"The Pentecostal Church Prepared Me to Be Orthodox"

A Dominican Convert’s Journey

an interview with JASIEL RODRIGUEZ

Jasiel Rodriguez, who was born in the Dominican Republic and grew up in the Bronx, now directs the choir at St. Mary Magdalene Orthodox Church in Manhattan. We asked him to explain how his faith took this unusual course.

You were born in the Caribbean, right? When did you move to the U.S.?

I moved here when I was 9 years old, back in February of '01. I've been living in New York ever since—19 years now. My dad's side of the family still lives in the Dominican Republic, and my mom's side of the family lives here in the U.S., all over the States.

So, you went to high school in New York?

Yeah, I went to two different high schools. First, I went to Cristo Rey, a Catholic high school, in East Harlem. “El Barrio” is what they call that area. Then I went to the Celia Cruz Bronx High School of Music, which is what I always wanted to do. My last few years there, it was really, really, really fun playing music.

What is your main instrument?

Well, my main instrument is not the one I started with. See, I did not grow up Orthodox—I grew up Pentecostal. When I was nine years old, I picked up the drums from just going to church and looking at what the drummer would do. Then when I was about 11, my family visited this new church. They needed a piano player, and I said I would do it. I picked up piano kind of on my own, and since then, it has been my main instrument. But I've also learned how to play the guitar and the bass — all the rock-band instruments.

And you stayed in New York after high school?

Yes. I tried going to school for music audio technology. I wasn't really feeling it, so I left. I was able, by the grace of God, I say, to do a full-time church gig. I was the music director at The Beautiful Church, over here in the Bronx. I directed music there for maybe three years, but then my dad became a pastor, so I left that behind to help my dad with music. His church is called The Church of All Souls; it’s an Assemblies of God church in the Bronx. It’s mostly Latino.

Then I became the music director for the youth ministry of the Bronx section of the Assemblies of God. I would also play in bands and we would travel to different states.

I’m picturing all the Latino storefront churches I’ve seen in Brooklyn. In the evenings, you’ll walk by and see pastors preaching, with bands behind them. Were you playing in those kinds of churches or mostly bigger ones?

My dad's church is not a storefront church—it has a pretty decent size congregation—but many times we would go and play at storefront churches, for sure. The bulk of the time we would spend at retreats and conventions. I was a part of what the AG calls the Spanish Eastern District, which is the biggest district in the U.S. Right now I think it has about 500 churches. The Assemblies of God, for a long time, was my life. I was pretty much immersed in it.

Seems like a big jump from there to St. Mary Magdalene. What was the catalyst?

Well, one day I stumbled upon a Christianity sub-Reddit, and there was an argument about Mary. I was reading what the Orthodox had to say about that, and about Holy Communion and other things. I was really impressed by their answers. I became super, super interested in the faith.

Did this all happen in one afternoon?

It was actually over months. A different thread would come, and people would ask these questions that were very difficult for a Protestant to answer. The way the Orthodox spoke, it was just new to me. I was in love, I guess, with the language.

Does any Reddit thread stand out in your memory?

There was one about Holy Communion and about the real Presence. Somebody linked to St. Ignatius of Antioch, who said basically that those who deny that the bread and wine are the flesh and the blood of Christ are denying Christ. I struggled with that because I knew he was a disciple of St. John. I asked myself why he would say something like this. That spurred me to do some research. I came to realize that the whole consensus of the early Church was that the Eucharist is the flesh and blood of Christ.

I was like, “OK, if the early Church believed this, what else did early Christians believe that is completely different than from what I've been believing and what I've always heard preached?” So I started to read the Church Fathers.

Many people start with primers on the faith—books written in our own time. They don’t read the Fathers until later. But you went straight to the source.

Right, because something about what they had to say really intrigued me. I know that some of these people were the disciples of the Apostles. Little by little, I learned about things like apostolic succession. It created this crazy curiosity in me.

Then one day I stumbled upon a video by Fr. Barnabas Powell, who was previously a Pentecostal, same background as me. He was speaking to his catechumens about why a Pentecostal preacher would ever want to become Orthodox. He contextualized everything I was reading from the Fathers. It made me realize that the church that they were speaking about was the Orthodox Church.

So when did you first visit an Orthodox church?

