Issuu on Google+

Magster of Watchgeeks thread on Invicta lies

Today, 09:44 AM Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 14,910 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

Magie, I'm sorry you feel cheated. While I know a lot of folks right now have similar feelings... you and I have always had a nice, personal relationship, so of course it bothers me to see that you're upset. I can't speak for Eyal or Invicta on this one, but I can for myself, and what I'm going to say, I know that you already know... but I'll say it for everyone else's benefit. The issue at hand can only have been known 2 ways: 1) Info from the manufacturer 2) Opening the watches before presenting them to validate

Obviously, I do not crack open watches before the show, that's not my job. My job is to take the info provided by the manufacturer and present it. If at any time I have ever caught any discrepancy on ANY watch on ANY brand... I have made the corrections myself, and asked those in charge at Shop to followup with corrections. This can be anything from the wrong case size, to incorrect movement info, or crystal info. Things I can verify personally. I have always done this, and will continue to do so. But unless I open 20, 30 watches pre-show... I cannot know what's engraved on a movement inside, and if that conflicts with any dial markings. It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I don't believe he went out on TV and said anything untruthful with any knowledge that it was.

For me personally, I am falling back on something very simple... if it says "SWISS MADE" on the dial, I will call Swiss into the conversation. Otherwise... no. Folks also have to open up their scope here a bit. ALL Swiss movement manufacturers have

facilities in Hong Kong. ETA did until 2 years ago, tthey hey just shut theirs down. ISA, Ronda... all of them have a Swiss facility and a Chinese facility. Does anyone here believe that this is simply to satisfy Invicta's demand??? NO, this is for the entire industry. From each you can select Swiss or Swiss Parts s in their catalogs. ALL who choose the Swiss parts mark their dials "Swiss Movement", or "Swiss", or Swiss MVT". ALL of them. Invicta continues to be the ONLY company that offers some degree of transparency on the issues by marking case backs on MANY (no (nott all, but MANY) models with some notation of the movement being of Swiss Parts. NO other brand does this. Back to the issue... does it make any of this right? No, and I understand the frustration and anger many people are feeling right now. Have I said S Swiss wiss Made on these very items? Absolutely, because that's what we were told, pure & simple. When the car salesman tells you that your new car has a sunroof and it doesn't... well, that's an obvious catch, and we all can see that. But when he tells you th that at your car has 500hp and then you buy it & dyno it and it only has 400... he cannot possibly know that because the spec sheet he got from the manufacturer told him 500. He isn't going to open up the motor and actually look inside to see if you have hollow valve-stems stems filled with sodium like the factory said it does... he takes the data, and passes it along to the consumer. The issue is being directly addressed at all levels within Invicta and ShopNBC and while I'm not at liberty to disclose the details of the actions at this time, I can assure you that measures are being put into effect that will prevent any possible confusion in the future. __________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.

jskelton View Public Profile Send a private message to jskelton Visit jskelton's homepage! Find all posts by jskelton Add jskelton to Your Contacts #192 Today, 09:51 AM

reliefcp Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Thank you Jim! __________________

reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,872 Real Name: C.J.

#193 Today, 09:52 AM Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Silver Spring, MD. Posts: 7,946 Real Name: Adam

Panda03Bear Senior Member True WatchGeek

thanks jim, good to hear a little explaination. __________________

- Family, that's what's up - Black Eye Dye

Panda03Bear View Public Profile Send a private message to Panda03Bear Send email to Panda03Bear Find all posts by Panda03Bear Add Panda03Bear to Your Contacts #194 Today, 09:55 AM

camarillo3561 Senior Member Senior Geek

As always Jim, the voice of reason. Thanks for taking the time. __________________

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Morgan Hill, CA Posts: 137 Real Name: Christian

CC #228/500 camarillo3561 View Public Profile Send a private message to camarillo3561 Find all posts by camarillo3561 Add camarillo3561 to Your Contacts #195 Today, 10:03 AM

WatchYaThink

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 2,934 Real Name: Larry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Thanks Jim for taking the time to participate in this thread. Although, as you said, it's not really anything new, but it is a good summary of situation. I did find this comment to be something new though: "It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory" I find it a bit of a stretch to think that Eyal as the CEO does not know every detail of what his factory is delivering to him? Are you saying then that there have been instances when Eyal may have ordered his factory to produce a watch to a certain spec; and then he received delivery of those watches, and went on air and presented them without knowing that they had in fact not be produced to the spec that he ordered and he did not know that? __________________ "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix WatchYaThink View Public Profile Send a private message to WatchYaThink Send email to WatchYaThink Find all posts by WatchYaThink Add WatchYaThink to Your Contacts #196 Today, 10:03 AM

