Thorn Magazine

THORN Issue #1 Spring18

Trends That back Made a Come

Grunge Art Interviews Featuring Babes in Toyland Smashing Pumpkins Sonic Youth and Garbage

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Published by Sarah Mordecki

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ine az as g Ma nd w rst n fi r a ho tion the ely T g e ted ncep leas s hu and r a a i t e I s its to re . I w ung aking s r 8 m a fro ined 201 by g en m I w e h m in en eg d ter sue nce re w wh Coll o a e d is flue ultu rted ia o d n. in ar c sta umb ed t esig a l l t pu deas t Co wan ion d oose ng o i i t p e a h h ent and blica to c erest of T it. stud ago pu had int riod ge e n e n ic I a Ch ect o that uld b ng p s gru ture. j l a lo o pro knew at w or a ea w t’s cu I th on f t id nd i c i a rs top work y fi to e; m tim

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Grunge definitely shaped not only my music but also my aesthetic taste through college. It was inevitable that I would make work based on a influence of mine and inspire me to create a project off of it. I developed an appreciation for all music, not just the grunge sound, but something about it seemed to influence me more than the others. Then when I saw works by David Carson it opened my eyes to the grunge aesthetic. This broadened my horizons, making me realize there is more to grunge than the music, it can be a style; in art, fashion, and designs. So I thought exposing the culture of grunge in a intresting way was my goal and that’s what happened next. It was my idea and I was more than ready to get the ball rolling.

Ironically, I went and checked out and bought every book I could get my hands on that displayed grunge typography and aesthetic.

My intention is to get every person reading to appreiate the grunge culture and even subscribe.

Grunge is more than just a music genre, it started a whole movement which formed culture and society. The impact grunge had on America goes beyond music, it's an art, it's a style, it is more than just a loud guitar. It plays a part in popular culture which is important to share with an audience to show its effect on the world we live in today that all started over a decade ago. All of this has formed a lot of content that I have turned into a 40 pages magazine that shows just how much grunge plays a part society even today.

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Garbage

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Smashing Pumpkins. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 Image Feature. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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T R A E GRUNG

The word grunge, coined by the wri ter Paul Ramball, most of us associate with the subgenre of alternative rock originating in S eattle during the 1980’s. But, what about grunge ar t? Does such a movement, or such a phenomenon even exist? In design, typography, or the producti on of various other images, can we pinpoint a st yle and call it that? Regarding fashion aesthetics , the idea of ripped jeans, greasy hair, and wornout t-shirts are generally connected to an idea of gr unge, but in the visual art production, what would de scribe such a notion? What innovations, if any, di d the grunge artists bring to the world of art?

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THE GRUNGE IN PAINTING The grunge artists and designers emphasized the idea of freedom and of breaking the rules by following one’s inner voice.

With the new technological developments, and the popularity of the Macintosh putting aside the art of designing by hand, artists, like musicians, were able to rebel against conventions.

Concert posters, alternative music cd’s, video games and various zines, all products of this generation, appropriated the unfinished and chaotic aesthetics of the generation.

Now, in relation to the painting production, some critics suggest the existence of two branches. One is typified by colored drawings in a cartoon style relating the style of paintings by JeanMichel Basquiat.

The other branch is described as a more ‘painterly’ keeping with the tradition of painters such as Susan Rothenberg.

More than anything else, the style of grunge paintings is characterized as reflecting a sarcastic and twisted humor.

Stylistically, grunge paintings can be both abstract or figurative, but, they do lean more towards the figurative and the narrative. The depicted figures often look like cartoons or as creatures of a dream-world, showing an element of fantasy art here as well. With the atmosphere of a ‘workingclass’, produced paintings above anything else erase any idea of an elegance of paint and often allow for the messy and unfinished look of the artwork[3]. The melancholic and sometimes dark imagery, reflect the state of depression in which the entire generation lingered.

