quote: Originally posted by Phil: OK, that sets out the matter we are considering fairly clearly, and if you've read people like Wilber or listened to his teachings, you'll find the above description and practice to be congruent with what he's saying. This is all in keeping, too, with advaitan mystical approaches such as we find in Hinduism, with Buddhism's "enlightenment," and so forth. To my understanding, there's just nothing in these descriptors or methods that has corollaries in Christian spirituality. <<<<<<< JB responds: What you set forth in the opening post probably does well represent a very vulgar (common) pop-nonduality as has been articulated mostly by western misappropriators of those great traditions and perhaps some fundamentalistic schools within those traditions, so one best look beyond such caricatures to more scholarly engagements for the many corollaries that do indeed present between Christianity & nondualisms of those great eastern traditions! We must be careful, then, in suggesting that the version of nonduality presented in the opening post is in keeping, too, with advaitan mystical approaches such as we find in Hinduism, with Buddhism's "enlightenment" . It may be congruent with some practitioners within those traditions but it doesn't even remotely approach being exhaustive of those traditions. Efforts, here, to dispossess folks of such facile notions are worthwhile but a redirect would also be helpful. Hence, I recommend the following authors: robert cummings neville, amos yong, harold oliver, john thatamanil, francis clooney, david loy, joseph bracken, james miller, john berthrong, steve odin, warren frisina, livia kohn ... Even Wilber self-describes as a panentheist, so his views, which are highly nuanced and idiosyncratic, cannot be easily shoe-horned into others' paradigms. See John Thatamanil's The Immanent Divine and the Human Predicament and/or listen to this very accessible podcast: Religious Pluralism, Nondualism, and Polydoxy with John Thatamanil My own notes and essays also more highly nuance many of the relevant categories and concepts regarding Christianity and nonduality at johnboy's current notes and johnboy's archives. quote: 1
Originally posted by Phil: But one thing is clear, and that is that any experience that we can come to access through a training of our minds is a natural one.
JB responds: Well, with the caveat that not all of us employ the super/natural distinction (but this is beyond the scope of the current consideration but not unrelated).
quote: Originally posted by Phil: As noted on this thread, I believe nondual mysticism gives evidence of the nonreflecting aspect of the human experience: attention prior to reflection on the data of attention. It is what Lonergan calls the first movement or level of consciousness: Being Attentive. And if one can camp out there while shutting down or silencing reflectivity, then one does experience an immediacy of presence of other existents, along with a profound sense of wonder. One is awake to the witnessing aspect of Self, or human consciousness -- that each of us is always "here/now," present to what goes on in the mind and body and the world around us. A question remains concerning the relationship between this nonreflecting, witnessing aspect of human consciousness and God, and I have addressed this many times on many threads and in my book, God, Self and Ego, but will do so again on this thread in the days ahead. Your reflections on all this are welcomed as well, of course.
JB responds: This sounds partly informative but not nearly exhaustive of what is entailed by nonduality. There is much in Eastern nondualism that is deeply resonating with and profoundly illuminating of many aspects of our Christian experience is my view.
rather than engage other traditions only through the prism of orthodoxyheterodoxy, we might also consider a new hermeneutical category polydoxy 2
God as Ground, Contingency and Relation: Trinity, Polydoxy and Religious Diversity by John J. Thatamanil http://depts.drew.edu/tsfac/colloquium/2010/TTCChapter%2013%20-% 20Thatamanil.pdf
This theo-ontological polydoxy is mirrored, I believe, in a theological anthropological polydoxy, specifically in an epistemological polydoxy as I hope to better articulate in my own axiological epistemology as informed by a theology of disability, which celebrates our plurality of valuerealizations (methodologies).