New Day Herald | July 2016

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New Day Herald Volume 29, Issue 6 ∙ ∙ July/August, 2016

In this edition...

Sound Current stories

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The New Day Herald

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Founder: John-Roger Editor-in-Chief: John Morton Editorial Directors: Paul Kaye, Mark Lurie, Vincent Dupont Editor: David Sand Editorial Team: John Morton, Paul Kaye, Mark Lurie, Vincent Dupont, David Sand, Leigh Taylor-Young, Zoe Golightly, Sherie Wylie Graphic Design: Greg Battes, David Sand The New Day Herald, P.O. Box 513935, Los Angeles, CA 90051. All rights reserved, except those specifically agreed to in writing. Reproduction in whole or part without publisher’s written consent is strictly prohibited. Letters to the editor: All letters, written comments, suggestions and questions regarding any aspect of this publication are read by the editor. We reserve the right to edit all submissions. Letters must include your name and address. Contributions: Manuscripts, photographs, art work, line drawings, charts, designs and maps, must be accompanied by a self-addressed, stamped mailer. Contributions will be handled with reasonable care. The publisher, however, assumes no responsibility for the safety of such contributions. All contributed material, including but not limited to manuscripts, photos, line drawings, art work maps and designs, shall be considered as text and part of the submission. The act of mailing or personal delivery of a manuscript and related material shall constitute an expressed warranty by said contributor that the said submission and material is original and is in no way an infringement upon the rights of others. Contributions and manuscripts express the sole opinions of the author, and do not constitute or reflect the teachings, doctrines and policies of the Church of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness.

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N K D M D O P< G J< N D N D I O C @ > D O T

Contents Click any title to go to the article

6 The Sound Current -

Part 2

by John-Roger, DSS

Once you hear the Sound Current or have been connected to it, you use that Sound to direct yourself. As you’re traveling the inner realms of Light, you keep the Light in front of you and you listen to the Sound. You can follow it right back through all the levels into the Divine Ocean of Love and Mercy.

36 A Beautiful Ride by Leigh Taylor-Young

My brain processed the whole story in a second as the phone was ringing. When I answered the phone, sure enough, the voice said, “This is Olga and I have your wallet.” I said, “Oh my God how did this happen?” Olga told me the story.

70 An Interview with Ishwar Puri interviewed by Leigh Taylor-Young

If you can get the radiant form of a Master while he’s alive in his physical body, you are able to then go on with the rest of the journey with him internally, and he is never away. When you get that stage of having the radiant form of your Master inside, you will see him inside and outside. It’s an amazing experience that when you have that, you are able to drive a car and you find that he’s sitting next to you. You’re walking; he’s walking with you. . .

22 The Miraculous Presence of the Lord God

by John Morton, DSS

If you’re not making a choice, you are still making a choice that is a default choice. A choice by default means that even if you refuse in all your power to make a choice, a choice is still made for you.

44 100% - Living and Working with J-R An Interview with Rama Fox interviewed by David Sand

That heavenly experience became a part of my psyche: Knowing that God exists. . . I couldn’t help but consider, “I know God exists and we’re not limited to being on Earth…but why are we on Earth? Does life here have meaning?”

94 Following My Dreams

Changing My Life

by Jonathan Wygant

J-R also graciously allowed us to sell our crystals out of the back of our van at the MSIA Conference for a few years. . . From these humble beginnings, we built Iris Arc into an international giftware company with 5000 accounts nationwide and INC 500 stature.

100 Directory of Organizations 101 MSIA Resources © 2016 The Church of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness


Sound Part 2

This is the Second of a three-part article from a booklet published in 1972.


ou don’t hear too

much about the process of the Sound Current. There are just a few groups that know about this. Some mention it, but if you question them you find they may not have many answers. Their expression of knowledge has been pedantic. In other words, they’re telling you something that they have either heard or read, and they just repeat the information back to you, perhaps adding to it a little

authoritativeness. They may look you straight in the eye and tell you the truth as far as the information level is concerned, but states of beingness are something very different. We in MSIA are working for the state of being, which is really a very easy state to reach. It’s sort of a do nothing, be nothing state, where you do something and be everything. That’s a paradox, but that’s the only way it can be observed—the doing nothing and doing something, being nothing and being all things simultaneously. The state of being is not a state of personality awareness. It’s more of a form of ecstasy. It’s not what we call a “high” or a “low.” I can’t go any further with the word level. It becomes an experience level. And it is the experience of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness that is so valuable.


t took quite a while for her to realize that information is just information,

and until you can experience transcendental consciousness and the movement of the inner consciousness”

6 New Day Herald


By John-Roger, DSS @msiaorg

New Day Herald 7


ltimately, it is the experience that is important.�

8 New Day Herald

Someone once asked me, “Should I come into the MSIA seminars?” I said, “You have to decide that.” She said, “I’ve been studying with another group,” and she showed me one of their books. I said, “The information in that book is rather accurate, but you cannot have an experience level with what you’re getting from it. You’re only getting the information level.” It took quite a while for her to realize that information is just information, and until you can experience transcendental consciousness and the movement of the inner consciousness, it might as well be “baloney.” Some people tend to set themselves aside as sophists, paraphrase things that they have heard, and then pray to God that something takes place with them so they will look good. This type of person nearly always fails. The type of person who succeeds is one who moves and does and becomes and experiences. It’s so important to remember this. It’s the foundation of all consciousness expansion. There is no other foundation. Do you know that people took LSD and smoked marijuana because they could have an experience that they could not have from reading spiritual books or “positive-thinking” books? Something changed inside. These people were attempting to have a transcendental experience, but at almost any cost. I saw a bumper sticker one day that said, “Have a nice forever.” When I saw that, I backed off and thought, “Wow! That’s something that I’d like to have said.” Then I saw another sticker that said, “Pot pollutes people.” And I thought, “I wish I had said that, too. True

or not, it really sounds like it’s right.” And yet, there was no experience level with the bumper stickers. And no matter how good they sounded, they probably weren’t going to alter consciousness. One night I was in downtown Los Angeles, and I heard a local sidewalk minister. I rolled down the car window to hear him more clearly, and he was really doing his number, but I had some difficulty in locating him physically until I realized that he was the only person on the sidewalk. I thought, “Okay, mister, do your thing. It’s fine that you are saying what you feel is valid and relevant,” but no one was having an experience with what he was saying. Ultimately, it is the experience that is important. In the levels of consciousness that I’ve been in, I’ve worked with quite a few great people. A while ago, in another existence, I was working with one who really knew where things were as far as speech and diction and grammar were concerned. He could really lay it out, and my mind became sharp because I had to be able to recite any given section from a tremendous book. He could say, “Page 45, section 22,” and I could just roll it off. And this was supposed to show spirituality. That was my last bit of karma at that level, thank goodness, and then I met a Master who said, “I can give you the experience.” Being very human, my point of view was, “Oh, really? What can you do for me? I have a teacher who is an authority on the Scripture, the authority; he can speak


ou can live without the Light, but not without the Sound—

not once you have had that experience.” @msiaorg

New Day Herald 9

eleven languages and you only speak one. He can do things that are fantastic. What can you do for me?” And the Master said, “Do you have the courage to look?” I said, “Sure.” And just walked away. I really demonstrated for that Master that I wasn’t ready. But something hung on inside of me that said, “Do you dare to you look?” And so I searched out the Master, even though it took quite a while, and I said, “I’ll look.” He said, “Well, that’s fine. I looked and I looked and I looked, and I didn’t see anything. He didn’t have too much to say. He told me about the trees and about birds and the grass, and I knew all about those. I had climbed enough trees and eaten enough grass and had tried to catch enough birds so that I knew pretty much where those levels were. Finally I said, “Will you tell me about God? I came to look. I want to see. So show me. You said you could.” I wasn’t quite that bold; it was more like, “Please, sir, don’t be angry with me or turn me away, but I’d like to see God.” And he said to me, “If you haven’t seen God yet in what you’ve

looked at, I can’t show God to you.” I said, “But I had the courage to look.” He said, “Do you have the courage to experience?” And, at that point, I wasn’t too sure. Something inside of me said, “Sure, if he can do it, you can do it.” And something else inside of me said, “But he can do it, and you don’t know if you can or not.” Something really said, “And you probably can’t.” But I wasn’t going to let that get hold of me because it would surely defeat me. So I said, “Okay.” And upon following his instructions to close my eyes and say his name, I woke up in another place. And in that other place I heard divine music. As far as I was concerned, I wasn’t there for more than a tenth of a second. But upon coming back to the physical consciousness, hours had passed. I had experienced a part of the Sound Current of God. You can live without the Light, but not without the Sound—not once you have had that experience. That’s what the Mystical Traveler brings forward to you in the experience level. It’s not necessarily an information level. It’s not a physical thing. It is the experience that is going on, the experience that each person must tabulate individually, the experience that every person must reckon within themselves.


o you have the courage to look?’

I said, ‘Sure.’ And just walked away. I really demonstrated for that Master that I wasn’t ready. But something hung on inside of me that said, ‘Do you dare to you look?’ .” 10 New Day Herald


nd he said

to me, ‘If you haven’t seen God yet in what you’ve looked at, I can’t show God to you.’ I said, ‘But I had the courage to look.’ He said, ‘Do you have the courage to experience?’ And, at that point, I wasn’t too sure.”


New Day Herald 11

Sometimes people compare their experiences, and one may feel that his experience wasn’t as good as, or was better than, another’s. Sometimes, they both will seek me out to verify their experiences, and we find out that they were actually in the same place, attending the same seminar on the other side. They may not have had the identical experience, but two people in the same physical seminar will not have the same experience either, nor will two people hearing the same tape or reading the same discourse. Someone may attend a seminar and say, “That was really a good seminar.” Somebody else asks, “What was it about?” And the first person says, “I don’t know. I can’t remember what the words were, but it was a good seminar.” It was happening on the experience level. It went past the word level into the experience. The Mystical Traveler has the ability to work with each of you individually, to take you into each realm, to teach you how to work with the Light through all the lower, magnetic realms of Light, until you have established yourself in the Soul Realm.

Once you hear the Sound Current or have been connected to it, you use that Sound to direct yourself. As you’re traveling the inner realms of Light, you keep the Light in front of you and you listen to the Sound. You can follow it right back through all the levels into the Divine Ocean of Love and Mercy. With the Sound you can guide yourself right back into the consciousness of the Supreme God, that which exists when everything else does not, that which we came from, that which IS. So the value of the Sound Current becomes tremendously more important than the quality of Light, inasmuch as you can live without the Light but not without the Sound. Once you have seen the Light, you can turn from it; but once you have partaken of the Sound Current, you can never live without it. It fills your every beingness. It becomes the word made flesh within you. It becomes everything in total. You could live without food and water and air before you could live without the Sound, this stream of the Sound Current that comes down to us. Now, once again, I may have given the appearance that this is a non-tangible quality. It’s very tangible. And I may have given you the impression that this is something that you can’t reach. It’s already inside of you. All you have to do is attune yourself to it.


e in MSIA are working with a source

of power that comes out of the Silent Ones. I can’t give you any definition for it; I’m beyond a vocabulary and beyond a state of realization, but this is where MSIA gathers its force of Light and Sound and Beingness.” 12 New Day Herald

There are many levels of the Sound Current, and I’d like to relate to you what the quality of the Sound Current is on each level of consciousness so that, as you hear these sounds in meditation or contemplation or while doing spiritual exercises, you may have greater success in identifying the realm on which you are traveling. When we are quiet here on the physical level and we are perceiving through our higher senses, the Sound sometimes sounds like a thunder. Sometimes there will be a loud popping sound. When you sense or hear this loud popping sound, it probably means that you have exteriorized part of your consciousness and have moved away from your body. You still have body consciousness because your senses are active. So you will feel your feet, arms, and hands, but you’ll also hear this thundering sound. It’s not like a tremendous type of thunder, but it seems to be more of a steady sound. You might refer to it as a roar, something that just continues on. Some people sense it as unpleasant. They’ll say, “It just feels unpleasant and I want to go higher.” And it’s nice to want that.


s you’re traveling

the inner realms of Light, you keep the Light in front of you and you listen to the Sound. You can follow it right back through all the levels into the Divine Ocean of Love and Mercy.”

When we are moving into the astral plane (the level just above the physical) the Sound that we’re dealing with is much like an ocean sound. It’s like listening to a seashell held by your ear, or like hearing the roaring of the surf. Sometimes you may feel this sound pulsating in a rhythmic pattern. That definition is about as close as any I can give you. All I can really say is, “listen for yourself.” Then you’ll understand what it is. So if you are in meditation or if you have been doing your spiritual exercises and have stopped to listen, and you hear this sound of the ocean, it may mean that part of your levels of consciousness are out and are activated, and you are traveling the inner realms in what we call the astral level. This level carries quite a bit of imagination in it, so you may


New Day Herald 13

start seeing things like specks of light and funny designs; and this then says that you are seeing that—and no more. Some people like to tell you that they know what’s going on in these realms. Remember that someone can be awfully authoritative, and at the same time be deceitful. It might be best to honestly plead ignorance even when you know, lest you be trapped by your own ego. It might be best just to say, “I really don’t know. I have some ideas, but I’m still working on them. I’m still going to work it through. When I have it more perfectly, I’ll let you know.” And, of course, that may be quite a while. The next level is called the causal realm. The sound that we hear there is like tinkling of bells, much like the wind blowing through wind chimes. Have you ever seen the wind chimes or “mobiles” made from long slivers of glass? The sound made by those as the wind blows through, as some hit and some don’t, seems to come pretty close to the Sound Current on that level. It isn’t a distraction, where you think, “I wish that would stop,” but it’s some

thing that you find yourself listening to because it seems to start forming a rhythm. Many times you’ll find yourself chanting the tones taught by MSIA, or you may find yourself chanting the tone of that level in rhythm with the chimes. Sometimes it may seem to sound more like bells than chimes, or like tiny finger cymbals. When you learn to listen to these levels, it can be pretty helpful to you. Sometimes you’ll seem to hear the sound in the right ear and sometimes you’ll hear it in the left ear. You don’t really hear it outwardly through the physical ear. You hear it through the inner ear (the third ear). Some people will actually put their hands over their ears to see if they can shut the sound out, and then they’re disturbed because they have focused back into the physical realm, and that stops the Sound. Then they think, “I wonder if I was really hearing it?” They have moved their consciousness out of that higher level back to the physical, and they’re not going to hear the higher sounds because now they are tuned to the physical, and if they hear any sound, it will be the thunder sound again. The next level is called the mental level; this is where the mind is busy and active. The closest we get to describ-

14 New Day Herald

ing the Sound on this level is to say it sounds like running water. But water runs so many different ways. If you’re by a stream that’s running rapidly down a slope, that running sound would be comparatively loud. If you’re by a meandering brook, that would be another sound. The Sound of the mental realm could be all of those. It might sound like pouring water from a pitcher into another container or like water falling over a waterfall. The higher you get on that realm, the less noticeable the sound of the water becomes. It becomes more refined. It’s almost like listening to the sound of water running flat—and that doesn’t make too much sound. At this particular point you are moving into the next level, which is more of the unconscious or the etheric, and this will sound something like a fly or a mosquito or a bee by your ear—a buzzing sound. This one can be very subtle. To hear this you really have to listen because it will mingle so tremendously with all of your own senses that you find it very difficult to master. This sound is the last one you hear prior to breaking into Soul or pure Spirit.

It’s important that you listen to all of these levels, but it is not so important that you master all of these levels because you’re not going to stay there anyway. You’re going through those realms. As soon as you break through what we call the magnetic, or lower, or negative worlds, you move into the pure realm which is the Soul Realm, and the Sound here is the Sound of a flute. There is a song called "The Swingin’ Shepherd Blues,” and there is a flute solo within the orchestration that comes very close to the Sound of the Soul Realm. Does the flute play only one pitch? No. Again, there are many tones, many variations, but it will sound like a flute. It might sound like a reed flute or it could have the quality of a piccolo. But, when that tone starts through your levels of consciousness, you are actually eating of the manna that comes from Heaven. You’re actually eating of spiritual food. Once you hear this tone, you’ll never be able to forget where it is. A few people incarnate into this planet with that tone installed within them so they know how to get back to that realm. “A few” might be a thousand or two thousand. They


’m talking anthropomorphically here, giving human characteristics to

non-human things, because that’s the level that many of us will understand most easily.”


New Day Herald 15

have this tone and they are termed “self-realized people.” Often they become great teachers and leaders, and you know that they are self-realized. The conscious awareness of their selfrealization may come early in their lives or much later, but as they hear this tone in consciousness, they will move into who they really are and find their way back to their true home. On the realm above the Soul, there is the Sound of the wind—the most delicate, tantalizing sound of a wind that you can imagine. If, in the wildest stretch of your imagination, you create what a beautiful wind sounds like and feels like, you’ll still miss. Trying to relate these sounds to you is extremely difficult. So let your imagination soar; just let it go and you may be lucky enough to get the feeling of what we’re bringing forward here— not necessarily on the word level, but on the knowing level. When you go into the next level, you will hear a humming sound, like the humming of all the angels of all

16 New Day Herald

existences. It’s not a loud or oppressive sound, and yet you feel like it could just rip you apart. You’re moving into pure Spirit at this particular point, and you’re dropping the identity of the Soul. Every process of individuality is being dropped and that Sound action then is moving you away from all individualized expression. Then, of course, you’re moving up to that Sound that might be called “the thousand violins.” It could sound like two billion or nine hundred and ninety-nine or ten thousand. But it is the sound of violins. And this is the most heavenly music that you can hope to reach. Very few people have ever gone this high and resided back in the physical body. It’s most difficult. It makes this physical level extremely hard to live in. It might make you want to commit suicide so that you would be able to live there permanently—except that you don’t make it there through suicide. As soon as a person who has been working with the Mystical Traveler commits suicide, he has turned from the Mystical Traveler and is on his own. The Mystical Traveler does not teach suicide; it teaches salvation, longevity,

and working through patterns here. If you go against the teachings, it means that you’re going to incarnate back because suicide is not the answer. You have no right to take away the expression of your life plan. You only have a right to fulfill the expression. Not too many people get up to this higher source that we call the Light and Sound. Some groups call it one name and other groups call it another name. We simply call it “pure Sound.” The Sound that we hear on this particular level is like woodwinds—clarinets, oboes, saxophones, and flutes. Tho music is so perfectly divine that most people—or you could say most entity forms—that reach there want to stay. (I’m talking anthropomorphically here, giving human characteristics to non-human things, because that’s the

level that many of us will understand most easily.) Next we get up to what we call the level of the pure existence of God, and the Sound there is the H-U or the HU. There is a level above this, which is the level of the Silent Ones. We in MSIA are working with a source of power that comes out of the Silent Ones. I can’t give you any definition for it; I’m beyond a vocabulary and beyond a state of realization, but this is where MSIA gathers its force of Light and Sound and Beingness. There are none who are higher than this source; there are others who are as high (and let’s keep that in mind) but their function is different. The Source that we’re working out of has combined two actions, one of returning soul to Soul Consciousness, and the other one of stabilizing all existences on all levels.

