Jack Kirby Collector #33 by TwoMorrows Publishing

CELEBRATING THE 40 TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE FANTASTIC FOUR!

THE NEW

C o l l e c t o r

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Fantastic Four, Sentry TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.

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Number 5, Nov.-Dec. 2001 • Hype and hullabaloo from the publisher determined to bring new life to comics fandom • Edited by Eric Nolen-Weathington

It’s a Girl!

MAREDITH LILIAN MORROW (you can call her LILY) made her debut appearance August 25th, three weeks ahead of schedule (her future editors love her already). As you can see, she’s been trying to catch up on proud Papa Morrow’s 33 back issues of THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR, and now she’s all tuckered out. We here at TwoMorrows couldn’t be happier for John and Pam. Congrats, guys! (Now you’d better hurry and catch a quick nap before Lily wakes up!)

Comic Book Artist Goes MONTHLY! That’s right! It’s not a typo— CBA is going (almost) monthly in January! Now you can get JON B. COOKE’s Eisner-award winning magazine ten times a year! And CBA #17 kicks off the new year in fine fashion with its first annual No Theme Issue featuring ARTHUR ADAMS! This issue includes an in-depth ADAMS interview, with rarely-seen art and a complete checklist! Plus, an interview with the late GEORGE EVANS (with unseen artwork), a GEORGE ROUSSOS interview including unpublished work, and an interview with EVERETT RAYMOND KINSTLER (of Classics Illustrated & Dell fame)! All this and more great surprises await you in this gargantuan grab-bag ish of COMIC BOOK ARTIST!

We Will Remember...

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Next Issue: Kirby’s Fighting Americans!

Contents OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 (a Fantastic Fortieth welcome to this, our second FF theme issue)

THE NEW

UNDER THE COVERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 (Bruce Timm and Erik Larsen give us the lowdown on this issue’s covers) COMPARISON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7 (Mark Alexander shows how Jack approached the same job differently, five years hence)

ISSUE #33, NOV. 2001

JACK F.A.Q.s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8 (Mark Evanier answers a reader’s Frequently Asked Questions about the many splendored FF cartoon series) CASTING CALL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15 (R.L. Bryant gives us his dream cast for the inevitable FF movie) MIKE GARTLAND . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16 (some not-so-strange tales about a certain Human Torch) RETROSPECTIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .23 (Glen Gold owns an amazing artifact from an incredibly forgettable issue of the FF) GALLERY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .26 (ahh, it’s what you bought this issue for anyway—a heapin’ helpin’ of Jack’s FF pencils, at glorious tabloid size!) KIRBY AS A GENRE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .52 (Adam McGovern focuses in on Erik Larsen’s Kirby influence in the World’s Greatest Comics Magazine, Savage Dragon, and the Defenders) MINI-INTERVIEWS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .57 (here and throughout the issue, we interview nearly every writer and artist who worked on the FF after Kirby) COLLABORATORS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .58 (a Stan Lee interview in TJKC? ’Nuff Said!) ANALYSIS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .64 (Mark Lerer feels Kirby’s wordsmithing got the editing it deserved during his family reunion on The Inhumans) TECHNIQUE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .68 (Shane Foley tracks down the origins of Kirby Krackle!) TRIBUTE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .72 (what FF issue would be complete without a salute to inker Joe Sinnott?) COLLECTOR COMMENTS . . . . . . . . . . .76 (even after switching to tabloid size, we’ve got letters wondering why we run the art so small) PARTING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 (a special tribute to Lily Morrow, the editor’s new little bundle of joy—she’s the reason this issue’s late, and no, we didn’t name her Jacquelyn!) Front cover inks: ERIK LARSEN Back cover painting: BRUCE TIMM Front cover color: TOM ZIUKO Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support.

COPYRIGHTS: Justice League of America TM & © DC Comics • Black Bolt, Black Panther, Captain America, Captain Mar-Vell, Crystal, Deathlok, Defenders, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Dragon Man, Fantastic Four, Frightful Four, Galactus, Gorgon, H.E.R.B.I.E., Hulk, Human Torch, Impossible Man, Inhumans, Invisible Girl, Karnak, Luke Cage, Mad Thinker, Marvel Boy, Medusa, Mole Man, Monacle, Mr. Fantastic, Paste-Pot Pete, Psycho-Man, Sandman, Sentry, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, SubMariner, Super-Skrull, Thing, Trapster, Triton, Wizard TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. • Savage Dragon TM & © Erik Larsen.

(above) 1960s Kirby Marvelmania t-shirt art, recently resurrected (if we’re not mistaken, with a little help by Steve Rude) for a new t-shirt release. © Marvel Characters, Inc. The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 9, No. 33, Nov. 2001. Published quarterly by & © TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant. Single issues: $13 postpaid ($15 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Fourissue subscriptions: $36.00 US, $60.00 Canada, $64.00 elsewhere. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is © Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. First printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.

Opening Shot I’m not overstating the book’s importance to comics. Stan and Jack’s FF was a veritable primer for would-be (and alreadybeen) comics pros in the 1960s and ’70s. Before FF, there were no “cosmic” concepts in comics, just tired sci-fi rehashes; no real menaces that threatened the Earth (let alone the Universe) the way Galactus did. There were no black heroes in mainstream comics before the Black Panther debuted in FF #52. Villains were never as wickedly clever before Dr. Doom made the scene. Few (if any) married couples went super-heroing together, or had babies, or exuded the sense of family that the FF did. Basically, the FF broadened the thinking of everyone in comics, from fan to pro, reader to publisher, and made them believe that you could stretch the boundaries of comics from covering mundane

(background) Pages from Jack’s last couple of years on the FF. (inset) Details from Jack’s “FF Meet Dr. Doom” animation storyboards, #34 and #37. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Fantastic Forty! by John Morrow, Editor

e ran our first FF theme issue back in TJKC #9, and this one serves as a sequel of sorts, meant to complement (not replace) that issue. FF #1 appeared in November 1961, and I’m proud to have assembled this issue forty years after that seminal event. Since we covered so much in issue #9, we opted to concentrate more on art than text this time out (showing 40— count ’em, 40—pages of Jack’s pencils!); but throughout this issue, you’ll find mini-interviews with nearly every writer and penciler who worked on the Fantastic Four after Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, where George Khoury asked each two questions:

• What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? • How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? Perhaps it would’ve been more appropriate to track down every artist who worked in comics after 1970 and ask them, “How did the Lee/Kirby FF influence ALL your future work?” (But hey, we still managed to miss tracking down Keith Pollard and Chris Claremont for the original questions, so I don’t think poor George Khoury would’ve been able to find everybody anyway!)

good vs. evil slugfests, into something more intellectual, more emotional, more... fantastic! Some may look at those books in today’s light and call them simplistic, or too melodramatic; but today’s light wouldn’t be as bright if the FF, under Stan and Jack, hadn’t shaped up the way it did. They took comics to another level, and the concepts, drama, and sheer power on those FF pages have influenced several generations of fans since they first appeared, and continue to do so. ★ (Note: Mike Gartland’s new “Failure To Communicate” installment wasn’t ready at presstime, but we’ll have it in an upcoming issue.)

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? Oh God, there were so many. Whenever Jack’s stuff came to the office, we used to make copies just to keep pinned up. I’ve still got a copy of a page he did. How can you pick your favorite from stuff they did together? I’m sure it was somewhere in the Silver Surfer-Galactus saga but it was almost everything. It’s hard just to pick a favorite because every month a new favorite would come. I’m sorry that I don’t have a clear favorite. I was (Artist on Fantastic Four #103-106) just looking at Captain America stuff last week admiring stuff he did when I was ten years old. He was more than just an idol; he was like “The Original.” I could never pick out a favorite.

4 JOHN ROMITA

How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? (Laughs) I’ve told this to many people, when I did those three or four issues, I didn’t even think of a panel without having about ten or fifteen of his books in front of me as a guide. I personally felt that nobody should touch the Fantastic Four after Kirby left. If it were me, if I were editor-in-chief, I would close the book down with a “Sorry, but who are we kidding?” I went to Stan Lee and asked him if they were going to drop the book, and he said, “You’re going to do it.” I said, “Are you crazy? I just told you I would drop the book.” (laughs) He asked me to do it and I did it under extreme duress because I felt inadequate. I felt anybody who tried it would be inadequate. It was like trying to raise somebody else’s child. I felt that it had to be an exact copy of Kirby to make it valid. If it didn’t look like Kirby, it wouldn’t look like Fantastic Four. Thank God that John Buscema didn’t get burdened by that kinda stuff. John kept all of Jack’s power and approach but he didn’t feel burdened by doing it exactly like Jack. It’s just my old-fashioned work ethic that felt that if you take over somebody’s book that you had to reproduce it perfectly. All those pages, I just saw them, as Kirby would do them. I tried to emulate him.

Under The Covers

his issue’s front cover is the unpublished pencil cover to Fantastic Four #64. We asked cover inker Erik Larsen to give some background on his inking of this piece, and he kindly obliged: “Inking Jack’s pencils is always a lot of fun, to be sure, but it’s hair-raising as well. My goal here was to try and be as faithful as humanly possible—this isn’t some neophyte whose work was sent my way because the editor desperately wants me to save it—this is Jack Kirby, for cryin’ out loud! Every line committed to paper was done with confidence—every line was deliberate—any wrong move and it takes away from what Jack put down. I know that most of the times when I’m asked to ink something, that those that hired me want me to put my stamp on it—they want to see me—but when inking Jack I just want to get the hell out of the way. I want to hide—my goal is to have it be pure Kirby as much as possible. It’s nervewracking, really. Every line that looks like one of mine stands out to me and drives me nuts. Successfully inking Kirby, to me, is having whoever is looking at it have some question as to who inked it. I’m not sure that I pulled that off—I’m still in there; I can’t hide. Still, I think it’s my most successful ink job yet over Kirby’s pencils. “I was inking on a lightbox rather than over the actual pencils and there can’t help but be something lost in the process, but I’m a better inker now than I was when I got to actually ink Jack’s pencils. I wish that I could have inked like this when I was working over his pencils on Phantom Force–I just ruined that stuff. The nice thing about this is that the pencils still exist out there somewhere—no pencils were destroyed in the making of this cover.”

Our back cover is from a pencil piece first published in the Kirby Masterworks portfolio [see next page]. We’d heard Bruce Timm had previously inked and colored this piece, so we contacted him about allowing us to print it. Bruce wasn’t able to track down the original piece, so he proceeded to create an entirely new version, much to our delight. Bruce comments on the creation of the art: “I’ve always loved seeing two-dimensional super-heroes rendered into ‘threedimensional’ paintings. The first such that I can recall seeing was a TV Guide illustration (by Wally Wood, it turns out) way back in the mid-1960s featuring characters from the then-current crop of super-hero cartoons. I remember thinking, “Yeah, that’s what Iron Man would look like if he were real!” Over the years, What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? They were all masterpieces. Everything that Jack Kirby turned out was a masterpiece. I can’t pick one.

JOHN BUSCEMA

How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work (Artist on Fantastic Four #107,109-118, on the FF? 130, 132, 134-141, 160, 170-172, I learned everything about 176-178, 297-309, comics from the books that Annual #11, 20 and 21) Jack did. I devoured them. They were all so fabulous.

(far left) For the published FF #64 cover (July 1967), Jack reworked this original to a reverse-view (probably at Stan’s urging, to at least be showing the FF at a front view). However, as you can see from this stat (above) of the original Joe Sinnott inks, further changes were made after Jack redrew it. Note that the Torch’s flame blast was altered to a fireball, and the blast’s explosion was removed. Also, the title box was given jagged edges to draw more attention to the title. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(left) Bruce Timm’s art for the cover of Justice League Adventures #1 (on sale now), which was “3-D” painted by Alex Ross. © DC Comics. 5

I got a kick out of seeing other ‘painterly’ interpretations of the super-guys—everything from Peter Caras’ Doc Savage-esque Captain America paperback cover to H.J. Ward’s (!) Superman to Steranko’s dynamite FF and Cap Marvel Comics Index covers, and even those weird British hardback Annual covers. So, for my second crack at a Kirby Collector cover, I decided to try my hand at a fullyrendered approach to the King. “Now, translating Kirby into ‘3-D’ is a tricky proposition; his style is about as far removed from ‘reality’ as you could get—the anatomy’s all wrong, the lighting is very flat, and his backgrounds are stylized almost to the point of abstraction. Not to mention those damned/glorious/ maddeninglyhard-to-imitate Kirby ‘squiggles’— they just don’t occur in nature! How to make them look ‘real’? It’s hard enough to interpret them when they’re meant to represent highlights on metallic surfaces—harder than you’d think— but Kirby uses ’em everywhere; on cloth, flesh, and even hair! Oy. “Since my own ‘painting’ approach (I actually use markers and colored pencils almost exclusively; I’ve never been able to make brushes bow to my will) is itself more stylized/less literal, I chose to follow Kirby’s pencils as closely as possible, using color ‘holding lines’ instead of black, varying values to suggest depth, etc., rather than doing the whole ‘Alex Ross’ number with photo-reference, multiple light-sources, etc. (though I have to say Alex’s Captain America piece 6

from Kirby Collector #19 is the single best painted interpretation of Kirby ever). The one big change I made to Kirby’s original was to put Johnny in full “Flame On” mode—sorry, Jack! “So, if my finished piece is more a ‘drawing-incolor” than an actual ‘painting’—so be it! It’d make a good British Annual cover!”

(“By the way, I haven’t actually clapped eyes on that Wally Wood TV Guide illo in over thirty years; if anyone’s got a copy of it, and would like to send a scan or color xerox of it to me via TwoMorrows, I’d dearly appreciate it...”) ★ (above) Art from the Kirby Masterworks portfolio. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

COMPARISON

Progressing To A Tangent (5 Years On)

by Mark Alexander

(this page) Examples of how Jack would revise his covers given the second chance. It’s possible Marvel simply couldn’t find stats of the originals when it came time to reprint them (perhaps because they’d loaned them out for overseas reprints), and asked Jack to recreate them. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

TANGENT: To change suddenly to another line of action. Webster’s New World Dictionary arvel Collectors’ Item Classics was a 1960s reprint comic which ran early FF stories as its main feature. For no apparent reason, Jack was assigned to draw a new cover for issue #19 (Feb. 1969, John Verpoorten inks), which reprinted FF #27 (June 1964, Chic Stone inks). (Every other issue of MCIC featured the original Kirby cover.) Regardless of why this was done, it gives us a unique opportunity to examine Kirby’s artistic progression from mid-’64 to early-’69, which marked his greatest period of growth and evolution. Considering Jack’s penchant to constantly spew forth new ideas and creations, it’s surprising that he would choose to do a fairly faithful remake of the original cover. In a similar instance, when asked to redesign the cover of FF #35 (Feb. 1965, with Colletta inks), he took a decidedly different approach (see Marvel’s Greatest Comics #27, June 1970, with John Verpoorten inks, above). In any event, the first thing one notices about the new MCIC #19 cover is that the figures in the foreground seem looser and more supple, particularly Sue and Namor, who by comparison look stiff and rigid on the original. The later-day Torch and Thing both display a greater sense of urgency and rage because of their exaggerated forward thrust which is entirely absent from the ’64 version. One also notices an increased sense of motion due to the use of “zip ribbons” on Dr. Strange and Namor. (For more info about “zip ribbons” read Scott McCloud’s indispensable book Understanding Comics.) Finally, instead of floor tiles, newly-prominent shadows flow from the base of each figure, and these pools of black serve three purposes:

1. They “ground” the characters 2. They create the illusion of an overhead light source and 3. They spare the artist the tedious task of penciling a line-pattern on the floor (see original), which would recede into a vanishing point. The later-day Kirby uses shadowing as a speedier, more efficient way to fill out the bottom of the page. He chooses design over draftsmanship, and considering the rather askew one-point perspective of the original floor, his instincts were correct. ★

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? Surely, you aren’t asking me to pick just one issue! I love the entire Lee/Kirby run. Even their lesser issues are good, entertaining comics. But I’d have to say that the book really solidified when Joe Sinnott’s inking was added to the mix. Fantastic Four #44-60—including “The Torch That Was” from FF Annual #4 (between issues #56 and #57)—is one of the greatest storylines in comics history. There’s the introduction of the Inhumans, the Silver Surfer and Galactus, Wyatt Wingfoot... all followed by the wonderful “This Man, This Monster”... and then, the Black Panther, Klaw, Prester John, the Thing tearing into the Surfer again, the return of the original Human Torch... and finally, everything wrapping up with Doctor Doom stealing the Surfer’s powers, Black Bolt freeing the Inhumans, and the FF getting Doom to defeat himself. During that period, it truly was “The World’s Greatest Comics Magazine!” How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? Constantly. As far as I’m concerned, I was following John Byrne and Lee-&-Kirby. I wanted to be faithful to what John had established, but—in plotting as well as scripting—I was always asking myself, “What would Stan and Jack have done?” They created all of those wonderful characters, and I had a responsibility to be faithful to them.

4 ROGER STERN

(Writer on Fantastic Four #294-295, 297-303)

Mark evanier (right) A very simplistic FF rendition, from their 1960s cartoon series. Art © Hanna-Barbera. FF © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(below) Alex Toth’s 1967 model sheet for Dr. Doom. Art © Hanna-Barbera.

(next page) Jack’s storyboards from the 1970s FF series (board #20a and Herbie detail from #36).

Jack F.A.Q.s

A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby by Mark Evanier Our question this time out comes from Kirk Groeneveld of Athens, OH who writes: I recently bought a used VHS copy of Marvel Matinee, Volume One for my daughters. We enjoyed the first feature, “Pryde of the X-Men” very much, but it made an interesting contrast with the Spider-Man and Fantastic Four episodes from circa mid-1980s. (The FF featured Herbie instead of the Human Torch.) None of the voices in the simplistic FF cartoon show sounded right, except for Reed Richard’s voice, who was credited as Mike Roads. I wondered if he was the voice of Mr. Fantastic from the 1960s series also? I noted Ted Cassidy (“Lurch” from The Addams Family) played Ben. Perhaps a column on all the actors who played voice roles in Kirby-drawn/written Marvel Super-Hero cartoons would be of interest? Did Jack have an opinion on the appropriateness of voices used for his creations? Somehow, even though Reed sounded right, he still seemed out of character; unsure, not confident, not insightful, etc. I also noted Jack Kirby received a rather prominent credit for storyboards in the end credits of the FF. How large a role did he play? Did he have to work with Stan Lee much or closely on this project? I find the artwork crude and simplistic, with poorly rendered faces and costumes. (Example: The Sandman’s modern green costume headpiece, which Jack Kirby drew as a thick plastic block strap in FF #61-63, appears as a thin piece of cloth in the cartoon. Even Trapster’s and Wizard’s helmets are too small.)

Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

irst off, since you mentioned the Fantastic Four cartoon show from 1978, I probably ought to refute one of the great Urban Myths of Comic Book History, namely the claim that they replaced the Human Torch with H.E.R.B.I.E. the Robot because they were afraid that the Torch might inspire some kid somewhere to play with fire or set himself ablaze. This is not true. Although the folks in Standards and Practices at the networks have done some bizarre things, the decision on this never got as far as their offices. What happened was that, shortly before that show was launched, Marvel made a deal that licensed a number of their characters to Universal Studios to be developed as live-action TV-movies and potential series. The Incredible Hulk TV show (the one with Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno) came out of that deal, as did TV-movies of Dr. Strange and Captain America. The Human Torch was one of the characters that Universal wanted to develop, and a teleplay was written but never produced.

This meant that the television rights to the Torch were encumbered at the time the Fantastic Four show was going into production, and a deal could not be reached to include him. Therefore, he was replaced by a robot named H.E.R.B.I.E., conceived and named by Stan Lee and designed by Jack. This was, of course, the second Fantastic Four cartoon show. The first was produced in 1967 and 1968 by the folks at Hanna-Barbera. It was written primarily by Phil Hahn and Jack Hanrahan (two top comedy writers of the day, and veterans of Mad Magazine) and designed mainly by Alex Toth. The voice cast for this show featured: • Gerald Mohr as Reed Richards. Mohr was a longtime character actor with extensive credits in movies, television and even on radio where he played, at various times, Phillip Marlowe, Johnny Dollar, and even The Lone Ranger. His rich, deep voice often brought him jobs as an announcer/narrator. He filled that post in Disney’s The Reluctant Dragon, for instance. In the Sixties, he did a brief flood of TV commercials and a few animation projects. At the time he was portraying Mr. Fantastic, he was also playing Green Lantern on Filmation’s Superman-Aquaman series over on CBS—two roles that capped a career that dated back to bit roles in Charlie Chan movies of the Thirties. He passed away six months after recording his final episode of the Fantastic Four cartoon show. • Jo Ann Pflug as Sue Storm. Ms. Pflug was then an up-and-coming actress with credits on Beverly Hillbillies, Bracken’s World and several other network shows. Shortly after voicing The Invisible Girl, she would gain fame as the comely Lieutenant Dish in the renowned motion picture of M*A*S*H. • Jack Flounders as Johnny Storm. That’s all I know about him. There are no other known credits for him—at Hanna-Barbera or elsewhere— and it would not surprise me if we’re dealing here with a phony name.

