Meng Huang “And What do You Think? Landscapes”

孟煌

你说呢？风景

你说呢 ? 风景

And What do You Think? Landscapes 2008

Meng Huang

Meng Huang And What do You Think? Landscapes

孟煌

目 录

CONTENTS

我，咱们 兼谈人在中国的生存技巧 乐大豆、孟煌

I, we Or a conversation on survival techniques in China Davide Quadrio and Meng Huang

4

孟煌 ——《你说呢? 风景》 箫岭

Meng Huang – “And What do You Think? Landscapes” Nataline Colonnello

16

孟煌、蒋震宇访谈 孟煌、蒋震宇、何适

Meng Huang Interview with Jiang Zhenyu

本画册为孟煌个展“你说呢？风景”而出版 2008年9月6日至10月26日展出于中国北京麦勒画廊 北京-卢森 This catalogue was published on the occasion of Meng Huang’s solo exhibition: And What do You Think? Landscapes at Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing - Lucerne, Beijing, China, from September 6 to October 26, 2008

感谢： Irène Christen、箫岭、莫妮卡·德玛黛、蒋震宇、李建辉、李伟力、René Meile、乌斯·麦勒、里柯、乐大豆、申彤、施坦丁、苏晓琴

Acknowledgements: Irène Christen, Nataline Colonnello, Monica Dematté, Jiang Zhenyu, Li Jianhui, Li Weili, René Meile, Urs Meile, Enrico Polato, Davide Quadrio, Anya Shen, Shi Tanding, Su Xiaoqin

Meng Huang, Jiang Zhenyu and He Shi

20

简历 Biography

44

出版文献 Publications

46

版权 Copyright

48

我，咱们 兼谈人在中国的生存技巧

I, we Or a conversation on survival techniques in China 1

1

乐大豆、孟煌

Davide Quadrio and Meng Huang

“让我们为纪念戴汉志（Hans Van Dijk）而举杯。 他若是还在世，当代艺术的境况肯定会大不同。”

“Let’s toast to Hans Van Dijk. Contemporary art would be different if he was still alive”.2

—— 摘自与张伟、孟煌和王书刚的谈话

这篇文章取材于孟煌前几年同我讲的一些故事。作为多年的朋友，我们经常促膝长谈，他一 直很乐意和我分享各种趣闻轶事，也会向我倾诉他和他朋友生活中的点滴体会。从他的叙述中， 我能体会到这位分居于北京和柏林两地，利用生活的大部分时间在中国搞创作的艺术家的想象力 和挫败感。

This text is inspired by the many stories that Meng Huang has eagerly shared with me through conversations over the last few years. He confided bits and pieces of his life and the lives of his friends to me, sketching out an imaginative and at times frustrating portrait of an artist who works mainly in China but lives between Beijing and Berlin.

虽然孟煌不觉得自己的生活是一种“流亡”式的生活，我从他的情感里却能感受到他那种与 过着类似“跨国”生活的人一样的东西。和他的交谈中，我能感觉到他有一种因背井离乡而不满 的情绪：这映证了一种常见的身份危机，也是他对中国和中国“文化”感到相当悲观和宿命的一 种体现。

While he does not consider his life as a life in exile (liuwang), I do recognise commonalities between his experience and the experiences of others living under similar “transnational” conditions. Often, our conversations revealed the same sense of displacement and dissatisfaction, a fairly common identity crisis that accounts for his particularly pessimistic yet fatalistic attitude towards China and what Chinese “culture” stands for.

我们有过最长的一次谈话进行了将近一天一夜，那次谈话让我认识了另外两位艺术家：张伟 和王书刚。当时，我们聊了一个极其复杂的话题：中国的个人和集体身份。我们分析了单数对复 数，个人对集体；以及个人仅仅作为“集体”的一部分“存在”的关系。这次讨论令人不安，却 发人深省。我们发现，这种关系为中国人所普遍接受，中国的艺术家、作家和知识分子一直在讨 论这种关系，此外，中国政府也会经常鼓吹这种观念，意图推动社会凝聚力和政治稳定：这代表 了中国构建和谐社会的梦想；并在很多宣传活动中，包括最近迎奥运的宣传，都强调要保证集体 的“平安”2。 下面你将看到的是一个虚构的谈话，我塑造了两个人物来探讨这样一种传统的关系。人物包 括：代表个人的“我”，取名“傻”，他基本上代表了孟煌、孟煌在他的油画作品中描绘的一个朋 友（蒋震宇），还有我自己的三个人的混合体。辩论的另一方是集体的、有强烈保护意识的“我 们”，代表权力玩家（包括政客、艺术收藏家和投资者）的混合体。我把对话中的“我们”命名 为“咱们” （“我们”这个词的另一种表达方式） 。 这个虚构的谈话构建在一个具有潜在戏剧性的剧本创作理论上，这也让我感到困惑和不安， 因为不论让我站在“傻”或是“咱们” （齐声）的立场上都是很困难的，有时候这对我来说甚至是 不现实的。我虽然在中国呆了这么多年，也熟悉这些互相对立的话题，但我还是觉得力不从心。 不过我想尝试用较全面的方式来对待这个话题，试图能做出个透彻的批评分析。 4

Our longest conversation lasted nearly 24 consecutive hours, during which I met two other artists, Zhang Wei and Wang Shugang. Our conversation touched on the particularly complex issue of personal and collective identities in China, including a disconcerting yet provocative analysis of the individual versus the collective: the individual “exists” only as part of the “collective”. This notion of the individual–the Chinese dream of a harmonious civilisation–is commonly accepted by Chinese people, often advocated by the Government for purposes of securing social cohesion and political stability and analysed by artists, writers and intellectuals. The slogans of various communist campaigns, including recent ones for the Olympic games, all stress the need to realise a collective Utopia, or ping’an.3 In the following fictional dialogue, two characters debate this age-old relationship between the individual and the collective. The character named Sha, which means “stupid” in Chinese, represents the individual “I” and can be seen as a composite of Meng Huang, Jiang Zhenyu (one of Meng Huang’s friends and the subject of several of his paintings) and myself. The chorus named Zanmen, or the inclusive “we” in Chinese, represents the collective and protective masses and is a composite of authoritative figures in Chinese society, such as politicians, art collectors and investors.

The highly theatrical nature of the following fictional dialogue leaves me with a sense of bewilderment and anxiety, since it seems difficult and even unrealistic to identify wholly with either Sha or Zanmen. Even after so many years of dealing with these contradictory topics in China, I remain 5

首先，我要强调一下，下文对话中的一些话语和观念可能会被视为仇外、反华甚至种族主 义，但是这都是前人（大部分是中国的知识分子）说过的内容，也不一定代表我自己的观点。然 而，我认为时不时地翻翻故纸堆，有胆量炮制一场公共辩论比写一些千人一面、看似高人一等的 文字要有意义些。 在简单介绍了我创作的思维框架之后，剩下的任务就是让你自己来阅读这个虚构的对话。 请注意，这个讨论仅描绘某种可能的情况，表现了一小部分中国及非中国的知识分子的不安。其 实，基于中国艺术界目前的情况，这些想法目前几乎无价值可言。

我

咱们/（齐声）

trapped by a sense of inadequateness combined with an all-encompassing desire for the catharsis of in-depth critical analysis.

I am wary of the possibility that some of the following content may be read as xenophobic, antiChinese or even racist, but I want to emphasise that what I write here is based on actual conversation, mostly between Chinese intellectuals, and does not necessarily reflect my own point-of-view.

Nevertheless, I believe in some cases, it is important to bring back the dead, so to speak, as a means to challenge and incite public debate beyond over-simplified and condescending rhetoric even at the risk of offending.

Before concluding this brief background and introductory remark regarding the following dialogue, I want once more to reiterate that this dialogue represents just one possible thread of the current unease expressed by a small group of Chinese and non-Chinese intellectuals. Given this set of very real disclaimers and the current situation in the art world in China, the value of the reflections contained in the dialogue may very well amount to nothing.

I

We /chorus

My name is Sha, I live in a place that is unrecognisable to me. I go out in the morning and walk my way to school. I walk on a rutted road with holes and garbage lying all around. I pass by inactive industrial complexes, with no people around. These buildings are sitting there, like cathedrals of the desert land. Towers of silence, the end of beauty.

The teacher arises, rigid in his suite: Our culture is the best possible.

We are because we are “together”.

School, friends—they all just pass by, yet I do not know how to react to them. I live and observe and try to find a possible language for what I experience. 孟煌,《国际脸三》2003, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm Meng Huang, "International Face No. 3" 2003, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

Listen to our words of wisdom, the only possible survival for us is to be together, together… (laughter)

孟煌,《国际脸三》2007, 布面油画, 279 x 184 cm Meng Huang, "International Face No. 3" 2007, oil on canvas, 279 x 184 cm

I am not shy though, I am a sociable person.

I love talking and seek to answer fundamental questions about my life, questions that linger and leave the people I talk to perplexed and disturbed. They usually turn their back on me and go away. I cannot finish my sentences. I shut my mouth, in fury.

我叫傻。我住的地方连我自己也认不出来。 每天早上我从家里走到学校。我走的是一条 遍布车辙的道路，上面坑坑洼洼，堆满垃 圾。我还会路过荒废的工业区，周围早已杳 无人烟，只有一些建筑物静静地矗立在那

Together simply to use each other, simply for my (ultimate) personal good.

里，就像沙漠里的大教堂。寂静之塔，美丽 的终结。

教师站了起来，穿着呆板的套装： “咱们的文化是最优秀的文化， 因为咱们总是‘抱成一团’。” 6

I get easily excited. I am lighthearted and I do not care about what I just said. I feel the need to be naked often. I toss my clothes on the floor, trying to show the real me (behind this curtain of rhetorical discourse). I want to be perceived 7

学校，朋友，他们只是从我身边走过，我不

as I am, this mass of cells, this animal I was created to be.

知道如何和他们打交道。我一直在观察，想

This culture has always been in a coil, lacking the light of wisdom that guides individuals forward (they say).

要为我的体验找到一种解释。

倾听咱们的箴言吧，咱们生存的唯一可能就 是在一起，在一起（笑）。 但是我并不害羞，我挺愿意和人打交道。我

This is the only way I know. This is why I am demented and a poet. I am an artist by choice, and this is my ultimate freedom.4 In adulthood, I began to create my world of private landscapes.

(The camera lens moves up ever-so slightly, shifting downwards by ten degrees—yes, that is the perfect, individual spot from which I view the world I live.)

喜欢和人交谈，想要找到生活中那些根本问 题的答案。这些问题一直萦绕在我脑海里。 我问过人，而他们只会流露出疑惑和不安的 表情。他们通常不回答我的问题，而是转身 就走。我连一句话都没法说完。我紧闭双 唇，感到愤怒。

We flow like a river, we invade the world. We do not need to answer any questions about us.5

在一起只为了互相利用，只为了我自己（最 终的）利益。

My house is in a provincial place. Abandoned structures, places with no escape. My reality is visions of devastation, infernal perspectives.

我很容易变得很激动和开心。我不会理会我 刚刚说了什么话。我喜欢时不时地赤身裸 体，我把衣服都扔在地板上，想要展现出真

We are beyond that. We cry indignantly only at the harm that is inflicted upon us. We shed tears for the “us” who suffer, this collective “we” that requires ritual acknowlegement of our (rare) misery.

正的我（透过修饰性的帷幔）。我希望人们了 解我的本来面目，亿万细胞组成的生命，我 被创造成这样的生物。

这个文化一直在自我重复， 从未有那让个体走向前台的智慧光芒， （他们说）。 这是我唯一的出路。这就是为什么我是个发狂

咱们不需要这样，咱们不需要，

的诗人。我选择做艺术家，这是我最终的自由 。

咱们就是这样，咱们除了大大的“咱们”其

在成长的过程中，我开始将自己世界中的风景记

它什么都不需要，所以咱们是最强的。

3

We do not need that, we do not. We are who we are, we do not need anything but this big WE. This is why we are the strongest.

I see only black and white, light and shadow; impossible clouds, patterns of discontent. Sometimes I look at them (painting being my only vocation) and hope these images will be seen and coloured up by the imaginations of the people who see them: this is the poetry of imagination, the final touch that will transform my paintings into living poems.

These graceful acts do not belong to us. Forget about what you are saying. It is false.

录下来（就像一部相机缓缓的向上移，然后往下 转10度，就这样，这是一个完美的个人踞点用来 俯瞰这个我居住的世界）。

咱们像河流一样前行，咱们占领整个世界。

My poetry is nothing but abstracted gestures of my intellectual quest for answers… to what? Simple, existential questions about life and death.

We live in a utopia where symbols need not possess deeper meaning; we create our rules for success, our definitions for what achievement is.

咱们不需要回答任何关于我们的问题。 （毛泽东曾和尼克松说过“这些政治问题不 是我权职内该讨论的。应该与周总理讨论。 我讨论哲学问题。 ”5）

My life is simple. I am floating along its surface.

Nothing happens. I feel protected.

我的房子坐落在乡间，到处都是久无人烟的建 筑，这些地方让人无处可逃。 我的世界到处都是劫后余迹，地狱般的景象。

咱们比那个要好的多。 只有咱们都受到了伤害， “咱们”才会呼喊和落 泪，这也是“咱们”这个集体仪式性的（少有

Unexpectedly, I am robbed of all my possessions, my art. My imagination is taken away and I need a ritual gesture to heal from this painful loss: I burn my white papers6 on the terrace of my studio (leaning over the city). I stare as they turn to ash (paralysed).

Idealism? Is it necessary? We need money, not art.

的）表达痛苦的行为。 我能看到的只有黑色和白色、光和影、怪异 的云和各种不满的图式。有时候我看着它们

It is forever lost. I cannot recall my identity anymore, and I need to eat meat (meat).

（绘画是我唯一的职业），希望这些图景被 人们看见，被那些观众用自己的想象力添加 色彩。这就是想象的诗意所在，一旦有了想 8

I switch landscapes but again, I find myself without opportunities, in a small house, outside the

This is our God, this is what we are designed for.

Look at our place, look at the symbols of power, 9

象，我的画就会变成充满生命的诗篇。

这些优雅的行为不是我们的做法。 忘了你所说的话吧。

city, distant, alone. I move my hands, searching for the final (necessary/unnecessary) gestures, hands of creation.

look at the ruyi 7 we have in our hands and at this expensive painted wall; look at the allegory of our power– even artists obey and worship us.

