Talking About Having Trouble Talking
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(Conversations) Introduction ............................................................................................ (1) Alice on Autism ..............................................................................(3—12) Ellen on Dyslexia .........................................................................(13—24) Emily on Asperger’s ....................................................................(25—34) Gio on Translation .....................................................................(35—46) Julie on Ageing .............................................................................(47—56) Tom on Writing ...........................................................................(57—64) Zak on Introversion ....................................................................(65—72)
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Talking to the people who find it hard to talk
This publication maps my meetings and conversations with friends and new friends alike, in my endeavour to understand the people that we usually hear less of. This arose from looking into the act of connecting and how important it is, and consequently as a thing that most socially adept people take for granted. I consider myself to be introverted; I very much like my own company, take a lot of time thinking before I speak, frequently have conversations in my own head and prefer to work in a quiet space. I’ve since noticed that a lot of my friends also express these qualities, which I suppose is very natural. Since looking into the subject, I’ve found that I’ve been able to empathise with people a lot more, and really appreciate the act of sitting down for an in-depth conversation about a serious subject— without meandering through small talk first. This publication often involves both sides of the conversation to map my own growing understanding and comparisons. All conversations happened on a one-to-one basis— usually with a warm drink and a dictaphone on the table. They generally lasted about half an hour, with variances in digression and common interests.
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Introduction
Autism
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I met Alice online, and we chatted for a little while before I asked if she would be up for meeting up and talking about her Autism. She said that she was open and willing to talk about anything, which is good. We met in a café at a strategically timed 2pm (less traffic, post-lunchtime rush), and had a long chat. I myself was nervous to meet someone from the first time who may have problems socially — I can’t imagine what it was like for her. But we had quite a lot in common and consequently talked about more than just Autism. I initially had to work quite hard at conversation but it soon became more natural.
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Could you tell me a little bit about when you were first diagnosed? I was diagnosed when I was thirteen. And it was quite nice ‘cause it gave clarity as to why I was so different and that I wasn’t some kind of… weird freak. But then when I interacted with other autistics I seen less and less autism in me, and I panicked a bit thinking that I had been diagnosed wrongly. It wasn’t until I actually went to college that I actually started learning more about autism— which isn’t the normal thing to happen— but I actually started to see it in myself.
What was it about other people with autism, did you just seem to be not quite similar, or did you have different habits, or…? Not exactly sure, everything in them that was different to me I saw, and I didn’t see the similarities.
So when you were diagnosed did you try and meet other people with autism? No, not really. The school I was in got me moved to an autism... not school, but a little area by the side of the school which integrated autism with the mainstream school.
How was that, any better? Yeah. I didn’t think the staff completely understood. One of the classic things of autism is displaying the wrong emotions, so… You know when something really, really sad happens; they burst into fits of laughter- the same thing can happen on a much lower scale. So my friend heard of some child who had been stabbed, and he burst into fits, and the teacher started telling him off, although they’re supposed to be specialists in the field.
Yeah, that’s really hard…
Alice on Autism
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When you were diagnosed, did anything else happen around that which people did to try and adapt, like your parents for example? My grandmother was the most odd because she got books on it and started reading up on it. My parents tried to adapt and learn about it.
So is it not in your family at all? No, it’s not known, anyway.
In other educational places you’ve been, how has it been there? It’s been a lot better since I’ve left school. I had one-toone support in college to help with assignments, so I wouldn’t do anything really, really stupid that would make people hate me.
In terms of online or offline things, do you find either one easier to negotiate? Online is definitely easier, because there’s less emotion in there. It’s more easily put across emotion, as well.
Do you find it easier to read things and have time to think about them? Yeah, you can read it over and over again and get a full understanding before replying, whereas in person it’s immediate.
When it comes to meeting someone new, how do you kind of… Is it a problem? I mean, I just met you, but I’ve been completely anxious. I start to get anxious several days before and my anxiety keeps building until just before the day, until I’m completely freaking out, and then it happens and everything’s okay. But then I’m tired for days after, because the anxiety has used up all my energy.
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Café / Peppermint Tea
It gave clarity as to why I was so different and that I wasn’t some kind of‌
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weird freak (
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Is there anything you do around that? I suppose if you know you’re going to be really tired afterwards it’s kind of… planning the day and having naps or something. Yeah, normally. I do that quite a lot actually.
