The ERA Bulletin 2007-08

Page 1

The Bulletin

NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007

New York Division, Electric Railroaders’ Association Vol. 50, No. 8 The Bulletin Published by the New York Division, Electric Railroaders’ Association, Incorporated, PO Box 3001, New York, New York 10008-3001.

For general inquiries, contact us at nydiv@ electricrailroaders.org or by phone at (212) 986-4482 (voice mail available). ERA’s w e b s i t e i s www.electricrailroaders. org. Editorial Staff: Editor-in-Chief: Bernard Linder News Editor: Randy Glucksman Contributing Editor: Jeffrey Erlitz Production Manager: David Ross

©2007 New York Division, Electric Railro a d e rs’ Association, Incorporated

In This Issue: Fulton Street Subway — A, E, CC, and C Service...Page 2

August, 2007

SECOND AVENUE SUBWAY WILL BE ENERGY-EFFICIENT The Second Avenue Subway is the biggest expansion in decades of New York City’s public transportation system. Scheduled for completion in 2013, Phase One includes the extension of Q service, with stations at 72nd Street, 86th Street, and 96th Street. NYC Transit’s April, 2007 At Your Service newsletter describes the energy-efficient features of the new subway. In 2004, NYC Transit won the Green Building Design Award for station skylights, energy-efficient lighting, energy-efficient aluminum third rails, and escalators that run at a reduced speed when they are not used. Of course, the new subway will be fully ADA accessible. NYC Transit must conserve energy because electrical energy is becoming more expensive. The 2007 electric bill will be about $227 million, 18 percent above the $192 million bill for 2006, because of rate increases. In 2000, NYC Transit paid $146 million for electrical energy. The primary source of power is the New York Power Authority, the country’s largest state-owned power supplier, which operates 18 generating facilities. The Power Authority meets the increased demand for electrical energy by increasing the supply with more electric power purchases and decreasing demand by financing customers’ conservation projects. These projects will save NYC Transit nearly $4 million in 2007 and projects that are being designed will save another $1 million by the end of 2008. Because global warming may cause the sea level to rise, the designers consulted the

Federal Emergency Management Agency’s flood maps, which establish flood elevations for a 50-year flood, 100-year flood, and 500year flood for each area. In new construction, all entrances, exits, and openings from the station and tunnel will be built at least one foot above the 100-year flood elevation. All underground construction will be waterproofed and will have pump rooms. The older subway lines have street gratings which provide ventilation with the piston action of the trains. The Second Avenue Subway will not have any street gratings, but will have openings only at the shafts and station entrances. Therefore, the tunnels will be provided with forced ventilation. The state’s $2.9 billion Transportation Bond Act, which was passed in 2005, appropriated $450 million for the new subway. Construction started after the $333 million contract for the first phase was signed. At the present time, officials do not know where they can find the money to complete this $3.8 billion project. When the trains start running, they will relieve overcrowding on the Lexington Avenue Subway. The new line should carry an estimated 200,000 passengers each weekday and it will support New York City’s economic growth, an estimated 1 million population gain by 2030. When funds are available, the subway will be extended south to Hanover Square and north to 125th Street, where passengers will be able to transfer to 456 t rains. T trains will stop at the following stations: (Continued on page 17)

1 West Side Yard — September 15 Next Trip: LIRR Arch Street Shop and


NEW 2000 NEW YORK YORK DIVISION DIVISIONBULLETIN BULLETIN -OCTOBER, AUGUST, 2007

FULTON STREET SUBWAY — A, E, CC, AND C SERVICE by Bernard Linder We published summaries of the Brooklyn A service and headways in the October, 2006 Bulletin and summaries of the Rockaway service and headways in the

July, 2006 Bulletin. The following were omitted from previous issues because of the lack of space.

RUSH HOUR E SERVICE DATE

LOCAL OR EXPRESS IN BROOKLYN

SOUTH TERMINAL

October 24, 1949

Local

Broadway-East New York

June 29, 1956

Local

Euclid Avenue, Far Rockaway, Rockaway Park (A)

September 17, 1956

Local

Euclid Avenue

September 8, 1958

Local

Euclid Avenue, Far Rockaway, Rockaway Park

November 3, 1958

(B)

Euclid Avenue, Far Rockaway, Rockaway Park

September 8, 1959

Express (C)

Euclid Avenue, Far Rockaway, Rockaway Park

June 6, 1960

Express (C)

Euclid Avenue, Far Rockaway, Rockaway Park, Lefferts Boulevard (3 trains)

Local

Rockaway Park, Euclid Avenue

January 2, 1973

RUSH HOUR CC SERVICE DATE August 30, 1976

LOCAL OR EXPRESS IN BROOKLYN

SOUTH TERMINAL

Local

Rockaway Park, Euclid Avenue

C SERVICE DATE

LOCAL OR EXPRESS IN BROOKLYN

SOUTH TERMINAL

May 26, 1987

Local

Euclid Avenue, Rockaway Park rush hours

December 12, 1988

Local

Euclid Avenue, Rockaway Park rush hours and midday weekdays

October 26, 1992

Local

Euclid Avenue rush hours and midday weekdays

May 2, 1999

Local

Euclid Avenue every day except midnights

(A) Several trains were laid up at Broadway-East New York after the AM rush and put in service there before the PM rush. Several Rockawaybound trains were cut at Euclid Avenue during the AM rush (B) Four A trains leaving Euclid Avenue from 7:56 to 8:24 AM made local stops in Brooklyn. All other A trains made express stops. At about the same time, two E trains from Rockaway Park and two trains from Far Rockaway made express stops in Brooklyn. All other E trains made local stops (C) A trains made local stops

Two photographs of Liberty Junction under construction. Bernard Linder collection (Continued on page 3)

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NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007 Fulton Street Subway—A, E, CC, and C Service (Continued from page 2)

E TRAIN HEADWAYS NORTH OF EUCLID AVENUE DATE

AM RUSH

PM RUSH

Northbound

Southbound

Northbound

Southbound

October 24, 1949

4

3, 4, 5

3, 4

4, 5

December 30, 1949

4

4, 5

4

4, 5

December 11, 1950

5, 4

3½, 4

3½, 4

4, 5

June 30, 1952

5, 4

3, 4

3½, 5

4, 5

November 1, 1954

5, 4

4

4

4, 5

October 3, 1955

6, 4

4

4

4, 5

December 21, 1964

5, 4

4

4, 5

November 1, 1971

5, 4

4

4, 5

4, 6

CC/C TRAIN HEADWAYS NORTH OF EUCLID AVENUE DATE

ROUTE

AM RUSH

MIDDAY

Northbound

Southbound

PM RUSH

EVENING

Northbound

Southbound

August 30, 1976

CC

5

5

6

4

September 8, 1981

CC

7

9, 10

10

5

December 20, 1982

CC

7

10

10

6

November 17, 1986

CC

7

10

10

7

May 26, 1987

C

6

10

10

7

November 21, 1987

C

7

10

10

7

December 12, 1988

C

7

10

10

10, 9

7, 10

October 26, 1992

C

8

10

10

10

9, 10

May 3, 1999

C

N/A

N/A

N/A

N/A

N/A

N/A

September 9, 2002

C

8

9, 10

10

10

10

12

A TRAIN HEADWAYS—LEFFERTS BOULEVARD SERVICE WEEKDAYS DATE

MIDNIGHT

AM RUSH Northbound

MIDDAY

Southbound

PM RUSH Northbound

EVENING

Southbound

April 30, 1956

20

8

8

16

8

8

20

January 28, 1957

20

8, 4*

8, 4*

16

8, 4*

8, 4*

20

September 8, 1958

20

8

8

16

8

8

20

November 27, 1967

20

8

8

20

8

8

24

November 1, 1971

20

8, 10

8, 10

20

4, 5

6

24

January 2, 1973

20

8, 10

8, 4*

20

8, 4*

8

24

August 30, 1976

20

10

10

20

8

10

24

September 18, 1978

20

10

7 average

20

8, 4*

10

24

December 20, 1982

20

12

8, 4*

20

8, 4*

10

24

November 26, 1984

20

12

10

20

10

10

24

(Continued on page 4)

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NEW 2000 NEW YORK YORK DIVISION DIVISIONBULLETIN BULLETIN -OCTOBER, AUGUST, 2007 Fulton Street Subway—A, E, CC, and C Service (Continued from page 3) DATE

MIDNIGHT

AM RUSH

AM RUSH

MIDDAY

PM RUSH

PM RUSH

EVENING

November 17, 1986

20

10

10

20

5, 10*

8

24

October 26, 1992

20

10

6, 12*

20

6, 12*

10

24

September 8, 2002

20

8, 12

16

15 (A)

12

8

16

(A) 15-minute headway effective May 13, 2002 *Irregular headway because two Lefferts Boulevard trains followed each Rockaway train

A TRAIN HEADWAYS—LEFFERTS BOULEVARD SERVICE WEEKENDS SATURDAY Date

Morning

SUNDAY Afternoon

Evening

Date

May 5, 1956

16

12

16

April 29, 1956

September 22, 1956

16

(A)

16

September 16, 1956

February 2, 1957

(B)

(B)

16, 20

December 2, 1967

16

16

January 2, 1973

20

December 17, 1988

Morning

Afternoon

Evening

12

10

10, 20

24, 20

20

20

October 31, 1971

24

24

24

20

November 11, 1973

30

24

24

20

24

December 11, 1988

30, 24

24

24

20

20, 16

24

May 21, 1989

30, 24

20

24

October 31, 1992

7, 14*

6, 12* 5, 10*

20

October 25, 1992

8, 16*

8, 16* 7, 14*

20

September 6, 1997

15, 20

16

20, 24

August 31, 1997

24, 20

20, 16

20, 30

20

20

24

2001

36, 24

20

24

2001

(A) 16 minutes early afternoon, 6, 12* minutes late afternoon (B) 6, 12* minutes early morning, 16 minutes late morning and early afternoon, 6, 12* minutes late afternoon *Irregular headway because two Lefferts Boulevard trains followed each Rockaway train The current schedules are similar to the latest schedules listed in the above tables.