这是不真实的。 我的诗仅仅是我寻找答案的旅途中抽象的表 示。什么问题的答案？很简单、有关存在的 生和死的问题。

咱们住在这个乌托邦中，所有的符号都不需 要再深究。咱们为“成功”设立了自己的准 则，咱们为“成就”下了自己的定义。 我的生活很简单，我漂浮在生活的表面。没 有任何事情发生。我感觉受到了保护。 艾未未,《如意- 5》2006, 瓷, 77 x 23 x 15 cm Ai Weiwei, "Ruyi No. 5" 2006, porcelain, 77 x 23 x 15 cm

出乎意料的，有人抢走了我所有的东西，我 的艺术。我所有的想象力也被夺走，我需要 一个仪式从这让人痛心的遭遇中恢复过来： 我在（俯瞰城市的）画室阳台上焚烧白纸。 我盯着它们化为灰烬（麻木） 。

理想主义？有人要吗？咱们要钱，不要艺术。 我永远失去它了，我再也记不得我自己的身 份。我要吃肉（肉） 。 我改变了风景。再一次，我发现自己失去了所有

这就是我们的神。这是我们被创造出来的目

机会，在城市之外的一间小屋里，远离尘嚣，独

的。看看我们的地方，看看权力的符号，看看

处一室。我挥动双手，寻找我最后的（必要的 /

我们手中这个如意，看看这座富丽堂皇的彩色

不必要的）姿势，用我的创造之手。

墙壁，看看我们权力的象征，甚至艺术家也要

李占洋, 洗脚（局部） 《“租”——收租院》2007, 丽徽亚.葛娜斯、艾未未, 环氧树脂 Li Zhanyang, Foot Washing (detail) "'Rent' - Rent Collection Yard" 2007, Livia Gnos, Ai Weiwei, resin

服从我们，敬仰我们。他们从我们的唇边吸取 一滴滴的美酒，他们很喜欢呆在我们的身边。 “你们的艺术作品有什么意义？”

They suck the drops of wine from our lips and they enjoy our company.

咱们回答“没有。 ”

“What does your artwork mean”?

我答道： “你有没有问过自己，生活的意义何

We answer: “Never mind”.

在？”从来没有过。那你为什么会问一些被康

I answer: “Does one ask oneself to explain the meaning of his or her own life? Never, so why do you ask the meaning of something that is a Kantian nihilism”?

德称为“虚无”的事情的意义？ 我的艺术就像莱纳 · 玛利亚 · 里尔克所说： “请你走向内心。探索那让你写作的缘由，考

还是来抚摸玉龟吧

察它的根是不是盘在你心的深处。你要坦白承

在这个龙雕灯的影子下阅读

认，万一不允许你写作，你是不是必得因此而死

我的乌托邦的美丽

去。这是最重要的：在最夜深人静的时刻问问

是它的过去、现在和未来

自己，我必须写吗？你要在内心深处找到答复。 若是答案是肯定的，你也能够以一种坚强、单纯

咱们只需要这些，你很幸运，因为

的‘我必须’来回答这个严肃问题，那么，你就

你能和咱们同处一室，

根据这个需要去构建你的生活吧，直到你生活

再走近一点，把你的头靠在我的肩上。

中最寻常最细琐的时刻，都必须是这个创作冲 动的标志和证明。”4 10

一切都好。

What is my art if not what Rainer Maria Rilke says: “Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: must I write? Dig into yourself for a deep answer. And if this answer rings out in assent, if you meet this solemn question with a strong, simple “I must”, then build your life in accordance with this necessity; your whole

Touch the turtle made from jade instead, and read on the shade of this lamp shaped like a carved dragon.

The beauty of my utopia is that it is past, present and future.

It is all we need and you are lucky because you can be in this room with us. Come closer and put your head on my shoulder.

All is fine.

11

现在回答咱们：你是谁？ 我是唯一自由的人。我是中国人。 “中国，中华

life, even into its humblest and most indifferent hour, must become a sign and witness to this impulse”.8

I am THE free man. I am Chinese. “In fact, China, the People’s Republic of China, Southeast Asia, every island of the South Pacific, Mongolia People’s Republic and Hungary— each is Chinese national territory. Indivisible, all are ancillary states, so mighty! All have been severed, but even if you sever the heart of China, you can’t remove the impact of China. It is stamped on your back, engraved on your heart. You can never forget that you’re Chinese.

人民共和国、东南亚、南太平洋各个岛国、蒙古 共和国和匈牙利，一个是中国版图，你不能分 割，都是附属国，多么强大！都分出去了，但是 你再分，你分不开的是中国心，去不掉的是中国 印。在你背上是中国印，这个中国印刻在你心 里，你永远不会忘记你是中国人。 ” 但现在，咱们去吃饭吧。6 ...话语又回到了我的身边。 我的话语，我的谜题，我的笑脸。 为了舒缓而写作 为了忘却而写作 显然 收回目光，我重拾起搁置的时空 我凝望，头顶的腾云 无所谓 [无所谓] 但，无却偏偏有所谓 无，腐烂了 后期的建筑 视觉污染了 我想要离开 起身 离开 生活，推搡着我前进 无视我的冷漠 无视我的疲惫 无视我空洞的 眼神 遗落的礼物呵，无处寻觅 爱、和平、欢乐，都无法找回它 如果你明白这个

Now let’s go eat”.9 …and words come back to me.

My words, my riddles, my laughs.

“I write so as not to burst I write to forget Obviously I take up my gaze from where I left off I look at the clouds rising above And nothing matters [And nothing matters] But this Nothing is important This Nothing decays Post production architecture When images poison I would like to leave Stand up and Go Life pushes me forward Against my apathy Against my exhaustion Against the gaze That sees no more And nothing can find the forgotten gift Nothing, neither love, nor peace, nor joy And if you know this

[状况]

[Condition]

双手无法承受或抚平 我的呆滞、苦涩的笑

Hands are not enough to sustain Or remove my sardonic and bitter smile

愚蠢的 迟疑的

Stupid Suspended”

12

Now answer this: “Who are you”?

13

尾声

你只是不肯牺牲，不当别人的玩物与祭品，也不求他人怜悯，也不忏悔，也不疯癫到不知所以，要 把别人统统踩死。以再平常不过的心态来看这世界，如同看你自己。你也就不恐惧，不奇怪，不失望 也不奢望什么，也就不忧伤了。倘想把忧伤作为享受，不妨也忧伤一下，随后再回到这极平常的你，嬉 笑而自在。”7

在北京、上海和达喀尔三地记录及创作，2008年6月

Epilogue

You absolutely refuse to be a sacrifice, refuse to be a plaything or a sacrificial object for others, refuse to seek compassion from others, refuse to repent, refuse to go mad and trample everyone else to death. You look upon the world with a mind that is the epitome of ordinariness, and in exactly the same way you look at yourself. Nothing inspires fear, amazement, disappointment or wild expectation, and hence, you avoid frustration. If you want to enjoy being upset, you get upset, then revert to this supremely ordinary, smiling and content you”.10

Recorded and written in Beijing, Shanghai and Dakar, June 2008

翻译：黄一

1

文中的访谈和注释仅为博君一笑，文中表达的观点为发言人个人的观点，并不一定代表作者或其员工的观点。

2

关于奥运宣传有多方报道，danwei.org 一直在提供最新的信息：

http://www.danwei.org/featured_video/the_official_olympic_cheer.php

1

The following text is for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed are those of the individual speakers and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the authors or any of their affiliates.

2

From a conversation with Zhang Wei, Meng Huang and Wang Shugang.

3

For more information about ping’an, see: http://www.danwei.org/featured_video/the_official_olympic_cheer.php.

3

俄罗斯诗人-茨维塔耶娃认为：诗是一种自然力，它落到诗人身上，如同一种疾病，天才诗人则开放地接纳这一“瘟疫”般的自 然力。

4

Russian poet Marina Tsvetaeva described poetry as a natural force that infects the being like a virus. Talented poets resign themselves to this “illness”, this instinct.

4

摘自里尔克著《给年轻诗人的信》（Stephen Mitchell译）：请你走向内心。探索那让你写作的缘由，考察它的根是不是盘在你心的深 处。你要坦白承认，万一不允许你写作，你是不是必得因此而死去。这是最重要的：在最夜深人静的时刻问问自己，我必须写吗？你要 在内心深处找到答复。若是答案是肯定的，你也能够以一种坚强、单纯的‘我必须’来回答这个严肃问题，那么，你就根据这个需要去 构建你的生活吧，直到你生活中最寻常最细琐的时刻，都必须是这个创作冲动的标志和证明。

5

“Talk politics about China to Zhou Enlai, I answer only to general, more entertaining questions”. (Mao Zedong to Richard Nixon) For more information on the Richard Nixon-Zhou Enlai Talks, see: http://www.geocities.com/woodkirkcc/MrNixon.htm.

6

In Chinese culture, it is customary to burn paper offerings to commemorate the deceased.

7

Ruyi is a curved decorative object that is a ceremonial scepter in Chinese Buddhism or a talisman symbolising power and good fortune in Chinese folklore.

5

想了解这场历史性会面的更多情况，请浏览：http://www.geocities.com/woodkirkcc/MrNixon.htm。

6

摘自孟煌、蒋震宇访谈，2008年2月28日于河南开封一家咖啡馆。在这句引言中，蒋震宇将中国的地理边界延伸到了匈牙利...“因为中 国人。中国，中华人民共和国、东南亚、南太平洋各个岛国、蒙古共和国和匈牙利，一个是中国版图，你不能分割，都是附属国，多么强 大！都分出去了，但是你再分，你分不开的是中国心，去不掉的是中国印。在你背上是中国印，这个中国印刻在你心里，你永远不会忘记 你是中国人”。

《一个人的圣经》，高行健，198页。

7

14

8

From Letters To A Young Poet, by Rainer Maria Rilke (translated by Stephen Mitchell).

9

Jiang Zhenyu interview by Meng Huang. February 28, 2008, in a cafe, Kaifeng, Henan. In this quote, Jiang Zhenyu puts the geographic limits of China as far as Hungary.

10

From One Man’s Bible by Gao Xingjiang, p 198.

15

孟煌 ——《你说呢? 风景》

Meng Huang – “And What do You Think? Landscapes”

箫岭

Nataline Colonnello

一个微小、迟疑的笔触落在白色大幅画布上，随即一串串碎小、躁动的笔触急促地接踵而 至，它们互相重叠，慢慢覆盖了画布，从远看去，好似在清澈水面上肆意扩散的浮油。渐渐地， 一颗树、一朵浪花，或是一支芦苇逐渐地从一片片混杂的图形中呈现出来。艺术家记忆中隐藏的 元素一个接一个的涌现，形成了对视觉和心理的冲击力，最终使这画面变成了一幅强大有力又充 满诗意的风景，通篇浸透着个人、社会和文化的内涵。

A tiny, doubtful starting point onto the large, white canvas; then a restless patter of small, anxious, incessantly adjusted brushstrokes follow one after another, covering one another, slowly coating the support in something that, from afar, might look like an oil slick inexorably expanding on clear water. Little by little, a chaotic forest of muddy signs outlines a tree, a wave, a bulrush. One by one, concealed elements of the artist’s memory gradually come into sight and grow in visual and psychological impact, eventually turning into an extremely powerful and at the same time poetic landscape saturated with personal, social and cultural references.

孟煌（1966 年生于北京）是一位令人着迷的讲故事高手，他专注于对画面中丰富的细节内 容的把握，并在描绘故事时不断地对此提出质疑，反复斟酌。孟煌的每件作品都重述了一个隐藏 在神秘之下，扣人心眩又冲突跌宕的悲剧片段 —— 存在。孟煌笔下的风景用色简朴，他会使用 18种不同色调的黑颜料，画面充满了强烈的象征主义和浪漫主义色彩。艺术家对于自然梦幻般 的描绘通过风景的美展现了出来，而灰暗的色调和对具有独特历史和文化特点的场景或主题选择 则反映了孟煌对现实和中国当今社会政治体系的批判性分析。 《板桥水库》这一巨大风景作品在观念和尺寸两方面都不寻常（350 x 1760 cm, 由八块画板组 成，每块尺寸 350 x 220 cm）。同他早期一些户外写生作品相似（如《风景》，2004，400 x 220 cm 或《风景》写生，08.10.2006-20.10.2006 —— 德国汉堡美术馆，2006，200 x 400 cm） ， 《板桥水 库》既被艺术家看作是一张油画，也被他视为一次现场的绘画表演（这里意指户外写生）。为了 完成这件作品（2007年4月-7月） ，孟煌在河南驻马店市汝河干枯的河床上竖起了一个巨大的脚手 架，该作品描绘了周围地区 360°的全景。画面的聚焦是在板桥大坝上看到的风景。这座引起诸多 争议的巨大水库建于上世纪 50 年代初，艺术家在河南省长大，因此对有关这座水库的一次恶性事 件了然于心。灾难发生在1975年 8 月8日：当北方的强冷空气遭遇到超级台风“尼娜”后，由于建 设或设计原因，板桥水库和下游的 61 座规模较小的水库溃坝，带来了让人始料未及的严重后果。 三十多年来，对这次滔天洪水导致的死亡人数一直是国家机密，直到2005年才公之于众。根据 河南省水利厅的数据，洪水的死亡人数约 26,000 人，另有 145,000 人死于水灾后的饥馑和瘟疫。1 在国际人权观察组织（Human Rights Watch）的另一份相关报告中，实际死亡数量比中国官方纪 录要高许多。2 多数在1975年坍塌的水库日后都已重建，板桥水库也于1993年重建完成。孟煌的 《板桥水库》不仅唤醒了人们对这场恐怖巨灾的记忆，同时为另一座野心勃勃、人为干涉自然 的水坝项目—— 三峡大坝（四川省）—— 蒙上了一层阴影。这座世界上最大的水电站其实隐藏着 更大的风险。 《风景 2006 》 （400 x 220 cm）是艺术家与另一种自然破坏力近距离接触的产物。他原本准 备以户外写生的方式描绘北京凤凰岭周围的群山，但一场于2006 年 4 月的超强沙尘暴吹翻并折断 了支撑画布的巨大木架，画布也遭到损坏。 16

Meng Huang (Beijing, 1966) is an enchanting storyteller enamoured with richly detailed subplots that he incessantly questions during the pictorial narration. Each of Meng Huang’s works recounts a fragment of an enthralling and conflictual tragedy wrapped in mystery: existence. Brought into being with an earthy palette including up to 18 hues of black, Meng Huang’s landscapes are imbued with a strong symbolism and Romantic echoes. The artist’s dreamy projections into Nature are expressed through the aesthetical beauty of the scenery, while the sombre colours and the choice of specific venues and subjects relevant for their historical and, or cultural character reflect Meng Huang’s critical analysis of China’s current reality and socio-political system.