Do you find talking online before meeting somebody in person is a bit easier? Yeah I suppose so ‘cause you can get to know them before you meet them. I find it difficult with small talk online because a lot of people inherently don’t like silence, so they talk and ask questions, and I kind of accept that. In college it took about three or four weeks for me to actually talk to anyone. And then after about a year they forget that I spent ages before I talked to them.
So I suppose in that way do you find group things quite difficult?
Yeah.
So say you were in a class would you try and talk to one person? I normally wait for them to talk to me. You develop ways of coping.
How did you find getting into your volunteering and stuff like that— was it easy? It was difficult at first, but luckily the person who was managing the animal care team saw my application and changed things around. Because I chose the resident animals which stays more relaxed and calm. But what I didn’t know was that I’d have to use the main kitchen, which gets very loud and crowded. So the manager saw that and thought, ‘that’s quite stupid’ and moved me to the area that can get quite busy at times, but stays more consistent and is very relaxed and calm.
Alice on Autism
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I personally hate phone calls and stuff… Oh god, yeah. I avoid them if possible. I’m better with people phoning me rather than me phoning them. It takes me three or four days to prep myself up to make a phone call, particularly if it’s something like the bank. At least afterwards you can feel proud that you managed.
Are you part of any groups? I went once, but then I moved away from there. And that was only because my girlfriend at the time was autistic and also went to the group.
Would it be something you’d consider doing again? Probably not. Because it’s the going there the first time that’s the most difficult part. When I went with her at least she was there, and she even made the effort to be early, and she’s usually late.
Were your brother and sister affected at all by you being diagnosed? My brother— he always says that he never has been. But my sister— she’s always been a massive attention seeker— she always claimed that it affected her. More than me. The funny thing is, even though I’m autistic, I can read people even better than she can. If someone were stabbed, then it would always affect her more than the person who was stabbed. She’s one of those people who has to be popular with absolutely everyone; even if they hate her, she’s got to be friends with them. She’s the complete opposite to me.
…I don’t have many friends in the local area.
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Café / Peppermint Tea
Dsylexia
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I arranged a chat with my friend Ellen, who’s dyslexic. Like myself she’s reasonably introverted, and I thought it’d be really interesting to look at someone who has trouble expressing themselves in this way since I feel I would struggle more without my ability to fall back on my confidence in the written word. We spend a lot of time in each other’s company within university, but it was good to sit down and talk about a subject I find it hard to get my head around. Besides the obvious issues like spelling, I rarely consider the other implications of dyslexia.
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When did you realise you struggled with reading and writing? I don’t think I did, I just never did read. My mum had argued for years and the teacher just said I was a slow learner. When I got to year 5, everyone else was on the challenging books and that’s when I noticed that it felt different. I was reading books for babies
So you felt the change? Everyone else had grown up and was reading The Hobbit and that.
But you still weren’t diagnosed? Not till year 5. But my mum had to fight to get it diagnosed. They thought I was acting less able.
That’s so weird, imagine that… I read The Hobbit in year 6 because my Asperger’s friend read it, and I remember being told that I wasn’t allowed to read it. It took me six months to read it, and I had to miss the last two chapters ‘cause I had to take it back. I wouldn’t even attempt Harry Potter.
So it obviously affected you from a young age? Yeah. I’ve had arguments with friends about it; they said it’s a defect in the brain but it’s not, it’s just differently connected.
So when your teachers noticed, what did they start to do around that? I went out of classes on Wednesday afternoon ‘cause I couldn’t do the alphabet till Year 6. In secondary school I was meant to get a day plan. I got extra time in exams and I was put in a different room— there were 6 of us— people who needed more time. I needed to use a computer ‘cause I can type faster that I write. Halfway through exams I’d be allowed to leave. I was given a time out card during lessons. Naughty kids had it as well. I misbehaved more because I found it harder.