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THE GRUNGE ART MOVEMENT THE

o rm t nd e t ba the late ot, the at e r If we usical ro d stand ic l n its m na wou the ico very a s Nirv nter. A ic is the ge. s e n its c , its mu he gru lled t d ban ition of angst-fi as e , n defi ihilistic d the id nd te n a e e rela al w The reflect pathy, n ca isu m. a s , how orld of v ns lyric lation, freedo roup w o N r ig o ew g to th oster des such of is esire fo of this s i h t , d s ep ied the oncert arl Jam s, t? Th compan he idea r a t c e o P t ac Pil The with hich elp form t might ple f light w g m n h e r o al ne T e use o chnics, vents grunge a s form of o e t S at th te n, or thi of wh garding roductio ded ns, pyro ffects i o v p e e a o be. R ic design re was ecti sual on e proj ther vi attenti the u h o grap mon feat quent us , e d h h t c n a u re took w.

As s a com t in the f oggy or n that music. was ra f ic evide images, graphy, s. s m u o r f r to -fi ge m of lo red pho ssed lette o grun l s e disco e or distr e famou le th y g colla stood as runge-st e g r th Unde le of the sign was p e exam mental d ne. i r zi expe un maga Ray G e ape th nge h s d gru elpe son h lso of the , r a C ta vid hy or Da agazine bu typograp ers, t c e r i d th tt Its art ics of the m ntation wi king of le h a t e e m uc m aesth xperi ing and re ers. S ched e v o s i c H e p u . era[1] dding, rip provocativ ks often to Ferry e r r d n o h a the s ed bold an design w about Bry ouble ’s c d e produ and Carson ntire articl bats. The g e s n i cover . Once, an ith Zapf D s symbols e e b hi w a nerv designed he use of t ld have to ticle t u n ar Carso read, with ble and wo eeing the e p s gi t mor .S i e l m l e i a k r s a page g a crypto to try to m ont, w n only f ted like a Carso re interp g inspired rin as bo ing again st intere

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Today, v are na arious digita m lly crea t the wa ed as grung e effec ed images e tercolo x ts. Thi r imag to sug s nam ist and som es, wh gest th e e e re e re the with a colors lates both t heavy messiness o o bl te f incorp orating xture, reflec the mistakes eed and see ting th . Also, m out fo the sp ei nts an ra titled a , and variou y-like effect dea of dirt o image , blurre r s s d or sc grime, design the grunge splashes of r p ef at e a the atm rs today to h fect. Such im int, would b ched elp the e equa ages a osphe ll m r r This id ea of a e of heavy ro create artw e used by va y r o c witnes g i sed an runge look k, or underg rks that refle ous , like t r c expan o t u nd pun he ide sion to k a of a day. retro s music. tyle, h as As a did cultu n gen ’t las ral ph t gen eratio long enom . e Me eratio n is d The g non, e tal, n r s un grun c w res ge ulti Punk hich ribed ge , g n var a iou g aes and H rew u s a ess sm the ard p o e atti nce, usical tics c core. n Hea o t r lea ude o eflect eleme mbin The vy din e e the g g f Punk d the nts, b d the cre desig runge [4]. S anti- ut in i o a t a des te a n ner D autho me o uthor s a f i i r mo gn, a ew st vid C s, su the ty c y n a s res t imp d it i le of rson, h as s ide t s. ortant in thi ypog helpe qua s fie raph d ld t ya lity nd h o a f t Draw gru the n fro nge with mm art som o r e tha e of cultu n th 2 r Jam al pheno e leadin 50 inter , Sou view g fig m ndga enon, othe u r e s of s such rs, th rden thi insig a i , htful s book i Alice in s Nirvan s s era. a Ever portraya a movin Chains, , Perl a ybod l of e g, fu the e nd n x y s of th sence o Loves O traordin ny, and a f e publ musicia the grun ur Town ry music isher c ns, jo g a the w s, or urna e era in ptures j l t u h i h s poo ole sto st hang ts, club e word r, ry e s like to the tr , the rise rs at clu owners, Kurt bs. T agic of th C e histo d ry of obain, th eaths o e Seattle lling fi phen t e ome his cultu book is ts super cashsta non. ral, m a usic unique rs, and art’s Spring 2018 Issue

