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Presence Going Through Economic Depression Together with Your Children -- Conversation with My Son Agnes Ip

President and Founder of Presence Ministry, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in California With the ìon-going stock market melt downî, the increase in unemployment and inflation, a lot of family are facing increased financial burden. Children cannot avoid feeling the anxiousness that is around. How can parents guide their children in handling this economic down time? Nurturing children with the proper sense for money, the attitude that the parents have on money is more important than just teaching them regularly how to manage their spending and saving. How parents can set a good example in the handling of money is even more crucial during this depressed economy.

Facing the fear and anxiety together During the past year and a half, our friend have been laid off twice, his family has to face a major financial change. The first time he was laid off, he had to sell off their house. The second time he was laid off, just happened that his work permit in U.S. was about to expire, he had to move his family of four back to Canada. His wife, who had not worked for over 10 years, has to return to the work force. His two young children have to adjust to a new living environment and a new school. The whole family has to go through the loss and anxiety that was brought by the depressed economy. Our two families have been very closed and the children are good friends. When his family moved, my son was feeling particularly sad. He worried for his friendís livelihood, and he felt sorry that God did not open a door for them in USA. Eventhough our family is not wealthy, we never have let our son worried. Seeing what his friendís family had gone through, he has developed an unspoken sense of weariness. He has always known the heavy financial

活 現 事 工- 活出基 督 價值


Newsletter November 2008

和孩子一同面對經濟蕭條 — 我與兒子的一段對話 葉顏瑋茵 活現事工創辦人兼總幹事,美國加州執業婚姻家庭治療師

金融風暴如浪襲捲,一波未平一波又起。失業率提高, 物價持續上漲,使得許多家庭的經濟壓力越來越沈重,孩 子也無可避免地感受到這種緊張的氣氛。在經濟蕭條的時 候,父母親要如何教導孩子來面對這個環境呢?培育孩子 金錢觀,除了平時教他們如何花錢及儲蓄之外,家長本身 對金錢的態度更為重要。在經濟不景時,更是父母親身教 的重要時機。

一同面對徬徨和懼怕 過去的一年半,我們的朋友兩度被栽員,家庭經濟發生 重大的變化。第一次當他失去エ作時,他們賣掉了房子。 第二次失去工作時,因為在美工作簽証即將到期,一家四 口搬回加拿大生活。妻子十幾來都沒有出外謀職,現在她 被迫重回職場。兩名少年子女要適應新的環境和學校。全 家人經歷著經濟不景氣所帶來的失落和徬徨。 我們兩家來往頻繁,孩子們也十分要好。當這個家庭遷 走後,我的兒子特別的難過。他為朋友的生活憂心,也遺 憾神沒有為他們在美國開路。雖然我們的家庭也不富裕, 但以前從來沒有讓我的兒子感到担心。現在他親眼看到朋 友家的遭遇,便產生了一種講不出來的憂慮。他一直知道 父母親的經濟負擔很重, 再加上最近爸爸的工作受 到經濟蕭條的影響,收入 明顯減少。剛進高中的 他,就開始擔心家裏的生 活費用,及將來他和姊姊 的大學學費。

現 化 生命 動 力

burden that his parents have, and with the depressed economy, he knows his fatherís income is getting less. Being just stepped into High School, he starts to worry about his familyís spending, his sisterís and his future college funding.

“So don’t worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Todayís trouble is enough for today.” Matthew 6:34 In 1995, we brought along our two children to come to America to study. At that time, our children were only 1 and 2 years old respectively. During a time without anything, we had taken our lesson of “Faith”, with “Faith” that God would provide, with “Faith” to step forward. So, ëFaithí that God would financially provide become the basis for all our years of serving. However, no matter how we had experienced God, our children must go through their journey of faith themselves. As parents, we must accompany them to go through their fears and anxiety during this journey.

Persistence in giving During financial difficulties, how we give to others and to the ministry could also be a fear factor to our children. To them, it seems that we have taken their money for someone else, and there is no money for them when they needed them. In actuality, the children may not understand that originally we had nothing to begin with, whatever my husband and I have today to give, was originated from God.

