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Join Date: Feb 2008 meijin Location: Atlanta, GA Managing Director/Admin Posts: 12,506 True WatchGeek Real Name: Michael Concerning Renato

I am writing this so that there is no confusion with regards to Renato here on WatchGeeks. On the evening of June the 7th, I made a post as the Managing Director of WatchGeeks concerning the fact that Renato had sold many of their tourbillon pieces and had yet to deliver them to the members that had paid for them. I'll refrain from rehashing the entire time line again, but suffice it to say that we are approaching 3 months of wait time as I write this. Anyway, Daniel Mink took offense to my comments and immediately "demanded" (his words, not mine) that his account be canceled and that all reference to Renato be removed from WatchGeeks. After consulting with Eyal on this, we were happy to comply with Daniel's request. So, that is the important part for people to understand. We (Invicta/WatchGeeks/whomever) did not "ban" or otherwise remove Renato. They made the decision to leave WatchGeeks. So, here is what you can post concerning Renato: #1. If you get a new (or new to you) Renato, you can post about it in the "Look What I Got" (LWIG) portion of the forum. #2. If you would like to sell one of your Renato pieces, you can do it in the sales area. #3. If you would like to trade one of your Renato pieces, you can do it in the trade area. #4. You can post the photos of the Renato you are wearing that day in the "On the Wrist" section of the forum. Other than that, you may not post about Renato. This includes, but is not limited to, promoting their site(s), promoting their sales, promoting their new releases or anything else to do with the brand. This is at their request.


I hope that this clarifies the situation for everyone. __________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

Last edited by meijin; 06-19-2011 at 08:39 AM. Reason: Corrected original post for an omission

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on with the site?

meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #2 06-18-2011, 03:25 AM Join Date: Apr 2010 hvntgtaclu

Location: New Jersey

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Posts: 537 Real Name: John

Thanks for the information.

hvntgtaclu View Public Profile


Send a private message to hvntgtaclu Find all posts by hvntgtaclu Add hvntgtaclu to Your Contacts #3 06-18-2011, 03:29 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 richhoff

Location: Atmore, AL

Master WatchGeek

Posts: 4,576 Real Name: Rich

Thanks Mike for the clarification. __________________ Corvettes & Watches

Two Expensive Hobbies.

richhoff View Public Profile


Send a private message to richhoff Find all posts by richhoff Add richhoff to Your Contacts #4 06-18-2011, 03:38 AM Join Date: Jun 2009 50mm&up

Location: Braintee, MA.

True WatchGeek

Posts: 16,954 Real Name: Rick

Wow, he chose to leave due to the flack over the Tourby and you questioning him on it? He has cut off his nose in spite of his face, IMO. He will lose customers over this. Amazing. I wish I could cancel my Tourby, but it is slated to go to someone else now. Thanks for everything Michael. __________________

50mm&up


View Public Profile Send a private message to 50mm&up Send email to 50mm&up Find all posts by 50mm&up Add 50mm&up to Your Contacts #5 06-18-2011, 04:14 AM Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Atlanta, Georgia JoeGa Posts: 2,659 Master WatchGeek Real Name: Joe T

kinda like taking your football and going home __________________

.... truth sometimes hurts!


What ?!? No Watch ?!?

JoeGa View Public Profile Send a private message to JoeGa Send email to JoeGa Find all posts by JoeGa Add JoeGa to Your Contacts #6 06-18-2011, 04:19 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 chase16

Location: New Hampshire

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Posts: 1,226 Real Name: Gary A Chase


sad day.

chase16 View Public Profile Send a private message to chase16 Find all posts by chase16 Add chase16 to Your Contacts #7 06-18-2011, 04:24 AM Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Pennsylvania thescarletpimpernel Posts: 540 Veteran Geek Real Name: Mike

Thanks for explaining it all to us...

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Find all posts by thescarletpimpernel Add thescarletpimpernel to Your Contacts #8 06-18-2011, 04:28 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 bugduck

Location: Central VA. Blue Ridge MTNS.

Master WatchGeek

Posts: 3,972 Real Name: Lynn

Thanks for the Information. As of Now I Don't Own a Renato, Just never liked that Brand, and still do not intend to buy one !

bugduck View Public Profile Send a private message to bugduck Send email to bugduck Find all posts by bugduck Add bugduck to Your Contacts #9 06-18-2011, 04:30 AM


Join Date: Jan 2010 Evil Empire

Location: Powhatan Virginia

Super Geek

Posts: 1,488 Real Name: Scott

thankyou Mike for the explaination but no need been done with Renanto for my own reasons,Seems like not a very good move on his part,Leave shop ,leave the forum ,and also not deliver to dedicated fans .Its like shooting yourdelf in the foot

Thanks for you honesty Mike __________________ KIMBER COMPROMISE SOMEWERE ELSE

Evil Empire View Public Profile Send a private message to Evil Empire Find all posts by Evil Empire Add Evil Empire to Your Contacts #10 06-18-2011, 04:40 AM


Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lima, OH GOPENNSTATE! Posts: 805 Veteran Geek Real Name: Rob

Thanks Mike - as you recommended on 6/7, I cancelled my tourby order and my credit card has been refunded. Like many other Geeks I grew tired of the "few more weeks" each update, and like you my "Spidey-senses" were telling me something is not right. Thanks for looking out for us Geeks!