Dam is a monumental landscape remarkable both in terms of concept and size (350 x 1760 cm, eight panels each 350 x 220 cm). Similar to a few other earlier works painted en plain air (e.g., Landscape, 2004, 400 x 220 cm or 08.10.2006-20.10.2006–Hamburger Kunsthalle, 2006, 200 x 400 cm), Dam is regarded by the artist both as a live painting performance—with reference to the outdoor painting process – and as an oil painting. For the completion of this work that took place from April-July 2007, Meng Huang constructed a massive scaffold on the dry riverbed of the Ru River, Zhumadian Prefecture, Henan Province, and painted a 360-degree panorama of the surrounding area.

The central focus of Dam is a view from Banqiao Dam, a huge, controversial structure erected in the early 1950s. As a Henan native, the artist is intimately familiar with the dam’ infamous story. On August 8, 1975, the Banqiao Dam and a string of 61 other smaller reservoirs downstream suffered catastrophic damage triggered by the unforeseen consequences of a cold air rush from northern China and Typhoon Nina combined with construction and engineering oversights. The death toll from the resulting flood was only declassified in 2005, having remained a state secret for over 30 years. According to the Hydrology Department of Henan Province, the victims for the flooding totalled nearly 26,000, while another 145,000 people died from the ensuing famine and epidemics.1 Judged by a corresponding report by Human Rights Watch, the actual body count appears 17

孟煌坦然接受了人类相对自然力量的局限，他决定保持画作未完成的状态。 同他早期创作的《失乐园》系列（1994-2001）作品不同，孟煌的近作展示了一个个由自然 风景放大的细节，而在过去的作品中经常出现的建筑物（如工业楼宇和工厂烟囱）则在这些作 品中难觅踪迹。近几年来，孟煌对于“转瞬即逝”的美，以及美的转瞬即逝的特性越来越感兴 趣，他开始观察并描绘移动的物体，例如云彩（《云》，2008，220 x 400 cm） 、风中摇曳的树叶和 草叶（《天空》，2007），还有布满涟漪的水面（《水》，2008， 《秘密池塘之四》，2007）。在孟 煌的眼中， “最不稳定的东西都不是完全真实的。如果一处风景太真实，对我来说总是缺少一些 美丽。池塘、湖泊、河流和小沟里的水看起来都是不同的，因此它们给人带来的心理反映也会大 相径庭。”3 2001年以来，孟煌一直在创作一组名为《国际脸》的“人类风景”系列，通过这些作品， 艺术家再一次推翻了普遍的美学标准和感观依据。孟煌在多幅约 280 x 180 cm 的画布上来描绘他 最钟爱的模特蒋震宇那不断变幻的面部表情，勾画出了这位患有唐式综合症的老朋友和邻居的复 杂心理。有些中国人把患有这种病的人称为“国际脸” ，因为他们不论国籍或种族，面部特征看 起来都差不多。在当前中国快速奔向全球化的历史背景下，孟煌的《国际脸》成为了一种象征性 的警告，让人们警惕日益肤浅的知识标准化和文化身份的缺失。孟煌的这些作品质疑了所谓的“ 正常人”，他仿佛希望通过作品的主题告诉观众： “如果你希望在全球推行同一种文化，你也是心 智不健全的。”4 想回答孟煌在他的风景作品中提出的问题并非易事。 “你说呢？”5

2008年8月，北京 翻译：黄一

to be much higher than the official figure.2 Many of the dams that collapsed in 1975 have been rebuilt since then, including the Banqiao Dam in 1993. Meng Huang’s Dam not only keeps the memory of a terrible catastrophe alive, but also casts a shadow on the even greater risks connected with another ambitious and manmade intervention on nature: the Three Gorges Dam in Sichuan Province—the world’s largest hydro-electric station.

Landscape (2006, 400 x 220 cm) is the result of a different close encounter with the destructive power of nature. Planned as an en plain air painting representing the mountains surrounding Fenghuangling, Beijing, the painting was damaged by a violent sand storm on April 2006 that snapped and wiped out the massive wooden canvas support.

By accepting the limits of his human condition in the face of the forces of nature, Meng Huang resolved to leave the work unfinished.

Differing from earlier works such as the Paradise Lost series (1994-2001), Meng Huang’s recent landscapes show intimate close-ups of purely natural details. Absent is the previous motif of architectural structures (e.g., industrial buildings, factory smokestacks) from the overall view. In recent years, Meng Huang’s growing interest in the beauty of transience—as well as the transience of beauty—has led him to observe and represent movable subjects in particular, such as clouds (Clouds, 2008, 220 x 400 cm), leaves or blades of grass swaying in the wind (Sky, 2007) and, above all, rippling water surfaces (Water, 2008; Secret Pond No. 4, 2007). In the artist’s own words: “The most unstable things are not completely real. If a landscape is too real, to me it somehow lacks beauty. Waters from a pond, a lake, a river, a ditch all have different appearances; therefore the psychological function they generate is different as well”.3 Since 2001, Meng Huang has been painting a series of human landscapes titled International Face. In these works, once again, the artist topples the concept of the common aesthetical and perceptual sense. In most of canvases approximating 280 x 180 cm, Meng Huang portrays the evertransforming facial expressions of his favourite model, Jiang Zhenyu, and thus reveals the emotional and psychological complexity of his old friend and neighbour who is afflicted by Down’s syndrome.

The title of the series comes from a popular Chinese saying; because people with Down’s syndrome have similar facial features regardless of nationality or ethnicity, they are referred to as “international faces” (guoji lian). Given China’s current breakneck course towards globalisation, Meng Huang’s International Face becomes an emblematic warning against China’s rapid and increasingly superficial standardisation of knowledge and cultural identity loss. Meng Huang questions the idea of so-called “normality” by way of Jiang Zhengyu’s portraits that seem to say: “If a homogenous global culture is what you desire, then you, too, must be mentally disabled”.4 The questions Meng Huang puts forwards in his landscapes are not easily answered. “And What do You Think”? 5

Beijing, August 2008

1

http://www.hnsl.gov.cn/look0/article.php?L_Type=1&id=297

2

“在由此产生的洪水、饥馑和传染病 http://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/China1.htm, 1995年2月，Vol. 7，No. 1，国际人权观察组织： 大爆发中，死亡人数从86,000人 (政府内部发布的数据)到 230,000人（8名对于三峡大坝持批判态度的中国资深人士的估计）都有 可能。”

3

摘自2008年6月21日与孟煌在他北京画室（河北村）一次谈话。

4 5

摘自2005年2月16日与孟煌在他北京画室（河北村）一次谈话。 摘自2008年2月28日孟煌与蒋震宇在河南开封的访谈，这是蒋震宇在该访谈中不断询问孟煌的一句话。

18

1

http://www.hnsl.gov.cn/look0/article.php?L_Type=1&id=297

2

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/China1.htm, February 1995, Vol. 7, No. 1, Human Rights Watch: “In the resulting floods, famine and health epidemics, fatalities amounted to anywhere between 86,000 (the government’s internally-released figure) and 230,000 (an estimate produced by eight senior Chinese critics of the Three Gorges project).”

3

Excerpt from an interview with Meng Huang in his Beijing studio in Hebeicun village on June 21, 2008.

4

Excerpt from an interview with Meng Huang in his Beijing studio in Hebeicun village on February 16, 2005.

5

Jiang Zhenyu’s recurring response to Meng Huang during an interview of Jiang Zhenyu by Meng Huang in Kaifeng, Henan Province on February 28, 2008.

19

孟煌、蒋震宇访谈

Meng Huang Interview with Jiang Zhenyu

2008年2月28日于河南开封一咖啡馆

February 28, 2008, in a cafe in Kaifeng, Henan Province

孟煌、蒋震宇、何适

Meng Huang, Jiang Zhenyu and He Shi

孟煌（以下简称孟） ：震宇，你是怎么看待摄影这个问题的？

Meng Huang (hereinafter referred to as ‘Meng’): Zhenyu, what do you think of taking pictures?

Jiang Zhenyu (hereinafter referred to as ‘Jiang’): Whatever; sometimes you have things that you should study. When you have learned them, go and try to find one. If you’re going to use a camera independently, you can photograph as much as you wish, so shoot away as you please.

蒋震宇（以下简称蒋） ：无所谓，有时候有的东西应该学学，学会了，自己去买一个用，独立地用 相机，能够自己拍，随意拍的。 孟： 你为什么喜欢摄影？ 蒋： [ 未回答这个问题 ]

Meng: Why do you like photography?

Jiang: [No response.]

孟： 震宇，一会儿请你喝咖啡，请你吃肉。 蒋： 行啊！我这人就是怪脾气，碰到肉就没命。

Meng: Zhenyu, I’m going to treat you to a coffee in a bit and invite you to eat some meat.

Jiang: Okay! I have an odd disposition, and I’m just dying to bump into some meat.

孟： 有一个条件。

Meng: But there is a condition.

Jiang: Just name it.

蒋： 你说吧！ 孟： 你得接受我一个采访。

Meng: You grant me an interview.

Jiang: Okay.

蒋： 可以。 孟： 你谈一谈你自己。你是在哪儿出生的？ 蒋： 嘿嘿，说真的，出生地是比较远的了，在江苏省的无锡市，那是我的原籍。我在上海长大。

Meng: Just tell a bit about yourself. Where were you born?

Jiang: Hey, hey, my place of birth is rather far: Wuxi City in Jiangsu Province; that’s my old ancestral home. I grew up in Shanghai. But actually, we weren’t born in Shanghai; we came from the banks of the Yangtze, in the south, very far away. Do you know Chiang Kai-shek?1

其实我们的家族不是生在上海，我们是长江沿岸过来的，是南方，很远的。你还认识不认识 蒋介石啊？ 孟： 那当然。 蒋： 我是蒋家二村的，蒋家一村和二村之间的，和蒋介石是一个宗派，但不是一家的。 孟： 如果要是一家，会怎么样？ 蒋： 如果是一家的话，会有可能造成不必要的麻烦，因为同姓于蒋，就很容易把我弄成蒋介石 了，蒋介石弄成蒋震宇了。

Meng: Yes, indeed.

Jiang: I am from the second village of Jiangs—between the first and second village of Jiangs—and Chiang Kai-shek is from a cadet branch of the family, but it is not really part of mine.

Meng: What would it be like if you were close relations?

Jiang: It might have caused unnecessary trouble. As we are both surnamed Jiang, I might have been Chiang Kai-shek and he might have been me.

Meng: Oh. Jiang: Because we are both named Jiang, same sound, same character.

孟： 噢。 蒋： 因为我们同姓于蒋，同一个音，同一个字，同字同音。 孟： 你知道你家里的情况吗？你爸爸、妈妈？ 20

Meng: What about your family life, your mum and dad?

Jiang: Aside from my parents and sister, I have two brothers and sisters. One is my natural sister, Jiang Yiqun—you also know her. She finished primary school in the fifth grade. Me, I finished in the first grade; class one. You both know this. That was the situation in those days.

21

蒋： 除我父母和妹妹之外，我有两个弟妹。一个是我亲妹，蒋忆群［谐音；编者注］，你也认 识。她是小学五年级毕业。我呢，小学一年级，你们都知道。这是那时候的情况。那时候因 为身体不适，退回来了，退学。

Then, my health was not up to it so I had to withdraw, withdraw from school.

Meng: Was the teacher nice to you?

Jiang: The teacher with which surname? Not too nice to me. At that time, my spelling test and Chinese language tests had already taken place; I was sixth to last place in the entire class.

孟： 那么老师对你好吗？ 蒋： 那个姓什么的老师？对我不是太好 。那时我的拼音考试和语文考试还过得去，是全班倒数的

Meng: Your coffee should be up soon.

Jiang: Well.

正位的第六名 。 孟： 一会儿你的咖啡会上来。 蒋： 哦。 何： 我随便给你拍。 蒋： 拍吧拍吧，无所谓。 孟： 你爸爸、妈妈是在哪儿毕业的？ 蒋： 一个是北大体育教学系应届生。文化大革命的时候生了我，放在上海我奶奶家了，她姓荣， 是蒋氏夫人。那个时候由于社会变动，文化大革命初期比较乱，由于怕我出事，就把我放到

He Shi (hereinafter referred to as ‘He’): Let me take some photos in the meantime.

Jiang: Shoot away; shoot away; whatever.

Meng: Your mum and dad, where did they graduate from?

Jiang: One was a graduate of Beijing University, Physical Education Department. My mum gave birth to me during the Cultural Revolution, then sent me to my grand mum’s house in Shanghai; her surname is Rong, Mr. Jiang’s wife. Because of the social changes taking place then—the Cultural Revolution was rather chaotic—she was afraid something would happen to me, so I was sent to the big city.

Meng: Did you like going to school?

Jiang: You could say I liked it and you could say I didn’t, or vice-versa. I had certain gripes against my school.

大城市去了。 孟： 你喜欢上学吗？

Meng: Why? Jiang: Because my teacher was not terribly nice to me. It was really stressful. In other words, it had a negative effect on my psyche.

蒋： 说喜欢，也不喜欢，说不喜欢，也喜欢。我当时对学校有点意见。 孟： 为什么？

Meng: I have heard you are a bit of a bookworm.

Jiang: Yes, I do like to read; I went to the library often. There was a six-volume set I particularly liked.

蒋： 因为老师对我不太好，心里有压抑，也就是说心里有不好的反应。 孟： 据说你喜欢读书。

Meng: Which work?

Jiang: Popular science books, technological kinds.

蒋： 是，我是喜欢读书，图书馆我经常去。有一套六本的，我特别喜欢。

Meng: Have you read the classics?

Jiang: Classics, I’ve read the Chinese ones; of the four famous ones, I’ve read three.

孟： 是什么书？

Meng: Which three?

Jiang: Journey to the West, Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Outlaws of the Marsh.

蒋： 科普书籍，科技类的。 孟： 你读过什么名著没有？ 蒋： 名著，我读过中国的、四大名著中的三个。 孟： 哪三个？ 蒋：《西游记》、《三国演义》、《水浒全传》。 孟： 第四个你知道是什么吗？ 蒋：《红楼梦》。 孟： 为什么不读？ 蒋： 我看不懂，我绝对地说看不懂。因为它有文言文、白话文，还有很多繁体字什么的，我不一 定看得懂。 孟： 你对这三个名著有什么理解呢？ 蒋： 不愧是古代的，现在的在军事上和政治上都不能超过本国利益，你说呢？像诸葛亮、司马 22

Meng: Do you know what the fourth one is?

Jiang: A Dream of Red Mansions.

Meng: Why didn’t you read it?

Jiang: I couldn’t understand it, I just couldn’t understand it. It uses classical Chinese allusions, vernacular language and lots of traditional Chinese characters 2, that kind of thing. I certainly couldn’t understand.

