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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

EPISODE #12: KENNETH CHRISTIAN Intro: You’re listening to Diamonds in Your Own Backyard, the business owner’s guide to success, inspiration, and community. Where each week you will hear fellow business owners share their inspirational stories, strategies and moments of clarity that help them find success. And now here is your host Travis Lane Jenkins and Sandra Champlain.

Kenneth W. Christian Travis: Hey, it’s Travis Lane Jenkins. Sandra: And this is Sandra Champlain. And we’d like to welcome you to Diamonds in your own backyard. How are you Travis? Travis: Hi Sandra. How are you? Sandra: I am doing pretty well. I had an interesting 24 hours; I had a great telephone conference with my publishers for the very first time. And I have every bit of nerve with me because it’s the first time anybody has read my book besides my editor and the layout designer. So everything was going through my mind, is it good enough, are they going to like it, oh I tell you, I’m my own worst enemy. Travis: Oh, I know you are, that’s a terrible tendency that we all have. So how did it go? How did the call go? Sandra: They love it, they love every single bit. They thought the whole thing is put together masterfully and they are putting a rush on the book, it will be ready in three weeks, so that the world can get the message. So every bit of that so valuable just within me. It’s really, really good book so I’m owning that and I am excited really excited. Travis: Wonderful, we are gradually working on quieting that little negative voice, aren’t we? Hey, remind us what the name of that book is, it’s a great title? Sandra: Oh my book it is called “We Don’t Die, A Skeptic’s Discovery of Life after Death.” Travis: That is a wonderful title and subtitle.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Thanks. Travis: We have talked about setting up a place to where our listeners can request a personalize copy from you. Are you ready to move forward with that? Do you want that set up in Travisandsandra.com? Sandra: Absolutely, yes I will, yeah. Travis: Great, great. Sandra: Let’s talk about that after the show. Hey, can we introduce our guest because he rides along with my inner battle in my mind. We have today as our guest, Dr. Ken Christian. Ken is a licensed psychologist, who stands over the last 20 years helping adults, organizations and he has got a real passion for helping children who passed their limitations and reach their maximum potential. He works with kids and adults and organizations for fear of success, fear of failures, under achievement. He is an author; he has published a book called “Your Own Worst Enemy, Breaking the Habit of Adult Underachievement” and Travis it is translated into five different languages. He has also got a second book, “An Invitation to Personal Change,” he has worked and cited in Psychology Today, he has been a university professor, he is a speaker, he is a program developer, a leader, he is a mentor, he is just an all-around, really extraordinary individual out to impact lives of so many people. Travis: Wow! Sandra: So it is my pleasure to introduce to you and our audience, Dr. Ken Christian. Sandra: Hi Ken. Travis: Hi Ken. Ken: Wow! What a build up! I love that! I thought I want to meet this guy. He sounds good. Sandra: Pretty awesome, isn’t he? Travis: It’s all you Ken. Ken: It’s great to be here, thank you so much. I got to say on the line this time and I was having a hard time containing myself when you are talking about your book Sandra, I was just, Oh man I had to stick a sock in my mouth because I wanted today, wow, good for you.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Thank you. Travis: And I have read the book and it’s an incredible book. Ken: Well, I’m sure it is, I mean with the title like that and a topic like that. And for that to really be dealt with all the stuff that’s kind of then around about this after death experiences but I can’t wait to read it either. Travis: Right. Sandra: Oh, thanks Ken. And not just that it’s like I covered grief which I know you know a lot about as a psychologist but it’s a conversation that we are not taught, so I put people in and give them some really great information about life after death, but I also educate them on the grieving process and how to get back to into life. So it’s a neat book and I am very proud of it. Ken: Well good and that make it have more legs and more substance that you do with the fuller sort of a larger picture. Travis: Yeah, yeah. good stuff. Hey, do you mind if we segue into Ken real quick? Sandra: No, I’m happy. Travis: Okay, great. So Ken our listeners are business owners, and I wanted to kind of give you the floor and really let you take in any direction you want to talk about in relation to your business because a couple of things I wanted you to give a little bit more of a background of your business, and of course the name of the show is Diamonds in Your Own Backyard. And so what was the moment of clarity or a turning point in your business where that completely shifted either your attitude, your business or the success of your business? Ken: Wow, great okay. You want me to start right there? Travis: Yeah, yeah. Just tell us what are you passionate about your business right now? Ken: Well, right now I’m sort of returning to sort of my first love and to that passionate moment when I had the big epiphany, I was in private practice and had a great practice, I had a long waiting list and it