GOPENNSTATE! View Public Profile Send a private message to GOPENNSTATE! Send email to GOPENNSTATE! Find all posts by GOPENNSTATE! Add GOPENNSTATE! to Your Contacts #11 06-18-2011, 05:12 AM Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Long Island, NY BigBully Posts: 5,312 True WatchGeek


Hey Mike, what about if anyone has a question...like asking if anyone has a link, or if something needs fixing and someone needs advice, help with sizing or operating a movement, etc... should we play safe and keep that off of here. i know even the littlest question will and can turn into a mjor thread so i just wanted to check being ya posted. __________________ BigBully

BigBully View Public Profile Send a private message to BigBully Find all posts by BigBully Add BigBully to Your Contacts #12 06-18-2011, 05:20 AM Join Date: Jan 2009 redhonda

Location: Gaithersburg Maryland.

Senior Geek

Posts: 107 Real Name: Tim

yes Michael, as you advised, I also cancelled my Tourbillon, I got tired of waiting a 'few' more weaks! I


AM getting the Android MOP Tourbillon on June 29th when it goes on sale. that watch from Wing is stunning!!! I would love to see Invicta come out with a tourbillon Reserve piece! I can't even imagine the design Eyal would have on that if he did!!! I can see them putting out a MOP design with the 'beater' at the top and lumes on the bezel!

redhonda View Public Profile Send a private message to redhonda Find all posts by redhonda Add redhonda to Your Contacts #13 06-18-2011, 05:21 AM Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Johnstown PA dhorsfield Posts: 429 Senior Geek Real Name: David E Horsfield

Shortly after Michael penned the original remarks about Renato on the release of the Tourbillion, Daniel fired back that Renato would have their own forum. Knowing this, I'm sure questions can be posted to that forum or contact Renato directly. This will be my last remark about Renato on this site in response to Michael's final comments. I, for one, am greatly dismayed as to how all of this has unfolded for a variety of reasons that may well be similar to other watch collector's. I've collected the brand, bought into the BCM (member 004); and recently purchase another T-Rex. I will need some soul-searching if I'm to continue purchasing the brand. For my


Christian brothers and sisters - it is true, "we reap what we sow". Thanks for viewing.

dhorsfield View Public Profile Send a private message to dhorsfield Find all posts by dhorsfield Add dhorsfield to Your Contacts #14 06-18-2011, 05:50 AM Join Date: Jun 2009 merra61

Location: boston, mass.

Senior Geek

Posts: 225 Real Name: anthony

Thanks mike for the clarification, and thanks for all you do. I hope that in between all the excitement of late, that you actually had time to enjoy your b-day and vacation !

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Find all posts by merra61 Add merra61 to Your Contacts #15 06-18-2011, 05:55 AM Join Date: Sep 2008 BG

Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL

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Posts: 3,224 Real Name: Barry

Thanks for the clarification. Sad that it happened, but still love the Renato brand and quality. Wish them well! __________________ Barry G Fort Lauderdale, FL

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06-18-2011, 06:16 AM Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas J177 Posts: 655 Veteran Geek Real Name: Joe

Quote: Originally Posted by BG Thanks for the clarification. Sad that it happened, but still love the Renato brand and quality. Wish them well! +1 __________________ " I have over a dozen remaining, If you're not on the phone right now ... forget it ! "

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06-18-2011, 06:41 AM Join Date: May 2008 doublel

Location: Long Island, New York

Master WatchGeek

Posts: 4,942 Real Name: Larry

Thanks for the clarification Michael. I love my Renato timepieces...all 9 of them! It's too bad that Daniel made this decision regarding this forum. __________________ Larry

Live Long and Prosper

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Join Date: Jul 2008 JJ-WATCHES

Location: Dallas, TX

Senior Geek

Posts: 150 Real Name: Kenneth

Sorry to here that, Renato is one of my favorite brands they make great watches, maybe something went wrong somewhere along the line. __________________

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Evil Empire

Location: Powhatan Virginia

Super Geek

Posts: 1,488 Real Name: Scott

ok

Quote: Originally Posted by dhorsfield Shortly after Michael penned the original remarks about Renato on the release of the Tourbillion, Daniel fired back that Renato would have their own forum. Knowing this, I'm sure questions can be posted to that forum or contact Renato directly.

I wish him the best but cant see it being real busy __________________ KIMBER COMPROMISE SOMEWERE ELSE

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Join Date: Jun 2008 ACE

Location: Fort Walton Beach , Florida

True WatchGeek

Posts: 8,796 Real Name: Louis

Thanks for this Michael. It probably has something to do with money __________________

..

...............................**

.*

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volscout2 Veteran Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: East Texas Piney Woods


Posts: 819 Real Name: Jerry

Thanks for the update and the clarification Michael. This will help the folks here but the Mommy`s basement haters will take no notice...so forget them __________________

Where`s my package??

