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View Full Version : Another Invicta "Skelton" watch..oops skeleton watch>>> Tony Duronio

April 10th, 2006, 02:39 and more smoke and mirrors. Jim was careful in describing it as a Swiss Eabuche parts:-S .... What does that mean??? And why would you want a watch that people will ogle from a distance, but you can't read the time from 12" awayO| O| KenC

April 10th, 2006, 02:53 and more smoke and mirrors. Jim was careful in describing it as a Swiss Eabuche parts:-S .... What does that mean??? And why would you want a watch that people will ogle from a distance, but you can read the time from 12" awayO| O| skelton/skeleton..............sucks either way...........have a hard time looking at either :-D jmho e.Alvarez

April 10th, 2006, 03:00

Is the movt. any good? The piece does look nice. jakisbck April 10th, 2006, 15:58 Brotha E its the same movt but different case as all the othersB-) This time they started out with "This is a brand new watch with a SWISS MOVT not like all the rest but saying it's swiss when its only swiss parts in thos one is all swiss movt, Swiss ebauche. All in all same movt different case (military type this time) so, if you have a skeleton invicta now and you want this one to replace it just remember its the same as before except the case.;-) PS I have to admit I like the movt in this case then the previous skeletons (its probaly the case I really like more than anything else) motorboat Is the movt. any good? The piece does look nice.

April 11th, 2006, 04:02

Jim said on his fanboy forum that it was is a Technica movement made in Asia.


Why they call it a Swiss Ebauche is beyond me. Maybe ebauche means something like "similar to" or "bastardized version of." deidler

April 11th, 2006, 04:39 Jim said on his fanboy forum that it was is a Technica movement made in Asia. Why they call it a Swiss Ebauche is beyond me. Maybe ebauche means something like "similar to" or "bastardized version of." Ebauche - French term commonly used in English-speaking countries for an incomplete watch movement which is sold as a set of loose parts, comprising the main plate, the bridges, the train, the winding and setting mechanism and the regulator. The timing system, the escapement and the mainspring, however, are not parts of the "ĂŠbauche". http://www.wristwatchtrends.com/Watch_Edu/Wrist_Watch_Terms.cfm Dragoon

April 11th, 2006, 05:42 Probably some swiss parts in the movement. Some of the movement parts are shipped to Asia where the labor is much cheaper and constructed there with additional Asian parts perhaps. Invicta and others are somewhat secretive about exactly what they do. Invicta has been especially secretive about the particulars on the Swiss Ebauche and we have tried for years to get some details with very little success. In the WUS Interview with Eyal in 02-2004 with Oompa Lupah and Eyal.....here is how he answered the Ebauche question... " In my opinion you are not a serious watch maker unless you can also make your own movements. That's why Inivcta has its own company Technic Swiss Ebauche Microtenique, developing its own line of movements. this is somehting we addressed in the third issue of .... An ebauche is a movement minus the balance, escapement, .... In essence, it's a building block or a "blank". Ine watchmakers procure their ebauches from contries like Switzerland and Farance ... and often source many of the other componenets from all over the world. The Ebauches and components are the n assembled, and often customized with particular complications, at the watchmaker's faciliities. Because of this , there are similarities in movements made by companies like Swiss ETA, Seiko and Miyota." This was followed up by a questions as to what companies make your Swiss movement blanks? to which Eyal replied.... (I will tell you if..)" Only if you can get me the Coronel's secret recipe! Just kidding! Although I would like to answer your question I can not. I would be giving away secrets...


So, there you have it.....straight from Eyal as asked by Oompa Lupah. INterpret as you will.