mrblue Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,686

Bravo Jim ... beautifully told and it's the TRUTH .... Eyal orders it right and the factory can make an error and send it to Invicta wrongly !!!!! ... BUT EYAL IS A CLASS ACT AS ARE YOU, AS IS MICHAEL AND I AM PROUD TO HAVE STOOD BY YOU GUYS IN THIS DEBATE ........................... MR BLUE .... I CAN'T WAIT TO READ THE DOUBTER'S REVIEWS AGAIN AND AGAIN EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE TOLD 'THE TRUTH' TO ALL TODAY .. MB mrblue View Public Profile Send a private message to mrblue Find all posts by mrblue Add mrblue to Your Contacts #197 Today, 10:11 AM

watchnut62

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,601 Real Name: Steve

Senior Member Super Geek

Thanks for the clarification Jim . I dont believe the anger is because of the movement as much as it is being told something that is not true. Should I go thru all my Invicta's and make sure they are what they say they are. I cant tell if my watch movements are made in Viet nam or china or korea. I rely on the manufacturer to tell me the truth as to where the thing is made. If the company doesnt know where the movement is made they shouldnt put anything on the case. I do feel you are in a very tough spot. You have given us information about issues that was related to you by Eyal. Eyal has not himself posted anything and it gives him an out to say Jim may have misunderstood my reply. I trust you explicitly and would never doubt your word. __________________ So many watches, so little time (and money). watchnut62 View Public Profile Send a private message to watchnut62 Find all posts by watchnut62 Add watchnut62 to Your Contacts #198 Today, 10:15 AM

Join Date: May 2008 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 191 Real Name: Paul

LTCARMY Senior Member Senior Geek

This good news Jim. Helps everone buy with confidence. Thanks Again! LTCARMY View Public Profile Send a private message to LTCARMY Find all posts by LTCARMY Add LTCARMY to Your Contacts #199 Today, 10:36 AM

DiverFan

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Rockland Cty, New York Posts: 1,633 Real Name: Gerald(Jerry)

Senior Member Super Geek

Magie, the most important thing right now is that you make a full recovery! All else pales before this. I agree with your post completely and had hoped that Eyal would have addressed this in his post. It would have been so simple just to say "mea Culpa and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding our dial labeling caused". No mention of lying etc. needed to be said. Just take some ownership and get on with it. I have had so much respect for Eyal that it really hurts to read these concerns. Hopefully things will calm down. It was great for Jim to respond. I am sure that he, Michael and Jill were compleely honest in their presentations. You just take care of yourself and keep posting your great threads! Jerry __________________ Love is a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier named Bailey! Jerry DiverFan View Public Profile Send a private message to DiverFan Find all posts by DiverFan

Add DiverFan to Your Contacts #200 Today, 10:41 AM Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 76

X-James Member Member Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchYaThink Thanks Jim for taking the time to participate in this thread. Although, as you said, it's not really anything new, but it is a good summary of situation. I did find this comment to be something new though: "It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory" I find it a bit of a stretch to think that Eyal as the CEO does not know every detail of what his factory is delivering to him? Are you saying then that there have been instances when Eyal may have ordered his factory to produce a watch to a certain spec; and then he received delivery of those watches, and went on air and presented them without knowing that they had in fact not be produced to the spec that he ordered and he did not know that? I thought and I might be wrong in thinking this that Eyal has portrayed that his are being produced in HIS factories by HIS people or is that just supposedly with the Reserve line? Seriously though I do find it hard to believe that as a CEO of a company that Eyal never knew this happened to him not just once but numerous times. Heck even InvictaShark and a few of the other daily deal sites had been listing the same watches as Swiss Movement and Swiss Parts Movements with the same model numbers as ShopNBC had while ShopNBC were portraying them as Swiss Made. Something else to ponder over is do you honestly think that a movement made with some Swiss parts in China can be sent to Switzerland and be cased cheaper than and entirely Swiss made movement watch? Remember some of the parts has to be shipped to China, assembled and then shipped back to Switzerland or possibly just have it all cased in China and save on the shipping and also have cheap Asian labor. It is something to think about.

Councilman Rock

Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: McAlester, OK Posts: 1,104 Real Name: Greg

Senior Member Super Geek

First, well put Magster. Second, to me it is plain and simple...if you work for a company and sell their product, then your reputation is on the line. So you do everything that is in your power to be as accurate

or correct when selling said items. My family owns a restaurant and I am a server there...I sell our products. If there is a question about the food, I will check packaging, food ingredient lists, data safety sheets or I will consult with the different food service company reps to fully know what it is that I am selling. I do not simply tow the company (family) line. My reputation and livelihood is on the line if I do not know what is going on. So it really bothers me greatly when the excuse is given that the Technical Brand Manager for a well-known, successful company only knows what is provided before he goes onto live TV to sell that product. To me, that makes no sense when little old me, working for a single small business can do a little research and digging to find out what I am selling. __________________

