1
RISK MANAGEMENT FOR A PENSION FUND AFTER THE CRISIS: A CASE STUDY Presented by: William Clark Senior VP and Chief Investment Officer Federal Reserve Office of Employee Benefits
Global Interdependence Center - Italy Conference – April 2011
A little information about the Federal Reserve’s Retirement Plan 2
Total Assets: 7,536 million (02/28/11)
PBO Funded Status: 88% (12/31/10)
Domestic Equity: 45%
Int’l Developed Equity: 13%
Domestic Fixed Income Long Duration: 26%
Domestic Fixed Income Intermediate: 15%
EROA: 7.25% (arithmetic)
Participants: 43K
Contributions 2010: 580 m/n
Contributions 2011: 420 m/n (projected)
Historically a pension fund’s view of risk centered on the volatility of investment returns 3
Cumulative Returns in a Typical 60/40 Portfolio 180
160
140
120
100
80
60 Dec-2000
Dec-2001
Dec-2002
Dec-2003
Dec-2004
Dec-2005
Dec-2006
Dec-2007
Dec-2008
Dec-2009
Dec-2010
60/40 Asset Portfolio * *Beginning value set to equal beginning value of Towers Watson Pension Index shown on next page.
Overall portfolio returns for the typical plan are heavily influenced by public equity returns.
Now, plans are focusing more on the volatility of funded status (i.e. plan surplus) 4
Cumulative Returns on a Typical 60/40 Portfolio vs. Returns on Plan Surplus 200.00 180.00
160.00 140.00 120.00 100.00 80.00 60.00 40.00 Dec-2000
Dec-2001
Dec-2002
Dec-2003
Dec-2004
Dec-2005
Towers Watson Pension Index
Dec-2006
Dec-2007
Dec-2008
Dec-2009
Dec-2010
60/40 Portfolio
The funded status of the typical defined benefit plan is even more volatile because it is heavily influenced by both equity returns and long term interest rates used to discount the liabilities.
Why the volatility of plan surplus is the most appropriate risk measure for pension plans? 5
1. 2.
3. 4.
Drives plan funding costs over time Accounting changes are leading to greater balance sheet/income statement impact ď‚§ IFRS ď‚§ US GAAP Tightening regulatory environment focused on funded status Greater emphasis on pension plan funding by the rating agencies
How are pension plan sponsors managing funded status risk? II. Plans are derisking their Investment Portfolios
6
Pension Plans’ Equity Exposure by Country 80% 70%
74% 64%
60%
66%
61%
55%
49%
50%
65% 55% 41%
40%
38%
33%
37%
30% 20% 10%
0%
US Source: Towers Watson
UK 2000
NETHERLANDS 2005 2010
JAPAN
US plans have historically taken greater funded status risk (i.e. they have higher equity exposures) than comparable plans in other developed markets. Pension plans globally are reducing their exposure to “risky assets”.
How are pension plan sponsors managing funded status risk? 7
III. Diversifying into new asset classes 70% 60% 50% % of Portfolio
40% 30%
59%
56% 48% 38%
40%
37%
37% 32%
26%
20%
28% 20%
24% 24%
15% 16%
10% 0% Public Equity 05
Public Fixed Income 06
07
08
Other
09
Source: CIEBA
Corporate plans (particularly in the US) have increased their allocation to nontraditional asset classes in an attempt to maintain their expected returns while improving portfolio diversification
The economic realities of defined benefit pension costs, however, impact how far plans will/can go to “Derisk” 8
Percent of salary while active needed to fund projected benefit for 35 year old* new hire at the Federal Reserve for various realized investment returns
ANNUAL INVESTMENT RETURN
% OF SALARY NEEDED TO FUND PROJECTED PENSION BENEFITS
10%
3.08%
9%
4.13%
8%
5.56%
7%
7.53%
6%
10.24%
5%
14.01%
0%
74.70%
Typical assumed rate of return for pension plans
*ASSUMES STARTING SALARY OF $75,000, 4% ANNUAL SALARY GROWTH, AND EMPLOYEE RETIRES AT AGE 60.
