Phil Snyder GRACE interviews

GRACE: Tenth Presbyterian Church Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 10.08.2023 Phil Synder Interview

Emily Petrie: Hello?

Phil Synder: Hello?

Dani O'Malley: Hi, Phil.

Emily Petrie: Hi. Phil Synder: Hello.

Dani O'Malley: Can you hear us okay?

Phil Synder: Yes, I can hear you. You hear me?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Emily Petrie: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Okay.

Dani O'Malley: This is Dani O'Malley and I am a contract investigator with GRACE and Emily's on who you've been communicating with.

Emily Petrie: Hi, Phil. Thanks for joining.

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Phil Synder: Hey, thanks for calling. Thanks for agreeing to do this the old-fashioned way.

Emily Petrie: Yeah, no problem.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, it still works the same.

Emily Petrie: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: So... Go ahead, Em. Emily Petrie: Oh, I was just going to say thank you for all of the documents that you shared and the link to your blog.

It's all been really helpful information, so I appreciate that.

Phil Synder: I appreciate you looking at it.

Emily Petrie: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: I've spent the past couple days reading through all the documents that you've sent us, going through your blog, and I've read the Wartburg Watch article and the Anglican Watch articles. I've even watched not all of your body cam, but a good amount of it.

Phil Synder: You get the idea.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Yeah. So I think what the best thing to do, for us, because I know you have so much information, is for me just to go through the documents that you sent and ask questions specifically about it. I'm kind of going off your timeline that you sent. And I have to tell you, I love that you've sent all this information and that you have documentation to back things up because that is super helpful and I always love that.

So yeah, as with Emily, I do appreciate that. Before wePhil Synder: I've been working on it for the last 10 years.

Dani O'Malley:

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Yeah. Yeah, you have. But you'd be surprised. There's some people that provided me with some good information and I'm always like, "Do you have a outline?" Do you have any questions about that communication acknowledgement?

Phil Synder: No, I don't. That doesn't concern me. I'm not concerned about any of that sort of thing.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Do you have any concerns or any questions before we get started?

Phil Synder: About what?

Dani O'Malley: Any of this. I know you've kind of been through the ringer, looks like, to put it nicely, but is there anything that you want to tell us?

Phil Synder: I just have some questions for you, if that's what you mean.

Dani O'Malley: Sure, yeah. And if I can answer them, I can answer them.

Phil Synder: Okay. So this Bruce Garner, he was an Elder at Tenth Presbyterian Church. Is that correct?

Dani O'Malley: Yes. Phil Synder: Okay. Was he a school bus driver?

Dani O'Malley: Yes. Phil Synder: Okay, so that's the guy. So he was... Whatever, he had his phone and he was looking up little girls' skirts or whatever.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. The ages range from six years old to 14 years old that they identified.

Phil Synder:

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I guess, is he in custody? He was arrested?

Dani O'Malley: Yes. He's been arrested, convicted, and he's in prison.

Phil Synder: Oh, he is in prison, huh?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, not for very long, but he's there.

Phil Synder: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, one more thing for Tenth to... Another feather for their cap there. They got quite a few.

Dani O'Malley: Well, we originally were just going to look at Bruce, but then we did a survey, a lot of things started coming up, so we asked if we can look into these other things and that's why it's been taking a little bit longer just because we've been looking at everything.

Phil Synder: You start peeling the onion and then things start coming unraveled and it kind of snowballs sometimes, huh?

Dani O'Malley: Fact, fact. And not just in this instance, but in a lot of churches that we work with. Especially ones that have been established for a long time.

Phil Synder: Yeah, they've got 300 years of history here.

Dani O'Malley: Right. I'm not doing 200 years. We don't have time to do that. I don't know if we could do that.

Phil Synder: I'm sorry, it's more like 250, but anyway, a long time.

Dani O'Malley: Do you have any other questions?

Phil Synder: Well, I guess I might as well get these out of the way before we get going. Can I get a copy of the report when you're done?

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Dani O'Malley: I'm not sure who gets a copy of the report. I think it is listed as sexual abuse victims. I don't know if it includes any other type of abuse. I'll have to look back. I'm not there whenPhil Synder: Just for the record, I would like a copy. And how long do you think it'll take till the report comes out?

Dani O'Malley: I'm hoping it'll be sooner. We're already currently writing parts of it.

Phil Synder: Like a month, two or something?

Dani O'Malley: No, I can't guarantee. I want it to be done in two months.

Phil Synder: Okay. Less than a year?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Less than a year?

Dani O'Malley: Less than a year, definitely.

Phil Synder: Okay.

Dani O'Malley: You're going to at least get your copy of your transcript review for accuracy at least so you'll have some agency in that part of what you want us to have or not.

Phil Synder: Okay.

Dani O'Malley: So you'll definitely get that and you can do with that whatever you want. But the report, I'll have to double check, but thank you for asking. I'll write a note to myself.

Phil Synder:

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Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: See what individuals get a copy of the report. Do you know offhand, Em? Emily Petrie: I think you're right, but yeah, we'll double check. Sometimes it varies, so I think you're right.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right. Anything else?

Phil Synder: I think that's it for questions. I do have a couple of suggestions as for people that you could talk to further who have more information. First of all, Eric Bonetti from Anglican Watch. He has watched all of the body camera footage andDani O'Malley: I saw that.

Phil Synder: Reviewed all the court documents and has been following this for years. So he might be someone to consider talking to. And then also the other thing I was going to mention is Proclamation Presbyterian Church. There are a lot of people from Tenth that are going there. That's the natural place to go really.

And so there's the Elder, Ron DiGiacomo is there. The former head of the diaconate, Frank Voltini, who I dealt with a lot when I was there. And also Pat Canavan is there, I don't know if that rings a bell. That was the Elder that was fired for sexual harassment. He's there. Kristen Harnly's there. She was the director of special needs. So just for your information, there are a lot of people there from Tenth who are there and a lot of them were in positions of leadership. So just thought I'd mention that. And other than that, I think that's about all I... That's helpful. My mind feels more clear now. I don't have to... I got all my stuff out of the way, so I'm ready to go with whatever you want to discuss.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, no, I always ask that because I know we can get stuck on what we need to ask, so I might as well get it out of the way. And if someone's like, "No, I don't want to talk to you," we can conclude that in the beginning. Okay. So I'm now using your timeline. Can you hear me okay?

Phil Synder: I have my timeline right.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I'm looking at... I knew that Paul Jones was hired at Tenth in '97 and it was a part-time position, correct? That you know of.

Phil Synder:

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Yeah. He started part-time and if you look at that, whatever, that communication from Marion ClarkDani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: Right. It kind of talks about that. I don't think he was part-time for very long. Within a year or so, they made him full-time, I guess. Marion Clark talks about that in that the communication I sent you.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I see it. He doesn't say that in there, but I kind of understood that to be what it was.

Phil Synder: And again, the reason I mentioned that is because these judges that don't have their facts straight and don't know what they're talking about frequently. She stated that... And there's kind of this theme of, "Everything happened before, whatever. So we're not..." That's one of Liam Goligher's saying in the injunction hearing. "Oh, nothing bad ever happened on my watch. All this stuff was before I came."

Dani O'Malley: Great.

Phil Synder: And so there's kind of that theme and, "Oh, well, when the naked beatings occurred, Dr. Jones wasn't even an employee of Tenth Presbyterian Church. That was before."

Dani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: And yeah, so they kind of do that. That was a long time ago. I don't know if you've heard of Bible Baptist in Westchester. That's where I was going to before I went to Proclamation. They were in the Philadelphia Inquirer or whatever. Some teacher was molesting children. They had a bunch of other stuff going on. But anyway, when I left is when I saw their statement about it and they were like, "Oh, it happened a long time ago and it doesn't have anything to do with anybody who's here now." Which was not true becauseDani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: I mean, the perpetrator wasn't there, but they had people on staff, including the senior minister, who was there at the time but they just like to distance themselves, like, "Oh, that happened a long time ago." And I protest out there in Rittenhouse Square, and I had someone come up to me from the church and say, "Well, that happened a long time ago." They wanted me to stop doing what I was doing. And

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I'm like, "Well, it's still continuing on." The abuse is continuing on because I'm still banned from the public sidewalk from in front of the church. And it used to be within a mile. I mean, have you ever heard of a 5,000 foot ban? That's just nuts.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, it's a lot.

Phil Synder: And the judge, Paula Patrick, her son had free music lessons at the church for two years. She should have refusedDani O'Malley: Yeah, he said that.

Phil Synder: Yeah, obviously if there were any doubtsDani O'Malley: Didn't want to implicate herself.

Phil Synder: To be unbiased, when she did the 5,000 foot thing, that was just like, "Obviously she's biased. There can be no doubt."

Dani O'Malley: Which case was Judge Powell on? Was she on your case in 2017 or the church's case against you in 2019?

Phil Synder: The injunction hearing judge was Abbe Fletman.

Dani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: She is the one who said that I admitted to lying.

Dani O'Malley: I read that.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Which I didn't. And you notice, what she states was... The reason she says that is because I brought up events that occurred before they were in their present position. That's what she said.

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Dani O'Malley: That's not accurate.

Phil Synder: But hello, Liam Goligher's co-defendant, George McFarland has been an Elder for 35 years, which is way before anything I mentioned. The judge doesn't know what she's talking about. And if you read the transcript... No, I did not. That's not what I said... The question was, "Did you intentionally try to make them look bad?" And I said, "Yes. Yes. So then Jesus intentionally tried to make the Pharisees look bad, right?" I'm saying it's false. So for her to jump to the conclusion that because I'm trying to make them look bad, I'm saying something false, I don't know how she got... Well, she jumped because Liam Goligher lied to her and was misleading her. And so that's how she kind of, I guess, got to that.

Dani O'Malley: Gotcha. Yeah, I read all of that. I definitely did. And I see exactly what you're talking about.

Phil Synder: Okay. So anyway, back to your question. So 2017 was the injunction hearing. That was Judge Abbey footman. The defamation trial was Judge Marlene Lachman. That was a different judge. Oh, and by the way, I don't know if I mentioned that, I appealed Abbe Fletman's ruling, which I couldn't do because it was supposedly was in my favor, even though she said I lied. And I also filed a complaint with the judicial conduct board. So these judges that came after her were no doubt aware that I had filed a complaint against her and whatever. But anyway, so to answer question, Judge Marlene Lachman was the judge for my defamation trial against the church.

Dani O'Malley: And then Paula was the Tenth v. Snyder case?

Phil Synder: I'm sorry, say that again?

Dani O'Malley: Judge Paula Patrick was in the 2019 case that Tenth had against you?

Phil Synder: Yeah, she was the 2019 injunction judge, right. A timeline is just essential to keep all the... It is veryDani O'Malley: I know. That's what I'm trying to do.

Phil Synder: To keep myself straight. I can'tDani O'Malley:

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So going on to the next point, the senior minister at the time, Phil Ryken was aware of what occurred, but did not inform the session. Do you know what exactly he knew?

Phil Synder: He knew what happened at Philadelphia Biblical University, now Cairn University. He was aware of what occurred. He was aware that... This is my understanding. Obviously I wasn't there, whatever. This is whatever I've garnered. He knew that... And this is my thing is Cairn University fired him. And Paul should have been fired too. But instead of being fired, he was actually promoted from part-time to fulltime. And I believe there was a three man team that... With my experience with them, when they deal with me, they had a three men team to deal with somebody, a problem person like me. And so I believe there was a three man team there. I think it might've been Phil Ryken, David Skeel. I think he's a Penn State University professor. He's appeared on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour. So he is some kind ofDani O'Malley: Oh yeah. The University of Penn?

Phil Synder: Yeah, U Penn. So he's some kind of famous professor kind of dude, David Skeel. And I think the other person on the team might've been Tom Elliott. He was an Elder. He left Tenth when the whole Paul Jones thing happened because he was one of Paul Jones's friends. Last I heard, he sold his house in Barabbas for a million dollars and moved out to Lancaster.

Dani O'Malley: And you learned this just-?

Phil Synder: It was a three man team. Liam Goligher stated... They went back and looked at the session notes and there was no mention of Paul Jones in any of the notes from the session meetings. They don't even talk... No mention. So apparently they kept it super hush, hush and nobody really knew about it even within the session. The Elders in general didn't know about it. They really kept it really hush, hush. It's my understanding.

Dani O'Malley: Sure.

Phil Synder: That's my understanding. I don't know that for sure.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. They didn't present that to anybody that you know of, what Phil Ryken exactly knew?

Phil Synder: Yeah, I'm sure the current leadership, Liam Goligher have been happy to throw Phil Ryken under the bus and blame him for everything, which I think is correct. I don't disagree with it. And I had many, many, many meetings with Liam Goligher one-on-one in his office. So he is a source of some of my information

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and we all know he's a liar so I don't know how reliable it is, but he's remarkably honest sometimes about some things when he wants to be. That's part of what throws you off because he's super honest about some things and then he just comes up with these outrageous lies. Like the illegal alien thing. "Oh, that didn't happen when I was there." Dude, I personallyDani O'Malley: We have the emails.

Phil Synder: And why would you lie about that anyway? It doesn't... Anyway. Yeah. Anyway, so he oscillates between these crazy lies that have nothing to do with reality but then he is brutally honest sometimes. So he's really a interesting character.

Dani O'Malley: How did Boz know about the naked beatings?

Phil Synder: Who? Dani O'Malley: Boz Gilligan?

Phil Synder: Well, I communicated with him once, and he's the one who told me about Benjamin Harding.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Boz did?

Phil Synder: That's how I knew about Benjamin Harding, was through Boz. So obviously Boz must known what's going on there. He knew something.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Learned about Benjamin. Okay. Do you know when you contacted Boz? Phil Synder: Boz, when did I contact him?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. What year?

Phil Synder: I probably could... One reason I like being home here, I can probably answer that question.

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Dani O'Malley: Or you can write it down as a note to look it up.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to put his email into my Gmail here, and I only communicated a few times, so it should pop upDani O'Malley: I think Emily isPhil Synder: Looks like one '17, '18.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Would you send that to us just so I know what you said and we can talk to Boz? Phil Synder: I'm sorry, what's that again?

Dani O'Malley: Would you mind sending that communication?

Phil Synder: I'm on a speakerphone here. I think it's making it difficult for me to hear. Okay. Are you there?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Would you mind sending that communication to us?

Phil Synder: You want me to forward that to you?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: You want me to do it right now?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. We just don't want any... We can say, "Hey." Contacted Boz in the past. Boz has no connection.

Phil Synder: Let me see. Well, I don't think I'll do it right now, but I will-

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Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Do it later Phil Synder: Forward that to you later. I'll make a note here.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, that's good.

Phil Synder: But yeah, that's one reason I like being home so I can have access to all of this stuff versus... Yeah.

Anyway. Okay. Yeah, I think I hear you better. I had you on speakerphone and it was likeDani O'Malley: I'm in this room... I'm working at this office, and I'm in a kind of cavernous room that sounds very echoey. So that also will not help the situation. The next one is Pastor John Canales, he was at Tenth.

And then you have these lettersPhil Synder: These are the ones from you.

Dani O'Malley: No, I've never heard about this.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Yeah. So another one for you. Yeah. I didn't know anything about it either until this Gabriel Bucharescu sent me those letters I showed you, and againDani O'Malley: Who's Gabriel?

Phil Synder: I talked to Elder Tom Elliott to confirm that something serious happened.

Dani O'Malley: Who is Gabriel?

Phil Synder: Oh, Gabriel. Well, I mailed out many letters to the congregation because I printed out a church directory. And so I've been sending letters to the congregation, and that was one of the things they were trying to stop me with the 2017 injunctions with. They were trying to stop me from communicating with the congregation. Anyway, so I mailed a letter out and he was responding to the letter I sent out to the congregation. I didn't really personally address them in my letter, it was a general letter.

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Dani O'Malley: I just want to make sure.

Phil Synder: I don't remember the specifics of what the letter... I've got many letters I've mailed. But anyway, so he was responding to that. So that's what happened there.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. And Tom Elliott is currently an Elder, or is no longer an Elder?

Phil Synder: No, no, he's no longer an Elder. He was Paul Jones' good friend. He was part of the Westminster Brass.

He was a trombone player. And so he was big buddies with Paul Jones. And yeah, he's moved out to Lancaster. And by the way, if there's anybody you're looking for, if you need contact information, like Tom Elliott or Frank Voltini or anybody else, I would be happy to assist you with contact information.

