Event Report: Collaborative Masculinities

Acknowledgements Pathways2Equity is supported through the Women and Gender Equality Canada (WAGE) Feminist Response and Recovery Fund as part of the Women’s Program. Project number NA21745.

© McGill University, 2022

Recommended citation: Skahan, G. (2022). Report on Collaborative Masculinities: Youth-led and Indigenous-focussed approaches to challenge harmful gender norms & address GBV Virtual Dialogue. The Participatory Cultures Lab.

For more information, contact: Claudia Mitchell—Project Director, Distinguished James McGill Professor at claudia.mitchell@mcgill.ca.

Visit us at the following links Project Website: https://www.mcgill.ca/morethanwords/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MTWP2E Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mtw_p2e Twitter: https://twitter.com/MTW_P2E ISSUU: https://issuu.com/morethanwordsmedia

Pathways2Equity Project P2E (Pathways2Equity: Youth-led, Indigenous-Focussed, Gender Transformative, Arts-Based Approaches to Challenging Gender Norms in Addressing Gender-Based Violence) is a threeyear initiative (2021-2024) that builds on the work of More Than Words and Networks4Change.

More Than Words in Addressing Sexual and Gender-based Violence: A Dialogue on the Impact of Indigenous-focused Youth-led Engagement Through the Arts on Families and Communities started back in 2019 at 3 main sites in Treaty 6/The Traditional Homeland of the Métis/Saskatoon (SK), Rankin Inlet (NT) and Eskasoni on Cape Breton Island (NS). For the last couple of years this project was also aligned with work with girls and young women in South Africa (Networks for Change and Well-being).

Now these two Canadian projects, Pathways2Equity and More Than Words, come together.

Over the next years, groups of boys and young men will work alongside and collaborate with groups of girls and young women, in all their diversity, to disrupt harmful gender norms, challenge inequality, end violence and be free. Specific objectives for Pathways2Equity include foster leadership with Indigenous girls and young women, engage Indigenous boys and young men in work to end GBV, create local and culturally relevant dialogue and knowledge-sharing around the root causes of gender inequality and violence, and establish a P2E Youth Framework based on local and national engagement to share promising practices with communities across Canada.

This Report This report is on the first event that was held in the context of Pathways2Equity: Youth-led, Indigenous-Focussed, Gender-Transformative, Arts-Based Approaches to Challenging Gender Norms in Addressing GBV. This virtual dialogue took place on Thursday, February 24, 2022 on Zoom and had 75 people registered. Sarah Flicker and Claudia Mitchell were the facilitators.

The following report provides a summary of the event, including some good practices for engaging men and boys in gender-based violence prevention. It provides some a rationale for why it is important to include men and boys in this work and includes the speaker biographies as well as a transcription of the dialogue.

Summary The Collaborative Masculinities Virtual Dialogue was thought-provoking and moving. We discussed the opportunities and complexities of calling in Indigenous young men and boys to the movement to end gender-based violence (GBV). Indigenous youth and adult allies who are actively engaged in the movement to address GBV through community research, artmaking, activism and intergenerational mentoring & auntieship spoke, and identified some of the challenges and strategies to prevention and intervention around these issues.

Our event speakers spoke about how settler colonialism has had a major impact on Indigenous conceptions of gender and sexuality. This is important foundational knowledge for those seeking to engage men and boys in this work, and these are vital conversations to have with all youth doing this work. The criminalization of Indigenous men, the elimination of traditional gender roles, the intolerance and violence toward two-spirit people, and the upheaval of traditional support systems have all resulted from colonialism and are major issues that need to be considered in doing work around engaging boys and men in gender-based violence.

Speakers spoke to the ways in which engaging men and boys in this work can be challenging because masculinity is often associated with not being emotional, which can prevent men from being in touch with their feelings. Engaging in this work can be deeply emotional and upsetting, and so involving men requires careful consideration of how to broach these topics and provide spaces and support for processing difficult realities, in particular when we consider that men sometimes occupy both the role of the perpetrator and victim of violence.

Other challenges and strategies identified by speakers concerned how the small size of the communities can act as a barrier to youth getting involved, due to a fear of judgement or a lack of support from family. Several speakers also stressed the importance of having not only separate spaces based on gender to talk about these issues, but also the importance of bringing groups together to talk about these issues. While separate spaces can be useful for processing raw emotions and experiences, ultimately community members need to be united to address these issues in long-lasting and sustainable ways.

Finally, our event speakers also highlighted that this work takes time and requires investing in building trusting relationships. A central message to take home from this event was how important it is to create spaces that center youth, provide unconditional support and where genuine connection is prioritized to create empowering learning and growing spaces for everyone.

Why Young Men and Boys?

Men and boys are recognized as having a crucial role to play in gender-based violence prevention. Aside from being the majority of those who perpetrate acts of gender-based violence, men also have the potential to act as impactful allies in addressing this widespread and profoundly damaging issue. When men themselves are actively participating in questioning harmful gender norms and the root causes of inequalities, they are acting as role models for other men to do so as well. Engaging men in gender-based violence prevention not only decreases their likelihood for perpetrating it, but also increases their likelihood for stepping up to intervene when it happens. The ripple effects of such actions hold great possibilities for a more gender-just future.

You can read more on Indigenous masculinities and men’s involvement in gender-based violence prevention here: Collaborative masculinities: Indigenous young men building positive masculinities and engaging in gender-based violence prevention: A review of literature, approaches and programs

About the Speakers

During this event, Indigenous youth leaders shared knowledge and explored ideas related to the involvement of boys and young men in their ongoing work to address GBV and create safe communities. Adult allies responded to the topics and priorities brought forward by youth and shared their experience in supporting youth work.

Youth Speakers Haily May Ussak- GET ART, Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Haily May Ussak is a mentor in the Girls Expressing Themselves Through Art Program and is facilitating workshops with younger girls and boys as part of more Than Words and pathways2Equity Julia Ussak - GET ART, Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Julia is also a GET ART mentor and workshop facilitator. Alongside her cousin, Haily May, she leads youth through culturally rich arts-based programming.

Gabby Daniels - Young Indigenous Women's Utopia, Treaty 6 Gabby is Plains Cree, Southern Paiute and a Young Indigenous Women's Utopia youth leader.

She is currently studying at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, but is never too far from her fam in Treaty 6, the Traditional Homeland of the Métis (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan).

Adult Speakers Elizabeth Cooper - Research Scientist, Saskatchewan Population Health Evaluation Assistant Professor, University of Regina Elizabeth Cooper (Settler Scholar) is a Research Scientist with the Saskatchewan Population Health Evaluation and Research Unit, and an Assistant Professor in Kinesiology and Health Studies at the University of Regina on Treaty 4 territory and Métis homelands. Her work is strength-based and community-driven. She focuses on working with communities to find ways to promote health and wellbeing through arts-based and cultural practice on sensitive topics that often lead to negative health outcomes such as suicide, intimate partner violence, and health risk behaviours.

Morris Green - Health Education Consultant, Halifax, Nova Scotia Morris Green is a health education consultant who has worked with teenagers for 40 years across a wide range of youth health issues, including injury prevention, physical activity, and healthy eating. His most recent work focuses on the pressures and expectations around masculinity and their impact on the health of young men. He retired from the Nova Scotia

Department of Health and Wellness in 2017 where he worked as the Coordinator of Youth Health. While working in government he created Guys Work in partnership with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. Guys Work is a school-based, and evidence-based health promotion initiative designed to shift attitudes around masculinity norms. Morris Green has an undergraduate degree in physical education from Dalhousie University in Halifax, and a graduate degree in science from Columbia University in New York City.

