Music Business UK - Q3 2021 by musicbizworldwide

Q3 2021

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In this issue... 14

Stuart Camp & Gaby Cawthorne

Stacey Tang

Trenton Harrison-Lewis

Ed Howard & Briony Turner

Becky Richardson

Sam Denniston

Robert Harvey

Laura Monks & Tom Lewis

Solomon Adesiyan

Grumpy Old Management

RCA Records

Warner Music / ADA

Atlantic Records

Foundation FM

Verdigris Management

Songwriter

Decca

Trust It Entertainment

Contributors ALEX ROBBINS

CHRIS FRAZER SMITH

EAMONN FORDE

Chris Frazer Smith is an acclaimed photographer who has won awards including the Lucie International Photographer of The Year Award, The Taylor Wessing Portrait Prize, and The BJP Portrait Of Britain. In this issue of Music Business UK, Frazer Smith shoots Sam Denniston, the founder of London-based Verdigris Management.

Eamonn Forde has been writing about all areas of the music business since 2001. He is Reports Editor at Music Ally and regularly writes for IQ, The Guardian, The Big Issue, Q and The Quietus among other titles. He completed his PhD at University of Westminster in 2001. His latest book, Leaving the Building: The Lucrative Afterlife of Musical Estates, is out now.

HAZEL SAVAGE

JACK NEEDHAM

RHIAN JONES

Hazel Savage is the CEO and co-founder of Musiio – an artificial intelligencepowered platform for the music industry. Musiio offers tools including a songsearching platform, as well as an AI-driven process that identifies songs likely to become hits. Savage worked at Pandora, Universal and HMV before launching Musiio in 2018.

Jack Needham is the Senior Staff Writer for both Music Business Worldwide and Music Business UK. Needham has written for the likes of The Guardian, the BBC and Mixmag, and was previously freelance Staff Writer for tech and culture publication Wired. He interviews songwriter Robert Harvey and artist manager Sam Denniston in this issue.

Rhian Jones is a respected freelance journalist who often focuses on the music industry. In addition to writing regularly for MBUK and Hits Daily Double, she is a Contributing Editor for Music Business Worldwide. In this issue, Jones interviews Foundation FM founder Becky Richardson, plus Trust It Entertainment’s CEO, Solomon Adesiyan.

Alex Robbins is an illustrator whose work has previously appeared on the likes of the New Yorker, Time Out, Wired, TIME and i-D. Oh, and Music Business UK. He has once again created our cover image based on a quote from our lead feature. This time, those words come from Stuart Camp, manager of Ed Sheeran and founder of Grumpy Old Management.

WELCOME

EDITOR’S LETTER I’m going to assume that, what with you being a sentient human with internet connectivity, you’ve had quite enough motivational quotes thrust at you for one lifetime. So here is a refreshing alternative: perhaps the greatest un-motivational quote of all time. It’s from Kurt Vonnegut’s book Bluebeard. It was first published in 1987, eleven years before Google launched a rudimentary search engine. And it is singularly the most prophetic and yet deflating forecast of What The Internet Went And Did To Us you could ever read. “A moderately gifted person who would have been a community treasure a thousand years ago has to give up, has to go into some other line of work, since modern communications put him or her into daily competition with nothing but the world’s champions.” Vonnegut was commenting on the mass-media machines of the age – the printing press, terrestrial television, radio. But he nailed a future where instant access to peerless entertainment – from all nations – has seen the erasure of prosperity and self-worth for local creative heroes. It’s a trend that has been cruelly reinforced by digital analytics. Wow, 50,000 people are listening to your music on Spotify each month? You and 71,000 others around the world, pal. (I didn’t conjure up this stat: it’s on Spotify’s own Loud & Clear site, via a morale-crushing, Imposter Syndrome-verifying calculator.) This unmerciful reality is doubly harsh for the UK music industry and its artists. Britain is, after all, one of the most powerful cultural exporters of the past 70 years, with everyone from The Beatles to Queen and Adele changing the face of global pop music forever more. But breaking a British music star across the globe is getting verifiably harder. According to the BPI, overseas (ex-UK) recorded music revenue from UK-signed artists grew 6% in 2020 – yet the global market grew faster,

Tim Ingham

“The UK is not becoming the most hospitable place for the major record companies. In fact, it’s getting outwardly hostile.”

up 7.4% (IFPI). The BPI further warns: “[The] UK’s overall share of global music revenue is slipping... the UK currently accounts for around 10% of the global total, down from a peak of 17% in 2015.” In short: the global power of the UK market, and UK artists, is statistically shrinking. Artists from Latin America, Asia and elsewhere are eating into that global power, and will continue to do so. The major record companies gamely continue to invest heavily in UK artists, anticipating that the discovery of the next Adele/Queen/ Ed Sheeran will remedy this troubling trend. In 2019, says the BPI, UK record companies jointly spent a whopping £250 million on A&R alone – up by 50% on the same figure in 2014. Thing is, the UK is not becoming the most hospitable place for these same record companies. In fact, it’s getting outwardly hostile. The DCMS Select Committee’s infamous report from earlier this year slammed the three majors, calling for an investigation into their UK market power. Now, the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) is probing Sony Music’s acquisition of AWAL – a process that could realistically see AWAL ripped from Sony’s proprietorship and sold off in pieces. Meanwhile, the major record companies have shareholders who will, as time rolls on, scrutinise every expenditure on their balance sheets. Said shareholders will inevitably question if the UK and its artists warrant their current level of A&R investment, or if this money would be better deployed in faster-growing markets. The determination from some political quarters to give the majors a black eye in the UK right now is only likely to make such an idea more appealing to key decision-makers. If you’re in daily competition with nothing but the world’s champions, it doesn’t help when your own countrymen are throwing rocks at your head.

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‘I WAKE UP EVERY DAY AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. LIFE IS NEVER DULL.’ Stuart Camp is the manager who has masterminded Ed Sheeran’s journey from open mic nights to record-breaking stadium tours, via more than 50 million album sales. That will soon be 50 million-plus-quite-a-lot, with = due on October 29. Here Camp tells MBUK about their journey, their relationship and how, over 10 years, everything has changed, except the important stuff…

y a quirk of scheduling, MBUK ends up talking to Stuart Camp on the tenth anniversary of the release of Ed Sheeran’s debut album, +, on September 9, 2011. Asked what he was doing a decade to the day ago, Camp doesn’t hesitate. “I’d have been with Ed in HMV buying as many copies as we could.” On September 9, 2021, he is again with Ed, only this time in Tampa, ahead of his client playing at the NFL’s Kickoff show, ahead of the opening game of the season. 14

Things have changed – but not everything. Because back in HMV, Camp and Sheeran weren’t simply trying to boost their chart chances, they were sharing and enjoying what they knew was a special moment, and a feeling that still resonates. “There was a real sense of excitement about going to buy your own record, our record. I’d never experienced that before, or seen anyone else buying our record. It really was, and still is, quite something when you see it in the flesh, out in the wild,” Camp recalls. “And to be fair, that hasn’t really diminished. It will be the same

for =. 10 years ago, bloody hell.” + would go on to top the charts in the UK, reach No. 5 in the US, shift around four million units and prove to be just the start of a career that has seen Sheeran become one of the most successful artists of all time, whether measured by record sales or live revenues. His second and third albums, x (2014) and ÷ (2017) went to No. 1 on the UK and US album charts, selling around 18 million and 21 million units respectively. His 255-date ÷ tour is the highest grossing of all time, bringing in revenues of $776m.

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Ed Sheeran

Camp has been there every step of the way, from the wholly unremarkable pub next door to the Rocket offices where the pair first sealed their deal and plotted world domination, to, well, to the wholly unremarkable pub next door to the Rocket office where, last year, they celebrated their own 10th anniversary. (Although this time the venue was chosen for nostalgia rather than convenience, Camp having ended his JV with Sir Elton John’s company in 2018 to go solo via his Grumpy Old Management company.) On October 29, Sheeran will release =, his fifth album (including 2019’s No. 6 Collaborations Project, another record that topped the charts on both sides of the Atlantic). Camp looks ahead to the launch and talks about what success looks like these days, the expansion of the Grumpy empire, Atlantic, Adele, never selling the catalogue, album number six, a tour that will last until 2025, and what he’s learned 10 years on from pushing a trolley round HMV...

And how would you say you have changed in those 10 years? I don’t think I have, particularly. I think perhaps I’ve learned to trust my instincts and my gut a lot more. Before, there were a few instances where decisions were swayed, or I was pressured to do something, and I had a bad feeling. Either I didn’t really like someone, or something didn’t feel right, and I’ve been proven correct. That’s happened on two or three occasions. So, yeah, I’m happy to go more on instinct as a whole. What about the relationship with Warner and Atlantic Records in the UK – how has that changed? There has been some turnover of senior staff, but [UK Co-President] Ed Howard’s been there since day one, as has [WMG’s CEO of Recorded Music] Max [Lousada], so there’s always been that close relationship; it’s always been very frank and honest.

It will be, yes. We’re in discussions with them about moving forward. So, how nervous are they? Or maybe how nervous should they be? [Laughs] No, listen, it’s been a long relationship and we’d love to extend it. How fit for purpose is a record deal signed 11 or so years ago, because it was signed sort of on the cusp of the switchover between sales and streams, physical and digital, wasn’t it? Yes, and very much everything was a 360 deal back then. There have been a couple of points along the last 10 years where we’ve gone back and renegotiated our terms. Warner were open and honest enough to realise that we’d outgrown that deal, and so it’s been adjusted. There’s been a few major tweaks and, like any negotiation, as long as everyone feels vaguely happy walking out of the room, then we’re good, and we’ve always had that.

“Our relationship hasn’t changed, it’s probably even stronger that it was.”

How has your role and relationship with Ed changed in the past decade? It hasn’t really, to be honest with you. The machine has got a lot bigger and there are more things to deal with, but our relationship hasn’t changed; it’s probably even stronger than it was back then. My role is still to do everything. There’s just a little bit more of everything. I guess back then there was more hustle though, right? Trying to get people to listen, trying to get the record played.. Yeah, but we still treat what we do the same way, we never take anything for granted. On the eve of Bad Habits coming out, we were really nervous. We genuinely didn’t expect to be No. 1 for what is probably about to be 11 weeks [it was, and was then replaced at the top by Sheeran’s next single, Shivers]. Hand on heart, we’d have been happy with two or three. We never, ever take anything for granted, we always do as much as we can, we always do the work. 16

There’s a bit more that we do ourselves, and we’re certainly a bit more… not headstrong, but clearer about what we want in terms of creatives and videos and how we present ourselves; a lot of that comes from [Sheeran and Camp] now. But the relationship is still very strong, it’s still very collaborative and very open. We’re all honest with each other. I mean, I’ve known Max 25 years. There’s nothing we can’t say to each other – and we often don’t [laughs]! It’s like any marriage or long-term relationship: if you can be honest with each other and still make it work, then you’re onto a winner. It’s when you’re stalking around, being miserable and not saying how you feel, then there’s a problem. In terms of the deal, this is album five in a six-album deal, right?

You mentioned Ed [Howard] now being Co-President with Briony [Turner] at Atlantic Records UK. Can you talk about how the label has changed under their stewardship, and what their strengths are as leaders? I think it’s a fresh injection, and they make a good team. We know Briony really well, and Ed’s been our man since day one. The team feels a lot more cohesive than it has done for a while, everyone’s on the same page. There have never been any disagreements or differences of opinion, everyone’s very focused on what we want to do, we know how to get there and we just want to work together to get it done. Moving on to publishing, I wonder what your thoughts are on very big name writers selling their catalogues, whether or not you’ve been approached and if it’s something you would ever consider? Well, I’m not a songwriter, so I can’t really comment, but I know Ed thinks it’s strange [as a concept] that there’s something he creates, puts everything into, something very personal, and then he gives it away

LEAD FEATURE Griff

to someone else. Well, not ‘gives it away’, you’re getting paid, obviously, but you hand over ownership. With us, we’re in a situation where we are successful enough in other areas of our life that we don’t need to do that. We have been approached, but it’s something he’ll never do and he’s in that lucky position where it’s not something he has to consider. But, it’s an interesting model and fair play to Merck [Mercuriadis, founder of Hipgnosis Songs Fund] and everyone else; it’s been very aggressive and they appear to be getting all these big names to do it, pleasing their shareholders along the way. So, yeah, it’s quite fascinating, and you wonder how it all ends up. I wonder just what sort of eye-watering numbers have been put in front of you… To be fair to everyone that has approached us, no one’s actually mentioned a number yet, because I’ve always shut it down. I don’t mean to be rude, but I don’t care what the number is and I don’t want to know. It was also 10 years ago that Adele really broke through, with 21. Like Ed, she’s a British solo artist who absolutely smashed the US, and they seem to share a quite similar attitude to fame and success Has there ever been a sort of friendly rivalry, or perhaps a sense of kinship, between the two camps, or between you and Jonathan [Dickins, Adele’s manager]? There’s no rivalry, but – and I’d love to imagine they have the same conversation about us ¬– we’re always, like ‘When’s Adele’s record coming?’ We always considered it a moral No. 1 if we were No. 2 to Adele, because… because she’s Adele! It’s a bit like when Maisie [Peters, another Grumpy Old Management client, with her debut album, You Signed Up For This] was No. 2 to Kanye [with Donda] the other week; it’s Kanye, come on, we’re effectively No. 1! So, yeah, we’re always very curious about when her records are dropping and what she’s doing next, because they’re such big events. And this time round I presume she’ll be out pretty soon after us. 18

Grumpy Old Management client, Dylan

How long has the new record been planned, and what does that planning process look like these days in terms of who does what? Well there’s a song on there that he wrote the week after ÷ came out, so quite a while! The recording started in earnest, just going into the spring of lockdown, that’s when we went into Decoy in full hazmat suits. But in total it’s been three to four years in the making. There have been a lot of songs going backwards and forwards. In my office at home I’ve got all the various track listings, and from the first one to the final one, and there are only two songs that are still there. It’s been constantly evolving. It frustrates Ed a little bit, because he thinks it takes a little too long, but at the end of the day he always admits that we do get to the best record we could have.

Does anyone A&R Ed these days, or is he at a level where he’s left to it? It’s sort of a triumvirate: Ed Howard, myself and Ed. He does do a lot himself, and he does tend to go off and record half an album before the label know anything about it, but then we all get involved. He already knows what the next album is [after =] for instance. He’s already got a track-listing for it, and I will get that changed over the next 12 months [laughs]. Ed writes so many songs, and he wants to get them out, he doesn’t want them just sitting on his hard drive. Given that, how difficult will it be to stop him putting out an album next year, in the middle of the tour for this one? Well, this tour is going to span three-tofour years, and there will be another record

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within that cycle; that was always the plan. It’s more a question of stopping him putting another record out the week after this one. The material’s there and it won’t be another four year wait, I can promise you that. Do you both still believe in the album as the most important statement an artist can make? I definitely do. I think that’s maybe my age, and maybe it’s outdated, but it’s definitely something we always want to hang a tour and a promotional period around. Having said that, certainly next year we’ll be releasing a fair few songs that won’t be necessarily attached to this album or the next one. The industry changes, of course, and it’s now more about tracks for a lot of people. For us, as a general framing device, the album is still very valid. It’s still the album chart we want to look at. I never look at the single midweeks. I’m still obsessed with albums, they’re the tent poles of a career.

from Subtract to Equals. People have been sat alone in a dark room for most of last year, they don’t necessarily want someone to compound that.

it, but… [laughs]. I’d love it to get some good reviews, you want people to like it. But we won’t pore over every word of every review, no.

What does success look like for an Ed Sheeran album these days, and what metrics do you use to measure that success? Well, we always fantasise we’ll hit numbers like Divide’s, but I don’t necessarily think the market’s there in the same way as it was. So we don’t have a figure in our heads at all. We want to be in a position where the volume and the acceptance of the record is outweighing a lot of other people’s, and the success of the single is a good sign for that. Also, we’re going to be announcing a tour in a few weeks, and that will be perhaps a more interesting barometer for us.

What are the live plans? On the 17th (September) we’re going to be announcing a big old stadium tour across the UK and Europe. That will take us through to October next year. Then we’ll probably do Australia in early 2023, then North America, then Asia and South America. I think we’ll end up finishing in 2025. And is live the most important part of what you guys do these days, not just commercially, but in terms of where you look to set new benchmarks? Yeah, it is, and that goes back to how you define the success of a record; I think you have to define success across the entire cycle and live is a huge part of that. Obviously, last time out, we set ourselves an incredibly high benchmark, one that ourselves or anyone else may or may not be able to beat, who knows. It’s certainly the focus, it’s almost like we make the record so we can go and play it to the world.

“It’s almost like we make the record so we can go out and play it to the world.”

