Dance Central January / February 2014

January/February 2014

Dance Central A Dance Centre Publication

Content

Dance In Vancouver Jeanne Holmes talks about Curating Dance Page 1

A Note from the Executive Director Mirna Zagar Page 4

Designing Dance Stage Management: A conversation with Kimberly Plough Page 8

Welcome to the January/February 2014 issue of Dance Central.

Welcome to the January/February issue of Dance Central. We feature a conversation with Jeanne Holmes, artistic producer of the Canada Dance Festival and curator of the 2013 Dance In Vancouver Biennal, which took place in November and was a great success with audiences.

The 'Designing Dance' series continues with stage manager and lighting designer Kimberly Plough, whose work ranges from Ballet BC to festival stage management, lighting design for music/new media produc-

Curating Dance

A conversation with Jeanne Holmes

Jeanne Holmes was the curator for the 2013 Dance In Vancouver Biennal and has been Artistic Producer of the Canada Dance Festival since 2011, following her work as Producing Director of Dancemakers and the Centre for Creation in Toronto. Prior to that she was the dance programmer at Harbourfront Centre where she curated the dance component of the World Stage performance series and was the Artistic Director of World Moves, Harbourfront Centre’s international dance season.

Jeanne also serves on the CanDance Network Board, the ArtsBuild Ontario Community Advisory Committee and is Chair of the Board of Dusk Dances, Toronto.

tions and even a five year stint with Cirque du Soleil.

For the coming issues of Dance Central, we are also looking forward to an exchange with Dance International Magazine, now under the editorship of former Dance Central editor and writer Kaija Pepper.

We would also like to remind members that they are entitled to a special subscription rate for Dance International. To find out more, please visit: http://danceinternational.org/subscribe.html As always, we thank all the artists who have agreed to contribute and we welcome new writing and project ideas at any time, in order to continue to make Dance Central a more vital link to the community. Please send material by mail to members@thedancecentre.ca. or call us at 604.606.6416. We look forward to the conversation!

Andreas Kahre, Editor

AK: There was a time when contemporary dance in Vancouver was described as beg informed by its relationship to place and especially the Coastal landscape. Watching the program of this year's DIV Biennal it is striking that the majority of works seem much more engaged with questions of the performing body, of levels of abstraction and relationship between narrative and presence in the context of formal movement than with place.

I found myself beginning to wonder if Surrealism is making a comeback...

JH: I think that shift can be observed in general in contemporary dance, but it was certainly my impression when I started investigating the individuals who are creating contemporary work in Vancouver now. It is easy to be misunderstood when talking about it; In an interview with the Vancouver Sun, the interviewer seemed to think that by pointing out how remarkable the change in Vancouver dance has been, I was somehow implying that Vancouver was an artistic backwater fifteen years ago.

What I had actually alluded to was a kind of homogeneity that I remember around the creation process, where everyone took

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Dance Central Januar y/Februar y 2014

class together and generated movement in the same way,

JH: I can understand their situation. Visual art makers are fac-

using improvisation and contact improvisation, which with

ing the same issues. Media art makers have been more suc-

shared dancers often resulted in a kind of sameness in the

cessful in terms of those realities, and perhaps difficulty will be

work. Now what I see are lots of individual voices that are

the mother of invention for dance artists. There is a symbiotic,

informed by lots of different things, by cultural diversity, by

codependent relationship between artists and presenters. I

regional information, and by international trends—anything

am privileged in that I have had a number of opportunities to

from Japanese anime to Hitchcock movies and clown work

talk with artists about that. One thing that they often forget is

to Japanese shadow puppets. Some of that has to do with

that while the power dynamic seems to be skewed toward

the fact that these artists are here making work in Vancou-

the presenter, in fact that's not the case. The presenter’s role is

ver and some doesn’t, but there are lots of creators in this

really dependent on the success of the artist and on their suc-

city who make very different kinds of work. Place does play

cess in the community. In many ways, they are codependent,

a role—but only if and when they choose it.

because presenters want artists to succeed, to feel supported and to be presented with integrity. Of course they also want

AK: Of course the city itself has been completely trans-

audiences to buy tickets and come back— there is the busi-

formed during that time. If you had stood where we are

ness part and there is the art part.

now fifteen years ago, you would have been able to see the ocean and the mountains, where now there are, at best,

AK: Part of the problem is that regional and national presenters

what the real estate agents and city planners cheerfully call

support can be critical even when it comes to getting funding

'glimpses'. How can we be informed by a landscape we no

to present—and even to develop—work locally.

longer see?