Jim said on his fanboy forum that it was is a Technica movement made in Asia. Why they call it a Swiss Ebauche is beyond me. Maybe ebauche means something like "similar to" or "bastardized version of." deidler April 11th, 2006, 05:53 Probably some swiss parts in the movement. Some of the movement parts are shipped to Asia where the labor is much cheaper and constructed there with additional Asian parts perhaps. Invicta and others are somewhat secretive about exactly what they do. Invicta has been especially secretive about the particulars on the Swiss Ebauche and we have tried for years to get some details with very little success. In the WUS Interview with Eyal in 02-2004 with Oompa Lupah and Eyal.....here is how he answered the Ebauche question... " In my opinion you are not a serious watch maker unless you can also make your own movements. That's why Inivcta has its own company Technic Swiss Ebauche Microtenique, developing its own line of movements. this is somehting we addressed in the third issue of .... An ebauche is a movement minus the balance, escapement, .... In essence, it's a building block or a "blank". Ine watchmakers procure their ebauches from contries like Switzerland and Farance ... and often source many of the other componenets from all over the world. The Ebauches and components are the n assembled, and often customized with particular complications, at the watchmaker's faciliities. Because of this , there are similarities in movements made by companies like Swiss ETA, Seiko and Miyota." This was followed up by a questions as to what companies make your Swiss movement blanks? to which Eyal replied.... (I will tell you if..)" Only if you can get me the Coronel's secret recipe! Just kidding! Although I would like to answer your question I can not. I would be giving away secrets... So, there you have it.....straight from Eyal as asked by Oompa Lupah. INterpret as you will. Seems pretty straight forward to me. With the exception to the making movements bs. Purchasing pieces from different companies and assembling them in some


facility doesn't somehow equal making your own movements. So basically, they don't make movements. Although they try to pass off like they do. motorboat

April 11th, 2006, 06:44 So, there you have it.....straight from Eyal as asked by Oompa Lupah. INterpret as you will. Yeah, I more or less already knew that. I had a moment of weakness and felt like crapping on them because I'm still pissed that they are trying to charge me $20 for return shipping instead of the $15 that I sent them per the instructions on my warranty card. They are just so cheap it's beyond comparison. Dragoon

April 11th, 2006, 08:47 MOre or less posteed it for the benefit of the person who started the thread and asked the question. Yeah, I think we have all heard about the swiss ebauche about a zillion times. Guess I should of used E. Alvarez to give a "quote reply" as he sort of looked to be asking about the ebauche.....I know Tony is quite familiar with all the story.

Yeah, I more or less already knew that. I had a moment of weakness and felt like crapping on them because I'm still pissed that they are trying to charge me $20 for return shipping instead of the $15 that I sent them per the instructions on my warranty card. They are just so cheap it's beyond comparison. o.a gaspar April 11th, 2006, 13:48 Have to Agree with Tony....Why :-S Claims of this Watch being a Customized Hand Engraved Movement are Just Plain Old BS in The Highest Power :-D:-D KenC

April 11th, 2006, 15:10 Seems pretty straight forward to me. With the exception to the making movements bs. Purchasing pieces from different companies and assembling them in some facility doesn't somehow equal making your own movements. So basically, they don't make movements. Although they try to pass off like they do. I still have a difficult time believing that Invicta even assembles the movements............The "factory" locations are still an international secret to us mere commoners. JMHO (not really as it is the consensus) that Invicta is merely a marketing company that has its products oem'd by others - hence the huge lack of


QC. But, on the other hand, EL said true, so.......................... Dragoon April 11th, 2006, 19:18 There has been additional skeletonization done to this new version from the few pictures I have seen of it compared to the older skeletons using the Swiss Ebauche. It may be we will see 400 variations from a wide range of manufacturers using this new more highly sculpted skeleton movement. I agree it is most likely "machine generated" but dont know enough about the process to really give an opinion on that. I guess in a $200 watch not much of anything is going to be "hand done" the old fashioned way. And this isnt always a bad thing. Look at Seiko....many, if not most of their watches are completely machine produced with excellent results. I guess Eyal just has to put a spin on most everything. Well, it works for "W"...why not Eyal.:-D :-D KenC April 11th, 2006, 19:47 There has been additional skeletonization done to this new version from the few pictures I have seen of it compared to the older skeletons using the Swiss Ebauche. It may be we will see 400 variations from a wide range of manufacturers using this new more highly sculpted skeleton movement. I agree it is most likely "machine generated" but dont know enough about the process to really give an opinion on that. I guess in a $200 watch not much of anything is going to be "hand done" the old fashioned way. And this isnt always a bad thing. Look at Seiko....many, if not most of their watches are completely machine produced with excellent results. I guess Eyal just has to put a spin on most everything. Well, it works for "W"...why not Eyal.:-D :-D I think his constant "spin" is catching up with him.......perhaps that is why most, if not all, of the Forum devoted to Invicta are dropping the Invicta name. Geez, if he would just redirect all of that energy into honesty................he could better continue what he started.........jmho! Eddyboy