RED SOX NATION MEMBER SINCE 2008 RIDE 'EM OKLAHOMA STATE COWBOYS Councilman Rock View Public Profile Send a private message to Councilman Rock Send email to Councilman Rock Find all posts by Councilman Rock Add Councilman Rock to Your Contacts #202 Today, 10:54 AM

gadgetfreak

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 57

Member Member Geek

Of course it's not Eyal's fault at all that 100% Chinese watches were labeled Swiss corresponding with the law that would let them get away with it. Of course it was not Business tactics, just a simple ordering mistake Ya I believe ya gadgetfreak View Public Profile Send a private message to gadgetfreak Find all posts by gadgetfreak Add gadgetfreak to Your Contacts #203 Today, 10:56 AM

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 2,073 Real Name: John

JDinNOLA Senior Member Super Geek

Riddle me this, Mr. Blue...... IF all Invicta watches marked "Swiss Made" are in fact swiss made watches under the guidelines of the Swiss Federation.......and IF all Invicta watches marked "Swiss" turn out to not be swiss made watches under the guidelines of the Swiss Federation.......and Invicta has repeatedly stated that both designations "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" mean the same thing, that they are swiss made under the guidelines of the Swiss Federation...... How can this be blamed on miscommunication with the factory??? There certainly arent any SWISS MADE watches that aren't clearly marked SWISS MADE! None of the "SWISS" watches have turned out to be SWISS MADE. The labeling seems to me to be correct. It is the explanation from Invicta as to what the labeling means that is FALSE..... Just as a reminder, here it is again from the Technical Brand Manager of Invicta just 3 Weeks ago....... meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,417 Real Name: Michael When Invicta puts Swiss Made on the dial, it means that the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation have been used in the production of the watch. When Invicta puts Swiss only on the dial, it means that the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation have been used in the production of the watch. When Invicta uses the phrase Swiss Movt, it indicates that the movement in the watch is a Swiss Made movement, but the production of the watch does not follow all of the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation. When Invicta uses the phrase Swiss Parts Movement, it means that a movement (usually from companies like Ronda, ISA, etc.) containing Swiss parts have been used and is generally been produced/assembled in a non-Swiss country.

This has been discussed numerous times here and also on the shows that have aired for the last several years. So, for Invicta, when we use Swiss or Swiss Made, it means the same thing. That being, that the watch was produced using the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation. __________________ Michael Edit..... I do not mean to suggest that Michael Davis was lying to us when he repeated this information on TV and on the forums. I believe that this is what he was told. I do believe, however, that the only miscommunication on this issue came from Eyal and was logically NOT the result of any miscommunication with a foreign factory that certainly completed its fabricating and assembly as per EYAL's specs. My only criticism of Michael has been his berating of members here who, using logic, understood that Eyal's explanation made no sense. Remember that to question this was to be a member of the Black Helicopter conspiracy mob. Magie's original post asks that Eyal come clean about this. I hope he will as well. __________________

Last edited by JDinNOLA; Today at 11:08 AM. Reason: To add disclaimer at bottom

JDinNOLA View Public Profile Send a private message to JDinNOLA Find all posts by JDinNOLA Add JDinNOLA to Your Contacts #204 Today, 11:09 AM

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 14,910 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchYaThink Thanks Jim for taking the time to participate in this thread. Although, as you said, it's not really anything new, but it is a good summary of situation. I did find this comment to be something new though: "It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory" I find it a bit of a stretch to think that Eyal as the CEO does not know every detail of what his factory is delivering to him? Are you saying then that there have been instances when Eyal may have ordered his factory to produce a watch to a certain spec; and then he received delivery of those watches, and went on air and presented them without knowing that they had in fact not be produced to the spec that he ordered and he did not know that? Don't read so deeply into it, if you do, you'll just end up twisting my words around. I said that "I PERSONALLY BELIEVE...." I have no idea how or why it happened. I am simply offering up what MIGHT be a POSSIBLE situation. No, CEO's do NOT open up every single item they manufacture and inspect them... that's not their job. Just like the CEO does not design all the products, source all the components, or assign all the company parking spots.. they have teams and managers in different departments for this stuff. Yes, he is the final say in what is made, but once the order is given, who's to say a mistake cannot be made?? I'm sure the CEO of Firestone didn't order tires to be made that would BLOW OUT if you drove on them... but that's precisely what they got a couple years back. Two entirely different scenarios of course, but the point is that the CEO does not have hands-on in every possible part of their business, it is just not possible. So don't take what I stated as a personal opinion as "the explanation" as to what happened. Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgetfreak Of course it's not Eyal's fault at all that 100% Chinese watches were labele labeled d Swiss corresponding with the law that would let them get away with it. Of course it was not Business tactics, just a simple ordering mistake Ya I believe ya Yup, that was helpful. Thanks for taking the time... __________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you ha have ve formed with your viewers.