Dani O'Malley: Sure. All right. I get the gist of the letter from Marion Clark to the church in this article...

Phil Synder: I'm sorry, what article?

Dani O'Malley: The article from Marion Clark, it says Tenth Press.

Phil Synder: Oh, the article fromDani O'Malley: Was that Tenth Church newsletter or bulletin?

Phil Synder: Well, the weekly update, that would be an email. I think that was an email. And yes, the other one was an excerpt from a bulletin from February 2nd, 2014.

Dani O'Malley: I assumed it was a bulletin, but... Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah, that's from the bulletin.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right. So we see that he's not saying that he was terminated.

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Phil Synder: No. Right, and then the email there, January 14th, 2014 specifically says, the second paragraph, he's stepping down to pursue new opportunities. And also Marion Clark is saying, "Yeah, we've been thinking of leaving for a while and it seems like a good time." Yeah, right? It has nothing to do with Paul Jones leaving. Seriously?

Dani O'Malley: And they were good friends?

Phil Synder: Oh, yeah, yeah. There was a huge battle going on. Some of the Elders, including I'm sure Marion Clark and Tom Elliott, wanted to get rid of Liam Goligher and keep Paul Jones. I don't know if you knew that.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Fred Hill was another one. He was in the choir with me. He's an Elder. He went to St. Andrew's in Florida or something. Yeah, he hated Liam. So yeah, there was a faction of Elders. There was a big battle between Paul Jones and Liam Goligher, and a lot of Elder or a faction of Elders wanted to get rid of Liam and keep Paul.

Dani O'Malley: Right. Okay. I'm going to jump on down to 2012 when you warned Marion Clark about if security didn't approve.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, yeah. Before I was a deacon, I didn't really see behind the curtain. But then once I became a deacon... Basically if you're a deacon, you're on the front lines of security. And with my background as a security guard and police academy graduate, I was like, "Whoa, we really need to step things up." And I'm usually ahead of the curve, it seems like, with this kind of stuff. When I was an armor car guard, I started up, there were only three of us wearing bulletproof vests, and they were kind of laughing at us.

And when I left, they were all wearing them, especially after the Vallejo Massacre where three armored car guards got executed. And yeah, that was back inDani O'Malley: You don't get paid enough to be an armored guard.

Phil Synder: That was featured on the TV series, Unsolved Mysteries. I don't know if you've ever seen that.

Dani O'Malley: Oh yeah, I remember that show.

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Phil Synder: Yeah. So anyway, that was on there. And another interesting tidbit about that one is that the guys who discovered the whole... So the Vallejo branch and then another shuttle started to pull in. They saw the door was halfway open and they saw a bag of money sitting there, and they backed out. And anyway, they had to go to a payphone to call the police. So people forget that cellphones and computers weren't always around.

Dani O'Malley: I know.

Phil Synder: When I was growing up, we didn't have cellphones and computers. They existed, but I don't think... I remember in high school typing my papers on my mom's typewriter from the '40s.

Dani O'Malley: Or the word processor, right? Just so you know, my background is law enforcement. I was a police officer down in Florida, and I was a detective, sex crime detective, night crimes detective, and just worked in a pretty high crime area for a while. So I spent eight years doing that, but it feels like dog years because it was so much constant work. So I understand your situational awareness and all that, especially with the climate of all the shootings at churches.

Phil Synder: As opposed to ecclesiastical people. When they're going through seminary there, they're not really...

Honestly, I wasn't aware either. So how I got into it was I was going to San Jose State, and I just had a psychology class on traumatic events or something, and I wanted to get out of class, do whatever. So I was like the first one out of class, I ran out of class, run downstairs, and I meet these guys and they were saying something to me, and I couldn't hear what they were saying because they were out of breath because they'd been running. So I was like, "I don't know what you're saying," and I started to walk off and then the guy decked me and I went down. And on the way down to the ground, I was like, "Oh, he said, 'Give us your wallet. We've got a gun.' That's what he said." I didn't have good situational awareness there. And so then that's when I went into the police academy. But anyway, these guys going to seminary, they're not training them in law enforcement or securityDani O'Malley: And it's equallyPhil Synder: Or abuse. They don't have the background that you and I have. Not that I have your background, but a little bit.

Dani O'Malley: Sure. Police academy is always a good time.

Phil Synder: Some idea about it.

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Dani O'Malley: Okay, so shortly after that, Frank Voltini sent out... He was the diaconate chair, sent out an email saying that things had been happening in the NorthPhil Synder: An idea of the state of security there, it was just chaos.

Dani O'Malley: Well, you know you're in the city and you have mentally ill people walking in and out.

Phil Synder: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Right. We're in a inner city area, so yeah, we've got homeless people coming in and who knows what's coming in and out, whatever. So yeah, he mentions sighting a gun. He misspelled it. I think he's dyslexic like my son. And that one was a guy with a cane. He had a cane, and the handle looked like a gun, shaped like a gun handle. And so somebody saw it and they were freaking out. And anyway, it wasn't actually a gun, it was just a cane.

Dani O'Malley: I know. When you think... Yeah, I've definitely been in positions like that. And I did read all the emails that you had sent to Pat and to the church, just updating them on concerns with safety or, "Atta boys," for doing a good job, and articles about bombings and shootings just to keep Pat aware that the people that are in charge of doing these kind of things, aware of what the climate was like. I did read all of those.

Phil Synder: Yeah, yeah. Was that the 80 pages of-?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Is that on my blog?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, that's on your blog.

Phil Synder: I have to confess, I don't really read my blog.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, that's where I saw them all. Let me just read the,.

Phil Synder: Okay. Yeah, because I got 80 pages of emails talking about security stuff.

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Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Next thing is Mary Beth, I don't know how to say her name, Gabeline?

Phil Synder: Mary Beth Gabeline, yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Gabeline, there we go.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: So I'm looking at the email that Marion sent to everybody, which just looks like Pat, you, Frank, and David Apple, about what happened. So it was so funny. When I'm reading the court documents, it's never the whole story that Marion is putting here.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: About being hugged.

Phil Synder: He glosses over it.

Dani O'Malley: Him touching her feet.

Phil Synder: I think he emailed the congregation about it at some point. I don't know if that's in here.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder:

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But, yeah, they always minimize it. It was no big deal. So you were a police officer or whatever. In the defamation trial, their thing was, what was a horrible slander and utterly false was that I said it was a sexual assault and actually it was a sexual harassment, which... I don't know. It just seems strange to me that sexual assault in Pennsylvania requires intercourse.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, yeah. In the state of Florida it's different. But it's [inaudible 00:35:20].

Phil Synder: Yeah. I was from California. I think that's different too there. But that just seems ridiculous. That seems like an archaic law that needs to be changed. You can do anything you want as long as there's no intercourse and it's just sexual harassment? To me, sexual harassment's like what Pat Canavan did, he told a dirty joke or something. I don't know.

Dani O'Malley: It's sexually motivated. Okay.

Phil Synder: Well, it was an assault. It made her afraid and uncomfortable. He repeated... He started caressing her ankles. And then he repeatedly hugged her to the point of pain.

Dani O'Malley: That's weird.

Phil Synder: It was scary. It was a scary thing. It was a physically scary thing. It wasn't like someone telling a dirty joke.

Dani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: But yeah, they always try to... Susan Elzey in the Wartburg Watch there and her comments were like, oh, some homeless guy touched her ankles, and that was it.

Dani O'Malley: I did read that. Yeah. Doesn't [inaudible 00:36:29].

Phil Synder: They just try to minimize it.

Dani O'Malley: I'm sorry. I talked over you. That comment was on the Wartburg Watch article?

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Phil Synder: Yeah, Susan Elzey there. She was the spokesperson for the church, giving her point of view. She was attacking me online. Going to church she was barely on my radar. I barely knew her. I had no idea that she harbored this animosity against me ever since she thought I said her husband inappropriately touched a mentally ill woman. But what I said was it was inappropriate for them to touch her period.

Should not touch her at all. Not that he inappropriately touched her. So anyway, that was a confusion there. But anyway, that appears to be where her animosity towards me started. She's been repeatedly falsely testifying against me in court. She's Liam Goligher's whatever main female liar that he pulls into court. So whatever.

Dani O'Malley: I think your security recommendations, see that. Okay. Let's see. I'm going to leave Patrick Otto for a second.

Phil Synder: If I could just back up to the recommendations for a minute.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: I just want to say that they thought I was nuts making all the recommendations at the time. They just thought I was whatever, paranoid and just really gung-ho and just overreacting and whatever to make these suggestions. Like, oh, we need security cameras, we need a police presence, all this. I was seeing a spike in mass shootings and I was super concerned about and I kept emailing him about it over and over again. That was one of Frank Pulcini's frustrations with him is, yeah, I think he wanted a police officer there, too. Just over and over again, he was harping on these guys. He said, "I feel like a broken record.

But they just don't listen." They're just like, "Well, we don't want to make people feel uncomfortable at church." Whatever.

Again, I tend to be ahead of the curve on these things. Now everybody sees what I'm saying. We just have this Tree of Life incident and whatever. Who's that guy in Carolina who shot a bunch of Black people? Anyway. They thought I was crazy with all these recommendations at the time. It's so ironic that now they're saying I'm the mass shooter when I was... The reason I was carrying a gun at church was because they refused my request for a police officer, so I felt it my duty with my background to try to protect the congregation since they weren't doing it. It's just very ironic. But anyway. Okay. Back to Patrick Otto. Yes, Patrick Otto.

Dani O'Malley: I'm going to skip him and hold him for a little bit because I want to get around to some of this other stuff first and we'll come back to him. When you were concealed in your carrying, where did you have your gun?

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, yeah, I had it on my belt. I had it on my belt. I had a holster and I had it covered up with a coat.

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Dani O'Malley: Oh, it was on your hip?

Phil Synder: Yeah, on my hip. Just pretty normal stuff. One time when I told Liam Goligher to keep my wife out of it and he wouldn't do it. One evening service ended and I went up to his wife afterwards to tell her to tell her husband to stay away from my wife because... Okay, you want to bring the wife into it? Let's get your wife into it, like that. So anyway, what happened was, at the end of the service I put my bullets away in the side pocket of my jacket like I'd been doing for years. And then everybody... Whatever. They thought I was reaching for a gun or something.

Well, I don't do shoulder holsters. I'm a hip guy. Again, I've been doing that for years. When the service ends, I pulled up my bullets and I put it in the side pocket of my coat. But here they're saying they thought I was reaching for a gun for some reason. Yeah. I don't know if you saw that email where Liam Goligher said, "There was an armed police officer who was ready to act." Right?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: And that was directed at me. Okay. This wasn't just any service. This was an elder installation service. I was objecting to Russ Pfeifer renewing his eldership because he was the one who investigated, in quotes, the rape false imprisonment and stated that, "If the woman was in bed with the guy she deserved whatever happened to her." So that was the reason I was objecting to that. But anyway, yeah.

Dani O'Malley: I'm going to get to that. I'm going to get to that part.

Phil Synder: Okay. Okay. I'm skipping timeframes. Okay. Sorry.

Dani O'Malley: I know. I know. I got you. We're going to get to it, I promise. Let's see. My notes are not over here, but let's talk about [inaudible 00:42:42]. Is that how you spell her name or say her name?

Phil Synder: [inaudible 00:42:45].

Dani O'Malley: [inaudible 00:42:46]?

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley:

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Okay. Let's talk about this. Talk to me about that.

Phil Synder: Tell you about that one?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, tell me about it.

Phil Synder: Well, obviously I wasn't there or whatever so my information comes from the first responders basically.

So [inaudible 00:43:09] called Mary Beth [inaudible 00:43:12] and her son, Michael Yokum, he speaks Japanese. He lived in Japan and whatever, so that's how they knew her. They were the ones that were called to the house. That's where my information comes from about that. And one point I want to make about this... Well, actually a couple of things I want to make about this. People overlook the false imprisonment part. Let's just say there was no rape. Okay. It wouldn't change the fact or wouldn't change the possibility, or I believe, there definitely was... A crime was committed. In addition to that was false imprisonment, that gets overlooked.

Dani O'Malley: [inaudible 00:44:07].

Phil Synder: They try to minimize this again, like, oh, they were boyfriend girlfriend. Okay, well, I think that's irrelevant because as far as I'm concerned a husband can rape his wife. Would you agree with that statement?

Dani O'Malley: Absolutely. I mean, I rescue people whoPhil Synder: Yeah, absolutely. The woman has to give consent. And if she doesn't give consent, which is what's in the transcript, is she said no. That's what I'm reading. That's my take on it. She said no, no means no. Plus she was asleep at the time, so there's no consent going on there.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. What I was reading in other things was it's rape because in Japanese culture they had consensual sex without a condom.

Phil Synder: Right. I'm aware of that that's what they say, right? Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I didn't read in a transcript. Did she testify in court? Because I haven't read that.

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Phil Synder: No, [inaudible 00:45:04] has not testified. That was Mary Beth testifying.

Dani O'Malley: It was just what Mary said.

Phil Synder: And Michael Yokum agreed with... They sped up the trial and it's like, okay, we'll just for the record say that he agrees with everything she just said. But anyway, that's two witnesses.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. She was asleep and she said no.

Phil Synder: Well, I mean, I'm just going off of the transcript, from what I recall from the transcript. I have it here.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I have it somewhere. I have it [inaudible 00:45:34].

Phil Synder: She was asleep. She said, "No. Stop." He kept going, whatever. But yeah, I'm aware that they said, "Oh, well, it's because he did his thing. He wasn't wearing a condom. That's a cultural misunderstanding." Or something. I'm fully aware of that line of reasoning. Again, it'sDani O'Malley: I just wanted to getPhil Synder: ... [inaudible 00:46:00] minimizing. It's like the sexual harassment thing, they try to minimize it and deflect. Another point about this I was going to mention, another issue was that Pastor Enrique Leal was encouraging Lucas to pursue her after this occurred. That's what happens too, I think, in churches.

Sometimes there's an issue or even a rape, and they'll say, "Well, you guys need to get married now.

That's how we'll solve this problem is you guys get married and then everything's cool." And the problem I have is these people are still there. Enrique Leal, he's still there. Russ Pfeifer, he's still an elder. And obviously Liam Goligher is still there. They need to not be there.

Dani O'Malley: Do you know who perpetuated the story that it was a cultural misunderstanding? Do you know where that came from?

Phil Synder: I would say Bruce McDowell. Apparently there was a meeting at Bruce McDowell's house. There's Bruce McDowell and his wife Anne. Mary Beth and Michael were there. I'm not sure if [inaudible 00:47:18]

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was there or not, she may have been. The other thing is they said, "Oh, well, Michael was in love with [inaudible 00:47:27]." Whatever. I don't know. They try to spin things.

Dani O'Malley: How I understand it is they were trying to protect, what it sounded like, trying to protect Lucas because he was in med school?

Phil Synder: Right. You investigate these things. They always... Well, that's how Boz got into this, right? You go into court and the church was always siding with the perpetrator, never the victim. And so, yeah, they were concerned, "Oh, we got to protect Lucas' medical license." That's another way to look at this thing with him and [inaudible 00:48:06] is, okay, let's assume it wasn't a rape, but she was screaming rape, right?

So he freaked out because he was thinking, "Oh, my medical license at this... I could lose my medical license, so I'm going to lock her in the house and take her cell phone away." And they make it worse.

Let's assume there wasn't a rape. Well, then you just committed the crime of false imprisonment because you were concerned about your medical license and you wanted to shut her up. So no, I believe she would've called the police that night if he hadn't stopped her doing it at the time.

Dani O'Malley: Is she stateside or she still in Japan, do you know?

Phil Synder: Last I heard she's in New Jersey, married some guy named Myers.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Last I heard, she was in New Jersey and married some guy named Myers, last name Myers, M-Y-ER-S. I think I might have her address. I told the church about her address. I gave them their address. I said, "You guys should really talk to her." She doesn't want anything to do with it. She doesn't want to talk to anybody.

Dani O'Malley: Understood.

Phil Synder: Last I heard.

Dani O'Malley: Why would she want to?

Phil Synder:

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Well, it's hard enough coming forward as a rape victim. It's really difficult to come forward. But imagine being a foreigner in another country and you don't speak the language that great. That must be daunting.