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The Witty Grunge-Based Narrative of Lora Zombie ra Zombie’s art Everything about Lo attitude, laced with screams: narrative , ding of watercolour ee bl e Th it. w kic qu and splashes of scratched-out fonts s to early grunge paint are throwback e effects’. The style poster art or ‘grung the early Ray Gun is synonymous with David Carson, Magazine styling of ichel Basquiat and elements of Jean-M styling of Susan the more painterly n mediums used by Rothberg. The mai , ink and watercolour Lora are fluorescent from the greatest whose tones comes d itself! These inks an palette of all, nature lours intertwine to meandering waterco s tive statements she’ create the bold narra – what all art should known for; they do icit a response! touch nerves and ill 12

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“The word ‘chaos’ is especially appropriate, the thing is that without harmony you cannot do it, too. The harmony is in colours, which I take from the best and endless source of colour solutions: from nature” - Lora Zombie

Lora Zombie honed her craft in her teens drawing fan art in the internet forums of the band, Gorillaz. Her success and interes ts transitioned into similar musings in the Banksy forums and with growing confidence, onto the social media stage: Tumblr, Facebook, Deviant Art and Instagram. The social platforms that Lora owes a lot too (another set of words for ‘owes a lot too’) and she is very open about her love of these platforms. She states frequently that they have allowed her work to be seen by the masse s, propelling her name into regions and community it might not have reached otherwise. Lora’s livestreams are as expressive and vibrant as she is! These are hosted quite frequently regularly, for charity or other functions, and in them you get to witness firsthand the ‘on the fly’ approach to her artistic creation.

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Nothing Beats DIY CLEARLY. What better way to be true to an anti fast fashion movement than to live it? Pile on layers: tee, plaid shirt, jeans, boots, toque, jacket. Where to find said layers? The best play would be a vintage shop.

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Th FASHION s ’ 0 9 ‘ e h t f o n e retur

Today looks a lot like the ’90s. Yet stylistically, what that meant wasn’t even clear back then. Unlike prior decades, the fashion of the ’90s cannot be easily summarized. For those who lived through it, there was a sense of transience, of not only a century but of a millennium drawing to a close. Of both relentlessly looking forward to the promise of the brave and the new and back via an exhaustive sputtering of revivals. To focus on the waiflike figure of Moss and other “heroin chic” girls, the ramrod-straight, no-frills minimalism of Calvin Klein or Marc Jacobs’s flannel-layered grunge is to 16

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ignore the preened and pouting models wrapped in the highly constructed clothes of Thierry Mugler (a futurist), Vivienne Westwood (a historicist) and Gianni Versace (a Versace). And how different their work was from John Galliano and Alexander McQueen, arch romanticist and renegade rebel respectively, whose clothes spectacularly revived the two French fashion houses Dior and Givenchy, adding fresh blood and a frisson of anarchy to the staid sphere of haute couture. And where does the high-gloss, highly sexed figure of Tom Ford fit in that litany of decade definers?

Focus on the ’90s long enough, though, and a distinct vision emerges. Beauty was redefined as something simpler, less constructed, echoed n interiors where shiny damask and flowery chintz were tastefully reswaddled in textured neutrals.

The stuffing was knocked out of the clothing of the ’80s, the puffing and padding deflated, leaving pieces pulled close against the body: T­-shirt dresses, slip dresses, hipster jeans, ribbed knits. Those clothes conspired to create that most powerful and enduring hallmark of the decade: a slim silhouette. Like 18th-century

portraits snipped out of black paper, a silhouette in fashion acts as a visual shorthand for a certain moment in time.

Glance at a figure bent in an S and you know it comes from the 1900s; a hand-span waist and pencil skirt is recognized as Dior’s curvaceous ’50s.

Fashion is a game of proportion.

Narrow-shouldered and narrowhipped, the ’90s were skinny.

The bombastic troika of Linda, Cindy and Christy was replaced

by Kate Moss in a slip dress designed by Klein, Galliano or Prada. Their approaches were different, but the silhouette was consistent. The imprint of fashion’s silhouette then affected the bodies themselves.

