MAIN INTERVIEW

Wiktor Doktór, Pro Progressio: Zyta, this will be an unusual interview. We got to know a few years ago, so let me address you with your first name. I will begin with things that are obvious to you and then we will dive into the subject of EB. Well, EB, that is Employer Branding – what is it – can you give me your definition?

Zyta Machnicka, CEO of Lightness, blogger at CandidateExperience.pl and author of the book “Better Employer”: Over the past two decades it has been said that EB is simply building the image of the employer of choice, which is the one you want to work with first. However, the problem is that for many employers, this “Employer Branding” meant (and unfortunately for some of them it still means) putting lipstick on a pig – in official recruitment and image materials the company was spotless, employees gave each other a high five with a smile on their face and played table football, and the bosses knew all about good bossing. However, after getting inside and starting work, it turned out that they have a skeleton almost in every cupboard (which you could usually hear about during smoke breaks or having a beer or you could read about it on GoWork). And this gap between internal and external communication brought with it solid frustration and further problems. That’s why when I talk about EB, today I add to it the adjective “authentic”. And for me, authentic Employer Branding is simply communicating the truth about the company as an employer in an attractive way and calling forth the involvement of its key target groups (candidates and employees), in the channels and through the tools in which these groups are currently present and active. Since we already know how you define Employer Branding, please tell me how you did you get to this industry, if we can call EB an industry, and what do you do as part of EB?

I often say that Employer Branding is a typical example of recombinant innovation for me, which we base on combining knowledge from different areas. Because it combines HR with marketing, advertising, PR, new technologies and even sales. And my 15-year professional career is also sort of gathering the experience and knowledge from various fields, which at some point turned into EB. From an early age I was interested in marketing and advertising – its language and psychological mechanisms. And the first serious job that I started at the beginning of my studies was in the advertising agency. Then quite by accident I came to the Krakow employment agencies, where I not only went through the path from a temporary work consultant and a recruiter to the head of the branch. Thanks to this, I could not only scratch beneath the surface, but also experience to my cost the relationships with candidates, employees and employers from very different industries. I was constantly surprised that these groups are unable to communicate effectively with each other – candidates still have problems with choosing the right employer for themselves and “selling” their potential, a number of recruiters do not know how to effectively communicate with candidates and choose the one who suits them best, and the bosses have a constant problem with getting people they employ more involved. And repeatedly I arrived at the conclusion that all too often we complicate simple matters and in the rush for the future we do not notice what is really important now. I told myself then that if I had the opportunity, I would start working for a slightly better labour market.

And because I was still drawn to marketing, there were internet projects for employers and HR agencies. And suddenly I discovered the slogan: Employer Branding and then candidate experi ence and employee experience. And it all began to fall into place. And then, one day I decided to quit my full-time job and start my own business. In the meantime, I got a proposal from the Faculty of Humanities of the AGH University of Science and Technology, where I completed the sociological studies majoring in “media and social communication”, to get involved in creating new post-graduate course. And since no one taught students Employer Branding at universities in Poland, the direction was clear. And so the new degree course was launched and then the blog CandidateExperience.pl was created and the #ebmasters commu nity was initiated. And everything began to fall into place. We had the opportunity to have you as a speaker at several conferences as part of the BSS Tour cycle in 2018 and 2019, and during last year’s BSS Forum in Łódź. Conference rooms filled to the brim and people strongly involved in the workshops. Does this mean that companies in Poland are hungry for knowledge about EB? Can you still surprise the participants of conferences and workshops with EB? Due to its interdisciplinary nature, Employer Branding is a topic that is developing and obtaining professional qualities very strongly. Both EB course at AGH and more than 6-year actions of #ebmasters community have contributed significantly to the fact that this notion has been introduced not only to further universities and HR portals, but above all, to new companies. But this is mainly due to low unemployment and employers’ difficulties For me, authentic Employer Branding is simply communicating the truth about the company as an employer in an attractive way and calling forth the involvement of its key target groups (candidates and employees), in the channels and through the tools in which these groups are currently present and active. FULL VERSION OF THIS INTERVIEW IS AVAILABLE ONLY IN PAPER EDITION OF OUTSOURCING&MORE MAGAZINEOR ON THE PRO PROGRESSIO WEBSITE.

