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Join Date: May 2009 Bigjay66

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Please help me understand this?

Please help me understand why this is a reserve piece that's not swiss made, like Invicta has always preeched. I thought all reserve time pieces were swiss made and hand assembled??? Please give me better understanding, to what is happening on now???

Thank You, Invicta Men's Reserve Ocean Speedway Automatic Chronograph Stainless Steel Bracelet Watch J401750 ShopNBC Price: $965.00 Retail value: $1,595.00


Invicta Men's Reserve Ocean Speedway Automatic Chronograph Stainless Steel Bracelet Watch Invicta's Reserve Speedway stylishly completes your ensemble, regardless of where you are headed! The round silver-tone stainless steel case shows a charcoal unidirectional rotating bezel. A special exhibition back reveals the Japanese NE78A Automatic Chronograph movement w/ 34 jewels. The round black carbon fiber dial displays luminous Tritnite index markers in all hour positions. Tritnite hour, minute and chronograph hands point out the time with ease. A seconds subdial near 2:00, an hour subdial near 6:00 and a minute subdial near 10:00 complete the composition. An extended date window appears from 4:00 to 5:00. The silver-tone stainless steel bracelet secures with a push button dual deployant clasp. Versatile and ready for every occasion, Invicta's Reserve Speedway can now be a staple in your look! Trend alert: Exhibition Backs Exhibition case backs reveal the intricate symphony of moving rotors, gears, and springs which power an automatic timepiece. The open design offers a first-hand, insider's view that is becoming increasingly popular. The distinct style appeals to veteran watch aficionados and a new generation of horologists looking for up-to-the-minute designs. Bracelet: Stainless Steel Movement: Japanese NE78A Automatic Chronograph w/ 34 jewels


Crystal: Flame Fusion Crown: Push/Pull w/ Function Pushers Clasp: Push Button Dual Deployant Bracelet Measurements: 9" L x 24mm W Case Measurements: 47mm Water Resistance: 10 ATM - 100 meters - 330 feet Model Number: 0741 UPC: 843836007412 Warranty: This timepiece comes with a five year warranty from Invicta, which should be activated by registering on Invicta's website. If you choose not to register the watch online, please keep your original ShopNBC invoice. This must be included if the watch is sent in for repair. Additional Features: Watch comes packaged in Invicta watch box two, including instruction manual and warranty information. To view the actual case size, Click Here.

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Bigjay66 View Public Profile Send a private message to Bigjay66 Send email to Bigjay66 Find all posts by Bigjay66 Add Bigjay66 to Your Contacts #2 Yesterday, 02:12 AM Join Date: Jan 2009 jackievictor

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Things have changed. It started with the Lupah Reserve. Why? I don't know. But, it did. __________________


Victor

jackievictor View Public Profile Send a private message to jackievictor Find all posts by jackievictor Add jackievictor to Your Contacts #3 Yesterday, 02:13 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Originally Posted by meijin Great news folks! Eyal has been in meetings with SNBC all week getting ready for the upcoming Spring Forward event next month. One of the things to come out of those meetings is a surprise deal on the Ocean Speedway and it is going to release tomorrow with a very special and unexpected price! This incredible new Reserve piece boasts the SII NE78A automatic chronograph movement. This is a very new and VERY expensive (more than a Valjoux 7750) 36,000 vph high-beat automatic chronograph movement. This movement was developed by the same team that brought you the Seiko Spring Drive (SII being a part of Seiko). This is one I cannot wait to present! Quote: Originally Posted by meijin Nope, that was never said. As a matter of fact, Eyal himself said on air when the Reserve Lupah debuted just the opposite. That would always put the best we can into the Reserve line and that would not always be Swiss movements...as is the case with the NE78A. Quote: Originally Posted by meijin No...we have used non-Swiss movements in other Reserve watches. As I have already stated in this thread. The Reserve Lupah had the SII NE20 automatic in it almost 2 years ago. Case in point is the upcoming tourbillons that we have coming out. Reserve pieces with totally customized Chinese tourbillons. Quote: Originally Posted by meijin Not all Reserve pieces are Swiss Made. For instance, we put the Seiko NE20 into the Reserve Lupah. Built the same way in the same factories, but such a movement prevents the watch from qualifying as Swiss Made. Quote: Originally Posted by meijin Not hardly. Quite the opposite actually. This watch operates at 36,000 beats per hour. Other similar


movements (such as the Valjoux 7750) operate at 28,800 beats per hour or lower. The only major brands putting out such high-beat movements are Zenith and Favre-Leuba. Chopard (and I believe a few others) have some in the works, but are not on the market yet. TAG's 360 chronograph is a high-beat, but it uses a Zenith calibre movement in it. Quote: Originally Posted by meijin Hmmmm...really? Except that it has already been done. Almost two years ago with another very high end movement. Reserve Lupah. .. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!

