INTERVIEW WITH THE 2023 HSBA PRESIDENT RHONDA GRISWOLD

Please provide your background.

I have been married to Jeff Griswold for 41 years and we have two boys, Wes (age 34) and Luke (age 28). Jeff is an HSBA member who has been trying to retire for several years. Wes is a Boston University graduate and computer engineer who lives in Portland, Oregon, with his journalist wife, Kaitlin. Luke is a University of California, San Diego graduate and an environmental engineer living in the Bay area. Both are also ‘Iolani graduates and we are very proud of them.

I followed Jeff to Hawai‘i in 1980. We had met in Washington, D.C. where I worked for a congressman and Jeff had just graduated from Georgetown Law School. He was a JAG officer stationed at Fort Shafter and, after trying a long-distance relationship in the days before iPhones and email, I took a leap of faith and came to Hawai‘i. It was one of the best decisions of my life.

And, of course, let us know your educational history.

I attended Shasta College, a community college near my hometown and then went to California State University, Chico, where I graduated with a double major in English and Social Science. Chico State had a real reputation as a sorority/fraternity party school but I worked my way through school so no sororities for me (though I did party a bit)! I planned to be a high school teacher and did one semester of student teaching. I was a 21-year-old teaching juniors and seniors who were 17 and 18 years old. I will be the first to admit that it was difficult for me to control the classroom and it gave me a tremendous respect for teachers, a respect that I have to this day. In one of my favorite West

Wing episodes, one of the characters comments that teachers should live in castles and make six-figure incomes. I totally agree.

In any event, my college counselor encouraged me to go to law school, but I did not know a single lawyer and had no clue as to what lawyers actually do. And I was tired of school. The same college counselor then arranged an internship for me in Washington, D.C. with our local Congressman, Harold T. “Bizz” Johnson, who was Chair of the Public Works & Transportation Committee. Thus, I moved to a city where everyone seemed to be a lawyer (and met the lawyer that I would marry).

After moving to Hawai‘i, I was lucky enough to get accepted at the William S. Richardson School of Law (which had not yet been named) and am a proud graduate of the Class of 1984.

After law school describe your legal career and experience.

I joined Cades Schutte in 1984. I was an associate in the litigation department, working primarily in commercial lender liability cases. I made partner in 1990. But, while I had achieved what I had worked so hard towards, I began to feel like a failure. I did not feel like I was a good mother (Wes was three or four at the time), or a good wife, or a good attorney. I would cry every morning driving over the Pali and every evening driving home. It was debilitating. My husband was very supportive and just wanted me to be happy. But I was overwhelmed with the practice of law and my family responsibilities.

So I sought help. I saw a psychologist who diagnosed me with depression and gave me the tools that I needed to get my life back. First, I reduced my work hours and negotiated a part-time arrangement with my firm (and thereafter worked part-time for about five years while my children were young). Second, I changed my practice area from commercial litigation to trusts and estates. I had handled a few trust litigation matters while in the litigation department but returned to law school and took the Gift & Estate Tax course so that I could better learn the estate planning area. In estate planning, I found work that was meaningful to me. That is not to say that trusts and estates work is any easier than litigation. In many respects, it is not. We deal with difficult family situations and complex and changing tax laws. But I found that estate planning suited me better and gave me more job satisfaction. Finally, I learned to make exercise a priority for my mental well-being. While I had been a runner since college, I found less time to work out as a busy working mother, but I learned that daily exercise was critical to my well-being.

I was not sure if I should share this deeply personal information but have decided to do so for two reasons. First and foremost, if it helps even one person who is feeling overwhelmed by this profession to seek help, then it is worth it. Second, I want employers and fellow attorneys to be sensitive to the mental health issues that affect our profession and encourage them to provide support and options to those who may be experiencing depression, burn out, or hopelessness. In 1991 I was ready to quit the profession but because my mentors at Cades Schutte stepped up to the plate for me, I was able to find a meaningful and sustainable practice area and believe that I have ultimately been a productive partner for our firm and in a position to help others. I don’t know if any of my partners know how fragile I felt at the time (I don’t think my husband even knew how fragile I felt), but I am grateful.

The Bar Directory lists past presidents of the HSBA who are current and former Cades Schutte members. How many were there?

I was privileged to have worked with all three Cades partners who served as HSBA presidents. As a law student, I took professional responsibility from Fred Schutte and then worked with him on analyzing an ethical issue after I first joined the firm. As a young litigator, I worked with Bill Fleming on a case on Maui and later I worked with Bill on his estate plan. And I had several cases with Jeff Portnoy as a litigation associate. I also helped Jeff with his “American Idol” fundraiser during his term as HSBA president. Jeff was and is still a force to be reckoned with in any arena.

What do you consider to be the major issues facing the bar association this coming year, and what plans do you have regarding those issues?

These are my personal views but I believe there is a concern about attrition at all levels of practice. I understand that law school enrollment nationwide (including at the William S. Richardson School of Law) has decreased, which means that there are fewer young lawyers in the pipeline. I am concerned about young and mid-career attorneys becoming overwhelmed by the practice of law for the reasons I discussed above and leaving the profession. And we always face the problem of losing talented lawyers to the mainland firms where they are paid so much more and the cost of living is generally less. Plus we have the natural aging of lawyers (including myself) who need to come up with succession plans and gracefully transition out of the practice (easier said than done).

We also need to continue the work of promoting and achieving diversity amongst our members. The legal profession and the judiciary should reflect the diversity of the people we are serving, whether it be race, gender, or sex. That is not the work of the Committee on Diversity, Equality, and the Law alone. It is up to each and every one of us and our firms to support those who have been historically underrepresented in our profession. This can include encouraging high school and college students in underrepresented groups to pursue law school, providing scholarships and internships, providing job opportunities, and mentoring.

And, finally, I am always concerned about access to justice. While Volunteer Legal Services of Hawai‘i and Legal Aid Society of Hawai‘i do an admirable job addressing the legal needs of low-income individuals, there are a vast number of those in the middle-class who cannot afford our services. Many of us do “lowbono” work for those who cannot afford our standard rates but I think we need to explore ways to provide more economical services.

Are there any other thoughts that you would like to share?

Despite my discussion of my personal mental health issues, my grandmother always called me the “family optimist.” And I am. I am a glass-half-full optimist. I want to see the best in people. I want the HSBA to provide resources and tools to help our members be the best versions of themselves.

I am a true believer in the power of kindness. One of my favorite expressions (from a sign at Kailua Intermediate School) is “Spread Kindness Like Confetti.” And while we are often advocates and certainly need to be tough in the positions that we take, we can still be kind, even to our adversaries. It is truly a privilege to serve as HSBA President. I will do my best.