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Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek
A Russian article about the Russian Diver (updated with actual facts from Jim) The Russian Russian Diver that is... Run this through the translator of your choice: http://mediazavod.ru/articles/89612 Apparently the Clock and Stopwatch factory in Zlatoust have finally recognized the popularity of this type of watch and started a limited production of an updated 191-ChS, called 192-ChS http://agatfactory.com/index/?lang=r...=903&prods=act
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Chascomm View Public Profile Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #2 08-03-2010, 10:37 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm The Russian Russian Diver that is... Run this through the translator of your choice: http://mediazavod.ru/articles/89612 Hello WG's - this is my first post after joining recently and reading everything I can here. After doing much research (here and elsewhere) on the Russian Diver, I have been quite intrigued by this watch and am looking to obtain one of the reissued Invicta's with the Unitas movement. I read the translated article above, and it has lit a fire for also obtaining an original 1959 - but raises some of the concerns I've read elsewhere pertaining to the provenance of the original Invicta Russian Diver. In fact, there are several threads here at WG that delve into the history of the piece as well, in particular a lengthy thread in the Russian sub-forum. My chief concern from the linked article above, is the Zlatoust factory appears to be contradicting the official history as put forth by Invicta (and ShopNBC). In particular, the following quote from the article: Quote: "You can ask: but where is a mention about Invicta? Nowhere. There is no place for Invicta in the real history behind Zlatoust dive watches. Of course, it is not accidental that in 2003 Invicta watch company began to promote their watch line called “Russian Diver� and made them in the same style as famous Zlatoust 191ChS diver watches. As for the purposefulness of Invicta watches, they are more decorative
then really functional pieces seriously being inferior to Zlatoust 191-ChS ones in this point. Invicta is a Swiss watch company and is well-known from the middle of 19th century. In 1991 it was bought by American businessmen, who began to promote a very aggressive marketing strategy for the brand. The tall tale, which was chosen for promoting the so-called “Russian Diver” line was very interesting. They alleged that in 1959 the Soviet Navy General Headquarters chose Invicta as the best among other Swiss watch companies and, thus, the company was commissioned to make a limited edition of 100 dive watches, whether as prize watches for the best Navy divers or to compare the quality of Swiss watches to that of Soviet ones. As for the design, they say that the design of these watches was discovered among documents belonging to the grandmother of Eyal Lalo, the CEO of Invicta. According to their statements, the old sample was a thoroughly improved version and was the only real prototype of all diver watches made in Zlatoust. And that‟s why, as they conclude, Invicta has "moral rights" to produce watches of this design. Of course, not a single document or other serious evidence was introduced in order to prove it. All the respected specialists display irony towards their tall tale. Even the inscription on the dial of so-called “Russian Divers”, written intentionally (or maybe just through ignorance?) with glaring mistake as "ИМФ СССР" instead of "ВМФ СССР", indirectly show non-participation in creating the real Zlatoust diver watches. This type of a “mistake” is often used by the pirate companies stealing other companies ideas. However, this doesn‟t prevent Invicta from selling thousands of watches because their advertising strategy has worked out to influence average buyers who first buy a watch and then develop interest in its authenticity. Nowadays, the Invicta Russian Diver line numbers about thirty different models at the price range between $150 to $2000 and the basic model of this line, a copy of the real Zlatoust diver watch, Model 2625, with the price at $600. Invicta actively promote their watches through Internet sale sites and ShopNBC TV channel. Perfectly planned and methodically carried out, this strategy yields excellent results. Popularity of their so-called “Russian Divers” has greatly increased. This success has attracted Invicta competitors. And first of them all are Chinese “pirates”, absolute evil for all brands. Invicta does not conceal that their “Russian Divers” are being produced in South East Asia with slight usage of some Swiss and American components. And naturally as a second wave, a wide stream of primitive “Russian Divers” fakes appears now here and there." So is there any validity to this? Is this simply a case of sour grapes? I would like to purchase an original 1959 Invicta, are these difficult to find?
Thanks
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #3 08-03-2010, 10:49 PM Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia Posts: 164
Quote: Originally Posted by kmt I would like to purchase an original 1959 Invicta, are these difficult to find? So far as I'm aware, none have surfaced since Invicta launched their Russian Diver series. There was one photo posted on these forums showing an Invicta beside a watch that was claimed to be either a 1959 Invicta or an original Zlatoust watch (I don't recall which) however the details of the watch matched those of the 'Tourist Diver' replicas. Interestingly the above article identifies the source of the Tourist Divers as being St Petersberg, not Zlatoust as has been popularly understood until now.
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WatchGeeek Senior Member Veteran Geek
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Interesting information on Russian Diver. Thanks.
WatchGeeek View Public Profile Send a private message to WatchGeeek Find all posts by WatchGeeek Add WatchGeeek to Your Contacts #5 08-03-2010, 11:31 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm So far as I'm aware, none have surfaced since Invicta launched their Russian Diver series. There was one photo posted on these forums showing an Invicta beside a watch that was claimed to be either a 1959 Invicta or an original Zlatoust watch (I don't recall which) however the details of the watch matched those of the 'Tourist Diver' replicas. Interestingly the above article identifies the source of the Tourist Divers as being St Petersberg, not Zlatoust as has been popularly understood until now. Yea, I found that interesting as well - even the Russians copy the Zlatoust Russian diver.
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Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #6 08-04-2010, 05:21 AM Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 400
X-James Senior Member Senior Geek
I'm sorry but why does it seem that everyone wants to sling the garbage upon Invicta like that. I think Eyal's lawyers should contact that magazine and have them print a retraction for the slanderous things they have said about his company and what is this garbage about some American businessman buying the company in 1991? I thought Invicta has been a Lalo family business since way back in the day with the talk about his Grandmother and the Russians approaching her about the original Russian Diver watch.
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DPM Senior Member Super Geek
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Cool article! Thanks for sharing. If only 100 of the original were made 50 years ago.. I would assume that it would be very hard to find an original and if so very expensive. Good luck, welcome to the forum, and keep us informed in your quest!
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sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by X-James I'm sorry but why does it seem that everyone wants to sling the garbage upon Invicta like that. I think Eyal's lawyers should contact that magazine and have them print a retraction for the slanderous things they have said about his company and what is this garbage about some American businessman buying the company in 1991? I thought Invicta has been a Lalo family business since way back in the day with the talk about his Grandmother and the Russians approaching her about the original Russian Diver watch. thats what we were all told at one point, but it seems that is not so.. so it seems that maybe his family bought the invicta name in 91.. Quote: Invicta Watch Group is a Florida-based watch repair company, trading on the name, but a distinct entity from the company founded in 1837 by Raphael Picard in La Chaux-defonds, Switzerland. The Picard family owned and operated the company until 1991, when the company was purchased by a United States-based investment company. The corporate headquarters were relocated to Hollywood, Florida, where the company also operates its service call center. Eyal Lalo, former head of Invicta marketing in South America, is the CEO of the company and frequently appears on televised ShopNBC
programs,
sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #9 08-04-2010, 05:44 AM X-James Senior Member Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by sunaru thats what we were all told at one point, but it seems that is not so.. so it seems that maybe his family bought the invicta name in 91.. First we were told they were Swiss Made and then that they were diamonds and now this along with other things ... just where does it all end?
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unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek
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The article is abit misleading, but this is nothing new in regard to the model #2625 Russian Diver. This is from a post I responded to acouple of months ago. Quote: Originally Posted by mrblue Im thinking that the most rare may be one of the fifty original RD's made by Eyal's grandmother for the russian navy fleet ..... anyone have that one ?? .. Yeah, right ? ....... could be true though !! .. MB The number was 100... not 50 as you've mentioned in your posts. The Russian navy brass wanted for themselves a Swiss Made version of the standard issue watch used by their fleet hard hat divers. Invicta was granted/won the contract to build 100 Swiss Made "Russian Divers" watches for the navy brass...Eyal Lalo's grandmother was running Invicta at that time. Fast forward to current times...as a gift for bringing Invicta back to health as it were, Eyal's grandmother gave to him one of those original Swiss Made in 1959, 100 that she still had in her possesion. Eyal, with his grandmothers blessing disassymbled and "blue printed" (my term) that watch. With this information he went into the building of what we now know as the Invicta "1959 Original Russian Diver" model #2625 which was released in 2004. Which FYI is actually smaller in size than any of the "1959, 100" thus making those original 100 very collectable indeed. BTW, Eyal owns two of the 100, the one his grandmother gave him and a nonfunctioning piece which was seen on SNBC in 2009. And this from three months ago. My response was to a picture posted of a modern Zaltoust replica.