Chris Gilham - Associate Professor, St. Francis Xavier University Dr. Chris Gilham has been working in education for over 25 years now. He loves teaching and working with others to create, implement and evaluate practical, school-based mental health programming for educators and students. He taught grades 3 to 9 in public schools in Tokyo, Windsor, Ontario, and Calgary. He was a Mental Health and Behaviour Consultant with the Calgary Board of Education for 5 years. While a PhD student and teaching his first Bachelor of Education course at the University of Calgary, he was nominated by his students for the Outstanding Teaching Award. Several years later he would be nominated again by Master’s students at StFX for the Outstanding Faculty Teaching Award, which he received in 2019. He teaches courses related to programming for students with different, often complex needs; mental health literacy; critical research literacy and the philosophy of education. Chris is currently engaged in SSHRC-sponsored research on mental health literacy for educators, as well as Nova Scotia Status of Women-sponsored research on boys-specific groups as part of gender transformative work.

Robert Henry - Assistant Professor, University of Saskatchewan Robert Henry, PhD, is Métis from Prince Albert, Saskatchewan and is an Assistant Professor at the University of Saskatchewan in the Department of Indigenous Studies. Robert’s research areas include Indigenous street gangs and gang theories, Indigenous masculinities, Indigenous and critical research methodologies, youth mental health and visual research methods.

Working closely with community partners, Robert works to create knowledge mobilization outcomes that reflect community needs and wants. He’s published a photovoice narrative collection with Indigenous male gang members titled Brighter Days Ahead (2013) and has recently submitted another collection in partnership with Indigenous females and their involvement in street gangs.

Linda Liebenberg - Researcher & Evaluator, Halifax, Nova Scotia Linda Liebenberg is a leading researcher and evaluator with a core interest in children and youth with complex needs, and the communities they live in. Her work explores the promotion of positive youth development and mental health through civic engagement and community development. As a key component of this work, Linda reflects critically on how best to conduct research and evaluations with children and their communities, including participatory artsbased methods; sophisticated longitudinal quantitative designs; and the design of measurement instruments used with children and youth. Linda has presented internationally and published extensively on these topics of research and youth.

Practices Identified for Engaging Young Men and Boys in Gender-based Violence Prevention Create separate spaces for boys and young men and girls and young women and also explicit opportunities for them to come together.

Intentionally creating groups where youth of the same gender can come together can be productive when trying to engage young men around gender-related issues. These separate groups are spaces where youth can process raw experiences and emotions. Discussing these issues in mixed gender groups is vital as well, however starting these conversations separately and coming together later can make it easier when all genders eventually get together to talk about these issues.

Use intentional strategies to challenge patriarchal norms that dictate that boys and young men can't or shouldn't show emotions.

The notion that men can’t or shouldn’t show emotions is one of numerous harmful gender norms that exist. Engaging men in gender-based violence work will likely bring up a lot of feelings and it is vital that men have the space to show these emotions. It is important to take the time to create safe spaces where men can express themselves. Acknowledge how difficult this work is – and find alternative ways to get men to express themselves, such as journaling, or creating a post-it wall. And finally, prioritize relationship building with youth so they feel comfortable expressing themselves.

“Adults allies also need to know that you can’t just rush into things. Some people always forget that, because they want to get it done within like an hour. But it takes time to open up, especially for people that never talk about what they are experiencing.”

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Gabby Daniels

Challenge top-down academic researching and youth work norms by centering youth.

When youth are at the centre of youth work, everyone benefits. Take the time to get to know each other, have fun, and enjoy yourselves. Ask youth how they want to be treated in the space, and how they want to do things. And importantly, model the respect and authenticity you hope to see in them in order to build trust and create empowering spaces where knowledge and experiences can be used to heal communities.

“Part of the way that I try to work with young men, in those spaces, is just to say “your life is your life and it’s been difficult, let's try and work where you are at, and why don’t you use your knowledge to help other young men, young boys so that they don’t have to make the same decisions that you had to make or that others can have that understanding so we can actually make some changes beforehand.”’ - Robert Henry

GET ART’s (Rankin Inlet) Additional Contribution The youth from Rankin Inlet were limited in their participation in this virtual dialogue due to unstable internet connection but they generously contributed some thoughts after the event.

What do boys and young men need to know in your community?

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They need to learn how to hunt, skin caribou, muskox, siksik, nanuq (keeping themselves busy, enriching their culture) That males and females can work together; we have their back Elders can teach young boys the importance of surviving out on the land and hunting Boys and their friends can get involved in a program so they have memories for life where they learned important land skills and which would also be useful in future situations.

What difference can more engagement from boys make?

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They would learn more about Inuit culture and their focus would be on that They would know how to help better They would be more comfortable with themselves (if they’re shy, if they’re anxious); it would strengthen their identity; they would be able to teach their younger siblings

Are there challenges to involving young men in violence prevention work?

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Some grew up in violent homes and don’t know how to control their anger and they might think it’s right though there are better ways to control it If their parents drink alcohol, they’re going to think it’s normal At schools, they always say to tell an adult but it can be hard to open up to guidance counsellors or teachers because sometimes it goes in one ear and out the other Some may be worried about what parents are going to think. If parents are abusive, they may not support you or want you to learn about how to stop violence Men may be shamed by other people and afraid to come out about certain things for fear of the backlash from religious family members or homophobic people in the community

What can we learn from existing programs and projects - There’s counseling available but not any existing projects that are currently run specifically to address GBV - There aren’t enough programs to even learn from – it’s a concern!

How do we ensure young women and 2spirit youth feel safe and heard as we make more space for young men?

- Post inspirational flyers/posts for women and 2spirit youth on Facebook or posters around the community or on social media.

- Run women’s programs at the same time as men’s or combine programs for all genders - Run programs specifically for women and 2spirit; give them a safe space to be How do we engage Indigenous young men in gender-transformative youth work?

- Show videos of bad examples of using violence and control and also good examples of healthy relationships - Explain what life was like in the past and how it is now (with sharing responsibilities); difference with tasks for males and females in the past (ways of sewing, hunting) - Start the conversation when children are young; show them different family dynamics - Rape - teens can get raped if their partners don’t have their consent yet. They can get pressured until they give in, especially if they are intoxicated and they can be scared to say no. They can trap themselves inside and won’t talk to others about it even if they’re ready. They don’t want to talk about the past. If they don’t bring it up to their partner, it can keep happening

What critical issues are Indigenous boys and young men facing today?

- Losing our culture, young boys are getting more into alcohol and drugs than going out on the land with their parents and grandparents - Getting into alcohol and drugs due to broken relationships, abuse from parents, expectations, and pressures from family – a way to detach from the world - Peer pressure (getting into bad habits) - Afraid to come out with their true sexual identity - Societal pressure of what a male should be like

Transcription

Emily Booker: I want to start by recognizing that I am joining today from the shared territory of the Squamish, Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh Nations. Additionally, I want to recognize that the McGill Based implementation team is joining from Tiohtià:ke or Montréal, which is Kanien’kehá:ka territory. I would like to take this opportunity to invite you all to share in the chat the different territories you are joining from. If you don’t know which Nations’ lands you are on you can use a link that we are going to share in the chat (native-land.ca). This website can be a good place to start if you are beginning to learn about the different territories you are joining from, but it isn’t perfect. So, make sure you follow up this website with additional research. I am seeing all the different places people are joining from which is amazing. One of the great things about zoom is how we can come together from so many different places at once. It is also important to acknowledge that while zoom is bringing us together today it is also a platform that privileges some voices others. Notably, individuals without access to technology or reliable internet are unable to participate in this conversation. Additionally, some people might have smart phones, laptops and WIFI but they don’t have a safe space from which they can log on from, and so they are also unable to participate in conversations happening over Zoom. With all that being said, I am very excited to hand this back over to Claudia to get the conversation started.