Meng: What is your understanding of these three classics?

Jiang: They really deserve being called ‘ancient’; in today’s military affairs and political affairs, one may not go beyond this nation’s interests. What do you think? Like Zhu Geliang, Sima Yi 3, Sun Quan and Zhou Yu 4 —they were all renowned statesmen, also scientists; they were all like that. According to current versions, among these four generations of leaders, there were four prime ministers and four chairmen. Apart from this, there was no difference between them.

Meng: Would you like for me to draw you?

Jiang: I’d like to be drawn or photographed; either is okay. I am willing to serve as a human ladder; you guys just come and I hold you up.

Meng: Why are you willing to serve as a human ladder?

23

懿、孙权、周瑜他们都是很有名的政治家，也是科学家，诸如此类。按照现在的话说，四代 领导人当中，四个总理，四个主席，除此之外，没别的。 孟： 你喜欢让我画你吗？ 蒋： 要画，要拍，都可以，我甘做人梯，把你们托起来。 孟： 你为什么甘做人梯？ 蒋： 因为我心里很清楚每一个成功的名人后面，总是有一个默默无闻的人支持你们的工作。因为 你失去一个朋友，心里肯定有一种不太舒服的感觉，对吧？你失去一个朋友，当时你眼圈里 面有点发红，我知道你心里放不下这个已经失去的朋友。所以我当时不是劝你嘛，从工作 中，加倍地努力工作学习，走完你朋友没走完的路，踩着他的脚印走，走到他人生旅程最后 的里程，用公共的效益，用百倍的努力，用刻苦的学习和锻炼来弥补你内心的空缺。我没有 别的意图，就是把你们扶到正位上去，走自己的路，离开失去朋友的那个阴影，把自己的路 走好，管好你份内的事和份外的事，这样你就不会因为你失去你的朋友而孤独。我是这个意 图。二哥，你说呢？ 孟： 我没有你的想法多。 [ 较长的间隙 ] 蒋： 这次采访，你有什么收获？ 孟： 还有很多，我在想。我也不知道要说什么。你这么能说。 蒋： 不是我能说，因为我看过几本书了。采访的书籍我可能没看过，但是我确实知道一些，对于 记者来说，职业约束他不能离开本职工作。无论他失去什么朋友，工作还是要继续下去，路 还要自己走下去。不能靠朋友去扶你，一旦失去朋友，你怎么办？象一位将军，把一个孩子

Jiang: Because I am clear in my mind that behind every successful person, there is always a silent, unheard person supporting his work. Because if a friend dies, there is definitely an uncomfortable feeling in your heart, isn’t that right? If you lose a friend, your eyeballs will redden a bit on the inside. I know that one can never unburden one’s heart of this lost friend. Therefore, at that time, I was trying to persuade you, in the midst of work and study—one must exert oneself in redoubled, diligent efforts, finish along the road whose course one’s friend could not complete; tread along in his footsteps, going to his last living milestone, conferring benefits upon the public, exerting oneself with hundred-fold effort, using diligent study and forging something to fill the void in one’s heart. I have no other intention, so you guys just go right ahead, go your own way, come out from under your friend’s shadow, steer your own course, mind your own internal and external affairs. In this way, one needn’t feel ‘widowed’ because one has lost a friend. This is my intention. What do you think, bro’? 5 Meng: I have nothing to top that view.

Jiang: So, we’re having an interview. What have you got out of this?

Meng: I’ve still got lots of questions. Let me think. I also don’t know what I want to say—you are so eloquent.

Jiang: It’s not that I have things to say just because I’ve read a few books. It’s possible I haven’t read any interview books, but I certainly know this: a journalist has a restrictive career because he may not leave this professional work. Regardless of whether he has lost this friend or that, the work must continue; the road must still be travelled. One can’t rely on a friend’s support. One day you lose a friend, what then? It’s like a general, helping a child mount a horse; what should the child do afterwards—repay the general? Or repay the field marshal? This is something to consider. He is, after all, a helper onto the horse, a helper onto the road, but does not go along to the destination, does not propel him forward; that’s no good—rely on yourself only. It takes time for a child to grow up.

[Aside to a waitress bearing coffee:] Thank you.

Meng: This is chocolate. How is it?

Jiang: Mmmm, not bad.

扶上马，以后这个孩子怎么做——是报答这个将军呢？还是报答这个元帅？这都要考虑到。 他毕竟是上马的人，扶他走路的人，他不是去拉他，去强迫他，不行，靠自己。孩子长大，

Meng: What books are you reading now?

Jiang: I watch TV now; I’m not reading any books.

有过程。[对端上咖啡的女服务员说： ] 谢谢。 孟： 这是巧克力。 怎么样，味道？ 蒋： 嗯，不错。 孟： 你现在看什么书？ 蒋： 我现在在看电视，没看书。 孟： 看电视，你对国家大事了解得多不多？

Meng: When you watch TV, do you understand much about significant national events?

Jiang: Significant national events? Lots, like combating floods. When Hu Jintao first took office, it was in the midst of the battle against SARS. Yet once a leader assumes office there must be a significant event, like Mao Zedong: once he assumed office, he stopped eating meat, why?

One reason was fighting floods and conducting rescue operations in stricken areas; one was Xingtai and the great earthquake in Xingtai and Tangshan areas. The second-generation leaders are the same—go south, grab a pen and write and draw and the nation will immediately reform; travel around the south twice giving speeches. What about the third-generation leaders, like Jiang Zemin? Well, he retrieved Hong Kong and Macau. What about the present Hu Jintao? He battled SARS, flood and blizzards. All of these are significant national events, without exception. If you’re talking about significant foreign events, I know nothing whatsoever.

蒋： 国家大事？多啦，像抗洪。因为胡锦涛第一次登台的时候，抵抗SARS，就是非典。不过，每 一届领导人上台，必须有大事，像毛泽东，第一届，就不吃肉了，为什么？就是一个是抗洪 救灾，一个就是邢台、唐山大地震。第二代领导人也一样，往南走，拿着笔一写一画，国家 马上就改革，两次南巡讲话。第三代江泽民呢，收回港澳。现在的胡锦涛呢，抵抗SARS，抗 拒洪峰之灾害，抗拒冰雪灾害，都是国家大事，都不能例外。你要说国外大事，那我敢说我 一闻不知，一窍不通。 孟： 为什么？ 蒋： 因为我是中国人，国家大事是中华人民共和国的大事。作为一个共和国的市民，我总不能 不了解共和国吧。那你二哥，不让你摄影，你心里很难受。人总应该有自己的职业道德， 24

Meng: Why? Jiang: Because I’m Chinese. Significant national events are significant national events of the People’s Republic of China. As a citizen of the republic, understanding the republic is something I must do. Hey, bro’, if I won’t let you take pictures; you’re psyche is disturbed. They say you must have your own professional ethics; as a citizen of this nation, I want to serve this country, and may not go beyond this country to service abroad. What country are you from?

Meng: But people are talking about globalisation these days.

Jiang: Globalisation, what’s that? This is because China is in the globe, not just because of globalisation.

Meng: How do you view globalisation? The idea of globalisation is... aeroplanes and the Internet…

Jiang: Yes, the Internet…

25

作为一个国家市民来说，要为本国利益而服务，不能超越本国，去国外服务，那你是哪国

Meng: …they’re all closely connected…

人呢？ 孟： 那别人现在到处都在说全球化。 蒋： 全球化，这是为什么呐？这是因为中国在全球内，不得已才全球化。 孟： 你对全球化怎么看？全球化的意思就是 ……因为有飞机，有因特网…… 蒋： 是，因特网…… 孟： …… 都很接近 ……

Jiang: Take any network—China is not outside of it. As a nation, as a leader, one must resist the ravages of nature; one must resist the ravages of people and combat criminal activities. It makes no difference whether it is this nation or that, the grounds for fear—social turmoil, national instability, floods and disasters—no country whatsoever is exempt from these. This is surely true. If you’re going to conduct this interview like a journalist, you’ll have to go.

Why? Because this is a matter of professional ethics, being a journalist, this is a profession, a cautious and conscientious profession; how can one smarting from the pain of losing a friend... Working, studying, living, eating and drinking are all primary necessities; you can’t say: “Whoa, I’m going to beat myself because I’m trapped in the pain of losing a friend”.

What do you do? Do you still want to work? Where are professional ethics? What do you think, bro’?

蒋： 任何网络，中国也不在其外。作为一个国家，一个领导人，一个是抗击自然灾害，一个是抗 击人为灾害、抗击犯罪行为。反正不管哪个国家，怕的是什么呢 —— 社会动荡，国家不安 定？抗洪救灾，哪个国家都不能例外，这是实打实的问题。如果让你作为记者去采访，你必 须去，为什么？因为这是职业道德，作为一个记者，这是职业，兢兢业业的职业，怎么会因 为失去朋友的痛苦……工作、学习、生活、饮食，都要抓在第一线，而不能说，喔，因为失 去了朋友陷在痛苦之中难以自拔。那你怎么办？工作还要不要？职业道德在哪里？你说呢， 二哥？ 孟： 嗯。如果有机会去国外旅行，你愿意不愿意？ 蒋： 国外旅行？那很好。但有一点，绝对不能学国外的那些教育方式。 孟： 为什么？ 蒋： 我父亲出过国，他回来，一下子就变了。变成什么样呢？毒打、辱骂、侮辱人，我很不理 解。对子女的心理、生理造成了很大的摧残。我并不是敌视父母。人们教育方式不一样，国 外有国外的教育，国内有国内的教育，教育不能国家化。我们中国有中国的文化、文明、教 育，国外有国外的教育，在文明之间可以交流，但是教育不行。教育不能交流，这是教育范 围不一样，教育范畴没有局限。对子女，以和为贵，以民族利益大局为出发，以家庭利益大 局利益出发，为两代人共存的家庭出发。是为了一个人的面子重要呢？还是为了两家人的面 子重要？那都是很重要吧？教育也应该看到中国教育市场和国际市场它们不能接轨，那个文 明程度是不一样的。 孟： 那什么可以接轨呢？ 蒋： 文化可以交流，文化可以接轨，语言可以接轨，但是唯一不能接轨的就是教育。 孟： 那么文化和教育有什么不同呢？ 蒋： 文化有物质文化、非物质文化，还有…… 怎么说呐？反正就这两样吧，其它就没什么了。它 就是这样，一个距离。所以教育范畴不能单考虑到个人需要。 孟：你刚才说的语言可以接轨，是什么意思？ 蒋： 你看，出租车司机，虽然有外商啊、外宾啊，你语言不可以交流啊，你说呢？ 孟： 嗯，他得学一点儿外语。

Meng: Mmmm. If you had the opportunity to travel abroad, would you go?

Jiang: Foreign travel? Yeah, it’s great. But I don’t think I could engage in the foreign method of study.

Meng: Why? Jiang: My father went abroad; when he returned, he changed. What did he change into? He abused, humiliated and insulted me; I really don’t understand. This caused great mental harm to his children. But I don’t view my parents with enmity. People’s educational styles are not the same. They have foreign education abroad and domestic education in China; education should not be nationalised. We Chinese have Chinese culture, civilisation and education; abroad, they have foreign education. We can have exchanges between civilisations, but not between education systems. Education systems cannot be exchanged; this is because education systems are not the same; education categories have no limits. Sons and daughters should be treated nicely; the interests of one’s own people should serve as a starting point, the interests of one’s own family should serve as a starting point; preserving two generations together in one family should serve as a starting point. Are the feelings of one person important, or the feelings of two family members? Are they equally important?

Education should also pay regard to China’s education market and the international education market; the two are mutually exclusive, the levels of civilisation are different.

Meng: How can they be brought together?

Jiang: Cultures can be exchanged, cultures can be brought together; languages can be brought together, but something that just can’t be brought together is education systems.

Meng: What is the difference between culture and education, then?

Jiang: Culture has material culture and immaterial culture, and also… how to put it? Just these two then, otherwise nothing. It’s just like that, a great distance. So categories of education may not just be viewed from the standpoint of one person’s needs.

Meng: You just said languages could be brought together; what do you mean?

Jiang: Look, there’s a taxi driver, he happens to have foreign business, foreign customers, but cannot communicate with them in their language, well?

Meng: Hmmm, he should learn some foreign language.

Jiang: Right, he should learn some foreign language. That is language exchange.

Meng: Have you?

Jiang: [In broken English:] Hello! Bye-bye! Here go! Bye-bye! [In Chinese:] I can do verbal language, but usually don’t use it, since in China, it doesn’t matter whether you do or not, since at best we are each our own person, and so whichever language you use is okay. But with foreign languages, we could say ‘its all Greek to me’, but we should not say ‘I can’t speak them at all’.

What do you think, bro’?

蒋： 对，得学点儿外语，那就是语言交流。 孟： 你学吗？ 蒋： Hello! Bye Bye! Here go! Bye Bye! 口头语音我都会，但是我经常不用，因为在国内，用不用无 26

Meng: Hmmm. What view do you hold with respect to China’s future?

Jiang: China’s future definitely has one purpose: good national administration and legitimisation of the education market; children must not be beaten or scolded in a humiliating way; you may not employ inflammatory language to attack an opponent; this would be illegal conduct. Even if you 27

所谓，因为充其量我们都是自己人，什么语言都可以。但是对国外的语言，我们应该说是一 窍不通，但是不能说不全会。你说呢，二哥？ 孟： 嗯。你对中国的未来抱有什么态度？ 蒋： 中国的未来反正一个宗旨——把国家治理好，把教育市场合法化，对子女不能毒打、辱骂，不 能用过激的言辞攻击对方，这是不合法的行为。无论你是父母，做父母，都不能这么做。你家 规再严，不能严过国法吧！国法并不是某一个领导人去定的。我们国家第一个皇帝 —— 秦始

are a parent, as a parent, you may not act in this way. Your house rules may be strict, but not stricter than the national law! National law is not established by a single leader. Our nation’s first emperor—Qinshihuang—his rules and laws were the Qin royal decrees, the Qin royal edicts. If you violated these precepts, you were a traitor and had to flee abroad. If you tried to flee, there was an order for your arrest. National law would not tolerate this. Whatever your age, beating your children, or beating yourself to death would be banned; if caught, you would be punished to the limit of the law. Now, with regard to education, one must start with civilised education, with children’s education; if you can’t, oh, well, you want to educate, then educate; you want to beat someone, then beat someone. Not okay in China; you can abroad, but not in China.

