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Morrisville State College ​this is part two of my interview with Chuck lie CEO of enterprise financial services in western Pennsylvania Kelly Coughlin is CEO of Bank boasting a management consulting firm helping banks sea level officers navigate risk and discover reward he's the host of the syndicated audio podcast bank person comm kelly brings over 25 years of experience with companies like PwC Lloyds Bank and Merrill Lynch on the podcast Kelley interview key executives in the banking ecosystem biobank c-suite offices risk management technology and investment ideas and solutions helped them navigate risks and discover reward and now your host Helen greetings this is Kelley Heartland CEO of Bank Boston helping Bank c-suite execs navigate risk and discover reward in a sea of threats and opportunity today is part two of my interview with Chuck lie the CEO of Enterprise Financial Services in Allegheny County Pennsylvania for those of you who do not know your geography Allegheny County is in western Pennsylvania by the way the history of Allegheny County is fascinating especially the period during the 1750s and 1760s before the Revolutionary War during this time the French and British were jockeying for power position and control of the interior of the US and primarily Ohio River Valley system in the US we called this the French and Indian War but the Europeans called it the Seven Years War and it was really the world's first world war and at the center of the Ohio River Valley was a small fort first established by the French at the spot where three rivers came together the Allegheny the Monongahela and the Ohio rivers this spot was titled Fort Duquesne by the French but after they lost it to the Brits it was renamed after the British prime minister at the time William Pitt of course we all know it as Pittsburgh and at the center of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County today is enterprise financial services led by Chuck lye and his team and they are doing some really really interesting and fascinating debt funding deals with companies who most likely would receive a big No traditional bankers but because chucks team has included a number of due diligence risk mitigation and value-added consulting services to their business model he has created a very good business in the company with excellent financial results in part one we talked about his unique business model and how it evolved and some of the critical value add components in part two we are going to talk about how this uniqueness presents challenges in dealing with regulators and his auditors okay just briefly you're dealing with regulators and auditors I imagine those guys give you a bit of a hard time over your business models out of their statement I'd say that's an extremely fair statement I would say that if I had known the way the regulatory environment was going to migrate after the recession I would have never started the bank in the first place it's I'm a CPA by trade whether you're a regulator or your banker generally accepted accounting principles govern the way we report and the financial information that we put out and I have a very very strong belief that regulators do not follow generally accepted accounting principles and as a result make it very challenging for banks to deal with startup businesses or businesses and distress is it mainly the revenue recognition challenge uh yeah I think that's a big big part of it give you an example if you look at GAAP there's terminology when it comes to revenue recognition that's basically is it more likely and not and probable if it's probable you're going to recognize the revenue you should and if it's not you shouldn't when you look at the way the regulator's interpret things of that nature it goes beyond what the intent of general accepted accounting principles say for instance when we accrue revenue on a loan that maybe have a challenge associated with it the regulations for the regulator's that are interpreting that probability threshold say that if you haven't gotten a payment in 90 days you stop accruing revenue unless you're well secured and in the process of collection and that interpretation makes a lot of sense to me if you haven't gotten a payment in three months clearly this loans cash flow is challenged and it's affecting your probability of collection unless you have a lot of collateral you should stop recognizing income but the key comes in to the way regulators interpret and their own regulation because when they say stop recognizing income if you have a delinquency greater than 90 days unless it's well secured and in the process of collection they interpret the term process a collection meaning that I have to show I'll have my money in 30 days well you tell me in the legal world how you can go through a foreclosure and get your money in 30 days even if you're at 25 30 50 percent loan to value it's not possible and yet it's extremely probable that you're going to get all your money back this is why you have small business people that build up a lot of equity and say okay it's time for me to try to start my business I spent your savings for it I got all this equity saved up now I need a loan for cash to buy some things and have working capital and the banks will say no and people look at this and say what are you talking about I'm asking for a $100,000 loan and I've got $250,000 equity in my house how can you not do this and as a common sense approach is I should be doing it I don't have a risk of loss except when a regulator tells you well you can't