I suppose it’s almost like, I’m not listening, so…
Ellen on Dyslexia
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Café / Tea
I miss points because I’m thinking…
Ellen on Dyslexia
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By the time I’ve thought about something to say the conversation had moved on‌
Is this ever an issue in an online context? In anything that I write, I get someone to double check. I’ve letterpressed the word ‘favour’ 5 times, so I text my friend like 5 times, and I write it how I write it and then she send sit back how it’s written. I used to forward messages to my mum and then she would message me back with it easier to understand, and then I reply to it, and then she’ll send me a version that makes more sense. She says I phrase sentences wrong, like a foreign person writing English. She said she had to change the whole paragraph system. I never learnt where full stops needed to go, so I go on forever. In year eight, every 12 words I would put a full stop, and every 4 lines I’d put a paragraph. So yeah, I still don’t fully understand, it’s weird.
I think I find it weird because it’s something I take for granted… Do you find it effects they way you talk in any way? When you talk you can go back on yourself. So do you find sentence structuring tough? My Nan says I mumble more when I’m talking about things that are a big thing because my head’s moving at different speeds.
Do you find you speak before you speak a lot? Yeah, a lot. I miss points because I’m thinking. By the time I’ve thought about something to say the conversation had moved on. And when I was younger I would just say it and people would be like ‘we’ve finished that conversation!’ I think that’s now why I listen more than I talk in group things.
Have you ever accidentally ever offended anyone? Oh yeah I do it all the time. I think that’s why I don’t like Facebook because what I write doesn’t come out in the right context. I used to have loads of arguments where I didn’t phrase it properly. Talking face-to-face works better.
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Ellen on Dyslexia
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I would just say it, and people would be like “we’ve finished that conversation!”
Online things can be interpreted in any way. I often try to work out when to use a full stop, or wonder if using a full stop makes me sound stand-offish. I only use smiley faces when I’m talking to people I don’t know. It’s really hard to balance, so I can imagine that can be really hard. I read it like 4 times to make sure it makes sense. I have a tendency to just miss stuff out.
When I’m writing something I spend quite a lot of time on the order of it. My friend who is introverted relies on writing to speak to people because he’s got that time to think about it, if you know what I mean. I think it’s just harder for people. And he’s actually dyslexic too. Sometimes he spells things wrong and I just let it slip because I know he doesn’t know. It’s like knowing when to be a dick about spelling and stuff. Has there ever been a time in the past when people have been a dick about your spelling? I think people have when people don’t know I’m dyslexic. But I think it’s not something that bothers me because I know it’s something that I’m never gonna be good at. If it’s something that I can’t improve then why should it offend me? I’d rather people tell me it’s wrong. I’m trying to learn the different ‘there’s’ at the minute. I used to use the T-HE-I-R one for everything.
That’s funny, ‘cause I would use the T-H-E-R-E one. I used to think it just looked more proper.
Maybe it’s the I… That must be really weird to be dyslexic and work with letterpress and type and everything. I can’t imagine it. I do loads of rough ones. I just ask people if it’s wrong. I think it’s just getting better at things.
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The difference between reading and talking... you have to be more careful when you’re writing and get it right first time. Yeah, there’s no physical evidence when you talk.
The thing is to recognise what you’re having a problem is and try to solve it. Yeah, ‘cause you won’t get through life by blaming it. I think with dyslexia you’re really introverted or the complete opposite. My sister’s really loud and she used to get told off for being loud ‘cause she used to do that to compensate, whereas I tried to avoid attention because of it; she got attention in a different way.
Do you have any problems with social cues? Sometimes I don’t know when to talk. I always think ‘should I talk now?’
I think it’s just that pre-thought thing though. I think that might just be an introverted thing.. It could also be influenced by dyslexia. I’m not worried about what I’m saying but I’m worried about when. I wait for the exact right moment. I do that with basically everything, I wait until something comes up. And I have a lot of conversations in my head, and I can’t remember whether or not they’ve happened. And when it does happen, it usually works out the way I imagined it.
Ellen on Dyslexia
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I think that’s why I listen more than I talk
Asperger’s
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I arranged a chat with my friend Emily whose brother, James, was diagnosed with Asperger’s at the age of 15. It was really good to talk to her about it, since it was something I didn’t know very much about, and now find I’m able to empathise more and also learn new things about my friend. It’s interesting to consider the impacts on her family, since she’s a twin with another brother, so there’s an entirely different dynamic among them. For Emily, I didn’t meet up with any tailored questions and basically just let her talk about anything she thought may be relevant.
