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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

EPISODE #64: LEE LEFEVER SUMMARY: On Episode 61 of ―Diamonds in Your Own Backyard: The Entrepreneurs Radio show,‖ Travis and Sandra are going to be chatting with Lee LeFever, founder of Common Craft and author of the book, ―The Art of Explanation.‖ In the episode, Travis, Sandra and Lee talk about the explainer video industry and what it takes to be able to explain ideas effectively. Lee goes on to share important pointers and valuable tools, as well as his process for creating explanations that people can easily understand and apply on their own.

Lee LeFever – Using explainer videos to increase sales Travis: Sandra: Travis: Sandra: Travis: Sandra:

Hey, it‘s Travis Lane Jenkins. And this is Sandra Champlain. Welcome to Episode Number 64 of the Entrepreneurs Radio Show. Why, thank you. Yes, a production of How are you, Sandra? I‘m great, Travis.

Travis: Why don‘t I say that the network that is produced in this, and then you go, ―Dot com,‖ you know, like the old commercials? Sandra: Travis: Sandra:

Okay, let‘s try it again. A production of rockstarentrepreneurnetwork… Dot com!

Travis: There you go. Listen, our guest today is Lee LeFever. Lee is the founder of Common Craft, whose video explanations have amassed tens of millions of views. It established the explainer video industry.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: He‘s also the author of the new book, ―The Art of Explanation: Making your Ideas, Products, and Services Easier to Understand.‖ Travis: Right, a very, very clever guy. So what were some of the key takeaways that you got from the interview that we just finished? Sandra: Well, basically, I think as entrepreneurs we all want to be successful, and we all care about our customer, and we believe that our product and services would make a difference in the customer‘s life. I think we can all agree upon that. I know for myself—and right now I‘m trying to sell my book to make a difference in people‘s lives –how is the best way to get in touch with them so I can get my information in their hands. From our interview with Lee, I saw what‘s missing in the presentation I just did. He used the word ―recipe‖ of what things have to be in it to make it work, to be able to understand our customer, great ways to do that, how to speak into their listening, that they actually get it and they get why your product or service would make a difference in their life. Travis: You present things from their perspective rather than your own perspective. And so he goes deeper than that. He explains the five—I don‘t know that he actually reached five—but he explained the strategy behind the explainer videos. What everyone likes so much about the explainer videos is that it makes it very easy to understand what your business does, why it matters, and why they should buy your stuff, right? Sandra:


Travis: He explains the top overarching reasons and then the steps or the path that you go down to doing a good job in creating those explainer videos, right? Sandra: Right. And, Travis, you yourself have a great quote: “To know and not do is to not understand.” And what Lee takes us through is how to explain in a way and tell a story that our consumer will understand and will ultimately work with us. Travis: Yes. We‘ve got a lot to talk about and a great show. Before we get started, I want to remind you to be sure and stay with us until the very end if you can because we‘d like to share a little inspiration with you, and we‘ll also reveal who we‘re going to connect you with in the next episode, right? Sandra: Yes, and we really want you to be successful in your life and your business, and there‘s some gold in the end. We just want you to take action and have the results that you want to have in your life.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: If you‘d go to, so, same name as the show and just look for the little iTunes icon. It‘s right there near the top. If you click on that what it‘ll do is it will open iTunes up and take you straight to our show. Then there‘s a section right there, like a button beside the artwork that says Reviews and Rating. If you‘d click on that, leave us a review and rating. Tell us what you think about the show. If you find value in what we‘ve been doing and you feel like it‘s been helping you, it‘ll really help us. iTunes pays a lot of attention to the ratings and to your reviews. It‘ll mean a lot to me and Sandra if you‘d help us reach and instruct more people just like yourself, great entrepreneurs that need a little nudging and a little assistance with taking it to the next level. Then of course in return, I‘ll be glad to read your review on air and personally thank you. We‘d really, really appreciate it. So now that we get that out of the way, I think we‘ve taken up enough time. Let‘s get down to business here. The interview with Lee is such a great interview. So, without further ado, welcome to the show, Lee. Lee: Travis: Sandra: know it.

Thanks. It‘s great to be here. You‘re welcome. Say hello, Sandra. Hello, Lee. Great to have you here. You thought I was going to say, ―Hello, Sandra.‖ I

Travis: Hey, Lee, before we get into what you teach, which is very, very interesting, can you give us a background of how you got to the level of where you‘re at? I mean, were you always successful? Was it a straight up climb? Sandra:

And always creative?

Lee: Well, I think if you looked back on my grades in school, you‘ll see that that‘s not the case. I was not always successful. But I think I did always have an interest in communication. It‘s been a part of me from back when I first discovered the Internet and computers. I‘ve always been interested in how we could use it to be better at communication. That‘s how I got started on the whole Common Craft thing. At school, I got a Master‘s in Health Administration, and started working on a company that was a healthcare software company, and saw the opportunity to use the company website to help the customers work with each other on a message board and learn how they were using the software, and it was an online community program. This was back in about 1999 to 2003. I was the online community manager, the first for that company. I was really just in love and impassioned about the idea of these online communities, and I did that until about 2003 and founded Common Craft in 2003 so that I can

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

work with other companies to understand online communities. This is what we would call social media these days, but back then it was still message boards mainly and Listserv kind of things. As a consultant, I started to realize that the biggest problem that I was facing when I was trying to influence other people was that they lacked a really foundational understanding of lot of the new technologies of that time. That was like blogs, and Wikis, and RSS and things like that. They could use some of the terms, but in terms of a really fundamental understanding of it all, it was missing. I saw this opportunity to start explaining those things in a way that I thought people would understand it. At that time, it was really just blog posts, text. I really liked doing it, but there usually wasn‘t that much interest. But when YouTube took off in 2006, we started—my wife, Sachi, joined the company, and we started thinking about what we can do to ride the YouTube wave. We had this idea of taking those old blog posts, these explanations that I had done a couple of years before, and turning them into videos. I started off being the guy in front of the whiteboard trying to look at the camera and draw at the same time. It was pretty much a miserable failure. My wife, always the problem solver, had the idea of putting the whiteboard on the floor, and pointing the camera down onto the white board, and using hands and markers and pieces of paper to tell a story. I loved the idea, and we whipped one up over course of a month or so. This was in early 2007. We made a video called ―RSS in Plain English,‖ and it was our first video, and it was a viral hit. It was probably one of the most exciting days of my life—was to see this thing that we made do well on YouTube. Travis: that video.