recognize any of the income and you know it might take two or three years to work out this loan you've now put this capital out there and you can't recognize income for two or three years till you finish your collection well you can't wait for two or three years to show income now that drives banks away from helping small businesses it drives them away from helping businesses in distress and it does not follow generally accepted accounting principles and you will not get a regulator that will back off of that issue it's just very bad for the economy it's very bad for the country and it's a challenging environment to be in then ask Chuck about an interesting disclosure in his management discussion and analysis for the fiscal year ending September 30th 2016 the difference between management's application of GAAP and the regulators application of the regs is evidence most clearly in a year when the regulator required that all prior payments received as a result of collections from non-accrual loans that had been recorded as interest income should now be reversed and recorded as principal even though the bank's position was well secured the result was a big material difference in the financial statements reported in the bank's call reports versus the financial statements reported to the shareholders Enterprise presented a very transparent description of the differences and the methods that triggered this but I think you'll hear Chuck talk about his ongoing frustration in having to deal with this let's listen no question about I give you example we made a loan to a group who started up in business they didn't have enough to make the full downpayment that gap requires to put something on full accrual but they did make a significant down payment so that we were sure to getting our principal back based on the property that served as collateral and other assets and at least that was our opinion the regulator's opinion was no you know you're not assured so you should be on cost recovery so for three and a half to four years this loan never missed a payment ever four for four years never missed a payment we never recognized one penny of income then in years four when the amount of payments or sufficient gap tells you you can retroactively lis switch back to accrual and all the deferred income comes in in one fell swoop so here you have an in our case this was a large credit this is a two million dollar credit we went for three to four years this client never missed a payment always had profits always look good we couldn't recognize income till the year four and then all the income comes in and one fell swoop from three or four years for this loan you talk about distorting income and creating a problem for shareholders and interpreters of a financial statements to try to understand what was going on it you can't create a better example that better just seems to be no recognition from a regulatory body that that's a bad thing you know they'll all sit there and say oh we're glad the CEO worked out for you and nobody looks back and says well maybe you should be concerned that you've misrepresented the financial information for the last three or four years that doesn't seem to be an issue for them they're just very conservative and they that's that's the way it is you know a lot of people sit out there and say why are bankers so tough on small business and why won't they make the small business loans and you hear all your clients say when I need the money they won't give it to me and when I don't need it they will well this is in fact the driving reason why bankers aren't bad people but they have regulators that they have to deal with and what people don't understand is there is no way for me to get to court to get an independent evaluation that's when a regulator makes this determination your only appeals rights are to the same regulator that made the decision and the only way we can get to court is to refuse to do what the regulator says then when they assess the fines against it can be up to $10,000 a day for each director and senior officer then we have the option to go to court well think about this issue I had with that one credit and how it misrepresented things do you think my directors want to take the risk of a 5 or 10 thousand dollar a day penalty and it takes two years or so to get to court on an issue like that and that's their personal assets that they have to worry about so as a practical matter a bank can't even get to court to get a judge to rule on the thing and override what they're doing so it's a very challenging environment to be in right now yes what's in store for you and enterprise your secretary said you're 60 years old you've got another 15 20 years left in you organic growth acquisition what's the future there um we pretty much have decided on organic growth actually two and a half years ago three years ago stop growth for a few years because we made a decision to let capital grow to prepare for the adjustments for Basel three and now we're going to have to look at again watching what's going to go on with the new Cecil changes and how that's going to affect capital and about the time that we were contemplating what was going to happen with Basel 3 and at one point we thought it wouldn't be effective to the banks at that stage we decided to double our overhead and prepare to double the size the bank so we doubled building size infrastructure everything else as soon as we're done doing that and ready to start kicking in for growth now that we had the infrastructure that we could grow safely and soundly then Basel 3 kicked in and we had to table the growth for a few years till we accumulated capital we kind of finished that up about a year ago and started to grow again and so now our key is to keep growing and bouncing profits and growth because we elevated our overhead intentionally our fixed overhead and now we need to grow into it so that the bottom line builds to where we want it to be what opportunities do you see much as I can sit there and seem negative with regard to regulators it's a great business environment out there and people are always coming up with


new ideas and it's just a lot of fun to be out there helping people work with their dreams and build their their businesses I think the opportunities are endless and we're in an area around Pittsburgh Pennsylvania where it's a very large market and I think our opportunities are whatever we want them to be great and financial services or any service business your key asset go home every day take the elevator home every day how do you tie them up how do you secure them and where are the biggest challenge you have in fulfilling well as I said to you before the relationship managers and that concept of running your own business inside the bank is certainly those risk parameters risk reward parameters are very unique to the banking environment most bankers are not entrepreneurs it's challenging to find people that fit in that consultant relationship manager role but we don't really lose them if we don't want to in this scenario because typically they get there and they have that entrepreneurial Drive and it's hard for them to find out in banking so when they get here it's like they found a great place and they're happy based on the concept so it's pretty easy to satisfy that crew and the senior management group where we have a chief operating officer and operations people and accounting people the assets here are the people they're not the machines are not the equipment these are how to take care of them reward them keep them competitive with the rest of the marketplace and and then make it a fun place to work we have a campus type setting here we have an auditorium here where we put on program and speak to small businesses and they're involved I would gymnasium here daycare center we have soft-serve ice cream and pop and popcorn and so we try to make it a fun environment for everybody that it's something where they look forward to coming to work I worked out well because to be quite honest the senior management group that we've recruited and we've we've really worked at especially the last two or three years developing a transition group as I've gotten older and some others and so you know we're trying to create an environment that's fun for them and it seems to be working because we haven't had any turnover in those areas for the last ten years we're pretty happy with the way things are working out that way and it's basically just taking care of people and creating an environment that's fun to work and terrific Oh Chuck I bet you're an excellent executive that's all I have is there anything else that you want to add life always gives you challenges and you always seem to take a step back but as long as you're routinely taken to forward that's just the way life is and you have to enjoy it for what it is and that's a lot of fun great all right Chuck thank you very much for your time I really enjoyed it best of success going forward very good take care Kelly thank you right we want to thank you for listening to the syndicated audio program Bank Posehn comm the audio content is produced and syndicated by Seth Green market domination with the help of kevin boyle video content is produced by the Guildmaster studio Kenan Bobson boiling voice introduction is made Korean Kroenke the program is hosted by Kelly Coughlin if you liked this program please tell us if you don't please tell us how we can improve it and now some disclaimers Kelly is licensed with the minister to State Board of Accountancy as a certified public accountant the views expressed here are solely those of Kelly cotton and his guests in their private capacity and you're not in any way represent the views of any other agent principal employer employees vendor or supplier New York University School of Law.

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