Et Cetera Edition 1, 2023: Conversations Over Coffee

JUNE

2023

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ISSUE

I

INTRODUCTION

Et Cetera is the flagship publication of the Deakin Law Students' Society (DLSS). It seeks to reflect the Deakin Law School zeitgeist of the time, and resonates with the interests of Deakin Law students. It aims to provoke thoughtful discussion about issues relevant to our readers as students, future legal professionals and citizens of the world.

Ever wish you could sit down and have a coffee with every legal professional you see on LinkedIn and pick their brain? We certainly do. That has been the inspiration for Trimester One's edition of 'Et Cetera'. Flick through conversations with lawyers who practice everything from criminal to commercial law, and everything in between.

EDITORIAL Design

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Jordan Cook

Editor-in-Chief

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Zoe Ellis

Editor

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Jordan Cook

Editor

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Chamodhi Polwatta

Editor

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Chrissa Karouzakis

CONTRIBUTORS

Gavin Choong, Grata Fund

Madeleine Van Basten Batenburg

Shiri Krebs

David Coombes

John Petras

Alexandra Gonos

Michael Stafford

Stuart Lewin

Jason Walker

Katrina Davis

Mari Chaffey Jones

Jim Bisas

Stuart Wood

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ABOUT THE DEAKIN LAW STUDENTS' SOCIETY

The Deakin Law Students’ Society (DLSS) is one of Deakin University’s oldest and largest student societies.

We are a student-run organisation which aims to assist Deakin law students in making the most of their time at law school.

Across our portfolios, we work to provide a range of events and services to assist you at every stage of your degree. Whether you want to improve your grades or make new friends, the DLSS is your one-stop shop for all things law at Deakin.

DISCLAIMER This publication is provided free of charge by the Deakin Law Students’ Society. Any opinions expressed in this publication are not to be held as those of the DLSS, Deakin Law School or Deakin University. The DLSS, Deakin Law School and Deakin University do not necessarily endorse these opinions; they belong solely to the authors.

COPYRIGHT This publication is subject to copyright. Except where permitted under the Copyright Act, no part of this publication may, in any form or by any means (electronic or otherwise) be reproduced or stored in a retrieval system or transmitted by any process, without prior written consent from the DLSS.

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PRESIDENT'S FOREWORD Julia Fittipaldi, 2023 President Hello all, and welcome.

I am very honoured to introduce you to the Communications teams’ most spectacular publication, and what I feel is a very special edition of Et Cetera.

This edition of Et Cetera has been a thought provoking triumph, and for me, has afforded an unexpected though appreciated selfreflection on all I have learned and all I am yet to learn. As of May 2023, a.k.a “peak assessment season”, I , and I’m sure many of you, find myself deeply entrenched in my (4th year of) studies. For some reason, 2023 has felt like a bit of an uphill battle in juggling assessments, a course load, and full-time work.

As I observe my peers and engage with all of you, I have noticed that many of my struggles are reflected back to me. The expectations of networking, knowing what to say, what to do and what you want, getting legal experience, and CV building so that we’re prepared for the legal workforce; all seem equal parts daunting, thrilling and endless.

Despite feeling challenged by many of the same themes in my 1st year as I am now, I realise that what most Law students have in common is that we are often suspended in this state of anticipation and determination, reward and exhaustion. To that end, the keen insights offered in this edition of Et Cetera are as informative as they are comforting.

We (Law students) often find ourselves in the habit of contextualizing the Law, and our futures, as this obscure and unattainable beast, what started as an interest and a passion can often become distorted by assessments and the expectations we place on ourselves.

Nevertheless, as someone who often contextualises my own world view through the literature and media I consume (Jane Austen, Gilmore Girls, Tiktok… I don’t discriminate), this publication has been a refreshing reminder of the dynamic relationships which attracted me to the Legal sector in the first place. It has provided a welcome relief during this academically demanding portion of the year, in reframing the Law through a thoroughly enjoyable read of intriguing, informative and helpful topics, from workplace dynamics in the legal sector; to notable changes on the horizon, and useful advice for Law students.

I would like to sincerely thank my Communications team, who have worked so hard on bringing you all this edition of Et Cetera. And while I am sure you will all have unique takeaways from this publication, I hope that you find it as inspiring a read as I have.

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DIRECTOR'S FOREWORD Zoe Ellis, 2023 Director of Communications In early 2021, I sat down for a coffee with a lawyer turned writer. She was everything I want to be; she'd had a successful legal career, and transitioned to an award-winning fiction writer. In the hours she graciously gave me, I learned about how to maximise my law school experience and where I could go to gain some legal experience. Of course, we also had some laughs over stories from her own time as a law student. I left that café buzzing, excited about putting her advice into practice and keen to meet with more people who could broaden my understanding of the law and life.

But life happened, as it does, and the next time I engaged in anything that could be considered 'networking' was at a DLSS event more than a year later. Despite what I might wish, the life of a university student isn't just getting coffee and chatting with people. Funnily enough, meeting people for coffee requires you to actually....meet people...and organise things...who knew?

Nearly 2 years later, I was considering how to refresh Et Cetera, and put out an edition I thought students could really connect with. I wanted something that someone could flick through, read an article at a time, and feel like they had gained something more than a rudimentary understanding of a lawyer's practice area. It was then I remembered that conversation over coffee, and I realised that the Communications team had an opportunity to do for our cohort what that lawyer was able to do for me.

The Communications team has worked hard this trimester to bring you a series of interviews with legal professionals. My wonderful officers have curated a selection of conversations that will make you feel as if it was you on the other side of a table, chatting away with professionals that have so much to offer. I cannot speak more highly of the way the Communications officers—Jordan, Charm and Chrissa— have worked to bring you this edition. As an extra treat, we also have a fantastic article written for us by the Grata Fund; it is not quite an interview, but once you read it, I promise you won't mind.

I hope that when you read these articles, you feel comforted hearing about the experiences of those who have come before you. I hope you are excited about what a future in the law holds. And most of all, I hope it encourages you to reach out and try and have a real conversation of your own. The learning we are doing in classrooms is vital and valuable, but the experiences we can have when we put ourselves out there and meet people are are something else all together.

So, I encourage you to sit down, grab a coffee (or tea!), and enjoy Et Cetera, Edition 1, 2023.

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CONTENTS

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First Nations Leaders Sue Commonwealth Over Climate Change

Alternative Pathways in the Legal Field: Working in Academia

13

From Little Interest in the Law to Becoming a Barrister at the Victorian Bar

Working in Workplace Relations Practicing Employment Law

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16

A Detailed Look into Family Law

DLSS Hearsay

21

9

A Conversation with an Immigration Lawyer

5

20

23

Becoming a King’s Counsel

Madeleine van Basten Batenburg’s Journey to Becoming a Police Lawyer

29

Corporate, Commercial and Taxation Law

DLSS Satire: Damages Incurred

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35

Working as an Australian Government Solicitor Working as a Criminal Barrister

41

32

Working as an Employment Lawyer

Understanding Commercial Law

37

25

DLSS Little Failures

6

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FIRST NATIONS LEADERS SUE COMMONWEALTH OVER CLIMATE CHANGE Late last year, the Queensland Land Court recommended the refusal of Clive Palmer’s proposed Galilee Coal Project in Waratah Coal v Youth Verdict (No 6).

the Commonwealth has unlawfully breached its duty of care to protect the people, islands, and culture of the Torres Strait.

This duty arises in part from the Torres Strait Treaty between Australia and Papua New Guinea, signed in 1978, which established a Protected Zone to preserve the ‘‘traditional way of life and livelihood of traditional inhabitants.”

In its decision, the Land Court considered the importance of the “distinct cultural rights” held by First Nations peoples in Queensland, which are protected under legislation.

President Kingham of the Land Court found that emissions from the Galilee Coal Project would contribute to “rising sea levels near Cairns and in the Torres Strait”. In turn, this would accelerate the “displacement” of First Nations peoples living on coastal and low-lying islands, leading to the destruction of places of cultural significance.