That was a pretty big hit, right? I‘m almost positive that I believe that I‘ve seen

Lee: A lot of people have. Yes, a lot of people have. It solved what I call the RSS explanation problem. RSS is free and mostly easy to use, and there‘s a lot of reasons that it should be popular, and the reason that it wasn‘t is that no one could explain it very well. Travis:

Yes. How viral did that go? I mean, what was the view on it?

Lee: Yes, it‘s got a couple of million views on YouTube now. But at the time, over the first few days is when it kind of really went crazy. It was getting tens of thousands of views a day for the first few days. This was still early days inYouTube when people weren‘t getting 60 million views on a video. Sandra:

Wow, exciting.

Lee: Yes, it was exciting to see at the time. That was the first indication that ―Oh, wow, we actually might be onto something,‖ so we made more videos. Basically since then, since 2007, we‘ve continued to make about a video a month, that, like the RSS videos, are not about a company but an

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idea. We have done custom work, too, but this idea of an explanation and making videos and making media that explains has really become what we do. Now we‘re really focused on helping other people become explainers themselves. Travis: And so 2006 was when it really took off and you were able to start monetizing that way of telling a story? Lee: Yes, it was 2007. The first video was published in April of 2007. It was probably around July when we started to get e-mails from companies saying, ―Hey, can you make one for our product?‖ At the time we were like, ―Yes, of course.‖ Travis:

You bet.

Lee: ―We don‘t know what we‘re doing yet, but sure, we‘ll try!‖ Our second customer was actually the Google Docs team, and we did a video called ―Google Docs in plain English,‖ which you can find on YouTube. It has about 4 million views, I think. It‘s a classic example of Google Docs being something that really needed an explanation, like it sort of lived in this world where people didn‘t know how to think about it. Travis: So in 2006 when this first happened, or right around 2006 or 2007, when this first started going viral, that‘s when you had the ―A-ha!‖ moment that we‘re onto something. Lee: Yes, that was the first indication—was the sort of custom video market. That was when by this late summer, fall of 2007, we stopped doing anything else we were doing and focused everything we were doing just on making videos and pursuing that market. We were making two kinds of videos the whole time, during that time: was videos that were for our library that we really didn‘t know what we‘re going to do with yet, and then custom videos that we were being hired to make. Travis:


Lee: That was really important in our evolution because without really knowing how we were going to monetize this library of videos, they were how we were continuing to stay relevant, I think, by continually explaining things that needed explanations whether there was someone paying us for it or not. That‘s sort of this intellectual property that we‘ve built up over time that, I think, that has made what made us successful. Maybe we‘ll get more into that later. Travis: Yes, basically those explainer videos on a wide range of different, maybe difficult, topics all led to people ultimately coming to you to ask for some type of specialized service, right? Lee: Yes. Yes, definitely. They would see a video that we had made about Wikis or blogs or something and say, ―Man, my product needs that kind of video,‖ and they would contact us. We were

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really lucky for a long time after those first videos. We were getting lots of demand for making videos, and our prices went up. We even created what‘s still around that‘s called the Common Craft Explainer Network, which is a network of producers that handle the incoming demand that we can‘t handle ourselves. Sandra:



Is it a licensing-type thing or just a subcontracting-type thing?

Lee: It‘s sort of a membership kind of network. The members—I guess we have eight members in the Explainer Network right now, and they pay a monthly fee to be listed on the website. Then we don‘t do sort of rev share or anything. It‘s just a monthly fee. Then when people come to our website and want a custom video, we give them links that says, ―Hey, if you need a custom video, go look at these guys.‖ That‘s been around since about 2008 or so. Travis: process?

Now were you the guys to do this first? What was the evolution of this whole

Lee: Yes, we do get credit for being the first or one of the first, and I would qualify that by saying in the YouTube age, people have been using animated videos to explain things forever. We‘ve all seen the ―Bill on Capitol Hill‖ kind of—I think. Sandra:


Lee: There‘s a lot of that. But I think that we were one of the first—of the YouTube era, especially—to say that our intention is to explain. This is an explanation. Then we were one of the first to make a business out of it, at first in the context of being hired to make videos that explain. I think a lot people have come into that market since then. Most that I‘ve talked to referenced the early Common Craft video as being their inspiration. Travis: Well, and of course I understood or I saw this process before I realized who you were. I was in some Masterminds, and I had heard people talk about it. Now I‘d never personally gone out and hired anyone to do this, but I‘d heard several people say that it was pretty big bucks at one time, and then there was some type of transition period in between to where it was much easier to scale. I don‘t know the details. Am I basically getting that right? Lee: Yes, I can tell you about the evolution. We‘ve sort of made custom videos, been hired to make videos for products and services throughout our evolution, but we‘ve reached a point a few years ago where we started getting a lot more demand from educators—so the teachers and trainers and consultants and people like that who wanted to use our existing videos, the videos that are in our

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library, for work type, to do their job. Some we had shared on YouTube, but we stopped using YouTube because we wanted Common Craft, our website, to be the home of our videos and not some other person‘s platform or some other company‘s platform. We saw an opportunity to start licensing our videos to educators of all types. The more we did that, the more we realized that there is a market there for people who are looking for quality content that makes their job easier, and we can give them a system that gives them tools and ways to get to and use the videos that make it worth their while to pay for. So in the early days, what we started doing was sort of à la carte video downloads, where, like iTunes, you put your credit card in and then you can pay for each video you download, and then once you download it, you can use it in your PowerPoint presentation or use it in other ways, show it in a classroom. That worked really well. We started to think that this is actually a better business to be in. The custom videos are great and it‘s a good business, but a couple things were happening for us: the growth of the licensing business and our interest in that. I think the big thing there was that—naturally, Sachi and I want to be educators. A lot of the custom video work is often more promotional than it is educational. It has elements of education, but it‘s still just commercial. And we really wanted to make videos that were really focused on ideas and not products and services necessarily. Secondarily—well, I guess this may be primarily—is that by licensing and offering digital downloads, it‘s a scalable business. Our business could grow without us having to hire people. That‘s really a big part of Common Craft—is that we are two people, and we‘ve always been two people. We like being small. Sandra:

That‘s amazing.

