DALIBOR MATANIĆ True Art Can and Must Push Boundaries

True Art Can and Must Push Boundaries

Prava umjetnost može i mora pomaknuti granice

We talked to one of the most productive and most awarded Croatian film directors about films, series, awards, acknowledgments, and the challenging and difficult topics he deals with in his work

Razgovarali smo s jednim od najproduktivnijih i najnagrađivanijih hrvatskih filmskih redatelja o filmovima, serijama, nagradama, priznanjima te zahtjevnim i teškim temama kojih se dotiče u svojem radu

Author: SANDRA OSREČKI Photo: GORAN JAKUŠ

Although he often likes to quote the Coen brothers, who said “Just let us play in our corner of the sandbox”, his films and series have little in common with children’s games. There are far from fun, carefree, and often superficial games that children play. Although of boyish and playful spirit, one of the most awarded and most productive Croatian directors, Dalibor Matanić, successfully pours his deep-seated humanistic trait into his films and series, freely and explicitly criticising society, pointing out the evil in the world, bravely exploring difficult, dark, and thorny social themes and relationships, but in his own bright noir way. Dealing with humanistic topics, he firmly believes in a better society, in the victory of good over evil, in social responsibility and general wellbeing. Dalibor Matanić believes that true art is not subject to the director’s ego or the audience’s entertainment; Iako često voli citirati braću Coen: „Samo nas pustite da se igramo u svojem dijelu pješčanika“, njegovi filmovi i serije nimalo ne podsjećaju na dječju igru. Daleko su od zabavne, bezbrižne i često plitke dječje igre. Iako dječačkog i razigranog duha, jedan od najnagrađivanijih i najproduktivnijih hrvatskih redatelja, Dalibor Matanić, svoju duboko usađenu humanističku crtu uspješno pretače u svoje filmove i serije, slobodno i eksplicitno kritizirajući društvo, ukazujući na zlo u svijetu, hrabro se dotičući teških, mračnih i škakljivih društvenih tema i odnosa, ali na bright noir način, svojstven upravo njemu. Baveći se humanističkim temama, čvrsto vjeruje u bolje društvo, u to da dobro pobjeđuje zlo, u društvenu odgovornost i opći boljitak. Dalibor Matanić smatra da prava umjetnost nije podređena egu redatelja ni zabavi publike; ona je teška, probija granice,

it’s difficult, it pushes boundaries, offers new perspectives and points of view. It is the society’s corrective. Although he often pulls us into difficult and deep topics which make us think, his style leaves nobody indifferent. Courageously playing in his sandbox, Dalibor has built real little masterpieces from sand: The Cashier Wants to Go to the Seaside, Fine Dead Girls, Hundred Minutes of Glory, I Love U, Lika Cinema, Mother of Asphalt, Daddy, Handymen, the High Sun, the series The Paper. We can also mention his new film, The Dawn – the second in his Trilogy of the Sun (The High Sun, The Dawn, The Sunset), his trilogy against fascism, as well as the awarded series The Last Socialist Artefact and the first season of the series Silence, which deals with the topic of child prostitution and human trafficking, based on the motifs from Drago Hedl’s novel.

You are an internationally awarded director, and you represent Croatia globally. You have a big responsibility.

I look at that as sort of a definition of honesty, how prepared we are to be honest with ourselves. So, I can be the corrective of the state, point out flaws if the state is not honest with itself, and, on the other hand, I can point out the quality which can be found among people and professionals here. This is the only honourable position, the role of every director in the world who is trying to say something about their corner of the world. I believe that understanding culture means rising above state borders. I try to make my films and series as universal as possible. I don’t act too locally. I believe that the story you tell about Croatia must be understood in any part of the world, this is something that brings the world together.

Your films and series have won international awards and acknowledgments. The film The High Sun achieved global success, it was the Croatian Academy Award entry, and it also achieved historic success at the Cannes Film Festival by winning the Jury Prize for the best film in the Un Certain Regard programme. How did you feel on the Cannes red carpet?

We received a five-minute standing ovation in Cannes after the screening of The High Sun. You can see that you’re becoming fashionable when suddenly everyone starts talking about you, and as your film becomes the centre of attention, there’s also growing interest for the screening afterparty. The party we organized for a small number of people ended up being the out-ofcontrol party that everyone wanted to be at. This is the best sign that your movie was a success, as was the case with The High Sun.

How much do awards and acknowledgments mean to you? Which award are you especially proud of?

