlessness and order, where curiosity lives. To think, live and ask questions outside of given categories and rules."...

Dance Central November/December 2014

13

Thinking Bodies: A conversation with

raised with the belief that the world was like a tower, set on four corners, stable—and then it

Ron Stewart

but when it isn't it becomes very unstable. That is the analogy I have been working with: A

collapsed. Now the world feels like a spinning top. When it is spinning fast it appears stable, stable instability. It allows for change.

continued from page 11

AK: Do you think dance has changed, or has the way you see it changed?

RS: Yes, I felt a big shift, when people like Josh Martin, 605 Collective, Amber Funk Barton and Shay Kuebler came on the scene, with a real force, active and self-creating. Now I see people I have never seen before, and since I have been away, I get a feeling that there is a shift in creation, and in the themes that appear in the work. I still love the physicality and the opportunity to communicate in abstract ways, but I am finding more nuance, and yes, I do watch dance differently. In the past it was difficult not to have a critical eye. Now I enjoy it more.

AK: Dancers like Amber have been describing herself as having reached a physical boundary...

RS: At times, boundaries can turn out to be just a plateau. I remember when I got to go to Toronto Dance Theatre, I thought, "How can I ever keep up with this?" but the training and the professionalism bumped up my capacity. Once I got back to Vancouver and into the swing of working, I suddenly found that I was premiering a new work once a month for a while. I didn't see it coming, but all of the people I was working with utilized different skills and different systems, and each one fed into something that became a more rounded skill set. So the next thing you know can be much bigger and come from where you didn't expect it.

AK: Is your somatic work embedded in any established form of therapeutic practice?

RS: It is something relatively new, based in the work of Joseph Kramer who started the Body Electric in the 80's and created a workshop for men to explore touch, eroticism and sexuality in a new and safe way. In doing so, he realized that the education we were given was shamebased, which led to hidden and shadowy sexual practices, and he created an opportunity for men to let go of old storiesHe recognized that patterns started to shift and a greater sense of health emerged, and he created a curriculum to present to the California Board of Health— sexological bodywork, which is great work: Somatic sex ediucation and an opportunity to change neural patterns. There are four of us facilitators at each retreat and we have decided that we will start writing, to recognize patterns more clearly, and to help people in the retreats track the changes they encounter. So in terms for the potential of increasing my knowledge or capacity to assist, that feels like an interesting way to do it. Writing in this way is a new beginning, and we have created a project to explore this.

AK: Do you have a sense of what will come next for you?

"I want to be able to

settle

into this feeling of

unpredictablity" 14

Dance Central November/December 2014

RS: I was reflecting on what it would mean if I gave all this up, and did something completely different, and it didn't send me into terror. In the last five years, I have gone through so many changes and developed trust in the change. It has taken me down paths I would never have expected and it feels right—the work, the space, the property. But there are times when I think that, for different reasons, I could walk away from it all, and it still wouldn't be the end of the world, so the opportunity for shifting and changing is open, while I am also very happy to be going in the direction I am going.

AK: Thank you!

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migrant bodies

continued from page 7

A conversation with Ginelle Chagnon

GC: Yes. When are we dancing and when are we not? What are we tending to share with the audience? What does 'to dance' mean? It will be an interesting discussion. Is it not dancing when someone is feeling sad or indecisive and is swaying in their chair? Body, motion, time, space: We have all of these

especia

to share with an eventual audience.

AK: Is there a set time and format for the final presentations? don't feel that there is a place for this in dance. Contemporary GC: Our first deadline is February 2015, when we return to

dance should be democratic, especially in respect to how

Vancouver to first produce works. We have very little time to

we create and process a work together. Calling me a facilita-

get ready. Then, in March, we move on to Vitry-sur-Seine and

tor or ‘accompagnateur’ is fine, I think. Better than to be called

give a performance there. Then, in the spring of 2015, we will

a dramaturg, which isn't it either. We have adapted the term

take the 'production' to Zagreb and finally to Bassano del Grap-

'dramaturg' from theatre, but most of the times that doesn't

pa where this journey began a year ago. This final presentation

correspond to what we do, because we have knowledge of the

will culminate in a symposium during which all dance perfor-

dance and can advise on more than story and time line. If you

mances, writings and videos will be assembled and presented.

ever come up with a term, Andreas, please let me know!