“Unless the Lord builds a house,†the work of the builders is wasted. Unless the Lord protects a city, guarding it with sentries will do no good. It is useless for you to work so hard†from early morning until late at night, anxiously working for food to eat;†for God gives rest to his loved ones” Psalm 127: 1-2 I shared with my son, God had leaded me through Seminary School and Graduate School; and now, with ‘Faith’ I am serving in Presence Ministry, with ëFaithí I am going for doctorate degree. In the beginning, my parents did not have any money for us to finish our education, but God has provided our every need. So whatever his need may be, God would provide.

Going through crisis together with your children When my son expressed his worries to me, I did not blame him or negate his anxiousness. I only asked him how he would handle his fear, listened and accepted his feeling. I told him, ìIf there is one day, you are going to college, and we do not have any money, I would stop my study, let your sister and you to finish your education. Even if we need to sell our house and other belongings, I would do it. I love you very much. Today, you are only in 9th grade, there are 3 more years until college. We can pray together, and ask God to provide for all our needs.” I let him know that in times of difficulty, the most important thing for a family is “Respect”. No matter whether the feeling is good or bad, we must share it with one another, and let us go through it together. Time of depressed economy is the best time for family to experience God together. Poverty cannot take away our faith in God, and also cannot lessen our responsibility to give to others in the society. May we be an encouragement to each other! Let us walk through this economic down time together.

馬太福音6:34說:「 不要為明天憂慮,因為 明天自有明天的憂慮 ,一天的難處一天當 就夠了。」 一九九五年我們帶著二個孩子到美國求 學,當時孩子只有一歲和兩歲大。在什麼 都沒有的情況下,我們每天都在學習信心 的功課,憑著信心仰望神的供應,憑著信 心走下一步。所以,在經濟上用信心來依靠 神,對我們來說,已經是多年來事奉的基礎。 然而,不論我們對神的經歷如何,我們的孩子必須 走他自己信心的道路。他們在這條路上的徬徨和懼 怕,作父母的要陪著他走過。

堅持對他人的付出 在經濟困難的時候,我們對他人和對事工付 出,可能也是使孩子感到懼怕的原因之一。在他們 的感覺裏,我們好像是拿了他們的錢,去用在別人 的身上,等到他們需要的時候就沒有了。事實上, 孩子可能不了解,我們本來是一無所用,今天我和 我丈夫所能付出的,都是從 神而來。 若不是耶和華建造房屋,建造的人就枉然勞力;若 不是耶和華看守城池,看守的人就枉然儆醒。你 們清晨早起,夜晚安歇,吃勞碌得來的飯,本是 枉然,惟有耶和華所親愛的,必叫他安然睡覺 (詩 127:1-2) 。 我和我的兒子分享,神帶領我完成神學學士、 心理學碩士的過程,直到現在,也是憑信心在活現 事奉,憑信心上博士班。當初,我們的父母並沒有 錢給我們完成學業,但神供應了我們一切的需要。 他的一切需要,神也一定會供應。

與孩子攜手共渡難關 當兒子向我表達他的憂慮,我並沒有責怪他, 或是否定他的擔心,只是問問他如何處理自己的懼 怕,並聆聽和接納他的感受。我告訴兒子,『若真 到那一天,你要上大學,我們卻沒有錢,我會停下 我的學業,讓你和你姊姊完成你們的學業。即使我 們需要賣房子或其他的東西,我都會這樣做。我是 十分的愛你。今天,你才是九年級的學生,還有三 年多才上大學。我們可以一起來祈禱,求神供應我 們一切的需要。』 我讓他明白,在困難的日子,一家人最重要的 是尊重。不論是好的感受或壞的感受,都可以提出 來分享,我們一起承擔。經濟不景氣,是一家人一 起經歷神最好的時刻。貧窮不可以奪了我們對神的 信心,也不可以減少我們對社會對他人「付出」的 責任。希望我們可以彼此鼓勵,走過經濟低谷。

Parenting Our Children in the Computer Age

電腦時代的子女管教 Katy Lee

Last week a family with a little toddler came to visit us at our home. Since we keep our computer out in the living room area, he immediately saw an opportunity to play. He climbed up on the chair, very naturally put his hand on the mouse, and started maneuvering the pointer on the monitor screen. He was only two years old! The computer is practically second nature for our children. Not only are the schools encouraging the use of computers at a young age, our children are using technology in all aspects of life, from picture sharing and instant messaging, to entertainment and reading news updates. If you are a parent of children and teens today, you are faced with a challenge that is unique to this generation. You are raising children in an age of technology, requiring parenting skills that previous generations have not had to deal with. Would you agree that the influence of the computer and the internet will increase more and more? As computer technology and its applications continue to expand into all areas of our daily lives, parents need to develop skills to parent our children effectively in this culture. Here are three principles to guide us in raising our children in the age of computers:

1. Use the computer as a valuable tool. Many parents ask me, “How can I get my kids off the computer?” My response is, “Are you sure that’s what you really want to do?” Remember, this is the age of technology. Our children will use the computer, whether we like it or not. You can be sure that when they go to college, our children will have unlimited access to the computer. Rather than thinking of the computer as a necessary evil to contend with, we need to think of the computer and the internet as a useful tool, much like an automobile or a television. As with any tool, we give our children instructions on the proper ways to use it, what it should and should not be used for, and how to avoid dangers when using it. Our goals are to teach our children to maximize the best use of the computer and to use it properly. When we clarify our parenting role in this way, we realize the extent of our responsibility. We are not merely a policeman enforcing a set of rules on our children. With our guidance, our children learn to apply moral values and use the computer responsibly.

上星期一個家庭帶同他們的幼童來探望我們。由於我 們家的電腦放置在客廳之中,我們的小客人便立刻看準機 會,爬上椅上,很自然地把手按在滑鼠上,開始控制電腦 螢幕中的指針。我們這個小客人才不過兩歲哩! 電腦實在已成為我們子女生活中的重要部分。這不僅 是因為學校鼓勵更年幼的兒童開始使用電腦,而我們的子 女在許多不同的生活環節中,從分享照片及網上聊天,到 娛樂及新聞資訊等,均離不開電腦技術。 如果你今天作為青少年的父母,一定會感受到一份前 所未有、惟獨屬於這一代的挑戰。因為你正身處一個高科 技的時代,養育孩童所需的技巧是上一代不曾遇過的。 你是否認同電腦及互聯網的影響力在今日的世界只會 與日俱增?當電腦科技及其應用不斷滲透在我們日常生活 中,作為父母,很需要在這文化中建立一些有效管教子女 的方法。 以下有三方面的原則,有助我們在這電腦時代好好培 育我們的子女:

1. 使用電腦成為寶貴的工具: 許多父母問我: “怎樣可使我的孩子們遠離電腦?” 我的回應是 “你真的想孩子們離開電腦嗎?” 請謹記,這是個科技時代。不論我們喜歡與否,孩子 們都肯定會使用電腦的。你也可以肯定,當孩子們進入大 學後,他們將可無限制地使用電腦。 與其把電腦看成一件壞事來忍受,倒不如將電腦及互 聯網視作有用的工具,就如汽車及電視一樣。像其他工具 一樣,我們會為子女們提供正確的使用方法,甚麽該作、 甚麽不該作,以及避免使用時可能發生的危險。我們的目 標是:教導子女們盡用電腦的好處,以及正確使用的原 則。 當我們界定好作為父母在這方面的角色,我們就會了 解我們的責任並不只在于像警察般執行家中有關電腦的紀

2. Use the computer yourself. I was very hesitant to get on the computer, but my son is the one who helped me to overcome my fear: “You can’t break it mom!” Even though we may not be naturally inclined on the computer, it is not too late to learn. Through social networking sites such as the popular and, I’ve connected with friends living in different states and with relatives that I don’t usually talk to. Even my 85-year-old father is learning to enjoy the use of the computer for many functions - email, picture sharing, reading the news, iTunes music (classical music that is!), etc. As parents, we cannot afford to maintain a hands-off attitude about the computer. The more we use it ourselves, the better we are equipped to guide our children in their use.

3. Use the computer as a way to connect with our children. My son talks about Maple Story, or my daughter talks about blogging on Xanga; if I have to ask them what that means, what would be their perception of me as their mother? I would be grouped with the dinosaurs in their eyes! If I don’t understand their world, and don’t even speak their language, the proverbial communication gap and generation gap widens. Here is what I do to use the computer as a way to connect with my children: While they are on the computer (the computer should always be in an open area, never in their rooms), I glance at the websites they are on and write down the website addresses (I have a bad memory). Later I go onto those websites and find out as much as I can about those sites. Open an account if needed, and play around with it just like my children would do. If it’s a computer game, play a few rounds and try to get a high score. At dinner time or while driving in the car, I would open the conversation with something like, “What is your favorite game on Neopets? Guess how many Neopoints I got?” Now I am able to share their interests and we have something in common. This also gives me an opening to talk about potential problems of spending too much time playing on the computer. You are probably thinking, “I don’t have the time or the desire to play games on the computer!”† As I stated at the beginning, this is new territory for us as parents in the age of the internet. We cannot rely on internet filters or spyware to do our job as a parent. Being a parent has always required us to get personally involved, pay close attention, and take the lead in guiding our children. We simply need to transfer that energy to computers and the world-wide-web.