Travis: Yes. That‘s an incredible profit margin also. Basically, the software model is licensing it to a large number of people so you can scale your numbers up without scaling your team up. Lee:

Yes. Or your overhead, yes.

Travis: Right, and all the other headaches that come with those things. So it‘s still just you and your wife doing this? Lee: It is, it is. We work with contractors on web development and things like that, but we don‘t have any employees or assistants. Travis:

Very cool. Jump in, Sandra. I don‘t mean to dominate the conversation.

Sandra: Right. Anyways, well, I think for me, Lee, and also for our listeners, when I went to, it helped me to get a picture in my mind of what it is because I saw your video with

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your wife how you actually did a PowerPoint presentation, printed the slides, cut them out, and then there you were. You colored them in a little, and you put them on the floor or on your whiteboard, whatever, and you shot the camera down. It‘s so cool. I think it‘s really clever. I think your figures, your faces—your people don‘t have faces. You can do so many clever things, and not just the whole video thing but you have a cutout library that people can use for their own use, right? Lee: Yes, that‘s a fairly new thing for us. Over the years, we have obviously made a lot of these cutouts. Sandra:

I bet.

Lee: The images that appear in all of our videos—they‘re are all the same. They‘re our own brand of clip art in some ways. Because we have this new strategy to encourage people to make their own explanations, and even make what‘s known as Common Craft-style explanations in videos, we‘ve started to see that these cutouts were an asset that we could license just like our videos. So now we have membership plans for getting access to download a library of close to a thousand cutouts that you can use for your own presentations and videos. Sandra: Yes. It‘s really cool. I really acknowledge both of you for doing it. And where did your—I mean, maybe you can speculate a little bit. You both have this passion for educating and for explaining. Did that come from somewhere? You both fit in with the same passion. Lee: It‘s a good question. I think that, like a lot of couples, we have different—we come to things from very different perspectives. I think Sachi is much more, I think you say, left-brained. She‘s very detail-oriented and analytical. I‘m more on the creative side and kind of big-ideas kind of person. I think as a team, we actually work better together than we would separately, where I could approach a problem from a big idea and she‘s the one that really shapes it into something that is accounting for all the details and the risks and what might be a problem. So I think it is a combination. But in terms of where it comes from, I don‘t really know. I think that we both just can really quickly see things that don‘t work. Sandra:



That‘s part of it.

Sandra: And your book ―The Art of Explanation‖ it‘s just—so there must be a passion behind things aren‘t explained, there is a… Maybe you could talk to us a little bit about that: what the problem is that you decided,‖ Man, there‘s got to be a book on this.‖

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Lee: Well, I say sometimes that I can‘t really believe that this book wasn‘t written 50 years ago or 100 years ago. This idea of explanation is not new. We‘ve done it since we started communicating as humans. There‘s been elements of this idea. Travis:

On cave walls, right?

Lee: Yes, that‘s right. So it‘s not a new thing at all. One of the fundamental ideas of the book is that it‘s so common, like we explain ideas so often that we never think about it. Excuse me. One of the first chapters of the book—I compare it to this idea of learning to run. I think that it matches, where if you think of someone who is a jogger and they run recreationally but as they get older, maybe their knee starts to hurt or they don‘t have the endurance that they did, then a solution to that problem is actually learning to run better. And there are lots of people out there who can help you run better. That idea might not occur to 95 percent of the runners in the world—that you could actually improve something that seems so natural to you. Everybody runs, right? But I think it‘s the same with explanation, that we do it so often that we don‘t think about the potential to improve and get better at it. I think that it‘s not that hard. That‘s really the biggest thing to overcome—is understanding that explanation is a thing that you can actually develop and become better at. Travis: But why are some people just naturally better storytellers than others? Do you have a perspective or an opinion on that? Lee: I think that part of it is sort of an innate thing. That approach to that question is like asking: why are people different? I think that some people just approach the world differently or maybe have gifts that allow them to be better at it. I think a couple of core things are that explainers are good at empathy. They‘re really good at being able to imagine what it‘s like in someone else‘s shoes, and not only imagining it but thinking about it and shaping their communication for that experience they‘re imagining in someone else‘s shoes. I compare it to or I often say that it‘s like giving driving directions, that people who are good explainers are also probably really good at giving driving directions because it‘s the same kind of skill of forgetting what you know about it and being able to put yourself in the driver‘s seat and imagine that you‘re approaching that location for the first time. Travis: That‘s a great point because it‘s easy to see that you‘ve got to look at it from their perspective. Right now, I‘m saying, ―The parking lot of this location,‖ and I need to give them directions from… I‘ve never really looked at it that way. One of the things that I‘ve noticed and I grew up around several people and I‘m a good storyteller is there‘s a sense of confidence. There‘s a sense of depth of knowledge normally on the topic, and then also some of those other elements that you talk about because there‘s also cadence and other things. There‘s several things coming together at once that are required to tell a story poignantly to where large groups of people or specific groups of people understand exactly what you‘re talking about.

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Lee: Yes. Yes, definitely. I agree. Communication is a really complex thing. I don‘t profess to know a lot necessarily about great presenting and great conversation and things like that. I‘m just trying to pull out this one idea that I want people to ask themselves—yes, you‘re a great presentor; you project well; you have good stage presence; and there‘s all these great things, but one question I‘m worried about is: is it understandable? Is what you‘re saying understandable to people? And that‘s our focus, I guess. Travis: Right. I would guess that the thing that you and your wife have in common is the natural inquisitive nature. Lee:

Yes, I think so.

Travis: I think you look at things and say, ―Why? Why is that there?‖ Well, because I always look—I‘m looking at the story behind the story a lot of times, and so I‘ve always had a natural inquisitive nature. I‘ve got to press that button that you‘re not supposed to press, and I‘ve got to look through that hole. I know these things about myself, and it comes from just having an inquisitive nature. Lee: Travis:

Yes, I think that‘s a good point. You feel like that‘s accurate then for both of you all?