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

was very enjoyable. And with anything for me, I will love to find new ways to extend what I am doing and so on. My business is financially secure and things really going really well. Travis: Right. Ken: And then in came this family to see me that started talking about their child, who had tremendous intellectual gift and was failing in school getting straight D’s as a sophomore in high school and they were just absolutely beside themselves and even on the phone before they ever came to see me. The tension, actually just the puzzlement and the worry was so palpable. I felt the pain that they were feeling because they didn’t know what to do. And the kid anything they tried wasn’t working. What happened was I made some realization while I was with them about the way they were actually communicating to their child about school, that I then later I realize were things that I have heard before, I wound up eventually writing a book about adult and underachievers. And in that book I talked about the way we limit ourselves by the way we talk to ourselves but also just the way we put our reality together, about where were you are as people in the world, where were you are in relation to our business, in relation to the market. And what I came to discover and feel so strong and I know within myself as well but almost everybody I have ever met nearly no one says they are doing everything they could for their potential. And most of them if they talk a little while they realize that they are the ones who put the brakes on, they are on their own worst enemy, they stop themselves. That one epiphany about this child and the way the parents were talking about school and achievement to have, led to a great change in my business and a project that I run for ten years before I wrote my book about adult underachievers. In fact, it was a success of my work with kids that led to my being on a radio program on KQDFM and affiliate in San Francisco and that led to my working with adults because on the very first time I was on and talking to parents about kids and adult called in and said I was that kid, can you help me? It actually gives me goose bumps every time I talk about it but that then led to working with adults that then led to the book that I published with Mr. Collins and it had a great run but that if you talk about one an epiphany. There can be a moment when you simply see things in different way. I simply shifted my focus and went from working with kids, families, a big combination to working just on the issue of underachievement for the last 20 plus years. Travis: Let me ask from the opposite side to make sure that I am getting a good grasp of this, when you say underachievers, are you only talking about lazy people or are we talking about people could this be business owners getting in their own way? Ken: It could sure be business owners getting in their own way, for sure, for sure, for sure. That’s really the biggest issue that I think this how displays out as adults. With kids what’s going on is, they start testing the waters with all kinds of things without new freedom moving towards adolescence. And one

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

of the things they will do is they get little bored with school and they would balked at their schoolwork and push a little bit. Really none of them are lazy because they are searchers and hungry for things, they just want to do their own thing. And the parents don’t tell them specifically that school work is their main focus and they must do well at it then they will drift away and do other kinds of things like they online a lot, text their little thumbs and fingers away. Travis: Right. Ken: So there is a connection to what I learn but no more than a business owner who is the biggest issue is fear of failure. There is nothing that stops achieving more than being afraid that if you stop out there is no net underneath to catch you. Travis: Right. Ken: And yet everybody in business has to take risks. So if you go in the entrepreneurial route risk is a part of the package and it makes sense not to go off halfcocked but there is a moment when you are going to do kind of what I’m sure what you’ve done, Sandra what you’ve done, which is you got to act something that is compelling because there are some passion in it or some opportunity that you could see that maybe nobody else is seeing at that moment you take risk. Travis: There are several different directions to give here. Number one, with the kid, with the teenager or preteen, what I hear your saying is the lack of strong leadership from parents is the underlying cause for them drifting too far and just becoming completely lost in the process. Ken: Yeah, it’s definitely not that the parents are disengaged or they don’t care about the kid. These parents care like crazy and in fact they become over engaged in the child’s specific success. They want to help but they give the wrong kind of help. The help they give actually disables the child because they wind up doing the kid’s assignments for them. Travis: Or they coddle them too much. Ken: Or they cut deals with the teachers, even try to get the teachers to give A is when the kid’s doing B work. So it actually undercuts the sense of ethics. Travis: Right. So to remove that, and a whole another terrible lesson there, they are teaching their kid in the process. But if we move that to a business owner, one of the problem is we don’t have anyone telling us what we need to do or give us that strong leadership, so then you shift to a completely

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

different problem which is if I remember it your saying what was it, with the business owners it was the lack of the ability to take risk or fear failure is that what it is your saying?