jskelton View Public Profile Send a private message to jskelton Visit jskelton's homepage! Find all posts by jskelton Add jskelton to Your Contacts

#205 Today, 11:10 AM Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 76

X-James Member Member Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinNOLA meijin So, for Invicta, when we use Swiss or Swiss Made, it means the same thing. That being, that the watch was produced using the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation. __________________ Michael That is what he may have been told but that is not what has been proven to actually now be the truth. Unless Michael actually removed case backs to verify what he had been told was the truth why would he have any need to question what he was told as the truth when in reality it was just a gray area. As Eyal Lalo's said via Jim Skelton it is all a gray area that all manufactures partake in doing to help promote the sales of there watches by using the term Swiss to make people think it is something it might not be ... or something to that affect. X-James View Public Profile Send a private message to X-James Find all posts by X-James Add X-James to Your Contacts #206 Today, 11:12 AM Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 14,910 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

Cleaning up the thread a bit. Thanks of course to mr blue, but the bickering between members on a few points made based on member's opinions... isn't helping and is getting off-topic, so I'll be closing off those replies to make this easier to wade through. Please take arguments to PM. Thanks. __________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you ha have ve formed with your viewers.

jskelton View Public Profile Send a private message to jskelton Visit jskelton's homepage! Find all posts by jskelton Add jskelton to Your Contacts #207 Today, 11:16 AM

Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 72 Real Name: Don

dmullins8 Member Member Geek

Great Post, This reason along with the horrible customer service has me buying other brands. dmullins8 View Public Profile Send a private message to dmullins8 Send email to dmullins8 Find all posts by dmullins8 Add dmullins8 to Your Contacts #208 Today, 11:18 AM

mrblue

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,686

Senior Member Super Geek

Please do Jim .. Tks .. MB mrblue View Public Profile Send a private message to mrblue Find all posts by mrblue Add mrblue to Your Contacts #209 Today, 11:27 AM

sandman20

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,070

Senior Member Super Geek

Well written post by the OP. This now seems to be going in many different directions with all types of theory's. I feel the bottom line is quite simple, for the last couple of years we have been told by Invicta, SNBC, JS and recently Michael that "SWISS = SWISS MADE". Eyal has admitted that this is not true in his own words: "Then we get into the way we use the word “SWISS”. The the word “Swiss” was used on watches as a description for a watch using a movement with Swiss part Origins. This includes

movements that are bought from SWISS COMPANIES, with SWISS ENGENEERING, that are tested in Switzerland, but has components that are sent off to the Far East for cost purposes to be assembled. Examples of these are ETA, Ronda, ISA, “Far East versions”. They were developed to assist in delivering the consumer more value, on an otherwise identical item. Today, the word Swiss is used on watches that are very inexpensive, because the brand used a Swiss Movement Far East assembly version. Yes as companies we do call more attention to this than the fact that the movement is assembled in China, but that’s marketing." So what other conclusion can there be that we were purposely misled by Invicta? I don't think Michael or JS knew, but of course Eyal did as he admits it above by his explanation. If this doesn't matter to you that’s fine, everyone must make their own decisions. For me, after this and the DD issue, I will not be purchasing another Invicta anytime soon. sandman20 View Public Profile Send a private message to sandman20 Find all posts by sandman20 Add sandman20 to Your Contacts #210 Today, 12:21 PM

Gregg

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vallejo, Calif. Posts: 2,144 Real Name: Gregg (New Geek)

Senior Member Super Geek

I just finished reading all the posts, and wish Maggie a speedy recovery, getting well, etc. I think you posted a necessary and appropriate statement concerning your questions about the Invicta issue as it affects you. This took some doing on your part, and not easily initiated either as you said. I'm down to one Invicta which I still own/wear my Anatomic RD, which is a very cool watch for me, so in the big picture here it does really concern me that many WG's are upset to say the least. I do truly hope you all can get some resolution here, but this depends on Eyal Lalo actions/statements coming forward. Gregg View Public Profile Send a private message to Gregg Find all posts by Gregg Add Gregg to Your Contacts #211 Today, 12:25 PM

samuelrz

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 1,347 Real Name: Sam

Senior Member Super Geek

Hey Maggie, I hope all is well with you and yours. I've always enjoyed reading your posts and consider you a friend. I've had some time to digest everything that I've read over the last couple of weeks and in hindsight you have stated the issue eloquently and as a matter of fact as anyone of us could. I agree with all your points and hope something positive will come from these recent fiascos. Personally, I'm starting to wonder if the Kobe Beef I ordered from the Shop was just Angus with a peppering of Kobe, lol. Take and keep up the great work. Cheers! __________________

