Comic Book Artist #11 by TwoMorrows Publishing

CELEBRATING THE ART & LIFE OF ALEX TOTH!

No.11 Jan. 2001

$6.95

Batman © DC Comics. The Fox, Jesse Bravo © Alex Toth.

In The U.S.

INTERVIEWS • ART • APPRECIATIONS • CHECKLIST

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DRAW! #25

ALTER EGO #117

KIRBY COLLECTOR #61

COMIC BOOK CREATOR #2

BRICKJOURNAL #24

JACK KIRBY: WRITER! Examines quirks of Kirby’s wordsmithing, from the FOURTH WORLD to ROMANCE and beyond! Lengthy Kirby interview, MARK EVANIER and other columnists, LARRY LIEBER’s scripting for Jack at 1960s Marvel Comics, RAY ZONE on 3-D work with Kirby, comparing STEVE GERBER’s Destroyer Duck scripts to Jack’s pencils, Kirby’s best promo blurbs, Kirby pencil art gallery, & more!

JOE KUBERT double-size Summer Special tribute issue! Comprehensive examinations of each facet of Joe’s career, from Golden Age artist and 3-D comics pioneer, to top Tarzan artist, editor, and founder of the Kubert School. Kubert interviews, rare art and artifacts, testimonials, remembrances, portraits, anecdotes, pin-ups and miniinterviews by faculty, students, fans, friends and family! Edited by JON B. COOKE.

LEGO TRAINS! Builder CALE LEIPHART shows how to get started building trains and train layouts, with instructions on building microscale trains by editor JOE MENO, building layouts with the members of the Pennsylvania LEGO Users Group (PennLUG), fan-built LEGO monorails minifigure customization by JARED BURKS, microscale building by CHRISTOPHER DECK, “You Can Build It”, and more!

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ALTER EGO #118

ALTER EGO #119

ALTER EGO #120

LEE WEEKS (Daredevil, Incredible Hulk) gives insight into the artform, YILDIRAY ÇINAR (Noble Causes, Fury of the Firestorms) interview and demo, inker JOE RUBINSTEIN shows how he works, “Comic Art Bootcamp” with MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS, “Rough Critique” of a newcomer by BOB McLEOD, and “Crusty Critic” JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews art supplies and software! Mature readers only.

GOLDEN AGE ARTISTS L.B. COLE AND JAY DISBROW! DISBROW’s memoir of COLE and his work on CAT-MAN, art by BOB FUJITANI, CHARLES QUINLAN, IRWIN HASEN, FCA (Fawcett Collector’s of America) on the two-media career of Captain Video, MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom history, Cat-Man cover by L.B. COLE!

AVENGERS 50th ANNIVERSARY! WILL MURRAY on the group’s behind-thescenes origin, a look at its first decade with ROY THOMAS, STAN LEE, JACK KIRBY, THE BROTHERS BUSCEMA, TUSKA, ADAMS, COLAN, BUCKLER, ENGLEHART, MERRY MARVEL MARCHING SOCIETY, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, FCA, Golden Age Blue Beetle artist E.C. STONER, unused Avengers cover by DON HECK!

MARC SWAYZE TRIBUTE ISSUE, spotlighting FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America)! Salutes from Fawcett alumnus C.C. BECK and OTTO BINDER, interview with wife JUNE SWAYZE, a full Phantom Eagle story from Wow Comics, plus interview with 1950s Dell/Western artist MEL KEEFER, MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and a SWAYZE Marvel Family cover art from the 1940s!

X-MEN SALUTE! 1963-69 secrets, rare ‘60s BRAZILIAN X-MEN stories, lost ‘60s XMen “character sheet” by STAN LEE, ROY THOMAS on the 1970s revival, art and artifacts by KIRBY, ROTH, ADAMS, HECK, FRIEDRICH, and BUSCEMA—plus the MARVELMANIA fan club story, interview with Golden Age writer ED SILVERMAN, FCA, Mr. Monster, BILL SCHELLY, and JACK KIRBY’s unused X-Men #10 cover!

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BACK ISSUE #64

BACK ISSUE #65

BACK ISSUE #66

BACK ISSUE #67

BACK ISSUE #68

“Bronze Age Backup Series”! Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Metamorpho, GOODWIN and SIMONSON’s Manhunter, PASKO and GIFFEN’s Dr. Fate, “Whatever Happened To…?”, Nemesis, Rose and the Thorn, Seven Soldiers of Victory, art and commentary by CARY BURKETT, JOHN CALNAN, DICK GIORDANO, MIKE GRELL, ELLIOT S! MAGGIN, DAN SPIEGLE, cover by GRELL and JOE RUBINSTEIN.

“Bronze Age B-Teams”! Defenders issue-byissue overview, Champions, Guardians of the Galaxy, Inhumans, PETER DAVID’s X-Factor, Teen Titans West, Legion of Substitute Heroes, an all-star chatfest of Doom Patrol interviews, plus art and commentary by ROSS ANDRU, SAL BUSCEMA, KEITH GIFFEN, TONY ISABELLA, PAUL KUPPERBERG, ERIK LARSEN, GEORGE PÉREZ, BOB ROZAKIS, cover by KEVIN NOWLAN.

“Bronze Age Team-Ups”! Marvel Team-Up and Two-in-One, Super-Villain Team-Up, CLAREMONT and SIMONSON’s X-Men/New Teen Titans, DC Comics Presents, SuperTeam Family, HANEY and APARO’s Batman of Earth-B(&B), Superman/Captain Marvel smackdowns, plus art and commentary by BUCKLER, ENGLEHART, GARCÍA-LÓPEZ, GIFFEN, LEVITZ, WEIN, and a classic GIL KANE cover inked anew by TERRY AUSTIN.

“Heroes Out of Time!” Batman: Gotham by Gaslight with MIGNOLA, WAID, and AUGUSTYN, Booster Gold with JURGENS, X-Men: Days of Future Past with CHRIS CLAREMONT, Bill & Ted with EVAN DORKIN, interview with P. CRAIG RUSSELL, “Pro2Pro” with Time Masters’ BOB WAYNE and LEWIS SHINER, Karate Kid, New Mutants: Asgardian Wars, and Kang. Mignola cover.

“1970s and ‘80s Legion of Super-Heroes!” LEVITZ interview, the Legion’s Honored Dead, the Cosmic Boy miniseries, a Time Trapper history, the New Adventures of Superboy, Legion fantasy cover gallery by JOHN WATSON, plus BATES, COCKRUM, CONWAY, COLON, GIFFEN, GRELL, JANES, KUPPERBERG, LaROCQUE, LIGHTLE, SCHAFFENBERGER, SHERMAN, STATON, SWAN, WAID, & more! COCKRUM cover!

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Last-minute bits about the Community of Comic Book Artists, Writers and Editors

Coming: CBA NatLamp/Heavy Metal Special! If you just clung to reading Marvel and/or DC super-hero books back in the ’70s, you missed out on a world of good comics stuff flying in from just about every direction back in the day. Playboy was publishing Kurtzman & Elder and exploiting the pop art “coolness” of comic books; Warren introduced Eisner to a new generation and Burne Hogarth found new heights of appreciation with his coffeetable Tarzan adaptations; the skin mag Cavalier debuted Vaughn Bodé’s Cheech Wizard, underground comix exploded with talent (and just about as quickly dried-up by 1974); Last Gasp proved to be the true heir to EC Comics by showcasing the work of Rich Corben, Greg Irons, and Co.; Dan O’Neill’s Odds Bodkins reached an audience of millions through alternative newspapers; periodicals as diverse as Scanlan’s Monthly, The New York Times, The Whole Earth Catalog, Esquire, and Rolling Stone published the work of a number of comic book artists. The counter-culture flooded into the mainstream and, after comics suffered the post-Kefauver anemic, emasculated years as dull “kids’ stuff,” funnybooks were suddenly very hip and began attracting an amazing array of talent. But no publication embraced the joy of comics as well as National Lampoon, as in its heyday of the early ’70s (under the expert art direction of Michael Gross) it gave us the work of a most eclectic group of artists, including Arnold Roth, Joe Orlando, Rick Meyerowitz, R.O. Blechman, Gahan Wilson, Edward Sorel, Frank Springer, Frank Frazetta, Gray Morrow, Wayne Boring, Kelly Freas, Herb Trimpe, Rodrigues, John Romita, Ernie Colón, Alan Weiss, Randall Enos, Edward Gorey, Neal Adams, Jeff Jones, Bodé, B. Kliban, Michael W. Kaluta, Bernie Wrightson, Russ Heath, Bruce McCall, Barry Windsor-Smith, Ralph Reese, Bruce Cochran, Bruce Jones, M.K.

Brown, Don Perlin, Warren Sattler, Bobby London, Shary Flenniken, Dick Giordano, Alan Kupperberg, Larry Hama, Nick Cardy, Trina Robbins… and that’s only the first five years! Solidifying the publisher’s enthusiasm for comics, National Lampoon’s sister magazine, Heavy Metal—itself an offshoot of the French fantasy comic magazine Métal Hurlant—debuted in April 1977, exposing American readers to the brilliance of innumerable European artists, among them Moebius, Phillippe Druillet, Enki Bilal, Milo Manara, Joost Swarte, & Daniel Torres. The title also showcased such homegrown talents as Rich Corben, Charles Burns, and Drew Friedman, among others. Since CBA’s job is to examine the “good stuff” of the ’60s to the ’80s, we’d be remiss if we didn’t cover the comics material of NatLamp and Heavy Metal, and we just gotta confess we’re so excited about the idea that we plan to celebrate these pubs in our very first Comic Book Artist Annual, due this Summer from TwoMorrows. So look for a more precise announcement soon, and prepare for a double-size, perfect-bound monster CBA! Just as Ye Ed was putting this issue to bed, the master of macabre cartoons, GAHAN WILSON, gave us a call, confirming participation in a feature interview, plus (drumroll!) our fave Playboy cartoonist will be drawing a new cover for the ish! Plus, we’ll have a thorough history of the humor and science-fiction mags, interviews, rare art—all the good stuff you’ve come to expect. If you contributed to either publication and would like to join in the celebration, please give us a call. And we’re (natch) looking for any and all cool art. Also, we’re desperately seeking contact with MICHAEL GROSS, the AD who championed comics at National Lampoon… we realize you’re a bigshot movie producer now, Mr. Gross, but can ya spare a little time for us poor ol’ comics freaks? Illustration ©2000 Gahan Wilson.

The Wonder Book Considering the maligned attitude comic books have been given by American society since the 1950s’ suppression of the industry, it’s small wonder many a comics fan suffers from acute inferiority. As in love as we are with our chosen passion, perhaps the art and history of comics are not worthy of proper recognition by the “outside world.” Then along comes Michael Chabon’s glorious new novel, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, a very well-written, heartfelt book chronicling the fictional lives of a comics artist/writer partnership (some parts Siegel & Shuster, some parts Simon & Kirby), spanning the course of comics history. Sigh. Sometimes vindication comes from the “outside.” Thank you, Michael. (Random House, $26.95, ISBN #0-679-45004-1)

Charlton Spotlight Debuts Hmmm… a magazine devoted to “exploring the history of the Charlton comics group”… now, there’s an idea! And it’s about ti— hey! Wait a minute! What’s this upstart Charlton Spotlight ’zine musclin’ in on CBA territory? Why, this means war, I tell ya! But, seriously, Ye Ed was delighted to receive the other day a copy of the debut issue from CS editor & publisher, Michael Ambrose, and we heartily recommend it to aficionados of the Derby, Connecticut comics house. Appropriately, #1 features a tribute to the recently-deceased Pat Boyette with

remembrances, critical commentary, Boyette checklist and tons of art, plus a valuable listing of all the titles published by Charlton. It’s a handsomely designed and printed mag, complete with a new Tom Sutton cover and handwritten essay by Alex Toth, reminding us of a latter-day Charlton Bullseye, though it’s a tad more academic. Nice work, Ambrose & Co.! While there are no formal subscriptions, $10 U.S. will get you #1 and, when published, #2. Just send it to Argos Press, P.O. Box 4201, Austin, TX 78765-4201. Contact Michael at mikeargo@flash.net and tell ’im his bitter rival sent ya!

Mea Culpa, Evan Dorkin TWOMORROWS EXPLODES!

Not only does Ye Ed endlessly pine for the good old days of comicdom, but I’m missing the time when yours truly was the fairhaired boy at TwoMorrows Pubs. But now it seems I ain’t the boss’ favorite as everybody is getting in on the act! Look at what’s next up from my esteemed publisher: Coming in April, Mike Manley’s Draw! magazine, a “How-To” devoted to comic book artists, cartoonists, and animators—both pros and aspiring. The Best of FCA (that’s Fawcett Collectors of America), helmed by P.C. Hamerlinck, is a trade paperback collection due soon. TwoMorrows Presents, a continuing series of one-shots, just might see the light of day in 2001. And The Jack Kirby Collector is being totally revamped to tabloid-sized, on sale in January. Well, at least, Roy Thomas is giving Ye Ed some attention by compiling Alter Ego: The CBA Collection, collecting the A/E sections from the o-p CBA #1-5, plus 30 pages of new material! Thanks, Roy. At least you appreciate the brilliance of moi, right? Roy?

Dagnabbit! After Evan Dorkin and Sarah Dyer scrambled to get me promo material last ish on Evan’s recent World’s Funnest anthology, Ye Ed pulls a boner and completely neglects to include their contributions in CBA #10! Many apologies, ED & SD. Though it has been out for a little while, we implore all to seek out this wild ’n’ nutty Mr. Mxyzptlk vs. Bat-Mite “Elseworlds” story scribed by Dork and illustrated by the most diverse set o’ artists (since Streetwise, of course), including Mike Allred, Brian Bolland (whose cover is repro’d way too small here), Frank Cho, Dave Gibbons, Jaime Hernandez, David Mazzucchelli, Frank Miller, Sheldon Moldoff, Alex Ross, Scott Shaw!, Jay Stephens, Bruce Timm, Jim Woodring and many others. This “prestige format” 64-pager is officially dubbed Superman and Batman: World’s Funnest, and (hopefully) available from DC’s backlist for a mere $6.95. It’s a hoot, pal o’ mine! ©2000 DC Comics.

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NUMBER 11

Publisher

CELEBRATING THE LIVES & WORK OF THE GREAT CARTOONISTS, WRITERS & EDITORS

Editor/Designer JON B. COOKE

‘

’

JANUARY 2001

DEPARTMENTS: THE FRONT PAGE: LAST MINUTE BITS ON THE COMMUNITY OF COMIC BOOK ARTISTS, WRITERS & EDITORS On a new fanzine devoted to the Derby, Conn. publisher, Charlton Spotlight, and other stuff! ............................1

TWOMORROWS EDITOR’S RANT: ALEX TOTH—PICTURE PERFECT

JOHN & PAM MORROW

Ramblings on the subject of this very special issue and the glorious truths revealed in the artist’s work ............3

Guest “Sugar & Spike” Editor BILL ALGER

CBA REVIEW: IN WONDER OF THAT WOMAN Editor Jon B. Cooke takes a gander at Les Daniels’ latest, The Complete History of Wonder Woman ..................4

Contributing Editors ROY THOMAS JOHN MORROW

MARGINALIA: GOSSAMER WHITE, FILLED WITH FRIGHT In part two, David A. Roach concludes his look at the rise and fall of ’70s Gothic Romance comics ....................5

Associate Editors DAVID A. ROACH CHRIS KNOWLES Proofreaders JOHN MORROW ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON Cover Art ALEX TOTH Production JON B. COOKE GREAT SWAMP GRAPHICS Transcribers JON B. KNUTSON BRIAN K. MORRIS Logo Designer/ Title Originator ARLEN SCHUMER Mascot WOODY by J.D. King Issue Theme Song UKULELE LADY

ALEX TOTH—’BEFORE I FORGET’ SPECIAL SECTION FRED HEMBECK’S DATELINE: @!!?* Our Man Fred quizzes brilliant young scientist Bruce Gordon on his dark side as Eclipso!....................................7 HIS OWN WORDS: AN AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL ESSAY BY ALEX TOTH In his own irrepressible handwriting, the master artist discusses his early years as a budding professional ..........8 CBA INTERVIEW: A TALK WITH ALEX TOTH CBA talks to the renowned artist on his influences and opinions in a recent interview ......................................12 GALLERY: MUCH ADO ABOUT ALEX Rare art by the master storyteller ........................................................................................................................20 PROFESSIONAL COURTESIES: PAYING HOMAGE TO THE MASTER Joe Kubert, Walter Simonson, Jim Lee, Brian Bolland, Dave Gibbons and others pay their respects ..................30 CBA Q&A: “…SMOKE ACROSS A CLOUD”—THE TOTH METHOD Artist-to-artist, Paul Rivoche quizzes Alex Toth on the craft of continuity art ....................................................32 DEPT. OF ANAL RETENTION: ALEX TOTH—A COMIC ART INDEX Jim Vadeboncoeur shares his exhaustive—and definitive—checklist of the artist’s work ....................................46 APPRECIATION—ALEX TOTH, 1973: SUPER MENTOR Paul Power on learning from the legend..............................................................................................................53 TOTALLY TOTH: TOTH’S FORGOTTEN MAVERICK WORK A look at an Alex Toth treasure: The artist’s two-tone illustration for a 1959 TV adaptation children’s book ....54 SPECIAL SUGAR & SPIKE GIANT EXTRAVAGANZA! Our special flip section features a look at Sheldon Mayer and his most famous creation ..........................FLIP US!

COMIC BOOK ARTIST™ is published bi-monthly by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. Jon B. Cooke, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892-0204 USA • 401-783-1669 • Fax: 401-783-1287. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT the editorial office. Single issues: $6.95 ($8.00 Canada, $10.00 elsewhere). Yearly subscriptions: $30 US, $42 Canada, $54 elsewhere. First Printing. All characters are © their respective owners. All material is © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © their respective authors. ©2000 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. PRINTED IN CANADA. Cover acknowledgement: Batman ©2000 DC Comics, The Fox, Jesse Bravo ©2000 Alex Toth.

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

Jan. 2001

Editor’s Rant

Alex Toth: Picture Perfect The difficult task of articulating the brilliance of the artist’s work ous to behold, for the first or five-hundredth time. This celebration of the master is woefully short. What it doesn’t contain could fill up another half-dozen issues: A comprehensive retrospective of Toth’s entire career; detailed surveys of his 1940s and ’50s art; spotlights on his animation career; succinct analysis of his magnum opus, Bravo for Adventure; more of his handwritten essays and doodles; and perhaps an anecdotal history of his life. But I hope that this issue will shed some light on the artist. I’m especially proud to feature probably the most thorough checklist of Toth work ever published, and I’m bummed not to include enough repros of his glorious ’60s-’70s Warren and DC work. (So, kind reader, just because CBA neglects to showcase his Creepy, Eerie, Blazing Combat, Star Spangled War Stories, Hot Wheels, Witching Hour, etc., doesn’t mean you shouldn’t seek out those treasures yourself!) I hope we’ve done the artist some justice and we hope you, whether you’re a Toth fanatic or one of those who wonder what “all the fuss” is about, enjoy this heartfelt tribute to the man I consider to be America’s greatest living cartoonist, Alexander Toth. My thanks most of all to the Hungarian comic book artist for allowing us to feature him in this most eagerly-anticipated issue. I’m not the easiest—or organized—magazine editor most times, and I hope Alex will forgive this issue’s shortcomings. I also appreciate the support and contributions of the many Toth fans and CBA friends who so graciously helped us out, primarily Mark Chiarello, Paul Rivoche, Mañuel Auad, Jim Vadeboncoeur, Andrew Steven, Steve Cohen, Don Mangus, David A. Roach, Terry Beatty, Phillip Hester, Lancelot Falk, John Hitchcock, Paul Powers, Terry Austin, and Richard Rowe. (I realize I must’ve missed a few folks here but please note I appreciate everyone who helped.) And, God willing, this is not the last we’ll see of Alex Toth in the pages of CBA. With Alex’s permission, we hope to continue his great column, “Before I Forget,” and no doubt we’ll be examining other aspects of his marvelous career in the future. Keep ye eyes peeled! Sorry this is late. Happy (belated) holidays and our best to you in 2001! Look for CBA #12 in March! —Jon B. Cooke, Editor ©2000 DC Comics

Oh, boy. Ask me to give a logical analysis of why Alex Toth is one of the greatest cartoonists of all time, and you’ll quickly suspect I’m hardly perfect for that job. The only way I can explain the excellence of his work is to try and relate to you how Toth’s art makes me feel and what the man means to me. It’s the quiet things I like best in his work; hell, I’d take a delicate, sensitive Toth romance story over a rock-’em, sock-’em super-hero saga by Alex just about any day (unless, of course, it was a Black Canary tale!). Filled with nuance, subtlety, honest, truth, clarity, joy, and simplicity, his work reveals a sensitive and caring artist, uncompromising and resolute. With Alex, the story is the thing (to paraphrase the Bard). Every detail, every line, every thought in drawing must be in service to the tale being told. No fancy chicken-scratching, no over-rendered anatomy, no slick showboating. Nope. In his essays, you’ll find an oft-repeated axiom, “Simplify, simplify, simplify!”—a phrase which might be shortened to a single “simplify,” surely—and his work is true to that declaration. Spartan, concise, and deceptively simple, Toth’s work is proof that less is more and of the maximum visual impact of his minimalism. Foremost Alex loves the art form and is as smart about the field as he is in his craftsmanship. A dyed-in-the-wool comics fan, as enthusiastic today about the artistry of any number of wonderful cartoonists, be they Jack Cole, Harvey Kurtzman, Lou Fine, Noel Sickles, etc., as any passionate aficionado, Toth is a vocal advocate for appreciating the great comics work of yesterday. Of the current scene, the artist is not silent. He cherishes truth in art, and vehemently abhors dishonest work, as apt to rigorously savage any slacking cartoonist (and rake the industry over the coals for its shortcomings, while he’s at it) as he is to wax emotionally about a contemporary’s work he may admire. For me, the startling aspect of his work is an overwhelming sense of perfection whenever I first come across an hitherto unseen Toth story. Nearly every approach he takes in the work feels fresh and unique, characters’ faces are unusually unstereotypical… oh, I could go on and on, so suffice to say Toth’s work is consistently joy-

Contributors Alex Toth • Merrily Harris Mayer Lanney Mayer • Mark Chiarello Paul Rivoche • Rocco Nigro Jim Vadeboncouer Beverly Martin • David A. Roach Fred Hembeck • Don Mangus Andrew Steven • Phillip Hester Joel Thingvall • Steve Cohen David “Hambone” Hamilton Lancelot Falk • Paul Powers Charlie Roberts • Robin Snyder Al Dellinges • Joe & Frank Giella Mañuel Auad • John Hitchcock Terry Austin • Tom Ziuko Tom Field • Dylan Williams Terry Beatty • Arlen Schumer The Mad Peck • Walter Simonson Joe Kubert • Jim Lee • Tim Sale Kevin Nowlan • Dave Gibbons Howard Chaykin • Adam Hughes Brian Bolland • Al Williamson Bill Sienkiewicz • Anthony Smith Tom Stewart • Rick Roe Dedicated to

Steve Cohen

and in loving memory of

Our Dog Kirby 1994-2000

Visit CBA on our Website at: www.twomorrows.com All letters of comment, articles and artwork, please mail to: Jon B. Cooke, Editor, Comic Book Artist, P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892-0204 Phone: (401) 783-1669 • Fax: (401) 783-1287 • E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com

N E X T Jan. 2001

I S S U E

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COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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CBA Reviews

In Wonder of that Woman! And the oddly compelling story of William Moulton Marston by Jon B. Cooke

I gotta confess that I love Wonder Woman. As ticked-off as I am over the stranglehold characters and their licensing have over our industry—and the continuing neutering and dilution of the few seminal icons we can proudly boast of in super-hero comics—Diana Prince has permanent residence in this aging fanboy’s heart… and, gosh darn it, I’m in touch with my feminine side enough to admit it. But perhaps this admission should be tempered with my feeling that the heroine has rarely been depicted as I envision her to be: Not a pin-up but an ideal—a wonky, zany ideal. After H.G. Peter’s version of WW, I like Mike Sekowsky’s late-’60s revamping of the character (emulating the British TV show, The Avengers’ judo-chopping, shagadelic Emma Peel), Dick Giordano’s short-lived version of the same (written by Samuel R. Delany!), and that Trina Robbins/Kurt Busiek mini-series of 15 years or so back. (George Perez’s run was nice but almost too slick perhaps…) But it is Harry G. Peter’s delightfully absurd drawings and WW’s creator William Moulton Marston’s off-the-wall scripts which captivate me. Pure comics and delightful stuff for kids. So, needless to say, I’m ecstatic to report that Les Daniels’ latest DC tome, Wonder Woman: The Complete History, significantly

Wonder Woman: The Complete History. By Les Daniels. Book design by Chip Kidd. 208 pp. $29.95 hc. Published by Chronicle Books, San Francisco. ISBN: 0-8118-2913-8.

is Beautiful in R.C. Harvey Gordo es Guapo! Big and Gus Arriola’s new book

There are few comics historians and critics I respect and enjoy more than Robert C. Harvey, mainstay columnist for The Comics Journal and perhaps best known for his two recent books, The Art of the Funnies and The Art of the Comic Book (both subtitled “An Aesthetic History”). Bob’s insights are rarely dry and never lacking in his obvious enthusiasm and love for the subject of funnybooks, so I was delighted to receive his latest book—co-written with cartoonist Gus Arriola—Accidental Ambassador Gordo: The Comic Strip Art of Gus Arriola, just published by the University Press of Mississippi. And I was doubly tickled to see it devoted to a great comic strip I never knew existed before, Gordo, which ran in U.S. newspapers for nearly 44 years! Running between 1941 and 1985—in 270 papers at its peak—the strip (noted in the book as the “only enduring American 4

zeroes in on the Marston/Peters era and reveals astounding—and controversial—new information on the bizarre and wonderful origins of the Amazonian icon. As a friend of the author, I had followed Daniels’ progress in researching the book (always suggesting a good look at the Sekowsky era, natch, and even contributing a supposed H.G. Peter cartoon of WW in the nude; alas, an apparently faked drawing), and on finishing, he told me that, above all else, to read the first two chapters… a surprise awaits. I’ll not ruin that surprise for you, kind reader, but suffice to say, Marston, renowned inventor of the lie detector and eminent psychologist, was quite the family man, fully appreciating the ties that bind. As I play coy with the bombshell revelation in the volume’s second chapter, we’ll need to examine the other goodies: Pre-WW work of H.G. Peter (didja know the artist was over 60 years old when he first began drawing the series in 1941?); an account of Robert Kanigher’s 20-or-so-year tenure as writer/editor (including a revealing talk with Mike Esposito, inker of Ross Andru’s WW pencils for a decade); excerpts from Mark Evanier’s interview with (yes!) the late Mike Sekowsky; the trials and tribulations of televising the heroine’s adventures (didja know that during the ’60s Batmania craze, a WW comedy show was in development, written by Carol Burnett Show writers Stan Hart and Larry Siegel?); George Pérez’s revitalization of the character, and the title’s sluggish continuation to the present day. As with the writer’s two previous DC character “complete” histories, Superman and Batman, Les is joined by outstanding book designer Chip Kidd who gives us a bang-up job, exploiting such rarely-seen material as a ’40s WW syndicated strip promotional brochure, archival photos, a Look magazine spread on Marston’s lie detector, and the usual assemblage of toys, model kits, board games, animation model sheets, action fig—no, these are dolls, kids!—and esoterica that just plain looks neat. Kudos to photographer Geoff Spear for his typically beautiful job; never have yellowed, aging comics pages looked so good. What next for the Complete History team? After Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, few other DC-owned characters could likely withstand such lengthy scrutiny; Plastic Man and Captain Marvel are natural candidates. Whaddaya say, boys?

comic strip with a Mexican milieu) chronicles the life of chubby Gordo, poor Mexican bean farmer who eventually becomes a tour guide, and his many neighbors and friends (both human and animal). The magic of the strip is in Arriola’s expert characterization, sensitive technique, and (especially) the artist’s outstanding sense of design—dailies bold with blacks, Sundays daring in color use. Gordo is certainly a strip worthy of such a celebratory examination as found in this half-biography, half-collection. The space allotted here is too short to give props, but the book is a blessed addition to any collection. Loads of info, nice design, huge array of dailies, and even a color section of Sundays—muy gracias, Gus y Bob! Accidental Ambassador Gordo: The Comic Strip Art of Gus Arriola. By Robert C. Harvey and Gus Arriola. 248 pp. $25 sc. Published by University Press of Mississippi, Jackson. ISBN: 1-57806-161-X. Illustration ©2000 Gus Arriola COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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Marginalia

Gossamer White, Filled with Fright Part Two of the Rise and Fall of Gothic Romance Comics by David A. Roach Last issue, we looked at DC’s short-lived foray into the world of gothic romance but their efforts had not gone unnoticed and, in April 1973, Charlton released the first issue of Haunted Love. Subtitled “Tales of Gothic Romance,” this was a regular 32-page book very much in the style of Charlton’s thriving mystery line, with an emphasis far more on horror than romance. By 1973, Charlton was emerging from a rather fallow period and under editor George Wildman they were beginning to produce books of real individuality and distinction. Haunted Love lasted 11 issues and featured almost all of Charlton’s top creators. Initially, the comic featured one short story (usually by the reliable E-Man team of writer Nick Cuti and artist Joe Staton) and one lengthier tale, invariably written by Joe Gill (though after its sixth issue, it abandoned the longer story format altogether). Where DC stuck rigidly to a formula for its books, Haunted Love featured all sorts of stories and, as its title suggests, was more than willing to deal with the supernatural. (“Nightmare Castle” aside, the DC books stayed away from ghosts and monsters.) About half of Haunted Love’s strips dealt with ghosts of one kind or another (often the spirit of a husband or wife pining for its still-living partner), but it also dealt with werewolves, witches, and in #3’s memorable “Venice in the Fog” (by Joe Gill and Tom Sutton), featured a Jack the Rippertype character. Joe Gill’s productivity is legendary and he rarely had time to give much thought to his stories, but it’s fascinating to see throughout the life of the title certain themes emerging. Most surprising was the quantity of stories set at sea, all of which seem to involve drowning, perhaps revealing a hidden interest—or phobia— on Gill’s part. Many of the stories were also period pieces, mostly centered around the turn of the century and were often set in a European city like Paris or London, giving the artists a great opportunity to indulge in billowing dresses and misty, cobbled alleyways. Gill was also not afraid to kill off his leading characters and, on several occasions, the story’s denouement saw the lovers’ spectral forms reunited, at last, in death. During this period, Charlton was home to some of the most idiosyncratic talents in comics and most drew for Haunted Love at one time or another. The great individualist Steve Ditko was represented by two solid art jobs (#4 & 5) and Pat Boyette (#7 & 9), Fred Himes (#6), Sanho Kim (#4 & 5), and the eccentric F. Nieto (#7 & 9) all made welcome appearances. There is a train of thought that suggests Joe Staton was never better than in his early days at Charlton and the first five issues of Haunted Love were certainly enlivened by his wonderfully energetic art. One rather noticeable aspect of Staton’s art was his voluptuous women, never more so than on the cover of #4 where the focus of the picture is unmistakably on the drowning heroine’s monumental breasts (“headlights,” indeed, as the good doctor Wertham would have said). But it was Tom Sutton who dominated the comic, drawing six stories and covers of real distinction. [Look for interviews with Joe, Tom and others next ish!—Ed.] Sutton was a master of the fog enshrouded fin de-siecle city, the withered old crone and the unspeakable. And while there was none of the latter in Haunted Love, there was an awful lot of the first two. Probably his finest moment came in #11, the title’s last issue, which featured the self-written “Journey to Lost Orlaak.” A young servant girl dreams that she is Cassandra, queen of the lost city of Orlaak. While her lover is out at sea, her master tries to seduce her and, spurned, he locks her in her room where she raves about her drowned kingdom. Under hypnosis, she is revealed to be the actual Jan. 2001

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reincarnation of Cassandra and, driven by greed, her master sails off to find the city. Surprisingly, he finds her boyfriend in the middle of the ocean who, it turns out, is also a reincarnation, this time of Cassandra’s long-lost warrior protector. They all fight, the city rises up from the deep, and then drags them all down to their watery graves. Back on dry land, the servant girl mysteriously vanishes and, in the last panel, she is shown reunited with her warrior love in their underwater palace. While the story might have been fancifully implausible, Sutton’s art is terrific and his depiction of the lost city is wonderfully reminiscent of the great city ships from his Planet of the Apes strips. That issue’s cover, also by Sutton, is breathtaking and, like the last four issues of Haunted Love, fully-painted. In a vague reference to “Journey to Lost Orlaak,” it shows a nude girl swimming down through a crevice in the ocean’s floor towards a hidden golden city. She is discretely covered in air bubbles (à là Virgil Finlay) and accompanied by bizarre frog creatures. There is nothing else in comics quite like it and Sutton’s organic use of paint and subtle colors are a joy to behold. Don Newton also contributed a couple of painted covers to the title and his haunting image on #8 was impressively reminiscent of the great N.C. Wyeth. Sadly, however, like DC, Charlton found that painted covers or not, the market simply wasn’t there for a comic like Haunted Love, and in September of 1975, it was cancelled (though a Modern Comics reprint of #1 slipped out three years later). Still, it was a genre that simply would not die and, in December 1974, Martin Goodman’s Atlas/Seaboard entered the fray with Gothic Romances #1. Throughout his lengthy ownership of Marvel, Goodman had resolutely left no trend unplundered, no craze ignored. If romance comics were popular, he would bring out ten; if Mad is flying off the shelves, he would gives the kids Snafu, Crazy, Riot, Wild, and a host of others; if the Justice League is selling through the roof, let’s see if the Fantastic Four will as well. Atlas/Seaboard was effectively Goodman’s present to his son Chip, a whole publishing house for him to play with (and also a vehicle of revenge against Marvel for not making Chip its publisher), and its whole line was based on other companies’ books. Its first foray into publishing was a handful of comic magazines including Thrilling Adventure Stories and

Above: Beautiful painted cover (artist unknown) to the Atlas/Seaboard one-shot, Gothic Romances. Though technically not a comic magazine, the title did boast wonderful illustrations by many top talents of the day, including Neal Adams, Howard Chaykin, Russ Heath, Leo Summers, Ernie Colón, and others. Say, whatever happened to the great Leo Summers, anyway? Any clue? Please give CBA a call! ©2000 the respective copyright holder.

Devilina, clearly attempting to tap into Warren’s audience. By contrast, Gothic Romances was a text magazine obviously targeted at an older female readership but illustrated by comics artists (and promoted through ads in Atlas’ comics line, though quite how many Tiger Man or Planet of Vampires fans rushed out to buy it remains unclear). Like DC’s comics, Gothic Romances’ seven stories centered around handsome strangers and eerie mansions although they also dabbled with mental asylums and ritual sacrifice. None of the authors credited with these stories had any known comics connections—the names Vanessa Swynford, Caroline Rivers, and Nancy Maguire are certainly unknown to me—and there’s a strong possibility they were all pseudonyms. In any case, while the tales were decent, if unremarkable, the magazine’s real attraction was its artwork: Howard Chaykin, Ernie Colon, Harold Shull, Neal Adams, Russ Heath, and most memorably Leo Summers each

contributed a double-page illustration rendered in ink, wash or pencil. Gothic Romances never saw a second issue but presumably its very presence on the stands, however brief, was an affront to Marvel who retaliated with Gothic Tales of Love in early 1975. Sadly, for this article, this magazine is so rare that I’ve never seen a copy of either of its two issues but I believe that it was too another text and illustration title. What is clear is that it also failed to find any significant audience and with its demise the genre finally gave up the ghost (if you’ll pardon the expression). So why write about it now? For one thing, there can be few genres that can attract the interest of four different publishers and fail so comprehensively at all of them. Even Charlton’s Haunted Love, which lasted for two-and-a-half years, was cancelled for the best part of a year midway through its run. But part of what makes them so interesting is the fact that they were so unpopular and consequently so difficult to find today. Nobody bought them or kept them at the time and for over two decades shops and dealers resolutely ignored the few copies that were still left. For a period in comics that has been so thoroughly explored by fandom, it is one of the last great unexplored frontiers. It was also evidence of the confusion, experimentation and seeming anarchy that reigned in the comics world at the time, a wonderful sense of freedom that so typifies all the popular arts of the period. When else could we have seen books as diverse as Rima, Prez, Man-Thing, The Scorpion, Champion Sports, and E-Man? The gothic titles were very much a part of that creative ferment, commercial failures perhaps, but gloriously, deliriously, mad ones with occasional touches of greatness. These days, there’s a renewed interest in the obscure and unknown, and any of the 25 gothic romance comics and magazines is an expensive business, on the rare occasion when copies can be found. A near-mint copy of Dark Mansions #1, for instance, could cost over $100, putting it out of the reach of many collectors. But perhaps it shows that at long last gothic love comics have found their audience, 25 years too late.

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His Own Words

An Autobiographical Essay Alex Toth on his early New York City years

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CBA Interview

A Talk With Alex Toth CBA converses with a master of comic book art

Above: Paul Rivoche shared a ride with Alex Toth from the master’s Hollywood home to a San Diego comic convention in the early 1980s. Paul took this shot of the artist (beside Alex’s Impala rag top). Courtesy of & ©2000 Paul Rivoche.

In considering the most influential and important comic book artists of all time, Alex Toth’s name is never far from the top of anyone’s short list—indeed many of today’s industry professionals wouldn’t hesitate to call him simply the best there ever was. Few artists of his calibre contemplate and study the art form as intensely—and with such obvious love for the form—as our interview subject, as passionate (and often, angry) today as he was as one of the first true comics fans back in the late 1930s and early ’40s. CBA had the pleasure of interviewing the artist in his Hollywood home in February 2000 and Alex copyedited the transcript. Comic Book Artist: Is it fair to say that your great desire was to be a syndicated newspaper cartoonist? Alex Toth: Yes. Being a creature of my time, then, the big deal was, “God, I want to be Milton Caniff.” I didn’t discover Noel Sickles and what he did with strips until long after he’d left Scorchy Smith (for AP Features), and I found him in those little reprint pages in Famous Funnies, five tiers of much-reduced Sickles artwork. [It was]

succeeded by Bert Christman, who left the strip after a year or so for a stint at National Periodical Publications (DC) to do “The Three Aces” and “The Sandman,” and then left to become one of the first hundred AVG Flying Tiger pilots flying against the Japanese in China and Burma, and then died there in action—all this before Pearl Harbor, mind you! But, yes, it was my dream to do what Caniff, Raymond, and Foster had done, and to be an illustrator as well, because I loved what I saw in the Saturday Evening Post and Liberty, and all the other slick weekly and monthly magazines. CBA: Collier’s. Alex: And Collier’s. CBA: But you don’t regret that you toiled in a different medium? Alex: I do and don’t… as Charlie Schulz put it just before he died: “I didn’t want to let go, it was taken away from me.” Well, that’s what happened with strips (and slick magazine illustration, too!). By the time I was “ready,” they were already dying, being throttled, squeezed, and distorted, and the whole concept of hero/heroine/ adventure had been tainted, spoiled by the war. Gritty realism had shattered an awful lot of those fantasy dreams. The strip medium had changed. The Big Squeeze was on to force it out, not give it the area and respect it once had. CBA: But you were able to take your love of that and put it into the comic book medium. Alex: Well, it was a wonderful training ground. It was “on-the-job training,” is what it was. To be able to (during World War II) when the old-timers were drafted away fighting the war, and left slots open for others to draw these silly things, so I was given a chance, as a kid of 15, still in school. So it was an after school-hours thing for me, which was far better than schlepping wet bulk laundry or dry cleaning or some of the other odd delivery kid jobs I had. It was terrific, the ego thing, to see one’s name in print… my God! Who’dathunkit? But then, the appreciation for it came through the material and being paid. But still, a syndicated strip artist had a certain respected position in those days. It was a position of mystery. CBA: Also, Caniff was treated like a movie star. Alex: Well, he was very good at promoting himself, and the Chicago Tribune/New York News Syndicate helped a lot, too. Yes. It helped sell the strip to more papers. CBA: Why wasn’t Sickles received the same way? Alex: Well… from all I’ve heard, AP didn’t treat Sickles well. They cheated him when he found out how many papers… and income Scorchy Smith was bringing in, against his $125 a week (I think he finally got it up to that). In the ’30s, that was good money! The dailyonly strip was earning $1,500 a week! And he just got fed up with it. He might’ve stayed, had he been treated well, and that would be true for a lot of cartoonists and people, everywhere, in all kinds of jobs. So I missed having that goal, and reaching it, except as a “ghost” or as an assistant—the Warren Tufts thing, which was a few months, here, and there, then a brief stint on Roy Rogers, subbing for Mike Arens when he was ill. CBA: Young comic book cartoonists look at Caniff and Sickles, and COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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don’t get it, don’t understand it. They think it’s antiquated! How can they see what’s really there? Alex: Well, they probably won’t, until maybe another 10 years of living and seeing: assessing things. Because their heads are filled with the hot artist in comic books, today. They can’t see beyond admiring [Jack] Kirby and [Neal] Adams and whoever else was the hotshot 30 years, 20 years, 10 years ago, that’s as far back as they go in time, and everybody keeps regurgitating Kirby/Adams! CBA: And Miller. Alex: And Miller… well, that’s another story. But Caniff, Sickles, etc., the syndicated strips’ best pastpasters’ works are quiet compared to comic book art, storytelling, characters and whatever. It’s unfortunate that because you like chocolate, you can’t like vanilla, that you can’t appreciate other things than what you happen to be very hot about at the moment. It’s a big blind spot that young people have about their favorite artists or whatever craze they’re locked into which turns them off and on! This tunnel-vision, which I find very strange. They see only that, and nothing else! “Don’t confuse me with facts, just let me do my thing, I love this type of art, and only that type of art.” When they’re older, more mature, if they’re lucky, they’ll come to appreciate a whole century of newspaper strip art, Sunday pages and dailies, to admire, to be entertained by, to just read… the funny stuff as well as the straight! CBA: And fine art, and photography. Alex: Of course! Yes! CBA: Sickles and Caniff are grouped together so often, can you distill the difference between them? Alex: The younger, Noel Sickles, was the teacher of the older, Milt Caniff. Illustrator/”reporter” is what Sickles was. He didn’t exaggerate. He didn’t cartoon things. He played it very straight. He was an illustrator! Period! He drew beautifully, had a great eye for perspective, aerial perspective, the whole ball of wax. What he did with figures and lighting and storytelling, the movie techniques he brought into his strip! Black-&-white photography, being 95% of movies in those days, excited him, and he adapted it into his work on Scorchy Smith, using one graytone in his b-&-w art to indicate patterns, light sources showing their effects, in snow scenes, night scenes… remarkable stuff. He was brilliant! Caniff, on the other hand, was more the

cartoonist, capable of the bigfoot stuff (although Sickles had that in him, too; both of them much appreciated Roy Crane from the getgo, admired what he could do with simple lines. But, also, that marvelous caricaturist/fantasy artist, T.S. Sullivant). What turned-on Sickles must’ve turned-on Caniff, re the works of certain artists, cartoonists, painters, because Sickles was keen about impressionists— Monet, Sisley, the political cartoonist David Low, who had lush, wonderful lines and spotting rich blacks, way of drawing and staging! His political cartoons were works of art! Sickles was strongly influenced by Sullivant’s distortions, realistic and fantastic, at once. Plus the influence of the Simplicissimus German artist-caricaturist-illustrator Thony and Blix, Gulbransen. He took it all in. Some of it infected Caniff’s work, echoes of that influence through Sickles. But Caniff was aware of self-promotion, and how important it would be for a strip, like Terry and the Pirates! I don’t know what he may have done to promote Dickie Dare for AP Features, ungenerous with its money or their own promotional material?! But he was helped by deep pockets of the Chicago Tribune/New York News Syndicate, when he got Terry, and they made the most of it. I’ve got clips from Mini-Cam Photography, a little slick magazine of World War II, and it’s spread with lots of photographs of Milt in Chinatown, New York, with his models for the Dragon Lady, Burma, and Pat Ryan. How he took his own photographs with his Rollie twin-lens reflex camera, at his High Torridge home in New City, New York. There was an issue of a fashion magazine, Vogue or Harper’s Bazaar, a big spread. Some fashion designer had used Caniff’s drawings of evening-gowned women—from his strip, literally—made the gowns for models who looked like his characters! How Caniff drew them, and the gowned photo models! It was

Above: For Al Dellinges’ fondlyrecalled Near Mint magazine, Alex composed this tribute to the legendary influential cartoonist, Noel Sickles. Courtesy of Al Dellinges. ©2000 Alex Toth. Below: We confess to be featuring very little of Toth’s 1940s and ’50s artwork but we’d be loathe to forget his fine rendition of the Emerald Crusader in this panel from All-American Comics #92. ©2000 DC Comics.

Left: Alex labeled this drawing “The Cord that binds,” recalling both his devotion to aviation and the superbly designed 1937/38 Cord automobile (the latter so nicely celebrated by the artist in his opus, “The Case of the Curious Classic,” in Hot Wheels #5, a tale Alex also wrote). From the cover of APA #23. ©2000 Alex Toth. Jan. 2001

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Above: Associate Editor David A. Roach sent in this fine example of Alex Toth’s approach to romance comics, stating it’s “a real stunner,” and speculating that the Atlas Love Romances #49 tale is “possibly left over from Standard.” ©2000 Marvel Characters, Inc.

great fun! Done with quality, and respect! Caniff—throughout his career—was very adept at self-promotion, with the assistance of the syndicate behind him. But Sickles had other fish to fry, after his experience with AP (with a strip that I’m sure he enjoyed doing), he went off into advertising… of course, that evolved into doing those Mr. Coffee Nerves Sunday page comic ads with Caniff, using their combined alias, “Paul Arthur” (their middle names), and other ad work on his own—halftone, line, color, and he wound up doing ghost work for Caniff on Terry, because Caniff’s phlebitis gave him trouble, perhaps due to malaria (or not) from his Florida days. Sickles was very handy, thank God, to jump in when he did. Caniff had other people on call to assist; Alfred Andriola, Charles Raab, Ray Bailey in his home studio… there was Frank Engli, Left: Cover detail from Toth’s “Deep Dimension 3-D” duo-tone cover for Lev Gleason’s Crime and Punishment #66. Courtesy of Manuel Auad. ©2000 the respective copyright holder.

master letterer and colorist of the Sunday engraver color guides. When Caniff didn’t do them! There was a secretary—I forget her name. But anyway, he was well set-up in his home studio. CBA: But of the two, Sickles’ work “spoke” to you more, appealed more. Alex: Yes. I always called his work “reportáge,” because he had a matter-of-fact way of setting things down, which to me, was damn bare-faced honest. He very rarely pulled tricks, and if he did—and I caught him at it—he’d failed, and when he failed, he failed big. He made it very obvious when he failed, whether it was just a throwaway, or whether he just guessed wrong. CBA: But his batting average was pretty damn good. Alex: Oh, yes, excellent. CBA: In your art, especially the romance work, you were very influenced by what was going on in illustration at the time, Al Parker, Whitmore, John Whitcomb… what excited you about that stuff? Alex: First of all, romance was very special. It dealt with emotions in a different way than the slam-bang adventure stuff. There are a lot of things under the surface… a line of dialogue could say “this,” but the expression of the person would say “that.” Maybe only the camera/us/the reader’s viewpoint would reveal the truth when she said, “I love you, too, George.” Her face, eyes were saying something else! And the reader knows that, but “George” doesn’t! He can’t see that! So, there were all of these little nuances of line readings, acting, reacting, interpretation, layers of character personality, integrity, etc., people bouncing off each other… that was suddenly very grown-up, as opposed to the slam-bang… It was a whole new ballgame, and it forced me to really pay attention, and look, learn and listen. I was lucky to have good scripts. The best romance writing was by Kim Aamodt, really good! I looked for ways to put more into interpreting ping-pong dialogue scenes, the give-and-take between a guy and a gal, or gal and boss, and not reduce it to talking heads. Though a lot of it did wind up being close-ups. I was enjoying characterizations, overdoing it! Not as subtly as I might’ve. CBA: Well, close-ups in movies were different, a close-up was used for real impact. Alex: Exclamation points, yes. I grew up with radio drama and comedy and movies, with the sounds, colorations, characters. Movies, a once-a-week thing, if that, so radio plus reading, formed my own “pictures” of how characters might look. Our writers’ descriptions of scenes were brief, which I liked, and other times, too brief, where I would’ve appreciated a firmer nudge in the right direction. Emotional drama, as opposed to physical, suddenly was center-stage, and I wanted to do it right. Plus, I enjoyed doing the stylish thing, welldressed men and women. Inspired by Parker, Whitcomb, plus fashion magazines to bone-up on the latest thing, to smartly dress men and women; it was fun! Plus, Hollywood was the great fashion-setter, movies! Great stars dressed in their best in those smart romantic comedies or dramas of the ’30s, ’40s, and ’50s, before everything went sour. There was a lot more to telling a story, without physical action to lean on, to make it dynamic, to draw the interest of our female readers. Using dramatic tricks, close-ups, poses, and attitudes, expressions, to give the story more punch, without overdoing it. It was great fun, to learn anew. You think you know enough, but you don’t. You must open up; let it in. CBA: And learn by doing it. Alex: Yes. To be receptive, admit what you don’t know, which few are willing to do. Start from square one. Again! If I hated a script, I couldn’t send it back to the editor. I was capable of doing a “throwaway” job, to just “get it out,” not see it anymore! But, if really interested in doing my very best, not repeat myself, not fall back on easy ways out, because this script warranted better-than-average effort, I’d give 110%. Via a lot more erasing, than drawing! CBA: Then how come your originals are so clean? There’s not a lot of white-out, not lot of heavy erasing. Alex: There came a time when I had to unlearn many things. CBA: You were talking about silhouettes [off-tape]. Alex: First of all, the strongest graphic image you can have. Positive, negative! CBA: The ultimate simplification. COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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Alex: Exactly! The value of it, World War II: We had these images printed everywhere, three-views of German, Japanese aircraft; we had black Bakelite models of these aircraft. Government property, U.S. Army Air Corps, Navy, Marine Corps issue got into the civilian population, so we all knew what German Dornier Bombers looked like, and a Junkers, and Messerschmitt-109s looked like, and a Spitfire, and a Hurricane…. CBA: Just from the outline. Alex: Yes. That’s all you needed. CBA: It’s the same with characters, everybody has a different… you should be able to tell Superman from Captain Marvel. Alex: The beauty of it, of course, “gag” characters lend themselves to this so much better than straight, with the exception of something like Batman, it can be used in so many dramatic ways, as you see in movies, TV, illustration, and comics. Very effective, to know where and when to use it. To establish depth in a panel, a solid black as a “local color,” or drop shadow, establish planes of depth, from foreground to background. To create mysterious effect, hide anything, reveal anything, with it. It’s a very potent graphic device. CBA: Another device is color, but you never really colored your own work. Why is that? Alex: The business was not set up that way, then. First of all, I spent my time 3,000 miles away from New York, where the action was. Mailing stuff in and out with my “color notes” all over the margins of my pages. As I could hear dialogue spoken, when I penciled/inked it, or was writing it, to illustrate it. I could hear the way it should be said by the woman, the man, the kid, whatever. So, too, color was important. I wanted to get my two cents in, writing color notes, which, I was told, long after the fact, nobody paid attention to, because they were trimmed off by the engraver for his line shots… The colorists didn’t see them. I wanted to do coloring, in spite of the fact I was told I was colorblind… color insensitive. CBA: Are you colorblind? Alex: To light tints of blues, grays and greens, color confusion. CBA: A lot of illustrators and cartoonists are colorblind. Alex: I understand that. CBA: Mort Drucker’s colorblind, John Byrne, Chaykin. Alex: Those who work in color all the time, who confess to being colorblind, that’s a rarity. CBA: When did you start doing your own lettering? And why? Was it for control? Alex: When I visited dear old Shelly Mayer, a 1,000 years ago, at 225 Lafayette Street, at Gaines Publishing [All-American Comics], he said, “Kid, learn to do it all, to letter. The more you do of your own work and less you rely on somebody else, the better that work is going to be.” CBA: Did that include writing? Alex: He didn’t stress that, dammit, and I wish he had! I came to writing much too late! And I still can’t call what I did “writing.” I could not write “on demand,” continually! Or I’ve had been doing it all these years, sitting here, out of the business, because I could not write stories that pleased me! I learned how, but backed into that, my little one-pagers here, two-pagers. CBA: Well, you wrote some of your Warren stories, too. Alex: That came later. CBA: Some people think the best comics are written and illustrated by the same person Do you agree? Alex: Exactly. CBA: Really? Alex: Yes. There’s something about having that total vision, control… it sounds very lofty and pretentious; we’re just talking about comic book work here. Charles Schulz sat there, didn’t make a big deal of it, just happened to do it all himself. Didn’t need studio assistants, aides, gag suppliers, it was all so personal, clear, and clean, all him. The artwork was the least of it, somehow, because he kept building his little world, and his artwork was minimal, simple, formulaic, predictable, but he pulled many surprises out of the hat. Kept creating characters that were just cuter than hell, terrific! He was a great letterer, by the way, and not been given credit, but he lettered very well. A nice, clean style, very legible, it was smart, and it fit into the rest of it. That’s the important! Jan. 2001

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

CBA: Would you say being an artist is really a solitary life? Alex: It demands a selfishness, a self-orientation of interest—if you’re serious about what you’re doing! Some guys in the business never took it seriously. They could… when the five o’clock whistle blew, leave the plant like a boilermaker, that’s how much it meant to them, a way of making a buck. I never looked at it that way. It was always with me. And it reminds me, again, of Charlie Schulz. They interviewed his wife, who said, “I know, no matter where we go, whether we’re in Europe, whether we’re driving to Arizona, or shopping, this or that, I know where his mind is. He’s still working, he’s back there at the drawing board and he’s still writing that gag or drawing that panel.” It’s a selfish mistress. CBA: Did it have a negative effect on your life? Alex: Oh, yes. The more serious I got about it, the more it pulled me away from a wife—marriage, my kids, family, social events—so I don’t have a good track record. CBA: You’re not a big supporter of painted comics. Alex: No. CBA: And I know why, so we don’t need to get into that. Alex: Are you sure you know the reason why? CBA: Yeah, because it’s not comics, it’s illustration. Alex: No! Wrong! Mainly wrong! It could be comics if those who know how to paint also knew how to tell a story! Who knew what pacing was, and didn’t just jam a lot of pretty pictures together

Above: Cover for 1974’s, CPL: Contemporary Pictorial Literature #11. Courtesy of Bob Layton/CPL Gang. ©2000 Alex Toth. Below: Toth’s All-American Western #113 cover, featuring Johnny Thunder. Courtesy of Manuel Auad. ©2000 DC Comics.