Larry... That is not an Invicta made piece. It's one of many that are produced and patterned after the than Russian Navy "Military issue" divers watch which was made by the Zaltoust watch company in Russia. The "Military issue" piece is what Invicta, in the late 1950's, was asked to build, in Swiss form and limited number (The 1959 "100"). Approxiamently a decade ago now, Eyal Lalo was gifted one of those "1959 Swiss Made 100" Russian Divers...his grandmother gave it to him. It was this "1959 original" Swiss Made Invicta Russian Diver, that with the blessings of his grandmother, Eyal had disassyembeled, measured and thuroughly examined in order to build (downsized btw) the now famous model #2625 "Invicta 1959 Original Russian Diver", which was released in 2004. A side note here...Eyal owns two of the "1959 100", one in pristine working condition (grandmothers gift) and the other not. Both of which have been shown at different times on SNBC And this... Quote: Originally Posted by jskelton OMG I am so tired of that guy's uninformed rants, it's actually sickening (not Franky, but the source he posted it from)... A couple months before the watch ever even DEBUTED, I had written a review on it. This was before I came to ShopNBC, before I even met Eyal. I was a mod at WUS on the old Invicta forms we had there. The story never "changed" as this guy claims, it's right there in my review from August of 2004. Maybe you've read it... it has been housed on Invictas website for SIX YEARS. It only recently came down when they redesigned their website. All of the reviews that were displayed at invictawatch.com were mine, and the full story of the Invicta Russian Diver was there.... so if there was ever any confusion, that confusion was created by others... not Invicta, not myself, not anyone representing them at ShopNBC either. For whatever reason I remember people twisting Eyal's words around when he would air one of the newer RD designs and reference "our original Russian Diver design" as meaning that Invicta originally designed the Russian Diver.... Eyal NEVER said that. If we aired a Quinotaur, he would talk about how it was based off of the original design of Invicta's RD... not that Invicta originally created the RD. I don't have the archive of my old review anywhere, but perhaps one of our members does. Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of... Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks. http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N
And Jim's response... Quote: Originally Posted by unclefixit Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of... Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks. http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N
Yes, but sadly, that was edited, my original review that was on Invictas site (and by the way on WUS) was longer and more detailed.
Last edited by unclefixit; 08-04-2010 at 06:22 AM. Reason: Added info...using the search function
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flintlock Senior Member Super Geek
I think this watch is Awesome. What do you Geeks think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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Quote: Originally Posted by unclefixit The article is abit misleading, but this is nothing new in regard to the model #2625 Russian Diver. This is from a post I responded to acouple of months ago. Quote: Originally Posted by mrblue Im thinking that the most rare may be one of the fifty original RD's made by Eyal's grandmother for the russian navy fleet ..... anyone have that one ?? .. Yeah, right ? ....... could be true though !! .. MB The number was 100... not 50 as you've mentioned in your posts. The Russian navy brass wanted for themselves a Swiss Made version of the standard issue watch used by their fleet hard hat divers. Invicta was granted/won the contract to build 100 Swiss Made "Russian Divers" watches for the navy brass...Eyal Lalo's grandmother was running Invicta at that time. Fast forward to current times...as a gift for bringing Invicta back to health as it were, Eyal's grandmother gave to him one of those original Swiss Made in 1959, 100 that she still had in her possesion. Eyal, with his grandmothers blessing disassymbled and "blue printed" (my term) that
watch. With this information he went into the building of what we now know as the Invicta "1959 Original Russian Diver" model #2625 which was released in 2004. Which FYI is actually smaller in size than any of the "1959, 100" thus making those original 100 very collectable indeed. BTW, Eyal owns two of the 100, the one his grandmother gave him and a nonfunctioning piece which was seen on SNBC in 2009. And this from three months ago. My response was to a picture posted of a modern Zaltoust replica. Larry... That is not an Invicta made piece. It's one of many that are produced and patterned after the than Russian Navy "Military issue" divers watch which was made by the Zaltoust watch company in Russia. The "Military issue" piece is what Invicta, in the late 1950's, was asked to build, in Swiss form and limited number (The 1959 "100"). Approxiamently a decade ago now, Eyal Lalo was gifted one of those "1959 Swiss Made 100" Russian Divers...his grandmother gave it to him. It was this "1959 original" Swiss Made Invicta Russian Diver, that with the blessings of his grandmother, Eyal had disassyembeled, measured and thuroughly examined in order to build (downsized btw) the now famous model #2625 "Invicta 1959 Original Russian Diver", which was released in 2004. A side note here...Eyal owns two of the "1959 100", one in pristine working condition (grandmothers gift) and the other not. Both of which have been shown at different times on SNBC And this... Quote: Originally Posted by jskelton OMG I am so tired of that guy's uninformed rants, it's actually sickening (not Franky, but the source he posted it from)... A couple months before the watch ever even DEBUTED, I had written a review on it. This was before I came to ShopNBC, before I even met Eyal. I was a mod at WUS on the old Invicta forms we had there. The story never "changed" as this guy claims, it's right there in my review from August of 2004. Maybe you've read it... it has been housed on Invictas website for SIX YEARS. It only recently came down when they redesigned their website. All of the reviews that were displayed at invictawatch.com were mine, and the full story of the Invicta Russian Diver was there.... so if there was ever any confusion, that confusion was created by others... not Invicta, not myself, not anyone representing them at ShopNBC either.
For whatever reason I remember people twisting Eyal's words around when he would air one of the newer RD designs and reference "our original Russian Diver design" as meaning that Invicta originally designed the Russian Diver.... Eyal NEVER said that. If we aired a Quinotaur, he would talk about how it was based off of the original design of Invicta's RD... not that Invicta originally created the RD. I don't have the archive of my old review anywhere, but perhaps one of our members does. Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of... Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks. http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N And Jim's response... Quote: Originally Posted by unclefixit Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of... Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks. http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N
Yes, but sadly, that was edited, my original review that was on Invictas site (and by the way on WUS) was longer and more detailed.
Thank you for all these quotations, but they are a bit hard to follow - perhaps because of the way they are written, or just being snippets of the original posts. I would very much like to see the two original Russian Divers, does anyone have pictures or videos from the shows? I do have some questions about the originals: How did Eyal's grandmother give him two of the original 100 if they were given to the Soviet Navy? Did she only give them 98 of the 100, and keep two? Also, the article I quoted above mainly focuses on the Zlatoust diver, but also states that the entire premise of Invicta's involvement (apart from any contact with Zlatoust) is false: Quote: The tall tale, which was chosen for promoting the so-called “Russian Diver� line was very interesting. They alleged that in 1959 the Soviet Navy General Headquarters chose Invicta as the best among other Swiss watch companies and, thus, the company was commissioned to make a limited edition of 100 dive watches, whether as prize watches for the best Navy divers
or to compare the quality of Swiss watches to that of Soviet ones. Someone posted earlier that a picture of one of the original watches exists, does anyone have a link? Thanks
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #13 08-04-2010, 08:34 AM
gwing Senior Member True WatchGeek
A nice little read about RD's thanks for the info. __________________
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kmt Junior Member New Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by flintlock I think this watch is Awesome. What do you Geeks think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT This is one of the counterfeit watches referred to in the Russian magazine article, and was apparently made in St. Petersburg. The factory name printed on the box is misspelled; it should be "Zlatoustovski", not "Zlatousovsky" (missing the second "t").
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #15 08-04-2010, 08:42 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island New York Posts: 24,776 BigJoe Original Past Ambassador True WatchGeek
Thanks for the read very interesting and informative. __________________ Big Joe like's watches and good friends. Take care and be safe. [ Big Joe ]
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imawatchgeek Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Wow, Invicta must be doing something right, they have so many haters...
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#17 08-04-2010, 10:15 AM Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 307 sanlover99 Senior Member Senior Geek
not a surprise to me
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bigwatchking1 Senior Member True WatchGeek
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: ohio Posts: 5,369 Real Name: Nhard
nice article,,to find a russian diver from 1959 might takes some work,,but i hope you do ,,that would be a grail __________________
enjoy the time you have , because its the only thing you can't get back
bigwatchking1 View Public Profile Send a private message to bigwatchking1 Send email to bigwatchking1 Find all posts by bigwatchking1 Add bigwatchking1 to Your Contacts #19 08-04-2010, 10:48 AM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigwatchking1 nice article,,to find a russian diver from 1959 might takes some work,,but i hope you do ,,that would be a grail Yes, and I am still hopeful, even though the evidence thus far indicates that the watches might not have actually existed. Does anyone have a picture or more information?
Thanks
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #20 08-04-2010, 10:59 AM jakisbck Member Member Geek
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The Bad thing about this is even when folks try to supply others with good information (reputable information) others still say it aint so. No wayyyyyyyyy then later on they found out it was right they try to jump on the band wagon after the fight is over. Buyer beware buyer shop wisely............................................ ..................... Invicta has made some exceptional watches and i for one have bought several bck in the day and even up to now but im selective as to what I buy. Once the smoke clears/hype then I do my evaluation. $100-$200 is my limit
jakisbck View Public Profile Send a private message to jakisbck Find all posts by jakisbck Add jakisbck to Your Contacts #21 08-04-2010, 11:05 AM Hotspur Senior Member Super Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigwatchking1 nice article,,to find a russian diver from 1959 might takes some work,,but i hope you do ,,that would be a grail Easy to accomplish - simply offer $20k for a piece with proper provenance (rock solid history, identification and certification) and just see what comes knockin' (you don't have to actually buy it). __________________ They all wound - the last one kills (inscribed below a 15th century clock)
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Runnin' Ute Senior Member Super Geek
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Even if it Invicta never built those 100 watches for the Russian Navy, so what? . At the very least the Russian Diver as we know it today was inspired by a Russian Diver's watch that was built during that time frame. The likelihood of one of those "Original" 1959 watches as built by Invicta (assuming the story is true) still exists has to be awfully slim. Think about it - 100 pieces and 50+ years. The odds are against such an animal still around have to be astronomical against a so called original still being around. Watches die, and are not always repaired but rather tossed into the round file and this is probably the casein this instance. __________________
Brad "Dost thou love life? Then do not squander time, for that's the stuff life is made of." Benjamin Franklin
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Quote: Originally Posted by Runnin' Ute Even if it Invicta never built those 100 watches for the Russian Navy, so what? <snip> So what? It speaks to honesty and integrity. If the story is not true, then that is a problem. As Eyal is reported to have two originals, a nice detailed photo-essay here would put the matter
to rest, and be of considerable historical value. Additionally, Zlatoust is coming out with a limited run of ~90 pieces of their original 1950's design. It would be really cool if Invicta did the same thing with an exact reissue of their original 1959 design.
