In

conversation with Andy Slaughter

tory, and the way that campaign was conducted, Brexit was a big factor. And I think that although that was not quite the same as having a second referendum, it would be quite difficult now to reverse the outcome. The public did vote for Brexit, and they then voted for a party with a big majority which had a very clear Brexit program. I think you must have a clear mandate to have that other referendum now. Remain would have to be ahead in the polls for a long period of time, and then you can probably say that opinion polls would allow us to have another think about this. We have to follow the leadership of the public.

can see exactly the same issue with the death of two-year-old Awaab Ishak in 2020, which happened because of the neglect by the social landlord since the conditions in their property were so bad. So it is not just to do with fire safety, although that is extremely important, but also to do with heat proofing, housing conditions and overcrowding. Across the ball, we have failed on social housing. Of course there are lots of other problems such as health and education, but in terms of neglect, this has gone on for over a 30-year period, and social housing has just gone off the government’s radar.

É: Does Labour have a viable plan to solve the housing crisis? Would Labour keep the Right to Acquire Scheme to help people buy their homes?

É: But wouldn’t a second referendum contradict Keir Starmer’s position to commit to Brexit?

ANDY Slaughter serves as the Shadow Solicitor General for England and Wales. Slaughter read English at the University of Exeter from 1979-82 before entering politics as an MP in 1997. He has previously held roles under Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Jeremy Corbyn. Benedict Thompson, Features Editor, spoke to Slaughter about the current political climate and the Labour Party’s message.

É: Polls have placed Labour on 45 per cent whilst the Conservatives are on 29 per cent. What is on your mind about Keir Starmer?

AS: That is a very significant lead. It is a reflection I think of both the fact that people are very fed up with the way that the Conservative Party have behaved for reasons I think we all know. But also that people feel comfortable about voting for Labour. I don’t think people have reservations about Labour, they clearly view us as the better option. Keir Starmer is in large part responsible for that because what the Labour Party has done comes from the leader for understandable reasons. I’ve known Keir Starmer for a very long time when I was just starting up in law about 30 years ago. So I have no problem with Keir at all. I supported him in the leadership, and I know he is up for the job. It is an incredibly difficult job, but he has got the skills and temperament to be Prime Minister. It is a process of getting to know you [Starmer], and I think that is what he has been getting through, but it has taken longer than it normally would because of the pandemic so he has not been exposed to much in that way. I think now people can see that Keir is somebody that would not just make a good PM but is someone that we need in the current crisis.

É: Is it time for a general election?

AS: I’m going to say yes to that because we are 20 per cent ahead in the polls and every party wants to be in power, nobody wants to be in opposition. The argument against it, which is what the Conservatives are clinging onto, is that we have a parliamentary system where we have fixed term elections every five years. I think we are in very exceptional times now because we have had so many changes in government without a general election and the Conservative government is not on the same footing as it was when it was elected. They do not have the same legitimacy you would expect a government with such continuity to have and it does seem to have lost its way. You can see that the government do not really have the confidence or the concentration on the job that they are supposed to do. So I think a general election is probably the only option.

É: In 2018 you stated, “I am firmly signed up to support a People’s Vote with the option of remaining in the EU”. Is that still your position?

AS: Not exactly, but only because time has moved on. There was a strong feeling at that time but clearly not strong enough because Brexit was such a momentous decision with consequences. You’ve got the four per cent decrease in GDP. It was worth checking with the public if the Brexit vote was right given a lot of disinformation that there had been. Whatever you say about the 2019 general election vic-

AS: I don’t think there is going to be a second referendum in the foreseeable future. Certainly not in the next government. Looking beyond that, looking beyond the next ten years in the future, it depends on a lot of factors. The main one would be if there was a clear poll lead for one, that would be a basis for having one. You can draw parallels to Scottish independence in that way.

É: If there was one single issue that Labour should be talking about more, what would that issue be?