JH: Artists who want to present work in their home city are JH: That's true. I also think that communities naturally

facing huge challenges, and Vancouver is perhaps overly

evolve. Cities have their heydays— Toronto in the 80s

challenged. It’s not a huge city, and the audience is spread out

Montreal in the 90s, and Vancouver's time is now. There

over several presenters, and it’s hard to get people go inside.

is a natural progression when and where dance is being

I think generally that Dance in Canada may be a little over

made. From a national perspective, which is the lens that

organized. There are presenter networks that are regional,

I work through most of the time in my role as producer of

national, and international; there are artists associations that

the Canada Dance Festival, the CDF, it is interesting that

are regional and national, and there are the relationships we

many of the Canadian dance artists who are touring, and

are trying to build between them. It can be hard to break into

who are known nationally and internationally are based in

that dialogue. Hard to connect. It’s a weird structure that we

Vancouver. It used to be that choreographers from Mon-

are trying to create which is also quite fragile. It’s based on

treal, and before that Toronto were known as the Canadian

engagement in communities and for that artists and present-

national dance representatives, and that may shift again,

ers need each other.

but it is exciting to be in this community now, because success breeds energy and excitement and opportunity and

AK: How has the situation affected the dance community as

willingness to take risks.

you see it?

AK: It seems that while many Vancouver-based dance

JH: What I feel is a disappointing change – specifically around

artists seem eager to take risks, they find themselves in an

presenting – in that there is little opportunity for risk and little

up-hill battle when it comes to funding their practice, and

room for failure right now. It is very reliant on numbers, on

especially to finding presenting and touring opportunities.

delivering at the box office and making revenue. It’s reliant

What they tell us is that they are frustrated by the degree to

on bums in seats in terms of funding and reporting. And it’s

which their ability to develop and present new work is be-

reliant on the media in how your success is measured— if you

ing decided by the presenters, and some are insisting that

don't have a review, for example. The idea of the print review

artists need to find a way to create presenting opportuni-

is important in establishing that moment in time. All of that is

ties outside of the established networks. Some have begun

very tenuous right now, and so presenters seem to be forced

to lobby funders to re--distribute presentation money to

continued on page 5

alternative networks and to artists directly.

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Dance Central The Dance Centre Scotiabank Dance Centre Level 6, 677 Davie Street Vancouver BC V6B 2G6 T 604.606.6400 F 604.606.6401 info@thedancecentre.ca www.thedancecentre.ca Dance Central is published every two months by The Dance Centre for its members and for the dance community. Opinions expressed are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent Dance Central or The Dance Centre. The editor reserves the right to edit for clarity or length, or to meet house requirements.

From the Executive Director

To all of our Members, Partners and Supporters here is

Editor Andreas Kahre Copy Editor Hilary Maxwell

wishing you a HAPPY NEW YEAR! At The Dance Centre,

Contributors to this issue: Jeanne Holmes, Kimberly Plough, Mirna Zagar

Dance In Vancouver. Likewise, 2014 begins on a high

Dance Centre Board Members Chair Ingrid M. Tsui Past Chair Andrea Wink Vice Chair Gavin Ryan Secretary Simone Orlando Treasurer Roman Goldmann Directors Barbara Bourget Susan Elliott Margaret Grenier Beau Howes Anndraya T. Luui Josh Martin Jordan Thomson Dance Foundation Board Members Chair Michael Welters Secretary Anndraya T. Luui Treasurer Jennifer Chung Directors Santa Aloi, Linda Blankstein, Grant Strate Dance Centre Staff: Executive Director Mirna Zagar Programming Coordinator Raquel Alvaro Marketing Manager Heather Bray Services Administrator Anne Daroussin Development Director Sheri Urquhart Technical Directors Justin Aucoin and Mark Eugster Accountant Lil Forcade Member Services Coordinator Hilary Maxwell

The Dance Centre is BC's primary resource centre for the dance profession and the public. The activities of The Dance Centre are made possible by numerous individuals. Many thanks to our members, volunteers, community peers, board of directors and the public for your ongoing commitment to dance in BC. Your suggestions and feedback are always welcome.

The operations of The Dance Centre are supported by the Canada Council for the Arts, the Province of British Columbia through the BC Arts Council, and the City of Vancouver through the Office of Cultural Affairs.

2013 passed like a whirlwind, the highlight of which was note as we once again partner with the PuSh International Performing Arts Festival, this year presenting Dance Centre Artist-in-Residence 605 Collective in their newly-imagined version of Inheritor Album, as part of the Global Dance Connection series. To audiences that have seen the original Inheritor Album, this presentation will offer a new perspective in how artists review their own work, reshaping and rearticulating their vision and intent. In a way it’s interesting to see a comment of a comment, as Inheritor Album is about exploration across generations and about inheritance. What has been left behind this time around? What has resulted since the last time we watched? And more importantly, what has changed and why and what is the outcome?

Those who saw it before will now have the opportunity to enjoy the dancing of a new cast and experience the impact of these performers, as much as looking for the inheritance, and the legacy of the dancers who originally danced in this work when it premiered in 2012. It’s not often we see works remounted/ revisited/ reworked – in dance in particular. Hence, this presentation is quite a special experience in many ways for all involved and I am confident it will be so for you the audience!