Dani O'Malley: Really scary. Yeah. I was watching some of your footage from picketing outside the church, and a lady named Meredith was talking to you. I think she was with Susan Elzey, and she was talking about... They weren't even members.

Phil Synder: Oh, Mary Beth [inaudible 00:50:15] and Michael Yokum weren't members?

Dani O'Malley: No, that Lucas and [inaudible 00:50:26] were members.

Phil Synder: They were going to the international group that still exists, that still meets there. They may not have been members, but this occurred at Pastor Bruce McDowell's house. Right. That's another thing. "Oh, it doesn't have anything to do with the church. It didn't happen at the church. They weren't members."

They tried to distance it. Well, it happened at a pastor's house, so that's how it's the connection to the church.

Dani O'Malley: That's how it's connected. Yeah.

Phil Synder: Yeah. They try to distance. "Oh, well, it didn't happen at the church. They weren't members." Whatever.

But yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Does it only count if it happens on church property?

Phil Synder: I guess. I guess. I don't know.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I'm just saying. Okay. Thank you for that. Let's see. We have the mentally ill lady. I saw those, that email chain. I don't have any questions about that.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Again, I think the significance of that is that's where Susan's animosity towards me began, and that's where her motive comes to lie in court, basically, and attack me online and what else she's doing.

Because like I said, when I was going to tenth she wasn't really on my radar. I barely knew her. Then all of a sudden-

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Dani O'Malley: Did Susan or [inaudible 00:51:59] ever come up to you?

Phil Synder: ... every time I go to courtDani O'Malley: About that [inaudible 00:52:01] victim?

Phil Synder: Every time I go to court she's there falsely testifying against me. I'm like, what is your deal? Same with Douglas Baker. I was like, "Dude, I've never spoken to you in my life." I guess his job was pretty miserable there. I made his life pretty miserable because people were complaining to him all the time about me protesting on the sidewalk, but I never talked to the guy ever. And then he's in court testifying against me. Another interesting thing about him is when he left 10th he went to go work for Cairn University. That's an interesting coincidence. Anyway.

Dani O'Malley: Did Susan ever come up to you and tell you she was offended?

Phil Synder: No, I didn't know anything about it until... Yeah, she just started testifying against me falsely in court and attacking me online and whatever. I forget how I made that connection. I'm not sure where that connection came from, but yeah.

Dani O'Malley: What ways was she attacking you online besides the Wartburg Watch comments?

Phil Synder: No, just the Wartburg Watch thing, and then every time I'm in court she's there falsely testifying against me. That was another interesting thing about that. She's testifying in court against me, and that's one of the reasons I got the injunction against me because of that incident with her and me. She said I yelled at her in front of her children, whatever. There was only one child. They were an adult. Anyway, I said six words. She saidDani O'Malley: I know, I watched.

Phil Synder: Yeah, literally, I said six words. She said, "How disappointing." I said, "Yes, you are."As in, she's disappointing. And then I thought about it for a minute. She started to go in, I said, "Lying in court." I said, "Yes, you are lying in court." Six words. And that got me banned from coming within 5,000 feet ofDani O'Malley:

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It wasn't even loud.

Phil Synder: Well, yeah, I wasn't screaming at her or everything.

Dani O'Malley: No. Phil Synder: At the end, she was a fair distance from me so I had to raise my voice a little bit for her to hear me.

When I heard it, I was like, well, this sounds kind of loud. I was like, well, the body camera is on me, so it's going to sound a little bit loud because it's right there on me, the body camera, that's where the recording device is. And she's 20, 30 feet away from me. So yeah, it was just ridiculous. Again, the judge is clearlyDani O'Malley: The college I went to, we'd have the street creatures heckling at everybody with the bullhorns or really aggressively saying we're all going to hell. I've dealt with all different kinds of things while being a police officer. I'm not Susan Elzey, but just from what I saw it didn't seem aggressive or threatening.

Phil Synder: Yeah, she's very sensitive apparently. I said six words and she's afraid of her life. Apparently people inside the church heard me because I was disrupting the services from whatever. It's just ridiculous.

Dani O'Malley: Well then tell me the news. Who? Phil Synder: I don't know if you saw that. Did you see that one body camera footage there in the middle of the thing or whatever where I'm at the police station, the Ninth District Police Station?

Dani O'Malley: Yes. Phil Synder: I'm talking to them about hiring a police officer to protect me from the church. I wanted to hire a police officer to come with me.

Dani O'Malley: An off duty one.

Phil Synder:

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To protect me from the church because I knew they were going to try something. I called the civil affairs people and they're like, "Well, we really can't spare anybody on a Sunday like that." I was like, well, okay, well, I guess I'll wear the body camera and whatever. But anyway, it's just... Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right. For the Maranatha thing, the sleepover, your main concern was they did not call the police when there was children involved.

Phil Synder: Right. Yeah. So this is my recurring theme with these people is they didn't call the... And that's where I went wiki with Marion Clark. I think that's in that email is when he said, "The men handled the situation well." Really? Because they didn't call the police when a crime was committed.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, yeah. When they just escorted the man outside.

Phil Synder: Yeah, yeah. We threatened to call the police on him, and then he left. Okay. So you just let the perpetrator leave the scene of a crime and you didn't call the police and they did a good job? I don't think so.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Their job isn't to investigate if there was a crime, their job is to report.

Phil Synder: To call the police. When there's a crime, you call the police.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Okay. So the deacon stole from the offering, right? You call the police. You can decide later not to prosecute.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: But initially when there's a crime committed, you call the police, period.

Dani O'Malley: So at this pointPhil Synder:

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That one where Liam said about the police officer who was armed and ready to act or whatever, he said, "Yeah, we're picking up on what you're saying about the police and we're getting the police involved."

Or whatever. I don't know. But yeah, every time crime after crime after crime is occurring and no one's calling the police, I'm like, call the police. I type in there my email. I say to JT Tartikoff, "I thought we agreed that when a crime's committed we're going to call the police. I thought we made that clear to everybody." He said, "Why didn't anybody call the police?"

Dani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: Apparently somebody did call the police later at the Maranatha thing, but it happened at the church, and nobody from the church called the police to the church. That's when I called Officer Steven Keifer.

Dani O'Malley: Gotcha.

Phil Synder: But someone did call later.

Dani O'Malley: It was a parent.

Phil Synder: It wasn't to the church, and she wasn't a church person.

Dani O'Malley: It was a parent of one of the kids.

Phil Synder: Right. They tried to track the cell phones or something. They pinged the cell phone and they got a reading, but by the time they got there there was nothing for... And nobody could do anything. But anyway, so that'sDani O'Malley: We're getting close to... I don't think I had any documentation for this one, but I could be wrong, about Vince Bragan stealing money?

Phil Synder: No, no. I don't have any emails or anything like that. My source for that was Frank Pulcini, the chair of the diaconate. It's not something that is denied by the church. Again, what got me is these guys allowing him to take the offering and seeking to have him reinstated as a deacon after he stole from the offering, which in my view they should have called the police in the first place. But if you're not going to do that, don't be letting him take the offering again and seeking to have him reinstated as a deacon. It's like,

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what is wrong with you people? But yeah, it's not something the church is going to deny. I mean, there are plenty of... Frank Pulcini, you could ask him, or you could ask anybody. Everybody knows that he did it so there's not really a debate. But no, I don't have any emails or hard evidence.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I didn't know if you did or not. I think I saw that later in some of the transcripts where that's talked about.

Phil Synder: Okay.

Dani O'Malley: Him having given the money back or something and everythingPhil Synder: Right. He gave back what he told you he stole because you have no idea how much he stole, right?

Dani O'Malley: Just what you know of.

Phil Synder: He said he stole this much, so he paid everything back that he said he stole, even though you have no idea. And his wife continued to be a deaconess, even though she probably knew what he was doing, right? I mean, I would assume.

Dani O'Malley: Maybe.

Phil Synder: Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But I wasn't real cool with her continuing to be a deaconess after this, but that's just my opinion.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about the congregational meeting [inaudible 01:00:59]. We can talk about Paul Jones leaving. I don't have any questions about that. I'm pretty up to date on everything that happened with Paul Jones. I didn't know too much about the congregational meeting with the departure of Marion on March [inaudible 01:01:20].

Phil Synder: Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. That was necessary to separate him from 10th Presbyterian Church so he could get another job somewhere else. That was not premeditated. I didn't go into that planning on doing this.

If you listen to Liam Goligher's sermon from that particular Sunday, he got me going with the sermon because I knew what he was saying in his sermon that most of the congregation didn't understand what he was saying. Then he also said, "I want to make it perfectly clear here that Marion Clark is leaving

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voluntarily." Which is code for, he's not really leaving voluntarily. We forced him out. And with the whole thing with Paul Jones leaving to a standing ovation and a reception in his honor. I was like, okay, I'm not going to let this happen again with Marion Clark. He's not getting out of here [inaudible 01:02:24].

Dani O'Malley: So you knew when Paul Jones left that he had been fired? He hadn't been... He wasn't just going to another job. Did you know that at the time in February 2nd?

Phil Synder: Oh, when he left then? I don't know that I was real clear. I think Frank Pulcini clued me in. I wasn't really clear about what was going on. I knew something was going on. I don't know that I knew how much of the details I knew at that time. I think it might've been unclear exactly what was going on, but I knew something was going on. I knew they were lying. I pretty much knew that. I just wasn't real... The congregation in general didn't really know until the meeting on... I just noticed that my timeline here is a little messed up here. Anyway, the meeting on 3/30... Oh, I just forgot the lastDani O'Malley: Yeah, I got it. 3/30/2014.

Phil Synder: 3/30/14, that's when they... Because of what I said on the 16th, that's when they had to two weeks later tell the congregation. That's when everybody found out exactly the truth about what was going on with Paul Jones.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. When you were talking about he had failed to report crimes, you're talking about all of the things that had happened before, not the naked beatings at that point?

Phil Synder: No, I wasn't really talking about the naked beatings. I don't know that I was aware of that, all that, the sexual harassment, the theft of the offering. I could just tell what Marion Clark was. Like I said, Liam Goligher confirmed later in one of my private meetings, he said to me that Marion Clark... The elders made a mistake trusting Marion Clark, that he would manage and bury things, his term. It wasn't a premeditated thing. I didn't really have all my ducks in a row, so yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Gotcha. Okay. Let's see. I don't think I saw this in your notes, but I pulled minutes. This was minutes of the session on March 25th, 2014. I guess you appeared before the session. Do you remember that?

Phil Synder: Yeah. On 4/22/14, because I accused Marion Clark, there was a session meeting.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, I have one at 3/25, March 25th. I see the 4/22 one.

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Phil Synder: I don't see a March 25th.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I'm looking at the minutes that I got, unless they're wrong.

Phil Synder: Oh, well, that would've been after the presbytery meeting. Okay. Yeah.. The meeting on 4/22 was a Friday, so if you're saying the 25th then that would've been the Sunday, the 25th, so that makes sense.

That's when theyDani O'Malley: This was on a Tuesday.

Phil Synder: Oh, was it on Tuesday? Oh, that's right. Well, I don't know.

Dani O'Malley: Let's see. It says he discusses comments.

Phil Synder: My meeting was on the 22nd when I appeared before the presbyterianDani O'Malley: Maybe you weren't there.

Phil Synder: On the 25th, I wasn't. No, I wasn't there for the 25th. That was their [inaudible 01:06:15].

Dani O'Malley: They might've just been talking about...

Phil Synder: They might've been [inaudible 01:06:18].

Dani O'Malley: Talking about getting you to confess to some things. Was there a committee that you know of that handled you after that?

Phil Synder: Yeah, they had several three men teams that tried to tame me, but they were all unsuccessful. Yeah.

There were three man teams that tried to work with me, or more than one three man team, if I recall.

Yeah.

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Dani O'Malley: I don't have the minutes for 4/22/24, but I can get those.

Phil Synder: 4/22/14, you mean? Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. I don't have those yet, but I can get those.

Phil Synder: Yeah, the presbytery was there too, by the way.

Dani O'Malley: On 4/22?

Phil Synder: Yeah, so that would be people outside of tenth.

Dani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: That's how they work. Well, you read that article. You pull in your buddies and your whatever colleagues, and they come in and they say, "Yep, you're cool. Everything's clear here."

Dani O'Malley: Understood.

Phil Synder: That's how that works.

Dani O'Malley: I don't know about this thing with Pat Canavan on 5/4/2014. The head of security building administrator told you that there was a child molestation, which had not been reported to the police.

Phil Synder: Yeah, that's what he told me. I don't know why. I was thinking, well, he's an elder. He's the head of security. He's telling me this. I'm calling the FBI because sometimes the church's and the law enforcement's there's too close of a relationship there. So Dani O'Malley: It can be, yeah.

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Phil Synder: That's when I called in the FBI. I said, "Well, we've got to call in the FBI and get them to look at this."

Anyway, and then apparently the police had been called. Anyway, Detective O'Malley reinvestigated it and said, "Yep, the original conclusion was correct." Then one of the comments he made to me, which I thought was interesting, was he was like, "Yeah, the parents were nearby, so that's one reason I didn't find the accusations credible because the parents were in such close proximity." Well, we know from Larry Nassar that doesn't always pan out. Anyway, I'm just dumbfounded as to why Pat Canavan would say that when the police actually were called apparently. I don't know why he told me they weren't.

Anyway.

Dani O'Malley: Do you know how old the child was?

Phil Synder: Do I know who the child was?

Dani O'Malley: Do you know anything about the child or no?

Phil Synder: No, I don't know specifics. There was an accusation was made and the police were called, it was investigated. They determined, no, nothing to see here. When I called it in, they reinvestigated it and said, "Nope, still nothing to see here." I don't really know specifics. I'm just really baffled about why Pat Canavan would say that to me. It kind of made me look bad I guess. The FBI, I think they were pretty much done with me at that point. Oh, well Dani O'Malley: Okay. The email from Hugh on May 6th. I have a May 7th.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, afterDani O'Malley: I don't see the original email unless you... I just have your response to Hugh's email and then his response to you.

Phil Synder: Yeah, I have it here. It's a big file. It was really wanting to go into it. The point is, after that meeting when I spoke out on the 16th, they started in on me immediately threatening to excommunicate me, threatening to sue me, whatever. Then eventually they deny ever threatening to excommunicate me or to sue me. Then of course, since then, obviously they have actually done what they said they didn't threaten to do, which was they actually did excommunicate me and they did sue me. Which is kind of interesting because Liam Goligher testified at the induction hearing on 10/10/17 that would be against his religion to sue me. I don't know if his religion changed or what.

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Anyway. I guess I'm just pointing out that they were threatening me already, and they called the police to that congregational meeting on 3/30, by the way. They were already threatening on me with the police, using the police as their personal thugs or something.

Dani O'Malley: How did you find out about that?

Phil Synder: Frank Fulcheney told me. He said something to me like, "Hey, they called the police." Or, "Don't do anything because they're going to arrest you and whatever."

Dani O'Malley: Arrest you for what?

Phil Synder: I didn't even go to that meeting. I was downstairs watching the kids. My wife went upstairs to the meeting. There's been this theme, and again with that letter where Liam Goligher said there was a armed policeman ready to act. Anyway, that was an elder installation. Ever since I spoke out on that congregational meeting on the 3/16/14, they've been afraid I was going to speak out again. They called the police to the meeting on 3/30/14, and they had a police officer there at that elder installation that Sunday, an armed police officer ready to act to stop me because they never wanted me to say anything again.

Dani O'Malley: If you were so dangerous, then why did they leave you with the kids?

Phil Synder: Right. That's a good point. I was going to mention that. I was a Sunday school teacher. I worked with the children in the music program. I worked in special needs with an autistic kid, so I constantly worked with children. I was a deacon. I was in the choir. They actually let me sing. Did you see my solo there in 2015?

Dani O'Malley: I did.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Actually, there was kind of a lull there where supposedly we were patching things up and we're going to try to work it out. Anyway. Yeah. If I'm mentally delusional and you're letting me work with these children, then you're guilty of gross negligence and incompetence.

Dani O'Malley: How were you threatened with excommunication? Was that in person, email, text?

Phil Synder:

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Yeah. Originally, I have a whole file on this. I didn't really think you'd be that interested in it, honestly.

Where's that yellow file?

Dani O'Malley: Trust but verify, my friend. Trust but verify.