The economic realities of defined benefit pension costs for the Federal Reserve’s Plan 9
Present value of 20 yrs of Pension Contributions for given future investment returns 6,000 5,000
$MM
4,000 3,000
2,000 1,000 0 4%
5%
6%
7%
8%
9%
10%
Future Investment Return * All other actuarial assumptions are consistent with the Plan’s 12/31/09 actuarial valuation.
Steps that the Federal Reserve has already taken to reduce plan surplus volatility 10
1.
Terminated active balanced account mandates that effectively outsourced asset allocation decisions
2.
Implemented an LDI strategy using TIPS to defease retired life liabilities under the Board benefit structure (about 8% of plan)
3.
Lowered the Plan’s public equity allocation from 65% to 55%; reduction came from the US equity portfolio
4.
Extended duration on approximately 50% of the remaining fixed income portfolio by shifting benchmarks from the Barclays Aggregate to the Barclays Long Gov’t / Credit
Even with these steps, however, this ten year surplus backtest using the current asset allocation shows the volatility of funded status during periods of market stress 11 120.00
100.00
80%
Line is cumulative return
60%
53.68%
40% 80.00
15.05% 5.40%
60.00
0.39%
73.2
20%
1.77% 0%
16.05%
-3.00% -20%
40.00 -27.07% Bar represents each year's
-40%
percentage return 20.00 -54.25% 0.00
-60% -80%
Annual Surplus Return as % of Plan Assets (RHS)
Cumulative Portfolio Surplus Return as % of Plan Assets (LHS)
Determining the initial strategic asset allocation – What is our desired asset allocation from traditional asset classes 12
EFFICIENT FRONTIER PLAN ASSET ALLOCATION 30 20 10
$ MM Projected Return on Plan surplus
0 POTENTIAL TO IMPROVE RISK/RETURN PROFILE OF THE PLAN; MAIN ACTIONS WOULD BE TO FURTHER EXTEND DURATION ON THE BOND PORTFOLIO AND/OR TO SHIFT MORE PUBLIC EQUITIES FROM US TO INTERNATIONAL
-10 -20 -30 -40 -50
CURRENT PORTFOLIO
-60 -70 0
200
400
600
800
1,000
1,200
1,400
$ MM Standard Deviation of Plan Surplus
The underlying data for this efficient frontier for each assumed portfolio and the current portfolio are presented on the following page.
Detailed metrics for portfolios on the Plan’s efficient frontier 13 Asset
Current Portfolio A
Portfolio B
Portfolio C
Portfolio D
Portfolio E
Portfolio F
Portfolio G
Portfolio H Portfolio I
Portfolio J
Wilshire - 5000 Composite Index %
37.87
0.00
1.49
5.34
9.20
13.05
16.91
20.77
24.62
28.48
0.00
MSCI - EAFE Index %
11.44
0.00
8.37
14.50
20.64
26.77
32.91
39.04
45.18
51.31
88.00
Total Public Equity %
49.31
0.00
9.86
19.84
29.84
39.84
49.82
59.81
69.80
79.79
88.00
Barclays Capital - U.S. Aggregate Index %
14.07
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
7.93
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
Barclays Capital Long Gov/Credit %
16.70
88.00
78.14
68.15
58.16
48.17
38.18
28.19
18.20
8.21
0.00
Total Fixed Income %
38.69
88.00
78.14
68.15
58.16
48.17
38.18
28.19
18.20
8.21
0.00
Citigroup Global Markets Pension Liability Index %
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
Annual Surplus Return $ mm
-52.56
-56.32
-38.57
-23.22
-10.22
0.47
8.89
15.09
19.12
21.06
18.84
Annual Surplus Risk $ mm
793.51
113.97
208.02
329.77
457.42
587.15
717.82
849.00
980.49
1,112.17
1,257.04
-0.07
-0.49
-0.19
-0.07
-0.02
0.00
0.01
0.02
0.02
0.02
0.01
Surplus VAR 95% Annual $ mm
1,305.32
187.48
342.19
542.47
752.46
965.86
1,180.81
1,396.61
1,612.90
1,829.52
2,067.83
PV of 20 years future contributions $ mm
3,709.93
4,199.53
3,994.23
3,787.46
3,598.12
3,408.79
3,177.67
2,945.66
2,725.95
2,507.73
2,334.71
Barclays Capital - U.S. Long TIPS Index %
Return/Risk
For each Portfolio, the charts below depict the range of projected Plan surplus using Monte Carlo simulations for five and ten years with planned annual contributions for 2011 and 2012 14
Notice: how the range of simulated surplus outcomes doesn’t widen until we reach the very “high risk� asset allocations. Ten Years
Plan surplus $000
Five Years
Each bar represents the range between the 10th and 90th percentiles of funded status for each assumed portfolio. The simulation also incorporates expected benefit payments over the projection period. The detailed results of these simulations are presented on the following page.