Uncle Paul Kabai (right) describes how long-standing tradition dictates newborns on Saibai are to have their umbilical cord buried underneath a native tree. The cord is a living symbol of the child’s place in their clan, and their connection to island custom.

While Clive Palmer’s coal mine may not be going ahead, 65,000 years of First Nations culture remains at risk. Those living in the Guda Maluyligal Nation and others across the Torres Strait still fear their homes will be swallowed by the sea, by the turn of the century.

“I don’t know if my grandchildren will be able to [continue this tradition],” Uncle Paul says.

“The saltwater is killing my island, Saibai’s trees.”

​L e f t with no other choice, Uncle Pabai Pabai and Uncle Paul Kabai, Traditional Owners of Boigu Island and Saibai Island respectively, have turned to the courts for help so that their communities will not be forced to flee their island homes.

The two community leaders are arguing that, by failing to set more ambitious emissions targets, 7

If the Government does not take urgent climate action, Torres Strait Islanders are at risk of becoming Australia’s first climate refugees.

This would mark another chapter in the fraught history of dispossession and cultural erasure experienced by First Nations peoples in this country.

The Australian Climate Case is supported by Grata Fund, a not-for-profit that supports marginalised communities and advocates for their legal rights. Grata Fund removes the financial barriers that prevent public interest test cases like this one from going ahead.

Uncle Pabai and Uncle Paul’s case, the Australian Climate Case, has been developed in partnership with the Urgenda Foundation, a team of international legal experts who have a proven record of successful climate change litigation.

The hearing for the Australian Climate Case will commence in June 2023. In the meantime, people around the country are supporting Uncle Pabai and Uncle Paul’s case by submitting stories about the climate impacts they have witnessed in their communities: from bushfires to floods, coastal erosion, heatwaves, mental health impacts and seasonal changes.

By sharing the climate impacts they have experienced, Australians are showing the Government that climate change is already at our doorstep, affecting all Australians. You can join the movement by sharing your climate story here.

In 2013, representing the interests of 886 citizens, the Urgenda Foundation took the Dutch Government to court for not doing enough to prevent the impacts of climate change.

They were successful at every stage of appeal, with a final victory in the Dutch Supreme Court in 2019. Aside from being the first tort case taken against a government challenging climate inaction, it also reflected the fact that “governments have binding legal obligations, based on international human rights law, to undertake strong reductions in emissions of greenhouse gases.”

Find out more about the case and how you can stand behind Uncle Pabai and Uncle Paul at australianclimatecase.org.au Gavin Choong Volunteer Associate, Fund

As a result of the groundbreaking case, the Netherlands now has some of the most ambitious climate policies in the world. Urgenda’s case has become an inspiration for people around the world fighting for climate action through the judicial system.

Grata

Gavin is a fifth-year law student at Monash University studying a Bachelor of Laws (Honours) and Biomedical Science. Currently a Volunteer Associate at Grata Fund and global youth spokesperson at Amnesty International, Gavin is a passionate climate justice advocate. He hopes to raise awareness surrounding the Australian Climate Case through his work.

Uncle Pabai and Uncle Paul are represented by class action firm Phi Finney McDonald.

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ALTERNATIVE PATHWAYS IN THE LEGAL FIELD: WORKING IN ACADEMIA Shiri Krebs in Conversation with Chrissa Karouzakis

Shiri Krebs is a Professor of Law at Deakin University, who won the Researcher of the Year Award in the Women in Law Awards 2022 for her work in Law and Technology.

I thought of Law as the tool or mechanism for change, and International Relation provided a deeper understanding of international politics.

Why did you choose academia as opposed to private practice?

Why did you choose to study law?

When I was young, I actually wanted to be a teacher, but growing up in an area divided by war and conflict shifted my attention to international and human rights law as a means to affect change in the world.

I always thought that private practice would be too limiting for my main areas of interest. I also didn’t think about academia when I went into law.

Instead, I was passionate about human rights’ activism or an influential legal work within government bodies or the judiciary.

When I was in High School, it became clear to me that I wanted to study law and use it as a tool for social change. I was very politically active during my High School years. At first, mainly from a feminist perspective: I was bothered by all kinds of systemic differences between boys and girls at school, including classes and sports offerings, and fought for equality.

I started off working at the High Court of Israel. First as an intern and later as legal advisor to the Chief Justice.

After five years at the Court, I decided to pursue doctorate studies to be able to focus on issues I was passionate about rather than be constrained by institutional bureaucracy and structures.

Growing up in Israel, there was always the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in the background, which got me interested in Human Rights and International Law. I knew I wanted to use law to advance political goals.

I worked for a few months at the Israeli Democracy Institute developing policy papers on human rights and counterterrorism, and then I moved to the United States to begin my doctorate studies at Stanford.

I studied law and international relations because I wanted to be involved in peace-building.

Whilst working on my doctorate research,

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I thought at first that I would return to Israel following my studies to practice international law in a government setting or an NGO. But I fell in love with the freedom that sometimes comes with academic research: the creativity and possibility to work on problems you find important. I also enjoy teaching and the opportunity to work with many people from diverse backgrounds and interests.

Unlike serving as a legal advisor to a Justice of the High Court, in Academia, you write in your own voice, raising your opinions and focusing on what you see as important. This type of work felt right for me, and I wanted to continue doing it. So when I finished my doctorate, I found my way to Deakin...

What is the most part of your job?

rewarding

The most rewarding part of my job is the impact of what I do.

Part of this impact is through teaching and one-on-one interactions with students.

Another part is through my publications and the difference they make in the world.

For example, one of my recent research projects examines the effects of predictive technologies on preventing counter-terrorism processes. I have been invited to deliver presentations and workshops on my research findings to senior military leaders and lawyers in the Australian Defence Force as well as the United States military. I was also invited to brief members of the United Nations Security Council about my research at the United Nations Headquarters in New York in March 2023, ‘

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which was a unique opportunity to influence global conversations and United Nations resolutions in this area of counterterrorism.

‘

It has been rewarding to see this research being adopted by decision-makers in Australia and internationally, making a difference in the world.

What is the most challenging aspect of your career?

The most challenging part of being an academic is dealing with rejection and failure. It’s all about you and it always feels personal. You put yourself out there, and sometimes you’re successful but more often you are unsuccessful.

Every time you get a rejection for a paper or a grant it triggers self-doubt.

When things do go your way, it feels wonderful. But, the next day there is another rejection, like an emotional rollercoaster.

I am, of course, very grateful for the successes that come along: this year has been particularly positive for me and for my research, gaining international recognition and seeing my research adopted at the highest levels. At the same time, I continue to get rejections and these continue to feel personal… The important thing is not to get distracted by those rejections and not to lose confidence in yourself.

What is the best way to cope with rejection?

I don’t think there is a best way to cope with rejection.

Everyone is different. For me, I let it sink in for a day or two (or a week…).

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I let myself feel the disappointment and hurt. And then I let it go and plan my next move, learning from the experience, taking what I can from it, and using it to improve my work.

which was unique. It has been particularly meaningful for me, as it is an industry award, recognising the significance of my work in my profession and professional community.

This award was especially meaningful for me, as a new member of Australian academia (having been in Australia for only five years). It made me feel that I am where I should be, that I belong and that my work is appreciated and respected.

What is your advice for future students interested in Pursuing a Career in Academia?

Be creative, be imaginative, and believe in yourself and in your ideas. Find someone to mentor you, someone who can support your work, read and provide comments and advice.

The honours program is probably the most direct pathway into Academia.

Did you feel that being a woman made your journey in academia more challenging?

I think I was lucky in my journey to not be openly or meaningfully discriminated against. I always had female (and male) mentors and supervisors, who had my back and provided useful advice.

There are always more minor incidents and criticisms you only receive as a woman (for example, being perceived as aggressive or too loud). But I never let that stop me; it only made me louder… While some doors did shut, others opened.

It’s important to use negative experiences to feed your drive and to motivate you to open other doors.

What would you do differently in your legal journey?

I don’t think I would do anything differently in my legal journey.

If you change one detail, everything else can change as well.

