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! Romans Eight 15 through 33 !


! Roma 8:15 you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"


! Roma 8:15 you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" ! 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,


! Roma 8:15 you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" ! 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, ! 17 heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him].


! Roma 8:15 you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" ! 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, ! 17 heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him]. ! 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.


! Roma 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, ! 17 heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him]. ! 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. ! 19 creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.


! Roma 8:17 heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him]. ! 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. ! 19 creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. ! 21 creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.


! Roma 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. ! 19 creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. ! 21 creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ! 22 the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.


! Roma 8:19 creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. ! 21 creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ! 22 the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. ! 23 we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.


! Roma 8:21 creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ! 22 the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. ! 23 we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. ! 24 For in hope we have been saved,


! Roma 8:22 the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. ! 23 we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. ! 24 For in hope we have been saved, ! 26 the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for [us] with groanings too deep for words;


! Roma 8:23 we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for [our] adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. ! 24 For in hope we have been saved, ! 26 the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for [us] with groanings too deep for words; ! He intercedes for the saints according to [the will of] God.


<Roma 8:26 the Spirit also helps our weakness <28 but we know that for those who are loving God, God is working all things together for good, according to His purpose, to those being called.


<Roma 8:26 the Spirit also helps our weakness <28 but we know that for those who are loving God, God is working all things together for good, according to His purpose, to those being called. <Verse 28 is one sentence with four verbs expressing present continuous action; Romans 8:28


<Roma 8:26 the Spirit also helps our weakness Romans 8:28 Pwe are knowing


<Roma 8:26 the Spirit also helps our weakness Romans 8:28 Pwe are knowing Pthat to those who are loving


<Roma 8:26 the Spirit also helps our weakness Romans 8:28 Pwe are knowing Pthat to those who are loving PGod is working all things together to good


<Roma 8:26 the Spirit also helps our weakness Romans 8:28 Pwe are knowing Pthat to those who are loving PGod is working all things together to good PTo those being called


< ! Verse 28 is one sentence with four verbs expressing present continuous action; <1.We are knowing,


< ! Verse 28 is one sentence with four verbs expressing present continuous action; <1.We are knowing <2. to those who are loving


< ! Verse 28 is one sentence with four verbs expressing present continuous action; <1.We are knowing, <2. to those who are loving <3. God is working


< ! Verse 28 is one sentence with four verbs expressing present continuous action; <1. We are knowing, <2. that to those who are loving <3. God is working <4. To those being called


! Verse 29 ! because whoever He before came to know also He did before choose (for them to be) conformed to the image of His Son, for to be Himself the firstborn among many brethren;


! because whoever He before came to know also He did before choose (for them to be) conformed to the image of His Son, for to be Himself the firstborn among many brethren; ! but whom He did before choose, those also He did call; ! and whom He did call, those also He did justify (declare righteous); ! but whom He did justify, those also He did glorify, (restore to moral excellence)."


! Verse 28, present tense ! Verses 29 & 30 aorist tense ! He foreknew,


! He foreknew, ! He predestined


! He foreknew, ! He predestined ! He called


! ! ! !

He foreknew, He predestined He called He justified


! ! ! ! !

He foreknew, He predestined He called He justified; He glorified.


! The 1st aorist verb: “Foreknew” (S#4267)


! The 1st aorist verb: “Foreknew” (S#4267) <"foreknew" is progivnwskw


! The 1st aorist verb: â&#x20AC;&#x153;Foreknewâ&#x20AC;? (S#4267) <"foreknew" is progivnwskw <to have knowledge of beforehand


! The 1st aorist verb: “Foreknew” (S#4267) <"foreknew" is progivnwskw <to have knowledge of beforehand <comes from Pπρό, before, and


! The 1st aorist verb: “Foreknew” (S#4267) <"foreknew" is progivnwskw <to have knowledge of beforehand <comes from Pπρό, before, and Pγινώσκω, to learn, to know, come to know, get a knowledge of.