Claudia Mitchell- Thanks Emily and really welcome to this conversation, this dialogue this afternoon, what we are calling “Collaborative Masculinities”. We are delighted to have so many people join us today. And we’re very excited about the speakers, we have youth who have been participating in various projects, Indigenous youth, linked to the various studies that we are going to talk about from Rankin Inlet, Eskasoni, from Treaty 6. We have speakers coming from Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Quebec, Ontario and really the idea of bringing together groups of people who are really interested and want to further the idea of change and thinking about how young people are already doing so much of this work and how can we support them.

This event is also very special because it is kind of the launch of a new project called Pathways 2 Equity, I always to look up- we always come up with these long titles and I can’t remember them- Pathways 2 Equity: Youth-led Indigenous focused gender-focused, art-based transformative approaches to challenging norms in address GBV. This is a new project funded

by Women and Gender Equality and it builds on another project called More Than Words, which is also funded by Women and Gender Equality and then picks up on and builds on work that we have been doing since 2013 called Networks for Change: Girl-Led from-the-ground-up Policy Making to Address Gender-Based Violence in Canada and South Africa. I think the piece cutting across all of this is to think about how young people themselves are leading in this work and how project funds can support them to do this work. The earlier projects of MTW and N4C

were girl-led and girl-focussed and one of the pieces that came out of these projects was a Girlfesto from 2018 where girls and young women came together and said “we know we have to be working with boys and young men and that we need allies, we all need to be working together”. So this is very much informed by the work and taking it into a very exciting direction and as I just noted the projects- in Rankin Inlet and the girls who are coming from there and the youth in Eskasoni and the girls and young women in Treaty 6 have all been part of so many different components of these projects and so tonight or today we are going to hear much more from them and what they think needs to happen in terms of change and then we have invited various community leaders and researchers. You are going to hear from them in a minute and you’ll get proper introductions. Really to say the next 80 minutes or so is really for us to get to talk and learn together, we will spotlight the speakers and as Emily said any comments or suggestions, please put in the chat box or the Q&A and we will keep coming back to them. This is launching a new learning study and with so many new people part of this conversation and part of this dialogue, we have a lot to go forward with. I am going to thank Leann Brown, Grace Skahan and Emily Booker for so much work they have put into this, just in case we run out of time at the end. So, thank you, Leann, Grace and Emily for pulling this all together, and I am now going to turn it over to Sarah Flicker from York University who is going to be facilitating the dialogue tonight. She is going to introduce the speakers. But I want to say a little bit about Sarah, she is a York researcher chair in community-based participatory research in the Faculty of Environmental and Urban Change at York University. She has amazing programs, this woman leads in engagement of youth and other actors in environmental issues, sexual and reproductive justice. She’s led everything you could imagine around communitybased methodologies. She has worked across Canada and in South Africa. I have had the joy of working with Sarah dating back, I think it might be to 2008, with two CHIR projects that Sarah led, “Taking Action 1” and then “Taking Action 2”. And then we moved in to working together as Sarah was a co-investigator on N4C and the MTW and now P2E. So, we are in very good hands with Sarah. I would not embark on anything without being in Sarah’s camp. So, Sarah, thank you for joining in tonight and we will turn it over to you. Thank you.

Sarah Flicker- Thank you! Thanks everyone for coming and Claudia for your kind words, I am so excited to be here tonight and having this conversation with you all. When we were organizing this event and thinking about this event, we wanted to start by having a conversation with our fantastic young people who are really leading the way and helping us think about how we can address GBV and gender-norms and challenge gender-norms in and with Indigenous communities. I am really really excited to be joined today by Jennica, Hailey and Julia in Rankin Inlet. Hi guys. As well as Gabby Daniels who I believe is in Las Vegas but is originally from Treaty 6 and has been working with the Young Indigenous Women’s Utopia (YIWU) and is a good friend of mine. So, welcome you fabulous women! We wanted to start by giving you guys the first word. We really want to hear about the things you have been seeing and doing about

addressing GBV in your communities and what do you think the roles are for young men? Who wants to go first? Jennica is your crew ready? Or maybe Gaby go for it.

Gaby Daniels- In my community, especially with our Young Indigenous Women’s Utopia, we have slowly started to bring men and boys into our group. You know we had painting sessions when we made our mural and we actually have a male in the group now; Zach, I forget his last name, I am sorry! We have been inviting a drummer to presentations we have. He drummed for us when we won our Indspire award. We made care packages and gave them out to people, I think boys too. I think that is it. But you said just in our community in general right?

Yeah that’s pretty much it. That I can think of right now. I wrote some stuff down before.

Sarah- That’s okay. Gaby, can you tell the group, I don’t think everyone here knows what YIWU is all about. Do you think you could share a little bit about your group and what you guys have been up to?

Gaby- Yes so, Young Indigenous Women’s Utopia, it’s a long word so we just call it YIUW, is a girl-led group on Treaty 6 territory in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. We’re a group of, I don’t even know many now, because there is group 1 and group 2 so combined there is a lot of us. But I am originally from group 1, we started back this is probably 5 years ago now. It seems like a long time. When I first started, I was 14 and what we do in the group is talk about GBV, racism you know stuff that young girls face on the streets in Saskatoon and just in general as Indigenous people. We’ve written a book, and I think there is another book coming out, I am probably not supposed to say that. We have made cellphilms that have won awards, we won an award with Indspire, we hold, what’s the word, group discussions and workshops and invite people from the community. We have done training for harm reduction, because actually the area we are mostly based in is the west side of our town and there is a harm reduction facility that you can go there to, you know, I’m out of words right now. We have just done a lot of stuff with our group and we have a lot more coming! I am not currently at home in Treaty 6 territory, I am in Las Vegas, doing my schooling, so I try and zoom in whenever I can and join in group discussions like this to still feel a part of the group and present on my behalf. Sorry if that was jumbled.

Sarah- No that was perfect Gaby. And Gaby is very modest, but her group is amazing and they have been doing amazing work for a really long time and Gaby is an incredible youth leader. I wanted to ask you Gaby, your group has been meeting a group of girls for a long time and I am wondering, now that we are starting this group for boys, do you think it is a good idea to have

separate boys and girls groups or do you think we should be bringing boys and girls together?

What do you think is the value of just having a space for just girls or just boys to have these conversations?

Gaby- Well definitely, I think boys should be able to have their own space with stuff they want to share that has happened or that they want to talk about. And girls should have their own space, and have two different groups, one main group. You know kind of go into break out rooms. I think that is a really good idea because I think we would all get along anyways, but yeah make sure you kind of, it’s good to have safe spaces, so boys with the boys and girls with the girls. You talk, you share and then you come together as one, yeah I think it’s always good to have your own spaces. I know some boys probably wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing what they have gone through or what they want to talk about with the girls. And I know that is the same for the girls to. So, yeah again, just safe spaces. Two different groups, but one as together.

Sarah- Awesome. I see our Rankin Inlet crew is back, welcome back guys! How are you all doing today?

Hailey May- Good.

Jennica- Yeah, we are doing well, unfortunately, our internet is pretty bad, so we keep disconnecting and reconnecting.

Sarah- Well we are so glad to have for whatever part of the conversation you are able to make.

Can you tell us a little bit about what you guys have been up to in terms of addressing GBV in your community?

Julia- So the program we have been doing so far, it’s like, we have been teaching the young girls what we do in our culture and teaching them more about our culture. Because I feel like our culture is fading away, so me and Hailey we have been trying to teach them more about thelike their family and everything by using art.

Sarah- I love that! And you guys do such beautiful, wonderful work. I am a huge fan. I am wondering, what do you think is next, how do you think we should be involving young men in the conversation and how do you think that will be different than the kinds of work you guys are doing?