April 11th, 2006, 20:14 The only way you could sell any watch with a "hand skeletonized, hand decorated and engraved movement with Swiss parts/components for $200, is to: sell it at a loss, use slave labor, or be lying about what is really in the case.... Trade secret my A$$... What's wrong with : "Look at this fun watch with a fascinating movement we've been able to make and sell for $200.00". Eyeore and his animitronic Charlie McCarthy are their own worst enemies.. There is an interesting sleight of hand in putting the word "Swiss" in the name of their subsidiary, which enables them to mislead. ... Dragoon April 11th, 2006, 23:39 Eddy....I do agree with you completely and have been an advocate of truthfulness on the part of Eyal on SNBC for years. Again....many times incomplete or half truths. IN retrospect and in thinking about this earlier today....I really do believe that Eyal is just using what many others now utilized in the modern world or advertising and marketing with great success. Simply what the folks who brought us "1984" and "Clockwork Orange" called "doublespeak". It goes on all around us 24 hours a day .....all the time. From the highest office in the land to the corner grocery stores. Chips which have "0 hydrogenated fats" yet also have zero food value. Cars which have incredible warranties until you need some work and read the fine print as deciphered by the warranty "specialist" at the dealership. Of course, we could go "on and on" with this but this is part of the reason I dont watch a lot of TV and dont really "fault" Eyal as much as others. He really is basically marketing and advertising much as others do. And I dont choose to look at this in the "bad light" of others...i.e. "that he is the only person out there practicing this tactic"...... but also do not condone this tactic or appreciate it myself. Part of the reason I dont watch the SNBC shows anymore. It is important to recognize this for new folks watching or experiencing TV marketing but really it happens in all phases of life all the time. Seems Eyal really does take it to a new level but I think part of this is because it is our hobby and we feel this information should be presented in a very straightforward manner.


The only way you could sell any watch with a "hand skeletonized, hand decorated and engraved movement with Swiss parts/components for $200, is too: sell it at a loss, use slave labor, or be lying about what is really in the case.... Trade secret my A$$... What's wrong with : "Look at this fun watch with a fascinating movement we've been able to make and sell for $200.00". Eyeore and his animitronic Charlie McCarthy are their own worst enemies.. There is an interesting sleight of hand in putting the word "Swiss" in the name of their subsidiary, which enables them to mislead. ... pickle puss April 12th, 2006, 01:06 Swiss Ebauche Movement sounds so much better than Swiss Parts Mov't. Eddyboy

April 12th, 2006, 01:27

"A lie is a lie is a lie"...... "what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to decieve" "Caveat Emptor" .......Dishonest, and shady characters have existed since first there was a customer and a seller.....Happily we, the customers have a little technology that we can use to hang a sign on those who screw us. Like in the ancient homily quoted above, every day the web becomes more and more tangled and treacherous to the perpertator of the lie.. IMVHHO, just because a practice is prevasive does not make it right or make it palatable to me to support them. I think there are a great many manufacturers and sales entities that believe in and practice a win win philosophy and truly value and are thankful to their customer base, and do what is right as a proven successful business practice. I'm not lecturing you or putting you in a bucket with Eyeore, but the ubiquity of wrongdoing just makes our job harder, and does not mean we give up and spread 'em. I really can't tell if Eyeore is congenitally dishonest or just stupid....I'm am, however, convinced that he believes you and I and KenC are stupid...and the rest of his customers too.