An A train of R-10 cars at Far Rockaway. Bernard Linder collection

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NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007

CENTENNIAL OF NEW HAVEN ELECTRIFICATION (CONTINUED FROM JULY, 2007 ISSUE) The following photographs were intended to go with last month’s story covering the centennial of electrifica-

tion on the New Haven Railroad, but were omitted because of a lack of space.

A New Haven Railroad train on April 25, 1937.

New Haven Railroad locomotive 03258, built by Baldwin/ Westinghouse in 1928, is seen at Mount Vernon in June, 1937.

New Haven Railroad car 4200.

New Haven Railroad car 4271, built by Osgood Bradley in 1926, is seen at Mount Vernon on March 18, 1946.

New Haven Railroad engine 359 on the scrap line at New Haven Yard in September, 1963.

New Haven Railroad train in New Rochelle.

All of the above photographs are from Bernard Linder’s collection. 5

(Continued on page 6)


NEW 2000 NEW YORK YORK DIVISION DIVISIONBULLETIN BULLETIN -OCTOBER, AUGUST, 2007 Centennial of New Haven Electrification (Continued from page 5)

The following photographs were taken by Larry Linder on May 17, 1969.

Mount Vernon station, looking south.

Mount Vernon station, looking east.

Another view at the Mount Vernon station.

Mamaroneck station, looking north.

Another view of the Mamaroneck station, looking north.

Mamaroneck station, looking south.

can be returned at no cost to the rider. This survey can be completed online, where it is available in 13 languages. After the 7 survey is finished, surveys will be distributed on other subway routes and on bus routes. After studying the passengers’ response to this survey, NYC Transit expects to produce a public transportation system that is second to none.

Around New York’s Transit System (Continued from page 20)

paired, they are asked to list their top three improvements. These Report Cards, which are distributed to passengers at various stations, are in a mailer format. They 6


NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007

NEW YORK DIVISION TRIP TO NEW JERSEY AND STATEN ISLAND by Randy Glucksman neighbor, etc. The exact site is called THE MEMORIAL AT HARBOR VIEW PARK, and this location was selected because it was an arrival point for many evacuees on 9/11, as well as a staging area for rescuers. At the center of the monument, which is dedicated “To the Struggle Against World Terrorism,” there is a nickel-plated teardrop that weighs four tons and measures approximately 40 feet high. In the distance you can see the New York harbor and skyline, as well as the Statue of Liberty. A dedication ceremony was held on the fifth anniversary of 9/11. Our final stop of the day was at MTA Staten Island Railway. We were greeted by Joseph Kimbrig, SIR’s Superintendent of Safety and Security, who was a most enthusiastic speaker as well as being very knowledgeable. He gave a brief history of the Staten Island Railway. All of the passenger cars are R-44s, 52 originals plus 12 ex-MTA New York City Transit. The latter retain their original numbers, 388-399, which places them just below the original group, which are numbered in the 400-series. Staten Island Railway has a small fleet of work equipment, including a pair of MTA NYCT R-41 dieselelectrics, 57 and 58. Both are presently undergoing an overhaul in the Clifton Shops. Also on the property are two Alco S-1s, 407, ex-LIRR, and 821, ex- U.S. Army. In autumn, railroads in areas where leaves fall from trees experience traction and braking problems, and the SI Railway is no exception. One of the railway’s employees, who had recently passed away, designed a system that was purpose-built to take care of this problem. It has been placed atop one of SIR’s flatcars, and when attached to one of the diesels, makes one round trip each night during leaf falling season. Mr. Kimbrig told us that maintenance personnel from other railroads have visited to have a first-hand look at this flatcar. During snowstorms, ex-NYCT RD-344 sees service. This is a De-Icer Car that has two un-powered third rail shoes on each truck; one acts as an ice scraper for the contact rail, while the other has a tube connected to it which spreads the de-icing liquid. There was a property plate on the car, which has seen a few too many coats of paint but shows that the car is an R-22, either ex7441 or 7443. The trip ended at this point, and those destined for Manhattan boarded SIR trains to the St. George Ferry Terminal, and those returning to New Jersey were taken to the 34th Street HBLRT station for a ride toward Hoboken.

The New York Division-ERA operated a very successful trip on Sunday, June 24, using a chartered articulated Academy bus on a tour that included stops at NJ Transit’s Meadows Maintenance Complex (MMC) in the New Jersey Meadowlands, Military Ocean TerminalBayonne (MOTBY), MTA Staten Island Railway’s Clifton Shops, and a ride on NJ Transit’s Hudson-Bergen LRT, although not in that order. The weather was magnificent, and all of our hosts were well-versed in their knowledge of the respective facilities — plus, the trip was a sell-out! At the MMC, we were shown some of the machinery that is used to maintain NJT’s vast fleet of cars and locomotives. We were permitted to take photos of the Arrows and Comets, as well as electric and diesel locomotives. One of the multi-level cars was even made available for all to climb aboard. Outside of the building, there were examples of all of the aforementioned, as well as west-of-Hudson GP40-GH-2 4903, recently returned from its overhaul. Also on view was ex-Amtrak P40 835, one of four that we were told were being purchased for the Atlantic City Express service. (Other sources reported the four units to be 808, 810, 812, and 820.) An expansion of the yard is also underway. After lunch at the Newport Center Mall food court, we boarded the 1:14 PM southbound HBLRT car to 22nd Street. As the car passed the Communipaw Maintenance Facility, we were able to see the 8 PCCs that have been designated for the proposed MOTBY trolley line. Unfortunately, the tarps were beginning to show signs of serious deterioration as some of the cars were plainly visible, especially the two end cars, 13 and 24. We all got off at 34th Street, where our bus was parked. Suzanne Mack, who would be our next host, was waiting for us and handed out copies of the 2006 Annual Report for the Bayonne Local Redevelopment Authority, which is coordinating the redevelopment of the site. The question that most of the attendees wanted answered was, when would the PCCs be operating? The short answer is that this would not take place until the level of the property is raised to eight feet above sea level. At the end of the MOTBY peninsula stands a 175-ton, 100-foot-tall steel monument, a memorial to the nearly 3,000 who were killed in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. Their names are engraved into the granite base, and as I was walking around it, I overheard many of the attendees telling others that they knew this person, or they worked with that person, or that this person had been a

7


NEW 2000 NEW YORK YORK DIVISION DIVISIONBULLETIN BULLETIN -OCTOBER, AUGUST, 2007

SEYMOUR KASHIN, 1926-2007 by Russell Jackson and Jack May Seymour (Sy) Kashin passed away on June 7 from various complications, age 81. He suffered from MS, and had been essentially bedridden the last couple of years. Following a stint in the United States military, during which he picked up shrapnel on Guam, Sy worked for the New York Central and for a number of consultants. Sy had been undoubtedly the most avid follower and enthusiast of the PCC project, and had amassed what is undoubtedly the largest amount of material and knowledge about that project on the planet. He had much personal contact with those involved with Electric Railway Presidents’ Conference Committee (ERPCC) and the Transit Research Corporation (TRC), and it likely could be safely said that now we have lost the last person who had actual contact with personages of the PCC program. Sy and Harre Demoro had put together an excellent PCC history book which supplemented the pair done by Schneider and Carlsson. Like recently lost Bill Janssen, Sy had his own distinct personality traits, but he was always pleased to provide information and support to anyone interested in the PCC program. He was a great mentor. Much has been lost. The following description of Sy Kashin’s accomplishments is from his and Harre Demoro’s book An American Original: The PCC Car (1986), mentioned above: Seymour Kashin is a New York-based transportation economist specializing in rail and transit operations, passenger rolling stock design, and fare collection. A native of the borough of Manhattan, Kashin has a D.S. Degree in Business Administration and Transportation from New York University, an M.S. in Transportation Economics from Columbia University and a Certificate of Traffic Management from the Academy of Advanced

Traffic in New York. He has held several transportation management positions, including General Manager of the Marin County Transit District in California. As a consultant, Kashin has been active in studies dealing with commuter rail operations and rapid transit in the New York area and the Middle East. He also was involved in the design of multiple-unit electric commuter cars for New Jersey and Philadelphia and directed and administered a federal grant program that planned major improvements and additions to the New York subway system and the Long Island Rail Road. Kashin has been published in numerous industry and technical journals and is an Adjunct Professor of Marketing at Pace University in New York. Most of the basic research for this book was conducted by Kashin, who was acquainted with some of the principals of the Electric Railway Presidents' Conference Committee and Transit Research Corp. Member Raymond Berger adds that Sy Kashin was the last surviving railfan employee of the Third Avenue Railway System. He was as knowledgeable about the inner workings and later history of that company as he was about the PCC project. Ray also notes that Sy designed the Third Avenue Railway System’s (and later Surface Transit System’s) transfers, basing them on Jack Fennelly, Sr.’s design for East Side Omnibus transfers. These transfers (PM coupon on the left) were used from January 1, 1941 to December, 1959, when all free Surface Transit System transfers were discontinued. A moment of silence was observed in his memory at the New York Division meeting on June 15, and an internment service was held on June 21 at the military cemetery at Calverton (Long Island), New York.