Boris Badenov, Ludwig Von Drake, The Pillsbury Doughboy and hundreds of others. To my knowledge, Jack never commented on the voices on this or any of the cartoon shows based on characters he’d drawn. His feelings about the show itself were pretty basic: He was proud to see that his designs and the storylines of comics he’d done with Stan adapted so well to animation, and pleased to see the brief credit line he and Stan received in the closing credits. He was annoyed, however, that he did not receive a cent for the reuse of his material. 20 episodes of the show were produced over two years—16 the first, and four more to “freshen” the series for the following season. The show was a very modest success and did not do well in syndicated reruns. Nevertheless, in late 1977, Hanna-Barbera decided to take a run at trying to place a revival with some network for a series to commence in September of 1978. As is customary, the “pitch” would involve sample scripts and outlines, as well as large art presentation pieces that might intrigue a buyer. (It is a strange, inexplicable fact of the cartoon business that shows are usually sold with fancy artwork that—everyone knows—will in no way resemble the series.) H-B attempted to engage Toth for this purpose but he was unavailable. So was their second choice, Doug Wildey, who had worked extensively in both comics and animation. Doug was then designing a Godzilla cartoon show that a

• Paul Frees as The Thing and most of the villains. Frees was, of course, one of the great voice actors of his day, notching thousands of commercials, narration jobs, animated cartoons, and film dubbing gigs. A very thick book could and reportedly is currently being written about Frees’ career which included originating the roles of What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? If I go back over it, I would have to say the very first issue, which I really loved. I bought several copies of it—sold one of them at fifty cents—because it was the start of something really different; no costumes, the monster, the human emotion and things to that end. When I look back at it, even though it got much thicker after that, everything was so much there in that issue. While I enjoyed many other issues in-between (Writer of Fantastic Four #119-130, this and that, I can’t say there was really any 132, 156-178) other issue that I enjoyed more than that very first one. It kept getting better and better, and I love the Silver Surfer trilogy as much as anybody, but by then I was working at Marvel so I saw it in a little different light than I would if I had been buying it off the stands. The other thing is not a particular issue, but the very first story of the character Klaw, which had this one page that I remember proofreading at Marvel. I was proofing a page in which Reed picks up this gadget that the Thing wears which is practically

4 ROY THOMAS

covering him and Reed says, “Can you run towards the door?”And the Thing says, “Run towards it? I can’t even see it.” I remember proofing that and laughing out loud, which was something that I would rarely do when reading a super-hero comic. Although it’s not a favorite story, it’s an all-time favorite page of the Fantastic Four even though there’s a tremendous amount of copy on it, because it just goes back and forth, but the dialogue was so nice and so much fun that I liked that page. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? Basically it inspired it almost entirely, but in some ways it was very inhibiting. I never really felt that I could improve on what Stan and Jack had done. In glancing at it over the years, nobody has come out as well as when Stan and Jack did it. Nobody has ever improved on it except in certain minor ways of tuning, which can’t always be said of characters that are created by one person or team and then taken over by someone else. In my case, I just kept referring back to those issues and I wanted to find new things to do, and at the same time I felt that it had to fit into this Lee-Kirby framework because anything out of that wasn’t the Fantastic Four. It was a very strong influence. Even though Jack wasn’t there when I did Fantastic Four, the fact remained that those were two long shadows over me. Once in a while a creation is just so perfect that all you do is just keep doing riffs on it and not mess with it too much. 9

Jack laid these storyboards out with two “strips” on a sheet, so we number them “a” and “b” when both aren’t shown. “The FF Meet Dr. Doom” consists of 63 doubledecker boards. (top) Detail from board #9. (center) Board #13a. (below) Board #14a detail.

rival studio, DePatie-Freleng, was hoping to place with NBC. At the time, I was working for H-B and when I heard about the FF project, I went to Iwao Takamoto, who was in charge of all art at the studio. I asked if he’d thought to hire Jack Kirby to do the presentation graphics. He said, “We’d love to but Kirby lives in New York and we need someone local.” “No,” I told him. “Jack lives right outside Los Angeles” and I gave him the phone number. The next day, Jack’s wife Roz drove him down to the studio where he was immediately engaged to do the work at a very handsome fee—his first work in animation since his low-level job at the Max Fleischer Studio in 1936. His drawings were due in two weeks, so studio executives were astonished when he was back in two days with everything completed—and better than they’d ever imagined. Joe Barbera especially was astounded at the power in Jack’s boards. He spoke of Kirby as a “new find” and instantly offered him other design projects. A month later, NBC agreed to buy a new Fantastic Four cartoon show... but not from Hanna-Barbera. They were going to buy it from DePatie-Freleng. A major supplier of TV animation for two decades, DePatie-Freleng had been formed out of the ashes of the legendary Warner Brothers cartoon studio. Isadore “Friz” Freleng had been the studio’s most prolific director, supervising theatrical shorts of Bugs Bunny, Tweety and Sylvester, Daffy Duck and many more. When the demand for theatrical animation declined and WB opted to fold that division, Freleng teamed with studio executive David DePatie, acquired some of the studio’s facilities and went into business. By the Seventies, both DePatie and Freleng had all but retired, leaving day-to-day operations to a former film editor named Lee Gunther. The studio’s main outlet was producing Saturday morning cartoon shows, and Gunther had licensed several Marvel properties for that purpose before proposing that the two companies go into partnership. A deal was made and Stan Lee relocated to Southern California to represent his company’s interests. (Only a few years later, many of the assets and personnel of DePatieFreleng would be acquired to form Marvel’s own animation studio, Marvel Productions, with Gunther initially at the helm. If someone will write in and ask, I can tell the story Gunther told me of how he requested that Kirby come up with something similar to his Kamandi comic book, and Jack responded with Devil Dinosaur.) Kirby’s presentation art for H-B had helped arouse interest at NBC in a new Fantastic Four show. DePatie-Freleng, with a firmer grip on the rights to the property, managed to close the deal

Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

You can find more storyboards from “The FF Meet Dr. Doom” episode in the Collected Kirby Collector Vol. One (boards #6, 7, 8, 28b, 29, 30, 31, 32, & 33a), Collected Kirby Collector Vol. Two (boards #3, 4, & 5), and Jack Kirby Collector #30 (boards #10, 11, & 12).

and to redirect the project to them. Hanna-Barbera objected and, to compensate the studio for its role, a deal was brokered whereby the Godzilla series, which NBC also wanted, would be transferred to H-B, with Doug Wildey coming along as the show’s producer. Simultaneously, Jack was offered jobs by both animation studios—both promising comparable salaries, both willing to let him work at home. It was a stunning turn of events in Kirby’s life. At the time, he was writing and drawing Captain America, Black Panther and 2001: A Space Odyssey for Marvel. He was not particularly happy to be back at What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? the company, working under a page Oh boy, I can’t remember the exact issue but I started reading quota that forced him to crank out Fantastic Four around #20. Whatever issue number where the piles of comic book pages—a whole story is about Atlantis, that whole epic. That’s what got format with which he was me hooked. growing bored and somewhat frustrated. At age 60, How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your he was eager to try new work on the FF? forms and media while he I think that everybody was inspired by Stan Lee and Jack still could, and there was Kirby. I was constantly inspired by Jack Kirby’s art—not just (Artist on Fantastic Four #142-144, also a certain amount of fricone specific style of his but his whole creative development 147-152, 155-163, 168-169, throughout his career. I followed all the different styles; I loved tion with certain members of 329-335, how he just explored new things in new ways to dynamically Marvel’s editorial crew. Giant-Size #1 and #4) express the figure and especially his very clear, more cinematic He had tentatively decided storytelling. That’s what I like the most and that’s what affected me most. that, if other work was available, he

4 RICH BUCKLER

would not renew his then-current contract with Marvel. At the time he made this decision, he had no idea where that “other work” might be found. Suddenly, two cartoon studios were fighting over him. At first, he was torn over which offer to accept. The opportunity to finally, at long last, become involved with the TV adaptation of one of his books was tempting. But that meant putting aside feelings of past injustices and overriding a very real distrust he had come to have for Marvel. As Roz later said, “Jack never wanted anyone to think he had forgiven all that had been done to him in the past. But he also didn’t want to cut himself off from any possible rewards for what he’d done.” Two things finally caused him to opt for DePatie-Freleng. The lesser reason was that Marvel was then developing several live-action motion pictures based on comics Jack had cocreated. None of these projects materialized but the opportunity to become involved with them was dangled at Kirby, and he was skeptical but intrigued. The main reason though was that Marvel still had him under contract to produce fifteen comic book pages per week. As unhappy as some in the editorial division were with Jack’s output, the firm would only reduce his commitment if he signed on for the Fantastic Four show. It would have been difficult, if not impossible for him to continue to work for Hanna-Barbera and to fulfill his page quota. This Fantastic Four cartoon show reunited Kirby with characters he had long left behind. An attempt was made to adapt the Marvel Method of writing comics to the creation of animation scripts and storyboards. Reversing the usual process, Kirby did storyboards before the dialogue was written—mostly by Stan Lee or Roy Thomas. Within the animation industry, the experiment was considered a complete disaster and, to my knowledge, has never been tried again. It is doubtful that even an experienced storyboard artist, versed in all aspects of the animation

process, could have produced useable boards without having the dialogue already writtenout... and Jack, who had no idea how Saturday morn cartoons were made, certainly could not. Put simply, he didn’t know what he was doing, nor was there time for him to learn. Other artists—primarily a producer named Lew Marshall— What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your had to cut, paste and adapt Kirby’s favorite and why? storyboards to make them workable. They Issue #51, “This Man, This Monster.” Wonderfully managed to preserve most of Jack’s basic drawwritten, wonderfully drawn. It was a story ings and these were of enormous aid to the derived almost totally from character—the artists who had to do the layouts, many of great friendship between Reed and Ben, and whom were veterans of more cartoony the effect of that friendship on the “villain” shows and unsuited to adventure design. As of the piece. for the voices in this show: How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? It taught me, as a writer, that the best stories come from character. My work on the FF never rose to the level of quality Stan achieved with that one story, but I kept trying anyway.

4 GERRY CONWAY

(Writer on Fantastic Four #134-152, Giant-Size #1)

• Veteran actor Mike Road was Mr. Fantastic. Road had extensive credits in live-action TV (mostly on westerns) and animation (Jonny Quest’s father and several characters on The Herculoids, for instance).

(left) Board #60 detail. (below) Board #42 detail. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(next two pages) The Dr. Doom origin sequence storyboards (boards #1519), from “The F.F. Meet Dr. Doom” episode of the 1970s FF cartoon. (page 14) The many faces of Doom, from boards #13, 35, 37, 62, 54, 55, & 62 (again). Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

• Veteran voice actress Ginny Tyler was the Invisible Woman, and Ted Cassidy—best known as Lurch on The Addams Family—did The Thing. (Cassidy was concurrently growling for Godzilla on Doug Wildey’s show. The 6' 9" actor passed away only weeks after recording the last Fantastic Four episode.) • H.E.R.B.I.E. was performed by the incredible Frank Welker, who is easily the most prolific voice actor of all time, logging thousands of appearances. Among his Kirby connections was that he performed the role of Iceman on a later Spider-Man animated series, and did both Darkseid and DeSaad on the Hanna-Barbera Super Friends show. (Two quick stories about Frank: One is that, initially, the voice he did for H.E.R.B.I.E. was sped up after recording to give it a high-pitched, electronic quality. For the first few sessions, Frank was unaware they were doing this. When he found out, he asked to hear the sped voice track and, to everyone’s amazement, he thereafter matched it without the electronic assist.) (Other quick story: At a party one time, I introduced Frank to Jack and viceversa. Frank can sound like anyone—you hear him all the time dubbing other actors, only you don’t know it’s him—and he instantly “got” Kirby’s voice. A few minutes later, he did it for Roz. Her jaw fell open and she said, “We’ve been married for forty years and, if I heard that voice on the phone, I’d swear it was Jack.”) Though the show did not succeed, Jack was pleased that he’d gotten to work in a new field, albeit on old characters. He felt enormously welcomed into the animation industry. Its “old-timers” all knew his work and respected what he had done, while so many younger artists expressed enormous excitement at working with the man whose work

had inspired them. That, Kirby decided, was his future. It was not lost on Jack that, even as a newcomer to the animation field, he received a better salary than his top salary in comic books, and a health plan, as well. (When medical problems soon hit both Jack and Roz, the latter commented that getting out of comics and obtaining decent health insurance had saved their home, if not their lives.)

So Jack Kirby decided that, when his current contractual obligations were met, he would get out of comics... and he did. He spent the bulk of his remaining productive years working in animation, primarily for Ruby-Spears Productions, initially on Thundarr the Barbarian. The 1977 Fantastic Four show was followed by an oft-forgotten Thing cartoon show, produced by Hanna-Barbera and aired in 1979. The concept— which had a teenager intermittently turning into The Thing via a magic ring—was conceived with an original character as the teen’s alter-ego. Fred Silverman, who was then running NBC, decided

the premise needed a “name” monster and a deal was made to license the character from Marvel. Impressionist Joe Baker was asked to imitate Jimmy Durante when he supplied the voice. The Thing show was packed with Flintstones reruns and titled Fred and Barney Meet the Thing. New animated titles and bumpers were done, showing all the title characters frolicking together but, apart from that, they did not interact. Then in 1994, Marvel Productions produced 26 episodes of a new Fantastic Four show, closely supervised by and occasionally featuring Stan Lee. Beau Weaver (who, six years earlier, had voiced the title character on a short-lived Superman animated series) was Mr. Fantastic. Lori Alan played Sue Storm, Chuck McCann was The Thing, and the role of the Human Torch was played by Brian Austin Green in the first season and Quinton Flynn in the second. Kirby was not involved in either series. As far as I know, he never saw the Thing dancing with Fred and Barney, and he passed away before the ’94 show debuted. Despite this, I think it’s safe to say that he would have been proud that something he co-created had proven so popular, but would have been extremely unhappy to receive neither cash or credit. Next question? ★ Got a Kirby-related question you’d like answered? Let Mark Evanier give it a shot! Send your questions to: Jack F.A.Q.s 5850 W. 3rd St., #367 Los Angeles, CA 90036 or e-mail Mark at: me@evanier.com Be sure to check out Mark’s website for a cavalcade of cool stuff about Kirby, Hollywood, and more: www.evanier.com

Casting Call (this page) Art from FF #9, their first venture into Hollywood. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Below is Robert’s dream cast for the FF movie:

Bruce Greenwood as Reed Richards. (As JFK, he carried the weight of the world wonderfully in the Cuban-missile-crisis drama Thirteen Days. All he needs is some gray around the temples.)

Mira Sorvino as Sue Storm. (She’s got Sue’s strength, vulnerability and va-va-voom body. And in Mimic, she proved she can even act against giant cockroaches.)

Ben Affleck as Johnny Storm. (He’s made a career of playing young hotheads. Pun intended.)

James Gandolfini (The Sopranos) as Ben Grimm, pretransformation. (Nobody will be laughing at this guy. And once you picture him reading Ben’s 1960s dialogue, you won’t be able to think of anyone else for the part.)

Lights! Camera! Action!

Ruminations on why we’re still waiting for the Fantastic Four film, by Robert L. Bryant Jr. orty years ago this fall, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby fired a sleek starship into space, and when it fell back to Earth, its passengers had become “more than just human.” One could stretch. One could turn invisible. One turned lumpy and orange, like Metamucil with legs. One could burst into fire. Lee and Kirby made a comic book catch fire, too. Happy birthday, Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny: It’s four decades since Fantastic Four #1 (cover-dated November 1961). Forty years of continuous publication. Forty years of name recognition. Forty years of cash registers ringing. So where’s the movie? Granted, you couldn’t have done a convincing Mr. Fantastic, Human Torch or Thing without sophisticated computer-generated effects of the type that weren’t proven to be feasible until Terminator 2 (1991) and Jurassic Park (1993). But once Steven Spielberg showed that strings of ones and zeroes could be transformed into utterly realistic T. Rexes and Velociraptors, making Reed stretch like a mainsail and showing Ben toss boulders ceased to be a big problem. A big-budget FF film has been kind of, sort of in the works for years at 20th Century Fox. (And no, the micro-budgeted Roger Corman “place-holding” production doesn’t count.) The real problems seem to be the script and the budget and the tone of the whole enterprise. At one point, Chris Columbus (Home Alone) had been slated to direct the FF movie. He famously estimated the necessary budget at $280 million—say, Titanic plus Saving Private Ryan— and said it would cost $100,000 just to show the FF walk through a door. Then, Raja Gosnell (Big Momma’s House) was attached to the FF project as director. Late this Spring, word came that Peyton Reed (of the Kirsten Dunst cheerleader comedy Bring It On) had been signed as the FF’s director. “He has a great sense of comedy,” Marvel exec for motion pictures Avi Arad was quoted as saying. “The Fantastic Four are a dysfunctional family. It’s a comedy.” (Look! A furry orange rockman! Didn’t anybody read Lee and Kirby’s “This Man, This Monster” in 1966? The Thing ain’t funny!) One factor that’s probably been holding back the FF film is what we might call the Genre Gap. What works well on a comics page often falls flat on a big screen. (Which is why Wolverine wears cool black leather, not dorky yellow Spandex, in Bryan Singer’s X-Men movie.) Author Michael Chabon, who won a Pulitzer Prize for The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, a Kirby-inspired novel set in the early comics industry, understands this dilemma. For a February newspaper story, I asked him why it was so hard for studios to make a good super-hero movie. Chabon replied, in part: “The relationship between comics and film is less obvious than the superficial resemblance of a comics page to a film storyboard might lead your average producer to believe. And then there is the simple fact that we will just not accept some things—

such as a white-haired black woman flying up an elevator shaft, shooting sparks from her hands—in a film, where the required degree of realism is very, very high. You could really see them in X-Men—a pretty good try, I thought—struggling against conventions of the genre, such as tight outfits and kooky names.” You’d think the success of the X-Men movie would boost the Fantastic Four film’s prospects—if one Marvel super-team can be profitable for Fox, why not two? Again, a sticking point seems to be the budget: If the Thing is realized with computer graphics, then just a shot of Ben snoozing in a chair might cost a fortune. Mutant genes blessed, say, Wolverine with cheaper super-powers. (In fact, director Singer was able to realize tagteams of good and evil mutants on a relatively lean $75 million budget—a lesson that won’t be lost on Fox when and if the FF film does begin shooting.) “It’s a wildly expensive story to tell,” Sam Hamm, one of several Fantastic Four screenwriters, told Cinescape in the magazine’s May/June 2001 issue. “You’ve got four (main) characters... and three of them are, by their very nature, expensive CGI effects. And then you’ve got good old cheap Invisible Girl. She’s a prop on a wire. You gotta love that.” And consider this: All these cost worries are for the FF alone. At least in the classic Lee-Kirby incarnation, the FF always seemed to work best when firmly fixed in the context of the whole Marvel Universe, sharing a stage with Galactus, the Silver Surfer, the Inhumans, the Black Panther, the Watcher. Except possibly for the Watcher, that cosmic voyeur, all those characters are a movie in themselves. (And some, like the Panther, may well become a movie in the near future.) Can the FF hold the stage alone, so to speak? Without the vast Lee-Kirby supporting cast, which gave the FF texture and depth, are they just comedy fodder for the big screen? Accidental heroes in an action comedy along the lines of Men in Black? That might not be a bad movie. But Kirby deserves better. Still, we can always hope. If Ang Lee (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) is willing to direct The Incredible Hulk, anything’s possible. (But he’ll probably call it Crouching Monster, Hidden Scientist.) Hey, maybe The Hulk is really a comedy, too? ★ 15

Mike Gartland

The “Other” FF (or,

by Mike Gartland

(below) Detail from the Human Torch pin-up in FF #3 (March 1962). Sol Brodsky inks. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

ots of times comic book enthusiasts reflect on their favorite stories, genres, characters, etc. and often agree on one fact: Once you’ve read a new story, the spontaneity and excitement are lost forever. You can go back of course and re-read it, enjoy it, savor it with a nostalgic zeal, but the moment of that first time is never quite the same. So it is (or was) with those of us who grew up ingesting the classic stories of the Kirby/Lee Fantastic Four. If you’ve gone over those 102 issues and six Annuals, then that’s all there’ll ever be as far as the FF are concerned; or is it? There may be another option open, another chance to capture that excitement again, albeit in a diluted form. As all true Marvel historians know, 1961 was the year it all began; but in reality it was 1962 that was the watershed. That was the year many of us not only discovered the existence of the FF, but were introduced to great new characters like Spider-Man, Ant-Man, Thor, the Hulk, and the Human Torch. Wait! That last one can’t be right! The Human Torch wasn’t new; but he was! And why start up all these new guys in existing titles and then put in a character who was not only a throwback, but was already in a relatively new title already? And what about that chance to read some other Kirby/Lee FFs? Well....

True, the Human Torch was hardly a new character by 1962. The hero was originally created in 1939 by Carl Burgos. Initially, the Torch was an android that resembled a human male; due to a flaw in its creation, the

android would burst into flame whenever exposed to oxygen. This problem was surmounted by the end of the first story and the character learned to control its ability to flame. The Torch went on to become one of the “Big Three” superheroes in the (then) Timely Comics line, the other 16

two heroes being the Sub-Mariner and Captain America. Editor Stan Lee and publisher Martin Goodman both developed a fondness for the character: Lee’s was based on the uniqueness of the character and the ability to get an exciting story out of him; Goodman’s was based on, naturally, the character’s ability to sell books and turn a profit. By the end of the Forties, super-heroes were done, but Lee wouldn’t forget them for very long. To that extent, by the early Fifties, Lee tried to bring the Big Three back, but the timing was off. Psychiatrist Fredric Wertham’s anti-comics crusade and the Kefauver hearings on Juvenile Delinquency, plus the fact that a tabloid publication ran a story of a child immolating himself because he wanted to be like the Human Torch, pretty much put an end to the hopeful revival; but still Lee wouldn’t forget, and after cancellations, layoffs and hardships, finally— with the arrival of DC’s new heroes and the return of Jack Kirby—the timing would be perfect. In 1961, when Kirby and Lee were brainstorming over the characters that would eventually become the Fantastic Four, according to Lee it was he who suggested using the Torch in the new group (some have speculated that he wanted to bring back the Big Three at this time, but this is yet to be determined as fact). The Torch came back, but either Lee or Kirby saw to it that it wasn’t the original Torch. During the course of the group’s development, it was determined to make the Torch a true human; and in order to give the group a sense of “family,” have him be related to one of the other members. In this case the female member, the Invisible Girl, would be his sibling. The new Torch was also to be an adolescent, thereby giving the character an air of freshness, humor, and unpredictability, not to mention “teen” appeal. Lee showed his determination and respect to the old guard when, mere months after re-creating the Torch, he brought back the SubMariner, coincidentally at the hands of the Torch; a nostalgic tip of the hat. It didn’t take long after the FF started rolling that it became apparent to Lee that all four characters were developing their respective fans. Remembering the popularity of his Golden Age antecedent, Lee decided to give this new Torch his own series. In an interview Lee said: “We thought the Torch would be the most popular (of the four), and didn’t consider the Thing at that time.” Although the Thing’s popularity with fans would indeed grow fast and eventually eclipse that of the Torch, it was better sense at that time to go with the fiery youngster, as there was that teen audience to tap and Kirby and Lee already had a monster/hero they had just launched, the Hulk. As with most of the new series being premiered, Lee would put the Torch in a previously non-hero title

Not-So-Strange Tales) (due to the publishing restrictions put on Marvel by its thendistributor). It was determined that the Torch series would go into the Strange Tales comic starting with issue #101 and, just as with the other non-hero to hero titles, Lee would see to the initiation of the series with Kirby, then hand over scripting duties to his brother Larry Lieber.