What can you tell us about the sound and style of the new album, co-writers, collabs etc? There are no collabs on this record. There may be on future single versions, like we did with the previous album, but not on the album itself. Johnny [McDaid] and Fred are the main co-producers and co-writers; there are a couple of Steve Mac tracks on there, David Hodges is on a couple. There’s a relatively small writing pool this time. Sound-wise, it’s an interesting one actually, it’s a lot more up tempo. This record was originally meant to be Subtract (-) rather than Equals (=). Ed had written a lot of downbeat acoustic ballads – which he’s quite good at! – but then back in spring/early summer last year, when it was all getting very bleak, it was like, ‘Do I want to release a depressing record in this climate?’ So it became slightly more celebratory. He’d become a father, so it was also a lot more sort of forward-thinking and uplifting than previously, and transformed

Do you guys still feel the pressure before an album release? Are there nerves even though most people on the outside would quite blithely say success is guaranteed? There’s always a mix of nerves and excitement, there has to be – we want to see what people make of it. And like I said about the single, we don’t take anything for granted at all. I think it would be horrible to be complacent. We’re giving birth to a new baby, so of course we want people to like it, and for there not to be any hiccups. Where do reviews and critical reaction fit in the Ed Sheeran camp’s psychological landscape these days? Do they matter, or do you exist above them? We kind of live above… [interrupts himself ] Well, we want to say we live above

Did you have any live plans that were scuppered by the pandemic, or were you always going to stay off the road until after this record? No, we were very lucky. Ed and I celebrated the 10 year anniversary of signing our contract, literally the week before lockdown. We went out and got very, very drunk, and he told me that he wanted to put his live plans back a year because he needed more time off. Eventually he confessed that he was actually going to have a baby, and that’s why he was putting everything back a year. It all worked in our favour; we didn’t have to cancel any plans, thank goodness, because it was horrific for people that did, or people that were already on the road. If it had happened a year earlier, in 2019, it would have been catastrophic for us. We were very fortunate. 19

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Was that a good night, celebrating the 10th anniversary of your first contract? It was. There’s a pub near the old Rocket office where we used to go when we first met, and where we decided I’d manage him, so we just went there and drank far too much Guinness. But our lives have obviously changed a little bit, because we then went to the pub that we own together [Bertie Blossoms in Notting Hill]. It was a fun day out. Why did you hire Gaby [Cawthorne] and what has her appointment meant for you and for Grumpy Old Management? Well, Gaby’s been with us since day one as well, as our international rep [at Warner]. She’s extremely tenacious, and laserfocused on the business side in terms of the marketing and the international set-up and DSP relationships. I was still resolutely by myself, ‘I don’t need anybody’, etc. But I think there was a turning point where someone looked at my Fitbit stats and I’d averaged 27 minutes sleep per night for the past three weeks. It was like, this has got to stop. Gaby became available and we just decided to take the plunge. It’s been amazing, she is second to none in terms of analysing markets, and having that level of strategic mind is great for us.

artist, Ed had been keen on her for a while, and he’d originally wanted her on Gingerbread [Records, Sheeran’s own label] when she first signed to Atlantic. Bobby [Havens], her manager, had previously worked with me at Rocket, he’d gone to another independent company, but his deal was coming to an end, so he then became an employee with us, which brought Maisie in, and then a record deal just made sense after that [Peters signed to Sheeran’s Gingerbread Records in the summer]. We’ve also signed a guy called Ewan Mainwood and a girl called Dylan, so it’s a strong little set-up that’s happened quite organically. What’s your proudest achievement in your time managing Ed? Breaking the touring record [Sheeran’s ÷

It’s always whatever the next thing we can do to tick off, whether that’s playing on the fucking moon or playing the biggest show ever. Ed always strives to be the first to do things. So, it’s not something that I can tell you now, but there will be something, because he wants to be first, he wants to break records. He wants to beat his own touring record for a start. What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned in this business during your career so far? Follow your heart, genuinely. If you feel something’s right, then go for it. If it doesn’t feel right, don’t. I live by that and it’s worked out okay. What’s the best thing about managing Ed Sheeran? [Pause] I should know this one shouldn’t I?! [laughs]. Honestly, it’s the best job in the world. I wake up every day and I don’t know what’s going to happen. Life is never dull.

“Someone looked at my Fitbit and I’d averaged 27 minutes sleep per night for three weeks.”

It’s a move that’s enabled Grumpy Old Management to take on more than one client, has that panned out as you planned, and how involved do you get with those other artists? Yeah, I try to as much as possible. I personally always believed I was going to be a one-artist manager, just because I didn’t think I’d be able to dedicate the time. But then there was the pandemic, obviously Ed’s plans had been shelved for a while, and we just thought we should do something else. We got introduced to Deleon [Blake], who manages Griff, and they were looking to partner up. I was really impressed with him, so we did a deal to bring his company into ours as a joint venture. And then Maisie [Peters] is a fantastic

tour was the highest-grossing of all time, beating the record held by U2 since 2011], because I was always a massive U2 fan growing up, and I thought nothing was ever going to touch that. To beat them, that’s the thing that really will stand the test of time. And it’s always been Ed’s strong point, even before we got a deal: fuck the record, just come and see him and tell me that you don’t think he’s amazing. For that to be verified at such a high level is great. What’s been your toughest moment over the last 10 years or so? There’s not been any one particularly tough time, but I think it’s always tough balancing life and work, and I don’t really do that particularly well. Is there a biggest remaining ambition for you two to tick off?

What’s the worst/most frustrating thing about managing Ed Sheeran? Ed Sheeran [laughs].

And having started by looking back 10 years, can you end by projecting forward 10 years? I think I can, yeah. And I think we will be in Phase 2, because whatever happens our arrangements will have changed recordings-wise. The mathematics period will have come to an end, with symbols [for each album], that’s for sure, because otherwise we’ll start getting into Pi and other things that we don’t understand. He’ll be in his mid-thirties, which is dreadful, because I was in my midthirties when I met him, that’s how terrible that is. The focus will probably be more on records, because he’ll have a young family by then. So there might be a more glacial attitude to his career, but he will still be going strong, no doubt about that. n 21

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‘He isn’t grumpy at all!’ When Gaby Cawthorne decided the time was right to leave Warner Music a few years ago, Stuart Camp knew she was too valuable an asset to lose. So he asked her to join his Grumpy Old Management, not only to retain her input into to Ed Sheeran’s career, but also to expand his company’s roster from one global superstar to one global superstar plus, maybe, a handful in waiting… As VP of International at Warner Music UK, Gaby Cawthorne played an un-showy but absolutely vital role in helping make Ed Sheeran a truly global superstar [one of her first jobs: explaining that The A Team was a very sad story about a drug addict, and nothing to do with a TV show about a team of flamboyant mercenaries]. Her hard work and smart moves won her the respect of Sheeran and his manager, Stuart Camp, whilst a crazy shared schedule helped forge more personal bonds. So, when, in 2018, Cawthorne began thinking of moving on, Camp made sure she didn’t move far. He brought her in as General Manager at his Grumpy Old Management, with the remit of not just continuing to work with Sheeran, but also expanding Grumpy’s remit and roster – something she has subsequently done to the tune of three additional managers and four new clients. What do you remember of first meeting Ed and Stuart? I became aware of Ed pretty much on top of him signing. I saw he was joining the roster, put my hand up for it and got stuck in very quickly. He was also identified as a priority by Max [Lousada], and I was tasked with getting the world interested. I remember Ed back then as superambitious, but also super-curious. He was really keen to understand what was needed, why it was needed, how to be most effective – he was interested in everything. He was actually a brilliant collaborator for us as a label. If you asked him to jump between seven different countries in a week, he just said yes.

With Stuart, his own label experience was still pretty fresh, so he understood all of the asks, and he understood the context of what we were trying to achieve. He always sees the merit in having good people around him, and he understands that if they’re great at what they do, then allow them to have their voice and to execute. He’s very generous and gracious about never trying to take credit for anyone else’s work, and empowering people he knows are good at what they do. He also knows that’s actually only going to best serve him and Ed in the long run anyway.

Did the scale of success, particularly international success, surprise you? It was an interesting one, because Ed wasn’t conforming to the standard of the global superstar, sonically or visually, and it did take a minute or two for people to just pause and identify what was happening. It was almost a case of harnessing the fans to lead the way in that sense. Because there would often be comparisons to people like Damien Rice, or other brilliant singer/ songwriters, but that didn’t necessarily feel true to this very young guy with a guitar who had all these screaming teen girls at his gigs.

Grumpy Old Management now works with artists such as Maisie Peters

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He would say to me, ‘Dude, I’ve got all of these One Direction fans, this is my fan base.’ It was very much a pop audience that was engaging with him. Why do you think you guys bonded to such a level? Well, they [Sheeran and Camp] might beg to differ, but I don’t think we’re actually very different personalities. We’re all quite straight-talking with each other, and we’re all ambitious, but in a deeply passionate way; we fight for a common cause. And we’ll put all of our hours into it. Because as much as I might have tasked Ed with doing ludicrous things around the world, I was on the plane with him, at the airport at 4:30am, and working through until 2:00am. I was in the thick of it, not just sending someone a schedule and telling them to get on with it. When and why did the idea of making the move onto the management team come up? I was already thinking of moving on because, in my mind, I’d done as much as I could possibly do within my position; I was at least 10 years into it. I was very fortunate to work across an incredible array of artists [at Warner], but I think when you do anything for such a period of time, in what is quite a silent position in any major corporation, there’s only so many times that you feel that you can do something new. So I was looking for something where I could still utilise my experience, but also broaden out my own skill set, to still feel like I was learning new stuff. I’m inquisitive, I like to feel like I’m able to chase and create new opportunities. And because Stu, Ed and I work so closely together, they read me very easily. They know me, sadly (!), better than most. So, I could never be dishonest with them about my plans or what I was thinking. And it correlated with a time where Stu was looking to potentially build something of his own in terms of management.

At the same time, because of the way Ed and I work together, I think he was keen for me to still have a voice in his career moving forward. So it was a pretty easy and transparent conversation. I think the label also saw the merit in it, in so much as they weren’t losing me completely; I’d still be a guiding hand. What were the details of the role you discussed with Stuart at that time? Well I was always going to hold that international element, to some degree. My knowledge of Ed goes back to the beginning, so that level of experience and insight, not just on him but on how his audience moves and markets have evolved, it’d be foolish for me to just stop doing that. Plus, of course, I can call pretty much any territory up, because there are so many long-standing relationships within the label. And was part of the role to help expand the client roster whilst allowing Stu to continue to focus almost completely on Ed? The bottom line is that he is Ed’s manager; that is his first and foremost role and will remain so forever. It was only really as time went on and we started to kind of get a rhythm flowing, and seeing what opportunities would arise. It stemmed a little bit, for me, from the fact that I’ve always enjoyed developing artists. As much as I love to help and to contribute to Ed getting his big wins, there’s still so much enjoyment to be had from helping development artists get those very first wins. Ultimately, and this is a conversation Stu and I had, we do have a quite unique combination of experience and knowledge under our belts. And as much as Ed will always be first and foremost, especially for Stu, why would we not try and help other artists and managers, and pass on some of that knowledge and experience? Very few artists get to this scale and very

few managers get to go through what Stuart’s been through; why keep that to ourselves? It’s an opportunity to really start developing managers as well as artists. And how Ed’s schedule was evolving, finishing a tour and taking a bit of time out, there was some time for us, especially me, to seek out other opportunities to bring into Grumpy, and from last year we’ve been very proactive about it. Can you talk a little bit about what’s happened in terms of other artist clients and managers at Grumpy? In terms of the structure, obviously Stuart owns the company, and Stuart is primarily Ed Sheeran’s manager, and he can’t have time taken away from that. So, a lot of the new areas of the business, whilst Stuart is always there for all of us, they kind of fall under me. I oversee what we’re trying to develop on the new management side. And, with that, in the last year, we’ve started working with Bobby Havens, who manages Maisie Peters; Deleon Blake, who works with Griff; and Andy Wells who has Dylan and Ewan Mainwood. There’s still scope for [more]; we’re in all kind of conversations about other acts. But they’re the ones who are formally part of our roster right now. They all approached us with what they are looking for, from various backgrounds, and I think they understood that what Stuart and I as a package could bring, especially in a day and age where, let’s be honest, the expectation is for artists is to have so much development under their belt before they can get a deal. So they were looking for not just the knowledge and experience, but the network and an infrastructure to help get artists into a place from where they can start escalating their careers. At the same time, all of the managers that are now part of Grumpy, they are their artists’ managers. I will never introduce myself as those artists’ manager

and Stuart would never introduce himself as those artists’ manager. Their manager is their manager, but they have bought into the team and the infrastructure. There’s no threat to anyone’s position, there is just a common cause. I’m actually very proud of the fact we’ve done a great job instilling a team mentality. And every manager is, from what I understand, super proud to be part of something where their artists have massively excelled in the time that they have been with us. You mentioned some ongoing conversations, is there a ceiling on the size of management company Grumpy might become? We’re always going to be relatively boutique, in the sense that I, especially, don’t want us to be in a place where we can’t be proactively involved in every artist that is on the roster. We want every artist to have a completely bespoke strategy and for them to buy into that, and for us to execute that, we have to have a voice in that conversation consistently. So, we’ll maybe take on one or two, because I do like to be very proactive. I don’t want to be sent a report once a week and give a top line opinion. I want to be accountable With Griff, for example, when we first met last summer, one of the key things we discussed with her and Deleon was what our strategy would be over three years. And for this last year we’ve actually already stuck pretty closely to what that timeframe was. If we are going to proclaim to an artist and a manager, this is how we see the long game for you, this is the big picture, this is we want to build around you on a global level, then, yeah, I’m going to be accountable for that. Is there a type of artist that you look to sign, not in terms of genre, but in terms of where they are in their

career and development? Absolutely. We could probably take on an established act, but in terms of really propelling an artist forward, I think if we can try and really build a solid foundation for them in these first few years, a lot of what will happen further down the line should be somewhat steered by the success that we’ve initially generated. I worry sometimes, with [the prospect of managing] some established acts, that you have to undo some of the work that has been done in the past, which can be more challenging than starting from scratch. Also, when you’re working with someone brand new, who’s got a huge appetite to achieve, with a sometimes ludicrous level of ambition, that drive

“There’s so much enjoyment to be had from getting artists their first big wins.” is pretty special. Arguably it’s the most important part… obviously talent is hugely important, but that drive is, I would say, just as important, and that often comes with brand new acts. It’s the same with managers. The managers that we work with aren’t new to the game, but they are developing their skill sets, and one of the reasons that they wanted to join Grumpy is because then we could help arm them and help them to develop global careers. We’re certainly not siloed in our thinking in terms of genre, but in terms of ambition we want to work with artists where we see real commercial appeal, across the recorded side and on the touring side. What have you found to be the biggest differences in terms of your working pattern at Grumpy versus your time at Warner? It’s interesting, because I thought it

was going to be really quite vastly different. But then, and I guess this goes back to you reminding me of the early days of Ed, I was never very good at being linear in my approach to the job. I always had opinions across the board – A&R would hear my opinion on single choices, Marketing would hear my opinion on timelines and assets. So, in many ways, especially because I was so travelling so much back then – which meant I had so much face time with the artists – bizarrely, my position hasn’t massively shifted other than it incorporates wider elements of a career. I am much more involved in conversations with live agents, for example, and the whole label team, and around any other kind of creative projects that any artist wants to do. And what about your relationships with Ed and Stuart? Have they changed now you’re part of the team within the team? No, I don’t think it has. I think because we were pretty tight while I was in the label, and since I’ve transitioned across, that hasn’t shifted. Life’s shifted, you know, we’ve grown older, we’ve got different priorities. But actually, in terms of when we go back into campaign mode, which we are now, it’s like we’re just wearing the same old pair of shoes. You joined a company called Grumpy Old Management, which isn’t exactly a welcome mat for new employees. Just how grumpy has Stuart turned out to be close up? Oh he isn’t grumpy at all! He’ll often claim it’s me that’s the grumpy one in Grumpy Old Management! I think it stems from jokey conversations between him and Ed years ago. And don’t get me wrong, he can do a good impression of grumpy now and again, but the core of him really enjoys what we’re all doing; he’s up for the ride – he just doesn’t want everyone to know.