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#4 Yesterday, 02:16 AM Join Date: Feb 2008 meijin Location: Atlanta, GA WatchGeeks Managing Director Posts: 12,042 True WatchGeek Real Name: Michael

I am sorry that you are mistaken concerning the Reserve timepieces. Not all of them are Swiss made and this has been the case for some time. Case in point, the Reserve Lupah that we released almost two years ago. Made the same way in the same factories as the Swiss made versions, but with a non-Swiss movement. That one used the SII NE20 movement. Non-Swiss movement, not a Swiss Made watch. And it will be the same in the future. Take for example our customized tourbillons that we have coming out. They are Chinese tourbillons going into Reserve watches. Same factories and methods, but with a nonSwiss movement. Therefore, not a Swiss Made timepiece. The vast majority of the Reserve pieces are Swiss made. But, when it comes to a movement as special as the SII NE78A, then (as Eyal says) we are going to put it in the best and most appropriate watch. Hope that helps you. __________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!


meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #5 Yesterday, 02:29 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 alwaystenpastten

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There are many, many threads regarding what many loyal Invicta customers regard as the lowered standards of the Reserve line, which initially was touted as all Swiss Made, hand assembled, small production numbers, sapphire crystals, only Swiss movements, and so on. For the few who know best. As Victor said, things have changed for Invicta Reserve. The prices on Reserve watches have also gone down. And this has been the case for a while now, it's not a brand-new change. But for the sake of education, enjoy this video from one of the very first Reserve shows. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34530240832555 __________________ Keep your crowns screwed down, my friends.


alwaystenpastten View Public Profile Send a private message to alwaystenpastten Find all posts by alwaystenpastten Add alwaystenpastten to Your Contacts #6 Yesterday, 02:34 AM Join Date: Aug 2009 watchayla1 Location: Iowa Senior Member Posts: 3,790 Master WatchGeek Real Name: Rick

Quote: Originally Posted by meijin I am sorry that you are mistaken concerning the Reserve timepieces. Not all of them are Swiss made


and this has been the case for some time. Case in point, the Reserve Lupah that we released almost two years ago. Made the same way in the same factories as the Swiss made versions, but with a non-Swiss movement. That one used the SII NE20 movement. Non-Swiss movement, not a Swiss Made watch. And it will be the same in the future. Take for example our customized tourbillons that we have coming out. They are Chinese tourbillons going into Reserve watches. Same factories and methods, but with a nonSwiss movement. Therefore, not a Swiss Made timepiece. The vast majority of the Reserve pieces are Swiss made. But, when it comes to a movement as special as the SII NE78A, then (as Eyal says) we are going to put it in the best and most appropriate watch. Hope that helps you. I own the reserve lupah, and I'm happy to own it AND the m'ment inside of it is just fine with me. Some Japan autos work excellent --- this is JMO. __________________ WATCHES = FUN

watchayla1 View Public Profile Send a private message to watchayla1 Send email to watchayla1 Find all posts by watchayla1 Add watchayla1 to Your Contacts #7 Yesterday, 02:44 AM jimmyv

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Quote: Originally Posted by watchayla1 I own the reserve lupah, and I'm happy to own it AND the m'ment inside of it is just fine with me. Some Japan autos work excellent --- this is JMO. Totally agree and the only reason I sold mine was with the Sandstone it ended up being more on the dressy side and I just didn't wear it much. I really like that movement in the reserve Lupah though and it was very accurate and would like to see it in other watches at some point.

jimmyv View Public Profile Send a private message to jimmyv Find all posts by jimmyv Add jimmyv to Your Contacts #8 Yesterday, 02:45 AM Join Date: Feb 2008 meijin Location: Atlanta, GA WatchGeeks Managing Director Posts: 12,042 True WatchGeek Real Name: Michael