Lee: Yes, I think there is a lot of that. I think we are always looking for that. I think it also relates to wanting to solve problems. I think that a lot of the videos came from this feeling that we both are big believers in technology and we want people to adopt things that are going to improve their lives. We see that communication is one of the biggest problems around that, and we see explanation as a way to solve that problem, like it‘s a solution that a lot of people can—we‘re not the only ones that can do it, but if people think a little bit differently they can actually be explainers, too, and together—I think the world needs more explanation, and that‘s part of what drives us—is it‘s a problem we feel like needs to be solved. Sandra: I have a question, Lee, being the good explainer that you are. It‘s easy for me as a business owner, even in some of the shows we have. I‘m listening. I‘m entertained. I am fascinated by what people do, but I don‘t necessarily bring the conversation into me, in my life. So could you tie in for our listeners of ―Entrepreneurs‖ why it‘s essential to have good explanation skills, good storytelling skills, how, like your example of learning to run, why this conversation would make a difference with them, with all of us, because I‘m not just a business owner? Lee: Yes. Yes, definitely. Well, I think that understanding, which is the product of explanation, is one of those things that build the foundation for everything else. I was recently drafting an article for some time in the future that‘s really focused on marketing and thinking about what‘s needed for a

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marketing campaign to go off to be really successful. There‘s lots of things. I‘m not a marketer myself, but there‘s all the things about differentiation and brand message and marketing—I mean, I‘m sorry, advertising, and all these things. They‘re all really important, but often times the missing element is, like I said before, ―Is it understandable?‖ Because, unless people can really understand the fundamental idea behind the product or service, then those things won‘t matter as much. It‘s this one thing that‘s the foundation of so many other important things that I think makes it important. Sandra: Yes, because we want people to buy our product or services, and they‘re not going to if they don‘t understand it and if we don‘t speak to their listening and know what it‘s like in their shoes. Because ultimately we want customers, we want people, like Travis says, to know, like and trust us, and there‘s a way to do that through explaining and storytelling. Lee: Yes. Yes, definitely. Not every product necessarily fits into that. Working in technology, I think about things that are these big powerful ideas, like cloud computing, big data, crowd funding. Those are three examples of really transformational ideas. And there‘s lots of people building products based on these ideas. I think it‘s really easy to forget, when you‘re building a product, that if you don‘t spend time or find a way to help people understand what it means for something to live in the cloud, then, your cloud-based product might not be as successful or interesting to others without that first understanding of what that means. Sandra: I think it‘s easy too, to feel stupid from my point of view. I don‘t want to say I wasn‘t the smartest kid, but I didn‘t get the greatest grades. I might be successful now, but there‘s still a piece of me that feels like—sometimes Travis uses the big words, and I don‘t know what it means. I don‘t often ask him. I will go look it up. To talk about one of these, whether it‘s RSS or crowd funding or whatever, it might be easier to just, ―Well, that‘s not for me,‖ as opposed to taking the time. I love how you simplify it in your videos, and you make it user-friendly, ―Okay, I can get that,‖ and then there‘s the opportunity that I could use one of those technologies. So think it‘s brilliant. Lee: Thank you. Yes, I think that our goal is not necessarily to show someone how to do something. Our goal is to explain it to them in a way that makes them care about it because if someone can care about something, they‘re more likely to take the time to figure out how to use it or to learn more about the details. Sandra: Lee: information. Sandra:

I like that. Right, One of the things I say sometimes is that it hopefully makes people a customer of that

I like that.

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Lee: That idea came from a guy named Jay Rosen who is an NYU journalism professor. He wrote, a while back, a thing about explainers in the news. At the time, it was right during the mortgage crisis in 2008. He didn‘t know enough to be interested in the mortgage crisis. It was too big of a complex thing to think about. But he listened to a podcast that was on ―This AmericanLife‖ called ―The Giant Pool of Money.‖ The people that did it went on to do the ―Planet Money‖ podcast. This one-hour segment really explained to him all the working parts. He suddenly saw everything in context. He said, coming out of that podcast, he became a customer of that news. Whenever he saw news about it, he would automatically read it because he knew that he had a level of understanding that allowed him to get something from learning more. I think that‘s our goal with the videos, and it should be the goal of a lot of explanations—is to make people customers of the information that we‘re trying to provide so that they‘re primed to learn more in the future and be interested. Sandra: And I think if they have that understanding and they are caring, it can actually promote new thoughts and new ideas and new creativity, right? Lee:

Yes, definitely.

Travis: Take you down a whole a new path. There‘s an old saying: “To know and not do is to not understand.” To both of your points, when someone tells you something and you really don‘t understand it, then rather than noodling on it and trying to figure it out, most people just move on to the next thing. Why set such a high bar for your potential clients to have to cross in order for them to do business? I get frustrated at times. I go to the airport and they talk to me in the airport as if I‘m an employee in the airport. Sandra:

What do you mean?

Travis: Well, they speak to me in acronyms as if I should know different parts of the airport. I do fly a lot, but I don‘t know the place like the back of my hand. They‘re looking at me with contempt if I don‘t instantly understand what they‘re talking about. It kind of pisses me off since I‘m a paying customer. I see that mistake a lot that people have these esoteric acronyms within their business that they turn around and starting pointing towards their clients, and I think because everyone within the company understands that lingo, that they forget that nobody else understands it, and it just becomes a bunch of confusing dribble. Lee: Yes, I think that it‘s really true. One of the ideas that frames that is this idea of the curse of knowledge. I wrote about it in the book, but the idea I really learned about from a book called “Made to Stick” by Chip and Dan Heath, and the idea of the curse of knowledge is the more you know about the subject, the harder it becomes to imagine what it‘s like not to know. You kind of live in this bubble where everybody knows these acronyms; everybody knows what they‘re talking about, but then when