Lieber was the principal scripter for the early issues showcasing not only the Torch, but Thor, the Ant-Man, and Iron-Man as well. Based on plots allegedly given by Lee, Lieber would, in his words, give full scripts to the artists he was working with. It is noted in several instances of viewing the original art, however, that Kirby (at least) leaves visible notations of dialogue and/or captions underneath the areas of the art where the word balloons would be put; this has only been seen on originals where there is an intermediate scripter (ie. Lee’s plot, someone else’s script). It appears to me, having researched many Kirby Marvel originals that, as far as his involvement with the scripters went, the art tells the tale. In stories where there is a definite co-working of plot and story between scripter and artist, there are virtually no notes left by Jack. In stories where he is working with someone else’s plot or script, there are additions or changes made by Kirby as he draws the story, adding his input in dialogue/captions where the balloons would go. In stories where Jack was driving the plots and others would follow up with the scripting afterword in the form of dialogue/captions, there are copious notes left by Jack in the borders. It’s also documented that Kirby almost always was in on the visual design of the characters being created, whether he drew the story or not. Kirby would design the villain or hero while usually doing the cover, thus giving the resident artist a visual template; this clearly

indicates that Jack must have been aware of at least the basic plots to many stories he either didn’t draw, or would later draw under another’s (in this case, Lieber’s) script. Issue #101 established the parameters of the new Torch with new readers. It goes over the origin of the FF and how young Johnny Storm gained his powers. It also introduces the locale of Glenville, a sleepy, allAmerican, WASPish environment where everything is “Happy Days” except for insane super-villains, aliens, dimension warps, etc.—you know, the usual stuff. Johnny lives here with his sister, whom everyone knows is the Invisible Girl, but for some inexplicable reason it’s given that, in this series, the Torch has a secret identity (in this town anyway). It was established early on in the pages of FF that the identities of the Four were known to the general public. Giving the Torch a secret identity may have been a miscommunication between

Lee and Lieber, or it may have been on purpose, as it is spotted early on, but used as an “in” joke on the Torch by his friends and classmates in the town; the secret identity fiasco is eventually dropped within six issues. The first published story (all Torch stories would be anywhere from 12-14 pages in length) involves a masked saboteur named the Destroyer (this was a pre-Thor Destroyer, mind you) who is caught and unmasked à la ScoobyDoo by story’s end. Issue #102 introduces the Wizard, who would become the arch-nemesis of the series, even though he appears only four times in the entire run; and as with many Kirby creations, he never looks as good as he does in that first panel appearance on page two, an acromegalic masterpiece, God help him. Issue #103 is interesting with respect to, not the story which is pretty much standard sciencefiction fare—“Zemu of The Fifth Dimension” (it does give the Torch his first one-on-one with

(left) The Fantastic Four—particularly Sue Storm—made appearances in the Torch’s solo stories. Shown here are panels from Strange Tales #102 (Nov. 1962). Inks by Ayers. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(left) Looking closely at the original art, you can see vestiges of Kirby’s handwriting under the final lettering in the balloons from Strange Tales #108 (May 1963), begging the question: Did Jack simply copy Stan Lee’s and Larry Lieber’s pre-written dialogue onto the artwork (but why?), or did Jack have a hand in writing the dialogue for these stories? © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(left) The FF’s origin in Strange Tales #101 (Oct. 1962). Dick Ayers inks. (below) Paste-Pot Pete’s debut from the splash of Strange Tales #104 (Jan. 1963), and close-up panels from Avengers #6 (July 1964), showing a Kirby goof! (bottom) Kirby returns in Strange Tales #108 (May ’63), recapping some of the Torch’s earlier antagonists. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Valeria, a possible love interest)— but the time the story was originally done. This brings up the topic of schedule, inventory, or job numbers; all three terms are used interchangeably to indicate when a story was on the schedule to be worked by the respective scripter, artist, inker, etc. Lately comic book researchers have begun to document these numbers in an effort to ascertain what story was done before another. Since Marvel comics in particular would develop such a strong continuity with time, these numbers help somewhat with the chronological timeline; with respect to the stories published in FF, this becomes interesting when documenting the Torch stories in Strange Tales. Strange

Tales #101 has a published date of Oct. ’62, placing it on the stands the same month as FF #7. The job numbers for Strange Tales #101 and FF #7 respectively are V-846 and V-895 which fit in nicely with the timeline as FF #6 is V-835; so one assumes that the first Torch story was worked between the two issues of FF. Strange Tales #103 however, has a job number of V-823, placing it not only before Strange Tales #101, but FF #6 as well. Does this mean that the Torch story in #103 was to be the first published story? One cannot be sure; this is an example of job numbers indicating that the inventory numbers might have been in sequence with scripts in the order written, but not necessarily in penciling, inking, or lettering. The story in #103 may have been the first Torch story plotted, but issue #101 was clearly scripted

as an introductory issue, so the story that became issue #103 may have been shelved for reasons yet unknown; strange! (You knew I had to work that into at least one line, didn’t you?) Issue #104 introduces Paste-Pot Pete, arguably the silliest name ever given an antagonist; even Lee and Kirby would own up to it and change it eventually. He would return as a regular Torch foe in later issues (note to “Kirby-Goof ” seekers: Pete makes an appearance in the pages of Avengers #6, but Kirby clearly draws the Wizard—a “goof,” or intentional on Jack’s part?). The Wizard returns with issue #105 and Kirby leaves the series for a while, having drawn issues #101105. Dick Ayers, who was inking Kirby on those stories, ably glides in as the artist/inker beginning with issue #106. Dick was a natural to do the Torch, having drawn the original one in the early Fifties. Ayers stated that when he drew the Torch in the Fifties, “It was just another job. In those days you were glad to have any kind of work,” said Dick. “Stan sent me some of the art to the first [Fifties] Torch story done

was brought in on otherwise standard plots. Lee was starting to try out prospective scripters at this time, bringing in Bernstein and Ernie Hart (H.E. Huntley) to start; at just about the same month throughout the four titles (April/May ’63), Lieber stops scripting the super-hero stories. Perhaps in an effort to help these writers become indoctrinated to the “Marvel method,” Lee has Jack work with them, just as he did with the “new” artists who would come in two years later. It would seem that anyone coming into Marvel after 1961 had to get a lesson from Jack. All of the four (TTA, TOS, JIM, ST) have Kirby penciling the story where Bernstein or Hart begin scripting, only for an issue or two, until they get their “legs.” The only exception is Journey Into Mystery #92, which has

by Russ Heath, and I based my Torch on that; then, unbeknownst to me, they’d have Carl Burgos do touch-ups and finishes on the Torch character, usually on the splashes.” When Dick was given the penciling chores on this new Torch, he did his usual good job, but wasn’t really fond of the character: “It always worried me that some kid might set himself on fire trying to emulate the Torch,” Dick said. As with Giant-Man and Sgt. Fury, Dick followed Kirby on the series and ended up becoming the definitive artist on the title. Issue #107 is of note because it has the Sub-Mariner battle the Torch, reminiscent of the classic battle issues between the two characters in the Forties. It is the first appearance of Namor in another title besides the FF, and the first (then) FF villain crossing over into the Torch stories; rendered by Ayers, it is an excellent example of his talent and virtuosity as an artistic everyman. Strange Tales #108 brings Kirby back for a two-issue stint as artist. The two respective stories are nice little fantasy tales, but are retreads of stories used in other, earlier books. Issue #108, “The Painter of a Thousand Perils,” uses a basic plot used by Kirby and Lee only months earlier in Tales to Astonish #31 (“It Fell From the Flying Saucer”). In the story a man finds an article (in Astonish it’s a pencil, in ST it’s paints) which, when used, can make anything drawn become real; another version of this plot was used also in Strange Tales #88 (“Zzutak”). Strange Tales #109 uses “Pandora’s Box,” which contains little demons which, when viewed, bestow their attributes on the viewer. Issue #108 also brings in Robert Bernstein as scripter and perhaps that may be why Kirby

Bernstein starting that title with Joe Sinnott as artist; but Jack drew the next story, strangely breaking the Sinnott run, so it’s entirely possible that the story in JIM #93 was done before #92. In any case, I think the point is made. If this is possibly true, then it is also a telling point on how Kirby was essential to plotting and writing as well as drawing. Ayers returned to penciling with Strange Tales #110. The story brings back the Wizard and Paste-Pot Pete in a teaming-up of the Torch’s two most colorful foes; putting these two antagonists together would be a portent of things to come for them. The book is more notable for the new back-up feature which introduces Steve Ditko’s “Dr. Strange.” Issue #111 has the first and only appearance by the Asbestos Man. (One would think that this guy would’ve been a natural as the Torch’s arch-nemesis, and I always liked the character, but what do I know? Anyway, by now he’d probably be suffering from Mesothelioma or Asbestosis.) Issues #112 and #113 introduce us to the Eel and the Plantman respectively; the interesting aspects of these two stories is that they were

(left) Dick Ayers returns to the art chores on the character he drew in the 1950s, in this excellent splash panel from Strange Tales #112 Sept. 1963). (below) Kirby panel from Strange Tales #108, with what appears to be some odd relettering of the Torch’s famous “Flame On!” © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(left) This note to inker Dick Ayers from Stan Lee (“Dick--balance will follow”) shows these Torch stories were sent to him in sections, indicating how busy Jack and Stan undoubtedly were at this time. (next page) Beautiful Kirby/Ayers page from Strange Tales #108. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(above) Splash to Strange Tales Annual #2 (1963), with Ditko inks. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

scripted by Jerry Siegel under the pseudonym of Joe Carter. Siegel had a falling-out with National (DC) at the time and was freelancing work. Lee hired him and tried to bring him into scripting Marvel style but things never worked out. The Plantman character in his first appearance is very reminiscent of a Fortiestype villain; his heavy overcoat, snap brim fedora, and scarf to cover his lower face were a refreshing change from the long-underwear types, and Ayers handled it beautifully. (By the way, if you don’t know who Jerry Siegel is, shame on you!) Issue #113 is also significant for the introduction of Doris Evans, the Torch’s first serious love interest; she will make appearances as the Torch’s steady girlfriend throughout the rest of the run. Kirby returns next for two important Torch stories: Strange Tales Annual #2 (which came out around the time of issue #112) and Strange Tales #114. They are the only two 18-page Torch stories and are both significant. In the Annual story, the Torch battles

lain in the story was a quick-change sharpie called the Fox, totally forgettable, but that’s not what was selling the story anyway. Kirby also drew the “Spider-Man Meets the Fantastic Four” back-up story for FF Annual #1 at the same time, also inked by Ditko. Strange Tales #114 has the Torch battle the Acrobat (last seen in issue #106), which wouldn’t be an event in and of itself except for the fact that the villain is dressed as Captain America. Lee uses this story to test the water as to whether Cap would sell with the new audience; he shrewdly lets the fans believe that the return of the great C.A. was up to them. Little did any fan know that they would’ve been hard-pressed to try and stop Lee from reviving the character. As with the Sub-Mariner, Lee uses one Golden Age hero to usher in another; in this case the Torch not only re-introduces us to a Cap appetizer, but Namor would do the honors on the real deal four months later in the pages of Avengers #4. According to Lee, by the way, when it was decided to bring Cap back, he was worked into the thenAvengers storyline. There was no intention to bring Cap into the Avengers from the initiation of the series; so given Lee’s proclivity to use Golden Age heroes to re-introduce one another, if the opening didn’t occur for Cap with Namor in the Avengers at that time, you might have seen him resurrected in the pages of Strange Tales for real, or the FF. Why Kirby was brought in for this particular issue needs no explanation. Strange Tales #115 begins a chapter in the series where villains from other Marvel titles begin to appear and take on the Torch; at this point new villains created for the series all but disappear. The Sandman comes in, having only first appeared in Spider-Man #4 three months earlier, with a Spider-Man cameo to help with the tie-in (the issue is more important for the origin of Dr. Strange). Issue #116 brings in the Puppet Master, and is a battle issue between the Torch and the Thing. Issue #117 returns the Eel in a standard story, and is only notable for the fact that it is the only un-reprinted ST Torch story to date. #118 brings back the Wizard in his final ST appearance; from here he would graduate to the pages of FF. ST #119 introduces the Rabble Rouser in a Communist plot—rare for the Torch series—and yet another Spidey cameo. Kirby returns as penciler for issue #120 when the Torch meets the Iceman from the X-Men; as with the Spidey story in ST Annual #2, this book showcases the two teenage heroes rather than the forgettable opponent (in this case Captain Barracuda). Ayers is credited as inker for this story, but upon his review of the art, suggests that he may have been mis-credited. Having been a longtime personal friend of Paul Reinman, Dick cites it as his work. This sounds credible as Reinman was the regular inker of X-Men at this time (ST #120 came out the

Spider-Man, who was then fast becoming the darling of the Marvel roster of stars. This book came out around the time of Spider-Man #4 and was obviously designed to not only give the Spider-Man character more exposure, but to cross-market him with the Torch’s audience, since both characters What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your were teenagers. This is the first favorite and why? long-term rendering of the That’s sort of a toss-up between “This Man, Spider-Man character by This Monster” and The Galactus Trilogy. Kirby (having only drawn They’re terrific stories; probably the best him on two covers previreason for choosing your favorites. ously) and Lee wisely has Steve Ditko ink the How would you say the Lee/Kirby story, making sure issues influenced your work on the FF? Spider-Man looked con(Writer of Fantastic Four #155-157, That’s one of those questions that you sistent throughout; prob184-188, 191-194, can answer by saying that the Lee-Kirby ably one of the few times Giant-Size #4) run of Fantastic Four inspired everybody someone was brought in to who followed them. Everything I did was a help a story Jack drew instead reaction to what they had done. of the other way around. The vil-

4 LEN WEIN

(left) Captain America (sort of) returns in Strange Tales #114 (Nov. 1963). Ayers inks. (below) Bob Powell leaves margin notes in ST #130 like he did on his Astonish GiantMan work. Inks by Chic Stone. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

same month as X-Men #5), but there are aspects of the art that reflect Ayers too, so perhaps they both had a hand in it. This is the last Torch story Kirby would pencil for Strange Tales. Lee and Ayers settle in as the regular team on the Torch stories, and with issue #121 the Plantman returns in a new costume. Issue #122 brings in the Terrible Trio from the pages of FF #23 (they would come back again in issue #129). Issue #123 is notable for the first appearance of the Beetle (the last new villain worth mentioning in the series); the story is drawn by Carl Burgos and inked by Ayers—thereby uniting the two artists who drew the character in the Forties and Fifties respectively—and the Thing joins the Torch as a regular in the series. Apparently sales were slowing with the title and the Thing’s fan popularity was higher than the Torch’s, so why not? Paste-Pot Pete makes his final ST appearance in issue #124; he would go on to join the Sandman and the Wizard in forming the Frightful Four in FF #36 and finally change his name to the Trapster. Sub-Mariner guest-stars in issue #125 for a slobbernocker; issue #126 has the Thinker and the Puppet Master. #127 has a Mystery Villain whom I won’t reveal in case you haven’t read the story. Issue #128 has a great battle involving Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch (taking place around the time of XMen #9). Issue #130 brings in the Beatles and Bob Powell as the regular artist. By this time the writing was on the wall for the series and Goodman was urging Lee for a new feature so, as with his turn in Astonish, Powell finished out the run drawing the last five issues. Issue #134 would be the final Torch 22

story, involving Kang the Conqueror; it was inked by Wally Wood. Now as to those “other” FF stories I was referring to: If you haven’t read this series, I’d advise you do, for you might be pleasantly surprised. Throughout almost the entire run you have FF cameos, appearances, and involvement by the other members of the group. It’s far easier to cite the issues where the Torch is completely solo

(with respect to the other FF members) then the other way around. Issues #106 and #118 could almost qualify as FF stories, and the covers to #106, #108, #116 and #118 could pass for better FF covers than the ones run in the regular series at

that time. You also have the three major members of the early FF creative team always working on the Torch stories: Ayers, Kirby, and Lee, at one time or another. The Invisible Girl seems to have more active involvement in these stories than in the pages of FF, and later on, when the Thing becomes a regular, he makes the book even more of a FF tie-in series. So go over these stories and enjoy the escapism one more time; it’s not exactly those Kirby/Lee FFs, but it may be as close as you’ll ever get; and if you’ve never read them before, I envy you! ★

Retrospective

The (UN-?) Forgettable FF 15 Lumpy Grey Androids, Monkeys With Matches, and Crystal Baxter Buildings: These Are A Few Of My Favorite Things, by Glen Gold

or those of you who grew up in the late ’60s and early ’70s, the Fantastic Four was just young enough that you could read the current issue (the first one I read was #150), and then find the back issues you needed to explain what the heck was going on. I recall finding issues from the #140s and #130s and feeling like I was slowly unraveling a story that I wouldn’t know all the ramifications of until I finally read my way back to #1. This was the brilliance of continuity and cross-overs; The House of Ideas made sure that kids like me needed to buy everything they’d ever put out so we could follow huge multi-generational stories. This was how I found out that the Hulk, whom I loved, was once grey (as was Iron Man), the Avengers didn’t always have the Vision as a member, and, most importantly, the Fantastic Four used to have a different flavor entirely. The ’70s were a time of socially relevant stories— Reed and Sue almost divorce; Harry Osborne trips on acid; Howard the Duck runs for President. It was a shock to see that in the early ’60s, the Fantastic Four had a lot of fun with their powers, and it was obvious that the people who created them had fun, too. Fantastic Four #15 is a benchmark of loony storytelling; I imagine Stan and Jack plotting it at 3:00 in the morning. For those of you who haven’t had the pleasure: Our tale begins in the evening—Johnny Storm has taken “Peggy” to a “quiet lane in Central Park” to neck under the “moon above.” Unfortunately, Mr. Fantastic signals with the flaregun, interrupting the date. (And, by the way, the moment he reveals this, it’s “exactly 12:42 PM”; apparently Johnny’s date went really well.) Mister Fantastic has also interrupted an experiment, something like the spontaneous generation of goldfish in a

(this page and throughout) Scenes from Fantastic Four #15 (June 1963). Inks by Dick Ayers. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Chanel perfume atomizer, because the police department reports that “top mobsters” are flocking to New York. Granted, the illustration is of a car driving away from NYC, but those mobsters are tricky, especially the top ones. They’re doing the bidding of the Mad Thinker! His insane plan is... to proclaim New York an independent state! Fiendishly, he adds, “I shall even appoint ambassadors to other American cities! I will sign treaties with the rest of America and negotiate trade and foreign-aid pacts!” Huh... that’s it? No murder, or theft, or... well, okay. Perhaps this pre-NAFTA, states-rights, Republican-to-the-Max plan lacks some of the panache that, say, Galactus’ plans had, but hey, Galactus didn’t have the Thinker’s “greatest array of thinking machines ever assembled,” with big disks labeled “weather,” “wind velocity,” “tidal pull” and “sun spots.” Woe to the adversary who’s relying on the Farmer’s Almanac. At this point, the story goes from silly to positively giddy. The Thinker tells the gangs about a million dollar heist which succeeded because “I knew a hot dog vender [sic] would pass by at just the right split-second,” and, better yet, “it was part of my plan to know that an organ grinder’s monkey would accidentally start a fire in a deserted shack, thereby burning some valuable papers which contained enough evidence to send me to jail for years!” A lovely touch is that before, during, and after this account, the Thinker is striking Rodin’s “The Thinker” pose. (Though if Rodin believed his Thinker was thinking about an organ grinder’s monkey, I’ll eat my fedora.) The Thinker won’t trust a mere circus animal to defeat the Fantastic Four. Instead, he entrusts the circus itself! Yes, Johnny Storm’s “cousin Bones” shows up, a lanky man in a Curious George-man-with-the-yellow-hat hat, offering Johnny a job with the circus. Never mind that we’ve never heard of cousin Bones before, and will never hear of him again, or that if Johnny’s his cousin, so is Sue, and Bones doesn’t give Sue the time of day (hey, invisible juggling and lion taming would be cool). Johnny, never the most reliable member of the FF, decides to leave town and join the “Bones and Bailey” circus. Nothing so frivolous could get Reed out of the way. General Electronics, Ltd. needs a scientific genius to head their research division, and they find him the way most highlevel recruitment is done. That’s right, a careless janitor leaves a comic book on a desk and Cartright, Van Dorn, and Roger realize Mister Fantastic is the man for the job. (Note to 23

self: General Electronics IPO? I’m glad I missed it.) The Thing is much easier meat—hanging out at a local gym, he’s offered a chance to wrestle Fatal Finnegan, idol of the Yancy Street Gang, and before you can say “riverrun past eves and adams,” he’s punched out a wall, and hung Fatal’s manager on a hook. The Invisible Girl is located playing for no discernable reason with children at a local orphanage, where a man running auditions declares her perfect to star in his new Broadway show. Broadway. Remember that, Sue: B-R-O-A-D-W-A-Y. It takes all of a page for the FF to decide to separate, during which Jack indulges in some bizarre drawing—their headquarters is apparently decorated with busts of Caesar (which the Torch puts a flaming Napoleonic hat on top of ) and statues not unlike the MTV awards. Anyway, they leave at 16:03:00 (just as the Thinker predicted! Scary!) and at 16:03:15, a hurtling meteor plunges into New York’s lower bay, knocking out all electrical power, leading to “numerous small fires and explosions.” One of those helpful Kirby on-lookers is scripted as saying, “Look! All the street lights have gone out—and there are flames in Central Park!” Now, given that the FF left their headquarters only fifteen seconds ago, you’d think they might be, oh, standing in the foyer, alert to the meteorite that disabled the entire blamed city. But no, the building is already deserted, the FF apparently elect not to pay much attention to the mayhem (hey, they’re on vacation), and the Thinker is free to plunder Reed’s laboratories. Okay. Three days later, the Torch is performing in the circus. Sue is in a movie (“Okay, Miss Storm, this is the final take! Remember, you’re the first female in space, lost on an unknown planet! Roll ’em! More SCHMALTZ, baby! Give it more EMOTION! C’mon—look SCARED!”), proving she’s even more of a dingbat than we knew, since she was supposed to be in a Broadway play. Reed is wrapped up in his work (literally stretching through machinery, and, in a disturbing monologue, reveals, “I like to examine my apparatus from the INSIDE”); and the Thing is in a fixed wrestling match. When Finnegan hits on Alicia, Ben wraps him in a “Do Not Open Till X-mas” sign and, in Finnegan’s wake, elects to return to the Baxter Building—which has, in the FF’s absence, turned into a gigantic crystal. Huh?

Oh, don’t worry, I’m sure that will be explained. But first, we learn that the Thinker has also used a hypno-ray so that passers-by (except the FF) don’t notice it. (Actually, having spent time with New Yorkers, I’d say none of them gave a hoot—“giant crystal building, gotta be some Trump thing, ehhhh.”) He lets the FF in, but turns their own weapons against them, proving once and for all that Doctor Doom is a second-rate, non-innovative villain. (next page) The original art First, there’s the vibra-guns, then gas that “affects your sense of to FF #15, page 3, vs. the balance—and of vision”; then and only then, the Awesome Android. published art. Kirby pencils A word here about the Awesome Android. Even when I was a are still there under the I knew it wasn’t that awesome. Its awesome power: Mimicry! kid, pasted-up inked panels, On the playground that could at least get another kid to cry, but showing a more “chiseled” it’s used here to become like the Thing. The Awesome Android Thing was taking shape doesn’t flame on, and he doesn’t stretch or turn invisible (I think than the soft Ayers inks would indicate. the Thinker skimped when stealing the plans from Reed). And © Marvel Characters, Inc. the design—like the third runner-up in a Kruschev-era android design contest! Grey, lumpy, lumbering, it has a head like a stick of butter, and purple Fin Fang Foom shorts. Sue turns invisible and finds the Android’s “motor nerve terminal,” leading Reed to say “You DID it, Sue! Your sensitive touch knocked out the android,” which I suspect he whispered in her ear again hours later, when they were alone. So, with just over a page left, the Thinker is about to wipe out the FF with anti-matter shells (and a separate chemical gun on the Torch, just for the hell of it), when everything goes “Bzzzz Zzzt!” The Thinker is defeated! But how? As Reed says, “You overlooked ONE thing in your plans, THINKER! There is always an X-FACTOR to prepare for—the UNEXPECTED! Not knowing what we’d find when we invaded our building, I contacted Mr. Lumpkin, our postman, and told him to ring a special downstairs bell at exactly four o’clock.” Thanks, Reed. So— “I had previously set up an electrical circuit breaker which rendered all my equipment useless when that bell is rung.” Great, Reed. That explains it. So— “—As a precaution against any enemy taking over my lab.” This causes Ben to say, “BAH! You talked so much that I got over my anger!” Reed ends by saying it’s four minutes after 4:00 (if you look closely, you What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? can see someone reI think it would probably be the introduction of The Inhumans. There’s just something that I enjoyed about The lettered this part, which Inhumans and that was early Kirby with Joe Sinnott. I think that was one of Joe Sinnott’s best inking phases suggests that Stan screwed on Kirby so I think that definitely has to rank up there. Although there are others that I enjoyed that are not up the continuity) and getting proper attention because I only have to name one. The second you asked the question I just with the Thinker led thought of the cover and The Inhumans’ introduction. away in handcuffs (oh, and he’s tied up with How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? ropes, too—when you’re The entire sense of super-hero dynamics was definitely taken from Lee and Kirby. In the case of the the Mad Thinker, there’s Fantastic Four, some of the best supporting characters in the Marvel Universe were introduced in that (Artist on Fantastic Four #164-167, no such thing as too book, from Dr. Doom to Galactus to Silver Surfer. It was a surprise every time you turned the page when 170-172, 176-178, 184-188, those two guys were working in their prime. It was part of my DNA. I was so influenced by that book; with much precaution), the FF 191-192) the exception of minor costuming details, it didn’t even require me to do referencing with the pages in front is free and the menace is of me. I was pretty much able to do it on my own, but that was because of a lot of years of referencing. Little over, and no one mentions did I realize how much my initial reading of the comics would be part of my learning experience in comics. that their building is still

4 GEORGE PéREZ

made out of crystal, and New York is still recovering from a meteor strike, but that’s okay. The End. There are other delights in this issue—a nice pin-up of the Foursome, a letters page with a really pushy letter from some squirt named Roy Thomas, a few spot illos that look like Brodsky aping Kirby—but I want to talk for a minute about page three of the book, a simple page. I’ve always loved the feeling behind it—the Invisible Girl turning invisible because... uh... because... well, who knows? And ‘The Thing is a Sissy’ panel (as Richard Howell points out, “Hey, the Yancy Street Gang draws just like Jack Kirby!”). And the tractor-over-the-head defense against cabbages and noise-makers. And how the Torch, even when he’s just standing around indoors, is aflame. But what amazed me when I saw the art in person is that it gave up some unexpected secrets. In the second-to-last panel, there are heavily-erased pencils showing a crowd fleeing the Thing. Normally I’d frown on that kind of alteration, but I think it was a good call in this case—it would have made for a busy panel on an already-busy page. More importantly, two of the panels are paste-ups, over pencil art! It looks like Kirby originally had the Thing looking towards the rooftop in the center panel of the middle tier, and he would be called away from his tractor in the last panel before he got a chance to pick it up. The change is for the better. What

a nice shot to have, in action, instead of him simply looking for trouble. Under the final panel, wherein the FF meet up again, there is something spectacular: A full face shot of the Thing, fist raised, mouth agape, frustrated and ready for action. Besides the small spot illo for Alter Ego (reproduced in TJKC #9), this page contains to my knowledge the earliest surviving pencil versions of the Thing. And he’s rocky. Ayers was giving him rounded scales, still, but he’s definitely a pile of rocks, with shadows and high contrast on his plates. Seeing this, it’s hard to figure out which inker best captured the way Kirby was actually drawing Ben then. He looks in fact the way no one ever inked him (weirdly, whatever else his shortcomings as an inker, Bell/Roussos seems to have come close in his first couple of FF books). I’ve always thought the Thing was one of Jack’s bravura creations. Who else would put together a character made up of bricks that had to be drawn in every darned panel (trying to draw the Thing when I was a kid is what convinced me to stay away from art as a living). Seeing this page has increased my appreciation for the whole nutty story of FF #15 all over again. I can imagine Kirby at the board, with a cigar, drawing it out and laughing. It reminds me how, before it was Saturday morning cartoons, and video games, and billions of dollars, it was just a couple of guys in an office, trying to entertain themselves. I hope somewhere, in some office, someone is still doing that. ★

Here are pages 19 and 20 of FF #44 (Nov. 1965), in their original pencil form. Joe Sinnott took over inking with this issue. Notice Sol Brodsky’s note to Jack on page 19 (“Jack! Compare This With Next Page!”), in reference to an edit Stan is requesting (see chopped-off notes at bottom of page). It appears to have something to do with why panels 3 and 4 on page 20 were reworked from these original pencils, but we’re unsure why Stan requested the art change. Ideas, anyone? Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Gallery

28 Here are pages 2 and 3 of FF #76 (July 1968), still in pencil. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

30 Page 4 of FF #76 (July 1968). Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Page 3 of FF #78 (Sept. 1968). Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(next ten pages) Kirby’s pencils from assorted pages of FF Annual #5 (Nov. 1967). Although Joe Sinnott is listed in the credits as inker, it was obviously inked by Frank Giacoia. The Kirby family recently discovered these yellowed photocopies in the bottom of a box, and Mike Thibodeaux immediately sent them to us for use in TJKC. Our thanks for their continued support! Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

42 (next six pages) Kirby’s uninked pencils to FF #89 (August 1969). Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

48 (this spread) FF #91 (Oct. 1969), page 6 and #95 (Feb. 1970), page 6.