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Join Date: May 2008


Senior Geek

Location: Sumrall, Ms. Posts: 217 Real Name: David

I still love Renato, just won't post about them here.Would love to see how they run their site.

rambler1 View Public Profile Send a private message to rambler1 Find all posts by rambler1 Add rambler1 to Your Contacts #23 06-18-2011, 08:41 AM Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California JFM Posts: 1,058 Super Geek Real Name: Jay Malloy

wow... __________________


JFM View Public Profile Send a private message to JFM Send email to JFM Find all posts by JFM Add JFM to Your Contacts #24 06-18-2011, 08:54 AM Join Date: Apr 2010 Knifemaker Location: Live Free or Die NH Veteran Geek Posts: 982

I do not understand no posting about Renato. That is kind of queer to me __________________


Knifemaker View Public Profile Send a private message to Knifemaker Send email to Knifemaker Visit Knifemaker's homepage! Find all posts by Knifemaker Add Knifemaker to Your Contacts #25 06-18-2011, 08:55 AM Join Date: Feb 2009 Braatzman

Location: Wisconsin

Master WatchGeek

Posts: 4,780 Real Name: Nathan

Although I am perplexed by what has transpired and there are many questions unanswered I wish Daniel and his company the very best and thank him for producing an excellent product and prior to


recent discrepencies, good service. Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Nutley , N.J. Posts: 124 Real Name: Dan

njsaintsfan Senior Geek

Bad move for them as a company the only thing keeping the brand fresh in our heads was this forum . Oh well . njsaintsfan View Public Profile Send a private message to njsaintsfan Find all posts by njsaintsfan Add njsaintsfan to Your Contacts #27 06-18-2011, 11:37 AM

TimLovesWatches

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Enola Pennsylvania Posts: 3,630 Real Name: Tim

Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG Thanks for the clarification. Sad that it happened, but still love the Renato brand and quality. Wish them well! ditto!!! __________________ Never forget those who are serving to keep our way of life. TimLovesWatches View Public Profile Send a private message to TimLovesWatches Find all posts by TimLovesWatches Add TimLovesWatches to Your Contacts #28 06-18-2011, 11:39 AM

Azel88 Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: chicago Posts: 3,035


Thanks uncle Mike Azel88 View Public Profile Send a private message to Azel88 Find all posts by Azel88 Add Azel88 to Your Contacts #29 06-18-2011, 11:51 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 624 Real Name: Barry Anderson

bkacher1063 Veteran Geek

Michael, Thanks for what you do. This has to be getting old when adults continue to act like preschoolers. bkacher1063 View Public Profile Send a private message to bkacher1063 Find all posts by bkacher1063 Add bkacher1063 to Your Contacts #30 06-18-2011, 12:01 PM

silversparks Senior Geek

I have stated in the past I dint trust D.M. a lot of bad history in the family. Bill PS I am an owner of Renato silversparks View Public Profile Send a private message to silversparks Find all posts by silversparks Add silversparks to Your Contacts #31 06-18-2011, 12:07 PM

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: san jose ca Posts: 130 Real Name: bill


Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,970

Sir Charles Super Geek

Didn't see this one coming. Surreal. __________________ If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker. -- Albert Einstein URWERK UR-202 • Seiko Monster Sir Charles View Public Profile Send a private message to Sir Charles Find all posts by Sir Charles Add Sir Charles to Your Contacts #32 06-18-2011, 12:11 PM

stevemayer

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 123

Senior Geek

What an amazingly idiotic turn of events from a business management perspective. This all could have been avoided had Daniel Mink handled the tourbillon rollout more professionally and effectively. Who knows how many thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in sales he will ultimately lose because of this. Sad. stevemayer View Public Profile Send a private message to stevemayer Find all posts by stevemayer Add stevemayer to Your Contacts #33 06-18-2011, 12:27 PM


timeman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 7,202 Real Name: Jerry

True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevemayer What an amazingly idiotic turn of events from a business management perspective. This all could have been avoided had Daniel Mink handled the tourbillon rollout more professionally and effectively. Who knows how many thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in sales he will ultimately lose because of this. Sad. Agree. His handling of the Renato Tourbillon has greatly hurt his business and reputation. I think he was looking for a way to get out of watchgeeks, because he was forced to give meaningless updates by repeatedly saying delivery would only be a few more weeks, over and over again. By not being on the forum the amount of negative posts and publicity has now stopped. __________________

timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #34 06-18-2011, 12:58 PM

ekirn Senior Geek

ahhhh free speech at work again....the king has spoken Thanks Michael

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 151 Real Name: Ed


ekirn View Public Profile Send a private message to ekirn Find all posts by ekirn Add ekirn to Your Contacts #35 06-18-2011, 01:07 PM Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 6,301 Real Name: Jim B

the B True WatchGeek

Was not aware of this thanks for the imformaton ...sorry to hear about it __________________

PEACE TO ALL the B View Public Profile Send a private message to the B Find all posts by the B Add the B to Your Contacts #36 06-18-2011, 01:10 PM

WatchWacko Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,423 Real Name: Rick


yup... great post. __________________ Yup... "YOU'RE BUYING INTO EXCLUSIVITY, FOLKS!" WatchWacko View Public Profile Send a private message to WatchWacko Find all posts by WatchWacko Add WatchWacko to Your Contacts #37 06-18-2011, 01:11 PM

karns944

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 881 Real Name: Matthew

Veteran Geek

Wow I always thought you wanted your name in as many places as possible if you owned a business? Maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with that decision Renato. __________________ Just my 8 cents worth (2 cents adjusted for inflation) karns944 View Public Profile Send a private message to karns944 Find all posts by karns944 Add karns944 to Your Contacts #38 06-19-2011, 06:32 AM

