two-hour conversation with Larry, and at
there was no fine arts program. But
the end of it you would have absolutely
when I became a sophomore, they
no idea what he thought about your
started something called the general arts
work. But, you knew so much more about
program that George Bunker led. It really
what you thought and carried away
was fine arts. In those days, the school
suggestions to think about and art to
was best known as a design school, and
look at. That’s how he functioned.
perhaps they didn’t want to admit they were adding a fine arts major. Eventually,
WV: Not judgmental?
when people got comfortable with the
RF: Never judgmental. He would ask
idea that PCA had fine arts, they called
questions. Did you ever think about this?
it that; and later they broke it down into
Do you know this artist? Have you ever
painting, sculpture, and printmaking
read this book? He was never trying to
departments (they always had all three
create little “Larrys.” He was against that
among the courses they gave). I think
philosophically.
later still there was a drawing major. I don’t remember the years of all these
WV: Peter Paone, whose show will
changes. Larry taught at PCA, as did
overlap this exhibition at Woodmere in
Leonard. And Dennis, Doris, Mitzi, Natalie,
the fall, talks of Larry as being one of the
Eileen, Sidney. And so did I.
profound teachers who helped him find WV: A final question: my understanding
his voice.
is that Jimmy was “out” as a gay man in RF: Peter was my freshman design
the 1960s and 1970s. Was he comfortable
teacher, in 1958–59. I think it was Peter’s
with being a gay person in the arts
first year of teaching.
community? In Philadelphia?
WV: Sidney was Larry’s student, too, yes?
AM: Jimmy was open and comfortable enough with himself that we could kid
RF: Yes, Sidney was a student of Larry’s,
about his love life the way we kidded
like Peter and Eileen at PCA. They were
about our own loves and lovers. He
a few years ahead of me. I think they
would throw kisses to us across the
all studied illustration. When I started, 120