(this spread) Kirby’s cover pencils to (l to r, top to bottom) FF #164 (Nov. 1975), #173 (Aug. 1976), #176 (Nov. 1976), & #177 (Dec. 1976). Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Adam M c Govern Know of some Kirby-inspired work that should be covered here? Send to: Adam McGovern PO Box 257 Mt. Tabor, NJ 07878

As A Genre A regular feature examining Kirby-inspired work, by Adam McGovern

GREAT RE-CREATIONS Erik Larsen & A Few Hundred Close Friends Rekindle The Lee/Kirby Golden Years his column has been covering the Kirby influence dispersed throughout the comics field; at the dawn of 2001 the Kirby genre reached critical mass as his disciples came together in the most ambitious tribute yet. Fantastic Four: The World’s Greatest Comics Magazine is a year-long revisitation of the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby heyday of that definitive Marvel book on the occasion of its 40th anniversary. Set in the late 1960s between issue #100 and #101 of the original Fantastic Four title, WGCM gives the Lee-Kirby team the grand, frothy send-off it didn’t have in real life as the relationship deteriorated rapidly and Kirby jumped companies by issue #102. The book is masterminded by fan-favorite writer-artist Erik Larsen, who plots each story with Eric Stephenson and lays out every issue while a who’s who of collaborators writes and draws the episodes—one scripter per month but a different pencil-and-ink team every few pages, for a pop-art crazy quilt of artists channeling Kirby’s four-color psychedelia and writers reliving Lee’s consciousness-expanding patois. The roster is a great generational jam-session convening present-day luminaries like Bruce Timm, Jeph Loeb and Kurt Busiek (and frequently Larsen himself), with giants from Marvel’s classic ’60s and ’70s like Joe Sinnott and Keith Giffen, and household-names-tobe from the indie leagues like Tom Scioli (though the whole honor guard goes under a splash page Lee/Kirby alias, with a gotcha-inducing roll call at the end). The loving detail extends right to the background tone of yellowed newsprint on the period-correct letters page. And the Kirby homage is deep and wide—observant (not to mention really, really obsessive) fans of the King will even notice the unidentified time-traveling cameo in issue #5 from the “Cosmic-Powered Hulk” (an android doppleganger for the Grade—a greenskin which was Kirby’s infamous way of conceding to reader demand for Marvel-character crossovers in his better-stood-alone later series The Eternals). Keepin’ the whole blamed spaceship on course is Erik Larsen. Praised in a recent edition of this column for the almost-perfect melding of his and the King’s style on a special Thor issue, when crossing over to Kirby’s style entirely Larsen is freed to do a thoroughlyperfect recreation, paradoxically as fresh as it is faithful. Seldom if ever have both the look and underlying essence of High Kirby been captured at once, this successfully; we’re talking heart, not shell. As the book’s grand finale looms, Larsen shared some observations with TJKC from his front-row seat at the Kirby second coming.

(above) Larsen/Sinnott cover to World’s Greatest Comics Magazine #5 (June 2001). © Marvel Characters, Inc. (center) To keep the book looking as consistent and Kirbyesque as possible when dealing with different artists, Erik Larsen provided layouts like this one from issue #9 (Oct. 2001, shown opposite the printed page by penciler Paul Ryan and inker Al Gordon). © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(far right) Kirby’s cover pencils to Marvel Two-InOne #27 (May 1977). Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: What’s it been like getting to work with some of the legends who’ve come back to contribute to this book—and how many of them have you actually gotten to meet? ERIK LARSEN: Almost everything has been coordinated through Marvel, but I’ve met most of the folks who’ve worked on the book at some point or other. The only big exception is [definitive FF-era Kirby inker] Joe Sinnott, whom I’ve never met, but I’m extremely grateful that he has been able to contribute as much as he has. Getting to have him ink pages over my pencils was a real thrill. TJKC: Speaking of more recent legends, Bruce Timm has been heavily involved, even though his too-modest opinion of his work on Avengers 1 1⁄ 2 made him vow not to attempt Kirby again. How did you lure him back? ERIK: It wasn’t hard—he’s as big a Kirby buff as they get! Trying to pencil dead-on Jack was giving him grief so he opted to ink stuff in every issue and help make folks’ work look more like Kirby/Sinnott. He’s really put a lot of work into this stuff and I think he’s done a great job. TJKC: You handle all the book’s layouts, and this is certainly one of the most dynamically and resourcefully composed comics in recent memory. Was it a challenge to channel Kirby’s design sense like that, or is it a natural power you temper in your other books and were able to cut loose with here?

ERIK: The thing about Jack is that, other than a few repeated patterns like big close-ups that he’d typically crop a certain way, there are no regular patterns to his work! Even anatomy stuff changes from page to page and panel to panel! Jack didn’t fall into the trap of repeating the same positions over and over, so I tend to just try and think dynamic and straightforward and hope for the best. I’m not sitting here with a mess of books open—generally I’ll look at a string of issues and then put them away. The thing is, it would be easy to just sit here and swipe poses but that’s not what Jack would do, and as much as possible I’ve tried to do it as Jack would. TJKC: Related to that last question, Marie Severin has proudly stated that Kirby almost never changed any cover layout she designed for him, and says she just tried to figure out how he thinks. You’ve been giving that feeling too. How does one go about thinking like the King? ERIK: Jack’s primary goal is to tell the story in a clear fashion; he may dress things up quite a bit but the essence of it is to tell the story well. Jack’s way of cutting corners—and if there ever was an oxymoron, that’s it—was to keep the characters moving from one location to another. Jack wasn’t big on referencing a specific room and keeping it consistent. He’d draw a different kitchen every time it appeared; draw a different lab; draw a different city. Going back and researching what he drew something like before would only slow Jack down, so he tended to blaze ahead rather than dwell on what he’d done in the past. Jack was concerned with the details but not the specific details—Galactus would always have the same silhouette but not necessarily the same costume. Generally I’ve tried, then, to do much the same—have the characters keep on the move. Vary the camera angles as much as possible while picking the shots that best tell the story. It’s a challenge, to be sure. TJKC: In addition to the big names of past and present who’ve jumped at the chance to work on this book, WGCM has given a spotlight to a number of emerging talents. Is it important for you to give a leg up to the next wave of creators like that, and

how did you assemble your team—by putting out a general “casting call” or just getting in touch with up-and-comers you’d admired? ERIK: My primary goal was to find guys who can pull What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four it off. New guys are less likely to have settled is your favorite and why? into a rut and are more able to be Jack Kirby. Despite all the brilliant work that The problem a lot of people have, myself came after, FF #5 will always be included, is that we’ve developed our own my favorite. Apart from being visual shorthand to solve problems and the first one I read, it was a it’s tough to shake that and do things a time travel story—always a different way. Jack often did fairly bizarre personal favorite! things to the human figure in problemsolving, and it’s tough to sit there and How would you say the intentionally draw something that looks (Writer and Artist on Fantastic Four Lee/Kirby issues influenced wrong to you in order to make it look like #209-218, 220-221, 232-294, your work on the FF? somebody else. There can also be a tendency Annual #13, 17-19) The latter could not exist without to compound the problem by adding another the former. That is the only way to artists’ shortcomings to your own, you know? It’s say it. like, geez, now the knees are big and round and the

4 JOHN BYRNE

drawings have no power! There have been a few guys who’ve tried out and not made the book; there have been a few real clinkers in here as well that [weren’t] back for more. But ultimately, the goal here has been to do the best we can at pulling off Stan and Jack no matter who we get to do it. (right) Frank Fosco pencils, and the final Bruce Timminked art from page 9 of WGCM #6 (July 2001). © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(far right) More Larsen layouts, for WGCM #9 (Oct. 2001), page 6, and the final art by Fosco and Timm. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(below) Kirbyesque detail from Erik Larsen’s Savage Dragon. © Erik Larsen.

TJKC: Has it been a challenge weaving together so many different hands, or has the armature of your layouts and, say, Timm’s frequent inks kept things under control—or at least as under control as you’d want them to be? ERIK: It’s been a challenge, yes, and there have been quite a few screwups along the way, but luckily Jack was pretty inconsistent as well at times, so it’s not been as noticeable. I’ve tried to make there be as few reference nightmares as possible along the way—to keep, for instance, only a given Doom-ship present in one section or to have Odin climb into fighting togs so that his change in clothes is at least addressed in some way. We’ve done what we can to minimize the potential headaches and continuity glitches. TJKC: We’ve seen more than one Kirby emulated in this book—for instance, it was a stroke of comedic genius to see Frenz and Ryan do issue #3’s X-Men sequences in the lessglitzy, breakdowns-only style Kirby had last used on those characters. Did you give stylistic suggestions to any of the artists, or have they just been surprising you with these variations? ERIK: There have been a few happy coincidences on that account but I’ve tried to keep it as much as possible looking like Kirby/Sinnott. I’ve suggested a ton of guys and there have been ones who’ve worked out great and a few who haven’t worked out quite so well. TJKC: Was there anyone you weren’t able to get for the book that you would have wished to?

(bottom and center) These Savage Dragon covers are very reminiscent of ones from Kamandi #12 and #21, respectively. (He’s even got Jimmy Olsen’s Yango riding Kamandi’s Kliklak!) © Erik Larsen.

ERIK: Yeah—the big one being Jack Kirby. Early on I had been in touch with the Kirby Estate about getting the rights to a few rejected Kirby pieces that could be used in the books, but as much as I tried to convince them that this would be a book that celebrated both Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, and that Jack’s credit would be every bit as prominent as Stan’s, they simply would not cooperate in any way. The only satisfaction I can get is knowing that we did do everything we said we would in terms of giving Jack his due on the book, and I think he’d have been pleased with the results. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby have both had a prominent credit in all of the books and Jack’s importance has been acknowledged at every turn, so I feel we really did do right by Jack. He got the credit he deserved. I just wish those in charge at the estate could have seen that beforehand—I would have loved to have had Jack’s alternate cover to FF #64 be the cover to WGCM #2 or to have used an Odin splash in #10 or the Spider-Man being chased by Sentinels poster as a splash in #3. The first few issues were actually written around certain images that I thought we’d be able to use, but it just didn’t work out. I don’t know if somebody at Marvel couldn’t swing the deal or [if it was] somebody at the Kirby Estate, but the end result is that fans who might have been exposed to Jack’s actual work in this series weren’t, and that’s a shame. Other than that, there have been a few creators who couldn’t fit it into their schedule, or were unwilling to pay tribute to Stan and Jack for whatever political reasons that they built up in their minds. It’s been hit and miss. TJKC: We’ve seen Earth X honor Marvel’s 1960s stars and then Universe X honor its ’70s ones; would you move ahead and round up 40 John Buscema clones for a WGCM sequel, or would you just go back to Kirby for an issue #100-and-two-thirds? ERIK: I wouldn’t mind dipping into the Kirby pool again, but this one was a bit unwieldy as it ended up. If I was to tackle something along these lines again I wouldn’t want to do any more than, say, six issues at a shot. Twelve issues and a gazillion creators was just too much to deal with. As far as doing a tribute book to Stan and John Buscema—I’d have to pass on that. As wonderful as I think John’s work is, he can never be the co-creator of the Fantastic Four or the influence on my life that Jack Kirby was and is. Somebody else can spearhead that one!

DEFENDER OF THE FAITH The Dragon-Man Reflects on Marvels Past and Present Since his star at Marvel Comics rose high enough to break away into a whole ’nother universe with the co-founding of formidable indie Image Comics in the early ’90s, Erik Larsen has been best known for Savage Dragon, his slam-bang serial about a gruff but decent crimefighting everyman—well, every man with green skin and a fin on his head—that’s hit big enough with fans to remain one of Image’s few titles to be continuously published since the company’s start. Larsen recently returned to the Marvel fold while continuing his Dragon duties, collaborating with fellow mainstream juggernaut Kurt Busiek on a must-read revival of offbeat anti-team the Defenders. After sitting down to discuss WGCM in this issue’s “Kirby As a Genre” column, Erik agreed to stay on and talk us through some other important points in his past, present and future. 54

TJKC: There may be no character in comics history who’s done as many crossovers with other people’s books—and even rival companies—as the Dragon. What do you feel is his widespread appeal? ERIK: Conceptually he’s very straightforward and that makes it easy for people to be able to grasp. He’s a green-skinned cop fighting to do what’s right, and that’s far easier to “get” than a lot of characters these days with their convoluted origins and complex assortment of super-powers. This is the Kirby in me taking over—the powers themselves are not as important as the characters. To me, it’s all about the character, and I think [the reason] people respond [so] well to the Dragon is that they like him as a character—the “star” of the book is Savage Dragon’s personality and how he deals with the problems he’s faced with. TJKC: Is part of it also that you have an uncommonly open-door attitude toward your fellow creators? ERIK: Well, that too. I generally feel that as an owner of Image Comics it’s in my best interest for the books published here to succeed, and if I can help make that happen by loaning out my toys then I’m all for that—plus, I just enjoy seeing what other people do with my characters. Savage Dragon is a celebration of super-hero comics and everything that makes them the wonderful things that they can be, and I openly embrace not only the widest possible spectrum of characters and concepts that I can come up with, but those from other creators as well. Cross-promotion is good for everybody, and it gets characters in front of readers who [otherwise] might not run across them. I’ve had many readers thank me for exposing them to [fellow Kirby fan and indie MVP Mike Mignola’s] Hellboy, for instance, and that’s a really satisfying thing for me. I got to do a story guest-starring Hellboy, I had a gas doing it, [and] now readers are being turned on to a high-quality super-hero comic from another publisher—everybody wins!

but it’s important that we keep these characters as the icons they were created to be rather than make changes for the sake of change. In Savage Dragon I’m playing it a lot more loose; the Dragon is an everyman who is trying to do the right thing. Right now [he’s] trying to fix the world, which has been taken over by a tyrannical dictator. When I conceived the character the idea was not that he’d stay a policeman forever but that being a policeman was the first step toward something bigger. Kirby had many different periods in his career. When Fantastic Four started out it was set in something close to “real time,” with characters’ lives progressing at a nearly normal pace. Reed and Sue got married, Sue got pregnant, Reed and Sue had a baby and so on. Of course we all know that after Jack left, the FF’s lives ground to a halt. Often, I’ve talked with folks about the idea of setting a super-hero universe in “real time” and watching the characters grow and change, and while this idea would be suicidal in a company like Marvel Comics where they’ve got icons to maintain as icons and licensing concerns, in Savage Dragon I can pull it off. The thing is, I can count on myself to create new characters to replace any that I might bump off. At one of the big companies, who can they count on to create the next Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man or Hulk? Who’s even given us an Electro or Paste-Pot Pete in the last few years? It’s really tough for them to entice creators to give them new icons when modern creators can see the way previous creators were treated. What did Jack get out of creating the Fantastic Four and Hulk other than work for a few years? What did he get to leave his family? In any case, I’m trying to do a book where characters grow and age and I’m finding out the many limitations of doing that in addition to the many benefits.

TJKC: More than most comics Dragon gives the feeling that it’s unfolding in real time like a movie, as if it’s materializing on the pages as you turn them, and the plot twists are surprising the writer as much as the reader. Kirby also gave this feeling of the story spilling right out of his brain onto the paper; is that a technique you’ve consciously set out to capture? ERIK: Absolutely. Writers often get very hung up on their plots and having all of the loose ends dovetail into each other in a precise and satisfying way, and that’s fine, but often as a reader you get so used to the structure of stories that you can see the end coming from a mile away, and that climax that was intended to give you a punch in the gut fails to connect. Generally, on Savage Dragon I’m going for a more natural approach—I’m not as concerned with making all the pieces fit as I am in telling a story which is true to the characters and to the situation. In real life, you can meet a person one day and never see them again; every instance in your life doesn’t necessarily “further the plot,” and I’m trying to do a book that’s more character-driven than plot-driven. TJKC: The Defenders is the quintessential no-rules comic, and I can see why you’d choose it from some of the drastic changes you’ve made to the Dragon’s life and world. Do you think irreversible change is good for a comic’s vitality, and do you think there’s enough of that kind of risk these days?

TJKC: Humor’s always been an essential ingredient in your books, even when the story is serious and the market demanded gloom ’n’ doom. Clearly many readers agree with your choice. What’s the importance to you of not taking any character— or creator—too seriously? ERIK: I don’t set out to do “funny” books per se; the characters themselves must stay in character at all times. The humor, for me, comes from the characters and [the fact] that humor can make a situation more dire—if the world is in danger but the Hulk is so focused on kicking Subby’s ass rather than the bad guy’s, that can be funny and dire at the same time. In The Defenders where the humor comes from is the characters being the characters; Hulk being less than bright; Doc being aloof, standoffish and controlling; Subby being proud and arrogant. The personality clashes can be pretty funny at times. I think humor is important but I also think that it can be overused. If it’s always “on” it can lose its punch. TJKC: The Defenders book seems like both the ultimate tribute to classic Marvel and the ultimate send-up of it. Did the brass give you and Kurt any trouble about trying this, or did they just say go for it? ERIK: It was pretty smooth sailing. ★ What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? “This Man, This Monster” which was FF #51. If I had to choose a single issue, that would be it, because it encapsulated much of the FF for me in a single issue—for instance: The family elements that bound the FF and separated it from many other super-hero comics; the complex relationship between Reed, Ben, and Sue; Reed’s guilt at Ben’s plight; a snapshot of the Ben/Alicia relationship; a villain who in the end was more than a simple agenda; and a tremendously entertaining story.

ERIK: That’s a sticky one because I think for the most part that irreversible change is bad for mainstream super-hero comics. Take Daredevil— great comic, at times. Frank Miller wrote a swell story called “Born Again” and in it, he turned Daredevil’s real identity Matt Murdock from How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? being a lawyer to a short-order chef. Was it It set a very high goal to strive for, and established core relationships that could (Writer/Artist of Fantastic Four #334-335, great? Yeah! Was it memorable? Yeah! Would I be explored in a variety of ways. By the time I was doing the book, some of 337-350, 352-354, Annual #23) want to do adventures of Matt Murdock, Shortthose relationships had altered but the essential unity of the FF as family remained Order Chef? Not at all! I think that with Savage and played an important part in my storylines. And of course, nothing says ‘cosmic’ Dragon and The Defenders we’re talking about two better than the FF. very different books and the rules are not the same. Yeah, there can be changes made in The Defenders as time goes by,

WALTER SIMONSON

Last Line of Defense by Adam McGovern As this issue went to press, it had just been learned that Erik Larsen was leaving The Defenders after its twelfth issue. No doubt he’ll be leaving on a high note—that issue will coincide with Marvel’s company-wide month of wordless stories in December, and for all his tendon-pulling dynamism, some of Erik’s most talked-about moments in The Defenders have been the silent haughty looks and undialogued double-takes of his fractious cast. But it will be a crushing loss to one of Marvel’s freshest books in years. We checked in on Erik to find out what happened and what’s next. THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Whose idea was it for you to leave the book, and how do relationships stand with the company and your co-creators? ERIK LARSEN: I decided to leave. While it was a fun book to work on, I’ve not fully recovered from the [pneumonia] that I suffered earlier this year and I just couldn’t hack it. A lingering side effect has been numb hands and that’s made prolonged typing and drawing more difficult. I need time to heal, [and] at this time I’m just not able to do everything at the level in which I want to do it. There have been some really positive things that have come about from doing The Defenders. I’ve gotten to work with [co-writers] Kurt Busiek [and] Eric Stephenson, [guest artist] Ron Frenz, superstar inkers Klaus Janson, Al Gordon and Sal Buscema. I’ve gotten to work once more with colorist Greg Wright and my Savage Dragon letterer Chris Eliopoulos and they’re always good company. The thing is, this really didn’t turn out to be the book I wanted it to be. While I enjoy what Kurt does a great deal, I didn’t think the two of us meshed as well as I’d have liked. I thought [the book] was pretty entertaining, but Kurt has his way of doing things [and] I have mine, and I think to some extent neither of us really got to do what we do best. From my standpoint, it wasn’t as good as an Erik Larsen comic book or a Kurt Busiek comic book and I found that frustrating. In the end, however, my health was [what] swayed my decision, and it was not one I made easily. I’m not a guy who leaves a title lightly—generally I’m dragged off kicking and screaming (and I’m only too willing to tell folks when that’s the case). But this time I left on my own, confident that Kurt would build a damned fine house on the foundation we poured. I’m pleased with how both The Defenders and Fantastic Four: The World’s Greatest Comics Magazine came together. My relationship with the editor, Tom Brevoort, remains good. My relationship with Kurt Busiek is terrific. Kurt’s had his share of health-related problems and he certainly understood why I had to make the decision that I did. My relationship with Marvel remains good, and now that my monthly commitment to them is over I can finally get started on that crossover book for them that features Savage Dragon and—uh, okay, okay, not supposed to talk about that one just yet. [Laughs] TJKC: What are your other plans for the future, at Marvel, Image and elsewhere?