RipitRon

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver, Wa Posts: 4,587

Master WatchGeek

Sad day for some, and a Great day for others. I watched it unravel from the start to the finish, and Mike did a what Mike was supposed to do......Good work Mike. You handled the situation the way it should have been handled, looking out for the best interest of the Geek community was your intent...........a blind man could have seen that. __________________ Hmmmmmmm. I can't say what I want to say! RipitRon View Public Profile Send a private message to RipitRon Find all posts by RipitRon


Add RipitRon to Your Contacts #39 06-19-2011, 06:35 AM

soberdave09 True WatchGeek

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BG

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 3,224 Real Name: Barry

Master WatchGeek

Don't think it's a great day for anyone. __________________ Barry G Fort Lauderdale, FL BG View Public Profile Send a private message to BG Send email to BG Find all posts by BG Add BG to Your Contacts #41 06-19-2011, 06:57 AM

Invictus H-D

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tampa Florida Posts: 232 Real Name: Don lagroix

Senior Geek

O well. I wont cry over spilt milk. My opionion of Renato watches was "not for me". Seems like bad business for renato to pull the plug. Thanks Mike for the info. Don Invictus H-D View Public Profile Send a private message to Invictus H-D Send email to Invictus H-D Find all posts by Invictus H-D


Add Invictus H-D to Your Contacts #42 06-19-2011, 07:31 AM Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 3,522 Real Name: Matt

watchdude1 Moderator Master WatchGeek

It is a great day from the perspective of integrity, particularly the integrity of our forum. Mike was acting consistently with not only Mr. Mink's wishes, but with what had to happen. It seems to me that one of Mike's number one responsibilities is to keep members safe from questionable business practices from anyone who participates as a vendor on this forum. Notice I used the word questionable. For those who feel flat "taken" then you know what I am talking about. For those who feel that Mr. Mink did nothing wrong, then fine, but when integrity gets called into question and people are wronged either actually or potentially, one can't sit back and allow that to happen. From that perspective, kudos should be given to Mike for leading in manner consistent with protecting those values. Let us NOT FORGET, it was Mr. Mink who requested for the relationship between WG's and Renato to be terminated. Mike honored that request. Whether you agree or disagree is really irrelevant as that was what had to happen. Your opinion on whether it is a "good day" or not, well, that remains your opinion. __________________ "There's a difference in livin' and livin' well..." -George Strait watchdude1 View Public Profile Send a private message to watchdude1 Find all posts by watchdude1 Add watchdude1 to Your Contacts #43 06-19-2011, 07:56 AM

jeff meade Veteran Geek

To get respect you must give respect ----- thanks for all that you do Michael !! jeff meade View Public Profile Send a private message to jeff meade

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 585


Find all posts by jeff meade Add jeff meade to Your Contacts #44 06-19-2011, 08:28 AM

garyh

Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,210 Real Name: Gary

Super Geek

Thanks for the update Michael enjoy watchgeeks but not sure abot being prohibited about sharing comments about Renato afterall it is the sharing of thoughts and knowlege that helps us all enjoy this insane hobby! __________________

HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST WATCHES WINS!

garyh View Public Profile Send a private message to garyh Send email to garyh Find all posts by garyh Add garyh to Your Contacts #45 06-19-2011, 08:32 AM

strutn45 True WatchGeek

Sounds good to me, nodda problem... zip, zero. __________________

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Da Swamp" LA. Posts: 13,138 Real Name: John "DID DAT"


strutn45 View Public Profile Send a private message to strutn45 Find all posts by strutn45 Add strutn45 to Your Contacts #46 06-19-2011, 08:51 AM

Jaybray1 Veteran Geek

they have fell off anyway good riddins! Jaybray1 View Public Profile Send a private message to Jaybray1 Send email to Jaybray1 Find all posts by Jaybray1 Add Jaybray1 to Your Contacts #47 06-19-2011, 09:01 AM

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Roanoke,Va. Posts: 676 Real Name: Bobby


spunky798

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Boynton Oklahoma Posts: 4,682 Real Name: Dan

Master WatchGeek

WOW bummer but thank you Michael for letting us know.

spunky798 View Public Profile Send a private message to spunky798 Find all posts by spunky798 Add spunky798 to Your Contacts #48 06-19-2011, 09:03 AM

meijin

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 12,506 Real Name: Michael

Managing Director/Admin True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyh Thanks for the update Michael enjoy watchgeeks but not sure abot being prohibited about sharing comments about Renato afterall it is the sharing of thoughts and knowlege that helps us all enjoy this insane hobby! I agree with you. However, you should remember that it was not WatchGeeks that made this decision. Renato did. We are looking to provide as many options as possible to allow members to discuss Renato. As a matter of fact, I just added another section that I forgot about and was reminded by another member. If you don't like the situation, I suggest that you contact Daniel directly as he is the one that made the decision and issued the demands to be removed from here. __________________ Michael


Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #49 06-19-2011, 09:03 AM Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,138 Real Name: Doug

Ronko Man Master WatchGeek

Seems strange that Daniel would want no promotions of his products on the site? I respect that & wish Renato well. __________________

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#50 06-19-2011, 09:14 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 232 Real Name: Eric

bundamania Senior Geek

Oh Well...Never did think much of them because of their dual deployant bands!

hawk27

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 107

Senior Geek

It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a "freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the information, i.e., this website and who owns it). hawk27 View Public Profile Send a private message to hawk27 Send email to hawk27 Find all posts by hawk27 Add hawk27 to Your Contacts #52 06-19-2011, 09:48 AM

strutn45

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Da Swamp" LA. Posts: 13,138 Real Name: John "DID DAT"

True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk27 It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a "freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the information, i.e., this website and who owns it).


WG's is a private site not public. __________________

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hitch

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 337

Senior Geek

I didnt percieve that hawk was questioning whether the owners/adminstrators of WG have the right to set and enforce the forum's TOS. It seemed like he was wondering if the WG forum authorities would be liable to another company for a members statement made about that company in the forum. Than he wrote that it might be a transport thing i.e. responsibility lies with those who actually transport the post to the internet. hitch View Public Profile Send a private message to hitch Send email to hitch Find all posts by hitch Add hitch to Your Contacts #54 06-19-2011, 12:37 PM

RipitRon Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver, Wa Posts: 4,587


Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk27 It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a "freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the information, i.e., this website and who owns it). It doesnt really matter, the rules are the rules and they arent ours to make! Truly makes me happy to be honest with you! __________________ Hmmmmmmm. I can't say what I want to say! RipitRon View Public Profile Send a private message to RipitRon Find all posts by RipitRon Add RipitRon to Your Contacts #55 06-19-2011, 12:48 PM

texasdoug

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 185 Real Name: Doug

Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braatzman Although I am perplexed by what has transpired and there are many questions unanswered I wish Daniel and his company the very best and thank him for producing an excellent product and prior to recent discrepencies, good service.

+1 __________________ Veni vidi vici texasdoug View Public Profile Send a private message to texasdoug Find all posts by texasdoug Add texasdoug to Your Contacts #56 06-19-2011, 04:10 PM


Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: South Florida Posts: 104 Real Name: Billy

MedicineMan Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchdude1 It is a great day from the perspective of integrity, particularly the integrity of our forum. Mike was acting consistently with not only Mr. Mink's wishes, but with what had to happen. It seems to me that one of Mike's number one responsibilities is to keep members safe from questionable business practices from anyone who participates as a vendor on this forum. Notice I used the word questionable. For those who feel flat "taken" then you know what I am talking about. For those who feel that Mr. Mink did nothing wrong, then fine, but when integrity gets called into question and people are wronged either actually or potentially, one can't sit back and allow that to happen. From that perspective, kudos should be given to Mike for leading in manner consistent with protecting those values. Let us NOT FORGET, it was Mr. Mink who requested for the relationship between WG's and Renato to be terminated. Mike honored that request. Whether you agree or disagree is really irrelevant as that was what had to happen. Your opinion on whether it is a "good day" or not, well, that remains your opinion. You have a point, but the concern most had was the fact that there is a conflict of interest. While MD is Managing director of the site, he's an employee of Invicta. A direct competitor of Renato. To tell people, helpful or not, to cancel purchases with another company, when you're about to release your own version of a Tourbillon..is questionable at best. We all know the risks of buying anything from any company, watches or not. But whatever the reason the delay happened, I doubt Renato wanted it that way. I'd rather wait and enjoy a nice product. Just my .02 MedicineMan View Public Profile Send a private message to MedicineMan Send email to MedicineMan Find all posts by MedicineMan Add MedicineMan to Your Contacts #57 06-19-2011, 05:19 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Staten Island New York Posts: 14,467 Real Name: Nick

Chief68 Moderator True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by MedicineMan You have a point, but the concern most had was the fact that there is a conflict of interest. While MD is Managing director of the site, he's an employee of Invicta. A direct competitor of Renato. To tell people, helpful or not, to cancel purchases with another company, when you're about to release your own version of a Tourbillon..is questionable at best. We all know the risks of buying anything from any company, watches or not. But whatever the reason the delay happened, I doubt Renato wanted it that way. I'd rather wait and enjoy a nice product. Just my .02 There is no conflict of interest , if that was the reason we would not have any other watch companies on here . Android is here how many tourbillions did they make . The problem is when someone makes statements like this and starts false rumors. Renato was questioned on behalf of our members all they had to say was they were sorry for the delay and are working on it.They instead requested to be removed from here and never allow anyone to speak about them again. In as far as being asked to cancel your order that was because the information did not seem good that the watches would be ready any time soon. If you would rather wait that is your choice but everyone else is free to make up there own minds as well without your conspiracy theories. __________________

NYPD Emergency Service Unit

Chief68 View Public Profile Send a private message to Chief68 Send email to Chief68 Visit Chief68's homepage! Find all posts by Chief68 Add Chief68 to Your Contacts #58 06-19-2011, 05:22 PM