! The 1st aorist verb: “Foreknew” (S#4267) ! Example: Look at (S#4267) Acts 26: 4-5


! The 1st aorist verb: â&#x20AC;&#x153;Foreknewâ&#x20AC;? (S#4267) ! Look at (S#4267) Acts 26: 4-5 < 4 Paul tells King Agrippa"So then, all Jews

have known my manner of life from my youth up, which from the beginning was spent among my [own] nation and at Jerusalem;


! The 1st aorist verb: “Foreknew” (S#4267) ! Look at (S#4267) Acts 26: 4-5 < 4 "So then, all Jews have known my manner of life from my youth up, which from the beginning was spent among my [own] nation and at Jerusalem; ! 5 προγινωσκοντες <4267>{V-PAP-NPM} from

προγιωνωσκω µε{P-1AS}

! .having foreknown me ! ανωθεν {ADV} ! .from the beginning.


! The 1st aorist verb: “Foreknew” (S#4267) ! Look at (S#4267) Acts 26: 4-5 < 4 "So then, all Jews have known my manner of life from my youth up, which from the beginning was spent among my [own] nation and at Jerusalem; ! 5 προγινωσκοντες <4267>{V-PAP-NPM} µε{P-1AS} ! .foreknowing me .

! ανωθεν {ADV} ! .from the beginning. ! if they are willing to testify, that I lived [as] a

Pharisee according to the strictest sect of our religion.


! g4<fF6T is used to express experiential knowledge


! g4<fF6T is used to express experiential knowledge ! in I Cor. 8:3 if anyone loves God, he is egnwstai (g4<fF6T ) known by Him


! g4<fF6T is used to express experiential knowledge ! in ICor. 8:3 if anyone loves God, he is egnwstai known by Him ! and Gal. 4:9. But now gnonte "that you have come to know God, or rather gnwsqente to be known by God


! COMMENTS: Godâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s great love removed all the barriers to man's salvation except man's repentance.


! COMMENTS: Godâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s great love removed all the barriers to man's salvation except man's repentance. ! When a person repents, God meets him and he begins to experience intimacy with God, and God experiences intimacy with him.


! COMMENTS: Godâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s great love removed all the barriers to man's salvation except man's repentance. ! When a person repents, God meets him and he begins to experience intimacy with God, and God experiences intimacy with him. ! God uses the word "know" to describe this new intimacy


! COMMENTS: God’s great love removed all the barriers to man's salvation except man's repentance. ! God meets him and he begins to experience his intimacy with God, and God experiences intimacy with him. ! God uses the word "know" to describe this new intimacy ! to those who are lost, Christ shall someday say, ! OudepoteëÑçë te egnwnëåñâÐÐØ uma H ! "I never knew you."


! ! ! !

2Pet 3:17

You therefore, beloved, προγινωσκοντες <4267> {V-PAP-NPM} Having foreknowledge be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness


! 1Pet 1:20 For He (Jesus) ! προεγνωσµενου <4267> {V-RPP-GSM} ! was foreknown (by the Father and the Holy Spirit) ! before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you (that you may experientially know Him too)


! God knew the Christians in Rome.


! God knew the Christians in Rome. ! Paul writes Romans 8 to living Christians in Rome. He is writing to those whom God proegnw, proegnw , before came to know",


! God knew the Christians in Rome. ! Paul writes Romans 8 to living Christians in Rome. He is writing to those whom God proegnw, before came to know", ! God previously had come to know each person in intimate personal experience from the moment they entered into salvation.


! However, these Roman Christians are presently going through a time of suffering. But Paul says,


! However, these Roman Christians are presently going through a time of suffering. But Paul says, <â&#x20AC;&#x153;I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.â&#x20AC;? (V. 18)


! Though they are enduring difficulties, Paul said,


! Though they are enduring difficulties, Paul said, <â&#x20AC;&#x153;We know that to those who are loving God, He is working all things together for good.â&#x20AC;?