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? The favorite issue is one I remember vividly as a kid, and for the life of me cannot remember the issue’s title or the villain’s name. Just the story, which fried my brain as a kid. It was the issue with the evil scientist who controlled the three different simians, the gorilla, the orangutan, and the other ape. I remember how great I thought it was (Artist on Fantastic Four #222-231) as a kid. If you know the one I’m talking about, then please let me know, as well. I’m embarrassed to say I can’t remember...

BILL SIENKIEWICZ 56

LARSEN: My biggest priority, at this point, is getting Savage Dragon back on schedule. With my other monthly commitments wrapped up I’ll be able to get [it] back on track. In the next year I’ve got several big projects: I’m contributing to Image’s big Tenth Anniversary project, a hardcover book titled simply Image Comics—I’ll be finally telling the Dragon’s origin in there—and in June I’ll be releasing Savage Dragon #100, a 100-page blockbuster which I’ll be writing and drawing on my own (with inking help on the back-up stories by the best damned inkers in the biz). That and the one-shot crossover with Marvel ought to keep me pretty busy over the next year. It wouldn’t surprise me if I took on another ongoing mag by the end of next year, but it’s going to take me at least that long to get ready for it. And I’ll tell you one thing—it won’t be another book with seven core characters! [Laughs] What was I thinking? ★ (above) Larsen cover art to Defenders #10, featuring a Kirbyesque “Atlas” monster. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? As far as Kirby’s influence on my run of the FF—sad to say—it was relatively minor, because that was so early on in my career that the Neal Adams influence was still the major and most obvious aspect to my work. Were I to have done it after Elektra, or around the time of the New Mutants or even now, I would approach it much much much differently. I would have had absolutely no reservations whatsoever about exaggerating shapes, character appearances, machinery—whatever— which is much more in keeping with Kirby and Tex Avery than was my first (and only) go round. Oddly, when I was asked to do the book, I turned it down, because I didn’t feel my style was right for it at the time. I was also doing Moon Knight, and felt the workload would be overwhelming. But after a bit of editorial arm-twisting, I agreed to do it, because I was told that Joe Sinnott’s inks would unify the style to make it more consistent with the characters as we know them. And the idea of being inked by Joe Sinnott was an offer I didn’t want to miss.

4 4 4

PAUL RYAN

JIM LEE

(Artist on Fantastic Four #356-416, Annual #26)

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? My five-year run on the FF was the high point in my association with Marvel. I had picked up the first issue back in 1961 at the tender age of ten and I was hooked. Of all the issues Jack and Stan worked on I keep coming back to issue #6. This was the first time that Doctor Doom and Sub-Mariner teamed up. Jack really impressed me with his dynamic storytelling in this issue. I particularly remember the three-panel sequence when Namor leaped from the Baxter Building to Doom’s ship. The subsequent punching through the hull and attempting to rip open a hatchway door were great. I was impressed with the lighting effect when Subby is hit with an electrical charge. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? As to how those issues influenced me I can’t really say, except that they instilled in me a love of the characters. I occasionally used Jack’s three-panel sequence.

4 CARLOS PACHECO

(Artist on Fantastic Four #415-416, Vol. 3, #35-50)

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? Definitively, the Creation of Him; and then the men created God. This was the most revolutionary concept of its time. As far as the rumor goes, it was a shame this story wasn’t finished in the way Jack wanted. In graphic terms I think Jack Kirby did his best from #58-67. The way Kirby and Sinnott suited their art was perfect; not so soft, and more energetic than the preceding issues, and softer than but as energetic as the next ones. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? This is fun. Although I had been reading Lee/Kirby’s Fantastic Four for years I never heard Kirby’s name until I read Kamandi’s first issue. The first company that published Marvel Comics in Spain removed the credits so I never knew who the writers and artists were behind the first Marvel Comics wave. After reading the first Kamandi issues I found some obvious similarities between Kamandi and Ka-Zar and Ben Boxer and Reed Richards, so I assumed the hand that was holding the pencil in both books was the same guy. You will never know how proud I was when I knew I was right.

(Artist on Fantastic Four Vol. 3, #1-12)

DOUG MOENCH

(Writer of Fantastic Four #222-231)

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? Wow! There are so many. I don’t know. I guess... I know some of the later Silver Surfer/Galactus stuff is really, really great but I tend to like the very early stuff; not quite #1 but the first twenty issues certainly are probably my favorites, even though from #21-40 it was maybe better. There was something so fresh and new to me anyway about these first twenty, that those are the ones that really get me. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? That’s a strange thing, I didn’t know who the artist was gonna be. I tried to do stories that to me were very LeeKirby and I saw them as I was writing them as if drawn by Jack Kirby. And then the artist was Bill Sienkiewicz, who I had worked with on Moon Knight and really liked his stuff, but it seemed so strange to see this Jack Kirby style drawn in this kinda Neal Adams artwork. That’s when Bill’s style was still heavily influenced by Neal Adams and it never quite felt great to me, as good as it was. It’s just that I was thinking Kirby and I’m getting Neal Adams. Those two are very different, of course.

4 ALAN DAVIS

(Artist on Fantastic Four Vol. 3, #1-3)

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? Oh God, I don’t think that’s really possible to answer. I think they gelled well together—almost like a sort of true story. It was all so good. I can remember particular episodes for certain reasons. I wouldn’t be able to pick a single one out. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? Well, basically it was to imitate what had been done. The Fantastic Four had been redesigned and revamped when Scott Lobdell and I worked on it. The idea was to take it back to the roots. So essentially I didn’t reference Kirby and Lee issues. I basically drew stuff from memory. There were a couple of things that I did actually search out for— specific references—but the overall feel was just to recall childhood memories.

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? Tough one; the one I remember has the Inhumans racing on the cover. It’s that one because I think the Inhumans were as cool as the Fantastic Four. Their powers were pretty cool and they were so interesting and unique. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? It was the basis. How could you work on Fantastic Four and ignore them? Every decision you make creatively is based on their work. It’s still guiding you. You can’t ignore what they did. You can not work on the Fantastic Four without measuring it against what they did.

4 ART ADAMS (Artist of Fantastic Four #347-349, 358)

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? I believe it was #24 and #25 with the Hulk. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? That’s the source material and I think that it’s always important when you’re working on a book that’s been around for a while to go back to the source material.

4 JERRY ORDWAY

(Artist on Fantastic Four #294-295)

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? My favorite issue of the FF is #51. It’s the issue where the guy impersonates the Thing, and then sacrifices himself for Reed’s safety. Really amazing stuff. How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? The Lee-Kirby run affected me a lot. I had my old issues at my side when I drew my (almost) three issues, back in 1986. I don’t feel I was up to speed though, and always wanted another shot at the team, to do it right. 57

Collaborators (center oval) A stat sent to Jack for reference by Marvel production manager Sol Brodsky, at Stan’s request. Stan obviously knew readers would spot differences in Johnny’s hot rod issue-toissue, right down to the “F4NY” license plate number. From FF #65 (Aug. ’67). © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(below) Stan’s synopsis for FF #1. For a full discussion of it (including Stan’s annotations), get the Alter Ego: The Comic Book Artist Collection trade paperback from TwoMorrows.

Stan Lee Interview

Conducted by Jon B. Cooke on October 11, 2001 (When I was a 15-year-old smart-ass kid, I attended a lecture given by Stan Lee held at a local college. I asked “The Man” what he thought of Jack Kirby’s not-so-nice satirical jab at him in the pages of Mister Miracle casting Stan in the guise of huckster Funky Flashman. “Oh, that Jack,” diplomat Stan said, quickly dismissing me, “he was always a kidder.” Now, 27 years later, this is my second chance to ask questions of the founding father of Marvel Comics. This interview was transcribed by John Morrow, and copyedited by Stan.— Jon B. Cooke) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Was the Fantastic Four a fun strip to work on? STAN LEE: Sure, I loved it. TJKC: Do you remember when the Marvel Method started? [Editor’s Note: See Sidebar.] STAN: No, not really. I think it was even before the Fantastic Four. It might have been when Jack and I were doing monster stories. I’d give him an idea for a monster story, he would draw it, and I’d do the dialogue. Or it might even have been before that time. Memory-wise, I’m not much of a super-hero. TJKC: Did Kirby ever ask for a writing co-credit because of the Marvel Method, feeling he did part of the writer’s job? STAN: Kirby never asked me for co-writing credit. It was he who originally suggested the “By Stan Lee and Jack Kirby” credit, and as far as I knew he was quite contented with that. TJKC: In 1957, there was the problem with Atlas’ distributor American News collapsing. Did the Marvel Method grow out of that, because you were the single writer for what was then Atlas Comics? STAN: Well, it did grow out of the fact that I didn’t have time to write all the stories I had to write, and that was the quickest way to do it. TJKC: What was your relationship with Martin Goodman like? STAN: In the beginning I had a good relationship with him. Toward the end it soured a bit. TJKC: Do you remember the first time you met Joe Simon and Jack Kirby? STAN: Yeah, when I first came to work at the company Joe was the editor, the guy who hired me. Jack was the artist, and I was their assistant. TJKC: Do you recall how Jack got into Atlas later?

STAN: Not really. He was a freelancer. Either I called him or he called me, but whoever called who, I said, “Hey, I’ve got some work for you,” and he said, “Okay,” and he came and did it. TJKC: You guys had a good working relationship while you were working together, right? STAN: I think we had the best relationship in the world. TJKC: For a period of time, you wrote almost all the stories that were coming out; your brother Larry Lieber wrote some of them. As the company grew, you got Roy Thomas and a bunch of other people in, but you still remained on the books Jack was drawing. STAN: Well, I tried to stay with the most important stuff for as long as I could. I’d give Jack most of those strips because he was the best. TJKC: How did you work with Jack? Did you say something very simple, and he’d build off of that? STAN: In the beginning, I’d give him written-out plots, like the outline for the first Fantastic Four. After a while, I would just tell him what I thought the story ought to be. Then after a while, I would just give him a few words. He could practically do the whole thing by himself, y’know? Very often I didn’t even know what the hell he was going to give me. I’d get some pages of artwork, and I wrote the copy and turned it into whatever story I wanted it to be. TJKC: In the mid-1960s, right when you guys were hitting your stride, there was a cosmic era, where Galactus came in. It was really a classic time for the Fantastic Four. You’ve said, for instance, that you didn’t even know who the Silver Surfer was when he appeared on the pages for FF #48. STAN: Jack had thrown him in. I told him I wanted a character called Galactus and I described Galactus to him. When he sent me the artwork, there was this oddball on a flying surfboard, and I said, “Who the hell’s this?” He said, “I figured anybody as powerful as Galactus ought to have a herald who would go ahead of him and find planets.” I said, “That’s a great idea!” so I gave him the name “The Silver Surfer.” I liked the way Jack drew him very much; there was a certain nobility to his demeanor, so I tried to write him as though he was a somewhat spiritual guy. To Jack, he was just a herald, that’s all; just a sort of flunky for Galactus. But I thought he looked like much more than

that, so I began to feature him and write him like he was somebody special. TJKC: Correct me if I’m wrong; he became your favorite character at the company, right? STAN: What do you mean?

(above) Kirby pencils from FF #75 (June 1968), page 2. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

TJKC: You seemed to have a special place in your heart for the Silver Surfer. STAN: Oh, I misunderstood you! I thought you said “I” became my favorite character. (laughter) Well, I had a special place in my 59

heart for him, absolutely, but I did for most of the characters, I’ve got to admit. TJKC: It was interesting that Jack made the first visual representation of the character, and both of you guys fleshed him out, but when it came to the regular Silver Surfer book, you chose John Buscema to draw the book. Do you remember why? STAN: I don’t remember why. Maybe Jack was too busy; maybe John wanted to and Jack didn’t want to. I really don’t remember. I don’t remember the reasons for most of the decisions, because in those days, I didn’t think about it that much. I didn’t realize they would one day be historically important. TJKC: Do you have a favorite issue of Fantastic Four? STAN: No. Y’know, I’m no good at favorites, because there are so many things I like. People ask me, “Who’s your favorite hero? What’s your favorite story?” No matter what I say, I’ll read another one, and I’ll figure, “Gee, this is good; it’s even better than the one I thought was my favorite.” You see, the problem is, I’m my biggest fan. I love everything I did. (laughter) TJKC: Did you have any opinions of Vinnie Colletta’s inks as opposed to, say, Joe Sinnott’s? STAN: I was one of the few people who thought Vinnie was damn good. Sinnott was the best; he was the absolute best, but poor Vinnie always got bad press because he was the guy people would call when there was an emergency. He worked very fast, and if a strip was late, and we had to have ten pages inked in two days, we’d give it to Vinnie. After a while, he got so that he batted everything out, and consequently, nobody ever realized how good he could be when he took his time, because he almost never had a chance to take his time. He was a great emergency inker if you needed something done fast.

(above) Stan was not only Editor-In-Chief, but also Marvel’s Art Director, as evidenced by his note to Sol on this page from FF #85 (April 1969) about the big “buttons” on Dr. Doom’s cape: “Ask Jack Kirby--in closeups such as this, I think the big “buttons” should have more detail, pattern, or modeling. They look too unfinished, too cartoony, this way.” Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

TJKC: When Jack moved to California in 1968, did it put a strain on your working relationship? Was it tougher to work together? STAN: We worked through the mail. Even when we were in New York, he lived in Long Island, so it was the same as being in California. He still had to ship stuff over to me. What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? There were so many. “This Man, This Monster” because it brought real humanity to Ben Grimm. And, of course, the Galactus trilogy, not because it was a great story—it wasn’t; Reed solves this incredible problem by pulling a (literal) deux ex machina out of his butt—but because it was something that we had never before seen in comics. This story was so huge, so original to comics, and it led Marvel into years of the most incredible super-hero comics ever done, not only in FF but in Spider-Man and Thor as well. This was the beginning of a new age in super-hero comics that has to this day not been equaled. We are perhaps ‘more sophisticated’ in our writing and art, but we are not nearly as imaginative nor do we connect as emotionally.

MARV WOLFMAN (Writer on Fantastic Four #196-201, 203-206, 209-216, Annual #12 and #14)

How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? Everyone accused us of ripping off X-Men for the New Teen Titans because we brought back an old group and infused it with new characters. Nothing could be further from the truth. As I have said many times, we were doing our version of the FF. The Titans to me was a family like the FF. We dealt with the people in our group the same way Jack and Stan dealt with Ben, Reed, Sue and Johnny. No, we didn’t copy their stories or characters, but we were definitely influenced, mostly by the FF and secondarily by John Broome’s DC writing.

TJKC: When he left to work for DC, was it a surprise? STAN: Yeah. In fact, when he was in California, I remember we were still very friendly. I came to visit him a few times at his house. I even went to his... I forget now, his son’s wedding or his daughter’s wedding. We were very friendly until the very end. TJKC: Did Jack ever come to you with his New Gods concepts in the 1960s, before taking them to DC? STAN: Jack never offered The New Gods to Marvel before taking them to DC. TJKC: After Kirby left in 1970, you only continued regularly scripting comics for a couple of years. Why did you stop? Was Jack’s departure a consideration in that decision? STAN: I stopped most of my writing in the early ’70s because I became publisher and didn’t have time for as much writing—or for hardly any writing.

was also getting a salary, because I was the editor and the art director. So that’s why my income was more than his. But there was a time when I said to Jack, “Jack, I would love for you to take a job here with me. You be the art director, I’ll just be the editor. You be my partner, we’ll be totally 50/50 on everything.” He could’ve been exactly the same, but he didn’t want to. He wanted to stay a freelancer. TJKC: This was during what time period? STAN: Oh, I don’t know, I couldn’t give you the date, but I remember it very clearly. I even discussed it with people at the

(below) FF #76 (July 1968), page 5, featuring the Silver Surfer. The Surfer’s solo book, with art by John Buscema, would premiere one month later, so this storyline was certainly meant as a lead-in to reintroduce readers to the character. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

TJKC: Jack came back to Marvel in 1975; how did that come about? STAN: I don’t know; it all kind of homogenizes in my memory. (laughter) I’m no good at dates; I never can remember if this happened before that, or what happened when. All I’m sure of is, it happened. TJKC: But do you remember him coming back? You guys did one of the first graphic novels ever done, the Silver Surfer book. STAN: Was that after he came back? TJKC: Yeah. STAN: That sure was a great book; man, that was good. I’m amazed that didn’t become more of a classic. Or, hey, maybe it did! TJKC: How would you assess Jack Kirby and his work? What was he to Marvel, and what was he to you? STAN: Jack was one of the best artists in the business; one of the best artists I ever worked with. He was a genius. He was terribly important to Marvel. It’s very unfortunate that some people think he did half the work and I took all the credit. That just isn’t so. Every time I was interviewed, I would always say how great Jack was. Very often, the interviewers just left that part out. [Editor’s Note: See sidebar.] I had no control over what was written about us. People also used to say, “Stan made all that money, and Jack didn’t.” I was a freelance writer, Jack was a freelance artist. As an artist, he got paid a lot more per page than I did. The only reason I made more money is I 61

Bullpen. To this day, I don’t know why he wouldn’t take it. But anyway, that’s how it was. TJKC: What was it like to receive a package of art from Jack Kirby? Was it a delight to open it up and see what he came up with from a brief synopsis of yours? A lot of people look over Kirby’s pencils and just get astonished by his interpretations. STAN: I was never astonished, because I was used to it; I expected it. Jack’s work was always consistent. I don’t remember him ever doing one job that wasn’t as good as the other. They were all great. I never knew an artist who was so consistent. TJKC: What would you say is people’s biggest misconception of Stan Lee? And what do they generally get right about you? STAN: I’ve no idea what people think of me, either wrongly or rightly. TJKC: Of your time in comics, what are you proudest of? Any regrets? STAN: I’m proud of all I was able to accomplish at Marvel. As for regrets, I don’t have time for them. I’m not the kind of guy who looks back at the past—it’s too much fun looking to the future and figuring out what comes next. TJKC: Are you working on an autobiography? STAN: Somebody is writing it of me, and I’m contributing portions to it. It’s due out early next year, published by Simon & Schuster. TJKC: How was the DC Just Imagine… series; was it fun to work on? STAN: It’s twelve, count ’em, twelve 48-page books! (laughter) I’ve got to come up with a completely different angle for each one. It’s one of the toughest writing jobs I’ve ever tackled. Yeah, it’s fun because it’s so challenging, but man, what a heavy heap of work! TJKC: Any final comments about Kirby? STAN: Let me leave you with this. I think Jack was one of the greatest. He was one of the most honest, one of the most talented, one of the most hard-working, and one of the most dependable guys in comics. If you’d say to him you needed a job by such-and-such a date, it was there. He was never late. His work was always first-rate. He was all that anybody said he was, and he was also a hell of a nice guy. ★

(this page) Pencils from FF #91 (Oct. 1969), page 20, part of the last sustained Lee/Kirby FF “epic.” After this, the final year would be a series of one-shot, fairly mundane stories, such as (next page) #95 (Feb. 1970), page 15, featuring the lackluster villain The Monacle. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Sidebar: Giving Credit Where It’s Due (Editor’s Note: The following are excerpts from a Stan Lee interview conducted for a mid-1980s issue of Daily Variety, a major Hollywood trade publication. The interview was conducted by Tom Bierbaum, who graciously allowed us to run the following excerpts. We were working from the original full transcript, which was sent to us by Richard Kyle, but since we don’t have a copy of the issue or know its exact date of publication, we’re unsure if the following was actually published or edited out (hopefully someone out there can track down the issue and clear it up for us). Whether it was published or not, this does show Stan giving co-creator credit to both Kirby and Ditko— notably at a time when Jack was battling for the return of his original art from Marvel Comics.) TOM BIERBAUM: To what extent was Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko in the case of Spider-Man, participating with you? STAN LEE: Oh, it’s just like they were all co-creators in the sense that—it’s like a person who writes lyrics when someone else writes the music, I guess. I would come up with the concept. For instance, I would say I want to do a book called Spider-Man or the Hulk or the Fantastic Four. In the case of Spider-Man, Steve Ditko illustrated it for me and he created the costume and he created the look of the script. In the case of the Hulk and the Fantastic Four and others, Jack Kirby created the characters

visually, and it’s important to keep the word “visually” in there. He drew the characters that I described to him. And in the case of Daredevil, Bill Everett drew that. And in the case of Iron Man, Don Heck created that; the look of that character and so forth. I would say Jack did most of them with me; Jack is a very creative artist. He’s one of the best, most imaginative people I know, and it was wonderful working with him, as it was with Ditko and the others. And after a while these guys were so good at telling stories in pictures that I would just give them the kernel of a plot and they would illustrate the whole thing and put in a million

ideas I hadn’t thought of, and I would then put in the dialogue and the captions and refine and polish what they had drawn, and try to give it the style I felt the strip needed. So it was very much... they were all very much collaborations; collaborative efforts.

On The “Marvel Method”: STAN LEE: For twenty years I wrote the entire script, the descriptions, everything. When we started with Marvel, I found I was writing 12, 15, almost 20 magazines a month. I’d be writing one magazine— let’s say I was doing one for Jack, a story for Jack, and Ditko had nothing to draw. I couldn’t stop writing Jack’s story, but yet I couldn’t let Ditko stand around with nothing to do, so I’d say, “Look Steve, let me tell you what the plot is in a few words, then you go ahead and draw it. Draw it in 20 pages; whatever you want to draw, just so long as you tell this general story, and I’ll put in the copy later.” So in that way I could be writing for Jack and Steve was still busy; then Don Heck needed a story and I would give him a plot. And after a while I found I was keeping half a dozen or a dozen artists busy that way at one time. And it was more fun for me because I would get the work all illustrated. It was like doing a crossword puzzle. I would try to figure out what the illustrations meant and then I would put in the dialogue and captions. Very often I would put in dialogue and captions that didn’t even allude to what the artist had in mind, because I would come up with a different angle. And I enjoyed doing that and I found that you get better stories that way because you are getting the very best of the artist’s thinking, because he’s not hampered by a script. Now you have to have an artist like our artists who are very talented and who were good at story. If they don’t have a good sense of story, this won’t work. But these fellows know how to lay a story out from panel to panel so I would just get these illustrations. And it’s so much easier to do the dialogue when you see the expression on the character’s face rather than looking at a blank sheet of paper and a typewriter. So I felt the stories actually came out better working that way and what had started as a shortcut, a method, became a better way to do stories. ★

One Final Anecdote Excerpted from the March 1977 issue of Oui magazine (with thanks to Mike Gartland): STAN LEE: Kirby and I were once on a radio show... and the interviewer said, “Boy, you guys are getting so successful.” I said, “Well, we’re still just a little outfit trying to keep alive.” And Jack said, “Oh, come on, Stan. You know we’re the biggest. We sell more copies and we’re the most successful.” I covered up the microphone and said, “Jack, that isn’t the image we want. The minute people think you’re the biggest, they start rooting for somebody else. It’s human nature. I like the image that we’re still a little company, yapping at the heels of the big boys—like National Comics, which has Warner Bros. behind it.” Jack said, “No, I think when you’re big you should say you’re big.” 63

Analysis

The Final C

omic book historians have written about it. The most dedicated Kirby buffs have wrestled with it. It’s the one irony that permeates all Kirby scholarship: How, with all the imagination, skill, and experience at his fingertips, Kirby’s self-edited creations like the Fourth World books never achieved the popularity or the commercial success of Jack’s Silver Age Marvel work. Explanations run from Kirby’s inconsistencies at writing dialogue to fluctuations in the comic book marketplace to ill-treatment on the part of inexperienced editors. Gene Popa’s excellent article “Stan Lee Presents: The Fourth World” (TJKC #26) subtitled “What would a Marvel Comics New Gods have been like?” raised the issue, but gave only passing mention to what I believe is a key to the question. I’d like to bring to light what I consider a comic book archaeological find, the closest existing answer to the question of what a Marvel-published, Kirby-created Fourth World series would be like. The evidence lies in an obscure title Marvel published at the twilight of the Silver Age—a few overlooked episodes of a super-hero strip that didn’t even take up an entire book, but makes for a fascinating moment in the history of comics and particularly in the career of Jack Kirby: That rarest of rare animals, a series that Kirby wrote as well as drew—under the editorship of Stan Lee. Its title was “The Inhumans,” in a book called Amazing Adventures.