Ken: Yeah, fear failure and then a fear to take risk will keep you frozen. You will stay in the plateau and you keep just doing what you have always done. But one of the problems is if you’re not getting good results, continually doing what you have done doesn’t lead you anywhere new. Travis: Yeah, well we have had this conversation or the stuff which comes up with several shows and I’m very big on right brain left brain stuff, I don’t let it drive too much of me but I do let it decide who should sit in what seat in the bus in the company. And it’s just my observation that as right brainers are much more okay with putting it out there with risking with the potential of failure, and left brainers are not, you agree or disagree? Ken: Yeah as a psychologist it gets more levels of discrimination that you could make but for sure the deeper you got to be untethered from all conventional limits. To some of those, I mean these men are wild and crazy some of them are systematic but within an organization but as you say, you need left brained people to make sure that the books are in order and to carry out things in a systematic way. But leaders are both charismatic and they see a bigger picture and that’s what is necessary for a business to really move. And this is different at different times there is an early stage and there’s a more mature stage and you need a different leaders at different times. Travis: Oh great point. That’s something that very few people ever talk about. Can you go deeper on that? Ken: Well let’s talk about a business that’s really starting to take off, and it’s getting good customers and it’s getting maybe a fairly high end product out, could be a software product whatever but it’s got an extreme promise and so on. If you look like you are headed towards a million dollars income in gross income, just what you are doing now is providing that. But if you get to 10 million or to a 100 million there is a whole different set of layers you need in the company to make sure things stay on course. And I think you need somebody who’s handled that kind of level before. I think Steve Jobs is an interesting person for taking Apple to this one particular moment stepping aside and then coming back having a slightly larger perspective and also knowing what to say no to, and who to say no to, and what to say yes to. He actually transformed as a leader over that time that he was away but also became very, very clear that it wasn’t going to take other people’s opinion for how to run things. Travis: Right. Probably one of the best things that ever happened to him is getting squeeze out of his company and going to build the other business and then coming back. Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Ken: Exactly. Travis: I have taken a business from zero to a million and then 1 to 3, and then 3 to 5 and then 5 to 10. And each of this shows very, very different. Ken: That’s really what I am talking about and then sometimes it’s not that common, it’s a rare individual who can keep doing that and stretching and growing and there’s certainly out there but they are unusual so Travis that’s very cool because you know how hard it is for somebody who starts a small business as an entrepreneur to even let go of it and let people come in sometimes. Travis: Right. And so my point of failure is when I got it to 10 million dollar phase, and nearly I really wasn’t equipped to run my business because it’s not my passion.... Ken: Right. Travis: Management of people is not my passion and there is just so many layers of things that come along there and I think a lot of people think because they found the business because this is the way I thought and I spoke with other people too. So they found the business that they always need a whole the top position in the company. Ken: Yes, yes. Travis: And really at times you need to get out of the way and bring somebody in and let them run the parts of the business they’re familiar with and you continue being the figure head or whatever it is that you are extremely good at. Ken: Well when you have consulted with as many businesses as you have Travis I’m sure you have seen people hit that point whatever that is it could be less 10 million, but the business takes a different shape and they are not really up to it and they will hold on and actually retard the development of the company. Travis: Right. It seems to be ego based or just not knowing what it is they don’t know the second level of competence unconsciously incompetent about what it is they don’t know about the business at million dollars.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Ken: And it is there and it’s what they have always done and I am not sure what’s going to happen if they let it go. Sandra: Well you guys are talking all about me can I also a copy in chocolate store that 21 years old in Connecticut. And when I met Travis that’s exactly the place I was, I had this fear of I knew what I knew, I felt like I should have known more and I should have been able to bring it somewhere else and so the business started losing money. And when I met Travis he helped me design the perfect person that should run that place. And sooner did we design that person and I started having some conversation to a friend of mine. My girl friend called me and she says I think I know somebody you should talk to. So for the last six months my business, this woman has become a General Manager, she absolutely loves it and she has run much bigger businesses and has the goal of having a little factory somewhere else off premises and a whole bunch of meetings and I just didn’t know what I didn’t know and that was okay to let somebody step in and bring it to the next level but I am not a failure but I didn’t know that before. Ken: Yeah, that’s a fantastic case of point, and by the way chocolate and coffee, boy I have been in Connecticut I mean really good I would be in deep ...But going back to your example, it’s really remarkable that I think of this Middle Eastern stories from the Sufi tradition about the village idiot who didn’t know there is a number higher than 99. In a way in our businesses we can be like you mean there is a number higher than 99 I mean you have been doing it for a long time and it’s going well. And then it starts to go south and you can’t quite figure out what it is but it actually needs somebody who has got a bigger, larger purview over the whole thing and you can’t get that from your experience, that’s why well I got a lot of experience I run this for 20 years now. You got experience for 20 years but teaches you there’s a way to do it then keeps you stuck there. Travis: Right. Sandra: Right. Travis: That’s why it’s so hard to help someone that hasn’t been brought to their knees. Ken: Oh boy, that’s a good one Travis. Travis: Because there’s just like you said hey, I have been running this business for 20 years who would better? Well there is a lot of people better. Ken: Exactly.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: There is a lot of people better, there is a lot of people who can do it better. But there is a touch of arrogance and I know you have confidence to run your business and I appreciate that. I know that there is a fine line there but until they have been brought to their knees and it’s crystal clear that they need to find something new there is just not ready to listen the other way and they are not ready to hear that there is 100 anything above 99 like what you were talking about. Ken: Right, right. Travis: Now there is one other computation of what Sandra is saying here also is the business had not really grown to a level beyond her skillset it’s just the business is no longer a passion of hers. Which is a difference of problems but she still needs somebody to run it, right? Ken: Absolutely, she needed somebody to run it and it’s hard to leave something that is no longer a passion but if it isn’t you lose your forward thrust, you lose your energy. My book could use me as an example it came out 10 years ago, while I was excited to write that book always the place where I felt I have deep unique contribution to make was with this communication with these parents and what happened with their kids, when you talk to them about their passion, and talk to them about personal choice and responsibility. I mean to get results that were unprecedented in 60 years of research because 60 years of research show that you can’t really do anything with underachieving kids. In 14 weeks these kids went up 6/10 of a grade point under GPA and 6 months later 8/10 of a grade point, well that’s really powerful, and that’s where I felt that I was making absolutely a unique contribution. And so for the last 10 years it’s more of being with organizations and so on and I’m actually shifting back toward I’m not going to let go of the stuff that I’m doing, but shifting back to that heart space because I’ve got some new ideas, I even have worked with kids in fresher newer ways. So this is an exciting time for me because it’s like I’m letting myself outgrow this skin that’s kind of contained me too much for too long because I was like well I want to make good in this book. This book was published by a serious publisher and now it’s this language and that language and it actually became a trap for my creativity. So I’m stretching now. I’ve got to stretch the envelope and some people really just get a little worried about that particular moment, I was for quite a while. It’s like well can I let go of it? Shall I let go of it? I said wait a minute, I have this many followers, this many people in a mailing list. Well it’s like I’ve got to refresh what I’m charged about in order to keep my personal creativity going, and to me, there are greater things than the top line or the bottom line if I start to feel empty inside. Travis: Right. And it’s scary if you have so much of your life dedicated to this one thing or this one direction and you gradually find that you’re not actually excited about it. How do you make that shift? How did you make that shift in your mind? Like okay, I built all this following and this business to a very successful level. How do you get over the fear of shifting gears and to another focus?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Ken: Well what’s interesting for me Travis is I kept saying I’m going to do this. I probably said for 3 years, I also want to get back to my work with kids and I didn’t move and I didn’t move and something inside me, I think cautionary, if that’s the word, was saying well, you got a lot on your plate you better figure out how to do this. And yet, I didn’t figure out how to do it because I’m not that left brain. I can’t sit down with a piece of paper and write a story. I love these people. They write a box here, a box there, and a box there and then they got a flow. And it so not me to a fault, but I suddenly started talking to people, all kinds of people who were way out of the field of psychology. Energy workers and all kinds of experiences that they were having with yogis and that kind of stuff, and they started nudging me to follow my heart. In one way or another, they never said it in so many words. It was like the time is now. I decided at a certain point that I simply got to do something. I’ve been simply starting to do it and I don’t have a safety net I’m just doing it and it’s got to be. It’s like a cancel point where it had to be for me to stay firm to me. But I think part of the thing is when people are about to give up the reigns to a business, they’re afraid some young whippersnappers going to come in and tell them everything they did was wrong because they have a degree from Harvard and they are afraid of being shown up too. It’s an antsy, uncomfortable position like somebody’s going to come up and say you could have done it differently. Travis: Right. We have a funny shift there are you there Ken? Ken: I’m here. Sandra: I’m here too. I’m feeling everything you have just described as that’s exactly what happened to me. Because I had the fear of it wasn’t good enough how I was doing it, hearing and even talking to the publishers yesterday. A “Well, thanks for submitting but it’s not what we expected.” I get that all right there and nobody wants to feel made wrong from where I stand, and so that fear is so intense. Ken: Right. Travis: Well, let’s talk about; it sounds like some of your training is towards that inner voice. Is that correct? Ken: Sure, sure it’s what I accumulated in all the work I did in Psychotherapy. I just started realizing that the voice there that people completely ignore. Travis: And so now there’s this constant voice, Sandra and I recently went through some training and they were talking about this constant negative voice that says you’re not good enough, you’re not smart