BIG T LI

Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: North Shore of Long Island, NY Posts: 2,653 Real Name: Tommy

Master WatchGeek

Well, I'm glad we've got that all cleared up, thanks Mike.... Peace out Renato ! __________________

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meijin

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 12,506 Real Name: Michael

Managing Director/Admin True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedicineMan You have a point, but the concern most had was the fact that there is a conflict of interest. While MD is Managing director of the site, he's an employee of Invicta. A direct competitor of Renato. To tell people, helpful or not, to cancel purchases with another company, when


you're about to release your own version of a Tourbillon..is questionable at best. We all know the risks of buying anything from any company, watches or not. But whatever the reason the delay happened, I doubt Renato wanted it that way. I'd rather wait and enjoy a nice product. Just my .02 Nice try, but your logic is a bit flawed here. While technically you could say that any company that sells watches is a competitor to Invicta, I really would not count Renato as much of a competitor. I don't mean that as an insult in any way to Renato. It has to do with their business model. They cannot produce enough product to be a competitor. They produced 150 tourbillon pieces. Quite honestly, who cares? It is 150 watches. That is, literally, a drop in the bucket when it comes to sales. Android and SO are producers of tourbillons. They have already made many more tourbillons than Renato will ever make. They have more tourbillons in the works. They have and will be advertising and marketing them here on WatchGeeks and will be selling them on SNBC. We are happy that they are. And they are more than welcome to do so (as far as WatchGeeks goes). Ask either Wing or Larry if they have ever even been remotely inhibited when it comes to that. They will tell you that they have not. As a matter of fact, both Larry and Wing can tell you that I have personally told them to do more here on WatchGeeks. I have personally told the both of them specific things that they should try to do. For that matter, even outside of the tourbillons, ask Stan from Deep Blue or Avi from XOS. I have done the same with them. This site is for any of the vendors to advertise their products. To promote their products. To interact with the fans of their brands. This was true before Invicta owned the site and this has been true since Invicta bought the site. __________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

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Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Warwick, RI Posts: 2,273 Real Name: Jason

Drops Super Geek

who cares they keep making great watches i will keep picking them up ..nuff said __________________

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Alarmguy Veteran Geek

Wow, also.... I have over 16 Renato's.... oh well... __________________

"True Watch Dogs" Alarmguy View Public Profile Send a private message to Alarmguy

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Central, Ca Posts: 748 Real Name: Gary


Send email to Alarmguy Find all posts by Alarmguy Add Alarmguy to Your Contacts #62 06-19-2011, 06:03 PM

meijin

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 12,506 Real Name: Michael

Managing Director/Admin True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarmguy Wow, also.... I have over 16 Renato's.... oh well... And I hope that, if it please you, you own another 16. And as you purchase each one, you can show them off here. __________________ Michael

Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #63 06-19-2011, 06:08 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DeKalb IL. Posts: 2,297 Real Name: Dave Newby

mrspa Super Geek


Thanks for the heads up Michael typical DM MOVE mrspa View Public Profile Send a private message to mrspa Find all posts by mrspa Add mrspa to Your Contacts #64 06-19-2011, 06:17 PM

ekirn

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 151 Real Name: Ed

Senior Geek

Originally Posted by hawk27 It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a "freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the information, i.e., this website and who owns it). That's what happens when a competitor brand owns a website forum, eventually competing brands will start to slowly disappear for one reason or another and of course the admins will say that it is above board. ekirn View Public Profile Send a private message to ekirn Find all posts by ekirn Add ekirn to Your Contacts #65 06-19-2011, 06:19 PM


Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Staten Island New York Posts: 14,467 Real Name: Nick

Chief68 Moderator True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekirn Originally Posted by hawk27 It's a shame when the general public, (not another watch manufacturer), can't talk about their experience, (wheather good or bad), with a product brand. I can understand why a network or a business, (ShopNBC), or Invicta, or other brands, legally cannot mention another company's name or product, but not the consumer or the public. That should be a "freedom of speech" issue, and not subject to a threat of a law suit as long as the statement is factual and truthful? (It may have to do with the source of transmitting the information, i.e., this website and who owns it). That's what happens when a competitor brand owns a website forum, eventually competing brands will start to slowly disappear for one reason or another and of course the admins will say that it is above board. Is that what you really believe ED ? __________________

NYPD Emergency Service Unit


Chief68 View Public Profile Send a private message to Chief68 Send email to Chief68 Visit Chief68's homepage! Find all posts by Chief68 Add Chief68 to Your Contacts #66 06-19-2011, 08:41 PM Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Quad Cities (Moline, IL.) Posts: 3,001 Real Name: Joe

MamboKing Master WatchGeek

Mike, I appreciate hearing first hand from you what happened and how it went down. Thanks. MamboKing View Public Profile Send a private message to MamboKing Find all posts by MamboKing Add MamboKing to Your Contacts #67 06-19-2011, 08:55 PM Join Date: May 2009 Location: King of Prussia, Pa Posts: 1,241