The Time And Place (this page) Cover details (inked by John Verpoorten) of the Inhumans’ final Kirby FF appearance in issue #99 (June 1970). Solo stories in Amazing Adventures would begin two months later, so like the Surfer before them, a story in the FF was used to get the ball rolling. © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(below) Kirby in 1967. Photo by Mark Hanerfeld.

It was 1970, nearly a decade after the debut of the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man. The Marvel style, canon, and universe were all well formed, commercially proven, and easy to crank out. They were also eminently applicable to characters from other media, like Conan the Barbarian, and to genres outside the super-hero vein, like the horror anthologies Tower of Shadows and Chamber of Darkness, and the romance books My Love and Our Love Story, that also premiered that year. Trying out As evidenced by different ideas in hopes of a new hit seemed to be the order of the day. Jack’s notes (right: Two new titles, Amazing Adventures and Astonishing Tales, revived the “split” format “Black Bolt says ‘The Earth that had been used several years earlier in Tales to Astonish, Tales of Suspense, and Strange Tales, is large--there must be...’”) spotlighting some secondary Marvel characters, presumably to see if they could garner the popand Stan’s insertion of a word ularity to support their own books. Astonishing Tales starred the perennial Tarzan knock-off balloon (far right), they originally Ka-zar and Dr. Doom. Amazing Adventures featured the Black Widow and the Inhumans. planned for Black Bolt to be able to It is on the splash page of the first Inhumans story that we first encounter Jack Kirby speak in his younger days, during being credited as a writer, as well as artist, of a Marvel super-hero series. Unfortunately, these Inhumans stories that ran as we’ll probably never know how this arrangement came about, since Stan Lee is notoriback-ups in Thor #146-152. ous for his bad memory and Kirby is dead. Did Stan, delighted at how well Jack had © Marvel Characters, Inc. been plotting the Fantastic Four and Thor for so many years, ask Jack if he wanted to script a series? Did Kirby petition Stan to let him try his hand at writing? Was Jack so frustrated by his lot at Marvel that he insisted on writing any new books Stan gave him to draw? Whatever the circumstances, we can safely assume that Jack wanted to write. The prospect probably appealed to Stan as well—if Jack could write as dependably as he drew, there would be one less editorial assignment to worry about. A strip in Amazing Adventures or Astonishing Tales would provide the perfect place to give Jack Kirby a shot at it.

Why The Inhumans? Why the Inhumans? Why not Ka-Zar, which Kirby was penciling in Astonishing Tales? Or Dr. Doom, whom Jack had drawn in the Fantastic Four since God was a boy? Probably because the Inhumans were largely Jack’s creation, like that other intriguing Fantastic Four supporting character from 1966, the Silver Surfer. Although the Inhumans had been introduced into the pages of the Fantastic Four individually over the course of a year or two, the emergence of these strange beings as a group—members of a common genetic offshoot of humanity—happened at a time when Jack was doing more and more of the plotting on the Fantastic Four—unlike Doom, who premiered in FF #5. Also, the idea of a race of genetically offbeat people is a theme Jack returns to several times in his career, most notably in The Eternals. In 1968, the “Tales of Asgard” feature that had occupied the last 5 pages of every issue of Thor was dropped in favor of an Inhumans 64

Family Reunion

by Mark Lerer

ten-page Inhumans stories, titled simply “The Inhumans” premiered in Amazing Adventures #1, cover date August 1970.

A Sound Editorial Presence

series, spotlighting their origins. Again, we have no verifiable idea whose initiative this was; we can see, though, because Stan Lee was writing the dialogue and Jack was drawing, that this Inhumans series reads very much like the Fantastic Four and Thor—we have Jack’s tremendous action scenes and cityscapes, and Stan’s noble heroes declaim their intentions with typical Lee-esque drama. I believe Jack probably thought of the Inhumans, like the Surfer, as “his,” and may have actively encouraged Stan to let him write, as well as plot and draw, the Inhumans in a strip of their own. In any case, it came to pass. The first of four

The first, most obvious thing one notices upon reading the ten-page Inhumans stories in Amazing Adventures #1-4 is that the disfluencies that mar Kirby as a scripter in his later, self-edited books are practically nowhere to be found. One would never know from reading these stories that Jack Kirby was as flawed a scripter as his later books would reveal him to be. There are far fewer instances of emphasis on the wrong words. Dialogue is understandable on the first reading. The conversations between characters clarify for the reader whatever may not be evident in the pictures alone, without sounding forced or contrived. The awkwardness is absent. Occasionally there is a triple exclamation point, but they’re rare. Compared with Jack’s DC books, or his post-1976 Marvel work, these stories are much more readable. The immediate conclusion? Obviously, Kirby was being edited here, and being edited carefully. Jack’s scripts read better when edited by Stan Lee than when edited by Jack himself. The plot of the first Inhumans story in Amazing Adventures #1 and #2 is very simple, and like a lot of series openers, involves some popular established characters as guest-stars. Evidence is discovered that the Fantastic Four are attacking the Inhumans. In the very last panel of part one, Black Bolt makes the fateful decision to battle the FF (“War!”). We learn that Maximus is behind the deception, and 65

after some good old-fashioned fight scenes, Maximus’ plan is revealed and the heroes make up. There are no subplots. This story is modest in scope, but well-paced and executed. It gives us a beautiful tour of the Great Refuge, and fascinating walk-ons by some wild and imaginative creatures. “The Inhumans” and “Friend Against Friend” read like stories by a talented scripter working under a skilled and respectful editor: A very fine “first assignment.” There is one more plus to Kirby’s Marvel material: Exceptional lettering. Mike Royer and D. Bruce Berry were good letterers, but Artie Simek and Sam Rosen were master craftsmen, and their lettering—whether very straight and formal like Simek’s, or having Sam Rosen’s “bounce”— make the Inhumans stories look much more professional and, again, easier to read.

(above) Last panel to Amazing Adventures #1 (Aug. 1970). (below) Nice Chic Stone inks over Kirby in AA #3 (11/’70). © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Jack’s Style Emerges Marvelesque touches are in evidence in Amazing Adventures #3 and #4. The title “With These Rings, I Thee Kill” is very, very Stan. The Inhumans fight an old Marvel villain, the Mandarin, and the splash page of issue #4, with the Mandarin’s ring-

adorned fist looming at the reader, wins the prize for exaggerated perspective, beyond anything in How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way. But however much it looks like a typical Kirby Marvel story, by this point, the critical reader is sure to have noticed a different writing style from the other Marvel books. Sure, like any good super-villain, the Mandarin gloats egomaniacally, but these stories do not read like a Stan Lee comic. The tone of these stories is less corny, less jaunty, and considerably more straight-faced than the usual Marvel super-adventures. The dialogue and captions are not written the way that Stan or Roy Thomas would have written them. They tell the story, but they haven’t been jazzed up. The Inhumans don’t talk to one another in the snappy patter that the Avengers do, nor with the melodrama of the Fantastic Four or X-Men. The drama is very understated instead of powerfully wrought, so the stories don’t read like the 5-pagers that ran in the back of Thor; and most of all, there are no Stan Lee-isms (i.e., no “Jolly Jack,” no “powerhouse presentation,” no “pussycats”). There’s a less flippant, more understated feel—one could almost use the word “deadpan”— than the usual late Silver Age Marvel fare. The Inhumans and the various characters who encounter them, like the Chinese border guards who stumble upon the Great Refuge in issue #1, speak in complete sentences with strong verbs and flawless grammar. If there is a fault to be found in the writing, it is that some of these characters can sound a bit wooden; but as a writer of dialogue, Kirby is clearly more interested in advancing the story than dazzling the reader with wit. Kirby’s occasional attempts at clever chatter—for example, the guest-star Fantastic Four’s banter in Amazing Adventures #1—fall a bit flat (although Jack does pull off the characterization of Ben Grimm admirably). Banter is not Jack’s strongest point as a scripter and, for the most part in these Inhumans stories, he avoids it—indeed, Jack’s distaste for Stan Lee’s gimmicky style was made evident a year or two later when he parodied “Funky Flashman” in Mister Miracle. (There are times in the Fourth World books when Kirby attempts some humorous narrative in the “coming next issue” boxes, and it just doesn’t fly. Similarly, his post-1976 Captain America is filled with colloquialisms that don’t come across. We would have been better off having Cap and the Falcon speak in the more conservative style of these Inhumans stories.) Because Jack’s syntax has been cleaned up by a good editor, and because he felt no compulsion to tailor his writing to suit the “house style,” there is less silliness, and also less pathos, to “The Inhumans” than in a lot of Marvel Silver Age books. As a result, these stories are appropriate not only for beginning readers who like a good super-hero tale, but also for those older readers who liked Marvel comics but who may have outgrown Smilin’ Stan’s soap-opera cutesiness. Even if it wasn’t quite Conan or Tomb of Dracula, this Inhumans series promised to depart from the Marvel cliches while delivering the elements that made Marvel super-hero comics so successful in the first place: Action, mystery, interesting characters, and, of course, exciting artwork.

Evolution And Transition And so, for one brief, shining moment, there existed a productive relationship between writer-andartist Jack Kirby and editor Stan Lee, and the result was a promising little comic book series. It is the major surviving example of a Lee-edited, Kirby-written comic—done in the tradition of the Fantastic Four and Thor, but looking toward the next level of sophistication. Of course, as everybody knows, Jack Kirby jumped ship and attempted to achieve this next level of sophistication on his own terms. While developing his mature storytelling style over the years at Marvel, he 66

Even Medusa, though alluring, is kind of freakish compared to Beautiful Dreamer, and one would certainly want to hug Serifan and Big Bear sooner than Black Bolt and Triton. Compare the splash page below of “Friend Against Friend” (Amazing Adventures #2) and page 5 of “Kingdom of the Damned” in Forever People #4 and you’ll see the contrast firsthand. As a result, The Forever People has a brighter feel than “The Inhumans.” But the precedent of the band of otherworldly people, often interacting with us normal human beings, is unmistakable.

Conclusions

What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? I think that whole Galactus/Silver Surfer story in #48 because it was the first one I ever saw. So not only is it now recognized as a classic thing but also it was one of the reasons that I’m doing Marvel at all because I saw it and said, “This was so cool!” The coming of Galactus, #48, was among the first Marvel Comics I ever saw, I thought it was incredibly cool; as I say it’s now recognized as a classic but it certainly sold me. And I will put in a good word (Writer of Fantastic Four #304-333, for Joe Sinnott as well. I always thought Joe Sinnott Annual #20-21) inking Kirby was amazing. I know for several years after that, people would say to me comics aren’t any good. I would whip this out and say, “Look at this artwork.” Kirby with Sinnott had all the magic of Kirby but it had that real professional sheen that Sinnott gave it. My first introduction to the whole thing, which you obviously always remember, fits into the fact that it’s a classic issue.

STEVE ENGLEHART

discovered several themes that he wanted to explore in books of his own invention. It is commonly agreed, for instance, that Thor contained a lot of the elements that evolved into the New Gods. I now assert that, similarly, The Forever People evolved, as a concept, from “The Inhumans.” Consider the elements common to both series. Both the Forever People and The Inhumans feature five good-hearted but somewhat naive major characters, representatives of another world—the Forever People from New Genesis, and the Inhumans from the Great Refuge—who adventure among us normal humans. In both cases the major characters enjoy a rapport with one another that shows a great deal of affection, mutual respect, and sense of purpose. As the Inhumans are spirited around dimensionally by Lockjaw, over whose teleportation they have very little control, so are Vykin, Big Bear, Beautiful Dreamer, Serifan, and Moonrider teleported around by the Boom Tube, their destinations not always under their control. The Forever People look to the Mother Box, which hums in moments of agitation, for leadership; the Inhumans look to Black Bolt, who doesn’t speak but whose antenna emanates energy during decisive moments. I believe, whether consciously or subconsciously, Jack here is drawing essentially the same group of heroes. There are, though, one or two very important changes in the evolution from The Inhumans to The Forever People. For one thing, the Inhumans, both in name and in appearance, are a fairly monstrous group, even at their noblest. They’re introduced with the word “Beware!” The Forever People are much more attractive and appealing characters. Jack probably reasoned at the time of creation that his newest vehicle would be much more popular if the major characters were more lovable and less threatening than, say, Gorgon and Karnak.

An overlooked series, “The Inhumans,” written and drawn by Jack Kirby in the first four issues of Amazing Adventures in 1970, represents a fascinating moment in the history of comics. First, it is proof that Kirby was an excellent writer when helped by a seasoned and supportive editor. Second, it is a moment of transition. Jack honed his style at Marvel in the ’60s on The Fantastic Four and Thor. By 1970, he was ready to script as well as draw his own creations, exploring themes he’d discovered along the way. Instead of working it out with Stan, though, Jack left Marvel, and so his most personal creations never had the benefit of an editor who treasured Jack’s work and understood best how to present it. What would, say, a Fourth World trilogy have been like had it been published by Marvel and edited by Stan Lee? We can only speculate—but this little comic book curiosity, “The Inhumans” in Amazing Adventures, gives us a tantalizing hint. ★

(top) Kirby’s Thing characterization is on-the-money in Amazing Adventures #2 (Sept. 1970). © Marvel Characters, Inc. (above) The Inhumans—prototype for the Forever People? How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? Again, it just seemed like the epitome of comics. Now, I have had over the years other epitomes. I thought that Neal Adams was as good as comics could get when I discovered him. Since then I’ve come into other people that I’ve thought, “This stuff is really good.” And it’s obviously not like that’s all I think is really good. That’s just necessarily true when there’s so many people working in the medium. But part of the Lee-Kirby Fantastic Four was actually part of the whole Bullpen mystique. The idea that we, Marvel, which meant Lee-Kirby as the figureheads of that whole thing were creating great comics. We were leading the whole field to new and better areas. It was going to become something that everybody, not just kids, would read. All that stuff that Marvel talked about, I bought into completely. So a large part of what I try to do has been to say let’s take it further, to take it to new fields. Let’s make it better. Let’s do things that haven’t been done before. I can trace that pretty directly back to the mystique that Stan and Jack were a team. Marvel, in general, pushed that mystique and I certainly believed in it. I could swear that people do believe in it when I showed up and got involved with it. I think the influence the Fantastic Four had on me is why I wanted to do it and it pretty much mapped out what I wanted to do. 67

Technique

Kracklin’ Kirby

(top) Compare the Surfer’s sense of power in these two covers, from FF #50 (May 1966) and #72 (Mar. 1968). © Marvel Characters, Inc.

Tracing the advent of Kirby Krackle, by Shane Foley ’ve often marvelled at the differences between the Silver Surfer figures on the covers of FF #50 and #72. Both are virtually pinups—both are of the same character and both are by King Kirby. But the first is a lithe, sinuous figure who is strong yet fluid. The second is shiny granite. Somewhere between May 1966 and March 1968—the cover dates of these two issues—Kirby’s way of drawing the human figure had changed. But something else had changed too. One of Kirby’s greatest and most lasting creations/discoveries had appeared—the spectacular and affectionately called “Kirby Krackle.” That cover of FF #72 is alive with it. Galaxies are formed out of it. Energy seething and rising is formed out of it. Little black dots in wonderfully evocative patterns make the cover feel electric! A quick look through the issue shows over half the pages have at least one panel on them using Kirby Krackle to represent anything from space to naked power to smoke to explosions to the energy surrounding teleportation. Kirby obviously loved it and thought it expressed these elements of his story well. I think we all agree there. Go back three years to FF #37. A space adventure with a cross-galactic voyage, the first Marvel age warping through Sub-Space, lots of action and explosions and battles. And something else, noticeable by its absence—not a single use of Kirby Krackle anywhere. So it seems somewhere, in the three years between FFs #37 and #72, Kirby created/discovered the power of simply arranging black spots to achieve an illusion of power even greater than he or anyone else had achieved before. So where did it all begin? Looking at the FF issues subsequent to #37, the first time I see something that begins to look vaguely like Kirby Krackle is during Ben Grimm’s battle with Dr. Doom in FF #40. But it isn’t really the Krackle at all. Common place in comic explosions were the heavy ‘flash’ lines indicating the lines of force and the heavier, ‘smokey’ ends on them. Kirby being Kirby drew them heavier than most others and made the explosions look stronger. There are numerous examples here. Also on page 19 panel 3 we see a semi-silhouetted Thing as he struggles against Doom’s power. Some of his outline is missing, suggestively hidden by Doom’s flashing power, but again, it’s not Kirby Krackle as such. It’s an example of how Kirby rarely if ever used subtle grading in any of his drawings but instead opted for full black or clear white—a characteristic of his that no doubt was foundational in how and why he was able to discover his Krackle. Jan. 1966—FF #46: The FF are full swing into their first meeting with the Inhumans. In it, Black Bolt’s antenna smolders, the Torch blasts through walls, Gorgon thumps things and there’s action everywhere. Lots of flashes and explosions and stress lines. But no Krackle. The concurrent Thor issues have Loki and the Absorbing Man in sequences with huge battles, Asgardian scenes and time travel. No Krackle here either. ‘Smokey’ explosions sure, but no Krackle. But it’s after the fight, on page 16 of FF #46, that we do get the first real hint that I can see that Kirby Krackle isn’t far away. There, in the first panel is Triton in his watery prison. His body is partially obscured in the fluid. How? Not with the usual cross hatching, but with black dots. It’s not much, but perhaps something was sparking the King’s mind. March 1966—FF #48: Page 7 and 8 have the first ever shots of the then-new Silver Surfer. And there, in the space scenes, the smoldering Universe is partially drawn in black dots. Then on page 13, there it is again. Panel 4 shows an explosive Universe behind the Surfer. And in panel 5 (shown at left), we see him ‘surfing’ the Krackling shock waves of the explosion—the first real use of Kirby Krackle, and in such a landmark issue as the first Surfer/Galactus issue. Amazing—Kirby was inspired! The concurrent issue of Thor was #125. (Note: As any true ’60s Marvel fan knew, Thor, the Avengers and a few others were ‘out of sync’ with their cover months. Though Thor #125 was cover dated February, it was opposite FF #48—dated March—in the checklist. This discrepancy wasn’t rectified

(center) The first tentative steps toward Kirby Krackle, not quite fully evolved, from (l to r) FF #40 (July 1965, pg. 19) and #46 (Jan. 1966, pg. 16). © Marvel Characters, Inc. (bottom) From the Reader’s Digest Book of Strange Stories/Amazing Facts, 1975 (page 37), this center image is of Quasar 3C273, the first quasar, discovered in 1963 by Maarten Schmidt. Odds are good Kirby was aware of its existence in the mid1960s; is it the genesis for Kirby Krackle, which appeared fully formed for the first time in this panel from the Surfer’s first appearance in FF #48 (March 1966)? © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(next page) Pencils from FF #75 (June 1968), page 3, showing full-blown Kirby Krackle. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

until Nov. 1971; and why my mind keeps such essential details in its memory bank is beyond me.) Did it have any Krackle? Maybe. For the first time, it looks like the space surrounding Asgard in a panel on page 7 is Krackly. April 1966—FF #49: On page 5, black smoke pours off the Torch—probably smoke as it’s always been drawn rather than the new Krackle—but it looks great and full of Kirby power. Page 12 has the first apparent use of the Krackle to show power and energy on a smaller scale than a space backdrop. As Galactus’ machine hums into life, the Krackle dances and flickers around it. Kirby must have realized—it worked great. Page 16 was again a space shot. On the righthand side is swirling galaxy, composed mainly of black dots in Kirby’s new way of representing the cosmos. Top left is another space swirl—but one which has no black dots. This one doesn’t hold a candle to the other and Kirby must have seen this as he drew them less and less as the power of the Krackle took over. I said FF #49 page 12 had the first ‘apparent’ use of Kirby Krackle at ‘small’ level. Why apparent? Because Thor #126—same month (despite the cover)—also has it and maybe this was drawn earlier. Page 3 shows Odin silhouetted with power crackling around him, and page 10 shows Seidring’s hand crackling with energy, Krackle style. For the first time, Kirby Krackle dances and spits around a character’s hand. Kirby still hadn’t fully come to grips with his new toy, though. Every time he employed his Krackle, it was against a shadowed background. When in full light, the Krackle disappeared and energy was shown the old way with wavering, stress and flash lines. Still, April 1966 was a watershed month. The next month, FF #50 takes the concept a little further. On page 2 when Galactus is showered in energy from the Surfer, he is shown awash in Krackling dots. No dark or space background here. When Johnny reappears from the void, he does so in a sea of Krackle out of the darkness. But when Galactus finally departs, he does so amidst flashing lines and some Krackle. Again, it is not dark, but Kirby makes it so for the dramatic effect. The Krackle is coming into the light. Over the next months, it is similar. Thor #127 has a few examples.

Every so often, Kirby uses his new, powerful discovery. As of October 1966, Kirby seems to decide his wonderful Krackle serves his purposes better than any other. The deciding factor is the return of the Silver Surfer in FF #55. Again, the concept of this being of immense power from the stars ignites Kirby’s imagination and his penciling abilities do not let him down. Suddenly, Kirby Krackle is everywhere as the Surfer and his board glow and sputter and seethe and writhe with barely contained energy. It seems as if Kirby was from then on unable, or unwilling, to show any power packed fight scene with anything less than the high octane excitement that his

krackling black dots could create. Kirby’s other books swiftly follow suit. The Red Skull’s use of the cosmic cube in the same month’s Captain America is ably depicted by generous helpings of Kirby Krackle. The following month’s Thor saw Kirby Krackle ‘glowing’ around 69

Kirby Krackle: A Work In Progress

Journey Into Mystery #125, page 7, panel 3 (Feb. 1966, Colletta inks). All art this page © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(next page) Pencils from FF #75 (June 1968), page 6. Kirby even used Krackle in water scenes! Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc.

FF #49, page 5, panel 4 (April 1966, Sinnott inks).

FF #49, page 12, panel 5 (April 1966, Sinnott inks).

FF #49, page 16, panel 3 (April 1966, Sinnott inks).

Thor #126, page 3, panel 4 (March 1966, Colletta inks).

Thor #126, page 10, panel 4 (March 1966, Colletta inks).

FF #50, page 2, panel 5 (May 1966, Sinnott inks).

FF #55, page 11, panel 5 (Oct. 1966, Sinnott inks).

FF #55, page 13, panel 2 (Oct. 1966, Sinnott inks). 70

FF #55, page 20, panel 2 (Oct. 1966, Sinnott inks).

Thor #133, page 9, panel 2 (Oct. 1966, Colletta inks).