Currently, the artists are still focused on absorbing the subject matter, but I am starting to feel the pressure on us, to assemble

AK: I was speaking with Sammy Chien about the project, and

our thoughts, and to give a shape to what we hold within.

he said that he had no idea of what was coming, and that his main goal for the time being was to remain an artist in a

AK: Was it an intentional choice to make the turnaround time

project rather than become a designer in a production. In a

between research and creation so short?

collaborative process, the modalities of production have their own dynamics, and they tend to collapse things; many people

GC: When you create a project that somebody else is going

understand that this can happen and are mindful, but it is worth

to realize, it is very difficult to plan things in a way that will

asking to what extent this is a dance projects, driven by danc-

correspond to everyone’s needs, rhythm and expectations. All

ers, presenting a dance. And if that is the case: what is the role

you can do is to create a calendar of events hoping that it will

of these artists in a physical project?

permit things to happen. However, we mustn't forget that the artists and the organizers are responsible for final content. In

GC: If you are talking about the videographers, it is up to them

the end it is a collective project, so whatever organizers and

to determine what their project is. Also if a choreographer

artists have to discuss to make final decision on the eventual

wants to include them into their team of collaborators for their

performance platform, discussions need to happen now as the

own work that is up to them to decide. But initially, the video

project is really starting to shape itself.

artists and the writers have independent projects.

AK: This puts you in a unique position, and since you aren't a

AK: Another aspect of this process and the question of migra-

mentor, are you a witness, a facilitator, a muse?

tion must be the political and military dimension. This week alone, 700 people, families, children, were 'rescued' off the

GC: I am definitely not a muse !! and I don't really like the word

island of Lampedusa. Pope Francis asked the governors of the

mentor in dance. I understand if someone wants guidance, or

'World Bank' a few days ago if they were content to let the

advice, or wish to consult a more mature confrere, but here

Mediterrannean become a graveyard. 100,000 people have

and now, the word carries a connotation of hierarchy, direc-

tried to cross into Europe 'illegally'—meaning, they tried to

tion, or a guru-quality that implies disciples, or followers. I

leave the violent, cruel, corrupt situation in which they live and Dance Central September 2004

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"Contemporary dance should be democratic,

ally in how we create and how we process a work togehter!"

have to raise their children. Fifteen years ago, 8000 men and

I believe the project can be a winning combination because

boys filed one afternoon, under the eyes of knowing, U.N. sol-

it asks the artists to shift between being affected to affecting

diers, into busses, to be killed, in a forced—'migration'. Human

someone else before being able to drown since you are not

history is the story of migration, and along with it, of brutality,

alone. Also, a project like this is about the people, about the six

of war, and of genocide. How do we, how do the artists, begin

of us and the writers and videographers, but more importantly,

to examine and respond to these aspects of the project ?

it's about the people that we engage with along the way. Also in each city we have short encounters. For example, we went to

GC: We can't. The best way we have found to protect our-

a salmon hatchery, and we asked our driver, a young man who

selves from being overwhelmed by it is to have discussions

had never seen this place, to come along, and participate in the

about what we feel, what we retain from those moments,

experience. This small encounter may change something in his

and what captures our attention. It's an in-depth journey and

way of thinking and in his relationship to where he lives. And

some days, you can sink. This is the topic and you are there

then our conversation will take us to different places. It is that

to respond to it, you have to take it in small doses, because

human contact and the invitation to think with other colleagues

when you don't, you can't speak for the rest of the day. I

about migration that is stimulating for me.

remember this happened in Zagreb. We all went to a place where four young men from different countries, who were

AK: Thank you!

being held while seeking asylum, had agreed to meet with us. We were not allowed to take pictures and we had to go through a whole range of procedures to get there. We knew that they would only tell is a very small part of their story—we could imagine the rest of the human drama— and when we left, everyone was very quiet. How do you go into the studio to dance after that? We had a discussion later, and we did absorb the material, but the danger is that you can't dive in and lose yourself in one story without disappearing.

AK: How do the artists articulate this?

GC: We say "I'm voiceless" and people respect that. We are all in the same boat—the boat of migration—and when the artists go into this subject matter, they try not to lose themselves, because there are others in the same situation, and there is an outcome, and a support system, so you can't allow yourself to drown. At the same time, whatever you access can't be as deep as it would be in purely personal process. In that sense, Dance Central September 2004

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November/December 2014

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