Eddy....I do agree with you completely and have been an advocate of truthfulness on the part of Eyal on SNBC for years. Again....many times incomplete or half truths. IN retrospect and in thinking about this earlier today....I really do believe that Eyal is just using what many others now utilized in the modern world or advertising and marketing with great success. Simply what the folks who brought us "1984" and "Clockwork Orange" called "doublespeak". It goes on all around us 24 hours a day .....all the time. From the highest office in the land to the corner grocery stores. Chips which have "0 hydrogenated fats" yet also have zero food value. Cars which have incredible warranties until you need some work and read the fine print as deciphered by the warranty "specialist" at the dealership. Of course, we could go "on and on" with this but this is part of the reason I dont watch a lot of TV and dont really "fault" Eyal as much as others. He really is basically marketing and advertising much as others do. And I dont choose to look at this in the "bad light" of others...i.e. "that he is the only person out there practicing this tactic"...... but also do not condone this tactic or appreciate it myself. Part of the reason I dont watch the SNBC shows anymore. It is important to recognize this for new folks watching or experiencing TV marketing but really it happens in all phases of life all the time. Seems Eyal really does take it to a new level but I think part of this is because it is our hobby and we feel this information should be presented in a very straightforward manner. KenC April 12th, 2006, 01:55 Yeah.............I agree with Eddy too...........and now, I am NOT going to spend 4 more paragraphs explaining it away and pretending it is okay (in retrospect) for Eyal and Corona Gorda and SNBC to do it because other unscrupulous marketers also do it...............as Eddy said, "A lie is a lie is a lie........." Eddy....I do agree with you completely and have been an advocate of truthfulness on the part of Eyal on SNBC for years. Again....many times incomplete or half truths. IN retrospect and in thinking about this earlier today....I really do believe that Eyal is just using what many others now utilized in the modern world or advertising and marketing with great success. Simply what the folks who brought us "1984" and "Clockwork Orange" called "doublespeak". It goes on all around us 24 hours a day .....all the time. From the highest office in the land to the corner grocery stores. Chips which have "0 hydrogenated fats" yet also have zero food value. Cars which have incredible warranties until you need some work and read the fine print as deciphered by the warranty "specialist" at the dealership. Of course, we could go "on and on" with this but this is part of the


reason I dont watch a lot of TV and dont really "fault" Eyal as much as others. He really is basically marketing and advertising much as others do. And I dont choose to look at this in the "bad light" of others...i.e. "that he is the only person out there practicing this tactic"...... but also do not condone this tactic or appreciate it myself. Part of the reason I dont watch the SNBC shows anymore. It is important to recognize this for new folks watching or experiencing TV marketing but really it happens in all phases of life all the time. Seems Eyal really does take it to a new level but I think part of this is because it is our hobby and we feel this information should be presented in a very straightforward manner. Dragoon

April 12th, 2006, 02:18 Each is entitled to their own opinion, Ken. No one is asking you to explain away anything. I think we have been down this road and we do have differing opinions about a lot of topics in this arena. I choose to accept the world as it is...with all its faults. Still not a bad place to live, IMO. KenC

April 12th, 2006, 02:31 Each is entitled to their own opinion, Ken. No one is asking you to explain away anything. I think we have been down this road and we do have differing opinions about a lot of topics in this arena. I choose to accept the world as it is...with all its faults. Still not a bad place to live, IMO.

Okay.....I understand that............but I am simply confused as to how one can be "an advocate of truthfulness on the part of Eyal on SNBC for years" and then, condone his actions. To me, that is "doublespeak" :think: ! motorboat

April 12th, 2006, 03:43 Swiss Ebauche Movement sounds so much better than Swiss Parts Mov't.


It's all part of Eyal's business model of making the consumer think he is getting more for his money than he really is. They use Swiss Ebauche on a Chinese made watch the same way they tell you a $2000 Breitling uses the same Swiss quartz movement. It's all designed to make you think you're getting a steal of a deal. Not that you haven't figured that out already. Dragoon April 12th, 2006, 04:38 I accept his actions...not condone. Just as I accept a lot of advertising and marketing projects because they really dont seek my counsel prior to launching their campaign.:-D But, it certainly doesnt mean I condone or approve of those type of half truths. I have been quite outspoken about this topic over the years. And I think Eyal is playing by the same rules as others in the business world of today but putting his spin on it. In my opinion, he is playing within the framework of the rules of todays business world. It is just that many of us do not like the rules used in the marketing game and the business world the way it is played today. Myself included. I dont see the tactics of Eyal as being significantly different than those in other industries. He does tend to heap it on and it works for him. Caveat Emptor!

Okay.....I understand that............but I am simply confused as to how one can be "an advocate of truthfulness on the part of Eyal on SNBC for years" and then, condone his actions. To me, that is "doublespeak" :think: ! KenC

