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that introduce racist ideas. Dr. Kendi: Scholars and scientists have found that by 3 years old our kids have an adult-like conception of race; that by 3 years old our kids are attaching negative qualities to dark people and deciding that they will not play with them because they are dark — particularly white children. This is the period in preschool and elementary school when parents are generally not talking to their kids at all about race. And that is actually showing up in studies that show most kids think that their parents hold —particularly white kids — more racist ideas than they really do. So their perceptions are partly because their parents don’t say anything. Their children are seeing their nonverbal behavior, which is likely racist. Dr. DiAngelo: I don't think a lot of us understand what we're doing with our nonverbal behavior that’s communicating these ideas. Will you give a few examples?
we were just talking about — nonverbal behavior. Your racist ideas are going to come out in your nonverbal behavior, which is, particularly for children younger than 8 years old, actually more influential than your verbal behavior. It isn’t until kids become 9 or 10 years old that what you’re actually stating becomes very influential. What that means is that for eight, nine years, (if) you are not doing any work on yourself to be anti-racist you’re saying all sorts of racist things to your children without saying a word. They’re consuming those non-verbal behaviors and internalizing them. To raise an anti-racist child, we have to raise ourselves to be anti-racist.
Dr. Kendi: You’re a white parent with a white child. You have over a Latinx boy and something goes missing later in the day. The first thing you ask is “did that boy take it?” But last week when you had a white boy over, that wasn't your first sort of question. So why can't that parent say “Do you wanna call your friend and make sure he didn't lose anything too?” “If you are not doing any Dr. DiAngelo: You Or, when you are walking down the street talk about race racial work on yourself to be and a black male is empathy. I notice that anti-racist you're saying white parents often approaching you and all sorts of racist things address racism with you are getting scared in a way that you did not to your children without white children by saying get scared of the white how unfair it is and how saying a word. To raise man who passed you sad that it happens and previously. Your child can an anti-racist child, we therefore we need to see that. have to raise ourselves to be very “nice” to other A study of racial attichildren and “help” be anti-racist.” tudes of white children them. Similar to how (shows) attitudes are we talk about children —DR. IBRAM X. KENDI actually more consistent with disabilities: “Isn't it with the number of interracial friendships tragic that this child has this struggle and that their mother has than the actual racial we need to be nice to them.” What are your attitude of the mother. Why would that be? thoughts about that approach? Because a child can see that if you are rarely bringing people of color to your home and Dr. Kendi: Your book, Nice Racism, speaks you're almost always bringing white people, to this. I think that we conflate empathy with you’re saying who you value. niceness. But you can be nice to a person who you consider to be your inferior. You can Dr. DiAngelo: One of my favorite quotes be nice to a person who you consider needs from you is that while we may not be the your help because you imagine that they are producers of racist ideas, we've all been underdeveloped and need to be civilized, so the consumers. So can parents raise an you’re approaching them from this paternalanti-racist child if they have not addressed istic posture. We really need to distinguish the inevitable absorption of racist ideas empathy from niceness. within themselves? Dr. DiAngelo: You are clear and so am I Dr. Kendi: It's very difficult because of what that there's no such thing as “not racist.”
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So, what do parents need to understand about that claim? Dr. Kendi: Because many parents believe, wholeheartedly, that they are quote “not racist,” they also believe, wholeheartedly, that their child is not racist. It’s not even “I am not a racist,” it’s “I can’t be a racist” because I am a liberal or I have a black friend or because I'm a Democrat or because I live in the north. And then with children it’s “Because they're a child, they can't ever say or do anything that is racist.” What I’m trying to get people to realize through my work is that we need to move it off of who we are and who our child is and be focused on what we’re doing. What environment are our children being raised in? From the time a child starts seeing skin color to the time they leave their home, they’re constantly being told people have less because they are less. And they’re being told that those who have less are demanding more and demanding unfair racial privileges or are even trying to replace us. And then they have easy access to assault rifles. . . What do we think is going to happen? All the while the parents believe that they were not racists and their kids were not racist. Dr. DiAngelo: Did anything surprise you as you delved into the research on children and race? Dr. Kendi: I think the thing that probably surprised me the most, which I should not have been surprised about, is just the mountains of research that have been done about this topic for nearly a hundred years, ever since the social worker Bruno Laskar wrote “Race, Attitudes and Children” in 1929. There’s a fascinating study that I cite that finds that (infants) between 3 and 9 months old who grow up in a homogeneous area are less likely to distinguish people from another race. But those who grow up in a heterogeneous environment have a great ability to CONTINUED ON NEXT PAGE >