If we’re talking about acknowledgments, I found it awesome when we had a premiere in Knin (because the film was shot in that area), and women, even those who don’t usually go to the cinema, rushed to the premiere in their tracksuits. This was a great acknowledgment to me. As for awards, any audience award is especially interesting, as are directing awards. It’s also interesting that I feel every acting award as my own otvara nove vidike i kutove gledanja. Ona je korektiv društva. Iako nas često uvuče u teške i duboke teme koje nas potiču na promišljanje, njegov stil nikoga ne ostavlja ravnodušnim. Hrabro se igrajući u svojem pješčaniku, Dalibor je izgradio prava mala remek-djela od pijeska: „Blagajnica hoće ići na more”, „Fine mrtve djevojke”, „100 minuta slave”, „Volim te”, „Kino Lika”, „Majka asfalta”, „Ćaća”, „Majstori”, „Zvizdan”, seriju „Novine”. Tu je još i novi film „Zora“ – drugi iz njegove Trilogije sunca („Zvizdan”, „Zora”, „Suton”), trilogije protiv fašizma, zatim nagrađena serija „Područje bez signala” te prva sezona serije „Šutnja” koja govori o dječjoj prostituciji i bijelom roblju, rađena prema motivima romana Drage Hedla.

Međunarodno ste nagrađivani redatelj i predstavljate Hrvatsku u svijetu. Imate veliku odgovornost.

Na to gledam kao na neku definiciju iskrenosti, koliko smo spremni biti iskreni prema sebi. Dakle, mogu biti korektiv države, ukazivati na neke mane, ako ona nije iskrena prema sebi, a mogu s druge strane ukazivati i na kvalitetu koja ovdje postoji među ljudima i profesionalcima. To je jedna časna pozicija, uloga svakog redatelja u svijetu, koji pokušava nešto reći o svojem kraju. Smatram da shvaćanje kulture znači izdizanje iznad granica države. Pokušavam raditi filmove i serije što je više moguće univerzalnije. Ne djelujem previše lokalno. Smatram da priča koju ispričate u Hrvatskoj mora biti razumljiva u svim dijelovima svijeta, to je nešto što povezuje svijet.

Vaši filmovi i serije osvajaju međunarodne nagrade i priznanja. Film „Zvizdan“ doživio je svjetski uspjeh, bio je kandidat za Oscara, a ostvario je i povijesni uspjeh na Filmskom festivalu u Cannesu, osvojivši nagradu žirija za najbolji film u programu Un Certain Regard. Kako ste se osjećali na kanskom crvenom tepihu?

Dobili smo petnaestminutne ovacije u Cannesu za vrijeme projekcije „Zvizdana“. Najbolje vidite kako ulazite u modu kad odjednom svi počnu govoriti o vama i kako vaš film ulazi u žarište interesa, počinje rasti i interes za party nakon filma. Party koji smo mi napravili za mali broj ljudi na kraju se pretvorio u „krvoločni party“ na koji su svi željeli doći. To vam je najbolji pokazatelj da ste doživjeli uspjeh s filmom, što je bio slučaj sa „Zvizdanom“.

Koliko vam znače nagrade i priznanja? Na koju ste nagradu posebno ponosni?

Ako govorimo o priznanjima, bilo mi je genijalno, kad smo imali premijeru u Kninu (jer je film sniman u tom kraju), što su žene, čak i one koje inače ne idu u kino, pohitale u trenirkama na premijeru. To mi je bilo veliko priznanje. A što se nagrada tiče, svaka nagrada publike je posebno interesantna, kao i nagrade za režiju. Zanimljivo je to i da svaku nagradu za glumca na neki način osjećam kao svoju. Glumci znaju koliko im se dajem i to uzvraćaju. Teško mi je izdvojiti neku nagradu, ali definitivno neke nagrade prednjače pred drugima, to su one nagrade kojima probijate granice. Takva je nagrada za „Zvizdan“ u Cannesu i nagrada na Series Mania za „Područje bez signala“. I believe that understanding culture means rising above state borders. I try to make my films and series as universal as possible.

Smatram da shvaćanje kulture znači izdizanje iznad granica države. Pokušavam raditi filmove i serije što je više moguće univerzalnije.

I’m looking forward to the possibilities offered by The Sunset, it is actually a triumph of love. A tender conclusion of the whole trilogy.

Veselim se mogućnosti snimanja „Sutona“, on je zapravo trijumf ljubavi. Nježan završetak cijele trilogije. in a way. Actors know how much of myself I give to them, and they give it back. It’s difficult to single out an award, but some definitely take precedence over others, these are the awards which break boundaries. This is what the Cannes award for The High Sun is, as well as the Séries Mania award for The Last Socialist Artefact.

After The High Sun, we also had the opportunity to watch the second part of the trilogy. How did The Dawn fare with audiences and critics?

I know that The Dawn will be one of the movies I will be most proud to have made. It was exceptionally brave; we went off the beaten track. We didn’t want to make The High Sun 2, we wanted to open up a new area, experiment. I hope that the audience has survived  because it’s an experimental film. On the other hand, the reactions to the film have been excellent.

Some critics say it’s (too) artistic?

This is the greatest compliment anyone can give me. The world today follows schemes and formulae, our whole life is set up and organized in line with predictable trajectories. This was the road less travelled. We could have made a sequel to The High Sun, a copy of sorts, and get more awards, but this wasn’t our path. We wanted to do something more courageous.

What do you expect from The Sunset?