Whatever mistakes and wrong turns I took, I am very happy where it landed me, and I wouldn’t want to jeopardise that.

Do you like working in Australia as an Academic as opposed to other Countries?

Comparing it to the US, I find a better work-life balance in Australia. In my experience, the work rhythm in the US can be much more intense.. I also like the outdoors and wildlife in Australia, and find much of my inspiration while hiking and exploring nature.

In my area, which is military decision making, I was often the only woman in the room; an experience that can be uncomfortable. Today, I bring that to the attention of the organisers at any event that do not have equal gender representation and often condition my participation by having appropriate gender representation of both presenters and keynote speakers.

What was it like winning the Researcher of the Year award in 2022?

Winning this award was almost surreal, at a very big and loud event, where you find out if you won or not in real time

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FROM LITTLE INTEREST IN THE LAW TO BECOMING A BARRISTER AT THE VICTORIAN BAR John Petras in Conversation with Chamodhi Polwatta

From little interest in the law, to becoming a barrister at the Victorian Bar, Mr John Petras discusses his experiences leading up to becoming a barrister and illustrates the demanding nature of his role.

He highlights the value of experiences such as volunteering and mooting, and encourages students to gain as much practical experience as possible whilst studying law.

I was allocated into a Reader’s course beginning in September 2021. In need of employment in the meanwhile, I took a job as an associate to Judge Misso at the County Court and ended up deferring into a later reader’s course in March 2022 so that I could fulfil the basic one-year contract required of a judge’s associate.

While I was nervous at the time about delaying my start as a barrister, it was a decision that I could not be more pleased with. As a judge’s associate I could witness the law in action.

The best part about being a judge’s associate was witnessing hearings, seeing it day in, day out, and therefore gaining familiarity with the courtroom. Discussing the ins and outs with a judge was also a highlight of the role. I was a solicitor in injury law prior to becoming a Judge’s Associate and my judge was also primarily from injury law, so we were able to engage in sophisticated discussions about the law.

When I enrolled in law school, I had no background in the law at all. During the first few years of study, I struggled to maintain interest in the content taught.

My passion for the law began when I first tried my hand at mooting. It was the first time I felt I had control over the legal argument, which I never felt I had within the time constraints of written examinations.

Mooting is an incredible experience for students, and I highly recommend it as it is a great way to practice advocating and applying the law. Through mooting, I was hired for my first job in the legal industry as a Law Clerk at Robinson Gill. After a few years of working there, I graduated law school and became a solicitor. By that stage, I was certain that I wanted to work for the Bar, so I took time off work to study for the exam.

You truly start learning once you start working. University is just a stepping-stone. I believe that a person’s sense for the law does not come from study, it comes from experience.

Experience is where legal principles are actualised and where you will have burned into your memory the very real and very tangible effects of the law.

After passing the Bar exam in December 2020,

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Once you start to get a sense of what the law is, what legal culture is like, and what lawyers are like, you also start to read decisions in a much more fluent way.

Reading decisions becomes much more like reading a newspaper, and you will start to find pleasure in what was previously a chore.

There will also be aspects in practice that you will link back to what you learnt in law school, and you will finally understand for the first time what you had previously rote learned as a meaningless set of rules.

A key tension of being a barrister is that you are often expected to be both the advocate and the principal lawyer who is responsible for keeping all the paperwork in order.

Therefore, some days are largely focused on reading through paperwork or giving advice about the strategy to be adopted in a particular matter.

There are huge amounts of documents to read through and it never feels like there is enough time to get through it all – although I guarantee that this skill will improve dramatically over time. Some days it feels like a paperwork race against the clock while juggling calls from your instructors regarding advice needed on certain matters.

Otherwise, you are appearing in court.

What does a day in the life of a Barrister look like?

A day in the life of a barrister can be chaotic. One thing worth noting for students aspiring to become a barrister is that there is a lot of chaos and uncertainty.

When briefed for a court appearance, it can either be very last minute or well in advance, depending on a variety of factors including, the urgency of the underlying case (for example, seeking an injunction), the preparedness of your instructor, and the willingness of the client to invest in having you on board at an early stage.

As a barrister, you are an independent contractor receiving briefs from solicitors, and it is usually with very short notice. A large part of being a barrister is receiving briefs last minute, having the ability to absorb everything quickly, and then presenting it before a court. This is why mooting is such fantastic preparation, because it is quite similar to the experience of a barrister.

A typical experience of a junior barrister is to receive last minute briefs to appear the following day from an instructor that you have never heard of, and who is briefing you because their usual barristers weren’t available.

We call this a ‘hospital hand pass.’

While very stressful, these can often be the foundation for long relationships with these instructors.

As independent businesspeople, barristers can work when they choose to work. However, not working often can affect business as it relies heavily on maintaining relationships with clients. It is an unpredictable business and therefore you need many potential leads. As a barrister, you are unaware of when you may or may not receive work and therefore there are times when maintaining relationships provoke you to work more and that is something you will have to learn to manage.

‘

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Over time barristers tend to form relationships with instructors, and its usually in the context of those relationships that you are likely to be briefed ahead of time.

That is the complexion of appearance work; it is either short notice or a bit more structured and in the context of an existing relationship.

I am a big believer in doing things. It is better to go through with a half-baked plan, than to do nothing (although obviously try not half-bake your plans!)

Also, do not be afraid of making mistakes. You are allowed to get things wrong when you are young; so lean into it and learn as much as you can.

As a barrister, you must enjoy the law in some sense. When I came to appreciate what the law was, I began to really enjoy figuring out how to argue it and apply it. If you do not enjoy the law at some level, it can be tough going.

Of course, different people might enjoy the law in vastly different ways, and at different times, but it is difficult to imagine coping with the heavy workload of a barrister without some kind of passion for the law.

Do you have any aspiring lawyers?

advice

for

I recommend volunteering. It is such an invaluable experience.

You are involved in making a big impact on lives and it really gives you an insight into the law and what to expect, especially when entering a job in the legal field.

Small law firms, especially, can be great in terms of having more input in the work and being assigned impactful and varied tasks.

If you find yourself just treading water and getting through life, that is often a problem. You need to stop, figure out what you want, and what you can do to get there. You need to have a goal and do as much as you can to get towards it. Every good thing that has happened to me has come out of doing something, as opposed to not doing something, and all the regrets I have relate to not doing something when I could have done that something.

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WORKING IN WORKPLACE RELATIONS PRACTICING practical legal training through EMPLOYMENT LAW Leo Cussens, I took two years off to travel and live abroad in Canada and Europe. Upon my return I sought full time work, but I didn’t find a job immediately as it can be a highly competitive to get your first job. However, I stuck with it knowing I had the skills to be an asset to any team - it paid off. After a few years working in a private law firm, I moved in house to Deakin and haven’t looked back.

Michael Stafford Michael Stafford is part of Deakin University’s Workplace Relations Team. He primarily practices Employment Law. Why did you choose to study employment law?

I didn’t specifically choose this as an area of study. Studying law at University requires that you get experience in many areas of law. While studying, I gained paralegal experience in criminal, family, and administrative and insurance law. When I was first looking at jobs, I focused on applying for ones relating to the subjects I found more interesting. Luckily for me, I got a job in employment law which is a very dynamic area of law that evolves quickly based on the policies of the government of the day.

What is the most rewarding part of the legal field?

In my area of practice, I help maintain an employment environment that supports people and helps them manage difficult periods in their life and produce their best work.

Doing this at a University has the added perk of contributing to a workplace that is endeavouring to solve generational issues through technology, research and knowledge transfer to students.

What is the best thing about the legal field?

Do you have any future students?

There’s a good camaraderie within the legal professionI’ve made friends for life.

What law?

was

your

journey

advice

to

Get involved!

There are so many support mechanisms, programs, and people who support up-andcoming lawyers. Put yourself out there and you will see opportunities unfold.

Also, there’s more than one path to get where you want to go so keep chipping away.

into

After finishing school, I studied Arts at Monash University. I then chose to study law because it offered me an opportunity to obtain a diverse skillset that could be used in a multitude of ways in the future.