Katy Lee is helping with the parenting ministry at Presence. There is much more to be said about parenting children in the age of the computer. If you would like Katy to speak more on this subject or other parenting issues at your church, please contact Presence. Visit Katy’s parenting website at

律,更是誘導子女們如何負責任地使用電腦,並學到應有的 道德價值。

2. 自己也使用電腦: 我當初對使用電腦也十分抗拒,是我的兒子幫助我克服了 這份恐懼。他說: “媽,怕甚麽?你總不至把它弄壞的!” 縱然我們不會自然地傾向使用電腦,但要學習也總不會遲 的。透過一些促進社交網絡的流行網站如Facebook.com和, 我開始了與一些住在外州的朋友、並甚少聯 繫的親戚交往。就連我八十五歲的父親也開始享受使用電腦 – 發電郵、分享照片、閱讀時事,及在iTunes music享受古 典音樂。 作為父母,對于電腦我們不能抱着與我何干的態度。我們 越多使用,就越能裝備好自己引導子女正確使用電腦。

3. 利用電腦成為與子女聯繫的媒介 我的兒子會談論楓葉故事(Maple Story);我的女兒也 會提到引 導(Xanga) 博客的事。如果我一直問他們這是甚 麽、那是甚麽,那麽他們對這個媽媽的觀感將會如何?極可 能到時我將變成了他們心目中的恐龍一族!若我不明白他們 的世界、不懂他們的語言,我們彼此間的代溝和溝通障礙只 會日益加深。 以下是一些我會利用電腦與子女聯繫的方法:當他們正在 使用電腦時(電腦應常放置在開放式的位置,而不應放在孩子 們的房間裡),我會留意他們瀏覽的網站然後記下來。之後我 會進入這些網站去親身體驗一下箇中的情況,有需要時更登 記一個户口,以便仿效孩子們在網上進行遊戲活動。至於電 腦遊戲,則自己多玩幾次,務求能達到高分為止。到晚飯或 行車時,我會主動打開話題,問 “Neopets的遊戲那個你最 喜歡?猜我可拿到多少Neopoints?”這樣我很自然地與孩 子們建立了共同興趣,進而亦可與他們討論如何有節制地使 用電腦。 你也許會想 “我沒有時間和閑情來玩電腦遊戲!” 正如 我開始便說,這是我們作為父母身處於網絡時代所該探索的 領域。我們不能倚靠網絡過濾裝置及間諜輭件(Spyware)等 來完成父母在這方面的責任。身為父母,我們本該親身參 與、留心關注、以及主動指引孩童。我們只要將這份關注和 精力多些投放到電腦及網絡世界便行了。

Katy Lee 正協助活現事工的親職教育方面的事奉。在這訊息萬變 的電腦時代,在管教子女時,仍有很多值得討論的地方。假如你希 望邀請Katy親臨貴教會分享這方面的題目,請與活現事工聯絡, 或到 Katy 的網站 (ADVENTURESINPARENTING.ORG) 查詢。


MINISTRY UPDATE Dear Supporters of Presence Ministry, Summer has come to an end; were you a part of Presence’s exciting summer? Presence Ministry has organized many events: two Community Events, seven Christopher Yuan 2008 Life-Transforming events in Southern and Northern California, seven Evangelism and Counselors Trainings and a weekend Youth Summer Camp. Through all these events, Presence reached out to over 4,200 individuals and families. At the events in Southern California alone, 38 people made a decision for Christ, and 39 expressed their desire to learn more about the Christian faith. As the Presence staff work with local churches in the follow-up efforts, many heart-warming stories were related to us about the transformed lives of people at different life stages and with various challenges in life. We remain in awe of God’s life-transforming power! In the parenting ministry department, we featured a Parenting Seminar in September, titled “What Every Parent Must Know About Their Kids and the Computer” Parents who attended this seminar were equipped with knowledge and information to better guide their children in the internet age. Much more ministry opportunities avail us this fall and into 2009. We thank you for being a part of God’s work through Presence. We covert your continued support as we press forward with more ways to connect churches to work together to reach our communities.