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You mentioned you guys are back in campaign mode at the moment. Give us an idea of what that looks like and what does that feel like on a day-to-day basis, because a new Ed Sheeran record is a bloody big deal… It is, but it’s all done by design. It’s not like we’re going into this blindly. We developed the strategy at the top end of the year. We very deliberately wanted Bad Habits to come out when it did, because it’s a big pop song, and we understood that we would be entering the market cold, so we wanted to allow ourselves a minute to really reintroduce ourselves to the market and reawaken our fanbase before we needed to start accelerating towards an album. We didn’t want a one-single strategy; we wanted to give ourselves time to breathe. And thankfully that’s proven effective because, by and

Like Stuart Camp, Gaby Cawthorne has worked with Ed Sheeran (pictured here in 2012) from the outset of his career

Photo: Featureflash / Shutterstock

How do you guys complement each other? I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that we have known each other for so long, and neither of us are trying to vie for a central position. At the end of the day, it is Stuart’s company and Stuart is Ed Sheeran’s manager. We do think very similarly, and he also appreciates that I’m really quite a geek when it comes to detailed data, and trying to find ways of working that people haven’t yet executed effectively. He understands that if I do come up with ideas, and if I do feel quite strongly and passionately about shifting our strategy, he hears me completely. There’s a deep level of trust, so that we can be super honest with each other about what it is we’re looking to achieve and how we may need to shift things in order to achieve them. There’s a huge level of transparency as well; I’m a straight talker. Stuart never doubts anything that I say, because I always give immediate context if required.

large, we’ve been number one in most major markets – No. 2 in America, but that will hopefully shift soon. And it feels like we are fully reawakened, we’ve re-introduced ourselves and we’ve got a really strong footing so that, [with the] next single, we will massively amplify the launch and be in a really strong position when we go into the album mode. And in terms of what does that feel like, it’s hectic, because we do have many key players. But, again, it’s brilliant, because Ed is very vocal and proactive. He has an opinion across the board. He’s not just kicking back, expecting us to do the heavy lifting. Finally, what does success look like for the three of you – and between the three of you who’s most interested in the numbers? I would say Stuart is probably the least interested. Not because he’s not interested, but because I am just the biggest geek. Ed knows the numbers, but always wants context. For him,

it’s always going to be about the fans, and he is super keen to make sure that all the fans that have been invested from the beginning are being super-served, and then how to reach more people. It’s definitely Ed and I who get the most excited by numbers. In terms of what success looks like, it would be daft in this climate to try and quantify it against one hard number. The way markets around the world have shifted and are shifting makes that not just impossible, but not helpful. So many varying milestones are being proclaimed nowadays as a type of ‘success’. That said, we’re always going to judge ourselves against what the rest of the market’s doing. So we do look at chart positions, and it’s about what our position is within that context and how we can navigate ourselves to get as high as possible for as long as possible. We’re not ignoring the traditional metrics by any stretch, but it would be daft to say we want to reach X number of album sales. The market just doesn’t work like that anymore. n

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Having joined Sony from Warner nine years ago, Stacey Tang is now Executive Vice President of RCA. She is also, hypothetically, Boss Of The Entire Business for a few pages. Here are the five changes she’s introducing with immediate effect…

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tacey Tang takes the same approach to promotions as she does to birthdays – and not in the milestones and backslapping sense that you might think. Instead, she sees both as just another day, or another step: acknowledged and glad to have got this far, yes; fussed over and used as markers of major change, no. So there probably wasn’t a big party this summer when she was upped to the position of Executive Vice President at RCA UK, reporting directly to the Sony label’s President, David Dollimore. She says: “You’re not a year older on your birthday, you’re a day older, right? Promotions are the same. The music industry changes so rapidly, and the last 18 months has really hastened the speed of change, so my role is always changing, which is great and as it should be. That’s what keeps it motivating and fun and interesting. “I came to RCA three years ago this month, and David [Dollimore] had very fresh ideas about what he wanted to do with the label, centred around a drive to develop more of a domestic roster whilst continuing to deliver a world-class service for all of our international artists. That’s what we’ve focused on and achieved.” In the last 12 months on RCA, Bring Me The Horizon scored their second No. 1 album [Post Human: Survival Horror], whilst Little Mix reached No. 2 with Confetti and won the BRIT Award for Best British Group, but Tang is keen to define success more broadly. “I think the goal always has to be that you leave a place in a better position than when you joined – and that means commercially, of course, we’re running a business, but also in terms of what we do culturally, and how we operate internally. “It goes back to talking about the promotion; it’s not about pulling the ladder up and handing down directives, it’s about: Who are we employing, are we listening to those people, and are we growing and developing people who are going to continue to evolve this label and this industry?” Tang explains that she assembled her

five-point plan below “based on day-to-day conversations with friends and colleagues at Sony and around the industry, shared experiences”. It’s an approach that she hopes has delivered a Manifesto that is inclusive, positive and practical, covering everything from what success looks like to redefining the role of record labels…

1. Measuring Success Should Be About More Than Charts

One of the things I feel most strongly about is how we measure success, and I don’t know that charts are the right vehicle. They definitely shouldn’t be the only metric . Every platform has a different chart, each platform measures different things at different scales. So what are we meant to

we use to measure success, need to reflect that whilst also celebrating successes. Developing an artist takes the same amount of time now as it’s always done, but the growth happens in public, using the same measures for artists at wildly different stages of their careers. I think that’s affecting our ability as an industry to export UK talent in the way that we have previously. We’re not allowing artists [enough] time to become excellent and stand up against polished international acts. The UK has always had a history of delivering internationally and we aren’t doing that to the same degree right now. The charts have evolved to take on airplay, video views, streaming etc., but I’m not sure they’ve evolved enough to represent a much wider and deeper market. We spend a lot of time talking to artists about what their ambitions and goals are, and each one has a different definition of success, whereas maybe previously there was a more uniform view of what that meant. Maybe it’s revenue-based – that’s how other industries would typically measure – although I wouldn’t want that to take away the passion for what we do and solely number-crunch. If we went out onto the street and asked anyone who was No. 1 at the moment, a few people might guess Ed [Sheeran whose career Tang helped kick-start at Atlantic] right now because he’s such a huge star. But they’d only be right at the moment because of timing; generally I don’t think the vast majority of people would know. It’s important to say this isn’t an antichart point. The charts are a great thing to have, and the whoops and hollers that go round this office when we get a No. 1 are wonderful. For some artists, [hitting No.1 on the chart] is what they want to do, and this isn’t to detract from that as an ambition, or undo the importance of the charts. I just feel we need a better way of measuring success across the industry, at different stages of careers, and take into account all aspects of connecting with fans and the changing habits in consumption.

“If we went out onto the street and asked anyone who was No.1, I don’t think the vast majority of people would know.” be looking at to measure? These aren’t likefor-like comparisons; artists have different trajectories. Also, if Billboard or, in our case, the OCC, are the only measures of success, how do we allow artist development to happen? Because we need time for that. If 60,000 tracks are being uploaded to Spotify every day, why are they all going to be measured in the same way? We have to choose where to focus based on each individual campaign. Fans are the ultimate measure of success, but every fan is different, from artist to artist, from genre to genre. A fan who buys a ticket for a gig is very different to a fan who streams something out of curiosity. This is a really complex business, everything is compared yet incomparable at the same time. And the charts, or whatever

Little Mix

2. Continue To Harness The Power Of Music For Protest And Change

Music shapes culture, it moves people and it connects communities. We saw that throughout the pandemic with support groups forming and consumption reflecting mood and feeling, whether that be driven by politics or weather. We can see what happened to tracks by Childish Gambino and Kendrick Lamar for instance, around the Black Lives Matter movement, Blackout Tuesday and The Show Must Be Paused initiative. And then go back to Rage Against The Machine, Public Enemy, Bob Dylan, music’s always been used as a form of protest. Going back to my first point, if we’re just chasing charts the whole time, I don’t 30

know that we’ll necessarily be looking at those [non-chart] songs right now or giving them profiling or space to develop and grow. We, as labels, invest in artists and acts that are going to shape history and reflect moments and moods through their stories, and that’s a really, really important social aspect to be aware of. There might be some things that I don’t see or feel because they’ve not been my experience. And there will be other instances where people I work with won’t share my experience, but an artist may touch on something I can relate to. The important thing is to have all of those voices represented, heard and promoted. If you think of how many tens of millions of pounds we invest in marketing, creating visuals and imagery to support music and lyrics, then you have to conclude that what

we get behind matters, it has a lot of sway. It helps define the zeitgeist. Listen, sometimes I can’t remember if I locked the front door after I leave the house in the morning, but I can remember lyrics to songs from the eighties if they’re on the radio in the car on the way in. Music has the power to become embedded, so it’s important there is music that represents a range of stories and views, and we should be mindful of that balance when we look at what we sign. I’ve already mentioned Kendrick, and I’ve mentioned Childish Gambino, and what Dave and Stormzy do in the UK is equally galvanising. Is the constructive work Stormzy has done supporting scholarships at Cambridge reflected in the majority of stories we sell? Do we promote the ideas of successful young businessmen outside of lazy stereotypes? Maybe imagery

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and the music that we work with only tells one story? Maybe there should be more black male singer/songwriters? Are we investing across the board and helping tell the stories that show the real breadth of experience in the country that we live in? For example, through our Sony Music Social Justice Fund we have partnered with [classical composer and pianist] Alexis Ffrench to fund two scholarships for black students at the Royal Academy of Music. We need more initiatives like that, to support a broader range of talent, tell those stories and disrupt typecasts.

3. Evolve Industry Leadership For The Modern Workforce

At Sony we have worked closely with MIND as a corporate group and at artist campaign level. There are training and policies geared towards supporting everybody that we work with. And we’ve made a point of extending those services and support to artists and managers, because they’re part of our community and peer group; that’s long overdue. The world has evolved, our workforce has evolved, so leadership, and the style of leadership, has to mirror those changes. The days of power suits and dictating respect are gone. I think power was historically often wielded in a dictatorial style; now I think it’s something that should radiate outwards,

execs need different things at different stages of their careers. That should be addressed with smart management on a one-by-one basis. One huge element we need to address as a nation is parental leave, which traditionally has always fallen to women to take. In 2015 Shared Parental Leave was introduced to the UK, but I think only 2% of eligible couples took it up then; it’s probably 3-4% now. I would like to see equal parental leave introduced more widely, as we are doing at Sony [where parents of any gender qualify for 52 weeks leave]. A Harvard Business Review article in 2012 mentioned fathers with even short work absences due to family obligations were recommended for fewer awards and received lower performance ratings, and that was mainly just taking paternity leave for two weeks. That’s terrible for fathers who want to spend time bonding with their young families. At Sony we have a 50/50 gender staff split, and our senior management is probably 40% female. If we want to maintain and grow that, we have to look to provide equal opportunity and take an even-handed approach to parental leave – and I’m pleased that we are now doing that. The assumption that women are the primary care-givers, and want to take a year off, can feel like it might disrupt career paths or force execs to make decisions for financial reasons – and it gives men less time to bond with their children, and many of them want to do that. Lockdown has changed a lot of our priority lists and we need to be brave enough to let those priorities shape our working lives now. I’ve had conversations with colleagues who have been apprehensive about returning after extended absences or who want to reassure me that they are committed to their work as well as their families. Of course they are! We all know that careers in our industry are the antithesis of nine-to-five work, so we have to be flexible anyway; flexibility just makes sense in an industry that doesn’t fit into traditional parameters.

“If we want to tell different stories, we need different people to find and relate to those stories.”

If we want to tell different stories effectively, we need different people who find and relate to those stories, divergent executives leading the industry and a broader mix of professionals shaping music history. I’ve mentioned some artists in that respect, but to find and sign those different artists, to understand their experiences and have empathy with their message and their mission, requires different leadership. That’s not just topdown leadership. There is power in numbers and united voices. We deal in emotions, how someone felt when they wrote a song, how someone feels when they perform a song, how fans feel when they listen to a song, watch a video, leave a show. We need to be more mindful of emotion and empathy in our everyday lives. It’s about a different style of leadership – how we listen to each other, for instance. We’re back in the office now, and I love it, I love how we gesticulate wildly and chat loudly, talking over and with one another. But I also hope we keep some of that Zoom/ Teams etiquette, where maybe time and voice share was more evenly distributed. Some time is needed for reflection and generating ideas, daydreaming big stuff as opposed to running at maximum capacity all of the time.

with ideas and strategies being shaped by input from everyone. That makes for a stronger culture and team. I believe a large part of shaping this approach and thinking is through mentorship. It’s easy to slip into common tropes of competition or battle, but we have to look after our people and they’ll look after us. People are our business, from artists to [staff in the] office and to fan bases. I think a little more humanity and care across all of our leadership efforts will make for a wildly different industry.

4. Keep Pushing The Boundaries Of Flexible Working

We’re all working more flexibly now, which is great. The less rigid we are, the less people will be excluded and the stronger an industry we become. Equity for diverse teams means different

But we have to make equal or shared parental leave central to creating a level playing field, not only in the workplace but in terms of quality family time as well.

Bring Me The Horizon’s Oli Sykes performs at All Points East in 2019

The industry is adapting, it’s changing, and it’s important that art and music keeps leading technology – and that technology isn’t simply defining art and music. We have seen a massive explosion in tech solutions to issues caused by the pandemic and huge engagement on platforms – whether that’s live-streamed gigs, virtual events in Minecraft or Roblox, NFT’s and the entry of blockchain-based streaming services, or TikTok which is always a conversation in meetings now. Artists and managers are talking to us the whole time about their campaigns – they’re smart business people which is why we are in business with them in the first place. We often remind new artists,you’re the CEO now, we work for you – and they need to look at what they need to add to their business to grow it and make it more successful through us. If [an artist has] a bigger management company, with more bandwidth and a greater range of skills internally, then what they require from a record company will be different to an individual who is relatively new to the game or has a smaller support team by choice. What a record company is and what a record company does has to be different for every artist and manager. It differs from campaign to campaign, and between us we have to make the decision as to what will serve and deliver their vision best. We have to be more flexible about what we invest in and how we invest, because we literally do not stop spending money from the moment we sign an artist. We have to be more complex and more specialist and we need a broader range of skillsets than ever before, because we get involved with artists at very different stages of their careers. 32

Photo: Tom Rose / Shutterstock

5. Redefine The Role Of A Record Label

It will always be a priority to break new artists, but look at the volume of catalogue streams, and the best-selling artist albums of the year. They shouldn’t be anniversaryonly campaigns. We talk so much to artists at the beginning of their careers and we have to continue those conversations, in depth, being transparent about what they have access to and what services we can support them with. We need to constantly go back to artists and their teams and explain, ‘This is what you have access to within Sony,’ whether we’re talking about podcasting, merch, live plans or partnerships with platforms and services, whatever it might be – anything that helps them be the best broadcasters

they can be to their fans and grow that pool which will support them in long-term career goals. As labels and businesses within Sony we’re encouraged to be collaborative. We learn from each other and share hypotheses, approaches and data. Our artists and managers won’t have all that information across so many case studies, so we share that with them and they find it useful. It’s not for us to tell an artist what to do, because we don’t have to publicly stand behind their work. They do that, and they do it in front of their fans. So we have to understand what their truth is and where they want to go, and then do as much as they need and as much as we can to help them. n

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KEY SONGS IN THE LIFE OF…

Trenton Harrison-Lewis The manager of pioneering artists, from Goldie to Giggs, now also part of the Warner UK senior management team, picks five tracks to represent the high points and most important relationships from more than three decades of breaking artists and storming the charts… 34

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“Y

ou don’t know how painful it’s been”, says Trenton HarrisonLewis, reflecting not only just what a small number five is, but also an incredible life and career in music. He is the sort of exec that could probably pick five tracks from the last month that have yet again fired up his passion for artists and for this business. Instead we’re asking for five that cover his 30+ years in management and more, which, as he says, with a smile, “is pretty nuts”. His breakthrough came as manager of pioneering UK female hip-hop duo, The Wee Papa Girl Rappers. Their success attracted the attention of Russell Simmons, and by the end of the eighties Harrison-Lewis was European MD of Rush Management, part of the Def Jam empire. There, he was responsible for the outside-North America activity of acts such as Public Enemy, Run DMC and Beastie Boys. After nearly a decade with Rush, Harrison-Lewis went solo and worked with Goldie, Grooverider and others, before a stint at Metropolis where, working with Raye Cosbert, he was part of the team behind Amy Winehouse and others. More recently Harrison-Lewis has managed and co-managed an impressive array of young UK artists, most notably Giggs and Ghetts, helping to turn underground buzz into mainstream success – both have had No. 2 albums in the UK. Last year he joined Warner Music UK as SVP, Artist & Label Development for

ADA and WMUK, whilst retaining his independent management interests in a roster which also includes Jesse James Solomon, Sneakbo, Snow, Diana Drill, DJ Target, and producers TK, Ten Billion Dreams and Jester. If he is irked by being restricted to just five songs on a playlist, you wonder how frustrated he must be by just 24 hours in a day. Whatever schedule-straining demands it has brought, however, Harrison-Lewis doesn’t regret his Warner move: “It’s

straight away, but there’s also some A&R and expertise from the frontline labels. “I’ve been able to do deals where all parts of the company are pushing forward together, and the artists themselves get the best of both worlds. It’s good, it’s a work in progress.” So far, he has signed Central Cee, VG and Iceè TGM, while helping establish a partnership between Atlantic Records and Latin music label Candela Records. Fast forward a few years, and one of these new artists and/or deals might have recorded something significant and successful enough to enter Harrison-Lewis’s thinking should MBUK be cruel enough to ask him to repeat the Key Songs challenge. For now though, he says, “It’s all about records that played a part in my career, in my learning – records that were milestones for me and moved me in different directions. The ones that made the final cut are ones I ended up investing years of my life in the situations they sprang from...”

“I’ve been able to do deals where the artists get the best of both worlds.” been really good. I had to think about it quite a bit, because it was sort of poacher becoming gamekeeper. But it’s been a nice and easy way into the system, because I was joining up with a team I already had a very good relationship with over many years. “Warner is A&R-led, they pick up artists very early and are big into development, which suits me completely as that’s what I do as a manager. I’ve been doing these kind of fusion deals, involving the frontline labels and ADA, because a lot of the artists now want to come independently, so that they have a lot more control over what they do and how they do it. “ADA has a fantastic team that kicks in

1. The Wee Papa Girl Rappers, Wee Rule (1988) The Wee Papa Girl Rappers was the first act I ever managed; I must have started in 1987. I was involved with a sound system in West London called Rap Attack. We used to play raves and warehouse parties etc. There were two girls who used to get on the mic and hype the crowd up, and that 35

was Sandra (Total S) and Samantha (TY Timmie). They had a little deal, they were signed for a pound, I remember, to Jive, by a guy called Roddy McKenna [who would later sign The Stone Roses]. They put out Faith, a George Michael cover. Then, when I came on board, we put out a record called Wee Rule, which eventually went to No. 6. My best friend back then, and still a great friend now, Danny D [as D Mob], had a record, We Call It Acieed, that was No. 3 at the same time, so we were loving it! Wee Rule was a big old record, at a time when you could sell a lot of records. It was my way into the business, and it segued me into my next situation. 2. Public Enemy, Bring The Noise (1988) I got a call from a guy called Lyor Cohen, who was then running Rush Management for [Def Jam co-founder] Russell Simmons. He liked the [Wee Rule] record, he liked the girls, and he wanted to co-manage them with me. I said yes, because I wanted them to get into America. After about four weeks of comanaging, Russell rang me up and asked me to open a Rush office in the UK. They sent me £10k, said get some office space and get going. That’s how my Rush Management situation started. At one point they had 37 acts – Public Enemy, De La Soul, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Big Daddy Kane, an incredible line-up. I became the manager for all those acts outside of America. And that is why choice number two is Public Enemy, Bring The Noise, a real landmark record. They were fantastic to work with. Chuck D is amazing, I still talk to Flavor, Norman [Rogers, Terminator X] was fantastic. Chuck’s a genius, he could talk to a politician or Tim Westwood – and probably make more sense than either of them!