Baruch Bashan


’m beyond a vocabulary and beyond a state of realization, but this

is where MSIA gathers its force of Light and Sound and Beingness.”

Back to Table of Contents @msiaorg

New Day Herald 17

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Contact: Elizabeth Spanton:


John Morton

This article is from an Open MSIA Seminar and Q&A with John Morton held in Santa Monica, California on December 5, 2000.

At the very first MSIA

occasion that I went to, there was a small leaflet that was an introduction to MSIA. It was the very first one I read, the very first version, which I found very profound. It was an orange color, front and back, eight and a half by eleven inches. I probably still have it somewhere tucked away in some box or file because I’ve managed to hang onto the mementos of my journey over the years. It was for me, at the time, one of the most profound things I’d ever read. Recently, I was looking at the information in our current pamphlet, particularly about the Teachings. I was reading it, and I again found it very profound. What I was realizing was that words are all profound. All words have a profound meaning in their own way. Even a word like “the” has a profound meaning because it in some way leads us into what’s next.

The very first paragraph of the pamphlet says, “Most religions teach that God is always with us. In MSIA we work to become more attuned to the presence to make it a reality in our daily lives.” I was struck by how profound that is, to take God as a teaching and move it into a presence so that we really are more aware of that presence as a reality in our daily life. It is something that I’d like you to consider, regardless of whatever else you came here for. It’s in our gatherings and in the teachings that are in various forms from John-Roger, the founder of MSIA. He’s the one who established the current form of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness, and he has shared lots and lots of teachings with us over the years. Some of you may not be subscribing to Soul Awareness Discourses or Soul Awareness Seminars. If anything moves you at this time in a way

“The very first paragraph of the pamphlet says, “Most

religions teach that God is always with us. In MSIA we work to become more attuned to the presence to make it a reality in our daily lives.” 22 New Day Herald

that’s profound, in a positive way, then I would invite you very much to partake in the Discourses. The Soul Awareness Seminars are a kind of parallel format, in a way, of audio recordings of various seminars that John-Roger has conducted. I was listening to a Soul Awareness Seminar, which was recorded several years ago, and finding that there is a quality in the aspect of the profoundness that we’re dealing with here that goes through time. What was being addressed and spoken of by JohnRoger in 1971 is very much how I relate to it today. There is a kind of consistency that runs through what we do that is about the presence. We are in an eternal loving presence, and when we awaken to that @msiaorg

New Day Herald 23

presence, when we make ourself available to that presence, miraculous things can happen. If you’re missing the miraculous in some way, just take a check, a little personal inventory in your life right now. Where is your miraculous quotient at the moment? How would you rate yourself miraculously? Do you really consider that you have a miraculous life? We often like to use a scale of one to ten, ten being the highest. Consider where you would be on that scale? If you’re not really on the higher end of the miraculous scale in your experience, I would like to invite you to move higher, in case you need that invitation. Perhaps you can consider more of what we are dealing with the Spirit as miraculous. We’re considering an aspect of this creation, however you view it, that has no limits.

“We are in an eternal

loving presence, and when we awaken to that presence, when we make ourself available to that presence, miraculous things can happen.”

24 New Day Herald

With God, All Things are Possible Someone said, “With God, all things

are possible.” Have you heard that before? Take a little inventory of yourself. Is that how you conduct yourself as you go through the day? That with you and your life all things are possible? Is that your attitude? Certainly we could weigh in and ask, “Are you also saying that the negative is possible, too?” Yes, it is important to consider that all the negativity is possible. I often remind people that we all have a preference. We all have choices. If I were to offer you openly and freely whatever you want, you would make a choice clearly as a preference. If I could simplify it for you and say you could either have the positive or the negative, do you know what your preference would be? Maybe some of you are wondering if this is a setup, like it’s a trick question. You’re not sure you want to indicate at this moment what your preference would be. If you’re not making a choice, you are still making a choice that is a default choice. A choice by default means that even if you refuse in all your power to make a choice, a choice is still made for you. Have you experienced that?

“If you’re not

making a choice, you are still making a choice that is a default choice. A choice by default means that even if you refuse in all your power to make a choice, a choice is still made for you.”

Life has a way of moving along regardless of how you feel about it. Whether you like it or not, it moves along. Choices occur and you may not agree with those choices, particularly the ones that happen outside of you, the ones in the world. Let’s be more practical. If you consider your financial situation, or where you live, or the relationships you have or any aspect of your relationships, you could find that you have preferences. And you have ways to choose how to relate to your choices. Some ways would equate to positive ways, and some ways would equate to negative ways. As creators we always have a choice level, regardless of what’s happening. Let’s also consider that what’s happening is in some way beyond our control. Have you ever


noticed that? Let’s also consider that God is always in control. And God is always up to good and loving. I know that there are things beyond my control. And I would prefer them to be different. Would you prefer that your finances were different? Perhaps you would prefer that what you deal with on a day to day basis could be different --- where you work, who you work with, or what you do? Regardless of the choices you’ve already made, and this is one of the magnificent beauties of the way choices work, you still have choices. You don’t get a limited amount of choices and then you’re done, like you go to make a choice and they say, “Sorry, you’re out of

New Day Herald 25

choices.” Better choices are available to you. If you consider those choices are ones that are with God, then all things are possible. That is profound --- with God and the choices with God, all things are possible. If it’s not quite your experience, if that’s not quite how life is occurring to you, then consider that you have more room to be with God. When you really get with God, all things are possible. Now that is profound too. We all can work on harmonizing with God so that all things are possible. The first choice is God. When we make that choice, then all things are added unto us. As it says in Scripture, seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven, and then all things will be added unto you [Matthew 6:33]. Just imagine for a moment if you had a day in which all things happened unto you. That could be one wild day. Just consider the things that go on in this world and imagine all of them occurring today. And we’re talking about the gamut --all the things going on. You might be really glad that all things weren’t added unto you today. You might take a moment and give thanks for what didn’t happen.

When we invoke the Kingdom of Heaven, the reality is not all things are necessary. So if you’ll set yourself up to follow Heaven, or seek it as best you can, then the things that are part of that in the very best of what it is can follow. And the things that are not part of it, that are not necessary, can somehow bypass you and spare you. Consider that you could set yourself up so your choices also spare yourself of things that don’t really serve you and aren’t necessary. It’s a matter of seeking God, seeking the Kingdom of Heaven first, and then all things can be added unto you according to what is best with God. It isn’t about what you see. It isn’t about what you hear. It isn’t even about what you know. It’s about faith and trust. That’s really how we can make great gains in the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness. We can follow the line as best we can see it and know it, and there’s still going to be a level of our choice that is working according to our faith and trust in God. You may ask, what are we faithing in and what are we trusting in? Who is this God? What is this God?

“What we seek,

is love. That is the essential quality that you find here.”

26 New Day Herald

Trusting in Love There is a place in Scripture where

it tells us who and what God is. “God is love, and he who dwells in God dwells in love and God in him” [John 4:16]. God is love. So that Scripture is what we are trusting as a faith. That God is love. That’s really all we need to know. That’s enough to know. What we do in this organization that’s called the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness, what we seek, is love. That is the essential quality that you find here. That’s what we’re about. Now you’ll also find other things go on --- things that are more like everything in between and things that we don’t really experience as love.

It’s important to discern that we can be awake, rest, be nurtured, restored and regenerated. In fact, it works better that way to actually go into a state of consciousness so that we’re more awake as we rest. We may find that we’re more awake in other realities, so that the reality of what we call sleep is an inner journey that we may or may not consciously realize.

In the part that we bring with us, what we do recall, it can be an interpretation or translation of something that was beyond our mind or our capacity to be consciously aware in the body. That’s one of the things that we are striving towards in What is the negativity of love? It’s the attempt to this Movement, to be voyagers and explorers into deny love. The only negativity of love is the atthe unknown, past our conscious awareness. What tempt to deny love, meaning it really can’t be done does that mean? How do we take our awareness or is not present. If we don’t experience love, there past our conscious awareness? may be an attempt to deny it. In that attempt to deny love, there’s a separation, a pain, a death That’s the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareand a whole lot of other things that I don’t prefer ness. As we have a willingness to let go of our and I don’t think you do either. There’s no need to conscious awareness of ourselves in this world for denial of love which is also spelled t-r-o-u-band in this body, our awareness can be taken into l-e. The only need is to seek love, to look for love other realms so that we’re ushered into experiin people and things. ences that enlighten us and reveal our higher nature. We bring that back with us even when The reality of our awakening and discovering our we don’t consciously know it. There’s an ability of true self, our true nature, is that we realize love has what we call the Traveler Consciousness to take always been present. Love is an eternal presence. you out of your body, out of the mindfulness of That eternal loving presence is our true nature. Yet this world and into the mindfulness of the worlds we live in a world and an existence where we have beyond, even though they’re unknown and una darkness. We have a separation. That is part of seen to most of us. the perfection of the creation. It isn’t something to be bemoan or feel that we’re cursed, struck, or God We have various versions of what we experience. is asleep, or God is dead. Often there’s a hesitation to want to share or reveal that to one another because one version is different from another version, so others might interpret it as, “You’re weird and you’re strange or crazy, or you should die for that because that’s blasphemy.”


New Day Herald 27

Sounds of Love: Sacred Tones There’s been various interpretations when people have chosen to share their inner experiences. Often inner experiences are not meant to be shared in this world because they are of a nature that’s sacred and holy, and they’re not yet to be revealed. If someone happens to know it, then that’s the Spirit that revealed it to them. There’s a story in the Bible in which Jesus was asking some of the Disciples, “Who do you say I am?” [Matthew 16:13-20]. One of them responded, “You’re the Messiah. You’re the Lord.” Jesus responded that flesh and blood didn’t reveal that to them, but the Spirit did. That’s how you know that about your true self. It’s not necessarily meant to be revealed materially or as a spoken word.

“Our mind can have

lots of rebuttal about what’s going on until the experience takes place.”

28 New Day Herald

In MSIA, we work with what we call the sacred tones and the sacred names. There is a way of relating to those tones that is meant to be unspoken and not heard physically. You cannot hear it with your physical ears. So even what is spoken is not it. It’s a vibration in the physical more from the inner consciousness. When it’s spoken inwardly, it’s a vibration that is in harmony with the spiritual sound.

As we chant the tones inwardly, it vibrates with the inner tone or the Sound of God in a particular vibration. It assists us to bypass the limitations of the physical or human nature, transcend into the other realms, and have the experience even while we don’t know anything more than we’re just chanting a name for God. You may think, “It really doesn’t have any meaning. I don’t know what this means. It’s supposed to be a name of God, but I don’t relate to this name of God. I’ve never met this God, or I never heard God tell me that’s the name.” Our mind can have lots of rebuttal about what’s going on until the experience takes place. One experience that I’ve always found is present when we do chant the sacred tones, what we call Spiritual Exercises, is that we increase ourself. We infuse ourself with the vibration. If we’re observing what happens as a result, we can notice that we’re carrying a vibration that when we sat down, we weren’t carrying. There is in a way a tangible result from the spiritual exercise. Yet if you attempt to make it tangible, it’s as though it evaporates on you.

Have you ever had a dream and it was with you and then it was like you just moved slightly and it was gone? Then you went to try to get it, it was like, “Where did that thing go?” In the moment when the dream was present with you, it was like you couldn’t move because as soon as you moved, you moved out of it. Just in physically moving, you moved off the vibration of what it is. It’s like being tuned in on a radio. If you adjust the dial even slightly, you go off the station. What happened? You moved the dial, and you’re no longer tuned into that station.

Our True Vibration All those who have the ears to hear

and the eyes to see, to have the attunement, have been called into this Movement because you are ready. What does that readiness mean? It means that your soul development or evolvement is such that you can bypass experiences that are no longer necessary for you. What it allows you is that you can pick up on the Sound Current and move on the energy field that is transcending from this world into the level of our soul which is our true home, our true vibration. That’s where we come from. One of the ways you can relate to it naturally is when you consider yourself in this world, you realize this is not your place. There’s somewhere else that you belong. We are strangers in a strange land. If we went home, we’re actually like residents in our homeland. You get the difference? You’re a stranger in a strange land because it’s a strange land. That’s why you’re a stranger here. So when you go home, you realize, “This is where I live. This is natural.” As we pick up on our soul nature, we realize this world is not our home. It’s not an attitude of, “I hate this place,” because that really doesn’t work.


So choose to love this world and love it all. That’s a big key to getting into the soul vibration and bypassing the unnecessary experiences that are here --- learning how to run silent and run deep. Maybe that brings up the image of a submarine. That’s fine as this movement is about the Ocean of Love and Mercy. Have the willingness and an openness to attune to the Spirit. Spirit does what it does perfectly. If you are open such that your intention as you sit there or however you participate is to be with God, to commune with God, to worship with God, then that intention will take care of you because it’s between you and God. In MSIA, we let people have a look and we do what we can to get out of the way so that it is never really about this organization or somebody in the organization. MSIA is not about a personage or personality. Yet there are things that appear exactly as if it is about the personality with a hierarchy to administer things into the world. This world has all kinds of things that, when you get in the Spirit, go by the wayside. As you get higher in the Spirit, you can realize, “This is really beautiful, glorious and truthful world even with the all the negativity.” There’s an opportunity here to use all experiences. That’s part of the beauty of this planet. It requires a lot of strength to deal with the conditions. Just to survive here takes awareness, consciousness, paying attention, and learning how to get along and cooperate with how things work. The movement of spiritual inner awareness is a process of eternally traveling as a consciousness. So don’t stop. Keep progressing. Keep going. Keep refining yourself which is learning how to love it all and find the joy in this place, to take the responsibility that you do have as a being that God sent here. Consider that God sent you here, and the very basic purpose of your life is to make this place

New Day Herald 29

“. . .You can get to the aspect of the Christ that is the

anointing, that is the consciousness of the Messiah that has come into the flesh to reveal the Spirit in the flesh. It can be something that is miraculous in the flesh and yet we know it as ourselves, so that we can reach out and touch the Lord and the Holy One amongst ourselves here and now.�

30 New Day Herald

better than you found it. When you learn how to do that outside of yourself, you will automatically learn how to do that inside of yourself. The greatest consciousness in this world is the greatest servant here. So as you learn how to serve, you are uplifting all. When you walk in a room, that room is lifted. The air becomes clearer and more rarefied because you’re in it, because you’re breathing in the room and what you bring as a vibration is uplifting to all. Who can do that? It’s the Spirit in us.

It is in the sanctity and the holiness of who we are that God shows up. That’s one of the ways I really love this Movement. It has a tendency not to be able to be boxed in to certain things. We have our rituals, and we have our routines and habits and all kinds of things. But the real thing I find going on here is, regardless of where we are, regardless of what’s happening, it’s God’s movement. God is in this world. So let’s get with that eternal love.

Sometimes it is about getting down on our knees We’re doing our best to get what’s inside of us and knowing the humbleness of who we are. In deep, at the very deepest level, to get it radiating that humbleness, there’s a quality that I relate to so it’s in our fingers. It’s in our hair follicles. It’s that as being naked. There’s nothing covering me. I am you’re getting your Spirit out so you’re vibrating not hiding. When you get into some of our classes and radiating. You’re more accurately a radiation, a and workshops, we hear from people in the most pure light and love. disclosing, revealing ways. Sometimes people just completely bare their soul in front of us. It gets If you’ll give God not just half a chance but any very sacred when somebody does that, when they chance to assist you and support you, it’s there. really open themselves so that they’re vulnerIt’s there as much as you will allow. We’re the ones able. What I find is we are those who, because of who place the limitation because we, in some the Spirit that we worship, embrace people as we way, decide, “I’d rather do it myself. Now leave me find them regardless of their history. alone.” The idea that we’re going to somehow do it by ourself and get along without God is ridicuThis is the love of the Christ. I hope those of you lous. Since that’s not the way it’s going to work, who have something about that term, where it you might as well learn how to get along with rubs you or it’s like it stings you if I use it, that God completely. you can get to the aspect of the Christ that is the anointing, that is the consciousness of the Messiah The way that works is to accept God for what God that has come into the flesh to reveal the Spirit in is, and God is everything. That means to accept the flesh. It can be something that is miraculous in everything and learn how to cooperate with God’s the flesh and yet we know it as ourselves, so that higher movement. This is what we refer to as the we can reach out and touch the Lord and the Holy spiritual movement. Get with that movement. One amongst ourselves here and now. The Lord Cooperate with that movement. Are there other is with us, however you experience that. We are movements? Yes, there’s the movement of dense two or more gathered here in the name, that holy awareness. The movement of the infidels. The name of the Lord God who is in our midst. movement of hedonistic expressions. There’s all kinds of movements. Just look around.