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

enough, you’re not attractive enough or whatever it is. And the training was that, that voice was formed when you were a kid at 6 or 7 years old, and so that is your little self and I think there is a voice that is your higher self that is I believe what you are talking about is what your true calling is whether it aligns with your business or not. Am I correct? Ken: Yes, I do feel that. I feel people sometimes have a childhood that actually bottles up something that’s in them, even if they developed a negative voice, like they are self-attacking. They have a very limited perspective of what reality is, and they wouldn’t know how. They are absent in mentoring or they feel they are not an inside. That there is an inside knowledge that people have and they don’t have. And sometimes that’s because it’s true. They don’t know the ropes. They don’t know how to make different kinds of phone calls to people in that work or whatever. And being an individual independent entrepreneur can be very isolating and less people deliberately reach out experience and cultivate relationships with people who were doing something a little bit larger than they are right now. So that they can learn how it gets done. Because there can be people with apparently self-critical voices. But the I found that the voice of just actually not knowing, not getting it, not knowing where to start. Feeling perplexed and maybe not wanting to embarrass yourself, or weeping way before with no looks in landing bump on your nose. So I mean, I’ve done a few face plants because I’m not willing to wait and yet at the same time I personally love to do things really really well by doing it all. So, it can be a break on certain kinds of risk. I’m actually glad I don’t allow stuff to go out under my name that’s just crap, but certainly I just did a 90 day challenge. I think both of you were aware of that. But I mean, I started recording videos one a day in front of a camera and they were terrible in the beginning. I mean, I got better and better. So I was willing to do that and there’s a way that we were willing to do that. Just pursue, and actually that 90 day challenge was a catalyst for me to make some of most I’m making now. Travis: And so I’m like you, I’m fine with risk and I’m much better at calculating risk now that I’m 46 than when I was 26 for several reasons. Ken: Including brain development, right? Travis: Yeah Ken: We all know that the brain only starts to mature at 26. Travis: Yeah. Ken: Especially when it is about calculating risks.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Everything else that came in those 20 years during that period also. Now, one of those things— this is a weakness and strength of mind. I tend to go at things very aggressively, and so normally when I miss it has the potential to be dussy. But I also tend to have some pretty good successes on the way. Now, I don’t want to paint the picture that’s just blind archery here. A great case of point I can laugh at now, but in a much more measure with my clients that I have very little risk aversion with myself. And I send out a sales letter that I wrote, and I was really convinced that it would do well and I thought the headline or one of the hooks was “If you had 1 shot…,” and so I decided I had this epiphany to put a live round in the letter. Yeah, a live bullet. Now I had my guys check with the postmaster twice and they cleared it. Ken: Literally you put a bullet in your sales letter? Travis: Yes. Ken: I thought you were speaking metaphorically Travis. You’re a wild man. Travis: I did it for a couple of reasons. I wanted it to be a lumpy mail. And they would say “What’s in this?” and open it. Well I sent it out to 3,000 people. Ken: Right. Travis: And the Congresswoman Gabby Gifford got shot just as I mailed it all. Ken: Oh my goodness. Travis: And so everyone thought was being tasteless, and they were gone and I couldn’t turn it around. And I got an incredible response, it was a bunch of negativity and the government came after me. Ken: Ah huh. Travis: It turns out you can’t do that. Well it’s a funny story now because everything got patched up and no problems and no issues but I have a tendency when it comes to my own things to being very aggressive. And so that pace and space at that time that tends to bite me. Have you got much better at that with your own endeavors?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Ken: Yeah, I’m not quite the cowboy I once was. I do think there is something about realizing time isn’t boundless and that just takes a while to start to occur. I think I remained inordinately inattentive to time passing that’s the longest time. And there’s a way that you have to say that “Okay, sounds like a good idea. But It would be good for this if it really work.” And take a second and a third look even if I am much livelier in another time in my life to talk to 3 people. At least 3 people and get opinions on something that I’m going to do, then you wait on what they had to say I like to think about it first, then get some feedback then think about it again and then decide. It’s important for me to remain the responsible party in my own mind and not that these guys told me. But I did some really cockamamie things when somebody was my friend. If somebody came along with an investment and my friends were doing it, I was doing quite well with my investments but I would take a chunk of money and put it in because they were my friends. Now it’s like duh? I’ve done some really, I left money behind that I could have, that I could use now. But it’s the kind of thing that took me a while to learn. It’s not all just fun. There’s a serious quality that you have to think responsibly. But still in this moment with much more calculation I’m taking this risk. A calculated risk moving away, not just dumping all the work I’ve done. I’m consolidating, I’m thinking smarter, trying to be wise about how to do things. And I bet you that’s what the change for most people who really start to move on and to throttle back to the raw risk taking in composite with something else. So wrap a bullet twice or something. I was thinking of bullet points or all kinds of funny things I could say when you were saying that. Sandra: Ken can I ask you a question? Ken: Yeah. Sandra: Way back when you were a kid, and somehow you have developed into this extra ordinary person and you found these diamonds in your own backyard your passion, can you tell us a little bit about how you found your calling? Ken: Wow. That’s intriguing. A school counselor, I went to see my high school counselor a year after I graduated and then I said I’m majoring in psychology and as far as I know, the reason that I was majoring in psychology is I took in my first year of school psychology classes and I kept on getting the highest score in the test. I thought, “Gee, I know I’m interested in this, but I may be really interested in this.” And then I liked the sound of it and liked the whole idea of it. Okay, I’m a major in psychology and I declared that as a freshman in college in my very first semester, and I didn’t waiver a bit. And I also knew that to do what I wanted to do was directly work with people meant that I had to get a doctorate. Nobody in my family ever got a doctorate. That I just decided that I would do it and in some way it just had a magnetic effect on me, the mind how it works it’s just way serious and intriguing. So I got to see the high school counselor and I said “Oh, so you wound up in your father’s profession after all. Well my