SUBDIVISION “B” UPDATE by Bill Zucker and George Chiasson Here is a summary of R-32 transfers since the beginning of 2006. On January 2, 2006, cars 3368/9 and 3422/3 were transferred from Coney Island to Jamaica, (General Electric-overhauled) cars 3892/3 and 3934-3937 were transferred from Jamaica to Pitkin, and cars 3834-3837, 3856/7, and 3864/5 were transferred from 207th Street to Pitkin. On January 7, 2007, cars 3348/3549, 3382/3831, 3418/3863, 3420/3645, 3462/3, 3478/9, 3482/3, 3530/3741, 3540/1, 3559/3904, 3617/3776, and 3692/3 were transferred from Coney Island to Jamaica, cars 3868/9 and 3872/3 were transferred from 207th Street to Pitkin, and (General Electric-overhauled) cars 3880/1

were transferred from Jamaica to Pitkin. On May 21, 2007, cars 3546/7, 3560/1, 3564/5, 3596/7, and 3684/5 were transferred from Coney Island to Jamaica. On June 7, 2007, General Electric-overhauled cars 3594/5 and 3892/3 were moved to storage at 207th Street. On June 29, 2007, cars 3436/7 and 3732/3 were transferred from Jamaica to Pitkin. In other news, R-68 2923, in Franklin Avenue Shuttle service, has split upper sashes instead of the usual solid . Also, as of late June, 86 R-160 cars had been accepted for service. The weekend of July 1-2 was the first weekend R-160 cars were observed in N service. 8


NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007

Commuter and Transit Notes

No. 225 by Randy Glucksman

3 and May 9, the following consist operated on Waterbury Trains #1926/1975 and later MNR/SLE Train #1644 from Stamford to Old Saybrook: W-842 (Amtrak P-42)-1732-1740-1734 (ex-VRE)-1697 Sleeping Giant (Bombardier). A “Test Extra” with a consist of SLE 66961701 was operated on a round trip to Old Saybrook on June 22. Upon passing this test, the ex-VRE cab cars may finally be operating in service. Following the announcements by MTA Executive Director and CEO Elliot G. Sander and NJ Transit Executive Director Rich Sarles on June 5 (please see July, 2007 Bulletin), Connecticut Governor M. Jodi Rell directed CDOT to examine ways to open New Haven Line train service into NY Penn Station. She was quoted in The Stamford Advocate as saying it has been one of her "top transportation goals over the past three years," and asked DOT to complete this study by August 1. She also said: "Service to Penn Station opens for Connecticut commuters an entirely new region of the New York metro area with service to lower Manhattan and through to New Jersey," Continuing, "Whether we are expanding north to Massachusetts, east into Rhode Island, or farther west into New York, developing regional transit linkages is the way of our rail future." In a study done by Metro-North five years ago, it was estimated that that 4.5 million riders would take advantage of riding the New Haven Line into Penn Station each year, and total ridership would increase by more than 770,000. Connecticut officials estimate that 30 percent of New Haven Line riders travel to Penn Station after they reach Grand Central Terminal. LIRR knows that a large percentage of its riders travel to East Side of Manhattan after they detrain at Penn Station. This is a primary reason why the East Side Access Project was developed. However, in the case of Connecticut riders, the infrastructure is already in place, and it is just “institutional obstructions” (who owns what piece of turf) that have prevented this through service from taking place already. There is another problem: there is no space for Metro-North trains in Penn Station because it is nearly filled with LIRR, NJ Transit, and Amtrak trains. Because this is a very interesting subject, below are some email comments that I received. “Several years ago Metro-North did a study of running into Penn Station to use slots in Penn Station that would be vacated by the East Side Access Project. The route from NH via the Hell Gate Line would have added two new commuter stops including one to serve Co-Op City in the Bronx. The route from the Harlem was around the back of MO (Mott Haven). It was deemed to be not viable because it would have required new com-

METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY Governor Eliot Spitzer has recommended H. Dale Hemmerdinger, a real estate developer, to be the new Chairman of MTA. The current Chairman, Peter S. Kalikow, has the same profession. Mr. Hemmerdinger is the president of Atco Properties and Management, which owns and manages more than two million square feet of residential, commercial, industrial and retail space. Before he can assume the office, his nomination must be approved by the New York State Senate, which at press time, was within days of going into recess. At its June board meeting, MTA authorized a $3.59 million contract with a company called Multina that will supply 50,982 new armrests for 826 LIRR and 336 MNR M-7s. The railroads' own employees will install the armrests. Metro-North’s cars will be completed by firstquarter 2009 and the Long Island’s (because of its larger fleet) by mid-2010. MTA METRO-NORTH RAILROAD (EAST) During June, rumors were circulating that CP Rail would end its three-times-a-week freight service from Saratoga, New York via the Hudson Line and Oak Point Link to Fresh Pond in Queens. However, this service is still running in July. A ground-breaking ceremony for the new Yankee Stadium station was held on July 20. The station is to be open in conjunction with the new Yankee Stadium for the 2009 baseball season. CONNECTICUT DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION A derailment occurred on the Waterbury line around 1:45 PM June 21, when northbound Train #1926 went off the tracks about ¼-mile from the New Haven Main Line. The train remained upright. Two passengers and two crewmembers received minor injuries. Forty-four other passengers were not injured. Service remained suspended throughout the day, with buses filling in, and regular service was resumed the following morning. Member Bob Underwood wrote that he had heard about this during the 5 PM WTNH (Channel 8) newscast, which was repeated on all subsequent broadcasts that evening. Friday’s New Haven Register did not carry a word about the incident, but the Connecticut Post reported that it was a three-car train. Channel 8 reported that there were four cars, which Bob confirmed by viewing the video coverage. The engine involved was P-40 842 (south), which is leased to CDOT but normally assigned to SLE. The rest of the consist was: 1697 (Bombardier)-1734-1740-1732 (ex-VRE Mafersa). Metro-North reported the average daily ridership on the Waterbury Line to be 243. Thanks also to member Josh Weis for some of the details in this report. Then there were these two reports from Bob. On May

(Continued on page 10)

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NEW 2000 NEW YORK YORK DIVISION DIVISIONBULLETIN BULLETIN -OCTOBER, AUGUST, 2007 Commuter and Transit Notes (Continued from page 9)

muter trains in the opposite direction between MO and DV (Spuyten Duyvil) that would have had to cross the current flow of traffic. The third one was from the Hudson Line down the West Side Freight Line that Amtrak now calls the Empire Corridor. The study looked at a proposed schedule including both revenue and nonrevenue dead head trains. I don't know if they looked very closely at the equipment that would be used. “Or they could run (diesel-powered) via the new freight track from the Hudson Line junction at the old Bronx Terminal Market through the old NYW&B/NH 132nd Street Yards to a reverse move in NH's former Oak Point Yards and then via the Hell Gate Bridge to Fresh Pond Junction and the Montauk Branch in Queens. Maybe they'd like to re-track the St. Anns Park line and tunnel directly to the Hell Gate Bridge? That way they could use third rail and pantographs and keep it all electric. “MTA also is looking at running trains between Riverdale and Montauk, linking the Metro-North and LIRR systems." How would that be routed? Via the West Side Line into Penn Station — that would be the only way to do it at this point in time. The only other option would entail running around the Wye at MO, up to New Rochelle on the New Haven, a reverse move at NRO, etc. No, I'm sure the proposal is to use the West Side Line, which was double tracked with the thought of MN trains using it (a fact Amtrak conveniently likes to forget).” If you are interested in some other rumors about the New Haven Line to Secaucus service which is proposed for 2009, the following came to me via an email. The service would be operated using NJ Transit equipment (ALP44/46 with Comets, maybe even MLVs). Trains would be operated by Metro-North crews from New Haven to NY Penn Station, which implies that Metro-North crews would have to be qualified to operate from CP 216 (New Rochelle) to NYP (and NORAC) and on NJ Transit equipment. From there, NJ Transit crews would take over and run the train to Secaucus to drop off passengers and then take the train to Harrison Yard. Eastbound, the procedure would be reversed. The NYP stop would only be for a crew change. MTA LONG ISLAND RAIL ROAD Member Jeff Erlitz reported that 9547/8 and 9745/6 are the last M-1s on LIRR property. They are located in the “boneyard” at the Hillside Maintenance Facility. To accommodate three weekends of track work, a special timetable was issued for the Hempstead Branch for June 16-17, June 23-24 and July 14-15. Only the eastbound trains were affected, as buses replaced the train service. The East Hampton Star, in its THE W AY IT W AS... Column of May 30, 2007, reported that 100 years ago: “A special train arrived here last Friday night with a party of 10