SAM -

samuelrz View Public Profile Send a private message to samuelrz Send email to samuelrz Find all posts by samuelrz Add samuelrz to Your Contacts #212 Today, 12:54 PM

mrblue

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,686

Senior Member Super Geek

For myself, I hope to be enjoying and purchasing Invictas for many years to come .. Thankyou Eyal for the great product and dedicted care which you have brought to the industry in an effort, from the heart, to bring the consumer the best possible quality and quality control at the best conceivable prices. Before Invicta and the shop, this was not possible. And before this forum was gifted to us, it was never conceivable that geeks would gift eachother such great timepieces at such extraordinary prices in such

a friendly and enjoyable way. Thanks to you all as well. I hope Invicta deals with the issue of assuring us in the immediate future that what we expect is what we get. They do need to work on this. I have confidence that they will. Mr Blue mrblue View Public Profile Send a private message to mrblue Find all posts by mrblue Add mrblue to Your Contacts #213 Today, 12:57 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,158

GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

As Jim has stated, from this point take all personal comments to our PM system... Now lets get back on topic! Thank you for your cooperation __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG

GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #214 Today, 01:06 PM Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX Posts: 292

sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeTheWatchGuy

As Jim has stated, from this point take all personal comments to our PM system... Now lets get back on topic!

Thank you for your cooperation When i got to the last line all i could here in my head was this guy

lol sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #215 Today, 01:20 PM

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX Posts: 292

sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

guess the reserve line is longer just for swiss hand made time pieces.... http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Reser...83&catprop=483 sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #216 Today, 01:34 PM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 2,075

ao Senior Member Super Geek

Thankyou Magie for starting this thread with your heartfelt post, and thankyou Jim for you thoughtful response. I hope you both get well soon and thankyou again for your contributions, in your own ways, to WatchGeeks. ao View Public Profile Send a private message to ao Send email to ao Find all posts by ao Add ao to Your Contacts #217 Today, 02:03 PM

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: 'Da Region-NW Region Indiana Posts: 1,447

toyaddict007 Senior Member Super Geek

Another well thought out Mags post!

*Mags---get get well! GR8 post post---THANX! Quote:

Originally Posted by richhoff I was curious about how many Invictas I have that said "Swiss" rather than "Swiss Made". I have 80 Invictas. I have 5 that have just "Swiss" on the dial, 3 Russian Divers and 2 Lupah Grands. **I actually don't own an Invicta with just "Swiss" on the dial...so I don't have a dog in this hunt... Quote:

Originally Posted by Councilman Rock First, well put Magster. Second, to me it is plain and simple...if you work for a company and sell their product product, then your reputation is on the line. So you do everything that is in your power to be as accurate or correct when selling said items. My family owns a restaurant and I am a server there...I sell our products. If there is a question about the food, I will check packaging, food ingredient lists, data safety sheets or I will consult with the different food service company reps to fully know what it is that I am selling. I do not simply tow the company (family) line. My reputation and livelihood is on the line e if I do not know what is going on. So it really bothers me greatly when the excuse is given that the Technical Brand Manager for a well-known, known, successful company only knows what is provided before he goes onto live TV to sell that product. To me, that makes kes no sense when little old me, working for a single small business can do a little research and digging to find out what I am selling. ***Unless your menu has as many different entres as Invicta has different watch styles, I don't think this example wo works... ****Thank you Jim, for your posts here. Bruce __________________ A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse...

This is how I roll...in my own mind... toyaddict007 View Public Profile Send a private message to toyaddict007 Send email to toyaddict007 Find all posts by toyaddict007 Add toyaddict007 to Your Contacts #218 Today, 02:09 PM

Russell3

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Fallowfield PA Posts: 360 Real Name: Russell

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewInvictaGuy It kind of is on topic...Maggie's OP touched on Eyal coming out with an apology and a statement on the issues. Part of that discussion has to go to if he even cares what members here think...IMO because the number of watches purshased by members here is so small he does not Thank you I Agree! Russell3 View Public Profile Send a private message to Russell3 Find all posts by Russell3 Add Russell3 to Your Contacts #219 Today, 02:13 PM