Supermodels became super

waifs. This redux isn’t limited to the runway, to the slithery bias dresses by everyone from Altuzarra to Tisci at Givenchy to the grunge redux at young labels like Marques’Almeida and Vetements, to Donatella Versace reviving Versace. It’s reflected in the television shows we watch, the music we now play on our iPods, the colors we gravitate to. Neo-Nirvana grunge bands with names like Drenge and Darlia (both from England, rather than Seattle) have emerged concurrent with cozy-glow sitcoms like “Grace & Frankie,” nostalgic in format rather than subject matter.

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The aesthetics of any given moment are a response to a complex series of economic realities, social norms, the moral dilemmas of the day and various technological and cultural occurrences — conventional wisdom being that a tumbling Dow Jones sends hemlines falling. But perhaps the most important message of fashion in the ’90s was the idea of authenticity. It’s a word thrown around a lot now by influential designers like Gosha Rubchinskiy and Vetements’ Demna Gvasalia, who were only teenagers back then but whose work seeks to capture a sense of the gritty reality expressed in the late Corinne Day’s photographs of Moss and the early work of Martin Margiela or Helmut Lang, whose

clothing — purposefully creased and shredded, constructed from synthetic fabrics with little embellishment — consciously rejected established paradigms of high fashion in search of something new.

Fashion is, undoubtedly, a reactionary business. Such viewpoints are a salve against the prevalence of overblown luxury, an antidote to corporate spin and shiny celebs famous for their fame. What a welcome break a bit of the ugly, awkward, creased and crumpled is from blown-­up body parts airbrushed to car paint finish and encased in Saran-wrap tight, painfully polished clothes. Suddenly, that breed of beauty looks like it comes from a different world. Or at least, from a different time.

SO WHY THIS REDISOVERED TASTE FROM THE ‘90S NOW?

“THE IDEA OF RICH LADIES BUYING WHAT WE USED TO WEAR”-Courtney Love

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Been to a shopping mall lately? Then you’ve noticed ‘90s grunge fashions are back in vogue this season. Flannel shirts, ripped jeans, even Guatemalan knapsacks are hot items for back-to-school.

Of course, we should have known what to expect from New York Fashion Week, the style world’s Oracle of Delphi. Back in February, designers from all over chimed in with their take on Seattle’s early 1990s boho chic.

Marc Jacobs revisited his favorite era, while others gave the layered flannel-and-T-shirt look a decidedly Park Avenue twist. The biggest shock came from conservative Yves St. Laurent whose creative director Hedi Slimane sent a valentine to the women of ‘90s indie rock, most especially Courtney Love. He paired babydoll dresses, combat boots and knobby cardigans to create a look straight out of a Hole video. Continued on page 20

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But, now, it’s time. Think about what came after Gen X’s humble reign. The end of the ‘90s begat Britney Spears. The 2000s brought Perez Hilton, “Gossip Girl,” and reality TV. Meanness, glitz, and materialism. Flashbacks of the ‘80s!

It’s our duty to share grunge. Though for sure nostalgia makes us nervous. Nostalgia, after all, is synonymous with age, and Generation X, as we know from the media stereotype about us, has always refused to grow up. Well, can you blame us? Adulthood looked terrifying. We were children during the 1970s and 1980s in the chaos of the Divorce Revolution. We never had a glimpse of what life was like before Vietnam and Watergate.

(People used to trust the government?)

THE BEGINNING

For card-carrying members of Generation X who equated selling out with mortal sin, this takes some getting used to.

But, I for one am thrilled. Sure, indie rockers of the ’90s were more about thrift stores than couture. And yes, we balked back then when the media and fashion world tried to capture our vibe. To begin with, we hated the word “grunge” as a catchall term for whatever it was we were. We grumbled when our musical idols, including Kurt Cobain, made the cover of Rolling Stone. We raised an eyebrow when Riot Grrrl was featured in the mainstream press. (One Sub Pop record label rep went so far as to provide a New York Times reporter with a phony grunge glossary.) How dare they try to define us! Dirty corporate vultures!