Baruch Bashan Back to Table of Contents


New Day Herald 31

Connect with the Traveler’s energy and enjoy this JULY

PORTLAND, OR Loving Relationships Public Workshop - John Morton & Leigh Taylor-Young Morton & Live Streamed Saturday, July 30; 2:30-4:30pm (local time) Unity of Portland, 4525 SE Stark St, Portland, Oregon Cost: $15.00 USD Registration: Michelle Tiernan; 503-548-7975 or

MSIA Q&A for Discourse Subscribers with John Morton & Live Streamed Saturday, July 30; 5:30-7:30pm (local time) Unity of Portland, 4525 SE Stark St, Portland, Oregon 97215 Cost: $25.00 USD Registration contact: Michelle Tiernan; 503-548-7975 or Prerequisites: Active subscription to Soul Awareness Discourses or if completed, SAT’s

beautiful lineup of events

 In Person and / or Live Stream as noted, technology permitting 



KALAMAZOO, MI Open MSIA Seminar with John Morton & Live Streamed Friday, August 19; 7:00 -9:00pm (local time) Radisson Plaza Hotel at Kalamazoo Center West Michigan Avenue, Kalamazoo, MI Cost: $15.00 USD Registration: Cheryl Des Montaignes; 517-745-7750 or

MINNEAPOLIS, MN Loving Relationships Public Workshop with John Morton & Leigh Taylor-Young Morton & Live Streamed Tuesday, August 23; 7:00-9:00pm (local time) Shir Tikvah Congregation, 5000 Girard Ave S, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Cost: $15.00 USD Registration: Kathy Kornblum; 612-554-6766 h/c or


What is Grace? Public Workshop with John Morton & Leigh Taylor-Young Morton Sunday, September 4; 2:30pm - 4:30pm (London Time) Grand Connaught-Cambria Room, 61-63 Great Queen St, London, WC2B 5DA (011)44 (0)20 7405 7811 Cost: $15 USD or 10 British Pounds Registration: Carrie McHale; 44-77-9388-1070 or

Q&A for Ministers and Initiates with John Morton Sunday, September 4; 5:30 - 7:30pm (London Time) Grand Connaught-Cambria Room, 61-63 Great Queen St, London, WC2B 5DA (011)44 (0)20 7405 7811 Cost: $25.00 USD or 20 GBP Registration: Carrie McHale; 44-77-9388-1070 or

BLESSINGSFEST with John Morton Monday, Sept 6; 6:30pm to Midnight**ending time approx Chandos House - Robert Adams Room 2 Queen Anne Street, City of Westminster 6430, London W1G 9 LQ Cost: $500 USD, 350 GBP Registration: Carrie McHale; 44-77-9388-1070 or

MADRID, SPAIN What is Grace? Public Workshop with John Morton & Leigh Taylor-Young Morton Saturday, September 10; 7:30-9:30pm (Madrid Time) Hotel Courtyard by Marriott Madrid Princesa. 40 Princesa main entrance by 3 Serrano Cost:$15.00 USD Registration Contact: Marina Bustamante:

& Staff

For Live Stream Events visit

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he PAT Trainings were created under the direct supervision of John-Roger to provide a retreat

where people can break through whatever blocks their

conscious awareness of Spirit. If you’ve ever wished you could get free of the habit patterns and mind chatter that get in the way of attuning to the divinity of your heart, this is the training for you.


at Prana West, Los Angeles PAT 3 : J u l y 2 0 - 2 4 More info: Danielle Peterson at 323.328.1958

PAT 2 in British Columbia July 28 - August 1, 2016

More info: Kevin McGinn at or 250-383-2787

PAT 1 in Australia August 24 - 28, 2016

More info:

PAT 1 in Chile

August 31 - Sept. 4, 2016

More info:

Prerequisites: Active subscription to MSIA Discourses, or SATs if 12 years of Discourses completed; PAT 1 for PAT 2; PAT 2 for PAT 3

Enjoying the Small Miracles of Perfect Timing


he whole experience was filling us both with Light. She shared how proud she was of her students and I said I wanted to meet her students too.�

A Beautiful by Leigh Taylor-Young

36 New Day Herald

One evening in June,

I was driving to have dinner with a friend, and ran out of gas. I called AAA and within about 45 minutes a delightful young man, so sweet and full of service, brought me one gallon of gas. He asked where I was going and I said up into Topanga Canyon (an uphill drive). He told me to make sure I got gas before going up the hill because the car wouldn’t register that small amount of gas on an uphill slope, and I could get stuck again. After dinner, there were no gas stations open, but I made it home, forgetting that I had very little gas left. The next morning i had an appointment for which I was already a bit late. As I drove I realized that my car was limping along, and quickly I realized I was running out of gas again. I managed to pull into a service station just in time for my car to stop running. I pulled out my wallet and got gas. I put the credit card in my pocket, put the wallet on top of car, and drove away. I went to my appointment, and when it came time to pay I realized I didn’t have my wallet with me. I thought it must be in the car, but when I went out to the car there was no wallet there.

Ride @msiaorg

At that very moment my phone rang and before I answered it I ‘saw’ the whole scene: I just knew that it was Olga, John’s and my golden assistant, calling me; I “saw” where I had put the wallet, and I had the sense that Olga now had my wallet. My brain processed the whole story in a second as the phone was ringing. When I answered the phone, sure enough, the voice said, “This is Olga and I have your wallet.” I said, “Oh my God how did this happen?” Olga told me the story. She got a phone call from AAA, and they said that there is someone who has Leigh Taylor-Young’s wallet, and this someone would be calling her about returning the wallet. A minute later a woman called Olga and said she was a teacher at Palisades High School. A student saw cash and credit cards flying all over Temescal Canyon, and ran into the teacher’s office to tell her. The student and the teacher went out into the road and found the wallet, opened it, and there were only three cards left inside, which were my SAG card and AFTRA academy card (both actors’ unions) and my AAA card. The teacher said, “Oh my God this is Leigh Taylor-Young. I know her.” It turns out that the teacher used to be a casting director and thought she remembered that I had come to read for her once. (She became dissatisfied with being a casting director ten years ago and went into teaching.) She knew enough not to call actors’ unions to find me because as a casting director she that knew the unions often didn’t call back quickly. The only other card was AAA, and when she called AAA they said, “Oh, we know her because we just got her gas last night.” They agreed to call my office number to connect the teacher with Olga.

New Day Herald 37

After recovering the wallet from the middle of the road (with lots of passing traffic), the student said she had an intuition to look in the trash bin that was in front of the school. And in there, in a pile, neatly stacked sat all my credit cards. It turned out that I got everything back except for one credit card and a health insurance card. I cancelled the credit card. I called the teacher to thank her with all my heart. She said that finding the wallet was an amazing experience because of the closeness she felt with me. She drove all the way to our office in Santa Monica where Olga works (along with the student) so she could deliver the wallet . She wanted to experience for herself how I was going to feel when I got everything back. The teacher told me that while she was driving with the student, she shared what a wonderful thing it is to do good deeds for people. When she met Olga she asked, “Who is Leigh married to now?” (as you might ask only in Hollywood) and, “What is she doing now?” Olga told her that I’m married to John Morton and working with MSIA. The teacher said, “Oh I’ve heard of John Morton and MSIA. I’ve been interested in spirituality for many years.” Olga told her that I would be calling her later, and I did.


t was supremely clear that this was God-given journey, put there for us all to enjoy. It was truly a beautiful ride.”

We had a joy-filled reunion on the phone. It was like a soul-to-soul connection, and we were both giddy with joy. It only appeared to be about the wallet. I asked if she would like to come to an MSIA seminar sometime. The whole experience was filling us both with Light. She shared how proud she was of her students and I said I wanted to meet her students too. I ordered a huge gift basket from Urth Caffé for her and the students. I took it to the high school the next morning, and when we met we all couldn’t stop hugging and sharing the joy. It was absolute heaven. I’m going to invite her to John’s next seminar. It was supremely clear that this was God-given journey, put there for us all to enjoy. It was truly a beautiful ride. Back to Table of Contents

38 New Day Herald

A Spiritual Oasis in the City  Headquarters of MSIA Visits & Tours at Peace Awareness Labyrinth & Gardens Treat yourself to a day of peace and reflection at our beautiful Spiritual Oasis in the City!

 Re-Opening July 26  Tuesdays-Fridays Some Sundays | 12-4 pm Tickets @ Classes & Workshops Weekly & Monthly Starting August 1 Details @

A Spiritual Oasis in the City, Peace Awareness Labyrinth & Gardens 3500 West Adams Boulevard, Los Angeles, California 90018 323-737-4055 | |


Peace Labyrinth

Tuesday, August 16 7:30pm PDT

IN LOS ANGELES & LIVE STREAMED $5 Donation (Live Stream Cost is free) Light refreshments served. Includes Spanish translation Join us for our signature workshop exploring peace and learn how peace is always present, we simply need to go to the place inside where peace resides. Tickets: Watch Live Stream free @

“As you awaken to the peace center within you, you can share that energy and contribute to peace in this world.� -John-Roger, DSS (From: Loving Each Day for Peacemakers, Choosing Peace Every Day)

< N K D M D O P< G J< N D N D I O C @ > D O T

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rrr)k`\^`g\]tmdioc)jmb .-.(2.2(/+00 m`bdnom\m;k`\^`g\]tmdioc)jmb (Headquarters of MSIA)

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Intuition, Health, Openness, and Possibility

Journey into the Sound Current of God a NEW 12-month program Facilitated by Paul Kaye, DSS and Dr. Mark Holmes, OMD Location: PAL&G, 3500 West Adams. Blvd., Los Angeles AND Live Streamed in English with Spanish Translation Saturday/Sunday Month 7: Month 8: Month 9: Month 10: Month 11: Month 12:

July 23-24, 2016 August 20-21 September 10-11 (NEW DATES!) October 8-9 November 5-6 (NEW DATES!) December 3-4

Saturdays 9am-7pm (Pacific Time) Sundays 9am-6pm $275/month: In Person* $250/month: Live Online * Includes Lunch at Prana on Saturday & Sunday ***Special Discounts*** for current MSS/DSS Students, Assistants, Facilitators, and Readers. Prerequisite: Active subscription to Discourses or SATs if #144 complete. Contact: Claudia Olguin, PTS Registrar, or call direct 323-328-1947.

I have found IHOP to be awesome in integrating the spiritual into the body more fully than I ever would have thought possible. To me, it has been an active exercise moment-bymoment in activating all the J-R Spirit principles into the body. And becoming all that I Am - the best version that I can be!!! A Truly Inspired class. I have often felt like we are in a Travelers Mystery School, where time stands Still. The energies are sweet and pure, and though I am taking it online I definitely feel as though I am in the room! —D.W.

Live Stream with MSIA ! Did You Know?

(Let’s see how many you can answer correctly…)

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44 New Day Herald



Living and Working with John-Roger An Interview with Rama Fox

NDH: How did you meet John-Roger?

by David Sand

Rama Fox: Looking back, I see my whole life as a set-up for meeting the Mystical Traveler. Prior to coming into MSIA, I was a model and engaged to someone who was extraordinarily wealthy. While I stayed with him in his homes in Chicago, material things were offered to me with great generosity and enthusiasm. The people with whom we kept company were highly affluent, as well. Prior to that, I had dated various world-famous individuals. What I couldn’t help noticing was, regardless of their fame or finances, although the people I knew were generally nice, they didn’t seem all that fulfilled. It seemed to be a neverending reach for something that eluded them. I began to have a very deep, uncomfortable feeling of emptiness. There was so much being offered to me—a home filled with the most expensive modern art on the planet, as well as a socially busy and seemingly “important” life—but it wasn’t fulfilling for me, either. I was clueless as to what to do. I began to feel terribly lonely inside. Then I read Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha, which is about @msiaorg

New Day Herald 45

the Buddha. He was a prince in India who had everything—was protected from knowing about anything that was ill, old, or unattractive. On the vast grounds of his kingdom everything had to have a pristine and almost perfect appearance. His parents, who were trying to protect him, only wanted him to behold beauty and riches. A childhood friend of his finally took him outside the realm in which he’d been confined—and there he was shocked to see a whole other reality. Poverty, disease, old age. Shocked, heart-broken and torn with compassion, he abandoned everything he had in order to see if he could find a solution to all the

pain and suffering he witnessed. I didn’t compare myself to him, of course—but I deeply related to the story. Sobbing as I read it…it was though he was mirroring my emptiness, but in a much grander way. There was a hint of possibility for me. Part of the “set-up” by Spirit in my life was back when I was eleven years old in Miami, where I grew up. I had been walking on a sand bar when the tide came in. I hadn’t known how to swim and I drowned. I had multi-dimensional experiences— what eventually became referred to as a “neardeath experience.” Personally, I would name it a “death-return experience.”

1972 Miami taped seminar--Rama Fox on couch 46 New Day Herald

I was in God’s infinite presence. I was eleven years old, in a dimension that was infinitely opening before me…full of Light. I still don’t know how to describe it, but every color you could imagine was there. If I chose to, I could see all of them individually, yet they were all one. They were so beautiful and infinite; all God in Light manifestation. Love was all-pervasive— like breathing air. Everywhere. It was God. Beyond question. As anyone knows who’s had a direct experience with Reality, there are no doubts about it. It’s absolute knowing. The love is extraordinary. It’s impossible to put it in words or put a quantitative label on it.Shortly after that, I was in another level of heaven and walking golden paths that had form. I don’t know what part of heaven it was, but it was magnificent beyond imagination. I recall being filled with wonderment and thinking, “I didn’t know anything could be this beautiful!” Even the sounds of birds singing could break your heart with their sheer beauty. Everything moved through me. It wasn’t like walking up to something seemingly separate. I don’t know how to describe it. I remember thinking, “I wish mother could know where I am; I’m not only fine…I’m in this extraordinary place. She’d be so happy for me.” I didn’t lose the awareness of my mother back on earth at the beach. I understood without her knowing where I was that she’d be inconsolable— believing her daughter had just drowned. Suddenly I became aware there were “angels” next to me—three of them together, yet as one. They were translucent, radiating an inner white light. Reading my mind, they spoke inside me, “Do you want to go back?” Here I was in Heaven, coming from a life on earth that was very difficult. It was only caring about my mother that gave me a moment’s pause. I heard myself ask, “If I go back, could I later come back here?” They assured me, “Yes.” Unconvinced, I asked again, “Are you sure I can come back?” Once more, they responded, “Yes.” @msiaorg

Still doubtful, I asked a third time—and they guaranteed, “Yes. Although it will be a while and you’ll have a lot to do.” They didn’t force me to go back. They gave me an option. In that nanosecond when I trusted I’d be able to come back, I suddenly experienced being back in the ocean. It was the most miserable, heavy, drugged-like feeling—so familiar with the limitations of life on earth. That heavenly experience became a part of my psyche: Knowing that God exists. Fast-forward to my 20’s, going through all the experiences with so-called elite, worldly people…and then reading Siddhartha. I couldn’t help but consider, “I know God exists and we’re not limited to being on Earth…but why are we on Earth? Does life here have meaning?” I was processing all this with the awareness that regardless of people diligently trying, they didn’t seem to me to be fulfilled. The question became so prominent for me that I could hardly think of anything else. My reasoning, (however limited it might have been) was, “If life doesn’t have meaning, then nothing could mean anything. If it does have meaning, it seems as though knowing what the meaning is would be paramount.” Maybe that could lead me to something which could fill the vast emptiness I was feeling. As naïve as it might have been, in that Fall of 1969, I asked my fiancé if he would put his vast financial holdings in safe keeping for a year and travel around the world with me to see if we could find someone who knew the meaning of life. I had no ideas or suggestions. I didn’t know if any such person was out there. I didn’t know there were living masters. As though I was being lifted on an enormous wave—this had now become my entire focus. Although it was carrying me, I had no idea as to where or how. (Of course, it was all in preparation to meet J-R.) A week later, my fiancé responded. He didn’t say, “No.” Instead he replied, “I don’t think so.” The next morning, when he went to work, it was similar to an iron-like gate closing inside of me. I was finished with that life. I had no clue where to go, but I was being carried on the wave. I packed up my car and as I drove out of Chicago I called him New Day Herald 47

to let him know I was going back to my Miami home. I didn’t intend to be insensitive and abrupt, but I was in a flow that was all-consuming. I felt comparable to jumping off a cliff, reasoning, “If anything is left when I hit bottom, that will be real.” I didn’t consider if that kind of thinking was flawed, but it didn’t matter because that’s what was carrying me. Back in Miami, I had someone house-sitting for me while I was gone. This person had hired an itinerant young man to help him with his gardening business, and he’d invited this guy to come and stay with him in my house. So when I arrived at my home, there was a stranger there who looked a lot like Jesus could well have looked. I told this guy about my quest, and he suggested, “There’s somebody on a taped recording I think you’re going to want to hear.” I was wide open to anything new. So a couple of days later, I went to the address. It was nighttime and quite dark. The directions led me to a large cluster of grey-colored apartment buildings. The asphalt of the parking lot went right up to the buildings. There was no greenery, no trees. It looked like a prison without the walls. Over each entry doorway hung an exposed light bulb. To say this place was stark is a major understatement.

There I was, recently coming from incredible luxury. Yet somehow the starkness of the place didn’t faze me. I was now on a journey into what…I didn’t know. And I was filled with anticipation. I tapped on what seemed to be the right door… and someone opened it about two inches. It was as dark as a movie theater inside and they said, “Yeah?” I didn’t even have J-R’s name, so I asked, “Is this where a tape is being played?” The person opened the door to about 12 inches, so that I had to move sideways to get through. When I got inside, my eyes adjusted to the light. I could see people in a small living room, sitting in lotus positions with their backs against the wall. No one was in the middle of the room. There were only two chairs: one was a recliner with somebody sitting in it. The other was straight-backed, also with someone sitting in it. There was a lone audio cassette player in the middle of the room. Very little was said to me. Clearly, I had come in right at the moment when they were ready to start playing the tape. The only space left to sit against the wall was behind the back of the recliner, and I crawled under it.

