Rapid Fire

NINE QUESTIONS Rapid-Fire

INTERVIEW

Brigette McInnis-Day

Chief People Officer, UiPath By Mastufa Ahmed

1

Top business imperative today?

Retaining and attracting workers with the help of emerging technologies, putting a techenabled business continuity plan in place

2

How to bring in and retain the best talent?

Offer flexibility and choice in how and where work is done, allow employees to work in ways that suit their individual needs and preferences – that's how leaders can support diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts and foster a culture of trust, transparency, and flexibility

3

Biggest challenge you see today?

Maintaining employees’ wellbeing

4

Your strategy for addressing that?

Offering mental health-related courses and sessions to employees, allowing flexibility to work remotely, promoting worklife balance by offering unlimited PTO to encourage employees to take time off As organisations operate with limited bandwidth, process inefficiencies mean employers must consider either making changes or risk losing talent

5

Best way to hyperpersonalise for flexibility?

Work closely with your team to identify which roles are best suited to an office environment and what types of work are conducive to such an environment

6

What if flexibility isn't enough?

Workers need tools like automation to make their

current roles more satisfying, and organisations will also need to provide training programmes for their existing workforce to equip them with the necessary skills to manage these software robots

7

Biggest challenge you predict for the future?

Addressing the skilled labour shortage caused by The Great Resignation and restructuring measures undertaken by organisations based on the macro environment

8

Why are the restructuring measures a problem?

World over, office workers are feeling heightened pressure at work because their co-workers are quitting or because of their company’s decision to downsize; labour shortages and mundane work are causing people to quit or quietly quit

9

The best way forward in your view?

Continued investments in skills and leadership development to ensure a happy, successful, and skilled workforce that can weather any storm

WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP CAN BE GAME CHANGER FOR INCLUSIVE FUTURE OF WORK

BREAKING FREE FROM THE STEREOTYPES IN THE INSURANCE SECTOR, PAMELA THOMSON-HALL SHARES HER JOURNEY OF BEING A CHAMPION FOR WOMEN AND BRINGING ABOUT A CHANGE IN A MALE-DOMINATED INDUSTRY

By Ramya Palisetty

Many organisations find it difficult to turn their intentions of inclusiveness into reality. For the Head of International and Executive Officer at WTW, Pamela Thomson-Hall, “it has always been important to talk about subjects from a gender perspective so as to take purposeful steps towards improving the deficits.”

With the intent to inspire people, she has made some courageous moves in her two decade-long career at WTW, where she has not only put women but also men into roles that were different from what people thought was the right move.

In an exclusive chat with us, Hall talks about the struggles of being one of the first few women in the insurance sector, how she built herself along with the business, why there is a need for initiatives to give that extra push to underrepresented talent, the importance of benchmarking in pay parity, mentorship and its valuable role in the lives of women returning to work postmaternity, and more.

As one of the first few women in the insurance sector at a time when men were the dominant majority, how has the journey been? What were some of the initial struggles you had to face and how has the industry changed in recent times?

I began my professional journey at a law firm 26 years ago but since there was little chance of progress there, I left the industry and came to the insurance sector. At that time, there were very few female role models in leadership. I could actually count them on one hand! But my predecessor gave me hope and that has been my biggest takeaway in my career – the importance of role modelling. Having visible women in leadership at the top is critical as we build an inclusive future of work. From tackling bigger problems to breaking stereotypes, my journey was a series of hurdles turned into opportunities.

From being invisi-

ble to standing out: In the early years at WTW, as the company grew, women from different countries were recruited and when I looked at the leaders, one in particular from Argentina, she was a very feminine, colourful and glamorous woman – so different from the women I saw in London.

Inclusivity and diversity is not about being nice but creating that equaliser for underrepresented talent of all nature

Women here were trying to look like men, dressing up in a way that made them physically invisible.

I could actually relate to women in other countries that were brought into leadership more than I could relate to my peers. These women gave me courage and hope that the industry would change.

Breaking free of the

Gentlemen's Club: The insurance sector was very much like a Boy’s Club or a Gentleman’s Club when I had joined, where women weren’t invited to drinks after work, and in some bars in London, women weren’t even allowed. There were some peculiar and genderbiased rules but slowly they started to fall away.