I studied law at Deakin because they offered online classes (something which wasn’t very common at the time). This enabled me to work while studying.

After completing my degrees and the subsequent

Finally, are there interesting cases you worked on?

any have

I was involved in a case which ultimately clarified an important and previously uncertain legal issue regarding enterprise bargaining.

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A DETAILED LOOK INTO FAMILY LAW Jason Walker Family Lawyer Jason Walker has had countless years of experience, specialising in more intricate areas such as complex parenting matters, and financial litigation, he offers invaluable insight into such an intriguing area.

Over the two years I worked there, I was given the opportunity to rotate through several teams and was exposed to more than just family law - everything from entertainment and media law, corporate law and litigation and wills and estates, all of which became a really valuable foundation for pursuing a fulltime career in family law in 2000, when I joined a bigger law firm. This position was something I found out about through word of mouth, it wasn't advertised. In the end, I was the only candidate, that got the job offer and accepted it. I went on to work there for 22 years until June 2021, moving through the ranks of lawyer to Associate, to Senior Associate, to Partner in September 2009. In July 2021, I joined my current practice, a specialist boutique practice in family law.

Why did you decide to pursue family law and can you detail your journey to becoming a family lawyer?

I have a theory that you become a family lawyer either by design or by default. Many family lawyers accidentally find their way into family law, never having had the intention of practising in the area at law school or upon graduation.

There are fewer of us who become family lawyers by design. Once I had done all the compulsory (boring) units of my law degree, I elected to study family law.

I finally found a subject which resonated with me as being an area where I could make a career. It was a combination of factors: it would fulfil my naïve and perhaps, lofty ambitions of wanting to help people and it was a fascinating and complex area of law, with a real human dynamic, combining almost every area of law plus social science.

Has there ever been a point in which you have regretted your decision to enter family law?

No. There have been very challenging days – the complexity of dealing with clients in emotional distress, family violence issues, demanding deadlines, etc. which have been challenging, but those challenges have been all the more rewarding when you are able to find solutions.

I cannot imagine working in any other area of law and love the variety that family law presents each and every day as we navigate clients through their relationship breakdown and onto the next phase of their life.

I finished law school in 1997. I got career advice from a couple of lecturers at law school as to who I should apply to for what was then, Articles of Clerkship.

I applied to several different firms – mostly suburban firms, as that was where the bulk of family law work was being done, and ultimately accepted an offer at a boutique commercial firm with a family law practice.

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How was the journey to becoming an accredited family law specialist?

What is your opinion on becoming involved in not only your practice, but outside organisations too?

The Law Institute of Victoria runs an accreditation program in various areas of law, including family law. In 2005, I undertook the accreditation program in family law which required you to do a threehour exam, a client interview (with an actor pretending to be a client), and a written piece of work which required you to prepare a detailed letter of advice and court documents. It was an arduous process. In my year, I was one of a handful of successful candidates.

The pass rate is notoriously low.

But I vowed to be a better student studying for my accreditation than I was at law school. Hours were consumed in studying at night and on weekends in a way that I never applied myself at law school.

Getting my accreditation became a real badge of pride and an affirmation that I knew what I was doing. But the learning didn't end there. As a practising lawyer, I have to do 12 hours of continuing professional development per year.

I see that as the minimum, rather than the maximum. As the law changes, through legislative reform, rule reform, and with new judgments from the High Court and appeal court, you have to keep up to date.

I was encouraged by my mentor, Rose Lockie, the partner with whom I worked for, to get involved with the Law Institute of Victoria as a junior lawyer.

Rose herself had been involved with the LIV for many years and knew it to be important for career development, networking and for the fun of being involved in a member organisation. As a junior lawyer, I joined the Children and Youth Issues Subcommittee of the Family Law Section of the Law Institute of Victoria. I might not have said much, if anything, for the first 12 months – there was a lot of active listening.

The Committee had a number of the top family lawyers at that time, including Tim Mulvany, David Schetzer, David Edney and Joe Gorman – true leaders in the profession. I learned lots from them through that Committee. I found being an involved member rewarding on many levels. When I was at law school, I had my existing stable of friends and, at times, was ambivalent about becoming a lawyer. Since I didn't fit the Law Review (or Law Revue) profile, I really didn't bother to engage or get involved. Because of my pride and prejudice, I didn't see a value to any of those things and it was really only through getting involved in the LIV and other organisations that I began to really connect.

To undertake the accredited specialist program, you must have six years post admission experience. The accreditation program is something I would recommend for all lawyers practising in family law: it was a great personal affirmation, and many employers regarded it as a valuable commodity.

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Being involved in these activities has become a great balance to what are, at times, difficult, challenging and draining elements of working in family law. It's something I've really enjoyed and I'm a better lawyer because of those connections and involvement.

I would encourage everyone to be actively engaged at law school and to resist learning completely online.

The benefits and opportunities at being at university are so much more than just simply getting a degree and, in the same way, for those practising in law, to recognise the benefits of being part of a professional member organisation.

Jason Walker is a Partner at Forte Family Lawyers. He is accredited by the Law Institute of Victoria as a specialist in Family Law and is a Fellow of the International Academy of Family Lawyers.

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EARSAY H S S L D 'Poison has never been a cool way to win a war.'

Law students are an interesting bunch...

Please enjoy these quotes from the trimester as much as we did!

'Man this is daunting' says the new Partner at work trying to figure out which bin his teabag goes in.

'Netball is really just "fake basketball".'

'What is an "MTV Cribs"?'

'Are you doing classes in that big fancy building? It's so nice.' - First Years discussing the Law Building

The tram driver referring to the passengers on the tram as the "Tramily."

'That jumper is the best thing I've seen designed from Deakin, whoever designed that did amazing' - Servo cashier talking about our Deakin Law Crewnecks.

Seminar leader discusses the definition of 'dispossess.'

Meanwhile, a colleague says, 'I googled it and it says otherwise...'

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A CONVERSATION WITH AN IMMIGRATION LAWYER Mari Chaffey Jones in Conversation with Chamodhi Polwatta

A conversation with Miss Mari Chaffey Jones, an immigration lawyer from AHWC Immigration Law, enabled the quelling of several law myths and eased a magnitude of stress students are burdened with today. She discusses her path from being an immigration lawyer, to a criminal lawyer, and then back to being an immigration lawyer.

She discusses the invaluable experience she received from each role and the positives and negatives of each role.

Sometimes I would be reading a client’s police brief in the Uber on route to see the client.

However, in criminal law, there was potential to make a bigger difference in the lives of clients.

Immigration law is a bit more relaxed in nature if you are prepared and aware of deadlines. You are given more time to prepare each case. but what’s interesting is that the law is always changing and evolving, keeping you very engaged and on your toes.

What was the path from Immigration to Criminal to Immigration Law?

What does a day in the life of an Immigration Lawyer look like?

I initially started off in migration law and was offered a position in criminal defence law. I walked into immigration law not knowing anything. Just completely blind. I hadn’t even taken it as an elective in law school. But the firm that had hired me was completely understanding of this and supported me. So do not be worried if you do not know anything when entering the field because firms expect that, and they will support you.

We hear all the time, and even in our textbooks, that law is a profession that encompasses 60 – 80-hour work weeks, and that it is the norm. For law students starting out, this may stand as a huge discouragement for pursuing law. Luckily for us, Miss Mari Chaffey Jones was able to quell that myth by clarifying that not all firms adopt the 60 – 80-hour work week. In fact, Miss Jones says she works standard hours from 9 – 5:30pm (with reasonable overtime when required) and has autonomy to plan her day.

She is also granted early finishes on Fridays. and work from home days where she does not need to come into the office.

Being a criminal defence lawyer can be very stressful. The main issue is the lack of time you get to prepare for each case. The lack of time was a very challenging aspect of being a criminal lawyer because it meant that you didn’t have much time to prepare for cases and that meant not being able to produce your best work.

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I work from 9 – 5:30pm. I plan my day according to what needs to be done. Typically, in the morning I will spend an hour replying to emails and then I will do some consultations for potential clients, and then spend a few hours making case notes, emailing the potential clients, and then work on any active case files.