This track in particular was just so exciting. There were others, but whenever they were over on tour, I used to go and watch them play this track every night, no matter what I was doing. Flavor would be up on the speaker stacks, it was always amazing. I went all over the world with them, and it was just a great, great time. 3. Technotronic, Pump Up The Jam (1989) While I was looking after the Wee Papas, I also looked after a young kid from Cardiff called MC Eric. One day I got a call from Swanyard [studios]; they said there was a group being put together and did I have any rappers. He went to audition and the next day he’s in Technotronic. Two days later, he goes to make the video [for Pump Up The Jam], comes back and tells me he’s met the girl who wrote the song, but she’s not in the video. I told him to bring her to the office. This young girl turned up, Ya Kid K, she told me she’d written the song, with Jo Bogaert, but they never put her in the video, they had this beautiful model called Felly fronting it.

we did Saturday Night Live, it was crazy. It changed their lives and my life. When something takes off like that, it’s enjoyable but very challenging. Ya Kid K did that record in 15 minutes because she was trying to get some studio time for her own rap crew. All of a sudden it’s a No. 1 record around the world. 4. Goldie, Timeless (1995) I was driving in Camden one day and I saw Goldie walking down the street. I stopped, we had a chat, we went to his flat, he played me some stuff he’d been working on and we just started working together. The first project he wanted to do was this record called Timeless. He was working with a guy called Rob Playford, and they made the album in Rob’s kitchen, in Stevenage. It was crazy, because from 10 to five, the guy next door was at work, so they could make as much noise as they wanted, but from five o’clock onwards they had to put the headphones on to carry on doing what they were doing. At some point, of course, I asked him if he had a single. He said, ‘Yeah, I’ve got a single, it’s 21 minutes long’ [the opening/ title track]. [Laughs] I was like, ‘What do you mean it’s 21 minutes long, are you crazy?!’ So, yeah, I had to take the DAT out and play this 21-minute track to A&Rs at publishers and record companies. To be fair, when you hear Timeless in that form, it takes you on a journey, and nobody said anything or tried to stop it. Eventually I signed it to Pete Tong at London [Timeless came out on Tong’s FFRR label and reached No. 7 in the UK album charts]. At that time, drum and bass was doing its thing, but it was split along different lines, and then along came this guy and he just takes it somewhere incredible. The people that came out of the woodwork when the album was released was crazy. Madonna wanted him to produce her, he worked with David Bowie. It was just a ground-breaking record, it

“I called up Lyor, told him the story and he said, You need to go and change that around.”

I called up Lyor, told him the story, and he said, ‘You need to go in there and change that around.’ Anyway, the next day I turned up to the video shoot and told them Ya Kid K was going to be in it. Big uproar, people flying in from New York, but I managed to get it turned around and that was the start of me and Technotronic. We sold about 14 million albums around the world. We did the Blonde Ambition tour with Madonna, we opened for Sting in Brazil, we did Arsenio Hall,

PLAYLIST

really opened up that music and took it to another level. As for what he was like to work with... are you aware of the phrase ‘herding cats’? But this was just one guy! He was honestly just so creative, and not just with music, with everything – from painting to making jewellery. I’ve never worked with anyone like him before or since. 5. Giggs, Whippin’ Excursion (2016) We got introduced to Giggs through XL, the label he was on at the time, myself and Raye Cosbert over at Metropolis. We were asked if we’d like to take a meeting because he was looking for management. I’d heard of him of course, and I really liked his music, but when we met I was just intrigued by him, and by his drive for what he wanted to do. So we got involved, maybe halfway through his last album with XL. And then after we’d parted ways with them, [comanager Michael] Buck [Maris] and I took the new ideas round to various labels and most of them said they thought that it was a bit old school, and that maybe he was done and dusted.

I decided we’d go independent. The album [Landlord, No. 2] came out in 2016 and less than a year later all the labels that said he was finished came to a sold-out Hammersmith Apollo and watched him bring the house down – this unsigned artist. It was fine, we were happy to do it ourselves and, as a manager, I don’t do the auction thing. I don’t shop my artists about. We know what we’re worth, we know what we need to do the job properly, and, yeah, I also realise it’s an advance that has to be earned back before you get another cheque; I’ve been doing this a while now. And we know we can make our own money if we put the hard work in, no problem. I do deals by going to see people I’ve known for many years, at whatever level they are at, people I trust and who trust me, that’s how I cut deals. I don’t want to see 100 people and compare cheques. There are so many deals we’ve done that have been far from the most money, but we have gone for the most commitment, the team that will be working the record and the best relationship. That’s all we need. With Giggs, we always had the belief in him and the music. With this record in particular, Whippin’ Excursion,

it was just crazy, and it was also not the obvious choice; most people would have chosen Lock Doh [as the lead single] but that’s the beauty of what he does, along with Buck, the credibility and his integrity always comes first above everything alongside the music. Giggs is not a guy to work with producers or other artists based on brand or fame; he’s 100% music. As long as he feels it, and believes in the music, names don’t come into it. People sometimes ring me up and ask me to introduce them to Giggs. If I bought something like that to him he’d ask me what the hell I was doing! I tell them to reach out to him on his DMs, build a relationship. Anybody you see on Giggs’ album as a feature, or anybody he works with, he has a proper relationship with them. He’s recording as we speak. He was in the States, he came back to play Wireless, and headline Strawberries & Creem in Cambridge, then he went back to the US to do some more recording. He wasn’t able to go to America for 10 years, and now he’s able to travel freely around the world. He’s working on the new album and it’ll be out when it’s ready; that’s how he rolls. n 37

Numbers

you need to know The third quarter of 2021 was a historic one for the global music rights business – not least thanks to Universal Music Group’s giant debut on the Amsterdam stock exchange. For the UK, specifically, it saw the government’s gaze thrust upon the industry, while further afield we saw some major statistical announcements from digital giants. Here are a few key numbers it’s worth remembering...

ANALYSIS

$54 billion:

Universal sets the stock market alight In April 2021, Goldman Sachs released what appeared to be a rather optimistic report about the global music rights industry. Within the paper – an update to the investment house’s Music In The Air publication – Goldman suggested that Universal Music Group was valued, in its eyes, at €44 billion, or around $53 billion. On Tuesday, September 21, this was proven impressively close to accurate, with UMG floating on the Amsterdam Stock Exchange at a market cap value of $54 billion, over a third bigger than the reference valuation Vivendi placed on UMG pre-listing. Great news for Universal, of course. But also, potentially, great news for everyone else: Goldman Sachs’ other predictions in that Music In The Air report included a forecast that the annual revenues of the worldwide recorded music industry will more than double in the decade up to 2030 – as will the global number of paying music streaming subscribers. Fingers crossed.

Sir Lucian Grainge

Universal Music Group’s estimated valuations down the years ($bn) 40 34

22 15 8.5

July 2013 (Softbank makes rejected bid to buy UMG)

Mid-2015 (mystery bidder makes rejected offer)

April 2017 (Vivendi estimate)

March 2020 (Tencent consortium buys 10% of UMG)

August 2021 (Pershing Square buys 10% of UMG)

September 2021 (UMG floats in Amsterdam)

Source as noted. All estimates converted from EUR to USD at prevailing currency rates for each period

Ava Max held a virtual album launch party in Roblox last year

$235 million: Warner puts a value on ‘alternative platforms’

Music industry investors love a growth story, and Warner Music Group boss Steve Cooper gave ‘em a cracker in September during an interview with – them again – Goldman Sachs at the latter’s Communacopia event. Cooper revealed that, in terms of a 12-month run-rate, WMG was now generating $235 million in recorded music-related revenue from what he called “alternative platforms” across gaming, social, fitness and beyond. These platforms included the likes of Facebook, Peloton, Roblox and more. Cooper also indicated that, additionally, somewhere around a fifth of that $235 million number was being generated by Warner’s publishing company from the same sources. “We believe that this intersection between gaming, fitness, and social/digital, will drive substantial revenues in the future,” said Cooper.

80%:

The modern reality for UK artists Has the UK government (and its related bodies) ever taken such an interest in the economics of the music business? September saw Boris Johnson and co. directly respond to a music-focused report from the Department of Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, published earlier this year. That report slammed the power of the major record companies, and even suggested that the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) should investigate them. The government is, so far, less keen on this idea: it has left any decision about a “market study” (not the same thing as an investigation) to the CMA itself. Meanwhile, the CMA is investigating Sony Music’s $430 million acquisition of Kobalt’s AWAL, seemingly using UK-only market data as its source for why this buyout causes competition concerns. However, Spotify’s own data shows that four in every five streams (80%) of British artists actually take place outside the UK. Which begs the question: How could a change in UK-only law (or UK-only market structure) ever significantly change the fortunes of homegrown artists in a globalised industry?

AWAL-signed Little Simz

ANALYSIS

$444 million:

Sir Paul McCartney

Live Nation gets even bigger

While the UK’s competition watchdogs were busy investigating Sony’s buyout of AWAL, another big-money music industry acquisition was being announced in Mexico. Live Nation Entertainment was originally due to acquire 51% of OCESA Entretenimiento – Latin America’s biggest concert promoter – in the first half of 2020. However, the pandemic put paid to the deal, which fell apart. It’s now back on: Live Nation has agreed to acquire a majority stake in OCESA – which has promoted shows by the likes of Coldplay and Sir Paul McCartney – for 8.84 billion Mexican pesos (approx $444 million). The deal is due to close at the end of this year, or the start of 2022. Live Nation boss Michael Rapino said that “as we continue to build on the return to live, OCESA will play a pivotal role in putting together many incredible shows in Mexico and the rest of Latin America”.

25%:

Music’s importance to YouTube gets spelled out A couple of really interesting stats about digital video platforms tumbled out in the past couple of months. First up was YouTube, whose Chief Business Officer, Robert Kyncl, announced at the Royal Television Society Cambridge Convention that music now attracts 25% of total YouTube watchtime globally. A further 25% of watchtime is claimed by media companies, says Kyncl, with 50% claimed by ‘YouTube Creators’. Elsewhere, there was a big update from TikTok in September, with the ByteDance platform announcing that it had surpassed a billion monthly active users (MAUs). For context, that’s nearly three times Spotify’s MAU count (365m) as of the end of June 2021.

Photo: Elliott Wilcox

INTERVIEW

‘AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE’RE IN THIS BUSINESS BECAUSE WE’RE MUSIC PEOPLE’ Ed Howard and Briony Turner have long been A&R stars of the UK industry. Now they’re running one of its premier labels – and making big changes…

t’s an old adage of the music business that there’s a limit on how much meaningful impact any executive can make while sitting behind a screen. It’s fair to say that Ed Howard and Briony Turner have tested the boundaries of that limit in the past 18 months. The duo officially took over as co-Presidents of Atlantic Records UK in January 2020, just two months before The Unmentionable Thing became The Uncontrollable Thing – with their entire workforce suddenly consigned to working from their bedrooms and lounges. (MBUK understands that Warner Music UK, home to Atlantic, is starting to draft people back into the office as of October 2021.) There was also the small matter of Howard and Turner’s determination to evolve the culture of Atlantic following the exit of significant senior execs at the label. Plus the fact that Turner took maternity leave to look after her newborn son just before her promotion to co-President. (As she rightly points out in the below interview: No would-be mother “should put their life on hold for the music industry”.) Since being upped to jointly lead Atlantic UK, Howard and Turner have taken these and other challenges in their stride. They had, after all, already been working together for over a decade in the cauldron of Atlantic’s award-winning A&R department – Howard with the likes of Ed Sheeran, Charli XCX, Anne-Marie and Mahalia, Turner with the likes of Clean Bandit, Jess Glynne and Plan B. Item No.1 on the duo’s lockdown agenda was a refresh of Atlantic’s team, alongside some carefully-curated additions to its artist roster. The first part has been achieved with the additions of standout executives such as Atlantic UK’s EVP, Austin Daboh, alongside the label’s GM, Liz Goodwin, both of whom have joined veteran promo exec Damian Christian – recently upped to MD of 43

Atlantic – within the record company’s management echelons. In addition, there’s been the hiring of exciting A&R talent such as Rich Castillo, who alongside Daboh has driven Atlantic hits including Tion Wayne & Russ Million’s Body, which went to No.1 in the UK and Australia, and has attracted over 280 million Spotify streams since becoming a TikTok sensation earlier this year. Says Turner: “When Ed and I took over, we had a challenge on our hands because a few people, for one reason or another, had left Atlantic. But through that challenge, we had an incredible opportunity to add some new energy and create the right kind of space and culture.” Other standout additions to Atlantic’s artist roster have included the likes of Maisie Peters (now at half a billion streams worldwide, with a No.2 debut album under her belt), Mercury-nominated Laura Mvula, plus Joel Corry, whose five UK Top 10 singles in the past couple of years include breakout smash Head & Heart (with MNEK) which topped charts in the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands and Ireland, as well at hitting No.2 in Australia. These artists have joined Atlantic mainstays like Ed Sheeran – whose recent two UK chart-topping singles bode very well for his album release later this year – plus Charli XCX, Anne-Marie, and Mahalia, who signed with Atlantic nearly a decade ago, and recently surpassed a billion cumulative streams of her catalog. Here, MBUK asks Howard and Turner about how they’re recalibrating the culture of Atlantic Records UK, their long-term artist development philosophy, and what they believe the music industry could be doing to improve the way it treats its talent and its employees....

nine or ten years later. In addition to that, for a UK label we’ve had an unusual amount of international success. That’s important when talking to artists who say, ‘Why do I need a record label now I’ve got this far on my own in the UK?’ They’re absolutely right to ask that question – but we can offer something meaningful from a global perspective. We have partners like Julie [Greenwald] and Craig [Kallman] in the States, and an amazing international team across the world, led by Victor [Aroldoss] that can help take Ed Sheeran to be the biggest streaming artist of the last decade, through to newer artists like Joel Corry and the success he’s seeing. Warner, because of its size, releases fewer priority records globally each year than Sony and Universal. Do you think that works to your advantage when it comes to UK repertoire? Turner: I think it’s extremely advantageous to us in the UK. Going back to your first question, when an artist comes through the door of their label, I think a lot of companies go: “We don’t sign very much.” But at Atlantic, that’s actually true. We are extremely cautious about the volume of artists we sign; we know the level of love, passion, commitment, blood, sweat and tears we’re going to put into their career. You can’t show the extra value that a record company can bring to an artist’s career when you have a bloated roster.

“I think a lot of labels say, We don’t sign very much. But at Atlantic UK, it’s actually true.”

If an artist arrived in your offices today, how would you pitch Atlantic UK as being different to any other label? Turner: Without a shadow of a doubt, it’s our amazing team, who have incredible skill sets across the board, and an immense amount of passion for the artists that they work with. And then in terms of our unique A&R approach, it would be the musical cross-pollination between our roster. That’s something Ed and I have focused on over the past 10-plus years, right up to now with Ed Sheeran’s remix of Bad Habits alongside Tion Wayne, Central Cee and Fumez The Engineer - with a bit of engineering help from Fred Again. We’ve been doing that for years, with collaborations between artists like Clean Bandit, Jess Glynne, Rudimental, AnneMarie, Joel Corry and Charli XCX. Howard: There’s also a good long-term mindset at Atlantic. On an executive level Briony and I have benefitted from time and space to develop here in our careers, and the same is true for how we take time over artists – we build foundations for artists, and we don’t rush. You can see that in everyone from Ed Sheeran to Paulo Nutini, Anne-Marie, Clean Bandit and Mahalia, who walked through the door here as a 13-year-old and is still a [priority artist] 44

Howard: It all comes down to the artist development approach that’s been established over the past 15 years. There’s a subconscious part of our DNA here that goes back to when Max [Lousada] ran the label, and this continued with Ben [Cook]. There’s definitely an emphasis on breaking UK talent here, and that is really healthy for the artists that are signing to us. How would you characterise the impact TikTok has had on you signing and breaking artists? Turner: Obviously TikTok’s become a go-to platform for general music discovery for many people, and from an A&R perspective our team spends hours on it every week. That’s something that’s been totally accelerated by the pandemic; if we were excited about an artist [pre-pandemic] you’d go to a gig. Now if you’re excited about an artist, you’ll go see what’s going on around them on that platform. That said, though we’re using [TikTok] to both inform and discover at the moment, we haven’t yet signed any artists off the back of it. Howard: In terms of using TikTok to break, rather than sign, artists, we just have to look at Body. TikTok was very important for that record, especially the international reach. Seeing that record climbing the charts in America was really remarkable, and a large part of that was down to TikTok. It’s also worth mentioning Ed Sheeran’s interaction with TikTok for Bad Habits. That was really

INTERVIEW

Mahalia

interesting because it was a superstar engaging with the platform. [TikTok UK’s] Paul Hourican came to us and had this idea for a live-stream tie-in with Euro 2020 and Ed, and that combination and the timing of it all came together beautifully. The work done before, during and after that by the team at Atlantic, Ed’s management, and TikTok has very quickly built Ed a substantial following on the platform this year. One of your A&R team comes to you and says: ‘I’ve found this truly amazing artist, but there’s zero online footprint.’ Is that exciting, terrifying or somewhere in the middle? Briony: At the end of the day, we’re in this business because we’re music people. So if someone presents something to me and goes

“this is incredible”, and then you hear a voice that makes your jaw drop... we’d all be in the wrong industry if we didn’t get excited by that. It’s terrifying in the sense that there’s a really long journey to go on with an artist like that. It could take three or even four years [to establish them] without a viral explosive moment – and there’ll be an amount of dedication, work, passion, and spend from the label to fuel that. But if we structure deals in the right way, that definitely diminishes the terrifying aspect of [signing ‘unknown’ new artists. I could speak to Dylan Fraser as an example of an artist who, while he had a good footprint on Instagram, didn’t have huge metrics elsewhere – but we fell head over heels for him, his vision, 45