Supercharging from

within: We set up the Global Diversity Council to purposefully address gaps. Around 2002, we realised how the insurance sector was lagging behind other professional and financial service sectors. With technological advancements, we actively started managing data to understand what we, as an organisation, were doing through our recruitment, hiring and promotional process. Our company doubled in size in 2016 and we decided to set up our Global I&D committee to delve deeper into the issue of being inclusive and bringing forth underrepresented talent.

Changing the business

with ‘why’: We embedded inclusivity in our design of policies and procedures, making it a part of the fabric of how we hired, retained, promoted, attracted and talked about talent. It wasn’t just an add-on as we wanted it to be led by the business, for the business and not by HR. For the business to lead it and embed it within their everyday, we realised explaining the “why” was imperative. We understood that having diversity of thought at the leadership table results in better decisions, which has been repeatedly proven through empirical data. From a gender perspective, it gives you a 50 per cent better return on your investment and from a multicultural framework, exponentially better decision making by 33 per cent.

Back in the day, the "why"’ was missing. No one really understood it and even today it is still not spoken about often. But the ‘why’ was a game changer for our organisation when we could explain to people that inclusivity and diversity is not about being nice but creating that equaliser for underrepresented talent of all nature including gender. The sea change it brought was a surge of women into leadership roles.

Bold moves for visibil-

ity and voice: My first business leadership role was leading the Central Eastern Europe, Middle-East and African divisions. 10 years ago, it was hard to imagine a woman in a leadership role running industries in the Middle-East, Africa, Central Eastern Europe including Russia and Ukraine which were male-dominated patriarchal societies. But the organisation made some bold moves, putting me and a few other women in clear leadership roles. In some select business areas, if there was a balance between a man and a woman and both could do the job, the woman got the chance because we wanted to give them the visibility and voice, which was critical.

Tipping the point: In every industry, there is a tipping point that we need to reach that we haven’t reached yet when it comes to diversity, where originally people and government, in particular, around the world are mandated to have a woman on the board. Now, if the board comprises two or three members, it’s fine but with 10 members, a woman on her own wouldn’t make a difference. So, we, as an industry, needed to get to that tipping point of over 30 per cent where the tone in the room starts to change and the discussions are different and more open.

Why do we still see single digit percentage of women in management roles or even as Fortune 500 CEOs? What are the ways in which we can tackle this crisis as we move ahead?

The tipping point is just the beginning, and it really needs to trickle down to the bottom line. Even when you reach the tipping point in the leadership team, there is still work that needs to be done underneath. In the

insurance industry, from a gender perspective, you come across more parity at entry level but that trickles away as time goes by for various reasons, including unclear career paths and business being discussed after work, which results in women missing out on the real bonding. While we see efforts being made at the top, it’s not the same in the middle. Hence, it is essential for people managers to be we get to a position where caregivers and people with other commitments are able to take advantage of the flexible work environment, while also being present at the workplace where opportunities are arising for them to be visible.

The extra push: At WTW, we launched the Next Three project for women where we partnered high-performing women with women who just joined the company to

aware of the need to be inclusive.

Flexible work: After COVID-19, flexible and agile work was fast-tracked, which is both a blessing and a hindrance. While we can now work from any part of the world, we still haven’t honed the skills to design inclusive people management activities for those not visible in the office. And that’s probably the next evolution for the industry; to make sure that

give them visibility and lead ship, while learning with new team members remotely on new projects. What it did was raise the profile of highperforming women, with a number of them getting promotions, and those who were thinking of leaving, stayed because of our commitment to ensure they were seen and valued.

Double deficit: These tactics are equally applicable to the underrepresented talent pool, where the challenge lies in intersectionality. For instance, if you belong to an underrepresented nationality, race or religion, and you are a woman, then you have different challenges and a double deficit in the ability to progress. And the challenge of intersectionality is prevalent among men too. But the good news is that we are talking about it and taking purposeful actions to bring balance to the workforce.

With access to a global talent pool now, why are companies, DEI and HR leaders still struggling to actively hire underrepresented talent?