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We were the first batch of American kids who were taught that not all priests, cops, and Little League coaches were trustworthy. We got the message: grown-ups were creepy!

And so, as our bodies moved past puberty, we pulled our ratty hoodies over our heads and hovered in eternal adolescence. We spent our 20s wearing basically children’s clothes. The Brady Bunch boys would have coveted our striped tees. We wore gigantic butterfly barrettes and Mary Janes.

We wore overalls, for god’s sake! We all dressed like we were second graders. But

it wasn’t all awkwardness. Fashion for us was an adventurous DIY stew filled with attitude and androgyny. Remember the Lemonheads’ Evan Dando wearing a dress and pigtails? Kurt seemed to wear a dress every week. Remember Janeane Garofalo, the comic voice of our generation, in corduroys, chokers, and chunky heels? Doc Martens, we insisted, went with everything, including flouncy peasant skirts. We were the generation that realized thick-framed Buddy Holly glasses should be a thing again – for any gender. Why would we not want to share this?An equally glorious

renaissance was happening in black youth culture with groundbreaking hip-hop acts like Public Enemy and A Tribe Called Quest, an abundance of black sitcoms on TV, and gorgeous Afrocentric garb.

We should not have a crisis about the return of grunge, my fellow Xers. Middle age is upon us. Let’s handle it with grace. Let us share our butterfly barrettes with our sons and daughters. Take the neighborhood kids thrifting, maybe. And not be whiny know-italls when the media and the fashion world sometimes get things wrong.

Grunge wasn't overwhelmingly male Women were totally represented. L7, Lunachicks, Dickless, STP, 7 Year Bitch.

Courtney Love. Babes in Toyland – the all-female Minneapolis band whose first two albums are among the greatest of the era. Grunge was also inextricably linked with Riot Grrrl.

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INTERVIEW WITH

“I know riot grrrl was a fanzine. The media took that sound byte and flew with it. They labeled it onto us and I don’t think we were really aware of it. We don’t really think of us as women or men. We’re just humans playing music” 24

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BABES IN TOYLAND Spring 2018 Issue

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BABES IN TOYLAND With a summer of big festival dates ahead of them including a homecoming gig at Rock the Garden on June 21—the influential Minneapolis trio Babes in Toyland drove up into the hills of the It was a small warm-up gig at an California desert last month to play intimate and charming little bar their first public show in 14 years. and restaurant called Pappy and Harriet’s, and it was followed two days later by a celebrity-studded, sold-out show at the venue Before Babes took the stage The Roxy in Los Angeles. that first night in Pioneertown, California, I had the opportunity to sit with all three members of the band, which includes founding vocalist and guitarist Kat Bjelland and drummer Lori Barbero, plus Our far-reaching conversation covered bassist Maureen Herman, who everything from their reunion plans to joined around the time they signed their most surreal tour memories to to Warner Bros. in 1993. their encounters with Courtney Love and friendship with iconic ’90s rock bands like Nirvana. Did you know it was Lori Barbero’s idea to have Kurt Cobain an company record In Utero in Cannon Falls, Minnesota?

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Well, speaking of local lore, one other thing that’s been in the news lately is Pachyderm Studio. The remodeling of Pachyderm, the re-emergence, and then this really awful news recently of John Kuker’s passing. Do you have any memories you’d like to share about John, and also about Pachyderm, because I know you recorded Fontanelle there?

There was a quote in that Barbero: Pachyderm was really great.