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

father was a minister and the last thing that I wanted to do was. Honestly, the last thing that I wanted to do was a minister in the particular denomination that I grew up in was in the church because I had a father father. People were called by God to do this. So I would just sort of think that God, I don’t hear the phone ringing it’s fine let’s keep trying. So I didn’t really want to do what he said. But I was amazed. He was so like this was a guy I never heard a false note in my entire life, never from this guy. He was so unwavering. So I learned that you could do things in an unwavering way from watching him and being committed and that’s why doing a doctorate, I didn’t even give it a second thought that I would do a doctorate. And like I said nobody knew how to do it but I do it in a very good job because I wasn’t an insider that was planning in advance and thinking setting up letters and doing things that people could get to the graduate school you want to go to, because I actually transferred 4 times as an undergraduate. Every year I went to a new school. It was crazy. So I could have used mentoring that and I did get mentoring when I was in graduate school. So it became a whole new world to have people showing you the ropes that would change others than just the next class that you were going to take. So Sandra, I have managed to mesmerize myself with the sound of my own voice so much that I forgot much of the question. There was something about how did I develop my passion I think? Sandra: No, it’s just great. You mean things are just coming up. I’m getting these sparks that are popping out like you’re working out this and this. You just said the word mentoring and I think whether you are a young adult or any human being or a business owner. Could you just speak about getting a mentor because I think that there are many of us business owners that, like we’ve spoken about doing the best we can and all that, but it is time to take the next step, the value of being mentored? Ken: Well it just takes years and years of your time. There is nothing like somebody who’s ahead of you and following in some way the same path you’re following. That tells you what to look out for on the trail and also can guide you to resources. Yesterday I got on the phone with a friend of mine, that was 2 days ago and I said Harold this is what I’m doing. And he goes “Ratatatatat” like a machine gun, that’s him, that’s my buddy and he goes that this, this, this and they were great ideas that I haven’t thought of. So it’s like there is an interaction and he’s a business guy. So he thinks of connections in the world in a different way than I do. I think he is right brain in some respect. But he’s very much in business for a very long time. And in private practice there was a time when I got started and even considered unethical to advertise to make claims about what you did. And so when you get trained in an academic university for a PHD, I have a PHD which is more an applied degree. You’re going to do this education, you’re going to write this and you’re going to write that and there are all these things. A whole in quotation that’s going about Mammon, God and Mammon, money and so on and yet, these guys were on an academic setting and they take grants and they are quite comfortable. They have a good life. But you are not trained to go