Another approach is to look at the various factors that drive surplus volatility. This factor analysis is based on ten year actual data (rather than the normative assumptions presented earlier) and shows the contribution to surplus volatility from four major factor groups. 15 Surplus Volatility Attribution
Surplus Volatility $MM
2,000 1,500 1,000
Other
500
Rates
Spreads Equity
0 -500 Current
A
B
C
D
E Portfolio
F
G
H
I
J
Current
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H
I
J
Equity
520
0
82
188
301
417
534
651
769
888
956
Rates
694
269
337
396
453
510
565
621
676
731
744
-118
93
61
26
-9
-41
-72
-103
-133
-163
-189
30
0
4
12
23
32
43
54
64
75
178
1,126
363
484
622
768
918
1,069
1,223
1,377
1,532
1,688
Spreads Other Total
We should also evaluate stress test results in order to assess the exposure of plan surplus to shocks from financial market factors 16
In order to calculate the hypothetical P&L that portfolios would sustain in scenarios where various aspects of the market environment may be shocked, we employ a similar methodology as is used in VAR models. These sensitivities are then aggregated to give a portfolio-level view of exposures to each risk factor Stress scenarios are defined as a set of shocks to these risk factors. By combining the factor exposures and shocks to each risk factor, we can derive the expected P&L from a given stress scenario
Stress Test Scenario
Historical Period
1. Great Recession
December 3, 2007 – March 9, 2009
2. Summer ’03 – Treasury Backup 3. Hypothetical Inflation
4. Hypothetical Deflation
5. Long Term Capital Management
June 13 – Jul 31, 2003
Description of event Starting date for this scenario is the official beginning of the latest recession in the US. The end date is the lowest point of S&P 500 in the recent decade. Treasury sell-off.
N/A
Short-term US inflation and nominal rates increase dramatically, mortgage spreads widen, S&P is unchanged. Shocks for the other factors in the risk model were derived using their historical correlations with the constrained factors.
N/A
Oil price is kept unchanged. The 10 year break even inflation rate drops 200 bps. The 10 year nominal rate drops to historical lows while short-term nominal rates are held constant. Agency mortgage rate spreads tighten.
Oct 2 – Oct 9, 1998
Credit & liquidity crisis stemming from the collapse of Long Term Capital Management. Simultaneous increase in treasury rates and credit spreads with significant jump in implied volatility.
Great Recession stress test results 17
December 2007 – March 2009 Surplus portfolio attribution Asset and liability attribution to surplus (bps)
Asset and liability attribution to surplus (bps)
December 2007 – March 2009 Asset and liability portfolio attribution
2,000 0 -2,000 -4,000 -6,000 -8,000 -10,000 Liability
A
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
2,000 0 -2,000 -4,000 -6,000
-8,000 -10,000 A
1
2
3
4
Equity
Spreads
Foreign Exchange
6
7
8
9
Portfolio
Portfolio Rates
5
10
Inflation FI Volatility
Rates
Equity
Spreads
Foreign Exchange
Inflation FI Volatility
Equity market performance was the reason that surplus fell significantly during this period. Liability values fell to a lesser extent as credit spread widening more than offset the impact of declining Treasury rates.