Pete Super Geek

Thanks allot Mike for looking out for us watch geeks. __________________


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watchluv Master WatchGeek

The way I remember, Mike posted that Renato would be banned from WG's because of the sales of the Tourbillions not being delivered. That he was protecting the members and Daniel never responded back to his e-mails. So, Daniel read this and responded back that he was insulted and wanted to be removed from the site and was opening his on web-site. I just think it got out of hand. But I understand the decision and respect it. I wish them well and still will support them. Their quality and C/S is outstanding from my experiences. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #69


06-19-2011, 10:50 PM Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rockville, Maryland Posts: 55 Real Name: Harry

football Member Geek The Renato/Daniel Mink back story

For those who have expressed conspiracy theories, don't forget that this tourbillion fiasco is not the first time that Daniel Mink has perpetrated what seems to be less than honest Renato business practices, ie: Daniel's personal definition of what an advertised NUMBERED LIMITED EDITION is. Remember, he denied Geek questions several different times here on Watch Geeks that he was reissuing and selling the exact same size, color, dial configuration and even Model Number watches that had sold through their originally advertised maximum limited number production. After initially ignoring these questions, Daniel finally responded here in the Forum and denied that Renato was doing this until several Geeks were able to produce photographic evidence that newly built models that, for example, may have been originally engraved with a maximum of 64 were now being reproduced/reissued and sold showing a maximum number higher than that which was originally stated on the original production run. When confronted with the photographic evidence, his response was that ShopNBC made him do it because it was a popular watch. Upon reading through all the replys to this topic, I noticed that some of the people who where questioning Michael's/Invicta's motives were relatively new to the Forum and should be made aware of why there are Geeks who are not mourning Renato's departure from the site. football View Public Profile Send a private message to football Find all posts by football Add football to Your Contacts #70 06-19-2011, 11:07 PM Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 988

Rodeoboy Veteran Geek

While who did what in what sequence is always interesting there is a way bigger issue here. The failure to learn what Freedom of Speech means. It has NOTHING to do with a private forum. It is a contract between the citizen and the government of the UNITED STATES that we are free to criticize them without any retribution. Watchgeeks is not the US government and has the right to tell us to shut the hell up. Don't like it ? Go start your own forum and see how you like everyone telling you how to run it. __________________ "Let the Free Market rule"


Rodeoboy View Public Profile Send a private message to Rodeoboy Find all posts by Rodeoboy Add Rodeoboy to Your Contacts #71 06-19-2011, 11:11 PM Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Outside of East Lansing, Mi Posts: 441 Real Name: Bryce

bpsnow Senior Geek

We should have all learned our lesson months ago. I questioned Minks business model and called his Black Card Club exactly what it was, a cash grab. Got looked at as a troublemaker and rabble rouser then. Probably will still get looked at that way too, as long as the TOS of this site prohibits free exchange of ideas. bpsnow View Public Profile Send a private message to bpsnow Find all posts by bpsnow Add bpsnow to Your Contacts #72 06-19-2011, 11:39 PM Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 236

chalklit1 Senior Geek

Bummer, but i understand, business&'s must go on!!! chalklit1 View Public Profile Send a private message to chalklit1 Find all posts by chalklit1 Add chalklit1 to Your Contacts #73 06-20-2011, 06:17 AM

oltime Member Geek

Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA Baby! #1 Bklyn - NJ Posts: 50 Real Name: soon to be revealed

KUDOS to all responses this is why I prefer this site, good debate, varied opinions and


carried out in a civil manner. If this issue was carried out on the other "free" sites much of it would read like a bunch of street punks hanging on the corner. I'm a newbie here so I don't know all the issues or history @ hand. But I can still purchase what I like and discuss it here.........sounds good to me. Thanks to all who help keep WG flowing and to the WG members who keep it "sane". (Joe aka oltime) oltime View Public Profile Send a private message to oltime Find all posts by oltime Add oltime to Your Contacts #74 06-20-2011, 06:26 AM

Panda03Bear

Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Silver Spring, MD. Posts: 11,372 Real Name: Adam

True WatchGeek

clarity received. thanks michael for the update. __________________

- Family, that's what's up - Black Eye Dye

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TheMatrix

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 7,335

True WatchGeek

Thanks for the info Michael. I like the Renato brand but am a bit disappointed about how things have turned out with some of their products. With that said, their Mostro 7750 is simply awesome! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Baltimore Maryland Posts: 319 Real Name: Brian

brimsauce Senior Geek

Until this happened, I thought Invicta, Renato, and Sthurling were all the same watch company, just different lables smacked on the watches. Now I know I was wrong. brimsauce View Public Profile Send a private message to brimsauce Find all posts by brimsauce Add brimsauce to Your Contacts #77 06-22-2011, 12:17 PM

meijin

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 12,506 Real Name: Michael

Managing Director/Admin True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by brimsauce Until this happened, I thought Invicta, Renato, and Sthurling were all the same watch company, just different lables smacked on the watches. Now I know I was wrong. Why in the world would you think that? The companies do not have have never had anything to do with one another. __________________ Michael


Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!

meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin Add meijin to Your Contacts #78 06-22-2011, 12:50 PM

bwag829

Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: West Springfield, MA Posts: 3,151 Real Name: Bill

Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by brimsauce Until this happened, I thought Invicta, Renato, and Sthurling were all the same watch company, just different lables smacked on the watches. Now I know I was wrong. I always wondered if Coke really owns Pepsi bwag829 View Public Profile Send a private message to bwag829 Find all posts by bwag829 Add bwag829 to Your Contacts #79 06-22-2011, 02:37 PM

nolad Senior Geek

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Signal Hill, CA Posts: 413 Real Name: Watch-out-there-now


All righty then, since like you are all saying -- Bill Gates owns everything...Then I am on my way to KFC to order a Big Mac and Coke...LOL!!!