BadMax Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 825 Real Name: Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunaru guess the reserve line is longer just for swiss hand made time pieces.... http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Reser...83&catprop=483 Hey, just remember that only 10% of Invicta watchsmiths/makers get to put there hands on these Reserves, BOOOYA BadMax View Public Profile Send a private message to BadMax Find all posts by BadMax Add BadMax to Your Contacts #220 Today, 02:25 PM

chasntime

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 307 Real Name: George

Senior Member Senior Geek

Jim, Good analogy with the car, and yes I am a tad frustrated but being in manufacturing, I understand. I can't say I like it, but I understand. And while I understand Eyal can not monitor every detail, as the CEO he buys that responsibility! Nuff said, end of story! Does your yellow monster only have 400 HP???? Man take it back! LOL Good luck with your recovery and the new wheels. When the car salesman tells you that your new car has a sunroof and it doesn't... well, that's an obvious catch, and we all can see that. But when he tells you that your car has 500hp and then you buy it & dyno it and it only has 400... he cannot possibly know that because the spec sheet he got from the manufacturer told him 500. He isn't going to open up the motor and actually look inside to see if you have hollow valve-stems filled with sodium like the factory said it does... he takes the data, and passes it along to the consumer. chasntime View Public Profile Send a private message to chasntime Send email to chasntime Find all posts by chasntime Add chasntime to Your Contacts #221 Today, 03:33 PM

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Olympia, Washington Posts: 3,726

LadyCopper Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Yikes! What a thread! Magie - hope that you are feeling better and speedy recovery. Verrrrrry nicely articulated post, and I wouldn't expect any less from you girl! I totally agree that the real issue here is trust. I'm not sure that a well-worded apology/explanation from Eyal would go very far at this point . . . the hay is already in the barn (so to speak). __________________ I can only hope to be the person my dog thinks I am . . . LadyCopper View Public Profile Send a private message to LadyCopper Send email to LadyCopper Find all posts by LadyCopper Add LadyCopper to Your Contacts #222 Today, 03:47 PM

Councilman Rock

Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: McAlester, OK Posts: 1,104 Real Name: Greg

Senior Member Super Geek

***Unless your menu has as many different entres as Invicta has different watch styles, I don't think this example works... ****Thank you Jim, for your posts here. Bruce[/quote] I think that you miss my point entirely...maybe I wasn't clear either. By using my analogy, it has nothing really to do with the variety of our menu....which actually there's a lot, but my point speaks to the fact that if you put your rep on the line, you better do your homework AND everyone elses as well. You can't just trust everyone when it's you butt on the line...know ALL the facts, info, specifics, etc. __________________

RED SOX NATION MEMBER SINCE 2008 RIDE 'EM OKLAHOMA STATE COWBOYS

Councilman Rock View Public Profile Send a private message to Councilman Rock Send email to Councilman Rock Find all posts by Councilman Rock Add Councilman Rock to Your Contacts #223 Today, 03:48 PM

capthook Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: new jersey Posts: 1,106 Real Name: buzz

everybody grab your pitchforks and torches........where going to florida....... capthook View Public Profile Send a private message to capthook Send email to capthook Find all posts by capthook Add capthook to Your Contacts #224 Today, 03:59 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 289

LouCap Senior Member Senior Geek

You know, if you're that displeased, your best weapon is your wallet. Use it (or don't) as you see fit. Personally, I haven't bought an Invicta in at least a year...I have bought other watches though, because I can. __________________ Time for Timer! LouCap View Public Profile Send a private message to LouCap Find all posts by LouCap

Add LouCap to Your Contacts #225 Today, 04:00 PM

timeman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,853 Real Name: Jerry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton It is s my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I don't believe he went out on TV and said anything untruthful with any knowledge that it was. This might be the case. If it is why didn't Eyal catch on too? Didn't anyone in his company pick up on it? Weren't some of these watches sent back to Invicta for repair, and no one said these "Swiss Made" watches have Swiss parts movements in them and were assembled in China? IMO these are the possible scenarios. 1) Eyal had no knowledge nowledge they were selling watches they claimed to be "Swiss Made" that weren't, and only became aware of it when it was brought to his attention by geeks from this forum. or 2) Knowing the watches were not Swiss made he put "Swiss" on the dials and repo reported the watches were Swiss made i.e. they complied with the Swiss Federation guidelines, and was done only as a marketing strategy to increase sales. I tend to believe the latter. Edit. The following sentence is from Eyal's post regarding this "Swiss" = "Swiss Made" issue. "Today, the word Swiss is used on watches that are very inexpensive, because the brand used a Swiss Movement Far East assembly version. Yes as companies we do call more attention to this than the fact that the movement is assembled in China, but that’s marketing". __________________

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,339

Magster Senior Member True WatchGeek

After being away from this thread all night/morning, I must apologize to everyone, and especially the staff here... Perhaps, I should have waited until I could devote more time here, monitoring the thread. I am sorry for that and also for being a moron and starting this thread on Father's Day! It should have waited and I hope this thread did not negatively effect any father's special day... Thank you to the mods, Brad (still a mod to me), and to Jim for keeping an eye on this and for "cleaning it up" instead of shutting it down... thank you!!