Ego’s humanoid form (lots of dots instead of the normal radiating glow lines), and in great symbolic form, the Recorder is shown with his body full of Krackle to show the energy he is using to record Thor’s amazing battle. From then on, it was Kirby Krackle all the way and no Kirby book ever seemed to look back. Kirby must have really liked the illusion his abstract little dot designs gave. His Treasury Edition of 2001—a huge book—was filled with page after page of beautifully designed swirls and bursts of Krackling dots. Right to the end of his career, when drawing simple lines would have been so much easier, he was still filling his pictures with Krackle. These dot patterns were never careless or undesigned. Clearly seen on many of his pencil photocopies are boundary lines drawn where he defines where he wants his energy trails to go and where he encloses the dot masses; and always, these designs and trails were used to focus the eye of the reader onto the subject of the panel. They supported that subject with an explosive and energetic environment, but never distracted from it. How does it work? After all, there are no black dots really in space or around naked power. Who knows? Kirby was evidently once asked why he put squiggles on peoples’ chins. He said, “I don’t know—I just did it once and it looked good,” and so into his armory of special penciling effects it went—but people don’t really have squiggles on their chins. Perhaps Kirby Krackle is the same. Where did it come from? It seems to me that the origins of this effect must reside in black-&-white photographic imagery somewhere. Around the same time as the Krackle started being used, Kirby started drawing lightning (and many power blasts) in a more realistic ‘photographic’ manner rather than the ‘Shazam’ lightning. So he was probably using photo reference. In 1963, the first Quasar was photographed. The image is starkly black-&-white, with a mass of dots delineating the image. There’s even an inexplicable black ring in one corner of the image I’ve seen. We’ve seen Kirby draw such shapes as that as well in his swirling space-scapes. Since we have seen that the marvelous Kirby Krackle first surfaced in representations of space, perhaps it was a photo such as this that forever change the way he drew such things. Along similar lines is a photo of a hurricane taken from space. Perhaps something like this—looking for all the world like a spiral galaxy and easily drawn in harsh black-&-white—ignited Kirby’s imagination one day. For more Earthbound subjects, it seems to me that also here older, high contrast pictures had a big effect on Kirby’s imaging. In those photos, many details are lost and all that remains are sharp black shapes. The lack of detail is often very powerful. Heavy black smoke often appears in those photos— again often without the gradations of detailed photography and ripe for Kirby’s mind to adapt—and drawing What Lee/Kirby issue of Fantastic Four is your favorite and why? My second favorite FF story was “This Man, This Monster” because it was full of raw emotion and ran the gamut from simple human interaction—like Johnny’s college scenes—to the introduction of the Negative Zone. However, my favorite Lee/Kirby story was actually a Human Torch solo story that appeared in Strange Tales (issue #114) that pitted Johnny against Captain America (who was eventually revealed to be a fake). WOW! Talk about mind-blowing action in the mighty Marvel manner!

4 TOM DeFALCO

(Writer on Fantastic Four #356-416, Annual #26)

How would you say the Lee/Kirby issues influenced your work on the FF? I tried to recapture the anything-can-happen sense of wonder that sprang from the early issues of FF.

this better than most others was already part of Kirby’s box of tricks. It’s not too big a jump to see how Kirby, seeing that his Krackle energized his space scenes, grafted that new concept onto a form of the older one and was delighted with the result. If his Universe now looked explosively energetic, why not use the same tactic for the representation of the power of his super-characters? Kirby Krackle was here to stay. Much earlier, Roy Crane made a little invention. He worked out that by making words in comic panels bigger or smaller or open for color or angled or shaky and the like that things like whispering, shouting, fear, anger and sound effects worked much better. Now, his approach is taken for granted, as though it is obvious. Kirby Krackle is similar. People who have never heard of Jack Kirby use a form of Kirby Krackle. But until 1966, there was no such thing. And it was Kirby who found it. ★ 71

An Ode To Joe Sinnott

TRIBUTE

Compiled by George Khoury (Editor’s Note: Inker Joe Sinnott was a huge part of the success of the Lee/Kirby run of Fantastic Four. After inking FF #5 and a page of FF #6, he had to hand the book off to Dick Ayers, but returned with #44, and with very few exceptions, inked most of the next several hundred issues— staying on well past when Jack and Stan both left the series. So as a tribute to Joltin’ Joe, we had George Khoury ask a few of the top inkers in the industry for their opinions of Joe and his Fantastic Four work.)

TOM PALMER (above) Joe Sinnott in 1997. Photo by John Morrow. (right) Sinnott-inked Surfer detail from FF #72 (March 1968). © Marvel Characters, Inc.

(below) Joe drew this pencil piece for inker Terry Austin in 1997.

e was the greatest. Very easy answer; he is the Dean of our business. Joe contributed to one of the X-Men Hidden Years books that I was working on with John Byrne. I think it was issue #8, and the Fantastic Four appeared. John had an idea of getting Joe and seeing if he was willing to ink those figures, and I did everything else. I did a little bit and I sent it off to Joe, and I was just amazed. It was like nothing had changed. It was like Joe was back in the 1960s; he was just as able and as good as he was then, if not better. I was just really, really impressed. He is the Dean.

Thing © Marvel Characters, Inc.

AL GORDON It’s funny, but I have been compared stylistically to Joe for years—which shows you how stupid some people are, [laughs] because Joe is a monster and I’m just a noodle who’s still learning here. I’m a noodle who’s been in comics for twenty years. Joe is one of the finest inkers who ever lived as far as I’m concerned. I’ve learned more from just looking at his stuff. Joe is a monster and he’s absolutely one of my favorite inkers. I had the wonderful opportunity to work on this book that I don’t think turned out all that well, but it really had its heart in the right place; it was called The World’s Greatest Comics Magazine. It was basically a tribute to Stan, Jack and Joe (although Joe doesn’t get any tribute copy on the cover). So a bunch of us were all trying to do Jack and Joe. I got to ink Keith Giffen’s pencils and I did my darndest to try to look as much like Joe as possible. The thing that was really exciting to me was that I got all of my FFs out of storage and sat with them next to my drawing table for about six months. Man, it was like going back to school! It was the best inking lesson I could have ever hoped for; I had such a great time. I would look at what Keith Giffen had penciled and I wondered what Joe would have done. And of course you end up getting lost in his stuff because it’s so gorgeous and you’re like, “What was I looking for again?” Beautiful stuff.

TERRY AUSTIN For more years than I can remember, Joe’s style was synonymous with the Fantastic Four. As long as you could open the cover of an FF book and witness Joe’s careful delineation of our favorite family/quartet, all seemed right with their world, and consequently, ours. His lush brushwork, with its textural impeccability, was a dependable comfort, month after month; we relaxed, knowing our four friends (no matter the penciler) were in good hands. His genuine affection for these characters never failed to shine through. I remember when Franklin Richards received his unofficial FF shirt, with the “41⁄ 2” on the chest, thinking that that shirt rightly belonged to Joe—only in a much larger size, of course, one befitting one of the giants of our industry. ★

This piece began as a Kirby-penciled animation background in the late ’70s. Joe Sinnott was asked to ink it in the late 1990s, and add the FF figures. Characters © Marvel Characters, Inc. 73

All characters TM & © the respective copyright holders.

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DRAW! #2 THE PROFESSIONAL HOW-TO MAG ON COMICS & CARTOONING!

Acclaimed historian Bill Schelly gives you AN INSIDER’S TOUR of comics fandom of the 1960s & ’70s. The fans, the comicons, the fanzines—they’re all here!!

• Cover and interview by Cartoon Network’s GENNDY TARTAKOVSKY (DEXTER’S LAB & SAMURAI JACK)! • Inking tips and tricks with KLAUS JANSON! • PHIL HESTER on creating and self-publishing comics! • Interview and How-To by online artist STEVE CONLEY! • The second installment of “Secrets of Drawing Lovely Women” by BRET BLEVINS, reviews, links and more!

A 116-page giant issue featuring: • BRIAN BOLLAND (Judge Dredd, Batman: The Killing Joke, Heart Throbs) sketchbook and interview! • BRIAN AZZARELLO (100 Bullets, Hellblazer) interview! • BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS (Jinx, Ultimate SpiderMan, Fortune and Glory) interview! • BRIAN CLOPPER (Rampage, Brainbomb) interview!

• New interview and portfolio of Rocketeer creator and “Good Girl” artist DAVE STEVENS! • Interviews and art with JAMIE, GILBERT & MARIO HERNANDEZ, the brothers of LOVE AND ROCKETS! • MATT WAGNER, creator of MAGE and GRENDEL! • SANDY PLUNKETT, master of exquisite artistry! • DEAN MOTTER, the creative force behind MR. X! • Plus RUSS MANNING, DOUG WILDEY, and more! (Edited by JON B. COOKE • 116 pages) Six-issue subscriptions: $36 Standard, $54 First Class (Canada: $66, Elsewhere: $72 Surface, $96 Airmail).

A FIRSTHAND ACCOUNT OF EARLY FANDOM

• Intro by ROY THOMAS, cover by DICK GIORDANO! • Share Bill’s encounters with FREDERIC WERTHAM, STEVE DITKO, BOB KANE, JIM SHOOTER, and more! • Over 150 photos and illustrations by KIRBY, DITKO, NEWTON, EISNER, C.C. BECK, KALUTA, KRENKEL, COCKRUM, SINNOTT, GIL KANE and others! 216-page Trade Paperback, $20 in the US (Canada: $22, Elsewhere: $23 Surface, $27 Airmail).

(Edited by MIKE MANLEY • 112 pages w/ color section) Four-issue subscriptions: $20 Standard, $32 First Class (Canada: $40, Elsewhere: $44 Surface, $60 Airmail).

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Comments

Send letters to: THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR c/o TwoMorrows • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 E-mail to: twomorrow@aol.com • See back issue excerpts at: www.twomorrows.com All letters will be considered for publication unless you specify otherwise. We reserve the right to edit for length, clarity, or anything else, since we possess the Power Cosmic.

Just a note, now that I’m done reading it, to let you know how much I enjoyed issue #32. It is one of those issues that you wind up reading every article in. I especially thought the Marvel western article was great as I’ve been trying to collect these treasures for the last two years. Thank God for eBay! I’m not sure if I should thank Mr. Hammond or not though, as I still have a few more issues to go and competition is bad enough for these books. But aside from that it was a great article and issue. I am, and I’m sure everyone else is, looking forward to next issue and the FF. Under Stan and Jack, this truly was “The World’s Greatest Comics Magazine.” Thanks for listening. Also, I think the new larger format enhances Jack’s work, if that’s possible. David Garrett, Albuquerque, NM

(Among other things, our annual trip to Comic-Con International: San Diego in July yielded the scoop on the Flesh Crawl cover (shown above) that we ran last issue. Former Kirby assistant Steve Sherman stopped by our booth to say he immediately recognized it when he saw it in TJKC #32. Turns out it’s a cover rough Jack submitted to DC Comics around 1974, with the full title being “Tales to Make Your FLESH CRAWL.” Jack roughed it in, then Steve added the logo and tightened up the pencils. By Steve’s recollection, it’s about 20% Kirby, 80% Sherman. David Schwartz wrote to remind us that, when Mark Alexander’s article discussed Jack’s “record” number of pages, he credited Ray Wyman Jr. solely as the author of the book The Art of Jack Kirby. Actually, it was a collaborative effort, with much of the research also done by Catherine Hohlfeld (she’s credited as co-author on the cover). Sorry for the oversight, Catherine! Before we get to your letters on #32, let me start with one of the many letters of support from overseas readers we’ve received since the horrendous attacks of September 11:) Ciao da Italia. I am one of your old subscribers of TJKC. Let me say that I am very upset for the strike against America from Osama and Co. They are beasts and I will be ever by your side, the side of America. I am very angry and very very out of my mind with all those Italian and European people who say that the USA is an enemy of all people. No more! Don’t they remember when you came to Europe to free us? And then when you helped us Europeans to recover? Ah! God bless America and may all your victims rest in peace! You are the first American people who I write so I must say so!! Andrea Giberti, ITALY (If anything good has come out of the attacks, it’s the gratifying response I’ve personally received from so many fans around the world, and the closeness 76

I enjoyed reading the Mighty Marvel Western Gunfighters essay in Kirby Collector #32. Keith Hammond did a nice job of summarizing Kirby’s Marvel western work. His index is similar to one that a bunch of us put together on the Kirby discussion list a few years back. While Keith caught most of the reprint changes to Kirby’s art, he missed the changes to Black Rider’s costume in the art that was printed with the article. On the art printed on pp. 53 and 63, the Rider has a half-face mask which is consistent with the reprinted version in Western Gunfighters #10. However, in the original story from Black Rider Rides Again #1, the character is wearing the domino mask mentioned in Keith’s text. I personally like the half-face mask better, but the original lacked this look as well as the cape which someone at Marvel must have added for the reprinted story. I hope the changes were made to stats and not to the original art itself! Clint Brady, Issaquah, WA The tabloid format definitely fits the magazine’s purpose. It is the best way to enjoy Kirby’s original pencils at their original size. Not to deny the text’s quality but it is sometimes difficult to focus on the articles when so close to those magnificent huge pencils! The art gallery was totally breathtaking! More Dingbats pages, please! I can’t wait for the FF special next issue! Mark Evanier’s new installment was great. Like in last issue, I was particularly struck by the article’s illustrations. Mike Royer’s reinking over pencils that have been ruined by other artists is fantastic! What a wonderful idea! Was I glad to read (at long last!) the Lost Interview in its original form without too much editing on it! Jack remained true to himself and the result is really fascinating. The checklist update was also welcome. Please continue to publish the new entries as they come by. Your article on The Horde was very informative and long overdue. In the end, I’m afraid too many people working on the manuscript may eventually distract it from Kirby’s initial intentions. This kind of thing has already happened too many times in the cinema industry as far as scripts are concerned. The Marvel western article was excellent! This is the kind of article, both informative and well illustrated,

that makes TJKC the best magazine around (along with the other TwoMorrows publications, of course!). Anyway, I’m afraid this article may start a new interest in those incredible (and still underappreciated) early Marvel books and that I’ll have to pay even bigger prices! Nevertheless, I’ve got a few questions/criticisms about this all-in-all excellent issue. 1) I would have liked to see more samples of Arnon’s work in his interview (I know it’s the JACK KIRBY Collector and that it’s a terrible task to page articles, but Arnon’s art is really worth it!). 2) Although the Ladronn cover was excellent, I wondered why it was used this issue and not in #31 with the interview? 3) In the “Challenges of the Unknown” article, I was somewhat frustrated to see several previously unknown (at least to me!) Soul Love pages from the “Fears of a Go-Go Girl” story, being published but still impossible to read! Although the presentation was really nice, the pages’ disposition and blurry print made it impossible for the avid Kirby reader I am to appreciate them and finally have access to the complete story. In this case, your conclusion to the article mentioning your “dedication to making sure as much of [the unpublished art] as possible gets seen” was somewhat inadequate! Could you please republish the aforementioned pages at a readable format? Jean Depelley, FRANCE (The Ladronn art ran an issue later for the simple reason that the artist was very busy, and didn’t have time to get it finished. I think it was worth the wait.)

Americans now feel toward each other. The attacks had a major effect on how next issue is shaping up; see the box at the end of the lettercolumn for the details.)

Love TJKC and really like the new larger format, but how could you do this to me (and others)? The teaser is clear on the cover of issue #32 that you had Soul Love inside and true that you did. However, how could you tease us Romance “Kirby style” fans by showing the images soooo small and then suggest that there isn’t a fan base for this stuff?! Like it? I absolutely love it, and if I’m a lone voice out there I will be shocked. Please show more and bigger; like the last time you ran some in issue #23. Keep up the great love and please—more Soul Love! David Grisez, Santee, CA

COLLECTED KIRBY COLLECTOR Vol. 1 FOR SALE! We just got back a few copies from an old distributor; once they’re gone, that’s it! $26 postpaid in the US ($28 Canada, Elsewhere: $29 Surface, $33 Airmail) from TwoMorrows. It reprints TJKC #1-9, plus new material (including #9, the original FF theme issue)! Also VOLUME 3 is almost SOLD OUT, so order now! (See page 75 of this issue for price of Vol. 3 & ordering address).

The new treasury size is great! The Soul Love art was fabulous. Any chance you can print more, only larger? Even reduced, these panels are beautiful. The Dick Ayers info was appreciated. I know many, like myself, will contact him and pay the nominal fee to have a classic comic autographed! Why do you mainly print excerpts, such as In The Days Of The Mob #2 and “The Twin”? Copyright limitations? What you do is great, but it is also frustrating to be engrossed by Kirby and not have the complete story, such as it may be. It seems Disney had Mike Royer really “sanitize” the Kirby art on Black Hole. He is really a good Kirby inker, but I have never seen JK’s art so lifeless (the pencils were fine). I blame the Disney “House Style” on this particular product, not Royer. “Kirby As A Genre.” Let’s see more. How about Herb Trimpe? Due to sheer volume, he may be the most significant Hulk artist, ever. Since Jack Kirby cocreated Hulk, why not cover Trimpe, whose art was very dynamic and powerful, much like “The King”? Also, any chance you have any news on Herb Trimpe’s current status as an artist? I heard from my comic dealer he can’t get work in the industry (not surprising, since even Kirby’s last works were with smaller publishing houses such as Pacific, evidently shunned by the Big Two except for minor cover assignments and lip-service to his role in his own creations) and is currently teaching art in a middleschool system in NY. He must be a great teacher, but I hope he has some contact with fandom. David Bromley, Richmond, VA (We print excerpts from stories or show reduced-size images, so as not to infringe on the copyright holder’s ability to use the work. In the case of some of the unpublished/unfinished work, since we don’t have access to records showing whether Jack was actually paid for it, there’s a question as to who owns the rights—Jack or the company he intended it for—so we err on the side of caution, so as to not infringe. As for Herb Trimpe, be sure to check out the February 2002 issue (#18) of COMIC BOOK ARTIST for a roundtable chat with several 1960s Marvel Bullpenners, including Herb.) I’ve had a chance to examine closely a couple more early Marvel original art pages, from Tales to Astonish #11. The “Monstrum” story, page 4, has no margin

notes and Jack’s writing is under all the captions and word balloons. Finally, I’ve examined a page from Fantastic Four #3, page 22, and all the writing under the balloons and captions is Stan’s. There are a couple of very minor margin notes, erased to the point of indecipherability, but that writing is also Stan’s. The only margin note I can read says, “(A.S. is adding end blurb to last page and making one correction)”. [Editor’s note: A.S. refers to Artie Simek.] I’d also like to voice my agreement with your stance in your “Opening Shot” on page 2, about the desirability of seeing Kirby’s least-known work. After all, we only have what Jack has already done; there’ll be no more forthcoming! To ignore his lesser work would be like throwing out any minor, incomplete works of Beethoven, say, because they aren’t the best representation! Steve Robertson, Simi Valley, CA Regarding Mark Evanier’s column “Jack F.A.Q.s” in issue #32, Mark states that “quite a few of the folks who peopled Kirby’s Fourth World were based to some degree on people from Jack’s life, or composited from several people.” With regard to Glorious Godfrey, in one of the phone conversations I had with Jack, he told me that Arthur Godfrey (the greatest salesman in early broadcasting history) was the inspiration for the character. He laughed and said, “That guy could sell anything to anybody!” Arthur Godfrey (who also resembled Glorious Godfrey) had a friendly public persona that masked a fiery temper, which eventually toppled his career. Arthur was one of the most famous persons of Jack’s younger years. I’m sure Mark knows twenty times more about him than me, so as far as Glorious Godfrey is concerned, I think the character is about eighty percent Arthur and twenty percent Billy Graham. Carl Taylor, Los Angeles, CA (Arthur Godfrey also had what’s been described as an “unruly shock of red hair” and a “deep, microphoneloving voice” that charmed the national audience in the 1950s; both sound like they’d apply to Glorious Godfrey as well. Thanks for the tip, Carl!) I believe that I have discovered another compelling example of Kirby’s TV influences. I recently picked up (in a comic book shop, no less) a cassette of the 1959 Steve McQueen western TV series Wanted, Dead or Alive. At the conclusion of the episode entitled “The Kovack Affair,” McQueen’s character Josh Randall forces his way into the office of a crooked gambling boss named Kovack. Randall gives Kovack a savage beating and forces him to sign over his casino holdings. This episode bears an astounding resemblance to a story in Rawhide Kid #31, “Shoot-Out With Rock Rorick.” In the 1962 story, Rorick is a greedy rancher who is forcing people off their spreads. In the final pages, the Rawhide Kid breaks into Rorick’s and whips him into submission, forcing him to sign over

the stolen land. The incident is an unforgettable action sequence and unusual in that although Rorick does first try to kill the kid with a lead weight dropped from the ceiling, the remainder of the fight is totally one-sided, as the kid throws one punishing blow after another. Rorick bears a striking resemblance to Kovack, a tall, burley figure in jacket, vest and string tie. Both characters are completely humbled by the savagery of their respective attackers. The Kid even tells the villain, as did Randall, that he wishes Kovack would hold out longer because he enjoys giving the beating so much. I’ve heard it said that Kirby did to some extent model the Rawhide Kid after McQueen, who although a rather small man was an outstanding athlete and quite capable with his fists. McQueen was also very handy with a gun and quick on the draw. The Rawhide Kid has always been one of my favorite Kirby characters because of the characteristics he shared with ’50s and ’60s screen rebels, misunderstood loners with chips on their shoulders who generally don’t look for trouble but explode into violence when pushed too far. Kirby seemed to like that scenario too. BNorbo, via e-mail Thanks for TJKC #32. I liked it! I wasn’t sure about the new format, but I loved the second issue a lot more than #31! (I can’t explain that, it’s just my feeling.) If you look through the old issues (which I recently did), you see the difference! It’s unbelievable! I liked the article about The Horde—I bought the Copperfield book years ago and I liked it! And I absolutely agree with you—I want the original/ unmodified story published. Everybody thinks he can do it better and wants a piece of the pie; what about printing it in TJKC, a few pages each issue? I liked the unpublished Soul Love stories; I want to see them all! Loved the gallery with Days of the Mob, True Divorce Cases and Dingbats and the Kamandi, Black Panther and Captain Victory from #31. More of them! Loved to read that J.M. Arnon’s favorite Kirby series is Devil Dinosaur. I love Kirby’s work from Marvel in the ’70s—especially 2001, Devil Dinosaur, Black Panther (hey—am I the only one around who likes it?), Machine Man and even the Silver Surfer Graphic Novel. It’s nice that the painter Brandl and the composer Youngerman came together! I am a studied musician (Jazz guitar/vocals/composer)—I published my new CD “CODE7—In Here Out There” (on Bantree Records; see http://www.code7.de) in the beginning of this year—and you can hear a song of mine called “The Watcher”—one line I wrote is: “You’re watching the planets where technology reigns supreme...”. I took this from 2001 #7, page 10, as my tribute to Jack Kirby! I also was astonished about the Colletta and Royer inks on the splash page from Thor #166—it is nearly impossible to have good words for Colletta! All the power is lost! I don’t agree with J.P. Alexander on Kirby’s 2001—I personally love the series; the big pictures, the sad stories (for me the “New Seed” story and the “Norton of N.Y.” are nearly heartbreaking). There is so much feeling in those stories; a feeling I don’t get with the movie. Torsten Austinat, GERMANY I am a screenwriter from Germany and a comics fan since I was four. Here in Germany, anyone reading comics was regarded as borderline illiterate when I was young. So I did hide my comic stacks in front of others. But comics had a great influence on my screenwriting career. Living in Germany I always thought: I am the only screenwriter that loves comics, 77

because the other ones I knew always talked about filmmakers or Goethe or the Heine or something. Recently I stumbled on an Internet column by the American screenwriter Ted Elliot (Shrek, Alladin, Men in Black—just to name a few of his credits), and he wrote: “And it turns out that, for some unknown reason, comic book geeks often go on to get hired as screenwriters. Most of the screenwriters I know started as comic book/science-fiction and fantasy nuts. I don’t have any numbers to back me up, it’s just an impression—but it’s true for myself, and every single one of the screenwriters I know. I suspect—though I don’t know why—that the type of mind that is attracted to those fields is also the type of mind that is ‘good’ at screenwriting (or at least considered ‘good’ by Hollywood standards). In the way that computer science favors the loner really-into-it-with-no-otherlife computer geek, screenwriting favors those who retreat from life in favor of escapism.” I cannot imagine an American comics fan who was not exposed to the works of Kirby and Lee, or at least exposed to comics work that was influenced by them (it seems every comics artist was influenced by Kirby one way or another). So—and now comes my, perhaps a bit farfetched, conclusion: If Elliot and every screenwriter he knows was influenced by comics, every one of them was in part influenced by Kirby and Lee. So the stories we see on the big screen all over the world were written by people that grew up under the Kirby influence. Just a thought. I only can safely say so for the TV scripts I write. I was influenced by Lee/Kirby! David Safier, GERMANY I continue to be impressed with the jumbo-sized TJKC. The color job by Ladronn on the front cover was very classy; using Kirby dynamics with subtle color tones worked amazingly well. At first I was puzzled as to why you would include the Marvel Westerns among Kirby’s least known works, but then my perspective on Westerns in general is different from the masses. And, Westerns have been gone for many, many years, so maybe the Marvel Westerns do fit that category. I found the “Mighty Marvel Western Gunfighters” interesting and I liked the chronology of the piece, but I’ve always been disappointed by the fact that when anyone discusses Western comic books, they usually refer to the Marvel Western comics of the 1960s and 1970s. To me those books have always been stories that exist in some parallel universe as they are so very different from the genuine Western comics of 1948 through 1960. Kirby spans the gap between “genuine” Westerns and “Marvel” Westerns by the fact that he illustrated Black Rider Rides Again #1, one of the last Atlas Westerns. However, there were problems about what was written about that single book within the article. To paraphrase the writer... “there’s no nice way to put this, but in that book the new Black Rider did not wear a blue-grey outfit. He did not wear a white hat!” He was not at all like the Lone Ranger except that Kirby fit him with an eye mask that further distanced the new BR from the somber, menacing rangeland executioner that he was in 1953. I guess the writer had never actually seen a copy of Black Rider Rides Again #1. Oh, and it was probably a typo, but there was no Black Rider story in Gunsmoke Western #64. Atlas/Marvel worked on the inventory system in the 1950s and so Jack did additional stories for BR at that time which were not published in 1957. Two of these stories were inked by Bill Everett, a true craftsman who added much to the artwork in the way of background texture. He did not fix Kirby’s distorted anatomy, however, which resulted in Black Rider having greatly elongated arms in some panels. Holy Reed 78