Joel Corry

Photo: Ben Baluga

Ed Sheeran

his vocals and the quality of his music. It always starts with either an amazing metric, or an amazing talent. Let’s talk about Mahalia specifically, because she’s been around for a beat at Atlantic. That’s not always the case in this industry – especially the UK industry – when labels can still be guilty of fixating on ‘the new’, the BBC Sound Of... poll etc. Howard: Like we said at the top of this conversation, nothing is more rewarding to us than meeting young artists and helping them build a career that can support them in the long term. The question we always ask ourselves with [Atlantic’s current roster] is: Would we sign this artist again today? And with Mahalia the answer is always yes. When you’ve got someone as special as her, underneath all of it, whatever else is going on, you remain confident that it will all fall into place, and that she’s going to bring the magic. She’s in a very good place now, managed by Radha Medar, who’s a long-time collaborator of Atlantic’s and has done a phenomenal job in developing Mabel. Is it genuinely still possible to break a UK artist in the audience’s mind today, versus just a song? Turner: What is true is that there’s no singular way to anoint a “broken artist” today. Back in the old days, if you had an EP at No.1 in the iTunes chart you were on the right path, whereas now it’s really crazy – you can be popping off in different areas, maybe 46

having that explosive moment at Glastonbury, but you’re not troubling the charts. So something can feel really hot but it’s not being borne out by more old-fashioned commercial metrics that are in place. It’s become very difficult to measure. It definitely takes more than a hit, or even a run of hits, to say you’re a [broken] artist today; you need the audience to be able to put a face and a personality to the name. Joel Corry is an interesting example of that. He was a DJ and reality TV star before he started making records, and now we’ve had a really successful run of hits – he’s at around 2 billion global streams. His personality is starting to land, that kind of infectious warmth that he has about him. Major record companies don’t always get applauded for their long-term commitment to artists. An infamous example of what can go wrong is RAYE castigating Polydor for what she perceived as holding back her career by not releasing music. Turner: Ed and I are both really passionate about this subject. First and foremost our artists are humans. We get to know them before the signing process, and only [sign them] if we’re really passionate about them as people. You want to super-serve them for maximum impact on the market, but I genuinely don’t think that hits alone are enough anymore. You’ve got to create a whole world around artists, and you do that by intelligent and bespoke marketing, and by making

INTERVIEW

sure that if you’ve got an artist with an amazing personality, you’re connecting that extra layer – doing your best job to amplify those special things to a broader audience. Our bottom line is this: A happy artist is much more likely to be a successful artist. How much importance does a company like Atlantic put on the UK chart these days versus other metrics? Howard: The charts have been a hallmark of Atlantic’s success for some time and, to some extent, they reflect the financial health of a record label. It’s something that we use to build confidence in artists, as a tool to keep [industry and audience interest] going in artists in the long term. So it’s certainly something we still look at. But as you say it’s not really the whole picture today: we’re really conscious of all the plates we have to keep spinning at any one time to keep an artist’s career and business moving forward. What makes a good artist manager? Turner: First and foremost, a manager who has a super-deep understanding of their artist, their artist’s audience – and what makes that audience move. We pride ourselves on an ‘honesty’s the best policy’ approach with the artists and managers we work with, as that definitely brings about better long-term relationships. But that in itself is dependent on artist managers being excellent communicators with us and with their artists. We love managers who challenge us to think differently. Plus obviously it’s always useful if they have any tentacles of influence into media and [digital/broadcast] partners, so it’s not just the label’s voice going into those outlets.

with Ed and his level of talent, the opportunities are always greater than the challenges. The way we’ve overcome those challenges was to try and come with a record [Bad Habits] that didn’t feel like ground we’d covered before. It’s hard to do that with Ed, when there are so many things he’s done so well before, but we’re very pleased with the reaction so far. What would you change about the modern industry? Howard: It’s hard to answer that question sitting next to Briony and not to talk about inclusion of underrepresented groups, especially at the top of record labels. I’m extremely grateful to work with Briony, but I’m also really mindful, all the time, of what she went through at the start of the pandemic and continues to with [her son]. Also just how rare Briony is as a woman running a UK major record label – that’s something that we really need to look at as an industry. Our biggest learning from the last 18 months is that our team is stronger when it’s diverse enough to truly represent our artists and their fans, and that means making sure that we’re creating an environment where people of different backgrounds, sexual orientations and beliefs can truly thrive. That leads to more trust, more creativity, more understanding and ultimately more success. We will continue to be proactive in terms of hiring, making sure we’ve got people from underrepresented groups at the final stages of every appointment we’re trying to make.

“Our team is stronger when it’s diverse enough to truly represent our artists and their fans.”

Howard: We’ve had the pleasure of working with a few younger managers who bring a unique perspective, especially if they’re a similar age to the artists themselves – and it’s the same for younger team members at Atlantic. But sometimes [managers] like that need space and time to grow, which isn’t always easy when you don’t have the formal structure we benefited from in our careers at a label. That makes mentors all-the-more important. It’s equally as rewarding to us to partner with those managers as it is to work with the super-smart, super-experienced managers in the industry. What’s the challenge and opportunity with pulling together an Ed Sheeran campaign in 2021? Howard: We’ve all seen over the last kind of 18 months that there’s no guarantee that any superstar coming back into the market is going to be as successful as they have been historically. The challenge is not resting on your laurels, not taking anything for granted. The world is moving at an extremely fast pace. Ed has had a bit of time out, off social media, which is unusual for a [star] of his calibre, and itself sets a certain challenge. But

Turner: Tony [Harlow] has been remarkably supportive to both of us. He’s extremely smart, while also being a proper human. He’s been a really good friend for us over the past two years, and his energy is great – he’s made some amazing hires into his senior team. Briony, do you have any advice for women who may be about to go on maternity leave in this business? Music Business Worldwide has run stories before about women who felt unsupported by their employers in that situation, which is no secret in this business. Turner: I’m incredibly fortunate to work at Warner; they treat women very well. But we need that level of support for women across the industry. My only advice to women who want to have children is: procreation is arguably the most important thing to humankind! So don’t put a barrier up to that because of your [industry commitments]. It’s up to the music industry to catch up. Things are getting better, and I have faith that the level of support I received will start to be seen across the board. It’s already much better than when I started in this industry: 20 years ago there were zero female A&R people, let alone women in senior positions. In short: Don’t put your life on hold because of the music business. That would be my advice. n 47

WHAT I WISH I’D KNOWN Becky Richardson recently partnered with ADA for her newly launched label, foundation.fm Records, which aims to champion female talent. She is also a manager at UROK – looking after Babeheaven, Isabella, lavender and Oliver Malcolm – and a radio plugger at Ghost. This is what she’d tell her younger self... One of the first things I wish I’d known before working in the music industry is that you don’t have to do the same job your entire career, despite what people say. I think there’s a culture within the music industry, or there was when I was in the label system, of, ‘You stay in one place, go from tea boy to President’, and that’s just not the type of career that suited me. I thrive off the challenge of change. I’ve done a lot of things – PR, marketing, radio, management, and you can be good at all of those things and go on a journey. There have definitely been moments where I’ve thought, ‘Okay, this is naturally transitioning into this part of my career’, but equally, I think it’s important to not be scared to give up on something if you’re not learning anymore. For me, the minute the job isn’t interesting, challenging or I’ve stopped learning, I feel like it’s a good time to do something different in music or move on. Also, all of my experiences speak to each other. For one of the artists I manage, Babeheaven, we released their first album through AWAL and managed the budget, teams and everything ourselves. Without even realising, I learned all the things I would need for when we started the foundation.fm label. Management also crosses over so much with what the label does, so much of it feeds into each other and makes sense. I think at the start, people thought distribution services were labels but the extent to which they can act as a mini label to hundreds of artists is just not possible. So you’re either on the version of distribution which feels like a mini label, or it’s just a little pot of cash to play with. As [artist careers] grow, it does start to make you think, ‘Could we invest our own management company money in that? Like the first £5k to £15k and get it started ourselves?’ The second thing I wish I’d known is that not all jobs have the possibility to make you 48

“Not all jobs have the possibility of making you a millionaire, standing by the side of the stage at Glastonbury.”

a millionaire and standing by the side of the stage of a Glastonbury headliner. You start out in internships with labels and that’s what you’re picturing, isn’t it? But some jobs in music are just jobs; you go to work, you get your salary, you come home and it’s pretty similar most days. There are highs and lows, there’s lots of pressure and lots of stress and you don’t really get to appreciate the wins as much. If I’d known that, I think I would have started in management earlier. In management, the money side is actually less important because it’s more about the way in which you work directly with the artist. There isn’t anything better than being a manager of an artist, it’s probably the hardest role, but has the biggest rewards. For a lot of people in the industry, you can work on a campaign and never really build a relationship with the artist. When I was radio plugging at Island in the early stages, my roster was basically all international. I was

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Oliver Malcolm

doing Drake, Childish Gambino etc., which was amazing, but it’s not what you imagine. You don’t know the artist and when they do come in to your market, there is a huge team around them and you find yourself just standing in a photo for Music Week. The reality is, you don’t often have a direct relationship with them as you are just one of hundreds of their international team members. Also, once you get to your late twenties/early thirties, it’s quite maddening how all of your friends who don’t work in music, or the creative industries as a whole, are making so much more money than you. That’s something I know a lot of my peers have battled with over the last few years. And that’s the point at which I feel like a lot of people make big moves and say, ‘I’m out of music, I’m going into marketing, or working for this brand’. Say you worked at a bank for five years, you’re going to have incremental pay rises during that time, which is a normal thing to happen, but that sort of thing doesn’t happen in music. That said, you can have huge success in music, it probably just takes a little bit longer. I don’t think knowing that would have changed anything for me, but maybe for some people, it would. The other thing I wish I’d known is that running your own business and being self employed is tough but possible, more so now than 10 years ago. There were hardly any independent radio or

“Running your own business is tough but possible, more so now than 10 years ago.”

Babeheaven

PR companies when I first went out on my own but now there’s loads, because there are so many independent artists. I think it’s amazing because it levels the playing field — you shouldn’t have to be signed to a major label to have access to brilliant people to work with on your campaign. You realise very quickly that anyone you meet who has gone freelance as a promo person or something like that isn’t in competition with you, because there is so much work. When I was radio plugging at the majors, it was a lot more competitive. I was really worried when I went out on my own but actually, you walk into Radio 1 and everyone is so nice to all the indie pluggers and you end up sending work around to each other because you realise what your niche is going to be. The advice I’d give to other people looking to start their own thing is to save your tax when your invoice gets paid. It’s so simple but I just didn’t do it, despite the fact everyone told me to. I had a pretty fun first year, went on a few holidays, bought a new handbag, because you’re earning more money than you were in your previous job and the way the money comes in is a bit of a transition to get your head around. If you do an album campaign, you get all that money in one go. Save your tax and it will all be fine! 49

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WELCOME TO THE OMNIVERSARY: THE PARTY YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE Eamonn Forde observes that the music industry is so keen to celebrate anniversaries, it’s shifting the rules in front of our eyes... As with so many things in music, we have The Beatles to blame/thank (delete as applicable). In June 1987, EMI threw everything it had at the 20th anniversary of Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, notably making it available on CD for the first time. (It has been remastered a number of times since because the original CD release was deemed dangerously underwhelming, but let’s gingerly move on…) The album had, of course, the perfect in-built marketing tag: ‘It was 20 years ago today…’ You can’t not mark an anniversary like that. Granada created a two-hour documentary called It Was Twenty Years Ago Today (in case we missed the hook) and former Beatles PR Derek Taylor published a tie-in book with the same title. They were both really more about hippie culture, Haight-Ashbury, Monterey Pop and prodigious LSD consumption in 1967 than anything else, with the actual Beatles album more of a background theme – the presumption being it would be automatically understood as both a symptom and a catalyst of the times. No matter – it was 20 years ago TODAY so anything went. Who cares if it didn’t quite make sense? It was 20 YEARS AGO TODAY. What this did was make anniversary marketing the default setting for the record business. It had a shiny new format to re-release everything on. Everything (well, everything within commercial reason) would become available and the anniversary would be the justification and marketing concept all rolled into one giant pay day. There had been sporadic anniversaries marked before the June 1987 tipping point. Almost exactly a year before, on 4 June 1986 to be precise, Factory Records held the Festival Of The Tenth Summer to commemorate the 10th anniversary of the Sex Pistols playing Manchester’s Lesser Free Trade Hall, giving it a FAC number (FAC 151). Even sedition could be subjected to the anniversary treatment.

“What this did was make anniversary marketing the default setting for the record business.”

Summer 1987 was also the 10th anniversary of the death of Elvis, but that was not turned into an event on anything approaching the scale that Sgt Pepper was. This was, at the time anyway, as big as it got. This was event horizon marketing. In so many ways it has been sharply downhill from there. Anniversary-centric marketing became the lazy and inevitable default setting for acts of all stripes. But, for better or for worse, it was restricted to mark what are considered landmark anniversaries – 20 years, 25 years, 50 years, that kind of thing. I first noticed the arrival of the ‘fauxniversary’ in 2008 when Liz Phair’s Exile In Guyville got a 15th (fifteenth!) anniversary reissue. Now, I defy anyone to love that album more than I do, but a ‘15th anniversary’ is not a thing. It subsequently got a 25th anniversary reissue in 2018 which would have been fine and acceptable, except 51

Oasis’ Knebworth anniversary movie is the UK’s highest-grossing documentary of 2021 so far

Photo: Jill Furmanovsky / Press

it came on the 10th anniversary of the 15th anniversary reissue. It seemed to be over-egging it all. If you dig around, you’ll find that albums by Slim Whitman, Interpol, British Sea Power, Fatboy Slim, Nickelback (Nickelback!) and The Kooks (The! Kooks!) have all had the 15th anniversary reissue treatment. Even though it is clearly not a thing, there are a large number of people unified in their desperate and doomed desire to make it a thing. Like so much in the modern world, everything went careering into the maw of Hell because of the impact of social media. The phenomenon of Throwback Thursday (or #tbt, if you prefer) is the Patient Zero here of what I call the omniversary. The endless need for content (and the endless pushing of content) on social media has resulted in the uninteresting and the inconsequential, out of necessity as much as out of desperation, being sold as endlessly fascinating and valid. Social media managers were forced to claw through the digital landfill to find something – anything – to post, all part of a resigned race to the bottom. That has meant that an anniversary (any anniversary) of anything (absolutely anything) was fair game and an easy “win” in terms of pumping content out there to oil the algorithms. Three years since X; 11 years since Y; 17 years since Z. None of these are significant dates. This social media grift was all put in sharp relief recently with the celebrations around 25 years of The Spice Girls’ Wannabe single at the start of July and the steady build up to mark 25 years this August of Oasis playing Knebworth. (Technically there should be two Knebworth anniversaries as they played two nights, but let’s leave such unnecessary excesses back in the nineties.) These are proper anniversaries: enormous cultural events that still echo down the years with both of them marking their respective quarter centuries. These anniversaries actually mean something. They have resonance. Fantastic. Well done to The Spice Girls and well done to Oasis. Major anniversaries, however, risk losing their power and their significance if absolutely everything can – and will be – celebrated on any anniversary at all.

I love Def Leppard. I mean, I really love them. They were the first band I ever bought a ticket to see (at the King’s Hall in Belfast on 22nd April 1988). But their social media accounts recently ‘celebrated’ the 34th anniversary of Animal. I love Animal. I bought it on the day of release. But 34 is not a landmark anniversary. It’s not anything. (Incredibly, they mistakenly said it was 24 years since its release. My ageing bones wish it was only 24 years but, even if it was, 24 is not a landmark anniversary either.) Def Leppard are far from the only ones doing this. It is everywhere. And by being everywhere it is actually nowhere. This is the anniversary as ouroboros. Living in a perpetual state of anniversary-ness is no way to live. It’s like an endless NYE party – fun for a few days, even weeks, but soon you will want to go home, sit on your own sofa and just have a bowl of soup and an early night. The time will come when the sound of the champagne

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Rick Savage of Def Leppard performs in Denver in 2002... 15 years after Animal was released

corks being forcibly popped and cheers being pulled from dry mouths and cracked lips will start to grate. Eventually those fireworks will sound like bullets being shot into our souls. Maybe. This whole situation is going to become exacerbated further as catalogue listening increasingly outstrips listening to new (or even new-ish) releases. This streaming-led retreat into the past is going to become marketed even more aggressively, meaning that the flimsiest of anniversary hooks will be expected to carry the weight of some very heavy coats. It all reminds me of Randall & Aubin, a perfectly lovely seafood restaurant in Soho, London. It was established in 1996 and completely understandably celebrated its 20th anniversary in 2016 by hanging a giant crab on the front of the building saying ‘20th anniversary’. Marvellous. Go past there today and it says ‘23rd anniversary’, which meant the

“I love Animal. I bought it on the day of release. But 34 is not a landmark anniversary. It’s not anything.”

oversized decapod would have been amended in 2019 but has not been updated since. It tried to make a ‘23rd anniversary’ a thing and then sort of… gave up. So it hangs there like a Christmas tree dumped in the street in February – a bleak reminder of times gone but with an underlying refusal to let them go completely. Maybe it’s all a meta commentary on the ubiquity of anniversaries. Maybe it is plump with satire. Maybe. But I’m tired and I don’t have the energy to make this all stack up in my head. It is now the 34th anniversary of It Was Twenty Years Ago Today being first broadcast. This is surely the time to mark this most auspicious of anniversaries. Dump an oversized crab dressed in a fluorescent military uniform in the corner of Manchester Square where EMI used to be. That should do it. 53

INTERVIEW

‘THE ARTISTS YOU STICK WITH FOR A LONG TIME ARE THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE UPS AND DOWNS’ Verdigris Management founder Sam Denniston on managing two of the UK’s most acclaimed dance acts, life away from labels and avoiding the blame game...