Phil Synder: I have a whole file on it somewhere. I just didn't really think it was that relevant. I'm not sure if it was an email or a letter, but I have a whole bunch ofDani O'Malley: The reason I think it's important is I would like to have something. They're saying, "We didn't threaten you." Then you have something that says they did, because that would speak to, you did and here it is.

We can seePhil Synder: Yeah, I definitely have it. I definitely have a whole file on it. I didn't put it on my kitchen table here. I didn't think it was going to be relevant, but I can certainly scan it and send it to you.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I appreciate that.

Phil Synder: Should I send it to Emily or to you?

Dani O'Malley: We'll get it if you send it to Emily.

Emily Petrie: Yeah, you can send it to me.

Phil Synder: Okay. Let's see. I've got notes here.

Dani O'Malley: I would just need to seePhil Synder: Okay. You want the [Boz 01:14:52] emails and you want the Hugh Taylor excommunication stuff?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. That would be before May 7th, you have here on May 6th.

Phil Synder:

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Yeah, I mean, they started on me right away. Yeah, I know I have that whole file. I can tell you what color it is. It's yellow. It's probably in my basement.

Dani O'Malley: That's how I remember.

Phil Synder: I really didn't think you would be that interested in it, but I'll send that to you if you'reDani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: If there's anything you want, and part of it is there's such a massive amount of stuff that I have, emails and documents, I don't want to overwhelm you with everything.

Dani O'Malley: That's what we do. That's why we ask.

Phil Synder: I didn't think that would beDani O'Malley: Yeah. Just if you have somethingPhil Synder: I've got notes there on Boz and the Hugh Taylor thing, so I'll send you guys that stuff.

Emily Petrie: Yeah, I'll add that. It's pretty relevant to what we're looking into. Part of our scope is looking at how Tenth handles allegations of sexual misconduct and behavioral. I think significant conduct is a specific wording, significant misconduct. Certainly how they responded to you when you confronted them about these things is relevant to what we're looking into. That's helpful toPhil Synder: I'll send you stuff on that. I definitely have it.

Emily Petrie: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Dani O'Malley: All right. The next thing is not on your list, but it is on session minutes. It's before August 26th session.

It's a session on June 24th. It says, "Deacon Phil Snyder appeared before session per book at church

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order 38-1. It made the following offenses known to the court that he committed in his public comments at the March 16th, 2014, Tenth congregational meeting." Is this ringing a bell?

Phil Synder: I have a note there. I was deposed on 8/26/14 from the Deacon.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I have that.

Phil Synder: Yeah, and so I was deposed.

Dani O'Malley: This is the confession on June 24th and then August 26th, and that's when they say that you're guilty and they disqualify for the office of Deaconship on the 26th. On June 24th, it says that you're present and that you essentially said that you did these things, violating 1 Timothy 5:19. "Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two witnesses." Two, violating the 1 Timothy 5:1-2, "Do not rebuke an older man, blah, blah, blah." Deuteronomy 19:15, "The single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime, blah, blah, blah." Matthew 18:15, 1 Timothy 3:8-10, "Deacons, we now have to be dignified, prove themself blameless." I just want to make sure that you were there and they're not making up that you were there.

Phil Synder: I believe I was there on 8/26/14.

Dani O'Malley: Not June 24th?

Phil Synder: June, 6/24. I don't know, but what you're telling me rings a bell. I probably have documents on that somewhere. I willDani O'Malley: Okay. Just show the date for you is June 24th.

Phil Synder: Okay. I'll look into it. I mean, what you're telling me does ring a bell. I remember something aboutDani O'Malley: I just want to verify.

Phil Synder:

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Something about that where they were trying... I agreed to plead guilty on one count of something, which was kind of like nothing, but I was just throwing the dogs a bone to get them off my back. Yeah. I kind of remember A, B, C, D, E-F-G-H-I-J-K, whateverDani O'Malley: One, two, three, there's five.

Phil Synder: I never agreed. Same with Judge Fletman. I never said that what I said was false.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: I would say that I never agreed that what I said was false. I might've said it was, I think it might've been not appropriate or not followingDani O'Malley: Okay. That's what it looks like.

Phil Synder: Not following the book of church order or something like that, the protocols or some kind ofDani O'Malley: That's what looks like.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Something like that is what I recall. I think I have documents on that somewhere. I just really didn't think anybody would need them.

Dani O'Malley: That's okay. I just want to make sure. Then in August, you were deposed.

Phil Synder: Deposed from being a deacon. They wouldn't let me resign, by the way. I offered to step down and voluntarily resign and they wouldn't let me. No, we're going to force you to.

Dani O'Malley: Do you remember why they said that?

Phil Synder: I don't know. I don't know what their reasons are. Apparently they wanted to forcibly remove me, wouldn't allow me to voluntarily just step down. I don't know. Who knows? Their ecclesiastical protocols and games and whatever.

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Dani O'Malley: Okay. Here we go. This one is about... I think we went through all these. Yeah, I have all the emails about you wanting to request to meet with SVU detective and Powery and they said no. Matter's closed.

Phil Synder: Yeah, we discussed the matter and consider it closed. We're done talking to you about this. We're done, so shut up.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. 2014, December 14th, elder JT Tartikoff warned Mr. Snyder that if he did not drop the accusations, his family would get hurt. How did he tell you that? How did that information get to you?

Phil Synder: Oh, well, yeah. I was in the basement of the church in the catacombs in kind of the Sunday School special needs area, and he just dragged me into a side storage room. It's kind of weird. By the way, JT Tartikoff is a former police officer and an assistant DA, by the way. He was elder. Anyway, so he just kind of dragged me in there, and he seemed kind of agitated. I think he was agitated about the Patrick Addo thing because he was kind of involved with that, and it's potentially a federal felony.

Anyway, he was just kind of like, "You need to knock this off and drop your accusations. Your family's going to get hurt." I said, "Well, what do you mean?" He wouldn't tell me. I was like, "Well, that's not real cool. You tell me my family's going to get hurt, and you won't tell me why." Another little tidbit for you. JT Tartikoff gave me a car once upon a time, and he was like aDani O'Malley: He gave you a car?

Phil Synder: Yeah, it was like an older car, and I'm a mechanic. He gave it to me knowing that I would use it to help someone. Fix it up and give it to someone or whatever. Something like that. I mean, a lot of these people wereDani O'Malley: Friends.

Phil Synder: My friends or whatever.

Dani O'Malley: Family.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Then I filed a criminal complaint with the DC number that you can probably access and track.

Dani O'Malley:

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I did not track it yet.

Phil Synder: Yeah, but I'm trying to create a paper trail here. That's the reason I filed the criminal complaint is I'm creating a paper trail. I'm creating documentation. That's what my thinking is behind that. I think law enforcement looked into that. I think I contacted, who are the people with working with the Attorney General? That branch of law enforcement. I think the one, Jim Ello. I remember him, his email was jello.

Anyway, so I think the elders talked to him about it. I think somebody from the state law enforcement talked to JT Tartikoff about it. Basically, it's him and me in the room, nothing can be proven, whatever.

Anyway, another importance of this is, so when we're at the defamation trial and my lawyer him questions about it and he says, "I don't remember what I said." I just find that hard to believe since he was grilled on it by the elders and law enforcement about what he said. Then it comes the defamation trial, and he says, "I don't remember what I said." I'm like, really? I don't believe you. I'm sorry.

Dani O'Malley: The next thing, Russ Pfeifer confirmed that Pastor Marion Clark had threatened to sue you.

Phil Synder: Yeah, because there was some debate about that. We were at this meeting at Hugh Taylor's house and what's his name was there. What's his name? Kocher. Some guy Kocher or something. I haven't thought of these people in a long time. Anyway, the person I asked to come with me because I thought he was my friend. Anyway. I heard Russ Pfeifer say that Marion Clark was threatening to sue me if I said anything more, but my friend didn't hear him say that. He mumbled it under his breath or something, I think. Anyway, so that was previously. Then I had this meeting with Russ Pfeifer, and I questioned him about it again, and he said, "Yes, Marion Clark did threaten to sue you if you said anything more." That's what that note is about.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah. I can't believe I can't remember that guy's name. I'm going to go pull my church directory here.

Dani O'Malley: How are you doing? Do you want to take a break for a second?

Phil Synder: No, I'm good. I just can't believe I can't remember this guy's name. Kocher. yeah, that's it.

Dani O'Malley: Joe Kocher.

Phil Synder:

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Kocher, K-O-C-H-E-R. Yeah. They're an interesting family. They're all carrying firearms. One of his brothers carried a exposed firearm into church once and his dadDani O'Malley: Oh, I remember that story. I did read that in your emails.

Phil Synder: Yeah. That was his brother.

Dani O'Malley: A very jealous young man.

Phil Synder: They're big gun people. His dad packs. They're all packing. We were like, if anything happens, you and I got this covered. Again, he was like a friend of mine, used to be. The only friend I have now, by the way, is Eric [Benetti 01:27:13]. He's the only one who stuck with me.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: That's the way it goes. Lose a lot of friends in these kinds of things.

Dani O'Malley: All right. Next thing is your letter, the first letter, I think it was sent out January 18th. Does that sound right?

Phil Synder: Yeah. It was between the 14th and the 21st. Somewhere in that.

Dani O'Malley: I think I found it on your blog. I think it said the 18th. I just want to make sure.

Phil Synder: Yeah. That sounds right.

Dani O'Malley: That's probably right. Yeah. How was this one disseminated?

Phil Synder: I'm a good old. I spent thousands of dollars on stamps, let's put it that way.

Dani O'Malley:

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Oh, you mailed them? Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah, I'm mailing letters. I spent thousands of dollars on stamps. I'll just say that.

Dani O'Malley: How many do you think you mailed out?

Phil Synder: The first time?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Well, I'll say right now I'm down to, there are about 200 people on my list now. Also, in the beginning, the first letter was probably the most people I mailed to, but that was pretty taxing. Anyway, hundreds. I don't know, 400 or 500 people maybe.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. 400 plus we'll put.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Can you just share what your thought process was in mailing this letter and what was your hope for mailing it?

Phil Synder: Yeah, so that's what I was trying to do here is show this track record of I want to meet with the session about the rape. No, we've talked to it. We've discussed it, and we consider the matter closed. Well, you have to have firsthand information. Well, I have firsthand information about the illegal alien, so let's meet about that. No, we don't want to talk about that either. Okay. Well, I want to meet with Steve Ford. I don't really think he should be an elder because he didn't call the police when he was with the [Miranasa 01:29:37] thing. No. You can't meet with him. We're not going to talk to you. Okay, well then I'm going to mail a letter to the congregation because I've attempted to work with you people and you're just shutting me down and telling me to shut up, so now it's time to go beyond you and to the congregation.

Because the church is very important to me. I didn't really want to leave the church, but they gave me no choice at this point I felt. Because I tried to work with them, and they're just telling me to shut up.

"Shut up. We're not meeting with you. We're not talking to you. We're not listening to you. Blah, blah, blah, la la, la." Whatever. I didn't just off the cuff mail this letter out of the blue.

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Dani O'Malley: Absolutely.

Phil Synder: There was stuff leading up to this, and at that point, I really didn't feel there was any other route available to me. I just had to put it out there for the congregation. I felt they needed to know this stuff.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. We frequently get people that, or we hear of it. I wouldn't say frequently, but they've been sent out the church, and they're the ones putting leaflets on car windshields in the parking lot, because nobody's listening.

Phil Synder: Right.

Dani O'Malley: It's not unheard of to do this. A lot of the time it's on social media. It's not the old-fashioned mailing letters, but it's the same thing.

Phil Synder: Yeah. I'm pretty old-fashioned, as you can probably gather.

Dani O'Malley: Were you still attending the church at this time?

Phil Synder: I didn't leave until they had me escorted out of the church with the police officer on whatever that was, 10/23/16. While we're on that, one of the things that irritated me about that was it was on a Sunday, and my family was with me, including my minor children. This was against the advice of their own legal counsel. They told them not to do this this way, and they did it anyway.

Dani O'Malley: With your child and your wife on a Sunday.

Phil Synder: With my wife and children. Again, that was not cool.

Dani O'Malley: I can relate.

Phil Synder: Anyway. I didn't voluntarily leave the church. I had no choice. Be arrested or leave.

Dani O'Malley:

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Okay. I want to get back to that. The church sent out a letter saying that you possibly received a horrible and slanderous email. Were you signing the letters still, or are you using a moniker?

Phil Synder: Yeah. I think the actual letter with the stamps and stuff was, I think I said whatever, it had my name on it. Then also, I think I was experimenting with emails or something and I said Malachi or something. I'm referring to a verse in Malachi or something Malachi.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: That's where that comes from. I think that might've been like an email experiment or something. There might've been some, but the Malachi thing, that was me, or whatever it was.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Was it the same letter or was that for a different letter?

Phil Synder: I don't recall. I'd have to look into it. I think the letter that I mailed had my name on it, but then I was experimenting with emails or something. Because from time to time, I kind of experiment with things. I think that's where the confusion was with the Malachi thing. I think the Malachi thing was pretty secondary, minor.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I just want to make sure, because I heard the Malachi thing and I didn't know. That's why I was checking.

Phil Synder: Yeah, Malachi was me. Yeah, I think, yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I'm just agreeing with you that what they're saying is the church sent this out, a response to your letter that it was horrible and slanderous. [inaudible 01:34:10] Phil Synder: Again, then I think I threatened to sue them or something. Then they, apologize or else, and so then they sent another letter saying, "Oh, his letter was not a horrible slander and utterly false." They apologized to me for saying that, which is kind of interesting because then we have the defamation trial coming along and then they said, "Oh, what was utterly false in your letter was saying that the sexual harassment, or you called it sexual assault."

Dani O'Malley: well, they called it sexual assault.

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Phil Synder: I called it sexual assault, and technically it wasn't, it was sexual harassment. My point is on the letter 2/14/16 where they retracted their statements that my letter was a horrible slander and utterly false.

My take on it, and if you read those emails like Frank Fultini and Pat Canavan, everybody's calling in an assault. Sexual assault, assault.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. I saw that.

Phil Synder: It's not like I'm just out on a limb. Nobody ever said anything until we come to the defamation trial, and all of a sudden their clever lawyer figures out that actually it's not sexual assault, it's sexual harassment, and so this is what we're going to say was a horrible slander in his original letter. Despite the fact that they didn't know that in 2/14/16, which is why they apologized to me and said it wasn't a horrible slander or false. Then the defamation trial comes and they said, "Oh, actually it was." At the time I asked George McFarland, "What are you saying is utterly false, the horrible slander?" He said, "I don't know.

Can you meet with these people and talk to them? Maybe they know. I don't know." Anyway. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: When was the secondary letter where they retracted? Was that sent around the same time?

Phil Synder: I sent my letter out on 1/18, and then they emailed the congregation on 1/21. Also, that was on their church website. Then on 2/14, they retracted their statements that my letter was a horrible slander, utterly false. It was 1/18, my letter, 1/21, their letter saying it's a horrible slander. Then they come back on 2/14 and say, "No, actually it wasn't a horrible slander."

Dani O'Malley: Okay, 2/14 you said?

Phil Synder: Yeah. By the way, that wasDani O'Malley: Okay. I see it. Sorry.

Phil Synder: That was an email to the entire congregation. Anybody who was a member at that time, they could pull up their email and have that on their Gmail or whatever.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I've read this February 6th email from Liam. Then when I first read it, I said, I'm missing some context because I don't see the threat, but you obviously were in it and there could be more context that I wasn't getting.

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Phil Synder: Oh, yeah. The 2/06/16 one there?

Dani O'Malley: Where he's saying, "You have been barking or just continually being persistent about we need police, we need police, we need police, but you also already had a police officer, according to Frank Jeanie, who came there on that 3/30 meeting to make sure you didn't disrupt anything. You have a police officer."

According to Frank. When I read this, I was like, okay, well, he's finally doing what he needs to do.

Phil Synder: Right.

Dani O'Malley: Is this right?

Phil Synder: The context then is again, so when he says last Sunday, he's talking about a specific Sunday, it was an elder installation Sunday, and I was against Russ Pfeifer becoming an elder because he had stated that if a woman's in bed with the man, she deserves whatever happens to her. This guyDani O'Malley: Where did he say that?

Phil Synder: It's in the rape, false imprisonment court documents.

Dani O'Malley: He said that in the documents. I saw that in the documents.