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #24 08-04-2010, 12:37 PM Lunerdustbunnies Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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That is a very interesting read. Thanks bring it to our attention. __________________ Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. And love your neighbor as your self. Have a great day fellow Geeks!
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jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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I am continually amazed at the assumptions that fly around concerning the Invicta Russian Diver and its history. I was alerted once again that this topic was popping up all over the place, but I'm surprised to see it here at WGs since this has all been discussed before. Apparently outside of WGs, reading comprehension is an acquired skill, and apparently better skills are required. I'll explain it again. Back in early 2004 as I was moderating the Invicta Forum at another website, and not affiliated with Invicta, I was able to wrangle Eyal in for a pair of forum-exclusive interviews. During this process he and I discussed the recent reviews and photo work I had been doing on the watches I owned. I asked if I could do reviews of upcoming products before their official release, and he agreed. In September of 2004, a few months later, I received a package containing the COSC Lupah, Russian Diver and a couple others I cannot recall at this time. I wrote my review and posted it toward the end of September of 2004 about a month before I was even approached by ShopNBC to become a host. Because of this timing, my approach to presenting this watch never changed from my wording in the published review... so there should be no misunderstanding if you have seen my presentations of this series of watches. As posted on Invicta's website for 5 years and still on the archived WUS website is my original review. All information was clearly conveyed, and I will repeat some of it here so others may benefit... In 1959 Invicta was approached by the Russian Naval Fleet and a request was made for a Swiss Made version of their Russian Diver (...of THEIR Russian Diver... designed in Russia by Russians....) as presentation pieces for their officers. 100 were contracted to be made. Invicta has never claimed, nor have I ever claimed that Invicta created the original design. Zlatoust was and always will be the originator of the design.
Around 2002 Eyal's grandmother gave him one of the originals (we brought it on-air for EVERY RD presentation for about 6 months in that debut year), and he fell in love with the concept. He scaled it down a little in size, changed the text on the dial to reflect "Invicta" (with the backwards "N" which Eyal was informed, possibly in error, that would read Invicta's name), and produced it in Switzerland with the Unitas mechanical movement. I can only surmise that the confusions we keep hearing over and over come from Eyal's presentations of more current versions. Eyal often refers back to his 2004 RD when talking about the newer designs, and trying to relay the history of this watch in just a few seconds (it's not like we have a full hour to recount entire histories for each watch we sell). He says that whatever new model "is based on our original Russian Diver design..." which simply refers back to the 2004, and 1959 Invicta built Russian Divers. He is NOT saying that he, or anyone at Invicta at any time created the original design for the Russian Diver. I know here at WG we have a lot of smart folks, but for those outside of WGs that will be dissecting my post... I made sure to type it r-e-a-l-l-y slowly, and used small words to ease in the digestion of the facts. Now onto the article in question. Here is a direct response for everyone:
"You can ask: but where is a mention about Invicta? Nowhere. There is no place for Invicta in the real history behind Zlatoust dive watches. True. Invicta has no ties with the Zlatoust factory, or the original design of the Russian Diver pre-dating the Swiss made variation in 1959. Invicta has never claimed otherwise. Of course, it is not accidental that in 2003 Invicta watch company began to promote their watch line called â&#x20AC;&#x153;Russian Diverâ&#x20AC;? and made them in the same style as famous Zlatoust 191-ChS diver watches. As for the purposefulness of Invicta watches, they are more decorative then really functional pieces seriously being inferior to Zlatoust 191-ChS ones in this point. Invictas being more for decoration than for function... that's a bit of
opinion really and not a fact.
Invicta is a Swiss watch company and is well-known from the middle of 19th century. In 1991 it was bought by American businessmen, who began to promote a very aggressive marketing strategy for the brand. The tall tale, which was chosen for promoting the so-called â&#x20AC;&#x153;Russian Diverâ&#x20AC;? line was very interesting. There is no tall tale, the history was clearly defined in my review back in 2004, and none of the claims made in this article were actually made by either Invicta, or myself. They alleged that in 1959 the Soviet Navy General Headquarters chose Invicta as the best among other Swiss watch companies and, thus, the company was commissioned to make a limited edition of 100 dive watches, whether as prize watches for the best Navy divers or to compare the quality of Swiss watches to that of Soviet ones. And where did this come from?? Again, this claim was never made by anyone at Invicta or ShopNBC.
As for the design, they say that the design of these watches was discovered among documents belonging to the grandmother of Eyal Lalo, the CEO of Invicta. Who is "they"? No one at Invicta, nor ShopNBC has ever claimed any of this about 'documents' or anything related to the design. I clearly detailed that Eyal's grandmother gave Eyal one of the original watches... and he even brought it on-air for about 6 months straight. This is more fabrication from our friend: The Internet.
According to their statements, the old sample was a thoroughly improved
version and was the only real prototype of all diver watches made in Zlatoust. And that’s why, as they conclude, Invicta has "moral rights" to produce watches of this design. Of course, not a single document or other serious evidence was introduced in order to prove it. All the respected specialists display irony towards their tall tale.
The author asks for documentation for an example of the truth... where is HIS documentation that these claims he speaks of were ever made???? This entire section is completely invalid as this claim was NEVER made.
Even the inscription on the dial of so-called “Russian Divers”, written intentionally (or maybe just through ignorance?) with glaring mistake as "ИМФ СССР" instead of "ВМФ СССР", indirectly show non-participation in creating the real Zlatoust diver watches. This type of a “mistake” is often used by the pirate companies stealing other companies ideas. However, this doesn’t prevent Invicta from selling thousands of watches because their advertising strategy has worked out to influence average buyers who first buy a watch and then develop interest in its authenticity. Nowadays, the Invicta Russian Diver line numbers about thirty different models at the price range between $150 to $2000 and the basic model of this line, a copy of the real Zlatoust diver watch, Model 2625, with the price at $600. Invicta actively promote their watches through Internet sale sites and ShopNBC TV channel. Perfectly planned and methodically carried out, this strategy yields excellent results. Popularity of their so-called “Russian Divers” has greatly increased. This success has attracted Invicta competitors. And first of them all are Chinese “pirates”, absolute evil for all brands. Invicta does not conceal that their “Russian Divers” are being produced in South East Asia with slight usage of some Swiss and American components. And naturally as a second wave, a wide stream of primitive “Russian Divers” fakes appears now here and there."
So hopefully this helps to clear the air about the Invicta Russian Divers. It's a tired subject, but based on the grossly erroneous information being passed around from forum to forum in regards to what THEY say Invicta claimed, and this article... it was worth revisiting I suppose. __________________ Quote: Living well is the best revenge. -George Herbert Quote: Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
flintlock Senior Member Super Geek
OK Then........I really like this watch. What do you geeks think.....http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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#27 08-04-2010, 01:37 PM Comancheseven Senior Member Senior Geek
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Thanks Jim, I know who to believe on this subject. And by the way I own a Invicta R/D and I love it. And it's not a Swiss Made watch, I got it at SAMS Club for about $75.00 Again Thanks Jim Dave
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Jim, thanks for the REAL STORY! One think I don't understand, however, is why the Russian military would have chosen an American owned "Swiss company" to make the prestige versions of their standard issue navy watches. Certainly, there were more prestigeous Swiss companies then, as there are now, who could have made these watches. Other than the contract being awarded on the basis of Invicta giving the lowest bid for these 100 watches, I wonder why they picked Invicta.
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jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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What I don't get is the fact that people are quoting things that have never been said, claiming that "the story has changed" when the only original story was what I wrote in 2004 and not one part of that has EVER changed in any statements by Invicta or myself. Poeple just love to make stuff up, and if they say it enough... people believe it as fact. Yet my review pre-dates their BS by YEARS, and clearly refutes any of their embellishments. __________________ Quote: Living well is the best revenge. -George Herbert Quote: Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
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Add jskelton to Your Contacts #30 08-04-2010, 01:56 PM
Bondson Senior Member Senior Geek
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Wow. Invicta's rock!!!
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jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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I was asked to comment on the recent interview with the folks at Zlatoust. It appears somoene told Zlatoust that Invicta had made the claim that they had in some fashion partnered with Zlatoust in creating the Russian Divers. NO such claim was ever made... where is the proof of this claim? Where is it documented?
