13 minute read
Mirrah Foulkes Interview
Mirrah Foulkes
On Pulling The Strings In Her Directorial DebutJudy & Punch
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Interviewed by Fiona Underhill
Mirrah Foulkes is an Australian actress, who has appeared in Animal Kingdom, Top of the Lake and The Crown. From 2012-2016 she made three short films and has now made her feature film debut with Judy & Punch, starring Mia Wasikowska and Damon Herriman. The film toured the fes�val circuit, including Sundance and London Film Fes�val 2019. The story is a spin on the puppet show, taking full advantage of the violence and dark humour that is inherent in the beloved children's favourite.
What inspired you to want to take on the Punch and Judy story?
It wasn’t my idea to adapt it. The producers had seen my short films and then came to me and said they were interested in making a liveac�on Punch and Judy movie. At its origin, it was a wri�ng job and I wasn’t sure at that point if they wanted me to direct it or not. I really liked those guys, they gave me a lot of crea�ve freedom to take it and run with it. They wanted something really bold and they wanted something that felt unique and dis�nc�ve. It was a great opportunity to write my first feature with a company that I loved and to have the opportunity to really go nuts with it. So that’s why I dove into the project.
How hard was the wri�ng process, in terms of juggling tones? Because the movie is such a balancing act between drama and comedy, it’s got different styles, there is a lot going on with it. Was it a long dra�ing process?
It was a long process but not really because of tone, to be honest. I think I ins�nctually landed on a sense of style and tone quite early on. I knew it was risky and I knew it was weird and was going to be hard to pull off. But that’s what was exci�ng to me and I was grateful to have producing partners who were really encouraging of that. The process was long and hard because I’d not wri�en a feature before, in a lot of ways I was teaching myself how to write in the process. I was figuring out how to structure a story like this and what was the best “in” was in terms of why to tell it and how to tell it. So, tonally it was strangely not so difficult, it was more about nailing structure and teaching myself how to write, essen�ally.
I really liked the Gothic feel to the film, especially in the introduc�on. The score and obviously the produc�on design both have a Gothic feel. How was the process of collabora�on on the score and how did you se�le on what it eventually became?
It was a fantas�c process with Franc (François Tétaz) actually and I could not have been happier. I was really nervous about music when we were cu�ng the film, the score came quite late in the piece, which is never ideal. We were scoring the movie very, very late and it was almost fully locked by that point. My editor Danny Cooper and myself, we never really landed on any temp music that felt right, we tried out a lot of different stuff. I knew that the sound and musical world of the movie needed to be as unique as the visual world of the movie and that’s kind of terrifying when you’re not sure if you’re going to get there or not. But Franc Tétaz is kind of the perfect person for this film and I realise now in a way, the only person for this film, he’s such a nu�er. He’s got an incredible musical mind, he’s incredibly well-versed in music throughout history.
He’s got a crazy, wonderful brain and he just got the tone. He got the tone from our very early mee�ngs, he really understood it and I feel so grateful for that. I love what he’s done with the score and feel like it could so easily have not worked out. I hate to think what that would have felt like, if I was with a different composer who didn’t quite have the sensibility that I needed. The brave and reckless craziness to do the stuff that Franc did.
How difficult was it to find the loca�ons? I’m struck by how English the whole thing looks, despite you filming in Australia.
When I was wri�ng the film, I always assumed that we’d be filming somewhere in Europe, I thought we’d probably end up landing in Eastern Europe somewhere. It’s obviously a make-believe world in a lot of ways, it’s not period-correct or historicallybound, but I certainly wanted it to feel European, if not English. Then the decision was made to shoot in Australia, mainly for financial reasons and I was pre�y devastated to be honest. Because I thought; “I don’t know if I’m going to be able to do what I want to do here in Australia, visually.” But then it turned out that we sort of cobbled together these loca�ons and made it work. I love the way the film looks now and I’m so grateful to hear, especially someone from England, say that. I didn’t want it to look or feel Australian in any way, for obvious reasons and I wanted to kind of keep that fantas�cal fable element to it visually. But it’s difficult in Australia, because there’s gum trees everywhere and there’s no 17th century buildings obviously, so yeah it was challenging. But you find one or two key loca�ons and then that sets you off. We had to do a li�le bit of pain�ng-out of things here and there, but we were lucky that we landed at the right �me of the year and we were lucky to find a couple of key loca�ons, so we were able to get through it.
I’m interested in finding out about the cas�ng, especially of the outcasts in the forest. It was great to see so many different types of people onscreen, far away from the typical Hollywood look, such a diverse range of body types – how did you go about finding them?
Well I was really specific about that group in that camp especially. I wanted it to feel like, for one reason or another, they could have been cast out in some kind of religious craze in a mid-17th century world. It was important to me that there was a range of able and less-able bodies in that mix. There’s actors in there who don’t have obvious disabili�es, for example, there’s deaf actors in there. There’s also actors that I just think have interes�ng and wonderful faces, strong women who I know, who don’t always get the chance to appear onscreen. So it was a specific cobbling together, I wanted everyone in that camp to have a certain spirit. So it was quite deliberate, right down to the people who you barely see, in the distance, I made sure that we didn’t cast that with a regular slew of extras. I was specific about everyone that was in that camp. It was about crea�ng a sense of camaraderie and a spirit in there, which ended up being really lovely. It was a really quick shoot in that loca�on, unfortunately, but it was the most joyful part of the shoot for me. It was peopled with awesome humans that had the here�c spirit.
Source:ViceMedia
Speaking of cas�ng and audi�oning, I would like to ask you about transi�oning from being an actor to wri�ng/direc�ng. Was there anything surprising or harder than you expected it to be?