April 12th, 2006, 15:56 I certainly understand what you are saying...............but IMO, that is a pretty fragile bridge. The framework, while never perfect, gets to this point because people accept it. When is it simply "putting spin" on it and when does it become fraud.............acceptance of illegal and unethical behavior begets a continuing decline in that behavior and, ultimately, an "acceptance" of an ever declining society. Thus, for example, the "dumbing down" of today's public education system. But back to business; within the last 100 years, the "framework" of business allowed for 16 hour work days, 7 day work weeks and, last, but not least, abusive child labor. Now, I know that you, of course, would not condone it, but would you sit there and accept it, simply because that these companies that adhered to this type of employment were, to use your words, "playing within the framework of the rules of todays business world. It is just that many of us do not like the rules used in the marketing game and the business world the way it is played today". Or would


you have "stepped-up", tried to dissuade others from supporting those companies products or would you have "accepted" it and attempted to explain it away? Would you have stated, "....I dont see the tactics of (these companies) as being significantly different than those in other industries."? I accept his actions...not condone. Just as I accept a lot of advertising and marketing projects because they really dont seek my counsel prior to launching their campaign.:-D But, it certainly doesnt mean I condone or approve of those type of half truths. I have been quite outspoken about this topic over the years. And I think Eyal is playing by the same rules as others in the business world of today but putting his spin on it. In my opinion, he is playing within the framework of the rules of todays business world. It is just that many of us do not like the rules used in the marketing game and the business world the way it is played today. Myself included. I dont see the tactics of Eyal as being significantly different than those in other industries. He does tend to heap it on and it works for him. Caveat Emptor! Ray MacDonald April 12th, 2006, 16:06 I can't believe that anybody could take a look at the elegant Edox and Damasko models just posted here and then want to buy something like this. Call me old fashioned I guess. :-S jaymz April 12th, 2006, 16:48 To me, the proof here is pretty obvious that Inbarfta uses subcontarctors to assemble their watches or source the parts. Go to the SNBC sitre and look at the Diablo II watch. The case and band are exactly the same as my Chinese made Arbutus Art Deco case (different movements, however). Jim http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/jjaymz/arbutus.jpg I still have a difficult time believing that Invicta even assembles the movements............The "factory" locations are still an international secret to us mere commoners. JMHO (not really as it is the consensus) that Invicta is merely a marketing company that has its products oem'd by others - hence the huge lack of QC. But, on the other hand, EL said true, so..........................


KenC April 12th, 2006, 17:06 I can't believe that anybody could take a look at the elegant Edox and Damasko models just posted here and then want to buy something like this. Call me old fashioned I guess. :-S Ray............need a real picture.....the Red X is copyrighted by moi! :-D :-D :-D mcubed April 12th, 2006, 17:27 To me, the proof here is pretty obvious that Inbarfta uses subcontarctors to assemble their watches or source the parts. Go to the SNBC sitre and look at the Diablo II watch. The case and band are exactly the same as my Chinese made Arbutus Art Deco case (different movements, however). Jim http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/jjaymz/arbutus.jpg Just looked, cases and band are different. The line going along the side of the case connects with the corner of the lugs in the invicta, and travels down the lugs in the watch above. Also the end link configuration is different. Also, not sure why this matters. most brands outsource this stuff.....even omega and TAG. twjohnso April 12th, 2006, 17:46 "A lie is a lie is a lie"...... "what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to decieve" "Caveat Emptor" .......Dishonest, and shady characters have existed since first there was a customer and a seller.....Happily we, the customers have a little technology that we can use to hang a sign on those who screw us. Like in the ancient homily quoted above, every day the web becomes more and more tangled and treacherous to the perpertator of the lie.. IMVHHO, just because a practice is prevasive does not make it right or make it palatable to me to support them. I think there are a great many manufacturers and sales entities that believe in and practice a win win philosophy and truly value and are thankful to their customer base, and do what is right as a proven successful business practice. I'm not lecturing you or putting you in a bucket with Eyeore, but the ubiquity of wrongdoing just makes our job harder, and does not mean we give up and spread 'em. I really can't tell if Eyeore is congenitally dishonest or just stupid....I'm am, however, convinced that he believes you and I and KenC are stupid...and the rest of his customers too.