Photo: Chris Frazer Smith

usic Business UK speaks to Sam Denniston while he’s reflecting on, and recovering from, another successful campaign for Verdigris Management. Jungle’s latest album, Love In Stereo, recently hit No.3 in the UK album charts. It’s the band’s first release on AWAL, and their first since parting ways with their former label, XL Recordings. In 2013, Sam Denniston founded Verdigris Management as a young twenty-something from his London bedroom. Now, the artist management company has staff in London, Los Angeles and NYC. Verdigris is home to well-established crowd favourites (Hot Chip, Jungle), Frank Ocean-tipped experimentalists (Superorganism) and space-pop dreamers (LA Priest). In March, Jungle signed a global recordings deal with AWAL, offering the duo a full range of services, including global marketing, campaign coordination, synch licensing and global distribution. “It’s been incredibly full on and time consuming, but it’s been an amazing experience,” says Denniston, looking back on the campaign as the dust begins to settle. “We had an amazing week one, and then it’s about extending the longevity out the back of it.” Denniston is also settling into his role as a spokesperson for change within the industry. Earlier this year, he became a trustee of the UK charity Youth Music, an organisation that invests in music-making projects for children and young people experiencing challenging circumstances. Here, we talk to Denniston about Jungle, how to cultivate longterm success, bagging a Billie Eilish support slot and why labels need to be more transparent with managers. Congratulations on the success with Jungle, especially as the band went away from a major label in XL and moved to AWAL. How did that deal come about, and how has the deal changed what you do? I’ve always been incredibly interested in label services, and I’ve been fashioning the company to be a company that can slot into whatever system the artist wants to work with. That’s our USP. 55

We’re not fussy about which partner we work with, but it has the partner that makes sense. We have very bespoke, tailored individuals who work at the company in a similar way to what a record label does. There’s a team of about 12 people worldwide that an artist can slot into. I really wanted that, so that whenever I took an artist into a system I had the confidence that they would be getting the bespoke love that you sometimes only get if you’re a priority at a record label. With AWAL, I’ve always been very aware of what they’re doing and how they’re trying to flip the music industry business model on its head. I’m a huge advocate of people who are innovative, and people who respect artist’s rights. They’re not signing their life away, it’s something that’s a bit more artist friendly. Jungle, when they first came out, signed to XL. We had an amazing couple of records with them where they really helped set Jungle up to be the big artists that they are. The head of A&R, Imran Ahmed, was instrumental in not only helping get the band to a great place, but held my hand as a fairly junior manager. Some labels might see a 23-year-old manager come in and try and oust them, but they took the time to incubate me as a manager, as well as incubate the band. But that relationship kind of ran its course. Josh and Tom [members of Jungle] are very headstrong individuals and know exactly what they want, and it got to a point with XL where there were just too many creative differences. XL and myself just had a very honest conversation, and we decided to mutually part ways. They could sense that it is better to set an artist creatively free to go off and do what they need to do. With Jungle, they needed to be in a structure where they had total autonomy and control. And having worked with AWAL on a few other artists and artist campaigns, I knew that was the best possible [home] for it. But we’re not a management company who works exclusively with label services. For us, it’s about whatever we feel is the best for our artists. If they want to be a major pop star signing a major record deal and going all the way to the top, we can cater to that. But we can also take care of an entire campaign in-house. I’ve been doing this since 2013, and I have the track record to back that up. Jungle have gone in at number three in the charts. Not that chart positions are the be all and end all, but they’re still a good barometer of all the hard work that goes into it.

other label services like The Orchard. That gave me a lot of confidence. A lot of great people had moved into those systems, which is always a barometer of whether a company is good or not. Within those systems, because you as the manager are in control of the entire budget, a lot of the people you hire are people that report directly back to you. When you employ a press and radio person in Australia, they’re coming back directly to you and you can quiz them on why the track isn’t on the radio, or if it is on the radio, how do we get it to the next stage. I felt confident going into that system. Comparing a band like Jungle, who are three albums deep, to Hot Chip who have been around for decades, for you as a manager, how do you maintain and build an artist brand? Hot Chip are still the headline band, and Jungle will likely be the same. How do you cultivate that, and keep this lasting success? I took Hot Chip on from their last record, A Bath Full of Ecstasy. There was definitely a bit of revival and a renewal process that needed to be done there. They needed some excitement and positivity to be injected into the band. They themselves wondered if people really wanted another record from them, which obviously they did. They just very intuitively that they needed new management, at a certain point. They felt like they needed fresh life around them. For me, as a 30-year-old at that point, who had grown up with them, it felt like a big reach for me going in to become their manager, but I think they saw in me an energy that needed to be brought to the project. I went into it pushing the band as hard as I possibly could to get them back into the forefront of everyone’s minds as the big, important band that they had been. We managed to land the record just outside the top 10, at number eleven, which they hadn’t quite been to at that point. We changed up the show to really elevate it, and get them up to being that headline band that they deserve to be. The relevance is always in the music. Hot Chip are artists who are very aware of themselves, and they’re always trying to push themselves to make the best possible music. As a manager, it’s just about empowering them as much as possible.

“XL and myself just had a very honest conversation and we decided to part ways.”

Well, getting a top 10 is never going to be a bad thing. But would you say this a relatively recent industry progression? That you have the opportunity and confidence in taking a band like Jungle to AWAL? When having the confidence of taking artists outside of label systems, I watched big campaigns that AWAL were doing, and 56

On a similar note, how do you cultivate these long careers for mixers and writers on your roster, such as Heba Kadry and Japhna Gold? I’m simplifying here, but mixers and writers are typically stuck behind a desk, and maybe take a backseat to the artist. How do you place these mixers and writers more at the forefront? A lot of the mixes and writers we work with come from our stable of artists.

INTERVIEW

Photo: Filmawi

Jungle

The idea came to us during Covid, when obviously live music was completely wiped off the table and we had to think about how we could diversify. Matt Wiggins [mixer and producer for Adele, U2 and Coldplay] approached us and said, ‘Look, I love the culture that you guys have around the artists that you work with, would you consider working with me as a mixer?’ We took him on, then word got out that we were doing that and others joined. We try to keep things within our own stable as much as possible and give mixers and songwriters a leg up from some of the bigger artists on our roster. It’s about getting them working on cool projects, knowing who the best new artists are, talking to A&Rs and publishers

and making sure that our mixers and writers are at the forefront of that. When you have a breakthrough act, like Kero Kero Bonito or LA Priest, how do you manage their expectations when they first blow up to have a long-standing career later on? Is that something you have to be conscious of? You just have to do your best as a manager, ultimately. Sometimes the relationship isn’t right, or an artist will have a tricky record that won’t perform as well as they wanted it to. More often than not, the manager is the easiest person to blame for that, but it can be the songwriting, or something can be a masterpiece but it just doesn’t really connect with the public. 57

The best artists are the artists that can self-reflect on that, and as a manager it’s about those having honest conversations with artists. The artists you stick with for a long time are those who understand that there are ups and downs. There’s a huge amount of luck in artist management, and you never know what email you’re going to get in your inbox that can completely transform something. Jungle will be supporting Billie Eilish on her tour, that’s a huge opportunity. I bet that Billie Eilish email was a good one to land in your inbox... We’d seen that Billie was a big fan of Jungle’s first record and would often post about them on her [social media] stories. There aren’t many people in the world that Jungle would support, but they felt really honoured that she wanted them. It’s a great way for them to play to a slightly different audience, too. It’s just a no brainer. Was that opportunity something that came out of the blue? It was something I went after. Well, I say I went after it. I literally just put two and two together. But it felt like a great pivotal moment. Having the coolest teenager in the world giving you a co-sign felt like a great marketing moment before the album came out.

Has that changed in recent years, an openness to look at these problems and not shy away from the conversations that need to be had? Definitely. We’re moving very steadily in the right direction. Has that particularly changed over the past 18 months, when many areas of the music industry were put on hold overnight? Did that pause maybe allow people in the industry to change, rethink and reshape how they do things moving forward? I hope so, but people were also incredibly panicked about their livelihood as well. For a lot of management companies, that did have such an important income from live music, I wonder if they’d have had the opportunity to sit down and think about that when they were really struggling. The difficulty is that I’ve always run my own company, so I don’t know what it’s like to work for someone else. I haven’t had to tell [a workplace] ‘I need to be in hospital for two days every two weeks receiving a treatment. Can you employ me?’ I’ve always been very fortunate that I set up my own company, I am my own boss, and no one’s checking where I am. Finally, what one thing would you change about the music industry, and why? I would love it if record labels had a bit more faith in managers in terms of what they put down. I would love to have a bit more transparency on marketing budgets with record labels, so that we weren’t like X amount of singles in to be told the money is drying up. What’s been so amazing about working with AWAL is that we had complete transparency on the budget and were able to manage it. Weirdly, it almost makes managers make the money work harder. We’re more aware of the pot, as opposed to the notion of always pushing the level to spend more and more. When you have a critical single that’s just before a record is coming out, and you’re told that you’ve already spent in excess, if I knew I was getting through it at that rate then I would have spent £5k less on each video so that we had a nice pot of money for the final video. It’s about letting managers into the inner workings of it all a little bit so that they can manage expectations a little bit better. But I feel like we’re really going in the right direction with fairer deals. There’s so much noise in the industry about streaming and the money that flows back through to artists and labels, and I think there’s enough people championing that change at the moment. I do think that we will see a change in the coming years, and I do think that record labels are doing fairer and fairer deals for the service that they do offer. n

“There aren’t many people in the world Jungle would support, but they felt honoured.”

I read an interview around October around Youth Music’s Reshape Music report, detailing the experiences of disabled musicians in the industry. Since then, how has your work as an advocate for greater access for disabled people progressed? And what did that report highlight that needs to change? I was very honoured to be asked to be made a trustee of Youth Music this year. It’s not so specific to disability and access to music, but generally breaking down some of the barriers and allowing young people greater access into the music industry. For Jungle’s upcoming shows at the Brixton Academy, we’re enabling teenagers from the local area to come and shadow Jungle’s crew for a few days to see all the different components of how a show works. The dream would be that one day, hopefully, someone that came down to that show who really wanted to be a lighting designer or a monitor tech could then get their skills up to a point where we could put them out on tour with one of our developing artists. Disability is a newer topic within music, and I don’t think that anyone’s doing anything wrong, it’s just that people need to be discussing it a little bit more. With a lot of modern subjects people are scared of saying the wrong thing, but we should empower people to ask the questions they need to and understand different people’s needs. 58

DID YA KNOW..., Changing the narrative There is a story behind all of us. There is a reason why we are who we are…

Did Ya Know… The Pioneers, The Podcast. The stories of the executives of colour that have led the way. Available from wherever you get your podcasts.

SOMETIMES, ‘POLITE POP STARS’ ARE MUTED BY THIS BUSINESS Rhian Jones believes the influence of the music industry can have troubling consequences for young artists – and prevent their personalities from shining... In June, RAYE had had enough of being a ‘polite pop star’. She took to Twitter to vent her frustration at being signed on a four-album deal to Polydor for over six years – and not having been allowed to release one album. Whichever way you look at the situation, it’s clearly unfair and frustrating – and it’s undoubtedly a good outcome that she’s now able to pursue her career independently without being reduced to a set of statistics that a finance department isn’t happy with. Lots has been written about this, so I won’t delve into the specifics of the situation here, but what is worth examining closely is the idea that RAYE felt she had to be a ‘polite pop star’ in the first place. Back in 2017, mega manager Sarah Stennett delivered an impassioned speech at Midem on the subject of how today’s budget-focused music industry doesn’t allow for the kind of risk-taking that allowed legendary stars like Sid Vicious, Debbie Harry and Keith Richards to flourish. The thread that ties these names together is a spirit of rebellion, she said: “They are usually outsiders, difficult and stubborn, with a very clear vision that seems unorthodox and doesn’t fit in.” This attitude is often essential, added Stennett, in order to fuel something culturally groundbreaking, and is sorely lacking in today’s business. “If you walk into certain offices today in the music business and you’re not playing ball, told to do this and that, and it’s very clear you’re going to be disruptive, you’re going to see consequences for sure,” she explained further. “The business as a whole takes that disruption, youth culture and rebellion, as a sign of unreliability. I think all of us as a business have to be more open. If you want disruptive influencers that lead the way, you’ve got to accept chaos.” RAYE has spoken about how stifled she felt within her major label deal on an excellent episode of Spotify’s Who We Be podcast. She 60

“There’s another, more sinister, element to this idea of the ‘polite pop star’.”

didn’t want to be confined to one genre, whereas her label only allowed her to follow one, and it wasn’t the one she was naturally drawn to (dance, when she started out as an R&B artist). Still, she did what she was told and played ball, until she broke. I understand the business reasons for this approach. It’s tough to break through in today’s faceless streaming age where tracks, rather than artists (unless you’re a superstar), deliver market share. Dance bangers are more likely to offer faster results, than, say, an artist who is experimenting during the development phase. Still, the music business often touts itself as an incubator (and partner) of artist careers, which seems wholly disingenuous when it’s this approach that’s favoured. As Stennett pointed out, it’s the artists who are allowed to be authentic and take risks that have always stood the test of time. There’s another, more sinister, element to this ‘polite pop star’ issue. Music business companies and executives are powerful. They seemingly hold the keys to an enchanted kingdom of superstardom that young artists think will make all their dreams come true. Young artists will remain on their best behaviour at all times, regardless of the unfair and sometimes dangerous situations they are in, for fear of being expelled into obscurity and blacklisted within the business. I recently spoke to one artist whose (selffunded and produced) album had been blocked from release by her independent label for two years. She says she thinks it was partly due to the content, which focused on ‘female issues’ that they’d expressed discomfort about, but also because she’d complained about the inappropriate sexual conduct of two artists who were signed to the label (one of which was a big money maker). “I think they felt as if I was somebody that wasn’t on the team. I see it as a mechanism of control to try and silence me – and

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punish me to an extent – for having spoken about some things that I saw happening that I thought were not okay,” she said. Another artist I’ve interviewed recently, who was stuck on the shelf at a major label for five years, said she’d been told to “lay as low as possible” in order to protect her security. “I was told to act like I didn’t exist.” During that time, she didn’t get to release any music and was left in limbo for a significant portion of her twenties — a time when her career should have been gaining traction. Yet another interviewee, also signed to a major label, said the music she was writing by herself was ignored while whatever was created in the studio with a male producer wasn’t. “I didn’t have any say. And if I had any say in it, I was made to feel like I was crazy, like I was difficult – all the things a woman is when she says no.” I’ve heard concerning evidence of this misguided ‘artist being difficult’ attitude from executives, too. When the Kesha and Dr. Luke trial was ongoing, a female music executive in the US felt the need to point out that “Kesha has always been a difficult artist”, like that had any relevance to the extremely damaging situation she’d been involved in at the hands of someone else (which, I’d argue, would make anyone act in a ‘difficult’ manner). When RAYE went public with her grievances, another senior female music exec in the UK told me that it seemed to be a “mental health issue”. Yes, RAYE has spoken about how her mental health was suffering, but that wasn’t the problem, it was an understandable reaction to the difficult situation she was in — ie. the actual problem. Since she left the situation at Polydor, RAYE told Spotify that she’s done “a literal 180” from not wanting to leave her room for two weeks to feeling grateful and positive about her future. Although the examples I cite above are all female artists, men will be silenced, too. However, I would say there’s strong evidence that it disproportionately impacts women, and could be one of the reasons why there is a gender disparity in music. I know the BPI and BRIT Awards are currently doing an extensive study that looks into the impact of gender on a career as a recording artist in the UK and I hope the attitudes outlined above are closely examined as part of that. How much rancid behaviour from the business side of music gets swept under the carpet because artists don’t want to harm their careers so don’t

RAYE

“Yes, RAYE has spoken about how her mental health was suffering, but that wasn’t the problem.”

speak out? How many artists don’t get to reach their full potential and miss out on years of their lives due to being in business arrangements that act as dictatorships? This culture is not conducive to the industry growing, improving and landing in the 21st century. Aside from the ‘difficult’ behaviour that might just mean someone is in a shitty situation, I’d also argue that it’s a good thing if an artist has a strong sense of self and isn’t afraid to articulate that, because it’s often conducive to good art and cultural development, like Stennett was talking about earlier. (There will be, of course, artists, and people, who genuinely are a nightmare to work with and can make the jobs of their teams very difficult, but I suspect this is in the minority.) The music business is dealing with people, ‘difficulties’, opinions, and all, and that’s the attribute that stands it apart from any other product-making industry. Celebrating and supporting those people makes sense both morally and from a long-term business perspective. So why isn’t it being done? 61

‘I USED TO LISTEN TO THE CHARTS AND THINK, WHAT’S ALL THIS SHIT? BUT I COULDN’T HATE SOMETHING I WANTED TO BE SUCCESSFUL AT’ He was the lead vocalist in one of Britain’s most hotly-tipped bands, before going on to join The Streets. Now, Rob Harvey is finding new levels of success as a pop songwriter...

obert Harvey was once the frontman of The Music. Formed in 2001 in the city of Leeds, success came to him faster than he expected. Or even wanted. The band’s 2002 debut self-titled album was hailed as an instant classic. Harvey was a teenager at the time. It became a certified Gold record, released during a musical halcyon age for anyone who today calls themselves a millennial. It came on the cusp of a mainstream moment for UK indie music, a scene defined by skinny jeans, sweaty gigs, lead singers appearing on panel shows and guitar riffs from the Arctic Monkeys and The Libertines. 2004’s Welcome to the North came next for The Music, followed by 2008’s Strength in Numbers. Then, everything changed. Harvey left the band in 2010, and by the end of 2011 The Music had been turned off. The years that followed for Harvey were interspersed with moments of soul searching and general disillusionment towards the music industry. Harvey was done with being ‘The Frontman’, but wasn’t entirely sure what his role in music was anymore. He was in a funk, but it was one that he overcame thanks, in part, to Mike Skinner of The Streets. After writing two songs on The Streets’ 2011 album Computers and Blues – and featuring as a vocalist – Harvey joined the band on tour as a singer and guitarist. Harvey was still doing what he loved – music, mostly – but thanks to Skinner the eyes weren’t solely on him anymore. More

than that, though, Skinner aided Harvey in his self-described, post-Music ‘rebirth’. “I’ve got so much to be thankful for to Mike Skinner,” says Harvey. “He showed me so many things about songwriting that you can’t get on a college course.” After his period of holding the music industry in contempt, it’s perhaps unlikely that Harvey would go on to pen a number of blissfully joyous, unashamedly uplifting pop hits. Songs that, by his own admission, his former-self might even scoff at. But that’s exactly what happened. Since 2014, Harvey’s writing credits have spanned Clean Bandit’s Real Love and Gorgon City’s Take It All, to Rudimental’s I

In recent months, with a reunion gig set for 2022, Harvey has been revisiting some of his earlier works with The Music and is back rehearsing with his bandmates. “We’ve not played together for 10 years,” he says. “We never knew if it was going to sound good. My voice has changed quite a bit, too. But after 10 years, we played a song and we knew it was going to be alright.” Harvey had recently returned from The Ivor Novellos when we speak. Alongside fellow Head & Heart songwriters Jonathan Courtidis and Dan Dare, he was nominated for the PRS for Music Most Performed Work award. “We didn’t win, but it was nice to be recognised and nominated,” he laughs. Nevertheless, he’s in good spirits as he remembers his early years in The Music, how he turned mainstream disdain into pop music gold, and why writing a good song can be akin to writing a Presidential speech...