Oh, it was much, much later. For a whole year I was just reading about the Orthodox Church, up until the point where I guess my mind was Orthodox. I was even saying Orthodox prayers without any sort of guidance or anything like that. It wasn't until my girlfriend said, "You've been speaking about this church this whole time. Let's go." She looked up the closest one, which was St. Mary Magdalene. It was a Sunday morning, January of 2016. I believe that they were still celebrating Theophany. To this day, that's my favorite feast, because it reminds me of the first time I ever went to the church.

What were your first impressions when you went there? It must have been built up so much in your mind.

It was. The first thing that I noticed was the smell (of incense). I didn't associate church with a certain type of smell. Now I definitely do. When I walked in, the Hours were being read. I remember saying, "Wow," and smiling and just sitting in the back. Then the deacon, Fr. Nicholas, who is now a priest at St. Nicholas in Whitestone, came over and gave us the warmest welcome I think I've ever received at any church, period. We kept going every Sunday after that.

How did your family take this?

My conversion was not well received. A couple of months before I went, my father approached me in the living room one day and said he wanted to know what it was that I found so intriguing about the Orthodox Church. I tried to answer him, and it created this whole big thing with my entire family arguing with me.

When you started going to St. Mary’s, is that when you stopped attending his church?

No. My girlfriend and I became catechumens, and we were Chrismated on Holy Saturday of that year. But I think I was in the most unique situation out of anybody. For maybe my first two years, to keep peace with my family, I would leave the Liturgy at a certain time and go to my dad’s church and play piano, just as an act of good faith. I even spoke with my priest about it. I was also working for another Pentecostal church during the evenings on Sundays.

So, you were a devoted Orthodox Christian, but you were still playing in two Pentecostal services every week.

Yeah, yeah. It was definitely interesting, but after a while it began to take a toll on my spiritual life. I had a conversation with my dad. At first, he didn't take it very well, but he became OK with it pretty quickly. Then I had a conversation with the music director at the church where I was playing at Sunday evenings. They took it so hard.

I think it's been a whole two years since I've stopped playing consistently at Pentecostal churches. Once or twice a year a friend invites me to play keys at some sort of event, and it's usually not even a service.

What you’re describing is almost like when someone is a minister in a different tradition, and they have to give up their job to convert. Not many converts have to give up this much.

Yeah, for sure. And I would do it again.

No hesitation, huh?

I'm home. It's where I was meant to be. Christ was waiting for me all along and I'm glad to finally be home.

Is there anything you miss about the Pentecostal church?

No, not really. I might if I had lost a lot of relationships when I left, but I didn't. My best friends to this day are still Pentecostal. We meet once a month for tacos or something. And we're all very supportive of each other. The day I was Chrismated, they were all there.

So, I don't really miss anything. I think the Pentecostal church prepared me to be Orthodox, in a sense, because it puts a big emphasis on prayer and having a personal relationship with God, where prayer is key. Your walk has to be personal. In the Orthodox church, that's what it's all about. It's ultimately about becoming one with God.

What do you think about the music situation in Orthodoxy? Pentecostals tend to have more resources invested in music than the OCA.

Well, at St. Mary’s, I think we do pretty well. We have a good choir. While we're not playing elaborate gospel music, our hymns are all prayer. I don't think there's anything more beautiful than that.

Do you miss connecting with other Dominicans at church?

I feel OK with it because the church, as I understand it, is the Kingdom. To me, that's first and foremost. It’s the Kingdom of God, where all ethnicities come together to worship Him, you know? I cherish my ethnicity, but I'm a Christian first, then everything else second.

Have you encountered many other Latinos in the Orthodox Church?

Just two. A good friend of mine sings in the St. Mary’s choir. He used to be a choir director of another church, and he plays the trumpet. Before I was choir director, he heard me sing. We added each other on Facebook. He saw that I had a picture of me playing the piano and he asked me to be in his band without ever hearing me play. I told him that he had a lot of faith. What if I'm not good? It all worked out and we've been playing music ever since. We do shows around the city at times.

It’s clear that the honeymoon with Orthodoxy is not over for you.

I don't think it ever will be. When somebody asks me what is it that I love about it, I say, "Everything." There's not a thing I don't like. There will be ups and downs in my spiritual walk, but when it comes to how I feel about the Orthodox Church, that's never going to change. “Lord have mercy,” you know? Who knows what the future holds? But, yeah.

Interview by Nick Tabor

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