railroad officials including President Peters and in the morning Capt. Dave Tuthill took them in his sloop Hattie T. to the Point fishing but hard luck was against them for they did not get a bite. Attached to the train was August Belmont’s special car the Mineola.” Member Joe Gagne, who sent this article, wrote that the car was “electric” and was used by August Belmont to travel around the trolley systems in Queens and Nassau Counties. After years as a chicken coop, the car was obtained by the Branford (Shore Line) Trolley Museum and was restored many years ago. Joe sent another article from The East Hampton Star, which reported on a proposal from Assemblyman Fred W. Thiele Jr. Because of a road reconstruction project that will take place on County Road 39 in Southampton after Labor Day, he would like LIRR to operate additional eastbound service between Speonk and Montauk during the AM peak, and westbound service between those stations in the PM peak. This work will continue through next Memorial Day. Assemblyman Thiele also anticipates that local municipalities would provide bus service to shuttle passengers from train stations to local destinations. He has garnered support from a number of local elected officials, who have also written letters to LIRR. There is another compelling reason for implementing this service, and that is it would serve as a trial balloon for an “East End Shuttle” concept promoted by a group known as Five Town Rural Transit. It has a $360,000 New York State grant to do a study of this idea, and any data collected could provide a clue to how many would utilize such a service. NJ TRANSIT The first train of multi-level cars was assigned to Trenton Train #3967 on the evening of the June Division meeting. A pair of ALP-46s bracketed this 11-car consist: W- 7509-7504-7200-7203-7510-7503-7205-75117505-7507-7508-E. A second train (8 cars) entered service on July 16. Both trainsets are making a total of three round-trips a day between Trenton and New York. Inbound, trains depart from Trenton at 6:03 AM (Train #3914), 7:10 (#3924), and 2:17 PM (#3952). The outbound trips leave New York Penn Station at 10:28 AM (#3835), 5:16 PM (#3965), and 5:30 PM (#3967). Look for a third set to go into service in September. Near the end of June, member Bob Kingman reported MLVs 7003 and 7516 being delivered to NJ Transit. Prior to the June Division meeting, I took a ride on Train #3269 (5:33 PM NY Penn/Long Branch) from NY Penn to Secaucus. This train contains the only private car, or half-car, on the system. Comet-II 5469 has been divided — the western half belongs to the Jersey Shore Commuters Club, and a logo recognizing the 75th anniversary since its founding has been placed on the door to its portion of the car. Its logo contains the letters JSCC intertwined inside a PRR keystone. Regular farepaying passengers can occupy the eastern half of this (Continued on page 11)


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car. Traveling to the Division’s New Jersey and Staten Island trip (please see separate article in this Bulletin) I rode a Main Line train from Suffern. This train as well as three other trains that I passed were all composed of the oldest cars; Comet Is and Comet Ibs. The return trip, on which I was accompanied by member Sid Keyles and his wife, was aboard a Port Jervis Line train that had one Comet IV mixed in with four Comet Vs. Some time in June, the new center-island (high-level) platform at Newark Broad Street was placed into service. This platform also has extended canopies and fully enclosed shelters to protect riders from the elements. The next step is to construct a new inbound high-level platform, and while that work is being done, all trains stop at the center-island platform. This work is just a portion of what is being done to improve the Newark Broad Street station. There will also be two elevators, six new sets of stairs, walkway improvements, a new PA system, electronic information displays, two ADAaccessible restrooms, upgrades to the main waiting room, improved lighting and signage, and a new Customer Service Office. NJ Transit had previously announced that the Pascack Valley Line sidings would be in service in 2008, and with that would come additional midday and weekend service. However, in the July 16 edition of The Times Herald-Record, which serves the Catskills and Hudson Valley, transportation reporter Judy Rife wrote that this could happen on October 28. It would be a first for the single-tracked Pascack Valley Line, which presently schedules 10 inbound and 13 outbound trips weekdays only. Although the exact schedules are still being developed, it is planned to offer six off-peak inbound trains to Hoboken and seven off-peak outbound ones weekdays. On weekends, there would be 11 inbound and 12 outbound trips. The article goes on to say that the project was to be completed in 2003 to coincide with the opening of Secaucus Transfer. I believe that the project was originally supposed to be completed around 2000. Along the way, nine Bergen County towns (only eight directly on the PVL) sued to stop the sidings for fear there would be more freight trains, and NJ Transit ultimately decided not to construct two key sidings in Bergen County, (Montvale and Oradell). So, for the present, there are four sidings, three in New Jersey and one at Nanuet, New York. This will result in better service to Spring Valley, Nanuet, Pearl River, and North Hackensack. The stations in between will see less of this new service. Metro-North has contributed $11.8 million of the $39 million cost. At the May board meeting, NJ Transit’s Directors approved a resolution to share the $9,660,000 cost of pur11

chasing four overhauled P-40 diesel-electric locomotives from Amtrak. Although it has no funding obligation in the operation of the Atlantic City Express trains, the transit agency plans to use them in general revenue service during the week. These locomotives will be certified to run in the North River Tunnels and in NY Penn Station as well. During the Division’s June 24 trip to the Meadows Maintenance Complex, one of our hosts told us that the plan was to use a P-40 on one end of the multi-level trainset, with an electric locomotive (most likely an ALP-46) on the other end. Several significant items were approved at the July Board meeting, including a FY 2008 $1.3 billion capital budget and a $1.6 billion operating budget. The operating budget includes a contribution from the state of nearly $300 million, about the same as last year. Another $464 million in federal and state reimbursements help support the operating budget, which covers the daily expenses of operating the statewide system, fuel, electricity, insurance, and other costs. The capital budget funds $283 million in state-of-good-repair projects for bus, rail, and light rail systems, including $47 million toward the purchase of 1,171 new buses; and $100 million for planning, engineering or construction of many expansion projects under consideration, including the Northern Branch, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail extension, South Jersey/PATCO extension, Passaic-Bergen Rail project, MOM, and Lackawanna Cutoff; $85 million for track and bridge improvements, including replacing 13 of NJ Transit’s 536 miles of track and replacing 53,000 main line track ties. The almost century-old Portal Bridge, which is a vital link on the Northeast Corridor between Newark and Secaucus, will receive $22 million for a study to determine its replacement. $57 million will be spent for rail station improvements including 31st Street NY Penn Station, Trenton and Metropark. The Board also included an authorization to purchase some properties that will enable the one-mile HBLRT extension from 22nd Street. to 8th Street. The alignment will parallel the existing Conrail right-of-way along Avenue E. A viaduct will carry the line over local streets to an elevated platform at the new 8th Street station, which will feature an elevator and stairs between street and platform levels. Construction is expected to begin next year with the station opening in December, 2009. In anticipation of ridership growth that would produce a parking space shortage, improvements will be made at the North Hackensack station (Pascack Valley Line) to add a new 143-space surface lot on the east side of the tracks. The second lot will bring the total number of available parking spaces to 291. (Please see news item above.) Between July 9 and July 22, NJ Transit invited everyone to visit its website to rate areas including comfort, on-time performance, service, reliability, station or shel(Continued on page 12)


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ter conditions, employee performance, communication, handling of service disruptions, and personal security. Instructions were provided for those without a home computer. Seat drop notices were also distributed. It seems that I got my “Saddle” town names mixed up, because in the June Bulletin I identified one of the stops on the proposed NJ Transit Passaic-Bergen rail line as Saddle River. Member Pete Donner wrote that it should be Saddle Brook (his hometown) and that the NYS&W runs through the middle of town. At one time there was a stop known as Passaic Junction, located at Midland Avenue where there is a track connection to the Bergen County Line. PORT AUTHORITY TRANS-HUDSON CORPORATION A temporary new entrance to the World Trade Center station on Church Street, about 50 feet south of the original one, was opened on June 18. The original entrance, opened in November, 2003 when PATH service resumed to the World Trade Center site, is being demolished to allow for construction work on the World Trade Center Transportation Hub project. The temporary Church Street entrance will remain in place until late this year or early in 2008, when a new temporary entrance will open on Vesey Street. Creating the temporary entrances will allow the Port Authority to operate PATH service while major construction continues on a new transportation facility around the existing station. PORT AUTHORITY OF NEW YORK & NEW JERSEY The Port Authority announced that it would begin to conduct its meetings in the open and remove a lot of the secrecy that surrounded many of its actions such as awarding of contracts, and lobbyists. This action was approved by Governors Corzine and Spitzer. METROPOLITAN AREA Severe thunderstorms hit parts of New York City during the afternoon of June 27 and in one case caused a lightning strike which temporarily took out a Con Ed power station in the Bronx. The effect was that MetroNorth lost most of its third rail power. It was so serious at one time that spokeswoman Marjorie Anders told News Radio880 anchors Wayne Cabot and Steve Scott that the railroad was only able to operate one Hudson and one Harlem Line train between Grand Central Terminal and Morris Heights and Melrose. At the worst, about 375,000 of Con Ed’s customers were without power, but this was quickly repaired. Trains began rolling in and out of Grand Central Terminal shortly after 5 PM. There were also outages on 456DV and E. Later that evening, LIRR reported that flooding caused signal problems and that there was no service between Penn Station and Jamaica. This disruption lasted about two hours. The next day, as I passed the timetable racks at Penn Station, I found supplies of ALTERNATIVE