皇，他的规矩，他的法律，就是中国的秦王令，秦王政令，你要是违反他这个纲令，你就犯国 罪，你要再逃，逃到国外，还把你追回来，通缉回来，也就是国法难容。无论你多大，打子女 也罢，把自己打死也罢，抓你的，是司法界。那就是教育，必须从文明教育抓起，从孩子教育 抓起，不能，噢，你想教育就教育，想打就打。中国不实行，国外可以，中国不行。 孟： 说得好。你先吃一点…… 这个味道怎么样？ 蒋： 不错。 孟： 震宇，我问你一个新的问题。 蒋： 你问。 孟： 你喜欢艺术不喜欢？ 蒋： 艺术？谈不上。 孟： 为什么？ 蒋： 因为我对艺术应该说一窍不通，因为艺术上面，有很多…… 很多知识，我还应该说…… 有文 物艺术，文化艺术，集邮艺术，艺术中的美术、摄影。对于摄影，我有些领悟了，但是对于 美术来说，我一窍不通。 孟： 你喜欢美术吗？ 蒋： 喜欢归喜欢，但是职业，我就不行了。虽然很喜欢，但不是说我跟你一样，去从事美术工 作。这我做不来。 孟： 大学里的教授他们画的画，你怎么看？ 蒋： 因为他们画画是职业性的。你想，普通的绘画，有简笔画、素描、彩笔画、彩笔素描等等， 那都是比较烂的，比较乱。要职业地画，彩墨，不是彩绘，彩墨水粉画。所以它们之间有本 质的差异，质的飞跃。像你二龙哥，你以前什么都不会，[现在] 美术、摄影都会了，都是职 业性的，对不对？这就是质的飞跃，就是从质的飞跃开始提高的。你说呢，二哥？ 孟： 嗯。继续吃。 你听说没听说过“当代艺术”这个词儿？ 蒋： 当代艺术？那多啦。有摄影艺术 —— 摄影这种东西很早就有了，从清朝就有了摄影。你二 哥，如果你不懂艺术，不懂摄影，那就去看看历史，历史上也不乏有其例，你说对吧？你看 美术，在历史上不乏有能人呐，像杨州八怪。很多省、市、自治区、直辖市、地、县、村、 镇、集、乡，你随便挖一挖就知道了，很多人才。你看建筑艺术、历史、地理、美术、艺 术，不都是文化吗？文化可以和国外交流交流啊，几个口头语就行了，不用专门地去学外 语，可以用简单的会话去跟国外交流，那就是文化的交流。文明不能交流，因为文明之间有 本质的差异。你不能为了各种需要，你跑到国外去，谁听得懂你的话？中国的很多方言外国 人也听不懂啊。[ 用上海话：] 侬好，侬吃过饭了吗？国外就根本听不懂你说什么。完了！他 28

Meng: Very well put. Eat a bit first… How does it taste?

Jiang: Not bad.

Meng: Zhenyu, I’m going to ask you a new question.

Jiang: Ask away.

Meng: Do you like art?

Jiang: Art? I can’t talk about that.

Meng: Why? Jiang: Because I don’t know the first thing about art, because at the level of art there is very much… very much knowledge. I should also say… there is artifact art, cultural art, philatelic art, fine art and photographic art. With respect to photography, I do have some understanding, but I don’t know the first thing about fine art.

Meng: Do you like fine art?

Jiang: Back to that again… but that’s your business, it’s not my field. Although I do like it, it’s not the same as with you, engaging in fine arts work. I couldn’t do that.

Meng: What do you think of the pictures created by professors at universities?

Jiang: Their pictures are all professional… just think, ordinary depiction, simple pen drawings, sketches, coloured drawings, coloured sketches, things like that. They’re all pretty messy, pretty disorderly. If one wants to draw professionally, use coloured ink, not paint, or coloured ink and pastels. Thus they have an essential difference between them; this essence is a quantum leap. Just like you, bro’; before, you couldn’t do anything. Now, fine art, photography, you can do it all. It’s all professional, isn’t that right? This is a quantum leap; in essence a quantum leap that starts to uplift one. What do you think, bro’?

Meng: Mmmm. Go on eating. Did you or did you not utter the phrase ‘contemporary art’?

Jiang: Contemporary art? There’s so much. There’s photographic art—photography, this kind of thing was around early: there was photography in the Qing dynasty. You, my bro’, if you didn’t understand art, didn’t understand photography, you could just go and look at history; history has no lack of examples, isn’t that right? You look at fine art; there is no lack of capable people in history, like the Eight Masters of Yangzhou.6 In many provinces, cities, autonomous regions, independent cities under the central government, areas, counties, villages, towns, communes and rural areas, if you just dig a little, you’ll find lots of talent. Look at architectural art, history, geographical features, fine art and art; isn’t it all culture? Culture can be exchanged abroad; a few verbal expressions suffice. You don’t have to exclusively and thoroughly study a foreign language, you can use simple dialogue to communicate abroad, and this is cultural exchange. Civilisation you may not exchange, because there are essential differences between civilisations. You may not, based on any kind of need, set off abroad; who will understand what you say? Even the many foreigners living in China don’t understand what one says. [Mimicking Shanghai dialect:] ‘Ho’ are ‘oo? Hev ‘oo eating?’

[In standard Mandarin:] Abroad, they don’t understand what you say. That’s it! You don’t dare open your mouth! They won’t understand. You’re a Beijinger, bro’, speaking the northern dialect. [Mimicking northern dialect] ‘Hoy, whar you goin’ a-r-r-r? Let’s tark when you get bark!’ ‘Wha’?!’7 [In standard Mandarin:] Both speak without communicating. Therefore, language culture is difficult because of language difference, and culturally, there are a lot of places where you cannot communicate with people. Particularly with language culture, since language culture is too burdened with details. What do you think, bro’?

29

嘴张不开了！听不懂你的话。你二哥是北京人，北方话：啊，哪去？回来跟你说！什么？话 都说不出来啦。所以，语言文化很难区别，在文化上也有很多地方不能交流嘞，特别是你语 言文化，语言文化很烦琐。你说呢，二哥？ 孟： 喝，喝一点。好喝不好喝？ 蒋： Okay！你看，我用了一句外语吧？Okay！很好！要是平时来说：不错，挺好喝的。这么说都 很好。那就是语言的差异。 孟： 你觉得你生活中最大的快乐是什么？ 蒋： 生活中最大的快乐？一个，为集体服务，为大局利益服务，为两代人的共同利益而服务，不 能为了某一代人，不能为个人、老人、一代人服务，这样是不和谐的，不和谐的音符不合 法，不能为了你某一代人的利益，去把另外一代人牵扯在内。因为你父亲打你骂你，你心里 怎么想？你犯错误了吗？你没有。你凭什么打我呀？错误，你就给我指出来嘛，对了吧？让 我自己改。打、骂、逼，你二龙 [指孟煌；编者注] 也在其内，也不能例外吧？所以说，教 育很乱。所以说在教育上面，和西方国家不能交流，一旦交流的话，他们两者之间有排斥效 应。西方的文明，我们最好不用，因为这个文明，中国人，是共体，是为一个很大的家庭服

Meng: Drink, drink a bit. Is it good?

Jiang: [In English:] Okay! [In standard Mandarin:] See, I used a foreign-language expression. [In English:] Okay! Very good! [In standard Mandarin:] I would normally say: It’s not bad to drink, quite good. These ways of talking are all very good. This is all because of the divergence of language...

Meng: What is your greatest happiness in life?

Jiang: My greatest happiness in life? Only one: serve the people (collective service), service to the greater whole, service for the common good of the second generation, not for any one generation of people, not for one person, old people, one generation people; this is not harmonious—inharmonious musical notes are not legal. You can’t only benefit any single generation of people at the expense of another. What happens to your psyche if your father beats and scolds you? Are you guilty of an error? No. Based on what grounds are you hitting me? A mistake? Point it out to me, alright? Let me correct it myself. Beat, scold, use force. [Pointing at Meng:] You, Second Dragon8, you’re also in on this; you’re no exception, are you? That is to say, education is very messy; so at the level of education, you cannot exchange with Western nations; when it comes to exchange, there comes repugnance. Western civilisation: it’s best if we don’t use it, because this civilisation, Chinese, is a community, serving a very large family. Western nations are not like this: they love to do whatever they like; this is not okay in China. What do you think, bro’?

务。西方国家就不这样，爱干嘛干嘛，在中国不行。你说呢，二哥？ 孟： 我想请教一个问题。 蒋： 你说。 孟： 你说，人活着，是有意义还是没有意义？ 蒋： 那要看他做些什么。 孟： 你接着说。 蒋： 你想，如果我把我个人的利益放在第二，把公众的利益、大家的利益、共同的利益 [放在第

Meng: I would like to consult with you on one issue.

Jiang: Go ahead.

Meng: What do you think about “being alive”; does it have any meaning or not?

Jiang: That depends on what you do.

Meng: Go on.

Jiang: Just think, if you subordinate your own interests to the interests of public and community.

That’s my maxim in life, and thus my culture; you can communicate with abroad, because this immaterial culture, this immaterial civilisation can be exchanged abroad. But, education cannot be, because from the standpoint of education, in China, education is domestic education, and you cannot unite the two into one.

一；编者加注] 。这就是我的生活座右铭，这就是我的文化，对国外可以交流，因为这个非物 质的文化，非物质的文明可以和国外交流。但是，教育不能交流，因为在教育这件事上，国 内有国内的教育，教育不能合二为一。 孟： 看来你对集体比较有好感？ 蒋： 是啊。不仅有好感，而且情有独钟。 孟： 情有独钟？ 蒋： 因为我们是中国人，因为我们是共体，因为我们都为黄河服务。黄河，是中国人民共和国的 母亲河，不是长江。像美国，它的母亲河是密西西比河。我们不能离开这个河，所以说，要 为国家利益服务。 孟： 如果离开这个河呢？

Meng: It sounds as if you harbour comparatively positive sentiments towards the communality.

Jiang: Yes, indeed. Not only do I harbour positive sentiments toward it, it is the lodestone of my heart.

Meng: The lodestone of your heart?

Jiang: Because we are Chinese, because we are one community, because we all serve the Yellow River. The Yellow River, it is the mother river of the People’s Republic of China, not the Yangtze. Like America: Its mother river is the Mississippi River. We can’t ever abandon this river; therefore, I want to serve the interests of this nation.

Meng: And what if you do depart from this river?

Jiang: Then you have a culture devoid of value; you’re not any kind of person at all. Thus, regardless of what you do, you must indeed have an understanding that proceeds from the basis of the common weal. That is Chinese education.

Meng: Do you have a girlfriend at present?

Jiang: What are you saying; it’s making me blush.

蒋： 那就一文不值，你什么人都不是，你不是人。所以，不管你干什么，一定要懂得按大局利益 出发。那就是中国的教育。

Meng: I’m saying, if you do, you do; if you don’t, you don’t.

Jiang: [No response.]

蒋： 你说什么呀，你让我脸红了。

Meng: You’re not willing to discuss this matter, are you?

Jiang: What matter?

孟： 我说的是，要有就有，没有就没有。

Meng: The question of a girlfriend.

Jiang: Marriage?

孟： 你现在有没有女朋友？

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31

蒋： [不接话] 孟： 你不愿意谈这个问题，对吧？

Meng: Yes. Jiang: [Clears throat:] We’ll talk about this later, because I haven’t reached the point of talking about marriage yet. Look, you recently had a kid, whereas I have not yet married. [Smiling:] So there’s no way to talk about this.

蒋： 什么问题？ 孟： 是女朋友的问题。

Meng: Okay, we won’t talk about it. Look, people today like money more and more; what is your view?

Jiang: Money’s okay, as long as you don’t want too much; that can easily lead to crime. What do you think, bro’?

蒋： 是婚姻吗？ 孟： 对。 蒋： [清喉咙] 这个到时候再谈，因为我现在还没到谈婚嫁的时候。你看，你最近都有孩子了，我 还没结婚呐。 （笑）这事没法谈。 孟： 那就不谈了。你看，现在的人都越来越喜欢钱，你怎么看？ 蒋： 钱虽好，但不能过多，多了就容易犯罪。你说呢，二哥？ 孟： 你怎么控制它？ 这个是你的茶。 蒋： 噢。这茶挺好喝。这个是什么茶？

Meng: How do you control it? Here’s your tea.

Jiang: Oh, this tea is quite good. What kind of tea is it?

Meng: This is cinnamon tea, crag tea.9 Jiang: Not bad—quite tasty, quite good.

Meng: When you finish the tea, do you want to eat something?

Jiang: They have food here too?

Meng: We can go somewhere else.

Jiang: It doesn’t matter.

Meng: This place may well have an abundance of beverages, but not food. What do you like to eat best in Kaifeng?

Jiang: I like the steamed stuffed buns at First Mansion.

蒋： 不错，挺有风味的，挺好。

Meng: Okay, we’ll go to First Mansion later. Which is the most traditional? Tell us, neither of us is very familiar with this.

Jiang: I’m no more familiar than you are.

孟： 你喝完茶，想吃什么？

Meng: I know, is it in that old store?

Jiang: Yes, it is.

孟： 这个是肉桂，这个是岩茶。

蒋： 这里也有？

Meng: Do you eat the pure meat filling buns, or the pure vegetable filling buns, or the…?

Jiang: Whatever. I really want to study photography. Can you teach me, bro’? 孟： 也可以换个地方。 蒋： 没关系。

Meng: I can’t, either; I’m not a photographer. [Pointing at He:] He is.

孟： 这个地方可能吃的没有喝的丰富。开封你最喜欢吃什么？ 蒋： 我喜欢第一楼的包子。

He: Can you talk about what you know about photography?

Jiang: There are many types of photography: art photography, professional photography and unprofessional, impromptu snapshots; these are all different areas.

孟： 那好，那我们一会儿去第一楼。哪个最正宗？你告诉我们，我们两个不太清楚。

He: What type do you like?

Jiang: I like impromptu snapshots.

蒋： 你比我清楚。

He: Why? Jiang: With impromptu snapshots, I have many choices, indoor or outdoor.

孟： 我知道，还是那个老店吗？ 蒋： 对，就那个老店。 孟： 那好。你吃纯肉的，还是纯素的，还是……？ 蒋： 这个我无所谓。我很想学摄影，不知二哥可不可以教我？

He: Why would you want to take these kinds of indoor and outdoor pictures?

Jiang: Because they are unprofessional. I like to be independent: whenever I see something good, I take a picture. For example, I like being in a pretty city covered with a riot of flowers, or having a scenic view or a distant vista, that’s what I really like. This thus develops in accordance with one’s own interests; you don’t have to apply yourself to taking shots, which is not very good, since this kind of thing is purely professional, like bro’ here, purely professional, not too good, since he wants to observe the standards of his profession.