“It was like I was being lifted on this wave, and the wave had now become my whole focus. It was carrying me but I didn’t know where or how—but of course it was all in preparation to meet J-R.”

48 New Day Herald

As the tape began to play, and on it I could hear chairs creaking, people coughing and sneezing, nearby car horns, and dogs barking outside. Back then, anyone who wanted to record J-R could bring their portable cassette recorder and put it near his feet. Every machine would pick up and amplify the whirring sounds from all the other tape recorders, and all these noises then merged on all the tapes. This was the only way to get a recording. Needless to say, it was quite difficult to understand what J-R was saying. Regardless, at that first seminar, an energy I’d never before experienced flooded through me. Something in me (that was me…but up until then never heard) said with great depth, resonance and surety, “I’m HOME.” It

was as though the voice permeated the very cells of my body. Later I heard the old adage: when the student is ready, the master appears. Meanwhile, I was vaguely aware that as the tape was playing, there were frequent taps on the door and someone would open it the same two inches, then 12 inches. Each time somebody would come in, go to a back room and leave shortly afterward. When the tape finished playing, everyone was quite friendly, telling me about John-Roger. It was all a bit of a blur to me because by then I was in a euphoric state, due to the energy I’d experienced. So many of us have heard J-R say through the years that he could say “ham-and-eggs” and it wouldn’t matter because it’s Spirit that’s doing it. That’s what happened to me.

“Here I had this big, two-story, Spanish house with just me and my dog. So I said, ‘Gosh, we can do it at my house,’ and that was the start of my home becoming like a center in Miami.”


New Day Herald 49

I went to two or three more tape seminars there, and later on I got a phone call that the meeting was going to be held somewhere else. We found out that people had been dealing drugs in the back room and that’s why they kept going in and out. Clearly we needed a new place to hold J-R’s “seminars”. I was living in a big two-story Spanish home with just my dog. So I happily volunteered, “We can hold them at my house.” That was the start of my home becoming like an MSIA center in Miami. A few months later, in March of 1970, we heard from J-R (who was a high school teacher) that he was going on spring break—and planned on coming to Miami to visit us. So I invited him to stay in my guest room, and we could continue to do seminars in my home. He not only accepted, but also offered to do what he called “Light Studies” with people, which were one-on-one private counselings. When J-R came to Miami, of course, I had a Light Study. The first thing J-R started talking about was a past lifetime I’d had. In my current lifetime, when I was three and a half years old I was placed in a boarding home for a few months. I was locked in a small linen closet. Even though my body was little, the linen closet wasn’t large enough for me to stretch out on the floor or stand up, because the bottom shelf was lower than my height. So I just sat there and curled up to sleep. Rama 1985

“When J-R came to town, I can’t even express the joy that we all felt. My home really was the center. Everyone knew where the key was. I’d leave my house and come home at night and all the lights would be on.”

50 New Day Herald

Although this was a frightening, bewildering experience at the time, it was also part of the “set-up” to be with The Traveler. Although I was alone in that dark closet without even a single toy, most of the time I was taken out of my body. I would be journeying through all sorts of dimensions…some quite beautiful. One, however, was not. I entered it in the “now” (not as though it was “past”). It was a lifetime where I was a grown male where I had unusual power and control over others. I subjected people to very harmful treatment. Although I was sickened and hated myself

for what I was doing, I was helplessly addicted and compelled to doing it. The level of selfloathing was almost unbearable. It was an awful experience. I would come back into the closet as a little girl, but with all of the terrible self-loathing as full-blown, mature adult male feelings. I knew I was that, but there was nothing I could do to change it from my three and a half year-old life. It was tremendously painful. Still in the closet, I’d also be taken out to places full of light. Then I’d come back to the closet—and I’d be pulled back again into the awful lifetime where I wished I didn’t exist. I definitely didn’t want to go. Months later two of my aunts rescued me, taking me away to their home. So fast-forward to meeting J-R, where in my first Light Study he started with, “There’s a lifetime we want to talk about.” He began describing who I was in that difficult lifetime that I experienced while in the closet. He

ca. 1970 J-R Seminar - Miami @msiaorg

New Day Herald 51

greet him. I wanted him to enter a warm, welcoming environment. When he arrived, I was upstairs on the balcony that overlooked the two-story, cathedral-ceilinged living room. He had on khaki pants that were a bit short, penny loafers with white socks, and an everyday cotton short-sleeved shirt. He appeared very selfassured and ordinary. Nothing special seemed to come from him, as one might imagine a holy man would likely exude. I didn’t have a specific sense of what he should be like, but whatever he wasn’t what I’d unconsciously anticipated. Rama and J-R ca. 1985 shared what had been going on, what I’d come to do in this lifetime now…and how that previous lifetime set up the karma for this life. I had never told anyone about my experiences of that other life. To have J-R discuss it with matter-of-fact specificity was simply amazing. And humbling. As time went on, whenever J-R came to town, I can’t do justice to the joy we all felt. My home really was the center. Everyone knew they were welcome and where the house key was. I’d leave home during the day and come at night to find all the lights on, music playing and the fireplace going. I’d walk in and people would wave, “Hi Rama,” and then go back to their conversations. I loved it because I felt like I was the privileged keeper of the Traveler’s home in Miami. We had a Friday night seminar for five straight years. If I was out of town visiting J-R in L.A., it didn’t matter. There was always a seminar. NDH: What was it like when you met J-R for the first time? Rama: People went to the airport to pick him up and I waited in my home in order to have soft music, a lit fireplace and candles glowing to 52 New Day Herald

A few days later, we’d held a couple of seminars and settled into a kind of routine. I’d been cooking meals for him and his assistant, I’d had my Light Study, and there were a lot of people coming in and out of my home. People simply wanted to be there in the energy, even if they didn’t have an appointment. Upstairs, I saw J-R during a break sitting on one of the beds in the guest room, reading. The door was open, so I tapped on the door frame to catch his attention. Looking up, he smiled, “Yeah?” Without knowing what I wanted to say, I asked, “Can I talk with you? “Sure,” patting the bed next to him, “Sit down.” As I did, he inquired, “What’s up?” I said, “Well, you’re not at all what I expected.” He grinned, “What were you expecting? Maybe someone like Jesus? If you were, you must have really been disappointed.” I felt so much appreciation for him. I replied, “Well, I don’t know, but you are different than what I anticipated. I feel like Alice in Wonderland and you’re like the White Rabbit. I keep trying to catch up with you—but you’re always ahead of me, just in sight while still moving on. You say things that are remarkable, which open my life,

my world, the way I think, the way I feel, and how I see things. Even though I think I’m absorbing what you’re saying…there’s always a whole other level which presents itself. It just keeps opening. So I’m keeping my eyes on you.” He laughed, “Let’s make a deal. Don’t believe anything I tell you. See if you can work any of it. And what you can work, use it. If you can’t use or work some of it, don’t worry about it. Maybe go back and visit it another time. See if you can use it then.” He continued, “I don’t want a bunch of blind followers around me. I want people who are sincerely awakening and want to experience the truth of their own being and their oneness with God. Those are the people I want around me.”


“So fast-forwarded to meeting J-R, and in my first Light Study, he says ‘Well, here’s the lifetime we want to talk about,’ and he starts describing who I was in that difficult lifetime. . . and how the previous lifetime set up the karma for this life. And I had never told anyone about my memories of that past life.”

J-R seminar Miami New Day Herald 53

“Then he said that my ministry was to glorify that which is God, that which is the Light, that which is the Sound. It wasn’t like a specific task.”

Rama Fox 1972 I said, “I can do that!” This “pact” was so freeing and encouraging for me. Yes, I know he’s said that probably thousands of times to many people throughout the intervening years—but back then it was the first time I’d ever heard anything so liberating. I loved him for it because he wanted for us to have an experience, not of him as this holy man, but of our own divine being and our oneness with God; and how God is everywhere… in everything. NDH: What was it like working as a volunteer with J-R and MSIA in the early days? Rama: Grace-filled and joyful. It was a blessing to be of service. When he would do seminars in my home he never acted superior or pontificated. He was sharing with such love. I would look around the room, witnessing hearts and eyes so adoringly, gratefully open …receiving what he was saying like fresh, clean rain on thirsty 54 New Day Herald

plants. Who wouldn’t want the privilege of being whatever small part of contributing to that? It was a blessing. There were countless ways to volunteer. Way back then schools took off for the summer, teachers included, unless there was some summer school. J-R loved to travel. During the summertime he’d take car trips to different places around the country. At the beginning of summer break in 1970, I was visiting him in Los Angeles. J-R was ready to go traveling the country for the summer and I asked him, “Is there anything I can do for you, J-R?” He replied, “I’ll think about it.” A little while later he returned with the bottom part of a shoebox filled with recorded but unmarked audio cassette tapes. Handing the box to me, “I don’t know what’s on these tapes. If you wouldn’t mind, you could listen to them and give me highlights of what’s on them.”

Of course, it was a joy for me to be able to do something for him. Back in Miami, the first one I heard started with, “If you would know the Secret of Soul Transcendence…” Every antenna in my consciousness snapped to attention. It continued, “…look only for the good, that is, the Divine, in people and things…and leave all the rest to God.” He talked about how the way we see others is a manifestation of our own consciousness that is being shown to us, and in reality everything is part of a vast cosmic orchestra and integral to the overall and harmonious playing of the whole. I listened—and knew that was my life lesson. I had no clue as to how whatever I perceived was a reflection of my consciousness. I didn’t know how it worked, but something inside of me, beyond my not-knowing, knew that it was true. Today, I have (in comparison to where I was) a great understanding of what this means. I incorporate it in my life by noticing where I have judgments, withholds, where I pretend to myself that I know what’s going on. Whether I’m seeing something as good or bad, it’s really about my judgments, value systems, lens and filters. As I’m willing to let go of those, then I’m opening up to whatever is part of God’s creation, willing to recognize and experience God, the Divine and myself in all things.

Regarding being a volunteer—here’s another example. Also in the shoebox there was another tape that had instantaneously profound impact on me. With the first word out of J-R’s mouth, I knew I was listening to Spirit talking. It was @msiaorg

sheer, off-the-cuff poetry. I listened, rewound and re-listened over and over. The beauty of it is was so great, so pure and uplifting that I had to write it down. I didn’t know what was coming—I just moved on what was in my heart. At that time, there was a woman attending seminars in Miami who was a gifted calligrapher. I got the idea to make a book out of the tape I just mentioned. Together she and I created illustrations, like a flying bird, a crown, or what might be symbolic of whatever would be written on a given page. When J-R next came to Miami, I hadn’t told him about it. At that point it wasn’t in book form yet—just a stack of art boards—each one planned to eventually be a different page of the completed book. I walked up to J-R with these in my hand and gave them to him without saying anything. He took the stack and began to read—carefully taking in each page. He knew it was his. As he looked, his eyes got pink and moist. Slowly looking up at me, he said in a sweetly tender voice, “This is my first book.” Although I was capable of good editing at the time, I hadn’t changed a single word. There was no need, for it was sheer poetry coming out of the Traveler consciousness. I’d only added the Forward. I named it (and it was published as) The Spiritual Promise. Not too long after, I got a phone call from someone in Australia. Back then, international calls were very expensive. When making any long-distance call, people used to be very timeconscious. Something like a ten minute call just within the U.S. was considered costly. Here was this guy calling from Australia to Miami! Somebody had sent him a copy of the book, which had moved him deeply. He had seemingly endless questions about J-R and MSIA. We were on the phone for an hour and a half. He was so thirsty for the Spirit. He was the man who started MSIA in Australia because of that book. How profound is it that J-R speaks poetry to a small room of people in the U.S. and it goes from there to touch so many souls in Australia?! Click to continue on p.58 New Day Herald 55


Awakening as the Christ

Radisson Plaza Hotel at Kalamazoo Center

August 20-21, 2016 Day 1 (Saturday) 10am-7pm Day 2 (Sunday) 9am-1:30pm Times are approximate.

Location: Radisson Plaza Hotel at Kalamazoo Center 100 W Michigan Ave, Kalamazoo, MI, 49007, US Hotel Contact: 1-800-395-7046 or 269-343-3333 Let hotel reservationist know you are with "PTS" Hotel Cost: $139 for single or double; $149 for triple and $159 for quad

Tuition: Regular $300 Prerequisites: Discourse subscribers, or SATs if 144 is complete Local Contact: Lorraine Andrew at 269-375-8346 PTS Registration contact: Danielle Peterson or 323-328-1958

Community events peek

This issue featuring:

The Blessing of Your Ministry Retreat Dalton, PA October 21-23, 2016 “The minister of love and Light and Sound must walk in the consciousness of purity, for we become the ambassadors of Light in the physical world. And those who are ministers and partners in your ministry are all equated with you in consciousness, so what you do as your ministry reflects upon the totality of all ministers of God”. —John-Roger, DSS Facilitated by Rev. Peter Bort & Rev. Elizabeth Frumin Tuition: $275-300, includes housing and meals Prerequisites: Active MSIA Minister in good standing. Active subscription to MSIA Discourses or SATs if 144 completed. Contact: Elizabeth Frumin: 610-667-8353

Worldwide PTS Email Classes

take place entirely through email and are offered free of charge. These classes bring people together worldwide to work the teachings of Soul Transcendence daily, for three weeks, in an intimate and supportive environment. Next class: Spiritual Exercises July 24, 2016 - August 13, 2016 (3 weeks) Andrea Oliver, facilitating To register: Click Here

To receive more information & dates for upcoming classes: Click Here

NDH: What were J-R’s teachings like in those early days? Were they any different from later on? Rama: The deepest teachings were being given from the very beginning and they never changed. J-R talked about how out of God comes all things and God loves all Its creation. Not one soul will be lost. If you would know the secret heart of even your worst enemy, you would only love them. Speak kind words and don’t gossip. Send the Light for the highest good, regardless of what you think is going on. It’s not about empowering whatever appears to be negative or condoning it. It’s about sending the Christed light so that any darkness can be lifted. He suggested considering the analogy of someone in a dark room who lights a single match—the darkness is instantly dispersed according to how bright the light is. Darkness always has to give way to the Light. Back then, I knew in my heart the teachings were priceless, but I didn’t know how to incorporate

them into my consciousness as I do now. And, of course, I’m still learning; absolutely still learning. When listening to recordings of his from the late 1960’s, early 1970’s, we can hear a young loving being in his thirties expounding timeless words of wisdom. He told us over and over that it wasn’t about him. He insisted it was the Spirit to which we were responding—the reason why we were feeling so much love was because Spirit was so present. The Traveler Consciousness is a kind of instrument for Spirit and it’s in every one of us— that’s what we were experiencing. 58 New Day Herald

He always said it wasn’t about him or his personality; that he was merely a vessel through which Spirit manifested. What the teachings are here for, the whole purpose, is for us to awaken to who we truly are—not as a belief system, but as a direct knowing of who we are, and how we are all one with God…that everything is God. And we don’t have to wait until we die to know this. That’s what was going on. Regardless of what he said, it was hard not make it be about J-R, personally, because he was touching all our hearts so profoundly. He had a remarkable quality that would enter a room…and love would be everywhere. Another example of what it was like being with him was a time when he was in Miami and we had a seminar scheduled for that evening. It was a beautiful balmy Miami day and some of us, including J-R, went sailing. If someone knows about sailing, they know that if a boat is heading into the wind, in order to get to a certain point, you have to do what is called “tacking.” This means having to head into the wind in such a way that the boat has to head left and then right, back and forth… continually adjusting for “on course, off course.” It can take a long time in comparison to having the wind coming from behind and pushing the boat straight ahead. Well, we had set out with the wind behind us, so we were zooming out into the ocean, focusing on the beautiful day, when one of us wondered aloud, “What time is it?” We were a long way from shore and the wind was coming off the shore, which meant we had to turn around and go into the wind, and it would take us much longer to get back. We would surely be late for the seminar and there’d be no one there to tell people where we were. What does J-R do? He says, “Wait a minute,” closes his eyes and the wind stops dead. The sails flatten, doing nothing. Then, off the stern (from the rear—the entirely opposite direction), the wind quickly and strongly picks up. That means the sail is where it’s perpendicular to the boat, pushing it straight in. We got to my house and the seminar well before it started. Just like that—yet another J-R-induced happening.

J-R, Rama & Larry King I witnessed many things like that. It was amusing in a way because many of us have shared with one another how, on the one hand, a part of our consciousness would ask, “who is this guy?” Yet another part of consciousness was so used to him doing this kind of stuff that we thought something like, “How cool…what’s next?” Meanwhile, he’s saying, “Do not look at it as me. It is Spirit.” Of course, he was the instrument through which all that was happening. So it was really easy to make it be about him. The generosity of what he did was simply incredible. He had a way of teaching that, for me, couldn’t have been better. He would talk from the Traveler Consciousness with a resonance evoking deep soul knowing, “This is true.” It was expansive, uniting, and uplifting. One would experience compassion and forgiveness of one’s self and others. My response back in what we refer to as “the early years” was to do what I could to help bring forward platforms from which J-R could share the teachings. I had been friends with Larry King, who was already a Miami media celebrity. He had his own local TV show, a column in the Miami Herald newspaper, as well as a nationally syndicated five-hours long nighttime radio talk show. @msiaorg

So when J-R initially was coming to town, I asked Larry if he would MC a Miami MSIA event, as well as have J-R on his radio show. Through the years, J-R was to be a guest on Larry’s radio show many times. I also arranged J-R’s first TV show appearance, which was on a local show hosted by Sally Jessy. She later became the highly popular host of the nationally syndicated Sally Jessy Raphael Show. I had no history in the area of promotion; nevertheless, it seemed Spirit made it easy for me to organize all these different things for J-R. I was also friends with Peter Max, who was the international, highly acclaimed “psychedelic pop” artist, whose work included the Beatles’ hit animated movie, Yellow Submarine. Everywhere you went there were Peter Max posters and artwork. When I asked Peter to create a poster for a Miami based MSIA public event I was spearheading, he unhesitatingly did so without charge. The event was at the Unity Center Auditorium on April 7, 1971. The poster includes the words, “A world exists where all eyes are open, All truths experienced. It is a world of Total Being, and it lives within … you. Come, and pay yourself a visit.” New Day Herald 59

A copy of the poster by Peter Max now hangs in the second floor hallway at 2101 Wilshire Blvd. in Santa Monica, CA across from John Morton’s office.