Phil Synder: He didn't say that, but Mary Beth [Gamoline 01:38:32] testifies that that's what he said.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. That's right.

Phil Synder: She names Russ Pfeifer, and that's what he said. Something to that effect. Okay. Yeah, if you're in bed with a guy, whatever happens, you deserve it.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder:

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Again, so they were concerned that I was going to disrupt the service. Whatever. They had this John [Hermick 01:38:59], I don't know if that's the police officer Liam Goligher is referring to or not. I think he's a former police officer. He was part of the security apparatus. He followed me. He was following me around the church. He followed me up to the choir loft. Only he and I were there. We were the only two up there. He was following me. He was telling me that specifically... Ask John Hermick why he was there.

Ask the police officer what he was told, why was he there? They were there because of me. That's what they were there for. That's fine, but don't email me and tell me that there's an armed police officer there ready to act.

Dani O'Malley: That's helpful.

Phil Synder: Obviously in my reply, I emailed them back, so obviously at the time I'm seeing this is a threat because the police kill people, especially when you give them information, they're mentally ill, they're delusional.

They fit the profile of a mass shooter. They're armed in dangerous. I go and reach into my coat pocket.

Well, maybe he thinks I'm going to reach for a gun and he'll just take me out right there. A furtive movement or something, or whatever they call it. They're saying I'm mentally and delusional because like Judge Paula Patrick, "Oh, he thinks the church is going to hire a hit man to take him out. He's imagining some imaginary thing." No. It's a specific Sunday. It's a specific email. It's a specific person. I'm not imagining something. I'm not delusional.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. That's what I needed from you, was just that extra context. I think we [inaudible 01:40:54].

Phil Synder: Yeah. That's what's going on. I'm sitting here talking to you, explaining all this stuff. The judges, they don't get the full context. You're sitting there and at the defamation trial, basically I'm just a punching bag up there for their lawyer. You can't explain yourself. They let youDani O'Malley: No. You have to have a good attorney paying attention, and it sounds like you might not have.

Phil Synder: Oh, yeah, Gary Sams, he's a super lawyer, and I got an incompetent lawyer who doesn't do any discovery or tell me to look at the jury or anything. Anyway. That was what was going on with that particular Sunday. You can talk to John Hermick, I gave you his contact information, who he is.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, you did.

Phil Synder: Ask him, why were you following Phil up to the choir loft that Sunday? Were you the armed police officer he's talking about, or was he talking about somebody else? Anyway. My point is I'm not like

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Judge Paula Patrick saying that I'm delusional thinking that the church has a hitman out to get me. No, it's not a hitman. It's a police officer.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah, so.

Dani O'Malley: I got it. I got it. I'm stringing it together.

Phil Synder: Yeah, yeah.

Dani O'Malley: That second part that Liam's talking about, were you handing out material outside the church at that point?

Phil Synder: Yeah, I guess. Let's see. I was probably-Dani O'Malley: The same letter, or?

Phil Synder: Yeah, I might've been standing out on the sidewalk handing out letters or something like that probably.

Yeah, I would guess that would be what he's referring to there.

Dani O'Malley: Is it... Yeah, I guess he-Phil Synder: But it's a public sidewalk. I'm just handing out letters, again. And the injunction hearing 10/10/17, the judge said, yeah, I have a right to do that. She didn't have a problem with that.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, and that's legal.

Phil Synder: That's another interesting thing. It's like, is this double jeopardy or something? Because they said I was threatening and harassing people in 2017, and the judge said, "No, he is not. He has a constitutional right to do this." And then they come back in 2019 and say he's threatening and harassing people again.

Isn't that like double jeopardy or something? So they said I was threatening and harassing people in

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2017. That one didn't work, so they came back two years later and like, "Well, now we're going to say he's got a sign and he's a mass shooter. So maybe this time..." That doesn't seem right. It's double jeopardy or something like that.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. You know what? I'm not an attorney and I don't know the rules in Pennsylvania. Even though I live in Pennsylvania now, I do not know the rules, but it sounds very confusing from what you're telling me.

Phil Synder: Yeah, they shouldn't even be allowed to do it again because they already did it once. A matter of fact, I think I talked to... There's a famous UPenn civil rights lawyer I was communicating with. Rudovsky, David Rudovsky. I talked to him about this. He said something about that, something about this being like double jeopardy or the same thing in another venue. It shouldn't be allowed to even occur. Because they already lost once and now they're trying the same thing again, trying to massage it differently. And anyway, it shouldn't even be allowed, I don't think. But anyway.

Emily Petrie: Yeah, it's called claim preclusion in civil settings, but same idea as double jeopardy essentially.

Phil Synder: Yeah, it's double jeopardy. Shouldn't be allowed. But anyway.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, I'm sorry that you went through that. I do have some questions. I have an email here on March 4th, 2016 addressed to James or Jim Hala.

Phil Synder: Okay. It's not on my timeline, but yeah.

Dani O'Malley: No, it says, "Jim, I don't mean to rush you, but you should probably know that I'm considering handing out more letters on Sunday. You hypocritical lying scumbags are making me upset again. Are you people stupid or what?"

Phil Synder: Yep, I sent that.

Dani O'Malley: Who is Jim? Phil Synder: Jim Hala? He was an elder and he might've been... I think he was part of the three-man team assigned to me. And also he was a trumpet player with Westminster Brass.

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Dani O'Malley: The famous Westminster Brass.

Phil Synder: So yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay, so you had already sent your first letter. Do you know what prompted you to get upset in this letter? With Jim? Phil Synder: Yeah. I think because I was aware that they were spinning things and they were saying, "Of course, anybody who criticizes leadership must be mentally ill or something." That's what happens. If you criticize the leadership, you're mentally ill somehow. And I think I was aware that they were spinning the rape thing like, "Oh, it's just a cultural misunderstanding. Whatever." And so I just... Well, no. Okay, yeah. Right. Because then they sent out that letter denying they threatened to sue me or excommunicate me, or whatever. Denying that they'd ever threatened me basically. That's it. That's what it was. Yes. 7/20/16, they sent out a letter denyingDani O'Malley: So this is in March.

Phil Synder: So anyway.

Dani O'Malley: So the only thing that happened before that is Liam talking about having his armed guard [inaudible 01:47:10] that. That's the only thing. And that was in February and this is in March.

Phil Synder: I'm sorry, I was having trouble hearing you there.

Dani O'Malley: All I have is the email from Liam to you about having the armed officer. And you mention that in this.

You say, "PS, I forgot to mention another reason I did not take communion because I was concerned you might try to poison me, which was not too far off since you had a gunman ready to kill me if I gave him the opportunity."

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, yeah, if they're going to endanger you. And I think that was brought up before Paula Patrick.

And my response was, "Well, if they're going to endanger your life in one way, they might endanger your life in another way." But yeah, so it's kind of interesting. It's kind of the point where they say I'm mentally ill because I think they're trying to kill me, but aren't they mentally ill because they think I'm trying to kill them? If you use that logic. So I don't know. But it's all very hot. It's very heated. It's very--

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Dani O'Malley: Yeah. I can tell you're mad, right? It's not...

Phil Synder: It's intense and emotional to the point that both sides think the other side is going to kill the other side, basically. I guess, to that boiling point. But I'm not actually mentally ill and delusional. If I was mentally ill and delusional, yeah, I might do that. But I'm not, so. I'm a rational, reasonable person. So anyway.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I just-Phil Synder: Yeah, I just think it's interesting that I'm mentally ill because I think they're trying to kill me, but if you follow that logic then wouldn't they be mentally ill for thinking I'm trying to kill them? I don't know. I don't know.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Had you ever gotten any threats besides the one from Liam that you took as bodily harm? They were going to possibly take action? Is there any other one, any other thing between that time period that you can think of?

Phil Synder: No, not really. Possibly the JT Tartikoff one, because he said my family's going to be hurt and he wouldn't answer my question. I don't know what that means. I can't read his mind if he's not going to communicate with me what he meant. I guess that's possible. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what that means. So yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: So no, I would say pretty much as far as physical threats goes, that was it, other than maybe the JT Tartikoff thing.

Dani O'Malley: Okay, that's good.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: There's a lot of information, I'm trying to [inaudible 01:50:08] Phil Synder:

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Yeah, it's massive. It's a massive amount of stuff. A lot of you know.

Dani O'Malley: This is my thought, because I want to make sure we get... I'm pretty much almost done with what I got, but I think it'll take longer than 45 minutes. I want to kind of be done tonight at 9 o'clock, because I'm in the city and I got to go walk out [inaudible 01:50:31].

Phil Synder: Oh. What time is it? I don't even know.

Dani O'Malley: 8:20. So let's go as far as we can. Would you mind doing another-Phil Synder: When you say "the city," what city do you mean?

Dani O'Malley: Philadelphia.

Phil Synder: Oh, yeah, you're... Yeah, oof. Philadelphia.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: I got held up in Philadelphia, by the way, myself.

Dani O'Malley: I'm in South Philly.

Phil Synder: I was proud of myself. I got my wallet back from the guy. I asked it back from him very nicely and he gave it to me, so I thought that was good.

Dani O'Malley: So I would like to get out by 9:00.

Phil Synder: Absolutely.

Dani O'Malley:

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But I would like to talk to you again and get the rest of the things. And when we kind of go through the documents again in this conversation that we've had and get those other documents for you, we can finish up where we left off and then address any of the questions we have. Would that be okay?

Phil Synder: Okay. So you want to end now, is that what you're saying?

Dani O'Malley: No, we can end at 9:00.

Phil Synder: Oh, you've got another 40 minutes. Okay.

Dani O'Malley: I just wanted to set the stage.

Phil Synder: Yeah, yeah. Sure, we can continue this later. But yeah, I would definitely get out of there, 9:00 hmm, before dark.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I'm just around... I'm literally a block over, but I really don't want to stay later than 9:00.

Phil Synder: Yeah, yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: I hope you're armed.

Dani O'Malley: I do have something, but it is not really what I'd like to have.

Phil Synder: Not as big as the gun as you want.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. So the second letter you sent out on July 11th, 2016, was that disseminated the same way through the mail?

Phil Synder:

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Yeah, my letters are all... they're all pretty much mail. Except for the Malachi experiment, I think.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. If you have that, that would be good to send on over too.

Phil Synder: Send what over?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, send it over to us if you have the email. I just want to get all the documents.

Phil Synder: Oh, the Malachi thing?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, if you have it.

Phil Synder: Okay, okay. So I got the Boz, the Hugh Taylor excommunication, and whatever I've got on Malachi. I'll have to like into that.

Dani O'Malley: It's probably the same stuff, but I just would like to see it.

Phil Synder: Okay.

Dani O'Malley: Beside Gabriel, did anyone else respond to your letters?

Phil Synder: Very, very rarely did anybody respond. That's very unusual. I do remember one lady laying into me.

Virginia something-or-other wrote a really nasty letter to me once.

Dani O'Malley: Hmm. Phil Synder: But yeah, I would say it's very rare for people to respond. They general just ignore me, which I really hate when people ignore me.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, it looks like Jim Hala was the chair of the special commission.

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Phil Synder: Yeah, he was the leader of the three man team assigned to me, I believe. Yeah, that's how they worked.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. So the response of the church, what interests me is, and this is why I wanted that stuff with excommunication is because, "...we have not threatened to excommunicate, sue, or hurt this individual or any member of his family." If we do have something otherwise, then that would prove that this isn't true. So that's why I-Phil Synder: I'm sorry. I don't think I really just followed what you just said. Could you repeat that?

Dani O'Malley: Oh, yeah. So in this letter from 10th, after you sent that second letter, they sent a letter out to the congregation on July 20th. In the second paragraph down, they're like, "Please be assured that at no time did any elder of 10th threaten to excommunicate, sue, or hurt this individual or any member of his family."

Phil Synder: Oh, okay.

Dani O'Malley: If you have those documents from Hugh that talk about threatening that you'll be excommunicated if you keep this up or whatever, then that would prove that this isn't accurate, the letter from 10th isn't true, which is [inaudible 01:54:48].

Phil Synder: Oh, okay. I see what you're driving at there. Yeah, so the suing thing I can't prove. That was just a verbal thing, so I can't prove that one. But the excommunication thing, I think I can prove that one. I got documents on that one. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Yeah, I think that would be great.

Phil Synder: Yeah, okay. I get you. I get where you're going there. Okay.

Dani O'Malley: And at this point, were you meeting with Liam regularly?

Phil Synder: Yeah, we met many, many times on Sundays in between services. Yeah, so we met a lot there.

Dani O'Malley:

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In his office?

Phil Synder: What's that? Yeah, in his office. Right. So coming up here on the 10/23/16 thing, he's like, "Hey, can you come to my office for one of our little chats?" Kind of like a Judas thing there. It was like come to his office and they're like, "Hey, well..." Then they excommunicate me, give me no trespass notice, and have a police officer escort me and my family off the church. But the way he did it, the email inviting me to come to his office at that time, it was very, "Hey, let's meet for one of our meetings and have some coffee and, whatever, chat." But all the time he's laying a trap for me. I just thought it was kind of Judaslike of him.

Dani O'Malley: What is the "send of", it's C-O-N-T-U-M-A-C-Y? What is that? "Contumacy?"

Phil Synder: Oh, contumacy. Yeah, that's what they say when you're... Yeah, I think The Wartburg Watch did an article on that. It's just kind of their catchall, ecclesiastical terminology that they use.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: I'm typing it into my computer right now.

Dani O'Malley: Thanks. I'm not a Presbyterian girl, so I don't know all the language.

Phil Synder: Yeah, it's that ecclesiastical speak. "Stubborn refusal to obey or comply with authority, especially a court order or summons."

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah, so they summoned me to appear before the session, which is a court of the church or whatever.

So that's the definition, the ecclesiastical term. And I think The Wartburg Watch wrote a whole article about this. That's their catchall term for excommunicating people who are difficult and don't cooperate with the elders.

Dani O'Malley: Okay, I'm going to look it up.

Phil Synder:

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Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I do want to ask one more thing about that day on the 23rd. Now, I'm from Florida, and when we serve a trespass warning as a police officer, that person has to be on the property and we have to fill out a form and it says, "You are hereby warned if you come back, you will be arrested." And this is just from the church. Is that how it's done here?

Phil Synder: I don't know. So that may explain why they did it the way they did, I guess. But again, if that's the case, they didn't have to do it on a Sunday when my family was there. They could have done it-Dani O'Malley: No. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you there.

Phil Synder: My understanding is that they could have done it another way or they could have served me at my house or something. I don't know. But no, I don't really know. Yeah, I don't know.

Dani O'Malley: Did you get any documents from the Philly PD saying you were trespassed?

Phil Synder: I have the no tress notice is... You've seen that, right?

Dani O'Malley: That's just a letter. All I have is a letter that's signed by Liam and George.

Phil Synder: Yeah, I don't really know. Just whatever it says.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: But the thing that got me there was when he did this, he threatened to arrest me if I came within a thousand feet of the church.

Dani O'Malley: Is that what this was? I don't see a thousand feet on here.

Phil Synder: No, no, it's not there. They can't do that. They have to have a judge's court order to do that. But he told me that if I came within a thousand feet of the church, I was going to be arrested. So that was my deal.

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It's like I almost expected this. I was like, "Okay, you want to excommunicate me? You want to serve me with a no trespass notice, that's fine." But when he went too far is what really ticked me off is when he threatened to have me arrested if I came within a thousand feet of the church, and I was like, "You can't do that."

Dani O'Malley: In Liam's office.

Phil Synder: You can't. You have to have a court order, which is what they eventually went out and did. But at the time, he had no basis to be threatening to arrest me one inch off of the church property. He was saying like a thousand feet. So yeah. And that was kind my thinking, so this wasn't really that unexpected. I was almost, "That's fine. I'm fine with that. You want to excommunicate me, you want to do no trespass notice, that's fine. You have a right to do that, but don't threaten to arrest me within a thousand feet at the church. You don't own the public property."

Dani O'Malley: Where was your wife and kids at this point? Were they there?

Phil Synder: They were at the church.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: And so after I was served with this stuff, I was waiting downstairs. I was waiting. Liam's office is on the second floor and they were probably down in the catacombs or whatever. So my family was brought to me there by the back door of the church with the police officer there, and then we all left together. So yeah, that really ticked me off. I didn't...

Dani O'Malley: How old were your kids at the time?