10
Hypothetical deflation stress test results 18
Hypothetical deflation Surplus portfolio attribution
1,500
500
1,000
0 -500
500 0 -500 -1,000 -1,500 -2,000 Liability
A
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
Asset and liability attribution to surplus (bps)
Asset and liability attribution to surplus (bps)
Hypothetical deflation Asset and liability portfolio attribution
-1,000 -1,500 -2,000 -2,500 -3,000 -3,500 A
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
Portfolio Portfolio Rates
Equity
Spreads
Foreign Exchange
Inflation
FI Volatility
Rates
Equity
Spreads
Foreign Exchange
Inflation
FI Volatility
Primary reasons that surplus is falling are that both Treasury interest rates and equities are falling.
9
10
Evaluating the potential benefits of new asset classes, hedging instruments and strategies 19 Goal is to potentially improve risk/return trade off by: - new asset classes - new instruments (derivatives) - new investment strategies - efficient frontier w/current asset classes
30 20 10
0 -10 Plan Surplus -20 Return $MM -30 -40 -50
-60 -70
0
200
400
600 Plan Surplus Risk $MM
800
1,000
1,200
1,400
How new hedging instruments could potentially improve the plan’s risk/return profile 20
Example: Interest Rate Swaps
Efficient Frontier with and without fixed receiver swaps (25% overlay) 120 100 80 60
40 20 0 -20 -40 -60 -80 0
200
400
600 with maximum 25% overlay
800
1,000
1,200
1,400
Current
By entering into fixed receiver swaps, the risk/return profile is improved as a result of better hedging of the Plan’s liabilities. Assumes a maximum hedge of 25% of plan liabilities. Swaps are modeled as a long fixed rate bond and short cash position. Does not incorporate impact from collateral posting for margin requirements.
This compares the historical performance of our current allocation versus an assumed portfolio with a maximum 25% swap overlay 21 140.00 120.00 99.1
100.00 80.00
73.2
60.00
40.00 20.00 0.00
Swap Overlay
Current Portfolio Surplus
The assumed portfolio modeled here is Portfolio F from the efficient frontier shown on the previous page. The surplus risk level of this portfolio is closest to the surplus risk level of the current portfolio.
This compares the factor response curves to changes in value of the pension liabilities for the current portfolio and the assumed portfolio with a 25% swap overlay 22
8.00% 6.00% 4.00%
6.37% 6.03%
3.71% 2.36%
2.00%
0.61% 0.97% 0.53%
1.55%
0.00%
-1.6%
-2.00% -4.00%
2.68%
-2.13% -3.49% -3.45%
-4.70%
-6.00%
-6.32%
-8.00%
Worst 20%
2nd Quintile
Factor Quintile Average Value
3rd Quintile
Current Portfolio Average Perf.
4th Quintile
Best 20%
Assumed with Swap Overlay Avg. Perf.
Another potential use of derivatives: Using the VIX as a hedge for equity and credit risk in the portfolio 23
Factor response curve to the VIX index for our current portfolio 40.00% 30.00%
30.36%
20.00% 10.00% 3.70%
1.41%
0.00% -8.84%
7.11%
-1.93% 0.59%
-1.44% -4.73%
-10.00% -20.00%
-20.40%
-30.00% Worst 20%
2nd Quintile
Factor Quintile Average Perf.
3rd Quintile
4th Quintile
Best 20%
Current Portfolio Average Perf.
Of all the factor response curves that we analyzed, the VIX provides the best hedge for plan surplus against adverse market movements in equities and credit spreads.
How new investment strategies could potentially improve the plan’s risk/return profile 24
Example: Representative Basket of Hedge Fund Strategies
Efficient Frontier with and without a Diversified Basket of Hedge Fund Strategies 30.00 20.00 10.00 0.00 -10.00 -20.00 -30.00 -40.00 -50.00 -60.00 -70.00 0.00
200.00
400.00
600.00
with Hedge Fund Basket
800.00
1,000.00
1,200.00
1,400.00
Current
These hedge funds strategies could potentially improve returns by generating true alpha, resulting in equity-like returns with fixed income volatility.
This compares the historical performance of our current allocation with an assumed portfolio containing 18% in hedge funds 25 140.00 120.00 100.00 86.7
80.00
73.2
60.00 40.00 20.00 0.00
With Hedgefunds
Current Portfolio Surplus
The assumed portfolio being modeled here is Portfolio F from the efficient frontier on the previous page. This portfolio has a surplus risk level that is comparable to our current portfolio.