“People asked, ‘Could there be a place where some of us could live together as a community?’ So he started looking for a place—and that’s how what became known as the Purple Rose Ashram of the New Age (also known as ‘Prana’) came into being. Today it’s known as the historically preserved and beautiful Peace Awareness Labyrinth and Gardens.” 60 New Day Herald

NDH: How did you experience MSIA’s growth as an organization? Rama: It grew in response to our requests as participants. We’d ask, “J-R, could we have better sound quality tapes for our seminars? May we have discourses that aren’t mimeographed, that could be smaller and easier to read? Could we have videos so we could see you, as well as hear?” This required continually upgrading office and media machines. Requests reached a stage where there was a three-year waiting list to have a Light Study with J-R. So we asked, “Is it possible for you to charge more for your services and quit being a school teacher so we can have more of your time?” Back then he charged only $35 for a Light Study, saying he’d do it for nothing, but he knew that people valued more what they paid for.

But we were asking to pay more, knowing he had to eat, pay a mortgage, etc. If he quit being a schoolteacher to spend more time with us, he’d still have to pay expenses—which included expensive things such as airfare to visit MSIA people out of the L.A. area, etc.

NDH: Mine is like that, too—“Just stay open, the Light will shine through you; the Light will do the work.” It’s like there’s nothing to do, just stay open.

People asked, “Could there be a place where some of us could live together as a community?” So he started looking for a place—and that’s how what became known as the Purple Rose Ashram of the New Age (also known as “Prana”) came into being. Today it’s known as the historically preserved and beautiful Peace Awareness Labyrinth and Gardens.

NDH: Exactly the same. Simple and to the point.

What J-R would also do is observe and model things such as personal growth trainings— transforming them into experiential events that would evoke the heart, forgiveness and deepening self-awareness. They were (and still are) wonderful vehicles for awakening. For instance, the PATs, the University of Santa Monica (initially known as Koh-e-nor University, referring to the Mountain of Light) and Insight. J-R said he never wanted to create a business. Nevertheless, his love was so great that he was willing to give us what we asked for, when he could. He was always monitoring everything so that it was as clean and balanced as possible. NDH: How do you see your ministry? Rama: When I had my Ministerial Ordination (which J-R gave me in 1972), it contained a Blessing—that Spirit was giving me the discernment to know the difference between illusion and God. At the time, I didn’t understand how huge that was. Additionally he said that my ministry was to glorify That which is God, That which is The Light, That which is The Sound. It didn’t refer to a specific task or talent as I understood it. Other people ordained right after me were receiving Blessings stating specific things, such as, “Yours is a blessing of healing” or “yours is a blessing of music.” I felt like everyone else had these great ministries…but I was a kind of nobody, with nothing specific to give. @msiaorg

Rama: Did you also have the sense of yours not being a big, significant thing?

Rama: With the unfolding of time, I’ve come to recognize a great clue within the Ordination. They all state “regardless of race, creed, color, situation, circumstance or environment.” Part of what this indicates to me is: as we awaken, we come to recognize more and more that everything/ everyone is God…that The Divine resides in all… and as ministers of MSIA, we are blessed to be conduits of Light without reservation. For me, this means regardless of how anything or anyone may appear—we are charged to send the Light For the highest good. The Light blesses and transforms ALL things to higher frequencies. And, as many of us experience, when we send The Light…we receive it, as well. On J-R’s out-of-town visits, after he would do seminars and Light Studies, he’d take a car trip to relatively nearby areas. As so many of us have experienced in the subsequent years, a great aspect of J-R’s ministry was to visit places, bringing the Light, lifting karma and placing Light Columns. In the early 1970’s he began to physically spread this activity across the planet. My first venture abroad with him was in 1975 on a six-week long trip to India. NDH: Will you describe your experience of some of his methods of teaching? Rama: J-R never pretended he was “perfect” every minute of the day. He allowed both his humanity and the Traveler consciousness to manifest. This made it so much easier when we could relate to him being human and imperfect. Therefore, it wasn’t entirely remote that we, too, could reach into the Traveler Consciousness, because we certainly weren’t perfect. In my view, if he’d appeared “perfect,” it would’ve seemed nearly impossible for us to hope to reach our higher being. New Day Herald 61

I also became exceedingly grateful that he wouldn’t say, “Okay, kids, in this moment I’m manifesting the Traveler Consciousness. Now watch my consciousness shift as I manifest the illusion of human consciousness.” He told us how to recognize the Traveler Consciousness, but he didn’t let us know when he was going to enact either one. Therefore it was our responsibility to determine the difference. How masterful is that!? For me, that was incredible. I witnessed, through my many years, a number of individuals not getting what he was demonstrating. It seemed to me as though they would do the “eitheror” kind of thinking—either J-R is The Mystical Traveler or if he acts human that invalidates his being a spiritual master. They didn’t understand what was being done and that he was saying. “It’s up to you. You learn how to do it. Don’t count on me doing it for you … because the power is in finding it in yourself.” That’s remarkable to me. I don’t even know how to quantify the mastery of that kind of teaching.

J-R was sitting in the passenger seat. Seemingly out of nowhere, he mentioned the name of someone who was doing a great job of helping me set up MSIA appointments. However, when J-R mentioned this person, he surprisingly stated, “I wouldn’t trust them if I were you.” Well, there I was, thinking “this is not at all an example of speaking kind words. It seems gossipy and hypocritical. And what does he say about me behind my back?” Regardless of what I was quietly thinking, I heard coming out of my mouth, “Yes, J-R, I understand what you’re looking at.” Well, that wasn’t at all true—and I felt repulsed that my compulsion for J-R’s approval superseded what my heart knew. With that, J-R looked at me with a long, intense look, saying nothing. Then he looked away. There was silence in the car, I felt just awful about myself—and silently angry at him for doing it.

Shortly thereafter he went back to L.A., and I was left dealing with that deeply disturbing experience that I didn’t dare admit to him. I knew without question he was my teacher—what was the NDH: It sounds like he taught by example rather than question was how to handle inside of me what just just through words. happened. It took at least a month before it slowly dawned on me that he could have said directly Rama: Definitely. An example of this was a time he to me, “Rama, too often you sacrifice the truth and I were alone on a short trip. I was driving and

April 1972 J-R travels - Miami (?) - Rama in lavender 62 New Day Herald

of what you know in order to please others. You avoid taking responsibility for what you know in your heart to be true. This gets in the way of you experiencing your own grace, strength and the validity of your own soul.” Had he bluntly stated that, I would have been defensive, felt hurt and misunderstood. I would have blocked it out mentally and likely felt overwhelmed. Knowing me, the best thing he could have done was to come around the back door, give me the experience, and let me figure it out for myself. Wow! It was right on. My karma included attempting to please and be accepted by others so much that I’d often surrender my own highest good. It wasn’t as though I intentionally was a liar, it was that I was just trying so much to fit in, to be accepted. And all that did was further convince me that I had to keep doing it or I’d be rejected. God bless me, I was doing the best I knew how. I understood that how J-R approached helping me was an extraordinary expression of caring on his part, as well as a deeply empowering teaching. NDH: And what’s amazing to me is that the teaching on the outer is such a small fraction of what goes on in the inner. Rama: How true. In the second of my seven Light Studies, J-R told me, “You’re not known in the inner realms for doing your spiritual exercises.” The surety of how he said it let me know he knew. Now, how would he know that—because I certainly hadn’t admitted it to anyone? That was a wake-up to another depth of what J-R knew. So I sat myself down and I did the HU. I chanted it inwardly until there was nothing but the HU. Then I got the inner direction to bring the chant all around me. That’s when the cosmic Sound Current kicked in. My experience was that chanting the HU is like a tuning fork. When one hits the tuning fork, it doesn’t sound like what a corresponding piano or guitar, etc., sounds like. But it attunes the individual to the actual tone, regardless of the instrument. That’s the closest thing that I can liken it to…and it’s the voice of God. No question. @msiaorg

Sometime later, while visiting J-R in Los Angeles, we were on our way to a seminar. Michael Sun was driving and J-R was, as always, sitting in the passenger seat. A few of us were sitting in the back…with me sitting behind J-R. I happily shared, “J-R, I heard The Sound Current.” Turning around to face me, he smiled, saying, “You know, not everyone gets to hear it like you have. I’m glad you heard it because now you know it’s real and you’ll always have that.” Then, with a twinkle in his eyes that only I could see, he dropped what seemed like a bombshell, “I’ve been thinking of doing something else besides MSIA. I’ve been offered a lot of money to do consulting for a large company.” Conversation in the car went dead quiet and I saw Michael’s hands tightened on the wheel. That moment was perfect timing, such that Michael missed the freeway exit for the seminar. J-R turned to Michael and said in a voice sounding very displeased, “I only ask you to drive the car. I don’t ask you to do anything else but just drive the car. Do I have to do everything myself?” The knuckles on Michael’s clinched hands got whiter, his shoulders hunched down, his aura shrunk and the guys next to me started talking just to fill the awkward space. I sat there realizing I wasn’t witnessing this just by accident;

“I sat there realizing I wasn’t witnessing this just by accident; I was being given a teaching. All of us were, each in our own way.” I was being given a teaching. All of us were, each in our own way. After Michael turned the car around and we were back on track, J-R turned to him and gently sighed, “Michael, when are you going to learn not to react to what I do or say— and hold in your own strength?” I witnessed many events like this throughout the years. To me, they were eloquent, amazingly profound lessons, demonstrating what he had been saying all along. It’s about a person taking responsibility for their own awakening. We New Day Herald 63

each have to reach for our own inheritance of awakening, ourselves. That’s where the power is. One of the things that J-R made clear many times was that some of us will not have visions or extraordinary inner experiences because it’s a necessary part that person’s journey to attune to an inner knowing. For someone like me, I don’t know why I’ve had the experiences like when I was three and a half years old and in the closet, or when I drowned or when I heard the Sound Current. I know with all of my heart that these had nothing to do with me being “special.” For whatever reason, they were all a necessary parts of my journey —possibly because I was one of many chosen to share such things with others. I don’t know the purpose of the experiences I’ve had, other than I can vouch from my own personal experiences so much of what J-R has shared. As we sit here, David, I’m getting that it’s okay to tell you an experience I had on the great Outer Realms. This was soon after my Soul initiation. I was meditating (which I had learned to love). I found myself in a formless space and suspended before me, with no visual support, was an enormous, glowing, gold curved sword blade. It appeared to be about 24 inches at its deepest part and about 15 feet long, narrowing to a point at each end. It didn’t have a handle at either end! It radiated an energetic field of being so sharp that anything touching it would be instantly shredded. It was The Sword of Judgment. The clear message I heard was, “He who wields the Sword of Judgment is the one who receives the greatest harm because it has no handle; no safe means of using it. Understand…and wield not.” It was magnificent in its divinely manifest beauty. When I asked J-R for verification (which I always did regarding such experiences), he confirmed that was what it was. A couple of months after seeing The Sword of Judgment, also during meditation, there spontaneously appeared in space before me a colossal “Purple Rose, which also resembled a lotus flower. J-R had spoken of it throughout the years. Each elliptical shaped petal was made of living purple Light—in which all shades of purple exist, from deepest magenta to ultra-violet. On the 64 New Day Herald

perimeter of each petal, the lights were ultra-vivid, electrifying purple…and in motion. Some moving in one direction (like clockwise), some in another (like counter-clockwise). They were all connected in the center, which radiated diamond-white brilliance. Each ellipse was an actual universe. The center was where infinity/the eternal now/ all oneness/all being is undiluted. Deep within the Center resides the “seat” of the Preceptor. The Traveler moves in and through all the universes. The knowledge and recognition of this was given to me by direct knowing. My palms are sweating right now as I’m sharing this with you, David. To review these things brings forward the energy of the experiences. Of course, I wrote J-R and he verified that my interpretation was accurate. He said, “Very few people see this.” Other than J-R, I spoke to no one about it—it was too sacred. Decades later it came up in my consciousness to ask if it was time to share about it. And J-R gave me permission to write about it and (after he checked it out, giving the article his OK) had Betsy Alexander submit it to the New Day Herald. The article goes into greater detail. At one of the last MSIA conferences J-R attended, during the Ministers’ Meeting, I had another “Preceptor experience.” I was never picked to sit in the front row and I’m not one of the people who run in to grab a seat close up. I just come in and sit. To my bewildered surprise, someone told me, “We’ve got a reserved seat for you in the front row.” J-R came on the stage and sat in a chair off to the side, right smack in front of me. He didn’t say a word the whole time he sat there with his head down, eyes closed. From my close vantage point, I started noticing a sort of movement with J-R. It wasn’t as though he turned into something else, but I could tell there was some sort of energy subtly moving his form. I asked inwardly, “What am I seeing?” It somehow became clear that the Preceptor had come and taken over J-R’s entire body, manifesting for all to see, if they chose. I perceived it as an inverted pyramid—such that the tip of a vast consciousness was funneling into J-R’s physical form. I wrote him about that and, again, he verified what I saw.

NDH: What’s your sense of what the future holds for you on your spiritual journey and your journey on this planet? Rama: My spiritual journey is for certain—such that in following the Traveler I KNOW beyond all questioning I am lined up to the highest/the all… and that for me love is the master key. As for my journey on the physical planet…I don’t know what it holds. We all know life presents “options” that teach us. I can share with you what I discovered is an effective guide toward the goals of my heart while moving through life here. And it works great when I remember to use it. I find that every one of us has inside the gift of a special sort of “compass.” Whether or not we use it is up to each of us, individually. For instance, in this physical universe, what mankind had dubbed “the North Star” holds a constant position and has been used for millennia by global travelers to set their courses. So, if the North Star, itself, was our ultimate destination…and we were journeying toward it, we might not always know if we were drifting “off” or “on” course until it became undesirably obvious. Utilizing our inner compass helps to determine the choices we make, the courses we set intentionally or not. It doesn’t tell us “yes” or “no,” nor does it say, “Do this” or “don’t do that.” But it definitely is a fail-safe guidance system when we know how and choose to use it. For instance, I may believe something is absolutely true and I may be experiencing righteous belief regarding how I wish to or “should” act upon it. I may feel completely accurate in my perceptions and whatever action seems appropriate. However, if I align it with the inner compass, I will receive the indication as to whether my choice leads to the goal of my heart by determining, “Is this (action/belief/feeling) bringing me closer to loving—which would be moving more toward the North Star—or further away from it? Closer to oneness—or more toward separation? More joy—or less joy? More peace— or less peace?” The answer comes from within.

“. . . then he would say things like, ‘speak kind words, don’t gossip, send the light for the highest good, regardless of what you think is going on.’ It’s not about empowering whatever appears to be negative or condoning it. It’s about sending the Christed light so that the darkness can be lifted.”

The Inner Master holds what I varyingly refer to as “the golden compass, the inner compass or the @msiaorg

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“The words heard within may be different, like it may not indicate ‘more loving’ or ‘less loving’—it might suggest determining if it leads to ‘greater oneness or less oneness?’ Or something similar. The Inner Master will bring forward the words. Just listen.”

GPS of the Soul.” It’s fail-safe. I’ve never asked a question like that where I didn’t get the guidance. Now, it could be that the action that I was going to enter into might be fine, but it was the attitude with which I was attempting it that was steering me away from the loving, or Spirit. If I want to do an action, hold a belief or perpetuate a feeling, it’s up to me to determine how it can then move me even more in line with the North Star of my being. It’s not about being right or wrong, loving or not loving, because love is infinite…there’s always more of it. There’s always greater oneness. It’s about moving closer to or away from. For me, this “compass” is an extraordinary treasure and gift. All of us have it, whether we’ve noticed it or not. It’s part of our inheritance as a soul. The words heard within may be different, like it may not indicate “more loving” or “less loving”—it might suggest determining if it leads to “greater oneness or less oneness?” Or something similar. The Inner Master will bring forward the words. Just listen. It’ll be about “more or less, or “closer to or further from” one’s true heart. It’s typically the qualities of more loving or less loving, oneness or separation, peace or less peace, joy or less joy, etc.

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The space industry reports that when they launched ships to the moon, they were off course about 90 percent of the time. Getting there was simply a matter of continual course correction. Just like our journeys. NDH: Is there anything else that comes to mind as we come to the end of this interview? Rama: Thank you, David, for affording me the blessing of sharing some of my experiences with our beloved J-R. Throughout the years, so many of us in MSIA have had the privilege and blessing of knowing him to be a remarkably beautiful human being, who has given his entire life to be our wayshower. His life was a living example of what he taught. Although he is no longer with us physically, he seems to be all the more present with us inwardly. And he has wisely and lovingly turned over the mantle of the Traveler consciousness to John Morton, who is, himself, a shining example of being both human and an extraordinarily wise, loving and humble master.

“. . . the compass simply says, ‘Is this bringing me closer to loving, which would be from the North Star, or away from it? Closer to oneness or towards separation? More joy or less joy? More peace or less peace?’ The inner master is within and the inner master is what I call the golden compass, the GPS of the soul.”

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Walk in Peace I love you. God bless you. Peace, be still.