Phil Synder: How old were they? Well, my daughter was born in 2003. My son was born in 2005. This is 2016. So 11 and 13? Is that right? Something like that.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Not cool. Not cool. I didn't appreciate that.

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Dani O'Malley: Yeah. They're probably like, "What is going on?" Okay, I wanted to jump back before I forget this. On your timeline, you're talking about 2016, 2/6/16, Liam's email. And you're talking about just the fear of how police kill innocent people all the time. And you said, "So Mr. Snyder is not being paranoid as suggested by Diane Langberg." What does that mean?

Phil Synder: Right. Well, I saw an email, or I saw something, a communication, from Diane Langberg where she suggested that she thought maybe I was... She had seen this email where I said, "He had a gunman ready to kill me if I gave him a chance, poison me, whatever." And she suggested I was paranoid or something like that.

Dani O'Malley: By just based on that email.

Phil Synder: Yeah. You want to see that email?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Who did you get that from?

Phil Synder: Let me make a note here. Diane Langberg. Well, what happened was... So the 2019 injunction hearings, my lawyer, Brian Doyle, was requesting discovery from Mr. Sam's office, and they kept blowing him off, blowing off, and finally they're like, "We're just going to send him some random garbage to shut him up." And one of the random garbage emails happened to be... But there was some pretty interesting stuff in there.

That's where I saw that Diane Langberg said I was paranoid and that their lawyer had advised them not to do what they did here with having my wife and kids involved here, not to do it that way. Their own lawyer said not to do that and they did it anyway. So yeah. So there were some interesting random stuff that Gary Sam's office sent over to my lawyer, Brian Doyle, just to shut him up. So there was a bunch of junk there that they sent over, and one of them was that one. Yeah, I probably have that somewhere, but that's going to take me some time to find that one. It's buried somewhere.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Just because you mentioned it in there, I just want to. Diane used to be on [inaudible 02:04:42]?

Phil Synder: Yeah, so I think that's where that came from, was kind of their junk discovery stuff. They just sent over this random stuff.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Just based on that one email that I probably read to you.

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Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right. I don't know how much she saw or how much she read of what you provided. Okay. Let's see. So then we have Gabriel's letters. Okay, so in January of 2017, your lawyer [inaudible 02:05:22] it wasn't good, filed a defamation lawsuit against Liam, George, and the church.

Phil Synder: Right. Yep. Dani O'Malley: Okay. And that goes on basically until 2018, correct? That sound right?

Phil Synder: The lawsuit?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. There's injunctions in there. It's all underneath the same...

Phil Synder: Yeah, I think the law... I don't remember when the trial was at. Oh, was it? The trial, I think, was held in March of... was it 2017 or 2018?

Dani O'Malley: Okay. I just kind of want to have... Because when I looked up in just the Philly court cases, I only saw two. The one of you v. them.

Phil Synder: Right. I sued them from defamation and then they sued me for defamation. But yeah, no, so my defamation trial against the church was March of 2019, right?

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah, right. It was in 2019. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder:

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So yeah, that's when my trial was. And then, yeah, so that's when they were like, "Oh, he lost the trial.

He's super upset. Now he's a threat." And so in July of 2019, that's when they filed their defamation lawsuit and injunction against me. And part of their reasoning was... Yeah, well, Douglas Baker went to a class and the profile of a mass shooter is there's some kind of great loss. And my great loss was that I lost the defamation trial, whatever.

So my purpose of the defamation trial was like, "Okay, the church says one thing, Bill says another thing.

The congregation doesn't know what to make of it. Well, let's go to court and try to figure this out."

Well, I learned that the courts aren't very... You're certainly not guaranteed justice in the courts, and it really has nothing to do with truth or the reality or the facts. My lawyer's incompetent. They got a super lawyer at a mega law firm with a bunch of supporting excellent lawyers.

And they get up there and they got a deep bench of liars and I'm one guy. And plus, statistically speaking, 90% of defamation trials you're going to lose anyway. But it doesn't matter because that's not the point. The only thing I got out of that defamation trial... What did I get out of it? I got a permanent public record of the rape, false imprisonment. That's all I got.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I heard you say that in one of the bodycam footages, someone had asked you how the trial went and you had said not well, but that one thing got entered into the record.

Phil Synder: That made it worth... Well, and also... I take that back. Very importantly, we got the injunction transcript from 10/10/17, right?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: So we had testimony about the naked beatings. Now that's a permanent public record. And what else did Liam Gallagher do in 10/10/17? He admitted that they lied to the congregation regarding the naked beatings and the whole Paul Jones thing. So twice now I have in writing them confessing that they lied.

The letter, they said, "Oh, it's not a horrible slander and utterly false." What is that? They're admitting they lied. And then in 10/10/17, Liam Gallagher admits that they lied to the congregation about the whole Paul Jones naked beating thing. And another important thing about 10/10/17 is I proved that they lied in the injunction. They said I was threatening and harassing people, right?

Dani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: And I had a body camera that proved that they lied. They lied, they committed perjury. So that's another thing with this 2019 injunction lawsuit. What do I get out of that? I got them falsely testifying, and I got them to commit perjury again. And I got evidence that proves, regardless of what the judge says. She doesn't know what she's talking about.

Dani O'Malley:

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Yeah, wasn't that-Phil Synder: She doesn't know what she's talking about and she doesn't care. But the evidence, ask Erik Burnetti, who has legal training and has looked at all the evidence, it's very clear that they committed perjury again. So I win by losing. It's kind of like Jesus Christ. Oh, they crucified him. He lost. Well, no, actually he won. So anyway, things don't always... So to me, what the courts are good for is generating documents like this rape, false imprisonment testimony that's now a permanent public record. And you may or may not get justice, but you're going to get records.

Dani O'Malley: Right? I think this is a good place to stop before I jump in to more of the court stuff. So I'm going to be out of town next week, Phil, but I'll be back after the 22nd. If you would-Phil Synder: Yeah, any Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday should work.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. At this time? At 6:00?

Phil Synder: Yeah, 6:00 or even earlier. I'm normally home earlier, but once again, the owners at the beach, so I'm running the business by myself this week again. It's amazing how he lets a mentally ill, delusional person run his business for him when he goes on vacation, but anyway. I'm normally home earlier. But yeah, we definitely-Dani O'Malley: Yeah, we can do earlier.

Phil Synder: If earlier would be better for you, I'm normally home by 5:00. So you want to say 5:30, so you're not there in the dark in Philadelphia walking home.

Dani O'Malley: I can always work from home too. That's always a solution.

Phil Synder: Yeah, so it just happened that my boss was on vacation this week, so I had to stay later, but.

Dani O'Malley: Well, we appreciate your time so much.

Phil Synder:

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No, I appreciate. Yeah, believe me, it's nice to have someone to listen to your story other than Erik Burnetti.

Emily Petrie: Phil, question. With the 24th at 5:30, that's Monday. So would that work for you? And Danielle, would that work for you?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Emily Petrie: Okay.

Phil Synder: Let me just look at one thing.

Emily Petrie: Sure.

Phil Synder: One second. Well, I do have a jury summons on August 18th.

Emily Petrie: Okay.

Phil Synder: So I don't know if that would carry over into a Monday. You said 5:30. Yeah, the courts aren't going to be open that late anyway. Yeah. Okay, Monday the 24th at 5:30. I'll say yes.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah, if something comes up, I'll let you know, but I don't think so. That should work fine. Monday the 24th at 5:30, the same thing?

Emily Petrie: Yep. I'll send you a different phone number, likely in a different meeting and passcode.

Phil Synder: Yeah, you'll email? Fortunately, I checked my email tonight because I was pulling up my computers so I could look up stuff and I saw your email. But next time I'll be aware and I'll know that ahead of time. But anyway. So yeah, it was a good thing I checked my email tonight. I guess you could have called me here.

You have my phone number.

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Emily Petrie: Yeah.

Phil Synder: But anyway. Yeah. So yeah, we'll do it again the 24th at 5:30. And thank you for your time and thank you for listening.

Dani O'Malley: No problem. Looking forward to talking to you again.

Phil Synder: Okay. And I'll get on that. I got the Boz emails. Hugh Taylor excommunication stuff. The Malachi thing and the Diane Langberg thing. The four things I'm going to...

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, you got some homework.

Phil Synder: I got some homework that I'm going to work on. Yep. Okay.

Emily Petrie: Thank you so much.

Phil Synder: All right, good talking to you. Thank you.

Emily Petrie: Bye. Dani O'Malley: Bye. Emily Petrie: Bye. Phil Synder: Okay, bye. Be safe.

Dani O'Malley: I will.

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GRACE: Tenth Presbyterian Church Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 10.08.2023 Phil Synder Interview (2) Dani O'Malley: All right. All right, so, where I think we left off based on my notes. The last document that I have that we didn't go over was from August 15th, '2017. It was the church's lawyer sent your lawyer, Mr. Allen, basically a cease and desist or they'll sue you.

Phil Synder: Right.

Dani O'Malley: We did review what you had sent over that we asked, so thank you for that. Is there anything that you wanted to chat about before we got into this?

Phil Synder: I guess the one thing I had to say was if you could let me know when your report is done so that I can have my lawyers get me a copy.

Dani O'Malley: Sure.

Phil Synder: I'd appreciate it.

Dani O'Malley: A lot of the times, well, let me backtrack that. Let me verify that I can do that. Right. And Emily, we can ask. I still don't know who's getting a copy and who's not.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, I'm not asking for a copy. You said you couldn't give me a copy. I would like a copy, but what I'm asking you to do is to tell me when the report is finished so that I can tell my lawyers to get a copy through the discovery process.

Dani O'Malley: I'm pretty sure we can do that. Yeah. What do you think, Em? Phil Synder: Yeah. Yeah. Just tell me when it's done so I can get my lawyers working on getting me a copy.

Emily Petrie: Yeah. That shouldn't be a problem.

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Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Okay. Good.

Dani O'Malley: I'm writing myself a note and if you don't hear from us, please reach out because sometimes, everything just gets chaotic.

Phil Synder: Yeah, sure. Yeah. How far out? When should I reach out to you if I haven't heard from you?

Dani O'Malley: I would say in a month. Just to see and that, we could say, "Hey, no, we're still working," but...

Phil Synder: Okay. All right. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: I'm the trust but verify type, so have to go through all the information and figure out what we're going to do with what you've shared with us.

Phil Synder: Yeah. A lot of information. No lack of information there.

Dani O'Malley: Right. And some of this we can, especially the alleged rape is very important and how they handled it and going down from that, right? So tracking down people to talk about that. But if no one talk to us, we have the court documents too and the other documents.

Phil Synder: Right. And you have my blog with everything on there.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Yeah, we do, man. That's awesome. Okay. So I'm going to go, this is off your timeline that you've sent us. I said 8, 15, 17, but can we go to February 27th '17, say, the congregation is invited to a Special Presbyterian meeting to discuss the findings of their inquiry, the secret ecclesiastical trial into the handling of the naked beating scandal into discipline the Eldership Tenth. It was not held at Tenth. Do you know where it was held at?

Phil Synder: I don't recall off the top of my head. I might be able to crack it down. I believe it was in the church bulletins back when they were still putting the bulletins online until they figured out that I was getting a

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lot of my information from their bulletins and they stopped putting them online because I would find out about stuff like this that they didn't want me to know about.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right. We have talked about this with different people, but do you remember what the outcome was? What the punishment was?

Phil Synder: I believe Tenth was found guilty on multiple counts. Yeah. One of theDani O'Malley: So what do you do if you're found guilty?

Phil Synder: Not much. I think there was a Sunday service. Elvis got in front of the congregation and were like, "Yeah, we're not perfect. And so sorry about that," and whatever. I don't know. I don't know. But I think one of the victims requested the Ecclesiastical trial.

Dani O'Malley: I think it was Dr. Harding. Yeah.

Phil Synder: I don't know if it was him. There were three victims is my understanding. So I don't know who requested it, but my understanding is that one of the victims requested the trial and that the church was found guilty on multiple counts. I don't really know the specifics.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. I didn't say already, but thank you for joining us again. I really appreciate it. Okay.

Phil Synder: I appreciate it. I've been waiting for you for 10 years here.

Dani O'Malley: Yay, I'm here. Okay.

Phil Synder: You finally are here. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: All right. So this is in your trial versus Liam and different people at the church. Your attorney is Mr. Allen and theirs is Gary Sams. August 15th, I'm guessing you're handing out flyers. Oh, let's see. It says we have received a letter from your client that was sent to the congregation of Tenth making accusations of various violations and rules.

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Phil Synder: Right. Yeah. I think in my letter, I said something about a pastor acting inappropriate towards a female employee.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, okay. I see that. Yes, I have the letter right behind it.

Phil Synder: Yeah. And I was referring to John Canales. I was fishing for information about John Canales, but what I didn't know at the time is that Pat Canavan, they were in the midst of Pat Canavan sexually harassing a female employee. And so that's why they were really upset about my letter because it happened to coincide. It was coincidence. They coincided at the same time and they're similar. And so I think they were very upset about that.

I tend to do that. I'm talking about one thing and making them upset because I don't realize what's going on at the church. Just like with me, I didn't know about this Bruce Garner thing and I was out there protesting at Rittenhouse Square with my sign and they were getting really upset. Matter of fact, I had someone come up and threaten to sue me again and I'm like, "Get in line." Really? So I didn't even know it was about the Bruce Garner thing, but I'm sure me protesting out at Rittenhouse Square with my sign was not appreciated as well. But I didn't realize what else was going on. I don't know everything that's going on. I'm out of the loop nowadays. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. So what did your attorney say about this? Who says that unless we have your assurance that the client will not contact Tenth members, we have no choice but to seek an injunction. Such communications are entirely inappropriate while the litigation is pending, [inaudible 00:07:34] consider filing a separate action against your client for liable.

Phil Synder: I don't remember what my lawyer had to say about that. All I remember about then is he is completely incompetent. So I might have mentioned before in the defamation trial, he did zero discovery, for example, stuff like that. So yeah, I don't recall what his reaction was, but I know what my reaction is, is I told him, "You're not going to stop me."

Dani O'Malley: The letter that you mailed out, the one that says Pierce, a Tenth pastor has acted inappropriately toward a female employee. Do you know when that was sent out?

Phil Synder: When that occurred?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. When you mailed out the letters.

Phil Synder:

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Oh, when I mailed it? Yeah, it would've been about that time around... Unfortunately I didn't date my letters, butDani O'Malley: I'm going to say early August. Is that accurate?

Phil Synder: Actually, let's see. The timeline I gave you was actually a redacted timeline.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: So let me pull up my timeline. Let's see, where am I? Dani O'Malley: Sure.

Phil Synder: The date again.

Dani O'Malley: It's going to be August '2017. Just looking for when that third letter was mailed out.

Phil Synder: '2015?

Dani O'Malley: 2017.

Phil Synder: '2017?

Dani O'Malley: Mm-hmm.

Phil Synder: '2017.

Dani O'Malley: So it's probably August something.

Phil Synder:

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My note says 8/12/17. I sent out my letter, myDani O'Malley: Okay. Perfect.

Phil Synder: And also, by the way, that also says, that was my eighth letter to the congregation incident.

Dani O'Malley: That was your eighth? Okay. That's helpful.

Phil Synder: That was my eighth letter.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah, I probably sent out like 30 or so, total. Like I said, I spent thousands of dollars on stamps, many thousands.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. The paper itself.

Phil Synder: Yeah. It says I sent it out on the 8/12/17 is when it was sent out. So then they got the letter and they threatened to sue me right away.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right. So the next thing I have is that your concealed carry is renewed? 9/21?

Phil Synder: Right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it says it was renewed. They're good for five years, which means the initial one would've been 9/21/12.

Dani O'Malley: Sure. I'm trying to think of what the state of... I was a police officer in Florida and they called it a Baker Act. If you were held for 72 hours against your will to be observed for mental health purposes, if you're going to hurt yourself or others or take care of yourself, I know Pennsylvania has something like that.

How would they know if you were mentally ill?

Phil Synder: Right. So exactly my point. How does a person with a concealed weapons permit who's been investigated by law enforcement, they're not into giving mentally ill delusional people concealed carry

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permits. Right? They just don't do that. So that's my point of the permit, including that in there is... And I've had many investigations. I was a public school teacher, I was working with security. I've been fingerprinted, background checked so many times. And the church also did a background check on me too, because I wasDani O'Malley: Because you worked with kids?