This compares the factor response curves of the current portfolio and the assumed portfolio with an 18% allocation to hedge funds 26
Factor response curves to changes in the value of the pension liabilities 8.00%
6.37%
6.00% 4.00%
6.03% 5.47% 2.36%
2.00% 2.14%
0.53% 0.97%
-1.58%
0.59%
0.00%
-2.00% -4.00%
2.68%
-3.00% -4.70% -3.45%
-5.21%
-6.00% -6.32%
-8.00% Worst 20%
2nd Quintile
Factor Quintile Average Perf.
3rd Quintile Current Portfolio Average Perf.
4th Quintile
Best 20%
Portfolio with Hedge Funds Perf.
Side bar: Are these hedge fund assumptions (particularly for alpha generation) realistic? 27
Based on one academic study they are, but investors are paying dearly for alpha Pre-Fee Strategy Returns* CV Arb 10.76 Emerging 12.51 Equity Market Neutral 10.34 Event Driven 11.91 Fixed Inc. Arb 9.72 Global Macro 11.08 L/S Equity 13.99 Managed Futures 7.79 Short 1.17 Overall Equally Weighted 11.13
Fees* 3.35 3.70 3.27 3.58 3.14 3.42 4.00 2.76 1.50 3.43
Post-Fee Systematic Alpha/Fee Info Sharpe Return Alpha Beta Return Ratio Ratio Ratio 7.41 2.79 4.61 0.83 0.45 0.97 8.81 4.66 4.15 1.26 0.39 0.64 7.08 2.86 4.21 0.88 1.01 2.24 8.33 3.94 4.39 1.10 0.96 1.41 6.57 2.91 3.67 0.92 0.67 1.43 7.67 2.54 5.13 0.74 0.39 1.14 9.99 4.79 5.20 1.20 0.71 1.02 5.03 0.57 4.46 0.21 0.06 0.52 -0.34 1.91 -2.25 1.28 0.15 0.08 7.70
3.00
4.70
0.88
0.60
1.13
*Source: “The ABC’s of Hedge Funds: alphas, betas & costs”; Ibbotson, Chen and Zhu; July 2010; based on data from Jan. 1995-Dec. 2009
Note: the return numbers presented here are adjusted by the researchers for survivor bias and backfill bias.
The need for tactical asset allocation: risk levels change over time, sometimes violently 28
Example: Based on current “real time� assumptions that would have been used based on market conditions in Dec 2008, the plan surplus efficient frontier would have looked very different than using normative assumptions 29
Year End 2008
250.00 200.00 150.00
Surplus Return $MM
100.00
The range of risk levels increased significantly in late 2008, but there was still the opportunity to increase expected returns at comparable levels of risk.
50.00 0.00 -50.00 -100.00 0.00
500.00
1,000.00
1,500.00
2,000.00
2,500.00
3,000.00
Surplus Risk $MM Year End 2008
Current Using Normative Assumptions
The charts on the following pages outline the differences between our normative risk and return assumptions and those that would have been used in Dec 2008.