I’m looking forward to the possibilities offered by The Sunset, it is actually a triumph of love. A tender conclusion of the whole trilogy. Nakon „Zvizdana“ imali smo priliku pogledati i drugi dio trilogije. Kako je „Zora“ prošla kod publike, a kako kod kritičara?

Za „Zoru“ znam da će biti jedan od filmova na koji ću biti najponosniji što smo ga snimili. To je bilo izrazito hrabro, nismo išli utabanim putevima. Nismo željeli snimiti „Zvizdan 2“, već smo željeli otvoriti novo područje, eksperimentirati. Nadam se da je publika to preživjela  jer je to eksperimentalan film. S druge strane, reakcije na film su bile odlične.

Neki kritičari kažu da je (pre)artističan?

To mi je najveći kompliment koji mi netko može dati. Današnji svijet je napravljen po shemama i formulama, cijeli život nam je napravljen i organiziran prema nekim očekivanim putanjama. Ovo je bio jedan neutabani put. Mogli smo snimiti nastavak „Zvizdana“ kao neku kopiju i pokupiti još nagrada, ali to nije bio naš put. Željeli smo nešto hrabrije.

Što očekujete od „Sutona“?

Veselim se mogućnosti snimanja „Sutona“, on je zapravo trijumf ljubavi. Nježan završetak cijele trilogije.

U posljednje ste vrijeme napravili zaokret prema serijama, što rade brojna velika redateljska i glumačka imena. Smatrate li da je danas zlatno doba serija?

Svakako je. Publika je prepoznala skučenost Hollywooda koji je postao svjetska korporacija, gdje se mora raditi i vrtjeti novac. Pa se ide, na primjer, na Marvelo-

Lately, you’ve turned to series, which is what many great directing and acting names have also been doing. Do you consider this to be the golden age of series?

I certainly do. The audience has recognized the limitations of Hollywood, which has become a global corporation, where work and money are prerogatives. For this reason, it is focused on, for example, Marvel franchises, which don’t have a mature audience. That’s why many current directors have turned to television, it provides a guarantee, security. Not only series, but also TV films, depending on what interests them; here they can include sex, cursing, murders, things they once had in films, but now they’re being censored in a way, because of the rules of the market. In my case, the success that I achieved with the series The Paper is something that hasn’t been achieved by many, not even in the USA. To break through globally with a series from the tiny Croatia is really incredible. The Paper is often compared to All the President’s Men which was one of my main visual guides when we started working.

A good film leaves a trace. Is this also true about series? What is their artistic value?

I believe that a television series should be made in the same way as a film. I don’t see any difference there. That’s why, when someone asks me when I’m going to make a new film, I’m always confused, because I feel as if I’m always shooting one while I’m making series. I think of all of this as a way to bring power back to film, to use television and series as a way to return to a new golden age of film.

Do you consider streaming services to be the future of cinematography, and how do you feel about the fact that in the future, we might be watching films on televisions and laptops, deprived of the experience and magic of the silver screen?

I don’t think cinemas will ever become extinct. The cinema as a sociological and social code of spending time together and watching films will never become extinct. Only if there’s a pandemic and everything switches over to streaming services. There’s nothing like a premiere at a film festival in front of large crowds. When we had the premiere of the series The Last Socialist Artefact at the Series Mania festival in Lille, there were between 500 and 1000 guests, all finally out after the lockdown, who came to talk about series, films. This was priceless, the joy of all those people.

How do you choose actors for a film, and how do you choose them for a series? Is there any difference?

It’s all the same to me, theatre, film, series. It’s the energy that matters to me. These are only different mediums, it’s all about where you channel the main idea, i.e., the thing you want to talk about.

Do you manage to get the best out of actors?

I do the best I can. I believe they put their trust in me. There are many actors I’ve been working with, and if I told them to crash through this glass right now, I believe that ten of them would do it, no questions asked. ve franšize koje nemaju zrelu publiku. Zato su danas brojni aktualni redatelji pohitali prema televiziji, to im daje neku garanciju, sigurnost. Ne samo prema serijama, već i TV filmovima, ovisno o tome što ih interesira; tu mogu imati i seks, i psovke, i ubojstva, i neke stvari koje su imali i prije u filmovima, ali su sada zbog tržišnih pravila malo cenzurirali. Što se mene tiče, uspjeh kakav sam imao sa serijom „Novine“ postigne rijetko tko čak i u Americi. Probiti se serijom u svjetskim parametrima iz male Hrvatske je zaista nevjerojatno. Često „Novine“ uspoređuju sa serijom „Svi predsjednikovi ljudi“, koja mi je bila jedan od glavnih vizualnih pravaca kad smo počeli raditi.

Dobar film ostavlja trag. Vrijedi li to i za serije? Kakva je njihova umjetnička vrijednost?

Smatram da se televizijska serija mora raditi kao film. Ne vidim tu nikakvu razliku. Zato, kad me netko pita kada ću raditi novi film, uvijek se zbunim jer smatram da ga stalno snimam, dok snimam serije. Mislim da je sve ovo put ka tome da se opet vrati snaga filma, da se preko televizije i preko serija vratimo u neko novo zlatno doba filma.