I couldn't agree with you more. So often, people accept something that is wrong just because it happens all the time. In affect, we change the standards when we do this. I guess a good answer to this notion is saying that it is good to expose a lie as such, making that "normal" also twjohnso April 12th, 2006, 18:10 I certainly understand what you are saying...............but IMO, that is a pretty fragile bridge. The framework, while never perfect, gets to this point because people accept it. When is it simply "putting spin" on it and when does it become fraud.............acceptance of illegal and unethical behavior begets a continuing decline in that behavior and, ultimately, an "acceptance" of an ever declining society. Thus, for example, the "dumbing down" of today's public education system. But back to business; within the last 100 years, the "framework" of business allowed for 16 hour work days, 7 day work weeks and, last, but not least, abusive child labor. Now, I know that you, of course, would not condone it, but would you sit there and accept it, simply because that these companies that adhered to this type of employment were, to use your words, "playing within the framework of the rules of todays business world. It is just that many of us do not like the rules used in the marketing game and the business world the way it is played today". Or would you have "stepped-up", tried to dissuade others from supporting those companies products or would you have "accepted" it and attempted to explain it away? Would you have stated, "....I dont see the tactics of (these companies) as being significantly different than those in other industries."? Very well said, Ken. Speaking out about something wrong helps change the world in a positive way. Dragoon April 12th, 2006, 19:24 Ken....we are talking about watches. I mean...if we want to take it to the ultimate end point...would you accept oxygen into your lungs that has been breathed by other people? Lets try to keep it somewhat business or watch related. I Dont think abusive Child labor practices come into play in this discussion. Folks should vote how they feel ultimately with their dollars in this instance. Whatever they choose to do is fine with me. As I have said, I dont consider Eyal's marketing strategies outside what other


acceptable businesses practice and I have had good customer feedback from the watches I have sold and from the ones I have owned. I didnt say perfect, but good. With Eyals marketing, I didnt say absolutely excellent, but acceptable. It seems to work very well for him and he does "own" the company and make the decisions.

I certainly understand what you are saying...............but IMO, that is a pretty fragile bridge. The framework, while never perfect, gets to this point because people accept it. When is it simply "putting spin" on it and when does it become fraud.............acceptance of illegal and unethical behavior begets a continuing decline in that behavior and, ultimately, an "acceptance" of an ever declining society. Thus, for example, the "dumbing down" of today's public education system. But back to business; within the last 100 years, the "framework" of business allowed for 16 hour work days, 7 day work weeks and, last, but not least, abusive child labor. Now, I know that you, of course, would not condone it, but would you sit there and accept it, simply because that these companies that adhered to this type of employment were, to use your words, "playing within the framework of the rules of todays business world. It is just that many of us do not like the rules used in the marketing game and the business world the way it is played today". Or would you have "stepped-up", tried to dissuade others from supporting those companies products or would you have "accepted" it and attempted to explain it away? Would you have stated, "....I dont see the tactics of (these companies) as being significantly different than those in other industries."? KenC April 12th, 2006, 19:48 No....................we are talking about business ethics, fraud and lying. We are talking about right and wrong. Perhaps you are now attempting to parse your word to limit it to the "watch" industry ("As I have said, I dont consider Eyal's marketing strategies outside what other acceptable businesses practice.........."). And who determines that these other businesses that practice deception are "acceptable"? Bottom line, at least to me, is that principles are principles....you either have them or you don't.......so in what industries are fraud and deceipt not acceptable to you?.........where do you draw the line? Is it okay to fraudulantly advertise watches and jewelry, but not shoes and cars or perhaps, diapers and tires? So "Truth in Advertising" is not a principle to you? If the rest of the medical


industry is fraught with an unethical framework, then is it okay for you to act accordingly? Dragoon

April 12th, 2006, 23:16 I guess we just differ on what we consider alleged "fraud". I do not consider Eyal to be crossing that threshold. You obviously do. I consider Eyal to be working within the framework of currently acceptable business practices. While he may sensationalize I do not think he crosses into the area of "fraud". For instance: 1.)) He states they offer a free 4 yr warranty extension (at least when I watched the propgram a year or so ago)....and I have received written confirmation of my warranty submissions. Nice of them to now send postcard confirmations of the extended warranty applications. And something we had requested previously. Again, a step in the right direction. 2.) He states that they will ship you any given watch he shows on the program if you order and pay for it with an acceptable payment method. This is usually complied with unless if they have a shortage , oversell or some other unforseen circumstance. While this is not the best situation....I think it is within my personal framework of acceptability. We are not talking about life sustaining medicines.....so I do accept certain shortcomings in this area wihtout much complaint. 3.) He does claim certain features on his watches and I find that those features are on the watches. He does offer a one year limited warranty on all of his watches which I find when I open the box flap. 4.) The watches he states are "Swiss Made" for the most part do have "swiss made" on the dial or case back. I will say that occasionally they do make an error in this area as one forum member stated recently where it was a "swiss movemt" and not "swiss made". I do give them some lee way on this for two reasons. Point #1-This is live TV! Until you try to do something like this you do not realize how easy it is to make a misstatement. Very very easy to do. So, I personally try to show some latitude in this area due to point #2. Point #2 If you find any of these statements are not true....you have 30 days to return the product. Even if you just dont like it. I do not know too many retail establishments with this policy. This is why I think it really is a no brainer if you like the style of the watch. Yes, it is a little inconvenient to ship it back , but, hey, you have that option if you dont like anything at all about the watch. 5.) We could debate many of the smaller statements about factories, origins of movments, customer service, QA, and the like. But, to me, this is all a matter of