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

after money so I could tell you that for me it was difficult at some point. They even talk about Internet marketing. And it always has a side to it that makes me squeamish because there is a certain play on people that makes me uncomfortable and it doesn’t feels best serves businesses but small business owners don’t get into that kind of marketing and those kinds of problems they just think stepping up and getting mentoring and going outside yourself, and it could come from even a local service club like a rotary but I think if you aim a little above where you are. If you get comfortable with people at your own level, you don’t fire what we call mirror neurons with other people that have different ideas. It turns out that the brain when we are having a conversation with somebody they found that their tone of voice and what they are talking about the very same neurons that are firing in our brains and they are firing in theirs when they talk. Well you need to be talking to people then who will make you fire neurons that give you a different whole scope in your outlook, in order to really grow. Travis: Right. Sandra: That is so valuable to here because as I mentioned I had huge growth in deciding to write a book putting the book proposal altogether, actually writing the book and getting the publisher, and now the books will be on hands on October 13 and all these happened by speaking with my co-host Travis daily. So I became an individual that I haven’t known to be, and now I’m hearing that that is no accident. It’s not just that Travis is a great guy, but I’ve been listening and he is someone well above businesswise my success level and that’s just what happened. Ken, Travis and I talk a lot about why we created this show. And to encourage business owners who are often as you can probably agree, we are solo and lone rangers in our business. We have this show 1 to be able to listen to realize that no we are not alone in this, to get some mentoring and get some advice and know that our guest has not been to great places like success but also have been in lots of failures and so that people can hear themselves in that. Although we encourage people to create their own mastermind we literally find a group that there are some above you, some below your success level and like I’m really interested in hearing about how the brain is firing, I never heard that before. That is fascinating. Ken: Yeah. Well there are lots of people who will tell you that you need to hang out with successful people in order for you to be successful. And it always sounds good but it’s like one of those bromides. But this brain research on the mirror neurons means there is a neurological basis for hanging out with people who will help you fire some neurons that’s not been firing it’s the real deal, this just came out in the last 2 or 3 years at most maybe even shorter than that, and it’s fascinating work. It’s why being with mentors is such a great experience and you know Sandra I’m guessing that you mentor Travis in ways you don’t know because you formed up this partnership. But every time you have people on new mirror neurons fire for you and for your audience. This is like a form of mentoring figure with all these people talk. But you can’t, I don’t even know how you can pay for the value that good mentoring has provides

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

you and for that matter good psychotherapy if that’s something you want to invest in as in like life lessons in a very structured environment coaching is fantastic because it’s so open-ended. But if you want to know how to read your own palm as far as your own experiences, I can own several houses with the money I’ve spent on my own psychotherapy, because I found somebody good and more than one person who is good and it’s like an incredible mirror for you and then you get mirror and then you get neurons that are firing it’s incredible. It’s an education that’s what people need is to never never quit educating yourself. Travis: Yeah, There’s the circle of 5, so I try to pay close attention who I spend time around and one of the things that drives me crazy is there’s a lot of people that I care about that take advice from the public that really shouldn’t be dispensing advice on the topic that they are giving. Because there are a lot of people who will give you very serious advice about your business and your finances and none of it are really based on empirical proof of good decisions. It’s all just hearsay and it drives me crazy that’s why when you get surrounded by powerful people whether not just financially powerful but powerful in whatever endeavor that matters to you. They require you to step it up and stay in their presence on a regular basis. And you want to be able to offer something to this group because they are giving you so many great things. And so there is just this incredible dynamics. I’ve done it with golf. I started playing with this guy when I never played golf before, and I started playing with him and I beat him in the shooting in the 70’s which really offended him. But he was the one who made it possible, because he was so good that I could fast forward my results, and I’ve had that in so many other situations. Because I had told my sister that I had paid 900 dollars an hour for a coach and she thinks that’s crazy but we don’t get on the phone and talk about his kids and anything else or my kids and we talk about business and we are very straight to the point and then we move on. But you hit it on the nose and if you want to fast forward your results get a mentor, years and years of results. Ken: You can save so much grief too. It’s not that you’re not running your business you are doing in a certain level but you are not even noticing what else you could do that might make that business really sing . And I completely am on board with people who say “Well look, I’m not interested in making 20 million or whatever. People have the right to simplify their life whatever they want. So there were a lot of people who are frustrated and they are in a tiny little skin and they do really want to go out. They have curiosities that are like a little itch they have something that seems to call them. They set it aside and set it aside and that’s what’s really sad because I in my private practice have send people to go and do ceramics. Not like do this certain ceramics I’m the doctor say. Suggesting and had because I saw that in them something else would happen while they sat at the wheel and it did. So people need to explore curiosity and sometimes they lead to some interesting business opportunities that are completely unexpected. But I will tell you when I did this 90 day challenge I had no clue on all the collateral influence that was going to happen. People talk about collateral damage in warfare; these are like

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

collateral benefits that came from doing this one kind of discipline. It was like all these opportunities started opening to me. Because I think I was just more open to okay I’m moving forward and I’m putting my ass on the line. Sandra: And Ken what was your one discipline? Was it the video? A day? Travis: Yeah, exactly. Ken: Yeah. Yeah. Just doing a YouTube video and you know doing a YouTube video is more than just standing in front of a camera, it’s getting it up to YouTube too. Which involves editing and a whole lot of things where there were all these steps and I was, I don’t know if you knew the original. I was to have written a 10,000 dollars check to the presidential library of a politician I did not admire. If I did not complete 90 days I’d sign a paper with somebody. Sandra: Wow. Travis: Talk about motivation. Ken: Exactly. Travis: Was the prize inside the box, right? The prize was the discovery and the journey from in the 1990s. Ken: Exactly. Sandra: Ken something else is coming to my radar screen is you’re working with an adults and children’s organization, there is a connection with another human being and like getting mentored that we receive so much more in growth. I have found when I have mentored and coached people more so in personal development than in business but I got to see a whole side of myself that I didn’t get to see existed and in that. I got more confidence to take more risk, take more actions myself. Because some of the words that I heard coming out from my mouth were “Wow, that’s genius.” And I think can you speak a little about I mean somebody be selling widgets or something like that. But the value whether it’s giving their time volunteering or you have a service based business that are working with individuals the value of actually working with people and making a difference for another life. Ken: Oh Yeah. I can’t tell you. I mean, to be a therapists and have conversations with people is very interesting for me. A lot of people when I begin in practice and throughout, if I meet someone in a party