You have mentioned the education. How do you conduct EB classes, are your students “ordinary’” students, or maybe people who already use Employer Branding professionally?

EB studies at AGH in Krakow are an endless adventure for me. This project has been going on for over 7 years and among more than 200 participants we had and still have both people who did not know much about Employer Branding before and those who were an old hand at it, but never refined the knowledge they acquired. Of course, such a diverse group is difficult to lead, because people not only have different experiences, but also are of very different ages. We also did not avoid mistakes, because we, as organisers and lecturers, also had to understand how EB should be taught so that this knowledge would have real and practical value. And today I can say with complete confidence that this diversity is a great strength of this course, because we have the fantastic staff and we try to keep the best level of the curriculum and not to make it too simple, bringing together very different perspectives of the labour market. As a result, our participants get a degree not only with truly interdisciplinary knowl edge, but are also much more aware of the expectations, needs and attitudes of groups of candidates and employees with whom they will communicate on the market and in their companies.

Zyta Machnicka has been signing her book Better Employer during its premiere. Photo: Andrzej Wysocki.

in reaching and retaining the best staff. The market today tells us directly that without good employees, whose values and mode of operation are consistent with the company’s culture, enterprises will not develop and compete effectively. Now we also have research results confirming that an employer’s brand not only affects the decisions of candidates and employees, but it also has an influence on the purchase of products and services. Because as customers, we want to work with companies that treat their staff well. And if we realize that EB is influenced not only by recruitment and HR departments, but absolutely everyone employed in the company, we will understand how important this topic should be for each organization. That is why I am convinced that we are still at the beginning of our educational path and we will be surprised more than once, also at industry conferences. There is great passion and commitment in the way you talk about Employer Branding. I felt the same way reading your book. Please tell me what made you write the book, what can we find in it and where can we buy it? I have long been thinking about creating a personal and practical guide to the world of EB, which will help organize knowledge, cooperation with all company departments and introduce real and positive changes in organizations. Because we didn’t have such publication on the market and not everyone has time today to track activity on blogs and industry portals. And not everyone is aware that it is the knowledge of Employer Branding that can help him run a better business. However, due to my considerable professional activity, I couldn’t find the right time to write the book. And suddenly, when at the end of 2018 two different publishers contacted me and offered cooperation, I decided that there would never be a good time for writing. And that it’s about time to turn the idea into concrete action. I decided to cooperate with the Onepress Publishing House and after nine, probably the most difficult months in my career, the book was written. And this is how the book entitled: “A better employer. How authentic Employer Branding changes business, the labour market and people” was created, which is a record

A “Better Employer” was created, which is a record of my experiences and observations about the labour market. These are also the results of analyses of over 200 educational projects in the area of candidate experience and employee experience that I have run in recent years.

42 of my experiences and observations about the labour market. These are also the results of analyses of over 200 educational projects in the area of candidate experience and employee experience that I have run in recent years. The book had its official premiere on 28 th January 2020, so you can find it not only via the official link lepszypracodawca.pl or directly on Onepress website, but also in other online and brick and mortar bookshops.

Finally, I have a question that comes from the list of wishes and advice. Can you give a little piece of advice to companies which do not know how to go about Employer Branding? What should companies focus on, and here I will ask a little perversely, what should we do to implement EB in a right and proper way?

First of all, don’t look on and on at the competition, just build on what you have. If you are taking your first steps with company Employer Branding, first compare your current company situation as an employer with the business goals and challenges you face every day. Talk to representatives of various departments – what are their goals, what are their biggest problems and what do they need most from you as an employer? Look at the real results: how does your company deal with the acquisition and recruitment of candidates, as well as the implementation, development and retention of specific groups of employees? What channels and tools do you use, which of them bring effects and which do not, and how much do you spend on it? And then, together, answer the question honestly, are you able to achieve what you have in your business strategy by using your existing methods?

In my experience, employers could solve a number of problems very quickly if they listened carefully to the voice of their team and drew the appropriate conclusions from it. And it would be good if the EB subject was not assigned only to one person or department, but much debated in the entire company. The sooner we invite other depart ments to work on Employer Branding, the greater the chance that they will want to get involved in the next stages. Because recruitment and Employer Branding is primarily a team game. The rest is usually just technicalities and tailoring the way we operate to the resources our organization has.