Smatrate li da su streaming servisi budućnost kinematografije i kako gledate na to da bismo ubuduće filmove gledali na televizijama i laptopima, zakinuti za doživljaj i čaroliju velikog ekrana?

Smatram da kina nikad neće izumrijeti. Kino kao sociološki i društveni kôd druženja i gledanja filmova nikad neće izumrijeti. Jedino ako se dogodi pandemija i sve se prebaci na streaming servise. Nezamjenjivo je imati premijeru na filmskom festivalu pred mnogo ljudi. Kad smo imali premijeru serije „Područje bez signala“ na Series Maniji u Lilleu, bilo je između 500 i 1000 uzvanika koji su napokon nakon lockdowna izašli van, među ljude, došli razgovarati o serijama, filmovima. To je bilo neprocjenjivo, ta ljudska sreća.

Kako birate glumce za film, a kako za seriju? Postoji li uopće razlika?

Meni je to sve isto, kazalište, film, serija. Bitna mi je energija. To su samo različiti mediji, a stvar je u tome gdje kanalizirate glavnu ideju, odnosno ono o čemu želite govoriti.

Uspijevate li izvući najviše iz glumaca?

Trudim se maksimalno. Smatram da dobivam povjerenje od njih. Imam sad već puno glumaca s kojima radim i da kažem da se sad zalete kroz ovo staklo, vjerujem da bi njih deset probilo staklo bez pitanja zašto. Pritom bi znali da to ne bi bilo neopravdano ili bi bilo iz jako loše šale, a to je već dio mojeg odnosa s njima .

Osvojili ste Grand Prix sa serijom „Područje bez signala“ na prestižnom festivalu Series Mania na kojem je prikazano više od 60 ekskluzivnih premijera serija iz cijeloga svijeta. Francuski Le Monde je seriju „Područje bez signala“ izdvojio kao jednu od pet serija koje treba pogledati. Zašto su Francuzi toliko oduševljeni serijom i tematikom? I believe that a television series should be made in the same way as a film. I don’t see any difference there

Smatram da se televizijska serija mora raditi kao film. Ne vidim tu nikakvu razliku

It’s all the same to me, theatre, film, series. It’s the energy that matters to me. These are only different mediums, it’s all about where you channel the main idea, i.e., the thing you want to talk about.

Meni je to sve isto, kazalište, film, serija. Bitna mi je energija. To su samo različiti mediji, a stvar je u tome gdje kanalizirate glavnu ideju, odnosno ono o čemu želite govoriti. They would know that what I ask was justified, unless it was a very bad joke, which can also be a part of my relationship with them .

Your series The Last Socialist Artefact won the Grand Prix at the prestigious Series Mania festival, where over 60 exclusive premiers of series from all over the world were shown. The French Le Monde singled out The Last Socialist Artefact as one of the five mustwatch series. Why are the French so thrilled with the series and its theme?

The Q&A session after the series premiere was fun. I tried to explain that the plot, which was also described in the book, referred to Southeast Europe, the East, transitional Europe, but the audience kept telling us that we were wrong. They said that everything they saw in the series has also happened in Northern France, and there have been these cases in Brazil, Mexico… actually, there are cases of the oppression of the working class, restructuring of labour as a process, and the return of factories to workers everywhere in the world. We realized that their worldview was the same as ours. This is what I always say: there are no boundaries in art. When you think you’re working on a local story, and you’re starting from that most honest type of humanism and a fight for a better society, you will find fertile ground and realize that it’s all universal, that things work that way everywhere. It’s important not to do anything for the sake of your own ego, but for the greater good. The Last Social Artefact is a story against selfishness. It is also about how much the community can help the individual.

Foreign media, for example The Economist, have written a lot about The Paper, which ended up on lists of the best series in the world and has been sold to Netflix. What’s so special about it?

It has a certain magnetism, and it does well with audiences. Our team was the first in Europe to create a creative hub with a screenwriter, producer, and director, we all worked together on that series. Everyone’s experienced, each in their own way, in journalism, social analysis, and the mechanisms of politics. It was inevitable for reality to mirror fiction, that’s what happened to us. Everything from the series started happening for real, as if we were watching our own show in real life. The audience felt that the events and situations from the show were happening around them. What was important for me was that, after The Paper came out and was included on Netflix, that this art wasn’t clownish, entertaining. We are not an entertainment industry, that’s what Hollywood is there for. We’re not here to entertain people, but to be a social corrective. For the police, politicians…., for whomever needs it. True art can and must move boundaries. True art is expected to provide an answer to the question of what kind of world we’re living in, and if anything could be better, could be improved. Difficult topics must be dealt with in a difficult way.