opinion and semantics. There are statements made in this area where I wish Eyal was more straightforward and less elusive. But, again, it is his business. I find I can live with most aspects of Invicta watches and they fall within the realm of acceptablility. I do thoroughly inspect all pieces I get from the start so this may help with some of the other issues. You have owned 6 INvicta watches Ken. 6. I have seen 100's of them in person and there is an occasional QA or QC problem. MOreso than Rolex or Seiko I would guess. But, I can live with that and while I dont know the total number of watches Invicta sells in a year.... I think we can agree that the total accumulated sum of wathes on this forum are not a statistically significant sample data to make sweeping and accurate accusations about and concerning Invicta watches. So, while you may have your opinions.....that is for the most part all you or I have. Eyal seems to be a very aggresive business man who plays within the rules of the business. I dont have a problem with that. Now, if you want to talk about Enron or World Com....or starting wars based on false assumptions....then we could talk about ethics and morals and national consequences.

No....................we are talking about business ethics, fraud and lying. We are talking about right and wrong. Perhaps you are now attempting to parse your word to limit it to the "watch" industry ("As I have said, I dont consider Eyal's marketing strategies outside what other acceptable businesses practice.........."). And who determines that these other businesses that practice deception are "acceptable"? Bottom line, at least to me, is that principles are principles....you either have them or you don't.......so in what industries are fraud and deceipt not acceptable to you?.........where do you draw the line? Is it okay to fraudulantly advertise watches and jewelry, but not shoes and cars or perhaps, diapers and tires? So "Truth in Advertising" is not a principle to you? If the rest of the medical industry is fraught with an unethical framework, then is it okay for you to act accordingly? KenC

April 13th, 2006, 01:35 All I can do at this point is laugh.................because selective ethics are a joke! One either has a moral compass...........or they don't! .......and your assumptions of agreement are dead wrong! :-D


I guess we just differ on what we consider alleged "fraud". I do not consider Eyal to be crossing that threshold. You obviously do. I consider Eyal to be working within the framework of currently acceptable business practices. While he may sensationalize I do not think he crosses into the area of "fraud". For instance: 1.)) He states they offer a free 4 yr warranty extension (at least when I watched the propgram a year or so ago)....and I have received written confirmation of my warranty submissions. Nice of them to now send postcard confirmations of the extended warranty applications. And something we had requested previously. Again, a step in the right direction. 2.) He states that they will ship you any given watch he shows on the program if you order and pay for it with an acceptable payment method. This is usually complied with unless if they have a shortage , oversell or some other unforseen circumstance. While this is not the best situation....I think it is within my personal framework of acceptability. We are not talking about life sustaining medicines.....so I do accept certain shortcomings in this area wihtout much complaint. 3.) He does claim certain features on his watches and I find that those features are on the watches. He does offer a one year limited warranty on all of his watches which I find when I open the box flap. 4.) The watches he states are "Swiss Made" for the most part do have "swiss made" on the dial or case back. I will say that occasionally they do make an error in this area as one forum member stated recently where it was a "swiss movemt" and not "swiss made". I do give them some lee way on this for two reasons. Point #1-This is live TV! Until you try to do something like this you do not realize how easy it is to make a misstatement. Very very easy to do. So, I personally try to show some latitude in this area due to point #2. Point #2 If you find any of these statements are not true....you have 30 days to return the product. Even if you just dont like it. I do not know too many retail establishments with this policy. This is why I think it really is a no brainer if you like the style of the watch. Yes, it is a little inconvenient to ship it back , but, hey, you have that option if you dont like anything at all about the watch. 5.) We could debate many of the smaller statements about factories, origins of movments, customer service, QA, and the like. But, to me, this is all a matter of opinion and semantics. There are statements made in this area where I wish Eyal was more straightforward and less elusive. But, again, it is his business. I find I can live with most aspects of Invicta watches and they fall within the realm of acceptablility. I do thoroughly inspect all pieces I get from the start so this may help with some of the other issues.