__________________ Nolad nolad View Public Profile Send a private message to nolad Find all posts by nolad Add nolad to Your Contacts #80 06-22-2011, 03:09 PM

watchfriend

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 119 Real Name: Michael

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by meijin Why in the world would you think that? The companies do not have have never had anything to do with one another. Almost makes you want to rethink the screening process to become a WG! lol __________________

watchfriend View Public Profile Send a private message to watchfriend


Send email to watchfriend Find all posts by watchfriend Add watchfriend to Your Contacts #81 06-23-2011, 09:58 AM Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: WV Posts: 88 Real Name: Dale Leoni

imcir Member Geek

Thanks for the info. imcir View Public Profile Send a private message to imcir Find all posts by imcir Add imcir to Your Contacts #82 06-24-2011, 05:51 PM Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: New York Posts: 46 Real Name: Rene

repedros Member Geek

Awesome repedros View Public Profile Send a private message to repedros Find all posts by repedros Add repedros to Your Contacts #83 06-24-2011, 05:59 PM

Faisal Anwar Veteran Geek

Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bridgeport CT Posts: 629


Real Name: Faisal Anwar

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .. sad to see renato go. Altho , I was never a big fan but still ... Well Good Luck Faisal Anwar View Public Profile Send a private message to Faisal Anwar Send email to Faisal Anwar Find all posts by Faisal Anwar Add Faisal Anwar to Your Contacts #84 06-24-2011, 06:28 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 2,517 Real Name: Paul

heavyjumbo Master WatchGeek

With all due respect, if I were Daniel I too would likely ask for the removal of my company from this forum after being criticized or my integrity otherwise challenged by the owner of the forum particularly where the forum was doing absolutely nothing to "police" the pure speculation that my company was going out of business or there was an impending bankruptcy when nothing could be further from the truth. I could go on and on and on...I'm just calling it like I see it. Dont kill me for it, just my opinion. __________________ Paul G. Boca Raton, FL heavyjumbo View Public Profile Send a private message to heavyjumbo Find all posts by heavyjumbo Add heavyjumbo to Your Contacts #85 06-24-2011, 07:27 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,990

watchluv Master WatchGeek


I still have my order for the tourbillion and will post it when it arrives. There was a part that had to made over and is almost ready to be assembled. I really wish it could have been worked out better. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #86 06-24-2011, 07:29 PM

timely1

Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Baltimore MD Posts: 2,216 Real Name: Joe

Super Geek

Everyone else seems to be giving their opinions here, so why not, I'll throw in my two cents too. IMO, Renato asked to be removed from Watchgeeks because they were getting a lot of negative publicity - yes a lot of speculation, but also factual info, such as with the Tourbillon delivery issues. I think they were trying to protect the company's reputation from getting damaged any further than it already had been. I'm sorry the Tourbillon problems came about, for those Geeks who ordered one. I will say that I got a Mostro 7750 and love it, even though "ready for immediate shipment" apparently meant shipment 6 business days after ordering. IMO, Renato has not always put the customer first with some of the decisions the company has made; but they do make a fine product. For any Geeks still awaiting the Tourbillon, I hope you get it soon and it blows your socks off when it arrives! __________________


timely1 View Public Profile Send a private message to timely1 Find all posts by timely1 Add timely1 to Your Contacts #87 Yesterday, 01:13 PM

strutn45 True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyjumbo my company was going out of business. I'm just calling it like I see it. Dont kill me for it, just my opinion. Won't be too much longer. Yeah, me too. __________________

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Da Swamp" LA. Posts: 13,138 Real Name: John "DID DAT"


strutn45 View Public Profile Send a private message to strutn45 Find all posts by strutn45 Add strutn45 to Your Contacts #88 Yesterday, 01:41 PM

watchcrazzedrookie Senior Geek

Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: OHIO,columbus for now Posts: 233 Real Name: richard,rick is cool too

thanks michael for the heads up,i for one was thru when daniel promised interchangeable straps would be on shop for months for the t rex. never saw them on shop but months later a few cheesy looking straps showed up on thier site. im sorry for all the geeks who were led down another sorry lane by daniel he has alot to learn about customer relations i personaly glad i wont have to pass by any more sorry posts about a farse of a company. watchcrazzedrookie View Public Profile Send a private message to watchcrazzedrookie Send email to watchcrazzedrookie Find all posts by watchcrazzedrookie Add watchcrazzedrookie to Your Contacts #89 Yesterday, 02:07 PM

watchfriend Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 119 Real Name: Michael


Wish we could at least "talk" about Renato here. If there's a great deal, we want to share. If there's a problem we also want to share. __________________

WG can and cannot say about renato  

Managing Director/Admin Concerning Renato Real Name: Michael So, here is what you can post concerning Renato: I am writing this so that ther...