We can currently watch your new series, The Silence, on TV. This series, which thrilled Europe, was shown as part of one of the programmes of this year’s Berinale. News soon followed that it would become available on the HBO Europe platform. The series was enthuBilo je fora u dijelu za pitanja i odgovore s publikom nakon premijere serije. Pokušao sam im pojasniti da se radnja, koja je i u knjizi opisana, tiče jugoistočnog dijela Europe, istočne, tranzicijske Europe, ali iz publike su nam govorili da nismo u pravu. Tvrdili su da se sve ono što su vidjeli u seriji događalo na sjeveru Francuske te da takvih slučajeva ima i u Brazilu, Meksiku…, odnosno u cijelom svijetu postoje slučajevi ugnjetavanja radničke klase, restrukturiranja rada kao procesa i povratka tvornica radnicima. Shvatili smo da je njihov svjetonazor isti kao i naš. To je ono što uvijek govorim: u umjetnosti ne postoje granice. Kad misliš da radiš neku lokalnu priču, a polaziš iz one najiskrenije varijante humanizma i borbe za bolje društvo, naići ćeš na plodno tlo i shvatiti da je sve to univerzalno te da tako svugdje stvari funkcioniraju. Važno je da ne radiš ništa radi vlastitog ega, već radi općeg dobra. Serija „Područje bez signala“ je priča protiv sebičnosti. Radi se i o tome koliko zajednica može pomoći pojedincu.

Strani mediji, primjerice The Economist, puno su pisali o „Novinama“, seriji koja se našla se na top-ljestvicama najboljih svjetskih serija i prodana je Netflixu. Što je toliko posebno u njoj?

Ima neki magnetizam i dobro prolazi kod publike. Naš tim je prvi u Europi stvorio kreativni hub u kojem su scenarist, producent i redatelj, svi smo zajedno radili na toj seriji. Svi su iskusni, svatko na svoj način i u novinarstvu, analizi društva i mehanizmima politike. Neminovno je bilo da realnost počne pratiti fikciju, to se nama dogodilo. Sve iz serije se počelo događati u realnosti, kao da gledamo vlastitu seriju u realnosti. Publika je osjetila da se oko njih događaju stvari i situacije iz serije. Meni je bilo bitno, nakon što je serija „Novine“ izašla i pojavila se na Netflixu, da ta umjetnost nije klaunovska, zabavljačka. Mi nismo zabavna industrija, to je Hollywood. Mi nismo tu da zabavljamo ljude, već da budemo društveni korektiv. Policiji, političarima…, kome god treba. Prava umjetnost može i mora pomaknuti granice. Od prave umjetnosti se očekuje da ponudi odgovor na pitanje u kakvom svijetu živimo i može li štogod biti bolje, može li se popraviti. Teške teme se ne moraju raditi na težak način.

Sada imamo priliku na TV ekranima pratiti vašu novu seriju „Šutnja“, koja je oduševila Europu. Riječ je o seriji prikazanoj u sklopu jednog od programa ovogodišnjeg Berlinalea, a zatim je objavljena vijest da će uskoro stići na platformu HBO Europe. Seriju je odlično prihvatila publika u Ukrajini. Zašto ta serija tako uspješno komunicira s publikom?

Vjerujem u podjelu na dobro i zlo. Maksimalno sam se u režiji dao u to da prikažem kako dobro može pobijediti zlo. Mislim da to svatko razumije. U tome je ključ.

„Šutnja“ se temelji na istinitim događajima u Osijeku početkom 2010. Radnja je smještena u Osijek i Kijev, a bavi se problemom dječje prostitucije i trgovine bijelim robljem. Koja je glavna poruka ove serije i njezina poanta?

Htio sam poručiti da smo tihi i šutimo radi vlastitog komfora i tako dugoročno stvaramo teške ožiljke. A zapravo moramo biti glasni kad nešto ne štima. Kao društvo smo naučili pognuti glavu i gledati u pod,

siastically received by the audience in Ukraine. Why does this series communicate with the audience so successfully?

I believe in the battle between good and evil. When I was directing, I did my best to depict how good can overcome evil. I think that everyone understands this. That’s the key.

The Silence is based on true events which took place in Osijek at the beginning of 2010. The plot takes place in Osijek and Kyiv, and it deals with the issue of child prostitution and human trafficking. What is the main message of this series and its meaning? umjesto da se pobunimo i dignemo glas kad vidimo da se oko nas nešto loše događa. Kad puno ljudi istovremeno osudi ono što je loše, tada društvo postaje bolje.

Što vas je motiviralo da počnete snimati tu seriju?