Hailey May- I think we should be involving boys because not all boys like the same things and not everybody is taught our culture. Because more and more parents, they aren’t really teaching them as much, so were trying to take that and …

Sarah- I think our friends are frozen again, um, well, back to Gaby then. Gaby, I am going to put you back on the hot seat. And as I am, Gaby I am going to give you the question to think about and then I am going to invite other people to check-in in the chat, so hold on to the question in your head. And the question is really about, what do you think some of the challenges are about in engaging boys and young men in talking about gender-based violence. So, you think about that question and then I’m going to invite anyone who has a question for any of these fabulous young women to put it in the chat as Gaby reflects on some of those challenges. So, go for it Gaby.

Gaby- Okay, I think some of the biggest challenges, I am not a male I wouldn’t know but I think, a huge challenge is males are always perceived as being tough and having no emotions. You know they are not supposed to show emotions, so it can be hard maybe for them to share because no one will take them seriously or listen to them. So that will definitely be hard. It was hard for girls to do that to so you can just imagine as a male and if there are any males in the chatbox, I am sure they can kind of agree, because they are supposed to be tough and strong and they are not supposed to cry just show emotion- anything, so that’s a think a huge challenge, I think just for anyone but men in general too, males.

Sarah- How about you guys up North, what do you think are going to be the hard parts of engaging young men?

Rankin Inlet Zoom Frozen

Sarah-Ugh so frustrating they have so much to say and so much to share.

Hailey May- Some challenges that would be hard… the challenges in involving young men or boys in this are…

Rankin Inlet Zoom Video Turns Off

Hailey May- I think the challenges for involving the boys in programs is how they grew up in homes, with abusive ways and if their parents drink or do alcohol, that will be really challenging for the boys. Because they have so much emotions that they are trying to hide and they don’t want it coming out because they don’t want the past or the present, they are going to worry about what their parents will think, if they are attending a program about if/how to deal with people and how to deal with drinking alcohol or something like that and preventing abuse.

Sarah- So what do you guys think that adult allies can do to support young men in your communities. What are some strategies that maybe the community can wrap around to support young men in talking about and thinking about gender-based violence? Do you guys have any ideas of what kinds of supports might be good?

Jennica- Sorry you cut off, could you repeat that question?

Sarah- Sure, the question is what should adult allies, like adults in your community, what do they need to know to better support work with boys and young men or young women too.

What should adults do to help support work around GBV in your community?

Julia- To know that kids, some kids are shy and don’t really want to open up about things, and maybe help them to get comfortable talking about their past or something like that.

Sarah- that is a great point. Lots of us are really shy to talk about these issues. They are hard to talk about. Gaby do you have any ideas?

Gaby- Yes, okay with our group one of the best things that we could do to break a shell was journaling, anyone can kind of enjoy journaling. Unless you don’t like writing or talking in general. But it’s really easy just to spill your thoughts onto a page and you can keep it private

but when you do get to that group discussion you can kind of just have your notes. It kind of makes it just a little bit easier. And that’s what I do hold ups notes I have notes right now because I don’t like going into stuff without guidelines, I hate just feeling rushed, so I like to write things out. And then when you go into that discussion or talk you just kind of read off the page and it’s not word for word, but just look at stuff and bring that up. But adult allies also need to know that you can’t just rush into things. Some people always forget that because they want to get it done within like an hour. But it takes time to open up, especially for people that like never talk about what they are experiencing or a topic. So yeah, just know that it takes time. Also be supportive, no matter what, be there for them, whoever you are talking to or whoever you are having your discussion with. Be mindful of what people experience, of their home life or you know school. And open your eyes just to see what [unintelligible] the males of your community and what you can kind of do to help. Those are just kind of some of my ideas.

You could use the same for girls too, it goes both ways. So yeah, I just kind of always had that idea in my head it goes both ways, so yeah.

Sarah- Awesome. Okay very important question for everybody, if you are going to have a meeting with a group of boys, what kind of snacks should you bring? What is important on the snack front? Any ideas?

Gaby- Um chips? At our group, we always- oh make a snack wall! That’s what we did, oh my God, so in our first days of our group we had a snack wall, and we would get little post-it notes.

You would write snack wall, and everyone gets a post-it, I mean you can use as many as you want. You write your snack, and you stick it on the wall. And everyone feels comfortable. I know some people just don’t want to ask for stuff, I am that kind of person where I just can’t, I can’t swallow my pride and ask for something. So, writing whatever you want on the sticky note and no one is going to know if you asked for it anyways. It doesn’t matter if you do it, but it is a good way for people to get engaged. Get sticky-notes and make a snack wall. I say chips and I always put granola bars on mine and strawberries and pudding.

Sarah- Love it. How about you guys in Rankin? What are the must-have snacks if you are going to have a group of young guys come?

Hailey May- Maybe some cookies and some [unintelligible]. Something healthy, something unhealthy…

Julia- Salads

Sarah- Salads, I love it! Well one of the things I have learned, I have a lot of brothers, is that teenage boys eat way more food than you think is humanly possible to eat. And Chris is saying Doritos [from the chat]. Well, there you go, there are our snacks. You guys, I have loved having these conversations. Are there any other burning questions from the crowd or from the audience that these young women can help us think about or help us address before we move this panel along to our next cohort. Any last questions that anyone wants to ask? We have asked about lots of important details. Is there anything else, Gaby, Jennica, Julia, Hailey, you would like to share as a last bit of wisdom before we move on?

Gaby- Thank you guys for inviting me I feel really special that I get to present on YIWU behalf, even when I’m far from home. I enjoy being on a big zoom call with a bunch of people, it makes me feel business-y and I feel really happy. So, thank you guys for inviting me, I can’t wait to see the other half.

Sarah- Amazing. Rankin, any last bits of advice?

Jennica- I think they are just really excited here, Hailey and Julia, to start programming for the boys. Because they understand the importance of including the boys, not just the girls, with different topics, like they said, reclaiming their culture and learning more about their identities.

Sarah- Amazing. Well, we are so glad that you lead the way this evening/afternoon, and we are going to expand our circle and welcome some adults to our panel and hear from a group of wonderful adults and allies and scholars and academics who are doing incredibly work across the country supporting young people in addressing GBV. So, I am going to briefly introduce this incredible crew of people. We have Elizabeth Cooper who is a research scientist and assistant professor at the University of Regina. Welcome Elizabeth, it is so nice to see you again. Morris Green is here, a Health Education Consultant in Halifax, Nova Scotia, who has been running “Guys Work” for over 10 years in high schools across Nova Scotia. Welcome, Moe! Chris Gilham, an associated professor from St Frances Xavier University who collaborates with Moe on Guys Work and researches boys-specific groups as part of gender-transformative work. I can’t wait to hear all about your research and your scholarship. A warm welcome as well to Robert Henry, an assistant professor at the University of Saskatchewan. He is Métis from Prince Albert, Saskatchewan and his research focuses on Indigenous street life, gang theories and Indigenous masculinities. And Robert, Jenn Altenberg says hello! We had a lovely chat this afternoon and she was very excited you were going to be on this panel today and she told me

to give you a big warm virtual hug from her. And last not but not least we have the wonderful Linda Liebenberg, researcher and evaluator from Halifax, Nova Scotia who collaborates on the P2E and The Way Forward Healthy Masculinity Training Program. So welcome, scholars and experts and youth supporters, we are so excited to have you here. We are wondering first if you have any reflections on any of the brilliant pieces of wisdom that our youth shared with us this afternoon? What resonated with you? What excited you?