You have owned 6 INvicta watches Ken. 6. I have seen 100's of them in person and there is an occasional QA or QC problem. MOreso than Rolex or Seiko I would guess. But, I can live with that and while I dont know the total number of watches Invicta sells in a year.... I think we can agree that the total accumulated sum of wathes on this forum are not a statistically significant sample data to make sweeping and accurate accusations about and concerning Invicta watches. So, while you may have your opinions.....that is for the most part all you or I have. Eyal seems to be a very aggresive business man who plays within the rules of the business. I dont have a problem with that. Now, if you want to talk about Enron or World Com....or starting wars based on false assumptions....then we could talk about ethics and morals and national consequences. Dragoon April 13th, 2006, 02:29 Well, if you are basing your astute observations and conclusions on a statistically insignificant sample of product basically you have a flawed "data set" which leads to flawed conclusions. So, while you may not agree with me....I think your conclusions do not reflect "reality" or at least we cannot confirm that they are accurate due to lack of data. As far as moral compass, I think you live in a very "special" world. Congrats! I dont need my watch manufacture to live up to my moral compass. Otherwise, I guess we would all own Seiko or Rolex watches...or I guess we could take it to Breuget or Patek if we really wanted to "morally" proper according to the Patek Phillipe folks. You know how watch snobs can be!! Tsk, Tsk, Tsk!!:-D :-D Perhaps your conclusions reflect "your reality" of ownership of 6 Invicta watches. But, I certainly think your "global" views of Invicta are less than accurate. But, the marketplace will dictate the future of Invicta and if they are truly less than an acceptable product....the marketplace will stop their "amazing growth" in the watch world. I doubt we will need to worry about world dominance by Invicta in the next few years in the watch world but Invicta does put forth a mighty effort. Tragic Amen, Shalom, Koombayah and can we be done? KenC

April 13th, 2006, 02:32

April 13th, 2006, 02:41


:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D Well, if you are basing your astute observations and conclusions on a statistically insignificant sample of product basically you have a flawed "data set" which leads to flawed conclusions. So, while you may not agree with me....I think your conclusions do not reflect "reality" or at least we cannot confirm that they are accurate due to lack of data. As far as moral compass, I think you live in a very "special" world. Congrats! I dont need my watch manufacture to live up to my moral compass. Otherwise, I guess we would all own Seiko or Rolex watches...or I guess we could take it to Breuget or Patek if we really wanted to "morally" proper according to the Patek Phillipe folks. You know how watch snobs can be!! Tsk, Tsk, Tsk!!:-D :-D Perhaps your conclusions reflect "your reality" of ownership of 6 Invicta watches. But, I certainly think your "global" views of Invicta are less than accurate. But, the marketplace will dictate the future of Invicta and if they are truly less than an acceptable product....the marketplace will stop their "amazing growth" in the watch world. I doubt we will need to worry about world dominance by Invicta in the next few years in the watch world but Invicta does put forth a mighty effort. Dragoon April 13th, 2006, 03:28 Whats the hurry, Tragic....do you have to be somewhere soon? Ken feels particularly slighted tonight by Invicta and Eyal. What else is new???:-D :-D :-D Amen, Shalom, Koombayah and can we be done? TMK

April 13th, 2006, 04:57 Have to Agree with Tony....Why :-S Claims of this Watch being a Customized Hand Engraved Movement are Just Plain Old BS in The Highest Power :-D:-D No way!?!?!? What next, no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny?!?!?!? Oh, the humanity...I am shattered.... SHEDOOBEE :) :) Ted


KenC :-S :-S :think: :-D :-D :-D :-D

April 13th, 2006, 16:31

Whats the hurry, Tragic....do you have to be somewhere soon? Ken feels particularly slighted tonight by Invicta and Eyal. What else is new???:-D :-D :-D

Another Invicta Skelton watch Ommpa Lupah aka Jim Skelton  

jakisbck April 10th, 2006, 15:58 Brotha E its the same movt but different case as all the othersB-) View Full Version : Another Invicta "Ske...

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