Tema. Nije se smjelo šutjeti o tome. Nije se to smjelo zataškati, a nikoga zapravo nije bilo briga za te djevojke. Njihovi životi su nepovratno uništeni. A nitko nema čak ni poštovanje prema njihovim teškim sudbinama. Za seriju me je motivirao bunt prema tome, kakav je imao i Hedl kad je otkrivao i pisao članke i knjigu. Osim toga, Slavonija i Ukrajina su mjesta u

One of the Ukrainian actresses has just arrived in Zagreb to get away from the horror of war in the Ukraine for a little while

Jedna je ukrajinska glumica baš došla u Zagreb da se malo makne od tog užasa rata koji je trenutačno u Ukrajini

The Last Socialist Artefact is a series that is very difficult to retell, describe, but when people see it, everyone falls in love with

„Područje bez signala“ je serija koju je jako teško nekome ispričati, predstaviti, ali kad je vide, svi se u nju zaljube My intended message was that we stay silent and keep quiet for the sake of our own comfort, and in that way, we create deep scars in the long term. Actually, we should be loud when something isn’t right. As a society we’ve learnt to keep our heads down and burry them in the sand instead of rising up and raising our voices when we see that something bad is happening around us. When many people condemn something bad at the same time, the society is improved.

What motivated you to start making this series?

The theme. People shouldn’t have stayed silent about this. It shouldn’t have been swept under the carpet, and nobody really cared about these girls. Their lives were irreversibly destroyed. And there’s no respect for their cruel fates. My motivation was an act of rebellion against this, something that Hedl felt when he did the research and wrote the articles and the book. Apart from that, Slavonia and the Ukraine are wonderful places to work in. I’m proud to have worked in Kyiv with Ukrainian actors.

Are you in contact with Ukrainian colleagues?

Yes. One of the Ukrainian actresses has just arrived in Zagreb to get away from the horror of war in the Ukraine for a little while.

The Silence is a crime drama. How did venture into this genre?

The Last Socialist Artefact is a series that is very difficult to retell, describe, but when people see it, everyone falls in love with it. And The Silence is a genre that everyone’s familiar with, everyone watches crime dramas. My intention was to create a code of my own, along the lines of some Asian directors, e.g., Joon-ho Bong, who made The Parasite. Ultimately, people liked this style – a crime drama, but with a slightly different angle.

You don’t shy away from difficult and harrowing topics. I believe people are a little scared of you when you start digging up topics which had been covered up. What reactions have you come upon? Have you had any unpleasant experiences when you started shooting The Silence?

Some local media didn’t want to write about the fact that something is being filmed in their town. There were obviously some things that made some people feel scared. People wanted to sweep a lot of this under the carpet, even earlier, when the newspaper articles came out and later, when Drago Hedl’s book was published. A lot of this was shocking at the beginning and then, after a week, it would all disappear. Evil had occurred, and we were not there to film a documentary about whose fault it was, but to point out the evil and try to prevent such or similar crimes happening again somewhere else. I saw the relief in eyes of people who were covering it up when they realized that no names were named in the series.

Which actors thrilled you the most in the series? Jeste li u kontaktu s ukrajinskim kolegama?

Jesam. Jedna je ukrajinska glumica baš došla u Zagreb da se malo makne od tog užasa rata koji je trenutačno u Ukrajini.

„Šutnja“ je krimić. Kako ste se odvažili na zaokret prema tome žanru?

„Područje bez signala“ je serija koju je jako teško nekome ispričati, predstaviti, ali kad je vide, svi se u nju zaljube. A „Šutnja“ je žanr koji svi znaju, svi gledaju krimiće. Namjeravao sam napraviti neki svoj kôd po azijskim uzorima, npr. Joon-ho Bonga koji je napravio „Parazita“. Na kraju se ljudima svidio taj stil – krimić, ali iz malo drugačijeg kuta gledanja.

Ne ustručavate se doticati teške i mučne teme. Vjerujem da vas se malo i pribojavaju kad počnete doticati zataškane teme. Na kakve ste reakcije nailazili? Jeste li imali i neugodna iskustva kad ste počeli snimati seriju „Šutnja“?

Neki lokalni mediji nisu htjeli pisati o tome da se nešto snima u njihovom gradu. Bilo je očito nekih stvari zbog kojih je neke ljude bilo strah. Htjelo se dosta toga zataškati, čak i ranije, kad su izlazili novinski članci o tome i kasnije, kad je izašla knjiga Drage Hedla. Sve je to u početku bilo šokantno i zatim bi nakon tjedan dana sve nestalo. Zlo se dogodilo, a mi nismo došli tamo da radimo dokumentarac o tome tko je kriv, već da ukažemo na to zlo i pokušamo spriječiti da se takav ili sličan zločin opet ponovi negdje drugdje. Vidio sam olakšanje na ljudima koji su to zataškavali, kad su shvatili da se u seriji ne spominju imena.

Koji glumci su vas najviše oduševili u toj seriji?

Zlatko Burić je bio briljantan. On je velika zvijezda, velik čovjek, glumac i umjetnik, ali i veliki Slavonac. Bilo mu je super vratiti se u rodni kraj i tamo snimati. Goran Bogdan je bio odličan, puno je napredovao i postaje veliki glumac. Moram spomenuti i ukrajinske glumce, na primjer, Kseniyju Mishynu koja je u Ukrajini velika zvijezda. Kad je riječ o dobrim glumcima, svi se lako prilagode i vrlo brzo snađu.

S kojim našim glumcima i glumicama još niste surađivali, a voljeli biste?