Elizabeth- I am just thinking about snacks now. I love that post-it note idea, I have post-it notes everywhere. My little desk is covered with post-it notes, I have different colours of post-it notes but none of them are a snack wall. But I like that, it’s a gentle way to get people talking and not putting anyone on the spot and not putting any pressure on. There is no right and no wrong answers. And I just like that idea, like how do we create a really welcoming space where people feel like they matter, and they are heard. I think that is really fantastic and I absolutely love that, and not only because I love post-it notes.

Sarah- I mean I love post-it notes and I love snacks, so really it’s like the marriage of two wonderful things. Any other feedback, thoughts, or reactions from any of you on of those questions? Linda please and then Moe.

Linda- I really really appreciated what Gaby had to say about separate groups for young women and young men. I know in Eskasoni, we have also worked with a third group of young people who identify as LGBTQ2+ Youth, and all three groups work really well together in some spaces, but I think especially in the early days and in those research phases, really digging down into issues and questions, those separate groups are really important. Because, as Gaby said, people need a safe space where they can process things and so from our experiences in Eskasoni I can’t emphasize that enough.

Sarah- And Moe, your thoughts?

Moe- Yeah, I would echo what Linda said about the importance of building that safe space, and Gaby was right on too when she mentioned about the timeline and just being patient and you will get there. You are on their timeline; they aren’t on your timeline, so you really have to kind of listen to them and go with the flow.

Sarah- Amazing, well you all do such interesting, fabulous work with young men and I was wondering if you could each share some of the tricks or things you do to help young men feel safe and engage in these conversations, these hard conversations. Maybe if you could tell us, give us a little teaser about your research and some of the strategies that you use to work with young Indigenous men. Chris maybe do you want to go first?

Chris-Yes, thank you. So the work that I have had the privilege of doing has mainly been alongside Moe and following his lead and wisdom with the guys work here in Nova Scotia. So we were recently able to run guys groups in schools across Nova Scotia with grade seven and eight guys and we reached over 150 of these young men. One of the things I would say that has been a real shift for me, and new learning for me is the idea that this work does not look like the work you might see in a school classroom. The work looks more like are people sitting in circle and there is a great deal of listening and acknowledgement of what the boys have to say and their feelings. There is a great deal of questioning to help them continue the dialogue, there are no PowerPoints, unfortunately there are no sticky notes Elizabeth, there is no materials, there is no pencils or pens, there is no stickers and there is no handouts. It is just guys together in a circle talking and listening to one another and what I’ve seen is a really safe space that is created for them that is kind of separate from the “we’re going to study something, we are going to acquire some new knowledge”, there is something authentic about that space. Thank you for letting me share a little bit.

Sarah- Yeah that’s wonderful. Moe can you share a little bit too, on how do you create that space, how do you welcome the young men to open up and talk and share their experiences?

Moe- I am almost hesitant to say that I drop the F-bomb a lot. There are some pretty basic ground rules for circles, we want the guys to known respect is a two-way street and it’s a confidential space and their voices are so so important. And I live in a world where most people don’t listen to young people so it’s very important to protect each other’s voices in the circle.

And make sure every kid, every youth knows that everybody’s voices in the circle is equal to everyone else’s. And sometimes you just find that the space is there almost immediately and sometimes it does take a little bit longer for some people. And then the other piece that we have heard a lot, especially from our African-Nova Scotian youth, is adult disclosure. So, the youth are not the only ones sharing, there is also some sharing coming from the adult facilitators as well. So the Black Nova Scotians have told us, who of course have been you know growing up in this province unfortunately facing systemic racism in health, education and justice, say it really helps kind of bridge something when the facilitators are more authentic and share something about themselves, especially when they are white facilitators.

Sarah- That is really thoughtful, great advice and beautiful insight about the importance of that intergenerational dialogue. Robert, do you want to share? I know your internet is less stable, but I was wondering if you are able to share a little bit about your research and the strategies you’ve used to engage young men?

Robert- Sure yeah, thanks everybody. I am sorry I actually came on a little late, I was in a community meeting all day talking about violence and street gangs in a couple northern First Nations communities. So real quick, I’m Métis from Prince Albert, so a lot of the work I do and how I engage comes from how I was brought up and trying to build healthy relationships with individuals and what does that mean. And not trying to assume that I know where individuals are coming from, so working with individuals in street gangs and in street lifestyles, it takes a long time to build up trust that I am not there to take from them. I am not trying to steal from them. So working through a process that some people call the 4 Rs and that I call the 5 Rs of relational accountability. Looking at building respect, relevance, reciprocity, and responsibility and what does that mean. And so, in doing that, what we do is we individualize processes.

We’re not saying do that for everybody but rather this is the process on how we build up with everyone together, one at a time. So, I think that is part of the way that I try to work with young men, in those spaces, is just to say “your life is your life and it’s been difficult, lets try and work where you are at, and why don’t you use your knowledge to help other young men, young boys so that they don’t have to make the same decisions that you had to make or that others can have that understanding so we can actually make some changes beforehand”. Trying to work together with them. I think that is the biggest thing, how do we empower young men to feel safe? How do we empower them to feel vulnerable and speak about different things? How do we make sure that it is ethical, and what I mean by that is for a lot of young Indigenous males, research isn’t a safe space because they have always been categorized, prodded and picked apart. So how do we reframe that so it is more of an empowering space where their stories, their knowledge can actually go about healing and empowering their community. So I’ll just leave it at that for now. Hopefully it is coming across, I am not sure, I see everybody stopped so I am not sure if I am frozen or whatever. But let's just say it was the greatest thing you ever heard if I froze.

Sarah- You did beautifully, we heard all of it and there were so many brilliant nuggets of great advice in there. And you know beautiful questions you were posing so thank you. Elizabeth, how do you engage young men in your research? What strategies do you use?

Elizabeth- So I am wearing one of my sweatshirts today, it’s from British Columbia. So I was working with Métis youth and Sto:lo youth in British Columbia a couple years ago. And it says “expect respect” on it and it says it in Sto:lo which I am not even going to try and pronounce and underneath it says stop bullying in its tracks. And of course, yesterday was Pink Shirt Day, rights. But I love this, that idea that the community made this shirt, and the community sold this shirt and the money went back to the community. By wearing it I feel a little bit of connection to the youth I met who designed it. And thinking about that, expecting respect and I expect that if I am working with youth, they come in with a level of respect. Like I give them, I hold respect for them, with the arms out, the hands up, right? Hands up to these youth. And that made a big difference, coming in and saying “Okay so what are you we going to do? What do you want to do today?” And sometimes it’s going for a walk, sometimes its making music, sometimes it’s not doing anything and that’s okay right? Like if you just want to sit and hangout and you want to- some of the kids I worked with were younger so sometimes it was like collecting ants. We’re going to collect ants and that is fine. And having adults too, that intergenerational piece, having men as role models; men to be there, men they can talk to, and men who can kind of be someone these kids can look up to and talk to. Whereas women and other people can be there to support, to stand there and be there to show if you need something I’m here. So, I am doing some research now, Robert Henry is actually on the project we are starting up, we haven’t officially started yet. We are in the process, and we have done some engagement. And people want women to be there, and they do want to do that separate.

They want men to be doing some stuff together, women doing some stuff together. But they say, you know what it is nice to have your partner, so if I feel overwhelmed my partner is there I can go and get a hug, if I need a hug and I can go and debrief and we can go and have lunch together. And I think creating these spaces and thinking about these relationships and that respect, and really always putting that at the forefront is a way to enter into some of this and hopefully makes a longer-term difference.

Sarah-I love that, those are really beautiful insights. Linda, we are going to spotlight you in just a second, but I just want to acknowledge in the chat, Prudence is asking Elizabeth can we buy these sweatshirts and where can you buy them? And so, if you have that info perhaps you can share it in the chat, and we can all support that great cause and look as good as you look today.