TRAVEL INFORMATION cards, similar to those that are issued for the winter. There were also weather-related delays on Wednesday July 18, which largely affected LIRR. Later that day, at around 6 PM, there was an underground steam pipe explosion at E. 41st Street and Lexington Avenue, near Grand Central Terminal. A large plume of steam and flying debris brought back memories of 9/11. One person died of a heart attack, and several were critically injured, including a truck driver whose tow truck fell into the crater in the street that was created by the explosion. Many of the nearby streets were closed to traffic and pedestrians as Con Ed crews worked to repair the damage. The 24-inch steam pipe that exploded dates from 1924. For a while Grand Central Terminal was evacuated, but then commuters were allowed to enter through specific entrances. For a period of time, 456 trains bypassed Grand Central, and service was suspended on the 42nd Street Shuttle. Several years after Staten Islanders have requested it; a joint announcement was made by the top MTA, NJ Transit and PA officials on July 18 that NYCT would operate a bus line from Staten Island to Bayonne, New Jersey. The Port Authority is providing a one-time contribution of $2 million to help buy nine buses that will be used on the service. The new route, the S89 Limited, will run 12.5 miles from Hylan Boulevard/Richmond Avenue in Eltingville to the 34th Street HBLRT Station in Bayonne, traveling via Richmond Avenue and the Bayonne Bridge. The service will operate on weekdays during the morning and evening peak periods, from 5:30 - 8:30 AM and 4:00 - 7:30 PM. Buses will operate on 15 minute headways in the peak direction (toward Bayonne in the morning) and every 30 minutes in the reverse peak direction (to Staten Island in the morning). Regular fares will be charged. Service on this limitedstop route will begin this fall. New York City Mayor Bloomberg’s plan for Congestion Pricing was approved by the New York State Legislature. While the plan had support from Governor Spitzer and Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno, it was Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver who at first did not go along. Instead, he remained in Manhattan, while the other key players were in Albany. Silver's plan to deal with congestion in the city, which has been approved, centers on creating a legislative commission to both study congestion pricing and have the final say on what will be included. It will determine if there are fees and what they are, what the zones should be, and if there are other ways to keep cars out of the city. It was hoped that this would satisfy the requirement to keep the city in the running for a federal grant of $500 million. AMTRAK Seven “Summer Maintenance” schedules were issued for routes operating in and through the New York metropolitan area due to construction work taking place in (Continued on page 13)

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Metro-North territory. The effective date was June 11 for the following routes: Northeast Corridor — BostonVirginia Beach (Form W4), Springfield-New YorkWashington (W5), Toronto-Buffalo-New York (W8), Harrisburg-Lancaster-Philadelphia-New York (W10), Lake Shore Limited (P48), Ethan Allen Express/Vermonter (P55) and Adirondack (P68). The Asbury Park Press reported that one year after a power disruption shut down the Northeast Corridor between Washington and New York, Amtrak officials said they have changed equipment settings, and the commuter lines, such as NJ Transit, SEPTA, and MARC have new rules to prevent passengers from being stuck in the middle of nowhere. The details of this outage were reported in the July, 2006 Bulletin. Even with these changes, transit advocates say that much of the infrastructure is essentially the same as it was when the Pennsylvania Railroad constructed it in the 1930s. On July 9, it was not a power failure that caused major delays to morning commuters, but a disabled Amtrak train. As the train I was riding approached Teterboro, I received a phone call from one of my co-workers who was aboard a North Jersey Coast Line train that was stopped east of Secaucus, informing me of the situation and recommending that I ride to Hoboken. Amtrak was single-tracking all service in and out of Penn Station. As I discussed this with my fellow commuters, those with Blackberrys checked them, and sure enough, NJ Transit had sent out emails advising of the delays. The trouble began at approximately 6:30 AM, when Amtrak #190 (3:15 AM Washington, D.C./Boston) became disabled. While this incident was being corrected, at 7:08 AM, a westbound NJ Transit train broke down in the other tube. Both trains were moved by 7:30 AM, but more than 60 trains were delayed between 7 and 44 minutes. MUSEUMS New Orleans Public Service 850, back from its tour of several cities, was “rolled” out for the benefit of members and visitors on Saturday, June 2 at the Shore Line (Branford) Trolley Museum. MISCELLANEOUS Member Joseph Canfield sent an article from The Wall Street Journal reporting that a number of cities are looking to streetcars to revive certain parts of town. Interestingly, the streetcars are not modern LRVs but “heritage” cars. The article starts off by stating that since Tampa’s $63 million, 2.4-mile TECO Line opened in 2002, its financial losses have exceeded all expectations. In fact, ridership declined by 10% last year compared to the previous year. Hillsborough County Commissioner Brian Blair, an opponent of the project, was quoted as saying, “It goes from no place to no-where.” But proponents say that the TECO Line has spurred about $450 million in residential development and retail 13

space, most of it in the Channel District, which was a languishing maritime neighborhood. The cruise ship terminal is one of the stops on this line. There is yet another $450 million in development underway and an additional $1.1 billion in the planning stage. Although “heritage” systems are slower and do not have the speed or capacity of LRV-equipped systems, the fact that they are electrically powered and run on tracks suggests a sense of permanence, whereas bus lines can be changed overnight. In May, Tampa’s City Council voted to extend the line by about ⅓-mile into the downtown area. It is hoped that the line will attract more commuters with expanded hours. City officials still believe the TECO Line is largely a tourist line because more than half of the 389,770 riders last year were visitors. The Kenosha, Wisconsin system, which opened in 2000, helped generate 400 new residential units and allowed redevelopment of a 69-acre industrial site into a waterfront park. Successes have been found in Little Rock, Arkansas, with revitalization of the city’s River Market and warehouse district, and also in Portland, Oregon. Earlier in the last century, ownership of railroad stocks was considered a good investment. About mid-century, that began to change. Now, one of America’s most famous investors and richest men, Warren Buffet, reported that his company Berkshire Hathaway, Incorporated (BRK.A) owned 39 million shares of Burlington Northern Santa Fe, or 10.9%, and as such became its largest stockholder. Mr. Buffet also reported that he also held 6.4 million shares of Norfolk Southern and 10.5 million shares of Union Pacific. In case you are interested in owning Berkshire Hathaway stock, in mid-July, shares were selling for around $110,000 each. INDEPENDENCE DAY (JULY 4) Long Island Rail Road Eight extra trains departed Penn Station between 2:09 and 3:48 PM on July 3, as follows: Port Jefferson Branch, 3, Babylon Branch, 3, and one each on the Port Washington Branch and the Far Rockaway Branches. There were also four additional trains to Montauk and one to Greenport (from Ronkonkoma). Some trains gained extra cars. A holiday schedule was in effect on Wednesday, July 4. Metro-North "Getaway" trains were operated on all three lines, and on Wednesday, July 4th, there were additional trains on all lines as follows: ● Hudson - 10:42 PM from Grand Central Terminal making select stops to Poughkeepsie ● Harlem - 10:53 PM from Grand Central Terminal making upper Harlem Line stops from White Plains, and an 11:14 PM train making select station stops to North White Plains ● New Haven - 5:47 PM express from New Haven, (Continued on page 14)


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and a 6:30 PM local from Stamford, 10:57 PM from Grand Central Terminal train making station stops Stamford through New Haven and an 11 PM from Grand Central Terminal making stops Mount Vernon East through Stamford. NJ Transit Early “Getaway” service, in the form of five additional westbound trains, was operated on the Morris & Essex (1), Northeast Corridor (2), North Jersey Coast (3), and Raritan Valley (1) Lines on Tuesday afternoon, July 3. On July 4, the major holiday/weekend schedule was operated on all lines except for the Montclair-Boonton and Pascack Valley Lines, which presently do not have service on weekends. The Atlantic City Line operated one extra train in each direction. Boston Free rides were provided by MBTA on bus and subway lines on July 4, from 10:30 PM to the end of service. Regular fares were collected on all other modes. The Blue, Green, Orange, and Red lines had extra service for customers heading to and from the Esplanade. Commuter rail trains operated on a Saturday schedule with the last trains departing at 11:45 p.m., which was about 45 minutes after the fireworks display ended. The exception is Train No. 1173 to Newburyport, which departed from North Station at 11:15 PM. Thanks to member Todd Glickman for these reports. Philadelphia SEPTA operated a Sunday schedule, with extra/ extended service on the following lines: R1/Airport, R2/ Warminster and Marcus Hook, R3/Elwyn—11:22 PM (regular train) held until 11:45 PM, R5/Doylestown— 11:25 PM (regular train) held until 11:45 PM, R5/ Malvern, R7/Trenton, and R8/Fox Chase and Chestnut Hill West. WMATA Member Steve Erlitz wrote that once again, the Blue Line was routed to Roslyn (Upper) from Huntington; Yellow from Franconia to Mt. Vernon Square only (no Ft. Totten service); and Orange from Vienna to New Carrolton and Largo. The Green Line had increased service and turned alternating trains at Ft. Totten after 6 PM. Virginia Railway Express Due to a drop in ridership over the last few years, VRE did not operate special "Independence Day Express" service this year which normally takes passengers to see the Fireworks on the Mall in Washington, D.C. VRE reported that ridership went from over 5,000 when they started, to less than 1,000 last year. INDUSTRY Motor Power Industries (MPI) recently obtained orders for 12 new diesel-electric locomotives for commuter service. The Southern California Regional Rail Authority 14