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

and would say I don’t know how you can stand to sit and talk to people with their problems all day. Well, I didn’t sit and listen to people talk about their problems all day. The way they were referring to, some friend got them on the phone and wouldn’t want to let them off and was whining. I have a professional relationship with this people in which my job as I describe it to them was to hold back their attention to something that they have just said a day before or in the last time too or to say this is not adding up. To shine a light and what I got to do, what it was like for me to be in practice. What it must like to be a midwife. I mean if I got to watch people dig down closer to that inner voice that you were referring to Travis earlier. And experience things sometimes that cannot be explained, other things that you talk about with Sandra and your work, things that aren’t easily explicable with the world as we had it pouched when we grew up. But people would go to new places and experience new things and shed limits and be afraid but there was time enough for them to integrate it. The weekend workshop, this massive water hose of experience coming out, the fire hose information. They can work with that and developed it actually stretch their skin and grow and that is massively wonderful if you’re on the giving side. Because you are receiving in the moment you give if your attention is focused. Now I believe it’s in the level of focused attention that growth happens on both side. Travis: What do you mean by that? Ken: Well, if I’m with you, were talking about something and if I’m totally shut down my brain chatter and I really drawn into your words and listen to exactly what you’re saying and hear the implicit communication not just the explicit communication. The actual engagement in that level of focus grows a person internally this is what the east has always talked about focused attention. Because when you said when you focus your attention to whatever before in 30 years before but it’s really learning it to keenly focus on attention unto whatever degree possible and in a greater way control your own mind and that is power. Its powerful, it’s not power like to wield against somebody or overtake somebody and some people use that there is tremendous abuse power out there. But if you are an ethical person to be with someone and to make that kind of intervention you were talking about where you can’t believe what is full out of your mouth Sandra, that is the most amazing creative moment. So I would regularly go home from psychotherapy session feeling high but I also didn’t like talking anymore. Travis: Right, yeah I want to take that and apply it to this situation because it’s really hitting home with me there’s something to dial it in. Sandra and I created the show because we do want to give back and we understand the importance that business owners make to our community and we love business owners. And so now I am surprised at the depth of relationships that is showing out for me. I am talking to Sandra about this, let Sandra speak for herself but the depth of relationship I have with people like yourself when I have an interview, this is a focused conversation, no drifting, no answering emails, no focusing on anything else but what you are saying in diving deeper. And there is a surprising effect with

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

everybody that I have interviewed, I have a much deeper connection than I do with anybody else that I spend one hour with just casually talking to. Ken: Because the rules of small talk aren’t really there. When we started but when the agreement ... in this conversation is that we want to go somewhere deeper and that we really care about what we are saying, it’s not just that we are filling some time and looking at our watches. We are alive to this conversation and our neurons are mirroring each other and this is how, I use this term and I use it here and I think it’s misunderstood so I may come out with another term. But this is how I fall in love with people, if I have a real conversation with somebody and then they reveal something of who they are then something happens inside me where I feel closer whereas if I go through life and I only respond to people for their function, I feel dried up. Travis: I think it’s a good description, I think you need to keep that, it adds color to your life, doesn’t it add taste. Even deeper and even after this conversation you can send me a message and say Travis can you do this for me and I will do it. You are not like Facebook friend that I will bump in somewhere not remember because I got Facebook friends I don’t remember who they are. There is deeper relationship, is the same thing showing up you Sandra? Sandra: Oh without a doubt I know from my past experience, anytime you engage with somebody in conversation and ask them why they love their family, or their kids, or you get some talking about themselves and what they really care about. There is some connection that is made they feel good you will in turn share this moment like what you are saying Ken. When you are so intently listening to the other person and right there in the moment, oftentimes we think or we have to think what to say next, you don’t. Because if you are so in the moment with the person the right words come out of your mouth and they are brilliant and there are things that need to be said. And that won’t happen if you are thinking what I am going to say or how I am going to say this and so even being on the show today, I find my mind want to go allow to Travis is smarter, more successful in business, let him ask the question like that how it goes, and it’s like I purposely shut it off, and I just stay present to the words that is coming both out of your mouth, and all of a sudden there is something there for me to say and it’s brilliance. And it makes such a profound different relationships and I think has it take, learn new things that we normally wouldn’t because engaging in any kind of conversation, even if the person sitting next to you on an airplane there can be gold in that conversation and so you get ideas and ultimately you can take new actions which ultimately lead to different results so all brilliant stuff. Travis: You know funny thing for me is I thought I was going to be the one giving a gift to people and I am the one that’s giving the gift.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Ken: Isn’t it that true. I want to ask you Sandra, are you aware what you give to Travis. Sandra: I am, well some of the things, I don’t know. Travis: We talk about that. Well, I am glad that you bring that up. We are kind of like two sides of a coin, I think it’s one of the things that attracted us number one, when we had a very deep meaningful conversation, she had it good, she could a variety of topics and also I tried to calculate or draw conclusion based on multiple things and as I spoke with her it becomes obvious to me that Sandra was not clear how much of a rockstar she was. And so I just come out and ask her, I say it is not obvious to you is it and she said no. But the same token she has done the same thing for me, because I have areas of weakness, areas where I need help in, she is an incredible connector, she can connect, she can connect great people together and she also can initiate relationship with people very, very quickly that is not a strength of mine, there’s so many, many other things that she supports and helps me on and we realize we are really the two sides of a coin. Sandra: Well, here’s one for you Travis, because I just put this out on national airways. Ken, Travis is someone that has gone bankrupt and he has generated tens and millions of dollars and to him he’s got the recipe and he’s like yeah, I’m just being who I am being and for me, for me I say that Travis is the one to transform business in United States, I say that. I am going to hold on to that and he doesn’t necessarily see that but he’s got the goods, part of the passion I have about creating this was just to start drawing out some of the distinction some of other things, because there are things within this man that can greatly impact the lives of thousands of people, and their families. So I want to hold him to account, find out what are those distinctions are and I am the connector. And I know Travis sitting on his office creating new programs and services, and his marketing techniques are great. And where the value is going to come isn’t working with people and connecting him to those people that he can make a difference with. So I am not letting Travis escape until he transforms business. Travis: She walked those things up in me Ken. Ken: Well, yeah, there’s a symmetry in most relationships that is really working and it was just a great pleasure right now to hear about the particular symmetry that you have because if he helped you with your business Sandra, you are actually helping him with what you see his mission is, and he is casual about it on a certain way or it seems just ordinary and you are saying he is just extraordinary and you need to get it out. And of course, I just heard you talk about for three minutes so I am not covering the complexity of your relationship here. But I think that when people choose somebody to work with in a business partnership, this kind of symmetry really needs to be there and it’s wonderful when each person appreciates the other and it’s clear that you both do. And you recognize the same step the other