That would be fantastic. And then Dan in the chat is back on the snack wall and he still is concerned about how the snack wall works. But I think you have got it here, Dan, everyone writes the snack they want on a little post-it note, they put it up on the wall and then someone goes shopping. That’s exactly the whole deal and then, you know they get more and more fun and interesting each time you try it. People are like, will say Doritos the first time they try it, the second or third time might be like I want “cool ranch” or I want “zesty” this or I want strawberries that are organic. They will get more free to tell you exactly what they want and then it gets more fun. So definitely if you have your one nugget from today it is the snack wall

and perhaps, Moe’s circles with the f-bombs are good takeaways from today. Linda, do you have some thoughts?

Linda- I do, and I have some thoughts about the snack wall as well. I was recently working with a group of young men on adapting some of Moe’s work and I know the young men really well, and the prospect of having to discuss pornography and various forms of sex with them left me feeling quite weak, so I went and I bought some fruit that we would have loved in South Africa and took it into the meeting. I got some very interesting responses to that and ate the fruit myself. But that is many months if not years down the line. I tend just to echo a lot of what had been said here but framing it in ways, how we use it in Eskasoni. I think that idea of building respect but reciprocal respect right from the get-go, echoing what Elizabeth said and Robert with the notion of the 5Rs, but what I’ve found really really helpful is to ask the young people in the group to set their own ground rules; how do you want to be treated in the space? And we have also combined it with traditional activities, for example making dream catchers and they have been attaching those ideas, those rules to the dream catchers as feathers, and it hangs in the space every time we meet as a reminder. So, I find that, as with the snack wall it is a wonderful way of creating ownership of the space and a sense of responsibility for the space from each young person. And the other point that is being raised here extensively is that it is absolutely essential to build those relationships. I had previously done research with a group of young people in Eskasoni called Spaces and Places and afterwards we reflected on that, and the youth said you know, “can we have more fun? But can we have more fun in doing this?” and that was really really helpful as we moved into Networks 4 Change and all of Claudia’s wonderful projects. So, to do things: have a barbeque or a pizza night or something upfront and just hang out together, just get to know each other and don’t worry about the work or the research or- just connect. And then to move from there and also what was interesting to me, because I voiced, that I had the sense that I needed to be really mindful of people’s time so it was like “let’s get in, let’s get the work done so you can all go and live your lives”. And it has been interesting to see how many young people have said “no take the extra time and let’s have more fun together as a group”. So, I find especially when you are working with a topic as challenging as sexualized and gender-based violence, to have those moments where you know “let’s go play a ball game on the beach” or you know, “let’s stop and have another barbeque” and just building those fun elements. And while you can build those in more formally, just going back to something Moe had said, to also follow - pace the work according to the young people.

Even if that means you have to creatively think in the moment and reschedule and figure out. I remember one weekend sitting a room and the next thing it was just this avalanche of paper jets flying through the room and having to remind myself that these- it was young women but I have had similar experiences with young men- they have spent a gruelling week talking about very personal, very very difficult topics and they had done it so bravely and courageously that honestly this is what we do until they are sick of paper jets. So set that pacing as well. So, fun can be more structured, you know we are going to do this and then go play on the beach,

whatever but also in that moment say, “okay enough, we stop here”. And I have also found going back to the fun elements if you think creatively, you can also link a lot of fun to the topics that are going to be discussed. We had a wonderful experience, for example doing archery one day. We started the day with the archery and then in the afternoon sat and discussed how bows were similar to relationships. And so, it worked really really well, because the exercise, you know the fun in the morning that created the comradery and then something really concrete to link to the afternoon.

Sarah: I love that idea, as Moe says, the fun while hanging out is part of the work, it is crucial to the relationship building and the kind of work we want to do with young people.

So, I am wondering, as we engage in these activities and we work with young men in thinking about talking about these really hard kind of topics, gender and sexual based violence are hard, all violence are hard heavy topics, and especially when we are working with young men who might be both victims and perpetrators of violence, who might have been on both ends simultaneously, how do we help them, invite them into a conversation, and create spaces that feel welcoming while also ensuring that girls and young women and two-spirit youth and those who have been victims of violence also feel safe in that conversation? I am wondering if any of you can reflect on that push and pull, or that tension or that challenge with examples from your own work on how you address that challenge.

Linda: I think it goes back to what we discussed previously about the importance of having those sacred groups in which to have the hard conversations and in which to sort through and I don’t even want to use the word ‘process’ but perhaps process experiences and perceptions and feelings, and then from there to build on those groups and coming together, because what I have seen in Eskasoni is that young people within their school groups where it’s youth who identify as ciswomen or cismen or LGBTQ2+ group, over time will have a supportive relationship and in that space can process their experiences and what they have seen in their communities and then by the time they come together as a bigger group I think that practice of reciprocal respect is so part and parcel of the work but also I think they have found within those small groups ways of expressing hurt or pain and especially if it is young women who are expressing anger toward young men and even vice versa. That notion of victimhood I have found really overwhelming for young men, this is happening to the girls and women in our community and what can we do about it. There is an anger that women and girls are victims of this and so a lot of those emotions have been processed before the groups come together and found healthier ways, I hesitate to use these words, but small groups have found healthier ways of talking about these issues and concerns, and of listening to other people’s issues and concerns, so to me these smaller groups and safe spaces within are so crucial in bringing everyone together.

Sarah: Other thoughts, any other experiences of trying to manage these tensions and thinking about holding space for people to have complex experiences of violence in their lives?

Elizabeth: Just a thought, so something that I have been thinking a lot about lately is that in some of these communities and sometimes when we are working together is that people know each other’s stories, right, and they know who might have done one thing, and who might have done something else and acknowledging the past but not dwelling in it, and going back to those ground rules, but really keeping that in mind and sometimes really there is a lot of hurt feelings between what’s happened, either what has happened to a young man, or what a young man might have done with respect to somebody else and then even thinking sometimes about who can be in the space, who has what restraining orders, who has what else going on, and really being gentle and being cognizant of this, and really thinking it through, and so I haven’t quite processed how to do all this yet but it is something I am thinking about, is that the past defines but does not define us, right, that other people have their own experiences and their own relationships and hopefully that is something that as we continue with this work we will continue working towards.

Sarah: Moe and then I see Linda’s hand is up as well.

Moe: Thanks Sarah, I have actually talked to Linda about this and I have done a little bit of work in some high schools in an all gender group and I consider myself to be a very very good facilitator but even I was uncomfortable with the vibe in the room and the climate, and I have stepped back from that, I think you really have to get a sense of when the genders are ready to come together to have some of these difficult conversations and people feel comfortable, that is not to say you can’t have emotions in the room but part of the vision of Guys Work in Nova Scotia that Chris and I are involved in is that we are creating these spaces for the guys and in elementary schools and middle school and early high school so that we will be in a better position to bring genders together for some of these very important conversations because they should happen, and if something parallel is happening with other groups of youth then I think that is going to make the outcomes better but for us it is premature we think to bring groups together until we do some more intentional work and evaluate that work to see where we are going with it.

Sarah: Linda, did you have something you wanted to add to that?