In any industry today, we are all vying for the same talent: good people who can make a difference. But there just aren’t enough people out there to satisfy the need. Although there is a genuine talent shortage with the war for talent on, the great thing is underrepresented talent isn’t in hiding anymore. It is a good position for individuals to be in.

But with the pipeline relatively sparse, we need to continuously be purposeful and nurture them. It’s not enough to retain them with money but with career development opportunities, extraneous benefits, flexible work, training, personal skill development, etc. I believe there is no substitute to nurturing talent and it is essential to look after them.

Coming to gender pay parity, as the International Head at WTW, can you enlighten us as to what leaders can do to decrease the pay gap, and what are some of the key trends you have witnessed in the recent past?

I believe it is the responsibility of leaders to get it right and understand the drivers of any lack of parity. One should actively manage it without letting it drift or ignore it. We should have frank conversations with people about why it exists and what steps can be taken to address it. While bigger companies have it easier, in smaller companies, it is harder to address as they simply don’t have the money.

This is where mentoring, coaching and sponsorship come in. Mentors can help an individual struggling to understand the pay situation and have a frank conversation. Sometimes you don’t get aninstant answer because your people manager wasn’t on it and wasn’t purposefully looking at the data to find the gap. So, it is the leaders who have to actively manage it consistently and constantly.

We have all seen the data on steep mid-career dropoffs for women. What are

You come across more gender parity at entry level but that trickles away as time goes by for various reasons, including unclear career paths and business being discussed after work, which results in women missing out on the real bonding

the ways in which we create an infrastructure for newmoms, who are on maternity leave but are eager to contribute a certain amount of time to their jobs?

I, myself, have lived through this and have gone through it. I don’t think it is the duty of the woman to manage it, it is the leaders and people managers who should manage it. The return to work should not fall on the shoulders of a woman.

Legally, in some countries, contacting women on their maternity leave is not allowed so they can have time with the newborn without work pressure. So, any desire to keep in contact with work during maternity leave should be driven by the woman and not the company. And the people managers have to assess if she is able to devote the time to work.

In most cases, women are eager to keep in touch so they don’t feel excluded from the progression in the workplace. Hence, getting the same information as other colleagues becomes critically important so that when they are back, they are not back to a vacuum. In the UK, we have keeping in touch days, where you are legally allowed to be in touch and the woman is legally allowed to come into work without forfeiting her rights to maternity leave. It also inculcates a sense of belonging to the organisation.

Finally, what is your advice for women on financial well-being since wealth is never really theirs to keep?

My advice to women is to educate themselves. As someone who belongs to a traditional patriarchal society in the UK, when I started working, my mother was very confused, and so were my husband’s parents, as to why I wanted to work and why I needed money when I have a husband. There are a number of reasons why women want to work, and for me, it was about my sanity, getting fulfilment, and having a sense of purpose. Being financially independent means that I can look after myself and my family.

Growing up, I didn’t have financial literacy, but I saved my money and got some great benefits from my firm through my pension. I only gained literacy in finances quite late in life so I would say, start learning early and avail the amazing opportunities that organisations are showcasing to educate women in their finances so they can make informed decisions.

A key focus for L&D going into 2023 should be business alignment

Venkat Subramaniam of Degreed believes that learning is core to business success and organisations need to invest in the right processes and technologies to adapt to continuous change

By Asmaani Kumar

Venkatachalam Subramaniam is the Regional Vice President of APAC at Degreed. He comes with over 2 decades of rich & extensive global exposure in Strategic Business Development & Management, Operations Excellence, Stakeholder Engagement and People Management. Venkat is a People Leader who has successfully led and motivated teams in cross-cultural & geographical environments towards growth and success in the organisation; created a clear & compelling view of the future through coaching and execution.

Before joining Degreed, Venkat was a General Manager, Head of Sales at Oracle NetSuite India. He also had successful stints at ADP and Adrenalin — leading HCM product and services organisations. In conversation with People Matters, Venkat outlines critical trends that will impact L&D strategies moving forward, the urgency of investing in power skills, aligning learn-

ing solutions to business outcomes and employee experience and more.

What are those key talent and business trends that will impact how organisations design L&D programmes in these turbulent times?