Above: Yow! Previously-unpublished “Johnny Thunder” pencils by Alex Toth. This arrived courtesy of Frank Giella, and his father, frequent Toth inker, Joe Giella. Thanks, guys! Art ©2000 Alex Toth. Johnny Thunder ©2000 DC Comics.

into a page, pages, and call it a story, continuity! It ain’t! CBA: What did you think of Harvey Kurtzman? Alex: Brilliant! A “solo act” who, for some reason, needed a troupe behind, under, around him. He would’ve been best left alone. He should’ve had a newspaper strip 1,000 years ago. As soon as his Mad thing fell apart, he should’ve jumped right into a strip, as opposed to the cockamamie years with Hefner, Trump, Humbug, and all other stuff which didn’t work. He was deserving of being a very successful newspaper gag cartoonist—whatever he wanted to do, but do it all himself! Not have to deal with “committee-think” and talk and impressing his way on anybody else’s. Do it solo. I told him that when we bumped into each other in Vegas, in ’70 or ’71? Put up as house-guests by University of Nevada Las Vegas personnel in their home. We hadn’t talked to each other since that 1952 incident, on that “Sabrejet” job, because I dared to change one or two panels! I told him then, “Harv, I won’t be dictated to by you or anyone else! I respected you, and went through the “Dying City” with you, “Thunder-Jet” with you, climbed all over the planes on Republic’s production line, made my sketches, took my notes, I was a good boy, for $28 a page (meanwhile getting $40 at DC). I did it out of respect and affection for you, and for the subject matter. I can’t make a living or a career out of working over your roughs and layouts, being locked-in so tight, and not being allowed to think, for me, to change this, do that,” because everything was already lettered, borders inked in, before you got the pages. It was all done except for the art. “Just pencil in and follow directions.” Follow the yellow brick road! CBA: Do you think he squandered a big chunk of his career on “Little Annie Fanny”? Alex: I hated it! Here, you’ve got this fat magazine, loaded wall-towall, with beautiful, nubile women… round, plump, full-bosomed

women, fannies, thighs, the works… What the Hell do you need “Little Annie Fanny” for? To me, it was like “gilding the lily,” what’s the point?! I never understood it. And it became a very complex production problem, I told you about the multiple tissues of vellum overlays, each one color-coded, as it went through the Hefner “editing process,” change this, change that… good God Almighty! I would’ve just tore everything up and thrown it at them, and told them to go to Hell! Either you do it, or I do it, we can’t both do it! But that’s exactly what Harvey did live with, all those years he was connected. It paid very well, but he had to spend that money, paying Frazetta, Elder… God, everybody in the world helping him do that damn thing. So many people. CBA: You’re a big Frank Robbins fan. Alex: I commented on Frank’s work in Manuel Auad’s Toth book, and also in Comic Book Artist, about being the wrong guy to do The Shadow and Batman. I loved his simpler Scorchy Smith. He shaped-up fast on that strip. He came in knowing nothing about strip technique when he took that over, taught himself, studied everybody—Sickles, his predecessor on that strip, then Bert Christman, then Robert Storm briefly, and then BANG! in came Frank, who stayed with it until ’43, ’44, left to start his Johnny Hazard for King Features. CBA: You really liked Johnny Hazard? Alex: I liked Scorchy more. CBA: Why? Alex: Because he tightened-up, slicked-up, so much on Hazard… He was loose, fast and loose on Scorchy, and simple. He got very shiny, glitzy, overdoing it to make King happy, to earn his keep. Not necessary! Didn’t have to do that. It wasn’t until years later, that he relaxed that a bit, but only on his Sunday pages. The daily remained quite “tight.” But his last two years on Scorchy Smith were just great. I wish I had a collection of that. There’s a Russian sequence he did in those last years, with the Russian and Nazi ski troopers at night, snow scenes, stark black-&-white. He did a helluva job, beautiful stuff, simple, stark, design of the panels, four across, in those days, just great! I had clips of that sequence and lost it in my travels, from East to West and back and could not find a source to get that sequence back again. Gorgeous work in there! Him at his best. Wonderful. It’s why he didn’t need glitzy schtick, habits formulaic, on Hazard. CBA: You still keep up with the animation world. Alex: I try. CBA: What have you seen that you liked? Iron Giant? Alex: Iron Giant was marvelous, and this Rubén Procopio sent me a copy of Mulan, which I didn’t expect to like, but there were a lot of very good parts in it. And I got a print of Pinocchio, which I hadn’t seen in many years. I enjoyed that, and 101 Dalmatians animated, which I always liked. CBA: Wallace and Grommit? Alex: Well, that’s something else again, totally different. Apples and watermelons. Wonderful, that one… he did three with those COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

Jan. 2001

characters, but that second one—“The Wrong Trousers”—was absolute perfection! Every frame advanced the story! CBA: You did a lot of experimentation with your Warren comics. Why was this period so fertile in that respect? Alex: I liked being asked to do black-&white comics that the tone would be accepted, whether wash tones or Zip-A-Tones, whatever. I didn’t like the horror aspect, the vampires. CBA: Warren is a pretty notorious character…. Alex: I don’t know why, because he was decent with me and my late wife, a pretty damn good judge of character—of course, she screwed up with me—but I remember taking her to meet Jim Warren at the Hernando’s Hideaway, at the Beverly-Wilshire Hotel, we sat, drank, talked, and kibitzed all night long, at a little table, and was delighted with him, giggled her way through the whole evening, she was a wonderful giggler! If you heard her across the room, you wanted to giggle, too! Anyway, she loved the guy, so that was the seal of approval. We never really bumped heads, he and I, dealing via phone calls and letters, coast-to-coast. He was decent, fair. I don’t think I got any special treatment, and I was the auslander, the guy way out here in the boonies of California! I couldn’t do anybody any harm, certainly, and I wasn’t involved in any internal politics like maybe others, so it was just… fun! CBA: You’re a voracious reader. Is it mostly non-fiction, biography? Alex: Mostly, yes. As a kid, I read a lot of science-fiction and comics and pulp magazines, but I got more and more into fact… used to haunt the public library. Bios and autobiographies fascinate—the real deal, real people, real events, themes, different interpretations of them by those involved who write different books about them. I love to read about different disciplines, in the arts, writing, whether it’s writing novels, short stories, comic strips, movies, TV, animation. I love to read what writers write about writing. I was a subscriber to Writer’s Digest for many years, I loved the magazine and all the tips that all the writers gave to me on how to do it. I can’t remember one of them, and I don’t think they ever did me any good. As much as I loved the magazine and the tips! And I appreciated them, but I could never put anything to use! I have to do it my own way, my seat-of-thepants way! My stupid, thick-headed, Hungarian way! There was no formula. I loved all their formula tricks, but I couldn’t do it! And then, very late, Neil Simon, confessed that he sits down before a blank page, doesn’t know where he’s going, has no idea, hasn’t pre-planned a thing, no first draft, second draft of anything. He sits and he starts to write, anything, whatever comes into his head, he writes, until something clicks and he’s off to the races. From then on, it’s easy for him. He “hears” the dialogue, and writes it, bounces from theme to theme. So, he writes without a plan, and that’s what Milt Caniff said about Noel Sickles doing Scorchy Smith. He just made it up as he went along, day by day, and his defense was, “Well, if I don’t know what the Hell’s going to happen tomorrow, how will the reader know? So it’ll be more entertaining for both of us!” Caniff said, “You know, there’s a thing called three-act play construction, and this is how it’s done,” and ingrained that into Sickles’ head, but in the end, Caniff Jan. 2001

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

“script-doctored” for Sickles. CBA: That’s how you wrote Jesse Bravo, though, it really flowed. You didn’t structure it. Alex: I had written some bits and pieces of Bravo. Didn’t have the “full picture,” and then, when I sat down, in ’75, to do that first 12page episode, somehow, it all started to work. But as I said, it was bad times, my wife was in and out of the hospital, with three emergency surgeries that year, it was terrible. Every morning, I would spend half my day at the hospital. So, I was stealing sleep time and other time to try to write and draw. I’d start by re-reading what I’d done from page one, right up… If I realized yesterday’s work was atrocious, I’d tear it up and start over again from that point. That’s the way it went, was backing and filling all the way to the bloody end, 12 pages at a time until done.

Below: Due to space considerations we’ve had to skip over a multitude of Alex’s 1940s and ’50s material but we wanted to be sure to include this handsome page from 1959’s Four Color #1024, featuring Toth’s adaptation of the Disney film, Darby O’Gill and the Little People. ©2000 Walt Disney.

THE ORIGINAL GOES DIGITAL!

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The forerunner to COMIC BOOK CREATOR, CBA is the 2000-2004 Eisner Award winner for BEST COMICS-RELATED MAG! Edited by CBC’s JON B. COOKE, it features in-depth articles, interviews, and unseen art, celebrating the lives and careers of the great comics artists from the 1970s to today. ALL BACK ISSUES NOW AVAILABLE AS DIGITAL EDITIONS FOR $3.95 FROM www.twomorrows.com!

TwoMorrows Publishing 10407 Bedfordtown Drive Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 E-mail: store@twomorrowspubs.com

Order online at www.twomorrows.com COMIC BOOK ARTIST COLLECTION, VOLUME 3 Reprinting the Eisner Award-winning COMIC BOOK ARTIST #7-8 (spotlighting 1970s Marvel and 1980s indies), plus over 30 NEW PAGES of features and art! New PAUL GULACY portfolio, MR. MONSTER scrapbook, the story behind MARVEL VALUE STAMPS, and more! New MICHAEL T. GILBERT cover! (224-page trade paperback) $24.95 • ISBN: 9781893905429

#3: ADAMS AT MARVEL #4: WARREN PUBLISHING

#5: MORE DC 1967-74

#1: DC COMICS 1967-74

#2: MARVEL 1970-77

Era of “Artist as Editor” at National: New NEAL ADAMS cover, interviews, art, and articles with JOE KUBERT, JACK KIRBY, CARMINE INFANTINO, DICK GIORDANO, JOE ORLANDO, MIKE SEKOWSKY, ALEX TOTH, JULIE SCHWARTZ, and many more! Plus ADAMS thumbnails for a forgotten Batman story, unseen NICK CARDY pages from a controversial Teen Titans story, unpublished TOTH covers, and more!

STAN LEE AND ROY THOMAS discussion about Marvel in the 1970s, ROY THOMAS interview, BILL EVERETT’s daughter WENDY and MIKE FRIEDRICH on Everett, interviews with GIL KANE, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH, JIM STARLIN, STEVE ENGLEHART, MIKE PLOOG, STERANKO’s Unknown Marvels, the real origin of the New X-Men, Everett tribute cover by GIL KANE, and more!

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#6: MORE MARVEL ’70s #7: ’70s MARVELMANIA

NEAL ADAMS interview about his work at Marvel Comics in the 1960s from AVENGERS to X-MEN, unpublished Adams covers, thumbnail layouts for classic stories, published pages BEFORE they were inked, and unused pages from his NEVER-COMPLETED X-MEN GRAPHIC NOVEL! Plus TOM PALMER on the art of inking Neal Adams, ADAMS’ MARVEL WORK CHECKLIST, & ADAMS wraparound cover!

Definitive JIM WARREN interview about publishing EERIE, CREEPY, VAMPIRELLA, and other fan favorites, in-depth interview with BERNIE WRIGHTSON with unpublished Warren art, plus unseen art, features and interviews with FRANK FRAZETTA, RICHARD CORBEN, AL WILLIAMSON, JACK DAVIS, ARCHIE GOODWIN, HARVEY KURTZMAN, ALEX NINO, and more! BERNIE WRIGHTSON cover!

More on DC COMICS 1967-74, with art by and interviews with NICK CARDY, JOE SIMON, NEAL ADAMS, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, MIKE KALUTA, SAM GLANZMAN, MARV WOLFMAN, IRWIN DONENFELD, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, GIL KANE, DENNY O’NEIL, HOWARD POST, ALEX TOTH on FRANK ROBBINS, DC Writer’s Purge of 1968 by MIKE BARR, JOHN BROOME’s final interview, and more! CARDY cover!

Unpublished and rarely-seen art by, features on, and interviews with 1970s Bullpenners PAUL GULACY, FRANK BRUNNER, P. CRAIG RUSSELL, MARIE and JOHN SEVERIN, JOHN ROMITA SR., DAVE COCKRUM, DON MCGREGOR, DOUG MOENCH, and others! Plus never-beforeseen pencil pages to an unpublished Master of Kung-Fu graphic novel by PAUL GULACY! Cover by FRANK BRUNNER!

Featuring ’70s Marvel greats PAUL GULACY, JOHN BYRNE, RICH BUCKLER, DOUG MOENCH, DAN ADKINS, JIM MOONEY, STEVE GERBER, FRANK SPRINGER, and DENIS KITCHEN! Plus: a rarely-seen Stan Lee P.R. chat promoting the ’60s Marvel cartoon shows, the real trials and tribulations of Comics Distribution, the true story behind the ’70s Kung Fu Craze, and a new cover by PAUL GULACY!

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#10: WALTER SIMONSON

#11: ALEX TOTH AND SHELLY MAYER

#8: ’80s INDEPENDENTS

#9: CHARLTON PART 1

#12: CHARLTON PART 2

Major independent creators and their fabulous books from the early days of the Direct Sales Market! Featured interviews include STEVE RUDE, HOWARD CHAYKIN, DAVE STEVENS, JAIME HERNANDEZ, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, DON SIMPSON, SCOTT McCLOUD, MIKE BARON, MIKE GRELL, and more! Plus plenty of rare and unpublished art, and a new STEVE RUDE cover!

Interviews with Charlton alumni JOE GILL, DICK GIORDANO, STEVE SKEATES, DENNIS O’NEIL, ROY THOMAS, PETE MORISI, JIM APARO, PAT BOYETTE, FRANK MCLAUGHLIN, SAM GLANZMAN, plus ALAN MOORE on the Charlton/ Watchmen Connection, DC’s planned ALLCHARLTON WEEKLY, and more! DICK GIORDANO cover!

Career-spanning SIMONSON INTERVIEW, covering his work from “Manhunter” to Thor to Orion, JOHN WORKMAN interview, TRINA ROBBINS interview, also Trina, MARIE SEVERIN and RAMONA FRADON talk shop about their days in the comics business, MARIE SEVERIN interview, plus other great women cartoonists. New SIMONSON cover!

Interviews with ALEX TOTH, Toth tributes by KUBERT, SIMONSON, JIM LEE, BOLLAND, GIBBONS and others, TOTH on continuity art, TOTH checklist, plus SHELDON MAYER SECTION with a look at SCRIBBLY, interviews with Mayer’s kids (real-life inspiration for SUGAR & SPIKE), and more! Covers by TOTH and MAYER!

CHARLTON COMICS: 1972-1983! Interviews with Charlton alumni GEORGE WILDMAN, NICOLA CUTI, JOE STATON, JOHN BYRNE, TOM SUTTON, MIKE ZECK, JACK KELLER, PETE MORISI, WARREN SATTLER, BOB LAYTON, ROGER STERN, and others, ALEX TOTH, a NEW E-MAN STRIP by CUTI AND STATON, and the art of DON NEWTON! STATON cover!

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#13: MARVEL HORROR

#14: TOWER COMICS & WALLY WOOD

#15: 1980s VANGUARD & DAVE STEVENS

#16: ATLAS/SEABOARD COMICS

#17: ARTHUR ADAMS

1970s Marvel Horror focus, from Son of Satan to Ghost Rider! Interviews with ROY THOMAS, MARV WOLFMAN, GENE COLAN, TOM PALMER, HERB TRIMPE, GARY FRIEDRICH, DON PERLIN, TONY ISABELLA, and PABLOS MARCOS, plus a Portfolio Section featuring RUSS HEATH, MIKE PLOOG, DON PERLIN, PABLO MARCOS, FRED HEMBECK’S DATELINE, and more! New GENE COLAN cover!

Interviews with Tower and THUNDER AGENTS alumni WALLACE WOOD, LOU MOUGIN, SAMM SCHWARTZ, DAN ADKINS, LEN BROWN, BILL PEARSON, LARRY IVIE, GEORGE TUSKA, STEVE SKEATES, and RUSS JONES, TOWER COMICS CHECKLIST, history of TIPPY TEEN, 1980s THUNDER AGENTS REVIVAL, and more! WOOD cover!

Interviews with ’80s independent creators DAVE STEVENS, JAIME, MARIO, AND GILBERT HERNANDEZ, MATT WAGNER, DEAN MOTTER, PAUL RIVOCHE, and SANDY PLUNKETT, plus lots of rare and unseen art from The Rocketeer, Love & Rockets, Mr. X, Grendel, other ’80s strips, and more! New cover by STEVENS and the HERNANDEZ BROS.!

’70s ATLAS COMICS HISTORY! Interviews with JEFF ROVIN, ROY THOMAS, ERNIE COLÓN, STEVE MITCHELL, LARRY HAMA, HOWARD CHAYKIN, SAL AMENDOLA, JIM CRAIG, RIC MEYERS, and ALAN KUPPERBERG, Atlas Checklist, HEATH, WRIGHTSON, SIMONSON, MILGROM, AUSTIN, WEISS, and STATON discuss their Atlas work, and more! COLÓN cover!

Discussion with ARTHUR ADAMS about his career (with an extensive CHECKLIST, and gobs of rare art), plus GRAY MORROW tributes from friends and acquaintances and a MORROW interview, Red Circle Comics Checklist, interviews with & remembrances of GEORGE ROUSSOS & GEORGE EVANS, Gallery of Morrow, Evans, and Roussos art, EVERETT RAYMOND KINSTLER interview, and more! New ARTHUR ADAMS cover!

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#18: 1970s MARVEL COSMIC COMICS

#19: HARVEY COMICS

#20: ROMITAs & KUBERTs #21: ADAM HUGHES, ALEX #22: GOLD KEY COMICS & examinations: RUSS MANNING ROSS, & JOHN BUSCEMA Interviews & Magnus Robot Fighter, WALLY WOOD &

Roundtable with JIM STARLIN, ALAN WEISS and AL MILGROM, interviews with STEVE ENGLEHART, STEVE LEIALOHA, and FRANK BRUNNER, art from the lost WARLOCK #16, plus a FLO STEINBERG CELEBRATION, with a Flo interview, tributes by HERB TRIMPE, LINDA FITE, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH, and others! STARLIN/ MILGROM/WEISS cover!

History of Harvey Comics, from Hot Stuf’, Casper, and Richie Rich, to Joe Simon’s “Harvey Thriller” line! Interviews with, art by, and tributes to JACK KIRBY, STERANKO, WILL EISNER, AL WILLIAMSON, GIL KANE, WALLY WOOD, REED CRANDALL, JOE SIMON, WARREN KREMER, ERNIE COLÓN, SID JACOBSON, FRED RHOADES, and more! New wraparound MITCH O’CONNELL cover!

Joint interview between Marvel veteran and superb Spider-Man artist JOHN ROMITA, SR. and fan favorite Thor/Hulk renderer JOHN ROMITA, JR.! On the flipside, JOE, ADAM & ANDY KUBERT share their histories and influences in a special roundtable conversation! Plus unpublished and rarely seen artwork, and a visit by the ladies VIRGINIA and MURIEL! Flip-covers by the KUBERTs and the ROMITAs!

ADAM HUGHES ART ISSUE, with a comprehensive interview, unpublished art, & CHECKLIST! Also, a “Day in the Life” of ALEX ROSS (with plenty of Ross art)! Plus a tribute to the life and career of one of Marvel’s greatest artists, JOHN BUSCEMA, with testimonials from his friends and peers, art section, and biographical essay. HUGHES and TOM PALMER flip-covers!

Total War M.A.R.S. Patrol, Tarzan by JESSE MARSH, JESSE SANTOS and DON GLUT’S Dagar and Dr. Spektor, Turok, Son of Stone’s ALBERTO GIOLITTI and PAUL S. NEWMAN, plus Doctor Solar, Boris Karloff, The Twilight Zone, and more, including MARK EVANIER on cartoon comics, and a definitive company history! New BRUCE TIMM cover!

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(122-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

#23: MIKE MIGNOLA

#24: NATIONAL LAMPOON COMICS

#25: ALAN MOORE AND KEVIN NOWLAN

COMIC BOOK ARTIST: SPECIAL EDITION #1

COMIC BOOK ARTIST: SPECIAL EDITION #2

Exhaustive MIGNOLA interview, huge art gallery (with never-seen art), and comprehensive checklist! On the flip-side, a careerspanning JILL THOMPSON interview, plus tons of art, and studies of Jill by ALEX ROSS, STEVE RUDE, P. CRAIG RUSSELL, and more! Also, interview with JOSÉ DELBO, and a talk with author HARLAN ELLISON on his various forays into comics! New MIGNOLA HELLBOY cover!

GAHAN WILSON and NatLamp art director MICHAEL GROSS speak, interviews with and art by NEAL ADAMS, FRANK SPRINGER, SEAN KELLY, SHARY FLENNEKIN, ED SUBITSKY, M.K. BROWN, B.K. TAYLOR, BOBBY LONDON, MICHEL CHOQUETTE, ALAN KUPPERBERG, and more! Features new covers by GAHAN WILSON and MARK BODÉ!

Focus on AMERICA’S BEST COMICS! ALAN MOORE interview on everything from SWAMP THING to WATCHMEN to ABC and beyond! Interviews with KEVIN O’NEILL, CHRIS SPROUSE, JIM BAIKIE, HILARY BARTA, SCOTT DUNBIER, TODD KLEIN, JOSE VILLARRUBIA, and more! Flip-side spotlight on the amazing KEVIN NOWLAN! Covers by J.H. WILLIAMS III & NOWLAN!

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(122-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

(122-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $3.95

Previously available only to CBA subscribers! Spotlights great DC Comics of the ’70s: Interviews with MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN on JACK KIRBY’s Fourth World, ALEX TOTH on his mystery work, NEAL ADAMS on Superman vs. Muhammad Ali, RUSS HEATH on Sgt. Rock, BRUCE JONES discussing BERNIE WRIGHTSON (plus a WRIGHTSON portfolio), and a BRUCE TIMM interview, art gallery, and cover!

Compiles the new “extras” from CBA COLLECTION VOL. 1-3: unpublished JACK KIRBY story, unpublished BERNIE WRIGHTSON art, unused JEFF JONES story, ALAN WEISS interview, examination of STEVE ENGLEHART and MARSHALL ROGERS’ 1970s Batman work, a look at DC’s rare Cancelled Comics Cavalcade, PAUL GULACY art gallery, Marvel Value Stamp history, Mr. Monster’s scrapbook, and more!

(76-page Digital Edition) $3.95

(112-page Digital Edition) $3.95

Gallery

Much Ado About Alex

Below: We’ve dedicated this issue to contributor Steve Cohen because, despite severe health restrictions, he put in a lastminute, herculean effort to get us examples of his Toth and Mayer holdings. Thank you, Steve, and we wish you well. Kudos to Tom Field for his assistance. Above, courtesy of Steve, is an extraordinary example of Alex visualizing a sedate, mundane subject—here, a model sheet of the Hanna-Barbera cartoon, Super Friends—and rendering it so vividly and handsomely. The artist has just awesome chops! ©2000 HannaBarbera and DC Comics. Right: 1972 drawing for Shel Dorf published in a San Diego Comic Con souvenir book. Courtesy of Paul Power. ©2000 Alex Toth.

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Above: Here’s one few of us have seen before—Alex Toth’s 1961 Sunday-style strip promoting the outstanding Vincent Price/Charles Bronson film, Master of the World. Originally in two-tone, this beauty was found in a press kit and sent to us courtesy of David A. Roach. ©2000 the respective copyright holder.

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Below: What the hey?! This costumed consumer by Alex was rendered, according to contributor (and sometime Toth inker) Terry Austin, for the cover of Clothes magazine sometime in the 1960s. ©2000 the respective copyright holder.

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Opposite page: In the ’70s, Alex drew a series of strips for the U.S. Armed Forces advising military personnel on various subjects. Courtesy of Andrew Steven (top) and Manuel Auad (bottom), here are two rarely-seen strips. Note the decoration relief on the restaurant wall in the lower strip, resembling Alex’s spectacular splash in the Toth-scripted and drawn 1976 Warren story, “Kui,” from Creepy #79. ©2000 the respective copyright holder. Jan. 2001

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Above: Space Ghost style guide by Alex from 1966. Lancelot Falk has reconstructed many, many Toth model sheets from H&B, and we regret that this is his single contribution to this issue. Here’s hoping that together Lance and CBA produces an issue devoted to his animation model sheet collection someday! Thanks to Lance for his support and contributions. ©2000 H&B.

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Professional Courtesies

Paying Homage to the Master Some of comics’ best & brightest talk about Toth Joe Kubert writer/artist/editor Alex is a devotee of this particular artform and is more knowledgeable about what it takes to execute good comic book art than anyone I know. He’s so multi talented, everything he does sets the mark for everyone else to jump at.

Jim Lee writer/artist/publisher There are few artists who have the ability to tell so much with one line or shape. He gets to the point and makes it stick, all the while making it look effortless. Alex Toth’s work is a constant reminder to me what needs to be in any drawing for it to work; the rest is simply obfuscatory window dressing.

Kevin Nowlan artist Please forgive me if I get a little carried away, after all, we are talking about TOTH… the one universal absolute in the eyes of all who love the medium. It’s funny, once in a while, during a conversation about Toth, someone will confess that they don’t really see what all the fuss is about and we have to just stare at them as if they’ve just announced that the Earth is flat. Look closely at “Daddy and the Pie” in Creepy #139. At the bottom of page four the family and the alien are looking at a star chart. Beneath the table you can just barely see details: the lines of the hardwood floor, the alien’s pant legs and shoes, the seat and legs of an empty chair. Toth drew all of this, then blacked it all out. The table is casting a shadow and everything below it is in darkness. A lesser mortal wouldn’t have the heart to cover up all those details, but the panel would’ve been less effective without that big shadow. The short, sad little story “Taps” is one of the most stylized and poetic stories Toth ever produced. The feeling of movement on the pages is simply transcendent. How in the world can he do that with just a few simple lines? On a more personal note, looking at old Toth stories is one of my favorite antidotes for the blues. He really does make the impossible look easy; the complex look simple. When I look back at the comics I loved as a kid, many of them just don’t hold up, but Toth’s stories look better and better with age. Above: In the 1960s, Alex Toth wrote some of the weird and wonderful Pete Millar CARtoons . Splash page to Drag CARtoons #7. Courtesy of Andrew Steven. ©2000 Millar Publications. MARK CHIARELLO, DC Comics Editorial Art Director, is one of CBA’s most favoritist people and we thank him for all of his enormous help on this special Toth issue. He’s also one helluva artist in his own right, not to mention his extraordinary co-editing job on one of the best recent comics anthologies, Batman Black & White. 30

compiled by Mark Chiarello

Walter Simonson writer/artist Alright, look: Everybody who works in comics with a modicum of sense and the ability to recognize talent already knows that Alex Toth is absolutely a genius. That’s a given. Here’s the evidence. Nothing to do with his brilliant draftsmanship, or astonishing sense of design, or even the warmth of his drawing (something, given the “simplicity” of his art, that is difficult to credit even when you’re looking right at the stuff)!! Nope. It’s his postcards and letters. Anybody who hand-letters his own missives, includes occasionally illustrations as needed, writes to character count to fill the exact space available, and is actually able to justify his margins, left and right, is a genius. Unbelievable! Don’t believe me? Try it sometime. Damnation! A genius. End of story.

Dave Gibbons writer/artist The first work of Alex Toth’s I saw was a reprint of a Dell movie comic called “The Land Unknown.” Back then, I just knew the storytelling was far better than any other movie adaptation I’d seen; it was, well, like really watching a movie. Years later, I look at the story with an even greater sense of awe; as a professional, I now understand the tremendous talent and skill required to produce such an effect. Toth’s work has always been more than flashy tricks to thrill the kids, although it certainly succeeds in doing that; it has the enduring quality and depth of true art.

Howard Chaykin writer/artist Most of us who’ve known Alex Toth have experienced his legendary temper and temperament. Words like difficult, obstinate, COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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obnoxious, and impossible—to list only a very few—are what come to mind when dealing with this man. That said, it’s often easy to forget the work. Put aside, at least for the moment, how irascible Alex can be. Remember instead, that from the early 1950s, with work like “Battle Flag of the Foreign Legion,” or “Thunderjet,” or “The Crush Gardenia,” Alex Toth became the greatest graphic artist comic books ever had—and, in my opinion, has held onto that position to this day. The greatest. Period.

Adam Hughes artist Most artists suck. A couple are actually good. A very few are even great. But, luckily, every generation is entitled to an Alex Toth. Alex Toth isn’t just a great artist, he’s a standard of excellence; a yardstick against which almost everyone else falls very, very short. Toth was put here to keep the rest of us humble.

Brian Bolland artist Alex Toth is absolutely the best! The first thing you hear when people talk about his work is how economical it is, how pared-down. You hear the story about how some editor encouraged him to take a bottle of white-out and erase all that wasn’t necessary. It’s almost as if you could sum up his work by calling it simple. It’s not that he leaves so much out that’s always impressed me it’s the ingenuity, the wit and the sheer complexity of what he puts in. His work is idiosyncratic and bold, even experimental. He has a mastery of design and composition. He pushes his very real and highly likable characters around the panel, peers at them from unusual angles and plunges them into deep moody shadow and, almost incidentally, he does all this with blocks of black and his simple but exquisitely beautiful line. He could make a wiggly line look like poetry. It’s a pleasure just to look at his signature! Many comic artists (and I number myself among them) use a lot of noodly lines to cover up weak drawing. When you draw as sparingly as Alex, you don’t have that luxury. You really have to know how to draw, and in that respect he puts the rest of us in the shade. I first discovered his work in the early ’60s DC mystery books (I’m still unearthing his lovely—and surprisingly detailed!—art in issues of House of Mystery and House of Secrets), Hot Wheels, Rip Hunter, and the classic Flash and Atom story in The Brave and the Bold. I followed it in the Warren books right up to Jesse Bravo. It was a proud moment for me, when it came to Batman Black and White #4, to be in a comic with a Toth cover. The fact that DC and Warren have never published a complete collection of the work of this great man is beyond belief.

Al Williamson artist He’s so damned good!

Bill Sienkiewicz writer/artist The term “artist’s artist “ has been used to describe Alex Toth and his work, for as long as I can remember. As a moniker, it can cut two ways, both as the ultimate compliment and as the ‘Miss Congeniality’ of artistic hierarchy. A quasi-consolation prize, veering nervously close to elitism when it’s used in reference to the fans who don’t “get” his work. Also, though said artist has the cumulative awe and respect of colleagues, implicit in the above is that the artist’s work itself lacks a certain trendy flash—a self-important flamboyance that draws attention to itself at the expense of the story being told. Not a “fan-flavor of the month.” Too simple. Not enough pen lines. Not enough gritted teeth. This is not to cast any aspersions, quite the opposite. Probably one of the highest accolades an artist can receive is to be acknowledged as so damn good at what one does that the artist becomes nearly “invisible” (whether in art or music or acting)... a conduit. A Jan. 2001

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vessel carrying one’s talent and experience to serve the story or art at hand. Most artists, when struck by insecurity about their talent, or lack thereof, tend to over-render and over-compensate. They do things that they might not do if they allowed themselves to trust their own instincts. They can easily step all over their message. But not guys like Alex. He doesn’t seem to do that. He makes it look so easy. Too easy, as a matter of fact. Hence the above paragraphs. Alex strips away affectation and sheer virtuosity for its own sake to address the essence, the design and the story —not because he lacks the ability to put all that stuff in (he’s got it in spades), but because he has the guts and the intelligence to leave it out. Consequently, the work doesn’t pander, nor does it seek our approval. It stands on its own terms. It quite simply, is. We who draw and tell stories for a living tend to see that naked and exposed work, rightfully so, as the gauntlet that’s been thrown at our feet by a master. Dare we ourselves try to say so much with so little?

Tim Sale artist Alex Toth’s work, like all great things, rewards you the closer you look. The simplicity is deceptive—some find it too simple, but for me it has always been compelling—because there is actually so much there. The weight, the daring use of blacks, the characterizations, and above all the thoughtfulness, like he’s figured it all out. Because he has. 31

CBA Q&A

“…Smoke Across a Cloud” Paul Rivoche quizzes Toth on the craft of continuity art PAUL RIVOCHE, freelance advertising illustrator, animation storyboard guy, comic book artist, and graphic designer is the proprietor of Toronto’s Smash Design. In addition to recently rendering Batman in a “Batman Black & White” back-up story, Paul executed covers for DC/Vertigo’s Brave Old World series. Back in the day, he also drew Mr. X.

Above: Courtesy of John Hitchcock, a Toth wash drawing— reportedly cropped by the artist because he was dissatisfied with the drawing of Batman’s lower extremities. Art ©2000 Alex Toth. Batman ©2000 DC Comics.

Opposite page: Perhaps one of the best Batman stories of all time, here are two pages from the Archie Goodwin-scribed “Death Flies the Haunted Sky,” Detective Comics #442, featuring a quintessential Caped Crusader. Courtesy of Jim Amash. ©2000 DC Comics. 32

Conducted by Paul Rivoche As a boy, I had a sacred weekly ritual: The Great Friday Afternoon Pilgrimage, a fevered journey from home to spinner rack, in search of comic books worth buying. After school, Mom supplied me with just enough money for a few comics and a hamburger, and off I would go, anticipation building, the holy quest for the “good stuff” once more renewed. And so it was that I came across the artwork of Alex Toth. Even through the obscuring veil of crude printing, its truth and power was unmistakable. Enthralled, I collected every new story of his I came across: “Burma Sky,” “Soldier’s Grave,” “Dirty Job,” “The Glory Boys,” “The Tally,” and many others… a long list of titles, each unique, each still treasured.

Today, as a comics/illustration professional, I realize how much I owe Alex Toth: For setting such a consistently excellent example; for showing how to observe nature for lessons of truth, not merely copy the surfaces of others’ art; for communicating the raw graphic excitement of the endless wonders around us: the calligraphy of a face, the cascade of a wrinkled sleeve, the rhythm of raking shadows… And mostly, a debt is owed for Alex’s willingness to unselfishly pass on what he knows, to those willing to listen and learn, as he himself once listened and learned from the masters of his day. When you approach Alex for artistic advice, he is as direct, honest, accurate, and powerful as his artwork. That rarest of artists, Alex not only creates, but understands why and how he creates, and can explain it clearly to others. Unlike all too many “teachers” who only want ranks of imitators, Alex says: “Understand these principles, then go forth, and be yourself” …and that is why he can be trusted. The more one looks at his work, the more one finds. It is so well-crafted that it never bores. As anyone who has tried it discovers, it’s just about impossible to be as consistently excellent as he

was and continues to be. This, Alex Toth accomplished, through many years in a difficult business. This article, cobbled together from a Q&A correspondence I maintained with Alex over the last year or so, is for anyone who is interested to hear him speak, not about the ephemeral gossip of bygone days, but about the live inner workings of his craft of cartooning. Most of all, it’s for the student out there who just might give a damn…—P.R. Paul Rivoche: It seems that relatively few comics artists these days pay much attention to the overall design of a page. Many try to do flashy individual panels without looking at the page as a whole. What is your approach to laying out a page? How do you achieve the graphic unity that is a consistent feature of your work? Do you do many small breakdowns to sort out the graphic bold structures of the page in miniature? Alex Toth: Page design is, must be, very personal—it is always variable. No formula helps explain or create it. You can’t cobble up a template/overlay to impress upon any kind of story—ridiculous! Each story, type of story, each subject, each writer’s spelling-it-out in his own unique (or awful) way, needs special focus/care/thought/attention/styling shifts, to customize its art to serve it and ‘plus’ it. ‘A good script draws itself,’ sez me—love, romance, adventure, period costume, Western, futuristic, fantasy, sci-fi, crime, superjock or jill, mystery, suspense, horror, teen humour, kiddytales, spy, aviation, sea tales, ancient civilizations fare,historical, war, etc.… set in every corner of the world or universe, or undersea worlds, some more picturesque than others, demanding research, backgrounds, set designs (based on reality, fotoswipes, etc.) So, you see, trying to contain/ explain/display/exploit visual elements of all the above within a rigid, fixed, artificial framing of such stories, per panel or per page, in a “size 12EEEE,” is lunacy! A lazy man’s approach to the specific problems of our storytelling artform! “One size CANNOT fit all”!!! The cartoonist’s mind/imagination must be free to do the specific job at hand in its—and his—own way! In service to said story! ‘Genre,’ a word I loathe, so bloody effete and fey in the saying of it, explains “vivé là difference”! Tale to tale, writer to writer, subject to subject, approach to approach—finish to finish! We cast our characters like actors, make them personify a type (new or clichéd), and move them through gestural expressions, action, and emotional bits. We clothe/costume them to best define them as characters, we direct how they’ll act or be shown to best, worst, or telling advantage, to serve the story—tipping-off readers to the obvious, or (in reverse) being sly and subtle about them, their true or hidden character, motivations, and intentions. Thus, babyfaced bastards and bitches! Yes? Or ugly pussycats, nice good guys and gals! We design their settings, locations, light them, lens them, move them, to best advantage storywise, to reveal/conceal their characters—create interest in them— through word, deed, body language, expression, or lack of it—see? I used to make little page layouts per script page, up in the right hand corners, usually—in those long-dead days when writers could write out a six- or seven- or eight-panel page’s descriptions, dialogue, and captions on one double-spaced typewritten 8.5”x11” sheet— simple, yes? After two or three readings per page, I’d doodle my mini-layout for it. It was not locked down, but was up for grabs, later, during the actual full-page breakdowns. Every rereading deepened my savvy of the storyflow, scenes, shot to shot continuity, what to stress, frame for (or not), comparative yin-yang elements and how to balance them, add visual pique and interest, little asides/tips to readCOMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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ers, have fun with characters, moods, set pieces, action, time of day‚ or night, body language, gestural bits— this would make it more fun for me, so I could make it more fun for readers—‘plus’ that script—surprise even its writer, for getting the point, or adding my own bit to ‘plus’ his—or see it just off center, revealing more meat in his stew! There’s no substitute for thinking time! Think more, draw less—and ‘less-is-more!’ Dig? Clichés are but old truths! I tapped into all the faddist nonsense in my time, used and abused ‘em—badly or not—I’d let go, try another. But, best of all was to just let go all suppositions and formulaic self-limiting layout garbage re mechanics, and allot a scene the space it needed—and no more!!! And I’d use angles, up, down, tilts, around/through/over/under/inside things, like a ditzy Hollywood tyro-cameraman/director gone bonkers, with zoom lenses and special effects, ‘til I got bored with its artifice—over-stressing the mundane—and just took it a panel at a time: backing, filling, redrawing, shoehorning a lot—’til all pieces fit/read smoothly! A jigsaw puzzle—my worst (comic book artists’/cartoonists’ worst) dilemmas were too few panels per page!!! I’d rather deal with 10, than three or four! Rarely did panel copy/picture content warrant such large panels, so few—the scripts didn’t support such space waste, nor the action—so I’d rather not ‘float’ panels in page-space, trying to justify slim fixin’s! No, I’d prefer more story, needing more thought/care to squeeze into pages, demanding more thought about continuity and flow, and how to shoehorn it all in and be inventive! With too much content to fill, build, compose, montage a page, rather than too little, it forces you to more skillfully learn to assess space per storytelling panel(s) and pages! Which, in service to script/story, gives such pages a bigger chunk of it per—reading smooths it out, too, with more of it to be read, framed in a story thusly—almost like an old 12-panel Sunday comics page vs. a three- to four-panel daily… Much more continuity—graphic goodies—interest! Uninterrupted by two-page spread’s gutter, such pages of eight, nine, to 12 or more panels squeezed much into them, and all the fat/waste/excesses of over-scaled art out of them!! Given reasonable, lean dialogue, captions, and copy, the art would force its cartoonist/creator to get down to business and deliver worthy storytelling panels, interlocking into a pageful of what ought to be damn interesting scenes, varied in type and scale! Again: per-panel space assessment is too personal, too dependent upon story, plot points, and continuity-flow, to be set to formula. Each cartoonist responds or ‘sees’ in his own way—decides every panel’s dramatic value, apportions more or less space, and decides the size, vertical, horizontal, or square formats of panels—to get us through them best, without a look of ‘squeezing.’ Mort Meskin, Jack Cole, and others such as Will Eisner, did ‘loaded’ 10-, 12-, 14-panel pages skillfully, with no squeezed look at all! Andre LeBlanc, ditto, in his fun-festive ‘Intellectual Amos’ five-, seven-page tales. But, many 1930s/’40s/’50s classic comic book writers and cartoonists did it as a normal event—we readers, then, got our dime’s worth, no mistake!! All this forced the simplification of figures and scenes to still ‘read’ clearly and well, with no sacrifice of quality at all, by true talents. No ‘cheating’—just a needed economy! The colorists could, and did, enhance and clarify (or muddle) smallish panel content. Cartoonists had no control of the coloring, but hoped that their simple black-&-white art would ‘read’ clearly, no matter how badly it might be colored! It did! More so then, than now… As for the abstract or functional ‘design’ of such pages—it’s a process of ‘seat of the pants’ cutting and fitting into the final composite. It’s personal, case-specific, unique—instinctual—subject to taste/needs/a ‘mind’s eye’ additive/subtractive building-block process. Though I’m repeating myself, I do it to stress the truth of it all—that no formulaic approach or mechanics or tricks does the job of covering panel/page continuity design. It’s too big a job for lazy minds—which dote on predictable, reproducible results, irrespective of input variables. Their reductive aims are to make top sirloin steak dinners, beef tacos, and chitlins, all come out the same—mush! Line up ten cartoonists to illustrate the same script page, and see the differences—or similarities! Fascinating? Mebbe— My own experiences, wins, losses, good and bad results over many decades, boil down to ‘seeing’ with a ‘third eye’, and intuiting when/how an assemblage of panels/a page will come together rightly—best. After lots of erasure, scrubbing away, redrawing, scaling-up/down, shifting P.O.V., recomposing, slanting emphases this way or that to link up with previous panel content, add variety, visual interest, and clarity—the jigsaw pieces do, at last, begin to fit. Copy flow, dialogue, captions flow, connect, link up—yin-yang—ham ‘n’ eggs—copy and art coalesce, join into a cohesive and connective ‘whole’— voilà! Revelation! Then, we had to learn to fit all storytelling elements together! Copy and art! But, for 30-40 years we’ve had damn Stan Lee/Jack Kirby’s Marvel collaborations, the peculiar post-art writing style Lee poisoned the water with. It was imitated by every writer there, and then at DC, by crossovers ‘spreading the method’: the post-art writing of dialogue, captions, etc., shoehorning it all in, over, around, and under the art (making a mess of it, in my opinion!), ruining graphic and textual continuity and balance—interrupting the flow! And, since the ’50s/’60s, everybody’s doing it!!! We’ve seen writers who no longer write, as writers of my time did, nor do cartoonists compose (non-existent) copy into the art—so both crafts are ill-served, and have been for decades! A big part of the cartoonist’s job is no more—to design copy and art to fit/work/tell their written/drawn story. They’ve abdicated responsibility for it—so no one understands/demonstrates continuity story and art anymore, in print—they’ve deconstructed the whole damn form! Dummies write/draw comic books! Which is comic adventure continuity’s last stand! Thanks to Stan Lee’s overproduction needs, with five-pages-aday Jack Kirby!!! It was madness! It spread! Look at what it’s wrought! Guys who draw—but don’t know what to draw! Or what word/picture Jan. 2001

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Above: Few concepts are as “pure Toth” as his own Jesse Bravo, a character written, drawn, lettered, and fullyowned by the artist. A fan drawing of the Erroll Flynninspired hero, courtesy of John Hitchcock. Below: An unused panel(?) from Bravo for Adventure. Courtesy of Manuel Auad. ©2000 Alex Toth.

Above: As a storytelling challenge, nothing beats a good romance tale. And nobody defined the genre as well as Alex Toth, the absolute king of the love books. Courtesy of Terry Austin, we feature four pages of Toth at his finest, designing like crazy, exploiting the nuances and subtleties of characters, and exceptionally depicting a mundane, staid narrative with brilliance and panache. These pages are from Secret Hearts #143. ©2000 DC Comics.

continuity is! It can only get worse! It will, too! Who knows enough to correct all wrongs? Paul: You once mentioned “Kubert’s ‘moneyshot’ formula taught to young tyros, to criminal abuse by them all”—I’m wondering exactly what you meant by that ? Alex: Kubert’s ‘moneyshot/grabber’ (his vernacular, not mine) is his mechanical, formulaic, set-in-stone prescription for comic book page composition/storytelling, to make it all the more dramatic/dynamic, thus more saleable, commercial, and ‘collectible,’ I guess… using whatever key action scene per page warrants more impact (via space allotted to it), to put it over, big as blazes, usually featuring ‘our hero’ in a big ball-busting fight/action shot—or the ‘hoary villain(s)’ doing dirty works, or some bloody humongous explosion or special fx gig, to knock your sox off, etc… or mood shot, to work a plot point fully. Since I resent and resist formula, this contrived “fix” per page, sets up an artificial ‘must’ per page, whether story/script has need for such bombast or not! Manufacturing/concocting such a spurious ‘need’ for such a ‘moneyshot’ is, to me, boobery!!! If the copy/story needs wider, bigger-scaled dramatics, fine, now and then—yes, but, the less it’s used, the more effective will be its use! Oddly, what I’ve seen of this gig encourages the not-too-savvy cartoonist to merely ‘blow up’ what would’ve been fine in smallish panels to outrageously outsized huge panels—half or full pages— Kirbyesque double-truck two-page spreads!!! Filled with lots of toobig closeups of faces and figures, and not ‘widescreen’-ish sprawling battle scenes, or pointmaking establishing scenes, vistas, etc., vital to readers’ understanding of ‘who’s on first, what’s on second’! So, I see just bloated wasteful art/space that is a pain—dumb—fake! Cheating on a grand scale! Bill Hanna’s old axiom:”Work expands into the time (space) allotted to it”—explaining his operative production code: “F*ck it—get it out! Jam it through!!!!” From day one of our every production start-up! April 1st was annual network contract-signing

time—so, you see how it was at Hanna & Barbera long ago! Paul: When I look at older comics, small captions were used to help the reader understand the time/place transitions in a story. For example: A new scene would begin and the writer would have a small caption such as “meanwhile,””presently,” “later,” “that night,” “suddenly,” and so on. In new comics, it seems to me that these are rarely employed. Were these just a crutch, better forgotten? Or have we lost something here? Alex: Re mini-captions’ descriptive values: we writers/cartoonists, long ago, informed readers better of the change of place/jump in time/‘inside’ asides to readers, tipping ’em off to some plot point— raising questions—adding to mystery—or clarifying—or adding characterization—setting the mood better—telling that damn story better—clearly. As above, the craft has been despoiled by dummies! ‘Nuff said? Paul: Related to the previous question, another forgotten comics device seems to be the thought balloon. It is rarely seen, and so we are denied the chance to hear a character’s thoughts… we only hear what they actually say, in a modern comic book. As above, what do you think happened? Are we better off without the thought balloon? Alex: Re ‘thot balloons’—sure—vital tools in storytelling! They are worthy supports for internal characterizations, studies, revelations, positing options or status quo, of the thinker. Who the hell said they were passé? Every comic strip storytelling device since 1900 is a useful part of our medium’s lexicon—use every one, any one, you like! From ‘The Yellow Kid’ to now—don’t let fools intimidate you with faddist B.S.! Don’t throw away useful tools! For instance, a two-shot chat: the dialogue goes on, but thoughts/‘thotballoons’ behind/under the verbal, can and do reveal unspoken truths of both characters! Yes, worthy—but—does anyone think any more? Writers? Hah! You tell me!!! Paul: Do you recommend the use of photo reference? If yes, how COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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would you suggest best employing it? Would you study it carefully, sketch from it, and then put it away—or keep it in front of you as you work? Too often it seems that artists fall on one side of the fence or another: Too little reference and the subject (be it figure, object, whatever) comes across as unconvincing and “fake.” Too much reference, and the danger is that the work—while being technically “accurate”—can come across as stiff, over-detailed, and lifeless. Your work seems to avoid both of these traps: Extremely believable, but still maintaining a feeling of real life, as if the subject had been right in front of you and you had done a sketch of it right there. How do you so consistently stay in this “middle ground”? Alex: Re fotoswipes/‘research’ etc.—I’ve written too much on this, already. To sum up: collect all fotos (I like the euro-phoneticallyspelled version-’foto’) to document/authenticate a piece of work (illo, strip, book story, cover, etc.) Study ’em—yes—learn to ‘read’ fotos, focusing only on critical ‘needed’ detail. Since 1839—or 1861— painters/impressionists used fotos as a tool, in France/Europe… Monet to Degas to later Mucha and Klimt and more. Vuillard, Bonnard—lovely, exciting! Our illustrators and painters, the same— over 100 years ago! Others such as Eakins, Morse, our Western/desert landscapists, also our century’s top illo-talents, ad artists, painters, comic strippers, book artists, et al.—they all used fotos as a tool! But, too many cartoonists fell slave to fotos—their work went dead, lifeless, like corpses or wax dummies, the faces and figures drawn from fotos! They posed for their own fotos—the ‘Polaroid’ers!!! Fotos used them, not the reverse! Shame! I loathe Alex Ross’ well-painted but so redundant/boring/lifeless/stiff/pretty/non-continuity-savvy comic book art!!! Idiot savant—hasn’t learned a damn thing yet!!! Plus Muth, Hamptons (both), others—t’ain’t comics! I’m a love/hate fotobuff—wary/chary! This passion for hyperdetailed fotos (color ones in particular), here to infinity all in sharp Jan. 2001

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focus, is to me a distracting mess—but popular. My foto-monthlies run lots of same: fotos with no center of interest or focus. It all fights for attention—it all has equal value to the needle-sharp lens and film emulsion. Damn few current fotographers use ‘selective (controllable) focus’ to advantage—the lens/film sees and records too much! And, usually, is boring! Too-rich imaging! Too-much of too-much is toomuch! It’s in-your-face information overload!!! ‘Information’ mustn’t be confused with knowledge, wisdom, and understanding—which equates with fotowork, current usage versus that of long ago. Yes, long ago too, we had disciples of detail—‘the f64 club’— which was slow-lens minimum aperture, giving amazing depth of field, here to infinity, pinpoint-sharp detail. But counter to that ‘movement’ of the big sheet/glass plate/4”x5”/5”x7“/8”x10”/even 11”x14” view cameras of the outdoor landscape and indoor studio fotogs (who merely contact-printed 1:1 negatives of such generous sizes for crisp prints, in black-&-white, and later color, too), using the same big field view bellows cameras, were the ‘romantic’ fotoartists, who were scorned for their soft-focused unsharp imaging. They took fuzzy, muzzy, blurry-edged, and very simply-composed/contrastsavvy scenic and portrait fotos that looked like impressionists’ paintings, and not real fotos! But—I loved ‘em! Via trick lenses in camera, or via darkroom enlarger, manipulations, soft filters, etc., or printed on toothy grainy paper stock to further blur the imagery, it all had a charm, eye appeal, simplicity, mood, and atmosphere that I fancied, and still do. I learned more from them than a roomful of gnat’s-eyesharp black-&-white or color fotos. The eye is drawn to the former because it invites study and viewer participation, as in any artform— that just-out-of-focus mysteriously—attractive quality which makes shapes, forms, and step values of tone or color so much easier to ‘read’ and enjoy. It creates more of a ‘whole picture,’ somehow—we do see more, with less to see. Confusing? Not really! When artists, painters, even fotographers, assess a scene on 35

Above: For a brief period in the early 1980s, Alex contributed to the short-lived Archie comics line, Red Circle, edited by Robin Snyder. Here is Toth’s cover for The Black Hood #1. Courtesy of John Hitchcock. ©2000 Archie Comics, Inc.

site, to paint etc., one trick used is the ‘squint’—yup! We squint, to blur the image, so we can best ‘see’ shapes, values, etc., as simply and directly as possible! It works! Contrary-wise as it seems to be— This ‘unsharpness’ that attracts my curious eyeballing is why, long ago (1930s onwards), I found so many fine, novel, interesting images in old newspaper b/w fotos of 55-65 dot/line screens, on cheap rough newsprint pulp papers—vs. the too-rich 80-120-132 dot screens used today! Which are too rich—dense—clumpy! I have, for decades of newspaper reading (until ’85), clipped such fuzzy fotos (if well-composed/lensed/of tonal range/shapes simple, welldefined/separated)! But, then, I’m strange in my tastes, wot? Flipside of all this is my longtime fascination with the oncevery-popular high contrast (“hi-con”) conversions of tonal (even

color) fotos to pure b/w line art, and also “posterization” (when a tonal foto is limited to black-&-white line plus one, two, or three tones by design, for most dramatic effect)! It’s done in color, too! Very striking stuff! Similar fx are achievable with top quality videocams! 40 years ago, in my ‘hot’ foto/darkroom days, I meant to shoot/print/produce a daily/Sunday strip thusly!!! I loved it! But, alas, it never came to be! Could still be done—by others—it could be pure b/w line, with mechanical dot/line screen ‘tones’/overlays (like Zip-A-Tone, etc.) added later on the b/w foto art, to design and control the graytones! Think on it—many current new b/w film stocks lend themselves to this! U.K./U.S./Japanese/German-Belgian, etc.—in 35MM and 120MM formats! Plus Polaroid’s many b/w and color films, 35 and standard! Yup! Being an addicted fan of Italian movie adaptation foto-fumetti comic books of the past 50 years, I wanted to take it to daily/Sunday papers’ strip formats—but via ‘hicon’!!! Sharp repro quality, simple, striking imagery! Anyhoo—to answer your question via the above’s mix is the best I can do—confusing? Welllll— Paul: What are your suggestions/methods for studying drapery? I remember you mentioning that you were advised to trim the number of wrinkles that you drew down to the most important two or three. How does one achieve this—i.e., decide on which are the most important lines, the ones to leave in? Alex: Re clothed figures, and all those damn wrinkles and drapery—Noel Sickles advised simplifying, choosing the one, two, three most telling folds and wrinkles radiating from the tension points of the knees, elbows, and crotches. Consider the body twist and action plus the thickness of the clothing— how loose or tight it is, its styling and cut, its purpose, etc… draw from life! Squint!!! The seated Noel, legs V'ed apart, pointed to the tension points and radiating wrinkles along his inseams to the knees and down each leg—“It’s not necessary to draw all that clutter to tell the story of that leg and flannel, no, you pick out the most telling/dramatic three or four folds, draw them, and that’s it!” Enough! Ah—but which three or four folds—?!! If you study all types of figures wearing all kinds and weights of clothing, you’ll see that quite often, loose draping cloth will conceal more than reveal the framework within/under same. That gets tricky, tension points’ rules alter then, and drawing same looks wrong on paper! Right as it may be! Study fotos, as well as milling humanity around you, and you will see countless examples of lumpen shapes of clothing the lens caught at the wrong moment, which defy you to delineate the arms, legs, and body within all that bulk! You see loose folds violating ‘rules’ of drapery, into bizarre abstract shapes that look wrong! Too, the result can be novel, intriguing, worth drawing for just that very abstract quality! Paul: In art instruction books, one often finds a statement along these lines: “Unlike perspective, anatomy, and so on, the principles of composition cannot be taught, they must be learned by intuition. They cannot be explained.” Do you agree with this statement? How do you go about constructing a solid composition? How do you create a focal point—direct a viewer’s eye to it—and so on? (I’m not looking for rigid “formulas” so much as “principles”—some insight into how you think about composing a picture). COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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Alex: Composition—it’s learned by the doing of it, through years, thousands of lousy drawings, before 2 + 2 = 4 and it clicks in your mind/eye, the third one too, mind—it looks, works, and feels right! As I’ve writ before, I fly by the seat of my pants—most of us do— intuitively, reflexively, lazily, industriously, seriously or not-too. We react to our script, story, characters, and settings, to the flow and action and spirit of same. Our weather-eye sees more, in time, experience, through bad and good and so-so stories and our art for same. Motivated or not, angry, pissed-off, happy, etc., we try to find a ‘hook’ in our script/characters to hang our enthusiasm on, to do the job. If found, it can bloom, and change the story for us, give it value, and we can be charged-up enough by our own vision of what’s innately possible in it, contributing our twist to it, in the spirit of it, to ‘plus’ it more than its author may have envisioned him/herself! It’s happened! ‘A good story draws itself,’ I keep saying—it’s true! If I find my own ‘hook,’ so I can match picture to word and tell that story, my attitude proper for it, my mindset ‘open’ for fresh, nonformulaic concepts and ideas, to make it mine, give it what’s needed—to make it work/fly—quietly! ‘Composition’—page layout/panel design—copy/art meshing nicely, fittingly, intelligently—page to page, to the end, leaving writer and reader well-served and satisfied (and maybe me, too!?) It’s happened, too—on occasion—not that often, tho’, damn it! Try viewing, seeing (really ‘seeing’), studying, questioning, assessing, movies, TV, videos old and new for their storytelling graphic lexicological continuity techniques—which adds fun to the process—watch them two, three more times, discovering what you missed before! Composition is walking around your actors in the setting to find the right place to set up your camera, mentally, visualizing it, deciding what lens to use, how close to your actors you’ll shoot, who is more important, whose line is the punchline, how many crosscuts you’ll use, how long the scene is, are the actors static or chatting, is there physical ‘bizniz,’ what bizniz, gestures, walking about or through the room/rooms, anta/prota/gonist, who’s who, wotzwot, is one the heavy, other hero/sympatico/neutral/a woman/old, young, pretty, not, short, tall, heavy, thin, how dressed, setting-wise, large/small room(s), what’s our time frame/period, where in the world of rooms are we, nation, city, town, ethnic, regional, cultural set pieces, etc., etc… Every element in a shot has a priority-value, keyed to what a scene is about. From whose P.O.V. should we bias it? Is it a crucial scene—or just a ‘bridging’ scene between other, key, shots? So, if it’s a quiet moment (short or long), give it its needs, but no more—‘cuz it sets up the (maybe) stronger next scene. Since dialogue reveals character and motive, play to that—will they react to offscreen biz? Sounds—sudden walk-on of ‘new’ character—or an alarm—or—will the two cross/exit—left to right, or vice versa—hi/low, overhead, floor level, neutral, up to or away from camera? Y’see, Paul, how it is? Each scene has a head/tail—enter/exit/or cut/dissolve—a link, one, in a chain of ’em. They must make a chain, maybe differing in size /length/width, but each serves its own purpose in the context of story parts making up a whole (be it video, film, animation, live action, comic strips, comic books, ol’ Time/Life magazine serial foto storytelling, storyboards, etc.—the whole 9 yards!!!) On a pageful of vari-sized panels/links, try to give the right amount of space/size per panel, and not too much! Each end is as bad as the other—the copy, captions, dialogue balloons dictate much of space usage—it is part of composition! It must be! Creating the flow through words and art and out again, to the next panel, is a crucial skill to be learned—and used well! But we’ve a generation of comic book artists and cartoonists bred of the goddamned abuse— separation of parts of the whole, started by the Stan Lee-inspired and much-imitated “post-art dialogue-and-caption writing/insertion/ cramming/jamming/overlapping/chewing-into-art” system—wherein “finished” pages are without any copy! Paste-ups, etc., done later by other hands/minds’ll do all that! It stinks! Copy must be written-out, edited, and fixed, so said cartoonist will just have to think, work it in, design it into, around, over, and thru the art of the panel, page, story, book!! But we’ve poisoned the well, with this post-art-scripting horror! So writers/cartoonists don’t produce all they should, per Jan. 2001

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assigned job—dumbing-down the process to its current inept state! The old traditional way was the best. It made sense! It made us dinosaurs think about much more than filling up space! It was fun, sweaty, hard to learn—and the learning should never stop! To our last gasping breath! Primary always: Tell the story. Reread the script a few times until the bits of the puzzle fit. Thumbnail panel and page compositions to best serve it, expanding and reducing them into the ‘right’ balance, creating pages full of correctly-sized/composited/continuitysmooth story-reading—for readers, even curious editors—possibly! As you compose panels and pages, and pace the art to story needs, balance “busy” establishing scenes (needing set piece construction) with others, like dialogue-heavy expository key or bridging scenes (‘walky-talkies’, I call ‘em). They need no distracting background/foreground surroundings or settings, which you’ve established previously so that readers will know where ‘we’ and characters are! So, as many strip/book cartoonists showed us decades ago, a blank, white, or black background (or some combination, like a drop shadow slanting across, indicating a wall behind, beside, or in front of our ‘actors’—or as Roy Crane did it, drawing a framed picture behind ’em, also indicating ‘wall’! Solid!) is all that’s needed, quietly serving the dialogue going on. Hollywood’s ‘cheating’ techniques

Above: As Ye Ed rambles on about in his “Editor’s Rant” this ish, Alex’s two-part Black Canary story (in Adventure Comics #418-19) was just about the sexiest strip of the 1970s. Words by Dennis O’Neil, above is a page from the first installment depicting our heroine in a most unusual job interview. Courtesy of Andrew Steven. ©2000 DC Comics.

apply: since silent days, plain ‘flats’, as walls, deadly-dull, can be enhanced with lighting—a gobo ‘scrim’ in front of it, to cast soft/sharp/medium/coolish/dim shapes/silhouettes of things (window frames/blinds/foliage/lurking head/figure’s-profile eavesdropping—anything that’ll serve needs). It made ‘film-noir’ dramatic, and damn cheap, to set up and shoot. Necessity (few $$$) is, indeed, the ‘mother of invention,’ stimulating the theretofore unthought-of solution to a sticky problem. Sterile mundaity and plainjane dull scenes can be uplifted simply, on the cheap, with light and shadow, giving a painted/textured ‘flat’ visual dimension/interest—out of focus, or not, as per plot point needs… The silhouette, well-used, balanced, foreground/background, is a simple, strong visual ‘plus’ in any scene—day, night, interior, exterior, for adding depth, planes, separation, etc. Crank it up, to overpower a shot of dark moody mysterioso dread/suspense—or dim it down, shrink it, to ‘round-off’ corners of frame and have viewers’/ readers’ eyes center and circle ‘round a shot, if we wish—if shot/ copy/action/non-action/storypoint needs that dwelling/pause for some vital info to sink in… Zorro, The Shadow, The Fox, Batman, are living, moving silhouettes of black—men of mystery, of night—so they should be, too!