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In his teens, he felt like because he was going through puberty, Asperger’s just felt as though it wasn’t a thing because he already didn’t know who he was... I wouldn’t say he had necessarily accepted it now.
In the past he got bullied a lot, and talks a lot about feeling invisible. He used to just hide away, come home from school and just shut himself away. There were years when you would just barely see him. I think he was quite bitter at the time. He has big issues with the way my parents have handled the way that he deals with things. My parents didn’t know anything about it until it was kind of too late. I think he thinks he’s had a worse deal than everyone else— he doesn’t bear in mind other people’s situations so much.
He’s really independent but doesn’t really have any friends. Not people that he would go to about his problems.
Emily on Asperger’s
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You’d be able to tell he was nervous and shy, but he now has the confidence to jump in and make conversation. But people can tell he’s just not comfortable with the situation. There have been certain situations in public where he’s almost made a scene, since he doesn’t know how to react- even in private. I want him to react however he wants to react. People do stop and stare.
He’s very cautious with new people, and would prefer to live on his own, which is understandable but quite sad.
Recently he’s been talking about ever having a girlfriend. A few years ago he used to say he looked forward to having a girlfriend. But now he says ‘it’s okay not to’ and feels he doesn’t need it. There was one girl he liked, but he just came across as a bit of a stalker and he would just linger by her.
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Café / Peppermint tea
He used to just hide away
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Come home from school and just shut himself away (
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There are certain social norms that he doesn’t follow- he’s just not really aware of stuff like that. But if someone’s got a problem with it, it’s their problem. He just gets on with it. He knows that if he gets wound up that he needs to go for a walk or sit in the car for a while and chill. He’s very sensible.
Sometimes when he’s talking about his problems, I have to say ‘I can’t relate to anything you’re saying at all’, which is heartbreaking.
He’s learnt how to cope with certain situations through watching TV. Like, if I’m upset he’ll put his arm around me, rub my back and say “it’s okay, do you want a cup of tea?”. I’m not sure that he can really relate to the situation. He also recently learnt the ‘social nod’. He picks up on quite a few things socially and kind of tries to fit in.
When he’s leaving, he says ‘I’m just going out’, but we want him to interact with us because we want to know what’s going on in his life. He has mentioned in the past about keeping things separate. Because all of us have seen the way he’s been, we’ve got fixed assumptions and ideas about how he is, which is why he wouldn’t want us to meet his friends. I don’t think he wants to combine the two. They might assume things from certain things that I assume about him.
He’s definitely not interested in meeting anyone with Asperger’s now. He’s very aware of being categorised as someone with Asperger’s. James possibly might not struggle as others. If he met someone who wasn’t as aware of things as him- he would want to distance himself from that.
Emily on Asperger’s
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James is very much ‘sit down and speak about your feelings’. I could sit down and start talking about the news and it could quite easily go back to how he was bullied in school. He very much goes off on one. He just works through everything. He zones out and stares away from you and just talks. You can get away with just being like ‘yeah, okay’. He gets very excited about what he’s talking about; he doesn’t need a response from anyone- he just talks. But he seems pretty cheerful speaking about whatever he’s speaking about.
He always wants to talk about arguments. I’ve had to stop him and say to James, ‘This is not fair on Tom (Emily’s twin brother)’. I think he’s really struggled with that. When James is upset, saying that sort of thing can go anywhere. ‘I can’t listen to what you’re upset about’.
James is a really good listener. Because James is quite intelligent, he knows about a lot more things, so even if you had nothing in common James would have something to input that. If he didn’t have that he would struggle. The way he analysis things is good socially, but he’s not often presented with the opportunity to do that.
He’s been more aware of fashion recently. He doesn’t want to dress like everyone else. He saw himself as just blending in at school, and now he wants to stand out. I think he wants to get a waistcoat and things like that and he definitely wants to be different. He wants something that can signify a specific interest on his shirts to someone else as a way of communicating. I also think he wanted a niche job so that it makes him stand out.
It’s quite hard to live with. Seeing James’ struggle, and even our struggles to try and work with James... it has been really hard.
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Translation
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Gio is someone from my course who responded to a message I had put out regarding talking to someone of whom English isn’t their first language. We hadn’t really spoken before, so it was quite nice to engage in a bit of small talk but then talk about the really interesting stuff quite quickly. Gio had moved to England at 19 which really put things in perspective since I am 21 and can only speak one language.