Once again, there have been too many replies for me to address each of them. But, thank you all for your participation here, even if you don't agree with me, I appreciate the time you take to be here...

Jim... I'll address your response below...

[quote=Panda03Bear;1703234] the only excuse i can think of for eyal is the language barrier, as he is well versed in many languages. other than that though, there really is no excuse. quote] Since we just saw what a language barrier could do with the head of BP and the "Small People" comment, I could understand this. However, I don't believe this is the case. Since the watches were CHANGED to read Swiss, when they used to state Swiss Made, that provides evidence that leads a reasonable person to believe that the mistake was not in the language differences. It supports that there was a KNOWN change and that information was simply not accurately given to us... I am amazed at anyone being able to speak 2 languages, let alone the multiple ones that Eyal speaks. Just another reason I have had so much respect for the man. And, another point that proves he is no dummy...

[quote=BabyDoc;1703311]Magster, I am not sure what you expect Eyal to say that he hasn't said before. He said that calling a Swiss designed, but Chineese made watch, "Swiss" is just "marketing", and that this type of marketing is common within the industry.

quote] His reply did not address why HE continued to tell us that the watches were Swiss Made even though his response indicates that he knew the difference the whole time. So, that is what I'd like explained... from HIM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzalestwins Magie, thankfully for me I only purchased those Invictas that I really wanted and had no thought that these watches would ever increase in value or come remotely close to maintaining their pricing/value. Unless you want to void your warranty you don't open the watches. Doug You made some good points in your post but I edited it here to address only two things... I don't care, in the long run, if my watches increase or decrease in value. If I have purchased a watch and liked it... Then, I see it for a low price and it is still the Swiss Made watch I like, that could influence me to buy another and another. So, for me personally, I have felt duped into buying additional Swiss Made watches based on the low prices for such a high quality, Swiss MADE watch. Perhaps I wouldn't have purchased a 2nd, 3rd, 6th,... watch if the deal itself wasn't so great for such a "Swiss Made" piece... Pain meds are kicking in today so I don't know if that makes much sense, but I'm tryin' here... Interesting points about the warranty voided if you open the watch... but that's another thread some day... Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton Magie, I'm sorry you feel cheated. While I know a lot of folks right now have similar feelings... you and I have always had a nice, personal relationship, so of course it bothers me to see that you're upset.

Thanks Jim... I can't speak for Eyal or Invicta on this one, but I can for myself, and what I'm going to say, I know that you already know... but I'll say it for everyone else's benefit. Yes, my heart already knew this, but it is sure nice to see your response confirm it

for my head!

It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I don't believe he went out on TV and said anything untruthful with any knowledge that it was. IF there was not an actual change to the wording on the dial, I might agree with this... To me, the fact that the wording on the dial went from Swiss Made to Swiss, clearly shows Invicta knew they were changed for some reason, and, most reasonably, for the reason Eyal posted in his response to that initial thread...

Invicta continues to be the ONLY company that offers some degree of transparency on the issues by marking case backs on MANY (not all, but MANY) models with some notation of the movement being of Swiss Parts. NO other brand does this. Unfortunately for me... this upfront honesty led me to believe, even stronger, that Swiss meant Swiss Made. Why would they be extra honest here and lie there?!?! Sort of suckered me in with this one...

Back to the issue... does it make any of this right? No, and I understand the frustration and anger many people are feeling right now. Have I said Swiss Made on these very items? Absolutely, because that's what we were told, pure & simple. Very glad to see you type this!! Sorry for the hit that your rep has taken from this too. That can't feel good for you and it can't feel good to be put in this situation by the actions of someone you consider a friend. Not that I'm condeming Eyal yet, but I've run out of explanations to clear him in all this...

When the car salesman tells you that your new car has a sunroof and it doesn't... well, that's an obvious catch, and we all can see that. But when he tells you that your car has 500hp and then you buy it & dyno it and it only has 400... he cannot possibly know that because the spec sheet he got from the manufacturer told him 500. He isn't going to open up the motor and actually look inside to see if you have hollow valve-stems filled with sodium like the factory said it does... he takes the data, and passes it along to the consumer. LOL... and it all comes back to a car analogy!! I talk about domestic violence and you talk cars... gotta stick with what we know!! The issue is being directly addressed at all levels within Invicta and ShopNBC and while I'm not at liberty to disclose the details of the actions at this time, I can assure you that measures are being put into effect that will prevent any possible confusion in the future. Other than you confirming that you had no idea, this last section is the best news this thread has received...