Composing with and around them is tricky fun! At night, they’re black on black on black! How much to conceal, or reveal? The script/plot point should tell—clearly—check it! Opposite problem: bright glaring white-white light, sun on wall-to-wall snow, in a wide shot —a tree or rocks or cliff-face, ‘floats’ in all that white. But those items (like the ‘floating’ picture on the wall) define the snowfield’s slope/scale. A figure or more, slogging up, schussing down, dogsledding it, etc., works nicely, too… But, always, use the basic rule: “light against dark, dark against light”—whether you are doing pure b/w, tone, or color—throughout a panel, illo, frame, scene, or shot. Paul: You mentioned the silhouette—could you explain more about its uses? Alex: What graphic image is the strongest, boldest, simplest and clearest—in either positive or negative state? The silhouette!! If and when used properly, to best advantage, the silhouette, easily-read, allows its subject to be identified in a blink! Take a test—using doodles of your own (or anything suitable found in print, of figures, hardware objects, etc.), fill in the images wall-to-wall with solid black. Now see if those images still ‘read’ clearly, as identifiably as before. Yes? No? If either, can you figure out why, or why not? This study will help you tyro/turk/wannabe/pro cartoonists to ‘see’ much more, compose and pose and overlap figures and objects much better, and achieve clarity, so what you draw will be quickly identified for what it is, no mistake! Your eye, and mind’s eye, will assess a drawing for its merits as a workable silhouette, when completely inked and rendered and/or colored—the rule applies to all finishes and formats! Black, silhouettes, are best used in one plane of depth, not two or three—for most lucid dramatic effect! To keep things simple. In a picture, as Roy Crane cited in his casebooks for his aides/ghosts: ‘Black comes forward’—Old-timer Ed Wheelan derided then-(1940s) modern cartoonists’ spotting of blacks in all planes of depth at once as ‘making no sense at all.’ True—I pled guilty to that, and tried to do better thereon. Charles Biro, himself adept at use of blacks in his comic book art in his Daredevil series for Lev Gleason, strictly enforced his flip-flop ‘no blacks’ rule for his cartoonists to follow, later on as editor/writer of his popular Crime Does Not Pay book series and spin-offs. Thus, all line art was ‘open for color.’ He explained to me, then, that he thought drop shadow blacks and silhouettes were ‘cheating,’ ‘faking,’ covering up what was ‘hard to draw,’ ‘ignorance of subject matter,’ etc. And, yes, he was partly right—but line art cartoonists have only two ‘colors’ to mix/make pictures with (sometimes three, via mechanical or ink-drawn gray tones). The right use of black-&-white is when the blacks make the whites seem whiter, and vice versa, in unequal dominating percentages for dramatic effect: 25%-75%, 10%-90%, etc. 50/50 is boring! The burnt-out plane wreck’s black on a snow-covered alp, or a stranded white swimmer or survivor in the rolling black sea, is what I mean! Some of us, long ago, tried to make our work as ‘colorproof’ as possible—bad colorproof, that is—we had some weird wild goofy coloring that didn’t help us at all: lime green suits, mustard shirts, yellow hats, etc, etc—purple or brown skies—whatever. We inked with an eye to clearly indicate day or night, interior or exterior, natural or artificial lighting, for the colorist—but, too, to safeguard the effect somehow via our inking, against the ‘worst case scenario’ of lousy coloring, that would botch it for us, yet, if the reader could look through the miscoloring on top and still get the idea of what our b/w intentions really were—I tried, anyway, with mixed results! My resorting to marginal color notes/cues/requests were usually ignored by the colorists; later, with trimming of originals for the camera platens, such margins/notes were, indeed, just cut away—making the alibi a reality—oh, wellll! A simple device around all that, of course, was to use more silhouettes, to simplify, to indicate more planes of depth, to further ‘bad colorproof’ my line art—and give vent to brushing in those rich juicy flat blacks we all knew and loved dearly, trying to emulate, with some success, the convincing ‘realism’ of Sickles, Caniff, Robbins, Meskin, Roussos, Robinson, etc., etc.— my/our extant strip/book heroes, expert b/w stylists, all—plus the then-magic of Will Eisner (and Co.’s) Spirit atmospherics. Of course, to color our own work would have been the way to win the game. I COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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couldn’t get to do that, tho’—I did try, was discouraged to—so, let go! Studying such woes and how to work thru, around, and past them, the positive/negative silhouette led to more involved revelations about shapes, within and without the envelope to be haphazardly-colored by disinterested staff colorists with or without heavy daily workloads! A silhouette can mean more than just the b/w of it! It can and does include subdivisions of the whole! I began to appreciate the abstract element of color shapes, as interlocking overlapping puzzle-pieces, each (its edges) helping define the others around it, its ‘surround.’ Studying figures, objects, and settings, it opened up for me: the abstract, the silhouette, contrast, light against dark, dark against light, and/or middle-valued bits in the mix—so the black haired, olive skinned man wearing a chocolate brown sports jacket, white shirt, yellow/white check tie, tan slacks, two-tone brown and white loafers, descending gray stone steps to his pale blue convertible, with dark blue-gray top and seats and whitewall tires, is an assembly of colored shapes/silhouettes of light, medium, and dark colors, and black bits. To ‘see’ the subjects thusly, to me, is a way to simplify them, and their whole. Thus, everything you see around you, lamp, TV, table, papers, ashtray, wall blinds, furniture, is a color silhouette! See it all? Keep trying! Worth it! Break it all down, separately, as flat color shapes. Paint them as just shapes—they’ll need little embellishment! Paul: Sometimes it seems (speaking very generally) that comic book artists fall into two camps: there are the very tight, stiff, often photo-based “realists.” These are often over-concerned with detail, “exact” anatomy, super-nailed-in perspective, and so on. At the other extreme are the looser “stylists”—cartoonists who don’t worry much about detail, realistic anatomy and structure, and so on, but go for the broader strokes (sometimes going over the borderline from “loose” into “sloppy”). Often these have more feeling of “life” and expression, but not much conviction. Your work always fascinated me because it seems to straddle both camps: it is very “loose”—relaxed-looking in its execution, not over-labored and noodled—but still seems very true and accurate—not faked. You take an imaginary scene and make us think that you were really there, doing sketches of it. Yet, it doesn’t look at all “photographic.” Anything you can say about how you achieve this? And why do we see so few today that follow this path? Jan. 2001

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Alex: Must be my Sickles studies at work—it took a long time before it showed in my work. Sickles, with his remarkable memory for American history costume/uniform/hardware/weaponry/saddlery leather items/the works, did a top half two-page spread for the old Saturday Evening Post, which had over 100 Old West figures, street, square, horses, riders, women, and men, etc., of all types. He drew it all from memory/imagination (he told me, in the late ’40s/early ’50s) —amazing! No ‘repeats’ either, mind! He’d studied, set it all to memory—‘til needed! Voilá! I’m sure he took liberties—once into it, on a roll, options of costume, etc., must’ve been exercised—within proscribed period dress parameters, though! ‘Creative-cheating’, faking

Above: As a gift for inker Terry Austin, Alex rendered this exquisite pin-up of Dinah Lance, the heroine we know as Black Canary. Courtesy of Terry Austin. Art ©2000 Alex Toth. Black Canary ©2000 DC Comics.

Above and opposite page: CBA was delighted to receive—from separate sources, no less!—copies of both the Toth-penciled and Terry Austin-inked versions of pages from the 1983 Superman Annual (#9), written by Elliot S! Maggin. Above courtesy of David “Hambone” Hamilton. Opposite page courtesy of Terry Austin. ©2000 DC Comics.

(?) it was called. If you know your subject well, you can do so—and still be legit! But let’s give Noel the benefit of the doubt, because he was so authentic about his illustration subjects, like most old-time illustrators and some cartoonists—Caniff, Foster, etc. I’ve done certain subjects that way, too—educated creativecheating/from memory, etc—if in a pinch, with no time, no ‘scrap,’ foto research, ‘swipes,’ etc. If on somewhat sure ground, I’ll pull it off. But I’d rather soak up fotos of said subjects first, doodle their basic workings, then set it aside and draw. If need be, I’ll refer back to the fotos, to check out an item, correct, redraw, and add or subtract detail. Do the ‘squint-test’ of the overall shapes, and parts of shapes! I love/hate/am wary of fotos—their use, abuse, and misuse! Tricky stuff—who’s in charge? The fotos? Or their users? Paul: What are the things that you consider when keying poses to dialogue in a comic panel? Sometimes it seems as if there are so many possibilities… how do you choose which moment to select? I know that there’s no set formula, but again, I’m wondering if there’s anything you can pass on about how you look at this important part of constructing a page. Alex: What I liked in Sickles’ work, in Scorchy Smith and his ghosting of Terry and the Pirates, or Patsy in Hollywood, was that fresh, ‘candid’ look to his characters, reactions, and actions, his naturalism. He didn’t ‘push it’—no excesses, rather ‘quiet’, vs. Caniff and others in strips—more the illustrator! So, it rubbed off on me—the ‘why’ of it. Study acting /the works in movies, TV, and use it all to give life

to your own drawn actors. You’ve got to be casting director, director, actor, actress, lighting director, wardrobe person, costume designer, set designer, set dresser, makeup person, editor, sound man, producer—the works! Line readings, inflection, intonation, pitch, accenting of˝ words, matching facial/figural attitudes, gestures, and poses, to point-up the dialogue’s meaning and intent, makes or breaks an actor’s ‘cold reading’ audition/later performance. 100 actors’ll read the lines 100 different ways, like 100 cartoonists will give one script 100 different interpretations. So, behind your pencil, pen, or brush, you wear many hats! Know acting, and all the rest! ‘Feel’ it, and know it, too! Paul: Are there any art/comic art instruction books that you would recommend as reliable resources? There are so many art technique books out there—but I know from my own experience to be careful which ones to follow: when I was about 16, I realized that I had to try to learn more about anatomy or I couldn’t advance. I bought Burne Hogarth’s Dynamic Anatomy and started studying away. After some time, and exposure to other books/real skeletons, I realized how disastrously inaccurate his anatomical inventions were. Then I had to spend a long time trying to unlearn the bad habits I had unwittingly picked up. Since then I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard beginner cartoonists enthuse about Hogarth’s books… that’s why there’s a real need for accurate information. Alex: Fraudulent concoctions, those damn Hogarth tomes— Dynamic Nostrils, Dynamic Dewlaps, Dynamic Chest Hair, etc.—the abbatoir/butcher block guides to anatomy—in bits ‘n’ pieces—hate ‘em! His overwrought, fictitious, ugly, warpy-twisted muscle-bags are a mess! You only need one book (vs. his six or seven) of fotos of nude models—the fotos would’ve shouted truth, not lies—inventions—fakes! Who the bloody Hell needs self-deluded, indulgent, egocentric Hogarth, or anybody, to twist reality/truth all out of shape with glitzy, shiny drawings of convoluted, totally impossibly-posed warpy bodies? And having the gall, the cheek, to claim them as ‘truth’—gospel—how it is!!!???!!! My son Eric, car designer in Michigan for 10 years, while at our local “Art Center/School of Design” in Pasadena, had to sit through Hogarth’s anatomy classes during part of one semester. He, as teacher, was ‘very loud’—a pain!!! Case closed, R.I.P., Burne! But those bloody books go on and on and on, poisoning the well, poisoning minds, with garbage—fakery!!! Bridgman, with his block-shaped body parts, was not much better! Victor Perrard was better, but life drawing—reality—nature— truth—is the best teacher of all, as you must always be your own! As I’ve written and said a zillion times! No interlocutor, interpreter, or filtered data is necessary at all! Just you, your eyes, mind, hands, fingers, judgements, assessments of all you survey—and your skills, to get ‘em down on paper as they really are, or seem to be, or look like—to you! Sketch nude/clothed models/public at large/quick ruffs, or long quiet/easy/relaxed natural poses… your wife sewing, reading, watching TV, snoozing on the couch, etc, etc. Also—fast fluid little action/gestural ruffs/doodles will use your eyes/mind like a camera shutter, freezing it for a second, jotting it down in a continuous flowing line… use a soft thick lead or a 30% or 40% gray marker to force economy of lines, and to teach you to ‘squint,’ to ‘see,’ the main shapes of the figure, how it all moves, twists, bends, stretches, relaxes. Or, how the figure is in tension, doing work. Try using 3”x5” or 4”x6” hardbacked pads of medium or rough-surface paper, which are truly pocketable, inconspicuous, and easy-handling for tight spaces. This will force further simplicity, speed, and fluidity of stronger outline in your quickie sketches. Try outlining your subject, without lifting pen/lead, while studying same, not looking at your sketch until the outline’s complete. Next step: the ‘inside’ shapes— they might require a peek or two, as needed. Crazy accidents occur, but fun, and eye/hand coordination and acuity improves! You’ll improve faster than you think! Above all, sketches done are not to be seen by others, or for publication, of course. So fear not for failures therein, we all continue to do thousands of lousy doodles, sketches, etc. (even ‘finishes,’ paintings, pages) throughout our lives, despite our striving for the impossible—perfection! (Which can be boring as bloody Hell, if you do achieve it!) So feel free when sketching, anything goes! Pile up filled pads—in a closet, drawer—look at ’em, to see progress—number ‘em, as you go, for this recording of same— COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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your secret! Fotos help, too—if you use them ‘right’, not the reverse: Using you, wrongly! ‘Play’ more, with very thick (soft) leads (on their sides), or bullet-nibbed gray markers, to ‘flow’ shapes onto paper—to keep it simple! Do value-sketches, of anything: your still-life clutter in your studio’s corner, plus life sketches of family, or on the bus, or in the diner… or jot a momentary image on your TV screen. ‘Capture’ it, in essence—forget details! None needed! You’re suddenly Monet/ Degas/Sisley/Pisarro! See light vs. dark, shapes, forms—simply! Anatomy? Musculature? Skeletal structure? Bane of cartoonists? Youbetcha! Those who claim expertise at the above are usually the all-too-obvious worst at depicting same, layering lumpen fake muscles upon muscles, all ‘popping’ and costume-bursting ugly awful distortions of the real thing, displaying their total ignorance of the truth—while drawing their readers’ attention to same, in boastful spotlighting of their fakery! Curious, wot? Yup! ’Twas ever thus! But, hey, muscles don’t tell stories—do they? Nope! Not 10,000 gyms full of ’em! They’re like bricks, making up a wall or a building, which though important to same, like the unseen steel girders and pylons and bearing walls within, are not what our selective visions ‘see’ when essaying the structure. We see its lines, curves, angles, and exterior decorative statements—its character! We see how it dominates its surround, if it blends into the mix, or not! Noel Sickles surprised me speechless, long ago, when he simplified anatomy down to seeing the torso as a sack of potatoes or grain, with a rope around its middle as its waistline! Attach appropriate legs, arms, neck, and head! Simple? Yup—point being, don’t go crazy with what’s under the skin envelope, past the proportional bone/muscle basics of the human body, no two of which are alike. Few Schwarzenneggers out there—nor are they ‘popping’/pumped-up/tensed all the time! But in comic books, they are! Never relaxed and fluid, no! A silly and distracting self-deluded lot of gross-out garbage of anatomical lies in print, displaying their cartoonist-creators’ ignorance in grandstanding ways—while, I’ve noted time and again, for 30 years or so, having no idea at all of how to tell a word-picture story! Which should be priority one ! Get that right, and the rest will fall into place, if one does study! The gestural, attitudinal, emotive, revealing grace of the male/female body is lost on the purveyors of hypermuscled extreme heroes and heroines, always in screaming open-mouthed ugly poses, legs eight feet apart, or pounding villains (can you distinguish them from ugly demonic heroes?) through walls or galaxies?!! Dumb!! A page of panel-to-panel continuity is bollocksed-up into just a series of big oversized leaping punching flying sneering snarling pounding falling crunching bags of fictitiously muscled and proportioned costumed wingnuts overlapping each other, destroying any order of the page’s panel continuity, or caption/dialogue/thotballoon flow for the readers—and obfuscating whatever continuity is there, by such extremist guerrilla-like artwork. Jack Kirby and Romita and Buscema could get away with it—but few, if any, others! And I see it as such a waste of space, and of rambunctious young talent, too full of itself to care to learn the craft! Word/picture continuity/comics, its rules, reasons for same—who broke them, why and how and where? Successfully or not—!? If not, why not? Re texts to recommend: Maynard Dixon, Southwestern deserts landscapist—big picture book, beautiful paintings, very stylized mind you, but so striking, brilliant! Out of print, I’m thinking—get thee to an art book hunter/finder/dealer! Jimmy Swinnerton, one of ol’ Hearst’s pet syndicate cartoonists (like Herriman) was not my cuppa with his Little Jimmy Sundays—but, Lord, what lovely desertscapes he painted, too, in a slim bio/collection volume, with fine (but too small) color repros—his name is its title. Re anatomy texts: Get the original Eadweard Muybridge Human Figure in Motion and Animals in Motion volumes. They’re big, hardcover books—they show male and female nudes in every possible angle of moving, walking, leaping, running, dancing, working, bending, etc., in strips of sequenced fotos-in-series, across big pages. The animals move, too—you see the gait/gallop/trot of ’em all, in front, rear, and profile shots. They are essentially motion pictures, run at speed! Shot singly, across a long tripwired shutter-firing stage—wonderful! 60 or more cameras—klik klik klik—camels, panthers, dogs, cats, elephants, etc., etc. No damn book’ll teach you more/better than you will, yourself, Jan. 2001

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always your own best teacher through life. The learning shouldn’t ever stop. Read it all, study it all, use it all, sift, assess, filter it all, adapt and borrow, but let it you be you. Find your own way, through the maze of all the cross-influences and lies big and small… As for ‘worthier’ texts, I find that the best “how-to’s” on many of the arts/disciplines were written from 1900 to WW2. Graphics, plastic arts, movie techniques, fotowork, industrial design, architecture, you name it—they were solid works, clearly written! So well-illustrated, too—art and fotos, crisply-captioned! Paul: You’ve referred several times to the use of the “third eye” in drawing. Could you expand on what you mean by this?… Do you refer to the necessity, before you commit pencil to paper, to fully visualize your subject first, in the “mind’s eye”? (I recall reading about the art training of a famous painter—it may have been Degas, or John Singer Sargent, I can’t recall—and one exercise he was given was the task of drawing a figure model who had been posed at the top floor of the studio. The only catch was that the students had to do their drawings on the bottom floor, down many flights of stairs! So they were forced to train their powers of observation, memory, and visualization… does this relate to what you were driving at—”visualization”?) Alex: Re ‘third eye’: Apart from all the many mystical/spiritual/psychoactive connotations it suggests—the objective eye, critical eye, is what I think I meant. I can’t claim to visualize, first, the ‘whole’ of anything to be drawn. An ‘effect’, yes, the gist of it, yes, while doodling bits, until lightning strikes—the hoped-for ‘accident’, which links the bits together, brick by brick, layer by layer, again and again. 41

Above: Another Toth oddity: Unpublished two-page spread intended for the DC title, The Outsiders, scenario by Mike W. Barr, words by William Shakespeare, art by Alex Toth. Courtesy of Mike W. Barr. ©2000 Mike W. Barr/Alex Toth.

Lots of erasing and strikeouts before the happy equation’s revealed, the picture-making/storytelling ‘trigger’, ‘blessing from on high’, when God takes pity and—bang!—a flash of the new, or old, but ‘right’, pops into place, and your ‘third eye’ sees it, knows it, and— winks! ‘Cuz it’s good—or just so! As for your Degas/Sargent references—you’re citing London’s Slade School standard operating procedure, as told to me and a whole Society of Illustrators lecture series’ audience of pros, etc. by Robert Fawcett, when I ushered them in the 1940s (and also, I believe, in his American Artist profile of the ’40s, and in his first book, On the Art of Drawing) It’s how he was taught—to ‘see, observe, remember’—the later credo of the Famous Artists course, of which he was co-founder/teacher. Yes, live model or nude, etc., or plaster cast, etc., four flights up. Sit, see, study for 30-45 minutes. Then back downstairs, to easel pads/charcoal, etc., to draw from memory! Then, with instructor, climb back upstairs, take their initial positions in that room, and have drawings/observations critiqued, sharply, by the ol’ boffin! Yup! Fawcett, a bit grimly, said to be suspicious of any drawing that comes too-easy! ‘Every drawing should be a struggle if it’s to be any good’—or some such warning! A masochistic, self-flagellating stance, wot? Paul: I find that it’s a constant struggle to maintain solidity in my drawings. They flatten out, and/or get distorted—and, looking through modern comic art, I see that I’m not alone. The drawings easily become ”warped.” Any thoughts/tips on how you achieve such convincing structure, solidity and three-dimensionality in your work? Alex: Re ‘warping’: Try working smaller, near-print size! Nearer! Large drawings slip out of proportion much too-easily. Use your mirror or window/lamplight, with the page away from you, reversed—to check on what’s ‘off’—and fix it! Of course, anything thicker than two-ply Bristol, forget it!!! Light sources, yes, the ‘keylight’, as you know, puts all in relief—adds weight, mass, sculptural solidity—simply! ThinkThinkThink! SimplifySimplifySimplify! Make one line work for three, or three for a dozen! À là Sickles’ advice—infer/suggest the rest! A camera lens sees all! You don’t have to! You edit! I find your art solid enough, Paul! What the hell are you bitching about?!? Open it up—simplify—use the forms/shapes/light!!

Paul: After studying your artwork, it seems to me that you rarely used so-called “double lighting”—à là Wally Wood, Williamson, or Adams, etc.—lots of reflected light thrown back onto the subject’s shadow side. Why did you avoid it? Was it because you found that it broke up the graphic black masses too much? Was it too “photographic”? Alex: If needed, I used splitlighting, in days of yore—given a good reason, I did! Gimmicky, for me! I tried it, but overdid it—like Wally, and all you cited, did! Schtick!!! Wally’s trademark! He did it well—but didn’t need it, mostly, no! Remember how badly Caniff used it throughout Canyon? Ye gods! Big mop-like brush blacks on faces (all wrong, too!!!) to divide light/color fx! Aarrrgh! But, too, all over unpainted aircraft fuselages and wings!!! Awful! Clutter! Hay! Distracting ugly stuff! So unlike the Milt of Terry years! ‘Til, the end years… now splitlighting’s not rimlighting! Big difference. Watch movies/TV—well, mebbe not! ’Cuz every director/lighting director/cameraman’s doing it, lately, too, too much! Sweaty, slimy, wet-looking folks, faces, beasties, at night, with ‘hot’ splitlighting, all to reveal more creepy textural detail, in two colors, left vs. right—it’s a disease! A plague! In spook/horror/sex/film noir—voluptuous fleshy babes, or scaly monsters! But—in days of less extremes, night scenes used keylight to ‘pull’ a figure from the black-shadowed background/surround, with a softer light on the other side to rimlight figure’s shadow side, to ‘separate’ it, make it ‘whole.’ Without it—using only keylight—you’d have Rembrandt-lighting, on one side—the figure would melt into shadows away from the light! Simple—dramatic—effective— It helps to know facial/figural anatomy, and various weight/ textures/styles of clothing and how they take light and dark! Studystudystudy! Anyhoo—a little glossyglitzyshinywetstuff goes a long way with me. If I need it, I use it—but only then! I’ve done it well—and poorly… it gets in the way of nega/posi/tive shapes in black scenes—nightshots—when/where silhouettes can be so dramatically used. But, nowadays, few cartoonists know how to do so wisely—they just don’t get it! And it ain’t ‘schtick’! Paul: Do you have any specific suggestions as to which materials to use for drawing storyboard art? A lot of people seem to use thinline pencil—but I find it doesn’t reproduce very well unless you press really hard, in which case you often get hand cramps. If you use a softer, blacker lead, you end up with a smeary mess… any thoughts? Alex: As to my storyboarding “standard operating procedure” (not unlike comics): It’s not that critical an issue. We all use our own methods, to suit our temperaments, prejudices, and needs. My likes may run counter to yours, but, being heavy-fisted with pencils and pens and bearing down too much, I have to catch myself at it. I have to consciously back off, ease-up, lighten-up and not dig-in, when facing a big chunk of work to slog through. Eons ago, I deliberately forced myself to pencil/ruff lightly, for looser blocking-in or clean single-lining of shapes, with either a non-repro blue lead (in a clutchpencil) or H and HB! I discovered that, on toothy/kid finish bristol board, an HB lead acted and felt like a 2B! Odd! I used H and HB mostly, then, doing comics, etc., on two-ply or three-ply ‘Strathmore’ or ‘Bainbridge’ (or, in NYC, ‘Art Brown’) bristol. When was the last time you used a ‘stump’/tortillon? For an COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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option to pencils, consider it, as a ruffing-in tool, to keep things light and easy… for a few years, long ago, I used ‘stumps’ thusly—with a scrap sheet aside, loaded with lots of laid-down soft lead on it, I’d lightly pick up some of the graphite on a stump by rolling its tip around on the lead reservoir. Then, I’d ruff-in on my bristol, blockingin figures and shapes, loosely or not, to keep it all simple and easy and light. It left soft thick gray smudge-lines on the paper, and made erasing easy, with a kneaded eraser. I’d use the stump tip’s sides for lightly blocking-in larger/wide smudges of gray to indicate blacks in later inks. If, when inking, you changed your mind as to where the blacks would be, no problem, easily done! But, of course, pre-inks, a regular pencil would be used over the stump-ruffs, to clean-line and detail the figures/faces/BGs/sets/props. At the end, post-inks, erasing clean-ups were easy and fast, no scrubbing the paper because of the light penciling. Try it, on board sheets (of thin paper) for the same reasons/results—it taught me to lighten up my fist, and not dig in to the paper. It freed up my brain/visualizing S.O.P., too—less fuss ’n’ muss ’n’ cleanup, like penciling with smoke across a cloud. All this made inking more fun, too—that black ink is all the blacker—alla prima—over such light/clean/simple/pencils. Try it—you’ll like it, mebbe. The blue pencil (which is waxy/clay-like), non-repro or not, is another option for you—again, lightly-with clutch pencil leads of a variety of grades and diameters! I also learned to use much thicker/softer leads for easy laydown/ruffs—again, to free up my hand, to lighten up. If I didn’t, I’d have lots of shiny-thick lead deposits on the paper, lousy to ink over and to clean up, without scrubbing/smearing a lot and graying-up the ink while doing it, thus needing ink touch-ups. So, to avoid doing that, I’d damned well ‘float’ that soft, thick lead’s tip over the paper… These were tricks/games/self-disciplining/gear-changing devices I employed to avoid tight-fingered, tense, crampy workstyles, to get free and easy and grind out lots of work, and make it fun by doing new novel things—to not get bored, formulaic, stilted, rigid, ossified—deadheaded! So—back to boards— 1. Pencil/ruff—light ‘n’ loose—via stumps/smudges 2. Tight-pencil with normal lead pencil—lightly, too 3. Ink—via markers—or with brush/ink—then erase/light ’n’ easy! 4. ‘Grays’—for shadows—if needed/wanted, via gray, black, sepia, any color—if paper is ‘toothy’ enough, it’ll give you a grainy, textured ‘tone’—when xeroxed, it’ll be gray. These are ‘dry’ tones, via conté crayons (litho), pencils, Schwann clutch pencil ‘leads’ (misnomer) in all colors. 4a. Wet/marker grays—a whole ‘nother thang, hoss! Permanent types are too ‘juicy’, if fresh and new, so care is vital! Waterbased/non-waterproof types are more controllable, ’cuz they don’t blot/spread as much on thin papers like board sheets. Lay down all gray tones first, let ‘em dry, and lay down blacks last! ’Cuz, as you know, grays (or colors) used last, over blacks, gives you mud! They ‘pick up’ black—! I prefer dry graytoning! At H&B—on cheap, thin board sheets, and our small six frames per 8.5”x11” format’s art size, I used litho pencils, with a medium-hard lead. I’d lay the sheet on the rough ‘zolotoned’—painted desktop and apply the litho pencil, which picked up zolotone’s rough texture through the paper, thus breaking up the litholead laydown—voilá—grainy gray! By the way, art suppliers sell textured/embossed thickish mylar sheets, 9”x12”-ish, in sets of four or six, with a variety of textures for just such applications. Cheap, too—handy! Inquire about ’em—one or two sheets have irregular/mezzotint/stipple patterns and textures. The others are wood grain, linen, laddered or railroad line patterns, à là charcoal papers— Paul: In assessing some animation storyboard samples that I sent you, you referred to “wasteful animation/layout/camera moves/ art.” Could you explain this in more detail—what you meant by “the economy of the H&B approach—making one setup work for three or four setups”? Should “master shots” be used more? Alex: Yes, the old workhorse, the establishing/master shot, with variegated cut-ins, is just part of my meaning… It’s head/figure work, too—characters—I include here. Subtle eye/eyebrow/ Jan. 2001

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mouth/lip/head moves can underscore a line of dialogue, or a silent reaction take, better than all the head-bobbing/snap-turning/eyerolling/popping/fish-mouthing excesses I see in Satmornkidvidkrap— 30 bloody years of it! No one’s learned a thing! The art of the ‘minimal’ gesture—something natural and lowkey, with the right timing, can be gangbusters! Little tics, face, head, body, as any fine seasoned actor gives to his character in any scene. But, this may be counter to the studio bosses’ demands, I’m afraid— they want too much of everything to make it look good, and move like a runaway bus! If your boards are comicbookishly-oriented/sourced/styled, then think and draw dynamic shapes as always, outline ‘em, then drop shadows onto ‘em, to make ‘em pop off the BGs and board frames! Think Harvey Kurtzman! His own bold cartoony treatments—gag or semi-straight! Think Hugo Pratt—loose, but dramatic, no fussiness— stark, maybe. But—use a key light source, in any given location or scene—milk it! Top light, side, low, soft, hard light… inside or outside, day or night, misty or bright, high or low key light. Silhouettes? (Not enough is done with ’em, I note—and if so, not well! Our strongest imagery in our graphic lexicon, and it is all—but ignored! For set pieces, figures, mysterioso, etc.) Eye-appealing silhouettes can frame a shot, separate planes of depth, so simply, dramatically, be it up-front or b/g. A silhouette is strong, easy to read, if well thought out and drawn, for static or moving shapes! Think drop shadows, across figures, for separation, weight, mass, solidity, against others, or a b/g—light vs. dark vs. light, always! It will make your grinding work more fun! When I took on a few Super friends boards in the ’70s, at H&B (at a time when the stick figure rush-rush board was the norm, deadlines the curse, but giving layout no help at all), my aim was to deliver simple, fully drawn and inked—and even toned—

Above: Recovered from the trash by Paul Powers, here’s a rare look at an in-progress page by the master, apparently an abandoned (Jesse Bravo?) story, “Stop That Man!” ©2000 Alex Toth. Below: A sample of Paul Rivoche’s fine work from a recent “Batman Black and White” back-up, edited by Mark Chiarello, and written by some guy named Paul Levitz. ©2000 DC Comics.

boards! For layout to blow-up/trace/use as they needed to. I wanted to at least give ’em substance and visible continuity, staging, lighting, composition, set and locale designs, etc., in those 2”x3” frames. My producer was told I’d take a bit longer, but the time’d not be wasted, ’cuz it’d come back, in spades, in layout! With clean, clear, thought-out setups traceable/useable—and—it did! Resulting in Sebast/Tufts’ hiring, to do the same! It was a boost to all! But, in truth, it was no more than doing the job right—as we’d done, as a norm, years before! So my sleepless nights, miles of cigarettes, and oceans of coffee didn’t go for naught—well worth the turnaround effect it had on production! The stick figure/zero value boarders were swept away—believe it or not, in our ‘jam’ days there, layout worked from the scripts! No boards! A mess! Paul: Going back to comics, I personally love your work on “Daddy and the Pie”—it’s one of my favorite stories in comics form. Is there anything you can pass on about how that story came to be? For example, did you have input into it, modify the story somewhat as you drew it, or was it all there in Bill DuBay’s script?… Alex: Re ‘Daddy and the Pie’—DuBay’s script was good picture story fare. I cringe, though, seeing ‘Pie’—too poorly drawn, long, gangly, but, here ’n’ there, some tiebreakers—DuBay wrote sequel, a

Xerox of the first, damn near! I turned it down! What’s the point of a dupe? He had someone else do it—it got done! Dunno why, though! Paul: I believe that you once said that you “blew the ending” of ‘Burma Sky.’ I’ve always loved that whole story, so naturally I’m curious to understand why you think the ending doesn’t work—? What am I missing— how would you change it? Alex: Re ‘Burma Sky’: the last page(s) of the Gladiator pilot in head/bust shots—nope! Wrongly done! Needed more work! It chugged along okay ‘til then! Dunno now how I’d re-do ‘em—vs. script—etc.? It needed more than I gave it—I’ll take the blame! My third eye went to sleep then. ‘Burma Sky’ and ‘White Devil’ were drawn fullsized (10” x 15”). My two ‘Fox’ tales, ‘Oolala,’ and a few Warren tone jobs were near—or actual—print size pages! Paul: Any final words and advice for those out there sincerely aspiring to improve their artwork? Alex: Go to nature! Truth! Reality! Life! To learn, to draw/paint/sculp/fotograph/write about what really is! And not another artist’s view of same as gospel—‘cuz it just ain’t! Can’t be! It’s but an interpretive rendition! Taking life classes, drawing the model in many poses, from fluid candid ‘quickie’ five-minute warm-up sketches, to 15-minute/half-hour/hour studies, then back to loose easy quickies at the end of three-hour sessions, is good for you. Formally—but a pocket pad for ‘on the spot’ sketching out in your daily world is better for you— to teach you—the truth, your way, with no thought about ‘style/technique’ or 12 other guys’ way of drawing the same—not important! The art of lettering, of coloring, too, to be learned well, is of prime value to all cartoonists—to reflect you, be you, your very unique personal you! To take the blame—or credit—for the whole job of it! Great satisfaction comes from being author of all bits of the whole! Doing it—your way! Lumpen bloody ugly at first, maybe, but soon, through study and practice, you’ll improve—to professional levels of quality, freeing you of many fears, ’til it’ll be more like play than work! And you’ll do better every crack at it—and won’t ever take any of it for granted again! With your pro eyes peeled, you’ll see countless inspiring examples of these arts, to emulate, to kick you out of complacent ruts which you mistakenly thought were your ‘grooves’! The more you learn, the more you’ll discover how little you know—yup! The fun of it will just begin for you then—to know truth, about you, your craft, and fully appreciate all the many variegated options, possibilities, ways, and means, to do the job, which you’ll find and be dazzled by out there! Learn! Experiment, always, with new basic tools, methods, and viewpoints, and resist smugly and lazily settling down into comfy, predictable ruts! Be a student—lifelong! Don’t play maestro! It’s a killer, for adding to the accumulation of knowledge! Stay the wide-eyed student who needs to know more! Stay curious! For you! To better your craft—give 110% as often as you can—more—tho’ times’ll grind you down to lower numbers—that’s life! Demand more from yourself, your talent, than any editor or publisher will! Be tough on you! Push your pill uphill! Alone! It’ll pay great dividends! And money’ll be the least of it—that will take care of itself! Love your craft—if you don’t, get the hell out of it! If you work only for the check, then leave! Or find ways to love the medium, craft of it, ’til something good clicks and you deserve—and enjoy, and are grateful—to be in it! Find your own ‘Holy Grail’—use your skills tastefully! You must be your own best teacher all your life—with no ‘middleman’ to muck it up/confuse/dazzle you, with peripheral concerns having nothing to do with the truth, as you see it, draw it— your truth! It’ll carry you through your life! Paul: Thank you for taking the time to do this! COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

Jan. 2001

CBA’s Jon Cooke is back in April! Make ready for COMIC BOOK CREATOR, the new voice of the comics medium! TwoMorrows is proud to debut our newest magazine, COMIC BOOK CREATOR, devoted to the work and careers of the men and women who draw, write, edit, and publish comics, focusing always on the artists and not the artifacts, the creators and not the characters. Behind an ALEX ROSS cover painting, our frantic FIRST ISSUE features an investigation of the oft despicable treatment JACK KIRBY endured from the very business he helped establish. From being cheated out of royalties in the ’40s and bullied in the ’80s by the publisher he made great, to his estate’s current fight for equitable recognition against an entertainment monolith where his characters have generated billions of dollars, we present Kirby’s cautionary tale in the eternal struggle for creator’s rights. Plus, CBC #1 interviews artist ALEX ROSS and writer KURT BUSIEK, spotlights the last years of writer/artist FRANK ROBBINS, remembers comics historian LES DANIELS, sports a color gallery of WILL EISNER’s Valentines to his beloved, showcases a joint talk between NEAL ADAMS and DENNIS O’NEIL on their unforgettable collaborations, as well as throws a whole kit’n’caboodle of other creator-centric items atcha! Join us for the start of a new era as TwoMorrows welcomes back former Comic Book Artist editor JON B. COOKE, who helms the all-new, allcolor COMIC BOOK CREATOR!

80 pages • $8.95 All-color • Quarterly Digital Edition: $3.95 COMING THIS JULY: COMIC BOOK CREATOR #2 (double-size Summer Special) Former COMIC BOOK ARTIST editor JON B. COOKE returns to TwoMorrows with his new magazine! #1 features: An investigation of the treatment JACK KIRBY endured through FRANK ROBBINS spotlight, rememberreturns to TwoMorrows with his new magazine! #1 features: An investigation of the treatment JACK KIRBY endured through FRANK ROBBINS spotlight, remembertures: An investigation of the treatment JACK KIRBY ing LES DANIELS, WILL EISNER’s Valentines to his beloved, a talk between NEAL ADAMS and DENNIS O’NEIL, new ALEX ROSS cover, and more! (84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $17.95 (Digital Edition) $6.95 • Ships July 2013

4-issue Subscriptions • PRINT: $36 US with FREE Digital Editions • DIGITAL: $15.80 ($45 First Class US • $50 Canada • $65 First Class International • $95 Priority International) Subscriptions include the double-size Summer Special

Dept. of Anal Retention

Alex Toth: A Comic Art Index Jim Vadeboncoeur’s Exhaustive Checklist on the Work of the Master

SOME NOTES ON THIS CHECKLIST: As we hope you’ve ascertained already upon reading this issue of CBA, we firmly believe Alex Toth is one of the very small handful of great comic book artists whose work can be heralded as truly genius. And, because his work is scattered—gems among the rough—in myriad titles spanning the history of the art form, we feel a definitive index of Toth work is of paramount importance. We hope you’ll use it on your collecting adventures.

Though this is probably about as complete a checklist of Alex Toth’s work as you’ll ever find, there is little doubt some errors and omissions slipped in, mostly due to Ye Ed and not CBA contributor Jim Vadeboncoeur, who very kindly donated use of his exhaustive index to us. Please note this version is more properly an adaptation of Jim’s work as some attributes of his research were edited out for space and clarity (though I’ve retained as many of Jim’s editorial comments as possible), and I’ve alphabet-

ized the publishers differently. As he last updated the listings in 1997, I have done my best to bring this up to the present day and, as aforementioned, mistakes are bound to be found so please contact CBA if you have any corrections. My enormous gratitude—and profound apologies for the liberties taken—to Jim V. for his contribution and continuing support. Also, thanks to The Mad Peck, Bill Alger, Dylan Williams, Arlen Schumer, Don Mangus, and Les Daniels for their help.—JBC

419 Black Canary 425 The Wings of Jealous Gods 431 Is a Snerl Human?

8 8 8

5/72 12/72 1/74

ADVENTURE COMICS DIGEST 491 Black Canary (rep. ADVENTURE #418) 492 Black Canary (rep. ADVENTURE #419) 495 Yesterday’s Clues (w/ F. Giacoia) 496 Tomorrow’s Answers (with Frank Giacoia) 497 All Together Now (with Dan Adkins)

8 8 9 9 9

9/82 10/82 1/83 2/83 3/83

ADVENTURES OF REX THE WONDER DOG 1 cover (with Sy Barry) Trail of the Flower of Evil (with Sy Barry) Rex—Forest Ranger (with ??) 2 cover Rex—Hollywood Stunt Dog (with Sy Barry) Four-Legged Sheriff (with Sy Barry) 3 cover (with Joe Giella?) Rex-Circus Detective (with Frank Giacoia?)

1 8 8 1 10 8 1 8

1/52

ALL-AMERICAN COMICS 87 How Dr. Midnight Captured Big Shot Barnes 88 Tarantula Unmasks Dr. Midnite 92 cover The Icicle Goes South 96 cover Mystery of the Emerald Necklace 97 cover 98 cover The End of Sports 99 cover Nest of Terror 100 cover Johnny Thunder 101 cover Masquerade at Mesa City 102 cover The Bridge of Peril

6 7 1 12 1 12 1 1 12 1 12 1 10 1 8 1 12

The End of Johnny Thunder (with Joe Giella) 8 115 cover 1 Cheyenne Mystery (with Joe Giella) 10 116 cover 1 Buffalo Raiders on the Mesa (with Joe Giella) 12 117 cover is not Toth (Infantino & Giella ??) Johnny Thunder vs. Black Lightning (w. J. Giella) 12 118 cover is not Toth Challenge of the Aztecs (with Joe Giella) 12 119 The Vanishing Gold Mine (with Frank Giacoia) 12 120 Ambush at Painted Mountain (with Sy Barry) 12 121 cover 1 The Unmasking of Johnny Thunder (w/S.Barry) 12 122 cover 1 The Real Johnny Thunder (with Sy Barry) 10 123 JT’s Strange Rival (with Sy Barry) 8 124 cover (with ??) 1 The Iron Horse’s Last Run 6 125 cover (with Sy Barry) 1 Johnny Thunder’s Last Roundup (w/ Sy Barry) 8 126 no Toth

STORY TITLE (WITH INKING CREDITS)

AARDVARK-VANAHEIM SWORDS OF CEREBUS 4 inside front cover

PAGES

DATE

FA/82

ACE (’80s) THE COSMIC BOOK 1 UFO and the Perts vs the Experts

12/86

WHAT IS… THE FACE? 3 cover

8/87

ATLAS/SEABOARD SAVAGE COMBAT TALES 2 Warhawk

4/75

THRILLING ADVENTURE 2 A Job Well Done

8/75

8 8

10/84

CATALAN COMMUNICATIONS TORPEDO 1936 1 If I’d killed her… (Thelma) There’s no such thing… (I’m Luca/Luke) (b&w reprints of Spanish strips) CHARLTON MY ONLY LOVE 3 The Loveliest of All

11/75

REAL WEST cover cover

1 1

12/72 4/73

YELLOWJACKET 7 Little Laffs

1/46

COMICO SPACE GHOST 1 Afterward (two model sheets)

12/87

CONTINUITY ECHO OF FUTUREPAST 6 Torpedo ’36 Her name was Thelma… episode 8 (color rep. of European strip, retranslated.) 7 Torpedo ’36 The name’s Luke, the Torpedo.. 8 (color rep. of European strip, retranslated.)

7/85 8/85

DARK HORSE MADMAN 3 back cover pin-up 1 1994 A card from the Dark Horse card set 1994 DC-NATIONAL ACTION COMICS 406 The Challenge of the Expanding World 13 11/71 (rep. BRAVE AND BOLD #53-part 1&2) 407 The Challenge of the Expanding World 13 12/71 (rep. 2nd half of B&B #53 with one additional page comprised of art from first half.) 413 The Man Who Destroyed Eclipso (rep. HOS #65)13 6/72 616 cover 1 9/6/88 ADVENTURE COMICS 418 Black Canary 46

4/72

ALL-AMERICAN WESTERN 103 cover City Without Guns 104 cover Unseen Allies 105 cover Hidden Guns (with Frank Giacoia) 106 cover Snow Mountain Ambush 107 cover Cheyenne Justice (with Frank Giacoia) 108 cover Vengeance of the Silver Bullet 109 cover Secret of Crazy River 110 cover Ambush at Scarecrow Hills (with Joe Giella) 111 cover The Gun-Shy Sheriff (with Joe Giella?) 112 cover is by Gil Kane Double Danger 113 cover Johnny Thunder Indian Chief (with Joe Giella) 114 cover

1 10 1 10 1 10 1 10 1 12 1 12 1 10 1 10 1 10

3/52 5/52

7/47 8/47 12/47

10/50 12/50 2/51 4/51 6/51 8/51 10/51 12/51 2/52 4/52 6/52

ALL STAR COMICS 37 Justice Society of America chapters 5 & 6 38 cover 1st & last chapters (pages. 1-12 and 35-38) 40 The Plight of a Nation, part 3 41 cover

10 1 16 12 1

10/47 12/47

ALL-STAR WESTERN 58 Gunlords of the Panhandle (w/ B. Sachs) 59 Code of a Ranger (with Bernard Sachs) 60 The Nest of the Robber Rangers (w/ B. Sachs) 61 The Roving Ranger 63 Find My Killer (with Bernard Sachs) 64 The Riddle of the Rival Ranger (with ??)

8 8 8 2 6 6

4/51 6/51 8/51 10/51 2/52 4/52

AMERICA AT WAR (Fireside paperback) nn The Glory Boys (rep. OAAW #235)

1979

BATMAN ADVENTURES 25 one page poster

11/94

4/49

BIG TOWN 8 cover 9 cover 10 cover 11 cover 12 cover 13 cover

1 1 1 1 1 1

8/51 9/51 10/51 11/51 12/51 1/52

6/49

BLACK CANARY ARCHIVES V1 Black Canary (reprints ADVENTURE #418-419) 16

2000

8/49

BLACKHAWK 260 Barnacle Bill (with Frank Giacoia)

7/83

10/49

THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD 53 The Challenge of the Expanding World

4/64

COMIC CAVALCADE 23 cover 26 Forecast: Danger 27 cover April Fool’s Day Crimes 28 Treasure of Plateau City

1 12 1 13 12

10/47 4/48 6/48

4/48 5/48 6/48 7/48 8/48 9/48 10/48

11/48 12/48 1/49 2/49

12/49 2/50

10 1 12 1

8/50

4/50 6/50

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

4/48 6/48

8/48

Jan. 2001

# STORY TITLE (WITH INKING CREDITS) PAGES DATE DALE EVANS COMICS 1 The Case of the Terrified Tenderfoot 8 9/48 (with Frank Giacoia) 2 The Case of the Battered Balloonist 7 11/48 (Gunsel in splash is Toth self-portrait) 3 The Case of the Perfumed Plunder 8 1/49 4 The Case of the Outdated Outlaw 8 3/49 5 The Case of the Forgotten Stagecoach 8 5/49 6 The Case of the Colossal Fossil 8 7/49 7 The Case of the Teetering Tower 8 9/49 8 The Case of the Five-Cent Fortune 8 11/49 (Toth doubts he did this despite his signature) 9 The Case of the Haunted Horse (with J. Giella) 8 1/50 10 The Case of the Oily Worm 8 3/50 11 The Case of the Furious Fiddler (with ??) 8 5/50

31 Beauty and the Fool 33 cover Crime Goes West 34 cover Meets the Princess 35 Smash Finale Cappy 36 cover Mystery of the Missing Messenger Natch 37 cover The Unexpected Guest Dog Hero of the Month Too Many Suspects (with Frank Giacoia) 38 cover The Double Play (with Joe Kubert?) Snowball

12 1 12 1 12 7 1 1 8 1 1 8 2 12 1 10 1

DANGER TRAIL 1 Appointment In Paris 8 2 Toreador From Texas (done w/ Speedball lettering pen) 10 3 Battle Flag of the Foreign Legion (Toth lettering) 8 4 The End of the Arctic (with Bernard Sachs) 8 5 The Return of the Pharaoh 8

7/50 9/50 11/50 1/51 3/51

GREEN LANTERN (second series) 86 The Icicle Goes South (rep. AAC #92) 171 Shelflife (with Terry Austin)

12 17

10/71 12/83 5/71

DC COMICS PRESENTS 84 Give Me Power… Give Me Your World (pgs. 3-9 only) (Greg Theakston inks)

HEART THROBS 131 His Other Love (with Sy Barry) 6 (Heavily retouched rep. of SECRET HEARTS #22)

8/85

DC 100 PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR 17 JSA chptrs 5 & 6 (rep. ALL STAR #37) 20 The Case of Dr. Midnight (rep. AA #88)

10 7

6/73 9/73

DC SPECIAL 3 Girl in the Golden Flower (rep. SA #18 ) 6 13 The World Where Dreams Come True (rep. MISE #7) 10

5/69 7/71

HOT WHEELS 1 cover (with Dick Giordano) Wipe Out at Le Mans (with Dick Giordano) 2 Dragstrip Finals (with Dick Giordano) 3 Stakeout (with Vince Colletta) 4 Eye of the Storm 5 cover The Case of the Curious Classic (also script)

DC SPECIAL BLUE RIBBON DIGEST 6 Burma Sky (rep. OUR FIGHTING FORCES #146) 7 20 Bride of the Falcon (rep. SHOSL #3) 36 21 White Devil… Yellow Devil (rep. SSWS #164) 8 24 The Stuff That Dreams Are Made Of (rep. HOS #63) 7 Born Loser (rep. HOUSE OF MYSTERY #194) 10

3/81 4/82 5/82 8/82

DETECTIVE COMICS 143 The Case of the Teetering Tower (rep DE #7) 8 11/49 414 Australian Code Mystery (rep. WF #66) 10 8/71 416 Rex-Circus Detective (with Frank Giacoia?) 8 10/71 (credits here say Sy Barry) (rep. REX #3) 418 The Case of the Terrified Tenderfoot 8 12/71 (rep. DALE EVANS #1 )(credits here say Frank Giacoia inks) 424 The Case of the Teetering Tower (rep. DE #7) 8 6/72 440 Too Many Suspects (rep. GL #37 ) 12 4/74 441 The Two Faces of Doom (rep. HOM #66) 12 6/74 442 Death Flies the Haunted Skies 11 8/74 443 The End of Sports (rep. ALL AMERICAN #98) 12 10/74 444 The Case of the Haunted Horse (rep. DE #9) 8 12/74 FROM BEYOND THE UNKNOWN 2 The Brain Masters of Polaris (rep. SA #12)

12/69

GIRLS’ LOVE STORIES 1 Unlucky Heart (with Bernard Sachs) 2 Girl In the Shadows (with ??) 3 The World is Ours 4 Where There is Love (with Joe Giella) The Magic Moment 92 Web of Heartbreak (with Bernard Sachs)

8 9 1 8 1 7

8/49 10/49 12/49 2/50

GIRLS’ ROMANCES 1 Love in Season 2 Tragic Choice (with Frank Giacoia) 3 Out of Sight… Out of Heart 13 cover

1 10 8 1

2/50 4/50 6/50 2/52

THE GREATEST BATMAN STORIES EVER TOLD Death Flies the Haunted Skies (rep. DC #442) 11

1988

THE GREATEST GOLDEN AGE STORIES EVER TOLD The Icicle Goes South (rep. AA #92) 12 Justice Society of America chapters 5 & 6 10 (rep. ALL STAR #37)

1989

THE GREATEST 1950s STORIES EVER TOLD Queen of the Snows (rep. SC #107) The Unmasking of Johnny Thunder (rep. ALL-AMERICAN WESTERN #121)

8 12

1990

THE GREATEST TEAM-UP STORIES EVER TOLD The Challenge of the Expanding World (rep. BRAVE & BOLD #53)

GREEN LANTERN 28 The Fool Comes to Town 12 The Tricks of the Sportsmaster (splash by I. Hasen) 12 30 cover 1 The Saga of Streak 12 The Fatal Chance (with ??) 12 Jan. 2001

1/63

1989

10/47 2/48

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

3/48 7/48 9/48

11/48

1/49 13 3/49 14 5/49 15 18

1 23 14 13 15 1 16

5/70 7/70 9/70 11/70

9 8 7 11 11 12

4/61 3/62 3/65 9/69 1/70 7/70

10 10 8 12

2/71 9/71 11/71 7/70

HOUSE OF SECRETS 48 The Great Dimensional Brain Swap 8 63 Eclipso’s Amazing Ally 12 64 Hideout on Fear Island 13 65 The Man Who Destroyed Eclipso 13 66 The Two Faces of Doom 12 67 Challenge of the Split Man 13 83 The Stuff That Dreams Are Made Of 7 93 The Curse of the Cat’s Cradle (rep. MGA #85) 8 94 Track of the Invisible Beast (rep. HOM #109) 9 96 Great Dimensional Brain Swap (rep. HOS #48) 8 98 Secret Hero of Center City (rep. HOM #120) 8 123 A Connecticut Ice Cream Man in King Arthur’s Court 12

9/61 11/63 1/64 3/64 5/64 7/64 12/69 8/71 10/71 2/72 6/72 9/74

HOUSE OF MYSTERY 109 Track of the Invisible Beast 120 Secret Hero of Center City 149 The Town That Buried Me - Alive 182 The Devil’s Doorway 184 Turner’s Treasure 187 Mask of the Red Fox 189 no Toth - listed as rep. in PG. 190 Fright 194 Born Loser 196 The Alien Within Me (rep. MGA #60) 229 Mask of the Red Fox (rep. HOS #187)

3/70

JIMMY WAKELY (book forced on Toth, he didn’t enjoy it at all) 1 splash page 1 9/49 The Cowboy Swordsman (with F. Giacoia) 11 Jinx Town Lives Again (with Frank Giacoia) 8 The Treasure of Outcast Ridge (with F. Giacoia) 8 2 The Trail of the Compass (with Joe Giella) 9 11/49 The Prize Pony (with Bernard Sachs) 10 The Secret of the Wooden Indian (w/ B. Sachs) 8 3 The Return of Tulsa Tom (with ??) 11 1/50 Prairie Town’s 30-Day Wonder (with ??) 10 The Comeback Trail (with ??) 6 3/50 4 Where There’s Smoke There’s Gunfire (w/ J. Giella)11 Outlaws of the Night (with Joe Giella) 8 JW and the Hollywood Queen (poss. not Toth) 6 5 The Return of the Conquistadors (with J. Giella)11 5/50 Sing, Cowboy, Sing (with Bernard Sachs) 8 Bullets are Bad Luck (with Joe Giella) 8 6 The Two Lives of JW (with Joe Giella) 11 7/50 The Mesa of Murderous Melody (with J. Giella) 8 The Treasure at Rainbow’s End (with Joe Giella) 6 7 The Secret of Hairpin Canyon (with B. Sachs) 9 9/50 Desert Justice (with Frank Giacoia) 8 8 cover (Hasen & Giacoia) 11/50 The Lost City of Blue Valley (with B. Sachs) 11 Big Town Roundup (with Bernard Sachs) 8 The Town That Cried Wolf (with B. Sachs) 8 9 cover 1 1/51 Return of the Western Firebrand (w/ B. Sachs) 9 Gunmen’s Barricade (Not Toth probably Carmine Infantino with Joe Giella) The Secret of the Old Sourdough (with B. Sachs)8 10 cover (Kubert & ?) 3/51

The Secret of Lantikin’s Light (with Joe Giella) 9 The Town That Vanished (with ??) 8 Brand of the Badmen (with Bernard Sachs) 10 The Trail of a Thousand Hoofs (with B. Sachs) 11 Showdown at Sante Fe (with Joe Giella) 8 The King of Sierra Valley (with ??) 12 The Magic Wand of Katawan (with Sy Barry) 8 Jimmy Wakely vs Jimmy Wakely (w/ F. Giacoia) 8 cover 1 Raiders of Treasure Mountain (with B. Sachs) 12 Death Valley Ambush (with Frank Giacoia) 8 Return of the Golden Herd (with Sy Barry) 9 cover 1 The Badmen of Roaring Flame Valley 10 The Return of the White Stallion (w/ Joe Giella) 6 Jailbreak for Sale 8 The Ballad of Boulder Bluff (w/ Frank Giacoia) 6 (no Toth)

JOHNNY THUNDER 1 cover (rep. ALL-AMERICAN WESTERN #121) 1 The City Without Guns (rep. AAW #103) 10 Johnny Thunder’s Last Roundup (rep. AAW #125) 8 2 cover (rep. ALL-AMERICAN WESTERN #113) 1 3 cover (rep. ALL-AMERICAN WESTERN #122) 1 The Real Johnny Thunder (rep. AAW #122) 10 JONAH HEX AND OTHER WESTERN TALES 2 Anachronism (rep. WEIRD WESTERN TALES #14)

5/51 7/51 9/51

11/51

1/52

2/73 4/73 7/73

1/79

JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA 110 The Plight of a Nation, part 3 (rep. ASC #40) 12 113 The Case of the Patriot Crimes 1 (splash credited to Toth)(rep. ALL STAR #41?)