Još nisam surađivao s nekim glumcima iz regije s kojima bih volio surađivati. U seriji „Područje bez signala“ granice se država brišu. Na primjer, Jovana Stojiljković danas može glumiti u našim serijama i drago mi je da više nema tih zidova. Ima još glumaca s kojima bih volio raditi, ali manje razmišljam o glumcima, a više o idejama.

Bavite se humanističkim temama. Društveno ste angažirani. Nije vas strah zalaziti u škakljiva područja, otvarati zataškane teme, a ponekad i provocirati publiku. Je li provokacija dobra, što njome želite postići?

was happy to return to his roots and film there. Goran Bogdan was excellent, he has made a lot of progress and he’s becoming a great actor. I must also mention the Ukrainian actors, for example, Kseniya Mishyna, who is a big star in the Ukraine. Good actors adapt easily and find their way around quickly.

Are there any Croatian actors and actresses that you haven’t collaborated with yet, and you would like to?

I haven’t collaborated with some regional actors who I would like to collaborate with. In the series The Last Socialist Artefact, the borders between countries are erased. For example, the Serbian actress Jovana Sojiljković can be in a Croatian series nowadays, and I’m happy that there such walls don’t exist anymore. There are more actors I would love to work with, but I think less about actors, and more about ideas.

You deal with humanistic themes. You are socially engaged. You’re not afraid of delving into thorny issues, opening up topics that had been covered up, and even provoking the audience sometimes. Is provocation good, what are you trying to achieve with it?

If society becomes a little complacent, it transforms into a great mass which needs a pinch to get moving. In that case, a little provocation makes sense. Many great authors use provocation. If you can achieve the same effect in a nice, calm way, I’m all for it. And if the aim of the provocation is to improve society, I’m all for that, too. Provocation for the sake of provocation is idiocy.

Which foreign director do you regard highly, do you have role models?

There are many genius directors: Michael Haneke, Federico Fellini, Paul Thomas Anderson, the Coen brothers. There are many directors who know what they’re doing and everything they do is brilliant. They’re my role models, and on the other hand, I also learn from people who make mistakes. That’s why I watch “trash”, as well as excellent stuff.

What are the main qualities of top directors?

Love for people, love for life. From this love, great things are born. If you’re working for the sake of your ego, you can’t create beautiful things, that’s never a good thing.

Is there anything you would refuse to make, something you can’t see yourself doing? Do you like “entertaining” movies, ones that don’t engage the audience, don’t make them think?

I would refuse to make a teen comedy with a happy ending, the likes of which we’ve seen a thousand times. Actually, anything with the sole purpose to entertain. I’ve refused such projects. I can’t make something that’s predictable. On the other hand, the series Euphoria, for example, turned this inside out, and the result was brilliant. That means that all topics, even seemingly superficial ones, can be dealt with differently, and made not to be shallow or superficial. The question is whether we seek to affirm ourselves or we are just thinking about profit. Ako se društvo malo uljulja, pretvori se u jednu veliku masu koju treba malo štipnuti da se pokrene. Tada mala provokacija ima smisla. Mnogo se velikih autora služi provokacijama. Ako se to može postići lijepim, mirnim načinom, uvijek sam za to. I ako je cilj provokacije da društvo postane bolje, slažem se i s tim načinom. Provokacija radi provokacije je glupost.

Kojeg stranog redatelja cijenite, imate li uzore?

Ima mnogo genijalnih: Michael Haneke, Federico Fellini, Paul Thomas Anderson, braća Coen. Ima jako puno redatelja koji znaju raditi i sve što rade je genijalno. Oni su mi uzor, a s druge strane, učim i od ljudi koji rade greške. Zato gledam i „smeće”, ali i odlične stvari.

Koje su glavne osobine vrhunskih redatelja?

Ljubav prema ljudima, ljubav prema životu. Iz te se ljubavi rađaju velike stvari. Ako radiš radi ega, ne stvaraju se lijepe stvari, to nikad nije dobro.

Ima li nešto što biste odbili snimati, u što se nikako ne biste upuštali? Volite li „zabavljačke“ filmove u kojima publika nije angažirana i ne mora razmišljati?

Odbio bih snimiti neku tinejdžersku komediju koja ima happy end koji smo gledali tisuću puta. Zapravo, sve te stvari koje služe isključivo zabavi. Odbijao sam takve projekte. Ne mogu snimati nešto što je predvidivo. S druge strane, za primjer bih naveo seriju „Euforija“ koja je sve to izvrnula i gledali smo genijalan rezultat. Dakle, sve teme, pa i naizgled površne, mogu se napraviti drugačije, da ne budu plitke i površne. Pitanje je hoćemo li se potvrditi ili samo razmišljamo o zaradi.

Kako birate teme? Tražite li ili vam same dođu?

To ide nekako ukrug. Dođu same, tražim, ali služim se najviše svojim instinktima prilikom biranja tema. Služim se instinktima u svemu što radim. Uvijek snimatelju kažem da zažmiri dok snima, da idemo po osjećaju, iznutra, kao u nekom plesu, nekoj ljubavi. Tako mi dolaze i teme.