! Though they are enduring difficulties, Paul said, <â&#x20AC;&#x153;We know that to those who are loving God, He is working all things together for good.â&#x20AC;? <Before they had entered into their present difficulties, God had already decided what He was going to build in their lives, and He was using their difficulties for good unto that end.


! Those whom God previously had come to know in intimate personal experience (before their present suffering--prior to the time of adversity which they were then experiencing)


! Those whom God previously had come to know in intimate personal experience (before their present suffering--prior to the time of adversity which they were then experiencing) ! V.29 He also prowrisen predestined (purposed before their present suffering) for them to be conformed to the image and likeness of His blessed Son, that they might dwell with the elder Brother, Jesus.


! 29He also prowrisen predestined (purposed before their present suffering) for them to be conformed to the image and likeness of His blessed Son, that they might dwell with the elder Brother, Jesus. ! (God is creatively using their present distress as an instrument for developing their character, until their character was conformed to the character of Jesus.)


! Aorist verb: He predestined


! Aorist verb: He predestined ! Those whom God previously had come to know in intimate personal experience (before their present suffering â&#x20AC;&#x201D; prior to the time of adversity which they were then experiencing)


! How do we know Paul is referring specifically to them?


! How do we know Paul is refering specifically to them? <... because Paul is using the aorist tenses, describing past experiences.


! How do we know Paul is refering specifically to them? <... because Paul is using the aorist tenses, describing past experiences. <It is sometimes said that these verses teach that God knows as a certainty every individual who shall ever be born, and particularly of everyone who shall ever be saved.


! How do we know Paul is refering specifically to them? <... because Paul is using the aorist tenses, describing past experiences. <It is sometimes said that these verses teach that God knows as a certainty every individual who shall ever be born, and particularly of everyone who shall ever be saved. <If we insist that the phrase "whom He foreknew", refers to every person that will ever get saved, we would end up with some very great difficulties:


! Paul is refering specifically to them


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties:


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different from what God appointed or predestinated. It would have to be as God appointed it.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different from what God appointed or predestinated. It would have to be as God appointed it. NThen how does any person have any choice in the matter? How can the will choose when the outcome is already a certainty before there was even a chance to choose?


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. From the present tense of the word "being called" in vs. 28, we see that some are still being called


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. From the present tense of the word "being called" in vs. 28, we see that some are still being called; NThus the same word in vs. 30, were called, cannot refer to everybody who ever would get saved, â&#x20AC;&#x201D; to all those who ever shall be called. If it did, then v. 28 would contradict v. 30.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. some are still being called; Nwere called,cannot refer to everybody who ever would get saved, NCan it be true that God already has called all those who ever shall be saved, and yet God is still calling those same people?


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. some are still being called; P3. We further would have the absurdity that some of those who have been called from eternity are now living in vileness and sin.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. some are still being called; P3. called living in vileness and sin. Nâ&#x20AC;&#x153;See that wicked sinner cursing and blaspheming God? He may be one that God has already called, justified, and glorified (revealing the majestic splendor of God.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. some are still being called; P3. called living in vileness and sin. P4. But above all, "whom He did call, those also He did justify". Forgiveness of sins is an act of God that happens during a process of time.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. some are still being called; P3. called living in vileness and sin. P4. But above all, "whom He did call, those also He did justify". Forgiveness of sins is an act of God that happens during a process of time. NThere was a period in a personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s life when his sins were not forgiven, and then there came an instant in which they were forgiven.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. some are still being called; P3. called living in vileness and sin. P4. Forgiveness â&#x20AC;&#x201D; a process of time. Nnot forgiven, and then there came an instant in which they were forgiven. NNow if language means anything, it is incorrect and meaningless to say that a personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s sins were always forgiven, and yet that some instant, he becomes forgiven when he always was forgiven.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P1. No personâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s eternal destiny could ever be different P2. some are still being called; P3. called living in vileness and sin. P4. Forgiveness â&#x20AC;&#x201D; a process of time. P5. If God had already justified all He will ever save, then God would already have justified some who are now living in sin.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. If God had already justified all He will ever save, then God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. NA wicked sinner is right now gratifying his lusts, but supposedly He would still be accepted in righteousness, justified by God, because God forgave him before the foundation of the world!