孟： 我也不会，我不是摄影家，他是。 （指何适，简称：何）

蒋： 摄影有很多门类，艺术摄影、职业摄影和非职业性地随意拍，那都是不一样的地方。

Meng: You are not willing to observe professional standards?

Jiang: I am currently out of work, so I just engage in independent photography; how should I observe professional standards? Like bro’s professional standards; if you had independence, could you do it, bro’? You couldn’t. What do you think, bro’?

何： 你喜欢哪一类？

Meng: Why? Why do you say I couldn’t do it?

Jiang: Because journalists take professional photos, isn’t that right? Journalists’ activities are so

何： 你能不能谈谈你对摄影的理解？

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蒋： 我喜欢随意。

various, why? Because they have to conduct interviews and take photos on the spot; catch a news focus, a photographic focus, illegal/not illegal, legal/not legal, national reform, combating floods and conducting disaster relief—these all have photography as their focus.

When you bring along a news focus, this is of a newspaper or magazine kind, which is all pure professionalism, and one must observe the corresponding standards. This is professional journalism. I am unprofessional; since I take independent photos, I am an independent person. Like a fish that can’t leave the water, people also can’t leave their water. A fish out of water can’t live; people need forests, just the same as a fish needs water. I’m alive, I’m in the woods: I can choose independently. If you are backed into a corner, this is not good for people, or even fish: its space is restricted. What do you think? And if this corner is blocked, then the space is quite limited, right? I can only snap people, or these sofas. So between these two choices of shooting there is an essential difference. Why? This is indoor photography, outdoor photography—so between these two there is a different angle, a different culture and a different perspective from which to go and take photos. Just like the photo I took of you wearing glasses, I was unprofessional so that it would enable me to take photos from any angle. From right in the middle, from the side, looking up, bending over: just like a fish, I am very independent, like an independent person, like a female volleyball player.

何： 为什么？ 蒋： 在随意当中我可以多样选择，选择室内的，户外的。 何： 你为什么要拍这些室内的、户外的？ 蒋： 因为这是非职业性，我喜欢自由型的，看到什么好的，我拍一下。像繁花似锦的都城，像 风景啊、远景啊，这个我很喜欢。那是按自己的兴趣去发展，不能刻意去拍，那样就不 太好，如果这样的话就纯职业性，像二哥那样，纯职业性，那就不太好办，因为他要敬业 的。 孟： 你不愿意敬业吗？ 蒋： 我现在没有工作，我单凭一个自由型的摄影，我怎么能敬业？像二哥是个职业性，让你来个 自由型，你做得到吗，二哥？你做不到。你说呢，二哥？ 孟： 为什么？你说为什么做不到？ 蒋： 职业性的摄影有记者，对吧？记者的行当这么多，为什么呢？因为他要就地访谈，就地摄 影，新闻焦点，拍摄焦点，违法的、不违法的，合法的、不合法的；国家改革啦，抗洪救灾 啦，这都是焦点摄影。把焦点摄影拿过来，可以作为报刊啊杂志类的，这都是纯职业性，他 要敬业。这就是职业性记者。我是非职业的，因为是自由拍摄，我是自由人。就像鱼离不开 水，人也不能离开水。鱼离开水，不能活；人得林，如鱼得水一样。我是活的，我在林子里 面，我可以自由选择。如果你缩在一个角落里，人不行，鱼也不行，有它的空间局限，你说 呢？如果这儿拦起来，空间局域性很大，对吧？我只能拍人呀，拍这些沙发啊。所以这两者 之间也有本质的差异，质的飞跃。为什么呢？这是室内拍摄、户外拍摄，所以这两者之间 有不同的角度，不同的文化差异，不同的视角去拍摄。像当时我给你拍的戴眼镜的照片，我 就是非职业的，从哪个的角度拍就可以。从正中间拍，从侧面拍，仰拍俯拍都可以，像鱼一 样，我很自由，像自由人一样，像女排，是自由人。 孟： 为什么？为什么女排是自由人？ 蒋： 一点，五点，六点，七点，几个点跑，她像鱼一样，来回游动。人也一样。你选择了一项， 那这一项里有不一样的地方。那我为什么要学摄影？学普通摄影，学自由摄影，那样我就可

Meng: Why? Why are female volleyball players independent people?

Jiang: One o’clock, five o’clock, six o’clock, running around the clock, then she’s just like a fish, that goes back to its swimming.10 People are the same. You choose one thing, then within this thing there is a different space. So, why do I want to study photography? Study ordinary photography, independent photography? Because I can choose many types, I can shoot from every level, every angle. Unlike you: have to respect your profession, observing professionalism, since you have to grasp hold of this focus, you can’t move. What do you think, bro’? Just like He Shi: He’s a professional journalist, so what will he shoot? He’ll shoot that angle, news angle, to inform those at home and abroad, Overseas Chinese—that is pure professionalism, the desire to respect one’s profession. So they are different. What do you think, bro’? Just like some photos I took outside; it wasted a lot of my time. I had many choices. I shot this building; why did I shoot this particular building? Because I was clear in my mind, because these buildings are quite famous in history. I am independent, and can make many choices, go anywhere and shoot, unrestricted by spatial constraints. What do you think, bro’? That is lack of professionalism. Do you have any more questions?

Meng: Let me think some more.

Jiang: Asked by me, eh? Hey, hey!

Meng: Right.

以多样选择，那我就可以从各个方面，各个角度去拍摄。像你，敬业、职业性的，那么你要 抓住这个焦点，你动不了。你说呢，二哥？就像何适一样，他是职业性记者，那么他就要拍 什么呢？要拍那个，焦点，新闻焦点，让国内、外的，让侨民都知道，那就是纯职业性，要 敬业。所以这有不一样的地方。你说呢，二哥？ 像我刚才在外面拍的一些照片，让我挺费时间。我多样选择，我拍这一个楼，为什么拍这么 一个楼，我心里很清楚。因为这些楼，在历史上就很有名。我是自由型的，可以多样选择， 到哪儿都可以拍，不受地域、地理限制。你说呢，二哥？那就是非职业。 你还有什么问题么？

He: Do you like to shoot scenic views?

Jiang: Yes, scenery.

He: Anything else? What about flowers?

Jiang: That’s also scenery; I shoot it all, regardless of whether it is inside or outside, I shoot it all.

He: Why do you like shooting scenery?

Jiang: Because scenery has a lot of culture—immaterial culture, material culture.

He: So you don’t like taking pictures of people?

Jiang: Because I am not a taker of photos of persons.

孟： 我再想一想。 蒋： 被我问倒啦？嘿嘿！

He: Why are you not a taker of photos of persons?

Jiang: Photos of people are constrained.

孟： 对。

He: But scenery has no limits and is relatively independent, is that it?

Jiang: Right. Like I can also shoot inside, from any angle at all. I have so many choices!

何： 你喜欢拍风光？ 蒋： 对，风景。 34

He:

People—you can take pictures of any people you want at all, inside or outside, you can shoot them all.

35

何： 还有呢？还有花？ 蒋： 就是风景类的，我都拍，无论是室内、室外的，我都拍。 何： 为什么喜欢拍风景？ 蒋： 因为风景有很多文化；有非物质文化，物质文化。 何： 那你不喜欢拍人？ 蒋： 因为我不是搞人物拍摄。 何： 你为什么不搞人物拍摄啊？ 蒋： 人物拍摄有局限。 何： 那么风景没有局限，比较自由，是吧？ 蒋： 对。像我拍室内的也可以啊，从哪个角度都可以拍呀。我多样选择嘛！ 何： 人，你也可以拍你想拍的任何人呐，室内、室外都可以拍。 蒋： 是啊。但是人有局限，焦点在人的身上。在风景当中，不能加人。这样，要在外面拍也是好，根本就 没有一个人，对吧？我讲自由的，是自由拍摄。有竖拍的，横拍的，斜拍的，仰拍的，俯拍的，我跟鱼 一样，是活的，我可以多样选择。何适，你说呢？你是职业性的，你是鱼性摄影的，你应该知道。 何： 你喜欢鱼？ 蒋： 我喜欢很多鱼。我喜欢吃鱼、看鱼、观鱼，猜鱼、摸鱼儿我都喜欢，但是谈不上职业性。我 想，鱼也是活的，都要选择。 何： 你认为你喜欢鱼，是因为你觉得鱼很自由？ 蒋： 对。它是自由的，它在大海里自由。大海是无限空间，它是自由的，猫要抓它，抓不住，猫 本身不会游泳，猫科动物之中除了三种能游泳之外，都不会游泳。 孟： 哪三个？ 蒋： 狮、虎、豹，它们仨会游泳，猫不会，猫科动物的猫不会，因为猫本身不是旱水动物，它是 旱地动物。像狮子，它会游泳，老虎会游泳，豹子会游泳，海豚、鲸鱼、白鲨、白鳍豚、鳄 鱼都会游泳，它们都是两栖类动物啊，还有海豹啊、海狮啊、海象啊，都可以，它们都是象 鱼一样，但它们有都不是鱼，其实都是恐龙类的动物，所以它们退化了，跟鱼一样，但是它

Jiang: Yes indeed. But people have limits; the focus is on the human form. You can’t add people in the midst of scenery. This way, shooting outside is great, as long as there is no one, right?

I’m talking about independence; it is independent photography. There are vertical shots, horizontal shots, diagonal shots, upward shots, downward shots; I’m just like a fish, living, I can make many choices. He Shi, what do you think? You’re professional, are you a fish-style photographer? You should know.

He: Do you like fish?

Jiang: I like fish very much. I like to eat fish, see fish, watch fish, wonder about fish, stroke fish, all of it, but this is not professional talk. I think fish are also alive; all can make choices.

He: You recognise that you like fish. Is this because you feel that fish are very independent?

Jiang: Right. It is independent, independent in the ocean. The ocean is an unlimited space, so it is independent; if a cat wants to catch it, it can’t grab it. Cats’ bodies can’t swim. None of the feline family can swim, apart from the three kinds that can.

Meng: Which three?

Jiang: Lions, tigers and leopards—those three can swim, cats can’t. Cats of the feline family can’t swim because their bodies are not those of early aquatic animals, but rather of early land animals. Like a lion, which can swim, a tiger which can swim and a leopard which can swim, dolphins, whales, great white sharks, Chinese finless porpoises, crocodiles: all can swim because they’re all amphibians. Also, there are seals, sea lions and sea elephants; they all can. They are all like fish, but they are all not fish; actually, they are all of the dinosaur family, so they evolved in reverse to be like fish, but they are all amphibious. Just imagine, after dinosaurs died out, they may well have evolved. Like you, Brother Meng; you are a master of fine arts, but are now transforming into a master photographer; this is a quantum leap in substance. Whoa, I made a new discovery…

Meng: Why does a master of fine arts becoming a master of photographer constitute a quantum leap?

Jiang: From the standpoint of fine art, you can choose coloured depiction or black and white depiction, or black and coloured depiction; this is a restriction imposed by fine art. It can’t be too independent, or the picture will not be aesthetically pleasing. So you can’t have too much independence, because when you set pen to paper you may draw a dragon or tiger11 or even dinosaurs, but eyes as they are rather hard to draw. It’s just like the world of martial arts; one has to abide its standard, right? Just like you are comparing between weapons, fitting in its standard. Like the world of martial arts, all the way up to now, right? You are like a weapon.

And so it has limits, it may not say ‘Oh, I want to draw people, but I draw animals; I want to draw animals, but I draw people instead—that’s not okay, it’s also not independent. It’s just like an animal: an animal is evolving, and so has no independence. From dinosaurs to the human race, it was an evolutionary function. Evolve, develop, from monkeys to chimps; chimp-monkey, this is an evolutionary function, and in this way, it loses its original limitations and bodily characteristics; you uplift yourself at the most basic level. From being a quadruped to becoming a biped; again, it’s not the same.

们都是两栖类动物。你想，恐龙灭亡以后，索性转换。像你孟二哥，你是美术师，现在你又 改成摄影师了，也有质的飞跃。唉，我有一个新的发现…… 孟： 为什么美术师变成摄影师，就是质的飞跃了？ 蒋： 从美术的角度，你可以选择彩绘，也可以选择黑白绘、黑彩绘；这就是美术的一个局限，它不 能太自由了，太自由了，那画不好看。不能太自由，因为毕竟你下笔处，应该点到为止，画龙 画虎，还是画恐龙，画睛，眼睛还是很难画。像武术界，有点到为止，对吧？你比兵器，点到 为止就合适。所以说它有局限，它不能噢我想画人，我画动物，我想画动物，我又画人，那就 不行，它并不自由。就像一个动物一样，动物是进化论，它并不自由。从恐龙，到人类，它又 进化功能，进化、演化，从猿到猩、猩猿这么一个进化功能，这样它失去了它原有的局限，本 质的差异，在质的方面抬高了自己。从四脚走路，到两只脚走路，又不一样。 孟： 如果我画你，你希望画成什么样的？ 36

Meng: If I portray you, what form do you hope the image assumes?

Jiang: Anything’s fine.

Meng: Would you prefer just a head or a full-body portrait?

Jiang: Whatever, no problem.

Meng: Using what method?

Jiang: Anything at all, no limits.

Meng: Employing what kind of character?

Jiang: Anything at all, you choose. You shouldn’t rely on others to decide for you, or to control or limit you; these are all criminal activities, impermissible at the level of law. What do you think, eh?

Meng: If I have an exhibition—an art exhibition with your portraits—would you be willing to attend the opening ceremony?

37

蒋： 都可以。 孟： 是画一个头像，还是全身呢？ 蒋： 无所谓，没关系。 孟： 用什么方式？ 蒋： 都可以，不局限。 孟： 用什么风格？ 蒋： 都可以，这你自己选择。不要靠人为去选择，不能靠人为去控制、限制，这都是违法行为， 这在法律上是不允许的。你说呢？ 孟： 如果我有展览，一个画展，画的有你，你愿意去参加开幕式吗？ 蒋： 我愿意，因为我是主人公，我是你绘画的模特儿，我要负全责。我要对你负责，对画展负 责。 因为你把我画得高大、威猛，把我画得唯妙唯肖，栩栩如生，形象逼真，那么我就是你 的主人，你要为我服务，那么我也要为你服务，对吧？我把我身体给你了，那么你要为我服

Jiang: I’m willing, because I’m the starring role, I’m the model you’re portraying, so I will accept all responsibility, all responsibility vis-à-vis the art exhibition. Because you will portray me as tall and big, mighty and brave, produce a striking replica of me, vividly lifelike and true-to-life form; since I am your leading star, you will be performing a service for me, so that I will also perform a service for you, right? So I’ll entrust my body to you, so that you will perform this service for me. You’re a designer, a painter. I had better just shoot; it’s this way: it has a lot of focus. For instance, I shoot you, I could photograph your glasses, nose, mouth and ears; this would be very wide in scope, limitlessly so. This is a bodily characteristic, because it marks a breakthrough in this framework’s remaining restrictions, an essential quantum leap. You portray me, I serve as a support, right? Just think, behind every great art master, there is his teacher, instructor or professor; just like a kind of flower petal, slowly, slowly supporting the execution of your portrait.