事工報告 親愛的活現朋友: 炎熱的夏天,活現也特別地忙錄,不知道你是不 是也參與了我們的活動? 七八月分,活現事工在南北加州一共辦了七場的 袁幼軒生命見證大會、七場的佈道陪談訓練、二場社 區同樂會、以及一個週末的青少年夏令營。透過這些 活動,我們接觸了超過四千二百多個人和家庭。其中 在南加州,有38 個人決志信主,39人表達願意更進 一步認識信仰。當我們的同工與地區教會搭配做跟進 關懷時,發現許多溫馨的故事。雖然許多人來自不同 的年齡層,面對生命中不同的挑戰,但他們的生命都 得到更新與改變,使我們不得不讚嘆 神改變生命的大 能! 九月分,活現事工舉行了一場親職講座:“關於 孩子和電腦,每個父母都該知道的事”。參與的父母 親,都學習到如何在科技時代,提昇自己的電腦知 識,以教育這個世代的孩子。 在今年的秋天及明年,還有許多的服事機會正等 著我們。我們感謝您,與活現一同參與在 神的事工 中。當我們用更多元的方式,與教會聯結,深入社區 的需要時,我們需要您持續的支持與鼓勵。

Sexual Brokenness Conference Brought Churches and Experts Together The issue of homosexuality is a prominent topic in the news today. In response to the need for churches to be better informed, a conference on sexual brokenness was held by Presence and several other organizations on October 11-12, 2008. The panel of speakers included experts in the field such as Dr. Bill Tam, one of the five people who wrote and proposed Prop 8 to CA Secretary of State, Dr. Melvin Wong, Licensed clinical psychologist and a member of NARTH (National Association of Research and Therapy for Homosexuality), Sarah Yang, Ex-lesbian and Minister of the Ark, and Carol Wagstaff, Founder and Executive Director of Living Stones Ministries whose former husband was homosexual and died of AIDS in 1993. Rev Darwin Ng provided a Biblical perspective, and Agnes Ip shared from her knowledge in this area. The speakers gave valuable information on the social and cultural background of the development of families, the causes of homosexuality, and the impact of gay marriage on a society. The day concluded with a time of Question and Answer where the panelists were able to address particular interests of the audience. The responses from the attendees were very positive. Everyone was particularly touched by the powerful personal testimony Sarah Yang as she journeyed out of the gay lifestyle. The conference encouraged us that despite our brokenness, Godís love and power is able to heal and redeem each of us. If you missed the conference, you can order a copy of the DVD listed on the resource column.

教會和專家齊聚『性衝擊』研討會 在今日,同性戀是大家所關心的話題。為了因應教會的 需要,並教導下一代對同性戀有正確的認知,活現事工和多個 機構邀請了六位這方面的專家,在十月十一及十二日舉辦了兩 場講座與研討會。 這六位講員包括了 DR. BILL taM (加州第8號法案草擬 人之一), DR. MELVIN WONG (法庭鑑定心理學家), SaRaH yaNG (前女同性戀者及柏克萊大學方舟教會帶領人),CaROL WaGStaFF (活石事工總幹事專門提供同性戀及家人支援), REV. DaRWIN NG (培城宣聖會中文部牧師,agnes ip (婚姻 家庭治療師及活現事工總幹事)。他們以其專業的知識,對同 性戀從社會、文化、心理、生理、家庭、聖經有精闢的剖析。 最後的問題解答,聽眾反應熱烈,發言擁躍。 在這次的研討會中,當 SaRaH yaNG 分享她個人從同 性戀生活形態中轉變的過程,特別令全場動容,讓所有參與者 得到極大的鼓勵。雖然我們處在這個性衝擊的世代,許多人在 性方面都受過創傷,但是 神的愛和能力,大過一切,永遠能 夠醫治和救贖。 為著不能夠參加研討會的朋友,活現事工有錄製現場 DVD,歡迎購買。


e t a d p U

1. Gov. arnold Schwarzenegger has vetoed aB 2567, a bill that would have made the birthday of San Francisco homosexual activist Harvey Milk a statewide “day of significance.” For those who called the governorís office to protest, thank you for making your voice heard. 2. FIRePROOF, the new pro-marriage movie surprised Hollywood by placing #4 at the opening weekend. The movie, which cost less than $1 million to make, brought in $6.5 million. If you havenít seen it yet, catch it in the theaters to support and enjoy this wholesome family entertainment.