Rolling Stone article that I Because, you know, you were in the wanted to read to you, to middle of nowhere, and it didn’t distract see what you think about you. But it was haunted, and it was pretty this particular assessment. amazing. One day I was down there, and The writer said, “the Dave [Grohl] was doing drum tracks, Andrea Swensson: I was thinking about group’s music was often and I took Kurt and Krist [Novaselic] how appropriate it is that we are in overshadowed by the to the Mall of America. Steve Albini Pioneertown with such a pioneering media’s focus on the women was doing their album and he was like, band in the riot grrrl movement and in rock angle when talking “You can’t go there, you’re going to get the punk rock scene in Minneapolis. I about Babes in Toyland.” mobbed!” And we were like, whatever. want to talk about your history as a Is that something, looking Just come to the Mall of America. We band, but before we begin, the big back now, that you feel had so much fun. I said, “Kurt, there’s question on everyone’s mind is: Why happened? the greatest shop I want to take you to now? Why a Babes in Toyland reunion called Barebones,” and that’s where he in 2015, and what brought you guys Herman: I think it happened bought everything for In Utero, and for back together? now, I was aware that it was the video for “Heart Shaped Box.” All of happening then, and I’m that, the fetus and baby and bones and Lori Barbero: In 2013, Kat and Maureen aware that it’s happening invisible lady and all of that stuff, all of got together in Minneapolis and went now. In fact, immediately, that is from Barebones. He spent tons of to Maureen’s family’s cabin in Minocqua, right now in this second. money, and he said they never cashed Wisconsin, and they started talking the check because it was his autograph. about doing a little reunion show. They And it was thousands of dollars. So he called me and I said—well, I didn’t say a got all of it for free. Kind of crazy. But definite yes, but I said, that sounds really yeah, he told me they never cashed cool. And then we kind of snowballed his check because it was Kurt Cobain’s Lori, I know that you’ve from there, with help from these three check with his autograph. drummer in other bands gentlemen that have a little business besides Babes in Toyland, called Powersniff. Without their help, but it’s been a while since this would not be happening at all. you’ve been in a band.

What’s it like to get behind the kit again?

If you could put together a dream Barbero: It’s really fun. I didn’t festival of bands, any bands come to realize how much I needed to mind? do it again. And now that I’m doing it, I’m so much mentally Bjelland: Oh my god, that takes a little bit and physically happier. It’s more thought than just a spontaneous amazing how therapeutic it question. Because I’d want to make it is, perfect. I would like Fantomas, though. and how much you need I really like those guys. That would be it. a kickass one.

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SONIC YOUTH 28

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INTERVIEW

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When you think of a band that is just about to release their nineteenth album, the first image to come into your head is a bunch of washed up Status Quo look-a-likes trying desperately hard to still be cool after all these years. When your thoughts go to the album itself, you can’t help imagining a dull, tired sounding and down right embarrassing record, the sound of a band parodying themselves twenty-odd years ago.

Sonic Youth are about to release their nineteenth album, but it’s absolutely impossible to think of Sonic Youth as an old or washed up band. Their name is still as synonymous with cool as it was when they first started out twentythree years ago. The band still look cool, they still have a big indie-rock following, and their influence can be heard in a lot of bands. They are also regular curators of All Tomorrow’s Parties, one of the coolest festivals you can be involved with.

What’s the latest Thurston? What have you been up to?

Thurston: Well, we just came back from a Midwestern tour that we did. It was fairly successful. It was pretty gratifiying in way. It wasn’t as good as; we went down south Sonic Youth has expanded to a five earlier which we really enjoyed, it was really good. But as far as that’s piece in recent years, wit long-time concerened were not anything collaborator Jim O’Rourke becoming a right now expect we’re getting full member, joining guitarists/vocalists ready to record our second Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo, bassist/ album. And that’s like waiting in vocalist Kim Gordon and drummer Steve the wings.

Shelley. Speaking on the phone a few Lee: You’ll see a video from our days before Sonic Youth’s appearance midwestern tour when we were at All Tomorrow’s Parties, Shelley spoke in Minneapolis. I think they’re about ATP, the creation of the new album, going to show a cut the band’s connection with the art world of that.

and the creative freedom his label has allowed them through the Sonic Youth Recordings series.

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So you had a crew with you when you were touring, or it just basically when you get to the town you set things up?

Kim: No, well what happened actually was that a friend of mine happened to be there, be teaching in Minneapolis , Tony Osler, and he just brought a student down and a camera and just set it up. So it was really you know...there’s no crew really it was just very circular.

What’s the latest Thurston? What have you been up to?