Residencies are key to the work we do at The Dance Centre. No two residencies are alike as each is customtailored in conjunction with the artist to ensure the best possible support and the best possible outcome and experience. One that is of mutual benefit and leaves a legacy to the ones that follow. Embarking on a new international collaboration MIGRANT BODIES is testa-

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continued from page 3

Curating Dance A conversation with Jeanne Holmes

ment to the quality of experiences we can offer artists

to make decisions that are very safe, and that is not always the

here at The Dance Centre, but also the work behind

best way to support developing a contemporary voice.

making these experiences meaningful to the development of the artist’s own vision as well as investments

AK: In BC, gaming funding disappeared long enough to seriously

made into the development of the art form itself. MI-

damage the arts infrastructure, and resulted in a shift toward

GRANT BODIES is a two-year project co-funded by the

funding 'special' events. The Olympics distorted the balance of

European Union and consists of a series of research/

arts funding even more, and what we are left with is a kind of

creation based residencies to take place in Vancouver,

'festival culture'.

Montreal, France, Italy and Croatia. Vancouver’s representative in this project is choreographer Su-Feh Lee. There will be plenty of opportunity for Vancouver’s artists who have shown great interest in this project to be involved in the Vancouver component through workshops, cross-disciplinary dialogues, collaborative laboratories, and round-table discussions. Artistic as well as community based encounters are integral to the

JH: Yes, I know. Ottawa and Montreal are the kings of festivals...

AK: Not surprisingly, festival funding is attractive to politicians, because it doesn't create perceived 'entitlements'—it is easier to make a festival disappear than to savage an industry, and to sell a commodity rather than support a practice. The role of presenters becomes even more important when their support is critical to triggering operating funding for artists, and the risk

project itself as it explores the context of migration as it

that artists take is not just that they may occasionally create a

is embodied through the practice of the art of dance.

flop but they may lose support for their practice altogether.

We are also thrilled to re-launch one of our community’s

JH: What is unique about Vancouver is an infrastructure that

favourites: 12 Minutes Max. Following a short hiatus

supports a formal artist/audience engagement around the

and in-depth community consultations we are going

work in progress. In Toronto and Montreal there is an infor-

back to its roots. So, look out for more information as

mal structure, where you invite friends and colleagues to get

we roll out the new edition! A huge thank you to Claire

feedback. But in Vancouver it seems that there is a commitment

French who has been key to championing this project.

A huge thank you also to Donna Spencer at the Firehall Arts Centre who has for many years partnered with us and helped the project develop. We look forward to (re) building the potential of a new partnership in this new format as we move forward.

to that part of the artistic development of a work. A supported and understood framework for showing work in progress to an audience in a formal environment, sometimes alongside finished works. That raises the stakes for artists and audiences and I think changes the work in the transition from the studio to the theatre. During the festival, a couple of 'works in progress' which I had seen in a studio environment and invited to DIV changed completely once they were 'on stage', and in front of an audience. Some transformed more successfully than others.

Sincerely,

Losing the intimacy of the studio and placing work on a platform

Mirna Zagar

with an audience brings new rules and new parameters around how the work is viewed. That opportunity reveals the qualities of new creations – both good and bad – and I hope will ultimately help the artist refine and develop their ideas.

Dance Central Januar y/Februar y 2014

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Curating Dance A conversation with Jeanne Holmes

AK: Along with 'biennal culture', the term 'curation' has migrated from visual art to the performing arts, and has changed in the translation. The performing arts are still in the process of developing a critical language, and few dance presenters will introduce a work quoting Deleuze and Benjamin, but most performing arts festivals now feature curators. What does curation mean to you, and how does it relate to programming and presenting?

JH: I am fascinated by the language that we use around dance.

So much of the challenge of presenting dance to an audience— whether you are curating or selecting or presenting it—is like that scene in the Wizard of Oz: "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!”. To the audience, the process by which work is chosen may seem hidden and mostly anonymous, unlike a gallery where there’s an expectation for a curator to state a curatorial vision and present the work in a specific frame. In a gallery environment, I often find myself conscious of the choices

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the curator makes. For example, I saw a Van Gogh exhibit at

chael is a good friend and we often argue about shows, I think

the National Gallery, and as I viewed the work I became very

because he sees work from the point of view of a dance maker

aware of how the chronological order of the paintings showed

and I see it more from an audience perspective. Maybe it’s an

evidence of the progression of Van Gogh’s mental illness. I

inside outside thing.

became aware of the purposeful order in which I was being presented with the work by the curator. In a performing arts

I think performing arts curators (or presenters or program-

context, I am not sure that audiences recognize that brokered

mers) are maybe a bit lazy. We don't have to write critically

relationship between them and the work and the artist, and

about the work we present, we don't have to present a curato-

we don’t always highlight it.