Quote: Originally Posted by alwaystenpastten There are many, many threads regarding what many loyal Invicta customers regard as the lowered standards of the Reserve line, which initially was touted as all Swiss Made, hand assembled, small production numbers, sapphire crystals, only Swiss movements, and so on. For the few who know best. As Victor said, things have changed for Invicta Reserve. And this has been the case for a while now, it's not a brand-new change. But for the sake of education, enjoy this video from one of the very first Reserve shows. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34530240832555 Well, the only problem with your post and that video is that it is never said that every Reserve watch was going to be Swiss Made. The only difference with watches like the Reserve Lupah and the Ocean Speedway is the movement. In the case of the Ocean Speedway, this is a very complex, very difficult to get, very expensive and very exclusive movement (the NE78A). Everything else is built that same way as a Swiss Made Reserve. Same people are making them. Same materials are used in them. Same factories are used. The only difference is the movement. If you feel as though that the used of a movement like the NE78A is some how down grading the Reserve line, then feel free not to purchase it. As for Invicta, we will still continue to put the best movements in these watches like the SII NE78A. __________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

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Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #9 Yesterday, 02:46 AM steiner

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This is a good post for those, like myself that thought they heard the original definition of the Reserve line and how that differs from "todays" version.

steiner View Public Profile Send a private message to steiner Find all posts by steiner Add steiner to Your Contacts #10 Yesterday, 03:00 AM


Join Date: May 2010 DIRTY_S30 Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI Senior Member Posts: 314 Senior Geek Real Name: Rafael

All I have to say is stop buying watches just because of the words on the dial. Do you even know how much a Seiko spring drive goes for? This movement must be pretty nice. __________________

DIRTY_S30 View Public Profile Send a private message to DIRTY_S30 Send email to DIRTY_S30 Find all posts by DIRTY_S30 Add DIRTY_S30 to Your Contacts #11 Yesterday, 03:17 AM


Join Date: Feb 2008 meijin Location: Atlanta, GA WatchGeeks Managing Director Posts: 12,042 True WatchGeek Real Name: Michael

Quote: Originally Posted by DIRTY_S30 All I have to say is stop buying watches just because of the words on the dial. Do you even know how much a Seiko spring drive goes for? This movement must be pretty nice. Just to be clear here...the NE78A is NOT a type of Spring Drive movement. There are connections via the team that developed the Spring Drive, but it is not the same technology. I just want to make sure that everyone is clear on that. __________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

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Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #12 Yesterday, 03:29 AM Join Date: May 2009 Bigjay66

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Thank You MIKE for giving me a better understanding!!!!!!!!!!!

Bigjay66 View Public Profile Send a private message to Bigjay66 Send email to Bigjay66 Find all posts by Bigjay66 Add Bigjay66 to Your Contacts #13 Yesterday, 05:08 AM


Join Date: May 2010 DIRTY_S30 Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI Senior Member Posts: 314 Senior Geek Real Name: Rafael

Quote: Originally Posted by meijin Just to be clear here...the NE78A is NOT a type of Spring Drive movement. There are connections via the team that developed the Spring Drive, but it is not the same technology. I just want to make sure that everyone is clear on that. Thanks Mike, I understood that was just pointing out or least trying to is that if there are team connections between the spring drive technology and the NE78A than the NE78A would have to be one hell of a movement to be in the Reserve collection making the swiss made on the dial the minor factor. __________________

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Send email to DIRTY_S30 Find all posts by DIRTY_S30 Add DIRTY_S30 to Your Contacts #14 Yesterday, 08:30 AM Join Date: Jan 2009 jackievictor

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Quote: Originally Posted by meijin Well, the only problem with your post and that video is that it is never said that every Reserve watch was going to be Swiss Made. The only difference with watches like the Reserve Lupah and the Ocean Speedway is the movement. In the case of the Ocean Speedway, this is a very complex, very difficult to get, very expensive and very exclusive movement (the NE78A). Everything else is built that same way as a Swiss Made Reserve. Same people are making them. Same materials are used in them. Same factories are used. The only difference is the movement. If you feel as though that the used of a movement like the NE78A is some how down grading the Reserve line, then feel free not to purchase it. As for Invicta, we will still continue to put the best movements in these watches like the SII NE78A. Just to be clear in my own mind, are you saying that it was never said on air that the Reserve line would be all "Swiss Made"? Personally, I absolutely no problem with changing the direction of the Reserve line, but I'm pretty sure that it was said on air that the Reserve line was all Swiss Made. __________________