U kojem biste se žanru još voljeli okušati?

Volio bih raditi SF. Volim i horore, oni su moja prva ljubav, ali ih lagano doziram. I komedije i satire su zanimljive, ali su moje šale loše i nezrele.

Jeste li redatelj 24 sata, razmišljate li stalno o poslu, čak i kad ne radite? Isključujete li se kad dođete kući, svojoj obitelji?

Pokušavam napraviti switch, ali mnogo mi ljudi ukazuje na to da ne budem redatelj od 0 do 24, da ne režiram stalno . Pokušavam ne režirati stalno.

Vidite li sebe kao profesora na Akademiji?

Na Akademiji sam imao samo dva profesora koji su bili dobri. Stalno sam u pregovorima da dođem predavati na Akademiju. Polako dolazi vrijeme za to. Volio bih tim novim klincima prenijeti ljubav prema There are many directors who know what they’re doing and everything they do is brilliant. They’re my role models, and on the other hand, I also learn from people who make mistakes. That’s why I watch “trash”, as well as excellent stuff.

Ima jako puno redatelja koji znaju raditi i sve što rade je genijalno. Oni su mi uzor, a s druge strane, učim i od ljudi koji rade greške. Zato gledam i „smeće”, ali i odlične stvari.

I’d like to make an SF movie. I also love horrors, they’re my first love, but I serve them in small doses. Comedies and satires are also interesting, but my jokes are bad and immature.

Volio bih raditi SF. Volim i horore, oni su moja prva ljubav, ali ih lagano doziram. I komedije i satire su zanimljive, ali su moje šale loše i nezrele It kind of goes in a circle. They come on their own, I look for them, but mostly, I use my instincts when choosing topics. I use my instincts in everything I do. I always tell the cameraman to close their eyes when shooting, so we can go with our guts, from the inside, as in a dance, as in love. That’s how themes come to me, too.

Which other genre would you like to try your hand at?

I’d like to make an SF movie. I also love horrors, they’re my first love, but I serve them in small doses. Comedies and satires are also interesting, but my jokes are bad and immature.

Are you a director 24-7, are you always thinking about work, even when you’re not working? Do you switch yourself off when you come home, to your family?

I try to make that switch, but many people still have to warn me not to direct 24-7, all day long . I try not to do it all the time.

Do you see yourself teaching at the Academy?

I only had two professors at the Academy who were good. I’m constantly in negotiations to start teaching at the Academy. The time for this is slowly coming. I would like to transmit my love for directing to these new kids. If they have a smartphone, they can make a film which will win all festival awards. They need to be encouraged, given real guidelines and wind at their backs. Which is the opposite of my experience at the Academy of Dramatic Arts.

You’re married to an actress. What do you think of mixing love and work? redateljskom poslu. Ako imaju mobitel, mogu snimiti film koji će pobijediti na svim festivalima. Treba ih hrabriti, dati im prave smjernice i vjetar u leđa. Suprotno mojem iskustvu na ADU.

My wife is very familiar with aspects of directing, and she nicely and kindly asks me to leave directing where it belongs, on set. I think the moment is coming for us to work together again, at the theatre.

You have three children. Are any of them going to follow in your footsteps, do you see any potential?

I see more than that in them. There are some indications that they could act, some of them direct, but what I want for them is to be ten times better than us. And yes, all three of them have film names: Lola, Max, and Neo.

You’ve also filmed at the Esplanade Zagreb Hotel several times. U braku ste s glumicom. Kako gledate na spajanje ljubavi i posla?

Moja žena dobro poznaje elemente režije i ona me lijepo i ljubazno zamoli da režiju ostavim tamo gdje joj je mjesto, odnosno na setu. Mislim da se bliži trenutak kad ćemo ponovno raditi zajedno, i to u kazalištu.

Imate troje djece. Hoće li netko od njih krenuti vašim stopama, vidite li potencijal?

Vidim u njima i više od toga. Ima nekih naznaka da bi mogli glumiti, neki režirati, ali njima želim da budu deset puta bolji od nas. I da, svi troje imaju filmska imena: Lola, Max i Neo.

I’ve filmed several prestigious commercials at the Esplanade Hotel, and I can say that to all filmmakers, including myself, this hotel will always be synonymous with elegance, comfort, and the special identity of Zagreb. Every time I enter this hotel jewel with a camera, these attributes make me feel right at home. Snimali ste nekoliko puta i kod nas u hotelu Esplanade Zagreb.

Snimao sam nekoliko prestižnih reklamnih spotova u hotelu Esplanade i mogu reći da će svim filmašima, pa tako i meni, ovaj hotel uvijek biti sinonim za eleganciju, komfor i posebni identitet Zagreba. Svaki put kad uđem s kamerom u taj hotelski dragulj, upravo se zbog tih atributa osjećam kao kod kuće.