I hope for a response of some kind... And, I deeply appreciate your postings here, Jim!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiverFan had hoped that Eyal would have addressed this in his post. It would have been so simple just to say "mea Culpa and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding our dial labeling caused". No mention of lying etc. needed to be said. Just take some ownership and get on with it. I have had so much respect for Eyal that it really hurts to read these concerns. Hopefully things will calm down. It was great for Jim to respond. I am sure that he, Michael and Jill were compleely honest in their presentations. Thanks Jerry... I agree with you!!!! Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinNOLA

Invicta has repeatedly stated that both designations "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" mean the same thing, that they are swiss made under the guidelines of the Swiss Federation...... How can this be blamed on miscommunication with the factory??? There certainly arent any SWISS MADE watches that aren't clearly marked SWISS MADE! None of the "SWISS" watches have turned out to be SWISS MADE. The labeling seems to me to be correct. It is the explanation from Invicta as to what the labeling means that is FALSE.....

I do believe, however, that the only miscommunication on this issue came from Eyal and was logically NOT the result of any miscommunication with a foreign factory that certainly completed its fabricating and assembly as per EYAL's specs.

Magie's original post asks that Eyal come clean about this. I hope he will as well. I chopped up your post quite a bit but wanted to say thanks for the very well thought out response... Magster View Public Profile Send a private message to Magster Find all posts by Magster Add Magster to Your Contacts #227 Today, 04:09 PM

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,339

Magster Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by capthook everybody grab your pitchforks and torches........where going to florida....... this response doesn't help here, Buzz... I put a disclaimer as the first sentence of the thread. Please read it again... Magster View Public Profile Send a private message to Magster Find all posts by Magster Add Magster to Your Contacts #228 Today, 04:10 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,541

watchluv Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Good thread Magie. The thing I have noticed from Eyal is that from day one before Jim was on SNBC I watched Eyal Stretch the truth to the limits. I asked myself why can't he just tell it like it is about the watches? What is so hard in telling the truth? Sales will still be the same if not better telling the truth and winning trust in your customers. When someone stretches the truth to sell a product it always makes me wonder what is being hidden. Once you lose faith and trust it is so hard to get back. But on a personal note I really think Eyal can't help himself and he feels that is the way to sell his product. I say take lessons from Wing CEO of Android. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts

#229 Today, 04:18 PM

buddah00

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: GA Posts: 1,326 Real Name: Isaac

Senior Member Super Geek

Very well written post Magster and I agree with you on a lot of it. I posted in some of those older threads that some of the watches could have been made in Timbuktu and I wouldn't have cared as long as I knew where they came from. I know that whole situation put a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people, myself included. I also feel that even though the issue was addressed it still kind of left us hanging. I understand the ambiguity of the labeling of watches and wanting to highlight the aspects of your product that most appeals to consumers but stating that it is Swiss made when it isn't involves more than just playing with industry terms. I have picked up several Invicta's since this came out 2 SANIV's and am eyeing several others. Most of my Invicta's are Reserves or Swiss made. I do have a couple of Swiss ones and will probably purchase more but am more price conscience when it comes to them since I have become informed. The majority of my watches are Invicta's. I am thinking as I write this response and I have added more Renato's, Androids etc. since all this came out. I don't think I did it intentionally either, maybe my subconscious was guiding my purchases. Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts into an intelligent post.

. __________________

I want what every other man want's, I Just want it MORE!

buddah00 View Public Profile Send a private message to buddah00 Find all posts by buddah00 Add buddah00 to Your Contacts #230 Today, 04:18 PM

Gunther

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Corinth, NE Mississippi Posts: 619 Real Name: Gunther K.

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Very well put. We are only asking that products be properly represented as to what they truly are. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course this is very similiar to the "White Glove Treatment" we have been preached about. __________________ Gunther Up the Irons, Down the Smirny Gunther View Public Profile Send a private message to Gunther Find all posts by Gunther Add Gunther to Your Contacts #231 Today, 04:55 PM

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,339

Magster Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunther Of course this is very similiar to the "White Glove Treatment" we have been preached about. Oh boy do I want to jump on this one too, but I can't take my own thread off topic... Maybe another day we can cover the quality control/customer service stuff, but stretching the truth (as with the White Glove Treatment) is not as bad (to me) as outright untruths... Magster View Public Profile Send a private message to Magster Find all posts by Magster Add Magster to Your Contacts #232 Today, 05:45 PM

capthook Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: new jersey Posts: 1,106 Real Name: buzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magster this response doesn't help here, Buzz... I put a disclaimer as the first sentence of the thread. Please read it again... sorry mag didnt mean to offend anyone......but after reading 225 posts i thought a little light hearted humor was in order...i was wrong........but to the matter of your thread.....i personally dont own any watches that just say swiss on them... them....all .all mine say say swiss made...i wouldnt care if the president said it was swiss made....its not ....if it was it would say swiss made.....sorry to all that thought you bought a swiss made watch....{buyer beware}....get well soon mag....sorry again....


Magster of Watchgeeks on the Invicta Lies