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I don’t know anything about where you’re from or anything… Okay, so I’m from Italy, I moved here at 19. I finished high school in Italy and moved here straight away. It was really hard in the beginning. Because you do study English in Italy, in school, but it’s really sort of… depends on the table. You learn how to construct really basic sentence but you have no way to hear about the language, basically.
I suppose the people teaching you are probably Italian as well… It was like learning the rules but not knowing how to put them in a sentence. I had to basically relearn everything, because I knew the rules, but when you speak to people, they don’t really follow the rules. And if you do follow the rules, you end up making useless sentences and people end up getting bored, and I still have that problem. You don’t need to explain the whole thing; you just need a couple of words.
Say you’re telling a story, you kind of over tell the story? Is that because of sentence structure? Yeah, and I have this thing where I think I need to explain something otherwise they won’t understand, but I think it’s just some kind of insecurity due to English not being my first language.
I knew a few people, who were friends of friends. I got a job in the very very East End, and so I had to learn, because I really didn’t understand anything people were telling me. The East London accent is really thick and they don’t pronounce the end of the sentence. I needed the money though, and needed to step up and learn quickly, but that’s the best way I think.
I know loads of Italians though, and get friends asking for help. I’ve seen many of them ending up in the all-Italian lifestyle, so they hang out with Italians, work with Italians- and they don’t really leave the country at all. I understand some people do it for the money, but I think if you move to a country you need to be curious and try to know people and culture.
Gio on Translation
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English is one language, but it’s tons of languages
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Do you try and hang out with people from England? Yeah, in the beginning I set my self this goal of never hanging out with Italians, like trying to get some real Londoners. I suppose you kind of learn by doing... yeah.
Do you find you still have a group of Italian friends?
It’s happened to me a few times, where people can’t figure out where you’re from from your accent. Like, so you’re South African? And people are expecting Italians to have a really Italian accent. I’ve been asked if I were Australian. People thought I was from some remote village in England. It’s really weird. It’s funny though. I really wanted to lose the Italian accent so I would pick up any TV programs in my room and I would just repeat any words they were saying. I’d be like ‘Yeah, you say it like that’ and people would just walk in. But that’s the best way to do it.
Gio on Translation
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Yeah. They’re using the right words, but their accent is so fucked up that you can’t understand what they’re saying. There’s one thing that Italians say that is really not true, but is a big misunderstanding: they say that the English is so posh that they pretend not to understand you. When really their language is so fucked up that they really don’t understand you. It is your fault; it’s not, and it is. It’s the education system’s fault, they don’t teach you.
I suppose it’s just the fact that everyone’s not used to all accents in the world.
There are some things to us, that sound weird, like how you position your mouth, and you feel really stupid doing it in the beginning. I think the best way to do it is copycatting people but not in a serious way in a funny way. I picked up some words like ‘awesome’ and my English friends started taking the piss like ’oh awesome’ and I was like ‘oh okay I’ll stop using that’ so I’ll cross that off. My friends were really taking the piss.
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Are there any English habits that you don’t understand? I don’t put milk in tea; I think it’s barbaric. Either you like tea or you drink something else. No sugar no milk, no lemon, no nothing. I like tea, I really like tea. Milk is one thing that’s really English. In other country’s they don’t do it.
What about you, is there anything you do that people don’t understand?
Is it something you’ve stopped doing? Yeah, especially with guys. I’ve been called a faggot quite a few times. You just don’t kiss a guy here. You can hug someone if you’re really good friends, that’s it.
Some people are a bit.., not even cold, but it’s like, when you know them their not cold at all. At first you have to keep your distance and give space and keep space. Which is something that’s quite hard because when you first meet someone and feel that they’re not comfortable with your behavior and you think they don’t like you. And it takes a while. Someone should just stop and tell you why, that’d be much easier.
Gio on Translation
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Italians in general do things that are considered quite rude by English. For example, we’re quite expansive. If I just met you, I would kiss you twice, or hug you.
I’d say that’s the opposite of rude. Yeah. But it’s considered ‘you’re invading my personal space and I don’t actually know you’.