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you step outside the bubble, you forget to adjust your language or forget that people don‘t understand what they do in every other part of your life. It causes us problems. It causes people to make incorrect assumptions about the knowledge of others. I think that‘s what makes explanations fail a lot of times since we‘re assuming people know something when they really don‘t. Travis: Right. Well, I‘ve made that mistake for probably the first 7 to 10 years of my business. I‘ve owned a construction company for 22 years. I own a few different businesses. And I just sales naturally has come to me. I was born in it. And so for the first 10 years, until I started working on growing my knowledge, growing myself, growing every aspect of myself from business and personal, I thought that everybody could sell, and if you went out and didn‘t sell anything, what‘s wrong with you? Come on, this is a simple step. What‘s wrong? I was at stage 3 of confidence, so I knew how to do something but I didn‘t know how to teach it. As the competence grew and I went to stage 4, which I knew how to do something—I knew how to do sales—and I know how to teach it, I became aware that sales is not natural for everybody. And so, I lived in that bubble of ignorance for many, many years, and it really confounded me and prevented me from growing my business until I got over that hump. Lee: Yes, I think that‘s a great example. People would say that about explanation, right? Everybody explains. What‘s the matter? Why can‘t you explain something? It‘s something we‘re born with. But it‘s just not the case. Travis: What if you were to create, say, like a top five things that you should do, to create a great explainer list, and maybe the top five things that people do wrong, would I be putting you on the spot too much to ask of that, or can you whip it out that easily? Lee: Travis:

I can probably whip it out fairly easily. Let‘s see what you‘ve got. I‘ll handle the counting.

Lee: Yes, sure. Sure, if you could just give me… Through the book and what I do, there‘s a lot of speaking where I kind of go through a number of things that I think really contribute to good explanations. It sort of goes in a process. We‘ll start with maybe how to approach the idea of creating an explanation. Travis:


Lee: I talk about explanation as being a way to package ideas. They have a beginning and end, and there‘s this package that becomes the minute you practice and that you can present in a number of different ways as a solution to a problem. That‘s what our videos are. We take something like Plagiarism, which is a video we did a while back, and say, ―How do we package the ideas of plagiarism into a package with a beginning and end that solves the problem?‖ I think that it doesn‘t

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have to be a video. It can be anything. The way we approached it is to start by thinking about confidence and what‘s going to bring people into this idea, feeling confident. We make some, ―We can all agree‖ kind of statements to set the stage.‖ We can all agree that it‘s been a cold winter or that computers are valuable business productivity tools,‖ or whatever it is, and then establishes a sense of context where I think people sort of gets into the why-explanations-fail idea: that people often forget to build context. They go directly into the details and just start going through a bullet list of how to do something or how to understand something. I think it‘s really important to take a step back. I always say this: to talk about the forest first, and then talk about the trees. That means focus on the world around your ideas and not your ideas first so that people can see things in context for the rest of the explanation. The idea of building context is a really big idea. Then there‘s some things that we use that are really important in explanations, one of which is this idea of story. When I say story, I think it‘s natural to think about this story art where there‘s a hero on a journey that saves a damsel in distress and all those kinds of stuff, and those are really great stories, but I think that there‘s another way to think about a story, which is simply following a character who solves a problem. We don‘t need to know about the relationship with their mom or anything. And I say this about our videos. They follow this basic story kind of outline: ―Meet Bob. He‘s a lot like you. Bob has a problem. He feels bad. Look, Bob found the solution. Now he feels great. Don‘t you want to feel like Bob?‖ That basic kind of story outline is enough to introduce a character who is solving a problem that hopefully people in the audience can empathize with and say, ―I know that feeling.‖ Then we just follow Bob or this character through the process of learning about the solution. That‘s how we approach this idea of story. Another idea is connections. This is often like an analogy, saying, ―X is like Y.‖ We can all assume that everybody understands X. Well, if you understand X, then Y is like it in these ways. That just creates a foundation for taking that next step towards understanding something they don‘t understand. We just released a video yesterday that explains pixels—I should say, ―Digital Image, Resolution and Pixels.‖ Our members have a way inside our website to suggest and vote on video titles, and this is one that they suggested. It really comes down to this idea of people not understanding why they can‘t take a picture on their phone with the small image size and then blow it up and put it on their wall. They just don‘t understand how pixels work. So we made a video that hopefully solves that problem, and we used an analogy of thinking about a photo like a blanket, where that blanket was only made with so much yarn. That means that if you stretch it, eventually it starts looking like a net because that yarn can only go so far, so you‘d need more yarn to be able to stretch that blanket for it to continue to keep you warm. Well, pixels are the same way. You need more pixels to be able to stretch an image—kind of a thing. Everybody knows a blanket. They can imagine yarn and a blanket, and that‘s how we used that connection to pixels.

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Travis: Okay. And so let me make sure that I‘m tracking this right. It has a beginning and an end that solves a problem, and so that‘s number 1? Lee:

Well, that‘s kind of the big idea, the big sort of context, I think, yes. Okay. Okay, so that‘s the big overarching…

Travis: Lee:


Travis: Lee:

And then set the context? Yes.

Travis: solves a problem? Lee:

Okay. Set the context of the story in the story. Number 2 is follow a character that


Travis: I was worried that I blurred the lines here. And then connects—is X is like Y or, you know, an analogy so that it‘s easier to understand. So I‘m tracking you so far? Three? Lee: Travis:

Yes, that‘s pretty good. That‘s good. Okay, good to know.

Lee: I don‘t mean to say that, you know—after you build context, the next step is definitely to tell a story. I think that starting with building context is a great way to start, but every explanation is different. Travis:

Just a general rule of thumb.

Lee: Yes, just the general idea is to consider the potential to tell a story. Consider the potential to make a connection to something that someone already knows. Travis:

Yes, definitely makes sense. Okay.

Lee: Yes. Then, I think that there‘s little bit more in terms of as—if you assume that someone doesn‘t need a lot of context, that they already know why the subject matters, then this idea of what we call description, which is just being a little bit more oriented around here‘s how you do something. An example was we made a video about web browsers. We need to talk about why web browsers matter. We can assume that most people have used a web browser if they‘re watching an online video. Travis:


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Lee: So the video is more about how do you get the most out of a web browser? And that‘s more a description of things like tab, like why do tabs matter? Travis:

So no need to set the context because obviously they‘re already there, right?

Lee: Yes. Yes, definitely. But even then still we focus on this question of why versus how. That‘s an overarching idea, too—is a lot of explanations go from beginning to end, from why to how. Why does this matter, and how does this work? Travis:

Okay, okay.