(Metrolink), the Metropolitan Council of Minnesota (Northstar Commuter Line) and MRCOG (RailRunner) each exercised options to each purchase an additional four units as part of a multi-agency procurement. The order is valued at $33 million. Deliveries are to take place between 2008 and 2009. Separately, MPI received an order for 27 new dieselelectric locomotives for GO Transit. This contract comes with an option for 26 additional units, which will eventually replace the current fleet. Deliveries are expected to begin this fall. OTHER TRANSIT SYSTEMS BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS The D Line was shut down for maintenance this summer. This work, which includes tie replacement and elimination of several 10-mile-per-hour slow speed zones is being done in two phases. Phase I – Riverside to Reservoir, began on June 23 and continues through August 3, with work suspended on July 4. Phase II was scheduled for August 4-31, between Reservoir and Fenway. MBTA reported that some of the ties that were to be replaced were between 35 and 40 years of age. During the shutdown, other work is also being performed. This includes brush cutting, cleaning and improving ditches and drainage, rail grinding, surfacing and aligning the track, cleaning the right-of-way, and regrading the ballast. Workers will also replace 14 miles of 50year-old power cable and 6 miles of 35-year-old signal cable. The Longwood and Brookline Village stations will be rebuilt and the Hyde Street Bridge in Newton will be reconstructed. In order to do this work, trolley service was replaced by shuttle busses. During Phase I, shuttle buses operated between Riverside and Reservoir every 5-8 minutes during rush hours and every 8-10 minutes on weekends. Additional buses were operated during rush hours and extra service was provided on the C Line. For Phase II, shuttle buses operate between Reservoir and Fenway every 3-5 minutes during rush hour, and every 4-10 minutes at other times of the day. To keep peace with Boston Red Sox fans attending the 27 games that were scheduled during this period, there was direct service (no stops) between Riverside and Fenway Park. The Boston Globe reported that the bus operation worked on the first day, and while it went relatively smoothly, there were complaints. Some riders told “T” officials that in order to limit delays they should bypass certain unpopular stops or have an express bus run from Newton Centre to Reservoir. The diversion is costing commuters an additional 15 to 20 minutes per trip. It would be fair to say that practically everyone who has been to Boston has heard of Copley Square. However, The Boston Globe reported that the exit of this Green Line Station is actually on Dartmouth Street. Now, with the station undergoing a renovation, many, (Continued on page 15)


NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007 8th and Market to Pier 70 – This would extend SEPTA’s streetcar routes from their present terminal at Juniper Street under Market Street to Front Street, where they would cross over I-95 and travel along the median of Columbus Boulevard, north to Spring Garden Street and south to Pier 70. Later extensions could be made to the stadium complex and to the Navy Yard. Estimated cost: $1 billion (to Pier 70 only) One of our members provided some additional details about this study. “First comes an Alternatives Analysis (18 months); which must be followed by a Draft Environmental Impact Study (12-18 months); then a Final EIS (6 months); then Preliminary Engineering (24 months) then a Full Grant Funding Agreement (after needed sources of funding are found) (6-12 months); the Final Design (12-24 months); and finally Construction (30-36 months). It is estimated that this will all take six to ten years provided approvals are forthcoming at each and every level. It isn’t simple. And this assumes that this project will beat several others in the U.S. for funding. It is a long and uncertain road. “How soon will it be built? The history is not encouraging. This will be the 19th study since 1931 and the fourth study since 1990. To date nothing has been built toward Gloucester County. And not to forget that the West Jersey & Seashore (PRR) electrified the route in 1906 and it operated on 600 v.d.c. until 1949, then diesel until its discontinuance in 1971. A three-track rightof-way between Camden and Woodbury and two tracks beyond, with one freight track in place, remains, just waiting for track to be replaced! And two highway alignments are to be studied in response to input from political leadership. Some NIMBYs don’t want trains running through their communities. They fear that they will run over the children, keep everyone awake all night, and that crime will come into their suburban communities. The NIMBYs know that for fact. It’s a tough road, all uphill.” According to the NJ-ARP web site, The Gloucester County Times reported that the Delaware River Port Authority (DRPA) will spend $180 million over five years to rehabilitate PATCO’s 121-car fleet, and to introduce a "smart-card" system. The amount apparently includes $60 million in federal funding, already earmarked for the project. Most of the funding will be used for a complete overhaul of the rolling stock, much of which dates to 1969. The original suppliers, Budd Company and Vickers, no longer are in the railcar business, making replacement parts difficult for PATCO to obtain. Interior changes include individual, high-back seats instead of a bench seat for two, and an area for wheelchairs in each car. DRPA said a final interior design has not yet been chosen. PATCO also plans to introduce a "Freedom Card," a swipe card comparable to MetroCard or PATH’s Quick●

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including Mayor Thomas M. Menino and Bernard Margolis, President of Boston’s library system, which is located at this station, are calling on MBTA to rename the station Boston Public Library. MBTA has refused to consider their suggestion due to cost considerations, as well as the fact that last year $10,000 was spent to update 637 maps which hang on various walls. Any name change would also have to be made on 100 other Green Line maps. MBTA has no written policy on naming its subway stops, but newer stations, such as the Silver Line's Courthouse and World Trade Center terminals, have been named for prominent buildings nearby. Library officials have raised the name change issue for at least the past five years, but MBTA has continued to argue against it. Other “T” stops have been changed to reflect names of new institutions, including the Hynes Convention Center stop, which was changed from War Memorial Auditorium in 1970. Several have dual names, such as Kendall/MIT, Charles/MGH, and JFK/UMass. MBTA also fears that it could be inundated with other requests for name changes. LINDENWOLD, NEW JERSEY The Delaware River Port Authority, operator of PATCO, has awarded yet another contract to study a proposed expansion of service. The current five options include three proposals to extend the line deeper into South Jersey and two to extend it along Philadelphia's growing waterfront. The study should be completed within the next two years. New Jersey proposals: ● Camden to Williamstown – A new rail line would begin in Camden and travel on the median or the side of I-676 to Route 42 and then follow Route 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway to Williamstown (19 miles). Estimated cost: $1.5 billion ● Camden to Glassboro-Millville – A new rail line to follow I-676 and Route 42 to Route 55. A 24-mile extension to Millville would be added as a second phase. Estimated cost: $1.4 billion (Camden/ Glassboro only) ● Camden to Glassboro-Millville – This proposal would use an existing 18.5-mile Conrail right-ofway to Glassboro, with a possible 22.5-mile extension to Millville as a second phase. Estimated cost: $1.8 billion (Camden/Glassboro only) Philadelphia proposals: ● Old City to Pier 70 – A DRPA-PATCO light-rail route would run from the Franklin Square station (which is currently closed) to Spring Garden Street, then down Columbus Boulevard to the Pier 70 shopping plaza. Later extensions could be made to the stadium complex and to the Navy Yard. Estimated cost: $700 million (to Pier 70 only) 15

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Card, as early as this year. PATCO officials reportedly are open to making the Freedom Card "crosscompatible" with NJ Transit, SEPTA, and Amtrak. PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA SEPTA issued a special R6 timetable for the International Cycling Championship which took place on Sunday, June 10. Trains normally operate hourly, but on this day there was half-hourly service between 8 AM and 5 PM. Thanks to member Gregory Campolo for sending copies. Member David W. Safford, in his report last month, mentioned that the upgrade of R5 Line Track 4 would be extended to Stiles, but at that time I did not know where that was. He has subsequently learned that it is the junction of the Harrisburg Line and former PRR Schuylkill Line, now SEPTA's Cynwyd line. As of early July, new track had been installed up to Bryn Mawr. Ballasting lags behind by one station pretty uniformly. As before, wood ties remain at switch areas. Due to the breakdown of a train at Paoli on June 20, his train was backed from just short of that station to Daylesford, which is, from the standpoint of most commuters, the middle of nowhere. (Up until a few years ago it was still a flag stop for many trains. Then a parking lot was built.) A steady stream of displaced commuters was seen legging it the 1.4 miles to Paoli. Fortunately, he notified his wife and she arrived almost as soon as the train did. A flyer detailing the changes was issued (see below). David also wrote that a $700 million transportation bill is working its way through the legislature in Harrisburg. It is less than the $1 billion that the Governor requested. At this time, it is unstated what proportion will go to mass transit. SEPTA announced major changes in its fare structure, which went into effect on July 9. Member Lee Winson sent this report. Transit Division Base fare of $2 cash and token cost of $1.30 remains the same. Transfers between vehicles are eliminated. Cash or token riders must pay a full new fare upon transfer. Many SEPTA transit routes serve as feeders to the subway-elevated lines; the elimination of the transfer makes for a steep increase for cash or token users. Zone fares on suburban portions of some routes were eliminated. This includes the Route 101/Media trolley, which will become a single zone for the entire route. The DayPass is eliminated and replaced by a OneDay Convenience Pass at a cost of $6. That does not allow a Regional Rail ride and is limited to eight trips in one day. Riders were urged to purchase a weekly or monthly pass for unlimited riding. 16