Did you just think, why does nobody like me? Yeah, I mean, I got really lucky with girls in the beginning. English girls were really fascinated with the whole Italian thing. I think it was in the media so much. It’s a big misunderstanding or a cliché.
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There’s one thing that I found really funny, it’s a common thing that you think about English people that they like to complain a lot, but I actually think Italians complain more. English people complain, but they’re not really complaining. They’re just saying ‘yeah, how’s the weather, the weather’s shit, oh it’s raining again’.
It’s that small talk thing isn’t it. It doesn’t really matter. I kind of think maybe it’s a greeting thing, maybe it’s just typical to use that kind of complaint to be like—
— “Oh yeah we agree we’re on the same side”
— Yeah and it’s like “Oh how are you!”and you’re like “Oh you know, could be better”, yes, we have common ground. Maybe it’s making up for something.
Gio on Translation
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One thing I never understand, and I’ve asked many English people, and nobody knows why. It happens especially with guys, they go ‘hey, you alright?’ and I would reply ‘hey, you alright?’ and it makes no sense ‘cause I’m replying to a question with the same question and nobody’s answering. I have no idea how it started...
I think it’s kind of like, ‘hey how are you’ just condensed. They don’t really care about you. It’s become abstracted so much that it just becomes hello.
In the beginning, I would started answering and then realised that no one really cares. These are things that you need to learn this way, ‘cause they don’t tell you at school. “Don’t bother replying ‘cause they don’t care”.
Just to see what happens I’d start replying ‘yeah, I’m shit’ and then people stop. And come back, and are like ‘why, what’s happened?’ and then I’m like I’m just kidding.
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Ageing
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I arranged another conversation with a woman I got in to talks with at the Bristol Rambler’s called Julie. We got on quite well when I went on a ramble and she was really enthusiastic about my project on ‘clubs’ recognising how important they are. We spoke about all the things she was involved in and it was really interesting. I was glad she agreed to meet since I think she really does understand the importance of connecting and forging new relationships in all areas.
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On Saturday I host something called Natural Voices Choir, which involves obviously using your voice and getting people together. No doubt it cost money to join, I don’t know. Through the Rambler’s I meet people.
There’s a place in Bristol called Hartcliffe and a Rambler and I are hosting a walk in that area for the Bristol Walking Festival. Local people will be involved.
Do you want some more of the things I’m involved in?
The first thing I joined when I came to Bristol in ‘89 was the Bristol Cycling Campaign, and again that is an example of something practical but fun. They used to run cycle rides in the evening. Like the Ramblers, it’s a self-help group; there are no charges on either. We feel that’s incredibly important.
I’ve set up something called Bristol Bus Pass Poets. We have bus passes, and somebody in the Older People’s Forum wrote a song which is like a story of her feeling of liberation when she got her bus pass. The song goes: ‘Hang on to your bus pass, The bus pass must stay’
I thought, as the libraries are threatened we might as well see if we can set up a group. Because lots of people in Bristol write poetry but a lot of people don’t have an outlet. So I managed to organise a little session, just one hour sitting around a table. I’ve done that in Fishponds, Shirehampton, Fishponds and Henbury. There’s such a need for this type of thing. For example in Henbury, which is a poor area. A woman of 84 came with a big book of poetry that she had write and said that her family wouldn’t listen to her, which is the case for many people. So we read poems around a table, and could see that was well worth doing.
To me, communication… you know- you have to set up situations to communicate, and situations which are fun and not just hearing people complain.
Julie on Ageing
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This group called Natural Voices... there were three choirs there, but the only person who read a poem that they had written themselves was a woman- it was a really good poem. She was saying ‘stop giving me drugs, stop giving me penicillin, stop keeping me alive artificially’. So I gave her a copy of my Bus Pass Poets pamphlet, so I gave her a copy of that because there was no one else for me to communicate with. And I think encouraging creativity is incredibly important.
I’ll flag up the ramblers as a good example of that. Any member of the rambler’s is allowed to put on a walk. That is, to my mind, brilliant, because it can give people outlets. It’s an example of someone using their dream and their creativity. Because walking is the most amazing therapeutic, calm, bonding-with-the-soil type activity
Have you always been quite active in that respect? Yes, because I have to arrange the world for how I like it, because otherwise I’d find it boring. I find so many things, like bridge or whatever women my age play, excruciating.