“I join you in claiming our spiritual heritage of peace and loving.” — John-Roger, D S S, IIWP Founder

Join us for the next round of the Worldwide Peace Prayer

IIWP WORLDWIDE PEACE PRAYER September 12, 2016 - October 21, 2016

Joan Shea, facilitating for English


for Spanish

IIWP Peacemaker Meetings - 2016:

Argentina Amaicha del Valle, Tucuman

Sunday, July 31 (Time TBD) Info: Cristina Rivero:

Africa To support the UN September Peace Day we are holding Peacemakers meetings in:

Port Harcourt, Nigeria

Sunday, September 25th from 12-3pm Info: Prince Iwuoha:

Hotel De Texas in Kumasi, Ghana Saturday September 29th from 6:30 – 8pm Info: Prince Iwuoha:

Questions: or Sponsored by the Institute for Individual and World Peace

An Interview with Ishwar Puri is the initiate of his beloved Master Hazur Baba Sawan Singh Ji and founder of Institute for the Study of Human Awareness (ISHA) in Chicago. He is a former senior official with Indian government, a graduate of Harvard University, and is teaching spirituality in America, as requested by his Sant Satguru, Hazur Maharaj Baba Sawan Singh Ji.

[Division] has been created so we can experience the separation that comes from the fact that you and I look different, we all look different‌ but it’s only for an experience. The truth is we have always been one.

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Ishwar Puri Interviewed


Leigh Taylor-Young

To watch the video of the interview click here:

Leigh Taylor-Young Morton: The first thing I’d like to begin with is it’s obvious that you and I are in the presence of friends and family, so before we begin, I consider this a sacred moment to be with you and share with you. I just want to tell you before we start that I love you, and that I know you somehow, and that I’m very honored to recognize a friendship in the Spirit, and that you are many, many things from what I’ve read and witnessed in your seminars. And surely one of the most important now is you’re a spiritual teacher uplifting people into their soul and into their soul awareness— and if these aren’t the correct words I want you to correct me. I would be very grateful if you would begin our sharing with a prayer that might also bring forward your Master’s presence. Ishwar Puri: I’m very happy to meet you Leigh, and to meet everybody who is present here. It is a delight to come and visit this place and to feel that we are all part of a family. I don’t feel that I’m coming to a new strange place. I feel that I’m in the midst of people I’ve already known; I felt that I already knew each one that I’ve met. That’s a great experience. I @msiaorg



think that the spiritual teachings with which I am associated create this feeling that there are no “others” —they are all our own. When you come and meet seekers of the same path and the same truth, you feel very close to them. That’s how I feel and I’m very happy about it. My prayer for everybody present here is that we, all together, work towards our goal of reaching our true home, and understand that this division of ours, this separation of ours, is merely for an experience; it’s not reality. It has been created so we can experience the separation that comes from the fact that you and I look different, we all look different… but it’s only for an experience. The truth is we have always been one. That is, if you go to the source, you come to realize that we are one. But it is not enough to say we are one, it’s necessary to feel we are one. I feel that the best way to do that is to go within yourself and see who you really are. When you find that, you will find we are really all one. My prayer is that we go toward that oneness through prayer and through meditation. That’s my prayer for everybody. New Day Herald 71

If you go to the source, you come to realize that we are one. But it is not enough to say we are one, it’s necessary to feel we are one.

If you can get the radiant form of a Master while he’s alive in his physical body, you are able to then go on with the rest of the journey with him internally, and he is never away.

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able to meditate enough while the physical form of a Master is alive, so that before he passes on, you get his radiant form inside. That is enough meditation. You don’t have to meditate to go all the way to your true home. If you can get the radiant form of a Master while he’s alive in his physical body, you are able to then go on with the rest of the journey with him internally, and Leigh: Thank you. Thank you. Your he is never away. When you get that stage of having the radiant life is so rich, and one of the things form of your Master inside, you that fascinated me was that you will see him inside and outside. were initiated by Sawan Singh It’s an amazing experience when you were nine years old. Is that when you have that, you that correct? are able to drive a car and you Ishwar Puri: Yes. I was almost nine find that he’s sitting next to you. You’re walking; he’s years old. The date, I remember, was the 9th of March, 1937. That’s walking with you— physically, externally and internally. the date when I was initiated. That’s a great experience. When I meet my friends here, most of them were not even born For a person who gets initiated by at that time. a Perfect Living Master like Hazur Baba Sawan Singh, there is no This has been a long association death of the Master, because he’s with my master. One good thing still there. He’s not only there in that happened was that this process that he taught me of how Spirit or in some presence; he is there physically visible if you have to develop a relationship with established a contact with him in my inside, and the inside master, enabled the Master to be with me the radiant form. That is why I’ve never been alone. That’s a great at all times. experience. That is, I think, one of the requirements of our system of Leigh: That’s a great experience. I’m meditation—that you should be shifting from where I thought I was

If you have an experience of dying while living,

going. In one of your seminars, you shared so eloquently about not only the passing of your son, but also the passing of your father. You described, especially in the passing of your father, as well as your life experience of your son, how the whole family immediately went into celebration rather than grief. Would speak a bit more about that? Ishwar Puri: That is true. My father was an initiate of the same Master, and he had done some work. He was a regular meditator. In fact, he meditated more seriously than I ever did in the sense that in the early morning he would take a cold shower, to make sure that he wouldn’t fall asleep during meditation. He took it seriously and had some wonderful experiences. In our family, we knew that he was a leader in this area and other people followed him. The rest of the family became initiates of Baba Sawan Singh afterwards. When he died, I knew that the great Master Baba Sawan Singh had told us that he was, in a past life, a tree. From a tree, he had been able to jump over the evolution to a different species, directly into a human being because he was the tree under which a Perfect Living Master

sat and broke a twig to use as a toothbrush, which is common in India. This one event, a physical event, can change your destiny. He always knew that, and he used to hit his head and say, “I think it’s wooden still.” When he died, I was curious to know where he was because one of my uncles used to say, “He could have reached halfway to the universal mind.” which we call Trimurti, or the causal plane. I said, “Maybe he’s gone further, but I don’t know. I’ll check with my Master.” I was driving down to Delhi where I had a meeting, and on the way I checked up through meditation. My master said, “You can’t see him.” I said, “Why not?” He said, “Because the moment he passed from his physical body, he merged completely with me and he is in the same place where I am, where totality is.” That was a great experience. I said, “Did he meditate so much?” He said, “No. It’s not meditation that takes you beyond a certain point, it’s love and devotion.” So the real secret of the spiritual path as I understood it (and I still have been able to maintain that experience) is that you cannot go beyond the regions of the mind except with love and devotion. If you want to ask, in a nutshell, what

is the spiritual path taught by Baba Sawan Singh, it is that love and devotion is the key. And that’s what I learned from my father too. Leigh: What you all did, realizing where he was, there was no grieving, it was a celebration. Ishwar Puri: There was no grieving. When I informed my mother this happened, she celebrated. My brother was in the Navy and she called him and said, “Great, you know your dad has reached the ultimate,” and he celebrated on the boat. People came to grieve with us in our house, but they were surprised that we were celebrating something. They thought that maybe the whole family had gone crazy. If you have an experience of dying while living, you’re never afraid of death; it becomes something very different. Just because we don’t know what happens after death, we grieve, and therefore, we are afraid. Most of the insecurity in our life is fear of death, fear of the unknown. If you have had that experience of dying while living, that means experiencing that while you’re still alive in the physical body. So you have no fear at all. You become totally

you’re never afraid of death; it becomes something very different. @msiaorg

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If you have had that experience of dying while living, that means experiencing that while you’re still alive in the physical body. . .You become totally fearless. . . When you see so many people afraid of so many things, then you suddenly find that there is a way to be fearless, and this is one of those ways.

fearless. That’s a great experience, too, in this world. When you see so many people afraid of so many things, then you suddenly find that there is a way to be fearless, and this is one of those ways. Leigh: I love that—fearless. Ishwar Puri: Fearless and without doubt. Otherwise, our mind is, I think, indoctrinated to create fear and doubt. First, it creates doubt. “What can happen? It can be this or that.” Then that doubt leads to fear because we become uncertain. We don’t know what’s going to happen so it becomes the fear of the unknown. That is why we are all insecure—the lack of that awareness of what is going to happen. Once you see what the reality is, you get a certainty that you can’t get any other way. You can have logic and you can discuss things and still be left with doubt, but if you have an experience inside it gives you certainty. Leigh: When you use the term “Perfect Living Master” would that be equal to Satguru? Is it the same meaning? Ishwar Puri: Yes. Satguru means a guru who is true. “Sat” means true. A true master is one who has achieved something that is

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true, and what is true is what is beyond the mind. If you are truly aware of the spirit, if you’re truly aware of what we might call our soul in distinction to the mind, then that would be a Satguru or a Perfect Living Master. We call him perfect because the mind creates division and separation, which create imperfection. When you see totality, it is perfect. That is why a human being who has attained that awareness of totality is a perfect person, and he’s perfect because he has seen totality. When he shares that with us, he is a Perfect Living Master, he is a human being living like us, and yet he has that perfection. The difficulty arises when we find that we are dealing with a human being and not with somebody higher up. This question has been asked of me several times. “If the truth is inside us, and we all say go within to find the truth, and the kingdom of God is within you, then why do we need an intermediary? Why do you need a human being outside of yourself to find something that lies inside you?” The truth is that the human being I’m talking of, who I call a Perfect Living Master, knows my inside better than I know it and because he is not working from outside (since that’s a reflection we have created) he’s actually inside us. When you come across

such a person in life, he’s actually inside us and he’s helping us from inside. We don’t see him inside, therefore he appears outside. That is why there’s a very close connection with a person who has that awareness.

Even when he’s talking with a human being, his awareness is at all levels of creation, all levels of consciousness, and that’s a very big difference. Even as a seeker, as a disciple, we can have some progress in our spiritual Moreover, there are several Masters experiences and go, say, to the astral plane. The astral plane is who have attained a certain level nothing but our own sensory of experience which is higher system that operates if we than the physical experience, but don’t have the physical body. they can only take you up to that. You forget your physical body, The higher limitation is that they cannot have the experience all the become unaware of it, and you are automatically in the astral time with them. They can go to a higher level, have that experience, plane. The sense perceptions still work, they become sharper come down, be the physical experience, and explain what they than they are in the physical saw (if they can retain the memory body. The sense perceptions, by themselves, are the astral of that experience). But a Perfect body. It’s not a body, it’s just Living Master does not have to the perceptions still working be remembering something that together, and they take the same he saw; he is in that state all the form as if we are in a similar body. time, 24-7.

Once you transcend that, you go to the causal plane where your mind itself becomes your body. The causal body is your mind, the astral body is your sense perceptions, and your physical body incorporates these inside you. What makes all these three alive is your soul, your consciousness. If you’re not conscious they all die. The consciousness, which is your soul or your real form, makes these alive. Most people, when they go into these experiences, they go to one experience at one time. This physical world is a reality right now. We’re sitting talking, and this is our reality. There’s no other reality at all; you can be imagining the other things, and we can talk about other things. But when we go into that state of awareness

It’s not meditation that takes you beyond a certain point, it’s love and devotion.


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A human being who has attained that awareness of totality is a perfect person. . . When he shares that with us, he is a Perfect Living Master, he is a human being living like us, and yet he has that perfection.

The others were trying to hold you back and became cults. This was never a cult, and it was so open.

that becomes the only reality. This reality becomes like a dream, and that reality is real. When we get back to this, that looks like a dream and this becomes real. The same thing happens at the causal level, but if you reach the totality at the top, all of the levels look like dreams and all of them look real. Leigh: When you talk about the top, the totality, would that be what we might say is the heart of God, the creator?

Ishwar Puri: I could call it the God, the creation of God, I would call that the source of the word, the source of shabd, the source of the sound current, the source of the very stream of consciousness that descends right into every level of experience including where we are now. That is never interrupted.

Leigh: The Perfect Living Master is one who can take you to the totality because that’s where they’re sourced. Is that correct? Ishwar Puri: Absolutely, that’s correct. Leigh: And they’re rare? Ishwar Puri: They are very rare. There are a lot of teachers who can take you to different levels of experiences. Most of them today, and there are hundreds, maybe

thousands of them, are practicing different kinds of yogas and they get unusual experiences by taking your attention to the different energy centers below the eyes. They do not improve your awareness, they do not change your realities, they bring you a different experience in this reality.

If I find something better, I’ll take it and I’ll go 76 New Day Herald

This physical body, as you know, has a division at the eye level. Below the eyes are centers of energy which sustain all of our energetic experiences, but the awareness is behind and above the eyes. There are very few masters who work at that level. Those who go beyond the mind, where your effort cannot do anything because it’s all mental, and where meditation cannot work because that’s also an effort— those are very rare. They draw you, pull you, through the power of love. That’s what it is. You can’t struggle to go there. I sometimes compare the masters by using the metaphor of motorcars. There is a four-wheeldrive; there is a car that is rearwheel-drive, where the engine pushes the car; and then there is a front-wheel-drive where the wheels pull the car. It’s a push and pull. Meditation, as we know it, is a push, rear-wheel-drive. Being pulled by love inside is like being pulled in a front-wheel-drive. So the Perfect Living Masters are front-wheel-drive vehicles. Leigh: When you were initiated at nine, were you initiated with the five names of God? Ishwar Puri: Yes, I was. I was initiated with the same names that my Master said he was

initiated into by his own master, Baba Jaimal Singh. He was very open about it. At the beginning of the decision process he said, “What I am going to give you is what I have received from my master. It has worked for me; I hope it will work for you. If it doesn’t, go and search for more. You are free. Don’t come back to me to get my permission. You are free to go and search anywhere for something better, but do me one favor. If you find something better, come and tell me, and I will also go and take it.” This openness of this path is what struck me as something unusual.

Leigh: This is so wonderful because I know you know that a number of us here are involved with a Master, John-Roger, and also John Morton, and we are based very similarly on the five names of God, except we’re not given them all at once. We’re given them as we get progressively initiated in each level. And the sound current is the core. Would you speak to us a bit about what we call Soul Transcendence—the soul, the consciousness of soul, and the audible life stream?

Ishwar Puri: Those are wonderful words. The meaning is the same. There is no difference at all. About getting the initiation in stages, The others were trying to hold the great Master also used to give you back and became cults. This the initiations in two stages for was never a cult, and it was so young people, and for small kids, open. “Here is something for you like myself. I was taken for a half to practice. If it works, very good. initiation. He would give to small If it doesn’t work, find something kids the method of listening to better.” I took it so seriously that the sound first. He was giving I actually investigated every kind that kind of initiation even to kids of yoga and every possibility five, six, seven years old, and I saw of doing other things so that that. I was not the youngest to get I could be able to tell him, “I initiation, but I was the youngest found something better,” but get a full initiation. He would give I didn’t. I tried for eight years them the method of listening very seriously, and I couldn’t to the sound within, and when find anything better. Until today they grew up, after practicing, he I haven’t. If I find something would give them the five names better, I’ll take it and I’ll go back to repeat. to a Master and say, “I have Those who were already found it; you take it also.” It’s teenagers, he would sometimes such an open thing. give them half initiation by giving

back to a Master and say, “I have found it; you take it also.” It’s such an open thing. @msiaorg

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them the five words to repeat, and later on teach them how to listen to the sound current. I don’t know if that practice is being followed by other masters or not, but he did do that division into two.

The way these Perfect Living Masters contain that is by their humility. They are so humble, they never say they are Masters, they claim to be ordinary people.

Leigh: I love what you said about the openness. Do you think there was a challenge for a true living Master like Sawan Singh in possibly becoming an icon or something adored and worshiped, because of the pull of his power and the love? Was it a challenge for others to not become attached in that way? I think it’s a challenge when someone is so amazing, to make sure that your connection is from the right and not from blind faith. Ishwar Puri: I understand your point. The way these Perfect Living Masters contain that is by their humility. They are so humble, they never say they are Masters, they claim to be ordinary people. They associate with people like ordinary persons, like any other human beings. That way they hide themselves and they do not allow that kind of adoration that would come if they sat on a pedestal and said, “We are the higher-ups.” They never do that. That’s one of the keys to understand. If he is a Perfect Living Master he will never say, “I am a Master, I can do all these things.” That’s sort of a disqualification because that’s

where you find people running after them and putting them in a state which will be a challenge for them. They meet the challenge with utter humility. Leigh: Also, it seems to me that the Perfect Living Master is always turning you within so that you’re not holding the attachment externally, so that it’s for you to become as he is. Ishwar Puri: The difficulty with this problem of attachment is that you cannot fight attachment. The more you try to fight attachment the more you get attached. I was talking to you about my fondness for pizza. Supposing I say, “I am attached to pizza. I’m not going to be attached anymore,” and I said, “No pizza, no pizza,” pizza will remain in front of me forever. In fact, there is an interesting story of an American seeker who traveled to India because he found that in the Himalayan Mountains lived a swami who gave some magical words to repeat and you could get enlightened. He said, “That’s a good shortcut,” because you know Americans like instant knowledge, and he said, “That will be great to get some words and get instant knowledge.” He had to travel all the way by bus and go into the mountains. Ultimately, he reached

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that place and found the swami inside a cave. He waited, the swami came out, and he said, “I have come from

say abracadabra, don’t think of bananas.” The man tried all his life. Every time he said “abracadabra,” bananas were in front of him.

attachment will be pulled away. When you get attached to that unconditional love of a Master, those other attachments go away and become detached. Leigh: Oh, very good. Ishwar Puri: You have to be pulled by that unconditional love, that’s the experience that gives you detachment. Leigh: Would you speak about the pull of the living Master when maybe we haven’t even met the living Master yet Perhaps it is predestined? And then there’s the pull of the Master that stays with us while we’re alive with them, and then the pull of the Master after they pass. Could you speak a little bit about how that works?

the United States. I am a seeker and I understand you give certain words and one gets enlightened.” “Will you give me those words?”