3/74 9/74

LIMITED COLLECTORS’ EDITION C23 The Devil’s Doorway (rep. HOM #182) C41 cover inside front cover Super Friends continuity pages tie up page TV Cartoons (+ script) (w/Bob Foster) Toth biography back cover (also used as inside front cover) C46 The JLA on TV (model sheets) C52 Dirty Job (rep. OUR ARMY AT WAR #241)

11 WIN/73 1 12/75 1 3 2 1 10 1 1 3 WIN/73 4 1977

MY GREATEST ADVENTURE 58 I Was Trapped in the Land of L’Oz 60 The Alien Within Me 61 I Battled For the Doom Stone 77 We Found the Super Tribes of Tomorrow 81 Listen, World… I’m the Missing Link 82 (letter column bio of Toth) 85 The Curse of the Cat’s Cradle

8 8 8 9 9 1 8

MYSTERY IN SPACE 1 The Man Who Lived Forever (with Sy Barry) 10 6 The Boy Who Saved the Earth (Poss. Toth & Sachs) 6 7 cover (Poss. Toth) 1 The World Where Dreams Come True 8 (with Sy Barry or possibly Jerry Grandenetti?) 13 (no Toth - listed in PG) 40 Secrets of the Star Warriors 6 (with Sy Barry/probably Infantino pencils)

8/61 10/61 11/61 3/63 8/63 2/64 4/51 2/52 4/52 4/53 10/57

OUR ARMY AT WAR 235 Glory Boys 241 Dirty Job 254 The Tally

6 4 8

8/71 2/72 2/73

OUR FIGHTING FORCES 134 Soldier’s Grave 146 Burma Sky

8 7

11/71 12/73

THE PHANTOM STRANGER 15 I Battled For the Doom Stone (rep. MGA #61) 8

9/71

PLASTIC MAN ARCHIVES V1 Cover

1998

PLOP! 11 Plop

4/75

RIP HUNTER TIME MASTER 6 Secret of the Ancient Seer 7 Lost Wanderers in Time (last 8 pages are with Mike Esposito)

25 25

2/62 4/62

ROMANCE TRAIL 1 Escape From Love (with Frank Giacoia) 2 Imprisoned Heart (with ?) Prairie Song 3 Yesterday’s Sweetheart (with Joe Giella?) 4 The Fearful Heart (with Frank Giacoia)

12 11 1 9 11

7/49 9/49 11/49 1/50 47

# STORY TITLE (WITH INKING CREDITS) PAGES DATE SECRET HEARTS 1 Make Believe Sweetheart (with ??) 7 9/49 2 I’ll Never Forget You (with ??) 12 11/49 It All Came True 1 3 Sing Me a Love Song (with ??) 10 1/50 4 You Only Love Once (with Joe Giella?) 10 3/50 5 Wake Up and Love (with Joe Giella) 11 5/50 22 Uncertain Past (with Sy Barry) 6 7/54 141 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 2 (with V. Colletta) 8 1/70 142 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 3 (with V. Colletta) 8 3/70 143 Masquerade 6 4/70 149 David (with Dick Giordano) 9 1/71

The Mark of the Witch (w/ Bill Draut-no credit) 9 no title-framing page 1 no title-framing page 1 12 no title-framing page 1 Double Edge 8 38 Eternal Hour (rep. WITCHING HOUR #1) 8 The Demon in the Mirror (rep. SC #109) 8 WORLD’S FINEST COMICS 54 (per Gary Cooper - rumor) 66 Australian Code Mystery 224 Behind the Scenes with the Super Friends 226 Eclipso’s Amazing Ally (rep. HOS #63) 228 Hideout on Fear Island (rep. HOS #64)

12/70 1/74

10 3 12 13

9/53 8/74 11/74 3/75 4/69 5/69 1/70 3/70 2/75 11/76 1/77 3/77

SENSATION COMICS 91 Streak, Special Prosecutor 7 92 Wonder Dog of the Month - Brownie 2 107 Queen of the Snows (with Sy Barry) 8 (people think Toth also did the cover. Could be, but I’d guess Mort Drucker and Sy Barry.) 108 I Was King of the Moths (with Sy Barry) 8 109 The Demon in the Mirror (with Sy Barry) 8

3/52 5/52

SGT. ROCK 385 Soldier’s Grave (rep. OUR FIGHTING FORCES #134) 8

2/84

YOUNG LOVE 73 When Love Has Gone 74 Hide Your Love 6 78 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 1 (w/ V. Colletta) 8 79 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 4 (w/ V. Colletta) 8 114 Love Is a Dirty Word (rep. ??) 16 122 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 1 (rep. YL #78) 8 123 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 2 (rep. SH #141) 8 124 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 3 (with V. Colletta) 8 (rep. SECRET HEARTS #142) 125 20 Miles to Heartbreak-part 4 (rep. YL #79) 8

SGT. ROCK SPECIAL 2 The Tally (rep. OUR ARMY AT WAR #254) 11 Dirty Job (rep. OUR ARMY AT WAR #241)

8 4

1988 3/91

YOUNG ROMANCE 163 Next Door to Love-1 (with Dick Giordano) 164 Next Door to Love-2 (with Dick Giordano)

10 10

1/70 3/70

SHOWCASE 72 Unseen Allies (rep. AAW #104)

1/68

SINISTER HOUSE OF SECRET LOVE 3 Bride of the Falcon (with Frank Giacoia) (inks on pgs. 1-11 by Doug Wildey)

2/72

DELL/WESTERN/GOLD KEY BORIS KARLOFF TALES OF MYSTERY 5 Possessed

STAR SPANGLED WAR STORIES 164 White Devil… Yellow Devil

8/72

STRANGE ADVENTURES 8 Time Capsule For Tomorrow (with Sy Barry) 9 Push-Button Paradise (with Bernard Sachs) 12 The Brain Masters of Polaris (with Sy Barry) 13 Artist of Other Worlds (with Sy Barry?) 17 The Brain of Dr. Royer (with Bernard Sachs) 18 Girl in the Golden Flower (with Sy Barry) 19 The Canals of Earth (with ??)

10 8 10 10 8 6 6

5/51 6/51 9/51 10/51 2/52 3/52 4/52

SUPER DC GIANT S23 The Demon in the Mirror (rep. SC #109)

3/71

SUPERMAN ANNUAL 9 Villain! Villain! Who’s Got the Villain! (w/ T. Austin) 30

1982

SUPERMAN THE MAN OF STEEL GALLERY 1 (one page poster)

12/95

THE UNEXPECTED 126 The Town That Buried Me—Alive (rep. HOM #149)7 127 Queen of the Snows (rep. SC #107) 8

8/71 9/71

THE VERTIGO GALLERY: DREAMS AND NIGHTMARES 1 Golden Age Sandman pin-up 1

1995

WEIRD WAR TALES 5 no title-framing pages no title-framing pages 6 no title-framing pages no title-framing pages 10 Who is Haunting the Haunted Chateau? WEIRD WESTERN TALES 14 Anachronism THE WITCHING HOUR 1 no title-framing pages Eternal Hour 3 no title-framing pages The Turn of the Wheel (with Vince Colletta) 4 Witching Hour Welcome Wagon no title-framing pages 5 no title-framing pages no title-intro page no title-framing page 7 no title-framing pages no title-intro page no title-intro page no title-framing page 8 Comput/err (+ script) 9 no title-framing pages (with Bill Draut) no title-intro page no title-intro pages 10 no title-framing pages (with Bill Draut) no title-intro page Hold Softly, Hand of Death no title-framing page 11 no title-framing pages 48

3 2 3 2 10 8 5 8 3 8 3 2 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 6 2 1 1 2 1 11 1 2

7/49 8/49 1/52

5/72 7/72 1/73 10/72 1/69 6/69 8/69 10/69 2/70

4/70 6/70 8/70

10/70

5/77

10/63

BUFFALO BILL, JR. AND CALAMITY COLORING BOOK nn Whitman 83/8” x 105/8” 96 (96 full-page line drawings in black-&-white)

1957

COLT .45 6 The Gunslinger

8/60

FLYING A’s RANGE RIDER 17 Nitro

3/57

4/57

2 32 32 1 32

8/57 8/57

FOUR COLOR 790 The Wings of Eagles (w/ Howard O’Donnell—per HO’D) Naval Aviation Firsts 822 Paul Revere’s Ride 845 The Land Unknown Antarctica The Frozen South 846 Gun Glory 877 Frontier Doctor Storm Over King City Apache Uprising Before the Doctors Came West The First Patent Medicines 882 Zorro Presenting Senior Zorro Zorro’s Secret Passage 889 Clint and Mac Proof Positive Scotland Yard’s Canine Detectives 907 Sugarfoot Brannigan’s Boots Eye Witness The Law Moves West The Cowboy Cobbler 914 No Time For Sergeants The Big Change The Long Ride Down 920 Zorro Ghost of the Mission A Bad Day For Bernardo El Camino Real 933 Zorro Garcia’s Secret The King’s Emissary The Little Zorro Fiesta 951 The Lennon Sisters’ Life Story The Lennon Sisters’ Favorite Games The Lennon Sisters’ Favorite Recipes Let’s Polka With The Lennon Sisters 960 Zorro The Eagle’s Brood The Visitor Yankee Trader’s Floating Stores 976 Zorro The Gypsy Warning A Double For Diego The Four R’s of Learning 992 Sugarfoot The Stallion Trail

10/57 2/58

20 12 1 1 2/58 18 14 32 1 1

3/58 5/58

20 12 1 1 32 1 1

THE FROGMEN 5 Dangerous Competition (with ??) Boy of the Pacific - The Angry Man

27 4

5/63

7/58

GENE AUTRY AND CHAMPION 113 Sundown Incident

1/57

6/58

JACE PEARSON’S TALES OF THE TEXAS RANGERS 15 Famous Texans-Stephen Fuller Austin-Father of Texas 4 16 Famous Texans - Charles Goodnight 4

3/57 6/57

THE LAWMAN 4 The Horse Stealers 5 Keeper of the General Store (poss. Toth)

4 1

5/60 8/60

MAVERICK 10 The Suitor 13 Stubborn as a Mule

4 4

5/60 11/60

26 6 1 9/58 14 12 6 1 29 1 1 1

11/58

12/58 26 6 1 3/59 26 6 1 5/59 22

The Law Trap 10 A Handle to Live By 1 1003 Zorro 6/59 The Marauders of Monterey 26 The Enchanted Bell 6 Monterey Famous Firsts 1 1014The Lennon Sisters 7/59 The Mystery of Lonesome Farm 32 1018 Rio Bravo 32 6/59 1024Darby O’Gill and the Little People 32 8/59 1041Sea Hunt 10/59 Valley of the Amazon 18 Test Dive 14 Did You Know That? 1 1066 77 Sunset Strip 1/60 Safari in Troublesville 19 The Big Catch 12 1069 The FBI Story 32 11/59 FBI Agent in the Making 1 The FBI 1 1071 The Real McCoys 1/60 Wild Wheels 19 Gettin’ Grampa’s Goat 12 The Think-Alikes 1 Fair Measure 1 The Apology 1 1085 The Time Machine 32 3/60 1105 Oh! Susanna 6/60 inside front cover 1 The Sea Horse 22 Pirate, Beware 10 Gale Storm 1 1106 77 Sunset Strip 6/60 Kookie’s Close Call 16 Lights, Camera, Danger 16 Grapevine Clues 1 1134 The Real McCoys 9/60 inside front cover 1 Run For the Money 18 Rembrandt McCoy 13 The Woodchopper’s Fall 1 Grampa’s Fortune 1 Three Ways Out 1 1159 77 Sunset Strip 1/61 inside front cover 1 The Money Wagon 16 The Night Visitor 16 Clues To the Missing 1 Kookie’s Quandary 1 1180 The Danny Thomas Show 3/61 inside front cover 1 Weekend Millionaire 14 Showdown in Tinseltown 10 Pioneer Picnic 8 A Wet Walk 1 The Ballgame 1 1209Sugarfoot 10/61 Challenged Title 1 (NO Toth, per trusted source: interesting that many of these subtractions from the list are books that I do NOT own. Hmmmm… )

MAVERICK (Whitman book) nn Warner Bros. Maverick 282 (55/8” x 73/4”, text story with chapter headings and 22 full-page two-color illustrations in black/green and black/orange.) MYSTERY COMICS DIGEST 3 The Secret of the Key (rep. TZ #4) 10 The Queen is Dead… Long Live the Queen (rep. TZ #3) 11 5 Possessed (rep. BKTOM #5) 11 12 The Captive (rep. TWILIGHT ZONE #3) 4 QUEEN OF THE WEST, DALE EVANS 17 Quicksand Crisis COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

1959

5/72 7/72 7/73 10/57

Jan. 2001

# STORY TITLE (WITH INKING CREDITS) REX ALLEN 24 Friend Or Foe THE RIFLEMAN 3 The Wild’un Comes Home 6 Reprieve for Ol’ Joe RIN TIN TIN AND RUSTY 34 Kangaroo Bluff 36 Charley Sing-Song ROY ROGERS 111 Chuckwagon Charlie’s Tales 119 Tornado The Temptation of Sam McGrew 120 Hidden Gold Masquerade 121 Victory Fists 122 The Clue of the Cryptic Key 123 Sign of the Burning Rock A Thousand Cows—But No Milk (poss. Toth) 124 The Rebel Rider 125 Not Just a Miner ROY ROGERS AND TRIGGER (GOLD KEY) cover (from interior panel???) The Rebel Rider (rep. RR #124) Victory Fists (rep. RR #121)

PAGES

DATE

3/57

4 4

4/60 1/61

4 4 4 11 9 10 10 12 10 12 1 12 1

5/60 11/60 3/57 11/57 12/57 1/58 2/58 3/58 4/58 5/58

1 12 12

TARZAN JUNGLE ANNUAL 6 Dear Readers (Not Toth, per AT) TONTO COLORING BOOK nn Whitman 7” x 65/8” (39 full-page b&w drawings) 39 (Credit reads ‘by Toth and Bob Bartram.’)

DRAGON LADY PRESS BRAVO FOR ADVENTURE 1 cover intro & three stories (rep. ROOK #3 & 4 and VOYAGES #1)

1 69

1/87

BUZZ SAWYER 2 cover

4/87

DRAGON LADY PRESS 6 cover

7/87

JOHNNY HAZARD QUARTERLY 1 cover 2 cover 3 cover 4 cover cover of #5 in b&w

1 1 2 1 1

8/86 11/86 5/87 8/87

TERRY AND THE PIRATES 8 cover 11 cover (never published, but a small version appeared in b&w in another DLP title.)

1987

THRILLING ADVENTURE STRIPS 9 cover

EASTERN/FAMOUS FUNNIES FAMOUS FUNNIES 141 178 179

per fsm per fsm per fsm

5/87

FUTURE WORLD 2 It’s a Secret (one text illustration)

5/63 8/63

HEROIC COMICS (Note: Toth did not do any covers for HEROIC; All covers that are signed ‘AT’ are by an artist named Al Thompson. They are not Alex Toth - per Toth) 29 Robot Wrecker (possibly early Toth) 4 3/45 Sunday Stroll (possibly early Toth) 4 30 A Belgian Daniel 3 5/45 Our Merchant Seaman 2 (two text illustrations that may be very early Toth?) 32 Yankee King (one text illustration) 1 9/45 One of our Heroes is Missing 3 33 Pruitt Gets a Pass 4 11/45 He Brought Them Home 3 Ridin’ High 1 35 The Switchboard Heroine 5 3/46 The Heroic Traffic Cop 4 36 When They Were Young - Abraham Lincoln 4 5/46 37 That Another Might Live 3 7/46 When They Were Young - Stonewall Jackson 4 38 no Toth 39 Forever Vigilant 2 11/46 40 no Toth that I can find 41 Ferryboat Rescue 2 3/47 42 Snatched From a Quarry Grave 3 5/47 Caught on One Leg 4 43 Rescue by Air 4 7/47 44 Mercy Flight 5 9/47 Nurse Without Fear 2 45 Acts of Valor 2 11/47 Vail Medal Award (poss. Toth) 2 Paralyzed by Fear (poss. Toth) 2 46 Heroine Saves 11 2 1/48 Safety First 2 47 Nothing To It 2 3/48 48-60 (I repeat - no Toth)

11 10 4 4

4/68

WAGON TRAIN 5 The Calculating Killer

4/60

WALT DISNEY COMICS DIGEST 39 Gypsy Warning (rep. FC #976) 49 S. F. Austin-Father of Texas (rep. JPTOTTR #15) 52 The Ghost of the Mission (rep. FC #920)

26 4 26

2/73 10/74 4/75

WALT DISNEY SHOWCASE 34 Paul Revere (rep. FOUR COLOR #822)

5/76

WESTERN ROUNDUP 18 Hidden Treasure 19 Third Time Out Not Toth (per AT) 20 Tension in Tumbleweed Not Toth (per AT) 22 The Frontiersmen - George Rogers Clark

4/57

4/58

WYATT EARP 10 The Hidden Menace 13 A Night’s Wages

4 4

3/60 12/60

ZORRO (it must be noted that not every copy of a Dell title will be identical. Some issues have art on the back cover while others might have an advertisement. My notes say that Zorro #9 has the following story, yet trusted advisors claim it ain’t so. Any confirmation of either or both would be helpful… ) 9 The Bandidos 4 3/60 12 The Runaway Witness 21 12/60 Friend Indeed 5 Smuggler’s Haven 1 Clash With Diego 1 Senor Gomez Hunts a Fox 1 10/65 5/66 11/66 3/67 9/67

1 FALL/46

JUKE BOX COMICS 1 cover 1 Music Was Never Like This (signed Sandy Toth) 4

3/48

PERSONAL LOVE 11 I Struck It Rich (signed Hawk)

9/51

SUGAR BOWL 1 cover Randy (diving splash) Success Story (two text illustrations) Clubroom Color (two text illustrations) 3 Randy (football splash)

1 10 2 2 11

5/48

9/48

12/67

EC FRONTLINE COMBAT 8 Thunderjet 12 F-86 Sabre Jet

8 7

9/52 11/52

3/68

TWO-FISTED TALES 22 Dying City (with Harvey Kurtzman)

7/51

ZORRO (TOP) 1 (rep. Gold Key ZORRO #7) Jan. 2001

(rep. Gold Key ZORRO #8)

1957

TWILIGHT ZONE 3 The Queen is Dead… Long Live the Queen 4 The Secret of the Key The Captive 25 The Captive (rep. TWILIGHT ZONE #4)

ZORRO (GOLD KEY) 1 Presenting Senor Zorro (rep. FC #882) 18 Zorro’s Secret Passage (rep. FC #882) 14 2 The Eagle’s Brood (rep. FC #960) 26 The Visitor (rep. FOUR COLOR #960) 6 Yankee Trader’s Floating Stores (rep. FC #960) 1 4 The Bandidos (rep. ZORRO #9) 4 5 The Marauder’s of Monterey (rep. FC #1003) 25 The Enchanted Bell (rep. FC #1003) 6 Monterey’s Famous Firsts (rep. FC #1003) 1 7 The Runaway Witness (rep. ZORRO #12) 21 Friend Indeed (rep. ZORRO #12) 5 Smuggler’s Haven (rep. ZORRO #12) 1 Clash With Diego (rep. ZORRO #12) 1 8 Garcia’s Secret (rep. FOUR COLOR #933) 14 The King’s Emissary (rep. FOUR COLOR #933) 12 Fiesta (rep. FOUR COLOR #933) 1 9 Ghost of the Mission (rep. FC#920) 26

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

ECLIPSE MERCHANTS OF DEATH 3 cover 1 4 cover 1 SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT (all rep. from original art) 1 Alice In Terrorland (coloring by Toth) (rep. LW #5) 5 2 Murder Mansion (coloring by Toth) (rep. AID #5)8 3 The Crushed Gardenia (rep. WHO IS NEXT? #5) 8 (+ lettering) 4 cover (from interior panel) (with Tom Yeates) 1 Images of Sand (rep. OOTS #12) 6 5 cover (from interior panel) (with Tom Yeates) 1 The Phantom Ship (rep. OOTS #6) 8 Grip on Life (rep. THE UNSEEN #12) 4 6 The Hands of Don Jose (rep. AID #9) 8

10/88 11/88 11/85 11/85 12/85 2/86 3/86 4/86

SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT 3-D 2 The Man Who Was Always on Time (rep. OOTS #11) 5 (newly processed into 3-D)

4/86

TRUE LOVE 1 Stars In My Eyes (rep. NEW ROMANCES #17) 10 Heart Divided (rep. THRILLING ROMANCES #22) 3 2 Blinded By Love (rep. POPULAR ROMANCE #22)10

1/86 1/86

THE CLASSIC ALEX TOTH ZORRO (note: all stories have been shot from the original art with new tones applied from Toth guides.) V1 Cover 1 1988 introduction (by Howard Chaykin) 3 (two small Toth drawings) Presenting Senor Zorro (rep. FC #882) 18 Zorro’s Secret Passage (rep. FC #882) 14 Ghost of the Mission (part 1) (rep. FC #920) 13 Ghost of the Mission (part 2) (rep. FC #920) 13 Garcia’s Secret (rep. FOUR COLOR #933) 14 The King’s Emissary (rep. FOUR COLOR #933) 12 A Bad Day For Bernardo (rep. FC #920) 6 The Little Zorro (rep. FOUR COLOR #933) 5 The Visitor (rep. FOUR COLOR #960) 6 A Double For Diego (rep. FOUR COLOR #976) 6 V2 Cover 1 1988 Foreword by Toth (three small sketches of Zorro)2 The Eagle’s Brood (rep. FOUR COLOR #960) 26 The Gypsy Warning (rep. FOUR COLOR #976) 26 The Enchanted Bell (rep. FOUR COLOR #1003) 6 The Marauders of Monterey (rep. FC #1003) 26 The Runaway Witness (rep. ZORRO #12) 21 Friend Indeed (rep. ZORRO #12) 5 Two above volumes also released together in a signed, limited deluxe hardcover edition with one additional colorplate in 1988 FANTAGRAPHICS ANYTHING GOES 1 Heroes

10/86

GEMSTONE FRONTLINE COMBAT (EC reprints) 8 Thunderjet (rep. FRONTLINE COMBAT #8) 12 F-86 Sabre Jet (rep. FRONTLINE COMBAT #12)

8 7

5/97 5/98

TWO-FISTED TALES (EC reprints) 5 Dying City (rep. TWO-FISTED TALES #22)

10/93

IMAGE COMICS THE CLASSIC ALEX TOTH ZORRO V1 Reprint of Eclipse ZORRO Collection Vol. 1 V2 Reprint of Eclipse ZORRO Collection Vol. 2

120 120

7/98 8/98

KITCHEN SINK THE SPIRIT 28 (illustrated letter)

4/81

LEV GLEASON BOY LOVES GIRL 43 I Played With Fire (with Mike Peppe) 47 Postponed Honeymoon (with Mike Peppe?)

7 7

2/54 6/54

1 9

2/54

8 9

4/54

BUSTER CRABBE 2 cover Dark of the Moon (with Mike Peppe) (John Celardo touch-ups on Crabbe’s face.) Killer on the Loose (with Mike Peppe) 3 Invisible Monsters of Calisto (with Peppe) CRIME AND PUNISHMENT 66 cover War on the Streets The Burner The Armored Car Murders (entire issue in Deep Dimension 3-D = curved panels and double tone.) 68 cover

1 12 7 8

3/54

7/54 49

# STORY TITLE (WITH INKING CREDITS) MAGAZINE VILLAGE TRUE CRIME 9 The Terror MARVEL/ATLAS/EPIC AKIRA 38 pin-up

PAGES

DATE

12/49

THE ESSENTIAL UNCANNY X-MEN V1 Origin of Professor X (reprints X-MEN #12) 20 (over Jack Kirby layouts, with Vince Colletta inks)

1999

BEST ROMANCE 5 My Stolen Kisses (with Mike Peppe)

2/52

CRIME FILES 5 Five State Police Alarm

9/52

11/52

7 7 10 10 1 1

8/53 2/53 5/53 2/54

6 6

11/52 3/53

CREEPY 5 Grave Undertaking 6 6 The Stalkers 6 7 Rude Awakening 6 9 Out of Time 6 23 Rude Awakening (rep. CREEPY #7) 6 75 Phantom of Pleasure Island 8 76 Ensnared 7 77 Tibor Miko (+ script) 6 78 Unreal (+ script) 6 79 Kui (+ script) 6 80 Proof Positive (+script) 7 91 Phantom of Pleasure Island (rep. CREEPY #75) 8 114 Reaper 10 122 The Killing (signed ATOZ, inks over Leo Duranona)12 123 Kiss of the Plague (inks over Leo Sommers) 6 124 Malphisto’s Illusion (inks over A. Romero) 8 125 Circus of the Bizarre (inks over C. Infantino) 5 139 Special Alex Toth issue Daddy and the Pie (rep. EERIE #64) 8 The Monument (rep. EERIE #3) 6 Grave Undertaking (rep. CREEPY #5) 6 Rude Awakening (rep. CREEPY #7) 6 Survival (rep. BLAZING COMBAT #3) 6 Phantom of Pleasure Island (rep. CREEPY #75) 8 Unreal (+ script) (rep. CREEPY #78) 6 146 Grave Undertaking (rep. CREEPY #5) 6

5/55

1989

MY LOVE STORY 7 More Than a Wife

4/57

JET FIGHTERS 5 The Egg-Beater 7 Seeley’s Saucer (with Mike Peppe)

MY OWN ROMANCE 55 ‘Til We Meet Again

1/57

RAWHIDE KID 46 The Warning (+ script) (with Vince Colletta)

6/65

SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN 63 inside front cover 64 inside front cover & ‘Conan Portfolio’ 84 Conan Discovers the Fortress City of Bontu

1 8 2

4/81 5/81 1/83

TV STARS (Hanna-Barbera) 3 cover Pilgreen’s Progress

1 5

X-MEN 12 Origin of Professor X 20 (over Jack Kirby layouts, with Vince Colletta inks) 67 Origin of Professor X (reprints X-MEN #12) 20

12/78

5 1 7

10/52 12/52

7/65

MY REAL LOVE 5 Shattered Dream (with John Celardo per notes on original art)

6/52

1 1 8 1 1 12

6/83 8/83

BLUE RIBBON COMICS V2:8 Black Hood & The Fox (pin-up)

10/83

5/84

RED CIRCLE SORCERY 8 The Man Who Tried to Kill Death 9 If I Were King

5 6

8/74 10/74

RENEGADE PRESS FRISKY FROLICS 1 cover

11/86

MURDER 1 Face Up To It 2 It Figures 3 cover

1 1 1

8/86 9/86 10/86

ST. JOHN NIGHTMARE 10 Fisherman of Space (rep. WEIRD THRILLERS #2)7

12/53

TOR 3 Danny Dreams

5/54

STANDARD ADVENTURES INTO DARKNESS 5 Murder Mansion (with Mike Peppe) 8 The Phantom Hounds of Castle Eyne (w/Peppe) 1 8 The House That Jackdaw Built (w/Mike Peppe) 7 The Twisted Hands 5 9 The Hands of Don Jose (with Mike Peppe) 8 BATTLEFRONT 5 Terror of the Tank Men

JOE YANK 5 Black Market Mary (with Sy Barry) 8 3/52 (Art Saaf touch-ups on faces for main character continuity) 6 Bacon and Bullets 7 5/52 8 cover 1 10/52 10 cover 1 2/53 15 Fire Fighter (two text illustrations) 2 4/54 LOST WORLDS 5 Alice In Terrorland (with Mike Peppe) 6 cover Outlaws of Space

RED CIRCLE/ARCHIE ADVENTURE THE BLACK HOOD 1 cover 2 cover (& logo design) The Fox (+ script) back cover 3 cover The Most xxxxx Man in the World (+ script)

8/52 2/53 4/53 6/52

1978

BLAZING COMBAT BOOK The Edge (rep. BLAZING COMBAT #4)

9/91 10/91 11/91

9/52

MARVEL MASTERWORKS V7 Origin of Professor X (reprints X-MEN #12)

1 1 1

10/65 1/66 4/66 7/66

8 7 1 5

LOVERS 67 I Do

ZORRO 10 cover 11 cover 12 cover

1 6 6 6

FANTASTIC WORLDS 5 Triumph Over Terror (with Mike Peppe) The Invaders 6 cover The Boy Who Saved the World INTIMATE LOVE 19 I Married In Haste (with Mike Peppe) 21 Undecided Heart (with Mike Peppe) 22 I Want Him Back 26 Lonesome For Kisses (with Mike Peppe) If You’re New In Town Those Drug-Store Romeos

2/57

WARREN BLAZING COMBAT 1 Combat Quiz 2 Lone Hawk 3 Survival (script by Toth & Goodwin) 4 The Edge

5/53

3/55 5/55 11/55

1/53

5 6 6

WESTERN GUNFIGHTERS 24 His Back To the Wall

EXCITING WAR 8 Geronimo Joe (with Mike Peppe)

LOVE ROMANCES 48 Just My Type 49 Something Borrowed, Something Blue (with Peppe) 53 Working Girl’s Romance (with Peppe)

4/70?

WHO IS NEXT? 5 The Crushed Gardenia

NEW ROMANCES 10 Be Mine Alone 7 11 My Empty Promise 10 14 Smart Talk 1 16 Man Of My Heart 10 17 Stars In My Eyes (with Mike Peppe) 1 Uncertain Heart (w/ Peppe, Sekowsky & Esposito) 6 18 My Dream is You (with Mike Peppe) 10 19 Smart Talk 1 20 Love’s Calendar _ Smart Talk 1

3/52 5/52 12/52 6/53 8/53 10/53 12/53 3/54

OUT OF THE SHADOWS 5 The Shoremouth Horror (with Mike Peppe) 8 6 The Phantom Ship (with Mike Peppe) 8 10 The Corpse That Lived 3 11 The Mask of Garffenwehr (with Mike Peppe) 2 12 The Man Who Was Always on Time (w/ Peppe) 5 Images Of Sand (with Mike Peppe) 6

7/52 10/52 10/53 1/54 3/54

POPULAR ROMANCE 22 Blinded By Love (with Mike Peppe) 23 Free My Heart (with Mike Peppe) 24 I Fooled My Heart 25 I Need You (with Mike Peppe?) 26 Guilty Heart (with Mike Peppe) 27 Heartbreak Moon (with Mike Peppe) Long On Love

10 10 7 10 8 10 1

1/53 4/53 7/53 9/53 11/53 2/54

THIS IS WAR 5 Show Them How To Die 6 Routine Patrol Too Many Cooks 9 No Retreat (with John Celardo per notes on original art)

6 5 5 7

7/52 10/52 5/53

THRILLING ROMANCES 19 Help Yourself To Love (two text illustrations) 22 Heart Divided (with Mike Peppe per credit on original art) 23 Chance For Happiness (with Mike Peppe?) 24 Ring On Her Finger (with Mike Peppe?) Frankly Speaking (with Mike Peppe?)

2 3

5/52 8/53

10 10 2

10/53 1/54

TODAY’S ROMANCE 6 Appointment With Love

5/52

THE UNSEEN 5 Blood Money of Galloping Chad Burgess (w/Peppe) 6 Peg Powler 12 Grip On Life (with Mike Peppe) 13 The Hole Of Hell (with Mike Peppe)

8 1 4 2

6/52 9/52 11/53 2/54

10/65 12/65 2/66 6/66 10/68 11/75 1/76 2/76 3/76 5/76 6/76 8/77 1/80 10/80 11/80 1/81 2/81 7/82

1985

CREEPY PAPERBACK (Tempo) Grave Undertaking (rep. CREEPY #5)

1971

CREEPY YEARBOOK ‘71 Grave Undertaking (rep. CREEPY #5)

1971

EERIE 2 Vision of Evil 3 The Monument 14 The Stalkers (rep. CREEPY #6) 16 The Monument (rep. EERIE #3) 51 Vision of Evil (rep. EERIE #2) 64 Daddy and the Pie 65 The Hacker is Back 67 The Hacker’s Last Stand

6 6 6 6 6 8 9 10

3/66 5/66 4/68 7/68 9/73 3/75 4/75 8/75

EERIE YEARBOOK ‘72 The Monument (rep. EERIE #3)

1972

THE ROOK 3 Bravo-1 1935: The world in war… (+ script) 24 4 Bravo-2 Having been exposed to Dan… (+ script) 25

6/80 8/80

UFO & ALIEN COMIX 1 Daddy and the Pie (rep. EERIE #64)

1977

VAMPIRELLA 90 Eyes of Anubis (signed ATOZ, inks over L. Duranona) 12 108 Torpedo-1936 Her name was Thelma… episode 8 (b&w rep. of European strip) 110 Torpedo-1936 I’m Luca, the Torpedo.. episode 8 (b&w rep. of European strip)

9/80 9/82 12/82

ZIFF-DAVIS ROMANTIC MARRIAGE 5 Doctor’s Wife

WEIRD THRILLERS 2 The Fisherman of Space

7 WIN/51

CAR MAGAZINES BIG DADDY ROTH 1 Surfside Saga 2 Baron Von Roth, Knight of the Air Dirty Doug in Temper, Temper Barber Shop Gig Water Born Word to the Wise 3 Go Go at the Alamo CARtoons 24 Tall on the Wheels Carzan 26 Guess Who A’Gogo (+ script) 27 Tirezan of the Apehangers v30:5Guess Who A’Gogo (rep. CARtoons #26) COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

7/51

6 6 2 1 1 2 5

10/64 12/64

3 3 2 3 2

8/65

3/65

12/65 2/66

Jan. 2001

# STORY TITLE (WITH INKING CREDITS) v30:6Tall on the Wheels (rep. CARtoons #24)

PAGES

DRAG CARtoons 2 The Tell Tell Car 4 Dr. Kildear 4 3 Has This Ever Happened To You? 2 All Show 1 5 All’s Quiet 1 Love Life 1 6 A/Gas 1 Lotsamatteryou? 1 Out Love is Here to Stay 2 7 Laughing On the Outside 2 Doctor Strangecar 5 A/Gas 1 Two Of a Kind 1 A/Gas 1 8 Air Fair 1 Signs Of the Times (p. 1 on p. 23, p. 2 on p.12) 2 Crash Scene 2 Graham’s Ghost-Go-Round 5 Chicken Shift 1 9 Getaway 2 The Dragula Story 5 The Will to Win 2 Crossover 1 10 Santa’s Wild Ride 5 AA Fool (with Dennis Effelson) 1 A Gas (with Dennis Effelson?) 1 11 Getaway Gertie 5 12 Harry the Rat Fink With Cars 5 13 Success Story 5 14 Dragula 5 15 Motor Story 5 21 Surfside Saga (rep. BIG DADDY ROTH #1) 6 22 Baron Von Roth, Knight of the Air (rep. BDR #2)6 25 GoGo At the Alamo (rep. BDR #3) 5 28 Dr. Kildear (rep. DRAG CARtoons #2) 4 48 Dr. Strangecar (rep. DRAG CARtoons #7) 5 Chicken Shift (rep. DRAG CARtoons #8) 1 49 Motor Story (rep. DRAG Cartoons #15) 15 Has This Ever Happened to You (rep. DRAG Cartoons #3) 2 The Tell Tell Car (rep. DRAG Cartoons #2) 4 BEST OF DRAG CARtoons 1 The Dragula Story (rep. DRAG CARtoons #9) 5 Harry the Rat Fink With Cars (rep. DRAG CARtoons #12) 5 HOT ROD CARTOONS 5 No Bigger Banger 6 Stirling Day at Targa Florio What Else? 7 The Fine Art of Fuelmanship (with Lemmons) Copping Out Granny McGo’s Revenge 8 Never Say Whoa to Granny McGo 9 Doom Buggy Granny McGo’s Good Deed Gig 10 Craziest Quilt 11 Hairiest Hag on the Track 12 Granny McGo vs the Dodge Lady 13 Water on the Brain 14 Cars and Their Behavior 15 As the Twerp is Bent 16 The Clown-Around Caper 47 Granny McGo Closes

11/64

MISCELLANEOUS BOOKS, MAGAZINES & FANZINES [I’ve included some occurrences of Toth art for sale, but I decided not to continue the practice. The intent of this index was to document where and when Toth practiced his art, not where the art eventually ended up. I’ll continue to list reprints as an inexpensive means of acquiring old material, but, please, no more auction & art catalogs.] ALEX TOTH Book on Alex, heavily illustrated, 144 1995 published by Kitchen Sink, edited by Mañuel Auad, intro by Milt Caniff, color cover, b&w interior. Includes stylistic autobiography. ALEX TOTH: BLACK & WHITE Book on Alex, heavily illustrated, 220 1999 Auad Publishing, edited by Mañuel Auad, intro by Jim Warren, two-color cover, b&w interior. Huge compilation of obscure and unpublished Toth work.First appearance of Bookworm (unused Charlton story); reprints The Vanguard (HOT STUF’ #4), The Fox (BH #2), Taps (BOP #1), Baron Von Roth, Knight of the Air (BDR #2), Oolala (DRAGON’S TEETH #1), UFO and the Perts vs Experts (COSMIC BOOK #1), Bravo for Adventure (VOYAGES #1), Tibor Miko (CREEPY #77), Unreal (CREEPY #78), The Crushed Gardenia (WHO IS NEXT? #5), The Burner (C&P #66), 39/74 (WITZEND #10). An indispensible collection.—JBC

12/64

ALEX TOTH: BY DESIGN Massive collection of Toth’s animation work, 360 1996 including over 300 model sheets. Published by Gold Medal and edited by Darrell McNeil, w/ many notes and comments by Toth.

DATE

3 2 3 3 1 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2

12/63 3/64 7/64 8/64 9/64

10/64

1/65 2/65 3/65 4/65 5/65 3/66 6/66 4/68

1968

7/65 9/65

ANVIL ANTHOLOGY 1 Toth (interview)

1995

ARK MAGAZINE 33 Interview with Toth (per info from Brian Postman)

1990

5/75

THE ART OF ALEX TOTH nn 59 1977 (Published by Al Dellinges, this book contains some Warren stories; ‘Unreal’, ‘Daddy and the Pie’, and ‘Kui’. But the bulk of the book is devoted to sketch pages and samples of rare strips, i.e. 3 pages of a ‘Vanguard’ strip, 7 pages of the legendary ‘Jon Fury’, an 8-page unpublished strip called ‘Rolling Stone,’ and a cover to a magazine called ‘Commander’s Digest.’ There is also some text by Toth, Gil Kane and others. Plus a new cover… ) AT EASE 1 Cover 1 1963 Tabloid mag for the armed services, with a color Toth cover and four (unspecified) interior strips. Zekley Publications. BASICALLY STRANGE 1 The Man Who Tried to Kill Death (rep. RCS #8)

12/82

1/66 3/66

BOP 1 Taps (+ script)

1982

5/66 7/66 9/66 11/66 1/67 3/67 5/67 7/72

BURIED TREASURE (Pure Imagination) 1 (biography) 1 SP/86 (hand-lettered bio with two small drawings) (rep. LCE #C-41) Rogue Gallery 1 (rep. panels various Standard strips featuring likeness of Errol Flynn.) Geronimo Joe (rep. EXCITING WAR #8) 8 The Crushed Gardenia (rep. WHO IS NEXT #5) 8 2 Shattered Dream (w/ J. Celardo, not Peppe as credited)3 1986 (rep. MY REAL LOVE #5) Those Drug-Store Romeos (rep. IL #26) 1 (tone added by Greg Theakston) Lonesome For Kisses (rep. INTIMATE LOVE #26)10 (all above except Rogue Gallery from original art.) 3 Special Toth Issue cover 1 1988 illustrated, hand-written intro by Toth 2 Man of My Heart (rep. NEW ROMANCES #16) 10 Those Drug Store Romeos (rep. IL #26) 1 Joe Yank cover 8 The Eggbeater (rep. JET FIGHTERS #5) 6 Undecided Heart (rep. INTIMATE LOVE #21) 7 No Retreat (rep. THIS IS WAR #9) 7 Hidden Treasure (rep. WESTERN ROUNDUP #18) 8 Heartbreak Moon (rep. POPULAR ROMANCE #27) 10 Alice in Terrorland (rep. LOST WORLDS #5) 5

1959

CLUTCH CARGO Crambia Production (the last season)

1960

THE GREEN SLIME (Starring Robert Horton)

1969

HICKEY AND BOGGS (Warner or Columbia)

1972

JONNY QUEST (last six shows)

BURIED TREASURE (Caliber) 1 Uncertain Heart (rep. NEW ROMANCES #17) 6

ROBIN HOOD (Disney animated film)

1973

SPACE ANGEL Crambia Production - three seasons

1964

SUPER FRIENDS Hanna-Barbera

1973

Jan. 2001

3/75

11/65

FILM STORYBOARDS (This data is courtesy Paul S. Power. I have no personal knowledge of Toth’s contributions to these projects beyond what Paul says. Additions welcome. See ALEX TOTH: BY DESIGN below) THE ANGRY RED PLANET - PROJECT X A William Castle Film/Columbia Pictures

AMAZING WORLD OF DC COMICS 5 A Few (?) Paragraphs About Sheldon Mayer 2 (text with photo of Toth) 6 back cover (unpublished WITCHING HOUR cover) 1

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

CARTOONEWS 5 Alex Toth Tells How He Works 4 (one page text + four pages of ‘A Job Well Done,’ rep. THRILLING ADVENTURE STORIES #2) 17 Rolling Stone (first printing) 8

1975 1977

CARTOONISTS PROFILE 42 (photo of Toth w/Model Sheet) 54 (5 pgs on techniques & felt-tip pens - handwritten) + 2 pages from BRAVO FOR ADVENTURE)

16/79 1982

CHARLTON BULLSEYE 5 cover The Question

1 8

7/76+

CHARLTON SPOTLIGHT 1 Handwritten Pat Boyette remembrance

1 FAL/00

COMIC ART CONVENTION PROGRAM BOOK nn The Work of Alex Toth (text by Gil Kane, photo of Toth, & about 10 small illos, all reprint, by Toth.) nn The Fox

1972

1977

COMIC ART SHOWCASE 4 page from Rude Awakening (rep. from CREEPY #7)1

1975

THE COMIC BOOK ART OF DICK BRIEFER nn Frankenstein drawing

1979

COMIC BOOK ARTIST (TwoMorrows) 1 handwritten letter illustrates “Editor’s Rant” _ SPR/98 reprints 1 pg. from “20 Miles to Heartbreak” plus unused THE WITCHING HOUR #1 cover 4 Alex Toth-’Before I Forget’ 6 SPR/99 (handwritten column on Warren work with reprints of numerous Warren comics pages) 5 Alex Toth-’Before I Forget’ 3 SUM/99 (handwritten column on Frank Robbins, Batman and The Shadow.) Reprints page from AC #418 7 handwritten Pat Boyette eulogy _ 2/00 Alex Toth-’Before I Forget’ 2 (handwritten column “About Lou Fine”) 8 Alex Toth-’Before I Forget’ 2 5/00 (handwritten column on the state of the industry) Alex Toth on George Roussos (third-page eulogy) 9 reprints Question splash, CHARLTON BULLSEYE #5 8/00 10 Alex Toth-’Before I Forget’ 2 10/00 (handwritten column on the art of panel layouts) 11 Alex Toth-’Before I Forget’ Special Issue 58+ 1/01 (you’re readin’ it, partner!)—JBC COMIC BOOK ARTIST SPECIAL EDITION (TwoMorrows) 1 Alex Toth-’Before I Forget’ 6 12/99 (Handwritten column on his 1970s DC work)—JBC THE COMIC READER 105 cover - The Fox

4/74

COMICS FEATURE 10 Thundarr (back cover)

7/81

THE COMICS (formerly THE HISTORY OF THE COMICS) v5:4 Neatness Counts, & Style Ain’t Too Bad - essay 6 4/94 v4:9 (actually v5:4) letter - On Close Ups 1 9/94 v5:10 letter from Robert Kanigher on Toth _ 10/94 v5:12letter on Robert Kanigher 12/94 v6:3 letter re Lev Gleason 3/95 v6:4 Tribute to Frank Robbins (with one doodle) 6 4/95 v6:11 letter re Dixie Dugan and newspaper strips 11/95 v7:5 1 paragraph letter re Bachelor and O’Mealia 5/96 v7:7 1 paragraph letter re Batman Black & White cover 7/96 v8:4 letter excerpt and an Al Dellinges recreation 4/97 of a Toth airplane drawing. v8:6 letter to Manuel Auad on Joe Shuster 6/97 v8:12 letter on declining state of the comics industry 12/97 v9:1 letter of comment 1/98 v9:7 letter of comment 7/98 v9:8 letter on The Shadow movie 8/98 v9:9 letter on not lettering Classic Cord story; on Al Dorne 9/98 v11:7 letter on Jerry DeFuccio 6/00 COMICS INTERVIEW 78 Space Ghost model sheet

1989

THE COMICS JOURNAL 58 “A Correction from Alex Toth,” LOC on Heavy Metal 9/80 85 (about Robert Kanigher, text only) _ 10/83 92 Under the Gun: Death by Self-Mutilation 1 8/84 (heading and title for article) 98 Still the Artist’s Artist: An Interview with Alex Toth 19 5/85 (reprint of 1970 GRAPHIC STORY MAGAZINE interview with different illustrations.) 142 letter _ 6/91 189 letter response to Gil Kane interview _ 8/96 223 letter on death of George Roussos 5/00 CONTEMPORARY PICTORIAL LITERATURE 11 cover

1974

DOC WEIRD’S THRILL BOOK (Pure Imagination) 1 The Man Who Was Always on Time (with Peppe) 5 (rep. Out Of The Shadows #12 in b&w with tones added by Greg Theakston)

c1986

# STORY TITLE (WITH INKING CREDITS) DRAGON’S TEETH 1 Oolala (+ script)

PAGES

DATE

12 SUM/83

EC PORTFOLIO 2 Thunderjet (rep. FRONTLINE COMBAT #8) 8 1972 (reprinted from original art, in b&w, in a large format.) EIGHTY-SIX (Dylan Williams) 3 Alex Toth on Jesse Marsh (rep. PANELS #2) 7 6 Alex Toth on Ed Moore & Heroic Comics (letter) 1

1999 2000

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ANIMATED SATURDAY SUPERHEROES by Rick Darrow 1993 Model sheets to Johnny Quest, FF, Birdman & The Galaxy Trio, etc. model sheets. FANFARE 5 Baron von Roth, Knight of the Air (rep. BDR #2) 3 SUM/83 FANTASTIC FILMS COLLECTORS EDITION 20 Thundarr the Barbarian (prod. illustrations for cartoon) 2

12/80

FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA 10 Cover (homage to C.C. Beck)

1 FALL/89

THE FILM JOURNAL 6 The Thing From Another World (15 thumbnail interpretations of 1951 film)

1974

FRED KIDA’S… VALKYRIE Logo & 1 page intro (reprint volume pub. by Ken Pierce)1

1982

FRONTLINE COMBAT (Russ Cochran EC reprint volumes) V2 Thunderjet (rep. FRONTLINE COMBAT #8) 8 1982 1982 V3 F-86 Sabre Jet (rep. FRONTLINE COMBAT #12) 7 (reprinted from original art, in b&w, in a large format.) FUNNIES (Italian magazine) 17 Intervista ad Alex Toth 3 5/89 Illustrated interview by Luca Biagini, with doodles and Toth cover to unpublished BUZZ SAWYER #4 from DLP) FUNNYWORLD 23 KCMP Productions ad

1 SPR/83

GLAMOUR INTERNATIONAL 24 Entire issue devoted to Alex Toth 96 10/97 (color cover, introduction by Toth, article on his influences and another on those whom he has influenced. Many, many samples of art, plus index based on this one—sans permission I might add) GRAPHIC GALLERY 4 one page from Darby O’Gill 7 two unpublished Shadow paintings ‘Unreal’ (rep. CREEPY #78)

1 2

5/76

GRAPHIC STORY MAGAZINE 9 back cover - The Fox 1 SUM/68 10 Interview With Alex Toth 17 SPR/69 (Toth interviewed by Vince Davis, Richard Kyle and Bill Spicer - well-illustrated with some of his best work, photos, and art by some of his influences) HANNA-BARBERA’S WORLD OF SUPER ADVENTURE v1 by Michael Swanigan 1991 (multiple drawings/model sheets for Birdman, Fantastic Four, etc.) HOT STUF’ 4 The Vanguard (+ script)

10 SPR/77

ILLUSTRATED ORIGINAL ART CATALOG ‘featuring the work of Alex Toth’ nn a special issue of Cartoonews 5 1980 (1/6, 1/4 and a 1-page repros of several comic pages-16 in all. All poorly reproduced and used mainly as samples of some of the art Alex was offering for sale. Interesting for completists only.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR (TwoMorrows) 8 portions of a five-page interview from the 1972 Comic Art Convention luncheon discussion among Toth, Jack Kirby and Jim Steranko)

1/96

LOST IN TIME nn hand-lettered intro (graphic novel published by NBM) 1

1986

LOVE, THE ULTIMATE MANIFESTATION OF THE LEGENDARY PLEASING INSANITY 1 underground comic - Curt Metz publisher.

1975

MASTERS OF IMAGINATION The Comic Book Artists Hall of Fame 7 Section on Toth in color, plus a two-page index of his comic book work—trust me, not them.

1994

MYRON MOOSE FUNNIES 2 no title (The Fox! The Moose!)

1973

NEAR MINT 1 Super-Friends storyboard 4 Super-Friends model sheet 1 6 Space Angel Basketball drawing (supposedly from ’40s. I doubt it.) 1 52

1980 11/80

21 Index to ALL-AMERICAN WESTERN #103-117 4 5/82 (very incomplete and not too accurate, but does have four one-quarter page and one full-page reproductions of AAW Toth covers.) 25 A Tribute to Noel Sickles 2 1/83 (hand-lettered remembrance of Sickles, one page drawing, and a reprint of a COMICS BUYER'S GUIDE article by Toth on Sickles) 35 Frankenstein (back cover) 1 NEMO 4 A Forgotten Western Classic: Lance (text intro) 1

12/83

NEW YORK COMIC ART CONVENTION PROGRAM 1973 1972 Comic Art Convention Luncheon 7 1973 (panel discussion w/ Jack Kirby, moderated by Jim Steranko) THE PANELHOUSE 3 Bravo for Toth Cover and four-page article in Artist’s Eye section of magazine. All art in b&w.

PANELS 2 Jesse Marsh (text) (heading and lettering for a remembrance of Marsh by Toth)

7 SPR/81

THE PHILIPPINES COMICS REVIEW 1 Opinions (text)

10/79

PRETTY GIRL SKETCHBOOK Black Canary (pinup)

12/95

sheets, plus page on Toth by Rude. We’re pushing the envelope of index credits with this one, folks. STREET ENTERPRISES BENEFIT PORTFOLIO nn (large 11 x 17 limited edition of 2000 copies) Racing Storyboards Sketchbook Page The Fox STREETWISE (TwoMorrows Publishing) nn Illustrated letter (reprints SPIRIT #28)

1 1 _

1975

6/00

SURF-TOONS (Peterson) nn cover (with Hughes—possibly painter/colorist?) 1

11/66

TEEN v10:7 Thrilling Adventures of Superteen (B&w spy spoof) 2 7/66 v10:8 per fsm TOON MAGAZINE (Black Bear) Incomplete Index 3 Space Ghost and Dino Boy 21 1994 (14-page article with Toth model sheets on every page, plus 7 pgs. of Dino Boy Storyboard) 4 Scooby-Do Turns Twenty-Five 1994 (11 different model sheets—all signed) (Many other sheets by another artist) 5 Hanna-Barbera’s The Fantastic Four 9 FAL/94 (22+ model sheets, reproduced in various sizes) 6 Super Friends 6 WIN/94 (11 model sheets, plus one promo drawing - various sizes) Challenge of the Super Friends 6 (6 model sheets - various sizes)

1981

PRIME CUTS 2 UFO & the Perts vs ExPerts (rep. COSMIC BOOK #1) 3

3/87

RALSTON STRAIGHT SHOOTERS TOM MIX GIVEAWAY nn cover 1 Tom Mix & Taking of Grizzly Grebb (approx. 5”x3”) 13

TWO-FISTED TALES (Russ Cochran EC reprint volume) V1 Dying City (rep. TWO-FISTED TALES #22) 7 1980 (reprinted from original art, in b&w, in a large format.)

1982

VOYAGES 1 Bravo for Adventure (+ script)

ROBIN SNYDER’S HISTORY OF THE COMICS v1:4 Scrap v1:5 Toth/FF Toth biography v1:9 The German Sheps v1:10 Himself n Moi v1:11 Alex Toth—a Bibliography (covers 1987-90) sketches V2:7 cover (page of character studies) (page of character studies) About Jack Cole (hand-lettered remembrance) Alex Toth-A Bibliography (overs ’48 & part of ’49) (page of character studies) v2:9 Funnybooks v3:4 Posits, Posies and Pufferies Homage to Mort Meskin: Maestro (essay originally done for Panels, submitted by AT to HofC in lettered form and so run.) v3:5 Shelly Mayer (hand-lettered remembrance) v4:11 cover doodles Bravo for Toth part 4 (1949-50)

4/90 5/90

9/5/90 9/10/90 1 10/90 1 1 7/91

1 1 3

9/91 4/92

5/90 11/93

SAN DIEGO COMIC-CON PROGRAM BOOK (self portrait Toth) 1 Seagulls at Sunrise A Debt of Thanks… Best Wishes to Shel.. 1 The Fox, Bravo and Toth 1 Bravo for Adventure The Fox Hi San Diego Comic Con These surprised, solemn, sweet and lovely ladies… 1 (African man against slatted window) 1 Ducks?! Y’Wanna Celebrate Ducks?! Happy 75, Jack (Manta-like plane w/searchlight) 1

1976 1978 1980 1983 1984 1986 1988 1991 1992 1993

SSAM (Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine) 12 2 13 2 15 1 ? They’ll Tell You Where to Get Off (Note: Title is now SAM) 2

9/79 10/79 12/79 7/82

STANDARD COMICS (Pure Imagination) 1 cover (two panels from inside) 1 The Phantom Ship (w/ J. Celardo) 8 (rep. Out of the Shadows #6 in b&w Incorrectly lists origin as AID #8) Show Them How to Die (rep. This Is War #5 in b&w) 6 My Dream Is You (with Peppe) (rep. NR #18 in b&w) 10 I Want Him Back (rep. Intimate Love #22 in b&w.) 10 (all stories reprinted from original art.)

6/83 1975

WITZEND 10 Thirty-Nine/Seventy-Four (+ script) 10 1976 (Story copyright Marvel Comics-did it appear elsewhere?) WONDERWORLD V3:2 Jon Fury in Japan - 1955

11/73

MISCELLANEOUS CASEY RUGGLES (newspaper strip) Aquila episode (48 strips w/ W. Tufts) 5/15/50 to 7/8/5 0

1 1 1 1 7

WARREN CALENDAR nn oriental warrior (large 11”x15” w/fine printing) 1

1972 1974

ROY ROGERS (newspaper strip) Toth supposed to have ghosted this during 1960s SPARKLER 100 Casey Ruggles - Aquila 10 7/51 101 Casey Ruggles - Aquila ? 9/51 (The above comics reprint in color the Toth episodes with minor panel deletions.) note: the Price Guide lists SPARKLER #108 and 113 as having Toth art. Unless these are text illustrations or art other than Casey Ruggles, this is doubtful. (The only Casey Ruggles that Toth worked on was Aquila—per Toth) CASEY RUGGLES (Western Wind Prod.) nn 1/16/50 to 8/19/50 1979 (Reprints daily strips of dates listed above. Titles on cover are: Black Barney, The Hard Times of Pancho and Pecos, Spanish Mine, and Aquila.) CATHOLIC PICTORIAL (Edward O’Toole) 1 Johnny Donald Father Pat Hannegan Missionary

6 5

3/47

ROCKETS AND RANGE RIDERS (Richfield giveaway) nn cover Rockets and Range Riders

1 12

1957

—FIN—

c1985

STEVE RUDE SKETCHBOOK NO TOTH, but a seven-page section showing Rude’s work on Space Ghost for Comico as it was derived from Toth’s model COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

Jan. 2001

Appreciation

Alex Toth, 1973: Super Mentor Paul Powers, Aussie storyboard artist, on learning from the legend by Paul Power North Sydney, N.S.W., Australia. The Eric Porters Studio had finalized work on Hanna Barbera’s Charlie Chan and the Chan Clan, finishing up Australia’s first animated feature, Marco Polo and the Red Dragon (written by Shelly Mayer, Alex Toth’s mentor at DC in the ’40s). The next H-B gig for us to subcontract (from H-B Australia, just a few miles away in St. Leonards) was—ta-da!—Super Friends. Alex was in the city to design and produce the animated show. I was a junior layout artist and a bunch of us—Monty Wedd, Hal English, Robert Smit, Anthony Chan, and myself—invited Alex to a local pub for a beer. I was 17 years old. Alex was 48. Needless to say, I was ready to meet Alex with a bag of comic books for him to sign. We were all comic strip artists working in animation, and I was the one most familiar with Toth’s work. I asked Alex if he had worked on the movie, How To Murder Your Wife (starring Jack Lemmon), and the cartoon TV shows, Space Angel and Clutch Cargo. “Clutch Cargo?” Alex was puzzled and wondered aloud how could I have guessed he worked on it. “I just know your style,” said I. From then a friendship was struck and Alex took me under his wing, teaching storytelling first! “Keep it simple… stick to the story… draw like crazy… render simply… on everything!—design, films, comics, and movie storyboards.” It was a great six months spent with him and thereafter I was a sponge, soaking up what I could from the master. I used his lessons in my Sunday comic strip, Professor Om, on my in-progress comic book, East Meets West (a science-fiction Western), and during my 1977 ghosting assignment on John Dixon’s Sunday strip, Air Hawk. Toth influenced my decision to work in American film as a storyboard artist, eventually working on such films as Predator, Top Gun, Say Anything, The Edge, and Con Air, right up to my current work on Ben Stiller’s Zoo Lander, and Arac-Attack (these last two due to be released in the Summer of 2001). To me, some of the fantastic artists who worked in comics are just as much film directors as comic book practitioners—Jack (King) Kirby, Neal Adams, John Dixon… and the very, very best is Alex Toth. Thanks and God bless you, Alex. You’ve made this little Aussie—and all of your fans the world over—very happy. Bravo, mate! Left: Alex’s cover to Limited Collectors’ Edition #C41, featuring “editorial surgery,” replacing Toth’s Superman head with a Curt Swan version. If you’ve passed this oversize beauty up in earlier collecting safaris, be sure to snatch this puppy up next time as it includes an extraordinary illustrated ten-page essay by Alex (with Bob Foster) on how TV cartoons are made, plus a great autobiography page by the master. ©2000 DC Comics.