“I was in a bit of a weird place mentally, and was thinking some pretty dark shit.”

Will for Love and Jax Jones’s All 4 U. And in 2020, while the world was shut down, Harvey co-wrote Head & Heart, recorded by Joel Corry and MNEK. With its obscenely catchy bassline, and lyrics that speak of being ‘frozen in motion’ by a fleeting crush, the single became a quintessential, would-be festival staple – however, as no festivals be held, it found new life in the living rooms and kitchens of bored Brits instead. It also hit No.1 in the UK charts, and picked up nominations at the BRIT Awards for British Single, and at the iHeartRadio Music Awards for Dance Song of the Year.

You recently took part in an online listening party for The Music’s second album, Welcome to the North. Have you listened to that record much since it was released all those years ago? That album was a weird one for us. The Music’s first album was all very positive. For the second album, we had about six songs and were sent to Atlanta to finish it. We had nine weeks to finish writing it, and to record it, produce it and mix it. We’d been on tour consistently, my grandma was not very well and then I was sent to Atlanta for nine weeks. It sounds nice, but not when you’ve been on tour for two years.

Photo: Aaron Steven Eastwood

Photo: Edd Westmacott / Alamy

Harvey performing with The Music at Glastonbury, 2003

INTERVIEW

At that time, I was in a bit of a weird place mentally, and I was thinking some pretty dark shit. I’m not really like a rock and roll kind of guy. But it’s hard not to get swept up in the thrill-seeking of [the frontman experience]. So, it’s pretty weird to listen to that album now. I don’t really like a lot of songs on it. It’s difficult to listen to, but it’s good to go back and see how far we’ve come. Life is so strange, with the little twists and turns it can take you on. But I’ve got nothing but gratitude for [that period]. Even the dark stuff. You’ve obviously continued as a songwriter from The Music days. How does it differ writing songs as a professional songwriter vs. being an artist-songwriter in a band? As a songwriter now, I am aiming songs at [audiences]. It’s being way more selective about what I’m trying to do. Before, as an artist, it was about expression and how we felt as a band. I think [the band] played how they felt, and I sang how I felt. I really like the challenge of trying to move people and doing it through a slightly different avenue. The skill set is trying to create something super simple; something familiar, but different enough that it still feels new. It’s way easier to be leftfield and ‘out there’. You win every time if that’s all you’re trying to do. But if you’re trying to hit a market, sell records, and [attract] views or streams, you have to be much more specific about who the audience is, and who the artist is. How did you learn to write for other artists? And specifically for artists that want to rack up big streaming numbers? I have a chaos-and-order approach, whether that’s me on my own late at night or me with a guitar by the table. I don’t want to have boundaries or rules to start with, and when something starts to formulate – a melody, maybe – that’s when I’ll be more orderly about it. For me, it’s really important to not let the selective bit come too early in the process. If you’re halfway through a verse,

and someone’s going, ‘this is not a hit’, I want to tell them to shut up. I think the biggest mistake you can make is when you think you know what you’re doing. That’s when you’re furthest away from it. It’s like trying to explain what God is. The more you talk about it, the further away you get from it. From back when you left The Music, to when you began working with The Streets and eventually, the likes of Clean bandit and Gorgon City... how hard was it to break into a new role as a pop songwriter? I’ve always been pretty delusional, but in the best possible way. I’ve always felt pretty free. But by the end of The Music I needed something without any walls for a little while.

“It’s way easier to be leftfield and ‘out there’ than trying to sell records.” Mike [Skinner] is unbelievable with words. He always talks to me about [rhythm structures] like meters and male and female words. He talks to me about how to use those two feelings and how things sit nicely on the ends of lines. He sends me Presidential speeches. They’ll use a technique where the word that finishes last in the sentence is the beginning of the next. “Today’s a special day / a day that we can be brought together as one nation / a nation under God,” that sort of thing. It’s those little tricks and tips that I’d never really thought of as a writer before. Then I started to realise that a song isn’t about me, it’s about the listener. And then that’s when it clicked. I also went to a seminar by a guy called Ralph Murphy. He said, ‘Nobody cares what you think, they listen to the music because they want to connect to their own lives and their own story.’ It’s about presenting them

with an idea they can latch onto. He also said to find someone who’s not a very good singer to sing your songs, because then you’ll find out if you’ve got a good song! It’s almost like emotional manipulation of the listener, but for a beautiful reason. That whole period from, like, 2011 to the beginning of 2014 was a massive rebirth for me. There was definitely some bitterness towards the end of The Music for me towards the industry. It’s quite a way to fall when you think you’re the shit and then suddenly you’re not. I used to listen to the charts and think, ‘What’s all this shit? This isn’t real music.’ But I’m lucky that I’ve got loads of really smart people around me who told me I can’t hate something that I want to be successful at. There’s a lot of humbling I had to go through. So I thought, fuck it, I’m going to delve as deeply as I can into songwriting. That’s how I got the rebirth and energy back. It makes sense. Being in a band playing in their garage, reaching the heights, breaking up then becoming disillusioned with it all isn’t a cliché for no reason. There were a lot of bands with a similar setup to us that were making that [kind of ] noise. But that wasn’t who I was. I’m not really an indie guy, that’s just what worked for us at the time. Now, it’s just about expression and falling in love with whatever works for the song. Whether a song’s successful or not, you’ll always be able to sit with the song you’ve written and play it. If nobody else likes it, so what. Was there a specific moment that humbled you after The Music? When I was 21, 22 I went into rehab. I stopped drinking, stopped smoking; I’ve literally not touched a drink, drugs or even caffeine for 15 years. I’m not afraid to start again, but I’m aware of the allure of what music can do to the ego. I’m afraid of that, because it taps into a part of me that I don’t like. 65

Harvey co-wrote the 2014 hit Real Love for Clean Bandit (pictured) and Jess Glynne

Is that where you’ve found a contrast between being the frontman of a band, to taking more of a backseat as a songwriter? I’m not fussed about the centre stage anymore. I’ve scratched that itch. I’m not old by any means – I’m 38 – but [being a star] is a young person’s game. Now, it’s about trying to keep developing, and trying to help other young people and artists. Trying to pull as many people over the wall as I can. I manage an artist called Harlee; if I can just bring a few people along that’s something that I’d love to do.

successful before I’ve really ‘done the work’, and Clean Bandit was similar as a songwriter. It came early in my career, and I didn’t really understand it. I knew how to write good songs, but I didn’t know how to do it consistently,

included now. Maybe I just feel a bit more validated. I don’t know. Perhaps it’s a feeling of having proven yourself as a songwriter? I will just write a song because I want to write a song, but I still want people to like it. There’s something that makes us [songwriters] want to keep doing this. Maybe it’s insecurity, a need to prove ourselves, or a need to feel loved. There’s maybe a need to prove people wrong. I’ve definitely had a problem with never feeling like I’m enough, so maybe that keeps me going. When I was younger, music for me was my football. It was my way of getting people to realise I was good at something. [Music’s] the first thing I felt that people respected me for, so maybe that’s something that’s stayed with me.

“It’s quite a way to fall when you think you’re the shit then suddenly you’re not.”

Is that attitude something you’ve learned over time, maybe through working with acts like Clean Bandit and Rudimental? The Music happened at a really young age where we didn’t really have the foundations to support our success. I’ve always been 66

or how to manage my emotions on a consistent level. I was up and down, emotionally. If someone didn’t like my song, I’d be like ‘fuck you’. Now, it’s not as emotional for me. I don’t know whether that comes from getting older, or maybe I feel a little more

INTERVIEW

Now you’re in that role as a mentor, and you have to guide someone. I get to share what I love about music with Harlee. As I move into my forties I’d like to take a bit more of an executive position where I can facilitate writing and help people, rather than constantly being the one on the front foot going around the country trying to do it all. I’m still learning, and I’m still trying to teach what I’ve learned as well. Over the time that you’ve been songwriting, from The Music to Joel Corry, how has the industry around you changed? Obviously the internet changed everything. Around 2005, it changed dramatically with the Arctic Monkeys and iTunes. Then, afterwards, there was a period where I had to ask myself: Do I want to be involved in this? Or am I just going to be some moody indie guy that sits on the sidelines and comments about how much they hate new music? I didn’t want to be that. The one thing that doesn’t change is just the power of a song, the power of an idea. That’s all I really focus on. I think I’d be overwhelmed if I thought about the minutiae of how things have changed [in the industry] over the years. I have a foot in two worlds. I love the idea of raw, organic, unapologetic music. I think we need that more than ever. I think things are so sanitised. I miss spitting, swearing and blood on people’s T-shirts. Everything’s so nice now. For some things that’s good, obviously. There are other cultures and communities being included [in mainstream music] now. That’s a beautiful thing. But there’s a youthful energy, [artists] who’ve got something to say, I think that’s missing. It’s hard to have that come through when everything is so ‘in the box’. If you said to me when I was 16 or 17 with The Music, ‘Have you thought about what you’re going to post on Instagram today?’ I wouldn’t have understood you. We called ourselves The Music because we couldn’t be arsed thinking of a name. We didn’t care about anything else other than smoking weed and making a fucking

In addition to his own music career, Rob Harvey manages Harlee, who lent vocals to Joel Corry hit Lonely last year

loud noise. I miss that, and I don’t know how that comes back. But I’m 38 now, not 18, and I don’t really know what young people think. Just because something doesn’t speak to me, doesn’t mean it’s not great. I think music is very much a backdrop to other things now, as opposed to being the main thing that people go do or see. For better or for worse. I was talking to the drummer from The Streets who brought his son to a gig we did. His tastes are so eclectic. When I was younger, you were just into one thing. There were the goths, the people listening to happy hardcore, and us who were listening to Oasis. Now, people listen to everything, and that’s magic. I’d also love to see more female producers. There needs to be more opportunities for young female producers and songwriters;

it’s a must. I know so many ridiculously talented female producers I’m constantly in awe of. It’s definitely better than it was, but we need to create more opportunity. And I think songwriters deserve to be paid better. It’s just crazy how songwriters get paid the least [of anyone associated with a record], and if there is any negotiation people use publishing as a negotiation tool. How is that fair? We’re already not getting paid anything, and now it’s being taken from our publishing? If you’re a young songwriter coming up, you write a massive song, give it to a singer and it’s a worldwide success, the idea that the artist is going to make 10 times what you have is madness. I’m well aware of the service that labels provide, but all of it stands on the foundation of songs. We need to start protecting that. n 67

Tom Lewis

Photo: Carsten Windhorst

Laura Monks

‘WE HAVE TO INNOVATE ALL THE TIME, WE HAVE TO FIND NEW WAYS OF TELLING STORIES’ Laura Monks and Tom Lewis, co-Managing Directors of the legendary Decca label, talk about their plans for Q4 and beyond, the challenge and inspiration that comes from such a diverse roster and the impact of streaming on classical and jazz…

or a label that is steeped in tradition more than most, Decca isn’t afraid of change or, to deploy a word used by Co-Presidents Tom Lewis and Laura Monks, adventure. In fact, they argue, the label’s roster demands change and ensures adventure. Over the next few months, for instance, the team will be working with artists ranging from outré modern jazz collective Steam Down, to housewives’ choice Andrea Bocelli, to maverick pop genius Brian Wilson, via Actual Living Legend Diana Ross. All aboard! Decca, its joint bosses agree, likes nothing better to surprise – sometimes itself, more often than not, the outside world. It is, to paraphrase Monks, a very

young label that just happens to be in its nineties. Or, as Lewis puts it: “I think from the outside people might assume that Decca’s a very conventional label, but with the lineup we have and the goals we set, we have to innovate all the time; we have to find new ways of telling stories.” As with many of the Decca team, both were once aspiring and quite serious musicians (Lewis: “I went to Texas to study jazz for a year – the most important thing I learned: I wasn’t anywhere near good enough”; Monks: “As a teenager, I I was going to be Justin Timberlake’s backing dancer/trombonist. I was sure that was a thing”). They have spent close to 30 years at the label between them, Monks

rising through the digital, marketing and commercial ranks, Lewis making his name in A&R. In early 2020, they were promoted to be co-MDs, reporting into Decca President Rebecca Allen – who left the label three months later to go and head up EMI. Monks and Lewis stepped up and are now in overall charge of a label that doesn’t just pre-date rock n roll, it pre-dates the Wall Street Crash. Yet rather than talk history, the executive duo are thoroughly forwardfocused, looking ahead to Q4 and beyond, concerned only with the current roster and excited above all about the continuing (emphasis on continuing) adventures of Decca.

INTERVIEW

When you were made co-MDs, what did you discuss between you in terms of your priorities, the sort of company you wanted to help run – and the lines of demarcation? Monks: We both wanted to have a young, future-facing label, and that goes for individuals within the team, as much as artists that we’re signing. We wanted to transition our audience into the digital space. Lewis: Laura and I complement each other very well. My background is in A&R, hers is in digital marketing, and the commercial side of things, and we’ve found that we approach problems and challenges from different angles, so we both get the opportunity to see things from different perspectives We know where our strengths are, but we both contribute across the board – she talks to A&R as much as I talk to Marketing – and we just work really, really well together. A couple of months after your promotion, of course, Rebecca Allen left Decca for EMI. What difference did that make to your role, and what are your reflections on her time leading the label? Lewis: Becky and I worked together since I joined, in 2003, so we knew each other incredibly well. I loved working with her. I found her inspiring, very open, very positive, brilliant at leading the team. She just empowered people. When she went, it was a surprise, almost a surreal moment, and it was a challenge for Laura and I, because we had to sort of pick things up and retain the energy that Becky always brought, but also impose our own sense of culture and our own priorities in the sense of where Decca could be going. Mainly, it was an amazing moment for Becky, and also for Decca. I think the whole team felt, Wow, to get that job [President of EMI], coming through Decca, it made everyone feel like, you know, we tell a great story here; we’re a small, dynamic team who can compete with the best. Monks: Becky is such an effervescent

Diana Ross

people person, and that always helped with the evolution of Decca’s team. And she’s also been such an amazing mentor for me, as a woman in the music industry. I think while it was a bit of a shock, it was also quite a natural handover. I feel like we have just sped up the evolution that Becky started How do you think Decca is different these days, or perhaps different on the inside to how people imagined it might be from the outside? Monks: I used to have a poster on my wall, and I’d written on it, ‘Be Surprising’. I think that is at the core of a lot of what Decca does. We excel in classical music, we’ve got one of the most prestigious classical labels in the world, Decca Classics. We have Mercury KX, which is building an amazing roster within the alt classical/electro classical world. And we’re in the adult pop lane, where we have unique, international-facing artists. I think that is what Decca is great at: finding excellence, finding unique artists,

creating careers and building longevity for artists internationally. Lewis: What’s interesting is that when we celebrated the 90th anniversary, two years ago, we were reminded about elements of Decca’s story over that time, of adventure and innovation, that really did resonate with the culture and the character of the label today. We almost have a tradition of not being especially traditional, or perhaps conventional is the word. And we have to find really interesting ways of working with our artists, because some of the more conventional routes to market are perhaps areas that we spend less time in, like we’re not necessarily always all over pop radio, and we don’t always work with artists who set their sights solely in the top of the singles chart. It means you’ve got to ask a lot of your team, and I think that’s the thing that surprises people, the youth and the vitality at Decca, the sense of constantly looking at things from all angles and finding new approaches. 69

Steam Down

It’s about being innovative, flexible, enterprising and adventurous. Those are the sort of hallmarks of the culture that we’re trying to create. What’s the state of the relationship between two of Decca’s key genres, classical and jazz, and the streaming services? Monks: It’s incredibly exciting, and it’s wonderful to see all the DSPs engaging with different genres of music. Maybe initially, when they were trying to build their services, there’d be just one or two playlists in those areas, and we’d all be clamouring after editorial support from them. Now the conversations have moved more to being about partnerships, there’s a realisation that people need and love this music in their life. At the beginning of lockdown, for example, there was a huge upsurge in people listening to music for their peace of mind, and it was powerful. The services have matured and people’s understanding that they can discover

music of all genres on streaming has grown; it’s just a really exciting time and the opportunity is endless. Lewis: Some artists have grown up, and developed what they do, entirely within the streaming ecosystem, and they’re really innovative in that space. There are others who are having to redefine how they’re thinking about how

I saw some incredible stats recently showing that classics and jazz, are the second and third-fastest growing genres on streaming platforms, year-on-year. And it also showed that they’re attracting a younger audience than ever before. Some of the ideas about who might or might not be listening to this music have changed dramatically as a result of streaming. Because, actually, our genres, and the artists we work with, are incredibly important for the rich tapestry of listening around the world. If everything was all about big pop hits, the world would be a lot less colourful. Our job is to provide that colour, and to provide these spaces from which other artists can emerge. Take Jacob Collier, for example. He grew up in the jazz space, and he’s now working with some of the biggest pop artists in the world, because they love the angle that he’s taking on music.