Thurston: Well, we just came back from a Midwestern tour that we did. It was fairly successful. It was pretty gratifiying in way. It wasn’t as good as; we went down south earlier which we really enjoyed, it was really good. But as far as that’s concerened were not anything right now expect we’re getting ready to record our second album. And that’s like waiting in the wings.

Lee: You’ll see a video from our midwestern tour when we were in Minneapolis. I think they’re going to show a cut of that.

So are you satisfied with it? Do you see yourselves as working more in that framework? Or concentrating more on gigs around the city? Or touring?

Or how do you see your future as far as the band.

Thurston: Well, we’re really sort of interested now in sort of professionalizing ourselves.

We’ve been around for a couple of years and um, we’re just working now on getting some kind of like business managament together Lee: Sounds so .strange.

Thurston: Yea, it is pretty strange cause’ we’ve always been pretty much do it yourself, and we set up the tours totally ourselves and we use no agency whatsoever.

So how do you see the future of like New York bands, do you see it as very lucrative or basically kind of like a sturggle or you have to work on a lot of different medias in order to get your point across?

Kim: Well, seems like bands have a harder time here. It’s hard to build or maintain any kind of momentum. Even, you know, even if you put one record out it’s hard to put another record out.

Where will you be playing in the future?

Thurston: We’ll be playing around the city in Febuary quite a bit. Now we have a new drummer, Jim, he’s actually like a good new healthy ingrediant to our band.

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H T I W W E I V R E INT

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SMASHING

PUMPKINS Spring 2018 Issue

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Nearly two decades after Mellon Collie’s release, the Pumpkins are releasing a deluxe remastered edition of the “It’s really the end of an era,” Smashing Pumpkins LP on December 3rd – frontman Billy Corgan told Rolling Stone in 1995, complete with 64 bonus shortly after the band released its double-disc, eratracks and a live DVD – as defining epic Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. part of a massive reissue It would be the last album the original Pumpkins project encompassing lineup – Corgan, guitarist James Iha, bassist D’arcy all of the band’s albums Wretzky and drummer Jimmy Chamberlin – made and B-sides from 1991as a collective unit, rendering their leader’s words 2000. “In many ways it’s even more prophetic. beautiful that we were able to make something so grand as kind of a final statement of solvency of that group together,” says Corgan. “But that was pretty much it. That was as good as it was going to get for the four of those people together.”

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First things first: Do you still have a band?

How did the Pumpkins themselves apart?

set

I can honestly say that we have not had a serious row in about a year. You have your little tiffs like “Who stole my water?” but no full-on screaming. We were playing the last show of Lollapalooza, and I thought, “I am really, really glad we’re still together.” It was really emotional.

We actually believed in the hope. We actually believed we were changing something and we actually believed it could be changed. I think that’s something that you can’t recreate. It would only be a few years later, and of course we had our own troubles, where all that optimism and hope went right out the window.

Do you see that same sense of hope when looking out at audiences on your current tour behind Oceania?

Something’s happening. I’ve played a lot of shows and you know when it’s going up and you know when it’s going down and you know when it’s going nowhere. It’s definitely going up. People are really excited about the band again.

Oceania is really the turning point. It’s really just turned a key that many people said could never be turned again.

An album like Mellon Collie gave me the confidence that I could do what I wanted to do, and if I did it really well there would be an audience for it. It really connects those legacies together. To be able to put your arms around 24 years of music, it’s really fun. Yesterday I literally played songs from 1988 all the way up to 2012.

It’s pretty crazy

When was the last time you listened to Mellon Collie all the way through?

Fairly recently. Because I had to approve the mastering. I think when I listen to old records, it puts me back in the atmosphere of what it felt like to make the record and who was there and what the room looked like. It’s more a sensory memory. If I go deeper than that I start to remember the funny stories. When we were recording we had a rehearsal space we called Pumpkinland. [Album coproducer] Flood wanted to record Mellon Collie in there, which really surprised us.

He liked the way we played in there. He thought we would be more comfortable.

We’re working in there and I think [co-producer] Alan Moulder and I were in the other room, and all of a sudden one of the pipes burst. And suddenly, this massive amount of water is coming out of the floor and was flooding the entire floor. We were trying to throw all the equipment in a corner where it hadn’t flooded.