We’re Looking For A Few Good Mags! Comic Book Artist, in its continuing effort to have access to the most comprehensive reference material pertaining to comics, is looking to fill some glaring gaps in our library. If you have any of the following magazines, some needed for upcoming issues of CBA, and would be willing to part with them for a reasonable sum, can you please contact Ye Ed at (401) 783-1669 or e-mail JonBCooke@aol.com? Many thanks to all who help! WANTED TO PURCHASE: Amazing Heroes #1-7, 9, 10, 12, 14-18, 20-27, 29-33, 35, 36, 38-67, 69, 71, Jan. 2001

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

73, 74, 76-89, 91, 92, 94-97, 101-112, 114-134, 136146, 148-final issue? Amazing World of DC Comics #5, 9-11, 13-final issue Comic Book Marketplace #1-3, 5, 7, 8, 16-18, 43 Comics Interview # 2-11, 13-15, 18, 19, 23, 24, 26-28, 31-34, 36-38, 40-55, 57-146, 148-150 The Comics Journal #27-31, 34-36, 85, 94, 150, 174 Foom # 1-2, 4, 6-8, 19, 21-final issue HVCN—Hudson Valley Comic Newsletter #1-9, 11-final Marvelmania #1-4, 6-final issue

Nemo # 3-6, 8-11 NEED ACCESS TO: As CBA hopes to delve into the more esoteric aspects of comics history, we’re looking for willing souls to help share comic book/strip bibliographical info on the following magazines. Here’s some titles: National Lampoon entire run with emphasis on 1970-75. Heavy Metal entire run. High Times entire run. Esquire emphasis on ’60s/’70s. Cavalier entire run. Playboy entire run. Plus any other mags which contain comic book material from the ’60s-80s. Suggestions welcome! 53

Totally Toth

Toth’s Forgotten Maverick Work Rediscovering the artist’s superb two-tone TV adaptation illos

The 1990s produced a wealth of tomes on the subject of Alex Toth and his work—significantly editor/publisher Mañuel Auad’s Eisner award-winning Alex Toth (Kitchen Sink, 1995), his follow-up Alex Toth: Black & White (Auad Publishing, 1998), and Darrell McNeil’s Alex Toth: By Design (Gold Medal Productions, 1996)—and, in these volumes, informed comics fans discovered an exhaustive array of previouslyunseen Toth work. Combined, these books contain 724 pages of Alex’s art, most of it unpublished or rarely-found, and lemme tell you, there seemed little left remaining of the “good stuff” to be included in this special issue of Comic Book Artist… or so I thought. With the help of frequent CBA contributor and buddy Jim Amash, we put out a call on the internet for Toth art contributions and this editor has rarely seen such a number of devoted Toth fans jump to offer help. Jim mentioned a rarity I had never heard of: The 1959 Whitman kids book (resembling a really big Big Little Book) adapting the James

Garner TV show, Maverick, filled with over 20 exquisite two-toned illustrations by the master. So after we ask if anyone might own such a gem in our electronic query, nary a night passes before Terry Beatty, renowned cartoonist and co-creator of Ms. Tree, shoots me an e-mail offering to send copies. Terry put quite an effort in getting reproducible images from the difficult-to-copy illos and I can’t properly express how grateful I am to Mr. Beatty for sharing these delightful pictures. On this spread we include 12 fullpage illos, plus a trio of spot drawings. Other faithful Toth devotees who shared rare and unpublished artwork deserve my gratitude and allow me to thank the many who answered the call: Paul S. Power, Mañuel Auad, Jim Amash, Mark Chiarello, John Hitchcock, Steve Cohen, Tom Field, Phillip Hester, Lance Falk, Andrew Steven, Don Mangus, Joel Thingvall, Roy Thomas, Terry Austin, Mike W. Barr, David A. Roach, and Joe & Frank Giella. If I’ve forgotten to mention anyone, please forgive (and correct) me. Thanks to everyone who helped!—JBC

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

Jan. 2001

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

GIANT WINTER FUN! IT’S THE SUGAR & SPIKE EXTRAVAGANZA!

No. 11 Jan. 2001

$6.95 In The U.S. U.S. In The

Sheldon “Scribbly” Mayer

Merrily “Sugar” Mayer Harris

Lanney “Spike” Mayer

CELEBRATING SHELDON MAYER, MASTER CARTOONIST!

A plea from the publisher of this fine digital periodical: TwoMorrows, we’re on the Honor System with our Digital Editions. We don’t add Digital Rights Management features to them to stop piracy; they’re clunky and cumbersome, and make readers jump through hoops to view content they’ve paid for. And studies show such features don’t do much to stop piracy anyway. So we don’t include DRM in our downloads.

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TwoMorrows.Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics. (& LEGO! ) TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

EXTRAVAGANZA!

NUMBER 11

CELEBRATING THE LIVES & WORK OF THE GREAT CARTOONISTS, WRITERS & EDITORS

JANUARY 2001

DEPARTMENTS: GUEST EDITORIAL: MUSINGS ON SHELDON MAYER Visiting helmsman Bill Alger on the development of this Sugar & Spike issue ................................2-B CBA COMMUNIQUES: MORE CHARLTON CLARIFICATIONS Letters to Ye Ed clarifying Charlton copyright ownerships and discussing CBA #10 ........................3-B CBA COMMENTARY: ALEX TOTH—‘BEFORE I FORGET’ Our “flipside subject” discusses the importance of Sheldon Mayer, Toth editor and mentor ..........6-B SPECIAL SHELDON MAYER AND SUGAR & SPIKE SECTION: CARTOONIST CHRONOLOGY: SHELDON MAYER TIMELINE The year-by-year highlights of the great artist/writer/editor’s career ............................................10-B BEFORE SUGAR & SPIKE: SCRIBBLY JIBBLET, BOY CARTOONIST Rocco Nigro examines Mayer’s other masterpiece, his semi-autobiographical Scribbly ..................12-B MERRILY MAYER HARRIS INTERVIEW: SUGAR’S DADDY Bill Alger talks to the daughter of Sheldon Mayer on her father’s life and art ..............................14-B LANNEY MAYER INTERVIEW: SHELLY & SPIKE Candid and revealing talk by Bill Alger with Shelly Mayer’s son on his dad’s complex nature ......34-B COVER GALLERY: 99 ISSUES OF SUGAR & SPIKE Repros of the 15-year run of Sugar & Spike courtesy of Beverly Martin and Jon Ingersoll ............46-B A LIFE WITH SUGAR & SPIKE: …AND EVERYTHING NICE Longtime S&S fan Beverly Martin gives a personal take on our loveable duo of tiny tots ............50-B ALEX TOTH—’BEFORE I FORGET’ SPECIAL SECTION Celebrating America’s greatest living comic book artist with interviews, checklists & more! ..FLIP US! COMIC BOOK ARTIST™ is published bi-monthly by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. Jon B. Cooke, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892-0204 USA • 401-783-1669 • Fax: 401-783-1287. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT the editorial office. Single issues: $6.95 ($8.00 Canada, $10.00 elsewhere). Yearly subscriptions: $30 US, $42 Canada, $54 elsewhere. First Printing. All characters are © their respective owners. All material is © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © their respective authors. ©2000 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. PRINTED IN CANADA. Cover acknowledgement: Scribbly, Sugar & Spike ©2000 DC Comics.

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Guest Editorial

Musings on Sheldon Mayer Guest editor & cartoonist Bill Alger on the story behind this ish

Above: Sheldon Mayer’s original April 25, 1976 artwork commissioned by Charlie Roberts shown with unaltered dialogue. CBA is eternally grateful to Charlie for sharing this previously-unseen treasure—thanks, C.R.! Read Charlie’s “Story Behind Our Cover” at right. Characters ©2000 DC Comics. Artwork ©2000 Sheldon Mayer Estate. Below: Sheldon’s December 1959 holiday greeting card featuring his two rascals. Sugar & Spike ©2000 DC Comics. Courtesy of Merrily Mayer Harris. Artwork ©20000 Sheldon Mayer Estate.

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This (somewhat massive) Sheldon Mayer section of this magazine began rather simply. I was speaking with CBA editor Jon B. Cooke about contributing to a proposed “kids’ stuff” issue and I off-handedly mentioned that I had been in contact with Mayer’s grown kids, Lanney and Merrily—reportedly the real-life inspiration for their father’s legendary comic series Sugar & Spike—and could see if they had any interest in being interviewed for the issue. Jon said, “Sure, that’d be great.” I got a call from Ye Ed shortly after that informing me that unfortunately the “kid’s stuff” issue had been indefinitely postponed, but did I think that I could gather enough material together for a flip-book just on Mayer’s Sugar & Spike? Of course, I could! It would be easy! Well, actually, I had no idea if I could fill up half an issue on Mayer, but why not promise now and scramble to make it happen later? I’d long felt that Mayer’s career had been unjustly overlooked and this was an opportunity to widen awareness of his achievements in the comics field and increase his fan base. Plus, it would be yet another chance to beg DC to consider reprinting some of Mayer’s long-unavailable work (a Scribbly/Red Tornado Archive Edition perhaps?). Both Lanney and Merrily graciously agreed to be involved in the issue and I began to interview Mayer’s co-workers in the comics industry. It soon turned out that the Mayer sibling interviews were going so well (and I had gathered together enough of Shelly’s art) that there might not be room for much else. Jon suggested that we narrow the scope of the issue to focus mainly on Sugar & Spike, while including enough information on other aspects of Mayer’s career to provide a pretty good overview of his non-S&S work. Hopefully there will be enough interest in Mayer in the future for someone (CBA?) to publish further interviews with Mayer’s friends

and associates to round out our knowledge of the man and his work. In the meantime, I hope that we have produced a heartfelt tribute to a man who, as an editor, was an instrumental force in the genesis of the comics industry and, as a cartoonist, produced some of the most beloved, endearing kids’ comics of all time. —Bill Alger

The Story Behind Our Cover If you were surprised to see the wonderful “new” cover by Shelly Mayer adorning this issue of CBA, you may have been doubly intrigued when you saw it inscribed to our magazine by the cartoonist, who passed away in 1992, six years before we debuted! Well, we confess a bit of Photoshop magic was committed on the piece (originally drawn and colored 24 years ago by the artist) and we beg your forgiveness for our indulgence. Contributed by Charlie Roberts, we feature the original at left, and we asked Charlie if he could tell us the tale behind this delightful artwork. Here are his comments: DC Comics decided to put on a special comic convention in February 1976. The almost-30 years of litigation against them by the creators of Superman, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, had been settled a few months earlier. Jerry and Joe were in attendance at the con, as were Bob Kane, Curt Swan, Sol Harrison, and quite a few others involved with the company at the time. Sheldon Mayer couldn't have been nicer, to the point of doing a black-&-white sketch for my daughters. I inquired about a specialty piece. He said a color original would be $50 a character, so I requested Scribbly drawing Sugar and Spike, thus the cover you see here cost $150. He asked that the check be made out to a new charity, The Bill Everett Fund (the noted Marvel artist had fallen on hard times). The National Cartoonist Society had their Milt Gross Fund to help needy cartoonists, but most comic book artists didn't belong to the NCS nor did they have insurance as most were freelancers. Coming on the heels of the Siegel & Shuster settlement, Sheldon Mayer was at the forefront (along with Neal Adams and Jerry Robinson) in what was then a pioneering effort to not only see that those in the comic book industry received better pay but that they also got insurance and the return of their original art. Those involved in the business would finally see light at the end of the tunnel, and long overdue respect for their efforts. Shelly, the boy cartoonist, devoted his entire life to making comics better for readers and, in the end, for his fellow adult cartoonists. —Charlie Roberts

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CBA Communiques

On Toth & More about Charlton A call for a DC Best of Alex Toth volume and copyright concerns John M. Warren Grand Rapids, Michigan How splendid to see that Alex Toth’s column was restored for this issue [#10]—easily the best feature anywhere in the comics press, and an endless source of instruction, inspiration, and illumination. I was 14 when I first experienced the sublime and exhilarating beauty, the insight and refinement of a Toth page, and though it has been tough tracking down crucial back issues of his work, at least we can look forward now to CBA #11. Many of the recent reprint collections have sold out quickly, so perhaps there really is enough demand out there for a Best of Toth trade paperback from DC. If Simonson, Perez, Kubert, and Adams deserve such treatment (in some cases they got hardcovers), then isn’t Alex a worthy subject, too? Finding that his best stuff is unavailable except in the form of yellowed newsprint from 40 years ago, is like going to a CD store and having the option to buy Bach only on second-hand vinyl. Anyone care to join me in a letter-writing campaign to assure DC that a Toth book would be profitable? [You have my support with that, John! Snippets of Alex Toth’s DC work are occasionally being reprinted—his Black Canary two-parter from Adventure Comics #418-19 can be found in the just-released Black Canary Archive volume, but a complete book on the master’s greatest DC work is very much in order. I, too, look forward to his ‘Before I Forget’ column continuing, so cross ye fingers!—JBC] Matt Haley Via the internet Just grabbed the latest issue of CBA, and I wish every single person involved in this club we call the 'Comics Industry' would read Toth's rant on how to fix the industry… he said pretty much everything I think, but didn't have the guts to say! Great issue. Kurt Mitchell Tacoma, Washington My personal economic reality has resulted in a sustained hiatus from comics-related purchases. I accept that. But there was no way I was going to let my subscription to Comic Book Artist lapse. I renewed just in time to receive your tenth issue. Lucky for me! CBA #10 was another outstanding exploration of the whos, hows and whys of our favorite comic books. I’ve been interested in comics theory and history for 30 years and I’m invariably blown away by the informative and fascinating articles and interviews you make available. I expected the Walter Simonson and John Workman interviews to hold my attention (can’t wait for that Heavy Metal issue, by the way) but the contributions of guest editor Trina Robbins both entertained me and expanded my understanding and appreciation of an aspect of the industry I’d never given much thought to before. Trina has always been one of my favorite underground stylists, serving as a breath of fresh air amidst all the self-indulgent misogyny of Crumb or S. Clay Wilson. That her talents have been so underutilized by the mainstream is one of comics’ great shames. Her love for the medium has maintained itself despite the best efforts of the fanboy contingent to alienate and marginalize female audiences and female creators alike. I wish her and Anne Timmons the best of luck with GoGirl. The slumber party interview with Marie Severin and Ramona Fradon is priceless. I wish I could hear those tapes rather than just read the transcription! Even as a child, it never struck me as odd that these two women were drawing the comics I loved. Ms. Fradon’s ambivalence toward her legacy concerns me a bit. She should be Jan. 2001

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

proud of her contributions. Her work— especially Metamorpho—was open and airy and laced with humor, all elements sorely lacking in today’s leatherclad paeans to cynicism and despair. As for “Mirthful Marie,” her run of Kull the Conqueror remains not only a highlight of the immediate post-Stan era at Marvel but was, for me, the definitive sword-and-sorcery comics experience. Why it hasn’t been collected in TPB format is beyond me. I suppose some purists will object to Trina’s inclusion of newspaper strips Brenda Starr, Teena and Miss Fury. After all, the magazine is called Comic Book Artist, right? Well, rowrbazzle to them, sez I. It’s impossible to discuss the medium without accounting for the influence of newspaper strips. If Caniff, Foster, Raymond, and Crane are in bounds, then surely Tarpe Mills, Hilda Terry and Dale Messick are too. I wouldn’t mind at all if Trina returned for another round (perhaps next time including a talk with Lynn For Better or Worse Johnston?). My only “complaint” this issue is with the articles by Anne Thalheimer and Olga Abella. The former read like a term paper, dry and academic with a hint of politicization (though it did happily bring Alison Bechdel to my awareness). Abella’s contribution was full of misleading generalizations, the most glaring of which was: “If Batman as The Dark Knight were to worry about the vulnerability of teenagers and nuns, would male readers scoff at his unmanliness? Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that he is never depicted [emphasis mine] in situations where he would have to reveal this potential side to him.” Longtime Batman readers know that the Masked Manhunter has often been so portrayed. It is only under the current regime of Bateditors that such humanizing incidents have become unfashionable, compassion apparently being unkewl. Ms. Abella’s commentary was otherwise well-reasoned. There was no need to erect a caped-andcowled straw man to bolster her argument. Every issue of CBA seems to feature an artist or writer whose work I’ve been previously unaware of. This time around it was Mary Fleener. I’ll be keeping an eye out for that name from now on. Thank you, incidentally, for answering my request for a look behind the scenes at Charlton. I enjoyed issue #9 immensely (it nearly replaced your Warren issue as my favorite) and hope you will contin-

Above: Okay, we admit that we’re “stuck in the 1960s and ’70s,” so look forward to our upcoming issue devoted to “The Other Guys” featuring in-depth examinations of Tower Comics (THUNDER Agents), Red Circle (Archie comics’ shortlived mystery line helmed by the great Gray Morrow), and the brief Atlas/Seaboard Comics Group. Got art or interviews? Please send ’em in! Above is an unused Alex Toth Scorpion cover for Atlas/Seaboard. ©2000 the respective copyright holder.

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anything having to do with Charlton.) [Well, I’m excited about our next issue. Perhaps I’m prejudiced because I recall Nick Cuti being so nice to me as a lad when I visited the Charlton booth at the early ’70s Seuling Cons, but I do feel that Nick, Joe Staton, Steve Ditko, Tom Sutton, John Byrne, Mike Zeck, and many others did fine work for the maligned publisher in the ’70s. So I hope you’ll at least give us a peek…—JBC]

Above: Here’s a sneak peek at Joe Staton’s spiffy new cover the artist drew for the next issue of CBA, covering the ’70s Charlton years, subtitled “From Horror to Heroes.” Please note that we’ll also be featuring the first new E-Man strip in quite a while, written by Nick Cuti and drawn by Joe, the character’s creators! Hope you at least give us a look, Robert Loy! All characters ©2000 the respective copyright holders. WHO IS BILL ALGER? We wanted to squeeze in a bio of our pal (and this section’s guest editor) because, well, we love him. A recent contributor to the TwoMorrows’ comics anthology, Streetwise, Bill was born in Chicago, but spent most of his childhood in Alabama. After a flourishing career in commercial illustration (most notably working on a certain talking purple dinosaur), his break into comics came with DC’s Big Book of Freaks, and he continues to contribute to the series, most notably in Big Book of the ’70s. In addition to work for DC Comics’ Cartoon Network line, Bill fills in his schedule doing Web animation. Currently he is illustrating HannaBarbera characters in Scholastic and Golden Books. He currently resides in Brooklyn, New York. 4-B

ue to explore the world of Silver Age comics beyond the familiar territory of DC and Marvel. Please tell me you have space slated for Dell and Gold Key coverage! These days, $30 spent on non-necessities is a big damn deal. As long as you maintain the standards you’ve established in your first ten issues (11 counting the Special Edition), Comic Book Artist will continue to find its way onto my list of necessities. [As a matter of fact, I am very interested in spotlighting Gold Key in CBA. I’ve been recently bitten by the “Western” bug and have snatched up many Gold Keys in anticipation of looking at the work of Russ Manning, Jesse Santos, Frank Thorne, Dan Spiegle (wow! have you seen Dan’s work in Boys’ Life lately?!), Albert Gioletti, Jesse Marsh, and, of course, Wally Wood’s Total War, plus the many other talents who contributed to the under-rated comics publisher. Got ideas, art and/or interview contacts? Gimme a holler! —JBC] Robert Loy Via the internet I just got my subscription copy of Comic Book Artist #10 and I am upset—not with anything in the issue, I liked the “Women in Comics” thing and am looking forward to reading the Simonson interview. But the news that we’re going to get another Charlton issue in CBA #12 just irks me. I know you cover every aspect of comics history and I want you to continue doing so. And of course that means you’re not going to please everybody every time. But my God, one issue about those crummy Charlton comics was more than enough. Even in my most rabid comic collecting days when I bought just about everything on the rack, I refused to sully my hands with anything from Charlton. If nobody at the company (with the exception of Dick Giordano) cared about their comics, why should I? So although I’ve enjoyed my subscription (except for #9—and #12 which I won’t even waste my time reading) I will not be renewing. I’ll just try to find the issues that interest me and buy them from the comic shop. Anyway, I feel better getting that off my chest. I really do like CBA and I can’t wait to see the Sugar & Spike thing in #11. (Which some other reader probably will consider a waste of paper, like I do

Lynn Woolley Temple, Texas The latest issue of Comic Book Artist [#9] was nicely done, as usual. I was saddened to hear of the death of Dick Sprang, a man I consider the best artist ever in the field, and the man who designed and delineated the definitive Batman. No one like him seems to be on the horizon, though one wonders what a story would look like if illustrated in the Sprang style by Peter Poplaski. When I received this issue, I went straight to the Alan Moore interview because I think Moore has elevated the comic book form more than any other writer. His Watchmen is still the most intricate comic book series ever written, reading more like a classic novel than a comic book. Certainly, young kids wouldn’t have understood the rich tapestry that Moore and collaborator Dave Gibbons inserted into the work. And boy, was the politics in that series interesting! I have learned, however, to try to set aside politics as much as possible when pursing today’s pop culture. Otherwise, I would have to find new ways to entertain myself. It seems that most of today’s comic book creators are lefties. I grew up with a conservative Superman, but now he and Lois are portrayed as raving liberals. (Remember the story in which Superman would have let the Joker kill Lois rather than kill the Joker? Get real!) There is a character who appears from time to time in Superman (Agent Liberty?) who is a novelty because he is a conservative. How times have changed. So when I read the comments about Steve Ditko, I pulled out my copy of Mysterious Suspense #1 to look for those right wing wacko comments that Mr. Ditko may have inserted. I found a couple. On page 6, a character says: "That stupid Sage. A rumor spread about him speaking out against the U.N. Instead of denying it, he asks if decent people should deal with cutthroats and if not, why should free governments deal with dictatorships that enslave their own citizens. And should we recognize the right of a dictator to make slaves of people." Ditko at his right-wing worst. So Vic Sage didn’t deny anything as Bill Clinton so often does. He admitted that his opinion is that the United Nations should not deal with dictatorships. Let’s see if that rings any bells in today’s society where a liberal president sent a little boy back to an island prison so he could be reprogrammed by an aging and anachronistic dictator. How prophetic were the words of Mr. Ditko’s script. On page 11, character says: "Our standards are high. I won’t tolerate impurities in drugs that people will introduce into their systems. Vic won’t allow distortions in his evaluations which are to be absorbed by his listener’s mind. I protect my drugs with science and research. Vic protects his views with reason and logic! His words, like my drugs, are intended to clear unsound conditions...not to sound nice or taste good." The pharmaceutical company is being threatened with a Jesse Jackson-style boycott unless it stops sponsoring the Vic Sage commentaries. The character goes on: "You can refuse to buy my products or listen to Vic. But if you deliberately reject quality and truth, you must be willing to settle for that which is inferior and lies!" That’s great, powerful dialogue. What does it remind you of in our modern day? Gays and lesbians trying to shut up Dr. Laura Schlessinger, just as the thugs in the story were trying to shut up Vic Sage. In the story, Sage was exposing lies and telling the truth about corruption. In real life, Dr. Laura, who strongly believes that homosexuality is unnatural, speaks out for what she believes to be right. In both cases, in this land of free speech, opposing groups work to shut up disagreeable, and therefore unacceptable ideas. We have a term for that. It’s called "Political Correctness." Alan disagrees with Ditko because Ditko believes there is a right and a wrong. But on the left, there is only moral relativism. Mr. Ditko may believe in "white supremacist dreams of a master race," but I doubt it. I haven’t read everything Ditko’s ever done, but I didn’t get that out of "The Question." Being conservative doesn’t mean you’re a Nazi. COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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The other thing I enjoyed about "The Question" when I reread it was the use of the word "logic" to describe Vic Sage’s commentaries. That’s a word I use in my daily commentaries on the radio, and at my website <www.BeLogical.com>. Sorry, guys—I enjoy your work tremendously and will continue to read CBA and the ABC titles—but liberalism holds no appeal and no logic for me. Terry Beatty Via the internet Regarding the rights to Charlton characters, Roger Broughton doesn't own everything that DC didn't buy— Max Collins and I own Johnny Dynamite. As for Pete Morisi not getting any reprint royalties off our reprintings of Dynamite in our title Ms. Tree (as noted in CBA #9), though we're not contractually obligated to, I'd have been happy to pay some reprint fees to Pete—if we'd had any money to pay him in the first place. After paying Charlton (and later paying a little more to Broughton, who claimed partial ownership of Johnny Dynamite, 'cause he ended up with the Foreign Intrigue stories in his inventory—though our deal with Charlton gives us all rights to the character), shooting stats to drop out what color we could, and not making much (if anything) off those last Renegade issues of Ms. Tree in the first place—I regret there wasn't really anything in the coffers to send to Pete. If we'd had a better response to our revamp of Johnny Dynamite at Dark Horse, we'd have pitched a reprint book of Pete's stuff—and would've paid him the lion's share of whatever came out of that—but since our Dynamite mini-series didn't exactly set the comic book world on fire sales-wise (despite Max and me thinking it's some of our best comics work ever) the reprint volume never happened. Now if Charlton and Mr. Broughton want to share with Pete some of what we paid them for the rights to Johnny Dynamite, that'd be okay by me…. John Lustig Seattle, Washington I thoroughly enjoyed issue #9 of CBA. I doubt any other publication would have bothered to delve into Charlton’s history in such depth. You did an excellent job and I’m looking forward to the sequel you’ll be doing in the future. I was also looking forward to reading the latest issue (#10), but I was stopped cold by your report that Roger Broughton is claiming to own all the former Charlton material—except the Action Hero line purchased by DC; Joe Staton’s E-Man; and Pete Morisi’s Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt. I don’t know why Roger keeps saying this. It’s certainly true that Roger bought the rights to the vast bulk of Charlton’s comic books. A number of people, however, purchased the rights to Charlton comics before Roger struck his final deal with Charlton. In late 1987, I purchased the rights to a Charlton comic book series called First Kiss. Charlton’s agent for the sale was Robin Snyder. Charlton General Manager Ed Konick was also involved and signed the contract giving me full rights to the material. Other people who bought material from Charlton include Bill Black, publisher of AC Comics, as well as two former Seattle comic book store owners— Steve Sibra and Ron Church. I believe that Robin Snyder also owns some rights. No doubt there are other people who also purchased rights from Charlton. Even if he isn’t aware of the others, Roger certainly knows about my purchase of First Kiss. I spoke with him about it several years ago. In addition, for the last five years, I’ve been using the artwork from First Kiss for my cartoon feature “Last Kiss” which appears in Comics Buyer’s Guide. (The feature appeared sporadically for the first two years. Then I took a couple of years off. Since early 2000, however, the comic strip has been appearing every week in CBG.) Using the old artwork, but using new dialogue, I’ve turned the series into a comedy which often pokes fun at comics. In addition, Shanda Fantasy Arts is going to be publishing a 48page Last Kiss comic book in February 2001 (in time for Valentine’s Day) which will feature new stories, some reprints of my CBG strips and an interview with Joe Gill—writer of the original First Kiss comic books. Jan. 2001

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[We hope to clear up specifics of the current ownership of Charlton’s copyrights and trademarks for next issue, when we’ll interview Roger Broughton, John Lustig, and Bill Black, among others, about the Derby, Connecticut publisher’s “afterlife.” But I spoke to Bill (publisher of the fine retro-comics line, AC Comics) to get a statement for this issue. He told me, “In 1987, Charlton closed its doors and they teamed up with Robin Snyder to liquidate the inventory of stats in their warehouse. Robin contacted me and sent me an incredible list of stuff—groups of books for so-many dollars. Snyder was selling off the material in big envelopes containing four-up flats of stats. At the time, I and others purchased material and, after Robin sold as much as he could, then Roger Broughton bought the remainder. I purchased Nyoka, John Severin Billy the Kid stories, and stories from Rocky Lane and Don Winslow. This all transpired over a several month period. Charlton said I had all the rights to the material I bought. They said, “It’s yours; you bought it!” —JBC]

Above: John Lustig sent me this example of his delightful “Last Kiss” cartoon feature, appearing in the Comics Buyers’ Guide as well as an upcoming comic book published by Shanda Fantasy Arts. ©2000 John Lustig.

Below: The writer also sent us photocopies of his 1987 agreement with Charlton Publications regarding his purchase of the First Kiss comics material.

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CBA Commentary

Alex Toth—‘Before I Forget’ The Master on His Mentor and Editor, Sheldon Mayer

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Above: Alex Toth and Shelly Mayer did team-up—albeit as an artist and writer, respectively— on some short stories for DC in the ’70s. Here’s the splash page to their tale in Adventure Comics #431. Courtesy of Jim Amash. Left: Splash to the Toth/Mayer Weird War Tales #10 story. ©2000 DC Comics. 8-B

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THE RETRO COMICS EXPERIENCE!

Edited by MICHAEL EURY, BACK ISSUE magazine celebrates comic books of the 1970s, 1980s, and today through recurring (and rotating) departments like “Pro2Pro” (dialogue between professionals), “BackStage Pass” (behind-the-scenes of comicsbased media), “Greatest Stories Never Told” (spotlighting unrealized comics series or stories), and more!

Go to www.twomorrows.com for other issues, and an ULTIMATE BUNDLE, with all the issues at HALF-PRICE!

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(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “AllInterview Issue”! Part 2 of an exclusive STEVE ENGLEHART interview (continued from ALTER EGO #103)! “Pro2Pro” interviews between SIMONSON & LARSEN, MOENCH & WEIN, and comics letterers KLEIN & CHIANG. Plus JOHN OSTRANDER, MICHAEL USLAN, and longtime DC color artist ADRIENNE ROY! Cover by Englehart collaborator MARSHALL ROGERS!

Bronze Age Mystery Comics! Interviews with BERNIE WRIGHTSON, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, GERRY TALAOC, DC mystery writer LORE SHOBERG, MARK EVANIER and DAN SPIEGLE discuss Scooby-Doo, Charlton chiller anthologies, Black Orchid, Madame Xanadu art and commentary by TONY DeZUNIGA, MIKE KALUTA, VAL MAYERIK, DAVID MICHELINIE, MATT WAGNER, and a rare cover painting by WRIGHTSON!

“Gods!” Takes an in-depth look at WALTER SIMONSON’s Thor, the Thunder God in the Bronze Age, “Pro2Pro” interview with TOM DeFALCO and RON FRENZ, Hercules: Prince of Power, Moondragon, Three Ways to End the New Gods Saga, exclusive interview with fantasy writer MICHAEL MOORCOCK, art and commentary by GERRY CONWAY, JACK KIRBY, BOB LAYTON, and more, with a swingin’ Thor cover by SIMONSON!

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“Liberated Ladies” eyeing female characters that broke barriers in the Bronze Age: Big Barda, Valkyrie, Ms. Marvel, Phoenix, Savage She-Hulk, and the sword-wielding Starfire. Plus a “Pro2Pro” interview with JILL THOMPSON, GAIL SIMONE, and BARBARA KESEL, art and commentary by JOHN BYRNE, GEORGE PEREZ, JACK KIRBY, MIKE VOSBURG, and more, with a new cover by BRUCE TIMM!

“Licensed Comics”! Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Man from Atlantis, DC’s Edgar Rice Burroughs backups (John Carter, Pellucidar, Carson of Venus), Marvel’s Warlord of Mars, and an interview with CAROL SERLING, wife of ROD SERLING. With art and commentary from ANDERSON, BYRNE, CLAREMONT, DORMAN, DUURSEMA, KALUTA, MILLER, OSTRANDER, and more. Cover by BRIAN KOSCHACK.

“Avengers Assemble!” Writer ROGER STERN’S acclaimed 1980s Avengers run, West Coast Avengers, early Avengers toys, and histories of Hawkeye, Mockingbird, and Wonder Man, with art and commentary from JOHN and SAL BUSCEMA, JOHN BYRNE, BRETT BREEDING, TOM DeFALCO, STEVE ENGLEHART, BOB HALL, AL MILGROM, TOM MORGAN, TOM PALMER, JOE SINNOTT, and more. PÉREZ cover!

JENETTE KAHN interviewed by ROBERT GREENBERGER, DC’s Dollar Comics and unrealized kids’ line (featuring an aborted Sugar and Spike revival), the Wonder Woman Foundation, and the early days of the Vertigo imprint. Exploring the talents of ROSS ANDRU, KAREN BERGER, STEVE BISSETTE, JIM ENGEL, GARTH ENNIS, NEIL GAIMAN, SHELLY MAYER, ALAN MOORE, GRANT MORRISON, and more!

“JLA in the Bronze Age”! The “Satellite Years” of the ‘70s and early ‘80s, with BUCKLER, ENGLEHART, PÉREZ, and WEIN, salute to DICK DILLIN, the Justice League “Detroit” team, with CONWAY, PATTON, McDONNELL, plus CONWAY and GEOFF JOHNS go “Pro2Pro” on writing the JLA, unofficial JLA/Avengers crossovers, and Marvel’s JLA, the Squadron Supreme. Cover by McDONNELL and BILL WRAY!

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BACK ISSUE #59

BACK ISSUE #60

BACK ISSUE #61

BACK ISSUE #62

BACK ISSUE #63

“Toon Comics!” History of Space Ghost in comics, Comico’s Jonny Quest and Star Blazers, Marvel’s Hanna-Barbera line and Dennis the Menace, behind the scenes at Marvel Productions, Ltd., and a look at the unpublished Plastic Man comic strip. Art/comments by EVANIER, FOGLIO, HEMPEL and WHEATLEY, MARRS, RUDE, TOTH, WILDEY, and more. All-new painted Space Ghost cover by STEVE RUDE!

“Halloween Heroes and Villains”! JEPH LOEB and TIM SALE’s chiller Batman: The Long Halloween, the Scarecrow (both the DC and Marvel versions), Solomon Grundy, Man-Wolf, Lord Pumpkin, Rutland, Vermont’s Halloween parades, and… the Korvac Saga’s Dead Avengers! With commentary from and/or art by CONWAY, GIL KANE, LOPRESTI, MOENCH, PÉREZ, DAVE WENZEL, and more. Cover by TIM SALE!

“Tabloids and Treasuries,” spotlighting every all-new tabloid from the 1970s. Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man, The Bible, Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles, The Wizard of Oz, even the PAUL DINI/ALEX ROSS World’s Greatest Super-Heroes editions! Commentary and art by ADAMS, GARCIA-LOPEZ, GRELL, KIRBY, KUBERT, MAYER, ROMITA SR., TOTH, and more. Wraparound cover by ALEX ROSS!

“Superman in the Bronze Age”! JULIUS SCHWARTZ, CURT SWAN, Superman Family, World of Krypton miniseries, and ALAN MOORE’s “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?”, art & comments by ADAMS, ANDERSON, CARDY, CHAYKIN, PAUL KUPPERBERG, OKSNER, O’NEIL, PASKO, ROZAKIS, SAVIUK, and more. Cover by GARCÍA-LÓPEZ and SCOTT WILLIAMS! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

“British Invasion” issue! History of Marvel UK, Beatles in comics, DC’s ‘80s British talent pool, V for Vendetta, Excalibur, Marshal Law, Doctor Who, “Pro2Pro” interview with PETER MILLIGAN & BRENDAN McCARTHY, plus BERGER, BOLLAND, DAVIS, GIBBONS, STAN LEE, LLOYD, MOORE, DEZ SKINN, and others. Fold-out triptych cover by RON WILSON and DAVE HUNT of Marvel UK’s rare 1970s “Quadra-Poster”!

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(84-page TABLOID with color) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

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Cartoonist Chronology

A Sheldon Mayer Timeline Overview of the artist/writer/editor’s many accomplishments Compiled by Don Mangus, Bill Alger, Robin Snyder, Steven Rowe, Jon Ingersoll, Bob Herr, and Rocco Nigro [All dates referring to publications are cover dates, traditionally three-four months ahead of actual on-sale date.] Apr. 1, 1917: Sheldon Mayer born in New York City. 1932-35: Mayer works as assistant to various New York newspaper cartoonists. Dec. 1935: Mayer’s first comic book work is published in National Periodical Publication’s New Comics #1. 1936: M.C. Gaines packages Popular Comics for George Delacorte, who publishes it through the McClure Syndicate. Mayer is hired by Gaines to edit and paste-up the book. (Popular Comics #1, Feb. 1936). 1936-39: Mayer works for the McClure Syndicate. 1936-38: Mayer becomes an editor at Dell Comics. 1936: Mayer edits Popular Comics and The Funnies for Dell. Below: From the Mayer biographical text page in Sugar & Spike #85, a self-portrait by Sheldon Mayer. Courtesy of Charlie Roberts. ©2000 DC Comics.

1936: Mayer’s character Scribbly appears in Popular Comics #6 (first appearance?). 1937-38: Mayer ghosts Bobby Thatcher comic strip for George Storm. Strip’s run ends in 1938.

1938: Gaines and Mayer recommend that National/DC Comics publish Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster’s Superman comic strip. Mayer recognizes potential of strip while working at the McClure Syndicate. National/DC editor Vincent Sullivan accepts “Superman” from Gaines, and is published in Action Comics #1 (June 1938). 1939: National enters into an agreement with M.C. Gaines to produce comics line under the “All-American” imprint. Mayer becomes an editor at All-American Group (1939-1948). 1939: Mayer’s work appears in Movie Comics for National. 1939-44: Mayer’s character Scribbly appears in All-American Comics. Jan. 1940: Mayer and Gardner Fox create The Flash and Hawkman for All-American’s Flash Comics. July 1940: Mayer edits Green Lantern’s first appearance in AllAmerican Comics #16. 1940: Mayer brings in brings renowned comics writer Bill Finger to work on the super-hero line. Winter 1940: Mayer and Fox create the Justice Society of America for All Star Comics #3. 1940: Mayer’s female super-hero character, the Red Tornado, makes her first appearance in a “Scribbly” story from All-American Comics #20. 1941: Irwin Hasen takes over the art on “Green Lantern.” He and Mayer introduce GL’s humorous sidekick Doiby Dickles. 1941: M.C. Gaines hires William Moulton Marston to create Wonder Woman. Mayer edits book. 1943: Mayer produces work for All Funny Comics. May 13, 1943: Mayer marries Ruth Armstrong. Dec. 24, 1943: Mayer’s daughter, Merrily, is born. 1944: Julie Schwartz is recruited to become Mayer’s story editor. 1944: Mayer develops new titles Buzzy and Funny Stuff (featuring the first version of “The Three Mouseketeers”). Funny Stuff #5 contains all Mayer story and art. Nov. 19, 1944: Mayer’s son, Lanney, is born. 1945: Mayer edits Leading Comics. Mid-1940s: Mayer hires Lawrence Nadell as an editor. 1945: Mayer hires artist/high-school student Joe Kubert to draw “Hawkman” for Flash Comics. 1945: Mayer hires Robert Kanigher as an editor. 1945: M.C. Gaines sells National his interest in All-American Publications. The two companies are consolidated under the name National Comic Publications. 1946: Mayer hires artist Carmine Infantino (who illustrates “The Ghost Patrol” feature with Frank Giacoia). 1947: Mayer hires Alex Toth, who draws “Dr. Midnite” and “The Atom,” and later, “Green Lantern”). 1947: M.C. Gaines dies in a Lake Placid boating accident (after forming EC Comics the previous year). 1948: Mayer resigns as a National Comics editor returning full

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time to writing and drawing. Below: Courtesy of Merrily Mayer Harris, a studio portrait of then-DC editor Sheldon Mayer, circa late-1940s.

1948: Mayer’s semi-autobiographical character Scribbly is given own title, lasting nearly four years. Mayer writes and draws entire 15issue run. 1948: Mayer’s work appears in Comic Cavalcade and helps develop Leave It to Binky. 1940s-50s(?): Mayer draws covers for Mutt & Jeff comics. Early 1950s: Mayer works on funny animal stories featuring various characters, including Doodles Duck, Dizzy Dog, and Bo Bunny. Jan. 1952: Last issue of Scribbly appears, #15. Apr. 1956: Mayer’s The Three Mouseketeers debuts. Rube Grossman takes over most art duties after #8. May 1956: First issue of Mayer’s Sugar & Spike appears. Dec. 1960: The Three Mouseketeers ceases publication with #26. Early 1960s: Mayer prepares samples for (unpublished) Sugar & Spike newspaper comic strip. 1967: Mayer participates in the creation of a Western character that eventually evolves into Bat Lash. 1967: Bernie The Brain makes first appearance in Sugar & Spike #72. Mid-1960s: Marx Toys produces a slideshow Sugar & Spike filmstrip for Flashy Flickers projector. Frames reprint panels from S&S #41. June 1970: DC begins reprints of Mayer and Grossman’s Three Mousketeers stories. Second series lasts seven issues. Early 1970s: Mayer works on (unpublished) children’s books. 1971: Mayer packages new and old material for an aborted Sugar & Spike digest “pocket treasury.” June 1971: The Three Mousketeers revival ends with #7. Nov. 1971: Mayer stops drawing due to vision problems caused by cataracts, and Sugar & Spike ends 15-year, 98-issue run. 1973: Mayer undergoes a successful eye operation. 1973: Mayer writes for DC’s mystery comics and creates super-heroine The Black Orchid in Adventure Comics #428 (July 1973). 1973: Mayer writes and draws Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer for DC’s Limited Collector’s Edition #C-24. Jan. 1974: Mayer writes “Is a Snerl Human?” (drawn by Alex Toth) for Adventure Comics #431. 1974: Mayer works on “Black Orchid” stories appearing as a backup in The Phantom Stranger. Mar. 1975: Sheldon Mayer tribute issue of The Amazing World of DC Comics (# 5) is published. July 1975: Mayer adapts the Old Testament for The Bible for Limited Collector’s Edition #C-36. Aug. 1976: Harmony Books publishes Secret Origins of the DC Super-Heroes, dedicated to Mayer, the “greatest of the comic’s artist-editors, and a man who cares.” Mayer also provides commentary on the development of DC’s Golden Age super-heroes. Autumn, 1977: Publication of the one-shot Gxl Sptzl Glaah!, a fanzine devoted to Mayer’s work. 1978-83: Mayer produces new “Sugar & Spike” stories for the international market. Early 1980s: Mayer draws more samples for a proposed Sugar & Spike newspaper comic strip. 1980-85: Mayer produces new covers for Best of DC Comics digests featuring “Sugar & Spike,” “Funny Stuff,” and “Rudolph.” Mid-1980s: DC intends to publish line of kids’ comics (including Sugar & Spike and a Mayer project entitled The Super Jrs), but soon abandons plans. Early 1980s: Mayer produces work for McDonald’s restaurants. 1981: Smithsonian Book of Comic-Book Comics is published, reprinting 20 pages of Mayer’s “Scribbly.” Storyline features first Jan. 2001

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appearance of Red Tornado from All-American Comics,1940. 1981-82: Mayer writes stories for Secrets of Haunted House, Unexpected and Ghosts. Aug. 1988: Mayer draws three-page “Red Tornado/Scribbly” story for DC’s Secret Origins, #29. 1990: DC publishes The Greatest Golden Age Stories Ever Told (dedicated to Shelly, “the Wizard of the Golden Age”) featuring four “Scribbly” pages originally published in 1939, redrawn for this volume by Mayer. 1990: DC publishes The Greatest 1950s Stories Ever Told featuring a four-page Sugar & Spike reprint. Dec. 21, 1991: Sheldon Mayer dies after long battle with cancer. May, 1992: Robin Snyder’s History of Comics Vol. 3, #6, the Sheldon Mayer memorial issue is published. Mother’s Day, 1992: Sheldon’s wife Ruth Mayer dies. 1992: Sugar & Spike #99 (featuring stories produced for the European market and tributes written by Mayer’s co-workers at DC) is published. Mar. 1994: Lanney Mayer’s article, “The Secret Life of Sugar & Spike” appears in Overstreet’s Silver & Gold Quarterly, #3. July 2000: Sheldon Mayer is inducted into the Will Eisner Comic Industry Awards Hall Of Fame at the International Comic Con: San Diego. Right: Mayer self-portrait for the cover of The Amazing World of DC Comics #5, Mar. 1975, the Mayer tribute issue. ©2000 DC Comics. 11-B

Before Sugar & Spike

Scribbly Jibbet, Boy Cartoonist A Look at Sheldon Mayer’s Semi-autobiographical Strip

Above: Sheldon Mayer’s seminal teenage character—and one loosely based on the writer/artist’s life—was finally awarded his own title in 1948, lasting 15 issues. Today the title is one of the most sought-after series by Golden Age collectors who know better. Courtesy of Rocco Nigro. ©2000 DC Comics.

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by Rocco Nigro Sheldon Mayer’s place in comic book history cannot be overlooked or underrated, if only for being there to help two guys by the names of Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster re-format their unsold strip into the fairly new format of comic books. That creation was Superman and we know what happened to the entire comics industry from that point. Then there is Mayer’s special relationship with the people he worked with, including the father of comic books, Max Gaines, and Max’s son, Mad magazine’s William Gaines. While editing comic books for All-American/National/DC, Mayer worked with some of the best talent in the industry: Julie Schwartz, Alex Toth, Irwin Hasen, Joe Kubert, Mort Weisinger, Carmine Infantino, Bob Oksner, Paul Reinman, H. G. Peter, William Moulton Marston, Harry Lambert, and many more. Mayer was more than just an editor at DC; to many breaking into the comics industry he was a mentor. Toth, Kubert, Infantino, Johnny Craig, Bob Kanigher, Lee Elias, Gil Kane, Oksner, Schwartz, Sheldon Moldoff, Weisinger, and Jack Schiff—basically the foundation that would shape DC Comics for decades to come—were all hired by Mayer. However, Mayer’s most personal work was not his superlative efforts as one of the great comic book editors but his accomplishments as a comic book writer and artist. Mayer worked on a vast number of characters for DC: Sugar & Spike, The Three Mouseketeers, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, Bo Bunny, J. Rufus Lion, Funny Stuff, Dizzy Dog, Doodles Duck, and Leave It To Binky, just to name a few. And quite possibly, Sheldon Mayer’s most important work as an artist/writer was Scribbly Jibbet, “Famous Midget Cartoonist.” Scribbly was the creation of Sheldon Mayer, a feature that followed the artist/writer to the many different publishers he worked for in the early days of comic books. It was easy for Mayer to get ideas for this strip, since it was based on his own experiences. Many have called Scribbly the earliest autobiographical comic book, but that is only partly true. His life experiences were the base that he started from, but he built upon that with stories and gags coming directly from his imagination. Mayer’s work is more similar to a television or radio situation comedy (such as The Jack Benny Show or Seinfeld) as opposed to the comparatively realistic stories told in most current autobiographical comic books. The fact that Mayer’s stories appeared at all and with different publishers shows the high regard Mayer’s bosses had for him. There is a certain charm to the “Scribbly” stories, with the humor stemming from Mayer’s interest in many areas, including cartooning, newspaper work, movies, slapstick, romance, and family situations. The latter subject may be the most important ingredient in the genesis of “Scribbly” and perhaps Mayer himself. Throughout the run, there is a strong sense of the importance of family. “Scribbly” is the story of a young adolescent boy who dreams of being the best cartoonist in the world. Wanting to impress his family at such an early age, Scribbly ends up working more as a copyboy than cartoonist at a city newspaper, but in fact, he becomes much more: a veritable

jack of all trades. Often set away from Scribbly’s job, the one-page strip introduces us to his family, focusing especially on the misadventures of his younger brother, Dinky Jibbet. Dinky and Scribbly get into plenty of sibling conflicts and Mayer gives these episodes a showcase in the “topper” strips in the early years of “Scribbly” (single-panel gags accompanying the logo on the top tier of each “Scribbly” page). This strip-within-a-strip was titled “‘Why Big Brudders Leave Home’ by Scribbly” and most of the jokes have little brother getting in the way of big brother—similar to many single panel newspaper gags at the time. There was an important aspect to this device that put Mayer in touch with his readers. Very cleverly, Mayer paid $1 for every gag idea he used from a reader’s suggestion, with the lucky contributor’s name appearing in the strip. This personal approach is something Mayer would use to even greater advantage years later in another series he created, Sugar & Spike. In S&S, there are pin-up pages, write-your-own comic pages, letters page, and even the main stories—always dedicated to faithful correspondents—involving the reader in the creative process. As early as “Big Brudders,” Mayer understands the importance of intimately involving the reader. He learns from it and even feeds off it, seeming to get great joy out of receiving fan mail. Surely the response meant people were enjoying his work and they were interested enough to offer ideas, criticism, and support. When Scribbly receives his own comic book, Dinky appears in his own stories where the younger brother has adventures with his little gang of friends, often involving being chased by his girlfriend. Another important addition to the “Scribbly” cast is the Hunkel family, in particular the matriarch, Ma Hunkel. In 1940, Ma takes on the secret identity of the Red Tornado (All-American Comics #20). Before the first appearance of Wonder Woman (a character Mayer edited), Mayer created the first female super-hero for DC in the Red Tornado, albeit a satirical character. The Hunkels (introduced in the strip before Ma went super-hero) are the kind of family you would often see in the strips of the time: Large and boisterous, never short on trying to help but usually just getting in the way. But they sure know how to have fun! Ma Hunkel’s role in the series grows when she starts working at a small grocery store and becomes a costumed heroine in response to all the criminal activity around her. Humorously, no one knows who she really is, not even Scribbly! And they can’t even tell she’s a female! The Red Tornado is just pure fun and different from any other super-hero DC had at the time, with her adventures more resembling those in C.C. Beck’s “Captain Marvel” stories. Sadly, not much became of the Red Tornado—with the exception of appearing with the JSA in All-Star Comics #3. Once Scribbly was published in his own title, the Red Tornado was gone and so was the Hunkel family. In Scribbly, the boy cartoonist once again becomes the focus of the stories. It was almost as if the youngster was given a fresh start after being overtaken earlier by the Red Tornado in his All-American Comics feature. In 1948, Mayer gives up his duties as a DC editor to devote time to writing and drawing comics, his real love. In that same year, Scribbly #1 is published. Mayer really sinks his teeth into the early issues, as they were, quite possibly, the best work he ever did. Containing superb covers and splash panels, more open and fluid story layouts, the issues featured slapstick humor kicked up to a higher level. Issue #1 begins with Scribbly taking his rightful place as the well-respected king of cartoonists and is shown working on his famous super-hero strip, Speedy-Man. We soon find out that this is only a dream, but this scene sets up Scribbly’s desire to be a great COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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cartoonist and introduces the series’ other characters. In the beginning, Mayer seems unsure if he should have Scribbly work for a comic book publisher (Rational Comics) or a newspaper (the character ends up with the newspaper). Scribbly wants to work on a popular comic strip called Terrificman (looking a lot like Superman) but they already had someone on the project. Her name was Red Rigley. Mayer is not afraid to use women in occupations that most comic book creators reserve only for men. Scribbly falls for Red in a big way, even though she’s a bit older than he. The editor, Mr. O’Hara, is already involved with her, which leads into many love triangle stories between the three main characters. (It should be noted that the editor also appears in the earlier “Scribbly” incarnation as well, though the two versions of the editor bare no resemblance. The first O’Hara looks like a character out of Mutt & Jeff, while the second is somewhat like Cary Grant, only sporting blonde hair.) Mr. Birdnest is the publisher of the newspaper. Scribbly’s mother is put through the same makeover as the editor. His brother looks the same and was still named Dinky but the title of his stories now went by the name “Lillul Snoony.” Dinky’s girlfriend was also the same and there were appearances by the family dog, Dizzy Dog! Scribbly does a little of everything at the paper and often becomes the news himself, with tales of Scribbly as cowboy, movie star, football hero, boxer, rodeo rider, and even a fighting pirate. He appears many times in Western stories, a theme that may have to do with Mayer’s real-life interest in American history and horse riding. Mayer even did jokes with Scribbly imitating Groucho Marx, Jimmy Durante, and Oliver Hardy. The first five or so issues of Scribbly are very animated in style and use exaggerated facial expressions lending to the visual humor of the stories. There is a quality at work here similar to the antics of a Preston Sturges movie. Some of the issues are full-length stories which was not the norm for DC at that time. A female character named Clover Cooley is eventually brought in as a real love interest for Scribbly (someone closer to his own age than Red). Their romance becomes the main focus of the episodes for the final few issues. In some ways, Scribbly becomes more of a regular teen comic at this point. O’Hara and Red totally disappear, and in fact, there are no more stories about the newspaper office. (This may be due to the success of teen titles like Leave It to Binky and Buzzy for DC, and Archie and Patsy Walker for rival publishers.) In order to establish that tried-and-true plot device, the love triangle, a male character named Bentley is introduced into the series. Bentley is romantically interested in Clover—not good for Scribbly—with Clover’s little sister also playing a part, adding spice to the love triangle. An odd thing (for comics, that is) happens with his romance with Clover, in that Scribbly starts growing up. Few comic book characters actually aged at the time and certainly none from DC come to mind. The first 13 issues of the title’s run are 52-pagers and the last two are 32-pagers. The final two issues appear inked by someone else, maybe Bob Oksner, though Mayer is always at his best when inking his own work. Even the Rudolph stories from the 1970s, while nice, would have been better if Mayer had inked the project himself. Mayer had a habit of doing the same story over again. This may not seem unusual if you take into account the time period. In those days it was a common practice to reuse a story or idea from years earlier. The thinking was: How many people would notice? Many who read a story the first time were, more than likely, no longer reading comic books anymore by the time of the “recycling.” (Today, with continuity and reprints, this recycling would probably not go over too well with the fans.) One story Mayer reused was a horse riding/rodeo tale. He even made it the cover feature when printed in Scribbly #5. The cover of Scribbly #2 is an old “Why Big Brudders Leave Home” gag. A story concerning Scribbly wanting his editor’s approval was done twice, as well as a tale about Dinky’s date with his girlfriend. Mayer would go on to do the same thing with Sugar & Spike. The 1980s digests and international stories have many recycled covers, story ideas, and ending gags to them. As far as I can tell from available sources, the first appearance of Scribbly is in Popular Comics #6 (1936) for Dell Publishing. Scribbly also appears in (at least) issues #8 and 9 of the same title. Many of these Dell comics are filled with strip reprints. “Scribbly” is set up to look like it was a full-page Sunday strip, with continuing stories. Jan. 2001

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Scribbly then appears in The Funnies #2 (Nov. 1936), also for Dell. He stays in that title for some time until Mayer leaves Dell for AllAmerican (DC Comics). Scribbly’s first appearance at DC is in AllAmerican Comics #1 (April 1939), with a long run in this title, ending with #59. There are also appearances in Comic Cavalcade #1-7. 1948 was the start of the 15-issue run of Scribbly. Issues #14 and 15 were 32-pagers. They may have been intended to be 52-pagers (as were the first 13 issues), but were, perhaps, cut back at the last moment and the overflow content was published elsewhere. Buzzy #32-34, 39, and Leave It to Binky #15 each have a “Scribbly” backup story, appearing after Scribbly’s title is cancelled. In Sugar & Spike #30, Mayer does a story for all the fans of Scribbly to enjoy, with the once-”midget cartoonist” appearing as a grown up with his hands full with his own son, Scribbly Jr.! Talk about crossovers! In 1988, Sheldon Mayer wrote and drew his last “Scribbly” story, a threepager featuring the Red Tornado, in Secret Origins #29. Even the renowned cartoonist/writer Jules Feiffer believes Mayer’s Scribbly work is worth investigating. Not long ago, The Comics Journal reprinted Feiffer’s notes from his groundbreaking ’60s book The Great Comic Book Heroes. Feiffer states his respect for Mayer and Scribbly and planned on featuring them in the book, though later deciding the inclusion didn’t fit the scope of the project. It has been far too long since most readers have had the chance to view Mayer’s early accomplishments. Let’s hope that DC will put some of Mayer’s classic work back into print for a new generation of fans to enjoy.

Above: As best as we can tell, here’s Sheldon Mayer’s greatest Golden Age creation’s first appearance in (ye ghads!) a non-DC comic book, from Popular Comics #6, 1936, published by Dell. Courtesy of Rocco Nigro. Scribbly ©2000 DC Comics.