Of course Zlatoust says there never has been any affiliation between their esteemed organization and Invicta. Of course not... no one speaking with any authority on the subject ever claimed that there was... I am baffled as to where this claim even came from. Ya gotta love the internet. __________________ Quote: Living well is the best revenge. -George Herbert Quote: Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
jskelton View Public Profile Send a private message to jskelton Visit jskelton's homepage! Find all posts by jskelton Add jskelton to Your Contacts #32 08-04-2010, 02:15 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by jskelton In 1959 Invicta was approached by the Russian Naval Fleet and a request was made for a
Swiss Made version of their Russian Diver (...of THEIR Russian Diver... designed in Russia by Russians....) as presentation pieces for their officers. 100 were contracted to be made. Invicta has never claimed, nor have I ever claimed that Invicta created the original design. Zlatoust was and always will be the originator of the design. Around 2002 Eyal's grandmother gave him one of the originals (we brought it on-air for EVERY RD presentation for about 6 months in that debut year), and he fell in love with the concept. He scaled it down a little in size, changed the text on the dial to reflect "Invicta" (with the backwards "N" which Eyal was informed, possibly in error, that would read Invicta's name), and produced it in Switzerland with the Unitas mechanical movement. <snip> Thanks for this fantastic response, Jim. I admit that I am one of those that have been confused by this, thanks for the clarification. I am still confused about a few things: Even if there was no participation with Zlatoust (disregarding Invicta's need for specifications from the factory to produce a Swiss version), wouldn't Zlatoust at least be aware of the contract with Invicta? I would think the article would at least acknowledge that, instead of a blanket denial of Invicta being "nowhere". Were only 100 made? If so, how does Eyal have one (or two, according to one post in this thread)? Did the Russians return one (or more)? Were extras made (and are they available!)? Finally, as Eyal does have at least one, could we please have a detailed photo-essay of the original posted here, for historical posterity? That would be a fantastic addition to the site, and an exclusive piece of documentation for WG's to have. Thanks
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#33 08-04-2010, 02:32 PM
richhoff Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Thanks Jim for jumping on these mis-statements once again and offering clarity. __________________ Corvettes & Watches
Two Expensive Hobbies.
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QUANTICO SPEEDLOADERS Member Member Geek
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Diamond Jim!!! Don't get hooked by these stories. I haven't been on this web site for a long time but the only story about the Russian Diver that I ever heard was the one just you explained (in detail). That's why I was confused when I read this thread. You are a funny and honest guy don't let these things bug you. By the way I have two RDs and they are BAD A*S!!! __________________
"Now I ask you...What good is a dead Ninja?": Jim Skelton 06/27/2010 @ 2105 hours, Shop NBC
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jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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LOL, already the 'dark corners of the internet' are being torn inside out with more rants and multiple exclamation points to drive their fanatical points home . Fact: The only claims made were in my 2004 review which pre-dates any of the false claims we're seeing now. The facts presented in my review are the only facts used in the presentations. Period. All these other supposed 'claims' were made up by others, or misunderstood by others, and repeated so often it seems to feel like the truth. Fact: There's not one video or document to back up any of the statements made by others about the supposed "claims". Fact: MY document has been accessible to the public since 2004. They can rant all they want, but facts trump rants, sorry but that's simply the way it is. Add this to the bucket of other claims made about me, ShopNBC, Invicta, Michael, etc... not a single DOCUMENT, just a lot of "I heard this" or "I talked to/reviewed a person who had direct knowledge of..." but no actual proof, just hearsay. Circumstantial at best.
Quote: Originally Posted by kmt Thanks for this fantastic response, Jim. I admit that I am one of those that have been confused by this, thanks for the clarification. No worries. With so many stories being spread around, it's no wonder so many are truly confused. I am still confused about a few things: Were only 100 made? Yes, this is what Eyal told me back before I wrote the review in 2004. If so, how does Eyal have one (or two, according to one post in this thread)? Eyal has two now. One is kept at Invicta in Florida, one is kept in his other home here in MN. Did the Russians return one (or more)?
I have no idea, I've never asked. Were extras made (and are they available!)? If there are, I am unaware. Finally, as Eyal does have at least one, could we please have a detailed photo-essay of the original posted here, for historical posterity? That would be a fantastic addition to the site, and an exclusive piece of documentation for WG's to have. I have talked to Eyal about this for a while, and we never remember when he is here. I'll try next time to run over and grab it to shoot. I wish someone, anyone had a single video from anytime between Oct 2004 and about June of 2005 because we aired the orioginal so many times I can't even remember. Thanks __________________ Quote: Living well is the best revenge. -George Herbert Quote: Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
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kb64 Senior Member Senior Geek
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Jim, Thanks for once again clearing the air on some of the mis-information that gets posted on these forums. I certainly don't begrudge a fellow geeks right to want to verify info that may surface regarding watch brands, but I'm glad we have someone who can "set the record straight". Thanks for taking the time and by the way the watch I'm wearing while typing this post is my RD Limited Racing Edition. __________________
COLLECTING WATCHES AND RETIRED! kb64 View Public Profile Send a private message to kb64 Send email to kb64 Find all posts by kb64 Add kb64 to Your Contacts #37 08-04-2010, 02:50 PM
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MATTNATTI Senior Member Super Geek
its amazing what people can read and hear into things jim. __________________
GO DEEPER!
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jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
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Even more amazing to see that they insist on continuing it even years and years later. Oh well, some have lives, some obsess about other's lives I suppose. __________________ Quote: Living well is the best revenge. -George Herbert
Quote: Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
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Quote: Originally Posted by jskelton I have talked to Eyal about this for a while, and we never remember when he is here. I'll try next time to run over and grab it to shoot. I wish someone, anyone had a single video from anytime between Oct 2004 and about June of 2005 because we aired the orioginal so many times I can't even remember. Thanks again for the further clarification, Jim. Eyal does have two. You posted earlier that one was given to him by his grandmother, but do you know where the other one came from? I know this is a long shot, but would he be willing to sell one? Would it be possible to forward this thread to Eyal, so that the request for the photo-essay is not
forgotten? I know each of these questions could be seen as impertinent, and I apologize if so. I would really love to obtain one of these, but more importantly, I think this is a fantastic opportunity to add some historical documentation on the Russian Diver, and most importantly, put the provenance issue to bed once and for all.
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #40 08-04-2010, 03:07 PM daveCFPrez Senior Member Senior Geek
ANYTHING is for sale... For the right price = ) Quote: Originally Posted by kmt I know this is a long shot, but would he be willing to sell one? __________________ dave CFPrez
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#41 08-04-2010, 03:17 PM
garyh Senior Member Veteran Geek
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OP thanks for the posting as i found it informative and diodn't start collecting Invicta's or any watch for that matter until MArch 2009. So i was never privy to the history or debate of the russian diver. I personally love the design and own around 16 variations of the russian diver line. i will continue to buy these models as i love the size and look and appreciate the quaility and price point of these models. Jim thank you for taking the time (again) to clean up the history of the piece andthe article and bring additional facts to light. I agree for us new rd collectors it was worth your time and effort. IMHO. __________________
HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST WATCHES WINS!
garyh View Public Profile Send a private message to garyh Send email to garyh Find all posts by garyh Add garyh to Your Contacts #42 08-04-2010, 03:46 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by jskelton I wish someone, anyone had a single video from anytime between Oct 2004 and about June of 2005 because we aired the orioginal so many times I can't even remember. Is this it?
I found it in this thread: Original Russian Diver PROOF?
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #43 08-04-2010, 04:38 PM reserveman Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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It funny how when companies are doing better than other a bunch of untruths come out. All I know is I have 9 of them from the 7750 to the unitas to square ones to the Flame Limited Edition and love them all. Thats what I care about, How I like them. Way to go Jim and Eyal. Can you make an auto 3 hand with either a sand stone or one of those other mineral one like the Invicta 11's but with the smaller crown gard and either interchangable or the SS/poly bracelet. I'd be an owner
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Add reserveman to Your Contacts #44 08-04-2010, 07:26 PM Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by BabyDoc Jim, thanks for the REAL STORY! One think I don't understand, however, is why the Russian military would have chosen an American owned "Swiss company" to make the prestige versions of their standard issue navy watches. Certainly, there were more prestigeous Swiss companies then, as there are now, who could have made these watches. Other than the contract being awarded on the basis of Invicta giving the lowest bid for these 100 watches, I wonder why they picked Invicta. In 1959 Invicta was a Swiss owned company, and I understand that they had some prior experience with production of watches that have been issued to armed forces. Additionally it has often been claimed that Soviet elites favoured Swiss watches over the local product for reasons of prestige, however this seems to have not been anywhere near as widespread as has been popularly assumed in the West. Certainly the issuing of a Swiss watch (as opposed to private purchase) would be unique in the USSR at this time. And it is the uniqueness of the situation that has generated the skepticism. There is only so far that you can verify or disprove the history purely on the basis of probabilities. It ultimately comes down to verifiable documentation. Jim referred to a review on another site. If it is the site I am thinking of then the review may have been lost in a fatal server crash since then. If anybody has a copy to re-post here, that would clear up the first question about the original Invicta claims regarding the Russian Diver. The next thing would be to get some good photos of the 1959 watch here on this forum. Again, surely there is somebody with at least a screen capture just for starters. The only photo that I have seen here was one of those watches now identified as originating from St Petersberg. I do not know the context in which it was presented on the show. Far better if Jim can make arrangements with Mr Lalo, so that this story could be put to bed for good. I don't believe that the heat generated by this matter can be brushed off as 'Invicta hating'. The crucial difference between the Invicta Russian Diver and all the other branded 191-ChS homages out there (Volodaz, Volna, Black Shark, Gruen Soviet, etc, etc) is that Invicta is the only legitimate brand making claims of an historical connection. Popular circulation of the idea
that Invicta designed the original Russian Diver in 1959 (including many posts here) has met with a backlash from those who recognize the improbability of that. Jim has made clear where Invicta really stand on the issue, but once people get fired up about something, well you can see how that goes. Thus the desire by many Invicta admirers to see the 1959 watch here and have it explained for what it really was.