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. NA wicked sinner gratifying his lusts but still be justified NHe would even be forgiven before he ever even committed his sins!


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. NA wicked sinner gratifying his lusts but still be justified NHe would even be forgiven before he ever even committed his sins! NThere would be no need for grace because there had not even been an accumulation of guilt for grace to act upon. A bank robber would be forgiven of robbery before he even committed the robbery.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. If God has justified all who will ever be saved once and for all, God would not at this time be being moved with compassion, and tenderly extending mercy.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. If God has justified all who will ever be saved once and for all, God would not be at this time being moved with compassion, and tenderly extending mercy. NThis wars against Scriptures that say God is filled with wrath, then ponders peopleâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s repentance, then grants forgiveness.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. God not moved with compassion P7. verse 33, says, (using the present tense) that God "is justifying". If God once and for all justified all who ever shall be saved (in v.30), then verse 33 contradicts verse 30 because it says that God is now continuing to justify people.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. God not moved with compassion P7. vs. 33 would contradict v.29 NWe end up with an interpretation that does not make sense.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. God not moved with compassion P7. vs. 33 would contradict NWe end up with an interpretation that does not make sense. NGod would be justifying those whom He already justified from the foundation of the world.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. God not moved with compassion P7. vs. 33 would contradict N does not make sense. NGod would be justifying those whom He already justified NThis further would contradict Rev.13:8 that says â&#x20AC;&#x153;the names were being writtenâ&#x20AC;? (perfect tense) during a process of time -- not aorist tense (which would be all at once.)


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. God not moved with compassion P7. vs. 33 would contradict P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P5. God would already have justified some who are now living in sin. P6. God not moved with compassion P7. vs. 33 would contradict P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. NIt contradicts reason to say that some are still in their sins, others are not yet even born, but yet they are all right now "rendered excellent."


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. NIt contradicts reason to say that some are still in their sins, others are not yet even born, but yet they are all right now "rendered excellent." NGod predestined, called, and justified as specific acts, and people actually experienced it.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. NIt contradicts reason to say some still in sins, but yet "rendered excellent." NGod predestined, called, and justified as specific acts, and people actually experienced it. NLikewise, the people must also be glorified as a specific, actual experience also.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being.


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being. Nwalks and interacts with men


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being. Nwalks and interacts with men Ndoes definite acts at definite times


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being. Nwalks and interacts with men Ndoes definite acts at definite times Nrests,observes,thinks,is reasoned with


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P8. Those spoken of have not only been justified, but also glorified. P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being. Nwalks and interacts with men Ndoes definite acts at definite times Nrests,observes,thinks,is reasoned with Nremembers,is grieved,is jealous, angry


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being. Nwalks and interacts with men Ndoes definite acts at definite times Nrests,observes,thinks,is reasoned with Nremembers,is grieved,is jealous, angry Ncompassionate, forgives and comforts Ndelights and rejoices


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being. Nwalks and interacts with men Ndoes definite acts at definite times Nrests,observes,thinks,is reasoned with Nremembers,is grieved,is jealous, angry Ncompassionate, forgives and comforts Ndelights and rejoices Nresponds to the pleas of people


! Paul is refering specifically to them < Otherwise some very great difficulties: P9. Further it can’t be explained away as an aspect of the “eternal now” because the Bible says God is a living Being. Nwalks and interacts with men Ndoes definite acts at definite times Nrests,observes,thinks,is reasoned with Nremembers,is grieved,is jealous, angry Ncompassionate, forgives and comforts Ndelights and rejoices Nresponds to the pleas of men Nrepents, changes His purposes


! The End


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