Talking doesn’t have to just be verbal, does it?
Another thing they’ve done that I’ve benefited from is book groups; ours which is on Cheltnam Road which was set up by the council. Some of us meet for lunch afterwards. Again, we were getting 10 people to go to that, so it’s showing how much people value, a sort of getting together… activity.
On communicating. The poem on Saturday... There’s a woman from Shirehampton, she has been very involved with Bristol Older People’s Forum, and is campaigning to keep the lavatory open. This year the older people’s forum have invited two choirs to sing. Anyway, she wrote the most beautiful poem, which said ‘where’s that beautiful young woman that used to run up and down the stairs’ but she didn’t turn up because she realised it was about how wonderful it was to be old. If it was a moany poem, no one would have wanted to listen. So people responded.
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There’s a group called Henbury Healthy Walking Group, and they immediately put a petition online, and got themselves on the Bristol Post. The fact that the woman who headed the walk put her number on the petition it meant I could contact her. Because it’s so difficult to get in touch with other campaigning groups.
I do hope you don’t just talk about bloody Alzheimer’s. I hope you don’t go down the misery road.
Being admirable is no point at all. I mean, to me, the success is encouraging this woman called Edith, who’s written poems all her life, that she understands the importance of not just turning up, but is becoming more proactive. She’s used her energy to create a poster for our Bus Pass Poets events. In whatever she does, she always emphasises the importance of involving young people.
Julie on Ageing
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You have to set up situations to
communicate
Situations which
are fun and not
just hearing
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I have to
arrange the world
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for how I like it otherwise I’d find it boring (
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Writing
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I recently started talking to my friend Tom through the medium of letter writing since he said he had never had a pen-friend, and I thought it might be a fun experiment. We also decided not to talk to each other on Facebook, but have compromised on texting each other for making plans and meeting up. So far the process has been interesting; being unsure about whether or not he’s received my letter or not. And it’s also fun since he studies illustration and therefore always includes some little scribble which is exciting. So far I’ve sent a photo from a walk in the past, and a self portrait, since I prefer to draw from real life.
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I used to have a big problem with talking to people, because every time I would do it I would walk away thinking ‘shit I could have said this’ or ‘I could have said that better’. I used to beat myself up all day. I wasn’t very big on MSN either. I found the only place I felt comfortable was communicating myself on stage. Like ‘now I can throw myself in other people’s faces/minds’.
I used to hate talking to people ‘cause I would always say the wrong thing.
With regards to letter writing, how do you find it different to online platforms? There’s something about… doing things online; you’re constantly, you’re still in a hurry, even if you’re on a messaging system, you’re still hurrying it up and doing statuses and things. You always feel like you’re saying too much and feel really pretentious. Whereas in letter writing you can divulge in things without seeming too pretentious, like you’re delving into things for the hell of things. I think Facebook can be inherently cynical. There’s just something about writing into your phone— the electricity is still there, it’s still humming, whereas when you’ve got paper in front of you, it’s just something much more natural and much less forced. You take the context or what you’re writing into in to consideration and that always affects it. Whereas in letter writing, that’s all you’ve got right there. It’s just you, piece of paper, and the other person. And you know, you just do your thing. And it’s nice to see your own handwriting, and there’s a great attachment to producing words and things. And you treat it more like a piece of art, as opposed to the pure ‘what you doing?’ Something about writing and typing— there’s quite a big difference there.
Tom on Writing
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The things you cross out stay, and there’s evidence of it. Same with drawing and things. There’s a lot less room for error— you can always backtrack. You can make an error and it can look pretty good. There’s something nice about that. You can fuck up— it’s alright.
I quite like crossing out. Yeah, I know.
I think it’s quite a human thing. Maybe it’s a talking thing— like backtracking. If it came out perfectly first time it would weird.
Writing things out helps clarify and sharpen.
With this letter-writing lark, I suppose it’s coincided with you quitting Facebook... It was quite a sudden thing but years feeling ashamed of it. I feel a lot better for it. Seems like, you just settle into your skin a lot better. Not just this annoying sea of selfconsciousness. A lot of people feel it’s a necessary tool.