1. 加州阿諾州長否決了 aB 2567 法案, 該法案企圖使前舊金山同性戀活躍分子 Harvey Milk 的生日,成為州立『特殊 紀念日』。 2. 『FIRePROOF』這部支持婚絪的電 影,在第一個週末的售票率高居第四, 震撼了好萊塢影壇。這部電影僅 花了一百萬美元的成本,卻造成 了六百五十萬美元的票房。如果 您還沒有看過這場電影,趕快去 享受這部可以全家欣賞的好片。

「活現」與葉顏瑋茵總幹事 十至十二月行事曆

October to December 2008 Calendar for Presence Ministry & Agnes Ip, President DATE 日期

Location 地點


第一華人浸信會 核桃市 First Chinese Baptist Church, Walnut


東區華人播道會 Evangelical Free Church of Walnut

第一華人浸信會 核桃市 FCBC, Walnut

10/ 11-12

聖迦谷羅省基 督教會 First Evangelical Church of San Gabriel Valley, Rosemead


聖達台福基督 教會 Evangelical Formosan Church of Hacienda Heights

11/ 08-09

鑽石崗 Diamond Bar


慕道園華人浸 信會 Monterey Park Chinese Baptist Church

Event 活動 南加州華人浸信會團契 教會發展研討會 演講主題: 家庭和婚姻正被攻擊 Church Development Conference Speaking Topic: Family and Marriage under Attack 國語堂及粵語堂主日信息 題目:加州八號提案 Sunday sermon in Chinese service and Cantonese service Topic: California Prop 8

Supporting Presence 支持活現事工 There are 3 different ways that you can support Presence Ministry. 1. The first way is with a donation of $50 dollars every month. This will help us to cover many of the expenses we have as a ministry.

2. You can support an individual staff member by sending him or her

donations every month so that he/she can continue to serve the Lord through Presence Ministry. If you have a personal relationship with a Presence staff member, ask him/her how you can offer your financial support today!

3. Another simple way to support Presence Ministry is by using

ou can also do your online shopping through Just click Y on the box on the right that says, “Who do you Goodshop for?” This link will take you to a list of stores that you can shop from. And whatever you buy, a percentage of that money will be donated to Presence Ministry!

以下有3種方法支持活現事工。 1. 每月捐獻 50元。您的捐獻可幫助作事工上的開支。 2. 您可每月奉獻支持活現的同工,好讓他/她可繼續在活現事奉主! 若您認識活現其中一位同工,您可向他/她詢問如何在經濟上作出 支持。

「性衝擊」研討會– 基督徒應 如何回 應今日社會的挑戰? Sexual Brokenness Conference How Should Christians Respond to this Social Challenge Today?

主日信息 題目:加州八號提案 Sunday sermon Topic: California Prop 8

「一人一故事劇場」義工訓練 Playback Theatre Volunteer Training

3. 另一方法是使用 搜尋或購物,您就等於直接支 持活現的事工。

Presence Ministry Financial Report 活現事工財務報表

01/01/2008-08/31/2008 Income Expense Net loss as of 08/31/2008 2004-08/31/2008 Total loss

親職講座: 幫助孩子建立自尊心 Parenting class: Helping Kids Build Up Self Esteem

12/ 06-07

活現辦公室, 核 桃市 Presence Office, Walnut

「價值觀教育劇場 – 訓練青少 年領 袖」義工訓練 Instructor’s Training for Presence Youth Leadership Training Courses


慕道園華人浸 信會 Monterey Park Chinese Baptist Church

親職講座: 在美國如何教育華人子女 Parenting class: Raising Chinese Kids in the American Culture

$43,206.04 $63,342.60 -$20,136.56 -$26,166.39

non-profit org us postage


walnut,ca permit no.120 Presence Ministry 20651 Golden Springs Dr., #104, Walnut, CA 91789 909.595.4007

Presence Newsletter 2008 November  
Presence Newsletter 2008 November  

Going Through Economic Depression Together with Your Children - Conversation with My Son