Lee: One of ways that I think about that in terms of the description is if you think about a recipe, like for baking a cake or something, its one thing to be able to follow the recipe, which is great, and to make a cake. And if you follow it, it usually comes out right. That‘s great. But if you‘re able to learn along the way why you used baking powder, what role it plays in the process, then that recipe becomes a different thing. It becomes a starting point for your own recipe so that you can take that information and do something else with it. I think that‘s the role of explanation. It‘s not just saying, ―Click here. Do this,‖ but talking to people about why you‘re doing that, why it matters to do that, so that they can apply that information outside of this one-recipe-like place. Travis: Lee: Travis: Lee:

I have a hard time of listening to how if I don‘t know the why. Yes, sort of like without a foundation or without any way to apply it. Because I‘m busy having a conversation with myself. Yes, totally.

Travis: Like, ―Well, why are they giving me directions here?‖ I‘ve just got all these questions, and so I can‘t focus. But if they say, ―Travis, you‘re going here, and then this is how you get there,‖ it frees me up to be present with exactly what‘s being said. Lee: Travis: Lee: Travis:

Yes. Yes, definitely. I would agree. Okay, good deal. So we‘re at three. Hopefully, I‘m not messing up your flow. No, that‘s fine. It‘s fine. If you go over five, then feel free. No penalty.

Lee: No, that‘s fine. I think that those are some of the big ideas for the need of the explanation or tools you can use to increase understanding—is to think about story connections,

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descriptions. But then I think, looking at the end of the explanation, I think there‘s often an opportunity to provide a call to action. Hopefully, your explanation is building to something that you want people to do or to understand. There might be an opportunity to say, ―Okay, now that we‘ve talked about this, here‘s where you learn more; here‘s where you sign up; here‘s where you tell a friend,‖ whatever it is to give them an action to do at the end to keep going. Travis: What do you see…? And this is a great formula here, by the way. What do see that most people drop the ball on? What‘s the common mistake that most people make whenever they‘re trying to do this? Lee: I think that curse of knowledge thing is a really big idea. They might not see that they‘re confusing people because the words sound so natural to them. The product of that is this assumption: Making incorrect assumptions about the audience, and it‘s really hard. It‘s a really hard problem to solve because—I‘m talking to you guys right now, because I don‘t have a longer-term relationship with you, I don‘t know what you know. So I have to make on-the-fly decisions about how I present ideas so that I can be sure that you understand. I don‘t think everyone necessarily does that or maybe they‘re busy. They just don‘t have time to think through that, and things are just happening in a stream of consciousness that makes it hard to adjust for that kind of thing. In terms of thinking about what can make an explanation fail, I think that a symptom or—I guess it‘s not a symptom, but one of the big themes I always talk about is confidence. As soon as someone loses confidence that you‘re talking a language that they can understand or that this is an idea that they can grasp, you‘ve lost them. Travis: Lee: Travis:

They check out. They check out. Right.

Lee: And that should be your goal as an explainer—is to think about how you‘re presenting an idea and always thinking about, ―Is this going to build confidence,‖ or, ―Is this going to take confidence away?‖ I think what happens, what causes confidence to wane sometimes, is when things sound great and then someone throws in a foreign word or a foreign idea with no context, and it‘s like this huge— the steps are small and good; everybody can do these steps, and there‘s suddenly this giant step that people have to get over to keep going. And the presenter may have no idea it‘s even a step, but it‘s all about breaking down those steps and making the explanations slowly build step by step and cutting down those big jumps, these big leaps, that might make people lose confidence and tune out. Travis:

Just like what Sandra said, ―I do.‖

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Sandra: Well, it‘s funny because when I first started writing my book, it went through the editing process. The editor changed some of my words to big words that even I didn‘t get. And I thought, ―This is going to stop somebody,‖ and then again because we‘re human beings here with, ―I don‘t understand that,‖ and tune it out and probably not go to the next chapter. Talk about losing confidence fast. And I thought I‘ll take that word right out. So it goes the same way. Lee: Sandra:

You‘re the author. Sure. It goes the same way with this and any…

Lee: Yes, definitely. One of the ways I talk about in the book is: if you‘re looking at a menu and you see a lot of dishes that you recognize, the one that, I would imagine for most people—if they see a dish that has some ingredients that they‘ve never heard of, they‘re probably not going to be very likely to be interested in it. Sandra:


Lee: That‘s like you don‘t have confidence, ―I don‘t have confidence that I‘m going to like that because I don‘t recognize those words.‖ It‘s the same kind of thing. Travis: That‘s a very simplified way of looking at it. Great way of explaining that. Imagine that. You eloquently explaining such. Lee:

I‘ve got some practice.

Travis: Yes. Yes, you‘ve had a little bit of practice. Now I don‘t want to cross a line. Do you share what point you guys have reached in revenue? How big have you grown the business? Or do you keep that private? Lee: Yes, we keep it private. Our videos, we have members in over 50 countries. Our membership numbers are north of a thousand. I feel like that we have spent a lot of time investing in our platform, in our content, and we haven‘t spent a lot of time marketing. I feel like we‘re just now getting to the point where our platform is really ready to grow, if you know what I mean. That‘s something we‘re really excited about over the next couple of years. Travis: What‘s been some of the ‗aha!‘ moment for you as an entrepreneur in this growth process? You‘re right at the ten-year mark. What were some of the paradigm shifts for you that allowed you to get of your own way and start growing this thing? Lee: Yes, that‘s a good point. Looking back, gosh, ten years, I think, starting to make videos was obviously a big ‗aha!‘ moment. But even within that, I think that the idea of licensing videos was

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something that was really—something we‘ve always felt strongly about, that is a little bit of a disruptive idea or a lesser recognized idea because if you look at YouTube videos, for instance, they don‘t operate that much differently than TV. They‘re advertising based. Just like any media company, they make money on advertising by showing something on the screen that people are interested in, and then showing advertising to those people, and some of them click and then money changes hands. That‘s the mental model that everybody has for video. It‘s free. They‘re showing me advertising. This is just like TV. I think, actually, a lot of viral videos and stuff, it‘s a perfect fit. Music videos, I think that‘s a decent fit. But for our videos and I think a lot of other videos out there, they actually operate with a different kind of value. The idea of licensing videos as digital content was a big ‗aha!‘ for us that there is something here, like we don‘t have to operate in this advertising world or the custom video world, that people want have to pay for good content especially if it solves a problem and helps them do their job better. That was something that we realized a few years ago that still today is something that we believe has a lot of potential in the future. Travis: Lee:

Yes, I think—I agree with you. John Q. Public may expect your videos for free. Sure, yes.