CBA Interview

Sugar’s Daddy Talking with Merrily Mayer Harris, Shelly’s Daughter Conducted by Bill Alger I originally got in touch with Sheldon Mayer’s daughter, Merrily, a few years ago through her brother Lanney, who suggested that she might be able to help with some questions I had about their father. I was pleased to find that Merrily is an enthusiastic admirer of her father’s work and a limitless source of information pertaining to his life.When I began gathering material for this issue, Merrily supplied me with copies of family momentos including a cache of previously unpublished family photos, for which I am eternally grateful. This interview, copyedited by Merrily, began with a series of e-mails, was continued through the post and concluded with conversations conducted over the phone. Thanks again to Merrily for going well beyond my expectations in helping me to make this issue a reality.—Bill Alger Comic Book Artist: Let’s start by getting a little information about your father’s childhood. Could you tell me when and where Sheldon was born? Merrily Mayer: He was born on April Fool’s Day in 1917 in a poor Jewish neighborhood in Harlem, New York. He was born at home. His parents were separated at the time of birth (and I’m not really sure if it was in his mother’s or grandmother’s apartment where he was born), but I remember him telling me he was stillborn, and that it was his grandmother (his mother Jennie Grossman Greenberger’s mother) Hannah Grossman, who in desperation painstakingly brought him back to life. I think she wrapped him in wet, cold and then warm towels over and over until he started breathing. CBA: Was there a medical reason given for his being stillborn? Merrily: I don’t remember if a doctor ever showed up, or if there was a “medical reason” given for his being a stillborn. But I do remember him telling me that his mother was embarrassed and afraid when she was in labor and wouldn’t give into it, trying for some reason to keep him in there. Having been at that stage of delivery too long, he apparently ran out of air and just stopped breathing. CBA: Can you give me some background on Sheldon’s parents, such as when they were born and what they did for a living? Merrily: His mother’s name was Jennie (I’m not sure what that was short for) Grossman. 14-B

She would never tell anybody her real age, but one day let it slip that she was 18 when my dad was born. So that would put her birth date somewhere around 1899. My paternal grandfather’s name was Samuel Greenberger and he was a shoemaker in Lakewood, New Jersey. My grandmother remarried (when my dad was about four years old) to a man named Leo Mayer, and he was a meat-cutter in a butcher shop. Leo’s family was from Germany, but I’m not sure which generation it was that came over. My dad’s father remarried, and I think dad only saw him once or twice after that. I remember dad saying that his real father was very special and that he thought a lot of him, but to keep peace with his mother, dad didn’t make an effort to contact him. CBA: Was your father’s last name originally Greenberger? Merrily: I haven’t been able to find his birth certificate yet, so I don’t know if he was born Grossman or Greenberger. But I remember my dad telling me that the kids in his school teased him for having a different last name than his mother Jennie, Mrs. Leo Mayer. For that reason, and for the fact he had grown to love his new father, Leo, he wanted to let Leo adopt him. At that time not being able to afford an expensive adoption process, they just changed his last name to Mayer. Grandpa Leo died of cancer in around 1959, and it was after that when my mother looked up my dad’s real father, Sam Greenberger and went to visit him in Lakewood, New Jersey. I now regret never having gotten the chance to meet him, but when my first daughter was born (in 1967) I got a very nice letter from him, and shortly after that my dad called him and I got to talk (briefly) with him on the phone. In any interviews with my dad that you might read, when he referred to “my dad,” he was talking about Leo Mayer; when he said “my father,” he meant his real father, Samuel Greenberger. I never once heard my father refer to Grandpa Leo as his stepfather; he chose to use the words “dad” and “father” to make that distinction. CBA: What was Sheldon’s middle name? Merrily: I remember him telling me that he never had a middle name, and for some reason, when he wrote his full name out, he would include “N.M.I.” between his first and last name, which meant Sheldon “No Middle Initial” Mayer. I’m not quite sure why he took the trouble to do that, but those who knew him knew he was a stickler for details, and given his sense of humor, it wasn’t really all that atypical of him. CBA: Did your father have any brothers or sisters? Merrily: Yes, his mother and Grandpa Leo had one more son, Monroe. The baby brother was born when Sheldon was about eleven. He never once referred to Monroe as his half brother, he was his “kid brother” and he took the role of being a big brother very seriously. He also did mention to me one day that after his real father had remarried, they had a son, too. His name was Billy. Apparently, Billy had been seriously injured during World War II, and for some reason, wound up being institutionalized. I’ll never forget the day he told me about my Uncle Billy. He said, “You know, he’s just as much my brother as Monroe was” (but Sheldon never got to meet Billy). CBA: Was your father very talkative about his childhood? I was wondering what his relatives were like and if they influenced his sense of humor and his love of cartooning. Merrily: Yes, he talked quite a bit about his childhood and life in New York City in general. His family was quite poor when he was growing up, so at first they thought his drawing pictures everywhere was just a waste of time. (He did draw them everywhere—on the back of his homework assignments, on walls—everywhere.) As I COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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understand it, my grandmother’s (his mother Jennie’s) parents were Hungarian immigrants. Life was a struggle for them. And from his accounts, his mother (unlike his grandmother) seemed to view everything as an obstacle rather than a challenge. So his being different posed a “problem” for her. I remember him telling me that when he was quite young, people noticed his talent and urged her to enroll him in an art school. I don’t know where she found this particular one, or whether it was part of a public high school that had an emphasis on art for those who qualified, but she was told that his talent was beyond what they taught there. Instead of being proud, she was furious. “Now what do I do with you?!?” was her screaming attitude. So no, I don’t think he had a whole lot of encouragement at that point. His mother meant well, but she was young, uneducated and scared—viewing most things as a threat. She was a bit volatile and would yell and scream in most instances rather than access a situation and then clearly deal with it. His grandmother Hannah became his hiding place, a sort of safety/comfort zone. I never got to know my real grandfather (Sam Greenberger) very well, but for the most part the rest of my dad’s family appeared to me to be ignorant and greedy. Did they possess any talent? None I ever noticed…. You asked me where my dad got his sharp sense of humor from and I really had to think about that one. He really was unique and unlike the rest of his family. His grandmother Hannah died when I was very little and I don’t remember her, but I do recall my dad telling me of the loving and playful relationship he had with her. Maybe that’s where he got it; I’m not sure. No one else in his family seemed to have as much going for them as he did, sense of humor or otherwise. CBA: What comic strips did your father enjoy as a child? Did any particularly inspire him to become a cartoonist? Merrily: I don’t remember him telling me about what he liked to read or whom he was influenced by when he was growing up, but he did love drawing cartoons at a very young age. Things were tough for him growing up in New York City. Money was tight and to his mother, any new thing was a problem that she wished she didn’t have to deal with. And the way she dealt with most situations, initially, was to get hysterical and then yell, scream and complain. My dad had an incredible sense of humor and found a way of making fun of the ridiculous. So for him, it was making fun of what could have been an uncomfortable situation and drawing cartoons became a kind of escape. CBA: Did your father ever joke about being born on April First as contributing to his sense of the absurd? Merrily: Oh, that was sad. He didn’t joke about it… well, yeah, he did a little bit. He said things like, “I was my mother’s April Fool.” But the thing that was sad—and he never talked about it, but I know—I remember he was very sensitive, and if you told someone it was your birthday, and it was April first, they wouldn’t believe you, and they were mean in those days. They were so mean. I know he had a hard childhood. He did joke a little bit about it. I think it was really sad that

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he was born on that day, because he couldn’t tell anybody it was his birthday… you’d say that, and then people in those days, not only wouldn’t they believe you, but they would do something mean. I think that was kind of sad he was born that day… CBA: So “Happy birthday!” and then they’d be cruel to him? Merrily: Well, no. It was like, “It’s my birthday,” and nobody would believe him. “Yeah, sure, right, yeah, here’s an April Fool’s joke for you!” And they’d do something mean. He was really sensitive. I mean, he really thought everything had to be so perfect and had to be a certain way. He didn’t like Archie Bunker, because he was really afraid people would believe that was the way to think. He didn’t think that show should be on TV because people might take it seriously. He was very worried about things, even in the comics. CBA: Was he also influenced by animated cartoons? In 1934, Sheldon worked as an opaquer at the Fleisher animation studio. Did he ever consider going into animation as a career instead of drawing comic strips? Merrily: When I was about sixteen and we still lived in Rye (not far from New Rochelle— about 25 miles north of New Yok City), most of my friends were

Opposite top: The brains of the tots (before Bernie appeared, that is), assertive Sugar Plumm in a detail from an unpublished Sheldon Mayer newspaper strip sample. Courtesy of Robin Snyder. Art ©2000 The Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Sugar ©2000 DC Comics. Opposite below: Young Merrily Mayer trying to keep within the lines in this 1945 picture courtesy of the budding colorist. ©2000 Merrily Mayer Harris. Above: Merrily, the inspiration for Sugar, exploring the wonders of life in a circa 1946 photo. Courtesy of and ©2000 MMH.

Above: Courtesy of Merrily Mayer Harris, here are (upper right) Shelly’s mother, Jennie Grossman Greenberger, (top) Shelly’s Harlem, New York City birthplace, and (above) Jennie and her young tot, circa 1918. ©2000 Merrily Mayer Harris.

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getting summer jobs as lifeguards at Rye Beach or at one of the local beach clubs. I asked him if I could opaque for the summer (it was about 1960) and his exact words were, “You can opaque your life away. There’s no future in it.” And that was that. So I don’t know how much he appreciated having done that, or if he just didn’t want me doing it. But I do know that for a time (and I’m not sure what year this was, or for how long) but he did ghost animate Felix the Cat for a while. I don’t know how many people knew that because of prior contract commitments and what not (or how much trouble I will be in for mentioning it!) CBA: He worked on Felix the Cat? Merrily: He did Felix the Cat and he did Mutt and Jeff when Ham Fisher couldn’t do it. He did all those things. I don’t know if he ghosted it because he was under contract or because they didn’t want anybody to know that Ham Fisher couldn’t do it. At any rate, when he did Mutt and Jeff, I liked it better than when Ham Fisher did it! CBA: Was this the Mutt and Jeff comic strip or the DC comic book? Merrily: I think it was the comic book. Yeah, and I don’t know what the deal was. My dad said something about Ham’s hand being shaky or something. Maybe Ham didn’t want anyone to know he wasn’t still able to do it, he’d hurt his hand, or he was getting older, or whatever it was, I’m not sure if he had Parkinson’s or what happened to him. I don’t know how many stories my dad did or how many issues, but he showed me one he had drawn and it was awesome. I wish I had some of those that he did, they were so good! He did do fill-ins for Felix the Cat, and I can’t remember for how long, or which ones he did. But when he did something, it was good, I mean, it was better than when the originator did it! I’d love to see him get his hands on Rugrats… [laughter] CBA: What type of work did he do on Felix? Merrily: He animated at least one episode for TV. CBA: This would have been in the late 1950s, early ’60s? Merrily: That sounds about right. CBA: Oh, so he was working on that while he was doing Sugar & Spike? Merrily: I think so. Someone asked me how much time he put in for DC each day, and I think it was from when he woke up to when he went to sleep. If he was on a picnic with us, he had a sketchbook with him. He would always pull out a piece of paper and write something down in a book. He was always working, it seemed to me. Even when he was having fun, he was working, because he was always getting ideas that he could use in a story. CBA: Did he contribute any writing to the Felix cartoons? Merrily: Well, I’d imagine he did. I think he wrote it and drew for it. I don’t know for how long and I don’t think there was a whole lot of it. I remember he was kind of proud that they asked him to do it. He did some things in New York, he went down to the city to do that, because that’s where they had all the equipment. I saw him draw

on great big pieces of Bristol board—poster-sized pieces. He’d pencil and then ink them, because he didn’t like the way they were inked when he just sent in penciled sketches. But I didn’t see him work on the animation. CBA: When your father was a teenager, he worked as an assistant to cartoonist “Ving” Fuller at the New York Mirror newspaper. In 1935, he joined the McClure Syndicate and ended up ghosting George Storm’s Bobby Thatcher in 1937. Did he ever speak to you about his early cartooning jobs and the struggles he went through to get established? Merrily: He did often mention the struggles—working for Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson and other people who had the habit of “misrepresenting the truth”—but the only one of those whom you mentioned I ever met and remember dad talking about was Ving Fuller. One particular story comes to mind: I was about ten-ish when I came across a picture of Ving. He claims to have invented—and managed to get a patent on—a little pink pig about a foot long and six or so inches fat. That was a piggy bank whose nose was a combination lock. The picture was of Ving Fuller standing next to President Eisenhower with his piggy bank on what I remember to be a big elaborate dinner table, with lots of people around it. This was about 1954 and at the age I was very impressed. Ving had given my brother and me one of those pigs—and here he was with one and the President! I remember commenting to my dad that Ving must be pretty important to be having dinner with the President! He then told me that it had been some kind of media event and that Ving just walked over there, put his pig down, and got someone to take a picture of them together with his pig. Security wasn’t as tight then, and that type of thing was easier to accomplish in those days. I remember getting the impression from my dad that the picture was a might bit misrepresentational and that Ving could be a little irritating and selfabsorbed. [laughs] I thought it was really cool, but I don’t think my dad thought much of it. CBA: Do you know what sort of work your father did for Ving when he was his assistant? Merrily: You know, I don’t. Dad didn’t talk about it too much. I don’t think dad liked him a whole lot, so I don’t know what he did for Ving. I just know he didn’t think a whole lot of him. He just looked at him kind of like a rude opportunist. Dad wanted genuine stuff out of people, and I’m not sure he always got that from Ving. CBA: Your father said that Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson and other people had the habit of misrepresenting the truth. Did he find that the people he worked for early on were less than honest? Merrily: It’s not that they weren’t honest, they were just so unfair to each other. He didn’t like people to take advantage of each other, and in New York, a lot of people were like that. I can remember a story he told me where he was with a friend—can’t think of his name—and they were talking with two girls. They were on a beach and one of the girls said, “I’m starting to get hungry,” The other guy said something rude, like “Bite your nails, baby,” or something like that. [laughter] And my dad was furious with him. The guy’s attitude was, “Well, you’re on your own with eating,” because men were supposed to pay for things. And this guy had the attitude, “Well, I’m not taking you out to dinner.” This upset my dad and I think he wound up taking them out to dinner to make up for that guy’s rude remark. CBA: Was he ever upset by DC’s treatment of writers and artists who contributed to the creation of major characters? Merrily: I think so, but I don’t remember specifics. Later on, he said that DC was very fair. He wouldn’t have stayed with them if it weren’t a good opportunity for him to do what he loved to do. CBA: Plus they seemed to treat him better in the long run than most of the other people who worked for DC in the 1940s and ’50s. Merrily: Isn’t that interesting? He was a leader and I think that helped. I don’t know if it was because they really liked him, or because they realized he was very valuable. Maybe they thought he was fair to them and they wanted to be fair to him. I’m not sure, but I know that towards the end of his life, they were very fair with him. Towards the end, DC had an agreement where they provided insurance for both my parents, who needed medical attention around the clock. They were very sick, and DC did wonderful things for both of them. COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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CBA: Do you think that DC admired him because he was responsible for convincing the editors to publish “Superman”? Merrily: I always got the idea from him that whenever anybody did anything for people like that, that then you’d have to do more the next time. In other words, if you were wonderful once, and the next time if you weren’t as wonderful, they’d get on your case. I remember him saying things like, “The more you do, the more you have to do!” [laughs] It’s not like they’d say, “Wow, you’re great!” They’d just want more out of you! CBA: Your dad entered the embryonic comic book field in 1935 by working on Wheeler Nicholson’s New Fun Comics. Did he ever discuss his relationship with Wheeler and his own experiences being a pioneer in the industry? Merrily: I remember him telling me of instances where he got blamed for doing things that he knew better than to do. But that the person who had done them was afraid of being fired, and felt that my dad, being so young (he was only 18 when he started there) would only get yelled at, and (with the help of the culprit) could talk his way out of it. The guy said, “I told the boss you did this because you’re not going to get fired.” I remember my dad telling me, “It was the stupidest thing. I wouldn’t have even done anything that stupid!” So then, the guy brought him before the big boss and said, “I’ve already spoken to Shelly about this and he doesn’t need to be yelled at twice.” (My dad was thinking to himself, “You’d better not yell at me once….”) CBA: In 1936, Max Gaines (who was working in a partnership with the McClure Syndicate) hired a young Sheldon to assist him with his burgeoning line of comic books. Did your father ever speak of his relationship with Gaines and how they worked together? Merrily: Yes, often. A few things stand out in my mind. I remember him telling me about one particular incident when he was working on a story. It was still in his typewriter and Gaines came by my dad’s desk with a huge pair of scissors, and cut Dad’s article as it was coming out of the typewriter saying, “that’s all we have room for.” Snip! He cut it and made off with the top half. He was laughing about it when he told me, but I’m sure it frustrated him. He didn’t like that. M.C. Gaines was tough to work for. I think they had a good relationship, though. I think M.C. really, truly loved my dad. My dad and Bill [Gaines, M.C.’s son] were very close, also. He loved Bill. I think eventually my dad endeared himself to people, and they really liked him. One other thing that stands out in my mind, and might have contributed to the fact that my dad tended to be a little superstitious. I have a picture of a really neat (about six inches high) statue that he carved of Max Gaines. One night while on the shelf my dad kept it on, it just cracked and burst into pieces. I was about a year old when this happened and my dad said I got scared and started screaming. (I don’t remember this—it was his account.) Anyway, the next day Gaines died tragically in a boating accident. While in a boat that another boat had crashed into, he was knocked into the water, and being that he couldn’t swim, drowned. My dad worked very closely with Gaines, and I get the idea that he and everyone that knew or worked with Gaines had a love/hate relationship with him. They loved him because they had a job and hated him because he was a pain in the neck (not the term my dad used!) to work for. At Gaines’ funeral, the rabbi was going on and on about what a nice guy he was, and how much he would be missed. According to my dad, this made everybody in the synagogue realize that the rabbi had actually never met Gaines! CBA: When your father was working at the DC/All-American offices, he was editing Wonder Woman and All-American and he was Jan. 2001

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instrumental in the creation of a number of super-hero characters. Did he ever discuss that with you? Merrily: A little, but I don’t remember very much about it. He had something to do with the Green Lantern, too, and he did talk about that. CBA: What did he say, do you remember? Merrily: He felt that people loved super-heroes. CBA: But he tended to concentrate on humor a little more. Merrily: Well… he was so good at it. I don’t know which he enjoyed more. He liked super-heroes, but yeah, he loved being funny. There was no way around that. He loved being ridiculously funny. [laughs] CBA: Did you father ever talk about DC’s relationship with Siegel and Shuster, who created Superman? Merrily: If he did, I don’t remember. I do remember that he felt they should rethink their decision not to publish “Superman.” He encouraged Siegel and Shuster and helped them with the original storyboard until it was finally accepted and ultimately published. He helped do something that they would accept so it would get published because he thought they really were on to something. My dad is very good at seeing underlying things, the meta-message, and the way you could change something and the way things could be. CBA: Instead of pigeon-holing... Merrily: Yeah, exactly! He never did that. He was very capable of seeing the other side of something and what else could be developed. He was very good at that. He was frustrated

Above: Sheldon Mayer (holding up mug) circa early-’40s on a visit to Photochrome, taking a coffee break with the engraving shop’s production men, George Vamos (right) and Allen Garvin. Behind Shelly sits Mama Scaus. Courtesy of and ©2000 Merrily Mayer Harris.

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Above: Didja know Shelly produced a Scribbly/Sugar & Spike crossover in S&S #30, featuring the first and only appearance to date of Scribbly, Jr.? Here’s a few panels from that classic tale. ©2000 DC Comics.

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with people when they couldn’t do that. CBA: In the mid-1930s, Sheldon created a character that he was closely associated with: Scribbly, the boy cartoonist. Merrily: He was Scribbly! CBA: So Scribbly pretty much reflected your father’s personality? Merrily: I think so. Pretty much. I read more of those than Sugar & Spike. Mr. O’Hara, of course, was M.C. Gaines. He didn’t make him look anything like him. “O’Hara” was an Irish guy. Not a short, bald Jewish guy, he had a lot of hair. Maybe to make him less recognizable. But that’s who it was. It was his boss. You can look at Mr. O’Hara in a story and you can bet that something Gaines did sparked that! [laughs] CBA: It seems that the stories changed a lot when Scribbly got his own comic book. It became more of a teen-age dating comic book. Merrily: Well, that had something to do with Leave It to Binky and Archie and everything. They were pressuring him to make it like those kinds of comic books. They put the screws to him to make him do that, I think. Didn’t they make Scribbly taller, like Binky, in the end? CBA: Yeah. Merrily: Well, that was the Leave It to Binky stuff and he wasn’t happy with that. CBA: Didn’t he help develop Leave it to Binky? Merrily: Maybe he did, but he didn’t like doing Scribbly that way. He’d rather have something die and leave it the way it was than to change it and ruin it. CBA: So he might have not been too disappointed when Scribbly was finally cancelled? Merrily: I’m sure he was, but he didn’t want to change it to please people and not be happy with it himself. CBA: He later brought back Scribbly in an issue of Sugar & Spike. Merrily: Oh, he did? I didn’t know that. I’m finding out so much about my dad from the fans. CBA: Yeah, Sugar and Spike were at the beach and they meet this little baby, Scribbly Jr. Merrily: [Excitedly] Oh, I didn’t see that! What issue was that in? [Sugar & Spike #30] Look it up! Yeah, maybe you can make a copy for me! I’d love to read that! That’s cute, awwww… Yeah, these were family mem-

bers, these cartoons were special, and they were part of everything. That doesn’t surprise me, actually, that he would do that, connect everything. CBA: Did he talk much about Scribbly to you? Merrily: Yeah. Every issue that ever was, he put together in a bound book and that was very personal to him. And later on, somebody said, “Well, they’re not valuable, because they’re in a book,” but he had every one. My brother had taken that book when he was little, and my dad was furious, and because of that, when he died, I wanted my brother to have that book, and I told my dad that, I said, “Give that book to Lanney, because remember when he took it?” He said, “That’s a stupid reason!” When I said that to my brother, I said, “Take this, because I remember when you took that because you wanted it.” That’s a stupid reason for me to do it, but I gave him that book. I just felt that should be his, but I wish I had it again. I would love to look at it, and read it too. CBA: He also had something to do with developing a comic called Buzzy. Merrily: Wasn’t that kind of like the Leave It to Binky thing? CBA: Yeah, I think they were pretty similar. Merrily: That had to do, I think, with the Archie Andrews influence. DC wanted to have something like that. I think there was something else—Leave It to Millie or whatever. There was a Milliesomething, and Archie Andrews… CBA: Millie the Model? Merrily: Yeah! Millie the Model, that’s right. I think that was a version of those things that were becoming popular. He wasn’t real thrilled with that. He didn’t want to imitate other things. He wanted to do something that was unique. He didn’t like imitations. He didn’t mind people imitating him, he was very flattered by it, but he felt if it’s already been done, let’s do something else. CBA: Did he ever discuss his humorous female super-hero, the Red Tornado? Merrily: I’d seen it only after he died in reprints. CBA: Jack Liebowitz became the publisher at DC comics. Did your father find it easy to work under him? Merrily: See, my dad got irritated with Ving Fuller for being kind of a pain, but I don’t know how he felt about Liebowitz except that I know he must’ve respected him in some way, because he was always doing things he thought Liebowitz might like. I think it must have been hard to work for him, because my dad was glad when he didn’t have to deal with him. CBA: I’ve seen hand-drawn holiday and birthday cards your father sent Liebowitz. From the amount of detail, you’d think that they were close. Merrily: They might’ve been, I’m sure he really liked him or he wouldn’t have done the cards. I remember the pressure he was under, for some reason—I’m sure he liked him, or he wouldn’t have done all the stuff he did. Beautiful stuff but I was around when he was doing them. This is just a ten-year-old’s viewpoint of it, but he was in a bad mood the whole time he was working on them. I think there was a lot of pressure between those two guys the whole time. I’ve never seen him like that. Usually, he’d just do something and enjoy it, but when he was working on things for Liebowitz, he was uptight until they were finished. CBA: Did your dad feel the need to impress Liebowitz because of his position at DC? Merrily: My dad didn’t go out of his way to impress people. He had enough going for him to where, “If you like it, fine, and if you don’t, well that’s your loss.” I don’t think he was a brown-noser, really. CBA: Apparently, your father got along with M.C. Gaines’ son, William Gaines, fairly well. Merrily: Yeah, they were very close. Bill worked for my dad when he was 14, and they were close, right to the end of my dad’s life. They loved each other. My dad really cared about him, and Bill looked up to my dad a lot. I remember Bill when I was a little kid and he’d come over to visit. COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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CBA: What did he do for your father at DC/All-American? Merrily: He was about 14. Max used to bring him to work, so my dad would keep him busy. It was just give him something to do. Put him to work. He was only about five years younger than my dad, but that’s a big gap between 14 and 19. He said Bill used to be mischievous. My dad would have to work and watch him at the same time. [laughter] I’m not sure what he did for him, but it was my dad’s job to keep him out of trouble. [laughs] CBA: What did you think of him? Merrily: When I knew him, he was nothing like the way you’d see him later on TV. He was very quiet. When he was in my dad’s house, he always acted like he was a little kid. Like he was being watched and supervised. We weren’t little kids together… believe it or not, he was almost my dad’s age! I was a little kid! But around me—I was around six or seven—he always acted like he was one of the little kids. He always sat there as if he was going to get into trouble, like he was in the principal’s office. It was really weird. [laughter] And he didn’t have the beard or the long hair or anything. He was in a suit and tie; he’d bring different girls up for my dad to approve of or disapprove of. CBA: How was Bill’s relationship with his own father? Merrily: Well, from what I gathered, his dad yelled at him a lot. I think it was hard to get along with M.C. Gaines, and I think that’s why my dad wanted to befriend Bill so much in the beginning. To protect him from that, because my dad’s mother did that to him. That’s one of the reasons he befriended him, initially. Then as time passed, of course, they were equals. Before that, he was like a father to Bill. I think that’s how that got started, because M.C. Gaines was a tyrant. He was probably a good guy, but in those days, that’s what people in New York City did (Hungarian Jews). [laughs] CBA: Do you think that being so close to Bill Gaines gave your father an advantage when dealing with DC in his later years? Merrily: I don’t think so, he was above Bill Gaines in the beginning. Bill was just a kid who was brought to work by his dad and needed to be supervised. CBA: I mean later on, in the 1980s. Merrily: I’m not sure. I really don’t know. I would hope not. I don’t know. I never thought about that. [laughs] CBA: In the 1950s, Bill Gaines had troubles with the congressional committee investigating the influence of comic books on juvenile delinquency. Did your father ever comment on Bill’s role in the proceedings? Merrily: Yeah, I don’t remember the whole thing. But I remember when Mad magazine was a comic book and there was a cover with a guy’s head cut off. It was a head lifted way up high and you could see the cuts where it was cut off. I remember we had a copy of that—my dad had it. I remember we were late to school one day because it was on the news that they were coming down on Bill Gaines. He loved Bill dearly, and he never said anything against him, ever. They were very, very close, right up to the end of my dad’s life. Bill did a lot for my dad. There isn’t anything that either one of them wouldn’t do for each other. But I remember the comment my dad made, “That was unfortunate,” He might have been referring to the decision Bill made to do that material, or that the congressmen felt that way about Bill. I’m not sure what the “that” was. I was ten. I was very young. I remember when Mad came out as a magazine, how incredibly funny it was. I think my dad was kind of happy with it, and relieved that Bill found a medium and a way to do what he was good at that was acceptable, that people liked it and he was doing well with it. CBA: The cover that featured the head chopped off was for one of Bill Gaines’ horror comics, and it was actually shown on TV during the Congressional committee. Merrily: I do remember that. We had a copy of the comic, too. I know my dad wasn’t a fan of horror. It was right after the Second World War, so for most people, war was okay at that time still. CBA: Did your father ever comment on Mad magazine? Merrily: He thought it was a very funny magazine. The comic, I don’t know what he thought of, but the magazine he thought was very funny. He liked Don Martin and Ernie Kovacs. CBA: Could you see a lot of Bill’s personality in Mad? Merrily: No. When I knew him he wasn’t funny and crazy and Jan. 2001

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such like the magazine at all. He was just somebody that was waiting for my dad to have time to talk to him. He would sit on the couch like he was waiting for a bus. So, I never saw that side of him. CBA: What did your dad think about the anti-comics backlash in the 1950s? Merrily: I don’t think it bothered him, but I know he was concerned. He had friends that were Democrats and friends that were Republicans. They wanted him to draw pictures for their parties, and he was very afraid to do it because he didn’t want to offend anyone. He might’ve thought, “Ah, this is going to blow over. This is crazy,” I don’t know, He didn’t complain about those things to me. See, he had this dude ranch he’d go to. He’d ride horses, and that was his outlet. He’d write, draw pictures and tell people things. I don’t know who his confidants were. I know that he didn’t want to tell my mother and me too much because he didn’t want to burden us. CBA: So he was never embarrassed to be a comic book artist? Merrily: He was never embarrassed at anything he did. He did it, and was proud, or he stopped doing it. [laughs] He was proud to be a member of the National Cartoonists’ Society. I know my grandmother and her sister went on and on, “He could be in Hollywood, he could be doing this, he

Above: Custom-drawn 1960 birthday card for the boss, Jack Leibowitz, by Shelly. Courtesy of Bill Alger. Below: Another Mayer holiday card. Courtesy of Rocco Nigro. Art ©2000 The Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Characters ©2000 DC Comics.

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Below: Though drawn by the exquisite stylings of Bob Oksner, Shelly was involved in the development of DC’s answer to the Archie craze, Leave It to Binky, a title lasting 10 years. Shelly was also involved in the development of the similar DC book, 1944-58’s Buzzy (“America’s Favorite Teenster”). ©2000 DC Comics.

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could be making so much money!” My dad was totally happy to be doing what he was doing. Could’ve, should’ve, would’ve. He made the decision, and we lived very well! CBA: Did your dad talk much about being a member of The National Cartoonists’ Society? Merrily: He was very proud of it. When he would sign his name, he wrote, “Shelly Mayer, NCS.” I asked him about that, and he said, “Well, that’s the only thing I have. I don’t have Ph.D. and MS and BA after my name, so I have that!” [laughter] He used to go to meetings all the time. I can’t remember the name of the building, but women weren’t allowed in it, so he had to go by himself. If you could get hold of any of those people who were in that, they could tell you funny stories and who his favorite people were. He had friends there and he really enjoyed being a member of that, those meetings and being with those people. He loved that. CBA: In 1948, your father stepped down as editor at DC so he could concentrate on writing and drawing. Did he discuss this decision with you? Merrily: Yeah, it was a headache. He just really wanted… he loved to draw, and he just didn’t want to baby-sit anymore. [laughs] He didn’t put it that way, but that’s what I got, he just had enough of the hassle, he just wanted to draw pictures. That’s what he really wanted to do, he wanted to get out of the city, be in the country. He loved horses and trees and didn’t want us raised in the city. So he left to draw pictures, because that’s what he really loved doing. He said he could draw pictures for the rest of his life. He liked writing stories and stuff and seeing them printed, but he didn’t really like the editing deadlines. It really squeezed him. He didn’t like that. He just wanted to draw pictures. That was so much fun for him. He could do that under a deadline—“Draw me five fat guys!” He could nail them. “With big ears!” He could do that in a heartbeat, no problem. I just get the idea he was very relieved when he was in our house, writing. He liked that so much to go into his studio and look out at the trees and write. He loved that. He did not like the rat race of New York City. He loved the work, but one day he said to me, “I’m going to call the office, I want you to listen to this. I want you to listen to the stupid things I have to deal with.” [laughter] So he gets on his speakerphone. These guys at DC are in a conference, and I couldn’t believe it! It was like… he pulled everything together. He made everything work. He really did. He was a great organizer and a good leader, and he got tired of having to do that. “I don’t want to lead everyone by the nose anymore! They can do what they want.” He did care what people

thought, but he just got tired of how ridiculous the bureaucracy was. He cared about the whole picture. A lot of people didn’t in those days, there were a lot of people that were running scared, that were stymied by being yelled at their whole lives, that they couldn’t see the forest for the trees. CBA: Was there anything in particular that bothered him about his editing job at DC? Merrily: Well… I’m sure there was. I just have to pull it out of my brain. [laughs] I know there was, because I can remember he’d come in laughing… he’d tell me things he had to deal with. I’m glad he laughed about the stuff, because he was under quite a bit of pressure. My mom didn’t hear well and he kind of got frustrated telling her things. She’d sit there with the same look on her face and he lived for feedback! He’d always get a rise out of me, because I’d say something. So he’d tell me. My mom was very quiet. They really were very different. CBA: Irwin Hasen seems to think that your father made a big mistake by not continuing with his career as an editor. Merrily: Well, a lot of people felt that my dad made big mistakes by not going to Hollywood, not doing this, not doing that. He didn’t make a big mistake. He did exactly what he wanted to do! He wanted to get out of there! He wanted to get out of New York City! He wanted to get out of that office! He wanted to be by himself! He wanted to draw cartoons and there was no mistake to it! I don’t think he had any regrets about it! He never felt, “I wish I made more money, I wish I did this, I wish I did that.” He did exactly what he wanted to do! He moved into our house, and built a swimming pool. He had friends over, and we went swimming, had pool parties, and Fourth of July barbecues. He drew pictures. People liked him and respected him, and he was very, very happy with that! He really was. He never said to me that he’d made a mistake, I never heard him say, “I wish I hadn’t done that.” I mean, really never heard him say that as far as the career move. CBA: I wonder how your mom felt about the fact that he was leaving a steady job. Merrily: Well, he bought the house, and he had the money to put down on it outright. They talked him into paying a mortgage, but he had lots of money he’d saved. He’d saved every cent, and I don’t think she was worried about him starving. CBA: It seems like DC continued to pay him pretty well. Merrily: Yeah. We always had what we needed. He wasn’t worried about, “God, if I lost that job!” He could get another one. Nobody was ever worried about what he was going to do. He could do anything! [laughs] I mean, he could fix things, he could make things. He made lamps… he could do anything! He could play music, he could write comedy shows, he could be on TV—he was a good character actor—he could do anything! So I don’t think we ever had to worry about starving. If he got something taken away from him, he’d come back with something else. CBA: After he retired from editing, was your father on the DC payroll, or was he paid as a freelancer? Merrily: I’m not sure. I think he was on the payroll with Sugar & Spike, but I really don’t know the answer to that, my brother might know. CBA: Do you know if he was also serving as a consultant to the editorial staff at DC when he quit editing? Merrily: I’m pretty sure he was. They used to call him about things from time to time. CBA: Do you know in what capacity he served? Merrily: Oh, no, I don’t know, but I know he was down there. I know he talked to them and helped them. They’d call him about stupid things, and he’d put the phone down and say, “Oh, those idiots!” [laughs] Everyone who knows him, knows that he talked like that, “You morons!” [laughter] CBA: How did your parents meet? Merrily: They met on horseback, at a dude ranch in New Jersey. They’d both won blue ribbons in their fields—him for the men and her for the women. So people wanted to get them together because he was a fair-haired boy, and she was very pretty. So they introduced them, and they got married. [laughs] She had been married before and her husband got killed in a car accident. She liked my dad because he reminded her of her first husband. COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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CBA: Did she have any interest in his cartooning? Merrily: Yes, she thought he was a genius. She thought he was very funny and very interesting, and very intelligent. She wanted to be around someone who could make her laugh, and so she did! [laughs] They loved each other, but they were very different. She never did anything with him, because they wanted to do different things. He kind of went off and did his own thing, he just sort of kept her for a pet. She was very quiet, she wasn’t Jewish. She didn’t get in his way, and that’s what he needed. He didn’t need anybody who was just like him. If he had a more normal childhood, he would’ve enjoyed somebody more like himself. But he looked at it as competition, which he couldn’t deal with very well. He was so used to having to defend his territory that he didn’t want anyone who would be intrusive, so he wound up with someone that didn’t talk a lot. CBA: What were his interests, as far as things he and your mother didn’t do together? Merrily: Well, they did the horse thing together, but after they had us, I don’t know what they did. They just kind of went their separate ways. They were always married, but they were just different. She became very religious, and got into a church group. He liked horses, and photography and drawing. She liked to go to church and be by herself. CBA: Did being from different religions ever cause problems for your parents? Merrily: For them, it didn’t. For us, it did; to please one of them, you couldn’t please the other. He would say, “Ah, those Gentiles!” And she’d say, “Oh, you know how your dad is.” So that was very hard on us, but they got along. They were okay with it, but we weren’t. It wasn’t easy for us, my brother and I, because everyone else was going to church or synagogue, and we couldn’t do either one! [laughs] We didn’t fit in either one. CBA: So you didn’t go to any kind of... Merrily: No, I didn’t go to anything. When I got older, my mom became very religious, and she tried to get us to go to church. I went to please her, but I didn’t want to. My brother became a minister. You have to do your own thing. You can’t do what someone else wants you to. CBA: Did your dad have one character he created that was his favorite? Merrily: I don’t know. I think whatever he was working on at the time. He was very sad when The Three Mousketeers got cut. It was his choice, I think, that Sugar & Spike took off, so he had to concentrate on that. I remember him coming in and saying, “Well, no more Mousketeers,” to my mother. He was kind of sad about that. Whatever he worked on, he loved working on it. It would be easier to tell you what he didn’t like, which I don’t even know. [laughter] He enjoyed drawing anything. He would be drawing, and he’d be talking to me while he’d be drawing. I’d be telling him something about school, and he’d be drawing a little caricature of the situation, and then while I was still talking, he’d show me what he drew. He loved to draw anything. I know he didn’t consider that a chore, he loved Halloween, he loved everything. CBA: After your father gave up The Three Mousketeers, another artist continued it. Merrily: Well, he didn’t want that to happen. He wanted to do it, but they wanted him to concentrate on Sugar & Spike, and… now, what’s the name of that guy? I’ve met him, he was heavy-set, what was his name? Who did The Mouseketeers afterwards… Rube…? CBA: Grossman? Merrily: Yeah, Grossman! Rube was very sweet, dad liked him, but he didn’t like the way Rube did The Three Mousketeers, and it died after that! I remember him saying, “They killed it!” [laughter] It Jan. 2001

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wasn’t good anymore, and he was sad about that. CBA: Was he still writing it? Merrily: No, he totally abandoned it, as far as I know, because he had to do Sugar & Spike. He loved The Three Mouseketeers and he liked Rube. Rube came to our house a few times, but dad realized the guy was limited. CBA: What was Rube Grossman like? Merrily: He’s very nice, very sweet. A family man. He’d come over with presents for my brother and I, and hug us and kiss us. He was very sweet. He loved his wife, and he was very nice. CBA: Did your dad mention what he thought of Grossman’s other comic work? Merrily: I don’t know what else he did, I just know that my dad didn’t think he was very good at it. [laughs] CBA: He also did the Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer comic strip and comic book. Merrily: Are you taking about my dad or Rube? CBA: Rube Grossman. Merrily: I don’t know what else Rube did. He used to come to the house until he did a mediocre job on The Mouseketeers.[laughs] I don’t know if it was just circumstantial, or they got older and sicker and weaker, and couldn’t come all the way from New York City to Rye. We lived 25 miles north of the city in Westchester. That was a big thing to get on the freeway and go to Westchester to New York City. So not that many people came, plus dad was very protective of our house, and he didn’t want everybody over there. He had Rube over a few times, but then never again, and I don’t know quite why. CBA: Did your dad mention anything in particular that Rube had done wrong with The Three Mouseketeers? Merrily: I know he was very upset, and didn’t like the way it was

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Above: The Mouseketeers crossover into Sugar’s world in this page produced for the international market but unseen Stateside. Characters ©2000 DC Comics. Below: ’40s shot of a playful Irwin Hasen. Courtesy of Merrily Mayer Harris.

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done, and he said, “They killed it! Killed it!” [laughter] I just remember he was very upset when it was no longer published. He was sad about that, but didn’t say too much else. CBA: Did other people from the comics industry visit your family? Merrily: Not very many. Bill Gaines was one who came a lot and every once in a while Rube Grossman. The only socializing my dad did at our house was when he took a writing class, and he invited classmates to come over with their wives every Fourth of July and we’d have a party. Oh, Irwin Hasen, yeah, he visited a little. My dad needed space to be creative, and he didn’t surround himself with a lot of people. He loved creative people and loved spending time with them, but he didn’t have them over too much because a lot of them were very neurotic. He had trouble dealing with neurotic people. [laughter] No, he really did. He didn’t forgive people for a whole lot of stuff… he was very critical. Not critical to them, but he’d just never have them back! [laughs] CBA: So you knew Irwin Hasen? Merrily: Oh, yeah, I knew him very well. My dad was pretty close with Irwin. Irwin came to the house a lot. He was about four feet tall, a little younger than

my dad maybe, and he used to date these girls who were 18 and eight feet tall! [laughter] My dad would call them “Mutt and Jeff.” [laughs] CBA: I spoke with Irwin, and he mentioned he thought your father kind of distanced himself from Irwin after Irwin got the comic strip Dondi. Merrily: Irwin said that? CBA: Yeah. Merrily: Well, I don’t think it had anything to do with Dondi. It was circumstantial. My dad distanced himself from a lot of people when he thought they were neurotic and they irritated him. He got tired of Irwin for something, I don’t know. I remember Irwin came to the house one day, and I poked myself in the eye by mistake. I was sitting in his lap, and he said, “God punished you.” [laughter] That hurt my feelings and I told my dad, and that kind of pissed him off. I don’t remember seeing him after that. It might have had something to do with that. I don’t think it had anything to do with Dondi. CBA: Do you think that your father would have liked to continue with The Three Mouseketeers rather than work on Sugar & Spike? Merrily: I think whatever he was doing, he liked to do. I think he really liked The Three Mousketeers, and he might’ve liked it more. I saw more of it, and he talked to me more about it than he did Sugar & Spike. I think he was disappointed when he said, “Well, Sugar & Spike’s a hit and now that’s what I have to do and can’t do the other.” I think he was a little bit disappointed in that. I don’t want to say he liked Mousketeers more, because he enjoyed doing Sugar & Spike, but I really think that he drew from his childhood in The Three Mouseketeers, with his buddies and everything. I think it was easier for him to do than the kids, because we grew up and he ran out of kids. He’d always have something to do with The Three Mouseketeers. I mean, that was easy for him. I know he loved it, and he was sad when he couldn’t do it anymore, and he might’ve liked it more—I don’t really know. CBA: Did your father talk about his non-Three Mouseketeers funny animal work? Merrily: I saw some of it, but no, I don’t remember too much about the funny stuff. Yeah, he talked about it, and he was proud of it, and he loved that dog—Dizzy Dog and Doggy Doodles. He loved all those, but I don’t remember too much about them, but he enjoyed doing them. CBA: There was a Dizzy Dog story from the 1950s [reprinted in The Best of DC (Funny Stuff) digest #43, 1983] which was signed “Sheldon-Merrily Mayer.” Do you remember how you helped with this story? Merrily: Was that the one with the “Ketchup Genie”? CBA: Yeah, that’s the one. Merrily: My dad said, “Hey, do you want to help me write a story?” I think I was being a smart aleck and I said, “Write about ketchup!” [laughter] I really didn’t care! I was being a brat! [laughs] And so he wrote this wonderful story about a genie in a ketchup bottle! It was so cute. And I deserved absolutely no credit for that, because I was just being a brat. So that’s what happened. I remember thinking, “Now that wasn’t very nice” and I really did try for about two seconds to come up with something he could use. But he was bright. I mean, he didn’t really need me to do that. Whatever you said to him he would turn into something funny! He had an incredible sense of the ridiculous. CBA: Do you remember how your dad reacted to you being a “brat”? Merrily: He was kind of like that himself—he was very sarcastic. If you watch the old Dick Van Dyke Show, the dialogue between Alan Brady and his brother-in-law that he doesn’t like, Mel Cooley. Well, there’s a lot of sarcasm and satire in that. That’s the way my dad would communicate with people. For example, Mel would always be like, “Alan, can I help you? What is it, Mr. Brady?” One day Alan had gotten into a sneezing, coughing fit and Mel says, “Can I get you a glass of water?” And Brady says, [angrily] “No! Get me a glass of dust!” [laughter] Instead of saying, “No thanks, I don’t need water.” That’s the way Jewish people in New York in my—and my dad’s—era communicated. That’s what I grew up around, so I tended to be a little sarcastic. Not only just to be a brat, but because my dad would laugh at people that were funny. And half of me wanted him COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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to like me, so I acted stupid so I would fit into all the rest, so he’d laugh and enjoy that with me. [laughs] I had to be a goody-two-shoes for my mom and be funny for him. It was weird! [laughter] CBA: Did your dad mention meeting any of his fellow cartoonists at DC, such as Jim Davis who drew the Fox and the Crow comic? Merrily: Now, I do remember Fox and the Crow. I remember my dad saying… when someone took advantage of my brother, my dad would say, “He Fox and Crow’ed you!” But I don’t remember Jim Davis. [laughs] I remember reading it and my dad talking about it, but I don’t remember the names (I’m ashamed to admit) of who created it. CBA: Did your father read any non-DC humor comics? Merrily: I’m not sure what he read, but I know he was impressed with Charlie Brown [Peanuts]. And remember he could draw anything that anyone else drew. But he could never do Charlie Brown. He never could figure it out. I remember him saying, “I don’t know how he does it! It’s so simple—it looks like a circle— but I can’t do it like he does!” CBA: So he never really checked out the competition, as far as other comic books were concerned? Merrily: I don’t think so, not that I know of. CBA: Was your dad pretty excited about Sugar & Spike being a hit? Merrily: Oh, he was proud. Yeah, he was. He seemed to enjoy The Mouseketeers a little bit more, now that I think of it. He really got into that. But he was happy doing Sugar & Spike, and he was very proud that it was a hit. He enjoyed being the celebrity when my friends came over and talked to him. He loved that. CBA: Before Sugar & Spike was published, did your father tell you he was working on a comic book based upon you and your brother?

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Merrily: No, I don’t remember that he did. All of a sudden, it just appeared on his drawing board, and he was telling me about it, and he was very proud of it. “What do you think? Isn’t this cute? What do you think of this? What do you think of that?” And for some reason, I didn’t like being in the studio, because I always got yelled at. I’d touch something and tick him off somehow, so I really didn’t want to be in there, and so I said, “Yeah, that’s great, dad,” [laughter] and I’d leave. If you turned around and breathed on something, you never knew what you were going to get yelled at, and I just didn’t really want to be in there. He really didn’t say anything about the comic being based on us. But I did get the idea it was about us, even though it was called Sugar & Spike, and I remember being really offended that our names

Above: The tiny titans meet. Sugar and Spike’s first encounter from S&S #1. ©2000 DC Comics. Below: Both in the early 1960s and in the early 1980s, Shelly attempted to break into the syndicated newspaper strip market by adapting S&S. Here’s the opening strip to his 1980s version. Courtesy of Bill Alger. Art ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Characters ©2000 DC Comics.

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Left and opposite right: 14 daily strip samples from Shelly’s unsuccessful 1980s’ bid to adapt Sugar & Spike as a daily newspaper comic strip. Shelly completed five weeks worth of dailies but this received no bites from the syndicates. We’re hoping to print these—and many other photos and art, if there’s an interest in an entire book devoted to Shelly. Art ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Characters ©2000 DC Comics.

weren’t in it, I would’ve been much more thrilled if our names had been in it. He never called me “Sugar” and that’s probably why I wasn’t thrilled. I was impressed by his concepts about babies—even though it was just a comic book. I’m sure when any psychologist or anybody else reads it they would have to admit that he had insight into how children act. I remember people saying, “Oh, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about!” But now they realize that he did. He was selfeducated. He didn’t go to graduate school for psychology or anything. He figured it out on his own. A lot of things about babies’ early communication that took psychologists a while to figure out. I’m sure people benefited from it. I know I did. Besides, they’re funny! CBA: Your father said in an interview that he was asked by DC to compete with the rash of Dennis the Menace imitations that were flooding the market. “I resisted all suggestions that it be another Dennis imitation. I remember saying, ‘When Ketcham dreamed up Dennis, he looked around him and found what he was looking for in his own kid. To that degree only, I will imitate Ketcham… I too will look around me and see what I come up with.’” Do you know if he considered Dennis to be much of an influence on Sugar & Spike? Merrily: That’s the first I’ve heard of him saying anything about it. I don’t know that he was influenced by Dennis. If DC asked him to do something similar to Dennis the Menace, maybe since Ketcham looked at his kids, then my dad looked at his own, because looking at movies of my brother and I before we could talk is how Sugar & Spike came about. CBA: Yeah, he said that... “My kids were already entering their teens so I had to look elsewhere.” He said he couldn’t come up with any ideas until he took a look at the home movie.... Merrily: The movies of us, yeah, I have those! CBA: Did he discuss watching you and Lanney in the home movie and coming up with the concept for Sugar & Spike? Merrily: Yes, and this is the first I’ve heard that it had something to do with Dennis the Menace. I remember I had a Dennis the Menace doll, and he didn’t really like it. [laughter] I wanted one and he didn’t want me to buy one, so I remember that. There was a little rubber doll. It wasn’t that cute and it didn’t look like Dennis the Menace really. So one day on my birthday, I came home and there was one hanging from the mailbox. It was in a box and I opened it up and I said, “Oh wow, a Dennis the Menace doll! Where did it come from?” My mom said, “I don’t know. Someone hung it on the mailbox.” I was so pissed because I thought, “My God! If I’d stayed home, I would’ve known who gave me this!” I was so sad and my mom took me in my room and shut the door. She said, “I gave it to you. Be quiet. I just didn’t want dad to know.” [laughter] “Don’t say anything!” So I could never tell my dad where that stupid doll came from. I don’t know if he didn’t like Dennis the Menace because he didn’t want to be reminded of how he was asked to imitate something. I don’t know. But I do remember he didn’t like that doll and didn’t want me to have it. [laughs] CBA: I noticed Spike has overalls, like Dennis. Merrily: Well, I’ll tell you right now, my dad did not like to imitate things. He considered that stealing. If he saw something cute, he’d draw it. Maybe he was forced to do something like that when he came up with Sugar & Spike. As cute as Dennis the Menace was, Sugar & Spike was nothing like it, really. If Spike looked like Dennis the Menace, it was either because he was asked to do that. Or because my brother had overalls that looked like that, that were always unbuttoned and falling apart. Those clothes that Sugar and Spike have on are drawings of the way we were pretty much dressed. Yeah, my slip was always showing, and my brother wore overalls (and I did, too). CBA: Did you wear a ribbon and have blonde hair like Sugar? Merrily: Yes, my mother always put a ribbon in my hair. It was very important in those days to put ribbons in little girls’ hair. My hair 24-B

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was never messy like that. I did not look like Sugar that way. My hair was always braided neatly, but it was very blonde. You’ll see that in the pictures, they’re black-&-white, but you can see how blonde my hair was. CBA: And Lanney’s hair was red like Spike’s? Merrily: His hair was a little darker. It was very light brown—dark blonde… dishwater blonde. It wasn’t red. My mother had red hair and maybe he made Spike’s hair red so he wouldn’t look like Dennis. I really don’t know. CBA: Sugar and Spike were often consigned to sitting in the corner as punishment. I’m assuming that this is something you and Lanney also experienced? Merrily: I don’t remember ever having to sit in the corner, or stand in the corner, I don’t know where that came from. I think some of the people that we babysat for did that. I don’t remember, I don’t know where that came from. My parents didn’t do that. They were very creative with their punishment, and they were very careful. Dad didn’t want to ruin us, and he was very careful of what he did and didn’t do. They were very into progressive education for children, and letting them be autonomous. Although he didn’t really allow us to be autonomous, he thought we should be. [laughs] So he was careful not to… he didn’t want to damage us like that, so he never did that. And he didn’t smack our hands when we did something wrong, either. He would yell and scream a lot, you’d have to listen to him for an hour-and-a-half. [laughter] CBA: Were the characters’ personalities at all based on your own? Merrily: Oh, very much, yeah. I was older than my brother, and I was an instigator. [laughter] I was Sugar and my brother was the one who was always getting into trouble for everything I did. In those days it was unusual for the woman to be the leader. But what you have to understand is, I was older. So, naturally, the younger kid followed the older kid. I remember thinking my brother was very stupid, and that’s very sad that I felt that when I was little. I remember my mother said, “He adored you! He just thought you were wonderful!” I was looking at one picture of my brother where he looked at me like that, and I was looking at him like, “You piece of garbage!” [laughter] That’s so sad. Well, because he was a little kid, and he got into things! My parents set us up for that, too, not to get along. I mean, they did! “Ah, he’s being stupid, don’t…” they separated us, they totally separated us. We weren’t allowed to do anything together. My dad had bought my brother a typewriter, and mine hadn’t come yet. We were grown up, in high school, and I had typing homework. My brother said I could use his typewriter to do my homework, and my dad wouldn’t let me use it! He wanted to buy me my own, and we both thought that was ridiculous. He said, “Well, my brother used to break everything of mine, so you’re going to have your own.” Well, his brother was 11 years younger than him, and we weren’t [11 years apart in age]. He had issues; my dad definitely had issues. Then, later on, when we grew up, he would base it on the neighbors’ kids. There was a kid across the street he’d put in. Anyone he saw. He’d wander around the neighborhood, watching things kids did, and write about that. [laughter] He was afraid to get things from the TV. He didn’t want to steal things. Then he wanted me to bring my daughter around because he wanted to write about her. And then later on Sugar became some of the things that our neighbors and the people that my friends babysat for did. I don’t know why he stopped doing Sugar & Spike. I never did find that out. I don’t know if he was running out of things to do, because all the kids around him were growing up, or if DC decided to stop the whole thing. CBA: Well, from what I understand, his eyes were failing. Merrily: Yeah. That’s true, too. Yeah, they were doing very badly, but he didn’t stop drawing for a living. So that couldn’t have been it. CBA: Supposedly, that’s the main reason he stopped drawing Sugar & Spike, but I wonder if sales were falling in the early ’70s. Merrily: That sounds closer to the real reason because he never stopped drawing, he drew right up until the last day of his life. He drew constantly. He drew when he was on the phone. You know how people draw little circles and doodles? He would do funny stuff, constantly! He drew right up to the end. But yeah, his eyes were failing. Jan. 2001

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CBA: I thought that for a short while in the 1970s he couldn’t see well enough to continue drawing. Merrily: He had cataracts and in those days, they took the whole lens out. He never could see well after that. They took the lens out and they gave him these thick glasses. Now… I was almost blind, too, but they put a lens in my eye. They didn’t do that for him. Now they do an inter-ocular lens. I’m now an android [laughter], but they didn’t do that for him. I remember he had these really thick glasses after the operation. He couldn’t see very well, but he did draw stuff. CBA: Was he disappointed when Sugar & Spike was cancelled? Merrily: I don’t remember, but when his eyes went, he wasn’t happy. And he was practicing. He’d shut his eyes and practiced drawing in case he went blind. He would draw with his eyes shut. And he’d draw these incredible things with his eyes closed! [laughter] He said, “It only works if I don’t take my pencil off the paper.” So, he was practicing. He was ready to go blind and he wanted to make sure he could still draw. CBA: I read that he was starting to go blind so he stopped drawing Sugar & Spike. Then a year or two later, he had the operation and started drawing comics again. Merrily: But it made it hard, though. He could never really see well the way they did his eyes. He had a very hard time after that. CBA: It has been reported that your father didn’t want anyone else working on Sugar & Spike. Did he ever mention this to you? Merrily: I don’t know. I never heard that. But if someone told me that, I would believe it, because The Three Mouseketeers book was killed when he wasn’t on it. I mean, it didn’t do well. I know he would get very upset at the way they would ink things and the colors they would choose. “Those idiots!” [laughs] I do believe that. Because the Sugar & Spike book was his baby and I don’t think he wanted it bastardized. I mean, he really loved it and wanted it done right—the way he thought it should be. And he didn’t think anyone else could do it. When it was done, it was done. He didn’t want it to die because it wasn’t as good. If he had to stop, that would be that.