rial vision, and a good deal of our responsibility in terms of writing relates to marketing rather than to creating a context

My mother, who is in her eighties, doesn't have any concept

for the work for our audience. As a result there is sometimes a

really of what I do: I used to curate a dance series at Harbour-

lack of critical dialogue and ability to discuss how and why we

front Centre in Toronto, and when she asked me what I did my

choose to present specific shows. This is becoming increas-

answer was: "Mostly I get paid to have good taste." My job is

ingly important as audiences seem to be shrinking and we

to have the information and context to be able to say: "This is

need to offer more information in order to engage and grow

something I think other people might be interested in; some-

new dance audiences. Context is everything now.

thing that plays an important role in the creative arc of a city; a dance by an artist whose work I think will make a difference in

AK: Speaking of the challenges of curation: Vancouver's transi-

ten years." My work is about knowing, watching and under-

tion from colonial bastion to global trading post has triggered

standing, but ultimately it is about having good taste and pro-

both an implosion and an explosion of cultural traditions,

Cities have their heydays — Toronto in the 80s, Montreal in the 90s, and Vancouver's time is now gramming something that people are going to like or at least

where contemporary performance now ranges from post-mod-

be interested in and want to buy a ticket for. I programmed

ern ballet to First Nations performance art, from contemporary

nine seasons of dance at Harbourfront Centre, with maybe

Bharatanatyam to Hiphop. How do you present this diversity in

eight or nine companies a year, and only once did I have

three days?

an experience where I was sitting in the theatre thinking "I don't care if anybody else likes this; I think it's fantastic, I

JH: You can't really. Of course there is always going to be politics

love it and I’m so glad I programmed this because I love it

involved in this kind of national or local platform with questions

so much..." That was one in about eighty works. That's not

about who is chosen and why, and who is not. And not just

to say that I didn’t love other performances or shows, but in

relating to the issue of diversity. DIV offered some very specific

this one case I just wasn’t worried about making budget or

guidelines when I asked about the parameters for the event:

reviews or anything like that because the work meant that

Work that is ready to tour, artists that have an infrastructure that

much to me.

can support creation and dissemination of work, with the pool for the most part made up of artists who had submitted applica-

I also think that part of my approach to choosing work has

tions to the program. Beyond that I was given the opportunity to

to do with the fact that I wasn’t a dancer; I studied theatre

create a point of view. There are some really interesting artists

and I have a distance from the form that perhaps allows

making work in this city, culturally diverse contemporary cre-

me to see it in a different way. I worked for a long time with

ators informed by their personal histories. Some were included

Michael Trent who was the DIV curator two years ago. Mi-

in mainstage shows as well as showcases, some weren’t.

D a n c e C e n t r a l S e p t e m bcontinued e r 2 0 0 4on page 3 13 Dance Central Januar y/Februar y 2014

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"There is something about a hand

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Designing Dance: A conversation with Kimberly Plough

the way may move across space..."

AK: Stage managers have, over the years, become more com-

AK: Is there a difference in how you shape and notate a show

monplace and arguably more important in dance; especially

in dance compared to other forms?

with the addition of complex lighting and media scores in addition to sound and music. You trained in theatre but you

KP: In dance, usually the rehearsal director, choreographer

have been working with both contemporary dance and ballet

or the dancers are responsible for remembering the move-

companies for many years now, but also as stage manager for

ments, which are recorded on video, so there is no need for

Cirque du Soleil. Let's begin with the circus. Was your role dif-

blocking notation. I go through the video and block out the

ferent from what it would be working in dance or theatre?

movement into descriptive lines and time lines, I used to do it in pictures, but now I only do that for festivals when I don't

KP: Yes. I was backstage, managing rotations and working with

have the time to prepare the notes. I also have a better visual

the artists directly rather than calling the show. On bigger shows

memory, and when it comes to the cue point, I remember

I find that the lighting and sound operators often call their own

what comes before and after more easily, and anticipate

cues, and the stage manager just brings them together if they

cues more easily. Theatre is text–based, so all notes go into

need to be coordinated. I sat in at the booth at Cirque's "O" and

the prompt book and blocking is notated within the script,

noticed that the stage manager there mainly called lift platform

so the foundation is already there, whereas in dance there

cues, and had no involvement in calling the lights, for example.

may be an outline but the words and descriptions need to be fleshed out.

AK: You have worked in ballet, contemporary dance, theatre, and the circus—do you have a preference?

AK: Is your working method different if you accompany a show through its development, compared to festival setting.