AS: It is difficult to talk about things other than the economic crisis at the moment because it is so severe. And what is exceptional about it is that you can argue whether the government has caused the economic crisis, or you can argue whether they responded well to the crisis. You can say that as much about the 2008 financial crash and the current cost-of-living crisis. But I think what is unique about this government is that it has provenly made things worse. It has taken action which has deepened the crisis. And so, for that reason, we have to focus on what steps we now need to take to protect people, particularly people who are most vulnerable to the cost-of-living crisis.

É: Are there still lessons to be learnt about protection in social housing following the Grenfell Tower incident in 2017?

AS: Grenfell is literally just up the road from me, so I have lived with the consequences of the incident. I’ve been quite involved in the Grenfell campaign. But social housing, and housing generally, has consistently been the biggest issue over the time I have been in politics because it is such a difficult problem. Grenfell wasn’t the start of the issue but was the most dramatic example of neglect and not treating people in social housing with decency and listening to them. You

AS: Lots of governments have fiddled around with the housing system at different times, so the situation is quite complicated. Housing is unaffordable for most people. Private renting is also unaffordable to many people. If you are a housing association tenant, which is about half of all social housing, you don’t have an automatic right to buy your home. That is something which the Conservatives keep threatening to change. If they don’t, it is because they know that will make the housing crisis much worse because it will take a whole huge chunk of affordable property out of the market and make it unaffordable. Home ownership will put less pressure on social housing, but if you are going to take an existing social housing unit, you have got to replace it, but this has not happened, and that is why the Right to Acquire scheme has failed. Even with a 50-70 per cent discount, a lot of people simply can’t afford to buy their homes.

É: Hundreds of NHS bureaucrats are earning more than £100,000 a year while 14 per cent of nurses are using food banks? Does Labour have a plan to protect NHS workers?

AS: The deterioration of the NHS has really happened since 2010. There are hundreds of thousands of vacancies, and that is partly because of poor wages for people on the front line. But if you have a healthcare system which employs just over a million people, then you are inevitably going to have high paying jobs..

É: UK care homes are still stopping family reunions after Covid-19, leaving a devastating impact on the elderly and their loved ones. Do you support the Resident’s Relative’s Association and the John’s Campaign to ‘End Isolation In Care’ to ensure visiting rights in law?

AS: The way that care homes were treated was probably the worst thing that came out of Covid because you had a lot of people dying since they were being discharged from hospitals into care homes with Covid when they then spread the disease. And then the reaction to that was to effectively iso- late them and close care homes and in the same process trapping Covid inside. You were then effectively shutting the door on the residents. You had those terrible scenes of people then not being able to visit their relatives before they died. I hope lessons can be learnt from that. In Hammersmith, we had a very robust response because the people who were policing the care homes were the local authorities. Most care homes are private, for example Chiswick Nursing Centre, very few are run by the state. But the state still has to draw the policing. The NHS were being instructed by the government to free up beds. The reason why I think that is relevant here is that although it sounds very attractive to say that the relatives should have the last say, the fact that the councils do that is, in the end, to save a lot of lives. The problem which caused everything, the deaths and the inhumanity of the separation of people, was the fact that both clinical and managerial decisions were not made correctly.

É: What is your single biggest worry about Rishi Sunak as PM? AS: It was a cruel but fairly good joke when Keir Starmer said in Sunak’s first PMQs that Sunak had lost an election who herself became second to a lettuce. There is an element in truth in that. That even the Conservative Party itself had rejected Rishi Sunak as leader and then because of the way things went they had to turn to him a few months later. Everybody deserves a chance so we will see what he does but it is not a good start. Firstly, because he is the third PM in six months, and secondly because he hasn’t been elected by the public and he hasn’t made a good first impression. Partly because, and this may suggest because he has no alternative, he has reappointed people who are seen to be some of the worst failures in the previous government. People including Suella Braverman, Dominic Raab and Gavin Williamson. Two of them have already gone. Now some people say that he had effectively no choice because they could blackmail Sunak into giving them those jobs. That shows he is in a very weak position or that he has very bad judgement because clearly those people should not be in government. I can’t think of a worse start. Even Liz Truss had a better start. It doesn’t look good for him.

É: Do you have any advice to students who are interested in pursuing a career in politics?

AS: Everybody finds their own way. Students should try and approach politics from their own lives and things that have happened to them.