Linda: I actually wanted to add to the really really important point that Elizabeth raised about the fact that often we are working in small communities, and I think even in urban settings people are still linked, people still have communities and they are small and people know each other’s business and exactly those points that Elizabeth raised about those tensions can so easily come into the space and how can we be mindful of that. So, speaking from an experience that we have had in Eskasoni where everyone is now in the room, you have taken your best steps to think about who is in the space and what is going on and it’s not just the tensions but things are being said. And we had an experience like that once and really just take a time-out and then after that we all came back together, sort of just took a step back, the group broke up just for a while and then brought everybody back together. I am South African and so I explained to the group the notion of Ubuntu, and that we are because of each other, and what does that actually mean, what are the implications of that, and the fact that we carry each other’s experiences, we carry each other's joys and successes and we carry each other’s hurts and pains and so while these experiences have happened and while there are these dynamic relationships in the room, what kinds of ripple effects do we want to create, with that notion in mind that we are so interrelated and we carry each other's hurt and pain, and in that particular instance I found it really really helpful and it really did change the dynamic. A lot of the people in the room, there weren’t that many but many of the small groups did come back after and say I had never really thought about it that way, and to be angry with so-and-so's sister or brother really isn’t going to move us forward as a community, but as I say it worked in that instance, to not say it will always work, and it doesn’t account for everyone’s pain, or the freshness of hurt and pain and so I think that there are points where we do have to confront it and I don’t think simply dispersing a group helps, or removing someone form a group, it feeds into the lack of social networks that bring a lot of challenges. But thank you for raising this, Elizabeth.

Sarah: Really thoughtful, thought-provoking insights, thank you for sharing that experience, Linda. There is a question that has come in through the chat and it is for Bobby. The question is, Bobby, we have noted that you have worked with both male and female gang members, and we’d love to know if you experienced any surprising differences in the process of engaging men vs women.

Robert: Not really no, because of sort of the work that I have done, it took me about eight years of working with the community partner before I actually started to do research with the community partner so it took a long time to actually build the relationships where individuals would trust me enough to work with. The one thing that I can say between the men and the women, so there are two separate projects, and the men was my PhD project, and it was actually the women who came to me and said why is it always about the men in these spaces, why aren't, why don’t we get to talk about it, so what I told them was let me finish the project with the men, we’ll fix it so that it is better for you, and then that way it will work out this way,

and so this is where building that relationship, but again, part of it is, going back to that idea of ethical space. But again understanding my privileges being a male, understanding what that privilege means within those spaces and the relationships and the context that is there so when we’re working, I think one of the things for facilitators, educators and those working in these spaces, especially in Indigenous spaces is to really have a ground of what is the impact of white settler heteronormative patriarchy, and the history of what has been created here, so that when these conversations and discussions come up we can find ways in which to talk about them, or engage with them, or understand what’s happening, and so working with individuals who are talking about violence and all of that is to ask, what has been the impact of colonial masculinity in our communities, how has colonial masculinity reframed those relationships that have put women out of roles that we see as traditional roles, how has colonial masculinity pushed out two-spirit and LGBTQ and the broader spectrum of gender identity out of our communities and created this dichotomy that is so rigid now within our communities and what does that mean. Asking these really tough questions we’ll go through with that, so when working with the men and the women, I think going back again to the beginning is that the difference is just understanding my own privileges, in those spaces and just acknowledging them and working from where that’s at, and it’s building that relationship with individuals with where they’re at and not trying to say you are going to change the world but if we can just work together to make the changes that we can do together that is to the best step forward for myself in the work that I do so I’ll just leave it at that.

Sarah: I think that is so interesting and in my research, I also look at structural determinants of HIV prevention and I remember when I was first doing the research people were like you can’t talk to Indigenous teenagers about colonialism in relation to HIV, they won’t get it, and it was just the opposite, like they totally got it, they were able to you know, map that relationship so beautifully so I think that that’s an interesting starting place, is to think about what is the colonial relationship to our current realities and how do we think about Indigenous masculinities and so maybe that is a question I want to invite you all to respond to. So what does it mean to think about Indigenous masculinity and how can we support young men to realize an Indigenous masculinity that feels hopeful to them and what does that look like in your projects and with the youth that you work with? What is a vision for indigenous masculinity?

Robert: I’ll go first cause my internet is going to be stable for a couple of minutes. I think one of the things, one of the pieces that I’m a part of is a larger network of Indigenous masculinities scholars. So I think that was one of the first things we ran into when we put together a book with Kim Anderson and Robert Innes who are the editors of it and in the community, the term masculinity was actually removed, and that is why we pluralized it to say that there are multiple masculinities that we are talking about here, and if we create a singular, we are missing the

complexities of our own nations, and so I think part of this when are looking at it is we need to understand what are the ways in which we not just come to understand indigenous masculinity and some people talk about this idea of warriorism, we were warriors, and it is this idea of being a warrior that was taken away and how do we reclaim this idea of being a warrior, but when we work with individuals, who I have worked with, when we talk about warrior it is about providing and protecting, so it is not this construct that is out there, so how do we re-adapt this idea of protection and providing for family and communities in spaces where a lot of Indigenous men are actively removed from those spaces simply because of their being Indigenous, so they’re seen as a criminal, they're seen as violent automatically so they are removed from these spaces so how do we redefine these spaces? How do we reeducate non-Indigenous communities to not be afraid of Indigenous male bodies in the first place so they don’t see them as the gang member, they don’t see them as a criminal, they don’t see them as that violent ---, and how do we create spaces where Indigenous men and males feel empowered again, back within their spaces because many have said that they just feel disempowered through the process of what is going on because they’re no longer able to provide in this idea of a traditional masculine framework but we need to create the contemporary of it. What does it mean to be an Indigenous male in contemporary spaces and what does it mean to be providing in these contemporary spaces? As a Metis male, how do I go about mentoring and showing what it means to do this in a specific way with my community, with my family and so forth and that it’s not always about, and here comes the complexities of it, it’s not always about going back out on to the land and going back out there, but what is the complexities of urban spaces within all of this, what does it mean within urban Indigenous identity and moving forward as well, so there’s just lots of complexities going on there, these are the fun discussions to have, with individuals to begin to understand the myriad of ways in which identity is constructed and how masculinities sand femininities come together and gender identities, and really what it helps us do is expand our minds to help us understand how boxed in we’ve come to understand who we are as people generally and globally.

Sarah: Thank you so much, I love that expansive thinking and a reminder to always use the plurals. Any other thoughts or reflections on that giant question? Linda, ok great. And, while you’re answering that, there was a reflection back in the chat so I am going to give you a twoparter, to reflect on Indigenous masculinities and the second part is, can you give us more details regarding the lack of support systems impacting this work? I don’t even know, I’m not even quite sure when that question came in, but I did note that it was for you, so I’ll leave it with you.

Linda: Ok we’ll start with the ‘easy’ question. Masculinities... first to say Robert, thank you so much for what you shared because it has really been pushing my thinking in relation to what I am about to say now. The young men in Eskasoni and have done some really incredible

reflective work around the ‘good guy.’ That’s sort of what we ended up with. What does the ‘good guy’ look like? And without realizing what they listed, the characteristics of the good guy are the Seven Sacred Teachings, so the Grandfather teachings. It was really interesting to sit back from the bodies of the men that they had been drawing on the floor and those were the seven characteristics that they came up with. And then, following on that, discussing how do we nurture the good guy in the community, and this was something that had come up previously in other research as well, was the importance of role models. And one thing that was interesting and really resonated with some of what Robert said as well was the plurality of these constructs, and for the young men in Eskasoni role models are not limited to other men.

Everyone in the community should be role modeling, everyone in the community should be striving to live by the Seven Sacred Teachings, and the more we can ingrain that in everyday life, the more that role modeling stays. It was really interesting that that’s what they came up with and Robert, your comments now have made me think how does that relate to the notion of warrior as protector and provider, and what does that look like in a world where especially young men are moving between traditional cultural contexts, especially if they are still on reserve or very much linked with reserve and the noise, if I can put it that way, the grey noise of the ---- that surrounds the traditions, so how do they bridge that, so I'm thinking very much two-eyed seeing, and integrating that.