KP: I find that theatre is too finicky, with all the props, costumes, text, and blocking elements. I prefer to work with dance, unless

KP: It creates a different level of commitment towards the

it is theatre in a fast paced festival setting, where you're handed

work. When I work with the choreographer throughout the

a script and where shows come and go quickly. I prefer that to

choreographic process I will have learned the show and

the whole six week process that is typical in theatre. The Cirque

know where the movement comes from, which gives it a

was an entirely different beast; in the 3 years I was with them,

different quality, so if a dancer takes a little longer I will know

I worked the same show around 500 times. Stamina for that

why they do it and go with the flow, whereas in a festival

comes from being playful with the people you work with; it's no

situation I will be wondering if it is a mistake, or if I have

longer about the show.

missed the cue point. It is more relaxed, or 'poetic' as I call it, if I know the show. In a festival setting, I will learn the show

AK Having worked mostly in dance in the past years, is calling

and the cues in a 1-2 hour cueing session, and then call it that

theatre something you just know, like riding a bicycle?

night, and that works just fine, but it's just crossing off days and not immersing oneself in the work.

KP: No, I find that after working with dance for so long, I now call visually, and when I go back to theatre, I am not on book

AK: You are a lighting designer as well as a stage manager.

anymore; I read the cue line and then look up to wait for a

Do you have to manage internal dialogues between the two,

movement, a facial change, or the 'right moment', so that when

or do they play nicely with one another?

the cue runs, it synchronizes better.

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Designing Dance: A conversation with Kimberly Plough

KP: I often move cue points minutely, based on how they

KP: As long as the calling is based on visual cues, the prin-

look and make sense to me, which is why the work with

ciple, for me, remains the same: You can throw lights, sound,

Ballet BC can be quite difficult, because I am backstage

video, follow-spot, fly, conductor and any other sort of cue at

and can't see well what the lights are meant to do. Usually,

me and I'll give the 'go'. But when there is video and/or sound

I gauge the lighting cues and adjust them, or ask the de-

running independently it can become quite difficult to get it all

signer to change the timing if they don't quite fit, because—

to work, as there is a bit of give and take to know which cues

depending on the music—the dance tends to compress in

need to be synchronized and which can be brought in organi-

performance.

cally by different operators. It also depends on the size of the group I have to manage and on what stage I am brought into

AK: How would you compare calling ballet compared to

the process.

contemporary dance?

AK: Text-based shows tend to condense over time, in a proKP: Ballet is usually set very closely to classical music, there

cess shaped by the stage manager. Is it similiar in dance, in

is a lot more specific vocabulary, and often there are a lot

your experience, even though the runs are shorter?

more people on stage. Three seconds of ballet is usually full of movement, whereas three seconds of modern dance

KP: You still shape the performance with each show; for ex-

might just be someone standing still. Both are engaging, but

ample, I was calling Wen Wei's piece at Dance In Vancouver,

ballet has the music that takes the edge off of calling and sets

and was adjusting the calls even with only three shows. This

the transitions up clearly, and contemporary work leaves me

is especially true when a work includes improvised sections

always watching the performers intently for clues to when

which leaves a lot of liberty.

the sections will progress and most of the cue points come.

AK: Unlike the audience, you are one of the few people who AK: Work by companies like plastic orchid factory, which

actually know how the choreographer meant the work to

you just called for Dance In Vancouver, looks like ballet at

look, even when it doesn't...

times, but in many ways is contemporary dance. Would you approach it like a contemporary or a ballet show?

KP: The circus was wonderful for that; in certain sections the performers were out there just doing playful vignettes and

KP: Having worked with them as a lighting designer, I under-

the audience would never know that it was different from the

stand how their work moves in ideas, including section titles,

show before. The artistic co-ordinator I worked with would

and I will try to break it down accordingly when calling it. I

either laugh and encourage, or frown and discourage them,

see their company as modern and edgy, morphing music the

but it was always changing to keep monotony at bay. In a

same way they morph ballet. Classical ballet would be more

dance show, when the choreography or timing doesn't go as

a matter of 'lights up' at the beginning of a section and 'lights

planned, there is usually a moment of tension in the booth

down' at the end of it. plastic orchid factory will have lights

while we all try to get back on track. It always makes it lively

and sound and video coming in to push a change instead of

post-show when everyone tells their story about what they

letting it occur naturally, in synch with the score.

did in the moment.

AK: When you wander back and forth between ballet,

AK: Are you comfortable calling off a score?

contemporary work, and performances driven by media or video, do you approach each one as a new and different

KP: I can do it, but I don't like it as much. Sometimes I re-learn

entity, or is there a 'basic formula'?

the piece to call it visually.