This compares the asset allocations along the efficient frontier under both sets of assumptions 30
Portfolio Allocations using 2008 Assumptions Asset
Portfolio 1
Portfolio 2
Portfolio 3
Portfolio 4
Portfolio 5
Portfolio 6
Portfolio 7
Portfolio 8
Portfolio 9
Portfolio 10
Wilshire - 5000 Composite Index (Full Cap)
0.00
6.49
12.38
18.10
23.63
29.17
34.70
40.24
45.77
0.00
MSCI - EAFE Index ($Net)
0.00
3.02
6.62
10.97
16.13
21.29
26.46
31.62
36.78
88.00
Barclays Capital - U.S. Aggregate Index
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
Barclays Capital - U.S. TIPS Index
0.69
26.34
51.12
58.93
48.24
37.54
26.84
16.14
5.45
0.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
Barclays Capital - U.S. Corporate Long Index*
87.31
52.14
17.88
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
Return
-0.72
0.18
0.98
1.67
2.22
2.64
2.94
3.12
3.19
2.59
0.66
3.54
6.79
10.11
13.74
17.52
21.38
25.28
29.20
35.28
Citigroup Global Markets - Pension Liability Index
Risk Surplus Return
-52.56
13.14
71.54
121.91
162.06
192.72
214.62
227.76
232.87
189.07
48.18
258.42
495.67
738.03
1,003.02
1,278.96
1,560.74
1,845.44
2,131.60
2,575.44
Surplus Risk
Portfolio Allocations using Normative Assumptions Asset
Portfolio A Portfolio B
Portfolio C
Portfolio D
Portfolio E
Portfolio F
Portfolio G
Portfolio H
Portfolio I
Portfolio J
Wilshire - 5000 Composite Index (Full Cap) MSCI - EAFE Index ($Net)
0.00
1.49
5.34
9.20
13.05
16.91
20.77
24.62
28.48
0.00
0.00
8.37
14.50
20.64
26.77
32.91
39.04
45.18
51.31
88.00
Barclays Capital - U.S. Aggregate Index
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
Barclays Capital - U.S. TIPS Index
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
Barclays Capital - U.S. Corporate Long Index Citigroup Global Markets - Pension Liability Index Annual Surplus Return
88.00
78.14
68.15
58.16
48.17
38.18
28.19
18.20
8.21
0.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
100.00
-56.32
-38.57
-23.22
-10.22
0.47
8.89
15.09
19.12
21.06
18.84
Annual Surplus Risk
113.97
208.02
329.77
457.42
587.15
717.82
849.00
980.49
1,112.17
1,257.04
Notice we added the Barclays US Corporate Long Index as an eligible sub asset class.
To show how changes in market conditions can influence plan surplus risk, we calculated historical surplus VAR on the current plan asset mix based on assumed returns that would have been used and actual trailing 12-month volatility and correlations 31
Retirement Plan Surplus VAR 95% 2,600 2,400 2,200 2,000 1,800 1,600 1,400 1,200 1,000
800 600
Surplus VAR 95%
The surplus risk level of our current asset mix has fluctuated widely over the past ten years – demonstrating the need to continuously monitor risk and evaluate tactical shifts.
Establish an approach for lowering plan risk levels (i.e., a “derisking glide path�) 32
Criteria
Application
Passage of time
Reduce surplus volatility or VAR by a predetermined percentage each year
Ratio based on funded status requirements
Maintain constant ratio of surplus volatility or VAR to plan surplus
Ratio based on funding requirements to risk
Maintain a constant ratio of PV of 20 yrs. future contributions to surplus VAR
Example : Derisking via a constant reduction in surplus VAR 33
Plan Surplus and actuarially 窶電etermined funding by year assuming a 10% annual reduction in surplus VAR; actual returns equal normative returns 1,500
1180
1062
1,000
Derived Plan Funding 944
826
2011 2012 2013 2014
708
500 0
$420MM $431MM $446MM $465MM
Surplus Surplus VAR
-500 -1,000 -1,500
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
This would result in an approximate reduction in public equity exposure from 55% at year end 2010 to 30% by year-end 2014.
Some final macro thoughts: If pension funds collectively implemented a derisking strategy by buying long-duration bonds, it would effectively serve as a “cap� on long-term interest rates 34
Change in Long-Term Corporate Bond Yields From a 1% Increase in Pension Fund Allocation to Fixed Income AAA Corporate Bonds
Yield Change Adjusted R-Squared
A Corporate Bonds
Nominal
Real
Nominal
Real
-0.48%
-0.55%
-0.33%
-0.46%
0.84
0.87
0.88
0.64
Source: Adequacy of Bond Supply and Cost of Pension Benefits: A Financial Economics Perspective; Y. Julia Xiao and Yinghin Xiao; Society Of Actuaries website
We believe the impact of pension fund derisking is also being felt in the interest rate swap market, where spreads have inverted 35
70
60 50 40
57.50
55.00
52.25 45.25
30 20 10 0 -10
20.63
2 Years
22.63
11.19
5 Years
10 Years
12/31/2005
Present (03/21/11)
-20 -30
-24.06
30 Years