CBA: Did you read Sugar & Spike when each issue came out? Merrily: I did. Not religiously. Not every single one, but I read some of it, because he’d ask me to, and it was very cute. My dad and I didn’t really become friends until, I don’t know, very recently, actually… maybe within two or three years before his death. After I started college he had an easier time relating to me as an adult. I was studying history and asked him questions and he could answer all of them. He was a history buff, so he appreciated the classes I was taking. Then, we had something in common, and prior to that, we didn’t. I mean, we didn’t like the same kind of music, didn’t have anything in common, really, except that we were related! So when I started studying history, we talked about it. When I told him something he already knew, he was very impressed, “Oh, wow, you know that?” [laughs] That was the basis for our friendship. I apologized for calling him one day, I was doing a paper and needed to know something, and called him up and said, “I’m really sorry,” because I remembered how he was about his time being invaded, and he said, “No, that’s fine! Whenever you have a question about history, you should call me up and ask me. As a matter of fact, tell your whole class they should call me, too!” [laughs] Not that they really could, but they probably needed to… [laughs] If you want the truth, call Sheldon Mayer! [laughs] CBA: What did your friends think of your dad’s occupation? Merrily: There were three of my very good friends in high school who were big fans of S&S and collected all the issues. I remember one day when I was walking home from school seeing a friend of mine walking away from the street I lived on. She didn’t live anywhere near our house. I at first thought she came to visit me and was leaving because I wasn’t home. I invited her back. She informed me that she had interviewed my dad for the school newspaper and was finished and was now leaving. That was someone I, at the time, considered to be one of my very closest friends, but now, had completely no interest in spending time with me. She came to see my dad, saw him, and left. I was proud, but at the same time crushed. That happened more often as I got older. There’d be guys I had gone COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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out with for a period of time that when we, for whatever the reason, stopped seeing each other, would still come over and had a similar disinterest in seeing me. They just wanted to “hang” with my dad. CBA: How did he deal with his fans when they contacted him? Merrily: He loved it! He paid somebody—this kid named Chris Wood to answer his fan mail. My dad told him to let him know if somebody wanted to meet him or had anything really interesting to say. So he’d answer those. He would also dedicate stories to people. Sometimes he’d write back or call them. If they wanted to meet him, and they seemed interesting, he would meet them. CBA: Did fans ever come by the house? Merrily: Not people he didn’t already know. He’d go into town and meet somewhere (no matter where they lived). He had one I’ll never forget: Nell Rose Cottal, a girl he drove to see with her mother and brother. They met and had lunch together. They didn’t come to the house. He’d go visit them. He talked about her a lot. He loved the fact that she loved his work. CBA: Did many things that happened to you in real life find their way into your father’s stories? Merrily: I do remember one particular day (I must have been about 14) when a friend of mine was telling my dad about a little girl she had babysat for. The little girl was about a year-and-a-half old and when she had done something wrong, her mother would slap her hand. This one day she made a mistake and then went to her mother with her hand out for her to smack. I remember my dad having been very touched by that, and in at least one issue, he had Sugar do that. I remember the incident that sparked my Dad to do the cover for Sugar & Spike #4. My brother had gotten into the jelly (he was about four or five) and got some on his face and hands. My mother was a little annoyed at him, and he said, “How’d you know it was me, you weren’t even in the room? Do you have eyes in the back of your head?” (My mother was just ticked off because he had gotten jelly everywhere, and then was rude about it.) My dad, in his true comedic form, just put it into his next issue. He considered himself sort of a psychologist; he loved talking to people about philosophy. People would tell him their troubles, and he’d give them advice. They would call, and he became a philosopher over the phone, he had this whole following of people. He’d call them his “patients” and he’d say, “My quote-unquote patients,” and he loved that! CBA: Is that why he grew the beard—to look like Freud? Merrily: I don’t know why he grew the beard, I don’t really know. Oh, wait a minute, yes, I do! I think he said he didn’t like his chin— he thought he had a weak chin—and he grew a beard so it would stick out more. [laughs] So he didn’t grow the beard for an image. He just wanted to have his face be a bit more forward. I thought he had a nice face, but he thought that’s what he needed. It didn’t have anything to do with wanting to be a psychologist. [laughs] CBA: So, when he was talking with people on the phone, did he use their stories in his comics? Merrily: Well, it’d depend what the situation was. If it was private, no. If it was funny and not inappropriate to print—possibly. He really did have a sense of fairness. CBA: Did you know Whitney Ellsworth? Merrily: I never met him. I think my dad did, though. He used to call him “Whit.” CBA: He was a long-time editor of a lot of Sheldon’s books, including the early Sugar & Spikes. Merrily: Oh, really? I didn’t know that. I saw his name as something to do with the Superman show on TV in the ’50s. I watched that, and I remember Whit Ellsworth’s name was on there, but I didn’t know in what capacity he, if at all, worked with my dad. CBA: Did he ever mention having any troubles with the editors on his books? Merrily: No, the only thing he ever complained about was the colorists. He often didn’t like the way it was colored after he sent it in. “Those idiots, they didn’t make this contrast enough!” He never complained about anything else, the writing or the editors, anything as much as the person who did the coloring. If something covered up one of his details, that’d upset him. He did his own inking, so he wouldn’t have to worry about that, but the coloring was done after Jan. 2001

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Above: A rare example of S&S merchandising, Marx Toys produced this ’60s filmstrip for its Flashy Flickers projector, reprinting frames from Sugar & Spike #41. Courtesy of Bill Alger. Characters ©2000 DC Comics. 27-B

Above: Shelly produced a series of strips for McDonald’s restaurants in the early ’80s. Art ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Characters ©2000 McDonald’s Corp. Below: You can dress ’em up… S&S fans’ eyebrows were raised when the Arlene Klasky, Gabor Csupo, and Paul Germaincreated Rugrats TV series appeared on Nickelodeon, a show featuring tots talkin’ baby gibberish. ©2000 Viacom International, Inc.

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he sent it in. CBA: I’ve noticed that on a lot of his original art he’d put detailed instructions for the colorist. Merrily: Oh, yes! Absolutely! He did that, because it was very important to him. He felt these guys just went in, did their job, got paid and went home. He was a stickler for detail. It meant something to him. When you color over something, you lose some of the detail. Like, if you’re going to have spaghetti on a plate and on a tablecloth and the spaghetti was red. You wouldn’t have a red plate and a red tablecloth, because they wouldn’t know what it was. They would do stupid things like that, and it would upset him. [laughter] That’s the kind of thing that would bother him that they wouldn’t notice. CBA: Did you read any other comics besides your dad’s? Merrily: Oh, yeah, I did. I had a subscription to Little Lulu. I loved Little Lulu. That was my favorite comic book! Little Lulu would baby-sit for Alvin and tell him little witch stories. I loved those!

They were my favorite. I read Dennis the Menace, and when I got older, Archie and Millie the Model. I had subscriptions to Little Lulu and Millie the Model. I used to get so excited when my mom would come upstairs with them. I paid for them with my allowance. I also religiously read Archie and Jughead. CBA: What did your dad think about these comics? Merrily: He wasn’t thrilled. He didn’t want me to have those in the house. He felt it was disrespectful to DC. And we should only have DC comics, because they were paying his salary. We owed DC. Without DC, I wouldn’t have my glasses, and the swimming pool, and on and on. We should be grateful! He was pretty strong about that, but I read other comics anyway. CBA: But you didn’t read any DC humor books? Merrily: No, I pretty much just read those three I told you about. Later I was forced to throw my comic books away and I was very sad. A suitcase full of them! My doctor said I was having trouble with my eyes because I was only reading comic books! My eyes were going. I wouldn’t go past a whole line in like a book because I was reading comic books. He thought it was very bad and I had to get rid of them. I was pissed! CBA: [laughs] Wow! Merrily: We had this neurotic doctor. This doctor liked my mother, he thought she was very bright, and she idolized him because he was a doctor. So whatever stupid thing he came up with, she would do. “The doctor said we have to do this or that!” [laughter] This guy was a neurotic idiot. An idiot! His face looked like a wrinkled prune, his mouth looked like an sphincter muscle. [laughter] I remember that. I hated going there! He’d say these stupid things, and my mom would take them as gospel. He ruined my whole life! [laughter] CBA: Especially having you throw out your comic books! [laughter] Merrily: Yeah! I think he was a quack. He was against comic books and that’s how my dad made his money. So they thought my whole life was just comic books because my dad was a cartoonist. And it wasn’t, really. It’s just that I had a suitcase filled with them, and when I had to go to that stupid doctor, I’d take them with me to read because we’d have to wait for an hour in his office and I’d be bored so I’d sit and read them. And he didn’t think I should. CBA: It seems really insulting to your dad to tell him that his career is destroying your eyesight. Merrily: I don’t know if he told other parents about that, I just know he told my mother that about me. I know my dad’s attitude about that, pretty much, was, “Hey, I couldn’t pay you if I didn’t do this.” [laughs] If anybody criticized comic books, that was his attitude, “Hey, this is my bread and butter. If you want to come to my house and eat my food, you’d better know this is how it’s paid for!” [laughter] I didn’t read much DC. If I couldn’t have my comic books, I wouldn’t read any. That was kind of bratty, I guess. CBA: But a kid shouldn’t be forced to read comics she doesn’t like. Merrily: Well, I wasn’t forced to, but he really would wish that I had read them. I was sort of rebellious. I didn’t want to read those comics. CBA: Did your dad ever draw people he knew into his stories? Merrily: There was one issue, I think it may have been in Scribbly, where he did an incredible caricature of someone he had known very well and who had been a fan. Thinking that the guy would get a kick out of having been put in a comic book, my dad gave him a copy. Someone said to him, “Hey, you could sue Shelly for that!” And the guy did. Sooooo, forever after that, my dad was very careful not to make a noticeable likeness of anyone, even with permission, after that incident. I always thought that it was too bad that happened because I think it took out some of the “spunk” of him and his desire to poke fun at some of the ridiculous things people did. And that was very much a part of what made him so incredibly funny. I can’t remember who the guy was. My dad was very pissed at him, thinking, “That isn’t necessary!” He drew wonderful cartoons. He put all his friends in the comics and they loved it. Then this happened and he never did it again. Never. CBA: Did the guy think it was an insulting caricature? Merrily: No, not at all. No, he loved it. I think some other guy COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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said, “Hey, you can sue him,” and he did! CBA: Would he have been suing your father or DC? Merrily: I think my dad. I’m not sure how that came down. If it came down to DC, I think my dad would still pay it, because he felt really bad. I know there was some kind of settlement, something happened that made him very, very careful after that. This, I think, was one of the reasons that, even though Sugar & Spike was initially patterned after my brother and me, instead of having it be Merrily & Lanney, he named them what he did. And had them be neighbors. He tended to be a little superstitious and considered things that happened to be omens. CBA: But he wasn’t afraid you were going to sue him or anything? Merrily: He was very paranoid. He was very superstitious. He never did that again. Another thing he was superstitious about, with Jewish people, when somebody dies, you’re supposed to name somebody after that person, but then he got the idea that if they were alive, it would be very bad to do that. Like, I named my daughter Michelle, so we could call her Shelley, because that was his nickname. I wouldn’t have done that, because I knew he was superstitious, but I was babysitting for a lady who had another baby, and she named it Shelley, after my dad. He was so touched by that. He thought that was really cool. So, I named Michelle that, so I could call her Shelley, and he was convinced he was having internal bleeding in his muscles because I’d done that. He thinks he had bad health, but he didn’t die because the name wasn’t Sheldon, and was only his nickname. But he was very convinced that he had health problems because I’d done that. He was very superstitious. It’s hard to say why he didn’t name the comic after us. I don’t think… I would hope that he would know that I’d never sue him for anything, but he wasn’t sure of anything. CBA: He told you that his sculpture of M.C. Gaines exploded the day before Gaines died. Could he have been afraid that if something happened in the comic book to the babies, that it would also happen to you and Lanney? Merrily: Very possibly. CBA: Do you know where the character Bernie the Brain came from? Merrily: I think I do. You know, somebody around here has a comic book shop, and that’s the first thing he asked me when he found out I was Shelly’s daughter. My dad had a very intelligent cousin that he had never met, who had died, very tragically, of spinal meningitis. He got to go in that kid’s room. The parents kept it like a shrine. He looked all around in that room and he said, “My god, this kid was a genius! Look at the things he did!” And I think Bernie the Brain was based on that cousin. CBA: The look of Bernie reminded me a little bit of someone from a Maurice Sendak book [Where the Wild Things Are]. Merrily: Oh. Well, I can bet that it isn’t the case, because he was very careful not to do that. I’m more than sure that he was influenced by his very brainy relative that died. He always had a smart person and there was always a dumb person like in The Mousketeers, and then Scribbly. Because that’s what his life was about! There were dumb people! There were stupid people who did dumb things that made him crazy! And then there was the smart person, the mentor, the helper person, the funny person. [laughter] And that’s pretty much what The Mousketeers were about. There was Fatsy, Patsy and Minus, and one of them was very dumb. I can’t remember which one, maybe it was Minus, who did stupid things. I don’t think it had anything to do with the Cinderella mice, although it might’ve. I think it had to do with his little childhood friends, the clubhouse and everything. CBA: And I guess you never crawled through a fence to get to a neighbor’s yard like Sugar and Spike were always doing? Merrily: Oh, we had a fence. I don’t remember being able to go over or under it. [laughs] They were Jan. 2001

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picket fences like that. I think dogs used to climb through and get away. And so he had the kids doing that… Oh, wait a minute! I know where that came from! Yes, I do! I think once he put the playpen upside-down on my brother when he was getting into something for a minute so he wouldn’t get hurt, and then I went and lifted it up and let him out. That’s where that came from. We used to help each other escape from the playpen. [laughter] A lot of what would be the fence was the playpen. I would always help him escape. We used to do that. [laughter] CBA: Sugar and Spikes parents’ faces weren’t shown for a period of time in the comics. Did your father ever discuss his reason for doing this? Merrily: I do remember him saying something about that. Remember Vargas in Playboy? CBA: Yes, and Esquire, too. Merrily: Vargas always drew these beautiful women. My father loved the way Vargas drew women and he appreciated people who did a good job drawing them. He said, “You know, when I draw women, I don’t do justice to them. I make them characters.” He didn’t really want to spend a whole lot of time not doing a good job drawing women, so he just did the legs—and he wanted to focus on the kids. (I hope I’m right on this.) CBA: But after a while he started showing the parent’s faces. Merrily: I’m not quite sure why he did that. Maybe he thought it was time to end the mystery and finally show them. I’m not sure. CBA: Do you think that telling stories without showing the parent’s complete bodies became limiting after a while? Merrily: Maybe, but also there’s some intrigue with making readers wait to see what they look like. He used to have just legs walking in and out of the room. He’d have Sugar and Spike and the cat and this and that—and legs with big shoes on them! [laughs] CBA: Your father put together a short Sugar & Spike animated cartoon. Was this in color or black-&-white? Merrily: It was in color, but it didn’t do justice to his talent. I don’t know when he did it. It was just something he tried to do. The cels didn’t match. The arms didn’t match the rest of the body on one

Above: By the late ’60s, Shelly decided to finally show the faces of his duo’s parents, though he previously depicted only their hands and feet. Top is Spike’s dad, below Sugar’s mom. Art ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Characters ©2000 DC Comics. Below: Shelly’s cover art to The Best of DC #68 digest featuring classic S&S tales. The artist/writer often used holidays as story backdrops. ©2000 DC Comics.

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Above: Shelly prepared a dummy for the 1971 aborted Sugar & Spike Pocket Treasury. Top is letter to DC publisher Carmine Infantino on the project. Above right is Shelly’s cover color comp, and above is Shelly’s cover art. Art ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Characters ©2000 DC Comics.

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particular character and there were other problems like that. CBA: What did you think about Rugrats? Merrily: I was sort of offended by them, really. I thought it was a swipe of Sugar & Spike. I would love for one of them to say, “Yeah, I love Sugar & Spike and I wanted to put it in a cartoon.” I’d love for someone to admit to me they were totally influenced by Sugar & Spike. It’s cute but the drawings are kind of grotesque. Tommy is a very sweet, loving, cute kid and they’re nice kids and the stories are pretty much like Sugar & Spike in some ways. Along with the whole premise of “Those grown-ups don’t understand us,” only babies understand other babies. I just think they could be cuter. I really don’t like Hey, Arnold! and all of those ugly cartoons. It really bothers me. My father worked very hard to make his look appealing. I’m sure Sugar & Spike inspired Rugrats and I’d love for somebody to say that! They waited until he died, and then they did it, it seems to me. I think somebody should give him credit for having introduced the concept that babies have their own language. CBA: Do you think your father would have liked Rugrats? Merrily: He wouldn’t have liked it. He called that limited animation. But then again, there’s a whole new way of thinking in cartoons. I think it started with Sesame Street. Those puppets were kind of weird looking. And maybe that’s a way of not having everything be pretty and cute. I love The Simpsons, though. I find it terribly funny. I was sort of taken aback at the way they looked at first, too. So maybe that’s just a new thing that I’m too old to appreciate. You can’t get uglier than Homer Simpson. But the show is riotously funny. It’s a really hip cartoon. CBA: I saw an old letter column in Sugar & Spike where your father mentioned that your mom made some prototype Sugar and Spike dolls. Merrily: Yeah, he made them out of rubber. He made a plaster cast, made a rubber mold, then he poured the rubber in, and she dressed them. I don’t know what happened to those. CBA: Do you think they still exist? Merrily: I think they disintegrated; they were rubbery. CBA: Were there ever photos made? Merrily: I think so. If I find anything like that I’ll let you know. CBA: That would be great. Did the dolls resemble the characters? Merrily: No, it was very hard to make them look right. They looked fat and dumpy and ugly. The reason why none of us ever made them is because they’d look like the Dennis the Menace doll. It was very hard to make them as cute as they looked in the comics. It was a travesty, basically. So we never did it again. He made them, and my mom made the clothes for them. They were kind of grotesque looking. They were! He wasn’t happy with them—none of us were. I’ve often wanted to make something like that, but never did because it was really hard to make them look as cute as they were on paper. CBA: In addition to drawing, your father also enjoyed sculpting. Merrily: Oh, yeah, he was good at that. He was so talented at sculpting and carving. He whittled horses, and fallen over boots that looked real, like they were leather. But they were wood. He used to do funny things, too. Like, he was whittling and his mother said, “You’re going to cut your fingers off!” So he whittled a finger, and then put red ink over it, and left it on the kitchen table, and said, “Ma, I’ve hurt my finger, I’ve got to get a Band-Aid,” and left it on the table. [laughter] CBA: How did his mom react to that? Merrily: Oh, well, she knew it was a joke. A lot of what he did, she wished he wouldn’t do. It’s like when you’ve got a cat, and they climb up the curtains, you don’t want to give the cat away, but you wish they weren’t climbing up the curtains. That’s how she felt about my dad. [laughter] “Oh God! He’s crazy, where did I get this kid from?” CBA: Do you have a favorite character that your father created? Merrily: I don’t have a favorite character he did, but there are certain things that he drew that were so funny. He’d do a caricature of somebody that did something silly, and that’s what I loved. When we were going somewhere and he would depict something stupid that happened, put it on paper and make you laugh. Those were my favorite things he did. His stories of Sugar & Spike were very, very cute, and I loved all of them, but my favorite things were when he’d COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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make fun of life on paper, and then just hand it to me. [laughs] CBA: In the 1970s, your dad wrote an over-sized comic book on the Old Testament. Merrily: He told me he did that. That was later on, and I had very little knowledge of it. I never really read it. He did Santa Claus and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, also. CBA: Was he fairly religious? Merrily: No, not at all. But he was very spiritual. He worried about things. He cared about bugs and trees… he cared about everything! He didn’t want little animals to get hurt. [laughter] I remember once, we had a swimming pool, and bugs used to get in there and drown, and it made him sad. So he made these little sailboats that would float around, and they’d climb up on it when they got in the water. Then they could dry off and fly away. CBA: Wow! [laughs] Merrily: Little boats with bugs, and he’d say, “Look! They’re stretching their wings, and they’re drying off, and they’re laying there to dry!” He thought that was so cool. [laughter] CBA: Sounds like a Three Mouseketeers story. Merrily: But it was real. He was a little kid in many ways. He cared about everything. CBA: He also did some writings and roughs for a proposed comic story on the life of Jesus. Since he was Jewish, how did he reconcile this with his upbringing? Merrily: Well, my mom was hammering him to become a Christian, so I don’t know, maybe he did that for her. He really didn’t want to fall from grace with her. I don’t even know if it was his idea, or if someone asked him to do it. Or maybe he did it so he could go to heaven with my mother. She was a hellfire-&-brimstone type— “You’re going to go to hell!” I had as little do to with it as I could, because I didn’t feel it was him. I had a hard time with it, because I knew how Jewish he was, and how un-Jewish she was, and I thought she was ripping something away from him. It wasn’t the kind of thing where she had this wonderful thing going for herself and she wanted to share it. It was more like, “You’re going to go to hell!” [laughter] “And I want to make sure I don’t, so I have to bug you!” CBA: I noticed in Sugar & Spike that he did a lot of Christmas issues. I was wondering if he felt comfortable doing this. Merrily: You have to understand two things about him: One was his family was very poor, and they lived in a Gentile neighborhood. He noticed other people had Christmas trees and he thought that was so cool. Christmas became very important to him when he made money and could celebrate it. When we were little, he had a tree and celebrated Christmas and it was very important because he couldn’t do it as a kid. When he was younger, they didn’t do his bar mitzvah properly, and he was hurt by that. It was a half-assed thing. So he didn’t get into the Jewish thing. He kind of stayed away from it. He didn’t like a lot of things Christian people did, but Christmas—he loved Christmas. And he did the Christmas issues. I noticed that in Rugrats, they do Hanukkah. I don’t know why he didn’t do both, but he didn’t. He loved Christmas, and we had a Christmas tree, and we did Christmas, and we didn’t do Hanukkah. I do it for my children, but he didn’t. As a matter of fact, my uncle’s wife started reading me things about Judaism and got me into it and my dad was furious! He did not want them to do that, and he wouldn’t let me see her again. I never did find out why. Maybe it was out of respect for my mother. He was very spiritual, but he didn’t like the way people dealt with religion, and he just refused to do it. CBA: It seems like he loved a lot of other holidays, too. Merrily: Yeah, he loved holidays, they were very important to him. He would have celebrated May Day, if he could find a maypole. On Washington’s birthday, he got those little cherry rolls and made them look like logs on Washington’s Birthday—a cherry tree. Yeah, he was big on holidays. CBA: Many Sugar & Spike issues have Halloween stories. Merrily: Oh, Halloween! My dad loved Halloween! It gave him an opportunity to be as ridiculous as he wanted to be without getting in trouble for it. [laughter] Yeah, he did crazy things! We never bought costumes, he didn’t believe in that. He would make all the costumes. He and my mom made every costume we ever had. He loved to dress us up on Halloween and go to parties. He loved parties! My Jan. 2001

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dad was a party freak. They didn’t drink, but he loved to go and talk to people and sing and play music and be ridiculous. CBA: He played the guitar, didn’t he? Merrily: Oh, yeah… guitar, banjo, accordion, ukulele, and he’d sing. Yeah, and he’d make up these funny, crazy songs. He did a comedy routine with his guitar, you know? [laughs] I wish there were video cameras then, I would’ve taped them. It would be fun to watch. He always was the life of the party and was always thinking something absolutely ridiculously funny to say. He was always doing something crazy. My mom and dad used to roll their own cigarettes. I don’t know why they did that—to save money, I don’t know—anyway, they had this great big rolling machine, and a cigarette would come out maybe 19 or 20 inches long, and you’d cut them. One day, there was a cigarette sitting in that machine, and we had company. So my dad went and got it out and said, “My doctor told my wife to cut down to one cigarette a day,” So he brings out this cigarette that’s 20 inches long [laughs] and he gives it to her! [laughter] That’s the kind of thing he would do, he was so funny. He played a guitar and a banjo, and he’d

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sing funny songs. He would make up lyrics as he went along. He would just sit somewhere and sing things like “I’ve got tears between my toes, from standing on my nose, and crying my eyes out over you!” or something like that. [laughter] Just silly stuff like that. He’d just do things, and it was all impromptu. He didn’t have a script and I don’t remember all of it. He was just funny all the time, really. CBA: Did your dad have an office at DC where he worked, or did he draw at home? Merrily: When we lived in New York City, he pretty much went to his office on Lexington Avenue every day. In 1948, he bought a house in Rye, New York (a little town in Westchester County) and moved us all there. He turned what was—at the time he bought the house—a separate little apartment (entranced through our kitchen) into a studio which was cantilevered over our garage. He did most of his work from there. CBA: Can you describe your dad’s daily work routine? Merrily: Yeah, he’d get up early in the morning. He loved to write before the daylight. He loved to write in the dark, in the morning, when no one was around. Don’t forget, he got yelled at a lot when he was a kid, so he liked it when no one was around. And when everyone was asleep is when he was most creative. He’d get up early in the morning and write, and then he’d eat. And he’d go for a walk to get ideas and then he’d get back and draw, write. He’d eat dinner with my mom, and then go back to the studio and draw until about eleven o’clock. Then he’d come over and watch TV, and then they’d go to bed. He did have a very definite routine. He’d get up and go for walks, and then he’d make something to eat in the studio. And then he’d write and draw and eat and go for another walk. Part of that walk was

for exercise, he wanted to keep his weight down. He felt if you walked everyday, it would help you keep in shape. That was very important to him. Then he’d work very late. He’d come home to eat, but then he’d go at about six o’clock. See, he had his own studio— and then he’d go back to his studio to write, and then come back at about nine or ten or eleven o’clock and watch TV with my mom. They’d watch certain shows every week. One was L.A. Law and they’d watch it together. So he worked a lot. He was constantly working. He would take Sunday off to go have breakfast with his friends at a local diner with my mom. And then work in the garage to make things. Maybe Saturday, too, I don’t remember. But I remember he didn’t work on Sunday. He took one day for himself and he’d go to the beach or something. I remember something he used to like to do. He’d say, “Let’s get lost!” We had this 1937 Plymouth with a rumble seat in it. He’d take me in it, by myself, and say, “Okay, where do I go?” If I said, “Make a right turn,” he’d take a right turn, go straight, and we’d go where we’d never been. We did that on Saturdays, all day long we’d go for a ride, and then we’d get something to eat and drink, and go to the airport and watch the planes. He loved doing that! We had no particular plan, just drive and see where we wound up and stop to do what there was to do there—walk, eat, watch planes, etc. That was his Saturday and Sunday, he’d take half of the family, and that’s what he would do. That was his routine. CBA: Your father started doing the Sugar & Spike stories in the 1980s for the international market. Do you remember when he worked on those? Merrily: I don’t know too much about that. I remember once when I was living in New York at some point in the ’60s and I happened to notice Sugar & Spike at a newsstand in Spanish. And I remember my grandmother saying, “My son does this!” The guy went, “Yeah, okay lady, you’re in my way. Are you gonna buy that?” [laughter] I don’t know about the European comics. I just remembered seeing one in Spanish at a newsstand, and being tickled by it, I bought it and showed it to him and he said, “Yeah, they’ve got my stuff everywhere!” CBA: Your dad also worked on a Sugar & Spike comic strip that was never syndicated. Merrily: You know, they never did get it syndicated and I know he was a little disappointed about that. CBA: Do you remember what years he worked on those? Merrily: I want to say ’60 and ’61, but I’m not sure. Somewhere in the ’60s, very early. I remember he felt that it would be nice if it was syndicated. “These guys, when they get stuff syndicated, they’re fixed for life!” I remember he felt that. There was a lot of disappointment in not getting it in the papers. I don’t know what the deal was, but it never made it. CBA: Was that one of his dreams to be a syndicated cartoonist? Merrily: I think so. I think he would have liked that. I get the feeling that he would have. CBA: He also worked on some children’s books that were never produced. Merrily: I know he worked on them and I know he wanted them published. I don’t know what happened. Though I know he wanted to be remembered. I don’t remember in what capacity, but I remember him saying, “Don’t let people forget me.” [laughter] He dated everything and signed it, so there would be a record of when it was done. I do want to work on something about him. I’m not sure what or when, but… CBA: I think there are a lot of people who are fans of his work, so.... Merrily: Oh, yeah! Really, fans loved him! People would come up to me and say, “Do you remember the issue where…” or “Where does this come from?” I don’t even remember reading it, or know anything! But they remember. They quote from issues! They remember what issue it was, what page it was on… “Do you remember on page blah, blah, blah, where he said blah, blah, blah?” [laughter] Yeah, he’s got die-hard fans! CBA: Do you think he ever regretted his exclusive working relationship with DC? Merrily: Oh, I think he did. I don’t want to say that, but I think he did. I think there were times he wanted to go do other things but he COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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couldn’t. I think so. But he didn’t regret it enough to leave. I think if it wasn’t for capitalism, he might not have stayed. You know what I mean? He had to make a living, didn’t want to do something he hated, and I think he felt loyal to them. CBA: Basically he really liked working with them, but he had other dreams that he never achieved? Merrily: Yeah, he had dreams of doing other things that he would have liked to have done that he couldn’t get to. Yeah. I don’t know what they were, but there were things he wanted to do differently. CBA: So you have no idea what else he would have wanted to do in his career? Merrily: I don’t. He never complained about anything like that. He’d never say, “I wish I could do this or that,” because he never wanted us to feel guilty about being in his life. That it was because of us, that he had a wife and kids, that he didn’t do these things. I remember him telling me about a time when he went to a doctor and his blood test got mixed up with a person that had terminal cancer. He was told that he had six months to live. This was back when I was really little, maybe even before I was born, I don’t know. Anyway, he didn’t tell anybody about his supposed cancer. He said, “I feel fine,” and the doctor replied, “Well, you’re okay as long as you feel fine. And we don’t have to do anything until you start to feel sick. You’ll feel fine for a while. Just live.” He was waiting to feel sick and he never did. Then it turns out the guy made a mistake. So my dad thought he was going to die for a while and never said a word to anybody. That made me realize if there was anything really wrong with him, I’d never know about it. CBA: Do you think your father ever wished he owned the rights to Sugar & Spike and Scribbly? Merrily: I’m sure he did. I’d bet my life he did. I know he did wish he could just get it published and have that be his. Absolutely. He didn’t think he could afford to do that, and maybe because he had kids, he didn’t want to go out on a limb, and so he gave it to them. That way he’s working for them, and he’s not gonna starve. He was very, very glad to have the opportunity to do what he loved doing. They were good to all of us. When my parents were very, very sick, DC was good to them. They really were. He didn’t have any regrets for working for DC. He would’ve loved to have owned the stuff, but he was a practical person and in the end it paid off for him and them. CBA: What careers did you and Lanney end up with? Do you think that your father’s occupation influenced yours in any way? Merrily: I wound up working for a dentist, got married and raised five kids before getting a bachelor’s degree focusing on sociology, psychology, and journalism (from the Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington). At present time, I’m freelance writing, and will be involved in social work for the state of Washington. My brother Lanney—I’m not even sure about all of the interesting things he’s involved with. You’d have to ask him. I do know that he has a Ph.D. in education and is involved in teaching and counseling on some level or another. But what and for whom, I’m not exactly sure. Much like our dad, he is a real humanitarian and very dedicated to his pursuits. CBA: Was your father ill for a while before he passed away? Merrily: Yeah, he was in a wheelchair. He was fighting cancer for many years and he was okay for a while. Then my mom got very sick. She was terminally ill with lung cancer and he started losing his eyesight. My mom was in bed all the time. He made sure she had round-the-clock nurses and everything. Then he decided to just slip away. He asked my daughter,”Do you need me anymore? Do you mind if I just go?” She said, “Yeah, that’s fine. I’m fine.” And then he just died. Well, I wouldn’t have said that. I wasn’t done with him. CBA: He died right after...? Merrily: Right after that, yeah. He said, “I’ve done everything I wanted to do,” and that’s not really true. There was a lot he really wanted to do, but he was just too tired to do it. CBA: Could he still draw when he was sick? Merrily: I think so. He couldn’t see very well, but he was drawing right up until the end. CBA: How long did your mother live after your father passed away? Merrily: She started to get better for a while. And then I guess she Jan. 2001

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got scared. She didn’t know what to do without him, so she just died four months after he did. They were together for almost 50 years, actually. CBA: You said you started getting closer to your dad when you went to college. Merrily: Yeah. He didn’t have the opportunity to go to college. He just worked. He was selling cartoons when he was 11 years old. It’s like I achieved something that he didn’t. So instead of treating me like I was a dumb kid, he kind of looked up to me as someone who knew as much as he did. Which, of course, I never could. He was incredible. He was a self-made man, really. And he knew who he was. He was a free spirit and really had a good sense of right and wrong and who he was. He was amazing. But he just thought it was really awesome that I went to college. “Well, now I don’t have to worry about her,” and we kind of became friends. We got to be pretty close about two years before he died. I just wish I’d gotten to spend more time with him, but I think everybody wishes that. I really wish I had owned a video camera. I could’ve videotaped him telling all of his funny stories. It would be nice to have videos of him, because he was so funny. He was as good or better than anything you can watch on TV. When he told a story, he was really captivating. He was a very good storyteller. His timing was good, and he was very interesting. People loved him. He was very funny. CBA: Well, thank you for taking the time to speak with us. Merrily: Okay. I’m glad you called. I’m glad to be part of it. I’d love to help, because I think it’s nice that people still remember my father and his comics.

Left is his art to the cover of the first Rudolph Limited Collectors’ Edition (#C-20).

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CBA Interview

Shelly & Spike A Conversation with Lanney Mayer, Son of Sheldon Conducted by Bill Alger Transcribed by Jon B. Knutson I was able to contact Lanney Mayer a number of years ago when Robin Snyder (editor of the monthly newsletter The Comics) was kind enough to supply me with Lanney’s address. I wrote Lanney your average fawning fan letter concerning the impact his dad’s work had upon me and he responded with a wonderful letter and photocopies of an article he had written for Overstreet’s Gold and Silver magazine. At the time, I mulled over the possibility of someday interviewing him at length concerning his father, but went no further with it. After getting the go-ahead for this issue from Jon Cooke, I approached Lanney, who okayed the idea, and we conducted this interview over the phone on the morning of July 29, 2000. It was a pleasure speaking with Lanney, who I found to be friendly, intelligent and very frank with his opinions. He is justifiably proud of his father. My thanks go out to Lanney for providing us with these memories of his father and letting us get a glimpse into the creative process behind the genius of Sheldon Mayer. Lanney also copyedited the transcript.—Bill Alger.

Comic Book Artist: Thanks for speaking with me today. I wanted to start by asking about your dad’s childhood. Did he talk about this much? Lanney Mayer: What I recall is that his dad left home when my dad was about seven. Apparently, he was a fairly wellto-do guy in the shoe business. They had come out of Hungary, I think. That side of the family was leather-workers, and saddle-makers, and apparently quite well off. I don’t know how much you know about Judaism, but while that side of the family was certainly living in a village shtetl and was ghettoized, they were different from the socialistic mystics. The socialistic mystics wandered around, in some cases begging for money, and gave their life to religious experiences. I think my grandmother’s side of my family came from that. They were part of the Austria-Hungarian Polish conglomeration, and I’m not sure exactly what their ethnic roots are. The leather side of the family was the Greenbergers, and the other side was Grossmans. There was some tension between the two factions. The leather workers would say to the 34-B

socialistic mystics, “Why are you coming to our house begging for money? Go get a job!” [laughter] I would love to go back to Hungary and see if the village, Yedliva, still exists. I’m guessing they all went to Treblinka. It’s Hungary and early on in the Second World War it was pretty well devastated. Many of those villages were simply herded up and just vacated. When the leather workers came to this country, the use of the horse was in decline, so they got in the shoe business and apparently did quite well. That man—my dad’s dad— and his name is escaping me right now… CBA: Samuel? Lanney: Yeah, I believe that’s right. He kept watch over my dad from a distance, but I don’t think my dad saw him personally at all until my dad was fully-grown. And I think they only had two or three contacts over that period of time. I think that close to Sam’s death, probably when Sam was in his 50s or 60s, they had some contact. I don’t know a lot about that, except that it was important for my dad. I have no real knowledge of my dad’s life before his father left, except I have a picture of him as a two-year-old on a pony with his grandmother standing next to him. He looks remarkably like my fouryear-old today. I have three boys that are grown and I’ve started another family. I’ve got a six-year-old girl and a four-year-old boy, and the boy looks just like my dad. It’s almost reincarnation. [laughs] My dad was raised on the Lower East Side of New York City and moved once. I’m not sure how far up on the East Side they moved, but it was after my real grandfather left home. The things I remember most about my dad’s childhood have to do with his fondness for his grandmother. Grandma Grossman was his mother’s mother. She was the one that he found as a resource— from what I wasn’t able to articulate. I gather there was some tension in the family. His mother and her sister, Sadie Grossman, raised him essentially. Within four years, his mother married a butcher, Leo Mayer, and my dad took his name. And when my dad was 11 his younger brother Monroe was born. CBA: Was there any reason why his father didn’t have contact with Sheldon? Lanney: Well, I don’t think he wanted to interfere with the new home, once it was established. I think Jenny, in effect, drove him out of the house. But it’s always a three-sided coin, you know. CBA: How did your father relate to his younger brother Monroe? Lanney: Well, he was always the big brother. I think he took care of Monroe, and I think saw him through school and through law school. He’s successful today partly because my dad was a good big brother, who created a stable environment in which he could grow up. He was 11 years older and he was in effect not only a big brother, but in many respects a father. Although Leo was kind of a passive soul, but a good, nurturing soul, my dad was the breadwinner. CBA: Was your father very close with his mother? Lanney: Yes. As I knew her, she was a very kind lady. She was many-sided and I found her good company, and enjoyable, and she was something of a good resource for me. But I remember some tension, and I think a lot of my dad’s early years were lived under the kitchen table, drawing and playing, somewhat hiding out from the adults. I sensed that by the time he reached school, he was somewhat like my sister, a high-energy, creative soul. He had vision problems so he wasn’t able to get into the athletic side of things, which was often stickball and other games in the streets. He wasn’t able to do much of that because he didn’t get glasses until he was 12. So, I suspect that affected his social life in some measure, although he had a cadre of close friends through high school. Of course, there were COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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the city pressures, and the fighting—the kind of ghetto culture that all people pressed together experience. So, he hung out with his friends, but as I suspect because of his vision, the creative urges had to find an outlet outside of things social and athletics. My father was something of a problem at school, because while his teachers liked him, he was so high-energy, I think he was not an easy child to manage in school. My mother (who has her own perspectives on these things) said that an IQ test at some point in his early experience indicated he was a pretty bright kid. But my mother tended to be rather grandiose about those things, so her comment was that he had the highest IQ score in the history of New York City is somewhat suspect. [laughter] By 14, he had already developed some ability to draw. I have a diary of his at 18 and his drawing was fairly rudimentary. It was not polished by any means and by his own admission, he was not a great artist. But he worked so hard at his craft that, as a cartoonist, he developed a wonderful, simple line. He could get an awful lot into very little. His real gift, in my estimation, was faces, and the amount of emotion and pathos he was able to put into that part. The rest of his drawing isn’t the focal point, in my view. I think most things, whether he’s drawing animals or people, was body language and faces. CBA: I’ve always thought that his storytelling ability was also particularly strong. Lanney: Yeah, but what I see in the images that dominate, in his story telling, was the human interaction. It’s a very Jewish kind of thing, almost like Rob Reiner’s films. You get into human relationships. Whether it’s Scribbly or other projects my father worked on, it was the interplay between people, and issues of anger and sadness and disappointment and hurt. All these childlike kinds of things that perhaps had been unresolved from his own childhood came out in his drawings. That was his vehicle. By 14 I think he had already hooked up with Major Nicholson, or… Who did the Inkwell stuff? Koko the Clown? CBA: The Fleischer studio. Lanney: I think he did some inking for them early on. CBA: Yes. In 1934, he was supposed to have worked as an opaquer in the Fleischer animation studio. Lanney: That’s when he was 16 or 17, but he’d started at 14. He was already beginning to support the family by that time. His father, Leo, was disabled at some point. I don’t know what the issue was, but he could not take the freezers in the butcher shop anymore. My

knowledge of Leo was that he was not able to really work on a fulltime basis during the whole time I knew him. Leo was a very kindly soul, had a gentle spirit. He always had a deep, slow laugh, and he was just always receptive, and I enjoyed him. I remember sitting on his foot with his legs crossed, and him bouncing me up and down as a child. He was just a very kind soul, and I think my grandmother pretty much dominated him and beat him up verbally from time to time. Having children was his idea, and as soon as she gave birth, she said, “Never again!” [laughs] So she was pretty strong, perhaps she was even a somewhat emasculating woman in some respects, although I didn’t experience that. CBA: Did you dad ever say what it was that attracted him to cartooning? Lanney: Well, my guess was that he didn’t have other resources. He had picture books and maybe the Sunday funnies, and I think it hooked him early on. He found himself living more and more in that world, emulating it, maybe with his friends. He was always the comedian in school, so that kind of thing was a vehicle for him. It was a way of performing. CBA: Did he ever mention anybody else in his family being interested in comic strips? Lanney: No, not that I know of. I think as soon as he started drawing, there were those who celebrated it. He got strokes out of it and pursued it even more vigorously. Later on, he would play piano and guitar and even later, the mandolin and violin—never very well, but enough to perform. CBA: Do you think he ever considered going into performing instead? Jan. 2001

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Opposite top: Cecil—a.k.a. Spike—himself. From a sketch by Sheldon Mayer. Art ©2000 The Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Spike ©2000 DC Comics. Opposite below: Lanney Mayer as infant in a 1945 picture courtesy of his older sister, Merrily. ©2000 Merrily Mayer Harris. Above: Lanney, the inspiration for Spike, examining an ornament during Christmas, 1945. Courtesy of and ©2000 MMH.

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Lanney: Well, he did some stand-up at some point, but I think it was pretty amateurish. But I think he did some. He mentioned stories later on of doing some stand-up at a place owned by Lucky Luciano and actually meeting Luciano, and having some contact with Federal agents. He had to be very careful about the nature of their relationship. I’d think that was before he went full time into cartooning, so he must’ve been a very young man then, probably before he was 20. By 21, Superman was on the table, so he was already working for [M.C.] Gaines. CBA: In 1937 your father started ghosting the comic strip Bobby Thatcher for cartoonist Ving Fuller. I understand that he stayed in contact with Ving for a number of years after that. Lanney: Ving Fuller’s name came up, I don’t know the nature of their relationship, except that my dad liked Fuller. I have a warm spot when the name comes up, because there were nice things said about him. There was a parade of people who came to the house, and I know I met Ving Fuller. We moved to Rye in 1948 and my dad was virtually retired at that point. I was about four so I’m coming in very late in the process. All the people I met, like Irwin Hasen, who came over quite often, or even Bill Gaines, were peripheral to my experience. CBA: So your dad began working full time at a young age to support his family— Lanney: My dad supported both his parents and my mom for probably 30 years. My mother was raised in an alcoholic Irish family, so there was something of an alcoholic dynamic going on in our family. I’ve read some of the correspondence between my dad and mom, and as I look at it now, from hindsight as an adult, it seems rather naive and childlike. I think both my parents were very undeveloped in some areas of their lives. People who have focused their lives so completely in one area sometimes leave others undeveloped. The codependent dynamic, I think, played out in my parents’ world, and consequently in my own and in my sister’s. Consequently, my way of

handling that whole thing was to withdraw, and to spend a lot of time in my room. I enjoyed being in the presence of my family, but there wasn’t a lot of intimate sharing. Dad was a wonderful father in terms of crisis, but with day-to-day stuff, he was to be avoided. CBA: Why was this? Lanney: Angry outbursts and hollering. I’d wake up almost every morning to the sound of pots and pans flying around the room. It was all from his frustration. CBA: What was he usually mad at? Lanney: The creative process. Not being able to get going. Every morning, he wrote for two hours, some of it in the bathroom. I’ve got all of his steno pads, probably 50 or 60 volumes of steno filled with his free-flow writing. CBA: His published work seemed fairly effortless but it actually took a lot out of him? Lanney: Interesting you should say that. I’m not sure he would say it was effortless. CBA: Well, not effortless, but It read like it wasn’t labored over, as if he was enjoying himself. Lanney: I think once the pump was primed, the ideas would flow. But priming the pump was sometimes a halting process. I think what you’re seeing is the crystallization, the sediment, perhaps, of an awful lot of activity you never saw. Some of it was painful, a birthing, if you will, of ideas. An example might be the Sugar & Spike creation. That was in ’56, when I was already a teenager, so I could give more perspective on that. Having retired eight years earlier, he was on a stipend as a consultant, and always felt pressure to produce. I don’t know whether that was coming from the office, or whether that was coming from him, but I know that he worked as hard or harder after he stopped editing than he ever did in the office. Although he was now freed from the financial side of editing that he seemed to dislike so much. He hated squeezing artists for their work. I think universally, most of the people who worked for him felt like while he was irascible and overbearing, he always did right by them, and seemed to care about them. I think he really was a peasant in the best sense of the word, that he really never wanted to escape the people. He just wanted to draw pictures and deal with that, rather than make more money and getting away from his art. That’s certainly evident in the way he handled the Superman thing. But the creation of Sugar & Spike was a halting process, where he went around looking for some kind of a hook that would be a vehicle. He wanted very badly to make that definite something whereby he could contribute. He never got a COLA (cost of living adjustment), he retired on $15,000 a year—which at that time was quite a bit of money, he was making $50,000 as editorial director. CBA: At that time, that was…. Lanney: That was big money. But I don’t think he was ever happy with money, I don’t think he ever felt good about having it. I don’t think he ever felt good about spending it on himself. I think that may have come from his mother or the Depression mentality. There was that struggle to get an idea on the table, and he hit upon little Johnny Nye, a pre-talker, who lived across the street. He then pulled out some of the old silent films of Merrily and I (which I still have) and that was the basis of Sugar & Spike. He went through a long process before he hit upon that, and started to develop the idea. But when you are reading his stories, you don’t get involved in the pain of that process. Where things are coming and going and something he feels will work, and something he feels doesn’t work, or whether it’s just nothing coming out, you know? That came out with a lot of anger, with a lot of overt expression. CBA: Really? Did he mention that he was frustrated during the development of Sugar & Spike, or you could just tell? Lanney: There wasn’t a lot of analysis going on. As I said, I’d hear pots and pans flying in the kitchen. I would hear him cussing and screaming down there. Some of it was exasperation, something he tapped into from the frustration. I wrote a piece for Overstreet’s magazine that I think tapped into the question as to how Sugar & Spike originated, but it also deals with my dad answering his questions, and not his children’s. Because what he set up from the pictures he took was his own storyboard that actually violated… in some sense, what was going on between my sister and I. COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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CBA: How so? Lanney: Basically, it’s that I wanted to get into this garbage can, and I wanted to pull the other one on over my head and disappear. I thought that was going to be an interesting thing to do, I was going to disappear, it was a great thing for a one-year-old to do. My sister then wanted to get in the other one, and to participate. Well, then we got into a fight over that, fighting over the other pail, while my dad ran for a camera, and took pictures of the whole scene. He then set up a scenario of what was going on there. It had nothing to do with what was going on there, it had to do with the questions he brought to it, and that essentially was the nature of our family. CBA: Do you think that when he was writing Sugar & Spike, he was putting more of himself in the characters than you and Merrily? Lanney: That would always be true for any of us, wouldn’t it? You can’t separate the two. Again, the line between sympathy and empathy is sometimes a tough one to draw. But I do think he had some very deep, strong hurts in his own life that he dealt with, and that colored the way he perceived everything throughout the rest of his life. So I think there is that element going on. In fact, he always said to us that Johnny Nye was the stimulus for Sugar & Spike, and that always hurt my feelings, because I wanted it to be me! And Johnny Nye is the one that was the crystal point. Now, he would go on to say, I’m sure, “Oh, I pulled out the films of Merrily and you, and all the ideas started coming,” but I never felt that, you know? That may be my problem, but that’s the way it came to me. So yes, I think my dad’s work was dominated by his own questions. CBA: So, with Johnny Nye, he was just an infant at the time, when your dad was… Lanney: Yeah, he was a toddler. The kid walking up the street with a diaper with road apples falling out of it, or whatever, that kind of thing. My dad would pick up that scene and make something out of it. That’s what triggered it. Of course, we were 12, 13 when it started, so we were not available, to be sure! I can now say, sure, Johnny Nye might have been a trigger for his recalling our childhood, but that’s not what I heard. That may not be important, but that’s the way I remember it. CBA: Did he keep observing Johnny later on? Lanney: Oh, yeah! He started observing children again, generally. Taking the sketchpad out, looking at kids, looking at situations. As well as looking at our old family films. CBA: He said in an interview that DC asked him to come up with something to compete with the Dennis the Menace comic book. Lanney: Maybe that was it. CBA: Did he ever talk about that? Lanney: I know Dennis the Menace was mentioned around the house, and it was very popular both earlier on in the newspaper and then in the comics, and eventually in television. Of course, there was also talk about taking Sugar & Spike and making it into a television vehicle, but that never happened. I’m not sure my dad may have hurt himself in the process, because he might’ve been overbearing in the creative process, pretty controlling. CBA: How far did the television idea go? Lanney: I don’t know that it went very far at all. I know he did some drawings for a Felix the Cat television show. CBA: What time period was that? Early ’60s? Lanney: That would’ve been late ’50s, early ’60s, I believe. CBA: Do you know what his part was in that? Lanney: No, I don’t. I know there were some Felix the Cat drawings, and he was working on that as kind of a sideline project. At that time there was some talk of Sugar & Spike going into a television mode or cartoon thing. He actually did a full-blown cartoon of Sugar & Spike himself that he did at home. He stayed up a whole week with very little sleep doing it, and we put some music to it. I still have that on video. CBA: How did that turn out? Lanney: Well, it was maybe a three to five-minute piece. It was amateurish. It was his own creation. He later made himself a copy machine out of incandescent light bulbs that was very rudimentary also. But it worked. So, out of that came some very creative stuff, but it might not have been marketable as such. He was an inventor, and he would build ships and that kind of thing. He was always tinkering, toiling, and reading. He was a Civil War buff, and he read constantly Jan. 2001

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about the Revolutionary and especially the Civil War. CBA: I’ve heard he was quite a Lincoln fan. Lanney: He was quite a Lincoln fan. He was furious at one point when he found out that, in a picture of Lincoln, somebody had colored in his eyes as blue, when in fact they were gray. That irritated him. CBA: Yeah, I’ve read about that. Apparently, he was referring to a comic book story he wrote about Lincoln. Lanney: You could see how that kind of irascible nature would not lend itself to the business end of things, or to the marketing side of things. He was at the creative side, and did not suffer fools easily, as he envisioned them. He didn’t speak well of those guys in DC. They really were the businessmen who were interested only in profits. He walked away from that. He was interested in the art of it, what he would consider the meaning of it all. I think that grows out of his heritage, and his Jewishness, his peasant roots, and I don’t think he ever left that. Nor did he feel worthy. I think he was self-deprecating in some respects. It’s one of the reasons I’d like to get some of his stuff out there, because I think some of it is really wonderful art. If he’d done children’s illustrating, I think he’d have done very well, but he was answering his own questions with his projects, not yours. Understand? Not mine. So, if you were going to take Sugar & Spike to cartoon, his questions would dominate, and you can see how from the business end of things, that would create conflict for those who would look at things managerial. So I think he probably got marginalized very quickly in that process. CBA: It’s a shame the Sugar & Spike cartoon never progressed any further. The people who produce Rugrats have certainly achieved success with the same concept. Lanney: I think that’s the direction they were going in. I suspect that Rugrats grows out of that stuff. My dad would’ve been furious, I think, at Rugrats. CBA: What would have bothered him about it? Lanney: For one thing, you know that in Sugar & Spike you never saw the adults above the knee. My dad’s real focal point, conscious focal point, was, “I want to get into these kids.” He was answering the human question from the point of view of the children. And that says a lot about who my dad was. CBA: Do you think he felt as if he was still a child? Lanney: I absolutely do. I don’t think he ever grew up. I don’t think most of us ever do. I think most of the basic questions of life

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Above: Our hero dreams of gunslinging on the cover of Scribbly #4. ©2000 DC Comics. Below: Western motif doodles by Shelly. ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Inset right: In the late-’60s, Shelly was asked by DC Editorial Director Carmine Infantino and Editor Joe Orlando to help develop the atypical Western series, Bat Lash. Here’s the splash page of Shelly’s unrealized thumbnail script. For more info see Carmine & Joe’s interviews in CBA #1, and Sergio Aragonés & Dennis O’Neil’s interviews in CBA #5.

are the same ones you had when you were six years old or younger. CBA: Were the personalities of Sugar and Spike anything like yours and Merrily’s? Lanney: Well, you’ve got this premise, and you’ve got to come up with situations. He was constantly on the lookout for situations, and then new characters would have to be brought in to enhance the storylines. Yeah, there was the dynamic of the two characters, but I think behind that were basic human questions of the way people relate to people, and the way children relate to adults, and how people are understood, misunderstood, affirmed, neglected. Alice Miller, a German psychologist, has a wonderful book called The Drama of the Gifted Child, which is worth a read. She argues that the American culture, and Western culture generally, tends to have children forced to table their own feelings for the sake of the adults around them. It’s almost the dynamic of the alcoholic, “You can’t be angry or I won’t love you.” I think a lot of that kind of feeling is the stuff my dad was dealing with. To open up and validate the child. That’s what I feel in all of his art, the pathos of his art, whether he’d draw animals or people, are the joys and sadness and the sense of being misunderstood, or the black humor, or other kinds of humor, of what happens to a child. CBA: Do you feel that with Sugar & Spike, he was trying to convey his own inability to communicate with people, or to be understood? Lanney: Certainly, he was dealing with his own pain, his own unresolved questions, and seeking to be understood. Sure, there is that going on, but I think they’re common questions we all share. And I think they were strongly felt by him. He was much more concerned with those questions, I think, than he ever was with money. I’m very proud of that. I think there’s something very honorable about that. He’s almost a philosopher king in that respect. CBA: So, did you see yourself in the character of Spike? Lanney: Oh, my dad would say so, and I’m sure there was stuff that came up in real life that he used. It’s worth noting that Spike, not unlike Scribbly, was always the well-meaning but gullible buffoon (the male) easily outwitted by Sugar (the female). But I have to tell you that I never felt really validated by my dad in that respect. When I was six, I told him his guitar playing sounded out of tune to me so he got Dietz Weisman, who was a concert violinist (and was charging $100 an hour for lessons) to check me out. Deitz thought I had absolute pitch, which I don’t think I did, but I have a good ear. So he gave me lessons as a sixyear-old for free, and my dad insisted that he play, too. I always felt my dad was in competition with me, even though I was just a child. I think he was very jealous of his kids and very unable to simply revel in my success. He would do that much more easily with neighborhood kids than he did with us and I think that

was very difficult for my sister and me. He would teach drawing in a very left-brained fashion, which of course, you can’t do. Rather than celebrate our weak attempts, he would be very exacting, as he was with his employees! Well, a child is not an employee. A child is not a producer. A child is in a relationship, and the production is a by-product of that relationship, and I don’t think I ever felt loved and wanted. I felt like I was supposed to be a producer and I wasn’t going to do that, so I pulled away. When I did learn to play ukulele—my dad bought me a ukulele, and I played that a little bit—he had some contacts, and was going to get me on the Arthur Godfrey Show with him. Well, I was enough of a perfectionist—based largely, perhaps, on his exacting standards—that I didn’t feel ready to do that. Now, I later played guitar professionally, but I was not going to do that on his terms, and I refused. So, that tension was going on throughout our lives. Later on, I pitched a no-hitter in high school, and I didn’t even tell him about it. He read about it in the paper, and he said, “You know this kid Mayer? I thought we were the only Mayers in the school?” [laughter] CBA: Why didn’t you tell him? Lanney: I was validated in athletics. If he’d taken that away from me, I’d have had nothing left. CBA: Do you think he would’ve tried to co-opt your success? Lanney: I think he had his hand on my balls. I don’t think it was malicious, I don’t think it was intended. I think in his better moments, he’d have been very sad about that. In crisis, he always stepped up to the plate. I nearly burned the house down once trying to fix a ping-pong ball with a lighter. [laughter] I think he knew almost immediately after the fact that I had done it, but he never let on and he handled me with kid gloves until I was ready to talk about it. I’m very appreciative of that affirmation. But the day-to-day stuff was very painful. I think that’s true of all of us as parents, we’re just not always aware of what we’re doing to our children. I have to look back on my dad and say, “There’s a human being who comes into adulthood with a whole bag of tricks, he has no knowledge of.” CBA: I’m assuming that you didn’t really keep up with your dad’s career that much. Lanney: No, I didn’t want to. I did enjoy watching him do his doodling, and I’ve always appreciated the doodles he did while he was thinking. That, I think, was some of his great work, and I have some of that. Quite honestly, I withdrew… and

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frankly, he pushed you away! The creative process was not one he shared with you! I offered to learn to ink and to also help him letter, and he in effect said, “No, that takes a very special hand.” But rather than letting me do stuff we could throw away, and then if I ever learned to do it, bring me along, he kind of put me in a corner and didn’t want to be bothered with the frustration of having to teach. You know, it’s like when I helped him do projects around the house, I was a gopher, but I was never allowed to participate. I think that was his way of doing things. I carry that myself to this day. If what I do is any reflection on what I’ve swallowed from him, it would be that he wanted so badly to get back to his questions that he didn’t have time to wait for you to learn. He was so dominated by those questions that he didn’t have time to fool with the rest of it—or even children. Children got in the way of that process. CBA: Which seems really odd for someone who’s doing a comic book about children. Lanney: But they were his questions, not mine. So he was much more sympathetic than empathetic, and that’s a rather childish perspective that he carried throughout his life, I have to say. Now, in his better moments, he could step back and say, “Well, of course.” But in the press of unresolved questions, he was unable to do that, and I understand that! But as a child, I had to protect myself from it. CBA: So were you proud that your father had done Sugar & Spike based on you? Lanney: Oh, like any child of someone who’s a well-known person (although I never saw him that way, because I didn’t see him that much publicly), I would celebrate others and then see him as just my dad. I knew he was well respected, and that felt good—that my dad was a successful man. That’s probably the rule rather than the exception. After all, celebrities are human beings first. Most who romanticize them fail to see that. CBA: Did you enjoy Sugar & Spike at all, then? Lanney: Oh, yeah! Oh, yeah! I read ’em. Yep, I enjoyed ’em. Art is art, and to the degree I was able to enter into his storyline and his questions. And I’d laugh at the jokes and all that. I appreciated his loyalty to his fans, and the dialogue he carried on with some of them for many, many years. He rather enjoyed that part of it, too. CBA: Was your dad okay with you reading non-DC comic titles? Jan. 2001

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Lanney: Oh, yeah. We had Archie and all that stuff. Some of the Marvel stuff was floating around. He wasn’t hostile to that. We had all the old stuff sitting in the attic and I’d bring it down to my bed and read it all, and he’d be furious. In fact, he came into my room one time and I had them all under my covers, and he sat on the bed. If he’d caught me with them, he’d have beaten me silly… or at least told me he would. He’d never hit me, he never did. He certainly would’ve ranted and raved like he was about to. Later on, that stuff was all mouse-eaten and rotten, and he had the number one issues of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. If he had a pristine copy of those, they would’ve gone between $150200,000. And yet, here’s my sister, struggling to survive in Seattle! It’s rather interesting. His perspectives just worked that way. Of course, they used to throw that stuff down to soak up ink from the presses. They didn’t care. CBA: Did your father ever talk about Max Gaines? Lanney: Yeah, there’s a wonderful whittling that I wish I

Above: Character and period development sketches by Shelly for the innovative Bat Lash series. ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Below: Page 13 of Shelly’s thumbnail Bat Lash script. Bat Lash ©2000 DC Comics. Art ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer.