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Dance Central Januar y/Februar y 2014

AK: Is there a type of dance you prefer to work with?

tell me when the calling was good, and I have been getting more compliments lately, which I think relates to being more

KP: Pretty much all of it, as long as it is strong work and the

personable. If I do my job well, my work disappears into a

intentions are good. When the dancers aren't invested in it

seamless show, the choreographers can concentrate on the

is hard to concentrate. I especially like older dancers, like

dance, the lighting, sound and video designers on their cues

Andrea Naan, or companies like Cloud Gate Dance, who

etc. If I don't do it well, by not being prepared, it is a waste of

mesmerize me by the way they move. They can tell you a lot

everyone's time. I do like to see what other SMs do and when

of information with just a movement of a hand, but I also like

the touring groups come through I check to see how they

the energy of the younger artists.

work. Alberta Ballet's SM, for example, calls straight off of a stopwatch which I would find scary, because you can't see

"I think of stage management as helping to create" AK: In theatre, at least, stage managers come in types—or even stereotypes: The motherly type, the drill sergeant— KP:— that was me when I was younger— AK: —and the technocrat, who seems concerned only with their book and keeping things running on time. Is it similiar in dance, where there appear to be relatively few dedicated stage managers?

KP: It is similar, and one's managing style changes over time.

When I was younger, I tended to be more aggressive and controlling, but over the past four years I have become more nurturing and a 'people person' in order to create a better experience with the group. I find that people just want to be informed, not told or directed, and that brings out their best work and creates the best work environment. Dancers are very organized and in control of themselves; they'll tell you if they need something, and otherwise they'll leave you in peace. For example, with Ballet BC, I now get the information across in a more soft-spoken style, which is much nicer for them and for me.

AK: Do you get feedback on your work?

KP: With some choreographers, if I don't get any notes, I have done a good job. Most choreographers and designers will

it and even though the dance may be synchronized with the music, there is something about the way a hand may move across space that requires more room...

AK: You are in an privileged position as an observer and as a collaborator working with many choreographers. Given how many dancers you have had the opportunity to observe, do you experience a difference between generations?

KP: Yes, when working in contemporary dance I think a lot of the younger dancers tend to be looking for their own voice and style, whereas in ballet, where I have been spending a lot of my time recently, there is a set vocabulary, and less apparent searching. What strikes me with the older generation of dancers is that they communicate more by containing their energy and directing it rather than sending massive amounts of youthful energy blasting out.

AK: What made you decide to stage manage in the first place? What do you like about it?

KP: Fundamentally, I stage manage because I love lighting, and stage managing in dance is firstly a matter of calling lights. I find designing lighting these days is stressful, because there is so little time to work with the crews hanging and focussing and getting your idea across, so you end up throwing away fifty percent of it, which is just heartbreaking, so instead of getting frustrated and angry, I get to work with other designers in creating the show. I like dance because it is the most integrated form between lighting, movement and sound, and the most beautiful completion of lighting. I also think that I genuinely like helping people, being in the middle of the action, running it, and organizing it.

AK: As a lighting designer, you are working in the midst of an important transition—from incandescents to LED lights.

Dance Central Januar y/Februar y 2014

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"I find that people just want to be informed, not told or directed, and that brings out their best work."

Dance Central Januar y/Februar y 2014

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Not long ago, I had a conversation with Itai Erdal for Dance

KP: I would be interested in working with a group where I

Central, where he described his reservations about aspects

could have more artistic input. I am able to see more and

of LEDs, such as fades. Do you like working with them?

more of the refining details during rehearsal, and I find it fascinating. I don't share my observations unless I'm asked,

KP: Not much, although some are gorgeous. The clicking

because it isn't my place, but I like noticing strengths and

fades are annoying, but at least the lights are getting much

weaknesses in the art form and I would like go to a place

better. We just have to give feedback to help the manufac-

that has plenty of resources, and help create there.

turers create a better product.

AK: There was a concerted effort in the 1990s to make the AK: Designers tend to be the last ones who get to make deci-

theatre community acknowledge that SMs weren't 'just'

sions about the technology that is used. Sound designers

technicians, but that they needed to be recognized as artists.

were forced to use Minidisks throughout the 1990s despite the fact that early MP3 compression sounded awful. LED

KP: Choreographers I have worked with realize this as well,

lights are appearing everywhere because they are cheap,

at least when it comes to the calling of the show. They invest

they last, they don't need dimmers. But if neither the design-

their resources, time and energy into creating the dance and

ers nor the choreographers really want them, who does?

then, once in the theatre, leave the technical side of it in the hands of one person - in my opinion that person would be

KP: The theatres drive it, because of the easy setup and the

best to be someone who is both creative and technical.

low cost. Most lighting changes filter down from corporate events, and the people who work ask for them. And people

AK: The 'auxilliary' positions—designers, stage managers,

like trying new things. "I have seen that before, but why don't

technicians—are not always given much room to participate

we try it? Look, no scrollers!"

in the process of creating work. Do you find that there is a place for your observations to be valued, to be a collabora-

AK: What kind of lighting designer would you describe your-

tor rather than a facilitator?

self as?

KP: Not always. You can discuss what you see with others KP: I have my own style; chiaroscuro–based, with strong

who know the show, but often there is nowhere else to take

impact, but also lighting the faces when needed. Most of

it. You soon learn whether you are going to be invited into

my recent lighting has been with groups who use theatrical

the creative process, and what your role there will be.

expressions in their dance, so cutting out distorting shadows and exploring ways to light the face have become important.