Chascomm View Public Profile Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #45 08-04-2010, 08:15 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm The only photo that I have seen here was one of those watches now identified as originating from St Petersberg. I do not know the context in which it was presented on the show. Far better if Jim can make arrangements with Mr Lalo, so that this story could be put to bed for good. Thank you for following up on your initial post. To make this point clear, it is your opinion that the image of the Russian Diver as portrayed on ShopNBC, is one of the recent tourist pieces made in St. Petersburg, as per the Russian article you linked to in your OP, correct?
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#46 08-04-2010, 08:41 PM NCEngineer Senior Member Senior Geek
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I used to own the original Invicta Russian diver years ago. To be honest, I found it to be an improvement on the original Russian design. Unfortunately, there was an issue with the movement that surfaced some time after I purchased the watch and I sold it to someone whom was willing to get it repaired. But, really, it was an awesome looking watch and, occasionally, I still hunt for it on eBay and the like in the hopes that I can own it again. As far as Invicta's claims on the origins of the watch, I don't put much stock in them. When I owned the watch, I searched the internet, as well as books on Russian watches, high and low, in order to find an independent, or non-Invicta corroboration of the items presented as facts. I have yet to see any. That's the only reason I maintain doubt on the story. If it is untrue, then we can only speculate where it all began. It is absolutely possible that the discrepancy was inserted decades ago such that anyone presenting the claim today has a fairly valid reason to believe it to be true. Yet, this does not make it true. On this specific subject, I would like to see independent evidence, if any existed. I'm a man of little faith with regards of the motives and reasons of people I don't really know - even charming and well presented public figures. There are many well-respected Russian watch experts out there. If not one of them comes out and backs this story with actual documented evidence (not just their opinion), my opinion will remain as is on this watch. And, I don't buy the conspiracy theories that all these experts must all have some ulterior motives. Until then, I still think the watch is a great design improvement (the original Invicta version) and the lume on it is absolutely out of this world. Whoever owns one is a lucky collector, regardless of any controversy surrounding this watch.
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Add NCEngineer to Your Contacts #47 08-04-2010, 08:46 PM Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 307 sanlover99 Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by kmt Is this it?
I found it in this thread: Original Russian Diver PROOF? that watch doesnt look like it's from 1959...
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Quote: Originally Posted by kmt Thank you for following up on your initial post. To make this point clear, it is your opinion that the image of the Russian Diver as portrayed on ShopNBC, is one of the recent tourist pieces made in St. Petersburg, as per the Russian article you linked to in your OP, correct? Only in the photo that I saw. There may be other watches in other photos that I did not see. Here is the thread: http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=37306 You will notice that I incorrectly identified the origin of the watch as Zlatoust, although we now know those recent Russian-sourced homage pieces were made in St Petersberg. And here is the photo in question: Perhaps somebody else can offer an explanation of the context of the photo.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm Only in the photo that I saw. There may be other watches in other photos that I did not see.
Here is the thread: http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=37306 You will notice that I incorrectly identified the origin of the watch as Zlatoust, although we now know those recent Russian-sourced homage pieces were made in St Petersberg. And here is the photo in question: Perhaps somebody else can offer an explanation of the context of the photo. Your photo isn't displaying for me, only the photobucket "this photo has been removed" graphic. What are your thoughts on this photo?:
Thanks
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unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by kmt Your photo isn't displaying for me, only the photobucket "this photo has been removed" graphic. What are your thoughts on this photo?:
Thanks KMT, the watch pictured on the right in this screen capture is of the second one, (Invicta made, 1959 / 100) that Eyal Lalo owns. It's the one my posts were reffering to as being aired on SNBC in 2009. Eyal Lalo obtained this one through his own searching...FYI as Eyal stated on air, it is a non functioning watch.
louisvillelibertyinvicta Senior Member Senior Geek
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I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta. If some of the other watch makers want to enter the market and make watches in the $200 to $1200 price range that have designs that people want I am sure those of us in that particular market will buy from them. But I feel no need to try to damage a company or individuals reputation if they decide not too. I am sorry that my Bolt draws more attention than many watches that cost 10 to 20 times as much or my $130 Russian Diver which seems to always draw interest just because people love the design and are amazed by the size, not realy sorry!!!! If the haters want to damage Invictas sales then I would suggest to stop the bashing because it is doing nothing but shining the light on Invicta and when people see them up close they become a fan and ignore the negatives and purchase their first Invicta.
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#52 08-04-2010, 09:49 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by unclefixit KMT, the watch pictured on the right in this screen capture is of the second one, (Invicta made, 1959 / 100) that Eyal Lalo owns. It's the one my posts were reffering to as being aired on SNBC in 2009. Eyal Lalo obtained this one through his own searching...FYI as Eyal stated on air, it is a non functioning watch. Thank you Jay, for verifying that this is indeed purported to being one of the original 100 1959 Invicta Russian divers presented to the Soviet Navy - this is indeed very illuminating information. Thanks
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #53 08-04-2010, 10:13 PM Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote:
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia Posts: 164
Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta. The problem is in this particular instance, the 'Purists' are those who have an interest in Russian watches, rather than collectors of high-end famous name watches. Crying 'conspiracy!' makes no sense. As you said, Invicta can stand on its own merits. Let's face it, an authentic 191-ChS reproduction is never, ever going to be as wearable as the Invicta RD. What people are interested in here, in this particular thread, is clarity about the history behind the Russian Diver series. Progress is being made in that regard, I think. For the record, I am not a 'hater'. I'm currently wearing a new Indian watch worth about $30. I don't buy brands for the prestige. I like Russian watches. I don't own a Russian Diver, either Russian or Invicta, but this story interests me from an histroical perspective.
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louisvillelibertyinvicta Senior Member Senior Geek
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Understood I understand your interest and in no way was I lumping everyone interested in this topic part of the group I referred to as "Purist". I too have a interest in history and I think my frustration of constantly being "taken to the wood shed" by people wanting to enlighten me on why I should not buy Invicta has blinded me from the history aspect.
I started collecting because I bought an Invicta, actualy a Russian Diver (model 4342) and fell in love with the different watches and with the value proposition Invicta offers. I am now looking and purchasing other brands and it has become a passion that I cannot see ever growing old. I need to come up with another word and not use "Purist" anymore to describe the haters. Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm The problem is in this particular instance, the 'Purists' are those who have an interest in Russian watches, rather than collectors of high-end famous name watches. Crying 'conspiracy!' makes no sense. As you said, Invicta can stand on its own merits. Let's face it, an authentic 191-ChS reproduction is never, ever going to be as wearable as the Invicta RD. What people are interested in here, in this particular thread, is clarity about the history behind the Russian Diver series. Progress is being made in that regard, I think. For the record, I am not a 'hater'. I'm currently wearing a new Indian watch worth about $30. I don't buy brands for the prestige. I like Russian watches. I don't own a Russian Diver, either Russian or Invicta, but this story interests me from an histroical perspective.
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jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 15,841 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton
The picture on the screen cap is of the second one Eyal has shown. We have never discussed between us where he got that one.
Is it identical to the original we used to show on-air in 04? Not sure, never saw them side by side to compare. All I do know is that the one shown in 04 was one of the original 1959 Invicta produced, Swiss versions of the RD design that Eyal got from his grandmother. __________________ Quote: Living well is the best revenge. -George Herbert Quote: Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
jskelton View Public Profile Send a private message to jskelton Visit jskelton's homepage! Find all posts by jskelton Add jskelton to Your Contacts #56 08-05-2010, 01:52 AM NCEngineer Senior Member Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time when they
wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta. What you describe above is, in my personal opinion, an unfounded and over-dramatized generalization of the issue at hand. I'm not convinced that there is some kind of conspiracy by "boardroom" executives because their high-end brand watch now looks cheap when compared to an Invicta. "Purists", in this case and context, should refer to those that - for reasons germane to their passion for a particular watch style, brand or history - scrutinize every detail about whatever enters their realm of expertise with regards to said watch. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a "purist" taking a particular claim to task, even if that claim leans against the watch brand of your choice. If the claim is verifiable, then truth will stand on its own. If it is not, at best, we can assume that the claim is possible, but unlikely (or, likely) - based on the veracity of whatever anecdotal evidence is available - and leave it at that. There is no conspiracy; it is just true watch enthusiasts being cognizant that the world of watches is replete with legend, lore, history and marketing. While all aspects of the four is important, it is equally important to separate each of them accordingly.