Phil Synder: I was a Sunday school. Yeah. I worked with kids. Sunday, school, teacher, special needs, children's music ministry, deacon, singing in the choir, et cetera, et cetera. So it's disingenuous for them to say, I'm mentally ill, delusional and fit the profile of a mass shooter. That's just not... Like you pointed out, if that's true, then they're guilty of gross negligence and incompetence to allow me to work with children and do all the stuff I did. So it's just ridiculous and the whole thing's ridiculous or an injunction. Like an injunction is going to stop a mentally ill delusional person from doing what they're going to do. What's what drives me wiki. But anything that's illogical just drives me nuts. And that's nuts to think that an injunction was going to stop somebody like that.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Injections are just pieces of paper.

Phil Synder: Yeah. There's probably no record of an injunction ever stopping anybody like that. It's just not logical.

It's pointless.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right. So I'm looking at... Let's see. A hearing was held regarding the prelim injunction on 10/10/17.

Phil Synder: Yeah. That's a big one. Got a 60-page transcript out of that.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. I didn't print it out, but did you read it?

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Is there anything you want to share about it?

Phil Synder: Well, I made notes on it there. Liam Gallagher admitted to lying to the congregation and he talked about the naked beatings. Apparently, the charge would've been bodily harm or something, and he said it

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would be against his religion to sue me. Interesting. And also, he repeatedly committed perjury and I had evidence to prove he was lying at the time, but the judge wasn't interested in seeing my evidence.

Dani O'Malley: This has to do with him saying that you were threatening people when you were outside?

Phil Synder: Yeah, threatening and harassing people when I was passing out letters. And so this was one day and we showed the judge the 20-minute body camera footage, and obviously, I wasn't threatening harassing anybody. Obviously, I proved they were lying. And so it's just really interesting that the judge in her opinion, said that I was lying. That I intentionally tried to make them look bad by bringing up events that occurred before they were in their present position, which is a totally ignorant statement because Liam Gallagher's co-defendant, George McFarland has been an elder for 35 years at that point. So she doesn't know what she's talking about and she knows that they lied. She saw the body camera footage. So just reallyDani O'Malley: Was that the one from Easter? Easter Sunday?

Phil Synder: No, that's the '2019 injunction.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah. No, this was just one day. Yeah, just dealt with the one day, which was whatever that day was, 9/10/17 was the date of that body camera footage. It's easier than another one because it's just one day and it's just 20 minutes. So it's really easy to do. And of course, and then they used that against me in the defamation trial. Oh, the judge, he admitted he lied, and they told the congregation I did that. And it's really caused me... And by the way, I've been shunned by the abuse community too. Only Eric Benetti stands by me. I don't know if it's because this judge said I lied because once you lie, you're toast.

So I don't know if that's the reason why or if there's something else going on, but I've been shunned by the abuse community. Usually if you've an abuse, at least you have the abuse community to come around you and say, "Oh, that's terrible. We're with you." No. I got Eric Benetti and that's it. Because the same thing happened to him. Right? Because in his situation, the Episcopal priest, Bob Malm, he committed perjury. He got a protective order against Eric Benetti saying he was a domestic terrorist. So he's been through the exact same thing. So he understands. And he... Whatever that word is. He has empathy for me. I can't say it because he's been through the same thing. But anyway, yeah. So that's caused me problems ever since she said that.

And I tried to appeal it and they're like, "Well, but the decision was in your favor." And I was like, "Well, it doesn't really feel like it's in my favor when she says I lied." She really creates a lot of problems for me in the future. And then I complained to the judicial conduct board and that didn't go anywhere. But anyway. So in the meantime, probably any judge that I ever come against in that court of common, please in the future, including like Paula Patrick and Marlene Lachman, they know that I had issues with

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the first judge, and plus, everybody knows that Philadelphia is historically a corrupt city. So anyway, so I just don't know what caused the judge... Makes me wonder what caused her to say that. Was she bribed or what? Because it doesn't make any... Again, anything that's not logical to me, I have difficulty with, and her statements, I don't understand why she would even say something like that in her opinion.

Dani O'Malley: Right. I'm looking at it right now.

Phil Synder: Doesn't make sense. The only thing that makes sense to me is that she was bribed to say that or something. I don't know. Or yeah, I don't know.

Dani O'Malley: Sometimes people, not that that's the case, but sometimes, people will just side with the pastor.

Phil Synder: Well, yeah. Well, yeah. You're at a total disadvantage, right? He is Dr. Liam Gallagher, senior minister of his church, and you're Phil nobody. So they automatically believe they're telling the truth, which again, it's like really, with everything that's been going on, you're still going to side with the Ecclesiastical people still, after all this Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist and now the PCA. That doesn't seem logical to me either that. It does and it doesn't. But yeah, that's what happens. They just automatically side with them, especially in the defamation trial. They have a deep bench of liars, just one after another coming up. They're lying, lying, lying, and you're by yourself. And so, they win.

Dani O'Malley: September 10th '2017, was that the first time that you handed out letters?

Phil Synder: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because originally, going back to '2016, 10/2016 I believe, was when I was excommunicated and had the no trespass notice, and he threatened to harass me within a thousand feet of the church. And I was like, "You can't do that. I can't believe you can do that." And I went around asking everybody for help or advice and nobody would help me with that. But anyway, yeah, when they threatened to sue me again after that letter, I said, "That's it. I'm just going to go down there and see what happens." So I took a train that day because I didn't know if I was coming back. I didn't know, well, am I going to get arrested and thrown in jail and have the key thrown away? I don't know. But this is AmericaDani O'Malley: Have you always had the same sign?

Phil Synder: Yeah. I handed out letters on 9/10/17, but as far as the actual sign goes, yeah, it's the same sign.

Although after they knocked me off of being in front of the church sidewalk, I was standing out in front of the church, so I didn't feel the need to do this. But now that I'm in Rittenhouse square, I actually have

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two signs and all the other sign says is tenthpresbyterianchurch.com. So people know what in the world I'm talking about.

Dani O'Malley: Sure, yeah.

Phil Synder: Because I'm not standing next to a church now, so they don't really... Whatever. So the only thing I've added, I have a second sign that I turn it around, I guess somebody said there are YouTube videos of me or something doing this. And my sign, by the way, is on a pruning pole. It's like 12 feet tall. So yeah. So that's the sign.

Dani O'Malley: All the times that you've handed out letters, have you worn a body cam?

Phil Synder: Oh, yeah, no. Always, yeah. Always, always, always. Because I talked to somebody about this. Again, I was asking everybody I could think of and somebody warned me. They were like, "Oh yeah, this is what they're going to do." So I was like, "Okay, well I better. I'm going to wear a body camera then."

Dani O'Malley: Do you remember who it was that warned you? Was it someone from Tenth?

Phil Synder: Okay. All right, let's go to my un-redacted timeline. Pull up here. What was that? Talk to the ACLU. They wouldn't help me. I can't remember the guy's name, lawyer.

Dani O'Malley: Was he someone from Tenth or was it somebody from outside?

Phil Synder: No, no. It was just some civil rights attorney I found online.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: But I'm not seeing it right now, but his name was Riley or something. I probably have it in here.

Dani O'Malley: I don't need it. I just wanted to know if it was someone within Tenth that warned you or...

Phil Synder:

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No, no, no. It wasn't. Like I said, I was reaching out to all kinds of people like David Rudovsky, the famous Penn State professor, and especially civil rights. I've reached out to him and just to everyone, trying to get some advice or somebody to help me, and one was really... To help me.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: All right. So the injunction was denied, but the information wasn't correct in there. So you attempted to appeal it. And I see that document from, I think it's January '2018. Let's see. No, what is the date? Sorry.

January 10th, '2018. Because it's in your favor, they wouldn't change it?

Phil Synder: Yeah. And they wouldn't even hear the case. They quashed it. They just said, "Well, the ruling was in your favor, so you can't appeal it."

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. You did mention. You might have it on here. Appeal denied. Okay. All right. Then we have November '2017, Bruce McDowell leaves Tenth, due to the cloud surrounding him for the alleged rape, false imprisonment accusations. Is that what was told, or is that under the surface, that's what people were saying.

Phil Synder: I just saw in the bulletin that he left Tenth and so that's my take is he was leaving because... Well, as matter of fact, I think he even said something to me one time, "I can't really function under these conditions when there's this rape thing hanging over me," whatever. I think I even talked to him personally once and he said, "I can't really function under these conditions."

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Just writing it down. All right. Let's see. January 7th, elders read a statement to the congregation at a Congress meeting regarding the firing of elder administrator Pat Canavan for sexual harassment. Did they call it sexual harassment or did they call it something else? Do you know?

Phil Synder: I believe yeah, it was sexual harassment. I actually spoke to Pat Canavan personally about this. I went to his house, when I subpoenaed him for the defamation trial, I asked him about it. He said, "Yeah, whatever." To me, that's sexual harassment. He said like a dirty joke he shouldn't have said or something, I don't know. But I got to give him credit though a little bit here because I don't think he...

My understanding is that he didn't try to hide it or lie about it. He said, "Oh yeah, I said that, that was stupid," whatever. So I'm going to give him a little credit there.

And by the way, I saw him last night. Yeah, I saw him last night at church. He said hello to me. So funny.

And I don't hate the guy. We all make mistakes. He did something stupid. He paid a price. He didn't try

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to lie about it though. That's the thing. So that's where I have a problem with people is when they try to lie about it and cover it up and then it's a problem. But if you do what he did, okay, he did something stupid. He didn't lie about it. He told the truth, he paid the consequences. So I'm fine with him saying hi to me at church. I don't hate him. I've known him for years. I think he's a nice guy. I like him. And we all make mistakes. So that's my take on Canavan.

Dani O'Malley: Got you. Thanks. Let's see, May '2018, Douglas Baker begins employment at Tenth as church administrator. Is there something specific as to why that's listed?

Phil Synder: Well, he testified against meDani O'Malley: Oh, that's right.

Phil Synder: In '2019 injunction hearing. And he just was lying through his teeth. And I'm like, "I don't know you. I've never even spoken to you."

Dani O'Malley: That's right.

Phil Synder: I still have never spoken to him. I don't know the guy. And I guess his life wasn't very pleasant as church administrator with everybody coming up complaining to him all the time about me. And at the time he testified against me, he wasn't even employed by the church anymore. And interesting enough, he went to go work for Karen University, which is where the naked beatings happened.

Dani O'Malley: That's right.

Phil Synder: So it makes me wonder a little bit like, okay, was he rewarded for testifying against me about the naked beatings? Because Karen University probably would like to shut me up as well. They don't want to hear about this stuff anymore. Yeah. So, anyway, there you have it.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, it's interesting for sure.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley:

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Now I remember.

Phil Synder: It's quite a coincidence. It's quite a coincidence. Yeah. So yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Let's see. Then the next thing, on June 22nd '2018, the Tenth lawyer sent a letter threatening to sue you and file injunction if you don't stop communication with the congregation. I guess you'd sent more letters?

Phil Synder: Yeah. I must have sent another letter they didn't like. Yeah. And the juxtaposition there with 623, the conference given by Diane Langberg, The Church is a Refuge, so at the same time, they're holding the conference on The Church is a Refuge with Diane Langberg, and they're threatening me.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Okay, I see. I have the letter right here. Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Dear Christian, the Bible sets high standards for elders. You sent these to the elders probably? Bible sets high standards for elders and clearly states that elders would be men above reproach. Now, considering the following regarding to Liam. Then it goes through six points.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Do you have a date for that or if it was sent to everybody in the church?

Phil Synder: The date I sent it out?

Dani O'Malley: Or you wrote it.

Phil Synder: Okay. Usually, just whatever day should be [inaudible 00:30:10]. Okay. Yeah, I'm looking at 6/18/18.

When I sent out the letters, "Dear Tenth faithful and Dear Elect." Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, so there's two different ones they're using?

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Phil Synder: Oh, actually, well, there were four things. Letter titled, Dear Tenth faithful, Dear Elect, were sent. And also article by Barbara Roberts, Christians Are Jumping on the Bandwagon and two articles by Jeff Crippen, Watch Out For People Who Are Running to The Head of The Table and A Sure Sign of Church's Claim To Be A Friend of Abuse Victims Is False. So it's all about the conference coming up shortly, letting them know that they're jumping on the bandwagon and virtue signaling. So yeah. So that's what was going on there.

Dani O'Malley: Was this sent to your list that you had or anybody specific?

Phil Synder: I'm sorry, what's that?

Dani O'Malley: Were these just mailed to your list that you had at the time?

Phil Synder: Oh yeah, just my list of people from the congregation.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah. My list from the directory. I printed up the directory andDani O'Malley: That's right.

Phil Synder: Generally, I think you asked me the first time I sent out a letter. I sent way more letters the first time, and I think it might've been as many as a thousand people because it was individuals and everything. But then I was like, that's a lot of work. So by then, I was just sending it out to families. So I'd get four people a pop. More worthwhile than just a single person. Scans are expensive, copying's expensive. And I'm handwriting everything.

Dani O'Malley: Oh, yeah.

Phil Synder: So now I'm down to probably less than 200 nowadays. Anyway.

Dani O'Malley: It said here that you tried to call Diane Langberg?

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Phil Synder: Yeah, no, I called her and I talked to her a little bit and just tried to... I don't recall specifically what I said to her, but just specifically, I think maybe I was telling her what was going on with me and trying to let her know that she's being used or whatever and whatever. But at that time, I don't know if she still is, but I think she was under Liam Gallagher's spell there, thinking he was a great, wonderful person. I don't know if she still does or not, and I can't blame her because I was too, for many years. It took me many, many years to see through this guy. He's good. Very good at what he does.

Dani O'Malley: All right. You talk about Dr. Jerry McFarland resigned.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, yeah, he left. I think he'd had enough of what was going on. So I don't think it was a case of passing the trashes with so many of these guys. John Canales, Marine Clark, Bruce McDowell, Paul Jones, that's all passing the trash stuff. But I don't think he was trash. I think he just was a good guy who had had enough.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. The next thing I have, and something from the church's attorney again.

Phil Synder: Yeah, 11/25/18.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: That's a big one. That's a big one. So yeah, I think they made a motion to dismiss or something like that at, that point. And I was not happy about that. And I was letting them know if they were successful in throwing my lawsuit out, it wasn't going to be over. It was like firing a warning shot across the bow. If you think it's going to be over when this trial's over, you can forget it.

Yeah. So it's interesting because at the injunction hearing in June '2019 or whatever, they were saying, "Well, after he lost the defamation trial, that's one of the, fits the profile of a mass shooter. There's a great loss and all this stuff." And so that's why the threat, and that's why we need the injunction. Well, the very first time, this is the very first time I showed up with a sign, and you can see they're already hitting me with every threat they can think of, the very first time. There was no... So it belies their, oh, there was a change of behavior, and he was aggressive all of a sudden. So we had to react. It's like, no, you just didn't like my sign here because this is the first time I appeared with my sign and you're going full throttle on me. So there was no...

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder:

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Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: It says the elders responded by threatening to have you arrested. Is this what they said to you in person, or is this based on the attorney's letter?

Phil Synder: Yeah. No, yeah, just the attorney's letter.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Matter of fact, I think they complained about me communicating with the elders. I would sent some letters to the congregation, including elders, and their lawyer complained and said, "You're not supposed to be communicating with church officers because you're in the middle of a lawsuit." And I said, "Oh, okay. Oops, sorry about that." So, yeah. So no, there was no direct communication with elders. Just their lawyer's letter there threatening to arrest me.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I have it. Your client's not to appear on site. He'll be arrested if he does this again. And they've authorized our client, the church, has authorized us to file for an emergency injunction if you don't stop.

Okay. All right. So then you meet Dee Parsons with the Wartburg Watch and she publish an article.

Phil Synder: Yeah. What happened there was Wheaton College had a conference, it was hosting a conference on sexual abuse or something. And so I emailed these people, I said, "Really? You guys know that Phil Ryken was the guy who covered up the Naked beatings initially? You know that. So why are you not saying anything about this sexual abuse conference happening at Wheaton?" So that's how my initial contact with whatever, Dee Parsons. YeahDani O'Malley: I think that's what her name was.