I’d made shorts before, I’d be on sets a lot with friends direc�ng, I made sure that I spent a lot of �me on sets that I wasn’t ac�ng on, so I felt very prepared. But also there’s nothing really that prepares you for the experience of it. I was surprised at how you’d hear directors say “if we’re honest, everyone feels like they’re just making it up and they don’t actually know what they’re doing” and I certainly felt that way. I felt completely ill-equipped and I felt as though I had no right to be on that set, bossing everyone around. But then you get there, you land there on day one and you realise “oh hang a second, I’ve sat with this world, this story (par�cularly when you’re a writer-director) for longer than anyone here, I am the authority on this par�cular story and I do know what I’m talking about.” There’s something very empowering about that. But I was terrified, I thought; “what if I just don’t know what to do? What if a day arrives and I literally don’t know where the camera should be or what if I don’t know how to fix a performance that isn’t working?” But I was never stumped. The beau�ful thing about film sets is that if you are ever stumped, there’s always 30 people there to help you, so you’re not alone. But I was surprised at the authority I had over the world and over the story and I’m not used to that. As for things that are difficult? Everything. [laughs] I found the edit really hard and just the physical exhaus�on really tough. There’s so many things I learned along the way, I hope I get the chance soon to put all of those things into prac�ce. You certainly feel that you learn a lot and you learn really quickly. It was a tough shoot, this movie, but I feel like every shoot is, but this was especially tough. But it was also full of joy, lots of joy.
I love the theatricality of the costumes, not just because it’s partly set in a theatrical world, with the puppet show, but the outcasts in the woods all have a very dis�nc�ve style and look like they could be a travelling theatrical or circus troupe. How was the collabora�on on the costume design, you said you didn’t want to be period-specific, so what were you aiming for with the costumes?
I like this idea of having a certain rulebook and then you can break those rules whenever you want - Edie Kurzer (the costume designer) and I talked a lot about that. There’s also a sense that when you’re having to be resourceful, which you are (let’s be honest) in about 90% of filmmaking, you can’t just have everything you want. Especially something like this, it’s a period film, so all of our costumes had to be made or we hired a bunch of costumes from the UK and from Italy to dress all of our extras, because there are scenes with a hundred people and we just couldn’t afford to make a hundred ou�its. So it was a cobbling together, all of the key-cast’s costumes were made and then a lot of the extras were dressed with what we had. There’s something really great about having to be resourceful because it throws up some really interes�ng things. .
When Edie finally got that big delivery of costumes that we’d hired from overseas, it was like Christmas, it was so exci�ng. We were pulling things out and from that stuff, we got ideas about things we could make for our key-cast. We started to develop themes or certain groupings of people started to have a visual style or a look that would some�mes be based off just one li�le piece of costume that we’d pulled out of that box, or a bit of fabric that Edie had sourced from a thri� store So I really love building from resourcefulness and I can’t actually imagine a world in which you had all of the money that you wanted to create whatever you wanted because I don’t know if that’s always the best thing. I think having to be a li�le bit thri�y with that sort of stuff leads to a more interes�ng crea�ve journey, I felt like that was the case with our costuming. There’s a sense of fun to it as well, our film is dark and it’s dirty and everyone’s filthy and you want it to feel like they all s�nk. But Edie is very playful, someone will have some pinkand-white stripes in there somewhere, or some silly stockings or something and I love that she managed to squeeze in some playful costuming around all of the doom and gloom.
“It’s really “ fascinating to see how people respond to it
[Spoiler Ahead for something that happens approximately 30 mins into the film]
Lastly, I want to ask if a�er you’ve shown the film to people in fes�vals or however, if there’s anything that’s surprised you about the recep�on and reac�on, and if it has differed from country to country at all? Because if you’re familiar with the Punch and Judy stock characters, or even the original commedia dell’arte characters, you might view it differently to how you might if you were unfamiliar with that tradi�on.
Yeah, I would say certainly in the UK there was more familiarity with the stock tradi�ons and I always wanted the film to be able to play just as well to an audience who wasn’t as familiar with all of that. But it’s always nice when they do have a familiarity and I think it gives an added dimension to the film as a whole, so that’s really lovely. The audience reac�on thing is really interes�ng. I’m constantly amazed at how…. there’s some violence in the film, for sure, par�cularly in one moment and it’s very gruesome. Tonally the film is unusual and I’m o�en surprised at people seeing it as an incredibly violent film, I sort of never expected that. I have a really funny reac�on to violence onscreen and I struggle with it and the more I watch these days, the more I realise how desensi�sed we are to it. Everything seems so horrifically violent these days and I honestly never thought that I was making a really violent movie. There is a very violent act, but it’s not graphic and we don’t see it, given the tone of the film, it’s sort of absurd. When I was in Munich, the German audiences were fixated on the death of the baby. Every Q&A was like “how could you? I can’t believe you could kill a baby” and wow – that was so fascina�ng to me, I mean really interes�ng and I see it as a posi�ve thing because the whole film to me is about examining our rela�onship to violence in popular culture, that’s the core theme of the movie for me. So the fact that I was having that conversa�on felt really important and good, but I have to admit I was surprised by it. I think it’s very par�cular to babies and children.
I men�oned this in my review. That the “baby sailing out of the window” moment is when the audience is won or lost.
Well, not so secretly, I love it when people laugh at that moment. It is supposed to be absurd. But I also completely understand and respect the people who have problems with that moment and I think that’s a very important reac�on as well. But it’s really fascina�ng seeing how people respond to it.
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