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#1 04-03-2009, 02:02 PM

meijin

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,189 Real Name: Michael

WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

Concerning Invicta and their involvement here

Since, in another thread, Invicta and their role was brought up here due to people accessing incomplete and private communications amongst the owners, I'd like to address that directly in a separate thread. This very topic is exactly what we were talking about with regards to taking things out of context. Yes, at one point, we were looking at Invicta to be a paid advertiser as a means to cover the costs of the forum. With that said, let's put everything into context. When we first set up WatchGeeks, we did so on a very inexpensive shared server using free software. So, costs were minimal. It became apparent to us very, very early on that this might not be the way to go if the forum had good growth. To move into comercial software and a dedicated server, the costs go up quite a bit. And, by quite a bit, I mean that the costs go into the thousands of dollars per year just for the server. If anyone doubts that, there are plenty of people here that operate in those realms that can verify this for you. With that being said, we were looking for different ways of funding the site and a variety of things were looked at. They were, in no particular order: #1. Partnering with Invicta. This was an obvious choice as Invicta came "on board" with us as a supporter before the forum went live. #2. Charging any vendor that wanted to participate a fee to do so. #3. Opening up a Paypal donation option for members to make voluntary contributions and when someone did contribute, they would get some sort of "special" access to things that non-contributing members would not. #4. Going to a vendor and getting a very high end watch at cost and then selling raffle tickets to the members with the proceeds going to the cost of running the site. There were probably a few more that were considered, but these were the main ones. In the end, we shot them all down. No vendor here (Invicta or otherwise) pays to be an advertiser here. If you doubt that, just ask Larry Magen, Wing, George Fox, Richard Corbo, David M., Marianne Chase or any of the other vendors represented here. None of the vendors here have ever been asked to be an advertiser here. We (WatchGeeks) suppoort these vendors because they are a part of the forum and "give back" to the members here. When we


set up the recent 1 year anniversary, most of the vendors here gave, free of charge, product to be given away. If we were supported by just Invicta (or anyone else), that would not have happened. So, the bottom line is this. Invicta is NOT a paid advertiser here. ShopNBC is not a paid advertiser here. Nor is any other vendor on or off of ShopNBC. The reason why I said this particular topic is a perfect example of taking things out of context is this...part of the discussions about how to fund the site took place in a private area of the forum that only the owners have access to. Part of it took place via email between the owners and part of it took place via 3-way phone calls between the owners. So, you only get a small piece of what is said in the private messages that folks are trying to put out there. Additionally, they only talk about part of the information. They leave out all of the messages about me telling my two partners the total amount due that I paid for out of my pocket and what their share of that was. They leave out Bruce sending me a message telling me when he would have the check out to me. They leave out the part that the check that Jim sent to me got lost in the mail and he had to send a second one. They leave out the part where we our server crashed in the fall of last year and we had to hire someone to come fix it. When that happened, I had to send them messages as to the cost of that and what their share would be. Why leave all of that out? Because there are other motives behind what they are doing and putting out information that shows that the costs were covered by the three of us does not fit into that model. It is easier just to take a couple of posts that, when read out of context, make the situation look alot different. When people have an agenda for the actions that they take, you never get the full message or all of the information and that is the case when it comes to this topic. And I would like to say something about Invicta and what their involvement on the forum. Eyal stepped up to the plate to support this site even before we went live with it. Over the course of the last year, Invicta has provided us with some where around 15 watches or so at no cost as various different prizes. A number of those watches were Reserve pieces. A number of these watches were given to members before the watch was even released to ShopNBC. As HondaLover about his Akula. Ask Duff about his SAS quartz. So, because of that support, we do give a sort of a preference to Invicta. It is only fair. It has always been that way and we have always stated that. We broke out Invicta into their own section on the forum because of that level of support (and also because they are the most popular vendor on this site). All of the vendors know this. It has never been a secret around here. The decisions about this forum are made by myself, Bruce and Jim. Brad, as an admin, is included on many of those decisions. And, whenever we can, we bring the mod team in to speak up on various things. We do not contact Invicta or ShopNBC or any other vendor in regards to what we do here. Again, when you get incomplete information and then ignore other information and then mix in antagonistic motives, you get a completely skewed picture of what reality actually is. We have told the members here that we would keep the forum up with no paid advertisers and their related banners cluttering up the site and we have held to that.