It’s exciting. I came home after the weekend and my mum had dried my washing and put the washing on top, and I was like, ‘yeah’.
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Waterfront / Tea
In letter writing, that’s all you’ve got right there
It’s just you, piece of paper, and the other person
Introversion
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I had another chat with one of my friends who is the most introverted people I know. He’s really uncomfortable in some social situations and is aware of his need to spend time alone and also finds that some people don’t quite understand. It was also good to chat to him about this, especially since it’s something he thinks is weird.
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You have to make it seem like you’re normal
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How do you find meeting someone for the first time? I usually don’t like it, even if it’s someone I might like, I don’t like them the first time I meet them. I can’t like them. I usually have to meet them two times and sort of build it up. When I can’t talk to them properly I don’t feel like I know them at all. There’s liking them and there’s being able to interact and wanting to know them.
What’s the average amount of meetings? About three? On their own, definitely. Even if it’s a group of people I know I won’t like it. A lot of people think it’s weird, especially when I was younger, people’d be like ‘get loads of friends out’ etc. I quickly learnt in younger school when you’re forced in to groups that I didn’t like it. I became aware of it quite young. When I got older it become less important than I thought it was. I know I have to explain to people a lot. I have to make it known that I’m not just mad or being a dick or rude. I probably am just being a dick. You have to make sure that when you’re with someone, you don’t want to make it seem like you always want to get away; even if you do just want to get away.
Is there a way you get around that? I guess it’s the ability to talk to someone online, the meeting thing is less and less important by talking to them a bit more and finding out more about them, rather than chatting to them directly.
So does that cut out the need to meet them? Yeah, yeah. It cuts it down but it’s still different. I can analyse things in writing. Online it’s sort of expected. At work it’s the only time I meet new people, and there’s only one person who I’m friends with who knows that I want to be on my own on my break or talk to people. When I was younger- especially my familyif there was an empty room I’d go in there and hear them ask ‘what’s wrong with him, is he upset?’ Again, it’d make it seem like I’m being stroppy. I just don’t see the point if I’m not comfortable or interacting with anyone, I don’t want to waste time being uncomfortable.
Zak on Introversion
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What’s your opinion on small talk? It’s a waste of time, especially in work. If I walk past someone, I don’t say bye to them, in the mornings I don’t want to say hi to everyone. I gain nothing, doing that. I just don’t like it. I don’t learn anything about anything. If there were something wrong with them I wouldn’t have to ask. Or it wouldn’t be something that you would open up with. You need to have a proper conversation.
The head nod’s not easy. Too much and people think ‘what’s he doing?’ too little and no one notices! When someone asks ‘how are you’, you have to answer
Until you can slowly
as though you sound appreciative for them asking. You could seem like a weirdo and get too into it. I just don’t like forced small talk. I already know enough about them, I don’t want to properly socialise with them.
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dial it back a bit Do you think, in a way it makes you good at listening to people? Yeah, I find it hard to have any input on a conversation unless I know someone. So I sort of have to listen and make the most of what they’re saying. They don’t have to say much.
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What’s your opinion on people who are extroverted? It’s hard not to think they’re putting it on. I just can’t understand that other people do like that. It’s hard not to feel negative.
I can count all my friends on one hand.
It’s important to experience things in larger portions rather than stopping and trying to focus on too much. If I do too much at once I can’t think about anything meaningful about anything.
Do you ever feel the need to act more confident than you are?
All the time yeah, especially when I was looking for a job. In interviews, you can’t tell people that you’re not very talkative. You have to put it on for half an hour and then go flush your head down a toilet afterwards.
A lot of the time, you have to make it seem like you’re normal. You have to sort of force conversation you don’t necessarily care about. Until you can slowly dial it back a bit.
I hope that people notice that I have to put it on. I’ve had people in that past get irritated that I’m not as in their face, like I’m lying about... I don’t know. A lot of people get frustrated.
I’ve been to so many interviews that have been nightmares. You have to debate, and they look at who’s doing the most talking, and if you don’t talk, you’re out of there. Toys ‘R’ Us. It’s less about what you have to say and more about how loud you can say it. It’s not something I’d practically ever do— it’s just one-to-one.
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You have to sort of force conversation you don’t necessarily care about
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Treat others how they’d like to be treated
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