Also, my advice is to get involved as much as possible.

Seize any opportunity that comes your way and participate in events held by Deakin such as mooting.

These opportunities will definitely help improve your legal skills and will prepare you for your work in the field.

Planning my day is entirely up to me, with the exception of meetings. We have targets to meet which means that we must ensure that we keep bringing in clients and that we keep completing existing files. So, as soon as we feel like one case is coming to an end, we have to sign on another client. I don’t do much work outside of the firm.

‘

I might do about 5 hours per week on top of my normal working hours if I have an urgent case that needs working on. I typically come into work an hour or two earlier to complete this work.

What advice would you give an aspiring young lawyer?

My advice would be to build up soft skills. Whilst it is still important to learn the hard skills, it is also important to be able to display those [hard] skills in practice by using soft skills. Communication is key in the field.

You can be an amazing lawyer with amazing knowledge on the law, but it won’t matter if you don’t have the practical skills to convey your knowledge. As a lawyer, you need to sell yourself to gain your client’s trust and to show that what you’re offering is of value to the client. To do so, you need exceptional people skills and communication skills.

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BECOMING A KING’S COUNSEL Stuart Wood in conversation with Jordan Cook King’s Counsel Stuart Wood has had an impressive career in law spanning 30 years. We were lucky enough to sit down and listen to him speak about his journey into law, and what he believes is crucial in being able to succeed in your chosen field.

The unfair dismissal regime came in, and brought so much work [into my current law firm] that we ended up needing to brief all these barristers … we were briefing a barrister [for a case] and he didn’t even end up coming to court for the case we had briefed him on and I remember thinking, if I go to the bar I can do better - at least I can turn up.

Graduating from Melbourne Law School with both a degree in Law and Organic Chemistry, Stuart found he had developed a passion for industrial relations, and was able to begin working at one of the top law firms concerning this area.

It was working with barristers that initially instigated the idea to become one himself.

He also highlights advocacy as another of his main reasons.

The very good advocates and courtroom performers are barristers. It’s hard to do the same thing if you're a solicitor, because it’s a lot to manage both clients and advocacy. If you want to do court craft, 99 times out of 100 you have to come to the bar, it’s not done to the same standard at a law firm. At a firm, there’s no one to talk to or learn from, whereas at the bar, you have a lot more experience and discussion with other barristers, it’s like a surgeon and a general practitioner.

I researched who were the best firms and the best partners [in my chosen field], and then found out where one of the partners was speaking.

It was through analysis of where I wanted to go so I could narrow it down … Being able to narrow down who you want to work with made it very easy as they knew you wanted to be there and you had done your research.

Stuart’s comments emphasise the importance of networking in order to work in your chosen area. After working at a law firm for a couple of years, he decided to become a barrister and details that transition, initially starting as a young solicitor.

Once a barrister, Stuart slowly began his progression, the journey to becoming a King’s Counsel takes around ten to twenty years for most people.

He highlights the difficult work required and the skills needed to attain such a coveted position.

When I started as a lawyer there were no unfair dismissal laws, bullying laws, there were sex and racial discrimination laws but they were making little impact.

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It’s about finding a solution that everyone is broadly happy with. This means a lot of compromises and trying to bring a coalition of people together whilst being calm despite how much is at stake.

There is around one in ten barristers who are KCs… you have to slowly work your way up and build on your skills. A lot of work is required to be a successful lawyer as there is not only a technical side but also a client facing side which requires soft skills. In big, high profile cases, hard skills are important but they’re often outweighed by the soft skills.

Stuart concludes the interview with the notion that if you have the passion, you’ll find law to be a really worthwhile and rewarding profession, something that means a great deal coming from someone who has dedicated their entire professional life to the law.

Soft skills are something that Stuart emphasises heavily, he describes a young lawyer’s journey beginning with being rewarded on your technical skills but then once you reach a certain level, your ability starts to develop more from soft skills, which take a lot of time and initially aren’t something you’re necessarily taught or acknowledged for.

‘

How would you say you’ve developed your soft skills?

Through making lots of mistakes, being honest with the mistakes, and listening.

When people talk about listening, it’s more about sitting in someone else’s shoes and trying to see the world from their perspective. It takes a lot of practice of anchoring yourself in someone else’s shoes. You have to figure out a client’s needs and goals and give them a voice.

Stuart has additionally been at the forefront of a multitude of high profile cases, taking on an impressive list of cases. He elaborates on this unique experience and the skills required for such a case.

You have to be very calm in the high profile cases because there’s a team of people involved, you have to try and get along with everyone.

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MADELEINE VAN BASTEN BATENBURG’S JOURNEY TO BECOMING A POLICE LAWYER

Miss Madeleine van Basten Batenburg, a Police Lawyer working in the Senior Advocacy Team at Victoria Police, discusses her journey on a non-traditional pathway to becoming a Police Lawyer. She demonstrates the value of exploring opportunities and the importance of finding an area of law that you are most passionate about. She unveils her own struggles on her journey as well as her strength to stand her ground with the belief that she will get to where she needs to be.

Madeleine has taken on many job opportunities and volunteer positions aimed at assisting others, such as volunteering to help young Sudanese children with their homework, helping a Women’s group in Dandenong, becoming a Lifestyle Assistant at an aged care facility, working as a Paralegal, assisting with the Royal Commission into Aged Care, working in Medical Negligence at Maurice Blackburn Lawyers and much more.

In 2011, I became a student volunteer at the Brotherhood of Saint Laurence. Every Tuesday after school, I would assist young Sudanese refugee children with their homework. I also attended a Women’s Group in Dandenong which focused on assisting Sudanese women with their integration into Australian society. I volunteered for 5 years until I finished high school.

From the very beginning, Madeleine’s career mostly revolved around helping others. She understood that this is what she wanted to continue doing, and therefore it became clear to her that she would not be pursuing the traditional corporate and commercial law pathways.

Throughout my career, each job I’ve had was focused on helping people. Within my first year of law school, it became clear to me that I wasn’t going to go into commercial or corporate law because I just knew that I wouldn’t have that person approach [namely], I wouldn’t be working with victims or vulnerable people.

I then began working in an Aged Care as a Lifestyle Assistant from 2016 to 2018, which involved feeding and entertaining residents in a Dementia Facility.

I really enjoyed this role because it fulfilled my desire to assist vulnerable people. Given the nature of the work, I found it overwhelming as I was exposed to a lot of things that I should not have been exposed to as a 19-year-old.

Career Journey and Volunteer Experiences

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Despite this, it gave me an appreciation of the elderly people in our society. When the Royal Commission into Aged Care began, I worked as a paralegal in the head office for the same company I had been employed in as a Lifestyle Assistant. This work involved legal research, looking at the Aged Care Act, reviewing complaints that came through and reviewing contracts. This gave me insight into the daily duties and functions of in-house lawyers. I left the Aged Care sector when I found that it had become too overwhelming.

Followed by that, I completed a 6-month exchange program in Amsterdam with Deakin Abroad.

I volunteered for a program run

by DLA Piper which provided the opportunity to assist asylum seekers and refugees with migration law issues.

At the end of 2020, my first proper legal role was as a legal assistant at Maurice Blackburn. I worked in the area of medical negligence for almost two years. I thoroughly enjoyed the work and the role provided me with a wealth of legal experience which I use in my current role.

Despite enjoying civil litigation, I wanted to explore the criminal law path as I felt that it was the right path for me.

In my first year of law school, I began working as a receptionist at a local law firm on the Mornington Peninsula.

I completed a lot of administrative work such as answering phones and organising conferences, as well as some legal research.

At the start of 2022, I secured a position as a Legal Support Officer at Victoria Police. I was really happy when I obtained this role as I finally felt like I had my foot in the door. Since then, I have progressed to becoming a Police Lawyer.

Victoria Police is a great organisation to work for as they encourage you to progress in your career.

In 2019, I undertook a volunteer position in the Emergency Department at Peninsula Health. I started volunteering at Peninsula Health as I wanted to explore what working in the medical profession may be like.