Railroad Division All fares were increased. Discounted round-trip fares were introduced. Fares purchased on board a train are higher, regardless if there is a ticket office or machine or not. West Trenton, N.J. and Trenton, N.J. are now Zone 6, which has higher fares. Lee also wrote about something many take for granted. “From time to time SEPTA operates shuttle buses to substitute for Regional Rail commuter train service. Sometimes this is scheduled, such as for track maintenance, (and sometimes it is for) an emergency, such as when a line is blocked. Often there is confusion for passengers over where the shuttle bus stop is located near a station. Many stations are served by several streets and parking lots and the location of a shuttle bus stop isn't always clear. Some stops are within the parking lot near the train platform, but others might be on a nearby street corner. SEPTA has posted ‘TRAIN SHUTTLE BUS STOP’ signage at Regional Rail Stations and has asked passengers to look for the signs to know where the bus stop (is) in case there is bus substitution. The signs have the route and direction, e.g. ‘R3 SHUTTLE BUS STOP TO CENTER CITY’ or ‘R7 SHUTTLE BUS STOP TO TRENTON.’” Member Bob Wright sent these comments. A note on the R5 adjusted schedules. Because of track work and related activity on each end, the midday trains have been split and do not run through. Lansdale/Doylestown side trains terminate at 30th Street and Paoli/Thorndale side trains have their last stops at Temple, although they operate out of service to Roberts Yard to relay. On the “L,” the 60th Street station has re-opened and 46th Street closed, so the work continues. From Cinders: On Friday evening, April 20, the Millbourne station, which dates from 1907 (MarketFrankford Line) was permanently closed. It was the last of the historic wooden-platform “L” stations, which was actually at ground level. It’s replacement will be ADA compliant and is expected to take one year to build. None of the Silverliner Vs have been delivered yet, but SEPTA is thinking about replacements for its aging 231-car Silverliner IV fleet. This group of cars are “near relatives” of the NJ Transit’s Arrow IIs, which have been retired since 1998. BALTIMORE, MARYLAND Citing a heavy demand for rail service, officials in Cecil County, Maryland are pushing for an expansion of MARC service to Elkton. Currently, MARC service terminates in Perryville, which is 14 miles south of Elkton. Taking this one step further, others would like to see the service extended to Newark, Delaware, where a number of weekday SEPTA trains terminate/begin their runs. The Elkton extension is supported by Maryland’s Governor O’Malley. Thanks to Cinders for this report. (Continued on page 17)


NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007 Commuter and Transit Notes (Continued from page 16)

WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA MARC issued new timetables for the Brunswick Line as of June 20. Steve Erlitz, who sent copies, wrote that only the date changed. Virginia Railway Express made a policy change on July 1 concerning its free ride certificate (FRC) program. FRCs are no longer being distributed when trains are 30 minutes late. Instead, they will be handed out for any train 60 or more minutes late. Other important changes that were made to the FRC program are as follows: ● FRCs will no longer be exchanged after their expiration date ● Conductors will distribute FRCs at the time of their delay. If they are unable to do so, they will not distribute them the next day. Instead, FRC requests will be handled by mail. Mail-in information can be found on their website at http://www.vre.org/ programs/freeride.htm ● If FRCs are passed out at the time of the delay, but a passenger is overlooked and does not receive one, that passenger should follow up with the Conductor before leaving the train ● VRE will reserve the right to deny a written request for any reason Also on July 1, the Step-Up fare to utilize the Amtrak cross-honor service for VRE ticket holders went from $2 to $10. Those passengers with $2 Step-Up tickets are now required to give the Conductor five of them to ride the Amtrak trains and Conductors are not in a position to accept less than five $2 tickets. Those who were lacking $10 worth of tickets could mail in a check to VRE, which would send them what they required. In early June, VRE issued a request for proposals to lease three F-40PH diesel locomotives, without an option to purchase, for four years. VRE is willing to pay $185 per day, along with a number of other conditions. This year marks VRE’s 15th anniversary. Service to Manassas began on June 22, 1992 and to Fredericksburg on July 20, 1992. To commemorate this milestone,

(Continued from page 1) 125th Street

34th Street

116th Street

23rd Street

106th Street

14th Street

96th Street

Houston Street

86th Street

Grand Street

nd

Chatham Square

th

Seaport

nd

Hanover Square

55 Street 42 Street

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If construction proceeds according to schedule, T trains should be running in 2020.

Second Avenue Subway

72 Street

the transit agency is sponsoring an essay and a trivia contest. Prizes are being awarded. WMATA reported that for FY 2007, which ended June 30, almost 208 million customers rode Metrorail, which represents a 1.1% increase or 2 million more riders than in FY 2006. The average weekday ridership for FY 2007 was 702,171, the first time the average weekday ridership topped 700,000. CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA Apparently not everyone in Charlotte is happy with the proposed LRT line that is scheduled to open in November. According to a report on WCNC.com, a grass-roots group has secured enough signatures on a petition to place a question on the ballot this November to repeal Mecklenburg County’s half-cent transit tax, which funds the light rail project. 48,765 registered voters signed the petition, which is 100 more than were needed. Thanks to Bob Kingman for sending this report. SOUTH FLORIDA Ridership results for the first few days of the new schedules which took place on June 4, showed an increase of about 400 riders, or + 3.8%. The new weekday schedules offer rush hour headways of 20 or 30 minutes, for a total of 50 daily trains. Tri-Rail officials reported that in the summer, ridership typically drops about 2,000 per day. Thanks to member Karl Groh for sending this report from The Palm Beach Post. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS It is almost unheard of, but there is now a new fiveyear labor agreement in effect which affects 10,200 Chicago Transit Authority employees who make up 88 percent of the workforce. The agreement covers the period of January 1, 2007 through December 31, 2011. It was achieved through an expedited arbitration process between the CTA and its 17 labor unions which has resolved their pension and health care problems. There will be 3% salary increases for the first three years, which will become 3.5% in the final two years. CTA also announced that it has undertaken an aggressive program to remove eight miles of slow speed zones on branches of two of its busiest rail lines, the

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NEW 2000 NEW YORK YORK DIVISION DIVISIONBULLETIN BULLETIN -OCTOBER, AUGUST, 2007 Utah Transit Authority’s commuter-rail maintenance facility at 900 North and 500 West in Salt Lake City. This facility will also rebuild the LRVs that were purchased from VTA in San Jose, and have been on the property since 2004. PHOENIX, ARIZONA From Sid Keyles: “During trips to Phoenix that were made in March and June, I noticed you can get a quick view of some Phoenix LRVs in the new yard. Sky Harbor Airport has two sets of parallel east-west runways, one set on the south side of the airport, the other on the north. If you are landing from the east (or taking off to the east), the new yard and maintenance base is slightly south of the northerly set of runways, just due east of the airport. Thus, if you are flying in from the east, you can see the yard and base from the righthand side of a plane landing on the south runway or from the left-hand side of the plane landing on the north runway. “In any event, on my June visit, I was in the correct window seat both landing and taking off and spotted four or five of the light rail vehicles in the yard. It looked like there were many others there but fully enclosed in tarps. I don't know whether there has been any testing outside of the yard yet, but the system is not scheduled to open until December, 2008. Right now, most of the tracks have been laid in the downtown area, but considerable construction remains. One side of the central bus terminal is out of use due to track construction.” Recently, the city of Phoenix, the owner and operator of the city’s Sky Harbor International Airport, opened a state-of-the-art rental car center to the west of the main terminals. At the same time, it began providing a shuttle bus service to this site, eliminating the privately operated rental car vans that proliferate at most airports. One of the major benefits is that there has been a reduction in traffic congestion. The city intends to provide a similar service to the nearby light rail station at 44th Street and Washington Avenue when Valley Metro Rail begins operating. Service is expected to begin in December, 2008. Thanks to Bus Ride for this report. SEATTLE, WASHINGTON Todd Glickman sent this update on the airport rail link, which he saw during early July. “Driving south along I-5 from Seattle to SEA-TAC Airport, one can now see many miles of completed elevated concrete structure just to the west of the Interstate. In many places, I could see that track has been laid, and there were some hirail trucks on the track. There was one elevated station structure that looked well underway just outside the airport limits. But on the airport property, the structure has not yet been built -- formed concrete blocks were still sitting on the ground. There is much auto roadway construction underway I would suppose to permit the elevated to be constructed in the near future. Signage says that it is slated to open ‘Summer 2009.’"

Commuter and Transit Notes (Continued from page 17)

north branch of the Red Line and the subway portion of the O’Hare branch of the Blue Line. The subway portion of the Blue Line work is underway and will be completed by mid-September, and the Red Line work will be completed by year-end. Riders should see improvements in running time. Thanks to Bob Hansen for these reports. MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN Kenosha’s mayor, John Antaramian, is seeking support for the proposed Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee (KRM) commuter line. This would be a 33-mile extension of the present UP North Line from Chicago. Earlier this year, the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority (SWRTA) recommended that this project be funded by a (steep) increase in the rental car fee, from $2 to $15, in these counties, which have the same name as their respective cities. Milwaukee officials are against raising the sales tax to pay for this project. Also under consideration is whether to approve a set of landuse plans predicting how much and what types of development would spring up around the KRM train stations proposed for Milwaukee. The plans are part of the package that will be sent to the Federal Transit Administration within the next few weeks to request federal funding for the KRM project. MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA The Metropolitan Council of the Twin Cities has selected a consultant to begin the preliminary engineering study for the Central Corridor light rail line, which would connect the downtowns of St. Paul and Minneapolis. As proposed, the line would be 11 miles long and have 16 new stations. Five of the existing stations from the Hiawatha Line would also be used. Thirty-one new LRVs would be needed. In today’s dollars, the project’s cost is $930 million. If all approvals (government and local) and financing are in place, construction could start in 2010, with service operating in 2014. SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH The 29 Comet Is that had been in Binghamton, New York, departed westbound on June 19, en route for rebuilding in Colorado. All of the car numbers were reported in the July Bulletin. According to a report on the Internet, ten will go into service in Salt Lake City after rebuilding, and ten will be loaned immediately for use in Los Angeles. There was no information about the remaining nine cars. Bob Kingman found a photo on the Internet that shows one of Union Pacific diesel locomotive pulling the entire 29 cars around a curve. It was quite a dramatic shot. Member Barry Zuckerman found this report on the Internet from The Deseret News about the Comets. During April, Bombardier announced that it planned to open a rehabilitation facility in Utah to refurbish dozens of used rail cars. The company will begin work at the