We’re all laughing ‘cause it’s so absurd.

But meanwhile there’s gallons of water coming out of this pipe and you don’t know when it’s going to stop. You remember these funny little memories when you listen.

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INTERVIEW 36

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GARBAGE

I’d never imagined myself in a band. So the fact that I’ve had such a long career without really naturally pursuing it is really astounding. It’s taken me a long time to accept what I do for a living and actually feel like I have anything of value to add to the equation

Spring 2018 Issue

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Our lives have been completely mental,” said Shirley Manson of the “extraordinary adventures and misdemeanors” that have made up her life since she’s been the frontman of the rock band Garbage, which has been around for more than 20 years.

It’s a milestone she and her bandmates marked this week with the publication of This Is the Noise That Keeps Me Awake, a book that documents those two decades through various snapshots, lyric pages, cocktail recipes, endless tales of tours and label struggles, and no shortage of ultra-stylized press photos (including one for SPIN that features Manson mid-pee).

“We just decided one day that we wanted to put something together for when we depart this mortal coil, that speaks to what we did in our lives for all the little ‘uns we have in our lives right now that are too young to fully appreciate what it is we do,” Manson said of how the band ended up getting into publishing. That’s not all she’s been up to: Manson is also “beyond thrilled” about the fact that Garbage is about to coheadline a summer-long tour with Blondie. She talks why Debbie Harry is now more important than ever at 72, and shares some of her more present-day adventures and misdemeanors at 50, in her culture diet, here.

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Speaking of shows, how would you describe your relationship with Debbie Harry’s music?

What’s the last thing you saw at the theater?

I’m ashamed to say I have not been to the theater in 18 months... but to be fair, that’s because I’ve been playing them myself. I was meant to go to Who’s Afraid Of Virginia Woolfe

by Edward Albee last month at the King’s Theatre in Edinburgh, Scotland, but I ended up getting drunk with a bunch of my old school friends instead.

I would prefer to describe my relationship with Debbie Harry because it is who she is as a woman that has had the greatest impact on me. It is the fact that she is 72 years old and was just featured on the cover of Nylon magazine which is read primarily by young women.

It’s the fact that she just released a record in the so-called twilight of her life, let alone her career, to critical acclaim. It is the fact that she still walks and talks with great authority. It is the fact that she still has a thrust and thrill about her. It is all these things and more that I admire about her and am grateful for. She is a marvelous beacon, and not just for me or for women in music, but for all women all over the world who fear they have lost their agency because they have earned themselves a wrinkle and passed the age of 25.

In interviews back then, it seemed you felt you had to defend yourself as an interloper working with three producers.

Yeah, well, there was that. When we emerged in 1995, it really was frowned upon. The idea that a producer was in a band, and, of course, nowadays, with the advancement of technology, everybody is a producer. Like, Grimes is an incredible producer.

She also happens to be a great artist. But nobody is looking at Grimes going, “Hmm, she’s a producer. That’s uncool.” People were very suspicious of us when we came out. Looking back now, we were almost an archetype for where music went in the end.

What are your most vivid memories of the band forming?

We just discovered all these tapes that we filmed of ourselves back then that I haven’t seen since 1995.

And the weird thing is the minute I saw the films I could immediately remember being there, what it felt like, what my clothes felt like it. I mean, it was crazy. It was like some weird existential experience [laughs]. It’s like that Proust paragraph [in Remembrance of Things Past] about the taste of the madeleine. A lot of the memories are fresh because I’ve just been looking at these little videos. We all seem so young and innocent and it’s just crazy What do you remember about hearing the songs on Garbage for the first time?

Coming from a very aggressive rock band, they felt much lighter in some ways, much more poppy than the two bands I’d been in before. It was a very peaceful experience making that record in some ways, but I was so uncomfortable the whole time because I didn’t really know the boys at all at that point.

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Movements in Culture Every once in a while, we have some sort of movement in music that everyone suddenly wants to work in, like grunge or rap or disco or some other musical phase, and then suddenly, that'll be the thing to do.

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