At that point, I still wasn’t sure whether law was the right career for me.

Despite my career progression, I’ve rarely felt confident or capable when obtaining and starting new roles. This just shows how engrained that feeling of inadequacy and imposter syndrome is in lawyers.

Around the same time in 2019, I went to Victoria Legal Aid and volunteered as a Criminal Law Clerk.

This was my first introduction to Criminal Law and when I began to realise that this was an area of law I was very interested in. As a clerk, I was responsible for speaking with potential clients to see if they were eligible for Legal Aid funding as well as assisting duty lawyers.

What made you want to work for Victoria Police?

I knew criminal law was the path I wanted to take but I found it difficult to get my foot in the door.

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I remember reaching out to multiple criminal lawyers on LinkedIn asking them to have coffee with me to discuss their pathway into criminal law. I applied for the Office of Public Prosecutions (OPP) clerkship and was unsuccessful which left me feeling like I was at a dead end. In addition to this, I had some lawyers try to dissuade me from pursuing criminal law, but I held my ground and kept believing that I could get to where I wanted to be.

Through this, I was able to foster and develop working relationships with some very accomplished individuals who continue to mentor me to this day.

I also developed a thorough understanding of how Victoria Police works as an organisation.

What does the Advocacy Team do?

Senior

I obtained the Police Lawyer role in the Senior Advocacy Team in January this year. The Senior Advocacy Team is part of Victoria Police’s Specialist Prosecutions Branch, and it is responsible for prosecuting high profile and complex matters.

This includes matters that are often reported in the media.

As discussed earlier, in early 2022, I obtained the role of Legal Support Officer in the Specialist Children’s Court Prosecution Unit at Victoria Police.

Role as Legal Support Officer in the Specialist Children’s Court Prosecution Unit vs Executive Assistance to Prosecutions Headquarters

Victoria Police offers many opportunities for Police Lawyers.

There are several teams that hire Police Lawyers including the Civil Litigation Unit, Family Violence Unit and Counter-Terrorism Unit.

I started working at Victoria Police as a Legal Support Officer in the Specialist Children’s Court in January last year. The Specialist Children’s Court Prosecutions Unit is responsible for prosecuting youth offenders between the ages of 14 and 18 except for offences such as murder or aggravated burglary, which are dealt with by the Office of Public Prosecutions. I worked at the Specialist Children’s Court for about 4 months before becoming Executive Assistant to the Superintendent of Prosecutions Court Branch.

What advice would you give to a young lawyer?

Relax and let things happen. Try and get some experience and do not worry if you don’t know everything. The chance is you never will.

Even senior advocates who have worked as lawyers for over 40 years still come across issues that they can’t resolve.

Prior to getting the Senior Advocacy role, I applied for a few Police Lawyer positions, I didn’t get them, and was really disappointed in myself. I felt like I was hopeless and that I wasn’t going to achieve my dream of being a Police Lawyer.

Then, I got the Senior Advocacy role, and it was the perfect fit, so I think it’s about letting things happen.

he Executive Assistant role was a lot of administrative work and taking minutes at meetings.

Despite being in a heavily admin-based role, I was able to liaise and work with senior lawyers and police officers such as the Superintendent and Senior Sergeants.

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Don’t stress that you don’t know anything or that you’re not going to be good at something; your first few roles will teach you. What’s more important is that you’ve got the right ethics, morals, and passion; they cannot be taught.

This message is important for students who don’t want to go down the traditional pathway of Commercial or Corporate law Just stand your ground and know that someday you will get to where you need to be. Follow your passion and stick to your gut. Law school is tough, PLT is tough and getting your first job as a graduate lawyer is tough.

You will feel out of place and feel like someone else deserves to be in your place more than you do. But that is not the case.

You just need to find your footing and have faith in yourself and your capabilities.

You were hired for a reason.

Finally, I want to add that I am more than happy for students to reach out and have a chat with me. I really valued people doing that for me when I was in law school and struggling to find my footing in the legal world.

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CORPORATE, COMMERCIAL AND TAXATION LAW David Coombes in conversation with Jordan Cook David Coombes has a wide range of expertise and many years of experience.

Now predominantly focusing on advising clients on a range of corporate, commercial and taxation law matters, he is incredibly unique in his approach to becoming a lawyer, starting his own practice and his journey throughout his career. We are fortunate to have him discuss his career with us.

In fact, my career has taken me through a series of mergers of legal practices. It was firstly with a city firm, that was with three other partners so I became a member of a four partner firm.

We then merged with a five partner firm, and a nine partner firm. Picking up a few more partners along the way, we built the practice up with those further partners joining the firm and adding areas of work and specialties.

I started my practice after I was a couple years out of law school. This goes back to the 1970s, I was admitted to practice, I got married, started a family, and started a business two years later in South Melbourne. I was ready to do anything, my day might have involved an assault case in the morning at the local Magistrate’s Court, with a complicated commercial transaction in the afternoon along the lines of a property development or a company structure. I decided with the work I was doing, the thing that interested me most was taxation and trust structures, and business structures generally.

So I decided that I was not able to do anything and everything.

Effectively, I realised I had to specialise and so I merged my firm with a city firm who were happy to take me on and I could operate in an area where they needed a partner and a lawyer in the field of taxation, trusts and superannuation.

David grew his business to become part of an international law firm, reaching impressive heights. Eventually, though, he decided to move firms and work with private tax clients.

He discusses his experience of developing such a wide range of expertise.

I was getting a lot of work from accountants and realised I had to get out there in the public arena. I delivered a series of papers on different topics in the taxation area, starting with mainly trusts. This led me to a lot of referral work and because I was out there presenting those articles and papers, I had to bring myself up to date and write on topical issues, so that meant a fairly steep learning curve.

It just meant that I had to get my head in the books, get myself up to date with tax developments and produce something that was lively and informative and had appeal to people with problems that I was assisting clients with.

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It was very much a matter of researching a lot of aspects, writing about them, and then I was getting presented with a lot more problems from new clients. Or sometimes it worked the other way around, I would be presented with a client problem which was of particular interest, and that led me to research it, fight the tax office on it, and I was able to talk about those developments and discuss particular issues that arose.

It’s a matter of getting on top of not just capital gains tax, but a matter of all ramifications of income tax, goods and services tax, stamp duties, and various other taxes.

With such an impressive career behind him, and an admirable view on staying informed, David has many young lawyers looking for his guidance.

Often finding himself mentoring other lawyers, he has developed his people management skills and speaks to that ability.

From there, I then did a postgraduate degree in taxation. I did a masters of tax and that helped me with the specialisation. It means that you never stop learning and you’ve got to keep on top of all developments in order to maintain registration as a lawyer, so it’s part of what’s called ‘continuing professional development’. It’s never ending, and a little bit difficult to keep up with, but it can be done. You just need to devote a bit of time throughout the course of the week to keeping yourself informed.

It’s very difficult.

You’re dealing with human beings, some of them are very fragile, some of them have huge egos, it’s just a matter of managing them and taking into account all of those circumstances.

Everybody’s different and it’s a particularly hard task. I find I enjoy it, and I think I can relate well to people and what you see is what you get with me so that’s fine.

Lastly, he leaves us with an anecdote from his first time in court, reminding us that even accomplished lawyers began somewhere.

David also reveals his love for taxation, and explains the reason he still chooses to practise it after so long.

In the very first case I handled as an article clerk and before I was admitted to practice as a lawyer, some very devious senior partners sent me up to the Supreme Court. All I had to do was stand up and mention a matter and it had to be adjourned.

The judge’s associate called the matters on, I stood up and I said to the judge, may it please your honour, I appear for such and such and the case is to be adjourned with your consent.

He said to me 'I can’t hear you', and I thought that’s strange, so I’ll speak a bit louder.

I repeated myself in a louder voice and he said to me, 'what’s your name?'