NCEngineer View Public Profile Send a private message to NCEngineer Find all posts by NCEngineer Add NCEngineer to Your Contacts #57 08-05-2010, 04:30 AM Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia Posts: 164
Quote: Originally Posted by kmt Your photo isn't displaying for me, only the photobucket "this photo has been removed" graphic. What are your thoughts on this photo?:
Thanks Sorry about the dud link. In your photo, the black dial on the right has inscriptions on the dial consistent with the modern Russian reproductions. The roundness of the bezel top matches that too, however that might just be the light. If this is in fact one of the 1959 Invictas then by some strange chance, the St Petersberg crew must have picked up on the Invicta design just a few years before Invicta launched their new Russian Diver series.
Chascomm View Public Profile Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #58 08-05-2010, 08:20 AM kmt Junior Member New Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm
Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 18
Sorry about the dud link. In your photo, the black dial on the right has inscriptions on the dial consistent with the modern Russian reproductions. The roundness of the bezel top matches that too, however that might just be the light. If this is in fact one of the 1959 Invictas then by some strange chance, the St Petersberg crew must have picked up on the Invicta design just a few years before Invicta launched their new Russian Diver series. Would it be fair to conclude that this is a recent St. Petersburg tourist watch? Thanks
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #59 08-05-2010, 08:38 AM curiousgeorge Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10 years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for Invicta knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones vault and took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather worked at Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has such easy and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the Loch Ness monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches. Reports are he actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for authentic testing. Eyal knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has discovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our disposable incomes disappear without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the internet isn't it!
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JIMZ Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Quote: Originally Posted by flintlock I think this watch is Awesome. What do you Geeks think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT Anthony, It looks very interesting, but Helsinki Finland is far away if something is amiss, just thinking out loud here. Again, any timepiece that sings to you is worth looking at though. __________________
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flintlock Senior Member Super Geek
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Thanks Jim. Ya I know, But I bought it anyway,LOL. I went though Paypal so if something is wrong at lest I'll get my money back. I also know that it is NOT an original to the 1950's time frame. I DID find a Guy with an original in PA. that might sell me his original RD. I'll post pic's on "look what i got" when I get it.
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All this conflick made me just buy the mechanical they had that there was 8 of. model 2625. Was suppose to be on 1st hr of collector shows today.
reserveman View Public Profile Send a private message to reserveman Send email to reserveman Find all posts by reserveman Add reserveman to Your Contacts #63 08-05-2010, 01:24 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by flintlock I DID find a Guy with an original in PA. that might sell me his original RD. I'll post pic's on "look what i got" when I get it. You found an original 1959 Invicta Russian Diver in PA? One of the original 100? That is exciting news! I am eagerly looking forward to the photo's and hopefully you can get the history and specifications (caliber, serial number, dimensions, weight, etc.) of the piece.
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richhoff Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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Quote: Originally Posted by curiousgeorge A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10 years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for Invicta knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones vault and took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather worked at Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has such easy and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the Loch Ness monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches. Reports are he actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for authentic testing. Eyal knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has discovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our disposable incomes disappear without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the internet isn't it! Now that is funny George........ __________________ Corvettes & Watches
Two Expensive Hobbies.
richhoff View Public Profile Send a private message to richhoff Find all posts by richhoff Add richhoff to Your Contacts #65 08-05-2010, 03:00 PM BabyDoc Senior Member Super Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by curiousgeorge A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10 years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for Invicta knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones vault and took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather worked at Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has such easy and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the Loch Ness monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches. Reports are he actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for authentic testing. Eyal knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has discovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our disposable incomes disappear without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the internet isn't it! George, next to some of the stories here about the origins of the Invicta Russian Diver, your story is the most creative and funiest I have seen here in a long time!
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skiking22 Member Member Geek
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BRAVO George!!!! I love a good smart-azz remark. Very well said!!!! Scott __________________
When Hell freezes over I'll ski there too!!!!
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louisvillelibertyinvicta Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 167 Real Name: Rob Koons
You see I never said anything about high end watches being cheap nor did I say Invictas quality was superior to any particular watch. What I said was they lost the glory meaning that some cannot stand anything positive being said about Invicta and when something positive is said a group of these people always feel the need to point out that Invicta is no Rolex or Omega and go on to point out all the differences which no one will argure. I agree there is not a conspiracy but the fact is anyone who likes Invicta and says it will usualy agree they get negative comments more often than not from this group of people not for comparing or putting another brand down but for just stating a postive comment about Invicta. Quote: Originally Posted by NCEngineer What you describe above is, in my personal opinion, an unfounded and over-dramatized generalization of the issue at hand. I'm not convinced that there is some kind of conspiracy by "boardroom" executives because their high-end brand watch now looks cheap when compared to an Invicta. "Purists", in this case and context, should refer to those that - for reasons germane to their passion for a particular watch style, brand or history - scrutinize every detail about whatever enters their realm of expertise with regards to said watch. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a "purist" taking a particular claim to task, even if that claim leans against the watch brand of your choice. If the claim is verifiable, then truth will stand on its own. If it is not, at best, we can assume that the claim is possible, but unlikely (or, likely) - based on the veracity of whatever anecdotal evidence is available - and leave it at that. There is no conspiracy; it is just true watch enthusiasts being cognizant that the world of watches is replete with legend, lore, history and marketing. While all aspects of the four is important, it is equally important to separate each of them accordingly.
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bwag829 Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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This was a very interesting thread and well worth the time reading. Thanks all.
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TM Maker Senior Member Super Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by curiousgeorge A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10 years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for Invicta knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones vault and took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather worked at Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has such easy and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the Loch Ness monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches. Reports are he actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for authentic testing. Eyal knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has discovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our disposable incomes disappear without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the internet isn't it! I had a feeling That Roswell aliens were involved in this somehow. You just can't trust those little gray buggers!
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flintlock Senior Member Super Geek
Well that broke it up George. LOL. Excellent.........
Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hamilton NJ Posts: 1,040 Real Name: Anthony
flintlock View Public Profile Send a private message to flintlock Send email to flintlock Find all posts by flintlock Add flintlock to Your Contacts #71 08-06-2010, 12:16 PM kmt Junior Member New Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm Sorry about the dud link. In your photo, the black dial on the right has inscriptions on the dial consistent with the modern Russian reproductions. The roundness of the bezel top matches that too, however that might just be the light. If this is in fact one of the 1959 Invictas then by some strange chance, the St Petersberg crew must have picked up on the Invicta design just a few years before Invicta launched their new Russian Diver series. I found this image by Jim showing what appears to be the exact same style of watch as in the ShopNBC presentation:
Other than the missing hands in the image cap, they look identical.
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#72 08-06-2010, 06:22 PM
unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by kmt I found this image by Jim showing what appears to be the exact same style of watch as in the ShopNBC presentation:
Other than the missing hands in the image cap, they look identical. The one on the left is the #2625 "Invicta 1959 Original Russian Diver" homage (released 2004) we know today. The one on the right looks alot like this 1970's-date. http://www.rugift.com/watches/russia...s-watch-18.htm Here's some more material to read... http://www.russianwatchguide.com/zla...olaz-diver.htm
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New Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by unclefixit The one on the left is the #2625 "Invicta 1959 Original Russian Diver" homage (released 2004) we know today. The one on the right looks alot like this 1970's-date. http://www.rugift.com/watches/russia...s-watch-18.htm Here's some more material to read... http://www.russianwatchguide.com/zla...olaz-diver.htm Thank you for the links. In your opinion, what are the differences between the RD in the screen cap (1959 Invicta RD), and the new image? Both appear to show the exact same watch. Thanks
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #74 08-06-2010, 07:59 PM rhickey Banned Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time when they
wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta. If some of the other watch makers want to enter the market and make watches in the $200 to $1200 price range that have designs that people want I am sure those of us in that particular market will buy from them. But I feel no need to try to damage a company or individuals reputation if they decide not too. I am sorry that my Bolt draws more attention than many watches that cost 10 to 20 times as much or my $130 Russian Diver which seems to always draw interest just because people love the design and are amazed by the size, not realy sorry!!!! If the haters want to damage Invictas sales then I would suggest to stop the bashing because it is doing nothing but shining the light on Invicta and when people see them up close they become a fan and ignore the negatives and purchase their first Invicta. I've yet to see an Invicta in the boardroom. To be honest I just see the usual suspects: Rolex, Omega, Tag etc.
rhickey View Public Profile Find all posts by rhickey Add rhickey to Your Contacts #75 08-06-2010, 08:06 PM Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 307 sanlover99 Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have been
collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta. If some of the other watch makers want to enter the market and make watches in the $200 to $1200 price range that have designs that people want I am sure those of us in that particular market will buy from them. But I feel no need to try to damage a company or individuals reputation if they decide not too. I am sorry that my Bolt draws more attention than many watches that cost 10 to 20 times as much or my $130 Russian Diver which seems to always draw interest just because people love the design and are amazed by the size, not realy sorry!!!! If the haters want to damage Invictas sales then I would suggest to stop the bashing because it is doing nothing but shining the light on Invicta and when people see them up close they become a fan and ignore the negatives and purchase their first Invicta. believe it or not, the majority of watch collectors arent that vain. my favorite watch in my collection is my panerai, because it receives the least attention. it's like my personal secret. i feel no desire to show off and say "LOOK AT ME!"