Organisations are dealing with multiple pressures in these turbulent times, including the shift to hybrid and remote work, and the recession impacting some countries (less so in APAC region, but still a factor in the global economy). Understanding the outlook is key for L&D teams planning for 2023, but that ties in with a wider shift — becoming more strategic and aligned with the business. Because everyone in the organisation needs to see, clearly and undoubtedly, that learning is core to business success. That’s the only way you can justify learning budgets and gain buy-in for innovations in learning.

With resilience becoming a core value to all businesses, how does the “Power Skills” economy factor in when empowering a resilient and futureready workforce? How does Degreed support growing enterprises in building up these “Power Skills”?

Power skills are known by this name because they are relevant to many different roles, departments, and business needs. They are truly powerful skills to cultivate in your organisation as it makes people a lot more deployable to different areas. That builds resilience. With uncertainty on the horizon for every organisation, having a strong collection of different power skills can make your workforce more adaptable as needs change.

Which leaves the question, why aren’t more organisations building power skills? It’s because they cannot be easily taught in a traditional way; you cannot learn them easily in a classroom. They also can’t be assessed as easily as a hard skill like coding. Degreed helps organisations build power skills through several means, including enabling L&D to curate the best learning resources available to teach a power skill in different ways. Whether through an online pathway, videos, podcasts, or peer learning. Then a learner can stretch their skill by practising it on real-world applications like stretch assignments or projects. It allows someone to develop the skill in the best way that suits them and the skill being learned.

Indeed, it’s the practice that really embeds a skill (any skill, but particularly power skills). Degreed can offer learners opportunities like stretch assignments or mentoring, in their learner homepage, based on the skills they’re currently learning. Not only does that make the skill more memorable, but it also provides tangible proof that someone is able to do ‘communication’ or ‘change management’.

With the world of people and work changing in unprecedented ways, what new challenges to designing and implementing L&D

programmes should leaders be mindful of? What are some best practices you would recommend to overcome them?

A key focus for L&D going into 2023 should be business alignment. For a while L&D leaders have been speaking about becoming more strategic and having more impact in the boardroom. Now is the time to put that into action. Why? Because more business leaders are grappling with challenges, like skills gaps and retention, that learning has a direct impact on. layoffs happening simultaneously, talent retention becomes an urgent priority. How can learning solutions today support businesses in designing the right EX and driving employee engagement for better talent retention?

Business leaders face an interesting time, with layoffs and quiet quitting impacting productivity, morale, and other outcomes. Simultaneously, you cannot ignore the state of the global market. That gives learning leaders an unparalleled opportunity to show how learning isn’t

Uncertainty is the only certainty these days and learning is at the forefront of this, one of the first to be impacted, because as a business suddenly changes, so too do the skills that employees need

To achieve this, focusing on business outcomes when designing L&D programmes and reporting on success, will help senior stakeholders see how learning is linked to the business. Instead of simply stating the number of courses completed or the learning hours logged, L&D needs to look at onboarding savings, time to productivity, workforce agility (to be able to switch to new roles easily), and so forth. a nice-to-have but essential for resilience, growth, and performance. Retention is a key part of this, and learning can impact this by having a focus on career longevity for each employee. If someone feels like their organisation is invested in their long-term future and that they’re “going somewhere” in the company, they will be less inclined to leave.

Likewise, offering personalised learning opportunities that are tailored to someone’s interests and goals will make the overall experience more engaging. We’ve become used to having content served up seamlessly through Netflix, Spotify, Facebook and others. It’s time for company technology to do the same.

Finally, what would be some words of advice you would like to share with our community on designing L&D programmes ‘Built for Disruption’?

It’s important to note that the days of having a rigid three to five-year strategy are gone. Learning leaders, above all, need to be comfortable with change and their strategy needs to be able to pivot as needed. Uncertainty is the only certainty these days and learning is at the forefront of this, one of the first to be impacted, because as a business suddenly changes, so too do the skills that employees need.

To achieve this, having processes and technology that can easily adapt is a must. So too is the ability to understand the market, changing needs, and new trends. Gathering skill data from your various HR and learning systems will help you understand the internal environment for your employees. Simultaneously, gather market data to understand how skills are evolving and where your business needs to be next, in order to thrive.