The swami was making a point that you cannot push away attachment. The harder you push attachment, the more you get attached to it.

He said, “Sure, since you’ve come all the way, I will. Come near me.” The man approached the swami and the swami whispered in his ear, “The magical words are abracadabra.” He said, “What! I’ve come all the way to hear abracadabra?” He said, “No, there is a catch to it. When you

The answer to that question of how to deal with attachment is in how we get detachment. You can’t practice detachment. The only answer we found was to get attached to something else. You can be attached to one thing, and if you get attached to something else different from that, your

The swami said, “Sure, I do.”

Ishwar Puri: Predestined? The pull of a Master is predestined because our going back to our true home is predestined. The reason it’s predestined is we came here not for staying here; we came here for adventure. We came here to have a different kind of experience. The consciousness adopted certain instruments, certain tools, in order to have different experiences. These tools were our own mind, our sense perceptions, and the physical body. There are other kinds of tools also, but let’s look at these three.

unconditional love, that’s the experience that gives you detachment. Click to continue on p.82 @msiaorg

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This real nature of the pull of the Perfect Living Master, is unconditional love. It’s really different from the love where we say, “What have you done for me lately?” It is not a love where any conditions are imposed on us. There is no judgment involved.

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These three have given us varying kinds of experiences, and we have not come here to stay. We never had that intention. We were not that stupid that we were going to stay in this messy place. Before we ever came here we made an arrangement to find a way to go back, and we’re using that way to go back, at a predestined time. And that is when a Perfect Living Master comes into our life. I’ll tell you an interesting story here. Somebody asked me to see

a movie called Inception. You must have seen it. Inception is a story where people can dream, within a dream, within dreams. They can go into three levels dream, within a dream, within a dream. Somebody advised me to see the movie. I don’t normally see movies but I saw that one. In a dream, one thing you can do is to stretch time. A 10-minute wakeful state can create an hour of dream, and an hour of dream in a further of dream can create a lifetime of

. . . in non-duality we don’t have an opposite to experience,

50 years. So you can have a whole life experience by just dreaming within dreaming within dreaming.

all the atrocities that are going on: Because we are making this experience an opposite. In this experience of duality, we are I said, “How wonderful.” Here we are dreaming not three times, but making an opposite of the world of non-duality where we belong; six times from our true state. So but in non-duality we don’t have a timeless moment there can be an opposite to experience, so made into trillions of years here, how do we experience it? By and that’s what’s happening. creating a world of duality, it We did this in order to have becomes an opposite. different experiences. And I’ll tell you why we’re having these In that movie, they also have an different experiences, including arrangement of how to wake up pain and pleasure and including if they want to. They have a little

totem in their hand which they carry before they go into sleep. In the dream they can take that experience of holding a totem (which is a little prickly thing that pricks their hand) and, through the pain, they wake up. We have a totem too to wake up to the ultimate wakeful state, and that is the appearance, at a predestined time, of a Perfect Living Master. He is the totem. So the living Master has initiated us, and he has placed himself inside us as a

so how do we experience it? By creating a world of duality. . . @msiaorg

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visible being. Even if he dies, he is not gone; he still there and we experience that.

This recall of the previous state which occurred before you went into a lower level of consciousness gives the certainty of wakefulness. The same certainty comes when you get to the higher astral plane; the same certainty comes when you come to the causal plane; the same certainty comes when you go to your true home.

This real nature of the pull of the Perfect Living Master, is unconditional love. It’s really different from the love where we say, “What have you done for me lately?” It is not a love where any conditions are imposed on us. There is no judgment involved. A Perfect Living Master will never tell his disciple, “Well, be good otherwise I won’t help you.” Never. He will not be charging at all. He realizes that we are already trapped within our different kinds of karmas into various kinds of obligations and situations. He has compassion for us, he’s not judging us. Therefore, his love is nonjudgmental, unconditional. Even if you associate for a little time with such a person, that kind of love pulls you externally, and then later on internally. Leigh: Thank you. We use the word agnostic for someone who doesn’t really have faith in a higher power. Can that person gain benefit, even if their mindset can’t see it, by the presence of the Perfect Living Master coming into their life? Ishwar Puri: Absolutely. If you come to some of my meetings you will find a lot of atheists are sitting there. They don’t believe

in God, they don’t believe in anything else, but they do believe that they are there. My starting point is to start from where you are. Whether you believe or not, the experiential nature of this path is very different from blind faith. In fact, it requires no faith. You start by knowing you are there, and that doesn’t require any faith. Everyone who is alive and conscious knows he is there. The presence of the Self, in whatever form you see it—whether you think this physical body is the Self, or you think something else in it is the Self—is always there and known to you. It is known so clearly, without doubt, that nobody can question that. Nobody has ever questioned that. There are some experiences we have which are called experiences of certainty. One of the big examples of that would be when you go to sleep and have a dream, you forget this body. You’ve gone somewhere else, you’ve gone into a dream world, into dreamland, and then you wake up. Do you then ask, “Am I really awake?” Has anybody ever asked, “Am I awake?” Supposing a number of people stood outside and said, “You’re still sleeping,” would you believe them? Your own experience of wakefulness carries a certainty that nobody can destroy. These are some of the certainties. Why

There are some experiences we One of the big examples of that 84 New Day Herald

are you so certain that you are awake that you don’t even pinch yourself, you don’t even try to find out if you’re awake, you know you’re awake. How does that awareness of wakefulness come? One of the main reasons is that you remember that you went to sleep. That’s a big thing, it’s all working on memory. Supposing you did not remember that you went to sleep. You could be lost. But if you remember you went to sleep in the same bed,

you don’t have to open your eyes to be awake, you don’t have to move, you’re still awake and in the same state in the bed you know. “Yes, I went to sleep here.” This recall of the previous state which occurred before you went into a lower level of consciousness gives the certainty of wakefulness. The same certainty comes when you get to the higher astral plane; the same certainty comes when you come to the causal plane; the same certainty comes

when you go to your true home. These are the experiences of wakefulness. They’re not journeys to somewhere, but we call them spiritual journeys, traveling. It looks like travel because we are traveling in experiences through time and space. Right now we travel and we think we really move. You know, we don’t really move. Consciousness does not move. Experience moves around us and we think we’re moving. The same thing happens at other levels of consciousness that we experience in meditation.

have which are called experiences of certainty. would be when you go to sleep and have a dream, you forget this body. @msiaorg

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The truth is that the sense of certainty that comes with internal experience, you can’t beat that. It just carries its own conviction. Even an atheist can come.

Einstein himself, in the last moments of his life, said, “I did not give enough attention to the role of an observer.”

I’ve come across some strange atheists. One said to me, “Thank God I’m an atheist.” Everybody has some kind of belief system, even the atheists and the agnostics. Leigh: One of the things that I’m hearing is there is great value in being a skeptic, which I call checking things out. Check it out, don’t believe. Your real evaluation of something is your inner experience. Ishwar Puri: I entirely agree with you, entirely agree with you. Skepticism was one of the greatest gifts given to us because if you’re not a skeptic you’ll believe anything that happens. How do you

distinguish between one choice and another? Skepticism is necessary. But the only thing is that you can’t be a skeptic forever. If you’re a skeptic and you want to find out something, and you spend your whole life trying to find out, then you have missed the bus. The story is told of a man in India. The villages there have wells where they don’t have any parapet walls, they’re level with the ground. A city man was walking in a village and he fell into the well. The well, fortunately, was shallow so he didn’t drown, but he wondered why he fell in the well. He was crying and shouting and somebody heard his moaning and groaning and came to help him. He said, “Can I help you? I can bring a rope and send it down and pull you up.” He said, “Before you bring the rope, first tell me why did I fall into

The truth is that the sense 86 New Day Herald

the well? Secondly, tell me if you bring a rope, how do you know that when I’m trying to pull myself out you won’t drop me again? Explain all these things to me before I agree to being pulled out.” The other man said, “Look, I can answer all of these questions once you’re out of the well. Because you fell into the well, you know you’ve fallen into the well, and you want to come out. Why don’t you wait until we pull out? “No. I won’t hold the rope unless you first answer all the questions.” We can carry skepticism to that absurdity.

Leigh: I’m so interested in how— considering your early life, your family, your initiations, and your exposure to the Perfect Living Master—you came to be a scientist? If I understand it correctly, you went to Harvard, and you became an engineer. How did that bridge happen?

There are people who would ask questions, and one answer leads to another question because, unfortunately, in life there are a lot of contradictions. You come across so many contradictions when you apply reason to things, and some cannot be explained by reason. People get confused because one contradiction leads to another. You can be so involved in them that you answer, “I am a skeptic, therefore I am doing this. ” That kind of skepticism keeps you away from truth. It does not help. Real skepticism, where you want to get answers to your basic questions, is necessary to find the truth, and I agree with you.

Ishwar Puri: The scientific approach to creation is trying to find out. The significant change took place from Newtonian physics, to Einsteinian physics, to the development of quantum physics where they found that the observation of a person is changing matter. That’s a very big thing. Einstein himself, in the last moments of his life, said, “I did not give enough attention to the role of an observer.” You know, those comments are now coming into play and people are looking at the power of observation.

Ishwar Puri: I didn’t see any difference between the two. Today I don’t see any difference between science and spirituality. Leigh: Oh, good. I wanted to ask you about that.

What they’re investigating is, how do we know there’s a reality? I’m talking physics now. How do we know there is a reality? Because we observe it. Whether you observe

with your eyes, or through a telescope, or a microscope, or any equipment, you’re observing it. That means an observer is necessary to know there’s reality. Maybe the observer creates reality—something that is being propagated amongst scientists today. Science has come so close to understanding that there’s a very big link between a conscious observer and what he’s observing. Very soon they’ll be able to find out it’s the observation that creates the experience, and not the other way around. There’s a very old story of people asking, “Is the tree there, therefore I can see it? Or I’m seeing it, and therefore the tree comes?” One can answer that by saying whatever comes first must be the cause, whatever happens later is the effect. That tree has to be the cause before you can see it. If you don’t place a tree in front of you, you won’t see it. But placing the tree in front of you is like an experience too. Is that being created by your seeing the placing of the tree, or are you seeing and that’s creating the tree? When we examine that, then how we see a tree, the seeing of the tree and the tree itself are absolutely simultaneous. There’s no time lag at all. Therefore we can never say which is the cause and which is the effect.

of certainty that comes with internal experience, you can’t beat that. @msiaorg

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In the Fermi lab near Chicago, there are three colliders where they collide particles to see what happens. They are able to accelerate a particle beyond the velocity of light, and the whole thing is being photographed. The particle reaches the destination before it left. That is an amazing thing. You can see where science is going. A particle can be seen at the destination and it is also there at the beginning, and it’s only one particle. But this is not something new. They knew earlier that in a hydrogen atom, a single electron

always there, and before that it’s everywhere. These are questions like whether it’s a wave or it’s a particle. This thing has been going on for quite a time. Leigh: When I was young I studied Vedanta and I was fascinated because I knew a lot of physicists who were also involved with spiritual study. One of the axioms was the observer and the observed is one. This is ancient, ancient understanding coming forward now in another way in our modern science.

discovering? Is there a movement from the East to the West in our spiritual understanding? Ishwar Puri: Absolutely. As I mentioned to you earlier, my Master Baba Sawan Singh predicted that the kind of knowledge that we have had for centuries here in the East is going to move into the West, and the East is not going to retain the knowledge because they’re going to move so much into acquiring material wealth that they will become like what the West was in its development. The West will now seek those answers because the knowledge of the East is going to move to the West, which is happening. Leigh: Yes, and we’ve already been through a massive industrial revolution, we’ve had all this materialism, which is a good place to begin to ask the deeper questions.

moves around in an orbit around the neutron. That single electron, where is it? Leigh: Right there.

Ishwar Puri: I agree. This is ancient knowledge which is coming up now to the West but you got it from the East.

Ishwar Puri: It can be anywhere in the whole cycle of orbit all around it. We know the distance from the nucleus but we don’t know where it is. When you put a laser pointer at the point of the distance, it’s there. After that it’s

Leigh: Yes, so on that note how do you perceive this ancient, remarkable information, going back to the Mahabharata, to the Vedas, to Vedanta, that was laid down thousands of years ago and that in many respects science is just

88 New Day Herald

Ishwar Puri: Absolutely. These questions are being asked not only because they are beyond the material wealth, but because affluence has not satisfied us. Affluence has not given us the answers we wanted and we still have the same questions. That is why this knowledge coming from the East to the West is going to provide those answers. Leigh: In terms of the world that we’re seeing today in the newspaper, that’s very hard to look at sometimes, I would love

your thoughts on whether this is predestined. Or if we’re creators and we create our reality, or it’s all an illusion, or it’s predestination for a higher purpose,—which would be my optimistic way of looking at it. Ishwar Puri: I don’t believe there are creators, only one Creator. Leigh: Yes, but we’re creative as humans. Ishwar Puri: The one creator appears to be in so many of us, but doesn’t become many, it still remains one creator. If you’re in a dream, you go to sleep and have a dream and you meet 20 people, are 20 dreaming or one? When you wake up it was only one. This awakening that takes place in us at the end leads to only one dreamer, one creator. Therefore, the one creator is appearing in all these forms. When you say that the creative power is generating these experiences, it’s all predestined. It’s simple. Most people in different religions believe in God. What is the definition of God? He is the creator. He is omnipresent, he is omnipotent, and he is omniscient. The third word, omniscient, means he knows everything. Does he know what I’m going to decide tomorrow, or not? If he doesn’t, he’s not God. And if he knows, it’s predestined. So when we’re asking the question of whether we have free will or if it’s predetermined,


just with this proposition we discover that if God is a reality as we understand it, then it has to be predetermined—everything. So it’s predestined—the whole thing— but it doesn’t look like that. And it deliberately does not look like that because otherwise there will be no game, you can’t make any choices and you can’t do anything. Free will is a great experience but only an experience. It’s not real. It’s predetermined. How we make our choices is also predetermined, what thoughts come to us is also predetermined. I had a personal experience with a guy in India. I had gone for an interview for the Navy. After the Navy interview, I came out with some papers in my hand and I met this man with a turban. He said, “Do you have a piece of paper?” I said, “Yes,” I took out a piece of paper. He looked into my eyes, he began to write something. I didn’t know what he was writing. Then he folded that paper, and when he folded it he said, “Hold it in your hand,” so I held it in my hand. “Have you more paper?” “Yes, here it is.” “Now you write,” he said to me, “Write a number between one and ten.” I said this is a game we used to play as children, where you say write a number between one and ten, and everybody writes five. I wanted to call his bluff, so I wrote three. He said, “Write the name of a flower.” I thought the most common flower is a rose, he’s asking me to write

They are able to accelerate a particle beyond the velocity of light, and the whole thing is being photographed. The particle reaches the destination before it left. That is an amazing thing. You can see where science is going. A particle can be seen at the destination and it is also there at the beginning, and it’s only one particle.

Does he know what I’m going to decide tomorrow, or not? If he doesn’t, he’s not God. And if he knows, it’s predestined.

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These questions are being asked not only because they are beyond the material wealth, but because affluence has not satisfied us. Affluence has not given us the answers we wanted and we still have the same questions. That is why this knowledge coming from the East to the West is going to provide those answers.

rose. I’m not going to write that, I will write the name of a flower he has never heard of, so I thought of a flower which is in Punjab, our state, it’s called chameli. I wrote in English, C-H-A-M-E-L-I, in capitals. He said, “Write your date of birth.” I wrote 1926. That’s not the date, that’s the year, and normally we write the date of the month before the year, but I added the month 11 afterwards.

to make choices to our current decisions, but they’re all working only through predestination. I have had other experiences which also prove the whole thing is predestined, but we don’t see it like that.

He said, “Open the paper I gave you.” I opened the paper. It said three, CHAMELI, 1926 and then the date, exactly like I wrote. Completely floored me. How could he write something that I had not even thought of? How could he write something that I had decided on later? While I was still struck by what he had done, he asked, “Shall I tell you more?” I said, “Go ahead.” He said, “When I asked you to write a number between one and ten, you said, ‘I’m going to call his bluff; he is expecting me to write five,’ and when asked for the flower, you said, ‘He is expecting me to write rose.’” He knew exactly how I thought. He knew it and actually demonstrated it. I asked him, “How did you learn this?” He said we have a Yogi, we have a swami, and he teaches us how to read the mind of anybody. Obviously, for him to be able to read that, it all has to be predestined.

Ishwar Puri: I am only helping people who are marked by my Master. I do not initiate.

When we think we’re making choices, we think we are applying some rules of finding out how

Leigh: Were you designated by Sawan Singh to become an initiator so could you pass the initiations on? Do you have initiates?

Leigh: Your Master initiates through you? Ishwar Puri: He does. I watch it. Not only do I watch it, but because of my relationship with my Master, I ask him, “This guy has come in front of me and says initiate me. What do you say?” He says, “He’s marked. Yes.” I don’t even call it my initiation, I call it great Master’s initiation. Most of the people who come to me for initiation are already initiated. Most of them have had masters who took them up to a certain point, and then they couldn’t go any further. They are the ones who are coming for this kind of initiation, which is great Master’s initiation, not mine. Leigh: Thank you. I saw one of your seminars and you gave me a key for my life that is so profound. You talked about the five senses. You said the sixth sense is intuition, the

You can deal with any situation in the world, no matter how profound or how 90 New Day Herald

seventh sense is common sense (which I loved) and the eighth sense it the sense of humor. Then you said there were two profound words of a mantra and I was all ready for something really deep… And you said, “So what.” Ishwar Puri: Absolutely, that is a practical mantra. Leigh: I would like you to speak about humor and “so what.” Ishwar Puri: You can deal with any situation in the world, no matter how profound or how difficult it is, if you look at it in its totality. What is the place that it has in your life? And you will say “So what and so what.”