Taxation is a matter that always hits the hip-pocket of clients and is not always assessed properly. There are a lot of ongoing issues that arise with an income or capital realisation, whether people are entitled to a particular deduction or there’s been a correct characterisation of their activity. It’s a constant, ongoing battle, so it’s really the nature of the problem that interests me more than anything else.

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I gave him my name and he said, 'Well, Mr Coombes, I want you to understand that I can’t hear you at the moment.' There was a kindly, old Queen’s Counsel at the bar table who leant over to me and said 'Sit down, it’s not your turn.' That’s why the judge couldn’t hear me - In the practice court, there’s an order of seniority. When I finally did get up to make my say, the judge made it very difficult for me and he joked about it, but he said he admired my perseverance.

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DAMAGES INCURRRED

Fourth Year Law Student Misinterprets the term ‘Moot’

A third-year law student, Chloe Evans, was heard by our DLSS correspondents today discussing her upcoming moot for Evidence Law.

Student Contribution: Chrissa Karouzakis

Our correspondents heard the phrases “mutual followers” and “social media” and decided to speak to Chloe in the library about her upcoming moot.

“I love moots so much. I’ve got over 1,000 followers on Tiktok. I know I’m easily going to get an HD on this Evidence Law assignment!”

Our correspondents were left confused as to the relevance of Tiktok followers to mooting, but Chloe was more than happy to provide clarification on this topic.

“I was surprised when my friends told me that Evidence Law involved a moot. I was uncertain of how ‘moots’ relate to the topic of Law, but it all makes sense to me now.”

“Law is all about networking.

There’s no better way to network than to have an entire assignment dedicated to meeting and following new people on social media.”

“My friends and I have heaps of moots on Instagram, Facebook and Tiktok. I can’t wait for this assignment.”

Chloe was shocked and much less excited about her upcoming ‘mooting’ assignment when our correspondents informed her that a ‘moot’ in Law School has nothing to do with ‘mutual followers’ and ‘social media’ and is instead about advocacy and problem solving in relation to a legal scenario.

She declined further comment...

Damages Incurred is the DLSS's Satire Blog. Weekly editions are released on the DLSS website.

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WORKING AS AN EMPLOYMENT LAWYER Alexandra Gonos in conversation with Chrissa Karouzakis.

Alexandra Gonos works at Deakin University in Employment and Workplace Relations Law.

I started working at an Employment Law Trial Firm in Boston and came to the realisation that this was the area I was passionate about. I came back to Melbourne and have specialised in Employment Law ever since. I like this area of the law as it is very diverse with a range of issues to work on, including discrimination, bullying, sexual harassment, adverse action and unfair dismissals.

Why did you choose to study law?

Originally, at University, I was set on Family Law and being a Family Lawyer. While studying, I worked as a Paralegal at Community Legal Centres and at a boutique law firm specialising in family law.

Family law came with its sets of challenges, including the emotional toll it can have on practitioners.

It’s a very dynamic area of the law, yet still complex, and very exciting!

What is your favourite thing about the legal field?

In my penultimate year, I did a clerkship and rotated through broad areas of property, commercial, and litigation law, doing roughly three months in each area.

After having experienced commercial litigation, I decided I wanted to be a litigator. I didn’t know which area I wanted to practice but I was placed in commercial litigation to get a broad range of experience.

I love the challenges that this profession can bring. I love being able to problem solve and understand a unique set of facts.

I also enjoy understanding each parties’ interests, and developing strategies to get the best outcome for the client.

As a whole, the legal field is made up of very passionate professionals who really want to make a difference. People get to use their skills to advocate and get fair and just outcomes.

In my Graduate year and in my first year as a practising lawyer. I was engaged in very broad aspects of commercial litigation, including defamation law, insurance, and employment law.

What I didn’t realise at University is that there are so many lawyers in policy who are making a real difference in the law, reflecting society’s values and advocating for change where it matters.

In 2019, I moved to the United States of America with my husband to support him for his job.

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What did your journey into law look like?

It’s great to get experience in different areas of the law so you can find out what you like and don’t like. It’s okay not to know just yet.

I studied a double degree at Monash University in Law and Performing Arts.

I did two clerkships in my penultimate year; one at Hunt and Hunt Lawyers, and the other at Marshalls and Dent where I did Media and Entertainment Law.

It’s also good to put yourself out there and get involved.

Volunteer at Community Legal Centres and law firms. Ask barristers if you can shadow them until you finally get a “yes” response, gain paralegal work, join your law society.

After my graduate year at Hunt and Hunt, I moved to the USA and after coming back, I specialised in Employment Law’.

I like working at Deakin University as opposed to private practice as it suits my professional and lifestyle values better.

It’s still challenging, but also has great work-life balance. In addition, you only have one client which means you can have a deep understanding of the one organisation.

Get as much down on your CV as possible.

I was heavily involved in the Young Lawyers Law Institute of Victoria and was able to become involved in law reform which I haven’t been able to do at Deakin, which is great. All of this experience helps you become a wellrounded individual which makes you very attractive to future employers. It also gives you great insight into what you love and what you're passionate about.

What is the most rewarding part of being a lawyer?

The most rewarding part of being a lawyer is being able to make a difference and get the best outcome for all parties.

Whilst I act for employers in my career (not employees), I always try to get the best outcome for everyone. It's always important to remember that we spend a lot of our time at work, therefore, we want staff members to feel physically and mentally safe, feel respected and protected when they come to work.

Do you have any future lawyers?

advice

‘

for

It’s okay to not know what you want to do. You’re not supposed to know. Take it slow, and be open to learning and making a difference.

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UNDERSTANDING COMMERCIAL LAW Stuart Lewin in conversation with Jordan Cook

Stuart Lewin is arguably one of Melbourne’s leading insolvency lawyers. Having over 20 years of experience in dispute resolution and insolvency, he has acted for a variety of institutions and companies, and developed a highly regarded reputation.

You also probably need to be a bit more lateral about how you think when problem solving, particularly in the context of how to find that pressure point in a dispute that might unlock an outcome. I think it was that exposure to the litigation and the interaction with clients that piqued my interest in commercial disputes, restructuring and insolvency work.

Starting his law journey in workplace injury, he details how he began and the transition to commercial law.

Noted for his commerciality and his ability to resolve matters in a timely manner, Stuart has had to develop a unique set of skills throughout his practice.

My first two years of practice were spent in the workplace injury section of our firm … that was great legal work to cut your teeth on and really helpful as it was the area where there were lots of matters and you would often be in court and be required to do appearance work as a young lawyer.

The area which I practise predominantly is an area of law which requires expedited outcomes often.

If you're familiar with the voluntary administration process, it has reasonably strict statutory time frames. So I believe the ability to get to the core of the issue which might be driving the dispute or driving the different positions is something that I’ve acquired and developed over the years as part of the response to what the client needs.

I liked that work, but it was kind of narrow in the sense that you came across the same issue regularly and there were only a couple of acts which governed the area. So whilst I really liked the area, it was confined from a legal perspective and you needed to know a lot about a really narrow and bespoke area of law. I eventually had an opportunity to move into commercial disputes and found the work to be a lot more varied and the issues a lot broader.

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Administrators and receivers need to be able to come up with outcomes quickly and cut through those issues and make decisions, particularly if they’re trading a business and an environment where they’re personally liable for debts they incur. So it most likely stems from doing a lot of that and knowing that there are clients where having that string to your bow really appeals to them.

The other thing that catches our eye with applications is people that have done unique experiences so it might be volunteering that might bear some relationship to the law, that always stands out.

We see some terrific candidates who have done a lot of volunteering at legal services and have done work for international courts of justice. That kind of experience is priceless and if you ever get the opportunity to do those sorts of things whilst you’re studying, you should really take it.

One thing I’ve learned over the years is to make sure you hire people that are more talented than you and empower them to take ownership of the issues that you’re asking them to assist with. I think that’s the strength, you’ve got to resource things appropriately, delegate and trust.

Do you have any advice for students looking to enter your area of law?

‘

Soak up as much experience as you can get, that’s first and foremost. Whether it be with law firms or accounting firms because those candidates who show an ability to not just understand the law and recite what they might have learnt at university but can apply that learning to situations that are going to confront them in their professional life really do stand out and are a point of difference.