Leaves will fall, right? After leaves fall, one lone bough shoots over the wall, I rapidly project out; it’s just like this, a quantum leap in substance, a plum bough projecting over the wall. Since I am your master, I am your client, and you have to serve a client, a customer, but not for your personal interests—you yourself do not need my service. This is my credo, my principle.

Meng: A question just reoccurred to me.

Jiang: Go ahead and ask.

Meng: At the art opening, do you want to eat vegetarian food or meat? I’ll make preparations.

Jiang: Meat or veggie, no restrictions.

务。你是位美工，画工。我索性拍，这样呐，它有很多焦点。像你，我可以拍你的眼镜，鼻 子，嘴和耳朵，这就是很广阔，无限地广阔。这就是本质的差异，因为它突破了这个框痕约 束，质的飞跃。你画我，等于我把你托起来了，对吧？你想，很多美术师的后面，都有他的 老师、教工、教师，就是一种花瓣一样，把你的画慢慢慢慢托起来。叶子要脱落，对吧？脱 落以后，一枝独秀出墙来，我忒地就出去了，这样呐，就是质的飞跃，这就是一枝梅花出墙 来。因为我是你的主人，我是你的顾客，你要为顾客服务，为用户服务，而不是为你本人服 务，你本人不会需要我的服务。这就是我的信条，我的理念。 孟： 我再想问一个。 蒋： 问吧。 孟： 开幕式，你是想吃素菜还是想吃肉？我准备。 蒋： 我荤素不限。

Meng: Do you want hot or cold food?

Jiang: Hot, cold—whatever. With regard to cold food, I can drink it all12, since I am not on a diet.

Meng: Okay. For drinks, do you want coffee or tea?

Jiang: Whatever, hot or cold—I can drink it all, but I can’t take it boiling hot.

Meng: Boiling hot—how’s that?

Jiang: It might peel off my skin; I burn easily. Why do you add water to fried dumplings at home?

Because the water is liquid. With hot water, it tastes good, but hot water burns! I eat, I eat well; eating makes you healthy. Am I not entirely cultured? Aren’t you the same, bro’? Lots of choices, when eating, I have lots of choices. Look, I eat this, and drink tea or water; it’s not an essential difference, a quantum leap, is it? So many cultured people follow their own inclinations; one may not because of the needs of one’s own generation, not allow the next generation to live.

Meng: Who would act that way?

Jiang: Anyone could act that way.

孟： 你想吃热的，想吃冷的？ 蒋： 冷热无所谓，我连凉菜都能喝，所以我不忌口。

Meng: What I’m saying is who did act that way?

Jiang: My parents did.

孟： 那好。饮料，咖啡还是茶？

Meng: You don’t like it.

Jiang: I don’t like it. It’s not that I don’t like it; it’s simply not reflective of the law’s restrictions.

蒋： 无所谓，凉的、热的我都可以喝，但不能滚烫。 孟： 滚烫了，怎么呢？ 蒋： 我会脱皮，容易烫。在家里煎饺子为什么加水？因为有汤，是液体。有汤很好喝，汤 —— 烫！ 我吃，是吃好，吃出健康，这不都是文化吗？你二哥不也是一样吗？多样选择，我在吃 上多样选择。你看，我吃了这个，又喝了茶还有白水，这不都是本质的差异，质的飞跃吗？ 所以很多文化靠自己随心所欲，不能噢为了你一代人的需要，不让下一代人生活。 孟： 谁是这样干的？ 蒋： 谁都可以干。 孟： 我是说谁是这样干的？你发现了没有？ 38

Meng: For the benefit of which generation did they act?

Jiang: I’m not criticizing your parents; we all have parents, and they all consider only their own needs—your old pop, Meng Qingzhang13, and my parents were both only serving their own interests. They provided food and clothing but they imposed restrictions: they told you how much to eat, ate theirs, and then wanted to eat yours too, which is not legal. Don’t forget: you’re a family elder. Afterwards, I could have married and had my own kids, in the way that one generation succeeds another, just look and consider: are we people who take over from one another or succeed one another? If you harm them, you harm that next generation, and harm your own grandchildren—you harm three generations. If they let you do this, bro’, could you? Well? The crane and the clam fought and it only benefited the old fisherman.14 Meng: Who is the old fisherman?

Jiang: Illegal conduct. Like my parents—abusive, humiliating and vituperative—I don’t understand! Over a trivial matter, you reach out and thrash your children’s bodies; great shocks to 39

蒋： 我父母就是这样。 孟： 你不喜欢？ 蒋： 我不喜欢。不是我不喜欢，不符合法律限制。 孟： 他们为了哪一代人？ 蒋： 我不是骂你父亲，我们都有父母，他们都考虑自己的需要，你的老父亲孟庆章 [孟煌父亲实

their psyches. Attacking their bodies—it is illegal behaviour in law, and illegal upbringing.

Meng: Did you talk with them?

Jiang: I couldn’t; they said that they were doing this for the benefit of their kids! Talking or not talking was my own need: I didn’t talk because I was afraid they would get upset. I always had to think of them. This conduct of theirs was illegal; they only thought of their own adult needs.

If it wasn’t okay for them, they would start to beat, scold, confine, chide, coerce, confiscate belongings and physically abuse and humiliate you, just to control you, to control you from within your own heart.

名为商幸丰；编者注] ，我的父母，他们都是为自己服务的，给你吃的、穿的，他们在这个上 面给你限制，吃多少，吃什么，吃了自己的，还要吃你的，那就不合法。别忘了你是长辈， 以后我也可能结婚，有自己的孩子，这样一代传一代，你想想看，我们是接班人还是传接

Meng: You can’t talk about any happy matters, can you?

Jiang: Happy times were when they caressed you, made cooing sounds, tickled you; unhappy times were when they kicked you.

人？害了你们自己，害了下一代，还害了你们孙子辈，害了三代人，让你二哥这样做，你会 吗？何必呢？河蚌相争，渔翁得利。 孟： 哪个是渔翁？ 蒋： 不合法的行为。像我父母，毒打、辱骂、诽谤，不理解！遇事大打出手，对子女身体、心理 双重地袭击。人身攻击，在法律上是不合法的行为，也是不合法的教育。 孟： 那你跟他们谈过了吗？ 蒋： 谈不拢，他们说，我们也是为了你啊！我说不说是我自己的需要，我不说是怕你着急。我是 为他们考虑，他们这样做是不合法，他们只是从老人的需要考虑，不行就打骂、关、卡、 压、抢劫、毒打辱骂，就控制你，从你心里控制你。 孟： 有没有高兴的事情可以谈一谈？ 蒋： 高兴的时候就摸你一把，咯吱咯吱你，摸你痒痒，不高兴的时候踹你一脚。 孟： 高兴的时候是什么时候？看书，看电视？ 蒋： 看书，看电视，吃肉都可以。就像你二哥，对我就像对父亲一样对待我。你年龄比我大 [孟煌 年龄实际比蒋震宇小；编者注] ，四处让着我，北京老大哥，从你大哥到老三弟，对我就像老 大哥一样爱我。没有管我，但是爱我，这就是一种文明的方式，无论我犯什么错，什么罪，

Meng: Happy times are when? Reading, watching TV? Jiang: Reading, watching TV, eating meat—all are okay. Just like you, bro’, you treat me just like a father. You’re older than me.15 Everywhere I rely on you, big brother from Beijing, you and Third Little Brother.16 You love me just like a big brother. Don’t mind me, just love me—this is a cultured method. Even if I do the wrong things, whatever the mistake, just forgive me in your heart, be lenient. What do you think, bro’?

Meng: We’ve talked so much, I’d like to tell you: we may have an exhibition, with many friends attending, both Chinese and foreign; would you like to say something to them?

Jiang: Okay. An exhibition! I’d like to say to them that at the level of education, a degree of decency is desirable, one that does not overstep the interests of this country. Just think, we Chinese have Chinese education, communal-style education. Abroad they have foreign education, individualised education. Everyone has their own way of doing things, and this is very good, but theirs does not suit China.

Meng: Why? Jiang: Because China has communal-style education, with service as its focus, because China is centred on the Yellow River; America has Mississippi River education, Japan has Yamato17 education. Viewed from an overall perspective, China, the People’s Republic of China, East Asia, all of the island nations of the South Pacific, the Republic of Mongolia and Hungary— each is Chinese national territory. Indivisible, all are ancillary states, so mighty! All have been severed, but even if you sever some more, you cannot ever sever the heart of China; you can’t remove the imprint of China. It is stamped on your back, engraved onto your heart. You can never forget that you’re Chinese.

都有包容之心、宽容度。二哥，你说呢？ 孟： 我们谈了这么多，我想告诉你，我们可能有一个展览，有很多朋友，中国的和外国的，你想 对他们说什么？ 蒋： 可以。展览嘛！我想对他们说，在教育方面一定要把好度，不能超过你本国利益。你想，我 们中国有中国的教育，是共性教育。外国有外国的教育，是分散教育，各人有各人的事做， 这很好，但在中国就不合适。 孟： 为什么？ 蒋： 因为中国是共性教育，为了一个焦点服务，因为中国是以黄河为局限的，美国——密西西比 河教育，在日本，大合教育。但总体看来，中国，中华人民共和国、东南亚、南太平洋各个 岛国、蒙古共和国和匈牙利，一个是中国版图，你不能分割，都是附属国，多么强大！都分 出去了，但是你再分，你分不开的是中国心，去不掉的是中国印。在你背上是中国印，这个 中国印刻在你心里，你永远不会忘记你是中国人。 孟： 你对台湾怎么看？ 蒋： 就是海外，他独立不了啊，他也是中国人呐，他孤立不了啊。他一定要逆天行，逆天时另立 40

Meng: What is your view of Taiwan?

Jiang: They’re overseas alright, but can’t be independent; they’re also Chinese, and thus cannot be on their own. They go against heaven; they’re renegade vassals opposing heaven. This kind of conduct is also illegal and violates international law. China will be the world’s policeman, directly intervening, dispatching an enforcement squad.

Meng: Do you want to take part in this?

Jiang: I can’t participate; I am a citizen, not a government official, nor a member of an enforcement squad, so I have no means of participating. I can’t participate, since this is a matter of Chinese politics, and I’m not a politician, but an independent person. It’s not that I’m not concerned: the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak and lacking in ability, because this matter is beyond regular citizens. There are also citizens, children and daughter-in-laws in Taiwan.

Pandas—yes pandas—Taiwanese all like them. The Olympic games are being hosted in China. Taiwan will also take part, but the torch relay will not travel through Taiwan, something that was decided by the Taiwanese government, not its citizens. After all, the torch has to travel through Taiwan; therefore, opposing the Olympic games by refusing to allow the torch in Taiwan is illegal conduct by the Taiwanese government. Borges18 announced to Taiwan: “You can’t just refuse to let the torch travel in Taiwan. It’s like, if I go directly to Taiwan, will you refuse me entry? Can you refuse a fellow Chinese? A country’s Olympic chairman? I am from an international organisation, and will not accept any country’s restrictions. I am a fish, I have my independence, I am an independent person; my independent body is entering 41

诸侯，那他这样做也是违法行为，大陆必须要干涉。他们违反国际法，中国为出使国际刑

your Taiwan, which is a province of China, a region, so you have no authority to bar my access”. The Olympic torch must traverse Taiwan; this is a kind of culture; culture is a doubleedged sword. I use it to hack at you, but also cut myself. While serving a country’s national interests, governmental interests, on behalf of its citizens, serving its culture, this is indeed a double-edged sword. This is thus law, which doesn’t permit you to violate the law; this is the hallmark of legitimacy. This is thus a divergence in essence, an essential difference.

警，直接插手，同时出使部队。 孟： 你想参与吗？ 蒋： 我不能参与，我是一个市民，不是政府官员，不是部队成员，我无法参与，我不能参与，因 为这是国家政务，我不是政客，我是自由人。不是我不关心，是心有余而力不足，我没有这 个能力，因为这个事与市民无关。因为台湾有许多市民、小孩、媳妇。熊猫，也就是猫熊，

Meng: Thank you. Now let’s go eat.

Jiang: Okay!

他们都喜欢。奥运会在中国举行，台湾也要参加，但是火炬不让传到台湾，这是他们政府支 持，与市民无关，但是火炬必须传到台湾，所以台湾这样做也是一种违法行为，他阻止了奥

Translator: Ben Armour

运会的举行。所以博格（指奥委会主席罗格）说了，你不能阻止火炬进入台湾，我直接进入 台湾，你能拒绝我吗？你能拒绝一个华人吗？一个国奥会主席吗？我来自国际组织，我不受 任何国家的约束，我是一条鱼，我有我的自由；我自由人，我自由身体进入你台湾，台湾是 中国的一个省，一个地区，你没有资格拦我，奥运火炬必须通过台湾，这就是一种文化，文 化是一个双刃剑，我砍了你，也砍了我。同时为它的国家利益服务，为政府服务，为它的市 民、文化服务，这就是双刃剑。这就是法律，它不允许你违反法律，这就是合法身份。这就 是本质的差异，质的区别。 孟： 谢谢你。那我们去吃饭。 蒋： 可以！

* Footnotes represent annotations by the editor/translator and are not a part of the original interview transcript.

1

Standard English spelling employs the Wade-Giles Pinyin Romanization; in Mandarin, Chiang Kai-shek is Jiang Jieshi (Hanyu Pinyin Romanization).

2

Traditional characters are as opposed to the simplified characters currently used in the Mainland and introduced by Communist authorities in the 1950s as a means to promote literacy. Traditional characters are still used in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau and by large sectors of Overseas Chinese.

3

Sima is an ancient title of rank denoting the military governor of a province or territory.

4

These actual historical figures who are also characters in Romance of the Three Kingdoms loom large in Chinese historical lore: warriors, sages, statesmen, military geniuses, adventurers, heroes, rascals and famed beauties (the Qiao sisters), like Helen of Troy, ravishing enough to goad men to war. If the reader imagines Socrates and Carl von Clausewitz both present at and participating in the Siege of Troy, that will convey some indication of the sweep of the novel and the turbulent era (Period

中文整理：苏晓琴、孟煌

of the Three Kingdoms — Shu-Han, Wei and Wu — ca. AD 190-263) it describes. See generally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Conquest_of_Shu_by_Wei. 5

Jiang Zhenyu actually refers to Meng Huang as ‘second older brother’, contracted to ‘bro’’ herein for the sake of simplicity and vernacular verisimilitude.