Victor

jackievictor View Public Profile Send a private message to jackievictor Find all posts by jackievictor Add jackievictor to Your Contacts #15 Yesterday, 08:46 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 ucdavisboy Location: Sacramento, CA Senior Member Posts: 970 Veteran Geek Real Name: Will

It was never said quote un-quote that "all Invicta Reserve are Swiss Made". What HAS been said (up until as recently as LAST WEEK on air) has been "you are buying into the Reserve line which means all Swiss


Made, all hand assembled" etc. That phrasing translates to "you buy X, you get X". It doesn't say "on THIS X watch, you get THIS X" rather it infers a generalization to ALL items in that line. It would be nice if generalizations regarding the Reserve line be avoided when presenting or talking about them so that this confusion does not keep happening. It doesn't personally bother me because I do a lot of research on anything I buy so I know what I'm buying inside and out before I do, but for some they hear that and assume all Reserve pieces carry those traits....and there is no reason they shouldn'tbecause that's the way its being phrased. __________________ "I am tired of being asked to pretend stupid is a virtue."

ucdavisboy View Public Profile Send a private message to ucdavisboy Find all posts by ucdavisboy Add ucdavisboy to Your Contacts #16 Yesterday, 10:12 AM Join Date: Jul 2009 jwin66 Location: Philadelphia, PA Senior Member Posts: 1,041 Super Geek Real Name: Jon

Most reserve Timepieces..at least the ones I have, are Swiss Made....For the movement, alone you should buy this timepiece.. Jon


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jwin66 View Public Profile Send a private message to jwin66 Send email to jwin66 Find all posts by jwin66 Add jwin66 to Your Contacts #17 Yesterday, 12:03 PM Join Date: Jun 2008 kramer5150 Posts: 2,000 Senior Member Real Name: Garrett Super Geek


Quote: Originally Posted by jackievictor Just to be clear in my own mind, are you saying that it was never said on air that the Reserve line would be all "Swiss Made"? Personally, I absolutely no problem with changing the direction of the Reserve line, but I'm pretty sure that it was said on air that the Reserve line was all Swiss Made.

I know I have heard countless times Both Jim and Eyal say "What you are getting with a Reserve timepiece.... hand assembled, Swiss Made....". Clearly the implication (at least how I had perceived it) is that the Reserve line as a whole is Swiss Made. Whether or not they were actually presenting a Swiss Made watch (in hand) at that moment is irrelevant. The commentary was made as a general statement for all Reserve pieces. To the OP... you have to treat each piece on a case-by case basis. Personally, I do not really care one way or another where the IR comes from, so long as it represents the best of Invicta (which I think it still does). FWIW some of my best timepieces come from Japan and China (Citizen and Android respectively). But there ARE collectors who value swiss made pieces in their collection, and I completely respect that too. __________________ The WatchBox Review Series

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Yesterday, 12:09 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 Chief68

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Most times they are Swiss Made but nothing is 100% , the fact what Eyal always says is the Best materials available to them are used in the Reserve line , Hand Made and Assembled by certain members of the staff (ONLY) . The fact is if it is not a swiss movement used in the Reserve watch you can be sure the movement that is used will be a real good one. __________________

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Send a private message to Chief68 Send email to Chief68 Visit Chief68's homepage! Find all posts by Chief68 Add Chief68 to Your Contacts #19 Yesterday, 02:45 PM iheartomega

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I hate to say this who says "Swiss Made" is the best, Renato has shown that Chinese made can be very good, or take a look at the chinese tourbillion's even Invicta is using them. __________________ If Jim does it I do it

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Send a private message to iheartomega Find all posts by iheartomega Add iheartomega to Your Contacts #20 Yesterday, 03:21 PM Bigmac

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Quote: Originally Posted by DIRTY_S30 Thanks Mike, I understood that was just pointing out or least trying to is that if there are team connections between the spring drive technology and the NE78A than the NE78A would have to be one hell of a movement to be in the Reserve collection making the swiss made on the dial the minor factor. Rafael, Don't know if I would consider the Ronda 515 quartz movement to be a hell of a movement... but I do consider the Reserve Excursion with the 515 quartz movement to be a hell of a watch. Bryan

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Find all posts by Bigmac Add Bigmac to Your Contacts #21 Yesterday, 03:30 PM RipitRon

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I sure love how people like too twist what is said on the air....In all reality Who gives a *&^# where it is made really? Buy it if you like it, and dont buy it if you dont like it. The bottom line is this....its a watch! Incredible we should call this place the Sewing Circle not Watchgeeks! __________________ Hmmmmmmm. I can't say what I want to say!

