is the sound of a gavel’

Judge John Hodgman dispenses ‘fake internet justice’ at Gothic Theatre podcast live show

by Jezy J. Gray

Gilly had beef with her husband Steve. The conflict rested on a wrinkle the Denver couple couldn’t quite iron out: Should the city’s historic University Hills neighborhood, where the pair had recently purchased their first home, be considered the suburbs?

Steve emphatically said no. The Denver native takes great pride in his hometown and hated the idea of dissolving into what he considered the beige sameness of suburbia. Gilly underscored the fact that University Hills was not part of the city’s original urban grid, submitting photos of the neighborhood’s matching 1950s tract homes as evidence for her case.

Enter the honorable Judge John Hodgman. Over the course of an hour, the author, comedian and actor dutifully heard arguments from both sides in “Contempt of Carport,” a 2019 episode of his titular faux-courtroom comedy podcast. Per usual, his verdict delicately walked a hilarious and heartfelt line between tongue-in-cheek scolding and genuine insight.

“I can’t help but say this is a suburb. Historically, it’s a suburb. By looks, it’s a suburb,” Hodgman ruled. “But I am glad to say that suburban neighborhoods are not the horror shows [Steve imagines] them to be. … Culturally, the suburbs you hate are more in your mind than the world you live in.”

Such Judge John Hodgman disputes regularly include color commentary and litigant interviews from his trusted bailiff Jesse Thorn, a podcasting legend in his own right, along with occasional wisdom from a celebrity “expert witness.” Together the pair have been dispensing “fake internet justice” since 2010, when the show spun off from its origins as a recurring segment on Thorn’s long-running free-form comedy podcast, Jordan, Jesse, Go! distributed by his artist-owned, listener-supported Maximum Fun network.

“The fundamental qualities of a good Judge John Hodgman dispute are: It has to be real. It has to have stakes. It can't be so intense as to be a bummer,” says Thorn, whose NPR interview show Bullseye was the first public radio program west of the Mississippi to podcast. “It has to have real love behind it, real care behind it — and ideally, it involves someone doing something really weird.”

But Hodgman’s bonafides go beyond fake courtrooms. He’s most recently the co-creator with David Rees of the FXX animated series Dicktown, and the author of half a dozen books — like the satirical almanac More Information Than You Require, and recent memoirs Vacationland and Medallion Status. Readers over the age of 30 might also recognize Hodgman from his regular stint as the

“deranged millionaire” correspondent on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, or perhaps his appearances opposite Justin Long in a series of mid-2000s Apple commercials.

Ahead of the pair’s upcoming performance at the Gothic Theatre in Englewood, Boulder Weekly sat down with Hodgman and Thorn over Zoom to talk about the history of the show and what attendees can expect from the Feb. 2 serving of “live justice” — plus Hodgman’s favorite hobby store in Boulder, conspiracy theories surrounding Denver International Airport and more.

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I spoke with Travis McElroy [of My Brother, My Brother and Me] a couple months back to promote their Denver show [postponed to April 29]. So before we get started, can we establish Boulder Weekly as the official alternative newspaper of the MaxFun podcast network?

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, San Francisco Bay Guardian is out of business. You’re in.

John Hodgman: Absolutely. Eat it, Chicago Reader! Actually, don’t eat it. We need all of you.

Thorn: Oh, I just remembered. I already gave the official alternative newspaper designation to Computer Currents. So unless you have listings for used computer parts in your classifieds …

We lose another one to Computer Currents.

Hodgman: This is all on the record, by the way. Best material you're gonna get out of the whole article.

This is your first time bringing the show to Denver. Have either of you spent much time here before?

Thorn: I went to a public radio program directors conference in Denver, and we all went to a Rockies game. If you’ve ever wanted to take in a sporting event with a group of 200 people who have nothing but contempt for sports, I recommend going to a Rockies game with people from the public radio program directors conference.

Hodgman: I was in Denver in spring of last year to talk to Jeff Tweedy [of the band Wilco] on stage, which was a lot of fun. And I also got to go to Convergence Station, the outpost of the Meow Wolf art installation empire, which I loved a lot. I also went to Boulder for the very first time last spring as well. I discovered that the Pearl Street Mall is the home of Liberty Puzzles HQ, my favorite jigsaw puzzle maker in the world. I had no idea. I just turned around and there it was. That really made me very excited. And basically right across the street from there is a food hall where I bought an arepa from a young woman who was a big Judge John Hodgman fan, who I hope will come to the show.

And I know you have something of an obsession with Denver International Airport, right?

Hodgman: Well, I'm concerned for our country and our reality. Because the Denver International Airport is obviously up to something, as many people before me have observed. It is a very large airport on a very large parcel of land that is otherwise uninhabited. It has many, many sub basements — more than an airport usually needs — and a lot of very weird and creepy murals depicting a post-apocalyptic environment. So I want to know what's going on down below there. I think above, it’s basically what you would call an airport: welcoming planes that are arriving and saying goodbye to planes that are going to other places on this earth. I think below, transdimensional travel is likely for our interdimensional overlords.

Have you already begun selecting cases for the Denver show on Feb. 2? Any themes emerging?

Thorn: I can tell you right now we have two submissions from two different sets of people about the exact same thing, which is: “Can a dog's paws be considered hands?”

Hodgman: That's from two different sets of people?

Thorn: Yeah.

It's a hot topic out here.

Hodgman: I mean, this really does conform to my personal stereotype of what a Coloradan is doing all day long, which is obviously eating a lot of edibles and then staring at their dog and coming up with theories.

Speaking of cases: What are you looking for when it comes to disputes, and what kind of stuff do you try to stay away from?

Thorn: It has to be real.