rhickey Banned Senior Geek
Panerai is all about "look at me" !
rhickey View Public Profile Find all posts by rhickey Add rhickey to Your Contacts #77 08-06-2010, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 307 sanlover99 Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by rhickey Panerai is all about "look at me" ! considering 99% of the population have never heard of panerai and considering that their design although on the larger side is understated and bland.
so how is panerai "look at me" again?
sanlover99 View Public Profile Send a private message to sanlover99 Find all posts by sanlover99 Add sanlover99 to Your Contacts #78 08-06-2010, 10:19 PM Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote:
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia Posts: 164
Originally Posted by kmt I found this image by Jim showing what appears to be the exact same style of watch as in the ShopNBC presentation:
Other than the missing hands in the image cap, they look identical. The main practical difference is that the Invicta is a bit smaller and therefore a bit more wearable (without a diving suit). Other differences are in the case construction. The Russian one is a top-loader with solid back. Also the 'canteen' crown protector is a different design in some details. The watch on the right looks to me like one of the modern reproductions due to the markings on the dial and the colour of the luminous material applied to the dial and hands. It may be (can't be sure from the photo) that the bezel has the optional spacer that can be used to replace the crystal-protecting grille usually supplied with such watches. The screws on the dial are not visible unfortunately so they can't be used as an indication of it being a new or an old. The bezel is the more rounded shape usually associated with the modern reproductions, however that is complicated by there having been at least two distinct runs of 191-ChS, with small differences around the bezel and the backs of the lugs. One problem here is that the only well-documented watches are the original 191-ChS, the modern Russian reproduction and the modern Invicta. If it just happens that all the detail differences between the original and the Russian reproduction are exactly the same as the differences between the original and the 1959 Invicta, then we're none the wiser by looking at the outside of the watch. Do we have a back view of the claimed 1959 watch?
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louisvillelibertyinvicta Senior Member Senior Geek
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Nor do I seek the "LOOK AT ME" but when someone, who does not normaly even look at watches stops me and wants to see one of my Invicta watches and when they find out that they can get the look they want for the price they want it is a feel of satisfcation like no other. I am a succesfull business owner and when a company can produce a product that offers a value proposition that exites customers I also get exited. I understand that their may be people who do not fit in some peoples watch collectors box or profile and are not as refined as some would like but Invicta has brought in many people and overall has done a great job. Two of the most satisfying things in the past year has been giving my daughter leaving for the Navy my S1 Racer and giving a clients son who was leaving for Iraq a Russian Diver he loved the first time he saw it and the appreciation was amazing.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Chascomm The main practical difference is that the Invicta is a bit smaller and therefore a bit more
wearable (without a diving suit). Other differences are in the case construction. The Russian one is a top-loader with solid back. Also the 'canteen' crown protector is a different design in some details. The watch on the right looks to me like one of the modern reproductions due to the markings on the dial and the colour of the luminous material applied to the dial and hands. It may be (can't be sure from the photo) that the bezel has the optional spacer that can be used to replace the crystal-protecting grille usually supplied with such watches. The screws on the dial are not visible unfortunately so they can't be used as an indication of it being a new or an old. The bezel is the more rounded shape usually associated with the modern reproductions, however that is complicated by there having been at least two distinct runs of 191-ChS, with small differences around the bezel and the backs of the lugs. One problem here is that the only well-documented watches are the original 191-ChS, the modern Russian reproduction and the modern Invicta. If it just happens that all the detail differences between the original and the Russian reproduction are exactly the same as the differences between the original and the 1959 Invicta, then we're none the wiser by looking at the outside of the watch. Do we have a back view of the claimed 1959 watch? Thank you for the response. Actually, I was asking you to compare this new watch picture with the screen cap from ShopNBC of the purported 1959 Invicta, not compare the two watches in the photo. Here are both for comparison:
Now, in your opinion, does the watch on the right of the top picture look like the watch on the right in the bottom picture? Are they essentially the same style (case, rounded bezel, chrome plating/SS, dial, lume color, etc.) from what detail you can make out in the photos? Thanks
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Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by kmt Thank you for the response. Actually, I was asking you to compare this new watch picture with the screen cap from ShopNBC of the purported 1959 Invicta, not compare the two watches in the photo. Here are both for comparison:
Now, in your opinion, does the watch on the right of the top picture look like the watch on the right in the bottom picture? Are they essentially the same style (case, rounded bezel, chrome plating/SS, dial, lume color, etc.) from what detail you can make out in the photos? Thanks Just my opinion, but I can't make out a difference between the two photos. So does anybody have a photo of the caseback of the 1959?
Chascomm View Public Profile Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #82 08-07-2010, 05:42 AM RunninOnEmpty Senior Member Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by rhickey Panerai is all about "look at me" ! Sounds to me like someone here doesn't own a Panerai.
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louisvillelibertyinvicta Senior Member Senior Geek
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Clarification Just to clarify what my original point was, which I think I may of worded incorrectly or at least it may of been misunderstood. I have no problem with "Purist" and have no problem with anyone who purchases high end watches and is not exited about anything Invicta. I not only understand but respect anyone who appreciates craftsmanship and quality and keeps the very highest standards. My issue has been the ones, and they probably are the minority but very vocal, who everytime anything positive is stated about Invicta goes on the attack and has to put down Invicta. I have read your posts and in no way are you or many of the what I call "Purists" like that. Just wanted to clarify what I realy think and to ensure I was not being like the ones I was complaining about. Thankfully on this site I have seen very very little of that compared to many other forums. Most of what I have seen on this forum is true honest debate on some very real issues that Invicta has experienced.
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Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Here - now Posts: 1,619 Real Name: William (Bill)
Quote: Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta Just to clarify what my original point was, which I think I may of worded incorrectly or at least it may of been misunderstood. I have no problem with "Purist" and have no problem with anyone who purchases high end watches and is not exited about anything Invicta. I not only understand but respect anyone who appreciates craftsmanship and quality and keeps the very highest standards. My issue has been the ones, and they probably are the minority but very vocal, who everytime anything positive is stated about Invicta goes on the attack and has to put down Invicta. I have read your posts and in no way are you or many of the what I call "Purists" like that. Just wanted to clarify what I realy think and to ensure I was not being like the ones I was complaining about. Thankfully on this site I have seen very very little of that compared to many other forums. Most of what I have seen on this forum is true honest debate on some very real issues that Invicta has experienced. Suggest future use of "snobs" rather than "purists". Believe this suits your intention more accurately. __________________ They all wound - the last one kills (inscribed below a 15th century clock)
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#85 08-07-2010, 07:17 PM
JoeH Senior Member Master WatchGeek
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I love my russian divers...... __________________ Joe
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louisvillelibertyinvicta Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 167 Real Name: Rob Koons
Agreed. You are correct and I should of not used the word "Purist". It did not make the point it was intended and made it appear I had issues with Purist and I do not at all. Thank You Thanks
Quote: Originally Posted by Hotspur Suggest future use of "snobs" rather than "purists". Believe this suits your intention more accurately.
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SeaVulture Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,870 Real Name: William
I can't believe I read this thread in its entirety. I MUST be stupid to have endured all that just to make this point. A watch is a watch. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, then don't. Since the value of an object is only worth what a person is willing to spend, AT THAT MOMENT, get while the gettin's good. But, PLEASE, don't hammer the crap out of the goodness that we find in what others like to buy. I for one, don't really care if it's JUST a story. In fact, I lean in the direction that it is true, as I can see this from the Russian design origins, the fact that Zlatoust moved their factory from St.
Petersburg during the NAZI invasion of Russia, and the manufacturer's who've made the designs since that time. The whole Witch Hunt theme, here is a bit juvenile, and befitting of folks who troll on other forums. __________________
Welcome to The Invicta Reserve SubAqua Venom Valgrange A07.211 Automatic WatchGeek Registry! http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=90044
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Quote: Originally Posted by SeaVulture I can't believe I read this thread in its entirety.
Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 18
I MUST be stupid to have endured all that just to make this point. A watch is a watch. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, then don't. Since the value of an object is only worth what a person is willing to spend, AT THAT MOMENT, get while the gettin's good. But, PLEASE, don't hammer the crap out of the goodness that we find in what others like to buy. I for one, don't really care if it's JUST a story. In fact, I lean in the direction that it is true, as I can see this from the Russian design origins, the fact that Zlatoust moved their factory from St. Petersburg during the NAZI invasion of Russia, and the manufacturer's who've made the designs since that time. The whole Witch Hunt theme, here is a bit juvenile, and befitting of folks who troll on other forums. I'm not sure what you're on about, but the Zlatoust Watch Factory was formed because of the evacuation of the First State Watch Factory from Moscow, not St. Petersburg.
kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #89 08-08-2010, 02:30 AM nevamine Senior Member Veteran Geek
And thats all he has to say about that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forest Gump. __________________ Lets go fishin and
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sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX Posts: 397
Quote: Invicta Watch Group is a Florida-based watch repair company, trading on the name, but a distinct entity from the company founded in 1837 by Raphael Picard in La Chaux-de-fonds, Switzerland. The Picard family owned and operated the company until 1991, when the company was purchased by a United States-based investment company. The corporate headquarters were relocated to Hollywood, Florida, where the company also operates its service call center. Eyal Lalo, former head of Invicta marketing in South America, is the CEO of the company and frequently appears on televised ShopNBC programs,
i do have a question no one has seemed to ask... if eyal's family didn't take control of invicta until 1991. then how did his grandmother have anything to do the commision of the 100 pieces back in the 50's is there something that i'm missing here?? or did she not have anything to do with invicta at all, and just happened to have came across two of the origanals the she gave to him?
