MD: The 1960s reforms in Massachusetts were designed
1920s and 1930s and was the basis for community
to change that approach; to give governors the tools
college systems in every state after World War II. The
and the time to do the job; and to be held accountable
state’s Master Plan for public higher education of 1960
at the polls four years later.
with its guaranty of virtually free higher education was widely copied. And the California freeway system was a
DM: It is interesting to note that despite the divergence,
planning and engineering marvel for most of us and the
there was also a similarity. In California, the 1960s saw
model for the national interstate highway system.
a reform of the legislature from part-time to full-time through the ballot proposition process. The idea was to
DM: It is such a contrast with the current period in
professionalize the legislature at a time when the state
which California is routinely cited as a state with a
was embarked on substantial infrastructure projects:
government in dysfunction.
freeways, water projects, expansion of the three higher MD: California not only appeared eminently
educational systems.
governable in the 1960s, it was doing things that MD: The Massachusetts reforms also were designed
many of us at the state level in other states could
to modernize and equip the legislature for serious
only hope to achieve over time. And it was doing
public policy making. While legislative terms in both
them in ways that seemed to work with great success.
the House and Senate remained two year terms, the
Interestingly enough, it didn’t seem to make any
electronic roll call, committee consolidation, offices
difference which party controlled the governorship
and staff for legislators and for their committees all
and/or the legislature. Republican Governor Earl
arrived at about the same time. Massachusetts finally
Warren (1943-53) was considered one of the most
decided that it wanted a strong executive and a strong
successful governors in the country—the father of
legislature, and, curiously enough, it was California
the freeway system and one of the few governors
that was our model.
that came close to pushing a universal health plan through his legislature. Democrat Pat Brown (1959-
DM: You are referring to the era in California of
67), father of Jerry, was also admired and respected for
Governor Pat Brown and powerful Assembly Speaker
the enormous strides California made under him in
Jesse Unruh.
building its infrastructure and educating its students. And both achieved these gains with administrations
MD: The California governorship—by comparison with
that had a reputation for competence and integrity.
the one we had prior to the 1960s reforms—was a strong one. And the legislature, particularly under the strong
DM: So what has changed since the 1960s?
hand of Speaker Jesse “Big Daddy” Unruh, was the envy of the nation—well equipped, well staffed and
MD: Not much has changed in Massachusetts since the
responsible for enacting legislation that was widely
1960s reforms. The governorship and the legislation
admired and copied by other states across the country.
institutionally remain very strong. Although the state has not been corruption free—a recent Speaker of the
DM: What in California was so much admired?
House has just been convicted of graft—it has one of the toughest conflict of interest laws in the country, a strong
MD: California’s schools were thought to be the best
and active ethics commission, and a government a lot
in the country. The community college system began
cleaner and more competent than the one I entered as a
in California as the “junior college” back during the
young legislator back in the early 1960s.
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