AK: You have worked alongside a particular generation of

I'm also starting to get excited about certain colour combina-

dance artists in Vancouver. How do you experience the shift

tions, especially when lighting music performances.

that seems to be taking place at the moment?

AK: Video used to be a stage manager's nightmare. Has it

KP: It is interesting; there really is a changeover right now.

become less onerous to work with?

Some of it is nice to observe; many of the dancers I worked with have matured and have become less anxious, but it is

KP: People now try to work with a single source and wide

also sad, because they aren't dancing as much any more. At

angle lenses, but it still takes as long to set up. It is a lovely

the same time, it is a chance to develop new relationships. I

design element: The power of the image, the way it lights

think dance is changing in interesting ways.

up the floor and gives the dancers a world to dance in. The French Canadians in particular are experts at using video

AK: Thank you!

seamlessly as a design element.

AK: If you could expand your role, what would you do?

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Curating Dance

A conversation with Jeanne Holmes

continued from page 7

One of the things people in my position are often asked is

it can feel like the choices presenters make are random and

how we make choices, and it is not always as simple as this

based only on what they want but I feel like part of that

is what I like and this is what I don't like — in fact it’s rarely

choice is about success. The presenter wants the artist to

that simple. For me it’s more a question of: This is work that

succeed – artistically as much as financially, though often

speaks to me, that will work well in my community and for

the desire for artistic success isn’t always as clear. No one

my audience; and then: 'Can I afford it, does it fit in my the-

wants a show to fail in any way.

atre, is it available when I have the dates?' Those things, the logistical and business aspects are part of it, along with the

AK: Commissioning is a powerful tool, because of the lever-

artistic. They all play a part around the choice-making. But

age it creates to trigger funding to develop new work. It isn't

then, I also feel that the work I invite – to a festival like DIV

just a case of "let's present this work because it's interest-

or for a national platform – I have to feel like it connects to

ing", but, given the current distribution of resources, these

me, or speaks to me in a particular way. I have to respect it. I

relationships have a real impact on artistic decisions.

have to understand it. I have to appreciate it. Those things are about my personal experience, and when I take it to my audi-

JH: This is where the role of the networks can be important

ence I also want it to have a voice, a clear point of view, and

and influential. Presenters come together to talk and discuss

to tell me something new, to hold a mirror up to my expecta-

projects, to choose who they want to support. To build

tions or to personal truths. There’s a lot you have to take into

those partnerships. Like any relationship, it’s about shared

consideration.

interests, shared aesthetics and mutual curiosity. Sometimes, it’s also about finding and supporting a new voice. Of

The other thing I think is really important, and doesn’t always

course, many of the relationships among presenters focus

get talked about is the artist presenter relationship. I like to

on the business part of things. It’s often what we most have

work with people I enjoy, people who challenge me, people

in common and that’s what is focused on when we all get

I can talk to – it’s not only about the work. And I think lots

together. I sometimes joke that my CDF title is 'artistic pro-

of presenters are like that, too. The way work is curated is a

ducer', but too much time is spent on the producer aspect

lot like building a relationship, or a partnership. You spend

and too little on the artistic side. For Dance In Vancouver,

time together, negotiating, debating, talking sometimes about

which is an event for presenters, I wanted to make sure that

difficult or challenging things like money and art. Having a

the artist's voice was heard, and that the off-stage pre-

relationship—maybe not a friendship necessarily but a per-

sentations, the studio showings and panels would involve

sonal connection—really goes a long way. There has to be re-

artists talking about their work and how they create. I feel

ciprocal interest and respect. There’s an artist in Toronto I’ve

very privileged to be the person in between the artist and

worked with for many years. Our relationship started with us

the audience. I have access to amazing opportunities to see

having a beer after a show and just talking. I didn’t know her,

work grow and change as it’s created and to talk to chore-

she didn’t know me. Five years later we finally got to present

ographers and dancers about the process as it’s happening.

her work. Five years! It took that long to build the project and

And also to provide opportunities for the artists to develop,

the environment in which to present it the right way. I think

revise and push their work further.

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"I think there is a real opportunity for Vancouver artists to break whatever mold they might be working in."

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That knowledge informs what I see and how I see it. I probably see more than 100 shows a year and I still sometimes find that I sit in the theatre and I don't understand what the artist is trying tell me— and if that's how I feel with all the information I have, then what's my audience experience and what can I do to help them? Programs should be a tool, but there are times when the program contains all kinds of information about dancers and designers' training, background, and previous work but it gives you nothing about the work itself. Our opportunity as presenters is that the information we absorb through seeing the work in studio, in another theatre, with different audiences, and in conversation with the artist: That informs us when we go back into our communities and talk about the work. We are developing a curatorial voice, a shared, consistent vocabulary in how we talk about contemporary forms to our audiences. We want to find the right tone—which doesn’t underestimate or overestimate the audience abilities and understandings.