Travis: But I believe entrepreneurs get it, and they understand the importance of being able to, ―Well, I want John Q. Public to understand what a podcast is so that they subscribe to my podcast.‖ That would be one example, right? Lee:

Yes, sure.

Travis: So as a business owner, I understand that there‘s a little bit of cost that goes with simplifying. I can try to come up with something myself, or I can just buy the solution to the problem over there for relatively inexpensive. So I think that entrepreneurs themselves get what you‘re doing and understand the value, and that‘s your target anyways, right? Lee: Well, entrepreneurs is a part of it. I think some of them see the opportunity to use the videos to explain their products, but our big market for licensing is really teachers and trainers and consultants and people whose job it is to introduce people to new technology, for instance. Travis:


Lee: They‘re the ones who are standing in front of a group of people who have a whole day planned around social media, and they‘re going to show 5 Common Craft videos that introduce the main fundamental ideas around social networking, RSS, Wikis, blogs, whatever else it is, Twitter, that kind of thing.

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And also corporations—we have a number of Fortune 500 companies that are members because they have internal teams who are devoted to educating employees, and they need videos to help employees understand these same kind of technologies. That‘s really our market—is the teacher and trainer market who uses videos for educating. Travis: Lee:

It‘s tough to go after B-to-B markets also—or it‘s not as easy. Let me rephrase it. Yes. Sure.

Travis: It‘s not that easy. If you go business to consumer, it‘s an easier sale. It‘s a much more traveled road, much more difficult road to get around B-to-B. Lee: That‘s true. This is a little bit of an ‗aha!‘ too. When we stopped using YouTube, I mentioned that earlier that we wanted Common Craft to be the home of our videos. That meant that we wanted to show the videos for free, that we wanted people to watch them because that was an important way for us to build word-of-mouth marketing. You want people to be able to watch a video and then tell someone or have a brand experience with Common Craft. So what we did was use a stock photography model which allowed us to show the videos for free to consumers but with a watermark that says ―For evaluation only.‖ You can watch the videos for free—our entire library is available for free—but if you‘re a professional trainer who‘s working inside of a corporation, let‘s say, you‘re not going to show a video that says ―For evaluation only‖ on it. It‘s like stock photography. You can look at the picture, but you‘re not going to put it in your magazine. That‘s how we give it to consumers and sell it to businesses. Travis: I like. We‘re getting close on time. There‘s a lot more we could talk about here, but we‘re getting short on time, so I think we need to transition to the lightning round. Sandra, do you want to handle the lightning round this time? Sandra: Travis: Sandra: Travis: Lee:

I do not, Travis. I love when you do it. Why not? Why don‘t we reverse roles today? No, next interview, I‘d do that. You put me on the spot. Well, I guess the big question is, are you ready, Lee? Yes, I‘m ready.

Travis: All right. I figured you‘d say that. So which book or program made an impact on you related to business that you‘d recommend and why?

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Lee: I mentioned it earlier, but one of the books that I read right when we started making the videos was the book “Made to Stick” by Chip and Dan Heath. They have had a couple of follow-up books. The new one is out now. That book really isn‘t about explanations so much, but it‘s about, ―What does it take for an idea to stick?‖ What are the elements of it? They go through. They have an acronym, and they go through the principles. It really opened my eyes to a lot of things. Really, I recommend that book everywhere I go. It‘s just a really great book. Travis: Yes, I‘ve read it, and I agree with you. It is a great book. What‘s one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that you‘ve recently discovered, if any, that you‘d recommend to other business owners and why? Lee: Yes, I think for business owners that depend a lot on their websites, one of the tools that I‘ve been most excited about is called Optimizely. It‘s just one of a class of systems that enable A/B testing. I‘ll give you an example of how it works. Just today, I was looking at it. Our goal with our website is to offer people who are visitors a number of different things: to become a member or do other things and one of those is to hire one of the members of our Explainer Network. So around our website, we have little pieces of text that say things like, ―Need a custom video?‖ or whatever. So when they click that, they go to the Explainer Network. So, Optimizely makes it really easy to go in and create different versions of pages that are exactly the same but that one word or invitation has different texts, and they make it easy to change that text. You can randomly show different page types to people and see what wording actually works the best. Travis:


Lee: Right now, there is one phrase—right now, the standard one just says, ―Need a custom video?‖ But the one that‘s winning right now in terms of conversions says, ―Looking for a video on a different subject,‖ I think, it is what it is. But it‘s doing 225 percent better than our original wording. You can apply this to everything on your site where you can hone in on exactly what words work the best through data. Travis: Lee: Travis:

So it‘s basically a simplified version of multivariate testing, isn‘t it? It is, it is. It is, basically. Yes, A/B testing is just this and that, but multivariate is several components.

Lee: You can do that. It does simple A/B, as well as multivariate. It really works. I‘m so fascinated with it because its real data based on real users to your website. You just drop a little bit of JavaScript into your website, and the interface takes care of everything. You don‘t have to get into the code to change the text or some basic design stuff.

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Travis: Lee:

Yes, its incredible how much simpler things are becoming, right? Yes. I really like it. I‘m going to be using it for a while, I think.

Travis: Lee: Travis:

Thanks for that recommendation. Yes. What famous quote would summarize your belief or your attitude in business?

Lee: Yes, as a communicator, my quote is very communication-related. It‘s a quote from George Bernard Shaw, and it is that: “The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” Travis:

That‘s one of my favorite quotes.


That‘s good.

Travis: I heard that on one of my favorite shows. I forget the name of it now. Say that one more time because that‘s a brilliant quote. Lee:

“The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.”


Right, right.


It‘s great.

Travis: It‘s taken me years to come to that conclusion. I‘ve always been baffled how I can hold a meeting with, say, 40 people, and everybody come—well, not everybody, but, say, the group of people come away with 5 or 6 different meanings of what the meeting was. Lee: Travis: Lee:

Yes, definitely. Sure, sure. And some of them are nowhere even remotely close. Yes. It‘s like watching a movie, too. Everybody takes their own things from it, I think, too.