Phil Synder: Yeah, Dee Parsons with the Wartburg Watch. And then she saw, I had a GoFundMe up at that point, and she saw my body camera footage proving that they were lying, whatever. So I guess, yeah, so she went with that and she did her story on me, which was nice. Yeah.

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Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Did you have any response from anybody at the church from that article?

Phil Synder: Yeah. The comments, of course, Susan Elzey put her 2 cents in and attacked me. She's a member. She didn't say her name, but she was just a member from Tenth, rebutting whatever else was going on in the article. She was the voice of Tenth on that story there. Yeah. So she was just being herself, what can I say?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. All right. Was there any other posts on there that you know or anyone contacted you after that was on that you remember?

Phil Synder: No. I don't think anybody contacted. Actually, wait, wait. That's how Eric Benetti and I hooked up because he saw my story and he is like, "Hey, somebody else's been through exactly what I've been through." And so he's been very supportive ever since and been true, loyal friend ever since then. So yeah, that's how Eric and I connected. But Dee Parsons since, she's shunned me since then.

Dani O'Malley: She shunned you?

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, after the defamation trial, whatever happened with the defamation trial. Again, I don't know if it was because the judge said I lied, or people from the... Because defamation trial contacted her and said something about me. Yeah, their lawyer made me look bad. For sure, I was like a punching bag up on the witness stand for a day and a half. And my lawyer didn't tell me to look at the... I didn't know I was supposed to look at the jury, and he got all these people lying and the judge says, I lied and my lawyer's incompetent. So I'm just a punching bag for these people. For Gary Sams, you can imagine, in life and in court, he was even mistreating his own support lawyer. I remember my lawyer commented on that, how he was being abusive towards his own support lawyer. I forget the guy's name, but I felt sorry for him. But yeah. He's something else that Gary Sams.

Although interestingly enough though, apparently my current lawyer and he, seemed to be getting along fine these days, even though initially, he tried to intimidate and bully her into not representing me. But now, I don't know, maybe they're happy because they're both making a lot of money. I don't know. I don't know. But somehow, they seem to be having a pretty good relationship now. I don't know.

It's all very interesting.

Dani O'Malley: So the next thing we have is the trial, which is in March of '2019. And that's the one that you lost. You didn't do a great job explaining everything that happens here. Is there anything that's not in this timeline section regarding the defamation trial, that you want us to know?

Phil Synder:

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I don't know if I mentioned, one other thing I might mention, which I don't think I listed here, was that my lawyer told me he didn't have time to do any subpoenas, that if I wanted to subpoena any witnesses, that I have to do it myself.

Dani O'Malley: What?

Phil Synder: So I had to take a day off of work and go driving around subpoenaing people. So just another...

Otherwise, I would've had no witnesses or anything. But I got the rape, false imprisonment, transcripts.

So that made it all worthwhile. It's now a permanent public record, which makes things easier for people like you when you come along.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, it does.

Phil Synder: You can just read the transcript instead of trying to track people down, and hopefully, they'll remember things from long ago.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. What they said during, they swore to tell the truth. So it's part of the court record and you can read it.

Phil Synder: Right. Yeah. I don't know if maybe I mentioned that or not, but yeah. So to me, the courts, it's rush roulette whether... I certainly haven't found the case for them to be a place where you find justice and truth and where truth and evidence and reality occur. But they are very good at generating documents, so they're very reliable for that. That's the one thing you can count on with the courts is for them to generate documents, so then you can use those later for people like you or for going to the court of public opinion, or I think I wrote that all in here.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, you did.

Phil Synder: So anyway, that's my take on the courts. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. So that's in March, and then turnaround in July, the church is going to sue you, correct? Does that sound right?

Phil Synder:

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Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think they filed a defamation lawsuit against me for the purpose of, they had to do that in order to get an injunction against me. They wanted me off their sidewalk. So that was their way of doing that. So they haven't done anything further with as far as the defamation lawsuit, they're notDani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: And I don't think they plan on it because they don't want to be exposed. They don't want the exposure, I think. So I'd be like, "Yeah, bring it on. Let's have another trial." And the more you're in courts, the more things get exposed. And they don't like that. But they did manage to get me off the sidewalk. Yeah. But I just talked to my lawyer last week and I was asking her look for the Diane Langberg email.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Phil Synder: Anyway, she said, yeah, that they were [inaudible 00:45:18] because this is on transcript. Anyway, she said she thought they were very sorry that they ever tangled with me.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. So in this section, they were trying to obtain an injunction against you saying you were mentally ill, delusional and fit the profile of the mass shooter. How were they saying you were mentally ill?

Where were they getting that from?

Phil Synder: Well, they pulled up that email I sent where I said about, you had a gunman ready to kill me if they gave me a chance. And by the way, I didn't take communion because you were going to poison me or whatever. So I guess that's where they got that from. And of courseDani O'Malley: One email?

Phil Synder: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It was like one email. And I'm not threatening them in that email. Right? I'm saying I'm feeling threatened from them. And of course, the judge didn't see Liam's email to me saying that there was an armed police officer who was ready to act. And in subsequent writing she said, "Oh, I thought the church had hired an imaginary hitman or something. I'm just delusional," whatever. But yeah. And also, even back then, the email was like four years ago. And this Douglas Baker, he went to some active shooter training and oh, I just fit all this profile on mass shooter, and there was a spike in my online activity. Well, I'm talking to you on a phone here. What online? If you look on online, do you see me on Twitter or Facebook?

Dani O'Malley: And you didn't have your blog then?

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Phil Synder: No, I didn't. I have the receipt, my blog was after the injunction and in reaction to it. So yeah, it was just totally... And by the way, a neighbor helped me set up my blog. If I want to update anything, I got to have them hold my hand and help me figure it out. You know how technical I am. So yeah, it was just totally ridiculous, their reasoning. Whatever.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Let's see. We could jump down to January 30th '2020. You had injunction hearing, the second one.

The first half. And then you ran out of time. I saw that. So you had to do the second one two weeks later or a week later.

Phil Synder: Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: So they granted it?

Phil Synder: Yeah, they just do what they always do. They just get up there and lie. And once again, the judge isn't interested in seeing my evidence. I told her I was wearing a body camera the whole time, and I had it there with me on flash drives ready to give to her. And my lawyers didn't want to show it though. I told them to show it. And they were like, "No, we don't want to show it." They did show that little clip of Susan Elzey, which you saw, but apparently, my lawyers were like, "Hey, we think we caught Susan Elzey lying." And one comment about that is, I got to say, it was just really bone chilling when my body camera footage of her lying was produced, and she did not flinch at all. She didn't break into a sweat. She was just as cool as a cucumber. I was like, "Oh my goodness, this person has no soul, no conscience whatsoever." She is just something else. Unbelievable. It's scary. These people, they just have no conscience. It's unbelievable.

Dani O'Malley: So a question about that. They said that you're harassing people besides Susan Elzey, did they have any names to put to this? Did they show evidence of online activity?

Phil Synder: No. No. There was zero. They had zilch. There was absolutely no evidence whatsoever. They just got up there and lied through their teeth. And that's not evidence, because you have to have two witnesses testifying about the same thing to be evidence. And Liam Gallagher testified that an elderly AfricanAmerican woman said that. I accosted her.

Dani O'Malley: So where is she? That's hearsay.

Phil Synder: That's hearsay. That's not evidence. Exactly. And yeah, they had zero, zilch, no evidence whatsoever. I guess the only thing you might call evidence was that email I sent from four years ago. I guess that could

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be considered evidence, but other than that, they were just all lying through their teeth about not even the same things. So you have to have two witnesses testifying about the same thing. They weren't testifying about the same things. And then you had Susan Elzey lying. And then we did show the judge that little clip of body camera footage. And again, so it comes back to, okay, the judge, Paula Patrick knew what had happened with Judge Abbe Fletman, how I'd filed an appeal. And I filed a complaint with the judicial conduct board. And by the way, her son had had free music lessons at the church for two years. She should have recused herself. And when the hearings were over, she just walked out arm in arm with Liam Gallagher and his lawyer Gary Sams, like they were buddies. It's very corrupt. It just very...

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, it doesn't look good.

Phil Synder: In my view. In my view. It just, whatever.

Dani O'Malley: Interesting.

Phil Synder: But, yeah.

Dani O'Malley: What else was I going to ask you about that? Okay.

Phil Synder: And also, another thing we talked about last time is this was double jeopardy because they'd already lost in '2017. They tried the same thing in '2017, said I was threatening and harassing people, and I proved they lied then. And now, they're coming back saying two years later and saying, "Oh, I'm threatening and harassing people and I'm an imminent threat." It's like, yeah. It's doubleDani O'Malley: Did they make you get a psych evaluation?

Phil Synder: No. No, there's noDani O'Malley: You're an imminent threat, an active shooter. And they didn't make you get a psych profile or a psych eval?

Phil Synder: No. No psych eval, no nothing. No. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

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Dani O'Malley: Okay. All right.

Phil Synder: Nothing.

Dani O'Malley: So worried. Okay.

Phil Synder: Yeah. My lawyer even argued. I remember him writing that there's not a shred of evidence to support.

And that's what my lawyers were telling me. It's like, we don't need to show your body camera footage because they have to prove what they're saying and they can't prove it, so you don't need to worry about it. That's what they were telling me. And I was like, "Show the body camera footage. Show the body cameras." And they wouldn't do it. And yeah, there's just zero, zilch, nada. They have no evidence.

And I have all of the evidence. I don't have the burden of proof to prove it, but I still can prove it even though I don't have to. They can't, I can. They're supposed to prove it because they're making accusations.

Dani O'Malley: Right.

Phil Synder: I don't have to prove it, the defendant, but yet they can't prove it, but I can prove that they're lying. But again, so that's just the justice system for you. It doesn't have anything to do with facts or evidence or reality, it's just whatever. I don't know who's got the most money or the better lawyer or the better connections with the judges. I don't know. I don't know what to say there. But yeah.

Dani O'Malley: You appealed a couple times and you've got the distance, that you're allowed to be from the church reduced so far from 5,000 feet to 350 feet and you're appealing it again. And you haven't heard results from that yet?

Phil Synder: No, I haven't. It's not too optimistic, but honestly, I was telling my lawyer I don't even really care because my present location, I don't even know if I'd go back to the sidewalk in front of the church at this point because the Rittenhouse Square is great. I got a lot of foot traffic, I've got a lot of vehicle traffic. I got a street band there half the time, the Bean Street Band, you should look them up on YouTube. They're fantastic. They should be on Saturday Night Live or something. So I'm perfectly content with where I am to continue doing what I'm doing. Unfortunately, it's cost me $65,000 and my family.

Dani O'Malley: It's a lot.

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Phil Synder: That's the price you pay sometimes.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Are you divorced? Is your divorce final?

Phil Synder: Well, we're in the process of divorce. I believe I sent you a picture and some letters from the lawyers or whatever. Yeah. So I should say it cost me $65,000 in legal fees for the injunction, and the divorce is costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars. So that's on top of the $65,000 in legal fees. And that's why I'm getting a divorce is because of that. And so on top of that, I've got hundreds of thousands dollars for the divorce. So not to mention, whatever, losing all your friends.

Dani O'Malley: Everything else.

Phil Synder: Losing all your friends, being defamed, have your civil rights violated. Being recklessly endangered, basically. They basically ruined my life. So that's the price you pay sometimes.

Dani O'Malley: What do want to see happen?

Phil Synder: What do I want to see happen?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Well, I'd like to see your report made public is, now let me ask you this. So Tenth is paying for your investigation, is that correct?

Dani O'Malley: Yeah.

Phil Synder: Okay. But my take is that they're getting a lot of pressure externally from the church in general, the presbytery or the General Assembly or somebody because they've messed up so bad that they're making the whole denomination look bad at this point. AnywayDani O'Malley: Typically, what happens, Phil, is it's an independent investigation. Meaning we don't tell them who we're investigating. We do stick to what the scope is. If we find things outside of the scope when the

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investigation is done, we'd bring them up. You need to handle this. So that would be with the leaders or whoever is assigned to talk, right? Maybe it's a group of elders, a committee, whatever.

Phil Synder: Well, yeah, actually... Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: So typically, I don't know in this case, but most of the time, we recommend it to be made public or make it a way that people can access it. So sometimes, that looks like, hey, we put it public, we put it on our website, like Tates Creek Presbyterian did twice and they talked about it from the pulpit and all that stuff. Sometimes, they might have it to where you have to come and read it. Sometimes, they might publish a summary instead of in full, depending on what some of the... Some survivors don't want their story made known to everybody. They just want it for leadership. So sometimes, they throw it in the trash.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, yeah. Let me back up here. Actually, thinking about your original question. What do I want to see happen here? I think I've been pretty consistent from the beginning since '2014. They lied to the congregation. The elders lied to the congregation in '2014, you're done. You need to get out of leadership. And so the entire leadership needs to resign. And so actually, I've been consistent.

Consistently of said that because after my first letter, actually, I don't think I said anything. And they were like, "Well, what do you want us to do?" So ever since then I've been like, okay, well they lied.

They're not qualified to be elders anymore. And obviously, everything they've done to me, committing perjury, all these threats, whatever, on top of it. So all the leadership, and especially Liam Gallagher, he's just beyond the pale of evil people. He's like the most evil person I've ever met in my life. Unbelievable.

So yeah. So, I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing, and I'm not going to stop until they do what I told them to do in '2014. And even then I may not stop because now it's beyond the elders because every person in that congregation, I hold them accountable for what's happened to me. They are not blameless. Every person in that pew is responsible because they've allowed what has occurred to occur.

So yeah, this has been going on for 10 years and I'm just getting started. So I don't know what's going to happen with your report. I've enjoyed talking to you and hopefully something good will come with it.

Hopefully it'll be made public, but I realize that they're paying for you and they're in control of whatever, but they're going to get pressure to make it public, I'm sure. Eric Brunetti's not going to let this go either.

And that's just how we are.

Why would we let it go? Everybody says let it go and move on. So I haven't accomplished my goals and they have all this stuff that they've done to me has made me even more upset and it just ticks me off.

It's not going to stop me. It's like the Ukrainians. I have a similar situation to the Ukrainians. And every time the Russians fire a missile at an apartment building and kill a bunch of civilians, well, that just ticks them off. It's not going to make them stop doing they're... And they're going to continue to do what they do until you kill them. And I'm the same way. And I told them that in the beginning, unless you're going to excommunicate me or burn me at the stake, don't even bother because that's the only way to stop me. So this has been going on for 10 years and I'm just getting warmed up. My dad lived to be 94, and it's in my body camera footage. I told him, if you watch... I don't know if you...

Dani O'Malley: Yeah, I remember that one.

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Phil Synder: Yeah. I saidDani O'Malley: Even if I'm in a wheelchair, I'll be here.

Phil Synder: Yeah. Well, I said, "Why am I going to win? Why am I going to win? Because they're older than I am.

That's why." And in any unforeseen circumstances, I'm still going to be out there and they're going to be gone. I'm going to still keep going because I don't see any reason to stop and people say, "Move on."

Move on to what? You just destroyed my family. You ruined my life. I got nothing. Why would I stop?

This is all I have left is Tenth Presbyterian Church. That's all I have left in this life, is Tenth Presbyterian Church. So I don't plan on moving on or stopping because there's nothing else on this earth for me now.

Dani O'Malley: Yeah. Okay.

Phil Synder: That's where I am. Yeah.

Dani O'Malley: Okay. Emily, I just charged through. I didn't even leave room for you to ask any questions.

Phil Synder: By the way, my daughter's name is Emily.

Emily Petrie: Oh, yeah. It's a good name. Yeah, I don't have any, you covered everything really well. So, Phil, is there anything else you think we should know?

Phil Synder: Just really appreciate your time and appreciate you listening and looking at all the evidence. Appreciate that.

Emily Petrie: Yeah, and we appreciate you sharing and sending all the evidence and everything. I know you've put a lot of time into it, so we really appreciate that.

Phil Synder: It's my life. It's been my life for the last 10 years, so it's what I do. Yeah, so...

Dani O'Malley: Well, we appreciate you, Phil. Thank you. And if you think of anything else, feel free to reach out.

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Phil Synder: Okay, thanks. Yeah, just let me know when you finish that report. I appreciate it.

Dani O'Malley: Okay.

Emily Petrie: Okay.

Dani O'Malley: All right, have a good one.

Emily Petrie: Thanks, Phil.

Phil Synder: You too. Thanks.

Emily Petrie: Bye.

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