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

side of your coin does for the coin you are together and awhile. I have actually written about people needing to look at what are their worst strength is and what are their best weaknesses because to me our worst strength is the strength we over rely on because it’s so powerful then we want to do it with everything it’s the muscle idea of hammers and nails. But it’s also that we often don’t treasure or value that much that actually it is just water to us to fish and we are not aware of how a typical actually is that some people don’t think that way or whatever and those are little hidden diamonds in your own backyard. Travis: Exactly. She pointed those things out, it walked me up so the comparison is the fish is in water but doesn’t know that the fish is in water and to me these skills that I developed, where things that I developed and really downplayed for many, many years. Of course you are extremely perceptive on those fronts because of what we have been to each other. Listen we are running short on time, so we need to start wrapping things up, I want to personally thank you for taking time out of your busy day. I know you are very popular man and the value that you brought today has been incredible for our listeners. So I want to thank you for that. Ken: Well, thank you wow, what an opportunity to be on with you guys. So I was really looking forward to it and I didn’t even know it was going to be this good. It was such a delight to have this kind of surprises this kind of warm surprises where we go deeper than you expect. Travis: Yeah I agree, Sandra you want to step in there? Sandra: Well, there are two things, one is did we miss anything, is there anything else before we end this said, you are passionate about that you want to share with our listeners. And the second thing is, how people can find out more about you and who you are and what you are up to. Ken: Well, I am a guy who fiddled with a lot of diamonds stuff things, there’s a lot that I am going to and I am doing great now, including that I am getting ready to run a summit, an education summit that I want to run in this educational season. I am talking to the leading educators because I think the conversation about education is not being amplified like it should be by either party or either presidential candidate so I am aiming to do that by late October and you will hear more about it and I will tell what’s coming up so that’s one thing. The other question was, to see all the diamonds that are in my backyard what’s going on, what was again the question? Sandra: Oh the first of the two questions you shared that, the other was how do people find out more about Dr. Ken?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Ken: You can go to www.maxpotential.com. My website is being revised right now at this actual minute while we are doing this interview, it going to look like different soon, quite a bit different but it’s there the materials there maxpotential.com and you can also got to www.kenchristianonline.com and that’s where my blog is and some other things. But maxpotential.com is my main website. I have a Facebook page and I just began tweeting. I am on Twitter now and so figure it out so we’ll see. You guys are both on? Travis: Yeah. Sandra: We are, and after we post your interview on, we put all your connections so our listeners can connect with you. Ken: Okay on Twitter, I am @KenWChristian. Sandra: Wonderful. Travis: Yeah and we’ll put all that stuff up Ken so that they can just click on it and connect with you directly with just one click. Sandra: Yeah, and Ken I want to personally thank you too on behalf of Travis and our listeners. The difference that you have made in the lives of so many people and even in this interview today you will never see the impact because I think not only will it spread to our listeners, but they will use it and they will be connected, and they will be in conversation, and they will get their mentoring and things like that. You’ll never see the results but I want you to know that they are going to happen for giving us your time and the end of the fun with our generous guest for today and we thank you. Ken: Well, it has been fun and what you just said about me is what you do every time you do one of this so it’s fantastic that you guys are doing this great thing for so many people and for yourselves as well. Sandra: Yeah.

Ken: It’s wonderful when we can do things that bless us and bless others at the same time.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Right. Travis: Alright as usual, you guys can go to travisandsandra.com to connect with us there. One of things that we decided to do is once you go ahead and enter your information to the opt in box, I’m going to send you my consumer guide but I think it’s really all that business owners need to be aware when it comes to marketing and running your business and then I have created some videos that I think are, would be really powerful to words helping you make changes in your business. So that’s something that we decided to add in their as additional value for everybody listening to the show, and of course we want to hear from you. So feel free to drop your comments in there and Sandra and I will keep an eye on it, and we’ll communicate with you guys when we see those messages come across the board. That’s all I got for today, so I look forward to the next episode and Sandra. Sandra: Yeah, I just want to challenge everybody to take an action that you haven’t done before, being in communication with somebody, look for your mentor and have a phenomenal rest of your day, thank you.

Travis: Yeah, find yourself a mentor and take care.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That’s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.

Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

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012 kenneth w christian