Students who have a good understanding of financial matters, they can sometimes have a head start with the kind of work that we do, as well because there are a lot of accounting aspects to it, looking at balance sheets and financial statements and reading creditor’s reports, the accounting of the business is a big feature in a corporate insolvency.

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WORKING AS AN AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT SOLICITOR Katrina Davis Katrina Davis works as an Australian Government Solicitor, in the area of civil litigation. She mainly works with torts and contract law.

I used and continue to use all of these skills in both my life and career.

My other favourite thing about studying law was the opportunities it presented to me. My law degree led me to competing in mooting competitions around the country and eventually in England at the University of Oxford Intellectual Property Moot. I also received multiple travel grants that enabled me to see the world and attend conferences to meet other like-minded and driven people.

These experiences opened further opportunities for me on the job market to progress my career.

Why did you choose to study law?

I chose to study law as I found that whilst completing my business degree I was not fully applying myself and was looking for more of a challenge. I enjoy learning and complex tasks. I enrolled in a law degree and definitely got what I asked for.

Whilst at law school I realised early on that I thoroughly enjoyed contracts, torts and commercial law. I also really enjoyed mooting. Taking these into consideration, it appeared the obvious choice when deciding my career would be to pick the areas of law I was most eager to learn about. That resulted in me initially entering private practice as a commercial litigation lawyer.

What is your favourite about the legal field?

What did your law look like?

journey

into

I started off as a briefing clerk at the Coroners’ Court of Victoria. My job was to assist in investigating and drafting Coronial Findings into reportable deaths.

It was great! My sole purpose was to assist others and safeguard the community. I was, and still am, proud of the work that I did there.

When I see the community recommendations that I helped make being implemented, it brings me joy.

thing

My favourite thing was the complexity and breadth of information. As I said, I enjoy learning new things, no matter how obscure.

I found that whilst studying law there were so many opportunities now open to me and various career paths. Studying law provided me with new skills regarding critical analysis, persuasiveness, time management and interpersonal communication.

Once I graduated, I wanted to give private practice a crack so I left and joined a firm. I stayed there for a few years.

Whilst I liked the work, I did not enjoy the culture.

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Once I felt like I had spent enough time there for me to learn if it was the right or wrong fit for me, I moved on to join AGS. At AGS I have found it combines all the things I enjoy about being a lawyer whilst offering complex and varied work.

It helped that we all liked and respected each other.

Start prepping for your career now: Everyone has the exact same qualification as you, so you need to think of what you can now do to convince an employer to hire you over another person. Do internships now, compete in moots, join the law society and write articles. Essentially do things that will add to your resume and differentiate you from your peers. Good grades are a given and will only get you so far.

How does a typical day as a lawyer play out?

My days vary depending on the matters I am working on and how large they are. It usually follows a cycle of reviewing, considering and drafting. The drafting component might be drafting advice, correspondence or court documents. On larger matters, I might spend days, weeks or even months on one large task such as discovery, or litigation management where I could be doing anything from reviewing documents to managing people’s workloads and answering their questions, all whilst ensuring court deadlines and targets are met.

Do you have any future lawyers?

advice

Take time for yourself and don’t get caught up in the Lawyer Life’ hype: I have seen more people than I wish to admit exhibit signs of being burnt out. Whilst law school is stressful, difficult, and should be taken seriously, you need to also take care of yourself. You will see people idolising or joking about how busy they are or how tired they feel. Working or studying insane hours when you don’t have to isn’t cool. This is not an episode of Suits (if people still watch that). This is your life; and your mental health is not a joke or something to mess with.

Take care of yourself and unashamedly reach out to others when you need help.

for

I have three nuggets of wisdom Make friends in law school: They will be your rock through assignments, exams and life in general. They will get you.

They will understand in the way your other friends won’t how busy you can be sometimes. They will be able to help you with notes, assignments (in a nonplagiarising way) and the general stresses of law school.

Keep in mind, the people you go to law school with will be your co-workers in the future.

Be nice. I ended up at the same firm as multiple people I knew from law school.

‘

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WORKING AS A CRIMINAL BARRISTER Jim Bisas, in conversation with Chrissa Karouzakis.

Criminal law is as nuanced an area of law as any. Like all practice areas, it requires specialists.

Barristers can provide this specialist service, and ensure that those charged in criminal matters have representation who understand the unique challenges and circumstances of their case.

and a finding that you are a fit and proper person to practice the law.

This admission to practice alone does not make you a barrister. As barristers are there to be specialist advocates and advisors, their level of qualification must reflect this.

To become a barrister in Victoria, you must then also pass the Victorian Bar’s entrance exam, which will qualify you for a place in the Reader’s Course.

Jim Bisas is one such barrister.

He specialises in indictable and summary crime, and family violence. He has worked as a Criminal Law Barrister for 12 years, as well as spending 15 years as a Principal Legal Officer with the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions.

Jim has also worked as a Judge’s Associate, and in criminal law firms in Melbourne.

The Reader’s Course is an 8-9 week course which is designed to prepare you for life at the Bar. The Victorian Bar Association describes how, during the Reader’s Course, ‘Readers are exposed to the anatomy of court and trial practice, including out-ofcourt preparation, interlocutory appearances, opening and closing addresses, the examination and crossexamination of witnesses, legal argument and submissions.

Emphasis is placed upon the importance of forensic and strategic thinking, developing coherent case theories, anticipating and resolving evidentiary issues, and effective and persuasive communication both orally and in writing.’

Moreover, ‘The Readers’ Course provides a unique opportunity to develop the skills to come to the Bar, make mistakes in a supportive environment, receive constructive feedback, and make lifelong friendships.

Jim provided us with unique insight into how his career in law began.

I was always interested in legal practice and the law. I was a good public speaker and proficient in English.

My journey into law was preceded by a high level of achievement at HSC level and entry into Melbourne University Law School.

Admission to a law school is, however, just the first step in becoming a barrister.

Upon completion of your law degree, you must be admitted to practice, a process which involves both completion of practical legal training,

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Upon your successful completion of the Reader’s Course, you must then work at the Victorian Bar under an approved mentor for 9 months.

It is then that you are eligible to become a part of the Victorian Bar, and begin your career as a barrister.

There are many paths your law journey can take you down.

Work as a Criminal Law Barrister can, as Jim has advised, be an incredibly fulfilling one.

The responsibility of being a legal specialist like a Barrister is reflected by the involved process of being admitted.

Upon first learning of this process, it can seem like an arduous task. It is important to remember that the practice of law is a journey, and ‘barrister’ is never the first step. Do not be discouraged by the work, there are many great aspects of being a barrister. We asked Jim what the best part of his job is.

‘

The best part of my job is when I achieve a successful outcome for a client in court and the gratitude that flows from that outcome.

The practice of law is rewarding, no matter which area you end up in. All law students, aspiring barristers or not, can benefit from the expertise of these legal specialists. Jim gave us some great advice for all prospective legal professionals.

I would advise law graduates to gain a broad experience base in many different areas of the law.

It is helpful to have some practical experience with clients and to have conducted client interviews and taken instructions on a legal matter.

It is also good to explore all employment options including in house solicitor positions, Government agencies and larger law firms.

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DL

E L FAILUR T T I L S S E

S

Law students are pretty well accustomed to failure

Accidentally calling my professor 'mum' or 'dad' out of habit

Have a laugh or two at our expense...

Watching too many American legal shows such as Suits and referring to a 'solicitor' as an 'attorney' in my assignment

Asking the elderly couple at my work for ID to prove they were over the age of 18

Buying concert tickets in row GA thinking they were 'General Admission'

Driving two hours to come to uni for a lecture which only lasted seventeen minutes

Spending $400 dollars on Law textbooks for all of my classes in Trimester 1 to finish all of my unit exams without opening the the Seminar leader discusses textbooks once. definition of "dispossess."

Staying awake all night to finish an assignment to realise the assignment due date has been postponed a week.

Meanwhile, a colleague says, "I googled it and it says otherwise.."

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