AK: DIV is very much a festival of 'contemporary' Dance in Vancouver. Ten years ago, there might have been more theatre-based and less ballet-based work. Contemporary work in Vancouver appears to have moved toward a certain formality that is more comfortable in the black box, and there is no Bharatanatyam, no Flamenco. Has the shrinking economy of dance funding also meant that the term contemporary is being applied more conservatively?

JH: I have trouble with the term 'contemporary'— both the small c and the large C kind. When I took over the Canada Dance Festival, my board was in the process of reworking the mandate and they were arguing about whether to include the word contemporary. To me any work that is created now and is of our time is contemporary, whether it is Bharatanatyam or an abstract work initiated by a balletic intention, or for that matter something informed by a Hitchcock movie— that is all part of what artists are influenced by. I was having a conversation with Eduardo, DIV's driver, who asked me about work

by immigrants. I think there is something fascinating about the way that it often takes two generations for children of immigrant or new-Canadian families—especially those from non-Western or European backgrounds—to choose a life in the 'contemporary' arts, possibly because their families want them to succeed in a socioeconomic sense and it’s hard to do that as an artist. They want their kids to train in the traditional artistic forms, to remember home, not necessarily to explore new traditions. That takes time.

"I feel very privileged to be the person in between the artist and the audience."

AK: There is at least one, if not several generations of artists in Vancouver, who have become autonomous in their relationship to their ethnocultural traditions, aren't there?

JH: Yes. Su-Feh is a great example. She is an artist embracing her cultural heritage, but in a completely contemporary context. There is no doubt that she is making capital 'C' contemporary work that is clearly informed by her personal history.

Dance Central September 2004

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Curating Dance A conversation with Jeanne Holmes

AK: First Nations artists are a central element of the Van-

most culturally diverse city in North America, or do we just eat

couver dance scene. How do you approach presenting and

each others' sandwiches?". That’s about integration right? About

curating their work in the context of a festival like this?

really being a part of something. It’s about being welcomed and included. About belonging. There’s a space for me here. When

JH: That's a big question. It was fascinating to sit in on a

you are a contemporary art-maker, or a person making work

conversation about the protocols involved in presenting First

about contemporary life you’re a contemporary artist, regard-

Nations dance, and about the relationship between artists

less of your cultural or personal history. First Nations artists

and the communities. It was profoundly interesting to hear

need to be present on completely equal terms – on both sides

Michelle Olson talk about the echoes of residential schools

of the equation.

she found when she went into First Nations’ communities.

There are many artists, international as well as national,

AK: If you could encourage the local community to look ahead,

whose work deals with the experience of being a second or

what would you encourage them to do?

third generation of a traumatized people. Margaret Grenier, for example, has chosen to build work that is about recreat-

JH: I think that there is a real opportunity for Vancouver artists

ing and remembering and bringing lost traditional forms into

to break whatever mold they are working in. There is a culture

the context of her life in a reverential way, in a spiritual con-

of success here and with it comes the opportunity to take risks.

text. Lara Kramer in Montreal is another example of an artist

An artist like Robert Lepage who is well supported, is in a posi-

who deals with the reality of what is ultimately a cultural

tion of immense power with resources and privilege, but he still

genocide. I’ve had opportunity to ask artists about carrying

takes risks. Not everything is successful, but he still continues

that responsibility, to their ancestors, to their community,

taking chances. This community has lots of artists that chal-

to their history. I am eighth generation Canadian of English-

lenge the traditional cultural forms and they have the chance to

Scottish heritage, so I am as implicated in what happened to

expand and broaden their horizons. Vancouver is a potent en-

First Nations peoples as they are, or I should be. But I don’t

vironment right now, with sophisticated audiences and artists

have to live it the same way. It’s a heavy burden and I think

who could take risks, challenge themselves. And their audience.

the impact will be felt for many many generations.

Vancouver artists are now the vanguard. My role as a presenter is to offer support in taking those next steps, maybe through

AK: First Nations artists are both included and excluded from

commissions or presentation opportunities or by helping to

mainstream funding structures; they have access to separate

build tours. What we need to figure out are the different ways

resources, but they are underrepresented in terms of sup-

to give artists time and resources to take this really interesting

port for contemporary work. How can they be full partners

groove going on right now and move it to the next level

in a political and financial economy of contemporary dance under these circumstances?

AK: Thank you very much!

JH: That is a good question. I’m conscious of my role in this dialogue as a presenter. It’s not a level playing field at all and it’s hard to get away from the feeling of token representation.

I read an editorial about Toronto that asked "Are we really the Dance Central September 2004 3 Dance Central Januar y/Februar y 2014

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January/February 2014

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