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Join Date: Feb 2008 meijin Location: Atlanta, GA WatchGeeks Managing Director Posts: 12,042 True WatchGeek Real Name: Michael

OK...so two sections to this... First, how I present Reserve watches... When I present a Reserve piece and reference Swiss Made, I refer to the particular watch I am showing. I have never made the comment that all Reserve watches are Swiss Made. As a matter of fact, when I have presented the "F" series watches, I have made very sure to NOT reference them in this manner. Now, prior to me going to work for Invicta when Eyal was presenting them, I never once heard him say that they would all be Swiss Made in the future. Was he referencing Swiss Made on them because at that time, they were all Swiss Made. What else could you say about them? And I don't ever recall Eyal ever saying that every Reserve watch in the future would be Swiss Made. Could I have missed a show or something, yeah..I suppose that is possible. Yet, I know what was said when the Reserve Lupah came out with the SII NE20 in it. It is on this forum, go search it. You'll find it. So the bottom line is this... Not all Reserve watches are Swiss Made. Those that use movements like the NE20 and the NE78A are clearly identified as such. They are still made of the same materials. They are still made by the same people (limited to the 10% to 15% of our master level watchmakers). They are still made in the same Swiss facilities. They are still being hand finished and assembled. Everything about the watch is the same. All that changes is the movement that is used inside of them. If you somehow feel that something like the NE20 or NE78A "cheapens" the Reserve name, then just don't purchase it. I am not sure what else to tell you. __________________ Michael


Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #23 Yesterday, 04:17 PM Join Date: May 2009 reliefcp Location: Everett Wa. Senior Member Posts: 7,258 True WatchGeek Real Name: C.J.

In the case of this watch what will sell me is if it has a Made in Japan movement in it. Seiko differeciates their lower end from their higher end with the Made in Japan designation. Seiko IMO is cutting edge with their new movements and the Spring drive and direct drives are incerdible. I know this watch is neither but Made in Japan means a lot to me.


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reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts #24 Yesterday, 04:22 PM Bigmac

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Bigmac View Public Profile Send a private message to Bigmac Find all posts by Bigmac Add Bigmac to Your Contacts #25 Yesterday, 04:26 PM Join Date: Jul 2009 tkromer

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Michael has answered this very clearly. But I'll throw in my 2 cents, the three best movements Invicta has ever used would be this one, the ETA 2892 with DD module in the other Speedway, and the NE20 in the Reserve Lupah. 2 out of their 3 nicest movements are Japanese made...That's why they're not all Swiss Made.

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Quote: Originally Posted by jackievictor Who *&^# are you? Everyone here have the same right as you to discuss and express thier idea without being ridiculed. If you don't like it.... *&^# . Alrighty then... One way to keep the thread active?

Last edited by Bigmac; Yesterday at 04:47 PM. Reason: spelling

Bigmac View Public Profile Send a private message to Bigmac Find all posts by Bigmac Add Bigmac to Your Contacts #27 Yesterday, 04:47 PM Join Date: Jun 2009 Councilman Rock Location: McAlester, OK Senior Member Posts: 1,389 Super Geek Real Name: Greg


Quote: Originally Posted by kramer5150 I know I have heard countless times Both Jim and Eyal say "What you are getting with a Reserve timepiece.... hand assembled, Swiss Made....". Clearly the implication (at least how I had perceived it) is that the Reserve line as a whole is Swiss Made. Whether or not they were actually presenting a Swiss Made watch (in hand) at that moment is irrelevant. The commentary was made as a general statement for all Reserve pieces. This statement hits the nail right on the head. As you go on to say that it's a case by case situation, that's true as we've found out. But implying that everything in the Reserve line is swiss made either intentionally or unintentionally can be avoided by amending the words used during the shows. Maybe they could say, "Most Reserve timepieces are all Swiss made except when we find a better or more suitable X, Y or Z." __________________ PISTOLS FIRING...TOUCHDOWN COWBOYS!!!!

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Another lesson learned! Thanks Michael! Moving forward presentations do need to be differentiated in the future though....Swiss Made" VS "X", as there have been statements made linking Reserve w/ Swiss Made even recently. It just happens that the watch presented was Swiss Made! Just say'in. Thanks again!


Watchgeeks question Invicta claims on Reserve line