“If everything was about big pop hits, the world would be a lot less colourful.”

they create and how they communicate. We’re talking to a number of our core classical artists, saying, rather than waiting two years or three years for an album, why not just have a constant outflow of material and look at your audience and your output in an entirely different way? We’re asking them to take risks, and I think that’s going to be really interesting.

What are some of the highlights of Q4 that you’d pick out? Monks: Well, for a start, it’s been a total thrill

INTERVIEW

Aurora

to work with Diana Ross, who is, of course, an absolute icon. The global storytelling that we’ve been able to do with Diana has just been so fantastic and the album [Thank You, released 5 November] is incredible. We continue to work with Andrea Bocelli and we recently put out a 10 year anniversary edition of a concert he did in Central Park. We’ve really enjoyed the growth in his online audience in the last year, especially since some of the initiatives he did at the beginning of COVID, including digital performances; that’s really paying back now with a very engaged online audience following his TikTok, watching his YouTube videos and listening to playlists of his on Spotify. We work with him just as we would any of our younger artists. Aurora is an incredible artist, and her fan base, I’ve never seen anything like it; they are obsessed with her, from Brazil to Japan. We couldn’t be busier with her internationally, and it keeps growing; she’s magical. There’ll be a new album at the start of the year. [Five-time Grammy winner] Jacob Collier will be completing his [four volume] Djessie project over the next 12 months. On the classical side, I could pick so

Freddie De Tommaso

many, because our roster is second to none, but I’ll mention a young man called Freddie De Tommaso, who seems to be potentially stepping into the very big shoes left by Luciano Pavarotti. And we couldn’t be happier that Gregory Porter has some new music coming, as part of a collection we’ll be putting out, and that he’s playing the Royal Albert Hall. We’ve missed him. He is like the uncle or older brother to every single person in this label. When he’s in London, everybody knows it, there are smiles on all the team’s faces. That’s what I mean about Decca, you go from a jazz singer to an opera star to an altpop princess – and you started at Diana Ross. But no new Ball & Boe! Monks: [Laughs] Yes, we’ll be doing a marketing push in December, but we sort of felt, how many times can you say Together Again, again? We did the Christmas record with them last year, and they’ve still got a long way to go with us, but for this Q4 we’re putting out their three records so far as a box set. Lewis: When I look at this Q4, it’s hard to see a greater line-up of global legends.

As well as Diana Ross, we’re doing a record with Brian Wilson. He’s going back to solo piano, to explore the melodies and ideas of original compositions that have basically defined 50 years of pop history. We’re working in a similar way with Richard Carpenter. And then, with our affiliates overseas, we’re working on a new record of Nina Simone remixes. And her influence will never ever diminish. We’re doing a record of symphonic duets with Nat King Cole, with guests like John Legend, we’re very excited about that. That’s the Hall of Legends if you like, but then at the end of the year we’ve got an EP from Steam Down, a cutting-edge UK jazz outfit with elements of grime in the mix. I’m particularly excited about them, I think they are right at the forefront of a whole new wave of the British jazz – and if you’ve been to one of their shows, it’s a quasi-religious experience. I hope that gives a sense of where we’re going, and of the scope of what we do at Decca, because that sort of defines our history. We’re the label that brought you Pavarotti and Solti’s Ring Cycle, but we also signed The Rolling Stones and David Bowie. n 71

L-R: Austin Daboh (Atlantic), Solomon Adesiyan (Trust It), Rich Castillo (Atlantic)

INTERVIEW

‘IRELAND IS GOING TO BECOME ONE OF THE TOP COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD FOR MUSIC’ Solomon Adesiyan is a new champion of Irish music, with his sights set on global success. He discusses the rise of Trust It Entertainment, why he signed a JV with Atlantic and the importance of being honest with artists...

ne of the greatest things about young executives working in music is often their bombastic ambition. Not yet jaded by the failure and disappointment that inevitably accompanies any level of success, they bound into the business, bright-eyed, with cups always half-full, and confidently plant their flags as leaders of the future. Trust It Entertainment’s Solomon Adesiyan does not disappoint. After signing a JV deal for his Irish label with Atlantic Records UK, he’s got world domination in his sights. Firstly, he wants to have 10-15 artists at the same level as the Dua Lipa and Ed Sheerans of the world. Then he’s planning on becoming the next Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. “I feel like I’m going to be in the top 1% of richest people in the world, God willing, by offering value, not just finessing,” he tells us. You heard it here first. Adesiyan, who has Nigerian parents, was born in the UK and moved to Ireland when he was two years old. He grew up in a small town in County Clare, later moving to Dublin to study drums and music at BIMM. Adesiyan’s interest in music stems from his mum’s musician side of the family, but his chosen career path was still a tough sell. “In Africa, music is not a career, it’s a hobby and my parents are very traditional. I’m male and the first-born so [was expected to be] a doctor, lawyer or engineer. It took a lot to convince my parents.” At college, he fell in love with the business side of music and at the same time opened a studio and started helping his fellow musicians with production and recording, filling a much-needed gap. “Before I got to Dublin, I thought the industry would be so cool, and when I got here I found that we had no community for black people and our music, which was crazy to me.” Eventually, what he was doing evolved into a label and management company and Trust It officially launched in 2016. Since then, the label has released music by local rap, hip-hop and drill artists, including A92, Andre Fazaz, Offica, AV9, Alicia Raye, BoyW1DR, Chuks, Evans Junior and J.B2. In 2017, Adesiyan and his friend, artist Sequence, also launched Ireland’s answer to Link Up TV, Dearfach TV. The channel’s first viral moment came courtesy of a performance by J.92, which blew up even further thanks to a collaboration with Russ Millions

and Chuks on Link Up, which currently has over 9m views on YouTube. The success caught the attention of Spotify and Adesiyan was tasked with creating the playlist Rap IE, which is how he met the now EVP of Atlantic UK, Austin Daboh (who was then at the streaming company). It was Universal that first offered Adesiyan a JV deal, he says, but he ultimately chose Atlantic because of his relationship with Daboh and Warner’s ambition. “Even though Universal had more money to offer me, I was more about the team and using less money to create bigger results and [Atlantic offered] what I felt like I needed to push the Irish scene,” he says. Discussing the motivation to get involved in Trust It from his side, Daboh says: “Solomon has been the main driving force behind the black music scene in Ireland, and, along with his Trust It team, has been leading the way for the culture to evolve and grow. He has an entrepreneurial mind, is ingrained in the culture and is respected and admired by artists and peers – and that’s exactly the type of person we want to work with at Atlantic.” Here, Adesiyan discusses his big ambitions, company ethos, and what he thinks music could learn from sport.

“If you’re loyal to me from day one, I will always remember you.”

What are your company principles? Do you have any rules that you always stick by? I’m against the whole ‘knock somebody down to get up’. I’ve grown up in a Christian family and have a lot of morals so I’m loyal to my people. If you’re loyal to me from day one, I will always remember you. With the Warner deal, I could have gotten more money if I’d gone with Universal but the fact that Austin gave me such a great opportunity at Spotify, for no reason, meant I did the deal with him. Instead of me taking new artists who I now have the leverage to work with, I want to use my budget to develop the artists that put their trust in me five years ago and are still with me now. I feel like collaboration and togetherness is the way forward. Unfortunately, we live in a kind of negative world where a lot of people want quick results, but if you’re looking for longevity, it’s better to have long-lasting relationships and be loyal to people. That approach is how I’ve been able to run Trust It — there are 73

other labels in Ireland that have more money than me but what has helped me from day one is the fact that I was friends with everybody so I was always able to ask for favours, even when I didn’t have the money. How do you approach artist development? I’m not a yes man. If your music is not good, in my opinion, I will not say it’s good. The majority of people are yes men who will tell you that your music is great and artists will just go through their careers not succeeding and getting frustrated [as a result]. Because of the fine line between music being a passion and the music industry being a business, people don’t really want to go into detail. But I take the music for what it is because I came from an intellectual background with music — gospel is one of the most intellectual [genres] in the world, as well as maybe jazz and classical. When I got to BIMM, I put the theory behind what I was doing and could break down a song or a beat into specifics. So when I’m taking an artist, if I see potential, maybe with their look, voice, songwriting ability, flow or the way they interpret a story, I will focus on their strength while we work on their weaknesses to make them as strong as their strength. I do it in a way that they know I am not against them, I am for them. But if the content ends up bad, just know that I am going to be honest with you. In the past, it didn’t work out the best for me because people took offence to it but now people just know that’s how I am.

is going to sound like that’. In London, if I did it, I would nearly be able to because there’s a cohesive sound going through the UK. And the ones who are not cohesive are making bigger waves — in the UK’s top 20 [contemporary black music acts], you have maybe 15 artists who are drill but the top 5, like Stormzy, Dave, J Hus and Fredo, are not drill and they don’t sound like each other. For me, I think Ireland is going to break past the UK and become one of the top countries in the world for music because of how diverse and musical we are. What would you change about the music industry and why? It would be good if the music industry was more like the sports industry and had capitalised to make sure that everybody’s getting paid well. Even in the lowest football league in the UK, players are probably getting paid better than minimum wage. I wish that the music industry had more leverage or financial structures and less greed so that everybody could make more money and people can actually focus on it. I see really talented artists in Ireland having to work a part time job and that’s crazy because if this was an average football player, he’d be paid some sort of wage that he could live off. It’s weird in music because unless you have companies behind you collecting your royalties, you might not get paid. How are you going to tell me that money that is mine and is owed to me, is just in the air, chilling? There are companies trying to attack money being lost in the music industry but it’s been a problem for way too long and it’s still an issue today. It doesn’t really make sense. Companies who have money, like Universal and Warner, should be investing into tech-style companies that solve music industry problems. Maybe they should stop trying to fight and compete with independent artists and each other and treat themselves as the Google, Amazon and Microsoft of the music industry and start investing in other labels and tech start-ups that solve problems. Warner doing this deal with me is helping to solve a problem in Ireland and maybe labels should do more of that. There are Sony and Universal [offices] in Ireland but they don’t sign acts, they are just marketing [international acts] into the territory. Music is only as big as the people at the top allow it to be.

“My main aim is to have 10-15 artists on the same level as Ed Sheeran or Dua Lipa.”

There’s a really strong black music scene here in the UK — what point of difference do the acts you’re working with in Ireland have? There’s not really any competition, in my opinion. Hare Squead were the first black group ever to be signed to a major label from Ireland, in 2016, and they were a big deal. They did the European tour with Dua Lipa, they had international success to the extent that GoldLink co-signed their song on his album, which became one of his biggest songs that year. If it wasn’t for Jessy Rose, who was having some mental health issues [and left the group in 2017], they would probably be as big as the top artists in the world right now. When we dropped the J.B2 and Chuks’ Link Up song with Russ Millions, it blew up in the UK and when Russ performed that song, everyone thought it was from a UK artist. A92’s Plugged In session with Fumez The Engineer is the biggest freestyle session right now in the UK. If I played you this music, you would not tell me this is Irish music, you would tell me this is good music and it’s different. The key to Irish success to me is how diverse we are at what we do. You cannot put any 10 Irish artists in a room and say, ‘This 74

What are your ultimate ambitions for Trust It Entertainment? Music is just the entry for myself as an entrepreneur. Trust It is one of my babies that will grow and it’s a great company but it’s not the only one I’m involved in. My main aim is to have 10 to 15 artists on the same level as Ed Sheeran or Dua Lipa in the world, not just doing Ireland or UK numbers, but doing international numbers. That will set a standard for Ireland and push for other Solomons to do their own deals and push the music scene forward. It’s all about the legacy for myself, Trust It and Ireland and then I’ll go on to greater things. n

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HIT-RATING A.I. ISN’T MEANT TO REPLACE A&R PEOPLE. IT’S FOR HUMANS TO USE AS A JUMPING OFF POINT Artifical Intelligence-in-music specialist Musiio will open a UK office at Tileyard North next year. Here, the firm’s founder and CEO Hazel Savage talks about how she believes AI technology should – and shouldn’t – be used... Artificial Intelligence (AI) is still a relatively new technology to most people in the wider world – from a practical perspective and for the music industry as a whole. As a non-coder I try to be the bridge between the latest in AI technology and the music industry – to demystify it to an extent, but also to be a steward for the use and application of such a technology – as best I can. Musiio was founded in January 2018. I met my co-founder, Aron Pettersson, at a deep tech incubator in Singapore. Whilst at the incubator we were surrounded by companies building blockchain technology, crypto, quantum computing and even direct-to-consumer e-commerce plays. And in the middle of it all was Aron and myself building the first ever deep-tech music company in Singapore. The term AI or Artificial Intelligence can bring on the immediate assumption of AIgenerated music or an ‘AI that can write music’. In the last five years there have been lots of companies building in this space, and AIgenerated music is certainly hugely interesting from a technical and academic point of view. But there haven’t been many successful implementations in the music industry to date, and at Musiio, we don’t operate in this space at all. Instead, we play purely in the descriptive AI category. We use AI to generate metadata tags, or we use fingerprinting techniques on audio to search other audio files (think of it like Google Image Reverse Search for audio). One of our latest technology advancements, which we are calling ‘Hit Potential’, works by giving a percentage score for likelihood of commercial success. What it is really doing is giving you a descriptor of whether a track 76

contains similarity to other successes. It isn’t meant to be used as an automated A&R person; it’s data for human beings to use as a jumping off point in a sea of the tens of thousands of tracks released every day. My personal definition of whether an AI is valuable and needed in any industry – most specifically, in my case, to the music industry, is if the answer is yes to one or both of two questions: 1. Is the AI performing a job that no-one else

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Ed Sheeran’s Bad Habits is the Xxxx UK’s biggest hit single of the year so far. Could AI have forecast it was going to be a smash?

wants to do? 2. Is the AI performing a job that no human being can physically do? I think descriptive AI fits this definition perfectly because manually tagging thousands of tracks is tedious and monotonous work, perfect for outsourcing to an AI. And when you start to get into volumes such as our client Beatstars, tagging 20,000 tracks a day, it wouldn’t be humanly possible to do. This frees people up to spend more time on the creative aspects of their job, ones I personally believe should not be automated using AI. As a company we have been working on an AI framework introduced by Rolls Royce called the Aletheia Framework, so keep an eye out for that full announcement later this year. The exciting thing about AI technology is that it is only going to get better. It will be able to understand more genres, it will be more customisable and it will be more affordable. I often compare it to websites. When websites first became a must-have, you needed to go to a developer and have them coded from scratch at great cost. Nowadays anyone can log onto Bandzoogle or Wix and get a site up and running

“AI frees people up to spend more time on the creative aspecs of their job.”

with no code experience and very little outlay. AI will likely take this same development path. At Musiio we already have drag and drop tools for people to use our AI. For example our selfservice Tag product is just seven cents (USD) to tag each track (no recurring costs). You just drag and drop the tracks in as easy as you would put something in Google Drive or Dropbox. I am also excited about the new breed of AI companies emerging. I think Audioshake, based in the States, is a fascinating example of a technology becoming viable. Source separation and stem creation tech has been around for years, but always with the trade-off being a huge loss in audio quality. Audioshake seems to have solved that issue: brilliant quality audio, true source separation for immediate instrumental versions. Hazel Savage is the CEO and Co-Founder of Musiio, which will become one of the inaugural tenants at Tileyard North. Due to open in summer 2022, Tileyard North will be a 135,000 square foot creative industries hub, based at Rutland Mills. It will be the UK’s largest creative community outside of London. To find out more, go to tileyardnorth.co.uk 77

Every Picture Tells A Story

Date: May 1, 2013 Location: Capitol Studios, Los Angeles, USA No matter where you go in the world, you’re bound to bump into the Irish. It was 2013, my first ever trip to LA, and my first visit to the iconic Capitol Studios. The occasion was the BPI Sync Licensing Mission and I was Head of PR for the record label trade body at the time. Everything was going well – insightful panels, experienced speakers, the infamous pub quiz. And then Gary Lightbody arrived. He had agreed to speak about the impact to Snow Patrol’s career of Chasing Cars featuring in the second season finale of Grey’s Anatomy. We were both standing in the Control Room of Studio A – home to recordings by Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole and countless others. Gary’s Northern Irish antennae detected my accent, we said hello, and I got a photo ‘for my mum’. Later that evening, at the annual Garden Party, I explained to him that I wanted to support the Northern Irish music sector more, and we discussed the work of the Oh Yeah Music Centre in Belfast, of 78

which he is a co-founder and Honorary President. Since that encounter with Gary, I’ve been on a journey with the music sector in our homeland. He and his business partner, Davy Matchett, recommended me for the board of Oh Yeah, and seven years later, I’m now the Vice Chair. And then last year, Gary and Davy became the first client of my new company, The Fourth Pillar, helping them to develop the music sector in Northern Ireland. Together, we’ve lobbied government, launched Music Connections, and are looking for meaningful ways to support the amazing talent we have on our shores. Long may our partnership continue. Formerly Head of Communications at the London-based music organisations PPL and BPI, Lynne Best is now Director of The Fourth Pillar, which offers strategic communications and policy advice to companies in the music and creative industries.

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