Travis: Yes. Yes, exactly. So now those are three questions that I let you plan for, get ready for. One surprise one is: do you have any super powers that you‘d like to share with us? Lee: Travis:

Oh, man, do I have any super powers? If you‘re not comfortable sharing it with us, that‘s okay.

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Lee: This is going to be the kind of thing where as soon as we‘re off the phone, I‘m going to think of something. Travis: Lee: Travis:

Yes, you‘re going to think of something brilliant. There‘s nothing that really… That you‘re comfortable with saying, right now.

Lee: Well, it‘s not that. It‘s just that I don‘t consider myself super in those kinds of ways. I think I am a little bit of a dog whisperer. I can get along with dogs and talk to dogs in a way that they understand, I think. Travis: Lee?

That‘s a cool skill. Hey, so what the best way for people to connect with you,

Lee: Well, is our website. I‘m a big user of Twitter. I‘m leelefever, my name on Twitter and virtually everywhere: Instagram, Twitter, all the places. I‘m just my name: leelefever. Travis: Cool, we‘re going to post all of those up, and that way everybody can just go to the show and click on them. I really want to thank you for taking time out and coming to hang out with me and my good friend here, Sandra. You are a genius, my friend. Lee:

I appreciate that. It‘s been great. Thanks for the time.

Sandra: Well, Lee, I want to thank you, too, because, first of all, I downloaded your book on Kindle a couple of hours before we started this: ―The Art of Explanation: Making your Ideas, Products and Services Easier to Understand‖ and just what I got out of this interview personally is, before this show, for our listener, I had done my first public speaking event about my book, and there were stuff missing. I wanted people rush to the back of the room and everybody buy my book. It didn‘t happen. Certainly, people left entertained, big hugs, a few people bought the book. And I really see that for me, I made an assumption about the audience, you know, so I got that out of this interview with you, of what they needed. I‘m not really clear what they came for. I thought I knew. Then I love how it‘s important in the beginning to use common language, like, ―We can all agree that…‖ and build the context for the event. Share with them what the forest is before I get to the particulars. And I really see there was no call to action. Well, no wonder they didn‘t go flocking to the back. Lee:

That‘s great.

Sandra: So whether it‘s me selling a book or our listener who‘s got some great product or service, we‘re all connected that we care about our consumers, our customers. I mean, it really is

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based on caring. That‘s why we‘re selling. That‘s why we want to make a difference. And so a giant thank you from me personally so that now on interviews and radio shows and TV shows, I can put those elements in. Thank you for creating that framework, giving me that recipe, and I‘ll use it. Lee:

You‘re very welcome, Sandra. You‘re very welcome. Thanks so much for the kind words.

Travis: Lee:

Cool, can you hang out for a couple of more minutes, Lee? Yes.

Travis: Al right.Well, listen, guys. I want to remind you that you can go to get the links to the books and the resources and connect with Lee. Go to the Entrepreneurs Radio Show, so it‘s I don‘t know if you‘re anything like me, if you have a problem spelling entrepreneurs—no matter how many times I spell it, I still spell it wrong—but type in the Entrepreneurs Radio Show. And then remember that we‘ve just set up a section to where there‘s a little microphone, and it says, ―Leave a message.‖ It‘s on the right side of the screen. I want you to click on that and give me: your name; give me your business type and what type of problems that you‘re having with your business; what do you need clarity with or help with; what‘s keeping you from growing and finding that next level of success that will allow you to reach your true potential and really make a difference with everybody within your circle of influence? Think about it. Are you struggling with marketing, staffing, sales, profits? It really doesn‘t matter. Any aspect of business or even if you just want to ask me or Sandra a question, you‘ll be able to just leave a voicemail, and then what we‘ll do is, as those build up, we‘ll select some of the best ones that we feel like are instructive for everybody listening, and we‘ll start answering those while we‘re on the air. Take some time out and get some free consulting on your business to help you grow and help others in the process. Also, while you‘re there, enter your name, and we‘ll send you the ―2013 Business Owner‘s Guide to a Profitable Million-Dollar Business.‖ It‘s a candid behind-the-scenes look at what you need to know to grow your business to incredible levels of success. In the guide, we‘ll cover the six most common misconceptions that cost most businesses a fortune in this economy, the five skills that will determine the success of your business over the next eighteen months, and lots more great information for taking your business to the next level. Right, Sandra? Sandra:

Right, Travis.

Travis: Now one of the things I want to close the show with is by basically asking you a question, and the question is this: have you set goals for yourself and your business? Now it may seem like a silly question, but writing down your goals and being crystal clear about all the details of your

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goals are a critical part of success. In order to hit a target, you‘ve got to see a target. So take a minute, spend some time alone and get crystal clear on what you really, really want. And then I also want to remind you that no matter where you are at as an entrepreneur or what size your business is, you are an inspiration to those around you to go after their dreams to. So keep it up. Our quote for the day comes from the brilliant Alfred A. Montapert. I probably destroyed his last name. Anyways, the quote reads: “All lasting business is built on friendship.” Sandra:

Aw, I like it.

Travis: In the next episode, we‘re going to connect you with rock-star entrepreneur, Laura Betterly. She is the founder of Mobile Local Fusion. It‘s basically a marketing course designed to teach the basics of local and mobile marketing, plus she teaches a lot of other things that are very interesting and useful for growing your business. So that‘s basically all I have for today. Sandra, you want to say good-bye? Sandra: I do. I‘m left with a big smile on my face. This is just one great interview. Thanks, Lee. Thanks, Travis. For our listener and for all of us, take some action in your life today. Go out and plan that goal, and take some action. Thanks for being here today. Right. Lee, you‘re a rock-star, my friend.

Travis: Lee:


Travis: care. Sandra:

This is Travis Lane Jenkins, signing off for now. To your incredible success! Take

All right. Bye-bye, everybody.

Travis: Lee:

Bye. Bye.

End of Interview

Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‘s Radio Show

Page 25 of 26

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many ―so called gurus‖ are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That‘s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it‘s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you‘re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn‘t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.

Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‘s Radio Show

Page 26 of 26

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