Richards! This article seems to have been written based upon seeing the Marvel reprints of the 1970s rather than the actual comics of the 1950s. The original 1955 Rawhide Kid was drawn by Bob Brown, an artist who is overlooked in this history. Dick Ayers replaced Bob but in both artists’ versions the Rawhide Kid had blonde hair, never “fiery red hair.” It would also be a real stretch to suggest that Bob Brown’s Kid looked like Johnny Thunder who, in addition to a rawhide fringed jacket, wore a black shirt and yellow striped Army pants! I don’t have time to check the chronology but maybe Jack Kirby stopped drawing the Challengers of the Unknown to draw the Rawhide Kid, and Bob Brown replaced Jack on the Challs! Bill Black, Longwood, FL First of all, my congratulations for your great work. I do believe there’s enough material to write and to see about Kirby to fill a lot more issues, and I want to do my little contribution with a couple of things that maybe can fit in the “Kirby Koincidences” category— or in something that we could call “Kirby Kuriosities.” Months ago, seeing The Simpsons, I started to see some minor details which I didn’t know if they were coincidences or not. One of the characters, an one-eye-only alien, had the name of “Kang.” Something like this sounds to almost everyone as the standard way to name an alien, like “K’ngun,” “Xadok,” “Kirex,” “Ziks,” etc., but we’re not so sure, are we? And soon after, I don’t remember if it was on The Simpsons or in Futurama (the two by Matt Groening), I heard about a planet or something that was called Rigel. One, okay, but two is something to consider. Was it a way to pay tribute to The King? Then last week I saw a magazine and from the cover I could see that I was right! Of course, there is (another) homage to the cover of the FF #1. See little Maggie in the left corner and compare with Mr. Fantastic! It would be very interesting to have Groening interviewed by you, and find out if Kirby was a great influence in his life or work. I don’t know if there’s more clues in the Radioactive Man comic. I remember Bart and crew got a high-priced comic in The Simpsons, the Radioactive Man in his first appearance, and his cover was a good parody on the “Kirby’s super-hero jumping at you” type of cover— and the first pages show an origin of the hero pretty similar to the one of the Hulk. Today I see Groening as one of the too few talented creators in the American industry of cartoons, and as a man filled with nice ideas, worthy to be in the same magazine with Kirby. More: The world now, and the world that’s coming, is full of information, people, and “koincidences.” I searched on the web for images of OMAC weeks before I bought the series and read it. To my surprise Buddy Blank is not the only OMAC in this world! I use a big search engine that shows more results than most of the others, and in the first 20 or 30 I found: • Open Modular Architecture Controllers • Ontario Mortgage Action Centre • Oriental Martial Arts College • Onondaga Model Aircraft Club • Original Music Association of Calgary • OMAC, machines and services for leather industry To me the closest one to Kirby’s OMAC is the

Oriental Martial Arts College, for the action, maybe! Keep on with the fine work, and see you later. Luis Chichon, SPAIN In Kirby’s drawing of “God turning his back on mankind” (The Art of Jack Kirby and in TJKC #26), God is drawn fairly traditionally (although in typical Kirby ‘ugly’ style). But next to God is something that looks technological. Why? Does he see God in a kind of ‘Celestials’ way— i.e.: not as the Biblical supernatural God at all, but as a super-advanced spaceman? Sometimes in interviews he seemed to be at that level. (In which case, Eric Nolen-Weathington’s family tree in TJKC #31 would be correct to include the Eternals.) But usually, he thought of God in much higher terms than this. Even the Fourth World’s “Source” could never be reduced to that. So why then the technology around God? Maybe it could be because of this: The Bible itself hints that, just as our organic world is a poor shadow of what ‘heaven’ is really about, maybe technology is the same. Jack was steeped in the Jewish tradition, much of which would have consisted of telling Biblical accounts. And surely one of the most interesting to him would have been Ezekiel’s vision of God. Here, there is so much noise and machinerytype stuff that many people of the Fox Mulder persuasion have said, “This was Ezekiel seeing a UFO.” But of course that answer doesn’t fit the rest of the book. No, this was indeed what ‘supernatural’ visitations can be like (nowhere in the Bible does it say heavenly life is just gently, incorporeally floating around on clouds singing hymns all day—thank God!). So in that drawing, is Jack saying God is an alien after all? No—he’s just drawing God as best he can with hints of the ‘heavenly technology’ (whatever it is) that he has (and that Jack was so good at doing). Similarly, when Jack drew “Jacob and the Angel,” did he mean the angel was not divine at all, but an alien (à la Celestials), or was he saying he had no trouble at all envisaging divine beings like this? Or did he mean both? (Angels are usually drawn in the same poncy way that clergy are—typical of Jack to go beyond that!) Thanks for getting me thinking— again. [In #31] Rob Bryant quotes Michael Chabon talking of the “Lee-Kirby-Claremont-Cockrum-ByrneWein” version of the X-Men. Yet if you look at Neal Adams’ web site, he’s convinced the movie has retold his X-Men story. (No mention of Roy Thomas, of course!) And didn’t John Romita design Wolverine’s appearance? The list of “creators” and sub-creators just goes on and on. (None of which belittles Kirby’s foundational/pivotal role.) Looking at the Colletta and Royer versions of Thor #166, page 1: Certainly Royer, as usual, is more faithful. But Colletta has taken the opportunity to correct a glaring fault in Jack’s drawing—the helmet not fitting onto Thor’s head—and make it right. Now that isn’t an example of carelessly splashing on the ink that Colletta is notorious for (although there are plenty of examples through the rest of #166 where

Been thumbing through my old issues of Suspense, and I noticed something odd. I’ve read where, when John Romita came back to Marvel in the mid-’60s, Stan had him pencil over Jack’s layouts to “get the feel” of the “new Marvel.” According to the credits, Romita worked on the Captain America episodes in Suspense #76 and #77. Here’s the thing: The credits (and the art sure looks like it) show Romita doing full art on #76, but pencils over Kirby (with Frank Giacoia on inks) on #77. I saw that and wondered, why would John do a full issue—and then have Jack come in and “show him how” a month later? (Were the credits incorrect or not?) However, #75 and #76 was a 2-parter introducing Batroc the Leaper and Sharon Carter (then un-named). The following issue, #77, was a flashback to WWII that introduced the never-beforeshown (and then-also-unnamed) Peggy Carter. Considering Jack did layouts for Suspense #69-75 (pencils provided by Dick Ayers and George Tuska), does it seem probable the episode in #77 (with Romita) was done first, as a tryout—and then Stan (and Jack?) got the idea to introduce the sister to “the girl from Cap’s past” before they introduced Peggy in the first place? From what I’ve seen of Romita’s ’60s work, he must have “picked up” on what Stan wanted pretty quick—and that Batroc episode always looked like full Romita art to me! You guys have access to more records than me—maybe you could look into it (only with comics would I be concerned about such “insignificant” details—heehee!). When Jack reportedly complained about an inker in the ’60s who “could do better,” could he possibly have been talking about Don Heck? In Suspense #80, Don basically butchers whatever Jack had put on the paper—and he was back to full pencils this time, not just layouts as in several previous issues. I love Don’s storytelling abilities—he’s actually as “overpowering” as Jack, in his own unique way. But as an inker, he’s only a couple notches above Gil Kane (if you know what I mean). What I found interesting looking over these old books (as opposed to reprints where muddy reproduction makes it tougher to tell) was the issue (#71) where Wally Wood inked over Don. It may have been the sharpest-looking episode of “Iron Man” (until Colan came along), and yet you really have to look close to see Wally’s work! While Wood often overpowered anyone he inked, in this case, Don Heck’s penciling was the overpowering element! Wow! What a contrast—the back cover looks like a promo for Space Ghost or something—the front is almost disturbing! Shades of Angry Red Planet! (And yet, the inks themselves are so close....) Should Jack’s unpublished work be seen? OF COURSE! With the interest in Kirby these days, if anyone at DC had smarts, they’d collect all of his “unpublished” work into a single volume. Then again, I’d love to see all his “rare” stuff collected as well—so maybe both could be in one book. Like, shouldn’t every episode of Dingbats be collected together—published and unpublished? And what about The Sandman—any reprint volume should contain the “unpublished” episode as well. Kirby’s one-shot revival of Manhunter (which completely ignores and contradicts the Goodwin/Simonson revival) served as the foundation for a ton of Manhunter-related stories in years since (meaning both “contradictory” versions somehow are considered valid), mostly thanks to Steve Englehart in JLA and later, Millennium (augh!). Yet I’ve never been able to read Kirby’s single episode. Wouldn’t you think DC would have reprinted that, somewhere along the line, at least as a “tie-in”? Loved the Black Hole pages. I never did find a copy of the book that printed that adaptation. The movie was so-so; Disney

was going through some transition at the time, so the story kinda sucked (as did virtually all their 1970s films), even though, as always with them, the effects work beat out anything else at the time (including the much-ballyhooed first Star Trek film). I’m pretty sure it wasn’t listed in the film’s credits, but I’ve always believed it was Roddy McDowell who supplied the voice of “V.I.N.C.E.N.T.” Wasn’t he much more likeable that R2D2? Henry R. Kujawa, Camden, NJ TJKC #32 was terrific! Just briefly, these were the highlights for me: Tom Kraft’s Jimmy Olsen commission; pencils, unpublished and original art, particularly Mob, Dingbats, Mister Miracle, True Divorce, Devil Dinosaur, Machine Man, Black Panther, and Kamandi; Mark Evanier’s “Jack F.A.Q.s” (the Fourth World, my favorite topic—hopefully you’ll manage to squeeze out a big issue on that one); the Index update; the Sundance covers and pencils; Keith Hammond’s Marvel Westerns overview and the accompanying art; and the Annie Baron-Carvais interview. The new format is fabulous for showcasing the art, John, and I for one would pay to see more of even the stuff already printed in past issues. I think my favorite pages from Mister Miracle #9 have already put in an appearance either in TJKC or JKQ, but I’d still like to see pp. 16, 21, 22, 25 and 26 pencils at the larger size (or anything from my favorite Fourth World book, New Gods #8). In fact, “Himon” would be a good issue for another Adam McGovern/ Richard Kyle/Charles Hatfield tag team analysis. Can’t wait for the next one! Mike Hill, Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Re-reading FF #36-50 again late at night, I noted an interesting continuity note for Kirby’s Thor fans. Perhaps it has been noted before, but Thor met (fought) the Super-Skrull briefly in FF Annual #3, the wedding of Reed and Sue. When they finally met for real in the pages of Thor #142, they act as if they’ve never met, though we know that’s technically not true. Kirk Groeneveld, Athens, OH (At the end of FF Annual #3, Reed wiped out all the villains’ memories of the day’s events; maybe Thor just didn’t want to confuse the poor Super-Skrull. Come to think of it, do you remember everyone you meet at weddings?) NEXT ISSUE: We pull no punches with our slam-bang FIGHTING AMERICANS theme issue! TJKC #34 celebrates Kirby’s most hard-knuckled, all-American characters, including: That rough and tumble kid gang, the Newsboy Legion! Super-spy Nick Fury! The original “survivor,” Green Arrow! The Losers, inspired by Jack’s own WWII experiences! Plus there’s an interview with Captain America’s daddy JOE SIMON about his copyright battle over the character (with plenty of Kirby Cap pencils), and a talk with CARMINE INFANTINO about working for S&K in the 1940s! There’s also a Kirby-inked Cap front cover, and an amazing BOYS’ RANCH back cover, penciled by Kirby and inked by the legendary ALEX TOTH! ALSO: Unknown 1950s Kirby concepts, gobs of uninked Kirby pencils, and more! The issue ships in February 2002, and the submission deadline is 12/31/01.

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the infamous simplifying of background is obvious). Stan Taylor’s summing up of the Fourth World’s failure was excellent, and the fact that he listed four major, realistic components instead of one big one (especially a conspiracy theory) makes it all the more tenable. The only area not addressed that I can think of is the one raised in TJKC #6; i.e. why was the lowering of the print run, to help raise the overall percentage sold, not done? Or at least, why was this not a feasible option? I like Eric’s ‘cynical optimism’ line. Very good (and right next to a page where Jack’s nice ’n’ nasty Red Skull face was totally changed—and watered down—for the final published product). Everyone I know who has this book loves the new size. Hope you can keep it. Shane Foley, AUSTRALIA

HELP!!!!! I need low-grade reading copies, scans, or color/black-&-white xeroxes of the NEWSBOY LEGION stories from STAR SPANGLED COMICS #17, 23, 24 for next issue’s article for the KIRBY COLLECTOR! Will pay cash or trade TJKC subs. Contact John Morrow at TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Dr., Raleigh, NC 27605. 919-833-8092. KING-SIZE KIRBY KOLLECTIBLES: Comics, magazines, pins, cards, articles and more. Free list: John Prevosk, P.O. Box, 680770 Orlando, FL 32868. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Original Art Wanted! Any page, any issue! Romita, Ross Andru, Frenz, Ditko, Mooney, etc. Contact: Aaron Sultan, 919-9547111.

33 Credits:

John Morrow, Editor Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant/ Proofreader TwoMorrows, Design/Layout Tom Ziuko, Colorist Randy Hoppe, Webmaster CONTRIBUTORS: Arthur Adams • Mark Alexander Terry Austin • Tom Bierbaum Robert L. Bryant • Rich Buckler John Buscema • John Byrne Gerry Conway • Jon B. Cooke Alan Davis • Tom DeFalco Stuart Deitcher • Steve Englehart Mark Evanier • Shane Foley Frank Fosco • Mike Gartland Glen Gold • Al Gordon Tom Horvitz • Larry Houston George Khoury • Peter Koch Jim Korkis • Erik Larsen Jim Lee • Stan Lee Mark Lerer • Adam McGovern Doug Moench • Eric NolenWeathington • Jerry Ordway Carlos Pacheco • Tom Palmer George Pérez • Mark Poe John Romita • Paul Ryan David Schwartz • Bill Sienkiewicz Walter Simonson • Roger Stern Mike Thibodeaux • Roy Thomas Bruce Timm • Len Wein Marv Wolfman • Curtis Wong Tom Ziuko SPECIAL THANKS TO: Tom Bierbaum • Mark Evanier Mike Gartland • George Khoury Erik Larsen • Stan Lee Mike Thibodeaux • Bruce Timm and of course The Kirby Estate MAILING CREW: Russ Garwood • Glen Musial Ed Stelli • Patrick Varker Loston & Carolyn Wallace

Contribute & Get Free Issues! The Jack Kirby Collector is a not-for-profit publication, put together with submissions from Jack’s fans around the world. We don’t pay for submissions, but if we print art or articles you submit, we’ll send you a free copy of that issue or extend your subscription by one issue. Here’s a list of upcoming themes, to give you ideas of things to write about; but don’t limit yourself to these—we treat these themes very loosely, so anything you write may fit somewhere; and just because we covered a topic once, don’t think we won’t print more about it. So get creative, and get writing; and as always, send us copies of your Kirby art! FIGHTING AMERICANS! Looking at Jack’s rough and tumble, all-American heroes from the 1940s to today! FAN FAVORITES! What are your favorite Kirby stories, and why? Let us know what you think! Plus, a special section on KAMANDI! MR. MIRACLE & THE DEMON A split issue covering two of the longest running books Jack did for DC Comics in the 1970s! SUBMISSION GUIDELINES: Submit artwork as: 1) Color or B&W photocopies. 2) 300ppi TIFF or JPEG scans 3) Originals (packed and insured).

ORIGINAL ART Marvel/DC Wanted! 1960s-80s, Spider-Man, FF, Green Lantern, Iron Man, etc. Contact: Aaron Sultan, 919-954-7111.

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Parting Shot

(Editor’s Note: This page of Kirby pencils from FF Annual #5—showing the quartet’s reaction to learning that Reed and Sue were expecting a baby—is reproduced here in honor of the arrival of my daughter Lily. The happiness Jack exuded in these characters can’t begin to compare to the joy I felt the day she arrived, and what I continue to feel every day of my life I get to share with her. She’s just... FANTASTIC!)

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COMIC BOOK ARTIST SPECIAL EDITION An ALL-NEW comic-size extravaganza focusing on DC Comics of the 1970s:

FAWCETT COMPANION THE BEST OF FCA

Editor P.C. Hamerlinck has been delighting fans with his new FAWCETT COLLEC• All-new BRUCE TIMM cover & interview! TORS OF AMERICA (FCA) sections in • MARK EVANIER & STEVE SHERMAN on ALTER EGO, and this volume presents the • Special color cover by JOE KUBERT! best of the first 59 issues of the FCA KIRBY’S FOURTH WORLD! • All-new rare and previously-unpublished newsletter (founded in 1973)! • NEAL ADAMS on his Superman vs. art by JACK KIRBY, GIL KANE, JOE Muhammad Ali! KUBERT, WALLY WOOD, FRANK • New JERRY ORDWAY cover! • RUSS HEATH on Sgt. Rock! ROBBINS, NEAL ADAMS, and others! • Index of ALL FAWCETT COMICS • ALEX TOTH on his ’70s DC work! • STEVE DITKO on the creation of published from 1940-1953! • A BERNIE WRIGHTSON portfolio! SPIDER-MAN, ROY THOMAS on the • Behind-the-scenes looks inside the birth of THE INVADERS, and more! GOLDEN AGE FAWCETT OFFICES! (68-page comic-size limited edition, previously only available to subscribers of • Interviews and features on C.C. BECK, (160-page Trade Paperback) MARC SWAYZE, KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, COMIC BOOK ARTIST magazine) OTTO BINDER, PETE COSTANZA, ROSCOE FAWCETT, AL ALLARD, WILL PRIME8: CREATION #1 LIEBERSON, ROD REED, GINNY PROVISIERO, cast members of the A new comic book created by COMIC BOOK Captain Marvel serial and Shazam! TV ARTIST editor Jon B. Cooke, featuring: show, and others! • NEW wraparound color cover by NEAL ADAMS! • Rare and previously unpublished artwork • NEW Prime8 pin-ups by SERGIO ARAGONÉS, by BECK, SWAYZE, SCHAFFENBERGER, WALTER SIMONSON, BARRY WINDSORMAC RABOY, DAVE BERG, ALEX TOTH, SMITH, and BRUCE TIMM! BOB OKSNER, GEORGE EVANS, A.J. • Featuring story by JON B. COOKE and HANLEY, ALEX ROSS, a Foreword by ANDREW D. COOKE, and art by CHRIS SWAYZE, and more! KNOWLES, GEORGE FREEMAN, AL MILGROM, (160-page Trade Paperback) and BOB WIACEK! (64-page comic book)

WARREN COMPANION THE ULTIMATE REFERENCE GUIDE TO WARREN PUBLISHING

Editor JON B. COOKE has joined forces with historian DAVID ROACH to compile the definitive book on the black-&-white world of Warren Publishing, the publisher who created such magazines as CREEPY, EERIE, VAMPIRELLA, BLAZING COMBAT, and others. This book reprints the contents of the Eisner Award-winning magazine COMIC BOOK ARTIST #4 (completely reformatted), plus nearly 200 new pages:

• New painted cover by ALEX HORLEY! • A definitive WARREN CHECKLIST! • Dozens of NEW FEATURES on CORBEN, FRAZETTA, DITKO and others, and interviews with WRIGHTSON, WARREN, EISNER, ADAMS, COLAN & many more! (272-page Trade Paperback) Also available as a Limited Edition Hardcover (limited to 1000 copies) signed by JIM WARREN, containing custom endleaves, 16 extra pages, plus a BERNIE WRIGHTSON plate not found in the Trade Paperback edition.

KIMOTA! THE MIRACLEMAN COMPANION Learn the behind-the-scenes secrets of ALAN MOORE’S MIRACLEMAN, from his beginnings as Marvelman, to the legal and creative hurdles during the 24-issue Eclipse Comics series, and why you never saw the final NEIL GAIMAN-scripted issue! • New MARK BUCKINGHAM cover! • Intro & back cover by ALEX ROSS! • In-depth interviews with ALAN MOORE, JOHN TOTLEBEN, NEIL GAIMAN, MARK BUCKINGHAM, GARRY LEACH, MICK ANGLO, BEAU SMITH, RICK VEITCH, and others! • UNPUBLISHED ART, UNINKED PENCILS, SKETCHES, & CONCEPT DRAWINGS (including unseen art from the neverpublished #25)! • NEVER-PUBLISHED 8-page Moore/ Totleben story, “Lux Brevis”, and an UNUSED MOORE SCRIPT! A percentage of profits goes to artist John Totleben, who is battling the eye disease Retinitis Pigmentosa. (128-page Trade Paperback)

See page 75 of this issue for pricing information!

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom. TwoMorrows Publishing • 1812 Park Drive • Raleigh, NC 27605 USA • 919-833-8092 • FAX: 919-833-8023 • e-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com