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NEW YORK DIVISION BULLETIN - AUGUST, 2007 Commuter and Transit Notes (Continued from page 18)

On June 8, Washington Governor Chris Gregoire and British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell announced an agreement among Washington State, British Columbia, BNSF Railway Company (BNSF) and Amtrak to make infrastructure improvements that will permit a second daily Amtrak Cascades train between Seattle and Vancouver, British Columbia. The Province of British Columbia, Amtrak, and BNSF are funding this $7 million project, which includes construction of an 11,000-foot siding track near Colebrook Road in Delta, British Columbia. This additional service could begin operating next summer. Construction was scheduled to begin underway soon. In 1995, Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) and Amtrak began operating a single daily round-trip train between Seattle and Vancouver. In 1999, WSDOT and Amtrak added another daily roundtrip train between Seattle and Bellingham, Washington. This second train went into service with the expectation it would be extended to Vancouver, B.C. once rail line improvements were added in British Columbia. When the new service begins operations, Amtrak Cascades Train #513 will depart from Vancouver in the morning, travel to Seattle, and then continue on to Portland, Oregon. Each afternoon, Train #516 will depart Portland, travel to Seattle, and then continue on to Vancouver, B.C. This service will supplement the existing round trip service between Seattle and Vancouver. Thanks to Bob Hansen for this report. PORTLAND, OREGON Tri-Met, the operator of MAX, reported that ridership was up 5.8% in May, which set a new record of 110,300 average weekday trips. The increase is up from 104,300 weekday boarding’s last May. Weekday ridership on the Yellow Line increased 17.2 percent to 13,600 trips. Blue and Red line weekday ridership were up a combined 4.3 percent. SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, CALIFORNIA In October, 2001, my wife and I visited Yosemite National Park, Lake Tahoe, and San Francisco. In South Lake Tahoe, we found the yard, which held a number of former SF Muni PCCs. This was reported in the November, 2001 Bulletin. These cars were purchased by a man named Gunnar Henrioulle. Frank Pfuhler sent a link (http://telstarlogistics.typepad.com/ telstarlogistics/2007/03/the_lost_street.html) that provided some of the history. Mr. Henrioulle was the highbidder when Muni disposed of its last PCCs in late 1982. He proposed to use a dozen rehabbed PCCs to form the basis of a sustainable energy (solar and hydroelectric) public transit system, operating under the name of Tahoe Valley Lines in South Lake Tahoe. The route would have connected the airport with resorts at Stateline, Nevada and Lake Tahoe. A few years ago, he 19

sold four of the cars back to SF Muni (1027 was one of the group), which will return them to service on the F/ Market Street Line. San Diego also acquired a pair. This past April, he sold 1113, 1127, 1145, 1148 and four other cars, the numbers of which are presently unknown, to a developer in St. Charles, Missouri who plans to restore them and then use them as diners, cafés, sushi bars, or bookstores. Some cars were previously sold to Savannah, Georgia. The web site reported that 1101 was the only SF Muni car left in South Lake Tahoe. This part of southern California was subjected to a series of wildfires, and member John Pappas forwarded this information from Mr. Henrioulle. The fire disaster missed the streetcar lair. Only (SF Muni) 1101, Toronto 4404, and the double-end remodeled 102435 are still up there. SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA Members Bob and Judy Matten visited San Francisco in early July, and Bob had comments about the service change information published in the July Bulletin. One of their goals was to ride the new T Line, which they took to reach the Caltrain Station at 4th and Townsend. En route, the car was so delayed by street traffic that they missed the last Baby Bullet (Express) and had to ride a local to San Jose. Bob later learned that the service changes were supposed to ease up the congestion, and to a certain extent they did; nonetheless, T Line cars are still being delayed. Another casualty of this problem is that implementation of the proposed E Line, which was supposed to be operated from Fisherman’s Wharf to the Caltrain station, has been delayed indefinitely. Bob sent a brochure that a new trolleybus route, 20/ Columbus, operates over the same streets as the 30/ Stockton and 41/Union. Bob says this needed because 30/Stockton is the most heavily used line in San Francisco. 20/Columbus only operates on weekdays. Caltrain’s latest timetable is dated April 2, 2007. TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA In early June, work began to construct a third track along the Lakeshore Line as part of the Lakeshore West Rail Corridor Expansion project. This track will be placed between Mississauga and Oakville, and extend platforms at the Oakville, Port Credit, and Clarkson stations to accommodate 12-car trains. In the May, 2007 Bulletin, I wrote about plans for a major expansion of Toronto’s streetcar system. Now comes word that the Ontario government is launching a multi-year, $17.5 billion rapid transit action plan for the Greater Toronto area and Hamilton. Under a program titled MOVEONTARIO 2020, 560 miles of new or improved rapid transit will be built starting in 2008. It will create 175,000 jobs during construction and deliver 52 rapid transit projects including: ● Electrification of GO Transit’s Lakeshore Line (Continued on page 20)


NEW 2000 NEW YORK YORK DIVISION DIVISIONBULLETIN BULLETIN -OCTOBER, AUGUST, 2007

Around New York’s Transit System Special Announcement for Atlantic Avenue Discontinued Conductors on 4 and 5 trains had been required to announce (or play an announcement on R-142 and R142A equipment) that wheelchair customers who wanted to get off at Atlantic Avenue had to be in the front section of northbound trains or the rear section of southbound trains, or transfer to a 2 or 3 train at Franklin Avenue or Nevins Street, respectively. This was because one of the stairways on the middle platform at Atlantic Avenue was too wide for wheelchairs to pass safely. However, after some remedial construction, this is no longer necessary, and a bulletin was recently issued stating that crews should no longer make/play that announcement. MTA Checks Cracks in Buildings on Second Avenue An MTA contractor is installing measurement grids to detect cracks in buildings before Second Avenue Subway construction starts. About 30 monitors have been installed in buildings on Second Avenue between E. 91st and E. 95th Streets. More monitors will be installed in buildings as work proceeds southward. When IRT platforms were extended in the late 1940s, a Board of Transportation Engineer inspected the buildings near the excavation and dictated his observations to a Stenographer who accompanied him. When the work was completed, the Engineer and his Stenographer made their final inspection of the buildings. Passenger Traffic Statistics The 2006 subway ridership is as follows: ● Annual: 1.49 billion

● Average weekday: 4.8 million ● Average Saturday: 2.7 million ● Average Sunday: 2.1 million The 2006 annual ridership is the highest in 50 years. Mayor Bloomberg’s congestion pricing plan is expected to increase ridership by 2 percent. Subway ridership should increase if the city’s population grows by 1 million over the next two decades as predicted. Energy Conservation To conserve energy, train crews must turn off the following equipment on revenue cars that are stored in yards or on storage tracks. ● Main car body lights should be turned off by using the momentary switch controlling the entire train. This switch is in an operating cab ● Heat, ventilation, and air-conditioning systems should also be turned off by using the momentary switch in an operating cab All high-voltage circuit breakers must be cut-in at all times. Subway Riders’ Report Cards During the second week of July, NYC Transit asked 7 riders to grade each aspect of service. These Rider Report Cards list 21 specific areas, including car and station cleanliness, safety, security, quality of announcements, courtesy and helpfulness of employees, and an overall grade. Top management would like to organize NYC Transit so that each grade will be identified with a specific manager and his/her team. Because top management would like to know what the riders want re-

Commuter and Transit Notes

dropped out. A TTC spokesman said the specifications for the new LRVs are “very demanding due to the nature of our existing non-LRT streetcar system. We have extremely sharp curves and single-bladed track turnouts that are going to pose problems for any existing low-floor truck. Other complications include the requirement for the new cars to not only be able to handle an 8% grade, but also push a disabled car up that grade.” As for the new lines in TTCs Transit City proposal, “these would be built to much higher, contemporary, LRT standards.” FROM THE HISTORY FILES 95 Years Ago: On August 26, 1912, the high-speed line was extended from the Strafford Line at Villanova to Norristown. 80 Years Ago: On August 1, 1927, the Staten Island Midland Railways ended service. News items and comments concerning this column may be emailed to NYDnewseditor@aol.com

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Increasing speed and reducing emissions by electrifying the GO Lakeshore Line and expanding capacity on all GO lines ● The extension of the Yonge Street Subway to Highway 7 ● Expanded express bus service across Highway 407 ● Two rapid transit lines across Hamilton and Toronto's Transit City vision for light rail across the city Thanks to John Pappas for this report. Railway Age reported that six builders have expressed an interest in bidding on 204 new low-floor LRVs that the Toronto Transit Commission is planning to order next year. They are: AnsaldoBreda, Bombardier, Mytram, Siemens, Skoda, and Vossloh-Kiepe. Kinkisharyo had also expressed interest but has since 20

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