Ishwar Puri: That is not true. Women have been Perfect Living Masters. Leigh: Can you tell me about them? Ishwar Puri: Socrates’ Master was a woman. He described it. He learned everything from a woman Master. There are many Masters who in India who were women also. But somehow because our society is more oriented to male dominance, which has been going on for a long time, women have not been brought into so much prominence. But their teachings exist. There’s no bar on a woman becoming a Master.

There is no difference, at the level of the Soul, between a man and a woman. The difference arises from Leigh: That’s a gift to me, thank the mind. If you see from the top you, because one of the things that how the creation descended and I deal with is that my environment stimulates me. I can get into urgency, created gender, and created the experience of love by dividing us like busyness, meeting deadlines, and getting it all done, completing, and crossing things off the list. And it can really lead me to exaggerating their importance. So when you give me the key of so what…

into genders, you will find that in Parabrahm, which is beyond the region of the mind, there’s no difference. The Soul is only one and it encompasses both the male and the female principles. When we’re talking of Perfect Living Masters, they can be a woman or a man. Leigh: Thank you so much. Ishwar Puri: You’re most welcome, I’m very happy to have this conversation with you. Leigh: Me too, and I hope it’s an opportunity where we got to see each other again and share again. Ishwar Puri: Definitely. I feel so much at home here, and I want to thank everybody here, and I love this beautiful place. Leigh: Thank you, God bless you.

Ishwar Puri: I’m so happy the key worked. Leigh: It really worked. It was really useful, and it still is useful. Drawing to a close, I have one or two more questions. One of them is why do you think it is that women generally don’t become Perfect Living Masters?

difficult it is, if you look at it in its totality. Back to Table of Contents @msiaorg

New Day Herald 91

Jump-start your Journey

A body of work created to help guide us on the inward path home Be on the lookout for these, plus NEW releases during this year’s

Conference of the Sound Current 2016 Audio

Are You Listening to the Sound Current? — [ Click Here ] Initiation: Molding the Golden Chalice — [ Click Here ] Click here for Spanish — [ Click Here ] The Traveler: The One Who Laughs in Your Heart — [ Click Here ] Click here for Spanish — [ Click Here ]


How Do you See the Face of God? — [ Click Here ] The Sound Current: The Road Home - English/French — [ Click Here ] Out of the Silence — [ Click Here ] Out of the Silence - Spanish — [ Click Here ]


Journey of Soul Transcendence CD/DVD Packet — [ Click Here ] Spiritual Exercises: Walking with the Lord 6-CD Set — [ Click Here ]

Available now in Hard-copy and Digital Format

Back to the Heart of God


Other recommended seminars...

For SAT subscribers only: 2021-CD/MP3: The Sound Current 8153-CD/MP3: Skepticism, Ego, Honesty ( also available in Spanish) 2530-CD/MP3: The Sounds of the Realms 8163-CD/MP3: Searching for the Truth of Who We Are 8023-CD/DVD/MP3/MP4: Signs and Sounds on the Inner Journey 7823-CD/MP3: Reaching Into The Sound Current

CD- $10 | DVD - $20 | MP3- $8 | MP4 - $12 To order: visit | email: | call: 323 240 7547

Jonathan Wigant and wife Elise

Following my Dreams Changing my Life by Jonathan

It took me 5 years to take J-R’s advice and change it to BigSpeak and to fully realize that what I had created was a speakers’ agency.

94 New Day Herald

My first company,

Iris Arc, provided crystals to Insight Seminars for many years. I’ll never forget getting a call from John-Roger and Russell Bishop (the founder and the creator of Insight, respectively) back in 1979, asking if we could provide the crystal hearts that symbolize the Opening Heart so brilliantly. I was so nervous talking to them but so excited to be a vital part of such a powerful training that had so empowered me and my partner. J-R also graciously allowed us


to sell our crystals out of the back of our van at the MSIA Conference for a few years. Our agreement was to tithe back to the Movement. Boy, were we blessed. From these humble beginnings, we built Iris Arc into an international giftware company with 5000 accounts nationwide and INC 500 stature. After 20 years, wedecided to sell the company and set sail in new waters. As I called on Spirit and the Traveler for guidance as to a new direction, I

bered a phrase from my recent ordination blessing: “Be vigilant inwardly for the next direction.” The first inkling I received was to recharge my batteries, as I had been burning the candle really hard in the process of selling the company. I decided to go up to Big Sur and take a workshop at Esalen Institute called “Refilling the Chalice” with Dr. Joan Borysenko, the noted brain scientist. The first evening of her workshop, Joan asked each of us to state our intention for the weekend. I shared with the group that I had several things I wished to accomplish, one of which was greater clarity on what my new work or calling was to be. At the end of the evening, Joan mentioned that there was wonderful early morning singing that took place at the Immaculate Heart Seminary just down Hwy 1. Five of us got up early in the morning and headed for the seminary. When we got there, the monks were singing beautiful a cappella hymns in a small chapel with great acoustics. We joined in and felt the power of our voices in this resonant chamber. At one point, we stopped singing and a young monk read a passage from scripture that said, “Whenever you ask for something in life, ask for it in the name of Spirit or the Christ.” Then we went back to singing again. After the service was over and we were winding our way down the hill and back towards Esalen, I said to myself, “Christ, would you please look in on the following things that I would like to take place?” And I proceeded to list my intentions from the night before, including wanting clarification on my new calling. The day was beautiful and the workshop nourishing, but little did I know what was in store for me when I went to sleep that night. I had an incredible dream where I was providing the finest transformational educators to people seeking greater self-understanding. All the resources they would need to transform their lives were being provided in one location. People were growing and healing, they were happier, relationships were joyful and meaningful, and I was providing a worthwhile and profound service. I woke up with this dream emblazoned in my mind. I felt like I had received a vision directly from God! @msiaorg

That morning I had breakfast with Joan and shared the vision I had received. She loved the idea and said, “I want to be the very first person on your team!” Furthermore, she said that she would help me to sign up other personal development experts whom she knew worked with integrity and heart. I was overjoyed with this wonderful support I was receiving for this divinely bestowed idea. J-R has always said to lean into things to see what happens. In the weeks and months that followed, I proceeded to contact the expert teachers that Joan had shared with me and many others. Slowly but surely, my vision evolved into a company I initially named Consciousness Unlimited. I remember sharing about my new company with J-R at the Living in Grace Retreat. He seemed positive about what I was doing but didn’t like the name. Frankly, I was really attached to the name. It took me 5 years to take J-R’s advice and change it to BigSpeak and to fully realize that what I had created was a speakers’ agency. I am extremely grateful to Spirit and the Traveler and to Esalen for contributing an environment where I was able to receive such a profound vision. As important was the focus and follow-through that I brought to the business each day. Some days just moving the company forward an inch or two was a big deal. But, like the tortoise, the slow, steady, intentional followthrough has resulted in BigSpeak being the largest business speakers’ agency in North America, providing individuals with the tools to help them develop as leaders while transforming their organizations into places where the human spirit soars. My ministry is very much about connecting with people and sharing the tools and resources that will help them live loving, creative lives. Part of my ministerial blessing is “to not get stuck in any one form.” Accordingly, I am currently in the process of writing about how I have invested in myself over the years and the resultant transformation that has taken place. I am so grateful for this opportunity to expand my ministry from being a business builder and sales agent into being the conduit for my flavor of the Traveler’s wisdom. Back to Table of Contents New Day Herald 95

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the heart of spiritual psychology An Experiential Workshop

Transformation Begins Within July 22–24, 2016 USM | Santa Monica, CA

JULY 22Я 24, 2016 | SANTA MONICA, CA This event will be simultaneously translated in Spanish (headphones available).

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This year’s Soul-Centered Living Series of Complimentary Evenings has presented a Spiritual Psychology perspective on three valuable topics: Relationships, Money, and Purpose. We are pleased to present the fourth in this dynamic Series— Spiritual Psychology: Living a Soul-Centered Life.

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Directory of Organizations “The journey of your Soul is to return to an awareness of and a oneness with God.” – John-Roger, DSS

MSIA The MOVEMENT of SPIRITUAL INNER AWARENESS (MSIA) teaches Soul Transcendence, which is becoming aware of oneself as a Soul, and, more than that, as one with God. Soul Awareness Discourses are the heart of MSIA’s teachings. They offer many practical keys to more successful living and to greater spiritual awareness. MSIA’s approach is to present activities and techniques that direct us toward the Spirit and loving that are the essence of who we are. P.O. Box 513935, L.A., CA 90051 (323) 737-4055

PTS PEACE THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY & COLLEGE OF PHILOSOPHY (PTS) provides spiritual education to students in the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness (MSIA) and to the general public to enhance awareness of Spirit. PTS offers classes, workshops, retreats, correspondence courses, a Master of Spiritual Science (MSS) degree, and a Doctor of Spiritual Science (DSS) degree.

Peace Awareness Labyrinth & Gardens Home of MSIA and PTS headquarters in Los Angeles, PEACE AWARENESS LABYRINTH AND GARDENS is a place where people can be in retreat without leaving the city.

IIWP also owns Windermere Ranch, in beautiful Santa Barbara, California. Windermere offers people the opportunity to explore and experience peace in a natural setting. 3500 W Adams Blvd, L.A., CA 90018 (323) 328-1905 Facebook:

THE UNIVERSITY OF SANTA MONICA was founded in 1976 by John-Roger and is a private graduate school offering Master’s degrees in Spiritual Psychology and Spiritual Psychology with an Emphasis in Consciousness, Health, and Healing.Known as the Worldwide Center for the Study and Practice of Spiritual Psychology, USM’s mission is communicating the principles and practices of Spiritual Psychology worldwide through the process of Soul-Centered education.

Visitors may walk the hand-carved stone outdoor labyrinth, enjoy a moment of peace in the meditation garden, attend regular meditation events and seminars, and join the staff and residents for lunch and dinner during the work-week. Students in MSIA who come to Peace Awareness Labyrinth and Gardens Soul-Centered education recognizes spiritual reality and begins with the assertion that rather than human beings who have also enjoy volunteering in the offices and doing spiritual a soul, we are more accurately described as souls having a exercises in the solarium. human experience. This assertion evokes a radical paradigm 3500 W Adams Boulevard, L.A., CA 90018 shift, which results in a psychological and educational (323) 737-4055 process whose goal is to bring forth the beauty, wisdom, and compassion inherent in every human being.

Heartfelt THE HEARTFELT FOUNDATION, founded in 1979 by John-Roger, is a volunteer-driven service organization which is operated through the Church of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness (MSIA), a 501(c)3 nonprofit organization. 100% of donations received go to those we serve. HeartFelt’s mission statement is: “Changing people’s lives through the healing power of heartfelt service.”

Founded in 1977 by John-Roger, PTS is a private, non-denomAn important part of HeartFelt’s work is the HeartReach inational educational seminary that teaches practical spiriProgram, which responds with Light and assistance to tuality. PTS provides educational opportunities that support students in becoming more aware of the Divine in themselves. members of our spiritual family who are undergoing lifechallenging or medical crises. 3500 W Adams Blvd., L.A., CA 90018 The HeartFelt Global Network reaches out to our worldwide (323) 737-1534 family, connecting us in our service to our communities, with the intent of sharing and inspiring the serving heart. For more info please contact Skyler Patton (serve@heartfelt. IIWP org) and subscribe to receive future HGN Bulletins at INSTITUTE FOR INDIVIDUAL AND WORLD PEACE® (IIWP) is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) foundation whose mission is to identify 3500 W. Adams Blvd., L.A., CA 90018 and present the processes that lead to peace. Its unique (323) 328.1908 approach is based on the principle that peace is present and that it starts with us, as individuals. IIWP presents peace processes through lectures, community peace projects, and workshops. Workshops are designed to anchor the experience and power of choosing peace as a practical reality in one’s life.


Esprit Travel & Tours Founded in 1975, ESPRIT serves our community and the general public.Esprit’s Independent Travel Department specializes in creating individually crafted cultural tours of Japan and Asia that journey deep into the arts, crafts, history, culture and cuisine of distant lands. Our custom tour itineraries deliver extraordinary cultural travel experiences. For more info about tours, contact us at: (800) 377-7481

This experiential educational paradigm evokes in students their own answers to the three essential questions: Who am I? Why am I here and what is my purpose? How can I make a meaningful contribution in the world? 2107 Wilshire Blvd., Santa Monica, CA 90403 310-829-7402

Insight Seminars INSIGHT SEMINARS is an international non-profit educational organization founded over 35 years ago, by John-Roger and created by Russell Bishop. Insight’s mission is to assist us in transforming ourselves and the world to loving and our purpose is to inspire people everywhere to a life of greater happiness, success and fulfillment, built on self-awareness, loving, caring, compassion and service. Insight operates throughout the world. Through the Insight Seminar Series, people are provided opportunities to learn practical skills and techniques for living a happier, more effective, successful, abundant and heart-centered life. Business Insight is available for companies to create corporate transformation and strategic success through the Business Insight Seminar, Teambuilding or Leadership Workshops, Executive Transformational Coaching or customized programs. 2101 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 221, Santa Monica, CA 90403 1.800.311.8001

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MSIA Resources Home Seminars Audio or video seminars with John-Roger or John Morton are held in many communities around the world. They are an excellent way to lift your spirits and further your spiritual attunement. Contact your local MSIA representative or call 323-737-4055 to find the closest home seminar in your area.

The MSIA Store A complete catalog of books, audio and videotapes, CDs, subscriptions, and other materials is available at

Web Ring XXX NTJB PSH r XXX K S PSH r XXX NTJBOPSUIFBTU PSH XXX NTJBGMPSJEB PSH XXX NTJBDBOBEB PSH r XXX GPSHJWF PSH (explore the programs, classes, and events offered through PTS. Register for PTS classes, and take a free e-mail class) (fresh news, articles by J-R and John Morton, daily stories and photos during the Traveler’s journeys for peace, and more‌) (send a free e-mail postcard!) (news about John-Roger and John Morton and their books) (download a free spiritual warrior journal; discover your purpose) (look for a sample blessing) (Peace Awareness Labyrinth & Gardens—news, events, info) (what it is, why do it, success stories and more. Tithe online!) (what it is, why do it, success stories and more. Seed online!)

PTS Classes The educational arm of MSIA, Peace Theological Seminary & College of Philosophy (PTS), offers experiential learning of Soul Transcendence and practical spirituality in a variety of formats, including evening classes, retreats, weekend offerings, e-mail and correspondence courses, and a 2-year Master’s and 3-year Doctor of Spiritual Science program. For more information, go to, call PTS at 323-737-1534, or e-mail registrar@pts.or

The MSIA Ministry The MSIA ministry is for initiates of the Traveler who are called inwardly to serve the spirit of their hearts. Service may be in any form, from volunteering for the Church to assisting people in need or organizations that serve those people, and anything in between. The only requirement is that the ministry is active and done regularly. MSIA ministers may perform services, like marriages, that clergy of other denominations are authorized to do as long as they comply with the laws of the locality in which they serve. People who have received initiation into the Sound Current through the Traveler may request an Application for Ordination packet from: .JOJTUFSJBM 4FSWJDFT *O "DUJPO r 8 "EBNT #MWE -PT "OHFMFT $" @msiaorg

Initiation Students in MSIA have an opportunity to be initiated through the Mystical Traveler Consciousness into the Sound Current, the audible stream of energy that comes from the heart of God. The levels of initiation in MSIA correspond to levels of consciousness both within and outside each person: astral (relating to the imagination), causal (relating to the emotions), mental (relating to the mind), etheric (paralleling the unconscious), and Soul (relating to who we truly are). There are also initiations above the Soul level. The astral initiation happens in the “night travel� (dream state) after a person has in some way come in contact with the Mystical Traveler; it is not anchored physically at that time, and the person may do no more with it in their lifetime. The next initiation is the causal, which can generally take place (be anchored) after two years of study with the Soul Awareness Discourses. (The astral initiation is anchored at the same time as the causal initiation.) Successive initiations are mental, etheric, and Soul. If you are just starting the Soul Awareness Discourses, Discourse #1 explains initiation into the Sound Current. You may choose to study the Discourses with the intention of being initiated or simply read them as information. This is up to you. If you do choose to study toward initiation, you need to write a letter as soon as you have decided and then email (or mail) it to the Traveler, saying that you are doing this. If you write this letter, the Traveler works with you more closely, and you may notice a greater spiritual awareness in your consciousness as this inner work goes on. After two years of study with the Discourses and if you have written and sent your intention letter to the Traveler, you can apply for causal initiation, generally when you have completed Discourse 24. The Traveler will look into your request, and you may be offered the opportunity for initiation. For astral/causal, mental, etheric, and Soul initiations, the person meets with an initiator and is given an initiation “tone� (the name of God for each realm that applies to the tone), which the initiate chants inwardly during spiritual exercises. These initiation tones are charged with spiritual energy by the Traveler Consciousness for each person individually, and the Traveler assists the student in clearing enough karma on one level to be initiated into the next level. For the levels of initiation above the Soul level, no initiation tone is given physically. For more information about initiation, you could read the chapter called Initiation in John-Roger’s book Fulfilling Your Spiritual Promise (available in paper and electronic versions). And we also recommend these seminars by John-Roger: “Initiation—Molding the Golden Chalice� The key seminar about studying towards initiation and being an initiate. Available in CD and MP3 formats. “The Sound Current: The Road Home� An excellent overview of MSIA and initiation. Available in DVD and MP3 formats.

Loving Each Day Loving Each Day quotes by John-Roger and John Morton are delivered daily to you via e-mail. Start your computer session with a daily e-mail message of inspiration and loving. Available in four languages—English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese —a subscription is free upon request by visiting Loving Each Day e-postcards, on an award-winning site, are also available at Back to Table of Contents New Day Herald 101