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Above: We tried to get DC’s permission to print an entire unpublished S&S story, but perhaps understandably they declined our request. As huge fans, we’re convinced that S&S would be successful with kids in any era and we hope DC has plans for these terrific tots. Courtesy of Bill Alger. Below: Custom-made card by Shelly. Art ©2000 the Estate of Sheldon Mayer. Characters ©2000 DC Comics.

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had. Apparently he gave it to the Gaines family in his will. I wish I had it, it’s a wonderful caricature of Max. CBA: Yeah, I’ve seen a photo of that. Lanney: Oh, it’s wonderful. That, to me, is some of his best work. CBA: Merrily remembers it as being destroyed at one point. Lanney: Not that one. I think that was given to the Gaines family. I have some other whittlings, and some of those are broken up. CBA: Merrily said that your dad told her that there was a sculpture of Max Gaines on a shelf and one day it just broke apart. The very next day, Gaines died. Lanney: Well, that’s news to me. It may be true, but I don’t know. I remember that had been given to their family, maybe in pieces, maybe it had been put back together. I’d bet that was another piece of work than the whittling I remember. CBA: Do you know what the relationship was between your father and Max Gaines? Lanney: I really don’t. I know that he was always very fond of Bill, and acted as a consultant to help him through some of the tough times with Mad magazine. When they were getting lambasted for sexual innuendo and all that kind of stuff. CBA: How did your father react to that? I guess you’re talking about the Kefauver Committee investigations? Lanney: I think he saw that as just political bullsh*t. I mean, My dad would not draw that way, but I think he thought that most of the investigation was a vendetta. CBA: In the 1950s, being in the comic industry was looked down upon. Did this ever affect your father? Lanney: Well, you know, I think there was always that feeling that when some-

body said, “You’re an artist,” that’s one thing. If somebody said, “You’re a comic book person,” I did think he felt that was secondclass. Yeah, and he would have liked to have been appreciated as an artist and writer in good standing. In my view, the craft he learned in the comic book industry was almost like a newspaperman’s quick read. Get a headline, punch it out, and get out, so that the comic book was never full-blown. It was always a simple line and a quick hit. I think that craft is a wonderful tool for illustration. That’s why children’s illustrating might have been a very good vehicle for him to transfer over, but that never occurred to nor interested him. Yet, he was constantly illustrating life with pictures! Not politically, he had no interest in political questions—not that he didn’t have political opinions, but that most of his perspectives were much more existential than they were politically driven. I think he might have been able to make that transfer, and I think some of his later work does show that. But yeah, I think there was that sense of being a second-class citizen, particularly as comic books were marginalized by television. CBA: Did your dad keep in close contact with Bill Gaines throughout the years? Lanney: My dad was not intimately close with anybody, although people felt they were close to him. But he always kept control, because he needed his space. He was a very internal man, and he needed his privacy, and would not let anybody violate that. I mean, even when the Dugan Bread man came up the stairs unannounced, my dad threw him down the stairs! [laughter] I mean, he did not like people coming over without calling first! CBA: Do you think that’s why he moved up into the hills? Lanney: Oh, yeah! He was reclusive at the very core of his being. Arguably, he could have done well if he stayed in that first house—I was back there in September, and it was selling for close to a million dollars. It was just a 2,500 square foot frame home with the land. But he wasn’t driven by those concerns, investments, any of that. Although he was well-invested and he was very careful and prudent, he made some decisions at the end that were maybe unwise. But that’s forgivable in light of his circumstances. Early on, I think he was COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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driven by real caution to provide, and he did a very good job of providing for three families for 25-30 years. CBA: Did your dad mention ever dealing with Siegel and Shuster? Lanney: DC wanted my dad to publish “Superman” himself. They didn’t want him to put him on their presses. They weren’t that interested in it, and he could’ve really established himself with “Superman.” CBA: You said they wanted him to publish it himself? Lanney: That was my recollection. “We’ve got some presses on the West Side that are not being used right now. Go publish it yourself, start a company.” He refused to do it. Now, he purchased it for $300, as I recall. CBA: He purchased Superman from Siegel and Shuster? Lanney: Yeah. They couldn’t sell it to anybody. But again, he was not driven by those questions, and insisted the company take it and make it work. I suspect my dad was pretty good at spotting good ideas and the operations of editing. CBA: Did you know Jack Liebowitz? Lanney: Yeah, yeah. I liked Liebowitz, but I always had the feeling that he was the guy who just wanted to make money; he was not interested in the art. CBA: Your father did a number of personalized cards for Liebowitz. Lanney: He did that for a lot of people. I have one for his mother, when she was quite old. I actually took the Sugar and Spike holding hands and waving with the other hand from the card and put it on my dad’s tombstone. He did a lot of that stuff, yeah. CBA: Where is he buried? Lanney: He’s buried at Pine Plains, which is just south of Copake. CBA: As far as you know, was “Scribbly,” pretty autobiographical? Lanney: I would bet so, yes. He said as much. CBA: DC gave him his own comic book in the 1950s and it became more of a teen dating comic. Lanney: Oh, trying to compete with Archie? CBA: Yeah. Can you recall him ever talking about the change in Jan. 2001

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the character? Lanney: No, except that I knew he was aware of Archie. So much of all that, in my view, was pot boiling, and looking for a vehicle to make a buck rather than really the art of it all. Of course, that’s always the tension, what sells as opposed to what’s art. I mean, that’s always the tension for publishers and for book people. What sells is rarely good art. What sells is what housewives or teeny-boppers want and people who are on the economic end of publishing tend to forget the art for the sake of all that bottom-line stuff. That is true for all business. He really went backwards into all that, I think. CBA: When your father was a child, he’s said to have gotten together with neighborhood friends and have gone on imaginary adventures. Do you think this influenced his Three Mouseketeers work? Lanney: Oh, I’m sure, yeah. Of course, he had read the classics, and he’d take off from those and adapt that. Even as a child, he’d read that stuff and got lost in the adventure of it. But again, bringing the child’s perspective to it, he could do that more easily with the animals than the adult questions. He wasn’t so much interested in the adult questions as the childhood questions, and I think that was true in Scribbly as well as in Sugar & Spike. Now, he might argue with me over that, but I always felt he was driven by much more deep and fundamental questions than the politics of social justice and adult kinds of things. CBA: Do you remember a car-

Below: In 1977, five years after the cancellation of Sugar & Spike, Mayer fans banded together to produce the fanzine Glx Sptzl Glaah!, the title a homage to the writer/artist’s delightful baby jabber in the series. Cover art by CBG columnist and comics historian Mark Evanier. ©2000 the respective copyright holder. Characters ©2000 DC Comics.

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Above: Shelly didn’t draw all of the Sugar & Spike stories for the international market. Here’s an early 1980s Mexican S&S page— certainly not up to snuff, in our humble opinion—featuring (of all things) Steven Spielberg’s E.T.! S&S ©2000 DC Comics. E.T. ©2000 Amblin’ Entertainment/Universal.

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toonist named Rube Grossman? Lanney: Yeah. CBA: Grossman drew DC humor stories at DC. Merrily told me that he and your father were friends. Lanney: Yeah, I just don’t know how well. CBA: He took over Three Mouseketeers after your father quit drawing the comic book. He also did the Rudolph comic book in the 1950s. Lanney: Okay, okay. I really don’t know much about it, because again, those people didn’t come to the house. That was all done by phone and visits to the office and all that kind of thing. But never at the house, so it’s all very discontinued. I think Merrily and I wished my dad had stayed as editor. CBA: Oh, really? Lanney: Having him around the house was a Left: Shelly’s pain! [laughter] version of Monday was idea day, the ’70s Batman. and we had to be real ©2000 DC quiet around the house. Comics. In the summertime, I couldn’t go out in the yard and play, it was ugly. He worked very hard. CBA: What were the terms when he quit

being an editor? Lanney: My recollection is that he got full medical benefits, $15,000 a year, in perpetuity. CBA: Would his pay go up? Lanney: No, there was no COLA at any time. In fact, they reduced it to $13,500 later on. I’m not sure how much later on, but it might’ve been 10, 15 years later. So in point of fact, it became clear to me that there were new elements at DC that really thought he was a hanger-on that they wanted to get rid of. Even though they appreciated him and wanted his input at points. But they wanted him when they wanted him. My dad was irascible, and probably not easy to deal with. CBA: Did he get additional money for doing Sugar & Spike? Lanney: I think what little was there, he did it for them. I don’t know whether they paid in addition to that, or what. I think he just did that for the salary, I don’t think he got any additional money at all. CBA: Was he vocal about his reasons for leaving his editorial position at DC? Lanney: I think the whole business of comic books weighed on him heavily, and it chewed him up, and he really would much prefer just drawing pictures at home. So, he paid $9,000 cash in 1947 and owned his own house, and he retired in order to just draw pictures at home. Maybe he was not looking at the big picture, but he still negotiated a position that he was able to take care of his responsibilities. He put me through college, at a very expensive private college. He loved the people side of it, and training people. Sure I think he could sit around and draw pictures, and train guys to draw pictures all day, but the business side of it, and the deadlines, and the squeezing people to get work in and all that, that was difficult for him. He just barely finished high school and was very proud later on that he could lecture at Pace and stuff like that. He was bright and well-read, but an untrained mind academically speaking. I don’t know if Jack Liebowitz was a college graduate or not, but I suspect he was. There were some anti-Semitic folk at DC, too. Major Nicholson came up for discussion one or two times. Some of them were part of the American Bund [a 1930s’ pro-Nazi German-American organization], so there was that kind of tension sometimes. CBA: What did he say about Nicholson? Lanney: If I remember correctly, he had some German affections, and some anti-Semitic stuff. But my dad spoke with him two ways. There was that, but the other side of the coin was that he liked him. CBA: Was your dad proud about what he accomplished as an editor? Lanney: I think he was proud of the Superman thing. In his recollection, nobody wanted it, and he pushed it on them. That’s his recollection of that. I don’t know if that squares with history, but that was what I heard from him. I don’t know if that squares with what you know about it. CBA: Basically, I keep reading different things from everybody that was, and wasn’t, there. Lanney: Yeah, you will. Anytime something is that successful, that’s true. CBA: So there’s no one viewpoint I’ve ever heard. Did he ever talk about any of the other characters he helped create, as far as the super-heroes? He was the first editor of “Wonder Woman,” so he must’ve been instrumental in bringing the character together. Lanney: I remember the story about the creator of Wonder Woman. What’s his name? CBA: William Moulton Marston. Lanney: W.M. Marston. He was a Harvard psychologist. I have since seen an article he wrote in the ’40s, quoted in a journal I was working with, so he was apparently a functioning psychologist. Apparently he was writing some very anti-comic book stuff, and my dad invited him down to New York to talk. And it turns out he was a frustrated cartoonist, and my dad hired him! [laughter] That’s the story he told me. To look at Wonder Woman now, we have an Amazon… this is some lesbian thing going on— CBA: It’s totally sado-masochistic lesbianism. Lanney: Absolutely! And in retrospect, I can see that. As I child, I didn’t. I was rather intrigued with her ability to knock bullets off with your wrists and all that. But looking at it now—this came from a psyCOMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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chologist? This is some weird stuff! [laughter] So apparently, the guy had strange feelings. Now, I met Pete [Marston’s son] and got to know Pete a little bit as a child. I remember watching Joe DiMaggio in his last year of his playing baseball, 1951, at their house in Connecticut on TV. We didn’t have a TV at that time. But Pete had gone to Harvard, and apparently got thrown out for… I think they reconstructed a jeep in the president’s office, and he got tossed out for that. He was a bright guy, but he was driving a truck and delivering boats around or something. My dad was always very fond of Pete. My dad was a very fatherly soul. He was a very nurturing soul when he wasn’t being an S.O.B. CBA: That was Pete Marston? Lanney: Peter Marston. I know Ann, his sister, was a friend of my dad’s. I’d like to find out about a rocking chair we now have in our home that was given by the Marston family to my dad. It was an 1804 Boston Rocker, an upright converted to a rocker, which I’m told by folk who are in the know that it’s not worth a great deal of money, but as a collector’s item from Marston to Mayer would be quite good, I suspect. But it’s handmade, and there’s only one nail in it, and it’s a handmade nail for repair purposes. It’s a legitimate antique, and I’ve always wanted to get hold of the Marston family to authenticate it, but I haven’t been able to do that. (If you have the opportunity to get hold of the Marstons in any way shape or form, put them in touch with me, by all means.) And he was a big guy, so I don’t know how healthy he was. Ann, as I recall, was a charming lady, an attractive girl, but I don’t know her; I’d met her but I don’t know her. CBA: Had your father ever discussed William Marston’s personality with you? Lanney: No. Only that he was attacking comic books. That he really was a frustrated cartoonist, and wanted to draw pictures, so dad gave him a vehicle. CBA: Did your dad ever talk about how bizarre the early “Wonder Woman” stories were? Lanney: You know, that stuff never came out! Not to me. I still Jan. 2001

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wonder about Batman and Robin! I mean…. you know? And Alfred for that matter! I mean, come on, what’s that all about? CBA: Well, yeah, you’ve got a little kid running around in his underwear. Lanney: Yeah, in his underwear, and there’s big Batman over there nurturing him. Put that on the internet, you know? Perspective is everything. My dad felt that all that stuff was mythical. Not so much psychological, but mythical. They were mythical in the sense that the ancient Near-Eastern myths and others were ways of answering life’s questions. Today, cartoons do the same kind of thing. It might even be related to Neitzsche or to the Jewish shtetl superman of Sholem Alechim, the berman kind of thing where there was a Jewish

Above: After the U.S. demise of S&S, Shelly served as a consultant for DC Comics. Memorably, he developed with Joe Kubert and Nestor Redondo the ambitious Stories from the Bible Limited Collectors’ Edition (sadly, of which only one volume was produced). Below: Shelly also created the character Black Orchid for Adventure Comics #428 in 1973. Below is a detail from Bob Oksner’s cover art of her debut. ©2000 DC Comics.

story that may have been behind Siegel and Shuster’s thinking of the rescuer of the Jews; that kind of thing. So it was these mythological elements that triggered my dad’s interest. Again, he’s looking at childlike questions of how do we survive in the world, I don’t think he was even old enough to even deal with the Oedipal stuff, if you will. I think he was dealing with primal stuff! [laughter] CBA: Did he ever have much contact with his fans? Lanney: Well, the few that sought him out, he responded. He always answered all his fan mail. There were a couple of people, one woman in particular from age 10 or 11 on through graduate school that he knew. There’s correspondence to that 43-B

Below: A more recent shot of Lanney Mayer. Courtesy of Merrily Mayer Harris.

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effect, some of which I have. That goes on 10, 12, 15 years. CBA: Was it important to him to own his original art? Lanney: He kept it all, he didn’t throw away anything, he was a bit of a pack rat, so I have all the Sugar & Spike storyboards and onionskins. I have the bound Scribbly book and some of other stuff, and a lot of the doodles and things, and of course, I have all the appointment books and all of his free-flow writing. CBA: I’ve seen some drawings your dad did on consignment in the 1970s and ’80s. He seemed to have put a lot of work into these. Lanney: Yeah, he did repros for between $2000 and $5000 a pop, I think. Some Superman stuff, some Mutt & Jeff stuff. People would ask him to do some by consignment, and he’d send the money to Merrily and I. CBA: Do you know what exactly he did on the Mutt & Jeff comic book? Lanney: Well, all of those guys developed an ability to do each other’s styles, so dad would do covers for Mutt & Jeff. I do see some Mutt & Jeff by my dad that looks very much like Mutt & Jeff, you know? CBA: I’ve seen a few covers that look like your father drew them. Lanney: It may well be. CBA: Your parents were from different religious backgrounds? Lanney: Yeah, a lot of issues came up out of that. My dad had been raised Orthodox, and when his father left, of course, that destroyed that possibility. So he was only Bar Mitzvah’ed because he, himself, went on his own as kind of a bastard child (a mamzeh) to the synagogue to get it done. Then, when they moved to Rye and he was in a

position of more economic success and so on, the local synagogue did a tax check on him to see how much money they were going to get from him, and he was so furious, he never went back. So he was always Jewish, but he was never a participating, functioning Jew. Consequently, we were raised in a rather non-religious home with a Dr. Spock mentality, that kind of post-War behavior modification thing, you put your hand out to get it kissed and all that… it was really nonsense. So, there was no religion, we were left to our own devices, and I wound up getting involved in the Evangelical world with my mother. Christmas was always a great point of tension each year, even when we were still living in New York. When I see the old family films, I have powerful memories that are conjured up of the anger and the fights and the stuff that came out at Christmastime. CBA: What happened during Christmas? Lanney: Well, eventually, there’d be a lot of shouting back and forth between my mother and my father. Part of it was that my dad was very jealous of us kids who were getting so many gifts. On the one hand, they were lavishing us with things beyond reason—just throwing stuff at us, which now as a parent I see as absolute idiocy. If our children open up presents at Christmas and want to play with one, we don’t move on to the next one, to force them, that’s an adult thing. Kids don’t care, so we spread Christmas out over a long time, and don’t really give them that many gifts. They don’t need them as young children, and I think it serves an adult purpose, and plays into an adult dynamic, and in fact, also tapped into the jealousy and disappointment and hurt of my dad’s childhood. And it came out in terms of attack. He was like a child who got pulled away from the breast too soon, and simply needed more of that, and never got it. We had a cat like that and he always used to suck on your ear afterwards, because he was still looking for his mother. I think there was a lot of that in my dad. CBA: He worked on a series of Rudolph specials in the 1970s, he wrote a Bible adaptation comic book, and he did a number of other comics featuring Christmas stories. What do you think kept bringing him back to this theme? Lanney: During that time, I was in seminary, strangely enough, and I think that my dad was doing some theological thinking himself. He and my mother were trying to gain some rapprochement—don’t forget that my dad could never see Christianity as a vehicle, because these are the people who had oppressed him! They’d throw his Torah in the snow when he went to synagogue and that kind of thing. So it was a very long time before he could separate Christianity from Christians. I think he had a broader view of religion towards the end of his life. While he was always a Jew, I think he very much appreciated some of what went on in the person of Jesus the Jew. I’ve come to appreciate Christianity from the first century Jewish-Christian perspective as opposed to a later early church thing. There’s a lot of neo-Platonism, philosophical things that enter in, that take away, that maybe we’ve been struggling to overcome ever since. I was in seminary at the time, and I had some perspectives on the subject. I was never consulted, and that always kind of hurt my feelings, because I might have been able to give him some perspective, albeit perhaps sophomoric and maybe not the kind of things a marketing person would address, so maybe he was wise to avoid me. I think part of that was an expression of his relationship with my mother and their ongoing dialogue after Merrily and I were out of the house. CBA: Do you think your mother had an influence on him to do The Bible comic? Lanney: It became part of his own repertoire, things to address. He got interested in answering biblical questions and minutia, and that kind of thing. I didn’t always agree with some of the stuff he came up with. He didn’t have the tools to do it, but he always asked good questions. CBA: Apparently, your father tried to break into children’s books at one point. Lanney: I remember that vaguely, but whether he actually started to do his own children’s book…. CBA: I’ve seen slides made of artwork your father did for a children’s book, probably in the early 1970s. Lanney: Yeah. That’s already when he was physically in decline, in my view. CBA: When do you think was his prime period? COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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Lanney: I would say by 1970, he was already slowing down. I would say the ’60s was probably the end of his real strong, productive period. His eyes were getting worse, and so on… and of course, he had the cataract surgery. His work got much more detailed after that, much more careful with all the lenses he had to work through and all that. Yeah, I think his most productive time was before that. That’s a little bit like the time when he was developing Sugar & Spike. He was looking around for alternative vehicles, and he wanted to contribute and hold his weight. He felt like he was sucking off the teat of the organization, and he didn’t like that very much. CBA: Did he ever talk about trying to get his own comic strip syndicated? Lanney: He never did. Whether he wanted to or not, there didn’t seem to be any movement in that direction. It seems to me that’s a much easier thing to do, where you can take a storyboard and spread it out over a long period of time. All you need is a quick hit scenario, three panels and you’re out for the day. CBA: He had drawn a whole bunch of Sugar & Spike dailies that he was shopping around. Lanney: And it never caught on with anyone? CBA: It never caught on, no. Lanney: My dad’s following has always been intense and small. Scribbly was that way. And so he didn’t appeal to a broader constituency or broader set of questions the way a Charles Schulz might, for example. I had this experience playing guitar. In fact, one of the reasons I never stayed with professional work was because I was not interested in performing either to make money or to answer anybody else’s questions. I played guitar to answer my questions. I was interested in the music, and what it said. I think my dad was that way with his artwork, that he was driven by his own demons, his own questions, and he was addressing those, and sometimes other people liked it, and that’s fine. [laughs] And if you didn’t, go to hell! [laughs] I think there is that element. Had he been much more of a social being, he would’ve had more marketing sense, and he would’ve gone out and just made his creative urge resonate better with society. But he was within himself, and he had a niche, and that’s where he stayed, and if there was a market for that niche, fine, if there was not, then there wasn’t. CBA: What one of his projects do you think best answered the questions he was struggling with? Lanney: Well, I think there’s a thread you can see throughout his work, whether it’s Scribbly, which is the aspiring cartoonist, an adolescent thing, and then there’s Sugar & Spike, which is a more childlike thing. But I think the same kinds of questions come up in both. I’ve never sat down to say what those questions were. It’d be interesting, perhaps, to look at the storyboards, and the storylines of each of these things, and to isolate what’s the basic question being answered in this scene, what’s being set up here. And if you laid those out, you might get a pattern into my dad’s psychology. CBA: Are you familiar with the “Sugar & Spike” stories he did for the international market in the 1980s? Lanney: No, except that I know they were going Europe and Japan and doing well there. CBA: Do you think that there was any one part of his career that he was particularly proud of? Lanney: I think he was proud of the people who went on successfully that he trained. He was proud of Irwin Hasen. He was proud of any number of other guys who did well. CBA: Alex Toth? Lanney: Alex Toth is another, yeah. I remember seeing his letter about my dad, which was a very nice tribute. CBA: Is there any of your father’s work that you consider his best? Lanney: Yes. His doodles. I think the best work he ever did were—and I asked him to do this in the ’50s, I told him when he was doing Sugar & Spike and he’d sit there and draw while he was on the phone. So he started in the bathroom, he started a sketchbook, and he signed and dated them when he finished them, and they’d take about a month each, and I’ve got about 400 to 600 sheets of that stuff, of animals peeking out from behind stuff, mice fighting with cats… I mean, absolutely hilarious and engaging stuff! And I get closer to my dad in that than I do with everything else, I feel his presence in that stuff. It is captivating. Jan. 2001

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CBA: It seems like DC was fairly good to him later on in his life as far as continuing to give him a salary…. Lanney: He wasn’t well, physically, and I think there were some younger people coming in to positions of responsibility. Fortunately they were people who appreciated his patriarchal stature, if you will. They stepped in and stepped up to the plate and made sure his medical benefits were continued and that he was taken care of. Certainly he did not gouge the organization, and they chose not to gouge him. I think that was very honorable on their part. CBA: You mentioned that your father used his comic book stories to resolve personal questions he had concerning his life. Do you think that he resolved any of his questions by the time he passed away? Lanney: Well, like most of us, he resolved some of them, and didn’t resolve others. He had congestive heart failure and was going downhill. He was much older than his years when he was in his sixties. My mother was taking care of him, and had been, in fact, for most of his life, in one way or another. But then she came down with either lung cancer or melanoma (we’re not sure which) and he rallied to take care of her. If there was a crisis, he was fine. If there was no crisis, he created one. So he rallied to take care of her for a number of years, When she was dying, I was trying to make contact with her by writing and talking about death, trying to say goodbye. Well, he and his niece— my sister’s daughter who lived with them for a couple of years, and lived closed to them in regard—would black out those lines for her so she never saw them! And when my dad died—he just got tired, went in to my mom one night and said, “You know, I’m really tired. I can’t do it anymore.” And she said, “Okay.” Two days later, he was gone—But he withdrew into his little office, and there was no opportunity to say goodbye to him, either. CBA: Is there anything else you’d like to say about your father? Lanney: Oh, I love my dad. I think that he was a man trying to make sense of the world as best he could. His intensity and his integrity both were great. While there are things about my dad that I find very painful to recall, I think of him as a good man. He was not malicious, and he would not hurt others, but he had demons. CBA: Thanks again for taking time with us. Lanney: It’s a pleasure, and I hope it’s helpful. It’s been cathartic for me.

Above: Shelly as a young boy, riding a pony. Courtesy of Merrily Mayer Harris. Below: Lanney Mayer as teenager. Courtesy of Merrily Mayer Harris.

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Sugar & Spike Cover Gallery 99 Covers of S&S to Enthrall! Courtesy of Beverly Martin & Jon Ingersoll

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A Life With Sugar & Spike

…And Everything Nice The World’s Greatest S&S Fan on the Influence of Mayer’s “Kids”

Inset right: Tammi Martin (left) and her mom, Beverly, share some time reading their favorite comic series, Sugar & Spike. Courtesy of Beverly.

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by Beverly Martin Rugrats… Look Who’s Talking… Baby Geniuses. Over the last 20 years or so, Hollywood has featured babies and toddlers in movies and television shows who talk amongst themselves and perform fantastic feats as the children explore this New World they’ve been thrust into. But Sheldon Mayer did it first in 1956—and far better—than did any of those decently animated television shows and unbelievably lame movies. His terrific twosome, Sugar Plumm and Cecil “Spike” Wilson, (yes, Cecil is his real name! No wonder he liked “Spike” better!) starred in the bi-monthly humor title for DC Comics in 1956. Sugar & Spike featured many amazing adventures and mishaps—the duo could not only talk to each other in “baby-talk”—which naturally no adult could understand and always figured they were just “jabbering”—but also to other babies and toddlers, some slightly older children and even baby animals. In Peanuts-like” fashion, we almost never get to see their parents’ faces, even though we do see the grown-ups’ legs and arms and—unlike Charlie Brown & Co.—we get to hear (via dialogue balloons) the parents’ (usually very confused) point of view about what they think their toddlers are up to. Unlike Schulz’ Peanuts, in this world Mayer also let us see all of the other grown-ups in the toddler’s lives: Sugar’s favorite Uncle Charley—a kindhearted policeman who always seemed to get into as much trouble as they did! There was Sugar’s Granpa Plumm—who understood the kids’ lingo—and the duo even met Santa Claus, the only other grown-up who could (naturally!) understand and expertly speak baby-talk! They started out innocently and ended their run innocently—their many adventures amassing an amazing 98 issues on a bi-monthly basis from 1956 to ’71. (A special “Silver Age Classics” issue, S&S #99, was released in ’92 after Mayer’s death, featuring many tributes from his colleagues in the comics community and—with the exception of the international stories he completed during the 1980s—#99 showcased his final Sugar & Spike tales. Mayer explains his basic approach to Sugar & Spike in the very first issue, in an essay entitled “Safety-Pin Scientist,” wherein he asks the reader to place themselves in their baby sibling’s shoes (or booties). He explains the worldview of a baby, trying and achieving empathy with the reader so that they

would understand things as if they were indeed new to our world: Determining how their bodies worked in regards to grasping objects, standing upright, and even figuring out the fundamentals of gravity! A concept, which Mayer mentions, took the grown-ups a long time to understand until Newton explained it to them! Mayer closes the essay by reminding the reader, “The next time your baby brother or sister pours pabulum all over your arithmetic homework, try not to complain. Just remember that the fault is probably yours—you had no business getting in the way of an important scientific experiment! Just who do you think you are, anyway!” That, in a nutshell, explains why Sugar and Spike get into so many misadventures: If it wasn’t for all those big people getting in the way of their various experiments and such, all would have turned out well and their fun would have been complete! But, no! Instead, big people misunderstand all of S&S’s best intentions and mess up the kids’ plans for the day. Sometimes, I reflect on how it’s a tad bizarre that I adore a comic that was created before I was even born. I came along into the world in 1962. Like many kids, I enjoyed cartoons and stuff and was already an avid reader and aspiring artist when comics came into my life 10 years later. It was 1972 and my first two comics were DC titles: Teen Titans (ooh, love that Nick Cardy art!) and Sugar & Spike (#90 with the cool pink dragon-like “Flumsh”!). A little while later, my parents and I visited a local used bookstore and I had found Sugar &Spike #59. I was just 10 years old at the time, already a science-fiction reader. I had started with some Tom Corbett hardcovers in third grade and my dad’s juvenile Asimov, Heinlein, and Clarke editions. From those, along with his original Pogo and Peanuts collected editions obviously, I was well on my way to becoming a science-fiction and comics enthusiast. Now, at the age of 38, I still am. Like many comics fans, today my reading tastes run the gamut of the entire DC line, a little bit of Marvel, and all sorts of independents but, no matter what, I always had a soft spot for my Sugar & Spikes. Maybe it was because they were so darned hard to find but I know it’s because I enjoy their simple innocent charm as well. Basically put, I am a bit of a “Renaissance Fangrrl”: I love comics, science-fiction, cartoons, fantasy, toys, and now the even “new and more fun” toys like computers and DVDs. Technology is fun! At the same time, I also am blessed to have my own little “Sugar” in my life, our daughter Tammi who I watched explore her world solo when she was a babe and toddler—often, I would be resting with an issue of Sugar & Spike in my hands trying to equate some of her adventures with theirs—sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t. In any case, I have brought another diehard Sugar & Spike lover into the world! She loves reading them with me when I get them out of my collection for our comics reading time. Over the years as a collector, there was a common question I asked at just about every comics con or comics shop around Texas: “Do you have any Sugar & Spikes?” Usually I got completely bewildered looks and a round of “Sugar and wha..? Never heard of it.” It COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

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could be pretty depressing to try to find even one beat-up S&S. One thing so many people don’t realize about Sugar & Spike was how hard it is to find complete issues in better shape than “reading” copies. “Very good” is about the best anyone can do, with super-rare “near mints” out there selling for often outrageous prices. Sugar & Spike always had fun and amusing stories, but Mayer also provided very lively letter pages, adorable “Pint-Size Pin-Up” paper dolls, plus a regular “Write Your Own Cartoon” feature encouraging kids to make up dialogue and then send it in. What really makes Sugar & Spike stand out is how Mayer involved his readers, often crediting them with story ideas and gags—as well as generously citing the kids (and adults!) who sent in countless ideas for clothing and costumes for all the characters to wear. In all honesty, I don’t know whether these folks were compensated, but after researching via eBay, it is apparent DC and Mayer did send “thank you” postcards to many who sent in letters and ideas [see pgs. 15 and 35 of this section]. Mayer was amazingly interactive and involved with his readership, understanding where they were coming from. And his audience appreciated he was showing them thoughts or experiences that they may have had at one time in their lives. An especially endearing aspect of the series was the guests who would pop up in the tots’ small world. Bernie the Brain is the smartest toddler in the world, and the perfect protagonist to join and initiate many of the misadventures in the series. Bernie created an ESP device that let the kids grow and make their wishes come true (with hilarious results), causing Sugar and Spike to go backwards and forwards in time, letting them even fly! You name it, Bernie probably invented it! The main antagonist in Sugar and Spike’s existence was Little Arthur, a really annoying boy who blamed his bad behavior on the kids. Also able to speak and understand “baby-talk,” he made a formidable opponent (I think even Angelica of Rugrats would have a problem with him!). He was a naughty little brat who usually got his comeuppance while the kids would look on innocently—even though they were sometimes the ones who set him up to be hoisted on his own petard! Sugar’s Uncle Charley was also a mainstay in their lives, a policeman who served as foil and instigator of many of the events that ended up getting all three of them in trouble. He was in the corner with the kids as much as they were since he was obviously single, thought he “knew” what the toddlers wanted—or thought he could teach them—but he was as much a kid (albeit the oversized variety) as they were. Another significant (and socially relevant) addition to the Sugar & Spike family was added in 1971 with issue #94. Raymond, an African-American toddler, met Sugar and Spike and was later featured in short adventures of his own. Raymond even had some paperdoll pages devoted to this new character that Mayer brought into the fray. Why is Sugar and Spike so timeless? I think sometimes the answer is obvious: kids will be kids will be kids. There will always be that innocent exploration of their world that babies and toddlers experience. It sounds hokey, but that will always be there as long as there are children born in the world. Kids always say or do so many things innocently that many times we adults should sit back and savor those moments before their childhood ends. To me, Sugar & Spike represents that eternal childhood where people left their doors unlocked, mothers stayed home and raised their children, and those kids had time to be kids. Along with my daughter, I see some parents push their kids to be uber-geniuses and sports greats even at the tender age of five! Maybe Sugar & Spike speaks to me and tells me to let my daughter be a kid, her time for stress and adulthood will come soon enough (probably sooner than I know it as she starts grade school this year!)—but I have faith she will be an independent thinker and will have many positive influences to assist her on the path of her life. In truth, my favorite aspect of the series has always been the covers, as Mayer had to be economical in the use of space; either a one-, two-, or four-panel gag that conveyed the essence of the writer/artist’s sense of humor for the entire book. Jan. 2001

COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

Almost every single one of Sugar & Spike’s covers are winners (though some of the Valentine’s Day issues are weak) and they revealed Mayer spending a lot of time and care to get the entire concept across with such minimalism, a sign of a true craftsman who loved to entertain his audience. Why do I like Sugar & Spike so much? On many levels, the title represents a fun dream existence to me: Being able to talk to all manner of folks (even baby animals!) as long as they were toddlertalking like me. For the people who do know me, know that “I don’t do cute” (à là Garfield) but I do adore Sugar & Spike. I see aspects of those toddlers in my daughter, or in the kids I observe in restaurants—the ones parents may be ignoring and all the kids want is a little attention. The art and stories of the title are always solid fun—where else could we meet a Flumsh? And it sure justified my world to see toddlers smarter than the average adult—even before Bernie the Brain joined up! The kids’ adventures were always grounded in reality (unlike Rugrats where the characters often delve into fantasy land stuff) and always seemed to be based on each character’s interpretation of people and events. Like Spike being worried about being blamed for the ocean—where else but in the mind of a child? The tales are always fun for me, as I still to this day see many nuances and references in the tales as well as relishing Mayer’s simple but delicate line work. Much like his Scribbly, Shelly kept the charac-

Above: Courtesy of Steve Cohen, the original cover art to S&S #94, featuring the debut of Raymond, the series’ first African-American co-star. Much thanks to Steve and Tom Field for their help getting this (and the next page’s pin-up pages) to CBA at the last minute. They are indeed two dedicated Mayer fans! ©2000 DC Comics.

Following page: One of the most endearing aspects of the series was the regular inclusion of activity pages. Here, courtesy of Steve Cohen, are the “Pint Size Pin-up” pages included in Sugar & Spike #88, featuring the popular character, Bernie the Brain. ©2000 DC Comics. 51-B

ters cartoonish but grounded in reality. At many times, the detail of his brushwork is very intricate and composed. (I would love to see how more detailed his artwork would reproduce in this age of modern printing techniques as the artist was limited in his day to use only strong, bold lines for printing.) Mayer was a fine writer, often adhering to a simple four-panel page but varying the presentation, some wide, some thin—always using innovative camera shots of characters and action. I have noticed in retrospect —and after much learned reading of sequential art over the years—how the panel borders never have a hard, sharp edge to them; Mayer just kept the panels flowing in an almost fantasy-tale fashion. As the series progressed, and perhaps as Mayer got older with worsening vision, the panels and artwork got larger in scale, but even this change didn’t get in the way of the stories he wanted to tell. Tim, my husband of 20 years, thinks that Sugar is the conniving, scheming one of the pair while Spike is her gullible foil. (Now I don’t see it that way since Spike often comes up with silly stuff on his own.) The boy seems to be the younger of the two and always has a more innocent outlook on the world, while Sugar is the bit more seasoned and skeptical tot… but I don’t see her as conniving (then again, I am a girl!). Sugar generally doesn’t leave Spike holding the bag and usually helps him get out of trouble, and if not, she shares the punishment—invariably time in the corner—with him. Speaking of the “corner”: One thing that still stays with me about Sugar & Spike is the memory of a simpler time, when children received a smack on the wrist with a “No-no, naughty!” when they did wrong or—if they really screwed up—they were placed in the corner to wait out their punishment “time out” (before shrinks came up with the terminology). And we never observed the duo getting actually spanked—or any other type of corporeal punishment—besides the wrist swatting. Nowadays, there are many lines of thought on how children grow, learning as they mature, and how discipline affects them during formative years—so some of these techniques (with the exception of time out) are frowned upon today. But I’m willing to bet that on Earth-Mayer, Sugar and Spike both grew up okay and didn’t end up abusing their kids. They probably even appreciate having had limits placed on them—even if many times they didn’t always understand why they were disciplined. In fact, that makes me recall another couple of panels where Sugar drops some stuff and her mom swats her wrist; the next panel, the cat does the exact same thing 52-B

and Sugar presents the cat’s paw for the swat. Classic example of a child realizing that no matter what they do they’re gonna be blamed for it anyway! I created a website in 1996: <http://home.earthlink.net/~beej_martin/ SandSMain.html> and it features a complete color cover gallery, and some rare Sheldon Mayer art. The site has so far received over 2,000 visitors, and this has created two email list groups actively discussing Sheldon Mayer and his wondrous characters. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting a large group of Mayer fans over the Internet who are fun, knowledgeable and sharing. I’ve learned a lot in our exchanges and we’ve shared collections as well. I’ve been working to extensively revamp the site but even as you look at the site today, it is so sweet and wonderful to view the guestbook, reading the many visitors’ comments on what Sugar & Spike means to them, the title obviously striking an emotional chord across many countries and generations. And I’m grateful to have been a conduit to that. It amazes me how many folks remember the series and retain fond memories. One of my favorite entries was from a gentleman who said that he and his brother loved the comic and still leave baby-talk messages on each other’s answering machines. To me, that shows the lasting love a family shared over a comic that was crafted with such special care. Through eBay and my website, I’ve also met even more Sugar & Spike fans who have shared their comics with me even as we’ve battled over the same rare comic online auctions. It amazes me that the time-honored fandom feeling still exists even among those separated by so many miles, but again Sugar & Spike brings us together! I feel that Sugar and Spike and their little lessons for life live on every day in the child within all of us; to all of us a hearty “Glx Sptzl Glaah!” (Now if I could figure out how to locate the Mayer home movie Shelly mentioned as his original inspiration for Sugar & Spike…) My thanks to: Jon Ingersoll for sharing his collection; Eric Gimlin for being a sweetie and selling his coverless S&S #1; Don Mangus for his knowledge and exhaustive Mayer timeline; Bob Heer and his great Mayer website (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/ Dimension/1428 mayer.htm); Bob Cherry and his fun S&S merchandise; Neil McNeil, my honorable eBay competitor and trader of S&S issues; plus Bill Alger who is just a plain sweetie, and Jon B. Cooke for inviting me to share some memories with you folks.—BM COMIC BOOK ARTIST 11

Jan. 2001

C o l l e c t o r

The JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR magazine (edited by JOHN MORROW) celebrates the life and career of the “King” of comics through INTERNS VIEWS WITH KIRBY and EDITIO BLE A IL his contemporaries, AVA NLY FEATURE ARTICLES, FOR O $3.95 RARE AND UNSEEN $1.95— KIRBY ART, plus regular columns by MARK EVANIER and others, and presentation of KIRBY’S UNINKED PENCILS from the 1960s-80s (from photocopies preserved in the KIRBY ARCHIVES).

DIGITAL

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #35

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #33

FIRST TABLOID-SIZE ISSUE! MARK EVANIER’s new column, interviews with KURT BUSIEK and JOSÉ LADRONN, NEAL ADAMS on Kirby, Giant-Man overview, Kirby’s best 2-page spreads, 2000 Kirby Tribute Panel (MARK EVANIER, GENE COLAN, MARIE SEVERIN, ROY THOMAS, and TRACY & JEREMY KIRBY), huge Kirby pencils! Wraparound KIRBY/ADAMS cover!

KIRBY’S LEAST-KNOWN WORK! MARK EVANIER on the Fourth World, unfinished THE HORDE novel, long-lost KIRBY INTERVIEW from France, update to the KIRBY CHECKLIST, pencil gallery of Kirby’s leastknown work (including THE PRISONER, BLACK HOLE, IN THE DAYS OF THE MOB, TRUE DIVORCE CASES), westerns, and more! KIRBY/LADRONN cover!

FANTASTIC FOUR ISSUE! Gallery of FF pencils at tabloid size, MARK EVANIER on the FF Cartoon series, interviews with STAN LEE and ERIK LARSEN, JOE SINNOTT salute, the HUMAN TORCH in STRANGE TALES, origins of Kirby Krackle, interviews with nearly EVERY WRITER AND ARTIST who worked on the FF after Kirby, & more! KIRBY/LARSEN and KIRBY/TIMM covers!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #36

KIRBY COLLECTOR #37

KIRBY COLLECTOR #38

FIGHTING AMERICANS! MARK EVANIER on 1960s Marvel inkers, SHIELD, Losers, and Green Arrow overviews, INFANTINO interview on Simon & Kirby, KIRBY interview, Captain America PENCIL ART GALLERY, PHILIPPE DRUILLET interview, JOE SIMON and ALEX TOTH speak, unseen BIG GAME HUNTER and YOUNG ABE LINCOLN Kirby concepts! KIRBY and KIRBY/TOTH covers!

GREAT ESCAPES! MISTER MIRACLE pencil art gallery, MARK EVANIER, MARSHALL ROGERS & MICHAEL CHABON interviews, comparing Kirby and Houdini’s backgrounds, analysis of “Himon,” 2001 Kirby Tribute Panel (WILL EISNER, JOHN BUSCEMA, JOHN ROMITA, MIKE ROYER, & JOHNNY CARSON) & more! KIRBY/MARSHALL ROGERS and KIRBY/STEVE RUDE covers!

THOR ISSUE! Never-seen KIRBY interview, JOE SINNOTT and JOHN ROMITA JR. on their Thor work, MARK EVANIER, extensive THOR and TALES OF ASGARD coverage, a look at the “real” Norse gods, 40 pages of KIRBY THOR PENCILS, including a Kirby Art Gallery at TABLOID SIZE, with pin-ups, covers, and more! KIRBY covers inked by MIKE ROYER and TREVOR VON EEDEN!

“HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE KIRBY WAY!” MIKE ROYER interview on how he inks Jack’s work, HUGE GALLERY tracing the evolution of Jack’s style, new column on OBSCURE KIRBY WORK, MARK EVANIER, special sections on Jack’s TECHNIQUE AND INFLUENCES, comparing STAN LEE’s writing to JACK’s, and more! Two COLOR UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS!

“HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE KIRBY WAY!” PART 2: JOE SINNOTT on how he inks Jack’s work, HUGE PENCIL GALLERY, list of the art in the KIRBY ARCHIVES, MARK EVANIER, special sections on Jack’s technique and influences, SPEND A DAY WITH KIRBY (with JACK DAVIS, GULACY, HERNANDEZ BROS., and RUDE) and more! Two UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #39

KIRBY COLLECTOR #40

KIRBY COLLECTOR #41

KIRBY COLLECTOR #42

KIRBY COLLECTOR #43

FAN FAVORITES! Covering Kirby’s work on HULK, INHUMANS, and SILVER SURFER, TOP PROS pick favorite Kirby covers, Kirby ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT interview, MARK EVANIER, 2002 Kirby Tribute Panel (DICK AYERS, TODD McFARLANE, PAUL LEVITZ, HERB TRIMPE), pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by MIKE ALLRED and P. CRAIG RUSSELL!

WORLD THAT’S COMING! KAMANDI and OMAC spotlight, 2003 Kirby Tribute Panel (WENDY PINI, MICHAEL CHABON, STAN GOLDBERG, SAL BUSCEMA, LARRY LIEBER, and STAN LEE), P. CRAIG RUSSELL interview, MARK EVANIER, NEW COLUMN analyzing Jack’s visual shorthand, pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by ERIK LARSEN and REEDMAN!

1970s MARVEL WORK! Coverage of ’70s work from Captain America to Eternals to Machine Man, DICK GIORDANO & MARK SHULTZ interviews, MARK EVANIER, 2004 Kirby Tribute Panel (STEVE RUDE, DAVE GIBBONS, WALTER SIMONSON, and PAUL RYAN), pencil art gallery, unused 1962 HULK #6 KIRBY PENCILS, and more! Kirby covers inked by GIORDANO and SCHULTZ!

1970s DC WORK! Coverage of Jimmy Olsen, FF movie set visit, overview of all Newsboy Legion stories, KEVIN NOWLAN and MURPHY ANDERSON on inking Jack, never-seen interview with Kirby, MARK EVANIER on Kirby’s covers, Bongo Comics’ Kirby ties, complete ’40s gangster story, pencil art gallery, and more! Kirby covers inked by NOWLAN and ANDERSON!

KIRBY AWARD WINNERS! STEVE SHERMAN and others sharing memories and neverseen art from JACK & ROZ, a never-published 1966 interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER on VINCE COLLETTA, pencils-toSinnott inks comparison of TALES OF SUSPENSE #93, and more! Covers by KIRBY (Jack’s original ’70s SILVER STAR CONCEPT ART) and KIRBY/SINNOTT!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #44

KIRBY COLLECTOR #45

KIRBY COLLECTOR #46

KIRBY COLLECTOR #47

KIRBY COLLECTOR #48

KIRBY’S MYTHOLOGICAL CHARACTERS! Coverage of DEMON, THOR, & GALACTUS, interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER, pencil art galleries of the Demon and other mythological characters, two never-reprinted BLACK MAGIC stories, interview with Kirby Award winner DAVID SCHWARTZ and F4 screenwriter MIKE FRANCE, and more! Kirby cover inked by MATT WAGNER!

Jack’s vision of PAST AND FUTURE, with a never-seen KIRBY interview, a new interview with son NEAL KIRBY, MARK EVANIER’S column, two pencil galleries, two complete ’50s stories, Jack’s first script, Kirby Tribute Panel (with EVANIER, KATZ, SHAW!, and SHERMAN), plus an unpublished CAPTAIN 3-D cover, inked by BILL BLACK and converted into 3-D by RAY ZONE!

Focus on NEW GODS, FOREVER PEOPLE, and DARKSEID! Includes a rare interview with KIRBY, MARK EVANIER’s column, FOURTH WORLD pencil art galleries (including Kirby’s redesigns for SUPER POWERS), two 1950s stories, a new Kirby Darkseid front cover inked by MIKE ROYER, a Kirby Forever People back cover inked by JOHN BYRNE, and more!

KIRBY’S SUPER TEAMS, from kid gangs and the Challengers, to Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Super Powers, with unseen 1960s Marvel art, a rare KIRBY interview, MARK EVANIER’s column, two pencil art galleries, complete 1950s story, author JONATHAN LETHEM on his Kirby influence, interview with JOHN ROMITA, JR. on his Eternals work, and more!

KIRBYTECH ISSUE, spotlighting Jack’s hightech concepts, from Iron Man’s armor and Machine Man, to the Negative Zone and beyond! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, MARK EVANIER’s column, two pencil art galleries, complete 1950s story, TOM SCIOLI interview, Kirby Tribute Panel (with ADAMS, PÉREZ, and ROMITA), and covers inked by TERRY AUSTIN and TOM SCIOLI!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #49

KIRBY COLLECTOR #51

KIRBY COLLECTOR #52

WARRIORS, spotlighting Thor (with a look at hidden messages in BILL EVERETT’s Thor inks), Sgt. Fury, Challengers of the Unknown, Losers, and others! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, interviews with JERRY ORDWAY and GRANT MORRISON, MARK EVANIER’s column, pencil art gallery, a complete 1950s story, wraparound Thor cover inked by JERRY ORDWAY, and more!

Bombastic EVERYTHING GOES issue, with a wealth of great submissions that couldn’t be pigeonholed into a “theme” issue! Includes a rare KIRBY interview, new interviews with JIM LEE and ADAM HUGHES, MARK EVANIER’s column, huge pencil art galleries, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, two COLOR UNPUBLISHED KIRBY COVERS, and more!

Spotlights Kirby’s most obscure work: an UNUSED THOR STORY, BRUCE LEE comic, animation work, stage play, unaltered pages from KAMANDI, DEMON, DESTROYER DUCK, and more, including a feature examining the last page of his final issue of various series BEFORE EDITORIAL TAMPERING (with lots of surprises)! Color Kirby cover inked by DON HECK!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $9.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #55

KIRBY COLLECTOR #56

KIRBY COLLECTOR #57

KIRBY COLLECTOR #53

KIRBY COLLECTOR #54

THE MAGIC OF STAN & JACK! New interview with STAN LEE, walking tour of New York where Lee & Kirby lived and worked, re-evaluation of the “Lost” FF #108 story (including a new page that just surfaced), “What If Jack Hadn’t Left Marvel In 1970?,” plus MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, and more, behind a color Kirby cover inked by GEORGE PÉREZ!

STAN & JACK PART TWO! More on the co-creators of the Marvel Universe, final interview (and cover inks) by GEORGE TUSKA, differences between KIRBY and DITKO’S approaches, WILL MURRAY on the origin of the FF, the mystery of Marvel cover dates, MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, and more, plus Kirby back cover inked by JOE SINNOTT!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

KIRBY COLLECTOR #59

KIRBY COLLECTOR #60

“Kirby Goes To Hollywood!” SERGIO ARAGONÉS and MELL LAZARUS recall Kirby’s BOB NEWHART TV show cameo, comparing the recent STAR WARS films to New Gods, RUBY & SPEARS interviewed, Jack’s encounters with FRANK ZAPPA, PAUL McCARTNEY, and JOHN LENNON, MARK EVANIER’s regular column, a Kirby pencil art gallery, a Golden Age Kirby story, and more! Kirby cover inked by PAUL SMITH!

“Unfinished Sagas”—series, stories, and arcs Kirby never finished. TRUE DIVORCE CASES, RAAM THE MAN MOUNTAIN, KOBRA, DINGBATS, a complete story from SOUL LOVE, complete Boy Explorers story, two Kirby Tribute Panels, MARK EVANIER and other regular columnists, pencil art galleries, and more, with Kirby’s “Galaxy Green” cover inked by ROYER, and the unseen cover for SOUL LOVE #1!

“Legendary Kirby”—how Jack put his spin on classic folklore! TONY ISABELLA on SATAN’S SIX (with Kirby’s unseen layouts), Biblical inspirations of DEVIL DINOSAUR, THOR through the eyes of mythologist JOSEPH CAMPBELL, a complete Golden Age Kirby story, rare Kirby interview, MARK EVANIER and our other regular columnists, pencil art from ETERNALS, DEMON, NEW GODS, THOR, and Jack’s ATLAS cover!

“Kirby Vault!” Rarities from the “King” of comics: Personal correspondence, private photos, collages, rare Marvelmania art, bootleg album covers, sketches, transcript of a 1969 VISIT TO THE KIRBY HOME (where Jack answers the questions YOU’D ask in ‘69), MARK EVANIER, pencil art from the FOURTH WORLD, CAPTAIN AMERICA, MACHINE MAN, SILVER SURFER GRAPHIC NOVEL, and more!

FANTASTIC FOUR FOLLOW-UP to #58’s THE WONDER YEARS! Never-seen FF wraparound cover, interview between FF inkers JOE SINNOTT and DICK AYERS, rare LEE & KIRBY interview, comparison of a Jack and Stan FF story conference to Stan’s final script and Jack’s penciled pages, MARK EVANIER and other columnists, gallery of KIRBY FF ART, pencils from BLACK PANTHER, SILVER SURFER, & more!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

(104-page magazine with COLOR) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95

COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOLUMES, edited by John Morrow Each book contains over 30 PIECES OF KIRBY ART NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED!

VOLUME 2

VOLUME 3

VOLUME 5

VOLUME 6

VOLUME 7

KIRBY CHECKLIST

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #10-12, and a tour of Jack’s home!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #13-15, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #20-22, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #23-26, plus new art!

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #27-30, plus new art!

Lists EVERY KIRBY COMIC, BOOK, UNPUBLISHED WORK and more!

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(176-page trade paperback) $19.95 ISBN: 9781893905023 Diamond Order Code: APR043058

(224-page trade paperback) $24.95 ISBN: 9781893905573 Diamond Order Code: FEB063353

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490038 Diamond Order Code: JUN084280

(288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490120 Diamond Order Code: DEC084286

(128-page trade paperback) $14.95 (Digital Edition) $4.95 ISBN: 9781605490052 Diamond Order Code: MAR084008

NEW!

Lee & Kirby: THE WONDER YEARS

Celebrate the 50th ANNIVERSARY OF FANTASTIC FOUR #1 with this special squarebound edition (#58) of THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR, about two pop-culture visionaries who created the Fantastic Four, and a decade in comics that was more tumultuous and awe-inspiring than any before or since. Calling on his years of research, plus new interviews conducted just for this book (with STAN LEE, FLO STEINBERG, MARK EVANIER, JOE SINNOTT, and others), regular Jack Kirby Collector contributor MARK ALEXANDER traces both Lee and Kirby’s history at Marvel Comics, and the remarkable series of events and career choices that led them to converge in 1961 to conceive the Fantastic Four. It also documents the evolution of the FF throughout the 1960s, with previously unknown details about Lee and Kirby’s working relationship, and their eventual parting of ways in 1970. With a wealth of historical information and amazing Kirby artwork, STAN LEE & JACK KIRBY: THE WONDER YEARS beautifully examines the first decade of the FF, and the events that put into motion the 1960s era that came to be known as the Marvel Age of Comics! (128-page tabloid-size trade paperback) $19.95 • (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781605490380 • Diamond Order Code: SEP111248

NEW!

SILVER STAR: GRAPHITE EDITION

First conceptualized in the 1970s as a movie screenplay, SILVER STAR was too far ahead of its time for Hollywood, so artist JACK KIRBY adapted it as a six-issue mini-series for Pacific Comics in the 1980s, making it his final, great comics series. Now the entire six-issue run is collected here, reproduced from his powerful, uninked PENCIL ART, showing Kirby’s work in its undiluted, raw form! Also included is Kirby’s ILLUSTRATED SILVER STAR MOVIE SCREENPLAY, never-seen SKETCHES, PIN-UPS, and an historical overview to put it all in perspective!

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR SPECIAL EDITION

(160-page trade paperback) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781893905559 Diamond Order Code: JAN063367

CAPTAIN VICTORY: GRAPHITE EDITION

Compiles the “extra” new material from COLLECTED JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR VOLUMES 1-7, in one huge Digital Edition! Includes a fan’s private tour of the Kirbys’ remarkable home, profusely illustrated with photos, and more than 200 pieces of Kirby art not published outside of those volumes. If you already own the individual issues and skipped the collections, or missed them in print form, now you can get caught up!

For the first time, JACK KIRBY’s original CAPTAIN VICTORY GRAPHIC NOVEL is presented as it was created in 1975 (before being broken up and modified for the 1980s Pacific Comics series), reproduced from copies of Kirby’s uninked pencil art! This first “new” Kirby comic in years features page after page of prime pencils, and includes Jack’s unused CAPTAIN VICTORY SCREENPLAY, unseen art, an historical overview to put it in perspective, and more! (52-page comic book) $5.95 • (Digital Edition) $2.95

(120-page Digital Edition) $4.95

NOTE: THIS IS ISSUE #58 OF THE KIRBY COLLECTOR!

KIRBY FIVE-OH! CELEBRATING 50 YEARS OF THE “KING” OF COMICS

For its 50th issue, the publication that started TwoMorrows presents KIRBY FIVE-OH!, a BOOK covering the best of everything from Kirby’s 50-year career in comics! The regular KIRBY COLLECTOR columnists have formed a distinguished panel of experts to choose and examine: The BEST KIRBY STORY published each year from 1938-1987! The BEST COVERS from each decade! Jack’s 50 BEST UNUSED PIECES OF ART! His 50 BEST CHARACTER DESIGNS! And profiles of, and commentary by, the 50 PEOPLE MOST INFLUENCED BY KIRBY’S WORK! Plus there’s a 50-PAGE GALLERY of Kirby’s powerful RAW PENCIL ART, and a DELUXE COLOR SECTION of photos and finished art from throughout his entire half-century oeuvre. This TABLOID-SIZED TRADE PAPERBACK features a previously unseen Kirby Superman cover inked by “DC: The New Frontier” artist DARWYN COOKE, and an introduction by MARK EVANIER, helping make this the ultimate retrospective on the career of the “King” of comics! Takes the place of JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #50. (168-page tabloid-size trade paperback) $19.95 • (Digital Edition) $5.95 ISBN: 9781893905894 Diamond Order Code: FEB084186

NOTE: THIS IS ISSUE #50 OF THE KIRBY COLLECTOR!

KIRBY UNLEASHED (REMASTERED)

Reprinting the fabled 1971 KIRBY UNLEASHED PORTFOLIO, completely remastered! Spotlights some of KIRBY’s finest art from all eras of his career, including 1930s pencil work, unused strips, illustrated World War II letters, 1950s pages, unpublished 1960s Marvel pencil pages and sketches, and Fourth World pencil art (done expressly for this portfolio in 1970)! We’ve gone back to the original art to ensure the best reproduction possible, and MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN have updated the Kirby biography from the original printing, and added a new Foreword explaining how this portfolio came to be! PLUS: We’ve recolored the original color plates, and added EIGHT NEW BLACK-&-WHITE PAGES, plus EIGHT NEW COLOR PAGES, including Jack’s four GODS posters (released separately in 1972), and four extra Kirby color pieces, all at tabloid size! (60-page tabloid with COLOR) SOLD OUT • (Digital Edition) $5.95

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