6

Master painters of the Qing dynasty (AD 1644-1911) centred in Yangzhou, Jiangsu Province. Art historians differ as to the precise number included under this rubric, but they are generally held to include: Zheng Xie, Luo Pin, Li Fangying, Huang Shen, Gao Xiang, Li Shan, Jin Nong and Wang Shishen. Their style consists of simple, yet compellingly depicted monochrome-toned, still life, portrait and landscape works, with the lattermost often being oversized representations of bamboo leaves, grasses, flowers, etc., done in a manner reminiscent of, e.g., Albrecht Dürrer’s Monumental Turf , but with an element of the abstract imparting an air of dreamy surrealism.

7

The northern dialect of Mandarin is known for pronouncing an “r” sound at the end of words and phrases. For example, ‘fanguan’r’ (restaurant) instead of ‘fanguan’.

8

Meaning ‘second-born son’ and thus here ‘elder brother’.

9

A type of Oolong tea grown in the mountains of northern Fujian Province.

10

An impression presumably gained from watching beach volleyball on TV (which often has a decidedly voyeuristic ‘slant’ in China).

11

Apparently corrupted form of a Chinese saying: ‘When drawing a dragon or tiger it is easy to show its skin or scales, but not its bones’—meaning to ‘have superficial knowledge of someone or something’.

42

12

Sic.

13

Meng Huang’s father’s real name is Shang Xingfeng.

14

Old Chinese proverb: the crane seized the clam and the clam closed its shell over the crane’s beak leaving them both immobilized and thus easy prey for the old fisherman.

15

Meng Huang is actually younger than Jiang Zhenyu.

16

Referring to He Shi.

17

Designation for the ethnic majority in Japan constituting 99% of the population, as contrasted with the aboriginal Ainus, ethnic Koreans and others.

18

He meant Jacques Rogge, eighth president of the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

43

孟煌

Meng Huang 生于北京

1966

1966

born in Beijing, China lives and works in Beijing, China and Berlin, Germany

独立艺术家，目前生活和工作在北京、柏林

Solo Exhibitions

个展 2008

“你说呢？风景”，麦勒画廊 北京－卢森， 中国，北京

2006

“孟煌——水景”，麦勒画廊 北京－卢森，瑞士，卢森 “风景”，力透空间，中国，北京

2008

“And What do You Think? Landscapes”, Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne, Beijing, China

2006

“Meng Huang - Waterscapes”, Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne, Lucerne, Switzerland “Windscape”, Litou Space, Beijing, China

1999

“Meng Huang - Solo Exhibition”, China Art Archives & Warehouse (CAAW), Beijing, China

1999

“孟煌个展”，中国艺术文件仓库（CAAW） ，中国，北京

1990

“Meng Huang - Drawings, Sculptures, Gouaches”, Henan University, Kaifeng, China

1990

“素描水粉彩雕塑展”，河南大学，中国，开封

1986

“Meng Huang - Drawings and Watercolors”, Zhengzhou Youth Palace, Zhengzhou, China

1986

“孟煌——素描水彩展”，郑州市青少年宫，中国，郑州

Selected Group Exhibitions 主要联展 2006

“麻将——希克中国现代艺术收藏展”，汉堡艺术馆，德国，汉堡

2005

“中国：当代艺术的方向”，Oberdan空间，意大利，米兰

2006

“Mahjong - Chinesische Gegenwartskunst aus der Sammlung Sigg”, Hamburger Kunsthalle, Hamburg, Germany

2005

“Cina. Prospettive d’arte contemporanea / China: As Seen by Contemporary Chinese Artists”, Provincia di Milano, Spazio Oberdan, Milan, Italy

“形象的基因：中国制造”，麦勒画廊 北京－卢森，瑞士，卢森

“Pictorial DNA Made in China”, Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne, Lucerne, Switzerland

“麻将——希克收藏中国现代艺术品展”，伯尔尼美术馆，瑞士，伯尔尼

“Mahjong - Chinesische Gegenwartskunst aus der Sammlung Sigg”, Kunstmuseum Bern, Berne, Switzerland

“翻手为云，覆手为雨”，TS1（宋庄一号）当代艺术中心，中国，北京 2003

“七件作品”，中国艺术文件仓库（CAAW） ，中国，北京

“Conspire”, TS1, Beijing, China 2003

“交融——中国、韩国、马来西亚、新加坡 9 位艺术家作品展”，季节画廊（北京画廊）， 中国，北京

“Landscapes”, X-Ray Art Centre, Beijing, China

“风景”，犀锐艺术中心，中国，北京 2001

“中国艺术文件仓库（CAAW）开幕展”，中国，北京

2001

“真实可能”，中央美院画廊，中国，北京

2000

44

Inauguration Exhibition of the New Gallery, China Art Archives & Warehouse (CAAW), China Art Archives & Warehouse (CAAW), Beijing, China “Reality Possibility”, The Art Gallery of Central Academy of Fine Art, Beijing, China

“新配方”，东大名创库，中国，上海

“New Prescription”, Dongdaming Creative Space, Shanghai, China

“艺术家仓库”联展，中国，北京

Inauguration of Artists Warehouse, Artists Warehouse, Beijing, China

“相聚德胜门”，德胜门，中国，北京

“Being Together at Deshengmen”, Deshengmen, Beijing, China

“第一届成都双年展”，成都现代艺术馆，中国，成都

“1st Chengdu Biennial”, Chengdu Museum of Modern Art, Chengdu, China

“主题·媒介·意义—— 各就各位”，中央美院画廊，中国，北京

2000

“不合作方式”，西苏州河路1133号，中国，上海 1999

“7 Works”, China Art Archives & Warehouse (CAAW), Beijing, China “Interfusion – 9 Leading Artists from China, Korea, Malaysia, Singapore”, Art Seasons Gallery, Beijing, China

“1999 观念，色彩和感性”，中国艺术文件仓库（CAAW） ，中国，北京

“Subject-Media-Meaning - Everyone His Own Position”, Museum of the Central Academy of Fine Arts, Beijing, China “Fuck Off”, Eastlink Gallery, Shanghai, China

1999

“1999 Concepts, Colors and Passions”, China Art Archives & Warehouse (CAAW), Beijing, China

45

出版文献

Publications

出版物

Publications

麦勒画廊卢森－北京（编） （2006） ， 《孟煌》，北京：麦勒画廊，东八时区出版

Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne, TimeZone 8 Ltd. (Eds.) (2006). Meng Huang. Beijing.

文献节选

Selected Bibliography

莫妮卡·德玛黛（Monica Dematté） （2006） ， 《在任何情况下，生命都有理》，发表于麦勒画廊 北京－卢 森（编） 《孟煌》，北京：麦勒画廊，东八时区出版 ，2-4页

Liu Xiaobo (2007). A Conversation between Meng Huang and Liu Xiaobo. Available: http://new.artzinechina.com/display_vol_aid568_en.html. Last accessed 16 April 2008.

刘小波和孟煌（2006） ， 《孟煌和刘小波谈话录》，发表于麦勒画廊 北京－卢森（编）《孟煌》，北京： 麦勒画廊，东八时区出版 ，12-16页

Liu Xiaobo, Meng Huang (2006). Recording of a conversation between Meng Huang and Liu Xiaobo. In: Meng Huang. Beijing: Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne, TimeZone8 Ltd. (Eds). pp. 18-24.

箫岭（Nataline Colonnello）和孟煌 （2006） ， 《箫岭和孟煌访谈》，发表于麦勒画廊 北京－卢森（编） 《孟煌》，北京：麦勒画廊，东八时区出版 ，26-28页

Dematté, M. (2006). Life is right, in any case (Rainer Maria Rilke). In: Meng Huang. Beijing: Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne, TimeZone8 Ltd. (Eds). pp. 6-10.

（2005） ， 《中国当代艺术的方向》，意大利：Oberdan空间，米兰Skira出版，25页 Daniela Palazzoli（编）

Colonnello, N., Meng Huang (2006). Interview with Meng Huang by Nataline Colonnello. In: Meng Huang.

Beijing: Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne, TimeZone8 Ltd. (Eds). pp. 30-34.

（2005） ，箫岭（Nataline Colonnello） ，发表于《麻将 —— 希克收藏中国现代艺术品 Hatje Cantz（编） 展》，166-167页。

Palazzoli, D. (2005). Cina. Prospettive d’Arte Contemporanea. Milano: Skira Editore. p. 25.

箫岭（Nataline Colonnello） （2005） ， 《形象的基因》，发表于麦勒画廊 北京－卢森 展览《形象的基因： 中国制造》新闻稿，载于： “http://www.galerieursmeile.com”

Colonnello, N. (2005). Meng Huang. In: Mahjong. Contemporary Chinese Art from the Sigg Collection.

Ostfildern-Ruit: Hatje Cantz. pp. 166-167.

箫岭（ Nataline Colonnello ） （ 2003 ）， 《视觉反论中的一场对话》，孟煌和邱世华的访谈 / 对话，载 于：”http://www.arts.tom.com”

Colonnello, N. (2003). Black/Spot /Light – A Dialogue Between Visual Paradoxes. Interview/ Dialogue between the painters Meng Huang and Qiu Shihua. Available: http://arts.tom.com. Last accessed 15 April 2008.

杨卫（2003） ， 《风景》，发表于犀锐艺术中心 北京（编）北京：犀锐艺术中心出版，76-79页 孟煌（2002） ， 《第一届成都双年展》，成都：四川美术出版社，368-371页。 孟煌（2000） ， 《不合作方式》，发表于东廊画廊，上海：上海东廊画廊和艾未未联合出版 92-95 页 孟煌， 《风景》，发表于《TENDENCY》 第13期 ，波士顿： 《TENDENCY》出版， 285页

Gu Zhenqing (2001). Meng Huang. In: Chengdu Biennale 2001 (Exhibition Catalogue). Chengdu China: Sichuan Fine Arts Publishing House. pp. 368-371.

Ai Weiwei, Feng Boyi (Eds.) (2000). Meng Huang. In: Fuck Off (Exhibition Catalogue). Shanghai: Eastlink Gallery. pp. 92-95.

孟煌（1996），楚布寺，发表于《东方艺术》，第2期

46

47

出版：麦勒画廊 北京- 卢森 编辑：麦勒画廊 北京- 卢森 文章：箫岭、乐大豆 翻译：Ben Armour、黄一 校对：Ben Armour（英） 、申彤（中） 、Philana Woo（英） 设计：李建辉 摄影：孙建伟 © 2008 麦勒画廊 北京- 卢森，孟煌 印刷：中国，北京

Published by: Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing - Lucerne Edited by: Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing - Lucerne Texts: Nataline Colonnello, Davide Quadrio Translation: Ben Armour, Huang Yi Copy Editing: Ben Armour (E), Anya Shen (C), Philana Woo (E) Design: Li Jianhui Photography: Sun Jianwei © 2008 Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing - Lucerne, Meng Huang All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including but not limited to photocopying, recording or by any information storage and retrieval system without written permission from the publisher.

Printed in China

麦勒画廊，北京市朝阳区草场地104号，邮编 100015，电话 + 86 10 643 333 93 Galerie Urs Meile, No.104, Caochangdi, Chaoyang District, Beijing, PRC 100015, T+ 86 10 643 333 93 Galerie Urs Meile, Rosenberghöhe 4, Lucerne, Switzerland 6004, T+ 41 41 420 33 18 galerie@galerieursmeile.com, www.galerieursmeile.com

合作画廊: 艺术文件仓库 Partner Gallery: China Art Archives & Warehouse (CAAW) 49

《国际脸一》2003, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm

"International Face No. 1" 2003, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

《国际脸二》2003, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm

"International Face No. 2" 2003, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

《国际脸三》2003, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm

"International Face No. 3" 2003, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

《国际脸四》2004, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm

"International Face No. 4" 2004, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

《国际脸五》2004, 布面油画, 280 x 180.5 cm

"International Face No. 5" 2004, oil on canvas, 280 x 180.5 cm

《国际脸二》2005, 布面油画, 280 x 179.8 cm

"International Face No. 2" 2005, oil on canvas, 280 x 179.8 cm

《国际脸一》2006, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm

"International Face No. 1" 2006, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

《国际脸二》2006, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm

"International Face No. 2" 2006, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

《国际脸一》2007, 布面油画, 279 x 184 cm

"International Face No. 1" 2007, oil on canvas, 279 x 184 cm

《国际脸二》2007, 布面油画, 279 x 184 cm

"International Face No. 2" 2007, oil on canvas, 279 x 184 cm

《国际脸三》2007, 布面油画, 279 x 184 cm

"International Face No. 3" 2007, oil on canvas, 279 x 184 cm

《国际脸五》2007, 布面油画, 280 x 180 cm

"International Face No. 5" 2007, oil on canvas, 280 x 180 cm

《失乐园》1998, 布面油画, 80 x 92 cm

"Paradise Lost" 1998, oil on canvas, 80 x 92 cm

《秘密池塘之四》2007, 布面油画, 220 x 400 cm

"Secret Pond No. 4" 2007, oil on canvas, 220 x 400 cm

《树》2007, 布面油画, 184 x 279 cm

"Tree" 2007, oil on canvas, 184 x 279 cm

《天空》2007, 布面油画, 184 x 279 cm

"Sky" 2007, oil on canvas, 184 x 279 cm

《云》2008, 布面油画, 220 x 400 cm

"Clouds" 2008, oil on canvas, 220 x 400 cm

《秘密池塘之五》2008, 布面油画, 220 x 400 cm

"Secret Pond No. 5" 2008, oil on canvas, 220 x 400 cm

《水》2008, 布面油画, 184 x 279 cm

"Water" 2008, oil on canvas, 184 x 279 cm

《风景 2006》写生现场照片 日期: 2006年4月, 地点: 中国北京凤凰岭

Photo of "Landscape 2006" (live painting performance) Date: April 2006, Place: Fenghuangling, Beijing, China

《风景2006》2006, 写生布面油画, 400 x 220 cm 日期: 2006年4月, 地点: 中国北京凤凰岭

"Landscape 2006" 2006, live painting performance, oil on canvas, 400 x 220 cm Date: April 2006, Place: Fenghuangling, Beijing, China

《板桥水库》2007, 布面油画, 350 x 1760 cm (8x 350 x 220 cm)

“Dam” 2007, oil on canvas, 350 x 1760 cm (8x 350 x 220 cm)