__________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

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meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #2 04-03-2009, 02:12 PM

jb182

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 1,098 Real Name: John

Senior Member Super Geek

You may not want to answer this question, but who does pay for the cost of running the site? The only conclusion I can draw is that the owners foot the bill and I don't think that is fair. I think some sort of paypal system where members couold make anonymous donations would be perfectly apporpriate. I spend many hours a week here and would be willing to make donations for the privelege, as my personal finances allow. jb182 View Public Profile Send a private message to jb182


Find all posts by jb182 Add jb182 to Your Contacts #3 04-03-2009, 02:18 PM

meijin

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,189 Real Name: Michael

WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb182 You may not want to answer this question, but who does pay for the cost of running the site? The only conclusion I can draw is that the owners foot the bill and I don't think that is fair. I think some sort of paypal system where members couold make anonymous donations would be perfectly apporpriate. I spend many hours a week here and would be willing to make donations for the privelege, as my personal finances allow. As was stated in the original message, we looked at a variety of options to cover the cost and decided that we did not want to charge members in any way. So we have not. We also decided that we did not want to take on paid advertisers. So we have not. It is the responsibility of the owners here to ensure that the costs are covered. In the future, will that change? Maybe. After all, there is a limit as to what can be spent on the cost of a "hobby" like this. But, at this point, we are happy with the current situation and will always be open to addressing a different means if the situation warrants it. __________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces! meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #4 04-03-2009, 02:24 PM


jb182

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 1,098 Real Name: John

Senior Member Super Geek

Thanks Michael. This is an awesome service you are providing us. Always willing to help if I can. jb182 View Public Profile Send a private message to jb182 Find all posts by jb182 Add jb182 to Your Contacts #5 04-03-2009, 02:31 PM

WatchYaThink

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 2,832 Real Name: Larry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

BRAVO! Your desire to maintain the integrity of your independence and the "cleanness" of the forum are very commendable. But ... one does have to wonder about the long-term viability of the forum with no source of support? For ME ... I would not mind seeing some paid vendor features ... for example, on the right side of the home page there are little boxes with a calendar, birthdays, etc .... I don't think that it would detract from the forum at all if those were paid "Vendor Boxes" where a vendor could pay to post advertisements or announcements about new models or show dates or whatever. This could provide income to support the forum without detracting from the aesthetic cleanness AND could even serve as valuable sources of information for the forum members. Just my opinion ... but, not only would I not mind that, I think that it could be a positive thing on many levels. WatchYaThink View Public Profile Send a private message to WatchYaThink Send email to WatchYaThink Find all posts by WatchYaThink Add WatchYaThink to Your Contacts #6 04-03-2009, 04:00 PM


DiverFan

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Rockland Cty, New York Posts: 1,597 Real Name: Gerald(Jerry)

Senior Member Super Geek

Michael as I said on another thread, we are behind you guys in whatever you intend to do. I go along with the previous post that if need be use advertisers. Most of us are used to seeing this on sites and it does not offend me. I know you guys are hurting over this mess, but take heart, you have created a community that is giving pleasure to so many of us. What was said or not said pales in comparison to this achievement. Take care, Gerald DiverFan View Public Profile Send a private message to DiverFan Find all posts by DiverFan Add DiverFan to Your Contacts #7 04-03-2009, 04:27 PM

Ditchdoc Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,311 Real Name: Ken

Thanks Michael! I admire your integrity and willingness to address anything that is even remotely controversial. This is really a non-issue to me. I don't care what discussions you guys have had in the past about advertisment or sponsership or whatever. I've been around the net for quite a while and this is the best forum out there hands down. It's the only one I would ever even consider helping foot the bill to keep the lights on if I were asked. When your at the top of the heep, everybody wants to take a swing at you. Nobody wants swings at the dirt. You have to expect some pot shots from time to time and take them as a sign of your success. __________________ Ken If I'm ever killed in an accident......I hope I'm wearing a decent watch.


Michael Davis lying about Invicta sponsorship