The other question, the impact of a lack of support systems, on what? Just what is the impact of a lack of support systems? It’s multifaceted. If I think about what the young men and the young women in Eskasoni have said, and I say that across the three groups, it really really is multifaceted, because a lot of what is in the ‘formal’ support structures for people who have survived or experienced and survived sexual violence so reporting to the police, or in the medical system, a lot of that involves being moved out of the community, moved away from social networks which puts additional strains on supports and if we look at the resilience literature and what is required to support people in doing well, relationships are critical, those social networks are key so formalized support systems actually undermine the kind of social networks and supports that people need to deal with challenges they face or process experiences they had. I think as well about what a lot of the young people have said, that lack of social networks, so lack of space where there is an adult who accepts you and loves you and stands by you and has your back, it’s those kinds of experiences more often than not that will foster angry and aggressive responses, especially if young people are in a home environment and they’re experiencing anger and violence, if they don’t have someone else in their lives who has their back, and is listening to them unconditionally, it feeds into that cycle, so I think strained or lack of support systems is crucial. And then of course a third point that I’ve read about is in doing this kind of work, are there support systems in place to support this kind of work if issues come up, and mental health or emotional supports are needed, are they there in the community? And I know when Claudia first began Networks for Change, we had hoped to work in a particular community that I had been involved in, and the response was this is really important research, we really need this done, but right now, we don’t have the capacity in our

community to deal with the fall out. And I think that raises a really important ethical question in terms of should we, while it may be necessary, is now the right time to even be doing it?

Sarah: Those are really, really important points, thank you Linda for sharing them and for offering them. We just have a couple more minutes before we hand the mic back to Claudia, so I am going to ask if there any last-minute questions from our audience, feel free to throw them in the chat. We asked the youth about their favorite snacks, so I am going to ask you guys, what is the funniest thing that has happened to you in your work with Indigenous men?

Elizabeth: We went for a community walk, we had somebody who knew a lot about traditional medicine, it was an urban thing, they found medicines in town so they could see what it was, we are walking around and the kids are doing a video, they were making a fantastic video about what they learnt, and this one little guy, I guess he was about 12, said, and this is this thing and you can use it for xyz, but you should wash it first, and his mom was there and she said, but why should you wash it first, and he said, well a dog might have peed on it, and that is my story for you.

Sarah: Great, love it. Anyone else have a happy anecdote that they would like to offer us as we wrap us this afternoon our time together? Moe, I can tell you’ve got a great story, I can see it in your face.

Moe: Oh my gosh so many stories, I’d have to drop the f bomb again. I just remember a cute story. When I came out to a group as a gay man, one of the guys says, you mean you’re gay, right now? And I said yes, right now. You mean you’re gay, right now? Yes, right now, check with me in five minutes though, it may have changed but yeah, I am gay. So that was sort of an ongoing joke after that.

Sarah: I love it. In the chat it says, it’s really cool to see Moe here, you’re a legend. So, thank you for being here, we’re so excited to have you and your audience participants are super excited, people are fangirling over here, so that’s really fun.

Any last fun stories? Are you still gay Moe, still right now?

Moe: Right now, check in five minutes.

Sarah: Alright, we’ll come back to you. On that note, I want to thank all of you for your wisdom, your time, your thoughts. In the chat it says someone has been transcribing, so please feel free to share that, that would be wonderful, oh Robert it’s really great to see your face as we say hello, I was just saying thank you thank you thank and without further ado I am going to hand things back to Claudia.

Claudia: The funniest thing that happened to me this evening is that it actually became evening and it got so dark in the room that I was in but the light fixture is halfway down the house in the hallway and I am thinking am I going to get up and leave or what am I going to do, but anyway I did eventually go and put on the light but note to self, try to remember that it does get dark and you should be prepared for this.

Thank you so much everyone, this kind of event takes one’s words away. So that’s why we had to get rid of More Than Words and go into Pathways to Equity, because I am losing words here.

Jennica and Hailey Mae and Julia are you still there somewhere? Gabby are you still there?

Thank you so much for logging in and bringing all this great wisdom, and to Liz and Chris and Linda and Robert and Moe and there you are Gabby, you are fabulous! Thank you! Thank you so much. I know this is the beginning of a lot of dialogue we are going to have but if this is the beginning we just are going to soar in terms of thinking through these really important issues and concerns and working together to do this. And Sarah, you were awesome as always, thank you so much. You could keep a conversation going on, and snack walls at any point, so really, so appreciated. This is truly the beginning of a new project, so this is not the end, we are coming to the end of this evening, but it is the beginning of this new project and I just wanted to say a few things. A lot of you received a launch document that we sent out earlier this week, kind of mapping out the project and what’s involved, including a new newsletter that we hope will be youth-led, if I manage to get Hailey Mae and Julia and Gabby’s eyes in here, I am imagining they might want to jump in and do some editing, we had a very successful book launch a few months ago called Circle Back and I know that the Young Indigenous Women’s Utopia are now publishing something else, but the voices of youth are really important in this and it’s like how can adults get out of the way, and how and how can youth be the center of it and I think in that project that happened, and I think that’s where we are headed with this project so to let you know there will be more coming in terms of voices of young people and community leaders and more from Liz, more from everyone, but also to say there is a brand new document being launched, a Lit Review of some of the important work that is being done around masculinities and Grace Skahan has just launched that and it is in the chat. So really important work that draws together Robert’s work, and Liz and Moe’s and Chris and Sarah so that’s in there so we’re looking to build this. There are so many pieces coming out. It’s a lit review and also looks at programs happening across Canada and what can we learn from various programs we’ve heard about this evening, but also trying to look at documentary films being made with young men,

Indigenous young men and women and how those are sources of knowledge but also inspiration for further work. Which brings us to field work. This has been I know for everyone a lot of how do we go forward during the times of Covid, what things can still happen, as it turns out a lot has happened during Covid and there’s lots more to come. So we’re really thinking through with working in the communities at the center of this work has been very much around art-making, media-making, fantastic mural work out in Treaty 6, the memorial garden in Eskasoni, the whole name of the project in Rankin Inlet is Get Art, so there’s like a lot of art to come, and I think that is a really important part of this, there can be a lot of talk but there can be even more making of art, and making together, and some of the representations are just so powerful so I would say watch this spot, but not really literally this screen, because hopefully we are moving to other venues, but these screens are also important, as Emily reminded us in the beginning, that this is both a limitation and we saw this evening not everyone is going to have stable internet to get through the whole Zoom call necessarily but hopefully people can Zoom in when they can, and that is one of the pieces - how do we all stay connected in these times and how do we continue to do this work. So I think we are just about running out of time and time I think is something that, the word time has come up so many times this evening, in terms of taking time, making time, not rushing things and the time that the end of these require, when Robert talked about how he was working for eight years in a particular community before he embarked on a particular piece of research, how do we make sure that we are not racing through because it is a project? We know that we will always find ways to work together, but we can’t always race through and lose the real importance of the ground that we are building. So I think that what we are seeing this evening, with all of these different initiatives, so many different people and kind of thinking through how can we take time pull that together, take time to do more of this kind of work and take time to really appreciate what kinds of changes are possible when we take time to do it. I love the ‘respect respect’ comment that we had earlier, and I think that this is the kind of work we want to continue to do. So on behalf of the PCL group who are so in the background and so in the foreground all the time, thank you all of you, thanks everybody for coming, I know there is lots of diversity and interest and if your question didn’t get answered, send it along to us and we’ll make sure it comes out in some way and with that we will draw to a close. Thank you so much everyone for being here and bringing these ideas. Safe evening ahead.

THANK YOU! For more information on the Pathways to Equity project or on this event, contact: Claudia Mitchell—Project Director, Distinguished James McGill Professor at claudia.mitchell@mcgill.ca.