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tommyfeds Banned Member Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by RunninOnEmpty Sounds to me like someone here doesn't own a Panerai. rude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaVulture I can't believe I read this thread in its entirety. I MUST be stupid to have endured all that just to make this point. A watch is a watch. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, then don't. Since the value of an object is only worth what a person is willing to spend, AT THAT MOMENT, get while the gettin's good. But, PLEASE, don't hammer the crap out of the goodness that we find in what others like to buy. I for one, don't really care if it's JUST a story. In fact, I lean in the direction that it is true, as I can see this from the Russian design origins, the fact that Zlatoust moved their factory from St. Petersburg during the NAZI invasion of Russia, and the manufacturer's who've made the designs since that time. The whole Witch Hunt theme, here is a bit juvenile, and befitting of folks who troll on other forums. if you don't have anything useful to add to this thread other than bashing people, stay out. no one cares that you don't care.
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Quote:
Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: 407 area code Posts: 446
Originally Posted by unclefixit FYI as Eyal stated on air, it is a non functioning watch. Maybe he should send it to CS at Invicta? *duck*
(Posted in good fun.)
Seriously, interesting topic and discussion but as Jim said, it might be time to move on (in so many words). Peace.
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jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Quote:
Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 15,841 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton
Originally Posted by Chascomm Just my opinion, but I can't make out a difference between the two photos. So does anybody have a photo of the caseback of the 1959? The one on-air was the watch Eyal brought. The one in my photograph is MY 1970's repro next to my 2004 original Invicta RD. Coulda saved a lot of guesswork by asking the guy who took the photo... __________________ Quote: Living well is the best revenge. -George Herbert Quote: Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.
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WatchYaThink Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 3,216 Real Name: Larry
Quote: Originally Posted by jskelton The one on-air was the watch Eyal brought. The one in my photograph is MY 1970's repro next to my 2004 original Invicta RD. Coulda saved a lot of guesswork by asking the guy who took the photo... Yes, but, I think that you missed the point of the question: Could the watch that Eyal brought maybe also have been a 1970's repro just like yours ? Hence, the question about the caseback. __________________ â&#x20AC;&#x153;May you grow up to be righteous, may you grow up to be true. May you always know the truth and see the lights surrounding you." ... Bob Dylan
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sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek
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Quote: Originally Posted by sunaru i do have a question no one has seemed to ask... if eyal's family didn't take control of invicta until 1991. then how did his grandmother have anything to do the commision of the 100 pieces back in the 50's is there something that i'm missing here?? or did she not have anything to do with invicta at all, and just happened to have came across two of the origanals the she gave to him? can anyone in the know clarify this please.
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Quote: Originally Posted by sunaru i do have a question no one has seemed to ask... if eyal's family didn't take control of invicta until 1991. then how did his grandmother have anything to do the commision of the 100 pieces back in the 50's is there something that i'm missing here?? or did she not have anything to do with invicta at all, and just happened to have came across two of the origanals the she gave to him? This seems like a question that has been asked before so Eyal has probably answered it previously. If so and if anyone knows the answer please share.
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This topic for me is indeed interesting, that is, to find out the true history. In this case Jim's explanation - that the "facts" being questioned were never claimed rings true to me. In any case, it is one of those things that I hope is NOT ever really settled! I kind of like the folklore.... Seems pretty harmless whatever the facts are. __________________ You mean what time is it now?
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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 145 dylan7926 Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote: Originally Posted by sunaru i do have a question no one has seemed to ask... if eyal's family didn't take control of invicta until 1991. then how did his grandmother have anything to do the commision of the 100 pieces back in the 50's is there something that i'm missing here?? or did she not have anything to do with invicta at all, and just happened to have came across two of the origanals the she gave to him? This is from the Invicta Website.... "Invicta was founded in 1837 in La Chaux-de-fonds, Switzerland by Raphael Picard, who had the radical notion that fine Swiss timepieces could be offered at modest prices. For more than a century, the assiduous little company created manual and automatic winding timepieces of exceptional design and construction. Like many Swiss names of its day, the brand all but disappeared during the quartz invasion of the early â&#x20AC;&#x17E;70s. In 1991, descendants of the Invicta family re-established the brand holding firm to the companyâ&#x20AC;&#x;s founding principle" So, I'm just guessing here, but it seems like Eyal's Family must have been at the very least involved up to the 70's. Then he, along with an investment group, bought what was left of the company back in 1991. So it's concievable that Eyal's Grandmother was around Invicta in the 1950's with Eyal not being involved until 1991. __________________ "A question ain't really a question if you know the answer too" - John Prine
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#100 08-10-2010, 10:39 AM
PTAaron Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 847 Real Name: Aaron
The level of distrust and negativity in this thread is just unbelievable to me. Why would a huge company make up a story like that? Do you honestly think that they said "Hey, lets make up this history for a watch... I'm sure no one will ever try to check if it is true or not!" Be realistic here! I have to say that it is garbage like this that has kept me away from the board except in small doses for the last few months - and apparently nothing has changed. Sad. __________________
WatchYaThink Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 3,216 Real Name: Larry
Come on Aaron ... this is not a thread full of "distrust and negativity" .... this is a discussion about the history and origins of a popular watch design by a lot of people who have an interest in such things. A lot of questions have been asked, a lot of information has been put out and a lot of issues have been clarified .... it is NOT "garbage". It is the kind of discussion and exchange of questions and information that a forum should be for. __________________ â&#x20AC;&#x153;May you grow up to be righteous, may you grow up to be true. May you always know the truth and see the lights surrounding you." ... Bob Dylan
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Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Las Vegas Nv. Posts: 3,641 Real Name: Ralph Williams
I think Jim made it very clear last night when showing the RD. Even Micheal said to Jim is that in capitals. All I know is I was lucky enough to order one of the eight 2625's they had for sale the other day and can't wait till it gets here thursday. I also love my 7750 model. Thats all I care about.
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sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote:
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX Posts: 397
Originally Posted by WatchYaThink Come on Aaron ... this is not a thread full of "distrust and negativity" .... this is a discussion about the history and origins of a popular watch design by a lot of people who have an interest in such things. A lot of questions have been asked, a lot of information has been put out and a lot of issues have been clarified .... it is NOT "garbage". It is the kind of discussion and exchange of questions and information that a forum should be for. +1
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unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,733 Real Name: Jay
Quote: Originally Posted by sunaru i do have a question no one has seemed to ask... if eyal's family didn't take control of invicta until 1991. then how did his grandmother have anything to do the commision of the 100 pieces back in the 50's is there something that i'm missing here?? or did she not have anything to do with invicta at all, and just happened to have came across two of the origanals the she gave to him? Quote: Originally Posted by hitch
This seems like a question that has been asked before so Eyal has probably answered it previously. If so and if anyone knows the answer please share. Quote: Originally Posted by dylan7926 This is from the Invicta Website.... "Invicta was founded in 1837 in La Chaux-de-fonds, Switzerland by Raphael Picard, who had the radical notion that fine Swiss timepieces could be offered at modest prices. For more than a century, the assiduous little company created manual and automatic winding timepieces of exceptional design and construction. Like many Swiss names of its day, the brand all but disappeared during the quartz invasion of the early â&#x20AC;&#x2DC;70s. In 1991, descendants of the Invicta family re-established the brand holding firm to the companyâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s founding principle" So, I'm just guessing here, but it seems like Eyal's Family must have been at the very least involved up to the 70's. Then he, along with an investment group, bought what was left of the company back in 1991. So it's concievable that Eyal's Grandmother was around Invicta in the 1950's with Eyal not being involved until 1991. I posted this awhile back... 06-11-2010, 01:08 AM
unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,612 Real Name: Jay
Quote: Originally Posted by mrblue Im thinking that the most rare may be one of the fifty original RD's made by Eyal's grandmother for the russian navy fleet ..... anyone have that one ?? .. Yeah, right ? ....... could be true though !! .. MB
The number was 100... not 50 as you've mentioned in your posts. The Russian navy brass wanted for themselves a Swiss Made version of the standard issue watch used by their fleet hard hat divers. Invicta was granted/won the contract to build 100 Swiss Made "Russian Divers" watches for the navy brass...Eyal Lalo's grandmother was running Invicta at that time. Fast forward to current times...as a gift for bringing Invicta back to health as it were, Eyal's grandmother gave to him one of those original Swiss Made in 1959, 100 that she still had in her possesion. Eyal, with his grandmothers blessing disassymbled and "blue printed" (my term) that watch. With this information he went into the building of what we now know as the Invicta "1959 Original Russian Diver" model #2625 which was released in 2004. Which FYI is actually smaller in size than any of the "1959, 100" thus making those original 100 very collectable indeed. BTW, Eyal owns two of the 100, the one his grandmother gave him and a nonfunctioning piece which was seen on SNBC in 2009.